2012 in review

We thought it would be good to show the audience we have had over the last few months, and to say thanks to all those who have helped to make this a thriving community in the short time we have been on the go.

A Happy New year to all from everyone at TSFM.

 

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Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,424 thoughts on “2012 in review


  1. Quite a fans’ uproar on Sportsound Extra regarding the 12+12 proposition. It seems to be universally disliked. Talk of mass boycotts.

    Stuart confesses to being a bampot 🙂


  2. nowoldandgrumpy says: at 14:40
    Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence
    So 2 leagues of 12 going to 3×8 after a split looks like being in place for next season.
    ____

    Last they said their professional game board was to sit again on Monday 6 January to continue talks – now perhaps someone`s leaking / hinting on the Saturday prior that it`s all done and dusted? Yet more misinformation and deceit.


  3. twopanda says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 17:59
    0 0 Rate This
    nowoldandgrumpy says: at 14:40
    Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence
    So 2 leagues of 12 going to 3×8 after a split looks like being in place for next season.
    ____

    Last they said their professional game board was to sit again on Monday 6 January to continue talks – now perhaps someone`s leaking / hinting on the Saturday prior that it`s all done and dusted? Yet more misinformation and deceit.
    _____

    Think they are interpreting Longmuir’s statement as a white flag to the SPL. Looks like an organized protest boycott of matches or a walk-out Saturday is all that will shock the chairmen into embracing a bigger league as the fans want.


  4. Re league reconstruction. Call me cynical but I cannot be convinced that this somehow will not benifit newco. I know this is being denied with the 18/12/12 format but I believe that in the 11th hour of negotiations a special case will be made for newco.

    What do you think would happen if chuckles threatens legal action on the grounds that they have been denied promotion after winning their league? Going on the previous trends over the last year I would suggest the following. Newco fans get the open flame torches out and try to intimidate some poor unfortunate who had spoke out against them. The sfa/spl/sfl all buckle under the pressure. And of course newco get the full backing of the media.


  5. Danish Pastry says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 17:54
    ===============================================
    I don’t know what the clubs are thinking off here,especially CFC.this 12-12-18 set up is crazy.The teams in the top 2 divisions are in effect playing 22 qualifiers to sort out which division of 8 they;ll actually compete for honours,promotion/relegation.
    I don’t see the fans being too interested at the start of the season.
    Why not wait until the divisions of 8 start and you know where your team stands?.
    I can see ST sales slumping.
    Also.if they’re determined to start this next season,then this season may as well stop now.CFC will win the league,another 4/5 teams will challenge for the European places,that;s it.No relegation so every game at the bottom of he league becomes meaningless,
    Division 1 may as well stop now because they’re all promoted to SPL 2,the next 4 months are a waste of time.
    Division 2 at least has a challenge of sorts.The top 2 will join SPL 2,the rest dropping to the league of 18.As soon as the top 2 places are sorted,div 2 dies a death.All the rest have to look forward to is a home game against Sevco.Pretty hard on the div 2 teams with ambitions to reach div 1.they’re now down into a division that Sevco will be odds on to win,stifling their promotion ambitions.
    Every cloud has a silver lining though.Just a couple of weeks ago Ally was moaning that the uncertainty wrt reconstruction was unfair on his team only as he didn’t know whether to plan for div 2 or the new 18 team league.Looks like he’ll know sooner rather than later!


  6. I don’t want to jump on the bandwagon regarding the Herald (Hugh Adam) piece but will add this.

    Adam was liked by some influential people at Ibrox and respected by most of the sensible fans. I have only spoken to 2 of them today so not a representative sample but they are both in full agreement; this was a totally unacceptable piece of journalism.

    I am not disgusted (as some others are feeling), I simply find it sad that we, and The Herald, have come to this.


  7. So when did Charlie and his mates buy the 1872 incarnation
    Was it at the same time as he bought the history he keeps ranting on about ?
    According to D&D’s final report to creditor’s, he bought neither
    This complete misrepresentation has to be addressed by the authorities, either legal or football


  8. fara1968 says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 18:22

    Re league reconstruction. Call me cynical but I cannot be convinced that this somehow will not benifit newco. I know this is being denied with the 18/12/12 format but I believe that in the 11th hour of negotiations a special case will be made for newco.
    =========================================================
    This would not surprise anyone.However,senior figures within the game,including Stuart Milne have already stated that league position only will decide who plays where.It would take very brave or very foolish chairman to go against this.The majority of fans would not accept this and the protests at the start of this season will pale into insignificance.
    If the clubs vote Sevco into SPL 2,the fans will react with the biggest boycott of games and ST sales ever seen in Scottish football.It’s simple.Promote Sevco,kill the game!


  9. torrejohnbhoy says

    Promote Sevco,kill the game!

    ============================================

    Great slogan

    A flag or flags at every stadium with that on would send a message out


  10. torrejohnbhoy says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 18:25
    2 0 Rate This
    Danish Pastry says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 17:54
    ===============================================
    I don’t know what the clubs are thinking off here,especially CFC.this 12-12-18 set up is crazy.The teams in the top 2 divisions are in effect playing 22 qualifiers to sort out which division of 8 they;ll actually compete for honours,promotion/relegation …
    _____

    It’s true torre’, it looks like a nonsense, worst of all because fans don’t want it. Must be one of the few businesses that refuses to make a product that customers actually want!

    The SPL and its chairmen must take their part of the blame for the slow lingering death of football. I think Wullie’s converted me to the revolutionary cause 🙂

    I hope Longmuir resists and stays on the side of the fans. Rather stick the status quo and retain his honour than side with Doncaster and the greed-mongers. At some point he might emerge as the leader of a


  11. Just thinking ahead to the LNS enquiry.Who thinks it could go like this:

    LNS.
    “We find Rangers guilty of over a decade of deliberate cheating.We therefore have no option but to strip RFC of titles,and recommend that they be expelled from Scottish Football for 5 years”

    CG
    “But Your Honour,We can’t accept this,we’re a new club,not a continuation of the old company”

    LNS.
    “No sir,you’re not a club at all,you’re a holding company but you’re claiming to be the original club”.

    CG
    “Where?.”

    LNS
    “On your share certificates.this tribunal is now ended,goodbye”.

    Nah,I can’t see it either 😆


  12. It is now crystal clear that reconstruction will be rushed through, and will be in place for next season. Am I the only person asking “why the rush”? Although it’s a bit of a rhetorical question, since I know full well why the rush. This reconstruction is about one thing, and one thing only- getting TRFC into the SPL as quickly as possible.

    There will be no pyramid structure as part of this, “not enough time” or some such rubbish, but there is always enough time to give TRFC a leg-up. There is absolutely nothing in these proposals for the fans, nothing for the smaller clubs, nothing for the applicant clubs to the SFL so royally stuffed to ensure that Sevco got into the SFL, nothing for anyone except TRFC and the clubs in the SPL who are deluded enough to want them back.

    We have been assured that this is not a fix, that invitations will be solely on league standing, blah, blah, blah. Well just wait and watch. Good reasons will be found to ensure that lots of those invited will not be able to accept. That is my confident prediction. Ground too small, artificial pitch, financial problems (oh irony!), they will exclude enough clubs until number 24 is – guess who?

    Or even better- remember that at the end of this season, TRFC will be in SFL2. In theory, I suppose they will lie in position 31 out of 42 clubs. But it will no doubt be argued forcibly that as of 31 May, all the SFL2 clubs stand equal, since no games will have been played. So they all have to get an invite to the SPL, which then have to be sifted. How about a draw using numbered balls, a velvet bag, and an oven or a fridge? Believe me, these boys at the SFA know how to organise such things.

    Cynical? Yes I am. If I wasn’t cynical 9 months ago, then I am a fully qualified, 24 carat cynic now. Who can have watched the events of the last 9 months unfold without becoming cynical?

    And when this is all done and dusted, please don’t blame Longmuir, Regan or Doncaster. Check out an SPL club near you. The SPL clubs are behind this, all of them. They will try to push blame elsewhere, the governing bodies, other clubs, anyone but themselves, but remember this when the time comes- the SPL clubs, all of them, are the guilty parties behind the biggest fix ever in the history of football.

    I personally will be astonished if TRFC are not in the SPL next season.


  13. So, if I understand this correctly, the WTC confirmed that two players had dual contracts, and no action nor investigation has been taken by the SPL or SFA. Was it to be bundled up with the BTC, or hoped to be forgotten about given all the other shenanigans that abounded?

    It’s bad enough that Scottish clubs don’t have the balls to seek justice for offences that disadvantaged them, but it seems that the European and English opponents don’t seem to care either.

    What a shambles of a game. It is getting to be more like WWF (or whatever its called these days) by the week.

    Scunner Campbell must go!
    Give us our game back!


  14. The 12-12 splitting to 8-8-8 nonsense is just that – nonsense. It didn’t work in Austria and won’t work here.

    This is really very simple. The top league should be 20 teams. The division below that should be 22, or better still split out to new regional leagues with Highland League and Junior teams coming in.

    And before anyone jumps on the implications for Sevco I’m ignoring that totally – I’m just looking at the most sensible structure to get the correct number of games, variety for the fans, no silly splits and fair sharing of wealth amongst the top clubs.


  15. Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence
    So 2 leagues of 12 going to 3×8 after a split looks like being in place for next season.

    Adios Scottish Football, Adios Celtic – I won’t wast my time watching a sham.

    Desmond/Peter/Neil – Unless you speak up pronto, you can kiss goodbye to any further money from my pocket.


  16. I was listening to the radio on the way back from Grantown this afternoon (the bairn was convinced we were going to Spain … Grantown In Spain, that is … after I told him were we weren’t going to Venice, that is … In Venice … Inverness …).

    I was struck that one of the callers who’d just come back from booing his team off the park at Ibrox was intent on informing the panel how much TRFC’s fans were “enjoying the journey” in the lower leagues.

    I think what they mean by “enjoying the journey” is actually “enjoying watching TRFC bang in a few goals every week against non-threatening part-timers”. When results don’t involve a number approaching double figures in their favour, they don’t seem to enjoy it nearly so much – and loyally boo their side off the park.


  17. The WTC involved the use of an offshore tax scheme (DOS) and two players were paid using the scheme from 1999 /2003 Ronald de boer and torre andre flo Ragers accepted that 1.8m was owing in tax due to the use of this scheme
    Between them Flo and De boer played nearly 200 games for the club over 4 yrs the question is .were these offshore payments included in the players contracts lodged with the SFA and has this been looked into by the relevant authorities .


  18. Danish Pastry says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 18:45

    it looks like a nonsense, worst of all because fans don’t want it. Must be one of the few businesses that refuses to make a product that customers actually want!
    ========================================
    This is what I find hard to understand.Are we really to believe that Lawell.Milne.Petrie etc are voting this through on a nod.Stephen Thompson stated that any business that doesn’t listen to the fans is in trouble.
    We’re told that the fans on radio tonight made their feeling known in no uncertain terms,calling for boycotts,protests or whatever.A quick glance at the fans messageboards online should leave the SFA/SPL/SFL clubs in no doubt that their plans are not acceptable to the one group of people they can’t live without.This plan should be dead in the water by the end of this week.It won’t be though.I said on here a couple of days ago that it’ll take more than one single action by fans to get these cretins to realise they’re not going to get their way.Only when fans are staying away regularly whilst continuing to bombard the clubs etc,either online or through the media will the change the fans want be made.
    I see this to include hopefully,a single governing body,and a total clearout of the old guard,especially Regan & Doncaster.Hopefully also,top quality businessmen who know how to market our game,especially wrt media rights.No more penny deals with SKY and a fairer shareof central revenues raised to all clubs


  19. LETS TAKE OOR BAW BACK! (cheers for the support danish pastry)

    let the customers design the league, and make for a fair and sporting league with transparency throughout!

    no more closed doors meetings, put them on the internet for us all to see and to make the officials less inclined to opt for corruption.

    its bloody simple and kills off all the enemies of scottish football in one clear swoop, and could possibly rehabilitate newco.

    if the people who run our game dont want to toe the line and listen to their customers and follow their own rules then lets take the game off them.


  20. angus1983 @ 19:27

    I have to agree with your comments Angus
    The reason they are enjoying their journey, is that every victory, every imagined two fingered salute they deliver to everyone else, feeds and reinforces their supremacist views of themselves
    I was afraid that the followers of whatever took the place of RFC(IL), would be a whole lot worse than before, and it looks like my fears were justified


  21. Harkins brothers getting sevconians all wound up!!!

    Paul Harkins ‏@PaulHarkins88

    Hope Ian black made it to hospital ok after the game today…

    And his brother, the Killie player.

    Gary Harkins ‏@garyharkins1985
    Seen some shocking referees in my time but this joker at Ibrox takes the biscuit!! Not sure black has stopped rolling around though! #fanny


  22. It is no coincidence that this is being rushed through in the middle of the winter break where the fans can’t show their displeasure as there are no games on.
    This putrid pantomime should be brought to an end by deluging each individual clubs email address with protests.


  23. paulsatim says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 20:03
    0 0 Rate This

    Paulsatim,

    Its remarkable that a player who was known for consistently delivering assaults on other players in the SPL is now finding it so difficult to take a hard challenge; he’s already been quoted moaning about tough tackles this year; karma indeed.


  24. Why play 22 meaningless games, why not just start the season in march and play the 14 games that will decide the title. Who is going to pay to watch 22 games that essentially get scrubbed as soon as they are completed. Having only 14 games to decide a title leaves that title much more open influence by honest mistakes, not a position i trust our officials to be involved with.

    I believe the recent proposals are mere posturing in the same way that traynor assured us that sevco would be an SPL club, ie, put out proposals that are deemed as inevitable in an attempt to remove any bampotification that may scupper the hidden agenda ( trfc promotion at the 11th hour ).
    As a scottish football supporter of long standing if somewhat intermittant attendance of late, then i have to register my surprise at not being contacted by Celtic or by the SPL to ask my views on what a future league and governance system reconstruction should include.

    The decision makers have had their chance to influence the game for the betterment of all under an umbrella of transparency and they blew it. No more will we trust these men to control the game with integrity and sporting values as the code that underpins the structure above it, so i say have your meetings in secret, load your proposals with meaningless soundbites ( meritocracy? ) to appease the masses and disregard your customer bases opinion, but i tell you this ( mary doll ) the fans will have their say, the fans will be the catalyst for change, and the fans will move the game forward in the way that we want or we will abandon this polluted and corrupt landscape forever, you will not be allowed to destroy our game and then expect us to prop up your failure with our cash. The governing bodies will be torn asunder until we have installed men of honour that listen to the customers. As a great man once said, football without fans is nothing.


  25. Did anyone else have an extra special New Year because the Hatefest game has gone forever

    I did


  26. thereek says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 17:07

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    I suspect McElroy is a freelancer and not a Herald employee. Doesn’t make a jot of a difference to the Herald’s responsibility to publish. He has previous on Scottish Newsnight. Despicable individual.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Robert McElroy: that freelancer has exactly the same name as the Ibrox historian Robert McElroy (editor of “Rangers Historian” magazine) who has ‘contributed’ several articles to the Herald and Sunday Herald over the years. Someone of the same name appeared a few times on telly as thereek states arguing the ‘Rangers then, etc’ mantra.

    I suspect these Robert McElroys might be related in some way.


  27. Can’t confirm but this has just appeared on Twitter:

    “Reports on FF that part of the roof in the Ibrox main stand concourse collapsed today. Around the 70 minute mark”.


  28. neepheid says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 19:02
    ‘..I personally will be astonished if TRFC are not in the SPL next season..’
    ——
    And I don’t think you would be alone in your astonishment!

    There was a smugness about Longmuir’s sales-patter on Sportsound this afternoon, that suggested to me that he believes that he and the other ‘fixers’ are winning the wider argument about the NATURE of the re-construction.

    There was also, it seemed to me, in his general tone an indication that they are pushing hard to get their way on the TIMING of the introduction of their new structure, with a very evident desire on their part that it could, if everybody just ‘moved on’ compliantly, be called into being next season.

    Having found that their dire predictions of financial Armageddon were exposed as unfounded scaremongering, they learned to throw away the stick and use the carrot.

    They are now positively talking up the game in Scotland, emphasising how wonderful their present Sponsors are, and, by inference, how much more valuable the sponsorship deals will be when the three Footballing organisations present a united front in their bargainings with TV and sponsors.

    They imply, albeit subtly, that that united front will be even more successful in coining in sponsorship and TV revenue- for even more generous distribution to all clubs- IF ONLY TRFC are able to be accommodated in whatever the new top division will be called!

    The silent plea is for clubs to forget all about integrity, and get hold of the golden goose.

    (I found it interesting, incidentally, that Longmuir is the man put up as Sales Manager ( or chief barker of the circus ground that Scottish Football has become).

    Could this be because ,of the three CEOs, he is ( wrongly, in my view) seen to have cleaner hands and a less duplicitous heart than the others?)

    Frankly, I do not believe Longmuir, but I listened to him. I would have switched off the other two immediately.

    Make no mistake about it, their plans will be predicated on them being able to buy the agreement of the leagues to the chosen form of re-structuring, and then design the criteria for selection into the top tier in a way that guarantees a place for TRFC next season.

    I hope that those who so vigorously resisted the stick will equally vigorously reject the poisonous carrot, and will do so for the same fundamental reason: namely, that the long-term future of the sport depends on the principle of sporting integrity, not on quick financial fixes purchased at the expense of truth and even-handedness.


  29. Paul (@007_Rebooted) says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 20:43

    As a comparison, the most players sent off in a season for a club in the EPL is Sunderland with 9. So Vs Rangers are already at that mark after half a season. Just an interesting stat.


  30. As far as I can see from the SFL3 stats, there have been only 22 other red cards in the 90 games played this season. So 28 sent off in 90 games between 10 teams should average to each team getting to play against 10 men roughly 3 times each. RFC* has benefitted from twice as many as average. I realise that teams who are attacking most (hence well clear at the top of the league) will force more fouls that could lead to sendings off – it’s the old ‘why do Manu get more penalties’ argument, but I wonder if there is something in the argument that RFC’s* special refs are prone to penalising the more robust play perhaps seen in SFL3. It’s like british club and international sides moaning about being reffed by foreign officials in European competition, where they don’t allow the physical contact we are used to (or at least used to be!!). Could SFL3 clubs challenge this succesfully, do you think?


  31. john clarke @ 21:09

    I really can’t understand those who think Longmuir is one of the “good guys” in this mess
    Until his member clubs brought him to heel he was an active member of Stooges Inc, as guilty as Regan and Donkey of trying to carve up our game for the benefit of one club
    If he had had his way Sevco would now be in the 1st Division, awaiting promotion to the SPL
    Make no mistake Longmuir was as responsible as the other Stooges for the most corrupt, underhand deals ever foisted on Scottish football
    The man is not to be trusted


  32. Paul (@007_Rebooted) says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 20:43

    Just another coincidence that Black complained about the treatment he and his team mates were getting and lo and behold the sendings off began to rise dramatically. It was just a small dog whistle he used.


  33. WRT league construction, would anyone here be really upset if all they changed in the current set-up was a play-off place in the SPL and a relegation spot in Division Three along with the merging of the governing bodies? Just a thought……


  34. I for one do not believe the new club will be parachuted into the top division next year. Forget who they think they are or were, they are a new team currently sitting at the top of division 3. That is their level. The CEOs of the likes of Morton, Raith Rovers and Stranraer will not sit back and let the newclub be fastracked into the top division.
    If Reconstruction is in place for the beginning of next season, it will however accelerate their climb to the top one season sooner. Depending on how they perform.


  35. Im a law abiding,hard working and tax paying member of society who loves the beautiful game. Direct action to any problem has only been a choice of last resort but if my club and thenational associations stands for Sevco being shoe horned into any new top division,well the game is up,kaput finished. No more season tickets,no more supporting the national team or buying the younger members of the clan replica kits. I will ignore Scottish football and God forbid find other interest,it would break my heart but if my club allow this and dont fight this abomination it will be all over for me,a stacked deck isn`t acceptable any longer, its time to put up or shut up Scottish football in general and my club in particular,rant over goodnight!


  36. And anyway who needs playoffs / splits to win the league, none of the best leagues in the world have them, why the obsession here.


  37. 5 Jan 2013, 09:05 PM

    Arsene Parcelie5 Jan 2013, 07:14 PM

    AP that is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen ob KDS, I am genuinely holding my sides here and had the kids run into the room to see wtf I’m hysterical about – absolute genius!


  38. Who needs league reconstruction? – Elgin City most Gallant today – they deserve not a few plaudits


  39. Posted Today, 08:51 PM

    Get out of Scotland, we have won everything this poxy country has to offer. Lets try a European league. Taken from r,m they really are a scary breed


  40. liveinhop @ 22:22

    If the rest of us were lucky enough, and they did manage to get out of Scotland, they would disappear into oblivion in short order
    They wouldn’t be able to survive without the help they get in this country, and they would soon find that a level playing field would be just that


  41. Electronic Tims ‏@ETimsNet

    BDO confirms Rangers are dead. The business, the club, the whole stinking mess. Bye Bye. http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/issues/27190/notices/44 …

    5m G M McLean G M McLean ‏@GMMcLean

    @ETimsNet It explicitly doesn’t say, “Er, that’s just the company, not the actual club.” It says “CLUB” in letters a mile high in my mind.


  42. McCoist seems to think that his team needs a break.
    Eight red cards, several penalties and disallowed goals …… they are getting plenty of breaks already!


  43. Torrejohnbhoy
    Oh dear ,I do hope the edinburgh gazette insurance policy is up to date .
    Of course we already knew this but do you think it’s ok for the gullible to be told .


  44. jonnyod says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 22:42

    Torrejohnbhoy
    Oh dear ,I do hope the edinburgh gazette insurance policy is up to date .
    Of course we already knew this but do you think it’s ok for the gullible to be told .
    ================================================
    They’ll just say it’s crap.They’ve got share certificates that say it’s the same club :mrgreen:


  45. Like it or not, the traditional, perhaps obligatory, tone of an obituary is one of respect and, if anything, there is fawning rather than criticism.

    Others columnists and commentators may be less flattering in their reflection, of course.

    The Herald editor should fall on his sword for allowing that obit. to be published.


  46. Just happened to notice that on 20 December 2012 Malcolm Murray ceased to be a director in The Rangers Football Club Ltd which he had been chairman of. This was the day after Rangers International Football Club Plc was admitted to the AIM Market.

    According to Companies House records there are now only three directors of The Rangers Football Club Ltd which was formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd – incorporated on 29/05/12 with Charles Green as sole director and subscriber shareholder with 2 x ÂŁ1 shares.

    On 29/06/12 Malcolm Murray, Imran Ahmad and Brian Stockbridge joined as directors and on 31/07/12 Sevco Scotland Ltd changed its name to The Rangers Football Club Ltd.

    Imran Ahmad is still shown as MD of Zeus Capital on the company website although he is also employed as Commercial Director of The Rangers Football Club Ltd with a ÂŁ350,000 salary plus expenses and a bonus based on commercial contracts negotiated by him.

    Brian Stockbridge was formerly a director of Zeus Capital which became involved with Rangers in February 2012 when Imran Ahmad, according to one telling of the story, involved Charles Green in putting together a consortium of shareholders to fund a buyout of various Rangers assets from the Administrators.


  47. Torrejohnboy at 22:34
    At the risk of another 70+ TD’s for me….it really is wishful thinking to believe that Rangers are deid. Yes, legally, we can argue that the company and club are deid – that is true. However, the reality is that there is still a sporting entity operating from a stadium called Ibrox with the name RANGERS in six foot high letters in the brickwork. The sportsmen still wear blue and 50000 of their supporters turn up to watch them. So, spiritually and culturally, Rangers are not deid.

    To avoid another flurry of TD’s I’ll make it clear I am not a Sevco apologist – I support Aberdeen, so no love lost there. However, I am a realist! Again, I’ll reiterate that if TRFC / Sevco wish to be seen as the same club as old Rangers then they must accept the tribunal punishment coming their way. We, as the bampots, must make sure our club Chairmen are clear that a significant punishment for TRFC/Sevco is all we expect, and will accept: 10 year ban, titles stripped and a huge fine (at least ÂŁ10M).

    Thanks to the other posters who elaborated on this subject over the last few days.


  48. borussiabeefburg says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 20:33
    10 0
    Rate This

    thereek says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 17:07
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    I suspect McElroy is a freelancer and not a Herald employee. Doesn’t make a jot of a difference to the Herald’s responsibility to publish. He has previous on Scottish Newsnight. Despicable individual.

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Robert McElroy: that freelancer has exactly the same name as the Ibrox historian Robert McElroy (editor of “Rangers Historian” magazine) who has ‘contributed’ several articles to the Herald and Sunday Herald over the years. Someone of the same name appeared a few times on telly as thereek states arguing the ‘Rangers then, etc’ mantra.

    I suspect these Robert McElroys might be related in some way.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Let me assure you borussia – sorry for any irony – this is one in the same guy. The repeated use of his material by the Herald titles reflects badly on that rag.


  49. I thought Longmuir spoke well today. Quite worrying because a) I don’t trust him and b) Chick Young thought so, too. Notice how Chick asked the awkward Rangers question (accelerated promotion) then went on to praise Longmuir as being very credible? Makes me all more suspicious that this was orchestrated. Longmuir added his name to the list of those declaring they want to “move on” (an admission of guilt, in my book). Sadly, the talk got onto money and income for clubs under the different proposals, sponsorship, tv etc, etc. All relevant but not, I sense, what the fans are most concerned about. The SPL was founded on greed, not competition, so let’s not repeat the mistake that has helped lead to the failure of Rangers and near failure of others.

    Anyway, I’ve said before that whatever they come up with will be an irrelevance as those in charge have shown they cannot be trusted to make major decisions in the best interests of the sport. What are we watching this season if they change the plans half way through? They won’t make the decision alone so the clubs are again complicit if they sanction the ideology of our glorious leaders. The bold Turnbull seems sold on the idea so if he can work with “corrupt” people, who is going to put a stop to this so that the fans get what they want? It can only be the fans.

    On the obituary matter, I suspect the real author is more likely to be a new Ibrox employee.


  50. Can anyone shed any light on this conversation on Twitter?

    Daniel O’Connell ‏@DanielOConnel18
    Did, or have, Sevco applied to court for leave to use Rangers’ name?
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
    1h Henry Clarson ‏@HenryClarson
    @DanielOConnel18 Not as far as I can see.
    Expand
    56m Daniel O’Connell ‏@DanielOConnel18
    @HenryClarson They have 7 days from date RFC went into liquidation to apply and leave must be granted within 6 weeks, if Form 4.73 not sent


  51. Ecobhoy, I tweeted earlier tonight asking if a new chairman had been appointed following Malcolm Murray’s departure. I may have missed it but did think it weird that there was no announcement at the time that he’d left. Has it been discussed on this forum? Has there been discussion elsewhere about him being dismissed? Has he been replaced?


  52. ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 23:12

    According to Companies House records there are now only three directors of The Rangers Football Club Ltd which was formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd – incorporated on 29/05/12 with Charles Green as sole director and subscriber shareholder with 2 x £1 shares.
    On 29/06/12 Malcolm Murray, Imran Ahmad and Brian Stockbridge joined as directors and on 31/07/12 Sevco Scotland Ltd changed its name to The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Thats interesting
    Lets suppose the Spivs on the RIFC Board decide to milk TRFC by changing inter co charges to the detriment of TRFC and the benefit of some recently formed 3rd party Spiv co
    eg “The Milkers Paradise ltd”

    The first step is to seek approval by the RIFC Board on which the Spivs have a clear majority in terms of members and % shareholding
    So that decision gets passed
    The next step is to secure the approval of the TRFC Board which is composed of 3 Spivs
    So that decision gets passed

    Its great having holding co of a holding co of an ethereal “club” that has no voice because it lives in the spirit world

    You can do what you want

    which is exactly what the Spivs will do

    Meanwhile both the Gullible and the Bampots are focussing on totally irelevant issues to do with winning the 3rd div and reconstruction of the SFA

    what a wheeze


  53. M8 Dreamer

    Once again, we have witnessed the abuse by the MSM Media today with the Obituary in The Herald to the late Hugh Adam who has had his character assisinated by the fully compliant SDM Media circus.

    How much longer are the football public in Scotland going to suffer this continued miscarriage of the truth on behalf of someone who is almost certainly at least 99% responsible for all the financial misdemeanours of Rangers Football Club (Deceased)

    For the sake of Scottish Football it would just be better for all concerned if everyone connected with the conspiracy and corruption of Rangers Football Club (Deceased) would receive their just deserts and be removed from any further involvement in Scottish Football.


  54. WRT to LNS investigation.

    Is it LNS brief to investigate then forward his report to SPL/SFA for “sentencing”?

    Or. Does LNS investigate and he decides on sentence, if guilty, of course?

    Or. If, after his inquiry, RFC (IL) are found guilty, does/can LNS recommend a suitable punishment?

    If RFC are found guilty then the rewriting of SFA/SPL historic records should be a given. A team entered these competitions, broke the rules and won trophies unfairly. This is NOT a punishment. The record gets amended. It is NOT title stripping. The players can keep their baubles for their grandchildren if they want to. Completely up to them.

    LNS/SFA/SPL should then aim the financial punishment at CG. If he refuses it on the grounds that RFC were the guilty party, then that is an admission that one is not the other. If CG wants to insist that his organisation is the same one that was born circa 1872 then he has to pay that particular piper.

    This could even be used as a get-out clause by the SFA. This could allow them to escape from CG’s clutches. An opportunity to reclaim some of their moral authority

    “The blue team are guilty, take that”

    “Wisnae us, wis thaim. They pay it”

    “OK. Sign here then. Yooz urr a new club, is that wit yer tellin us?”

    “Naw but…….”

    “What’s it to be?”

    We all know that a fine cannot be levied against an organisation that has been liquidated so fine the one that claims to be it’s clone. CG will be forced to admit to talking bolleax or pay up. He either loses the fans or he loses money. His choice.

    Upshot is, we get the records straightened out and the Newco/Oldco argument sorted.

    I for one, could live with that.

    CG could, of course, opt for C of S again but SFA/EUFA will hammer him.

    Cannot get away with it twice.

    Can he?


  55. goosygoosy says:

    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 20:20(Edit)

    Did anyone else have an extra special New Year because the Hatefest game has gone forever

    I did
    ____________________________________________________________

    A seriously under-rated by-product of the ‘gers-less SPL. I’m pretty certain that the benefits are recognised by decent fans of all clubs all over the country, but particularly the decent fans of Celtic and Rangers.

    There’s always another side to the coin though. A friend of mine, the landlord of a “Sellik-mided” pub in Fife, is praying for the return of the Celtic-Rangers match. He reckons he’s lost around ÂŁ15000 already because that’s what he takes in over the counter when the Hatefest, as you put it takes place.

    He has no truck with sporting integrity at all. Understandably; as his first priority is not the health of the sport 🙂


  56. torrejohnbhoy says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 18:57

    Apologies for the similarity.

    Catching up and hadn’t reached this far when I posted my last comment.

    However. Methinks TJB has his tongue placed firmly in his cheek. 😀

    Ah wisnae kiddin’!


  57. j

    ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 23:12
    ‘.Just happened to notice that on 20 December 2012 Malcolm Murray ceased to be a director in The Rangers Football Club Ltd which he had been chairman of. ‘
    —-
    Well spotted.

    How simple and naive the rest of us must be, not to fully understand the extent to which all the people involved in financial chicanery -from cabinet ministers through struck-off pornographer lawyers- to deceitful and devious people in the football world- play us all for suckers!

    The chopping and changing of ‘directors’ of dodgy companies, the re-registrations, the multiple registrations of changes of name, the whole bloody bag of deceit and legal fictions that enables some of the most despicable of human beings( worse even than obituary writers for the Herald) to rip us all off while they profit!

    Ceasing to be a director of a club of which one has been chairman will, of course, have been accompanied by a very consoling financial reward for being a good player in the grand scheme of things.

    (And, by the way, on yesterday’s Sportsound Special,Stuart Cosgrove’s demolition of Chick’s defence of CG (on the grounds that he was successful in making money out of his new club’s fans), and his general reminder of some of the fundamental truths, was brilliant.

    And, to be scrupulously fair-as is my wont!- Kenny Mcintyre and the producer – did not resort to the bullying tactic of ‘Your Call’ of arbitrarily cutting off comment, but allowed decent opportunity for many-sided comment, although , I have to say, Kenny had some little difficulty in remaining entirely emotionally neutral.


  58. TSFM says:
    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 01:39

    Must be a large Pub, or very expensive for a pint ! 🙂


  59. Palacio67 says:

    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 01:55

    TSFM says:
    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 01:39

    Must be a large Pub, or very expensive for a pint !

    Must be the same pub that Campbell Ogilvie frequents on his legnedary “good nights out”!


  60. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 00:29
    0 0 Rate This
    Can anyone shed any light on this conversation on Twitter?

    Daniel O’Connell ‏@DanielOConnel18
    Did, or have, Sevco applied to court for leave to use Rangers’ name?
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
    1h Henry Clarson ‏@HenryClarson
    @DanielOConnel18 Not as far as I can see.
    Expand
    56m Daniel O’Connell ‏@DanielOConnel18
    @HenryClarson They have 7 days from date RFC went into liquidation to apply and leave must be granted within 6 weeks, if Form 4.73 not sent
    ================================
    The use of a prohibited name by an ex-director (or someone acting as a director) of a company in liquidation is a criminal offence.

    Essentially, what this means is – for a period of 5 years – Sevco’s Rangers (or its new holding company) should not have as a director, anyone who was a director (or acting as a director) of Rangers in the year prior to it entering the liquidation process.

    As far as I can tell under the present circumstances, the only possible question here is whether or not Mr Green could be considered to have been a de facto director of [the original] Rangers during the relevant 12 month period. This question arises because Mr Green (and D&P) did give the impression he was able to exercise substantial negotiating responsibilities with the SFA and SPL (re the 5-way agreement) on behalf of [the original] Rangers. In normal circumstances, such negotiations could only have been carried out by a club chairman or one of its executive directors.

    Depending on what information D&P have provided – and how satisfied they are with the circumstances as described – it is certainly possible that Mr Green will be asked by BDO staff to explain his role with [the original] Rangers more fully.

    It is unlikely, I think – even if there was an offence (under section 216 of the Insolvency Act) – Sevco would be forced to stop using the Rangers brand name: as long as the guilty party resigned or was removed from the board(s).

    If someone was found to have been acting for both Rangers and Sevco simultaneously, it could be viewed, by the liquidators, that the sale of assets was conducted when a (de facto) director had a clear conflict of interest. In such circumstances, BDO may feel more disposed to level an accusation of gratuitous alienation in respect of the sale of assets. If D&P’s conduct during the Rangers administration is subsequently seriously criticised by its professional body, it may be extremely difficult for Sevco to show that a fair value for Rangers assets was paid.

    For the sake of clarity, I have no particular information on the precise role Mr Green undertook with Rangers in the process of negotiating the 5-way agreement, and am certainly not suggesting that he or anyone else is guilty of a criminal act.


  61. The share certificate for RIFC which has been posted on twitter by TBK is very interesting.
    As well as saying its a 1p share, it has three references to a football club in it – Rangers International Football Club plc, owner of The Rangers Football Club, but it also has a Rangers Football Club logo.

    Others have commented on the TRFC founding date as not being accurate – can’t be legal, surely? Alternatively it would seem to be a risky bit of business when phoenixing is considered.

    Just how many rangers are there now? And is this to make sure that at least one will survive when one or more of the holding companies go bust?

    Other wee comments on tonight’s comments – Whullie, the SFA will allow CG to do anything, and wouldn’t it be interesting if the rumours of roof collapses at Ibrox will mean restricted numbers for a while. Oops, should have kept the maintenance going, Chuck.

    Other tweets tonight raise the question of whether Chuck needed permission from the courts to use the name Rangers, and if he sought that permission. Maybe the spivs aren’t all that good at the paperwork stuff after all.

    Maybe instead of three rangers there may not be any in a wee while.


  62. I’m not holding my breath for either a reply or, more importantly, for the editor to apologise to the Adam family

    The Editor
    The Herald

    5th January 2013

    Dear Sir,

    In today’s edition of the Herald you sanctioned an article relating to the late Hugh Adam, former director of Rangers F.C.

    I have never read such a disgusting tribute in all my life. You, as editor, must be ashamed of yourself for allowing the reputation of the Herald to be blackened by such an unwarrented attack on a fine man.

    I sincerely hope and trust that you will now have the humility and decency to write to Mr Adam’s widow and apologise for the hurt that your newspaper has caused her and the whole Adam family.

    Sadly, the Herald’s standard of football reporting has plummeted to the level of the (not so popular) tabloids. There is now no impartial or investigative journalism and your sports correspondents seem only capable of reproducing club PR press releases.

    Regardless of whether you take my advice or not, I will not, repeat NOT, be buying the Herald in future. You have only yourself to blame for accepting the quality of your journalists, be they staff or free-lance, that are now driving such lifelong readers away.

    Yours faithfully,


  63. Palacio67 says:

    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 01:55(Edit)

    TSFM says:
    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 01:39

    Must be a large Pub, or very expensive for a pint !
    _______________________________________________________________

    Not at all large – nor particularly expensive. Not good at guessing capacities, but I’d say it was on the small side (squeeze 150 into both bar and lounge at a push?)

    The five grand figure is an all-day figure of course, but the traffic is all down to the match and its aftermath.


  64. Paul (@007_Rebooted) says:
    Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 20:43

    league (19 games played)
    05/01 – vs Elgin – 1 red card
    29/12 – vs Queens Park – 1 red card
    08/12 – vs Stirling – 1 red card
    17/11 – vs East Stirlingshire – 1 red
    28/10 – vs Clyde – 1 red
    20/10 – vs Queens Park – 1 red

    Scottish cup (4 games)
    3/11 – vs Alloa – 1 red
    29/9 – vs Forres Mechanics – 1 red

    Scottish Communities Cup
    18/9 – vs Queen of the South – 1 red
    ———————————————–

    Interesting stuff Paul.

    I followed up your research with a “wee nosey aboot” myself. I just wondered…….

    The following were the referees in those matches (in the same order as you posted)

    John Beaton.
    Wullie Collum.
    Mike Tumilty.
    George Salmond.
    Alan Muir.
    John Beaton.

    Ian Brines.
    Crawford Allen.

    Steve O’Reilly.

    It doesn’t expose any one ref as having Sevco tendencies.

    It does however, display that “honest mistake syndrome” is highly contagious and is reaching epidemic proportions within the refereeing community. 😀

    In fairness,I also have to note that the tendency to suggest that T’Rangers are constantly playing against 10 men is wide of the mark here. In the Queen of the South game, big Kevin Kyle was awarded first use of the soap before QotS went down to ten men.
    The match report did stress though, that “Kyle looked bemused at the decision”.


  65. whullie says:
    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 03:01

    How many of these refs are grade 1?

    John Beaton.
    Wullie Collum.
    Mike Tumilty.
    George Salmond.
    Alan Muir.
    John Beaton.

    Ian Brines.
    Crawford Allen.

    Steve O’Reilly.

    How many have handled any matches in the lower leagues NOT involving sevco ?


  66. eg “The Milkers Paradise ltd”

    Sooooooooooperb !!


  67. john clarke says:

    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 01:55

    (And, by the way, on yesterday’s Sportsound Special,Stuart Cosgrove’s demolition of Chick’s defence of CG (on the grounds that he was successful in making money out of his new club’s fans), and his general reminder of some of the fundamental truths, was brilliant.

    And, to be scrupulously fair-as is my wont!- Kenny Mcintyre and the producer – did not resort to the bullying tactic of ‘Your Call’ of arbitrarily cutting off comment, but allowed decent opportunity for many-sided comment, although , I have to say, Kenny had some little difficulty in remaining entirely emotionally neutral.

    =======================================================================
    John

    Must agree and surprised it took longer to acknowledge our fellow bampot’s spectacular job of ripping Chick Young a new one.

    Chick can hold whatever views he wants and put them across in the media but at last there is someone getting the chance to ask awkward questions and put across views that many of us have with, may I say, more eloquence than your average phone in caller.

    While Mr Cosgrove presents a football related show on the BBC, there is no doubt that he is still a fan of his club and Scottish Football in general. Given he has day job then, like all other fans, he has no reliance on the Scottish Football establishment for his income or livlihood.To be fair to those employed to report on football, Mr Cosgrove also beneifts from not having to suck up to owners, chairmen, directors, managers or players to get next weeks story (and associated pay packet).

    Until some football reporters in the MSM grow a pair or the likes of Daly and Thompson do more investigative work, then we will have to rely Mr Cosgrove to keep fighting the good fight.

    As John Clarke says, the general shift to a less patronising show and a more balanced discussions on a Saturday evening is welcomed.

    If you are checking in Stuart – keep up the good work – it is appreciated.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01px4h6/Sportsound_Extra_05_01_2013/


  68. HirsutePursuit says:
    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 02:30

    the only possible question here is whether or not Mr Green could be considered to have been a de facto director of [the original] Rangers during the relevant 12 month period. This question arises because Mr Green (and D&P) did give the impression he was able to exercise substantial negotiating responsibilities with the SFA and SPL (re the 5-way agreement) on behalf of [the original] Rangers. In normal circumstances, such negotiations could only have been carried out by a club chairman or one of its executive directors.
    ======================================================================

    ecobhoy says:
    I posted more fully on the 5-way agreement @ Monday, December 31, 2012 at 13:37 and have repeated some of the comments here.

    According to the Rangers flotation Prospectus: ‘TRFCL also agreed to release the SFA, SPL and SFL and their directors and officers from all claims connected with their conduct, the registration embargo and the obligations under the 5 Way Agreement’.

    We don’t know what the ‘conduct’ of SFA, SPL & SFL directors and officers was that required a ‘get out of jail card free’ from newco Rangers. Is the ‘conduct’ issue aimed at individual personal behaviour or is there fear that implementation of the registration embargo or obligations under the 5-Way Agreement rest on shaky legal foundations.

    Even more curious is another Prospectus comment that: ‘TRFCL agreed to procure that its directors and officers will not commence any proceedings in this connection’.

    I am left puzzled as to why directors and officers of TRFCL would take legal action against the SFA, SPL, SFL or their directors or officers when TRFCL as a company had already decided against taking action.

    Surely the 5-Way Agreement was of such enormous importance to TRFCL that it would have been discussed and decided upon at board level and minuted along with any resolution.

    If it wasn’t, then on whose authority was TRFCL legally bound to the 5-Way Agreement. It also begs the question, has TRFCL actually ‘procured’ the agreement of its directors and officers not to take legal action or does that still hang like a Sword of Damocles?

    When the 5-Way Agreement discussions were taking place in the run-up to 27 July I remember being surprised with the seemingly leading role played by Ally McCoist and I had difficulty in understanding why the SFA, SPL and SFA were prepared to sit down to discuss and hammer-out such a vital agreement with a Sevco employee who was neither a director nor officer of the company.

    So who represented Rangers in negotiations and who signed the actual agreement with the SFA, SPL and SFA? If it was McCoist he would need to have been given this power by Sevco Scotland Ltd and the three bodies would need to be satisfied that he had been given this power by Sevco. The only way to determine this is to see the relevant Sevco board minutes and resolutions or have sight of the agreement and see who actually signed it, their capacity and the name of the company they represented.

    And perhaps herein lies the problem with the 5-way Agreement. If the company that signed it on 27/07/12 was TRFCL would that have been legal as Sevco didn’t become TRFCL until 4 days later. if it was (The) Rangers Football Club did that ‘entity’ have the legal capacity to be a party to the 5-way Agreement. I have often wondered whether this has a bearing on the LNS argument about the ‘enduring’ club mechanism allowing penalties to be transferred from a defunct holding company to a new holding company.

    UNDERNOTE

    As there could be several drafts of the 5-Way Agreement the one that TRFCL apparently entered into was dated 27 July 2012. D&P, the Administrators of RFC 2012 Plc, disclaimed all liability in relation to the 5 Way Agreement.

    On 27 July 2012 the directors of Sevco Scotland Ltd were: Malcolm Murray, Brian Stockbridge, Imran Ahmad and Charles Green. The company changed it name to ‘The Rangers Football Club Ltd’ on 31 July 2012. Malcolm Murray resigned as a director of TRFC on 20 December 2012.


  69. Captain Haddock says:
    Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 02:36

    The share certificate for RIFC which has been posted on twitter by TBK is very interesting.
    As well as saying its a 1p share, it has three references to a football club in it – Rangers International Football Club plc, owner of The Rangers Football Club, but it also has a Rangers Football Club logo.

    Just how many rangers are there now? And is this to make sure that at least one will survive when one or more of the holding companies go bust?

    Maybe instead of three rangers there may not be any in a wee while.
    ————————————–
    Three Glasgow Rangers
    There’s only three Glasgow Rangers
    Three Glasgow Ran-gers
    etc

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