A Roman God, a New Year, a Paycheque a Sports Jacket and that thing called football!

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TSFM gave everyone fair warning. He said clearly that any …

Comment on A Roman God, a New Year, a Paycheque a Sports Jacket and that thing called football! by neepheid.

TSFM gave everyone fair warning. He said clearly that any posts on that subject would be considered OT and deleted. I rather stupidly strayed onto that subject in a subsequent post, and I expect it has been deleted, although I haven’t checked. If it has been deleted, I can’t complain, I was clearly warned.

So I really don’t understand why people are leaving the room. When I’m in someone else’s house, I try to follow their rules whether I agree with them or not. That’s just good manners. To those who decide to leave, good luck finding a better forum.

neepheid Also Commented

A Roman God, a New Year, a Paycheque a Sports Jacket and that thing called football!
StevieBC says:
Friday, January 18, 2013 at 20:53
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Thanks for the link. I simply don’t follow McConville’s logic here. I agree that a “guilty” verdict is as inevitable as it can be (but bearing in mind the FTT result, of course!). What I fail to see is how the authorities can allow the results of games where players with dual contracts were fielded, to stand. I thought a 3 point deduction in such circumstances was automatic? Isn’t that how every previous case has been dealt with? And if there is a 3 point deduction for every game where unregistered players took part, then the titles will go automatically as a consequence, they don’t have to be “stripped” by the panel.

From the authorities’ point of view, that is surely a more straightforward option than trying to collect a fine from a company which didn’t even exist at the time of the offences, and which, as McConville says, simply isn’t going to pay. Whereas the SFA/SPL have the absolute right to deduct points where the rules on player registration are breached. I don’t see how points deductions could be challenged in court, and certainly not by TRFC. Green’s argument that he bought the titles, so they can’t be taken away, is just about the most ridiculous statement that even he has come out with. If I innocently buy a bike, and it turns out to be stolen, the police will take it away from me, no matter how much I paid for it. If Green has been sold stolen goods, his recourse is with the seller, not the authorities.

McConville also raises the question of international matches featuring wrongly registered RFC players. What I would say to that is that if LNS &co find that RFC players were not properly registered, then it will be for UEFA/FIFA to sort out the consequences. That will be totally out of the hands of the SFA. In fact the SFA will be in the dock for allowing the situation not only to arise, but to go unchallenged for so long. In fact but for the actions of HMRC, there would never have been a challenge.


A Roman God, a New Year, a Paycheque a Sports Jacket and that thing called football!
willmacufree says:
Friday, January 18, 2013 at 12:22
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neepheid says: Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 15:41
“By club I mean a football team owned and run by a limited company.”

Neepheid, Sorry for the delay in replying

I think you’re talking holding co s and subsidiaries here, a la MIHoldings and RFC (IL).
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No, I’m not talking about holding companies/subsidiaries at all. I’m talking about a company, which is a legal entity, which can own property, which can enter into contracts, which can employ people, which has to pay tax, etc, etc. A “club” is not a legal entity and can do none of those things. That is my opinion, at any rate, one with which others clearly disagree very strongly.

However TSFM feels that we have been round the houses on this one, and the “debate” is going nowhere. I entirely agree, so this post is absolutely my last word on the subject of oldclub/newclub, club/company. There comes a point where people decide to believe what they want to believe. That’s fine. I have tried not to get involved in this debate, but not hard enough, obviously. I would love to believe that RFC died in 2012, never to be seen again. Unfortunately facts and my personal understanding of the relevant law get in the way of me believing that.

As regards debt recovery from the club in liquidation, I do not believe that there is any prospect of that all. There are no assets, no money, no chance of recovery. BDO might get something back from Green or even SDM and his fellow directors, but I’ll be amazed if they do. As for LNS, he is concerned only with football disciplinary matters. I imagine the contents of the five way agreement have left him in a completely impossible position.


A Roman God, a New Year, a Paycheque a Sports Jacket and that thing called football!
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 16:08
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neepheid says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 15:41

don’t doubt what you say….so

who holds SFA membership – club or company
who holds players registration – club or company
who pays players wages (i.e. who employs them, is registered as an employer and pays tax/ni) – club or company
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The SFA membership is held by the company- that is clear from the fact that the RFC membership of the SFA was transferred from Oldco (a company) to Sevco (another company) by the SFA.

I know nothing about the process of player registration, so I’ll say nothing about that. Maybe someone else can help?

I do know a lot about tax, though. The players are employed by the company, the company is registered as the employer for tax and NIC, and the company pays the wages and accounts for tax and NIC. Please bear in mind that the “club”, not being a legal entity, can’t even have a bank account, so can’t pay anyone.


Recent Comments by neepheid

The Case for a New SFA.
Warburton recruits another of the Brentford backroom boys-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-make-another-hire-appoint-6661188

Looks like “Moneyball” is coming to Scotland with this one. And is there anyone left at Brentford- apart from former Ibrox Wonderkid Lewis Macleod?


Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?
http://www.scotzine.com/2014/02/is-dave-kings-scaremongering-part-of-a-long-term-plan-to-buy-club-on-cheap/

Just saw this after my previous post. It sort of ties in with my own thoughts on where this is going.


Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?
I see that the RIFC share price has been on an upward trend for a few weeks now, it has reached 30p today from a low of 24p, admittedly on thin trading.

Am I being too cynical in thinking that the share price reflects the improved chances of RIFC getting rid of TRFC once and for all, while retaining the properties? If that can be done, and soon, then the shares look cheap at 30p. If it isn’t done, then all the future holds for the shares is dilution, as cash calls are made to keep TRFC afloat.

I think the market believes the football side is about to be ditched. I can’t make sense of a rising share price otherwise.


Podcast Episode 2 – Stuart Cosgrove
The Wallace statement just confirms for me that in business terms he is a lightweight, and that he is totally out of his depth in the Ibrox snakepit. Loads of words to say nothing- why not take the opportunity to answer King’s questions? The fact that he doesn’t confirm that the properties are unencumbered, for example, just invites the conclusion that they are, in fact, encumbered. To my simple way of thinking, anyway.


Podcast Episode 2 – Stuart Cosgrove
andy graham (@andygraham66) says:
Thursday, February 27, 2014 at 14:10

Sorry, I have just found the link within your post. Here it is anyway-

http://www.unionoffans.org/statements/2014/2/27/union-of-fans-statement-270214


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