The “Lawwell Letter” is trending everywhere this week. To elucidate, it is email sent to (among others) Peter Lawwell and Eric Riley of Celtic on 26 July 2012 by SPL CEO Neil Doncaster.
The email came with an attached copy of the Five Way Agreement (hereafter “5WA”, the deal between Sevco, Rangers, the SFA, the SPL and the SFL). Now that it has been made public, it seems safe to speak openly about what it all means for us as folk who believe in sporting integrity.
I would preface my comments with a caveat though. On the face of it, the Celtic Chief Executive appears to have misled the gathering at the recent Celtic AGM. He was asked by a shareholder if Celtic were involved in the Five Way Agreement. Lawwell replied, “No”, and gave same “No” response to the follow up question, “have you seen it?”
Given that a copy of that email was in the possession of a few folk before that AGM, I have to admit to being surprised by that answer – although even more surprised at the apparent lack of due diligence implied by the lack of knowledge of its content.
We have attempted to contact Mr Lawwell to ask him if he would like to comment on the apparent discrepancy between the evidence and his answer (and I am sure we are not the only ones to have done so). To date, we have received no response. Given the complete lack of acknowledgement of the existence of this anomaly in the MSM, we should perhaps assume that none will be forthcoming.
Perhaps there is an explanation (yes I know), but Celtic should know, like Rangers old and new have come to realise, that silence on these matters breeds deep suspicion and distrust.
Assuming for the minute that Occam’s Razor applies here, there may be an uncomfortable truth emerging for Celtic fans – that Rangers (old and new) do not have a monopoly on dishonesty. There is also an uncomfortable truth that should emerge for Rangers fans too – that as we have said all along, this has never been about just Rangers, but about the governance of the game.
If the Celtic CEO did lie to the AGM a few weeks ago what are the consequences? He broke no laws as far as I can see. One insider I spoke to said simply this,
“So he lied. So what? What happens now? It’s irrelevant”
That is of course absolutely true. As long as controlling shareholders are happy that Resolution 12 is buried, and that no deep inquiry into governance is held into the workings of the game in Scotland, the lie is nonpunishable, though it would be a mistake to believe that accountability is confined only to the corporate rules governing Boards and shareholders; the corporate veil of “I was only following company policy” can be readily challenged in the court of public opinion, which has no statute of limitations.
What all this demonstrates of course is that Celtic have been saying one thing to their fans and shareholders, nodding agreement in private meetings about how appalling Rangers behaviour was, tut-tutting over how amateurish the authorities were, and wringing their hands in frustration at what a sham the LNS inquiry turned out to be.
At the same time, they have done nothing, allowed small shareholders to spend not inconsiderable suns progressing the matter, and quietly hoped that the “appetite” for justice would diminish so they could get back to whatever it is they and the rest do when subject to little or no scrutiny.
Whilst ten in a row is on the table of course, they can get away with it. To Celtic fans right now, understandably, nothing else matters. But what if TIAR is derailed? Not a stretch to imagine that the Parkhead kitchen could get uncontrollably hot in that circumstance. And when the TIAR squirrel finally ends its scurry, in either success or failure, where will the fans attention be diverted?
Perhaps the arrogance that permits making (allegedly) false statements to a general meeting, and (allegedly) misleading shareholders over Res 12 is borne of the knowledge that the parachutes are ready to be deployed when either of the above scenarios come to pass? If TIAR is achieved or goes south, are they already prepared for an emergency exit?
Celtic have two major shareholders whose combined holding is over 50% of the club’s shares. Dermot Desmond and Nick Train. Desmond is now in his eighth decade and Train is reportedly having some business difficulties. Both may well be moved to get out anyway, but fan unrest would make their decision a whole lot easier.
And Lawwell himself is – if you believe the MSM – on the wanted list of nearly as many top clubs as Alfredo Morelos.
The foregoing of course is extremely “Old Firm” centric, and as the two biggest clubs in the country they certainly have the biggest impact on the game, culturally, socially and financially. However there is no get-out clause here for others.
We KNOW there is evidence of fraud surrounding the licencing issue in 2012. We KNOW there is evidence of a cover up over that, and the EBT-related registration issues for Old Rangers. We KNOW that the Five Way Agreement was signed by football authorities in the knowledge that it would rob their own rules of judicial authority with regard to compliance by RFC prior to 2012.
We also know that NOT ONE club has taken a meaningful stand against any of it.
Clubs are saying one thing to supporters and doing their best to derail those supporters’ efforts on the other. We can also infer (not unreasonably) that the folk who run the clubs think that we as fans have no right to interfere in how they run their operations.
As I said earlier, Celtic can do what they like whilst TIAR is live, but afterwards, however it ends, the fans and shareholders involved in Res 12 will still be asking questions. Celtic in particular know how fatal it can be to alienate their own fan base – a fan base that has flexed its muscles with devastating effect for the boardroom in the past. And it is the wrath of the fans of all clubs that will eventually see the charlatans get their just desserts.
Our job as fans is to continue to hold those who care little for the honour and beauty of football to account, to continue to press them on their refusal to deal with arguably the biggest sporting scandal in Scottish history.
The bottom line (which is of course what the folk in boardrooms care about) is this. They need us far more than we need them. As fans of different clubs, the sensibility of those of us at SFM recognises that the real battle, the real war, is not between rival fans or rival clubs, but between the arrogant, self-entitled clique who run our game; who lie for fun, who cheat and belittle the sport; and the good folk who make it possible for the game to prosper.
Resolution 12 is not just about Rangers – nor is it just about Celtic. It deserves to be embraced by every true football fan in the country. The Res 12 franchise needs to widened
Sooner or later the fans will demonstrate their unhappiness with the money men. They did it in 2012, and they will inevitably do so again.
The Highland League has made a decision to end the season and declare Brora champions.
http://www.highlandfootballleague.com/News/Item/1976_Scottish_Highland_Football_League_-_Update.aspx
The notable points from that decision are that Brora, despite a healthy lead, could still be caught by three teams and that there is no relegation from the HL to consider.
Easyjambo@17.25
Scottish Football needs a strong Brora.
Re sports channel subscriptions. Cancelled my BT Sports (£10/mth) today. No problems and no questions asked. Would be interesting to know how much it is costing Sky worldwide?
Jeezo just read Chris Boyds attack on Hearts …that guy is just an idiot with no self awareness. Think that might come back to bite you sunshine . If you take the Corona virus out the equation Im sure Hearts would'nt be going down that road………….Over at Ibrox when the enevitable happens you cant bet your boots that that Boydy will disappear or he will be shouting from the rooftops " The Rangerz were in good financial health it was the Corona Virus wot did it ".
easyJambo 21st March 2020 at 17:25
The Highland League has made a decision to end the season and declare Brora champions.
========================
Going over old ground but this surely has to be one option the SPFL will have to consider. Not the only option, but it surely can’t be dismissed either. There still seems to be a quiet campaign to seize the moment and go for null and void and nothing else. Graham Spiers was at it again in his Times column this morning, amidst a prediction that Celtic fans will claim a conspiracy. Does he have inside knowledge or is he simply pushing for what many of his fellow Rangers fans are pushing for? As a Celtic fan I am demanding nothing other than all options be considered in a fair and reasonable way, and that a democratic decision is made. This is a worldwide crisis, and people who are trying to use it in an attempt to influence their own desired outcome for Scottish football are pretty pathetic in my view.
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 21:52
normally fans may waive their right to a refund when things are tight for their club but things are going to be equally difficult for them as well.
……………..
Bogs Dollox 20th March 2020 at 22:09
……
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 21:12
….
I think club 1872 had their pockets picked not so long ago and the amount they have built up since then will not make a great deal of difference (rough liberal est 500k)
………………….
In these pressing times club 1872 donations could be the first to take a hit from any ibrox fan.
Any share issue, club 72 have been at the forefront to dilute their shares (madness i know)
This share issue if it ever happens, i don’t believe 72 will make much of a dent in anything.
There were times the ibrox boards could rely on a cash pot from 72, that well may be just about to dry up.
I think club 1872 had their pockets picked not so long ago and the amount they have built up since then will not make a great deal of difference (rough liberal est 500k)
Just waiting for (S*)DM venturing that any decision on league placings must meet his famed "smell test".
It's actually true though – if whatever decision made does not stack up against the reasonable expectations Scottish Football fans have of a fair resolution then there may not be many fans returning after the enforced break.
Scottish Football needs to take guidance from the Highland League.
Redlichtie
And also from the Euro Club Index Football Ranking (using the relative strengths of teams and 100,000 simulations) which has provided a scientific prediction of 98.87% that CFC would win the SPFL?
Liverpool (who are not mathematically assured of winning the English Premiership) are rated at 100%
Over to you Operation Null and Void for discussion.
Scottish Football needs a strong St Anthony's.
I missed the wee spat atween Michael Stewart and Fraser Wishart on 'Sportsound' today: it must have come on while we had the radio off during a Skype from Pennsylvania.
I've just read a wee bit about it in the 'Sunday Mail online' but it's not clear to me what Stewart was trying to establish , that caused Wishart to be annoyed at being asked the same question three times about membership of the PFA.
Anybody?
Tne current season losers and winners should not be declared until all scheduled games are complete and if that means a shortened season 20/21, then so be it.
Life in WUHAN looks like it is starting to normalize. Here in Scotland we are on the edge of the storm but we are starting to feel it's force however it should be over by Christmas.
In the name of integrity with so many points to play for it makes sense to me.
Martin C
Taken in isolation I would agree. Trouble is that complications linked to external factors like UEFA competitions, players’ contracts, not to mention the virus itself are also significant.
Shortening next season would diminish the competition as much as shortening this season too, although the latter is laden with less complications for the external factors.
If June can’t be achieved, I don’t see that it is possible to avoid the award/void decision beyond the end of that month.
Reality is that everyone knows June is not achievable, and all the talk about difficult decisions is just that. Talk. Celtic will be awarded the title, there will be no relegation, and a reorganised 14 team top division will emerge.
One idea being talked about, supported by SKY, is for top league to play home and away, then split 7-7, with 6 home and 6 away matches.
Exactly the same number of games as currently.
John Clark 21st March 2020 at 11:37
My question of the other day is partly answered! Iain McMenemy, chairman of Stenhousemuir tells us that his club's share of the £1.5 million is £,8000!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Come on JC. Two Glasgow " Clubs" ruined Scottish football a long time ago.
John Clark 21st March 2020 at 22:08
ooooo
M.Stewart was trying to establish whether Wishart was distinguishing between members and non-members of his Union, or talking to / offering advice to everyone. He suggested that offering advice to Union members only would encourage non-members to join. This is a basic point of Union practice – if Unions offered advice to non-members, no-one would join and pay their subs. Wishart not only seemed to miss the point, which is extraordinary in itself, but repeatedly laughed and mocked Stewart, who rightly said he found that offensive. PFA members would have every right to be concerned about the leadership of their Union and the service being offered them.
Bogs Dollox 22nd March 2020 at 01:00
Come on JC. Two Glasgow " Clubs" ruined Scottish football a long time ago.
====================================
Which two and how did they ruin Scottish football.
Homunculus 22nd March 2020 at 11:17
Bogs Dollox 22nd March 2020 at 01:00
Come on JC. Two Glasgow " Clubs" ruined Scottish football a long time ago.
====================================
Which two and how did they ruin Scottish football.
—————————————————————–
Sir, sir I know this one!
One was R* and the other C.
R* spent money they didn't have and cheated the tax man (and Her Majesty, it is HMRC) to ignite a football arms race where every other club was financially disadvantaged.
The other (C) turned a blind eye to ensuring justice was done when it all went to pot and actually assisted a new R* get into the Scottish football leagues – clearly for selfish commercial reasons.
Do I get high marks for this?
Looking at where we may be heading I see that in the USA Boeing, after scandalous behaviour that has led to many deaths (ref 737 MAX) are now seeking a government bailout due, of course, to COVID-19.
Let's not shame Scottish Football further by allowing R* to escape the just desserts of their financial recklessness since they were formed in 2012.
Scottish Football needs C to step up to the plate this time.
Alex Rae (leading light in the Null and Void ‘campaign’) said:-
“On reflection, bearing in mind Peter Lawell’s wish for a fair settlement, coupled with the fact that there is a 98.87% chance of Celtic winning the SPFL anyway, I think they should be declared Champions ”
Then I woke up!
There are a number of options available to the SPFL with regard to ending the league. Within each option I've suggested, there will still be variations of how things like promotions, relegations and prize money could be handled.
1. Wait – Complete the season when it is safe to resume. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions should they start a new competition before the "season" is ended. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
2. Null and void – Current positions or last season's positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions should they start a new competition in season 2020/21. No promotions or relegations. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
3. End the season now – Award titles. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions when they resume. Automatic promotions/relegations take place but with no play offs. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
4. Reconstruction 14 x 14 x 14 – End the season now, Award titles. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions when they resume. No clubs disadvantaged in terms of promotion, other than those in the HL/LL. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
5. Reconstruction 14 x 10 x 10 x 10 – End the season now, Award titles. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions when they resume. No relegation. Top two in each league promoted, plus HL and LL winners. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
There are advantages and disadvantages with each option before self interest comes into it.
My own preference would be to end the season now, but to take the opportunity go further on the reconstruction path, so that we end up with two leagues of 16, filled predominately with full time clubs. They would play a reduced programme of 30 games a season, (it would be possible to add mini splits if the no of games was an issue, e.g. 4 groups of 4 playing home and away). Below those two leagues the pyramid would be regionalised with all the clubs being part time.
Here's a graph from Kieran Maguire (Price of Football) showing the the cash burn rate of the advance payments and grants given to EFL Championship clubs. It's a similar sort of thing to that produced by Barcabhoy last week.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 11:55
==============================
If that's what he meant, and it would have been easier to just say it, I have one question.
Why would any one club be more culpable than any other club in turning a blind eye to what was going on.
The only club which stood out in the sequence of events was Kilmarnock, when they abstained when the vote was taken on whether or not to let a new club into the top league (as was).
Re the lower league (as was) they democratically voted to let the new club into their league, in the bottom division.
So I am still at a loss to understand which two Glasgow clubs ruined Scottish football and how they ruined it. If it is ruined everyone was involved.
easyJambo 22nd March 2020 at 12:47
There are a number of options available to the SPFL with regard to ending the league…
========
It was roddybhoy who posted an interesting point yesterday, that in effect UEFA should not be dictating to the domestic leagues.
Whilst UEFA can probably dictate, as per the rules that the leagues have signed up to, roddybhoy's post highlights the perceived disparities in objectives / influence between European 'superclubs' and the other 99% of clubs across Europe.
IMO, any Scottish decision should simply ignore UEFA in the first instance: sort out domestic requirements first and foremost. Only after that has been sorted, then look at UEFA requirements.
Let's face it, there are only 2 Scottish clubs – out of the 42 senior clubs – who benefit significantly from UEFA participation.
The immediate focus should be on the greater good for the whole Scottish senior set up: all the way from CFC down to Brechin.
That's it, IMO.
Worst case: what would happen if no Scottish clubs were involved in the CL or EL at all next season?
UEFA demands should be kicked into the long grass for now.
…but that would probably require strong leadership from the SFA…
All SPFL clubs received a considerable cash windfall (£250,000 each) when Celtic qualifier for CL…..No?
Homunculus 22nd March 2020 at 12:58
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 11:55
==============================
If that's what he meant, and it would have been easier to just say it, I have one question.
Why would any one club be more culpable than any other club in turning a blind eye to what was going on…..If it is ruined everyone was involved.
=============================================
I would not disagree with you in the main thrust of your argument Homunculus. My view though is that the two clubs identified have a greater responsibility – one (R*) through their behaviour in ways noted earlier and C as the other major Scottish club who because of that position of strength should have ensured matters were handled correctly by the authorities. Other clubs were on far weaker ground financially and in terms of size of support/clout with the authorities. C as far as I can see did not do the right thing for the greater good of Scottish Football and we are still paying the price.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Bawsman 22nd March 2020 at 13:37
All SPFL clubs received a considerable cash windfall (£250,000 each) when Celtic qualifier for CL…..No?
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Clubs receive solidarity payments from UEFA in any event. However the amount increases (doubles?) if a club from an association reaches the group stages of the CL.
Let's say the increase was £250k per club. I'm sure that all the Premiership clubs would welcome that boost to their coffers, but it's nowhere near the welcome that Celtic would give to receiving £25m extra income from CL group participation.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 14:00
==============================
The same argument has been used all along and I still don't think it is valid.
Every club had 1 share in the SPL (as was). Every club had an equal say on what happened.
Celtic had no more say, or power than anyone else, and it would have been arrogant to have behaved otherwise.
As an aside I see the Highland league have declared game over with the runaway leaders Brora Rangers announced Champions. The Lowland league has yet to make a similar decision. EJ might know more.
I respect your view Homunculus but to take an example of what grates with me about C is what I for one perceive as their duplicitous behaviour over Resolution 12. This seems to support my view that C are not motivated to pursue justice even when given cause/evidence to so do.
With that delay and inaction they effectively and in general endorsed the decisions and accommodations made by the football authorities. I may be wrong but from what I can see this seems to have been on the basis of C's own commercial interest.
They may be Champions but they are not Champions of Scottish Football Integrity.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 15:27
So tell me, what actions have the other top division clubs taken.
Who would you say are the "Champions of Scottish Football Integrity".
What makes Celtic worse than every other club.
They must be if they are in your opinion one of the two Glasgow clubs who ruined Scottish football.
I think it right that UEFA should make a recommendation for all European leagues. Can you imagine the uproar if Scotland declared the season nul and void while England gave out trophies on current table, or vice versa?
Homunculus 22nd March 2020 at 16:17
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 15:27
So tell me, what actions have the other top division clubs taken.
Who would you say are the "Champions of Scottish Football Integrity".
What makes Celtic worse than every other club.
They must be if they are in your opinion one of the two Glasgow clubs who ruined Scottish football.
============================================================
Again, Homunculus, I don't think we are really far apart in our views. I struggle to name any one person or club that has shown real integrity apart from the late Turnbull Hutton. He was the lone Champion to my mind.
What makes C worse is that they were a direct party to what was concocted and let self-interest rule.
Further they were given evidence and a route to at least make some amends by the Resolution 12 team and as far as I can see elected to sit on their hands.
Taken together C's behaviour saddens me immensely.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Smugas 22nd March 2020 at 15:21
As an aside I see the Highland league have declared game over with the runaway leaders Brora Rangers announced Champions. The Lowland league has yet to make a similar decision. EJ might know more.
==================================
It was mentioned on Sportsound yesterday that the LL don't intend to make a decision for two weeks. They have cancelled their League Cup though. They are not currently minded to follow the HL at this time.
The EoS apparently met on Friday, but only decided to cancel all their cups. I suspect that whatever they do will be in conjunction with LL to ensure that their intentions with regard to promotion / relegation can be put into effect.
There is also a meeting of a sub group of the SFA's Pyramid Working Group tomorrow (by video conference I assume) in relation to the startup of a WoSFL next season. It will probably confirm the level of involvement, if any, of the West Region Junior FA in the new setup. Four West Junior clubs, Clydebank, Kilwinning, Rutherglen Glencairn and Bellshill have already publicly announced that they have applied to join a LL run WoSFL next season, although I've seen suggestions that as many 20 clubs may already have done so.
The current deadline for applications is 31 March. I would expect that to be extended by up to a month to allow other clubs to consider their positions in light of the initial applicants, e.g. if Auchinleck and the other bigger clubs have applied, or if their local neighbour has applied. Some clubs will probably have to consult with their members, depending on their constitutions, but the current restrictions on gatherings may make it a difficult process for some, if they have to rely on electronic means of communication.
https://twitter.com/jensweinreich/status/1241793945178439680?s=21
More important than life or death?
I am repeatedly reading, on a variety of social media sites, that TRFC will somehow achieve a pre-pack administration and will emerge debt free and in a better financial state than they are now.
Not unless they manage to pay off Close Brothers first. A rather large sum is involved I believe.
According to Companies House there are three* charges registered against TRFC, two from 2019 and one from 2018, all from Close Leasing. Furthermore two are floating charges.
Now I’m no expert on these matters but from my reading they are the very definition of the word onerous. If any financial insolvency event occurs at TRFC then Close Leasing will appoint the administrator/receiver, TRFC will pick up all of the Close Leasing costs, oh and by the way Close Leasing have power of attorney over TRFC.
This does not read to me that TRFC will somehow achieve a pre-pack “and with one bound they will be free”. Close Leasing will get its pound of flesh no matter the consequences to TRFC or Scottish football.
* There are actually five charges outstanding but two are historic from Sports Scotland and are over the training ground at Auchenhowie, or whatever it is called now. These are positively tame in comparison to those from Close Brothers.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 19:18
I wonder what the position would be with an ongoing damages claim currently lost but awaiting a decision on the extent of the damages!
As the company/club would still remain the same company/club after a pre-pack administration, or one in which a CVA has been achieved, would the damages basically disappear or would the company/club still have that, and other cases, to face?
I've been unable to find out if an ongoing case, such as the one involving SDI/MA, would simply disappear or if would it carry on and leave the company/club to face the consequences! Anyone got any ideas to the likely outcome of this should RIFC/TRFC succeed with a pre-pack administration?
I tend to think that with SDI's lawyers being rather clever chaps that they'd have this possibility covered to ensure their client (and themselves) doesn't end up with egg on his/their chin, but all the Ibrox clubs and attached lawbreakers seem very adept at confounding what most people would see as justice.
easyJambo 22nd March 2020 at 12:47
………………….
Would problems not arise.
Clubs having a depleted squad, with loan players going back to their parent clubs.
Would clubs be able to strengthen, and maybe able to get that higher place in the league,they otherwise may not have gotten.
Could clubs overspend just to try and win the league or get a european spot.
If this is prolonged could cash strapped cubs have to let players go?
Does anyone know the situation regarding squad players from now to then?
What if a club brings in a new player and his goal is the one that wins a vital game, some may look on that as unfair.
Giovannio your info is really interesting.
Whilst I probably shouldn't be trying to jump the gun I wonder what options would be available to ensure Close Brothers got their money back?
Another football club?
A logistics warehouse?
Housing?
A memorial park?
Allyjambo 22nd March 2020 at 19:50
To the best of my knowledge any outstanding court awards would just be added to the list of creditors. I know of no way that SDI or Hummel/Elite or Memorial Walls can insulate themselves from an insolvency event at TRFC. If TRFC haven’t succumbed to an insolvency event when they are awarded damages etc then they can try to ring fence the monies due to them. However, as far as I’m aware, you can only ring fence cash and bank accounts, not assets. I doubt there will be all that much cash in that event.
There is a presumption on the part of some people that Mr King will be the largest creditor due to his £5m loan and will therefore be able to control any administration event, as Mr Whyte initially tried to do. With the Close Leasing charges and the sums being speculated for SDI I’m not convinced he will be the largest creditor let alone overcome the Close Leasing legal position.
——
adam812 22nd March 2020 at 20:07
I’m fairly confident that Close Brothers will order their appointed administrator/receiver to hold a “fire sale” if necessary to recover their funds. As I said, with no regard to the fate of any football club.
Just something i forgot to ask.
With most folk asked to stay indoors, how much is this effecting the print media? even a few thousand unsold copies each day will hit Then lots of people may just get use to reading online and just stop buying their Daily newspaper.
Giovanni/Allyjambo,
Is there any chance of Mike Ashley and Close cooperating in some way?
A coordinated approach to the RIFC/TRFC admin event could be to mutual benefit.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 19:18
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I am repeatedly reading, on a variety of social media sites, that TRFC will somehow achieve a pre-pack administration and will emerge debt free and in a better financial state than they are now.
………………….
Why would they do that when all the signs coming out of ibrox see them bring in a new PR guy they also have a new partmership with Orange county and we are told there are investors waiting in the wings.And Ashley will owe them millions.
Or am i reading to many of the wrong sites.
I listened with interest earlier today to the BBC Radio programme 'Profile'
I've just listened to it again on this link
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000gksd
It's of about 14 mins duration ( parents, school, uni degrees, hobbies and interests all discussed by former teachers and friends) but if you jump to 09.22 mins you'll hear some critical comments.
The subject being 'profiled' was Andrew Bailey, formerly CEO of the Financial Conduct Authority,('FCA') who took over last Monday as Governor of the Bank of England.
I listened with particular care, for , as I have posted on this blog, I suggested to the FCA back in June/July that they had in 2012 been in breach of their statutory duties when they authorised the Prospectus issued for the RIFC plc float.
Bailey is described as ' a nodding dog(to the Financial services industry), skilful at not answering questions, a 'yes man': and Gina Miller, the Financier and activist wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer seeking an independent review into his appointment as Governor of the B of E.( but this bloody virus thingy has probably ruled out any such review! ).
In my simple way, I reckon that if complaints against operators in the Financial Industries sector were not enthusiastically taken on board on Bailey's watch there is every likelihood that a complaint made by an individual 'nobody '( like me, not an industrialist or Chairman of company or such) against the FCA itself would have been binned early doors.
The most recent email I received from the FCA was received on 20 February.
To protect my position as still wanting to pursue my complaint, I shall send off an email tomorrow asking how the investigation is going.
Cluster One 22nd March 2020 at 20:07
1. Wait – Complete the season when it is safe to resume.
………………….
Would problems not arise.
=========================
There are all sorts of contractual issues with waiting.
————————————
Many politicians, businesses, financial services repeatedly said during the brexit saga that it was uncertainty that inhibits investment and planning for the future. (can we please go back in time to go through brexit again rather than have to deal with covid).
Football is no different. Uncertainty helps no-one, which is why a decision should be made sooner rather than later. We already know that there is a 12 week lockdown on many individuals' freedoms. Do the football authorities really believe that is will be possible to resume and conclude the leagues before the end of June? They are living in cloud cuckoo land.
easyJambo 22nd March 2020 at 20:46
There are all sorts of contractual issues with waiting.
……………..
Agreed. That is why i can’t see any kind of pause restart happening, as it won’t be a pause, restart more a pause, reboot or even a pause slightly different restart. If nothing can’t be done soon (and it looks as if it won’t) then i just can’t see any restart, there are to many issues that would need resolved.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 20:31
Is there any chance of Mike Ashley and Close cooperating in some way?
——
I’m sorry but I fail to see what is in any such arrangement for Close Brothers. They are a secured creditor with not just security on the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House but anything else apart from the Auchenhowie training centre until they get all their funds. Current speculation seems to put the monies due to them at £4m by the end of this month but I’ve no idea whether that is correct. They get paid before SDI or any other creditor. Also from previous estimates the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House are not worth £4m.
BBC Sport Scotland
The current SPFL season must be played to a finish with anything else nothing more than a “fudge”, says former Scottish FA chief executive Stewart Regan.
………………….
Some people have no self- awareness.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 21:31
Also from previous estimates the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House are not worth £4m.
………………
If i remember correctly the ibrox club needs the Albion car park for access to the club deck, no car park no club deck, hence i believe it’s value is worth more than can be seen.
Always happy to be corrected if wrong.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 20:21 Allyjambo 22nd March 2020 at 19:50 To the best of my knowledge any outstanding court awards would just be added to the list of creditors. I know of no way that SDI or Hummel/Elite or Memorial Walls can insulate themselves from an insolvency event at TRFC. If TRFC haven’t succumbed to an insolvency event when they are awarded damages etc then they can try to ring fence the monies due to them. However, as far as I’m aware, you can only ring fence cash and bank accounts, not assets. I doubt there will be all that much cash in that event. There is a presumption on the part of some people that Mr King will be the largest creditor due to his £5m loan and will therefore be able to control any administration event, as Mr Whyte initially tried to do. With the Close Leasing charges and the sums being speculated for SDI I’m not convinced he will be the largest creditor let alone overcome the Close Leasing legal position.
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Though I fear you may be correct, I just wonder if an ongoing case could be added to the creditor pile – but if it could, surely SDI could act in a similar way to HMRC and apply for a winding up order in time to scotch a pre-pack admin. I would have to imagine that the law is not so much of an ass that it would allow such underhand pre-pack tactics to subvert the due process of the law and court system. It would surely be a charter for charlatans and all sorts of conmen. Still, as I alluded to earlier, the clubs and lawbreakers of Ibrox do have a knack of getting away with all sorts of dirty tricks.
PS Pre-pack admin, or not, not only would TRFC face a points deduction that would hand Celtic the league with no questions asked, and prevent any future deriding of the victory/9 in a row, they would still have to pay all of the rather onerous outstanding football debts regardless of how clever they might think themselves – and start next season, whenever that might take place, minus 5 points that would create some difficulty in convincing the more sentient bear to buy an ST as stopping 10 would become even more unlikely than stopping 9 was.
PPS Again, I have no real knowledge of the legal implications, but not only do the onerous conditions attached to the Close security you refer to provide a complication for any sort of clean (as in nice and easy) administration, I'd imagine having any sort of significant charge over fixed assets causes all sorts of problems should any insolvent company look to attempt a pre-pack.
Cluster One 22nd March 2020 at 21:46 Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 21:31 Also from previous estimates the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House are not worth £4m. ……………… If i remember correctly the ibrox club needs the Albion car park for access to the club deck, no car park no club deck, hence i believe it’s value is worth more than can be seen. Always happy to be corrected if wrong.
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Worth more than can be seen to TRFC, yes, but perhaps not to others, such as Close Bros.
Boom!…..Liquidated….It happens. It will happen to many companies.
Whatever plans Sevco did have in place, (If any), have been usurped without warning.
When Rangers(I.L.), turned their toes skywards, it was planned, and no real surprise. Time was available, and preparations were made. A shareholders meeting took place to change the name, freeing up the old name for Charlie's lip-sticked pig to use. Individuals saw a way to coin a few dollars by doing so……..
No noo!…..No this time.
Project Charlotte never saw this one coming.
It seems that Reagan's armageddon has turned into coronageddon.
Don't forget that there is two companies we are talking about. RIFC and TRFC.
I suspect (as Big Pink did) that Stuart Gibson was serious about investing in Sevco. However, as I have said on here before, I think that he wanted to buy TRFC from RIFC. There was no 'investment' coming.
Why?
RIFC is a dead duck. All past investment was in RIFC not TRFC. That investment was converted into shares. TRFC owe RIFC nothing.
Shareholders of RIFC would have at least received some recompense for their stupidity. They needed a sale.
A good businessman could have done a deal with Ashley negating the legal charges.
Ashley would probably been taken on board the good ship Sevco in one form or another.
The other sportswear legal cases would then have been dropped. One is a nickel and dime company and the other would be more than glad to have been taken under SD's umbrella.
If Sevco was run under good financial management, it would have been a good business to have and develop.
As an aside, the last person you would want to sell a football club in dire financial straights to would be a property developer! Think of the property development going on on the South side of the river by Barclays at Buchanan Wharf. You can never underestimate the earning potential of a shopping centre with good transport links and a car park.
Now? Well everyone is screwed. Ashley won't get a penny. LBJ, Hummel? Forget it. Football debts? I can't even think of an answer for that one. Close Brothers? What are they going to do with some big tellies and some pots and pans?
And there's our impecunious Davie. Hanging around the back of the queue hoping micromega doesn't turn into picomega. I have no idea whether he loaned his £5 million to TRFC or RIFC or if the loan was secured. Either way, he's fecked. Even if he has a secured loan on TRFC we know that it's nothing to do with Ibrox and Close brother have the kitchen sinks tied up.
It's ironic that British football is living in 'interesting times' given where the virus allegedly originated from. The whole fabric of the football environment has changed. To misquote Darwin, it will be the 'survival of the fittest'.
finnmccool 23rd March 2020 at 02:14
RIFC is a dead duck. All past investment was in RIFC not TRFC. That investment was converted into shares. TRFC owe RIFC nothing
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Not so sure about that, Fin. TRFC is RIFC's only real asset and owes RIFC every penny the parent company has passed it's way, as shown in the accounts of both companies. If RIFC goes into administration, so does TRFC though it could be sold as a going concern by the administrators of RIFC in the same way any other asset could be sold.
It's really no different than if the club was owned in it's entirety by an individual. If the individual runs out of money and becomes bankrupt then the club is an asset to be sold and the proceeds added to the creditor pot. If there is no buyer for the club then it's assets will be sold off to add to the bankrupt individual's creditor pot. The club would then be wound up or liquidated.
The only way that TRFC could possibly not owe RIFC lots of money would be if the RIFC shareholders* voted in favour of writing off the debt and the holding company, itself, has no creditors looking to be paid what they are owed.
*Not sure of the percentage required to vote it through but expect it would be 75% at least.
JJ excelling himself today. I had to look.
finnmccool 23rd March 2020 at 02:14
Don’t forget that there is two companies we are talking about. RIFC and TRFC.
I suspect (as Big Pink did) that Stuart Gibson was serious about investing in Sevco. However, as I have said on here before, I think that he wanted to buy TRFC from RIFC. There was no ‘investment’ coming.
Why?
RIFC is a dead duck.
……………..
At last year AGM king stated.
A consideration of our more devolved decision making has made me reconsider the question as to whether there continues to be benefit in a holding company for The Rangers Football Club versus the more traditional model of a single operating entity with a board that comprises executive and non-executive directors. I have therefore asked the company secretary to investigate the possibility of dismantling the holding company and issuing shareholders with the equivalent shares directly into the football operating company, The Rangers Football Club Limited. I would certainly rather own my shares directly in the football club. Further announcements will be made in due course if this proves to be viable and desirable.
………………….
Looks like king wants rid of the holding company, and in the same breath killed all the ibrox deniers that it was a holding company that died in 2012.
Allyjambo 23rd March 2020 at 10:00
finnmccool 23rd March 2020 at 02:14
RIFC is a dead duck. All past investment was in RIFC not TRFC. That investment was converted into shares. TRFC owe RIFC nothing
__________
Not so sure about that, Fin. TRFC is RIFC's only real asset and owes RIFC every penny the parent company has passed it's way, as shown in the accounts of both companies. If RIFC goes into administration, so does TRFC though it could be sold as a going concern by the administrators of RIFC in the same way any other asset could be sold.
=================================
In the RIFC accounts for 2016, £21.85m of "amounts due from subsidiaries" was reclassified as "investments in subsidiaries". It was referenced as follows:
From that point onwards, further "lending" has been been added to the "investments in subsidiaries" figure which now sits at £60.7m. That is broken down with £13.3m relating to the share swap that was done between TRFC and RIFC at the time of the IPO, and £47.4m flowing from the taps of the shareholder investors over several years.
The bottom line is that TRFC no longer "owes" that cash to RIFC.
There is one exception, the latest £5m from Laird, which is mentioned in the TRFC accounts as a loan in the post balance sheet events.
Aberdeen statement
https://www.afc.co.uk/2020/03/23/afc-update-message-from-the-chairman/
The main difference between the situation today and what it was previously is that it would be fairly straightforward to strip the club (TRFC) from the holding company (RIFC).
However if it was done in the way any "investor" would want it would mean that every investor in RIFC would lose everything they have put in. The major shareholders, Club 1872, the supporters, absolutely everyone.
I don't imagine Close would be that concerned though as the assets they have security over are owned by the subsidiary anyway.
I think the phrase we are all searching for with regard to RIFC/TRFC is that they are Donald Ducked.
They have somehow survived all past predictions of upcoming mortality but surely there is no escape this time?
Will directors take fright over what appears to be trading whilst insolvent? What are the auditors saying? Are these companies really going concerns or even likely to be in the foreseeable future? Just how Close are they to having the rug pulled out from under them? When will the amount of damages payable to SDI be quantified? Will Big Mike come to the rescue?
This is going to be tough for all clubs but I can see some schadenfreudian comfort being taken.
Scottish Football needs a strong (your club).
SFA CEO Maxwell, quoted in the GT today;
"…Everyone wants to get the games played, the guys who get the winner’s medals at the end of the season want to know they’ve played every match and no-one can come back and say they didn’t deserve it in any way…"
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First part is correct: of course, all footy fans would want all games played – if it is at all possible.
However, the second part is a pointless / inflammatory (?) comment, and Maxwell stopped just short of saying "tainted".
Jeezo.
Stick him back in the bunker…
the guys who get the winner’s medals at the end of the season want to know they’ve played every match
Eh , they might possibly just want to know that they've played in enough games to merit the award of a medal . I couldn't find the number required in a quick glance through SPFL Rules and Regs but I think it used to be ten .
Anybody else catch Nookie Bear on TV just now? I reckon he was auditioning for the job of rebuilding Scottish football and has modelled himself on all those who have done such an inspiring job previously. On the other hand, maybe he could take over at Celtic and rebuild our game that way…we'd all catch up with him at the helm and have the most competitive league in the world in no time.
The only problem is, if he does get one of those jobs, one of the idiots who voted him in as leader of the Con Party will be the next Prime Minister…
I think the PM just ruled out any behind closed door sport with his announcement about restricted gatherings.
In fact we have, in practical terms, reached the end of the season methinks.
So … back to null and void (which I certainly don't favour) or carry over to next season – with a whole host of unresolved issues (club survival, contracts, season ticket sales, other financial implication such as TV money etc etc!!!).
Although that is still a nightmare scenario for our trusted (?) football authorities, I think the latest social restrictions have removed at least one obstacle.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/23/scottish-football-season-clear-plan-squabbling
I complete the cryptic crossword in the guardian every day but I don't have a clue what Ewan Murray is trying to say here. If it comes to me over the next few days of lockdown I'll provide a translation but if anyone can help I'd greatly appreciate it.
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
Another liquidation denier . The club found itself dead . And that’s just the first two sentences .
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
========================
Can be summarised quite simply. He would like the league to be played to a finish, then adapt the 2020/21 season accordingly.
He references Scottish Football’s ability to find reasons for not doing something, but counters that with its ability to adapt and survive regardless of the obstacles it faces.
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
'..I don't have a clue what Ewan Murray is trying to say here. '
…………………
What a hopelessly unstructured , all over the place, inconsequential piece of writing!
I'd be ashamed to put my name to that, whatever points he was trying to make!
He writes like one of those hypothetical monkeys sitting at a typewriter clattering the keys ,in an experiment to see whether by pure chance it might write a 'Hamlet' or 'War and Peace'.
Absolutely appalling, definitely bottom of the class and an insult to any reader!
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
Comes over as a CFC hater as well . Why should they shoulder the burden of the other clubs' shortfall . It would just as easily given TRFC the unassailable high ground if Stewart Robertson , after his sound-bite about integrity (quiet at the back) , had offered help to the toiling opposition .
It's a piss-poor article .
"The club found itself dead."
Here it is Ewan https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/rfc-2012-plc
For those of you looking to pass away a few lockdown hours could I recommend The English Game on Netflix.
Based on fact but with a lot of artistic licence it tells the story of the development of professional football and the roll two Scottish players in particular had in changing what was The Brutal Game into The Beautiful Game.
Lucy Mangan in the Guardian gave it 1 star out of 5 but don't let that put you off as she only gave Chernobyl 3 out of 5!
It may not be to everyone's taste and some may be annoyed at the introduction of an alcoholic scottish character but for me it has been a welcome escape in difficult times!
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1242294842606190592?s=21
Big Mike, what is he like?
Adam812@00.39
English Game??
https://twitter.com/govindajeggy/status/1242388686165204993?s=21
Kudos to Big Mike
Ex Ludo 24th March 2020 at 10:00
Apparently Ashley, who pays peanuts to workers on zero hours contracts, is so kind hearted he considers the nation's health paramount but has now had a change of heart and has decided to close his 'vital to the nation' stores. Not that profit was a consideration in his original plan to stay open. No, not with Big Mike.
Maybe, like the owners of some small breweries and distilleries who've turned to producing alcohol based hand wash, he might now start producing, free of charge to the NHS, carers etc, some Personal Protective Equipment. (I do realise that PPE will probably have to be produced by licensed suppliers, but there's nothing to stop the Big Mikes of this world/country sticking some of their less than morally earned megabucks into financing the production of whatever the NHS is currently crying out for.) In the end, the lives they help save and the goodwill they foster might just produce profit for them in the future (whatever that may hold).
AJ, During WW2 a huge amount of manufacturing companies had to change their output to suit the war effort. So some companies stepping up to produce PPE etc. is not without merit or precedence.
btw, a lot of firms still made a fortune during the war!
Jimbo@11.56
Elon Musk has apparently given ventilators to California and there’s a specialist car engine tuning company in Oxfordshire switching production and re-tooling to produce medical equipment. All sorts of 3D printing going on and the workshops look like operating theatres, only cleaner.
Ex Ludo, yes I just read that after I had posted! It's the right thing to do. I hope the scientists and pharmaceutical companies are working overtime on a vaccine.
jimbo 24th March 2020 at 11:56
Yes, and as was seen with 'Red' Clyde in WW1, not only were they not satisfied with making profit from the ships they built, but when that profit was threatened by reduced payments for ships they dropped wages and upped the rents and shop prices for the workers to (for some) starvation levels.
While the smaller manufacturers may do their bit for the nation, the megabucks ones will require government intervention (if ever it comes) before they do anything for the benefit of the many.
Anyway, Jimbo, take care and stay safe. And the same for everyone on SFM and your families and friends.
https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1242444286274220035?s=21
More Big Mike news. Whit are these capitalists like?