We thought it would be good to show the audience we have had over the last few months, and to say thanks to all those who have helped to make this a thriving community in the short time we have been on the go.
A Happy New year to all from everyone at TSFM.
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The WordPress.com stats helper monkeys prepared a 2012 annual report for this blog.
Here’s an excerpt:
About 55,000 tourists visit Liechtenstein every year. This blog was viewed about 3,500,000 times in 2012. If it were Liechtenstein, it would take about 64 years for that many people to see it. Your blog had more visits than a small country in Europe!
jimmicks75 says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 14:33
==================================
I’ve a few good friends from Sligo, and have been to the Rovers for a summer evening game a few times, then back to The Garavogue whilst it’s still light for a Guinness, sitting by the river.
The sooner we move to Summer football the better.
The journey to away games is more enjoyable in good summer weather too.
broadswordcallingdannybhoy says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 15:06
The sooner we move to Summer football the better.
The journey to away games is more enjoyable in good summer weather too
_________________________________________________________________________________
….in good summer weather ….
If only.
Jimmicks
Good post.
Added to all the good points you make, a summer league without the malevolant influence of a demonstrably biased governing body, and it might indeed work.
However, football in the basking sunshine while the fans sport speedos and sip pina coladas, will still fail if we remain saddled with any of the likes of Ogilvie, Doncaster, Regan, Longmuir and Ballantyne, their rule breaking and ‘honest mistakes’.
Replace this lot with honest men and I believe the other problems will be solved for the good of the game.
Governing body reconstruction is what is needed. Urgently.
And….. wouldn’t it be a terrific thing if we had a governing body who actually DID help out struggling clubs, clubs who have fallen on hard times? (As opposed to a governing body who have facilitated, and attempted to reward, cheating.)
ecobhoy says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 14:05
I wonder what the Sevco definition of ‘The Scottish Domestic Treble’ actually is?
———————————————————————————————————-
Regan, Doncaster and Ogilvie in the back pocket perhaps? 🙂
16 team league (home & away) … check
One up ONE down automatically … check
2nd & 3rd bottom play 2nd and 3rd top in playoffs … check
home & away in cups to increase games … check
lower leagues still have the Ramsdens Cup … check
summer Football … check
as a fan of a big club I would also be in favour of gate money split as per cups (20/40/40)
if we DON’T be fair we shall end up with no-one to play !!
we ALL have to cut our cloth accordingly
at the end of the day all I want is the teams that visit my team to
“Have A Go !!!”
All Rosy Now Eh ?
More light entertainment from RM, starting with a poster who doesn’t appear to understand what “intimidation” means … indeed, the BBC may have had a word with Tom English, but I imagine it was to inform him of the sort of texts that were coming in …
——
Its time at least ONE of these Rangers hating bastards was hammered hard for their conduct.
Its interesting that immediately after he said it, I texted the 80295 number, saying….”keep talking english, every word you spout from your vile mouth is being recorded, and please carry on slandering Charles Green.
English then disappeared from the broadcast for a full half hour, and when he returned, he was saying that he had not accused Green of lying but did know that Rangers had been kept in the loop with the facts.
I get the feeling that BBC had pulled him aside and warned him of his outburst, and he was trying to cover his tracks.
——
… a whole thread speculating that HMRC are RTC, this justified by the fact that there will be no investigation into possible leaks from HMRC to RTC.
——
… more on the “We’re The Most British Fitba Team in Britain” thing:
“The English clubs might not sing it (GStQ) but thats probably because they’ve been too long without anyone standing up for their country.
When we show up at their grounds proudly displaying the Union Flag and belting out God Save The Queen any right thinking Englishman will feel the hairs on the back of his neck stand up. Make no mistake, we would be an inspiration down there and will bring the crown and the country back to the forefront of football. Others will soon follow suit, and they will be better for it. But they’ll always know that is was the Rangers who led the way.
What we can bring to an English league is mind blowing.”
——
… this clown gets rightly ridiculed:
“Given that Rangers have officially rejected their ticket allocation for the DU game surely it is up to that club to implement some form of vetting of those buying tickets for the away section of the ground. Can anybody tell me what punishments can be applied to a club that has sold tickets to possible fans of a third party club for the away section of their ground?”
——
I’m away to cook the tea.
.
Peter Lawwell said a couple of days back that, to get out of the gridlock, Celtic were willing to compromise in terms of prize money allocation. While cynics may have thought that this simply reflected the new maths in the SPL, notably an 11-1 majority that no longer blocked change with the departure of Rangers from the top flight, nevertheless Lawwell struck a welcome note that Celtic were prepared to see a re-allocation positively.
However, having now seen Jim Spence’s article this afternoon, I wonder what Lawwell was making such a fuss about! The amount to be given up by the top club is £315,000, similar to the difference between what the top club received, £2.7m (around 17%) and the runner up, £2.4m (around 15%).
For a club with a 2011 turnover of £52.6m, this amount is relatively small change, proportionally the equivalent of teams on a turnover of ten times less giving up £31.5K of their income.
I’m not sure how Celtic have managed to negotiate such a low amount given the voting structure of the SPL? While a welcome step in the right direction, it is a small step and not indicative of a club that has bought in to the concept of interdependence as critical to the future health of Scottish football.
To avoid any doubt, I wasn’t anticipating a punitive proposal but a contribution of around £600K would have been reasonable, while still leaving the winner with at least c12%, an allocation of over £2m.
manandboy says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 15:29
….in good summer weather ….
If only.
====================================
Thanks for blowing the most obvious hole in my argument 🙂
Just to add a bit of context to my previous post, here’s an interesting article comparing the allocations in the EPL and La Ligia. In the former the top club gets about 1.5 times the income of the bottom club in a 20 team league. In the SPL Spence mentioned that the bottom club currently get £750K. So if Celtic’s income is reduced to £2.4, they will still get over 3 times the income of the bottom club and that in a 12 team as opposed to a 20 team league.
http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/tv-revenue-distribution-%E2%80%93-comparing-italian-and-english-models
I know that this issue was debated on RTC last summer and what is the right answer will always be subjective. Some argue that as the top two (when they are Celtic and Rangers) generate most of the interest, they should get proportionally a larger share of the cake than the top 2 in England. I’ve always subscribed to the view that a bit more equality, apart from adding the spice of a bit more competition to the league, also gives a chance to more clubs to develop interest in “their brand” and consequently boost the overall marketability / interest / income in the League.
What does appear to have been settled on is, for those with my perspective on this issue, disappointing although it wouldn’t be a surprise if the second place in the League has agreed to a reduction of a rather greater share of income than the winner.
I’d introduce summer football with a few changes:
Each game to produce a winner, with penalties after 90 mins if it ended in a draw.
Any team scoring in 10 consecutive matches earns an additional 3 points.
An extra point for any team scoring 5 goals in a match.
Any team failing to score in 5 consecutive matches has their management team publicly flogged on the steps of Hampden.
Taysider, how much money are the Dundee clubs putting in ?
Thought for today.
Imagine stating, in advance of negotiations with the TV companies, that the game is face Armageddon!!!! and these are the people restructuring the Leagues!
Where’s me walking stick?
also you do understand that turnover is not profit.
troyblain says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 18:02
Taysider, how much money are the Dundee clubs putting in ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
None of the teams are putting in ANY money! Celtic have merely agreed that the winners of the top league would receive less. It is being assumed that that would be Celtic.
Nice to see the “summer football” debate on here. Personally, I don’t believe in what some see as “summer football” as a season running from spring to autumn. It is more simple. Run the season as it is with a decent winter break – all of January and a chunk of February and extend the season into early June and start again in July. The benefits are obvious – better pitch, overhead conditions, fan comfort ….. Add in more Friday evening matches in the warmer months (Saturday free for golf!) and it’s likely many fans will come back.
The other side of the discussion is admission prices. When the £20 barrier was passed a few seasons ago I’m sure it caused several of us to think twice about going. £20 is a psychological barrier for an admission price. £20 could be justified as the top price but I’m sure most would agree that £10 – £15 is more like the price most of us would be willing to pay.
Oh, and another thing ….. safe standing terracing please. Paying £23 to sit in the freezing cold is not my preferred option. Back in the 80’s when my team used to be quite good, visits to Tannadice, Tynecastle and Hampden were great. Although, I must admit the steep Tannadice terracing was a bit scary! Happy Days…
troyblain says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 18:02
Taysider, how much money are the Dundee clubs putting in ?
———————————————————————-
Don’t know the breakdown, but I’ve heard on Sportsound that in total the proposal is that over £1m would be pushed down to the second tier.
What would be reasonable? Dundee United’s income and staff costs are probably not far off about 10% of Celtics, that is turnover £5m v £50m, wages £3m v £30m. If each allocation for the top two places in the League was reduced by 5%, so 1st 17% to 12%, 2nd 15% to 10% and all the other clubs contributed around 0.5% each to the second tier, then proportionately to income each club would contribute at a similar level and around 15% or c£1.8m could have been provided to the 2nd tier.
Re turnover v profit, profit depends on the approach by a club to it’s variable costs, the largest bring wages. Think assuming around 60% is reasonable.
Bailemeanach says @ 14.43:-
If Jim Spence’s article accurate, I would anticipate the restructuring to be in place for 2013/14 season.
It would also make Green (with envy), McCoist and the MSM irrelevant in terms of their protestations.
That’ll do for me – bring it on!
Mr McCoist’s comments in the press that it just wouldn’t be fair to ask the fans to go back to places like Peterhead next year … an excellent example of the kind of arrogance and self-importance which has driven an ever-increasing wedge between TRFC and everyone else.
I can’t wait for the TRFC – Dundee Utd game. Potential banana skin for the Arabs, but surely we can look forward to a sound thrashing for the upstart diddy club, with terrace chants of “Charlie Charlie shut yer mouth”? 🙂
bect67 says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 19:43
bect – That’s how I read it too, and Spence is generally on the money
angus1983 says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 19:
Will McCoist ever stop spouting nonsense like this? Unless there’s something wrong with the town of Peterhead, or other towns TRFC are having to play this season, then why shouldn’t their fans be expected to travel there, once a season, as opposed to Edinburgh or Dundee four times, Aberdeen twice, Inverness twice, Dingwall twice…
What will it take for just one member of the MSM to ask him to explain why TRFC fans shouldn’t go to Peterhead, unless, of course, he’s concerned for the welfare of the good people of that town?
allyjambo says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 20:07
Perhaps if they looked at it as a penance for the catalogue of wrongdoings that has gone before..
Taysider says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 17:34
4 1 Rate This
Just to add a bit of context to my previous post, here’s an interesting article comparing the allocations in the EPL and La Ligia. In the former the top club gets about 1.5 times the income of the bottom club in a 20 team league. In the SPL Spence mentioned that the bottom club currently get £750K. So if Celtic’s income is reduced to £2.4, they will still get over 3 times the income of the bottom club and that in a 12 team as opposed to a 20 team league.
http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/tv-revenue-distribution-%E2%80%93-comparing-italian-and-english-models
I know that this issue was debated on RTC last summer and what is the right answer will always be subjective. Some argue that as the top two (when they are Celtic and Rangers) generate most of the interest, they should get proportionally a larger share of the cake than the top 2 in England. I’ve always subscribed to the view that a bit more equality, apart from adding the spice of a bit more competition to the league, also gives a chance to more clubs to develop interest in “their brand” and consequently boost the overall marketability / interest / income in the League.
What does appear to have been settled on is, for those with my perspective on this issue, disappointing although it wouldn’t be a surprise if the second place in the League has agreed to a reduction of a rather greater share of income than the winner.
————
Good points Taysider, after all, winning the league should be about the honour and not the prize money. Financial benefits follow automatically via other avenues. The two big Glasgow clubs will always have the potential to be streets ahead of the rest because of their huge fanbase. Euro income and other revenues come their way too as top dogs. It has always seemed wrong that they also got the lion’s share of the money pot too. I think they mentioned on Sportsound today that for some of the lower-division clubs this may be their last chance to retain full-time football. So bravo to Celtic for showing the right attitude on this recently.
Maybe clubs could insist that as a condition of voting 18-12-12 through, Regan, Doncaster and Ogilvie step aside and let others come forward who are more in tune with the paying customers?
Danish Pastry
And Longmuir too
Please all of them for the wpp
Sorry WPB as in the bin not WPP as in Martin Sorrells Group of media companies
On Summer Football, the big insurmountable problem for me is that it takes it away from the school year. That it goes on during the school year means that football is the game kids play all the time and keeps it at the forefront of their mind and in their conversation. I would, therefore, be concerned that after a few seasons kids will turn to rugby exactly as they did in the Borders.
As for reconstruction, I’ve composed an idea of my own: http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/40364351800/coming-up-with-better
To be fair though, I’m more sold on the current plan now that the pyramid is being opened up, although I worry that SFL3 teams will vote against it because of that.
Angus1983 @ 19:51
I would like to hear the following little ditty to the tune of Charlie is my darling with a little intro before you get into the tune it would go;
Oooh eee by gum…. Oh Charlie you’re a plonker a plonker a plonker oh Charlie you’re a plonker and your rantings a disgrace 😉
I do of course foresee the word plonker being replaced by a word that ryhmes with anchor 😉
wjohnston1 says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 10:52
Today’s Herald contains at Page 15 an excellently written Obituary on the former Rangers Director Hugh Adam. One quote stands out ” He will be missed by many, particularly because of his honesty, his integrity and his caring regard for other people – attributes which seem sadly lacking in many in the world of football”. I wonder to whom this refers.
——————————————————————————————-
I wrote to The Herald expressing my disgust at the original so called obituary and received a reply from an assistant editor stating that the newspaper planned to publish a second “obituary”. Here is my response to his e-mail;
Mr …
Assistant Editor
The Herald
12th January 2013
Dear Sir,
Obituary of Hugh Adam; The Herald Saturday, 12th January 2013
Thank you for your e-mail of 6th January 2013.
I have read the obituary of Hugh Adam in today’s edition of The Herald. It is a well-balanced tribute, written with objectivity and tact. It is a far cry from the character assassination that the Editor sanctioned in the article appearing in The Herald on 5th January 2013.
The fact that two so diametrically opposed pieces are published within such a short time of each other suggests that the editorial board of The Herald lacks proper management and control of its journalistic policy. Or is the Editor now merely attempting to redress the damage done to readership circulation by his earlier failure in the matter?
Yours faithfully,
Going on the same theme as livinhop,
TU if you believe Longmuir should be the head a single governing body if reconstruction goes ahead.
TD if you believe Longmuir should NOT be the head a single governing body if reconstruction goes ahead.
troyblain says:
also you do understand that turnover is not profit…
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,,
Absolutely tb..turnover..it's the war cry of the busy fool 🙂
dinaryfan says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 21:57
TU if you believe Longmuir should be …….
=======
Now that is clear and easy …….. I am Thumbs down ……. twice .
I am now convinced that CG spouts any old guff just to keep sevco 2012 in the limelight ,his biggest fear now must be that if he just shuts up and gets on with the football sevco will be revealed as what they really are ,another 3rd div team .This week has shown just how relevant sevco 2012 are in the big scheme of things .No chance of SPL/Euro football for 3yrs ,they don’t even have a vote on the things that matter in our game .
Is it just a coincidence that the flood of garbage has flowed from Ibrokes this week ,a week when Celtic announce their own big money sponsorship deal and league reconstruction being proposed exposing sevco 2012 as impotent rather than important .Even the most fervent sevco fans must now be having worrying thoughts in their quieter moments .The trouble Chuckles has though is that he is running out of material and now just seems to be resorting to absolute piffle
All the top euro teams told him at the ECA conference they want sevco 2012 at Qatar and they will pay their flights and hotel bills
He has been inundated with celtic fans telling him they would not have renewed their STs if they knew ragers were not going to be there ,they were duped .
If I were a sevco fan I would be getting very worried indeed if he is resorting to nonsense like that so early in the season ,we can only speculate as to what he will be saying by the end of the season but it doesn’t look good
newRCFC being a new club have an associate membership that lasts 5 years. Can you play in Europe with an associate membership ?
troyblain
Not sure but if there is any doubt I,m sure Uefa will side with Sevco 2012 ,well it’s not as though they have been threatening to take them to court or anything silly like that !.
Green is a Spiv as are all the other businessmen with a stake in TRFC ( I exclude Smith and McCoist who don`t Spiv for a living )
Spivs have one aim only
To make short term money by exploiting company law
So all public statements by Green must be viewed in that context
ie
How do they help make short term money for Spivs?
The currrent aim is to pump up the share price.this an be done by rigging sales in all sorts of ways. It is only possible however if their is a limited number of shares available to trade which is exactly what has happened
The Spivs also have their eye on the next big “Milking of the Gullible” which is the next ST sale
Similar motivation underlies the application to wind up Sevco 5088. The Spivs intention is to eliminate Sevco5088 before it is obliged to file accounts
If the winding up is unnopposed then nobody will ever know what Green paid Ticketus,Close Leasing and Whyte for their cooperation in acquiring the assets (but not the goodwill) of Rangers Football Club and changing its name to Rangers 2012
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Frankly its a waste of time speculating on the content of anything Green has to say. The only rationale is making money from the Gullible
.
Green has no intention of being anywhere near TRFC when most of these talking points and sound bites require action by TRFC
Its not a secret
That how Spivs operate
Tommy says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 21:56
15 1 Rate This
Good for you on pursuing this; the fact that the Herald have found it necessary to publish a 2nd obituary would indicate that an apology should also be published. I trust that will be forthcoming
We neede to know our ambassadors.
The multifarious mob that reside in Govan are trump[tting their recent invitation from the ECA to a talking shop in a European city. At this time, like no other, I’m all for Scottish football saying to Green – aye, you can go, but keep your mouth shut ya muppet. Pressumably the ECA have extended their invite, as detailed on Sevco’s webshite to others from this peninnsula.
So, you manage a juvenile, female football team.
For a league game, the opposition turn up.
Their team are the same age group, but all boys.
If the game went ahead, would this be fair competition ?
No, of course not.
Or, you manage a football team, at under-14 age group.
For a league game, the opposition turn up.
Their team are actually all boys aged 18.
If the game went ahead, would this be fair competition ?
No, of course not.
Perhaps, you manage a part-time football team of full-time posties, plumbers, etc…
For a normal league game, [i.e. not a one-off cup game], the opposition turn up.
Their team are all full-time professionals.
If the game went ahead, would this be fair competition ?
No, of course not.
Rather than issuing threats and intimidating opposition clubs, ‘whilst making friends in SFL3’, you would think that TRFC would be thoroughly embarrassed that they are playing part-timers.
You would think that TRFC would be acting in a humble, quiet manner – at least until they get back to playing in a full-time league.
But no.
And when TRFC win SFL3 in Feb/March, will they quietly celebrate their win against part-time opponents ?
Or will TRFC go overboard in their celebrations – as though they had actually won the elusive European Cup ?
Full-time professionals against a league of part-time opponents is not sport.
‘Tainted, full-time title’ ?
If you want to see the future of Scottish football look no further than Falkirk football club. What I think was our youngest senior team ever fielded played league leaders Morton off the park today. Yes we lost 1-0 but it was a pleasure to watch. Average age was under 20. No EBT’s, no tax dodging, just good solid foundations from a community club. Now that’s dignity and real pride.
StevieBC says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 00:05
Full-time professionals against a league of part-time opponents is not sport.
======
World Record holders care not for such niceties.
My main hope for restructuring was that it would focus on ensuring that, over time, talented Scottish players actually play for our clubs.
To borrow some Masonic terminology, I can’t believe this is not the keystone around which the new foundations are being built.
Inverness started a game at the end of last season with 11 non-Scots!
My vision of Scottish football involves clubs such as Inverness fielding a team made up mostly of Scots with only a smattering of non-nationals.
Kind of like the eight-diddy rule!
I am all for something similar as I am a firm believer that there is plenty of fledgling talent out there waiting to be moulded by our clubs.
While football has gone global we should not be at the vanguard of this movement, which is best exemplified by the EPL.
We should know our place.
We are a small feeder nation whose players traditionally head south in search of the big time.
But over the last 20 odd years we have become a mass importer of players.
The SPL is a poor man’s EPL, to an extent.
Much of the blame for this can be laid at David Murray’s door.
You all know the script but I will provide a synopsis anyway.
For the first-time in Scottish football Murray brought big-name foreign stars to our country.
(the fact this was all financed by unsustainable debt and tax avoidance strategies was obviously not known for several years)
As it was, Murray’s strategy initially proved a great success and other clubs tried to imitate this football Svengali’s philosophy.
My own favourite was when St Mirren signed former Spain and Barcelona midfielder Victor.
The result was clubs racking up massive debts while opening the floodgates to a mass influx of foreigners.
It was as if a collective madness had consumed Scottish football.
We lost touch with ourselves.
Our clubs had competed, and often defeated the best sides in Europe, with 11 Scottish players over the years.
Our best players used to make their mark in our leagues and then be sold for profit to England while new players were brought through.
That was our formula for “success” and that was our place in the game.
Yes, the world has changed but this formula should not be thrown out as it is key to our “success”.
It is not a coincidence that the national team suffered as our game became saturated by non-Scottish players over the years.
I believe we have to get back to our roots and reconnect with our past.
This sort of talk is anathema to many fans who realise their short-term hopes in Europe would be killed off by forcing their club to play more Scots.
However, I believe it is in everybody’s long-term interest to embrace such a model – even Celtic’s unless they can escape to another league.
The Germans and the English have rules about how many “nationals” must be in their academies and squads and there is room to be creative to get around European legislation.
My vision is that our clubs stipulate that by 2020 at least 20 of their registered top-team squad have attended school in this country for at least five years.
Arguing about 16-10-16 or 12-12-18 league formats is beside the point, as far as I am concerned.
The debate should be about how we best ensure our own youngsters are given the chance to play and develop at our professional clubs.
I accept my view may be old fashioned and simplistic but I am convinced my model at least offers a financially sustainable future.
Forcing Scottish clubs to field a majority of Scottish players will level the playing field and – you never know – over time the overall product on the park may actually improve.
We should have more faith in our kids and invest our future in them.
Hear Hear … Ray Charlez !
Ray Charlez (and Whisperer18)
And who was at Rangers (IL) – for 27 years – when the tax avoidance strategies were being implemented and who gained personally from these tax avoidance strategies which have so damaged the Scottish game?
– Campbell bloody Ogilvie, the present head of the SFA. What chance have we got?
doontheslope says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 07:08
====================================
Funnily enough,look who’s in the Sun this morning:
Ogilvie has Euro vision for future
By ROBERT MARTIN
Published: 6 hrs ago
6
CAMPBELL OGILVIE has told Charles Green that he won’t let Rangers quit Scottish football.
But the SFA President insists he WILL do all he can to help both Gers and Celtic live their dream of being part of an all-new European league set-up further down the line.
Ibrox supremo Charles Green claimed earlier this week that his club should look to leave if the SPL and SFL’s plans to introduce a new 12-12-18 league set-up are pushed through. Right now Gers would have nowhere to go — and UEFA rules wouldn’t allow them to move to another country.
But SFA President Ogilvie senses chiefs in Nyon are finally warming to the idea of establishing a cross-border league involving some of the continent’s bigger clubs.
And he revealed he can now see a scenario where one day the Old Firm could be involved in both a Scottish AND European set-up.
He said: “We have a situation in this country where the championship has been won by the Old Firm something like 47 times in 50 years.
“I can understand the Rangers scenario or certain clubs maybe wanting to play elsewhere. The slight change this time is that there’s been a softening with UEFA on this.
“They are opening up more to the idea of clubs crossing borders.
“I don’t know where that’s going to go — and even if it goes somewhere it’s not going to move forward significantly in the next two or three years.
“We embrace looking at that. We have to be looking at these issues and we have an open mind — we’re not anti that at all.
“A year ago I went to a UEFA meeting where the issue was raised for the first time. We reported it to the Professional Game Body here and the decision was taken that, yes, we should be looking at this. We’ve been involved in discussions. The European Club Association has been involved and so have UEFA.
“We can’t be left behind. It’s an avenue we have to explore.
“But it won’t change overnight.”
Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell, unlike Green, confirmed earlier this week that the Hoops ARE keen to play their part in the new 12-12-18 set-up.
But the Hoops have openly admitted they would be interested in playing in an expanded European league.
Ogilvie believes a number of big clubs across the continent are now starting to share a similar view.
But he insists the Old Firm’s first priority must be helping Scottish football get its house in order.
He said: “We’ve got to be a step ahead so we are speaking to UEFA. The clubs in the ECA — Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen to a lesser degree — will be involved in these debate.
“That’s being done — but what we have is an immediate problem in the game and that has to be addressed at the same time.
“In the short term we have to be looking at how we can improve the game in this country.
“That’s where we need ALL the clubs working together going forward.”
torrejohnbhoy says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 07:23
So, with Scottish football struggling to find concensus over reconstruction, and with the biggest investigation into cheating the game has ever known in our country ongoing, the head of the overall governing body finds time to worry about the future of the newest club in Scotland. He’s kept his head down throughout most of the past year, while leadership was demanded, but chooses a subject that could only benefit two of the sides within his jurisdiction while ignoring the insults bandied about, towards the SFA and the whole of Scottish football, by the leader of one of those sides.
It’s noteable that the club which has suffered most financially as a result of Rangers’ shenanigans, Celtic, have remained silent over this issue, despite being the club most likely to get any kind of invitation to move outwith Scotland, at a time when they could be seen to have more justification to seek a berth elsewhere than they have ever had. Mr Ogilvie, there are 41 more members of the SFA, most of whom could do with the level of assistance you appear only too willing to give to the club that has replaced the one you previously worked for, and now appear, at least, to continue to work for.
Just why anyone at the SFA should choose to give succour to Charles Green while he spouts his insulting nonsense is beyond me. Unless, of course, those who should be dealing with him have reasons to let him do as he pleases.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/historic-association-at-forefront-of-mccoists-vision-of-the-future.19897863
ALLY McCoist has hinted that Rangers would only leave for the English leagues if they were also permitted to retain a team in the Scottish system – even though they currently don’t have enough bodies to field two senior teams.
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Oh Dear – Recent history leads me to believe another history sale is in the offing 🙂
But at the end of the day it’s only Ally’s vision and we all know that’s hard-wired to Chuck’s mouth.
Although if the history is sold to the ‘colt’ team who will the Ger hordes be following in Europe or wherever – one thing for sure the five stars will be gone or will the ‘colts’ inherit them.
Tricky business this history thing.
ecobhoy says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 08:24
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http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/historic-association-at-forefront-of-mccoists-vision-of-the-future.19897863
ALLY McCoist has hinted that Rangers would only leave for the English leagues if they were also permitted to retain a team in the Scottish system – even though they currently don’t have enough bodies to field two senior teams.
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Oh Dear – Recent history leads me to believe another history sale is in the offing 🙂
But at the end of the day it’s only Ally’s vision and we all know that’s hard-wired to Chuck’s mouth.
Although if the history is sold to the ‘colt’ team who will the Ger hordes be following in Europe or wherever – one thing for sure the five stars will be gone or will the ‘colts’ inherit them.
Tricky business this history thing.
====================================================
Ally also in the paper claiming that the transfer embargo should be dropped if reconstruction is in place for next season.New start for everybody etc,etc.
WRT buying history,I’d like to ask our Little Yorkshire Pudding how much he’d raise if he sold it?.
allyjambo says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 08:21
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Ogilvie must think it’s OK to re-appear.The switch must be almost complete.It’s disgraceful that not one club has stood up and questioned Ogilvies position.The longerthis goes on the more complicit all clubs are in this fiasco.
Early end to Ibrox transfer ban ‘is fair shout’
By MARTIN HANNAN
Published on Sunday 13 January 2013 00:00
IT LOOKS increasingly likely that the Scottish professional leagues are to be restructured next summer, with a single league body created out of the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League.
Every club will get a fresh start as a new member of a new league, with its position in the three divisions decided on “sporting merit” as pledged by SFA chief executive Stewart Regan, which means that Rangers will be in the lowest tier again. Yet there is one hangover from the club’s financial collapse which will mean that Rangers, uniquely, will not start with a clean slate like every other club.
The Scottish Football Association imposed a transfer embargo on Rangers for the sins committed by the club under Craig Whyte’s ownership.
That embargo carries on until 1 September – so in the interests of a “fresh start for all”, couldn’t the ban be lifted at the end of this season when the transfer window opens on 1 June?
“It’s certainly a fair shout,” said Rangers manager Ally McCoist, adding quickly, “to us anyway.” He added: “They’re changing the structure and the set-ups within the leagues and the punishment is going to stay in place. But, if it was changed in the summer and the embargo lifted, we wouldn’t need to wait until 1 September.”
If the Rangers embargo continues until 1 September, McCoist thinks he will face massive difficulties in signing players with more “last-minute” deals being done as happened at the start of this season.
“Getting players in last year was a ridiculous scenario, with players coming in 36 hours before we were playing our first game,” said McCoist.
“It might not be just as ridiculous as that this year but it’s still shaping up like being pretty difficult – only a seven on the ridiculous scale.”
I am sick of hearing about the big crowds (world records) at a 3rd Div game in Scotland. Let’s look at this. It is an absolute bonus for the teams within that league.
For the home team Sevco at present this may help keep them from dying again (time will tell) as the wage bill at that club is higher than all clubs in SPL apart from one. The current price of the season tickets is very reasonable and apparently there are a vast number of concession tickets amongst that number for children and old men (not to mention free tickets).
The fans of Sevco had no other option but to purchase these season books for if they did not their club would have possibly died again. Bearing in mind that Charlie had received death threats from the same fans only weeks before the season books went on sale. So basically it was an emotional purchase of season books to safe Sevco.
I am sick of we were relegated and punished by all clubs in SPL all fans in Scotland hate us and we will not forget, the threat of boycotts etc….. This attitude is from the top of this club to the bottom. This concept is from owner Charlie, manager Ally, PR man Taylor and the vast majority of their fans. This is not a healthy attitude and does not bear well for the future.
The reconstruction scenario at present does not really affect Sevco’s time scale to the probable promotion to the SPL (which Charlie apparently does not want to join). Charlie stated that he wants out of Scotland as after Jan if reconstruction goes ahead as Sevco will have meaningless games. I recall before the season started the Sevco fans stated “how many of the wee diddy teams will we pump10 nil” Surely if that had come to fruition then most games would have been meaningless.
I am sick of Sevco “nobody from football authorities consulted with us “the biggest club in Scotland” about reconstruction a bit of “we are the people “mindset here.
I am sick of MSM not asking Sevco why they are where they are and why they have no vote in the reconstruction plan. NEW club has NO vote.
Do we want this club and the attitude that it brings with it to the SPL?
Charlie does not want back
Their fans are full of threats and boycotts
The club does not want to admit its wrong doings and Charlie says nobody like us and the fans believe and buy the season books and Charlie say “thanks”.
I for one am not looking forward to the future when Sevco arrive back in the top league in Scotland.
BDO are a wee bit quiet?
Iceman
Re the Herald article
They basically want a foot in both camps, a sentence that contains the words “cake and eat” comes to mind but would never apply to that mob surely.
He (CO) said: “We’ve got to be a step ahead so we are speaking to UEFA. The clubs in the ECA — Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen to a lesser degree — will be involved in these debate.”
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Shurely “Rangers to a lesser degree”, seeing as they’re only associate members whilst the other three are full members?
As mentioned before, for the life of me I can’t fathom why ogilvie has been ‘in position’ apparently doing very little work, when he has admitted being in receipt of an rfcil EBT/loan-thatdoesn’tneedtobepaidback. DODGEEEE guy how can they expect everything to be honest fair and transparent when he’s in charge ???? GET RID ASAP 🙂
Re Ally [very big now on sporting integrity]
I am sure he did not get to finish his interview regards reconstruction and the ban being lifted ,I imagine it went something like this ,”along with our ban being lifted I think its only fair that all other clubs are allowed to drop their debts and we all start this new venture on a level playing field as one big happy family ,its only fair after all we have done to the game”
whisperer18 says:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 at 13:52
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There were no good old days that is why it was changed to the 4 games each per season.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 08:50
‘Every club will get a fresh start’. What, exactly, does that mean? What have all the other 41 clubs got to start fresh from? Is he suggesting that from now until the end of the season every other club should cheat, go into administration then liquidation, start up again, and then get a ‘fresh start’? Of course, what he really means is; TRFC should get a fresh start, another leg-up, a place at the top table, forgiveness while they forgive… oh no, I forgot about that one, they don’t do forgiveness, even when there’s nothing to forgive! And yet again, another journalist chooses to pass on the words of Green, via Ally, without asking any of the real questions.
So the SFA have indeed allowed the transfer of history why should we not be surprized. The stich up of the century years in the planning They got away with it with a slap on the wrists. Football in this country is dead.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 08:34
For a club who are happy to be where they are and take their punishment they sure sound the opposite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Scream.jpg
allyjambo says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 08:21
I was listening to BBC Sportsound after the games yesterday when the question of leadership was raised with George Peat. The names discussed were Doncaster and Regan but Ogilvie never got a mention (not that I heard).
Funny how he remains invisible in all this and that this invisibility is never questionned.
I don’t really see it as the SFa’s gift to give. History is not a saleable, it simply is a record of what has gone before. and all of us know what has gone before.
We have a new club playing in the bottom tier of the SFL, that they choose to call themselves after a now defunct club, doesn’t mean that they have their history. If someone decides to open a shop and call it The Woolworths, even if they use a site previously occuppied by the original woolworths, would that mean that they are not really a new shop? I don’t think so.
It is time that The people who think they are, realised that what they have are memories of a club who have now been consigned to history .
Chick Young and Richard Gordon had in my opinion a very illuminating exchange yesterday afternoon on Sportsound, when discussing the league reconstruction and the impact on TRFC.
Highlights of the exchange (paraphrased as best as I can recall):
CY – the change is unfair on TRFC and their fans: meaningless games etc. CY It would be better to hold off reconstruction as this is fairer to TRFC.
RG all concerned will have to give and take for the better of Scottish football.
CY – we also need to get a new sponsor for the league – existing sponsorship about to conclude.
RG – for that reason is it not better for the whole game if the changes goes through ASAP to secure a new sponsor.
CY – [Floundering] – Yes I did think of that and it makes a lot of sense – we need a new sponsor and confusion as to what product a sponsor will be sponsoring will be damaging. However, despite that, reconstruction as currently mooted not fair on TRFC – change should be delayed.
I felt that this was illuminating as on of the games most prolific commentators on the sport CY clearly put (in my opinion) the interests on one club above all others – with no reference as to why that Club is now in the position of being in SPL3.
I do get the sense that Radio Scotland are reacting to the questions that the RTC blog asked of the media – and they are upping their game (which was quite good in the first placed in my opinion). Now that Mr Traynor has left the BBC the JT / CY personality and opinion clashes do not feature and more voices are being heard. I was impressed with Tom English yesterday afternoon and Jim Spence both challenging the position Charles Green that TRFC had not bee consulted about the changes.
Ecojohn posted an article by Tom English, over on Paul McConville’s blog.
Tom English: ‘Green would rather create the myth of Rangers being persecuted than admit that the SFA backed them’
http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/opinion/comment/tom-english-green-would-rather-create-the-myth-of-rangers-being-persecuted-than-admit-that-the-sfa-backed-them-1-2734842
I felt it was not as hard hitting as it might have been and gave the following reply to Ecojohn:
A question that should be asked, and it’s here that English remains lumped in with the rest of the succulent lambs because he only flirts with getting tough on Green & Co, is why have the SFA, and the other governing bodies, never responded to Green’s claims and pointed out just exactly how much they have done for TRFC? Though we all know the answer, we also know that these bodies don’t want to confirm how they’ve aided this new club at a level never before known, and will never be known again (unless it’s for TRFC). Why doesn’t Tom English, if he is seriously trying to be a proper journalist, go to the SFA and ask that, and many more, question? Then, if they don’t give proper answers, that are fully justified by answers to hard hitting follow-up questions, write an article fully describing their failure to give these answers that draws the only conclusions that such failures imply – cover-ups. Until such times that the hard questions are asked, and failure to respond is ridiculed by someone in the MSM, then these cowards, with something to hide, will remain with their heads down and continue to get away with whatever they want.
By their continued failure to bring Green to task for these false accusations, and to even repond via the press to refute his claims, it is ever more obvious that they have overstepped the mark in their attempts to aid TRFC and have something to hide. Green knows it and is using it to his advantage. Come on Mr English, or any other journalist who would like to break the big story, get along to Hampden, ask the questions they don’t want asked, then show true journalistic ability by drawing them out with an article that leaves them with no choice other than to respond. Even just to get them to show you, and let you publish, the details of the 5 way agreement together with their justification of each and every salient point, would be the biggest journalistic coupe in the history of Scottish football.
So the SFA say that they are the same club with 140 years unbroken history
Excuse me Hampden Vipers, what happened over the summer when they actually didn’t exist as a football club
They weren’t members of any football association, or any league, and couldn’t kick a ball in a single pre-season friendly
Remember you had to invent a special class of membership to enable who knows what team to play Brechin
I will bet that the SFA will be raging that this has been exposed, as it simply confirms what we have known all along
The game is being run for the benefit of one club only, and all rules will be thrown out to accommodate that one club
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 11:41
allyjambo says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 08:21
I was listening to BBC Sportsound after the games yesterday when the question of leadership was raised with George Peat. The names discussed were Doncaster and Regan but Ogilvie never got a mention (not that I heard).
Funny how he remains invisible in all this and that this invisibility is never questionned.
_______________________________________
That’s the ongoing problem, none of the really important questions are ever asked, and if they ever were, the MSM would just accept the answer without demanding that the answer is justified in follow up questions.
allyjambo says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 12:13
Indeed,ask the questions on the issues listed under A Question of Trust, they are not going to go away.
What that article by English does is make supporters of all other clubs more determined than ever to have a league where The Rangers with The Rangers current attitude is unacceptable.
You can swerve the rules and bend the message but whilst CG’s PR works for him and his club, it has the opposite effect on all other clubs.
What right minded person would choose to have anything to do with this uncontrite, belligerent, stupid and malevolent organisation in its midst?
Green insults our intelligence and long may he do so, it postpones what he is trying to achieve.
In evolution only the smartest adapt and evolve, stupidity is why The Rangers will struggle.
The moment that The Rangers get their hands on the SFL 3 title and claim it as another one in the bag and the SFL sanction this, it is a slap in the face for honestly and integrity.
campsiejoe says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 12:32
4 0 Rate This
So the SFA say that they are the same club with 140 years unbroken history
Excuse me Hampden Vipers, what happened over the summer when they actually didn’t exist as a football club
They weren’t members of any football association, or any league, and couldn’t kick a ball in a single pre-season friendly
Remember you had to invent a special class of membership to enable who knows what team to play Brechin
I will bet that the SFA will be raging that this has been exposed, as it simply confirms what we have known all along
The game is being run for the benefit of one club only, and all rules will be thrown out to accommodate that one club
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Should the 140 history be an item that can be sold.
TU yes
TD no
Re Tom English’s article and his contribution on Sportsound yesterday.
Once again we have comment and speculation with regard to what the SFA/Ogilvie said to the ECA and what the SFL/Longmuir have been up to with regard to, given the associate member status, keeping T’Rangers involved ‘informally’ with the reorganisation plans.
FFS would it not just be better to have Ogilvie and Longmiur in a live interview answering some simple questions. Then the fans of Scottish football can get the actual position of each organisation with regard to T’ Rangers and it would well and truly be on the record.
If they just came out and said what it is their position is and the rationale behind it. We may not like or agree with it but if it were just clarified once and for all then they would gain a lot more respect as opposed to being viewed as being as as much use as a fart in a spacesuit.
If they don’t say something soon then the status of old/new is going to keep dominating discussions and Green will exploit the SFA/SFL weakness for all it is worth.
As Tom English implies, they should both be publicly saying that they have bent over backwards to help Green and T’Rangers and that some the comments that we have been hearing from Ibrox are both untrue and disrespectful and that if he Green get his act together and represent his club and Scottish Football in a decent manner there will be sanctions brought to bear.
For the good of the whole game it is time the kid gloves came off and a few home truths were publicly voiced by the football authorities.
typo
if Greens doesn’t get is act together……..
Just listening to Fridays ssb on itunes. They played a soundbite of Ally McCoist talking I presume about league reconstruction. Part of what Ally says follows,”our supporters have been slapped right in the coupon at every oppurtunity and it’s unbelievable”, …..”if it goes through it will be another slap on the face of our supporters”. I really don’t understand what Ally is talking about here? Can anyone expand on this and tell what the previous slaps were that the “supporters” have been dealt. Why do none of the msm take statements like this to task and ask for clarity as to the previous harsh treatment Ally talks of?
If Ally is talking about RFC fans who lost money on shares and debentures he should be clear on this but he should also include the face painter, newsagent and general public etc who also got shafted in the liquidation process. Im guessing this is the slaps Ally is talking of because for the life of me I cannot think of any other injustice.
Talk about something often enough and idiots will start to believe you is a sorry sorry tactic.
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 12:35
In evolution only the smartest adapt and evolve, stupidity is why The Rangers will struggle.
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Not sure, heid. In evolution, the survivors are those which best fit their environment and are able to adapt quickly to changes. (Neanderthals, after all, were relatively intelligent and no-one’s quite sure why they disappeared – though most likely out-competed by us in the given niche.)
But given the environment of Scottish fitba – where loud-mouthery, arrogance and threats seem to be the ace cards – I’d have to guess that TRFC are quite well fitted into it. It was thought in the summer that this environment was changing, and that adaptable clubs would be the winners. However, the waters have sadly not shifted much – which means the old rules of survival still apply.
This is why a team by the name of (T)R(I)FC will survive.
A proper fresh start would involve a K-T Boundary style event. Scorched earth and start all over again. Outdated dinosaurs will remain in much reduced form, but those fitted to the new environment will flourish. The chickens of the new setup can claim the history of T-Rex if they like, but we’ll all know they’re at it. 🙂
Meantime, I thoroughly agree that, because of the ongoing stalemate with regard to who TRFC actually are, who played Brechin, etc, that an official statement SHOULD be made by at least the SFA. It should address all the points of contention, and not be secretive. It should not be agreed in advance with CG or AMcC, and it should be able to be discussed, even if not changed.
wottpi says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 13:00
typo
if Greens doesn’t get is act together……..
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Go on, wottpi … one. more. time … 🙂
fara1968 says:
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 13:17
Can anyone expand on this and tell what the previous slaps were that the “supporters” have been dealt.
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And, further, why league reconstruction represents a “slap in the face” to them in the first place?
I think that Celtic supporters quite rightly feel aggrieved that the new Rangers are trying to pass themselves off as the original. They probably worry that they are going to come back to the top tier of the game unjustly bigger and stronger. However, if they thought that this new entity, dressed Buffalo Bill style, in the skin of the old entity, was going to remain in their shadows for the next 20 years or so, I don’t think they would give a jot about them claiming their ‘history’.