A Question of Trust (Updated)

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by Auldheid for the Scottish Football Monitor

On these pages at least there is a mounting lack of trust that the Scottish Football Association can or will govern our game in a fair and honest manner that recognises the principle of sporting integrity as paramount.

This mistrust is equalled only by the frustration at being unable to do anything to change the attitude and action of those at the SFA (and Leagues) responsible for that governance, a frustration compounded by the reluctance of the mainstream media to focus on the very issues of trust and integrity that concern us.

Back in early 2010 Celtic supporters represented by the Celtic Trust, various Association groups and individuals felt the same frustration and found a way to make their voices heard at the SFA – by using their club as a channel of communication to articulate their concerns.

A resolution was agreed and passed to Celtic to convey to the SFA and it was heeded by the club. There is no reason in why a similar conduit cannot be used by supporters groups of all clubs.

The enormity of the task, to get the majority of trusts and associations of all clubs to support this approach and give it sufficient weight, should not be underestimated, but in the interests of amplifying our voice, it is worth the effort.

Based on that 2010 experience, and on the discussion that has taken place on TSFM we have arrived at a (now amended) resolution below under the auspices of TSFM and which has been sent to all representative club supporters groups.

We believe one of the reasons the SFA and SPL were able to mislead (or simply fail to provide leadership) was because of the lack of clarity surrounding who should take provide that leadership and what principles should have been paramount.

The SFA were as tied to the commercial impact of Rangers demise as the SPL and indeed had to be reminded by the supporters of the importance of that sporting integrity. In the aftermath of the Rangers implosion, both the SFA and Leagues on the face of it appear still too commercially oriented to act in a way that balances commercialism and sporting principles.

We have attempted to address this in the resolution below. It also contains additional points raised already on TSFM and elsewhere. It is designed to assist in the widening of accountability in the sport.

We are not wed to the draft or the language. It is there to be revised but we hope it contains enough food for thought to be acceptable to the supporters groups and the clubs.

As recently as today, the SFA has published a Fans Charter. We welcome this development, and although it does not address our specific concerns with respect to governance it is a step in the right direction (http://www.fanscharter.com/).

Some of the principles published are;

  • Challenge is to make a National Fans Charter known, accepted and influential
  • Getting fan involvement in drafting charter important to acceptance,  influence and growing awareness.

We think our resolution is an even bigger step in the direction of those principles.

DRAFT Proposal for Representative Supporter Groups e.g. Trusts or Associations to send to their club to convey to the SFA/SPL/SFL Boards.

We [Insert Association/Trust name here] and in association with fans’ groups of other clubs, ask [Insert Club name here] to convey the following to the Scottish Football Association, SPL and SFL on our behalf.

1         We believe that the commercial viability of Scottish football at the professional level depends absolutely on the belief by supporters that sporting integrity is at the heart of all competition, and that those governing them and the rules by which they exercise governance, must hold sporting integrity as paramount above ALL other concerns. This belief can be summed up in the one word “trust” Without trust in those responsible for governing Scottish Football, commercial viability will suffer, to eventual ruin of our game.

2         There is a perception (accompanied by some dismay and anger) among football supporters throughout Scotland that those who were charged with upholding the rules of the SFA and SPL/SFL, only did so partially – and even then only because of the threat of supporter action if they did not.
3         There appears to be no distinction or order of hierarchy between those governing the game (the SFA) for whom we believe preservation of sporting integrity should be the prime purpose, and the leagues (SPL/SFL) for whom commercial aspects are (understandably) uppermost. As a result sporting integrity lost its primacy and it was left to supporters to insist on it.

4         Consequently many Scottish football supporters have lost confidence that the Scottish Football Association will fulfil their purpose of safeguarding the sport. Indeed their silence following the revelation of a 5 way agreement last summer on the future of the liquidated Glasgow Rangers has exacerbated this loss of confidence in the SFA’s ability to administer professional football in Scotland in a manner that reflects their duty of care to all aspects of the game and everyone who takes part in it.

5         Decisions and deals have been taken by the SFA, SPL, and SFL without any public scrutiny. The operations and decisions of those bodies lack transparency and they are not accountable in any recognisable form to the football supporters throughout the land, without whom there is no professional association.


6         In our view this loss of trust can only begin to be restored by the SFA publically committing  itself to:

(i)                  The production of an unequivocal “mission” statement of purpose/intent which will state (in whatever form they may exist) that maintaining sporting integrity is and will always be their prime goal. The statement will also describe how they intend to ensure this principle is followed in their interactions with Leagues and Clubs, particularly when commercial decisions that might undermine sporting integrity are implemented by the Leagues. (e.g. In the case of TV contracts, sponsorship or any significant league reconstruction).

(ii)                Further: in recognition of the inability of some individuals to provide leadership during the past year simply because of conflicts of interest, take steps to remove any such conflict, and in doing so enable the organisation and its office bearers to function unhindered.

(iii)               In the interests of transparency, publish the “five point agreement” that allowed The Rangers entry into SFL and SFA, provide a supporting rationale for entering into the agreement, and confirm that the terms have been or are being complied with.

Along with other trust restoring measures (see attached Annex) these steps should mark the end of the continuing lack of trust in the authorities.

7.         We appreciate that it may be the start of next season before there is any visible evidence of our concerns being addressed although the statement of purpose/intent by the SFA (i) and action at (ii) can be readily put in place – would be a welcome early development.

8.         All club’s supporters groups will be watching closely for signs of progress before advising our members and our other supporters if we feel the necessary trust restoring steps are being taken and advise that they can purchase their season books for 2013/14 knowing that sporting integrity is once more absolutely paramount in Scottish football to the betterment of our game.

Signed __________________________ on behalf of

[Insert supporter trust/association name here]

Date ______________

Annex to resolution.

The following is a list of other measures that the SFA should take in order to satisfy supporters that they should be entrusted with the job of governing Scottish football.

  1. To increase transparency and accountability in a meaningful way – possibly via creation of an active supporter’s liaison group drawn from representative supporter groups of each club. Its remit, using an agreed consultative mechanism to generate dialogue, to hear supporters’ concerns and consider them before key decisions are made. In an industry that is totally interdependent it is folly to exclude a major stakeholder from key decision making.
  2. A tightening of and an annual and independent audit of the process for granting UEFA Club (FFP) and National Club licensing reporting to the representative supporter liaison group as well as other SFA members to ensure all clubs are living within their means.
  3. Introduction of a rule requiring all Scottish football club directors to declare any financial interest/shareholding in any club other than their own and to rule that disposition of those shares/interest should be a part of a fit and proper assessment of a person’s qualification to hold office at an association club.
  4. A feasibility review of Scottish refereeing to assess the potential for creating a professional service that the SFA provide to the leagues by recruiting and training referees, but where the leagues monitor and reward consistently good performances to an agreed standard. Given the sums dependent on referee decisions, the current system must change for everyone’s sake including the referees.
  5. A full explanation about the circumstances (including dates) surrounding the award of a UEFA Club licence to Rangers in spring/summer of 2011 when there was unpaid social tax that prime facie did not meet the conditions for deeming the granting of a licence acceptable under the UEFA FFP rules on unpaid tax (the wee tax bill).

The [Insert Club Name here] Trust/Supporters Association asks [Insert Club Name here] to convey our concerns above with their provenance to the appropriate authorities as they see fit viz:

    • Football Authority in Scotland (The SFA)
    • Europe (UEFA)
    • Scottish Government (on the issue of accountability to supporters and       proper checks and balance governance.)
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About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,893 thoughts on “A Question of Trust (Updated)”


  1. Let me rephrase that – do we have a source other than Mr Green for the current wage bill?


  2. If as Charlie suggests…it was a gentlemans agreement and nothing was written as an official agreement…then surely it is one of 2 possibilities…they are asking for more than agreed or he is attempting to pay less than agreed..

    Who to believe?

    Well we do have a track record of Charlie offering less than the agreed sum….Hearts…Rapid…

    My money is on Charlie being the rogue in this deal!


  3. I’ve just seen the headline regarding ‘The Rangers’ offering Murray Park to Juventus to train on prior to the CL tie with Celtic.
    Is this how desperate this club has become in attempting to get themselves mentioned with Celtic and the CL. It is becoming so transparent it’s embarrassing. Well actually it became embarrassing some time ago.
    Still perhaps Juventus will play the CL song for Chas so he can hear it.
    Every time he opens his mouth he must mention ‘The Rangers’ and at the same time bring Celtic into it as this keeps alive, in the eyes of his support, the myth that in some way there still is an ‘Old Firm’ link.
    They are like a spoiled child craving attention at every turn. If there is no attention forethcoming it will misbehave just to keep itself in the limelight.
    They give the media lines of utter nonsense to print and the media duely comply while at the same time the big questions go unanswered and more importantly for the record unasked.

    Can anyone imagine what the reaction of the Scottish media would have been if any club had offered their training facilities prior to a euro tie against Rangers.

    Surely at least a boycott would have been called!


  4. angus1983 says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 16:57
    2 0 Rate This
    Let me rephrase that – do we have a source other than Mr Green for the current wage bill?
    ================================
    From the IPO Prospectus:

    3.2 Operating expenditure
    RFCL has incurred the following operating expenses since incorporation:
    3 month period to 31 August 2012
    £’000
    Staff costs 3,508
    Other operating charges 1,920
    Hire of plant and machinery 40
    Depreciation of property plant and equipment 69
    Revenue grants (59)
    Auditor’s remuneration 9
    Total operating expenses 5,487

    Player costs are RFCL’s most significant expenditure, including £2.1 million in respect of the
    first team playing squad. Only seven of the 2011/12 squad have remained with the Club, with a
    further two players going out on loan. First team player salary costs are contractual and each player’s salary is unique.
    Other operating charges include matchday costs, such as policing, stewarding and pitch costs.
    ===============
    Annualising the above figures gives players’ wages of £8.4m, out of a total wage bill of £14m. The player figure will be less than that due to the departure of a few high earners, so Green’s figure of £6m looks credible. Even so, that still gives a total wage bill of £12m, clearly unsustainable, and maybe why other bills aren’t being paid on time?


  5. neepheid says:

    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 17:24

    Based on the propsectus there was an interesting exchange between Stephensanph, EcoJohn, Coybig and Adam where the consensus was the tota wage bill was £14.5M covering players wages (45), admin staff (175) Directors (at least 3) and NI/tax.

    The breakdown is not provided but players wages will be over 50% of total.


  6. Celtic Joe KDS

    Orlit Enterprises, who are threatening Rangers with a Winding Up Order over a contested bill for £400,000, appear to be a bit of a mystery. They have an office in Singapore alongside Unilegal, the law firm that Orlit’s known director Chan Fook Meng is connected with. But who else is involved?
    Well, let’s track back a bit. Charles Green’s last role before being called in to front the Rangers takeover was with AIM-listed Nova Resources, where Chan Fook Meng was also a director.
    This company was previously known as Tembusu Investments, but changed its name after its then Chairman and Chief Executive Rafat Rizvi was convicted of corruption and money laundering charges in Indonesia involving a total of £367million.
    When Rizvi resigned, his place was taken by Ms Zhang Yun, whose CV indicates that one of her positions was as
    Director of Orlit Enterprise (Singapore) Pte Ltd.

    Oh, and she’s also the WIFE of convicted money launderer Rafat Rizvi.

    So that’s the type of company Green looked to when he needed help raising the funds for his takeover.
    And that’s the type of company Green has already paid cash to, despite his spokesman accusing them of inflating bills and even faking invoices.
    No wonder Green wanted the Press to decide this matter was “unworthy of comment”.

    PS: The decision to allow Mrs Rizvi to take her convicted man’s place as boss of Tembusu was approved by the firm’s nominated advisers Allenby Capital.
    Allenby’s representative at Tembusu? Rangers Director Brian Stockbridge.

    http://www.investegate.co.uk/article.aspx?id=20100122101109W2129
    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/city-spy-law-may-be-closing-in-on-runaway-rizvi-6400392.html


  7. I am amazed that people in the MSM in Scotland and ex players of Sevco quite happily use the word Administration but never ever use the Liquidation word in relation to matters refering to the Oldco/Newco shenanigans from last year. Howzat?


  8. Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 17:59

    They entered Administration and………………….. Never came out.
    True though the L word , (shoooosssshhhh) is never mentioned, a bit like their songbook, Manchester, The cup in the toilet in Barcelona, the subsequent ban …..
    Re-writing of History.


  10. andy says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 16:02

    Re: Melbourne Q&A
    A few points such as claiming a internationalist who is sponsored $25 million a year who offered to play for nothing….yet he wouldn’t name said player. Few statements like that annoyed me but on the whole impressed with the man. He seem to have really got into the role and the fact he sees that everyone else in Scottish football hates us might work in our favour as he’s up for battle
    ====================================================

    That is bizarre. The guy clearly sees that Green talks a load of rubbish yet still thinks he’s good for his team? I mean when you can see some of the things someone tells you are unbelievable wouldn’t you normally tend to disbelieve the other stuff rather than assuming they’re true? It’s weird (to me anyway).


  11. TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) on Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 17:54

    If it is the case that Orlit are a mystery – does this say a lot?

    If you were reptuable with a trusted reputation more likely than not you would seek the services of a equally reptuable entity to help you secure funding for a takeover e.g. a merchant bank.

    Has CG secured the services of a reptuable entity to help with his takeover?


  12. Thanks neep.

    Sometimes it’s easy to lose track of whether things are factual or speculative where TRFC are concerned. 🙂


  14. justshatered says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 17:08

    I wouldn’t be so hard on Mr Green and his offer to Juve to use Rangers training facilities.

    Not so long ago that Italians of a certain persuasion wouldn’t have got anywhere near a Rangers facility.

    I say hooray to Charlie for ensuring that the new Rangers are well and truly committed to dumping elements of oldco’s past.


  18. torrejohnbhoy says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 20:25

    http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/credit-and-credibility/#more-3537

    ————————————————————————————-

    Phil is teasing his audience again, albeit he can’t reveal all and prejudice his source. A couple of days ago we had the Ibrox communications guru stating this was a non-story and unworthy of further comment. That individual will know that there is more to the saga than he declares. I take it for granted that TRFC PR people monitor the internet bloggers as a matter of course. Having read Phil’s latest piece they will be crapping themselves as to just how much of the saga is now in the public domain. If they, as promised, say nowt then further revelations might blow up in their faces. If they change their minds and decide it is after all worthy of further comment then doing so may make the hole an awful lot deeper for them.

    A good old Yorkshire saying (and one that Charlie might be familiar with) is “Phil is putting a lump of coal on the fire”.


  19. Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 18:28

    Re earlier post. 1 ex player breaks that rule..M Hatley. ‘Rangers are climbing out of Liquidation’ Warning…Genius at work..

    ——————————————————————————

    To be fair to Hateley, his column is ghost written for him. Probably the only input he has is to say, “That sounds great” when the Daily Record hack reads the draft to him over the phone. I doubt the bold Mark could write his own name, farless a feature on the state of Scottish football.
    We must therefore lay the blame on the editor of the Daily Record for allowing such ill-informed and ignorant articles to be penned by his sports writers. None of them appear to have the simplest grasp of administration or liquidation, so we shouldn’t just point the finger at this stuttering fanny


  20. Mark Hateley really is someone to read (acknowledging Tommy rightly pointing out it is ghost written)

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/footb….deliver-1244824

    RANGERS kick off life in the Third Division tomorrow. There’s a sentence I never thought I’d utter.

    But it’s reality and when Alastair McCoist’s men run out at Peterhead it will be a new beginning. This new stage for the club has already started, of course, with the wins over Brechin and East Fife in two cup competitions.

    Those victories were to be expected but then again Rangers will be favourites to win every match they play against teams from Divisions One, Two and Three in the league and cups this season. As they should be.

    But what if, or when, they draw an SPL outfit in either the Scottish Cup or League Cup?

    I can’t wait for that to happen because there will be a huge amount of interest in how they get on against a top-tier team and I am convinced McCoist has already factored such an eventuality into his thinking.

    Believe me, Rangers will want out of the Third Division as quickly as possible and the squad he has will win that league at a canter. He won’t thank me for saying it but on a week to week basis Rangers should win every game comfortably, home and away.

    That’s not to say there will be the odd freak result. They might draw a game here or there and there could even be a one-off defeat at some ground but the bottom line is the league will be won easily.

    So that leaves the cups and knowing the manager as I do there’s no doubt in my mind he is now gearing up to deliver silverware to Ibrox this season in the shape of the League Cup, the Scottish Cup or both.

    And given everything that has happened to that club over the past 12 months, winning one of the domestic cup competitions would be celebrated by the Rangers as one of the most significant victories in the 140 years of the club’s existence.

    The competitor in McCoist will be desperate to do it and the five players he has brought to the club in the
    past couple of weeks are a statement of intent.

    Ian Black, Dean Shiels and Francisco Sandaza have proved themselves in the SPL and have not been bought to get Rangers out of the lowest league. That trio have been signed for the day the club is returned to the top division.

    That might be next season, who knows? League reconstruction will come sooner or later and McCoist has to have in place a squad that compete and challenge for the title the moment it happens. That trio will help him do that and there will be others to follow.

    The two others who have been signed are more difficult to assess. Big Kevin Kyle, when fit, is a handful for any defence but hasn’t had his injury worries to seek. I don’t think he can be considered a long-term signing – yet. But the big fella might well be if his hip holds up.

    The other player to come in, Emilson Cribari, won’t be as well known to the Rangers support but a look at his CV suggests he will be a good addition.

    The Brazilian is 32, has played Champions League with Lazio and made more than 100 appearances for the Serie A side. Alastair has looked at him in training and clearly believes he is of a standard to come in and replace Dorin Goian or Carlos Bocanegra if they leave before the transfer window shuts.

    McCoist’s signing policy has been backed in hard cash by Charles Green and the new owners of Rangers. They know that when September 1 comes, they will not have to fork out for players again until January 1, 2014, so to a degree they have to stockpile now and have not shied away from doing so.

    It’s no secret the manager and the new people running the club have had their issues. It’s hardly surprising given the situation Rangers have been in but when Alastair urged fans to buy season tickets this week, that was significant.

    He hasn’t publicly endorsed the Green regime before but he must now be more comfortable with the direction in which the owners are moving the club.

    If he wasn’t, he would have continued to stay silent.

    Now though, the Rangers support which might have been swithering about whether to buy season books are much more likely to commit their cash to the club. They trust Alastair because he is the one man who has kept Rangers going throughout the most turbulent phase in their history.

    To their credit, the supporters have been fantastic. That attendance against East Fife the other night was staggering. What other club would have attracted a crowd of more than 38,000 for a game such as that?

    The fans have been as unwavering as McCoist through all this. He has been hugely appreciative of the way they have stood by Rangers and he knows they will continue to do so.

    He wants to reward them for their loyalty, I have no doubt about that.

    And the biggest reward he can give them is the Scottish Cup or the League Cup. This season.

    =============================

    What about a Ramsden’s Cup win Mark, would that do … d’oh.


  22. Tommy says:

    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 20:51

    4

    0

    Rate This

    Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 18:28

    Re earlier post. 1 ex player breaks that rule..M Hatley. ‘Rangers are climbing out of Liquidation’ Warning…Genius at work..

    ——————————————————————————

    To be fair to Hateley, his column is ghost written for him. Probably the only input he has is to say, “That sounds great” when the Daily Record hack reads the draft to him over the phone. I doubt the bold Mark could write his own name, farless a feature on the state of Scottish football.
    We must therefore lay the blame on the editor of the Daily Record for allowing such ill-informed and ignorant articles to be penned by his sports writers. None of them appear to have the simplest grasp of administration or liquidation, so we shouldn’t just point the finger at this stuttering fanny
    ===========================
    Understand Tommy. Whether it is Hatley himself or a worn out hack writing for scraps the original point still stands. None of these so called journalists use the liquidation word. ‘Administration’ seems to be acceptable but the ‘L’ word does not get uttered. History being airbrushed on a daily basis.


  24. 9 Feb 2013, 06:32 PM
    matt mcglone ‏@MattMcGlone9

    Impeccable source tells me that Sevco chairman Malcolm Murray wishes an introduction to Dermot Desmond to “create a working relationship


  25. Sevco Timeline:

    January 2012: Singapore-based Nova Resources, owned by convicted bank fraudster Rafat Ali Rizvi, appoints Charles Green as Chairman.

    May 2012: Charles Green resigns as Chairman of Nova Resources to concentrate on Rangers takeover bid.

    June 2012: It is claimed that Charles Green hired Orlit Enterprises (Singapore) Pte Ltd – whose directors include Nova Resources directors Chan Fook Meng and Zhang Yun (wife of convicted bank fraudster Rafat Ali Rizvi) – to source “seed funding” for the Sevco 5088/Sevco Scotland takeover attempt.

    February 2013: It emerges that Sevco have already paid unconfirmed sums to Orlit Enterprises relating to two invoices for services rendered but are being threatened with a Winding Up Order over their failure to pay for two disputed (and allegedly “faked”) invoices totalling £400,000.


  26. Scotzine ‏@scotzine
    Just came into some info on CG will need to do a bit of confirmation before publishing as its a stoater. #whyte-esq
    Expand

    8h Steven ‏@StevenOliver74
    @scotzine #whyte will we find out what it is before the end of this game?
    Expand

    8h Scotzine ‏@scotzine
    @StevenOliver74 nope later tonight am supposed to be working lol
    Expand

    7h Steven ‏@StevenOliver74
    @scotzine on scale of 1 – 10 how good is this story? Will the TRIFC fans be devastated when they hear it?
    Expand

    7h Scotzine ‏@scotzine
    @StevenOliver74 but i may be over hyping it
    Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More

    Reply to @scotzine @StevenOliver74

    7h Scotzine ‏@scotzine
    @StevenOliver74 we shall see id rate it above an 8


  28. Charles Green, the Rangers chief executive, has reiterated that while the financial situation at the Ibrox club is more stable, plans still need to be put in place to cope with the prospect of suffering “seven years of famine”.

    That reference was intended to express the need for the club to continue to pursue new revenue streams – notably Green’s controversial plan to sell the naming rights for Ibrox.

    The chief executive has grown to become a popular figure among the majority of the Rangers support but his proposal to allow a sponsor to rename the club’s home has still proved jarring. He accepts that the issue will always be “an emotive subject” but it has been a hard sell for fans who are regularly told that 48,000 fans go to home games and that the club’s flotation on the London Stock Exchange’s junior Alternative Investment Market in December raised £22.2m through large institutions as well as smaller investors, including fans.

    Green has, however, repeated his belief that his club must remain committed to fiscal prudence and is unwavering that selling the naming rights to Ibrox will represent good business in the long run.

    “I reply by quoting part of the Bible and how seven years of feast is followed by seven years of famine,” said Green in an interview with media in Dubai. “At the moment, we are in a feast: we have 48,000 fans coming through the turnstiles, we have cash in the bank and are in a very, very positive zone. But there will be bad times as well.

    is the new motto Aye in the reddy


  29. The year of The Snake has started 🙂 how appropriate 🙂


  30. StevieBC says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 21:51

    3

    0

    Rate This

    =======================

    That’s weird, the teenager (?) just above “SFA” seems to have been been replaced by a computer generated image.


  31. dentarthurdent42 says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 22:30…
    That’s weird, the teenager (?) just above “SFA” seems to have been been replaced by a computer generated image.
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    ..that's the whole problem,this RFC-Sevco-TRFC-RIFC "freak show" is completely CG i…!!

    see what a did there.? 🙂


  32. liveinhop says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 21:37
    9 Feb 2013, 06:32 PM
    matt mcglone ‏@MattMcGlone9

    Impeccable source tells me that Sevco chairman Malcolm Murray wishes an introduction to Dermot Desmond to “create a working relationship
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    What if
    A certain CEO offered Juventus free training facilities next week
    And
    All he asked in return was two tickets to the Directors Box and the after match dinner for the return match
    What PR opportunities could this provide?

    Could it be naughty headlines like?

    “I was refused a seat on the Celtic plane despite Juventus pleading with Peter Lawell?”

    “I was ignored throughout the match and snubbed at the after match dinner by every single member of the Celtic Board?”

    I apologised to my Hosts for offensive singing by the Celtic support and explained it was something we were trying to eradicate in Scotland”

    Or even something “positive” like

    “At the after match dinner I had a useful discussion on how reconstruction can help improve the terms of the current Sky deal”
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Or would any headline be better than the winding up issue


  34. What if the gentlemen’s agreement had been for a further £400k if and when the IPO reached a certain amount. CG has been claiming £22m so they are entitled to it. CG is trying to tell them well it is really only £9m. Well you can’t have it both ways.


  36. abcott says:

    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 00:09

    Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain) says:

    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 00:27

    Nice – spivs fighting over cash 🙂


  37. Long Time Lurker says:
    Nice – spivs fighting over cash 🙂
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    LTL..you could possibly be onto something here,RIFC money spinning RM media idea's.Dovetailing nicely with their pay per view 5000m subscribers & on line t.v. broadcasts ? what about….
    Antiques Spiv show..
    Spiv's in the attic..
    Spiv or no Spiv…
    I'm a Spiv..get me out of here..
    Take me out..(i'm a Spiv)
    Big (Spiv) Brother..
    Coronation Spiv..
    You've been Spiv'd..
    8 out of 10 Spiv's..
    Master Spiv…etc..etc,

    maybe its just me…. 🙂


  38. goosygoosy says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 23:54
    “liveinhop says:
    Saturday, February 9, 2013 at 21:37
    —
    matt mcglone ‏@MattMcGlone9

    Impeccable source tells me that Sevco chairman Malcolm Murray wishes an introduction to Dermot Desmond to “create a working relationship”
    ___
    It’s 1.20 p.m here in Brisbane, so good morning all.
    .
    I’d rather Matt reported from an infallible source rather than a sinless one!
    ,
    Malcolm Murray ,if he is any kind of business man,, may very well be trying to do the sensible thing-face up to reality.
    CG uttering biblical quotes about seven years’ of famine ( a new ‘Famine Song”” , to be produced,maybe,,for Sevco fans?) must cause him to tear his hair out.
    This Murray knows that Sevco will die, just as Rangers FC did, under the lunatic direction they have been pursuing in defiance (it’s a kind of Sevco word) of any kind of sound, realistic cutting of cloth to suit coats.

    The Orlit PR disaster points up clearly that CG is living in a fantasy world, in which” reality”is what you wish it to be, and language means what you choose it to mean, and truth and falsehood are consistently and bafflingly entwined like the utterings of a deranged mind.

    If Murray did not want to meet Desmond, he would be off his head.

    I suspect, though, that if Desmond even thought of ‘doing business’ with Murray, he would similarly be off his head.

    ,


  39. ‘FORMER Rangers supremo Craig Whyte faces going bankrupt and losing his Highland castle — for failing to cough up a £200,000 SFA fine.

    Hampden chiefs have now been chasing the defiant tycoon for the cash for almost TEN MONTHS.

    But last week they finally lost patience and lodged papers at court demanding the money.

    Whyte was hit with the fines last April for bringing the game into disrepute following his catastrophic nine-month reign at Ibrox.

    Lawyers delivered the writ last week to the businessman’s £720,000 Castle Grant home near Grantown-on-Spey, Moray.

    Hampden insiders say the proceedings give him a final chance to pay up before a full court action — which could see the stately home seized — gets under way.

    But a source close to Whyte insisted he would not be handing over a penny — and instead he has told pals that he plans to sue the SFA for £40MILLION in loss of earnings and damage to his reputation.

    The insider revealed: “Never mind the SFA bankrupting him, he would love to bankrupt the SFA.

    “He believes they failed to follow due process and the evidence they used was flawed — and has since been proved to be wrong.”

    Venture capitalist Whyte, 42, had a string of failed businesses behind him, but managed to buy Rangers for just £1 from Sir David Murray in May 2011 — when HMRC’s now-failed tax case was still looming over the club.

    But last February, oldco Rangers were plunged into administration then liquidation, having racked up massive debts during Whyte’s tenure — including around £14million of unpaid tax.

    It also emerged Whyte had failed to tell the SFA — led by chief exec Stewart Regan — he had been banned as a director for seven years from 2000.

    The SFA appointed a three-man judicial panel to probe the shambles, led by QC Gary Allan.

    It hit Rangers — now a new company run by businessman Charles Green — with sanctions including a transfer embargo.

    Whyte himself got a £50,000 fine for bringing the game into disrepute, and three separate £50,000 penalties for blanking the SFA tribunal process.

    But when the verdict was announced, Whyte said: “Good luck collecting the money. It’s a joke.”

    During the tycoon’s time in charge at Ibrox, Rangers manager Ally McCoist had to stay quiet about his reign.

    However, he revealed recently: “We always had a feeling that all was not well. Inside here we knew all was not kicking along nicely. We didn’t know precisely what the problems were, but we did know there was trouble brewing.”

    And when Whyte claimed he would like to come back to Rangers one day after the club had gone into administration, McCoist said: “At best it would be ill-advised for Craig Whyte to come back to Ibrox.”

    Whyte launched his business career when he was just 15 years old and made more than £20,000 from buying and selling shares before he left school.

    He went on to work for his dad’s plant hire company before setting up one of his own — which failed with debts of £300,000. The Monaco-based tycoon then branched out into security, manufacturing and property and claimed to be Scotland’s youngest self-made millionaire at 26.

    The stand-off over Whyte’s fine cash means the dispute is hurtling towards all-out war, with official papers now lodged by the SFA at Glasgow Sheriff Court.

    A legal source said: “This one could run and run.

    “The SFA think they are due the money because when Whyte took over Rangers, he agreed to abide by SFA membership rules and accept any fair punishments they impose. The SFA obviously threw the book at him.

    “Of course, Whyte could argue that the £200,000 punishment was unreasonable and unjustified. He might also argue that the fine doesn’t lawfully apply to him.

    “There is a suggestion that he could use a loophole by saying that he was the club’s owner, and the SFA rules only applied to club ‘officials’.

    “So there’s a long way to go, and proceedings also get expensive for the SFA.”

    Last night the SFA confirmed a writ had been served but said it could not give any further details on the action. A spokesman added: “Since the matter is ongoing, the Association will be making no further comment.”

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/4787554/Ex-Ibrox-chief-Craig-Whytes-castle-under-siege.html#ixzz2KS7gpKyX


  40. Further tweet from Corsica:

    @corsica1968: For clarity, RST spent £250,000 buying 357,142 shares at a price of 70p per share (69p per share more expensive than charles
    and pals).


  42. Isn’t it funny how the Scottish MSM describe money problems at football clubs….

    For instance Hearts and Kilmarnock….it’s the football club who have problems….

    But when it’s SEVCO….it’s the holding company?

    Funny that!


  44. ,
    liveinhop says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 07:02

    9

    1

    Rate This

    ==========================================================================

    Re Craig Whyte’s threat to countersue the SFA, this may be very, very interesting.

    I, for one look forward to finding out what CW will reveal about that sleekit lot. Hope you
    have it all recorded Craigie. Gaun yersel son!


  45. The legal question I have is….

    If the liquidated club used VAT money to continue paying players for season 2011-2012 are BDO entitled to receive that money? as the taking of VAT I believe is a criminal offence…

    Can BDO demand prize money that was achieved on the back of a criminal offence?


  46. Spiers: http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/legacy-of-fear-still-casts-long-shadow-over-our-game.20165716

    Again what we’ve seen recently, admitting some things didn’t want to admit previously but still adding spin to the whole thing.

    For instance admits the “aggressive and febrile” words and actions of TRFC supporters but excuses it somewhat (gloating of opposition fans, psychological scars of near death of club) and fails to state it is totally unwarranted.

    Says SPL still needs a strong Rangers – talks of millions in money going out of game while not pointing out that most of money that went out of the game used to go to Rangers. That the gap in actual money lost that other clubs really experienced is not that difficult to make up. That problems being experienced were experienced when TRFC were in the top league. I won’t go over this here – it’s been discussed a million times on this site.

    I know I’m adding nothing new – except maybe that while some aspects are being admitted now it’s always qualified by “the game needs Rangers”.


  47. The SFA cannot chase an individual for £ 200,000. The courts would throw it out.

    Any more news on what Doncaster has done with last years second place prize money ?

    It could not get tied into the LNS punishment could it ?


  48. You would think that the goings on this week would have set a couple of alarm bells ringing at the SFA (although they say they have no power over the leagues.)

    However it was the SFA National Club Licensing committee or SFA men with that expertise who would have looked at the business case The Rangers put forward in lieu of 3 years past accounts in order to grant a football licence to The Rangers.

    There are two current lelements of concern for the business, the one that Phil Mac refers to that is the liquid cash value of the share price that is on tap as a safety blanket should the need arise to draw on it and the size of the wage bill.

    The former may be confidential to The Rangers but the SFA (assuming players have been properly registered) will have a very good idea of the wage bill and from the prospectus and earlier accounts the other non player wage costs.

    The Rangers supporters are quite rightly getting a bit twitchy over the well being of what many of them have paid hard earned cash into and even if only to assure them that the SFA are keeping an eye on the situation, it surely behoves the SFA to come out with something that says they ARE keeping an eye on the situation and will, if they deem it necessary, seek clarification on where The Rangers now are in terms of matching the original business case that enabled a licence to be granted with the latest figures.

    Our game got into a mess imo because the SFA over many years did not carry out its club licensing responsibilities properly in respect of Rangers, (something the msm have not focusssed on) they surely cannot expect to turn another blind eye and remain as a body with any credibility or authority.

    The SFA – Shell of a Football Association.

    I see no point whatsoever in The Rangers supporters wanting to shoot every messenger who delivers what they would prefer not to hear, they would be far more effective turning their ire and attention on the SFA.


  49. paulmac2 says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 11:22
    3 0 Rate This
    The legal question I have is….

    If the liquidated club used VAT money to continue paying players for season 2011-2012 are BDO entitled to receive that money? as the taking of VAT I believe is a criminal offence…

    Can BDO demand prize money that was achieved on the back of a criminal offence?
    ————————————————————-
    I’m sure if craig whtye taking over 9 million of V.A.T and P.A.Y.E and using it to fund a buisness that was supposedly trading whilst insolvent was illegal,then at the very least he should be arrested and questioned.

    Has he been arrested or questioned?I don’t think he has,so have to assume that what he did was infact legal.Given the posted article earlier where he intends to sue the S.F.A for 40 million,he does’nt seem to be a man in fear of the authorities.


  50. chipsandblog says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 12:03
    0 0 Rate This
    The SFA cannot chase an individual for £ 200,000. The courts would throw it out.

    Any more news on what Doncaster has done with last years second place prize money ?

    It could not get tied into the LNS punishment could it ?

    ================================================

    Why does ANYONE think RFC (oldco) are entitled to the second placed prize money? They withheld 12-15M of Tax, VAT and NI, not to mention stiffing creditors (footballing and otherwise) of millions

    Had Rangers paid their bills/taxes, they would have been out of business in September and would have been liquidated mid season – with no sham drawn out admin or transfer of ownership to save them during a mid season.

    RFC cheated to finish in second place – they deserve HUGE fines and league expulsion for corrupting the SPL, not to receive prize money.

    As for Sevco thinking they should get it…..well, away and hurl keech at the moon


  52. Lots of talk about just how much was exactly raised by the share issue. When will we categorically find out the real amount raised?


  53. bartinmain says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 13:01
    0 0 Rate This
    Lots of talk about just how much was exactly raised by the share issue. When will we categorically find out the real amount raised?

    ——–

    August 2014 at the very earliest as this is the date for audited accounts I suspect all accounts up to then will be cleverly presented


  55. bartinmain says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 13:01
    ============

    The same day as the 5 way agreement is made public, never.


  56. Bartinmain says

    There’s always mention of the share issue/income with regard to TRFC, but remember this was for another company – RIFC! There is no guarantee or obligation on RIFC to spend a red cent of TRFC! RIFC owns TRFC, but its not TRFC and has no football obligations.

    CG couldn’t put TRFC on the AIM market, so he floats another company “linked” to TRFC using one of the same words in the title, and hey presto! free kudos and history!

    Looks like CG has as usual managed to deflect and confuse the MSM, and sometimes some of us, as a good magician does.

    As I understand it, “rangers” as decribed by CG (as being a family of entities) might be better off after the share issue, but the football club bit isn’t. Unless the directors of RIFC wish to give money away to another company.
    How likely is that?


  57. Isn’t there a requirement to submit accounts to the SFL before 2014?


  58. If Aug 2014 is the earliest that RIFC might submit audited accounts, when is the earliest that TRFC could submit audited accounts? These are presumably critical to get the clock ticking for potential European participation, and persuade backers that they have a realistic timescale they are working to to get to this goal?


  59. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 12:33

    As for Sevco thinking they should get it…..well, away and hurl keech at the moon

    ————–

    Who needs latin dictums (dicta?) when we can rely on such well balanced and succinct summaries from our resident cognoscenti? That made logging in today well worth the effort.


  60. TW (@tartanwulver) says:

    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 13:42

    But they don’t need audited accounts to play in Europe, do they?!? Shirley it’s just a ‘ban’, for some unfair reason that they can’t really fathom!


  61. Have to admit that when the story of the winding up order broke, I thought ‘Here we go again, some vague trace of a story being built up into something it’s not.’

    As Alex Thompson said, winding up orders don’t really mean much in themselves. I’m sure even AllyJambo would admit that HMRC probably don’t even bother checking if Hearts actually owe them money anymore – they just automatically fire off a letter every 3 months to apply for a WUO in order to put pressue on!

    As of Thursday, I expected TRFC to release a statement saying that there was nothing for fans to worry about, WUO were regularly used as leverage to get payment, they didn’t agree with the payment and would contest it, but even if somehow it did come about that they would be forced to pay, then they would, but they would rather not.

    Simply saying that would have satiated the bears, soothed their concerns, and also managed to imply it was yet another ‘Timmy overblowing of a non-story’ in one fell swoop.

    I’m not a PR professional, and yet even I could see that.

    Having read what they ACTUALLY responded with, I’m now thoroughly convinced, along with virtually everyone else, that they are up to their necks in the brown stuff, which I’m sure is the exact opposite of what they wanted. I don’t know what JT thought he was playing at. I can only concur with the view that without his Record sub-editor to tidy up his prose, he’s lost.


  62. liveinhop says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 07:02

    Venture capitalist Whyte, 42, had a string of failed businesses behind him, but managed to buy Rangers for just £1 from Sir David Murray in May 2011 — when HMRC’s now-failed tax case was still looming over the club.

    =====================================

    There was no “HMRC tax case”, it was an appeal, with the appellant being MIH not HMRC.

    MIH partially won that appeal and HMRC are now appealing that decision to a higher tribunal.

    Let’s not get facts in the way of propaganda though, just call it “HMRC’s now-failed tax case ” even though that description is totally incorrect.


  63. Robert Coyle says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 12:20

    paulmac2 says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 11:22

    The legal question I have is….

    If the liquidated club used VAT money to continue paying players for season 2011-2012 are BDO entitled to receive that money? as the taking of VAT I believe is a criminal offence…

    Can BDO demand prize money that was achieved on the back of a criminal offence?
    ————————————————————-
    I’m sure if craig whtye taking over 9 million of V.A.T and P.A.Y.E and using it to fund a buisness that was supposedly trading whilst insolvent was illegal,then at the very least he should be arrested and questioned.

    Has he been arrested or questioned?I don’t think he has,so have to assume that what he did was infact legal.Given the posted article earlier where he intends to sue the S.F.A for 40 million,he does’nt seem to be a man in fear of the authorities.
    …………………………………………………………………..

    HMRC do not have the power to arrest for VAT evasion. They have the power to investigate and to instigate either a civil or criminal case.

    Witholding VAT is not legal business practice.

    Is he in fear of the authorities…I would guess not…when you consider how he conducts his business.

    How and ever the question still stands….can BDO claim prize money that was gained by illegally using VAT cash to run a business?


  65. paulmac2 says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 14:17

    HMRC do not have the power to arrest for VAT evasion.

    ———————————–

    Yes they do.

    The fraudulent evasion of VAT is a criminal offence and HMRC have the power to arrest people suspected of it.


  66. bartinmain says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 13:14
    4 0 Rate This
    Dreddybhoy, do you expect we will actually ever see audited accounts?

    ====

    I try to follow the omnishambles remembering one thing which IMO is a fact

    – from day one, the sale of RFC(IL) to Craig Whyte for a £1 and all of the subsequent events ( I’m sure that Maribor and Malmo put a major spanner in the works as did Whyte’s appointment of the administrators rather than receivers throwing whatever plan was off on tangents) that if any of the conspirators plans included the asset stripping of the “rangers brand” then the MSM would have killed it stone dead – day one.

    On saying that, I can’t for the life of me see genuine audited accounts ever seeing the light of day for either Sevco Scotland or RIFC

    Sevco being a private company – would we ever see accounts anyway and I’m sure the SFA will be compliant to allow what they think they can get away with, I read recently that UEFA basically rely on the SFA say so for admission to euro competition


  67. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 12:33

    Why does ANYONE think RFC (oldco) are entitled to the second placed prize money?
    ================================================

    Don’t think anyone here does. A lot of people are wondering though what happened to it.


  68. Seems john brown had a good reason to stay quiet.

    Celticbynature
    ‏@Celticbynature
    Mind john brown was warning the rfc masses then all of a sudden wasnt saying anything? Seems he was getting threats. pic.twitter.com/91ChOyrh
    Reply Retweet Favorite More


  70. Captain Haddock says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 13:19

    CG couldn’t put TRFC on the AIM market
    —————————————————————————

    Just a small point but there is nothing to stop an existing Ltd company being floated on AIM although on doing so the Ltd changes to Plc.

    However most people floating a company on AIM or the main market create a fresh vehicle as it is simpler and cheaper to do it that way and it has the advantage of starting with a clean slate which has further advantages when it comes to submitting accounts.


  71. dentarthurdent42 says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 14:23

    paulmac2 says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 14:17

    HMRC do not have the power to arrest for VAT evasion.
    ———————————–
    Yes they do. The fraudulent evasion of VAT is a criminal offence and HMRC have the power to arrest people suspected of it.

    —————————————————————————

    One Sevconian who will vouch for this is Sandy Easdale, the McGill’s Buses supremo. He was arrested, charged and tried by HMRC for VAT evasion – and subsequently jailed for his efforts.

    Sandy is a keen investor in the Govan Tribute Act and he is now the proud owner of a John Bull printing outfit produced RIFC share certificate. I understand he is also contemplating sponsorship of the Ibrox team taps.


  72. dreddybhoy says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 14:35

    Sevco being a private company – would we ever see accounts anyway
    ——————————————————————————————-

    Private Ltd companies have to provide accounts to Companies House annually and they are published. There are legitimate ways to delay publication such as changing the accounting date but eventually they have to be published.

    Of course if the company ceases to trade, as in say a voluntary striking-off, then the accounts don’t need to be published. I think that is probably the position that Sevco 5088 Ltd will be in so we will learn nothing about its financial affairs – this is the other Sevco company and not Sevco Scotland btw.


  74. TW (@tartanwulver) says:
    Sunday, February 10, 2013 at 13:42

    If Aug 2014 is the earliest that RIFC might submit audited accounts, when is the earliest that TRFC could submit audited accounts? These are presumably critical to get the clock ticking for potential European participation, and persuade backers that they have a realistic timescale they are working to to get to this goal?
    ————————————————————————————————————-

    On 27/09/2012 the accounting date for TRFC was put back from 31/05/2013 TO 30/06/2013 so that’s when the first set of accounts should be produced up to which will count in a footballing qualification sense.


  75. are every football clubs accounts due to the spl/sfa by the same date ?
    or do they depend on when there accounts are due to companies house

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