I must admit I am surprised that nothing has been done about the TRFC party guys. It is especially puzzling that other clubs who have had games cancelled and players suspended as a consequence of breaches haven’t pointed out the apparent lack of consistency.
In August of last year, following a non-socially-distanced night out after an Aberdeen v Rangers game, eight Aberdeen players were banned for three games by an SFA-convened independent panel.
Jonny Hayes, Mikey Devlin, Scott McKenna, Matty Kennedy, Sam Cosgrove, Dylan McGeouch, Craig Bryson and Bruce Anderson were accused of breaking public health guidelines when they visited an Aberdeen pub on August 1.
Celtic defender Boli Bolingoli, who had made a midweek three-day trip to Spain for some R&R faced the same charges
The panel held hearings before ruling that the players had broken the rules and delivered a three match suspension to each of the eight Aberdeen players, suspended in lieu of similar breaches until February 28, 2021.
In Bolingoli’s case, a five game ban was delivered with only two of those suspended until February.
Bolingoli was of course disciplined by Celtic before being sent out on loan, his Celtic career seemingly finished as a consequence, whilst the Aberdeen players were also disciplined by their club.
Both Aberdeen and Celtic were also subjected to damaging match cancellations as a consequence of both incidents.
On February 14, Police were called to an unlawful house party and handed out fixed penalty notices for breach of Covid regulations to Rangers players Bongani Zungu, Nathan Patterson, Calvin Bassey, Dapo Mebude, and Brian Kinnear. Rangers say they have disciplined the players, but the SFA have yet to say anything, fourteen days after the incident.
No match bans, no game cancellations.
The lack of comment in the media is not surprising since everyone in the MSM lives in terror of TRFC reprisal and behaves accordingly.
In fact, a quick Google search on the matter yields nothing after 17th February, suggesting that an Ibrox D-Notice has been issued and obediently complied with by the MSM. Of course one must always guard against cognitive bias in these matters. None of us are completely free of it, and are afflicted to some extent, but by any subjective measure that I can see, the MSM opprobrium directed (quite correctly) at Bolingoli and the Dons’ players, and the storm of publicity surrounding those earlier incidents is absent in the case of the TRFC five.
Even the Scottish Government’s response appears to have treated the TRFC breach with the equivalent of a raised eyebrow, in comparison to the angrily pointed finger at Aberdeen and Celtic (and subsequently with Celtic after the Dubai farce).
Consider today the yellow card. The next time it will be the red card because you will leave us with absolutely no choice
Nicola Sturgeon (after the Aberdeen/Boligoli incidents)
I say this as someone who has never agreed with those who alleged that Alex Salmond tried to help The Old Club with the tax bodies, believing the government’s actions at the time to have been nothing more than what would be expected of them – to express a wish that a resolution could be found – but not putting pressure on HMRC as was alleged.
However, as any schoolteacher will tell you, if you threaten discipline against a recalcitrant pupil, you bloody well MUST carry the threat out – or face the immediate and irretrievable loss of credibility. I’m sure Nicola Sturgeon is as well aware as anyone that a second yellow card is in fact a red.
So yes, the MSM silence is not surprising, and government indecision is not altogether a new thing, but the lack of reaction from other clubs – even the fans of other clubs – is very puzzling.
That is maybe the only thing that makes me doubt (slightly) that there is some serious and deliberate “inconsistency” afoot.
It is this type of beahaviour by the authorities and the media that led us to the brink of Armageddon in 2012.
If it can’t be changed, then those of us who have been constantly warning that a repeat is inevitable, will be saying “told you so” in the not too distant future.
If a level playing field is too much to ask for, then the implications for the sport, and society are many and serious.
Anyone else puzzled why the five players from Rangers who breached covid rules have had no action taken against them by the SFA? In all other cases, including the previous two from Ibrox, action was taken to issue suspensions fairly quickly, yet these players are already back in the fold as if nothing happened. The fact the media and the Scottish Government have not condemned Rangers for the immorality of that is no surprise at all. Their anger is reserved for other clubs.
There is a constant moan from both sets of fans of “he can only score against so & so” ..Is there a statistics form or info available that can display who, say, Morelos or Edouard garner their goals against in league play, shows the importance of said goal, i.e, winner, tying goal, penalty..I think most fans might be surprised at the outcome..
While I voted to return to the original set up of the site I miss the banter especially for ones chosen team. The new set up was too open to abuse but I think a half way house might be well received. How do other members feel?
Upthehoops 27th February 2021 At 14:01
‘..Anyone else puzzled why the five players from Rangers who breached covid rules have had no action taken against them by the SFA?..’
“””””””””””””””””
Mrs C asked me this very afternoon what punishment had been meted out to the party-going 5.
“My dear”, I replied, “have you been with me since forever and still do not understand? The ‘rules’ simply do not apply to TRFC any more than they did to RFC plc. Not just ‘football rules’, but the rules governing the BBC and the SMSM generally in relation to the concepts of impartiality and truth.”
” Whit?”[there’s a wee private joke between us there about my speech] she cried in alarm ” Are you saying that there is any kind of suggestion that the SFA is “tainted with apparent bias”, [a phrase she had picked up from Lord Pentland in one of his [unconnected with football] recent judgments.]
“Sadly, my dear ” replied I, ” the track record of the Governance body of Scottish Football suggests that that indeed is the case”
” Oh, John”, she cried in horror, ” you cannot be serious! Surely you are mistaken?”
” Whit?” replies I ,” Have you not wondered whit the hell has oftimes kept me at this flaming keyboard late into the night in spite of hearing your enticing calls of ‘come to bed?’
But of course you are absolutely right, uth.
The SFA is a failed ‘institution’, incapable of any kind of proper governance because it has lied, and continues to lie ,and the liars cannot agree among themselves because each individual knows that every other individual who lied along with him cannot now be trusted not to lie to him!
As said before , a fish rots from the head.
And the SFA rotted in 2012, with the SMSM’s wholehearted participation and support.
May every one of the liars not rest as easily in their beds this very night as I go!
It’s a strange one. It’s also worth pointing out that in November last year Jordan Jones and George Edmundson attended a party after Rangers played Killie and they were heavily criticised by the club. They also received 7 game bans from the SFA and Rangers then sent them out on loan.
On this occasion the lack of any punishment is baffling to me. I read a vomit inducing article in, I think the DR, where the players apologies were reproduced and the general tone was one of sympathy for young lads making a mistake. I’m afraid too much has happened for people not to know the rules now.
I’m quite taken by the new look folks. Not fishing for compliments, but I think it looks quite sleek. The new mobile theme is also looking good.
There is also a ten minute timer which engages on all comments, so you have a bit of time to edit any typos – or rashly chosen words 🙂
If anyone has any technical difficulties with either PC-based or phone-based access, please let me know by email
sfm@sfm.scot
Incredibleadamspark
Yes, I should have mentioned the Jones/Edmundson situation – although the FM was untypically silent on that one from memory?. Why it is all the more puzzling of course, because there is a glaring differential in the treatment of players involved in the same club.
The cynic in me says that the MSM were green-lighted on those two, who were perhaps just daft enough to give an excuse to an employer who already deemed them costly surplus to requirement liabilities.
I am sure you won’t agree with me, but I am leaning very heavily on the pandering angle – both by the authorities and the MSM.
I can’t believe that no punishment has been meted out and there is such silence from clubs and fans who should be crying out for consistency. When TRFC announced that the players had apologised; were back in the squad and that was the end of it, I tried to contact the SFA through their website as I have done on numerous issues in the past. I cannot find any way of contacting them. I’ll keep looking, but if anyone has a way to do so, please share it….and please ask them the question too.
It’s interesting, BP, that apart from Incredible Adams Park (who has to my knowledge always been fair and unbiased on here – like Dark Before Dawn, generally) none of the other regular TRFC-minded posters have chosen to contribute to this thread and previous ones where the breach was raised. The usual 3 from the discontinued forum (Albertz11, the Oban one and Cameron-whatever) choose only to comment whenever Rangers/protetantism is seen by others to be in the wrong – I had to laugh when Albertz11 jumped in to harangue Boab16 for pointing out the Covid/Ian Paisley issue.
That approach is precisely the reason I have disagreed with BP’s wish to grow the membership here to an all fans approach so as to increase the numbers against corruption. I want people alongside us who will fight corruption no matter who benefits from it. I don’t want those guys fighting against the SFA because I know they’ll drop the fight as soon as any corruption suits Rangers/TRFC. It is typical of their broader fan base (hate Alan McGregor (“the Rat”, remember!) for walking away but now that he is in good form helping them win the league, all is fine; Nathan Patterson ‘should never play for the club again’, but when he scores after his early recall, “That’s the way to get it up them, son!”). They pick and choose what they want to fight for/against, but have no principles which they will stand. I recall on SFM and elsewhere how vehement they all were re the Bolingoli or Dubai incidents, but silence now is no surprise. At least, CFC fans largely agree that both these incidents were stupid; wrong; dangerous and punishable. I don’t believe they would have been glad to have got off with it, whereas TRFC fans are delighted about the inconsistency. That is why I don’t want the 3 above, Lawman, Steerpike etc here to fight corruption alongside us.
I realise this could get deleted/get me banned, but the silence on here re the breach is just the latest example of how they view the world. It’s not about silencing anyone or creating an echo chamber – it’s about having people alongside me who are genuinely anti-corruption in an non-partisan manner.
Nawlite,
I don’t disagree at all with the tenor of your sentiment, however your core theme reminds me that we lost some credibility as an anti-corruption platform when we were not taking seriously the concerns of the Jambo contingent on here when their club was at the pointy end of the self-interest stick last year.
Sadly, EasyJambo and AllyJambo, two individuals whom I regard (through my association with them on this blog) as friends, and for whom I have the greatest regard, have been lost to us.
A great pity in my opinion.
Big Pink, the pandering angle by the authorities doesn’t make any sense to me. There has been punishment of their players before and I did read the SFA was investigating the incident and the compliance officer was gathering information (no laughing at the back….) so perhaps punishment will be on the way. Why pander now on this issue when they haven’t in the past?
The FM, like most politicians, will take their cue from the level of media outrage on a particular subject. The lack of media outrage is a debate that fuels these pages and I’m not sure if a general consensus will ever be reached. Conspiracy, economics, favouritism or Sectarianism…. take your pick.
Oh, and the new look to the site is excellent. Nice work.
BP, I too am sad about the loss of the Hearts guys, but to be honest I didn’t see anyone on here disagreeing with them or failing to support them. I wasn’t conscious of anyone arguing that the season should be finished so that CFC could win the title or so that Hearts, Thistle etc would be relegated. As far as I was aware, any CFC fans wanted the league to be concluded as they believed their team would only have extended their lead given TRFC’s form.
The only disagreement (fomented more by the usual TRFC fans) was the idea that the season should be null and void and certainly CFC fans didn’t want that, but neither did EJ or AJ so far as I can recall. My memory of it is that EJ, AJ and, indeed, Hearts were happy for the league to be called early but wanted structural change which would result in no relegation and I felt the forum was largely supportive of that. I am sorry and disappointed that when that was rejected by the clubs/authorities, EJ and AJ decided to stop contributing.
That brings me to my other issue with the site as it stands – our lack of voice/ability to campaign or pressurise. I realise this will go against what I said about not wanting (some) TRFC fans on here, but I do accept that our small numbers mean that, in essence, this is not much more than a site that gives a small number of people a chance to moan about stuff. Sorry, but I’m being honest. When SFM was first set up and we had the meeting at McDiarmid Park, it felt like perhaps it could be the start of a groundswell, but we have never worked out how to grow or use our voice and I’m not sure how we can.
The SFSA and Supporters Direct have the numbers but don’t appear to have a campaigning/pressurising stance so for the moment there is no one representing the views of anti-corruption football supporters. I wonder how it would go if we took a more overtly anti-ALL-corruption stance and sold the forum on that.
If Scottish football were a confection it would be a Curleywurley but bitter not sweet.
Sustained by a media who drink from the same bitter trough, have had evidence of wrong doing served on a plate but have looked elsewhere as they feed off the crumbs of corruption.
Given Celtic accepted a 5 Way Agreement that to all intents and purposes has turned the industry into a franchise and it’s Celtic’s turn to step aside lest the other franchise partner goes under, then unless their supporters force Celtic to come clean on the 5 Way the game will remain corrupt with no leadership to end it.
The departure of Lawwell who accepted the 5 Way Agreement might remove a barrier to restoring integrity, but at the end of the day it all depends on the weight all supporters give to integrity v a day out with their family or mates.
Congrats to St Johnstone on their Betfred Cup victory.
A level playing field, if ever attained, will see more of that.
Nawlite 14.25
I simply asked why he thought his link was appropriate on a forum discussing the governance of Scottish football. Boab answered with his reasons. No problems.
My stance on the 5 Rangers players is exactly the same as it was with the players from other teams. They should be punished heavily for their inexcusable behaviour.
Finally the actions of less than 12 months ago should tell you how fickle supporters can be when challenging the authorities,, depending on who is on the opposite side of course.
As BP says the site lost two of it’s best contributors around this time which i believe was a result of the partisanship displayed by some on here who had previously been their biggest critics.
ps New look is an improvement so congratulations to those involved.
Albertz, as far as I can see you only ever comment to defend. Doesn’t work for me.
I genuinely don’t recall any partisanship re the calling of the league, other than TRFC fans calling for it to be null and void to avoid 9 in a row. At that point, I recall “the opposite side” arguing back. I’ll see if I can check back to see who supported the authorities and who displayed partisanship. I’ve never searched the site historically, but I’ll try.
I have already made my feelings known on the lack of punishment for the Rangers five. The only thing I will add is that I was appalled to hear Michael Stewart say the other night it was ‘great management’ by Steven Gerrard to bring three of the players back into the fold for their European tie, and of course one of them scored. Stewart I always felt was a fair minded pundit, not afraid to speak his mind, but of course he has already been suspended by the BBC for upsetting Rangers last season.
Having a search back to last Summer in search of bias over the early calling of the league. Haven’t yet found the right OP, which I assume deals with the issue, or comments thereon. What I have found is that there was a lot of unhappiness over the lack of comments about Scotland beating Ukraine on penalties to qualify for the Euro Championship finals. Each of Ernie, Bordersdon and WOTTPI (all excellent posters imo) complained about no one congratulating the team and stated they were done with SFM as a result. There were quite a few posters commenting that they were personally so fed up at the (corrupt) SFA that they would not support/congratulate the national team as the ‘blazers’ would take the credit and generate positive publicity for themselves. This led to the 3 named posters accusing SFM of being a one trick pony before leaving.
Oh and congratulations to St Johnstone for their league cup win. I saw Chris McLaughlin reporting on it and was surprised that he made a point of stating that this (their second recent cup win) made them the second most successful team in Scotland over the past 10 years. Seemed unnecessary to me and I would imagine this would fuel the fire of TRFC fans who would take it as a dig.
While we are on this subject it has been raised again yesterday on social media that Celtic are having to take 5-6 buses to away games post-Dubai, yet yesterday at Celtic Park Aberdeen had only one bus. Neil Lennon referred to this issue a couple of times in press conferences but was labelled paranoid. If Celtic are being made to work to a different set of rules than other clubs then I don’t see how any justification for that can be made. I have today written to the club in an attempt to have the matter clarified. Some people say surely the board would speak out. Really? Look at everything else they have accepted without a cheep, even though it disadvantaged their club.
Upthehoops, Stewart wasn’t suspended for upsetting ‘Rangers’ he was suspended for upsetting Jim Traynor, was he not?
I like the new site very much , but I notice that the facility to use BOLD or ‘italics’ or ‘undo’ doesn’t seem to be there.
Or is that just me?
And I clicked to give thumbs up to some posts but succeeded only in removing the figures that were already there, leaving 0’s!
And I’ve just used the new edit facility; great to be able to see how much time one has left to get an edit job done. I’ve frequently in the past had to delete a post because I couldn’t get the edit job completed.
Nawlite 28th February 2021 At 21:03
Traynor was PR head at Ibrox at the time. Michael Stewart was highly critical of him for stories appearing in the media regarding Alfredo Morelos. One where it was falsely claimed the brakes on his car had been tampered with, and one where an inaccurate translation of an interview appeared on Sky, which led to Celtic complaining to Ofcom.
Upthehoops 28th February at 20:58
Not enough information here to reach an informed opinion. How many buses do Celtic take to away games? Is it 5 or 6 or less or more? Is it their own COVID protocols that means they travel in more buses or is it at the insistence of the SFA/SPFL? Do they have a larger travelling party and support staff than other teams? How many times have they actually travelled in multiple buses?
I don’t know the answers to any of these questions but would be interested to find out before coming to any conclusions. I would be very interested to read any response you get from the club.
Incredibleadamspark 28th February 2021 At 21:39
I am hoping that the club will provide clarification, and I will have no issue sharing it if they do.
Nawlite 19.02
Perhaps the constant need to defend Rangers is due to what easyjambo described as every subject being viewed through ” a blue prism”.
As an aside not one of my Rangers supporting friends was in favor of the null & void option last season.
Agree with your comment re – CML. Uncalled for and added nothing.
What happens when owners lose interest .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56226865
En route to Parkhead ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55820450
Paddy Malarkey 28th February 2021 At 23:13
‘What happens when owners lose interest .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56226865‘
Today’s ‘Sun’ has a piece about the death of Jungsu FC.
The piece , by Marc Mayo, updated at 13.13, also has this nice little line :
“Only weeks earlier, Chinese FA Cup winners Shandong Luneng were thrown out of the AFC Champions League for ‘overdue payables’.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/14196881/jiangsu-fc-shut-down-china-inter-milan/
When it rolled out, I joined the SFSA thinking it might be a likeminded forum to SFM, seeking fairness, integrity etc. I know BP thinks the same as he has allowed them to publish OPs on SFM and tried to encourage SFM posters to join them in his laudable efforts to get a wider anti-corruption voice. SInce then I have been incredibly, incredibly disappointed with them. They don’t seem to care at all about the corruption in Scottish football.
I am beginning to really despise the way they approach such instances, with the latest blog from them (Donald Stewart) preferring to have a ‘cheeky chappie’ type laugh at serious issues of inconsistency instead of crusading against such lack of fairness, as I thought they might. A lot of this guy’s blogs for them are in a similar vein. Here is the one that has annoyed me today….
The latest blog from SFSA writer Donald Stewart:
Just who has caused the most upset in the water, who has been mucking about in the sand pit and who shoved Lego up wee Nathan Paterson’s nose?
Mr. Christopher and Mr. Alastair are at the Nursery Headteacher’s office as the investigation begins.
Picture the scene…
They have not been in the school two minutes, as lockdown is easing, before the two tykes have been at it again and are now in big trouble.
The headteacher, Ms. Doncaster is towering over them with a GI Joe haircut reminiscent of that horrible teacher in Matilda, but both boys seem to be unrepentant.
Ms. Doncaster tries in her best voice, her inside voice, to ask one of them to own up. “Right boys, tik tok, who has been naughty in the sand, the water and caused Nathan such… an upset.”
Defiantly both boys fold their arms and jut out their chins.
Ms. Doncaster waits…
Eventually, as she expected, Mr. Christopher breaks first. “It’s no fair.” He begins, “I mean Jordan and George didnae get this big trouble last time round.”
Ms. Doncaster, though aware of the incident with the boys Jones and Edmundson fails to see what Mr. Christopher might be getting at.
Mr. Alastair, with his cheeky wee grin, simply says, “It’s no, no fair.”
Ms. Doncaster has to move between them as Mr. Christopher reacts and tries to grab Mr. Alastair.
“Now, Mr. Christopher, this is not how we behave.”
Deciding to take a firmer tone Ms. Doncaster tries to be more authoritative. Right boys, I am going to ask again, and I want a straight answer from either of you. Who did that in the sand pit, who spread the water everywhere and who stuck Lego up Nathan’s nose?”
Mr. Christopher smirks. He likes to smirk.
He asks. “Please miss, see if yous find out who has done them things, will they get into the same trouble as what Jordan and George had got before, miss?”
Thinking she was smart, Ms. Doncaster enters negotiation mode.
“Well, Mr. Christopher, do you think they should get into the same kind of trouble?”
Mr. Christopher smirks once more and answers, “I fair think they should cos it’s the same kind of thingmy they done.”
Mr. Alastair decides to intervene and says, “Aye but it isnae the right same but, sure it’s no. I mean it’s like the kinda same but it isnae really but.”
Mr. Christopher can spot a cue when he sees one and joins in. “Aye but, it is but, isn’t it no?”
Mr. Alastair further joins in with, “Aye but it isnae really but, I mean it wouldnae be the same thingmy but it might no be the wrang thingmy…”
Mr. Christopher, realising how well things are going continues with, “Aye but you wouldnae want anyone tae worm their way out but.”
Losing control to a couple of tousled haired, four year old tykes sees Ms. Doncaster lose it and she shrieks at the top of her voice, “Would you pair cut it. I have had enough of the pair of you wee snotters thinking yer smart and yer clever and yer untouchable but I am not, and I repeat I am NOT here to be entertained by a couple of four year old clowns who think it IS FUNNY TO STICK LEGO UP A CHILD’S NOSE. AND BEFORE YE TELL ME WHO YER PARENTS ARE I AM NOT IMPRESSED. HEAR ME? I AM NOT IMPRESSED BY FOUR PEOPLE WHO WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TAE MEET ON TINDER AND HAVE THE LIKES OF YOU THANKS TO A KNEE TREMBLER AT THE BACK OF THE GARAGE SO SPILL YA FANNIES!”
Just then the school secretary, opens the door visibly shocked as she and her two guests, aforementioned parents of two fannies and wee snotters, summoned by her at the headteacher’s insistence, have witnessed the last few moments. As the door is opened a red faced Ms. Doncaster has her back to it as she hears the school secretary announce, “Ms. Doncaster, as requested, Mr. and Mrs. McCoist and Mrs. and Mrs. Sutton are here to see you.”
Ms. Doncaster turns slowly and as she tries to smile, she hears a couple of wee fannies, who know their audience, start to wail in mock derision and she thinks about how she might spend her early retirement…
Whilst the author asserts his right to this as an original tale, there is no evidence that Chris Sutton and Alastair McCoist ever went to Nursery School together, so this is therefore not true, though both did fall out during the week on BT Sport.
On a Friday night edition ofBT Sport’s Scottish Football Extra things got pretty heated as Chris Sutton and Ally McCoist just about came to blows over Rangers’ treatment of their seven COVID rulebreakers. Nathan Patterson, Calvin Bassey and Bongani Zungu were all named on the bench for the win over Antwerp in the Europa League with Patterson coming on at half-time to score and Zungu featuring later on. Ex-Celtic striker Sutton accused Rangers of a lack of consistency in dealing with the players. Ally McCoist was having none of it, but the last words were left with Sutton as he said, “I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just saying it’s a massive double-standard. Even you, and you worm your way out of a lot of things, have to accept that there’s been different treatment.” There is no VAR evidence of what happened in the sandpit, in the water or with the Lego once the cameras stopped rolling.
I ask what is the point of the SFSA?
With the number of league games dwindling nd the lack of action by the SFA will any potential bans be carried forward to next season. Would be a red face for the SFA if some of the Covid 5 were moved and out of reach for punishment. The longer it takes for a decision the worse the optics appear. It is interesting to note that the staunch Rangers supporters in the media are posing questions as to the length of time it has taken to react.
Nawlite
I have done sympathy for the Sfsa. Not for that article of course, which doesn’t necessarily reflect their policy, but for the tap dancing on eggshells exercise they have to undergo when bigger clubs are involved. Get there time wrong and they can alienate 25% of the Scots fanbase.
I think we realised very early on that they were never gonna be a campaigning bulwark, but my own take on Paul Goodwin, well intentioned as he is, is that he has treated the whole Rangers scenario like a hot potato.
Like many others, he has conflated going after corruption at the SFA (over the licensing issue for example) as a hostile anti Rangers act.
I understand the need for a broad church, but if you don’t have basic principles that you are willing to stand by, you have no foundation, never mind a roof, for that particular house of worship.
It is to be fair, a great difficulty living in our environment. More effort still required though, because as you say, at the minute, I can’t see the point.
John C
Will try to get the formatting options restored. Sadly the plug-in that provided the functionality is now obsolete and causes problems with newer versions of WordPress.
If anyone knows of a plug-in that does the job, let me know.
Vernallen 1st March 2021 At 17:40
I think their days may be taken up trying to find acceptable wording for a requested apology .
This may excite a few .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56243610
Paddy Malarkey 1st March 2021 at 19:31
Maybe they’re awaiting invitations to a victory celebration before deciding.
Big Pink 1st March 2021 At 17:54
‘..John C
Will try to get the formatting options restored……’
“””””””””””
Thank you.
It’s not a huge problem, but it was a useful facility.
Big Pink 1st March 2021 At 17:52
‘..Like many others, he has conflated going after corruption at the SFA (over the licensing issue for example) as a hostile anti Rangers act..’
“”””””””””””
And, of course , he is quite wrong in so doing.
Allegations of corruption that ,prima facie ,[where are the italics when you need them ? ha ha], have some apparent basis of fact are not aimed expressly in hostility to either RFC plc or RIFC plc/TRFC in themselves , but aimed at the very governance of the Sport.
An allegedly dirty deed of the SFA , of even more emotional importance to ordinary folk than any dirty [allegedly] deeds of politicians, simply has to be investigated.
It is an absurdity to imagine that Scottish Football could seriously be considered as an honest Sport , governed by honest people, given the sporting nonsense of ‘continuity Rangers”
I have mentioned before the connection between the no doubt well-meaning chap in the SFSA and RFC plc as was and is , perhaps, continuing with TRFC.
Facts are chiels that winna ding: RFC plc was liquidated, ceased to be part of Scottish Football.
And for the SFSA to ignore that truth puts it in the camp of those who propagate the Big Lie.
So in terms of the subject matter yet another day passes and no sign of any SFA action against these players. One of the questions asked in the blog was why other clubs and their fans just accept this. It s a very valid question, and one that should be raised again when some of these players take the field again for Rangers against Livingston on 3rd March.
To be honest though, given ‘Rangers’ have never even conceded it was wrong to illegally withhold tens of millions from HMRC, why should we expect them to think there is an issue with this? It is arrogance beyond belief.
This is the same team that played a friendly/closed door game earlier in the season without the testing results available before game time. Perhaps another club should produce a dossier on the actions of the SFA, play it up as an explosive condemnation of the ruling body, throw out broad hints the changes that will follow the release of said dossier, etc .. Oops somebody beat them to the punch and it went nowhere.. Would be interesting to look at some of the articles for Jan/Feb last year as Celtic pulled away to see the reaction of Ranger fans at that time ..
Love the new look. Very clean and easy to navigate.
Ok, testing
I promised incredibleadamspark that if Celtic responded to my question regarding buses to away games I would share it. See below.
“The number of buses is wholly dependent on the number of personnel travelling to ensure compliance with the Joint Response Group’s COVID regulations. For our recent match against Ross County the Club were forced to take six buses to comply with social distancing regulations and with the match taking place at Dingwall on Sunday evening I don’t think anyone travelling wanted to use their own transport as is often the case with matches played at some of the Stadiums in the Central Belt.
In the case of Aberdeen, they used two buses, this would have been deemed sufficient based on the numbers they had travelling and one of their coaches was a double decker so essentially had roughly the same capacity and socially distancing opportunities as three coaches, I believe that some of their staff also used their own transport.”
vernallen 2nd March 2021 At 15:07
Would be interesting to look at some of the articles for Jan/Feb last year as Celtic pulled away to see the reaction of Ranger fans at that time ..
……………………………………..
https://twitter.com/HereCelts/status/1235511204568801280
Cluster One
thanks for the reminder nothing ever seems to change with their fans. the celebration surrounding their first title could get quite messy and disorderly if you follow some of the thoughts/ideas posted on some of their websites .. good luck to the police on that day.
Upthehoops 2nd March 2021 At 19:42
Looks like there isn’t any issue here and the club has been very helpful in explaining the reasons and circumstances behind the travelling arrangements.
I didn’t see the press conference you mentioned in a previous post but if Lennon was questioning this and implying Celtic were being disadvantaged then that’s really disappointing as that’s clearly not the case here. I’m guessing he would’ve known perfectly well the reasons why.
Well done on getting a swift response from Celtic on this and thanks for posting it on here.
Incredibleadamspark 3rd March 2021 At 07:19
As I recall Lennon’s main beef was that post Dubai there were restrictions put in place regarding team buses that were not in place before they travelled. Given that there was almost a demand for public hangings by the Government and the media I am prepared to cut him some slack given the torrents of abuse that were coming his way. Wherever he is right now he must also be wondering why the same Government and media are going so easy on Rangers. There is still no news of a punishment for these five players!
Upthehoops 3rd March 2021 At 08:21
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Incredibleadamspark 3rd March 2021 At 07:19
Wherever he is right now he must also be wondering why the same Government and media are going so easy on Rangers. There is still no news of a punishment for these five players!
………..
Nor any attempts by the govt’s political rivals to create a hulllabaloo and gain some mileage out of it UTH. It’s most unlike politicians !…..It’s almost like Sevco have unofficially Giggsed it.
Steven Gerrard’s latest, covid 5 treated like earlier players, same fine, same punishment, etc. Jones and Edmundson asked to go out on loan to continue playing. Would anyone in the media attempt to contact these two to see if that is actually the case. Who did the actual asking would seem to be the issue here ..They moved rather quickly if memory serves right..
It surely can’t be possible that as soon as Tavernier is available again, the SFA might suspend the breaching players? Until then, it appears that TRFC need Patterson – in particular – available, to stand in at right back. I saw most TRFC fans absolutely slating Balogun (the original choice as Tavernier’s cover) for his dire first half performance in the first half of the Antwerp 2nd leg.
I can’t believe that will happen.
nawlite 28th February 2021 At 21:03
“Upthehoops, Stewart wasn’t suspended for upsetting ‘Rangers’ he was suspended for upsetting Jim Traynor, was he not?”
Yep and even though other people who are criticised constantly are never there to defend themselves, don’t dare rock the boat eh.
BBC establishment Erse lickers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZEZXkr9OiM
Vernallen 3rd March 14.30.
Both players were punished by Rangers on November 2nd 2020.
George Edmundson joined Derby County on January 31st 2021
Jordan Jones joined Sunderland on January 29th 2021.
Your “moved rather quickly” comment is therefore in my opinion inaccurate.
Steven Gerrards comments were of course made in response to Chris Suttons own inaccurate and speculative claims. Sutton in his usual uninformed manner claimed the situation “stinks of hypocrisy and double standards” and that “Edmundson and Jones will feel betrayed”.
SGs reply in full.
“The boys are back within the group and it’s important to say they are NOT being treated any differently to the previous two.
“Contrary to what i’ve read in certain reports, they have been dealt with exactly the same way in terms of fines
“They all had to self-isolate for the correct amount of time under the government guidelines. They were suspended by the club for the same amount of time and fined the exact same amount in terms of weeks wages.
“I told them all in terms of what i thought, and that they had a second chance to play for Rangers again.
“I think that the only difference is the two previous lads were desperate to play and wanted to go out on loan. That was their decision as much as mine. But it’s important for me to stress no one is being treated differently to anyone else. That’s important for me to get that across”.
True to form Albertz, good job!
Nawlite 3rd March 15.44.
If anyone, myself included, makes an inaccurate, in my opinion, comment then should it not be corrected or challenged?
Is there anyone else on the forum who will do this when anything Rangers related is concerned.?
I just see you automatically defending TRFC without knowing that Vernallen’s comments are inaccurate. The dates you quote are accurate, I’m sure, but that in itself doesn’t give the true context.
Both Jones and Edmondson were still at least excluded from the TRFC group (they may well have still been suspended) by the time the January window came around. The window would of course have been the first opportunity to ‘get rid’ and TRFC took that opportunity.
I see no need for you to defend Vernallen’s suggestion that someone in the SMSM should ask Jones or Edmondson for clarification….but as I said, that’s all you are here to do imo.
Upthehoops 3rd March 2021 At 08:21
The criticism, as I recall it anyway, towards Lennon came from many different sources and not just Government and media, including a significant number of Celtic supporters. I personally thought his response post Dubai was needlessly confrontational and utterly tone deaf. It certainly wasn’t endorsed by his employers.
I don’t know the posts you were referring to on social media about these travel arrangements but the implication seems to be that Celtic are being singled out somehow. You certainly thought they might be. This is clearly not the case and you have proved this by contacting your club and asking a few basic questions about the situation.
The illusion of truth can be achieved through repetition so hopefully you have put to bed any doubts people may have about Celtic’s treatment with regards to COVID travel protocol.
Albertz11 3rd March 2021 At 17:09
I don’t view the world through a blue ,or , for that matter , a green prism . My opinion is that there are massive differences between the treatment of the two cheeks this season , especially in relation to covid compliance . And , also in my opinion , certain hacks are expectorating nine years of pent up phlegm in celebration of their club’s arrival at the top . All heading in one direction .
Well, that’s 8 hours of my life I’m not going to get back, watching the FM giving evidence in Parliament!
Still, I wouldn’t have missed it because the whole business is about really fundamental matters like Truth in Government (governance) and the supposed checks and balances that are needed to be seen to be operating.
On the party-going-5, I have to say fairly that Halliday in ‘The Scotsman’ reports that Gerrard is still waiting to learn what action the Scottish FA will take against the recent five culprits but insists Rangers have been consistent in their approach. He quotes Gerrard as follows:
“The boys are back in the group and it’s important to say they are not being treated any differently to the previous two. They have been dealt with exactly the same in terms of fines. They all had to self-isolate… they were suspended ..for the same amount of time and fined exactly the same amount in terms of weeks’ wages……….It’s important for me to stress that no one is being treated differently from anyone else.”
But , curiously, Gerrard went on to say ” There is definitely contact between the SFA and our club. I’m not sure whether we are waiting for them or they are waiting for us, to be honest…. I’ve left it to the people who deal with these things”
What the heck is there to keep the Compliance Officer from issuing complaints in the ordinary way, without any other contact?
ALBERTZ11 3rd March 15:38
Thank you for clarifying the time line. I still feel it would be worthwhile to ascertain if the players went voluntary or were volunteered for on loan duty. Team has form for volunteering people for resignation in the past.
Incredibleadamspark 3rd March 2021 At 17:01
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The illusion of truth can be achieved through repetition so hopefully you have put to bed any doubts people may have about Celtic’s treatment with regards to COVID travel protocol.
I’m glad you said ‘travel’ protocol, given that Celtic were fined £30k by the SFA for a player breaching Covid rules, who also received a three match ban. Add to that the First Minister ordered that Celtic have two matches postponed as a punishment for something the club knew nothing about and acted upon as soon as they knew. Meanwhile those five Rangers players and Rangers themselves go untouched by the same people. Such discrimination does not have a good look to it.
I’ve just been reading Lord Tyre’s 24-page decision (reported on 16th February on the ‘Court of Session Judgments’ page) in the ‘malicious prosecution’ Hearing of David Grier v The Lord Advocate .
At Para 45 , the Judge says:
“It appears to me to follow from the decision of the court that, on an objective assessment, there was no
“case fit to be put into court”. Nothing further is relied upon in the defences, and I
accordingly hold that there is no relevant defence pled to the pursuer’s case that the
prosecution was initiated and continued in the absence of reasonable and probable cause”
In para 46, the Judge says
“.It is acknowledged by the pursuer [that is, Grier] that a finding of absence of reasonable and
probable cause does not necessarily imply that the prosecution was malicious, and that, at
least on the law as currently understood, the pursuer will require to prove malice before his
claim for damages can succeed…
Dates have been reserved for a proof before answer, but before pronouncing any interlocutor I will put the case out by order in order that parties may address me on any matters arising from this opinion”
“”””””””””
The case was indeed put out ‘by order’ to be heard on 25 February – I missed that [if it was held ‘virtually’], and so far there is no ‘judgment’ or report on what may have transpired at the Hearing, assuming it was held.
I will try to remember to look at the Rolls for sign of any further hearing or judgment.
(I note in the passing that the opening para has this:
[“Introduction
[1] The pursuer is one of a number of individuals who were charged with various
offences, including conspiracy to defraud, in connection with the acquisition in 2011 by a
company controlled by Mr Craig Whyte of a controlling shareholding in Rangers Football
Club plc (“the Club”).2]
No mention of any ‘holding company’ being purchased!! It was the football club that was bought, and allowed to run into Administration by Whyte, and left to sink into Liquidation by its Administrators.
There is absolutely no getting away from that, whatever ‘prism’ may be used!]
Upthehoops 3rd March 2021 At 19:04
Obviously I wrote ‘Covid travel protocol’ because that is what we were discussing. False narratives, like the one you read elsewhere and brought to our attention, can become accepted all too easily if not questioned. I think you’ve done the correct thing in writing to your club for clarification and perhaps you will now revisit these social media sites and share your information to clear up any inaccuracies. I hope so.
I don’t think all COVID breaches are the same and punishments will vary, to put it mildly. Players attend a party and get a 7 game ban. Players attend a party and do not get banned, Players go out and fail to socially distance, catch Coronavirus and get 3 match bans, suspended until the end of the season. A player jets off to Spain, fails to tell anyone or quarantine, is then involved in a match and receives a 3 game ban with a further 2 suspended until the end of the season. And on and on and on…..
And the fines….. Aberdeen and Celtic were fined £30,000 (£8,000 to SPFL Trust the rest suspended until the end of the season), Killie and St Mirren were fined £40,000 (suspended until end of season) then reduced on appeal to £20,000 (£10,000 suspended until end of the season) and there may be more…..
Dundee Utd pose for team photo days before a COVID outbreak at the club and do not get punished.
Celtic go to Dubai…. we all know what happens next
Matches have been postponed, rearranged, teams have been given 3-0 walkovers then those walkovers have been reversed…..
Basically it’s all a bit of an omnishambles and the apparent inconsistencies in punishments make fertile breeding ground for the predictable conspiracies.
SPFL & SFA with decisions to make. If I was a betting man I suspect Dumferline will know their punishment sooner than the Rangers Covid – 5. And, to muddy the waters we have the Liverpool gentlemen swearing at a referee ( apparently caught by the TV mikes), what will befall him in regards to punishment.
Incredibleadamspark 3rd March 2021 At 20:58
Basically it’s all a bit of an omnishambles and the apparent inconsistencies in punishments make fertile breeding ground for the predictable conspiracies.
……………………………
I also think Rangers missed an incredible PR opportunity here. The league is done and dusted and has been for a while. If they had banned the players themselves then subsequent action by the SFA was a simple paper exercise. Instead Rangers have been allowed to control the entire narrative and are now freely playing these players, while the SFA say nothing. It really is quite appalling at best and looks downright biased at worst.
This does not surprise me at all, and you will no doubt disagree, but specifically the notable differences in treatment of Celtic and Rangers over covid breaches by the media, the SFA, and the Scottish Government show that deep rooted attitudes in Scotland remain.
Paddy Malarkey 3rd March 17.42.
I quoted a former contributor Paddy. You may not view the world through a blue prism but many on the site do. For example Steven Gerrard’s red card last night was commented on within a few hours, whereas Motherwell manager Graham Alexander was red carded and yellow carded in successive games without as much as a mention on here.
St Mirren commission a ” forensic review of it’s operations” after possible financial irregularities came to light during their annual audit.
Aberdeen apply for a Government crisis loan.
Dundee United request help from their Supporters Foundation for the second time in seven months.
Not one of the above came in for any monitoring.
Can you honestly say that had it been Rangers involved there would a similar level of noninterest?.
Absolutely fair points, Albertz, and your final question is undoubtedly pertinent. I would rate your input more highly if you took the opportunity to raise those matters for discussion at the time to see how other posters react to it. I think SFM is mature enough to discuss such issues no matter the team involved. There may be some pushback from those who follow any team concerned and if SFM’s anti-corruption stance holds firm, it might not sit well with those fans if they feel unsupported. Overall, though, I agree those are the sort of things that should be commented on here.
Just in, in the lunchtime post: a reply dated 3rd March from the Lord Advocate’s office to my letter to him of 11 February 2021. (Well done to their correspondence unit- a reply within 3 weeks is pretty good going for a relatively small government department with probably a very small ‘administrative’ as opposed to legal staff)
The reply is short enough for me to give the text in full, as below:
“Dear Sir or Madam ,
Thank you for your letter of 11 February 2021 to the Lord Advocate. Your correspondence has been passed to this unit for consideration.
The Lord Advocate’s statement to the Scottish Parliament on 9 February 2021 concerned malicious prosecution. During the statement the Lord Advocate commented on several matters including the prosecution process in these cases and the costs in terms of damages paid to the pursuers. The acquisition, administration and liquidation of Rangers FC has been well documented in many other forums.
The Lord Advocate made clear in his statement of 9 February, and during the opposition debate on 10 February, his commitment to ongoing public accountability in respect of these matters.
I hope this is helpful.
Yours faithfully,
X.Y.( but not signed]
Head of Litigation & Inquiry team ”
Not quite sure quite why mention is made of the prosecution process and costs in terms of damages: I never mentioned such stuff! ( Perhaps the Whitehouse/Clarke damages and the Salmond pay-out are pressing on COPFS minds currently?]
However, a statement such as ‘ The acquisition , administration and liquidation of RANGERS FC (my block letters] has been well documented in many other forums’ serves me well, as being a proper lawyer’s understanding that it was the FOOTBALL CLUB that was liquidated, with no wriggling , farcical nonsense about it having been a ‘holding company’ that lost its membership of the SFA!
I’m quite pleased with that result and will, whenever necessary ,cite the Lord Advocate as my authority.
I see last night a significant number of Rangers fans gathered outside the ground and let off fireworks, which required the intervention of Fire and Police Officers, as well as social distancing laws being broken. I have a picture of it but can see no way to post it on the forum. The point is that yet again there is media and Scottish Government silence. The double standards are all too obvious. Just wait until the planned mass breaches once the league is won, even though tier 4 restrictions specifically prohibit it. Perhaps the Scottish Government will put it in the ‘understandable’ category.
The question also remains, why didn’t you?
Yes indeed Nawlite. A very rude response to what was a supportive post I thought. Removed.
Albertz11 4th March 2021 At 10:44
I know you quoted another poster on the subject , but , at the end of the day , it’s just somebody else’s opinion that you’re propagating , and not one that I agree with . I think the demographics of the site dictate the responses , and that the major prisms are blue , green , red and maroon , in that order . Nothing wrong with that , people should be fighting their corner . If you think the subjects you mention were worthy of further scrutiny , why not post on them yourself ? Smacks to me of whitabootery .
Thoughts , anybody , on the firework display that halted the game last night ? Livi fans with Sunday’s unused celebratory rockets ? 55th minute ?
A small taste of what’s still to come i would suggest.
Albertz11 4th March 2021 At 21:52
I would agree with that !
Still nothing on the Covid 5, but, Morelos’s yellow card on the agenda tomorrow.. One is fast tracked the other moves at glacial speed. Maybe they are hoping out of sight out of mind.. Based on comments on Ranger blogs and forums, I think the fireworks are a low level showing of bigger things to come. Would be best to stay at home when the fun starts..
I still can’t understand why there has been no punishment for the 5 Rangers players. 7 match bans were handed out to the last Rangers players to break COVID protocols so what’s the difference this time?
As for Morelos yellow card I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s overturned. Having watched it a few times there is definitely contact but he does go down way too easily. Reckon it could go either way and that’s probably the correct decision, if that makes any sense?