We thought it would be good to show the audience we have had over the last few months, and to say thanks to all those who have helped to make this a thriving community in the short time we have been on the go.
A Happy New year to all from everyone at TSFM.
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The WordPress.com stats helper monkeys prepared a 2012 annual report for this blog.
Here’s an excerpt:
About 55,000 tourists visit Liechtenstein every year. This blog was viewed about 3,500,000 times in 2012. If it were Liechtenstein, it would take about 64 years for that many people to see it. Your blog had more visits than a small country in Europe!
neepheid says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 09:58
“But of course, at the end of this season, once promotion and relegation are sorted, …..”
======
Yes, we can remember the elasticity of the season /end of season that saw Dunfermline relegated and the then RFC remaining until eve of the Season 2012/13.
theoldshed says:
Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 23:01
on the legal debate about the existence of the club as separate entity from rangers Football Club (IL) there is an interesting Scottish Law Commission report (No 217) on Unincorporated Associations available on the Scottish Law Commission’s website:
http://www.scotlawcom.gov.uk/publications/reports/summary-table-of-all-reports/
========================================================================
Welcome theoldsshed and I enjoyed your first post.
You might find the interim report of LNS interesting on the continuing liabilitie of an SPL football club despite it having no legal peronality.
http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Commission%20reasons%20for%20decision%20of%2012%20September%202012.pdf
The LNS report opinion isn’t all encompassing on the subject of ‘legal personailty’ of football clubs but is designed to cover the situation which has presented with Rangers but nonetheless interesting and very readable and understandable even to the semi-literate like myself 🙂
Auldheid
I believe each club in the SPL will recieve circa £250,000 for player development due to Celtics progression to the last 16 of the CL. That’s a reasonable addition to the pot.
neepheid @ 10:29
Fair comment, although if we take what has been said already as true, then it will be decided on merit, and the only way that can be judged is on league placings at the end of the season, with SFL 2 clubs being ahead of SFL 3 clubs
For me, it is unthinkable that they would contemplate handing Sevco what would in effect be 2 promotions in a season
We need to see the detail, and soon
neepheid says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 09:58
————-
Obviously no one can be definitive about the future Neepheid, but I share the view expressed by Campsie Joe at 10.11. Milne and others are setting clear expectations here. If it subsequently emerged that one of the “top teams in Division Two” at the end of this season was a team currently in Division Three then there would be the mother of all reactions from supporters of all clubs. I’d be astonished if the Chairmen of the SPL clubs don’t realise that after last summer.
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:16
We’re singing off the same sheet and its not a comfortable place.
Taysider says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:49
==
So long as the authorities continue to leave themselves any wriggle room at all in their pronouncements, I will continue to be cynical regarding their motives. And will remain so until a clear and unequivocal statement is made by someone with the authority to make it, that no team currently in SFL3 will be included in the 24. I will be most surprised (but happy) if such a statement is ever made.
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:16
————-
Good post Auldheid. At a time when so many are hung up about the 12/12/18 I think that proposals that move towards a more more equitable split of the tv revenue are far more important here. If the 8/8/8 doesn’t work after two or three seasons, fine, it won’t be so hard to change it with one League body and a sensible voting structure.
The most critical issue for the product delivered by Scottish Football is a set up that delivers a greater level of competition, whether with a 10, 12, 14, 16 or 18 top tier. The changes made in income distribution will not radically change the landscape, certainly in the short term, but they will be a small step in the right direction after many the other way. Inter dependence must be a consideration if a league is to thrive and generate greater consumer interest.
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:39
theoldshed says:
Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 23:01
on the legal debate about the existence of the club as separate entity from rangers Football Club (IL) there is an interesting Scottish Law Commission report (No 217) on Unincorporated Associations available on the Scottish Law Commission’s website:
http://www.scotlawcom.gov.uk/publications/reports/summary-table-of-all-reports/
========================================================================
Welcome theoldsshed and I enjoyed your first post.
You might find the interim report of LNS interesting on the continuing liabilitie of an SPL football club despite it having no legal peronality.
http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Commission%20reasons%20for%20decision%20of%2012%20September%202012.pdf
The LNS report opinion isn’t all encompassing on the subject of ‘legal personailty’ of football clubs but is designed to cover the situation which has presented with Rangers but nonetheless interesting and very readable and understandable even to the semi-literate like myself
—————————————————————————————-
apart from me being simi-literate, i don’t have the time 9am at work) to read –
Scottish Law Commission report (No 217).
can any of the legal eagles give us a summary of this.
theoldshed Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 23:01
a brilliant find Sir! and a chapeau on you inaugural post! 😉
Will The Sevco Rangers be issuing a statement to their support in the coming weeks?
“Join all of us in celebrating 114 years since our INCORPORATION DAY on May 27th 1899”
I know I’ll be celebrating it………. 🙂
Are these two growing a pair?
Tom English @TomEnglishSport
In regard to Jim Traynor’s piece on Rangers’ website. I was the one who ridiculed Watty’s comedy bid. What are you going to do about it Jim?
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43m Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
@TomEnglishSport Tom, my Ibrox sources tell me you’re to be shot at dawn outside the Ibrox main door. Have you any last requests?
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25m Tom English @TomEnglishSport
@GrahamSpiers Penny Arcade at my funeral mass. And Bomber Brown to say a few words of remembrance
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20m Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
@TomEnglishSport I’ll fix that. I thought also maybe JT and ‘Leggo’ to say a few words from scripture. God, I’ll be weeping…
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13m Tom English @TomEnglishSport
@GrahamSpiers Leggo to do a reading from the Book of Conspiracy. ‘Lawwell’s to blame’
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2m Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
@TomEnglishSport Prior to JT shouting ‘fire!’ the anti-RFC conspirators should be cited: SPL, SFA, BBC, press, Interpol, Women’s Rural…
bawsman says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:40
I was aware of that but its hardly life changing money for SPL clubs. Obviously there has to be controls in place to ensure any extra income does not end up overpaying an average player, it could for example be used to meet non wage costs and ensure for example social taxes etc are paid.
Call it part insurance against the league disintegrating and part developing better players. The point is to have the debate from a collective angle and see what is reasonable from that perspective.
Here is another way of seeing things.
Evolution Soccer – Revolution Soccer.
“The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankley. Liverpool FC.
Football has experienced a curious phenomenon over the last ten years. Neither the fans nor the clubs can be considered the owners of the game. If we define ownership as the ability to dictate terms then it becomes self evident. The world’s best players and those who hang on to their coat tails now run the show and it filters down to the lower levels. These people are football’s new owners.
How has this happened for it would be impossible in normal business? It happened because the player’s paymasters, the support, set no price on their desire for glory and success. The paymasters have become the slaves of glory and football is paying the ultimate cost.
Along with the desire for glory at any price is the working man’s thinking that a player, like any working man, has the right to negotiate as high a reward for his labour as he can. As a left leaning Glaswegian who has had to strike for improved conditions in normal business, I subscribe to that notion and paid my dues to defend that right. However football is not like normal business. In normal business if a worker negotiates a wage that makes the company uncompetitive because the rise exceeds the income it will generate, that company will eventually go out of business. Thus a reality wage ceiling is in place. This is a good thing because it means the company can continue to offer employment to all its workers and continue to serve its customers.
However in recent football history the influx of TV and sugar daddy money has enabled a wage to be offered that goes way beyond the business’s ability to sustain, but unlike normal business, clubs do not, by and large, go out of business. They find ways of reforming and carry on, but at a cost to those players not in the top earning bracket, or to the workers in companies who served them. It has meant smaller squads, fewer players able to earn.
It is a curious socialist philosophy that supports a player’s right to get as much as he can from the game, but ignores the consequences for his fellow players/workers without whom there would be no game.
A good analogy is in order here. Modern football is like a description of a scene from hell where a visitor looks into one room and sees an emaciated group around a table on which is set a large pot full of stew. They cannot eat because their arms have been set straight at the elbow and elongated so that they cannot get a spoon in their mouths. It is a miserable place. Then the visitor goes upstairs and enters a similar room with occupants similarly handicapped, but where everyone is well fed and contented. “How can this be?” he asks his guide. “Well downstairs all their energies are spent in the nigh impossible task of feeding their insatiable hunger, whilst up here they simply feed each other.”
The thankless job of managing the downstairs room falls to the custodians of clubs, but their hands are tied by the players’ real paymasters, the support, demanding the custodians throw more food into the room, rather than teach the occupants the benefit of feeding each other for the good of all.
Not all players and agents are greedy men, John Kennedy’s magnificent gesture to give his testimonial money to famine relief is a demonstration of this, and there are other players who also carry out charitable acts. However, overall, it is players who exploit the support using the support’s desire for success to demand from custodians wages that starve lower reaches of the game. There is more than enough finance to satisfy both players and supporters needs, it just needs to be distributed more equitably.
Hopefully this phenomenon will end when the unconscious paymasters – the support, who should be the owners, waken up and realise that they are being exploited, not by the custodians of clubs, but by their fellow workers the players. When this realisation finally dawns about who currently owns football a consensual wage ceiling might emerge to allow football to again become the people’s game. There is no natural ceiling to ensure wealth generation is preserved or that the wealth created is more fairly distributed. One must be created.
At some point the age old class struggle of exploited worker versus owner will be repeated, except the battle will be between a more aware and responsible support and the new owners of soccer, the players.
These are not to be confused with the players of the past, fellow workers of their time exploited by then club owners. Players like Bobby Evans, Willie Fernie, Jimmy Johnstone, Bobby Murdoch etc. These guys and their fellow professionals were working men all their playing lives.
Those days, however, have gone.
sorry forgot!
Happy New Year one and all!
Plenty more fightin’ to be done semi-literate-bampots! Arms at the ready! Hold…… Hold……
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:20
Although I mentioned his name this morning, can we just use The TRFC spokesperson from now on. We should banish his name from this blog.
======================================================================
I understand the reasoning but Tbh it is better to have a right go at Traynor – he’ll be on here and other sites checking what’s been said or having flunkies do it. If you just use the term ‘spokesperson’ and repeat the message then he’ll be getting a bonus.
Better to keep it nice and personal showing what a clown he is and by association discrediting the ‘message’. That will p*ss his employer off and infuriate Traynor who will respond by lashing out even more wildly and giving us semi-literates more ammunition.
He acted like Gawd at the Record where a weak editor was unable to control him – the dynamics have changed and I genuinely doubt that he is up to the job on a number of fronts. His initial statement was welcomed enthusiastically on the Darkside and blood demanded re the two journos he identified for ‘treatment’.
The mob will expect strong action against them and soon – interestingly the hordes haven’t mentioned English calling Traynor out by admitting he is Spartacus. But if Traynor doesn’t act then his bloated ego will have been pricked and he’ll slowly collapse and end-up a discarded paper tiger.
But there is a place in history for him wherever journalism is taught and I would love to see lecturers – especially those who embrace the new media – explaining to future students how the dinosaurs of print media finally died out after their attempt to adapt to PR provided only a fleeting cul-de-sac refuge on the slide to oblivion.
I can guarantee that sub-editors everywhere today, especially those who know him, will be reading his words from yesterday and forming their own views but no doubt looking forward to future outpourings from the new PR Maestro. There are no greater nor more skilled critics of a journo’s writing skills than the guys and gals, who don’t get a byline, but who day and daily have to toil with pigs’ ears.
As a final comment – I wonder how the bearettes take to Traynor describing females as ‘broads’ in his rant?
with regards to the proposed 12-12-18 new structure for the leagues, I’ve now read a lot about the 12-12 becoming 8-8-8 and who’ll be palying for what within each mini-league but I don’t recall seeing anything at all about the league of 18 that’s left.
What is the plan for them, are they just cast adrift playing each other once at home and away giving them 34 games a season? It seems like a bit of an after thought.
“oh this is the plan for the top leagues to make it more exciting, get the fans ccoming back, get more tv money, yadda yadda, yadda”
“What about the bottom league?”
“eh, um eh, well they can just have a big league of 18 even though we claim a big league can’t work for the top teams and there’ll be too many meaningless games and no-one would be interested, cos lets face it we’re talking about the worst teams in Scotland and no-one really cares about them”
Is that how the current discussions have been going (ignoring any separate debate about Sevco FC)?
First of all some context. The World, UK and Scottish economies are struggling. The paying customer in Scottish Football has less money in his pocket to spend on her/his club. The travails of clubs like Rangers, Hearts, Killie, Dunfermline etc. are not causing such problems in the Scottish game, but instead are symptoms of the more general economic woes. I guess many clubs had/have business models that require a rolling finance facility. In many cases such a facility will have been withdrawn and, as we all know, even where this isn’t the case, the finance now costs more than it did a few years ago. With this in mind, I can see why the administrators of the game are seeking to re-organise.
No plan will be purely commercially driven (such as a proposal that says, ‘the structure that makes the already better off clubs keep the commercial booty’ or such), but no plan will be purely driven by sporting considerations, since chairmen of the SPL clubs and very many SFL clubs need to . I wouldn’t mind a set up on purely competitive imperative, because I think the crowds will turn up to see a contest, not an arranged match. I refer the reader to one of the most well known boxing match-ups of the 1900s – it was not arranged or set up for commercial reasons, but instead was for sporting reasons. It still managed to attract the biggest crowd in those parts for generations. That was the now famous fight between Squire Will Dannagher and Sean Thornton in Innisfree. 🙂
If the football proposals tend towards the commercially driven, fans won’t have it. It won’t be worth chasing a few extra pounds if it turns off a fair chunk of the fanbase across the board. Has anyone mentioned a mechanism for asking the fans? I mean, a formal method of obtaining fans views in a fashion that is above board and not managed by those who might be conflicted?
Whilst I see the need to get on with it, it seems plainly and simply unjust for clubs this season – more than halfway through – to learn what they might be playing for now regarding the set-up next season (2013/14). Its worth giving a change the hurry up, but why such a hurry up? Any implemented plan should take effect from the following season, to allow clubs to decide on and adopt a strategy.
Reports have emerged of the proposals…
“
•SPL proposal is for a 12-12-18 structure
•Top two leagues to split into three leagues of eight after 22 matches then play a further seven home and seven away games
•Leagues will be called Premier Division, Championship and National League
•Top eight teams to play for title and European places; middle eight to contest promotion and relegation in and out of Premier Division; bottom eight to decide who drops into National League
•11 out of 12 SPL clubs need to vote in favour of plans, while the proposal requires approval of 23 out of 30 SFL clubs
•One league body to replace SPL and SFL “
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20941213 )
My first question is why, if we want to go three leagues, aren’t we looking at simply 14-14-14? Or another readily divisible multiple like, say, 7 sections of 6 with 1 up-1 down at the end of each round of homes and aways? And, given that the middle eight could finish in the order they begin the season, would this not mean effectively no relegation from the top 12 that begun the season?
I also wonder if this reportage is jumping well ahead of itself, seeing as approval is needed by the numbers mentioned (11 SPL and 23 SFL clubs), but only 15 clubs met to discuss the proposal. This doesn’t sound like unanimous buy-in to the process at this stage.
I agree that we don’t need 3 governing bodies though.
I see Lawwell has announced Pre Conference at 3 this afternoon.
KDS speculation is it’s a new shirt sponsor separate from Sevco – Magners being mentioned.
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 11:34
Rumours rife the new joint sponsors are HMRC & RTC, don’t go spreading this now 😉
“Rangers will return to the top flight, …… despite the latest insult of being shut out of reconstruction talks”…
_____________________________________..
There’s the rub!
Serco have been shut out of reconstruction talks, there is no obstacles now to them being fast-forwarded……. they won’t be able to make a baws of it.
Seriously this is Armageddon time. They talk of, maybe 2013/14 season for introduction. This is an impossibility. Much like restructuring your army whilst in the mist of a major battle.
Unfortunately no matter how good an idea emanates from Hampden it will be a non-runner and totally mistrusted until these lactchicoes are ousted..
gie’s a gonk says:
Interesting to watch the media’s epiphany regarding the needs of the fans and the smaller clubs. It was not that long ago Celtic and Rangers were adamant that the top league should be 10 and the so called SPL 2 should also be 10. As for the other half of Scottish football no-one even mentioned them. In the last week I’ve heard Chic and Keef bemoan the lack of competition in the SPL and in the 2nd and 3rd divisions, can’t remember a significant comment on ‘competition’ when Rangers won 9iar? can’t remember them giving a seconds thought to the lower leagues….ever!
IMO Traynor’s appointment will be a disaster. Green has thus far, targeted the administrative apparatus (and Dundee United), even he realised that targeting Celtic would be beyond the pale, and could set in motion a chain of events that could lead to serious public disorder, that would benefit no-one. Traynor, having been a journalist in Scottish football for the best part of 4 decades should bring this experience to the table and ensure a more dextrous approach to what is a minefield for us all……..instead he appears emboldened by Green’s scatter gun approach regarding the blame game, and crucially for the first time deliberately takes aim at Celtic. Irresponsible populism of the first order, , it will end in tears…………Best stop here and watch what I’m saying, the self styled ‘big, bad wolf’ might be reading this!
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 11:07
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bawsman says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:40
————————————————————————————————————
Great post as usual sir.
Is it not ironic that in the home of capitalism they have a ‘draft’ system to share out the goodies in the NFL?
My hope is that Platini has the clout to force through the reforms to ‘level the field’
I will forever remember standing at Old Trafford watching Ben Hutchison (17) and Cillian Sheridan (18) come on for a solvent Celtic as we capitulated to a side near £900 Million in debt but boasting a subs bench worth north of £100 Mill.
I stopped going to matches for a while after that, I felt my money would be better spent elsewhere rather than tilt the field even more.
Little did we know things were much more rotten closer to home.
Thanks again for your response, I enjoy and encourage your work.
I note that Sevco 5088 has submitted a notice to Companies House to have the company dissolved and struck off the register.
It would suggest that there are no RIFC related assets left in the company, unless there is something else that is being covered up by the dissolution.
reconstruction –
if proxyrangers were to start next season in the 18 (2013) and win.
2014 they will “start” in the “spl2”
2014-if they are in 1,2,3,4 spot at the “split”, they will fall into the 2nd group of 8, to fight for promotion to spl 1?
so, by 2015, they could start in spl 1.
so, it is to fast track proxyrangers – or at least facilitate – the fast track.
obviously they will have no debt and lots of cash in the bank (metro) to pay for the better players to get them into spl1 by 2015.
Amidst the comments and complaints re a proposed 12-12-18 league reconstruction plan, I’ve yet to see anyone outline the attraction for the vast majority of the bottom 18.
Given 75% of clubs have to support a new structure, why would those teams in the lowest two leagues (apart from a few) want to be stuck in a graveyard which they have near zero prospects of escaping?
The majority of the present bottom ten clubs have played in a higher league in recent times, and the prospect of promotion via play-offs this season exists for, in real terms, 8 of the ten at this point. In the third tier, while QoS appear to have the title sewn up, second bottom Stranraer are only 8 points off a promotion play-off position. Almost all clubs in the present bottom 18 have some reward (or set back) in prospect when the season closes.
Moving to the 12-12-18 scenario, few of the bottom 18 clubs will see an improvement in competition: stagnation is the likely prospect for the majority.
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:12
On another note, watching the flag riot footage from Belfast it is scary the amount of Rangers scarves which are being worn by rioters, usually to disguise their identity
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Problem solved.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAICPbsCQAAhsrR.jpg:large
If it is a shirt sponsorship deal with Magners, then it may be a clever way of distancing themselves from Rangers/Tennants.
Tennants and Magners are owned by the same company, C&C Group plc.
jonnyod says:
Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 19:49
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wjohnston1
I would caution against any so called anger at the plans coming out of Ibrokes ,they will be telling us they are against being fast tracked next oh wait
—————————————————————–
Yes, just like they were happy to go to the 3rd Division yet continue to howl and wail about this terrible “punishment”
i think you give Traynor too much discussion time, he is irrelevant.
FWIW I think the actual structure of the proposed reconstruction is a significant improvement. It provides a dramatic end to the first half of the season with clubs scrabbling either for a shot at getting into the play-off 8 or avoiding it. It gives a new lease of life to the whole relegation/promotion angle.
If four teams go down from the third 8 and a play off for the fourth place between the clubs fourth to seventh is introduced it should keep interest up in the national league. It needs a pyramid underneath and automatic relegation/promotion from lower down but it is a workable and reasonable model.
The top 8 have a fair league of 36 games with each club playing the other four times – unlike now.
The question to be asked though, is why now? ( answer – a smokescreen to hide the LNS enquiry and to give the impression that the present incumbents are taking the game “forward” )
I do not believe any room has or will be made for T’Rangers – hence the vile JT diatribe! The clubs have learned a lesson and know that if T’Rangers appear in the second twelve next season then the fans will leave en masse. Hence the anger in Mr Traynor – he knows that the clubs are “listening” still and will have no truck with the acceleration of his ersatz bunch through the leagues.
This reconstruction is actually a reasonable idea – and it should have been thrown out to discussion, and involved the setting up of a regional pyramid structure of Senior and Junior clubs over next two seasons to feed into the new set-up later.
Basically the timeline should have been – Setting up a regional lower league set up in season 2014-15 with a view to this set-up being brought into place with the pyramid in 2015-16.
That way no conspiracy theories or suspicions of skullduggery would or could have been raised and the proposal could have been debated on its merits and not as some kind of dodge or scam to promote the chosen ones.
It is the lack of trust which renders all of our discussions on these matters, as on any matters in Scottish football at present, embittered. The powers that be are not to be trusted: even a sensible and worthwhile reconstruction proposal cannot be discussed in the present climate.
We need to see the individuals who created the five way agreement all removed from post, a re structuring of the governance of the game with a single governing body much more directly accountable to member clubs put in place, and the conclusion of all actions and consequences thereof of Rangers ( which should have been dealt with before the end of last season) to be completed before embarking upon any reconstruction.
I like the plan – but the timing, and the individuals bringing it forward suck big time.
Dick Byrne @DickByrne1
Sevco media guru James Traynor has announced plans to sue ex-Record hack James Traynor for an article in which he claimed Rangers were dead
Retweeted by Phil MacGiollaBhain
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 12:34
3 0 Rate This
Problem solved.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAICPbsCQAAhsrR.jpg:large
———-
Hilarious 🙂
How many clubs will not meet the criteria for playing in the top divivsions ie undersoil, capacity etc.
Just you watch them move the goalposts to get you know who in !!!
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 12:34
4 0 Rate This
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 10:12
On another note, watching the flag riot footage from Belfast it is scary the amount of Rangers scarves which are being worn by rioters, usually to disguise their identity
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Problem solved.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAICPbsCQAAhsrR.jpg:large
================================================
It’s an awful pity Sammy Duddy’s chihuahua isn’t still alive, it would have looked lovely in them glasses.
Jim Larkin
reconstruction –
if proxyrangers were to start next season in the 18 (2013) and win.
2014 they will “start” in the “spl2″
2014-if they are in 1,2,3,4 spot at the “split”, they will fall into the 2nd group of 8, to fight for promotion to spl 1?
So, by 2015, they could start in spl 1.
_______________________
As they could anyway by winning sfl3 this year, 2 next and 1 the year after. It does not of itself promote them faster
The only real “acceleration” in the process is that it would probably be easier for T’Rangers to exit SPL2 than the present SFL 1.Indeed, the set up in place at Ibrox, and the need to recoup “investments” made in SEVCO means – I reckon – that if and when T’Rangers reach the top tier they may well struggle to make the top 8 consistently, if they are run as a club that lives within its means and has investors to pay off – and find themselves bereft of two of the four Celtic games even then.
paulsatim says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 13:03
Dick Byrne @DickByrne1
Sevco media guru James Traynor has announced plans to sue ex-Record hack James Traynor for an article in which he claimed Rangers were dead
========================================================================
This is the funniest I’ve seen in a while – brilliant! I suppose if there can be 2 RFC*s, there can be 2 JTs, huh?
jimlarkin says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 12:27
7 1 Rate This
reconstruction –
if proxyrangers were to start next season in the 18 (2013) and win.
2014 they will “start” in the “spl2″
2014-if they are in 1,2,3,4 spot at the “split”, they will fall into the 2nd group of 8, to fight for promotion to spl 1?
so, by 2015, they could start in spl 1.
so, it is to fast track proxyrangers – or at least facilitate – the fast track.
obviously they will have no debt and lots of cash in the bank (metro) to pay for the better players to get them into spl1 by 2015.
===================
Would that not be season 2015-2016 which would be the same as current:
Win Div 3 then in Div 2 in season 2013-2014
Win Div 2 then in Div 1 in season 2014-2015
Win Div 1 then in SPL in season 2015-2016
reconstruction –
if proxyrangers were to start next season in the 18 (2013) and win.
2014 they will “start” in the “spl2″
2014-if they are in 1,2,3,4 spot at the “split”, they will fall into the 2nd group of 8, to fight for promotion to spl 1?
so, by 2015, they could start in spl 1.
so, it is to fast track proxyrangers – or at least facilitate – the fast track.
obviously they will have no debt and lots of cash in the bank (metro) to pay for the better players to get them into spl1 by 2015.
************
Am I missing something? Apart from the fact that promotion from ‘2nd 12’ to ‘1st 12′ will be easier because of playoff for top-4 I see:
Now:
end season 2012/2013 –> Promotion to SFL2
end season 2013/2014 –> Promotion to SFL1
end season 2014/2015–> Promotion to SPL
Reconstruction:
end season 2012/2013 –> Place in ’18’
end season 2013/2014 –> Place in 2nd ’12’
end season 2014/2015 –> Place in 1st ’12’
Let’s just remind ourselves:
1. Mr James Traynor:
“In a BBC radio debate last Saturday night, one pundit, in a matter-of-fact manner, said [chief executive] Charles Green speaks with ‘forked tongue.’ No attempt to explain or justify the statement, just as no explanation was offered when another radio voice claimed there was a dishonesty about Walter Smith when he went public with a late bid for the club.
“Word of advice gentlemen. From now on be very careful when talking or writing about this club.
“To paraphrase something said about another club, Rangers will not be treated less than others. And although there is no desire to pick fights, be assured that no one will attack Rangers with impunity.”
2. Mr Thomas English:
Tom English @TomEnglishSport
In regard to Jim Traynor’s piece on Rangers’ website. I was the one who ridiculed Watty’s comedy bid. What are you going to do about it Jim?
3. …?
Over to you, Mr James Traynor.
🙂
This came from Tom English’s Twitter:
Richard Wilson @Richwilsport
@TomEnglishSport @chrisgraham76 it was more complicated than that, Tom, there was a lot going on behind the scenes at that time
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
17h Tom English @TomEnglishSport
@Richwilsport @ChrisGraham76 If Walter and chums wanted to buy the club they would have made their move earlier.
Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite
11:47 AM – 8 Jan 13 · Details
17h Richard Wilson @Richwilsport
@TomEnglishSport @chrisgraham76 they did
Richard Wilson, a journalist, pipes up to defend Walter Smiths pathetic excuse for a takeover bid. Wilson says there was a lot more going on behind the scenes and that Smith DID in fact act earlier.
My point is, why did he not report what he supposedly knows? A journalist with what appears to be exclusive information, on an issue that would certainly interest the public, says nothing at all until he decides to use this supposed inside knowledge to defend Walter Smith over a comment on Twitter? Is it just me who thinks this would be odd anywhere other than Scottish Football?
tibfkaelc says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 13:21
reconstruction –
if proxyrangers were to start next season in the 18 (2013) and win.
2014 they will “start” in the “spl2″
2014-if they are in 1,2,3,4 spot at the “split”, they will fall into the 2nd group of 8, to fight for promotion to spl 1?
so, by 2015, they could start in spl 1.
so, it is to fast track proxyrangers – or at least facilitate – the fast track.
obviously they will have no debt and lots of cash in the bank (metro) to pay for the better players to get them into spl1 by 2015.
************
Am I missing something? Apart from the fact that promotion from ’2nd 12′ to ’1st 12′ will be easier because of playoff for top-4 I see:
Now:
end season 2012/2013 –> Promotion to SFL2
end season 2013/2014 –> Promotion to SFL1
end season 2014/2015–> Promotion to SPL
Reconstruction:
end season 2012/2013 –> Place in ’18′
end season 2013/2014 –> Place in 2nd ’12′
end season 2014/2015 –> Place in 1st ’12′
===============================================================
Correct. They gain no advantage as the plans currently stand.
However, they are a resourceful lot and they have come up with a brand new beef and are railing against the apparent unfairness arising from them winning SFL3 and being the first team ever not to be promoted. I can’t understand their problem because I thought they were right into setting records these days.
From Accountancy Live website. Apologies if posted previously:
BDO in £25m claim against Rangers’ former owner
09/01/13
Chris Warmoll
BDO’ s insolvency arm, currently embroiled in the winding up of RFC 2012 PLC, the ‘new’ Rangers Football Club PLC, is taking civil action against law firm, Collyer Bristow.
Administrator Duff and Phelps, the outfit used to run the oldco, originally began the action, which centres on claims that ex-owner Craig Whyte and his lawyer Gary Withey, who worked for Collyer Bristow, had ‘deceived’ board members about the doomed 2011 takeover.
BDO has today confirmed the action, which was raised at Royal Courts of Justice.
BDO is also involved in a counter-claim against Merchant Turnaround, a firm in which Whyte boasts a significant shareholding, through his British Virgin Islands-based Liberty Capital Ltd.
The Ibrox-based club collapsed into administration with debts of up to £124m last year.
In 2011, Whyte purchased an 85% shareholding in Rangers for £1 from Sir David Murray.
As has been suggested by an earlier post:
TRFC win SFL3 in season 2012/13.
They are promoted to SFL2, prior to the new league set-up (i.e. before August 2013).
Normal relegation and promotion between SFL1 and SFL2 at the end of season 2012/13. This still leaves SFL1 with 10 teams prior to the new league set-up (i.e. before August 2013).
During the summer, two teams (TRFC plus one other) are invited from SFL2 to join the “Championship” to ensure a league of 12 in time for 2013/14.
TRFC finish top of the Championship after first round of 22 games. They go into the league of 8 that battle for promotion to the Premiership.
They are promoted to the Premiership in time for 2014/15.
CURRENT SET-UP: TRFC first season in top tier is 2015/16.
NEW SET UP: TRFC first season in top tier is 2014/15.
Has it absolutely, categorically been stated in black and white that every team in the current SFL3 will be in the league of 18 in 2013/14?
All I have seen is a comment that the new set up “should not accelerate the promotion of any one club”. “Should” being the operative word.
Were TRFC not already accelerated once before by being allowed into SFL3?
Call me a cynic……
No reconstruction …… need to win SFL3, 2 and 1 to reach SPL.
Does reconstruction mean that they can be less successful and still reach SPL?
ordinaryfan says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 13:40
Saw that twitter exchange and thought Wilson’s contribution was suspect.
Why not mention it at the time?
Duff & Duffer certainly didn’t and if it was circa £6m then it topped Mr Charles by £0.5m
Creditors stiffed once again?
As for the league reconstruction – I await to see what the actual members vote, and more importantly when they vote it in for. It is impossible not to feel that the unseemly haste with which some are bent on pursuing this apparently single “silver bullet” solution to Scottish football’s myriad problems is driven by the desire to have Scotland’s “showcase” game return asap.
If The Renegers win the Scottish 3rd as the are of course expected to by a country mile who is to say they won’t press for the unique situation to mean jumping a division and starting in the new Division2 – this will mean that, if they are in the top8 of that division they will be playing OldSPL teams within a year and back to playing Celtic in the league in 2yrs. That is assuming the – what is it that rises to the top of water? – rises to the top of the pool in the shortest period. That’ll help the negotiations for the TV contract won’t it?
Even if that’s not the case then NewGers will still have shaved a full year off their entry (not return) to the top division.
The grim realisation the gerrymandering actions that would provoke outrage anywhere else, but is a fait accompli in Scotland is just another nail in the fitbaw coffin for me… sigh
Don’t even discuss reconstruction. There is only one reason behind it. Is it not as plain as the nose on your face? The mirrors might be more expensive than heretofore and the smoke is of the rainbow variety, but the intention is still the same.
I am blue, sorry, pink in the face repeating myself – which clubs are breaking down the walls to have reconstruction? answer, none. The only ones pushing the scam are the very people who promised – sorry, threatened Armageddon. Now they come up with this scam – have we aged that much in the meantime?..
jockybhoy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 13:48
BDO in £25m claim against Rangers’ former owner
BDO has today confirmed the action, which was raised at Royal Courts of Justice.
BDO is also involved in a counter-claim against Merchant Turnaround, a firm in which Whyte boasts a significant shareholding, through his British Virgin Islands-based Liberty Capital Ltd.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
If I was an individual with “off the radar” wealth who had invested some of it in recording technology good enough to capture a clandestine meeting with Mr Grier then maybe, just maybe I’d have a bunch of other indiscreet recordings too.
From other people involved in my wee Phoenix project.
Maybe the recordings were made to stop me becoming the Patsy.
Maybe the meeting in Switzerland alluded to by Corsica in June will soon be on the airwaves courtesy of the outfall of this routine BDO investigation.
Sevco have announced a PR event for 2.59 to introduce Guiness as their new shirt sponsors, well they do hold the world record for holding world records.
I’ll get ma pint glass.
Ultimately any recon will require a thumping majority of clubs to vote it through, that will not happen if it is a fast track ticket to tRFC,, clubs have already demonstrated with said thumping majority they will not be bullied or intimidated by anyone. They know it would be commercial suicide to fast track. The ‘agreement in principle’ was yesterday, (with some devilish detail to be addressed) clubs must now digest the proposals and then communicate with their fans or their fans will communicate with them……..not for the first time in the last year! 😉
from the BBC web site.
“TRANSFER LATEST
Goalkeeper Mathew Ryan is expected to join Rangers on trial early next week after injury delayed his arrival in Glasgow. The Australian was prevented from travelling to Scotland for a 10-day spell this week due to a shoulder problem.
The 20-year-old Central Coast Mariners keeper sustained the injury while playing against Western Sydney Wanderers in the A-League on Sunday”.
Can TRFC sign “trialists” during a transfer ban?
Do journalists not research anything anymore?
oops, do posters not read anything properly anymore?
Just noticed the BBC did say a 10 day spell.
Ignore my latest rant
It seems that Turnbull Hutton has now accepted the SPL’s shilling and supports the new league set up.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/raith-rovers/209079-turnbull-hutton-backs-reconstruction-plans-as-great-for-sfl-clubs/
I fear that attendences at the top tier will resume their downward trend next season. The basic problem of overpriced games, for a poor quality product in a league with only one possible winner remains. It is not a new thing as it has it’s roots in the spending spree that RFC started in 86/87 and the decline that started for most clubs in the mid 90s once the realism set in that the league title was unattainable for anyone other than RFC or CFC.
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 15:25
0
0
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It seems that Turnbull Hutton has now accepted the SPL’s shilling and supports the new league set up.
————————————————————————————————————–
Even the venerable Turnbull is having his motives questioned?
Could it not be that some of the proposals are beneficial to his club’s situations, rather than part of the Sevco carve up?
RM pointing out that Magners and Tennents are owned by the same company.
“Wonder if we”ll get Olde English or Blackthorn?
Hopefully not Gaymers”
http://www.candcgroupplc.com/brands
I guess they didn’t see “Special VAT” at the bottom!
wottpi says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 13:55
11 0 i
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ordinaryfan says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 13:40
Saw that twitter exchange and thought Wilson’s contribution was suspect.
Why not mention it at the time?
Duff & Duffer certainly didn’t and if it was circa £6m then it topped Mr Charles by £0.5m
Creditors stiffed once again?
~~~~~~~~~~~
Wilson is of course a self confessed bluenose and one assumes he would have had knowledge of potential bids which he didn’t make public. Smith’s appears to fit into that category if his twitter comments are to be believed. He kept quiet for some reason other than carrying out his professional duties as a journalist. Return a favour/seeking to ingratiate himself etc – who knows ?
This behaviour takes us to the heart of the RTC blog ie MSM not asking difficult questions or knowing facts but deciding to keep them away from the public glare. To think he’s the only one who did/does so is naive. Does nothing to rebuild confidence in the press in this country and reinforces the need for this and other similar blogs to remain vigilant.
chancer67 says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 14:11
Sevco have announced a PR event for 2.59 to introduce Guiness as their new shirt sponsors, well they do hold the world record for holding world records.
I’ll get ma pint glass
—————————————————————————
i thought you were going to say something like –
Sevco have announced a PR event for 2.59 to introduce Guiness as their new shirt sponsors
. . . as long as they change the Harp
to
a
“fiddle”
[as in – accounts]
Sky Sports News @SkySportsNews
Chief executive Charles Green will urge Rangers board to seek route out of Scottish football if restructuring of league goes ahead #SSN
Retweeted by Electronic Tims
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
Gers Should Quit Scotland
Written by Lindsay Herron
Gers Should Quit Scotland
CHARLES GREEN will recommend to the Board that Rangers try to find an escape route from Scottish football if the 12-12-18 reconstruction plans are pushed through.
The Chief Executive knows that in the current political climate it is difficult to play anywhere else, but he firmly believes that Rangers should explore all options as he is firmly against the proposals being hurried through.
In an exclusive interview with RangersTV, Green pulls no punches as he criticises a set-up which he feels most supporters don’t want.
He says the new set-up will render the remainder of the season meaningless and he insists it is only cash that is driving the adoption of the plan.
He said: “If this does happen what is the point of us finishing the season? Why should we send players out to get broken noses – like Ross Perry last week – or have players getting surgery when no-one can get promoted and no-one can get relegated.
“We might as well have a winter break now til next August. I can’t see any point in carrying on with meaningless matches.
“In what league do you win a division and then end up playing the same teams again the following season? There is no meaning to it, in reality.
“I haven’t read anything other than what is in the press and if that is what we have sat here eagerly awaiting to transform Scottish football, my advice to the board of Rangers is the quicker we can leave Scottish football the better.
“I can’t see anything that is going to transform the finances, the status or the excitement.”
Green knows that there is resistance by the European and World authorities to clubs playing in other countries, but there is strong feeling for a ‘Beneliga’ involving the top 12 teams in Holland the top eight in Belgium.
And Standard Liege have threatened to try to join Ligue 1 in France if permission for the Beneliga is not granted.
Green added: “On first glance, of course, there is nowhere for us to go because FIFA have made their feelings known on cross-border leagues.
“However, we have noted the comments of Standard Liege recently and what Peter Lawwell said at his AGM a few weeks ago when he discussed the changes in Europe.
“Hand on heart today there isn’t an option but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t start looking for an option.
“If all we have to look forward to over the next four years is more madness then we would be failing as directors not to explore the alternatives.”
thereek at 15.42:
Wilson is of course a self confessed bluenose and one assumes he would have had knowledge of potential bids which he didn’t make public. Smith’s appears to fit into that category if his twitter comments are to be believed. He kept quiet for some reason other than carrying out his professional duties as a journalist. Return a favour/seeking to ingratiate himself etc – who knows?
This behaviour takes us to the heart of the RTC blog ie MSM not asking difficult questions or knowing facts but deciding to keep them away from the public glare. To think he’s the only one who did/does so is naive. Does nothing to rebuild confidence in the press in this country and reinforces the need for this and other similar blogs to remain vigilant.
_________________________
In Scotland we are cursed by a breed of football journalist who thinks his first duty is to his team and/or pals (players and managers) rather than the readers. The reason they get angry over internet bloggers is because we expose their cravenness, subservience and lack of ethics and professionalism. Wilson appears to be admitting he kept important developments during the Rangers takeover fiasco a secret from Herald readers.
Fellow bampots: Semper Vigilo.
Robert Coyle says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 16:37
Sky Sports News @SkySportsNews
Chief executive Charles Green will urge Rangers board to seek route out of Scottish football if restructuring of league goes ahead #SSN
Retweeted by Electronic Tims
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
==========================
[Assuming Sky quote is correct.]
The CEO of TRFC issuing more blatant threats – this time against all senior Scottish football clubs and administrations.
Does anyone at SFA/SPL/SFL care ?
StevieBC says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 16:43
1 0 Rate This
======
Anyone have a large furniture van to help him with his move?
Robert Coyle says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 16:37
0 0 Rate This
Sky Sports News @SkySportsNews
Chief executive Charles Green will urge Rangers board to seek route out of Scottish football if restructuring of league goes ahead #SSN
………………..
But didn’t Charles Green say long before now that he was looking at ways to get Sevco out of Scottish Football?
Personally I think that reconstruction will be beneficial for Sevco. I think that the nonsense spouted by Green and Traynor is nothing but a smoke screen. They want this to go through, they just want to manipulate other Clubs supporters into believing they are against it, to convince them that it is not beneficial to them and make it more palatable to supporters who have demanded no fast tracking..
I believe that their MAIN OBJECTIVE is to get Longmuir, or another “Established Brother” to head the new set up. That is their main goal, from there they will once again dominate the corridors of power for many more years.
Re Chuckie to seek route out of Scottish football if restructure goes ahead,I will donate a SAT NAV to help ,anymore offers.
Any time you and your ragtag army want to quit Scottish football Charles, just leave your (associate) membership at the Hampden reception desk, there’s a good lad.
Be sure to let us know how your next big adventure goes.
i reckon chuckies main gripe could be an 18 team league would only provide them with 17 home games and would make it difficult to drive up season tickets if there is 1 less home game, plus playing the same teams again wont help with some fans.
i do believe it will beneficial for them in the long run though. i dont trust these jokers running or should that be ruining scottish football.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 16:40
Green knows that there is resistance by the European and World authorities to clubs playing in other countries, but there is strong feeling for a ‘Beneliga’ involving the top 12 teams in Holland the top eight in Belgium.
And Standard Liege have threatened to try to join Ligue 1 in France if permission for the Beneliga is not granted.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Perhaps Herron should have paid more attention to the comments concerning these “threats” from Standard Liege…it would appear there’s more opposition to the Beneliga idea than he thinks – or he patently doesn’t understand French.
http://www.rtbf.be/sport/football/belgique/jupilerproleague/detail_duchatelet-le-standard-en-beneliga-ou-en-ligue-1?id=7898333
Charlie Verde spouts – commenting on league restructuring proposals:
“I haven’t read anything other than what is in the press and if that is what we have sat here eagerly awaiting to transform Scottish football, my advice to the board of Rangers is the quicker we can leave Scottish football the better.”
For once I wholehearedly agree with him but why stop at merely leaving Scottish football? Why not go the whole hog and shoot for the stars – back to whatever planet he came from and take Sevco with him.
could someone be playing a blinder here, that if we resort to 10 teams in a year or two, we might have the season when sevco are in spl 2 there would be 2 teams relegated from the top league and no promotion and sevco could be a victim all over again.
world record victims.
I presume Eggs Benedict and Magners Cider are both off the menu at Ibrokes and other similar hostelries of the Sevconian persuasion.
milne has always wanted a 10 team league, maybe this is way of getting what he wants by default.
hope sevco boycott us. 😀
At last, something from Chuckles we can agree with.
Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out you odious turd.
Anyone else think Sevco might be in a bit of financial bother down the line?
finloch says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 14:07
If I was an individual with “off the radar” wealth who had invested some of it in recording technology good enough to capture a clandestine meeting with Mr Grier then maybe, just maybe I’d have a bunch of other indiscreet recordings too.
From other people involved in my wee Phoenix project.
Maybe the recordings were made to stop me becoming the Patsy.
Maybe the meeting in Switzerland alluded to by Corsica in June will soon be on the airwaves courtesy of the outfall of this routine BDO investigation.
——————————————————————————————————————————
That would be some recording. Best put it up on iTunes…might as well get residuals out of it after the big fat Exclusive First UK Use cheque.
Remind me of the date and cast list, finloch.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11781/8387725
can someone give jim traynor spartans fc’s phone number and tell them to tool up…they may get their rightfull place in sfl3 after all.
also
is the jim traynor (the sevco franchise) that is suing jim traynor (ex-daily retard)
is jim traynor suing jim traynor to prove that jim traynor did not die.
jim traynor v the jim traynor. the winner gets the jim traynor history
———————————————————————————————————————–
ordinaryfan says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 16:54
13 0 Rate This
Robert Coyle says:
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 at 16:37
0 0 Rate This
Sky Sports News @SkySportsNews
Chief executive Charles Green will urge Rangers board to seek route out of Scottish football if restructuring of league goes ahead #SSN
………………..
But didn’t Charles Green say long before now that he was looking at ways to get Sevco out of Scottish Football?
Personally I think that reconstruction will be beneficial for Sevco. I think that the nonsense spouted by Green and Traynor is nothing but a smoke screen. They want this to go through, they just want to manipulate other Clubs supporters into believing they are against it, to convince them that it is not beneficial to them and make it more palatable to supporters who have demanded no fast tracking..
I believe that their MAIN OBJECTIVE is to get Longmuir, or another “Established Brother” to head the new set up. That is their main goal, from there they will once again dominate the corridors of power for many more years.
===============================
I agree with this, it is a smokescreen, putting across the message that they are the victims again, all part of the plan before the switcheroo up a division. Cmon Celtic / Aberdeen call them out and throw a spanner in the works. Vote for the status quo and add playoffs.
Not sure I’m happy about it but it looks like its 3 leagues of 12-12-17 🙂