Guest Blog by Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan
Good Morning,
Can I start by wishing everyone who reads this blog a happy, peaceful and prosperous 2013.
In a few weeks’ time a couple of working class lads from Walsall and Wolverhampton will receive a reasonably sizeable cheque through the door. The money will be entirely expected and meticulously accounted for. A similar cheque will have arrived last year, and both will expect the process to repeat itself automatically this time next year.
The sum concerned will be sizeable—many thousands of pounds— and does not come from any insurance policy, institutional pension plan or other type of financially regulated investment. Further, in order to receive a similar amount next year, the two men will have to do precisely nothing! The money will simply come automatically!
Magic eh?
Well no—not really.
You see Neville and James ( for that is what they are called ) earned this money many years ago by completing a job of work, and they have been getting paid for the same job year in and year out ever since!
Except that you don’t know them as Nevile and James! No you may know them as Jim Lea ( who? you may say ) and Noddy Holder (aka Neville John Holder MBE ) the co author of that perennial Christmas classic “Merry Christmas Everybody”.
These two clever boys came up with their “pension” song by making a Christmas cracker out of tunes they had written and discarded in the past. Lea’s chords from years before provided the tune for the verses, while an earlier rejected composition of Holder’s became the chorus, and in this way it was the past work of both men that secured their future—even back in 1974!
As the song is played to death on Radio, in clubs, in pubs, in shops, on TV and everywhere else at Christmas, the New Year always brings a cheque of sizeable proportions for Messrs Lea and Holder.
However there were four members of Slade and not two, I hear you say!
Whilst that is correct, not every member of the band shares the royalties for ever more, with only the actual composers receiving the big bucks year on year — unless of course the gang of four agreed otherwise between themselves – as sometimes happens—but often doesn’t — in bands and other artistic collaborations!
And that, dear reader, neatly takes me to the current topic of the day on this here planet!!! The reconstruction, reorganisation and profit sharing in Scottish Fitba!!!
It strikes me that the SFA, SPL and SFL all want to come up with their own version of the pension song or product — Something that will make future performances interesting and lucrative for ever more without anyone having to put in too much effort in future.
Of course it is recognised that the clubs at the top of the financial tree have the greatest influence in composing this song, but there is an insistence, and so a desire, that even the minor band members should get a greater share of the royalties going forward.
All very honourable. All very interesting,— and all completely missing the point in my humble opinion.
Now, there is a clamour from the fans that the proposed structure of 12 – 12—18 is flawed and leads to daft consequences when worked through. We want 14- 14 – 14 say many fans or 16- 14 – 12 or some other composition altogether!!
Oh—and the fans want the chairmen to consult the fans before making a decision on anything, and they want Messrs Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir to stop telling fans that they need to be “educated” about what is best for the game!
All very noble! All very interesting, —and all completely missing the point once again in my humble opinion.
Jock Stein once famously proclaimed that football is nothing without fans— almost everyone knows that. Yet how many actually stop to consider those words and what he meant.
There is nothing without fans!!!!!
How many times have you heard commentators, journalists, ex players and even fans refer to the fans as “the paying customers” ? This phrase has made its way into common parlance and is rarely- if ever- challenged or qualified.
So I will ask—is that what the football fan is prepared to be called—“The paying customer”?— is that it?
Are you, dear reader, a paying customer?—and nothing more?
Or is a football fan a “member of a club”—a “ supporter of a club” or even “part” of a club?
If you are just a paying customer does that mean that anyone who turns up at a ground and pays over some money on a solitary Saturday afternoon is to be seen in exactly the same way as the guy or gal who has been a season ticket holder for years and years?
Does the person who sits behind their keyboard and blogs and comments for Britain on matters football—but who never goes to a game or who does not spend a penny following or promoting their proclaimed club – have the same strength of voice as that season ticket holder—or even the guy who stumps up the cash to view a game once a year?
Not a chance in my view!!!
Equally though, if you have a Football Club Board who do nothing whatsoever to attract people into the club apart from throw out a team on a Saturday Afternoon with mixed degrees of success – are they worthy of support from the “paying customer” or anyone else for that matter?
In my view the answer is no— a very loud —NO!!!
If we are going to reconstruct Scottish Football then I am sorry you have to start by looking at exactly what it is you are trying to reconstruct—reconstruct being the appropriate and important word.
The job is to reconstruct—and regain— viable and important interest in Scottish Football and the teams—or clubs—who play in Scotland.
League reconstruction is only part of that process, and the redistribution of television money is only part of the league reconstruction part of the process!
The month of January is named after the Roman God Janus—who had two heads— one for looking forward and one for looking back. Janus was the God of transition—The God of change— and it was always clear that you could only have change going forward by casting an eye back to the past—to see what you wanted to keep from that past, to see what you wanted to jettison, and to see what could be learned from past times.
In the past , football crowds were far larger, revenues proportionally bigger and closer together when comparing clubs, and consequently it might be said that the football product was much better on the park—with various teams outwith the two big Glasgow teams—please do remember the Jags come from Glasgow too and that in the past Clyde and Third Lanark were also natives— competing for and winning trophies.
Nowadays, football clubs have lower attendances—unless of course one of the smaller teams ( I refuse to use the derogatory and well hackneyed phrase that is banded about re smaller Scottish Clubs ) gets to a Hampden final when low and behold anything between 20,000 and 30,000 lost football fans appear as if out of nowhere!!
And hey—if you happen to be a fan of the Ibrox Club or the Parkhead club—don’t go getting too comfy in your seat— where the hell were some of you before Seville or Manchester?
The point is that football is like politics — it all means nothing without participation— real participation. That means fans buying into, spending money on and in, and promoting their club at every opportunity. It means the clubs and their boards using every trick in the book to generate income away from the football pitch. A “Club” in law is no more than a collection of people coming together for a common purpose and a football club is perfectly capable of having genuine “club activity” which does not primarily involve football.
Where are the regional and local initiatives to promote the social aspects of football clubs? Do the facilities for women need upgrading to help persuade more mothers and girlfriends to come to the ground whether that be for games or other events or functions?
In a time of never ending football memorabilia, how many people went to their club shop this Christmas and bought merchandise for family and friends – even if the same family and friends support another club? How many people invite visitors or non football supporting friends to a game on a Saturday—even if it is only every now and then?
In short what do you do to support your club—and what can that club do to get more and more people involved in the club itself or its functions? And what functions could that club become involved in using existing facilities and resources?
Is there a kids club? A weekday crèche? Are there facilities that are not used six days a week which could be used for community groups who have nothing to do with football—or even sport? Should the club hold daft things like race nights, bingo nights— functions that may well attract people who would no more likely go to a football ground on a Saturday than suddenly develop Noddy Holder style sideburns?
How many people take an old shirt or T shirt or towel bearing the club colours on holiday to give to a waiter or a stranger or someone who has no connection with the club—with a view to creating a fan or someone with a bit of interest who might just one day become a season ticket holder or even an occasional “paying customer” at the door?
Further, are there folk out there who could actually go along and volunteer services for their club for nothing and so save the club from spending hard earned cash out of necessity? Could you be a gateman? Could you perform a task for your club on a voluntary basis?
You may think that a daft or utopian ideology but sports clubs traditionally always had a social purpose as well as a sporting one. Clubs were a focus for a locality, or a workforce, or a congregation or just about any group of people who want to come together for sporting or social purposes. Further those who volunteered their services for the common good often got great local recognition for their dedication and spirit.
Ask any Dons fan about Teddy Scott—who although a paid employee was Aberdeen FC through and through—pay or no pay!
The clamour for change in football should not be blinded by the words of the three official bodies and the more vocal chairmen of the clubs that want to play in the league – or not as the case may be. Change should come from the fans of the game up—but to be honest until the fans—or should I say the mysteriously disappearing armchair fans—actually come out and support their clubs a lot more often, then we are not going to see valuable and worthwhile change no matter what the league set up or composition.
On Saturday, I listened to Off The Ball on Radio Scotland where the contributors waxed lyrical about journalists of yesteryear who made the game and broadcasting interesting. Jimmy Sanderson, Bob Crampsey et al – they all got a mention.
The discussion sparked a memory for me when they came to discuss the legend that is Arthur Montford—famously referred to by Jock Stein as “ The Sportsjacket” with reference to his never ending collection of blazers.
Arthur was a journalist—both print and broadcast— with the BBC and then STV since 1957 in terms of television—and with the Evening Times and other papers in terms of the written press.
A lifelong follower of Morton and a keen Golfer and golf commentator, Arthur has been retired this many a year although he can still be seen walking up and down Byres Road occasionally. At one time he became Chairman of Morton and he used to write in the club programme on a regular basis—possibly still does! He is by all accounts a nice man—a good man— sufficiently good and of sufficient standing to have been elected as the Rector of Glasgow University in 1975—beating George Brown and Janey Buchan ( if you don’t know who they were then look them up! )— in the process.
He was the first sports journalist to hold that post.
In his Rectorial address Arthur went to great lengths to highlight what can be achieved if volunteers— individuals— club members if you like— put their shoulders to the wheel and strive for change, for a common purpose, and for society in general. He stressed that such communal effort brought about change—brought about improvement— brought about advancement in numerous situations. This was only three years after Jimmy Reid had used the same platform to denounce the “Rat Race” declaring “ I am not a rat!”.
For football to change in this country we need action—action by the fans—action by the clubs—action by the journalists and commentators to highlight initiatives and opportunities for our football clubs to play a greater part in our communities— from kids to pensioners, from toddlers to mums and dads, local residents to occasional visitors.
That is the way to make your voice heard and to make that voice count. That is the way to bring about the change that you want for the future.
There were four members of Slade—but only two wrote the words and music to Merry Christmas Everybody and it is they who earned the right to the pension royalties for ever more. The other two bit part players did not!
Janus was meant to oversee transition to the future by casting an eye on the past and learning from what went before—as should we when considering Scottish Football—and in that spirit you will find a link to the whole of Arthur Montford’s address below— there are things worth learning there.
Here’s to the future—-NOW—– its only just begun!
http://www.universitystory.gla.ac.uk/documents/UGSD00029.pdf
Humble Pie says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 20:04
This is a historical anomaly which has served simply in order to maintain the fan’s sense of ownership and belonging to the ‘club’. Despite it being the truth, no-one likes to think of themselves as a supporter of a ‘company’.
+++++++++
My father was not a football fan nor his older two brothers nor my Irish Grandfather. Whenever I used to ask my father to take me to see the Celtic he’d says ” what is your interest son in supporting what is a privately owned company, it’s not really a club” Of course it’s a different situation now in some respects.
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 20:22
The only real difference is that Celtic are now a ‘public limited company’ meaning that you can buy shares and become a part-owner of the company.
ClaireMann @ClaireMann
Reporter: “Will you pick Rangers players despite them playing in division 3?”. Strachan: “I don’t think any Berwick players are good enough.
Should read: part-owner of the club/company.
Questions for Stuart Cosgrove please?
Stuart, are the BBC innocently unaware of the writings of Chris Graham and Mark Dingwall? Or are they aware, yet still deem them the acceptable face of the Rangers support?
Another couple of small but pertinent points if I may please.
Why is Campbell Ogilvie still in a post where he is so compromised it’s worthy of a 3rd world tinpot dictatorship?
We are being advised we will have one ruling body for our game (brilliant), why are the people about to be cast adrift (we hope) designing and implementing change to the leagues they will not be responsible for administrating?
Thank you.
liveinhop says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 20:28
ClaireMann @ClaireMann
Reporter: “Will you pick Rangers players despite them playing in division 3?”. Strachan: “I don’t think any Berwick players are good enough.
==================================
Ha Ha, didn’t take WGS long, did it ? 🙂
He’s alienated/outraged TRFC fans, and shirley they’ll now be demanding he is sacked for this ‘slur’.
Quality, as they say…
neepheid says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 20:17
I don’t agree with what went on in the summer, and I also think that those decisions severely damaged fan support for our sport, I believe a re-occurrence would finnish the sport off.
‘The Rangers’ are in the league. The only thing that will change that is LNS but even then I’m sure the SFA will flim flam on any unpallatable decision and that is the real problem the SFA acting as they have done has left them fatally damaged in the eyes of many fans.
As we can no longer refer to the SFA President as Sc****r, how about a topical label instead ?
Rather than “Campbell Ogilvie, world’s greatest football administrator”…
…how about “Campbell Ogilvie, the ‘Lance Armstrong’ of football administration”, [allegedly ;)] ?
Can I ask, has anyone who e-mailed the SFA asking a question relating to either, the 5 way agreement, the legitimacy of the conditional membership or Sevco player registrations, ever received a response?
ohhappydayz says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 18:50
18 1 Rate This
On SSB a caller asked about Newco/Oldco panel could not really answer.
Next caller A Sevco fan quotes EUFA and FIFA ranking Rangers at position 88. Pundit then states the company is new but the club remains the same. FFS.
Who got liquidated?
What does liquidation mean?
Surely without the company the club does not exist.
……………………
One of the problems with the view of the MSM on Newco, is that it is them that NEED a Rangers. All the nonsense they print and speak about Scottish Football needing Rangers, Celtic needing Rangers, Scottish society needing Rangers, is guff. The reality is, it is THEM that NEED Rangers. When this saga began, the MSM didn’t only insist we all need Rangers, they insisted we need a STRONG Rangers! This was their position for months before they realised it was way beyond them coming back strong, but whether they would survive at all, which they didn’t.
So the view of a compromised, weak, pandering, appeasing Media, who NEED Rangers, is always going to be on the side of Newco = Rangers.
The simple thing to do is ask them, why they believe this is a continuation of Rangers?
The transfer of Membership myth has been rubbished, as has the lie that Sevco purchased the Goodwill, both of these things were continuously used as an explanation for Rangers continuation, now these arguments are rarely used because they have been proven to be utter nonsense.
What we are seeing now is “they are Rangers, because the Rangers fans believe they are Rangers”, this is the best they can do now. This is what they are now resorting to as an explanation, and if you question this stance, you are a bitter and twisted hater of all things Rangers.
IMO, it is not down to us to prove they are not Rangers, it is down to Sevco, their fans and the MSM to prove that they are.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 21:02
Made an enquiry re registration for Berwick game about 3 weeks ago. No acknowledgement received. Would be interested in any response about conditional membership, as by all accounts I’ve read it doesnt exist in the “rulebook”
bailemeanach says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 21:23
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 21:02
Made an enquiry re registration for Berwick game about 3 weeks ago. No acknowledgement received…
============
At least they are consistent: I have sent several polite emails to the SFA over last year, with not so much as an automated email response.
A while back the question was asked of the blog: nobody at that point had received any aknowledgement/reply to any of their communications to the SFA, IIRC.
Stevie
Was it Regan or Doncaster who were all over Twitter like a rash until it all went breats north for oldco?
I never took much notice but I’m sure one of them shut up shop pronto when the pertinent questions started to be posed
Breasts. Obviously!
bailemeanach says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 21:32
Stevie
Was it Regan or Doncaster who were all over Twitter like a rash until it all went breats north for oldco?…
===================
It was Regan.
He shut his account down in Jan/Feb ?
IIRC, he also made a few flippant remarks, late in the evening, which prompted strong reactions.
StevieBC says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 20:48
As we can no longer refer to the SFA President as Sc****r, how about a topical label instead ?
Rather than “Campbell Ogilvie, world’s greatest football administrator”…
…how about “Campbell Ogilvie, the ‘Lance Armstrong’ of football administration”, [allegedly ] ?
——————————————————————————————————————-
How about “Campbells Condensed?”
Its thick 🙂
How thick do you have to be to be conflicted and not able to do your job?
How thick do you have to be and not have the decency to resign your post?
How thick do you have to be to realise the fans don’t want you?
I mean, how thick?
Bawsman.
“We are being advised we will have one ruling body for our game (brilliant), why are the people about to be cast adrift (we hope) designing and implementing change to the leagues they will not be responsible for administrating?”
Thank you
____________________
Brilliant Bawsman – they have only one mission! .
It was Regan.
He shut his account down in Jan/Feb ?
IIRC, he also made a few flippant remarks, late in the evening, which prompted strong reactions.
____________________________________
Cheers Stevie. So he used social media to remark on Scottish football. I believe such behaviour is typical of semi-literate bampots. Thank the lord he holds no position of responsibility in our game, or we really would be on the slippery slope.
as per my name – what is IIRC.
If I Remember Correctly, FYI…
The argument that it is unfair to decide upon reconstruction mid season for the start of next season, is one that Jim Duffy says he supports Ally McCoist with.
I wonder if his fellow board members at Clyde feel the same way?
His side are currently struggling in the 3rd Division, with the play-offs looking a big ask. So promotion is not likely if the status quo is maintained.
If the vote is positive in the coming weeks, then the rest of the season(a dozen or so matches) will be rendered a wash out with all clubs taking their place next season is the newly formed National league. A promotion for Clyde into the 3rd tier of Scottish football and an exciting prospect of fighting for a place in the 2nd tier.
If, however, they choose to listen to the wisdom of McCoist and Duffy, and amend the proposal. Clyde will spend another full season in the 3rd division, trying to motivate players to compete in meaningless matches. in front of dwindling crowds(who would turn up for a season of friendlies?) Before taking their place in the new National league the following season.
I have a feeling Clyde will vote for reconstruction, as will their counterparts.
StMiley (@StMiley) says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 22:16
That’s a good point. Whilst we have lamented the plight of Dundee, thrust into a competitive environment at the last minute that they had made no preparation for, what about the clubs in Div 3, primed for a concerted effort at promotiom. Only to have a new club parachuted in. All well and good that new club are filling grounds, but the likes of Clyde, Elgin etc hadn’t banked for a club full of SPL players on SPL wages joining the party.
And when new club move on up, whenever that may be, its back to businss as usual for the Div 3 clubs. Perhaps they would have preferred a Spartans joining them in a competitive league, than a couple of hefty paydays short term
StMiley,
Excellent.
What this means, if I read it right, is that if reconstruction is accepted in the next couple of weeks there will be a massive slew of games that will become meaningless. Clubs can discard any expenses i.e. players ground staff etc. understanding that their place in the new set-up is secure no matter what position they end up in the league. The old adage ‘What a tangled web we weave’ comes to mind.
What a cock up – it’s no wonder the authors of this farago depart stage left when they succeed in
pushing this through.
Regan abandoned his twitter account a bit later on last year. I think he was still tweeting in April.
I asked him a couple of pertinent questions which were, of course, ignored. He simply shut up once he realised that the organisation of which he was chief exec was abandoning its rule book – and he was powerless to stop it. At that point any hope we had in Regan who had at first appeared to be a significant reforming figure was lost completely.
Thank you StevieBC.
Iceman, that’s interesting. I’m intrigued as to how he was silenced from within. Was he naive about what was going on internally until pulled to one side? Trying to fathom how a seemingly forward looking outsider can suddenly toe the party line and cease to engage with his “customers”
Senior says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 22:45
Do we have any idea for the effect this element of the reconstruction might have on say, current mid to lower Division 3 teams in terms of their abilities to improve their squads and ST sales, will some of them be put at risk?
so called Rangers fans, if you represent the majority, stand up and pronounce at ibrox or hold up a big banner stating your views, nah, you would not dare. Rangers fc died in 2012 and we have a new club pretending to be RFC in 2013.
no club will ever accept RFC 2012 are RFC 1872, you can shout , bully, intimidate, but it will never be accepted.
1: The SFA Don’t care about Pro Football Clubs.
2: The SFA Don’t care about Some Football Clubs.
3: The SFA Don’t care about Most Football Clubs.
4: The SFA Don’t care about Most other Football Clubs.
5: The SFA DO care that someone… as in the SPL and SFL have a company with the VISION to BTelevising this charade! Keep the wheel turning!
5 ways! …. Agreed!
The journalist chat on bbc radio Scotland tonight was interesting. The specific topic of the RTC blog and its subsequent incarnations was discussed. Their verdict was the blogs were/are “unrepresentative of Scottish football fans” and gave a one-sided view on the Rangers position. My God, the hypocrisy of these guys! The information from these blogs was the very essence of providing balanced honesty to the cowardly distortions of the MSM. The Scottish football fans rejected the attempt to walk away from debt ,leaving creditors in their wake, and remain in situ. It would have been one of the most corrupt spiv actions in football history. Thank goodness for these blogs and the guys who keep us informed with truth and fair analysis.
Greg Clarke is the chairman of the English football league and said a lot of sensible things today to calm down the let’s bail out to England frenzy.
He has a long corporate cv and was my boss’s boss for a couple of years. He is a pretty effective chief executive and not a man to be messed with. Strong on governance.
The link is a good profile, including how he tried to rescue Leicester City after a financial meltdown.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/7429645/Greg-Clarke-to-replace-Lord-Mawhinney-as-Football-League-chairman.html
Compare and contrast with comrade ogilvie.
Iamacant, I wondered what flavour your Cambells Condensed was. With his attitude towards the fans, mushroom seems appropriate. Or maybe just chicken. Do they do a greasy cockaleekie?
Bailemeanach, TRFC’s very late addition to Div 3 will have hampered some clubs’ promotion chances but Clyde are too busy just existing in order to pay off debt to be involved in that. We long for the days of meaningful fixtures. Had we known liquidation was just part of the everlasting cycle of a football club, we could have been promoted before now (though our landlords may have taken a different view – they may have kicked us when we were down).
Justshatered, TRFC folding would not be the death knell for the game. It would be the full blown reality check the game needs. The reality check the SFA are trying to ignore as they are too busy trying to generate an alternative universe. Very Scottish, though. If at first you don’t succeed via a CVA…
Humble Pie
Lets stick to BB to avoid censure in the current climate
The benefits that the clubs in the 3rd tier of SFL have helped swell their coffers due to Sevco being in their league will be a massive boost for these clubs in no uncertain terms ,if reinvested,time will tell,now ,like Dundee,do the clubs in the 2nd tier know if they can budget for whats going to happen next season no they dont,and on and on it will go ,the only benefit is the TV companies will have paid Sevco’s debt for them and clubs that might ,just might hang on to the shirtails of the special club and wing their way up ,and why not,by the time the experts on here are finished the SFA will be torn apart,but ,just but.if only.
Been nearly a week in sweltering Brisbane, visiting new born twin grand-daughters, one of whom is unfortunately in intensive care-making progress, buichas le Dia- but with some way to go.
I have managed to find a few mins to get hold of my d-in-law’s laptop to try to bring myself up-to-date.
– Another fine post from BRTH-always an enjoyable read.
Have to say, though, that I would echo the view already expressed that the many, many thousands of fans who support their clubs by buying merchandise, and by talking them up, defending them against unjust criticism, and generally promoting them in sundry ways, make a significant ‘community’ contribution!
On league re-construction, I will simply say again that I believe that those who f—ed the Sport up should not be taking any part as ‘office’ bearers of the SFA, SPL or SFL.
These men are are,de facto, tainted.
It is not too late for any notion of a next-season start to a reconstruction to be smacked as thoroughly about the ears as some of the guilty men shoud be kicked in the fundament,
and for the upcoming AGM to be seized as the opportunity to clear away the garbage- and stench that accompanies it- and get some honest-to-God men of integrity put in office.
Only then will there be hope that we may ,see a well-considered, fair and just, business- and- sporting arrangement, rather than a spatchcock bastardised and shoddy fix designed , howevre cunningly disguised, to accommodate a new club whose owners have consistently spat unpunished on the face of Scottish Football, with the MSM cheerleading in encouragement.
(Oh, for a snowflake to fall! (Aye, that’ll be right!)
StevieBC says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 20:48
As we can no longer refer to the SFA President as Sc****r, how about a topical label instead ?
Rather than “Campbell Ogilvie, world’s greatest football administrator”…
…how about “Campbell Ogilvie, the ‘Lance Armstrong’ of football administration”, [allegedly
——————————————————–
Has to be Tommy. He’s deaf,dumb and blind to everything Rangers.
There is endless requests for Rangers fans to accept their club are “deid” as if it’s the best way forward.
What do you want Rangers fans to do exactly?………..if someone askes what team they support, are you saying they should say “I used to support Rangers Football Club 1872 but I now support The Rangers Football Club 2012”!
It’s a ridiculous thing to ask…………bizarre if you ask me.
john clarke says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 05:28
Been nearly a week in sweltering Brisbane, visiting new born twin grand-daughters, one of whom is unfortunately in intensive care-making progress, buichas le Dia- but with some way to go.
——
OT …
Congratulations, John. 🙂
All the very best wishes for the wee lassie in intensive care.
shield2012 says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 09:00
3 2 i
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There is endless requests for Rangers fans to accept their club are “deid” as if it’s the best way forward.
What do you want Rangers fans to do exactly?………..if someone askes what team they support, are you saying they should say “I used to support Rangers Football Club 1872 but I now support The Rangers Football Club 2012″!
It’s a ridiculous thing to ask…………bizarre if you ask me.
_________________________________________________________________________________
The old Rangers FC IS dead. This is a fact. It’s got nothing to do with the best way forward. Forward is the future. With death there is no future, not on this planet.
If someone should ask a supporter what team they support, they might say, ‘New Rangers’.
If they do then they might get some respect.
If they don’t, and answer ‘Rangers’ instead, then they might get pity, but I doubt it.
Shield – I don’t think anyone’s arguing that there isn’t a team playing out of Govan called Rangers, existing via the magic of substitutiary locomotion (perhaps they can arrange a game against the animal select last seen in Bedknobs & Broomsticks?).
The problem everyone has is that this club are touted as being the same club as the one that went out of existence in the summer. Their position with regard to various competitions confirms that they are not. The anomaly lies in the recent statements made by persons in positions of authority that TRFC are in fact the same club as RFC were.
It is this lack of clarity and deliberate obfuscation that serves to rile outside observers. Rules have been applied to TRFC as if they were a new club (give or take the scales tipping in their favour re: entry to SFL3 etc), and yet the message is that there is an unbroken line dating back to 1872.
It is not the TRFC fans anyone wants to accept that RFC went out of existence – even James Traynor accepted that fact and published it – it is the whitewashing by the authorities that is scandalous.
Roll on LNS.
£50 quid per extra ticket, 10p a min on a line that has an astronomical wait and then £2.50 booking fee per extra ticket. Thats why Scottish footballs going down the swanny. And yeah its a glamour game bla de bla de blah, But overall the fans are laughed at in this country.
angus1983, I completely understand the underlying issues and was only targeting the silly requests that are being directed at Rangers fans.
You only have to look at the previous post, where manandboy has suggested that Rangers fans say they support “New Rangers”?!?!
New Rangers fans and the MSM are happy to discuss the administration of the old club, they do not deny that it happened!
The old club failed to get a CVA, which again the New Rangers fans and the MSM are happy to discuss and don’t deny that it happened!
The old club is now in liquidation, every bit as much a fact as the previous two statements, but the New Rangers fans and the MSM deny this happened!
How is it possible, that a mind can accept the first two facts, but be blindly ignorant to the latter.
The old club is now in liquidation, every bit as much a fact as the previous two statements, but the New Rangers fans and the MSM deny this happened!
——-
Have you ever spoke to a Rangers fan who has denied that the oldco was liquidated?
Oldco liquidation was reported by MSM on several occasions?
From Sevco’s official site today
RANGERS wish to confirm that other than players and support staff, the Club will have minimal presence only at the Scottish Cup fifth-round tie against Dundee United at Tannadice on Saturday, February 2.
Board members who attend will do so in order to comply with any official obligations.
The Club would like to remind supporters of the decision not to accept tickets for Tannadice and believe our fans, even those who take pride in following the Club to every match, understand our position.
—————————————————————
shield2012
Apparently it happened to an imaginary ‘holding company’. With Charles Green saving the club from liquidation with a failed CVA. Yes, a FAILED CVA!
New Rangers fans are in complete denial that the CLUB is in liquidation.
club = company
Andrew Woods @11.03 Jan 16
Terrific post from Hearts man. Pity he spoiled it with the “…usual rules don’t apply to OF clubs” shorthand and untrue for dragging Celtic into the picture. As we keep saying, can we have some examples please?
From various forums this morning…..
From both FF and Sevcomedia together with a few predictable replies:
“Remember this impartial member of the SFA panel tasked with dealing with Lord Nimmos findings against Rangers and Craig Whyte?
Described at the time as the “erstwhile football commentator” in various pieces such as..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/922…n-Rangers.html
I discovered today during an unrelated conversation that the impartial Mr Murning is currently making his money organising “An Audience with Henrik Larsson” evenings in Glasgow and Ireland. His company World Celebrity Bookings are the events management company putting it all together…. It appears though that the only “World celebrity” on their books is the aforementioned hero of the green and greys.
The link can be seen at… http://henriklarsson.co.uk/ which is a page forward from the site http://www.wcbookings.com which in turn is registered to impartial Mr Alistair Murning ….
So one third of the panel making judgement on Rangers appears linked to Celtic….who would have thunk it…
Sooner we bring this house of cards down the better.”
——
“Corruption right to the core , these *******s must be exposed for the good of all Scottish football.”
——
“any where else folk would be asking Qs
here in biogited wee scotland, it has now become the norm.
Hand picked for a reason”
——
“one would think these kind of stories would normally be the medias bread and butter but not in Scotland eh. Makes me sick.”
——
” I’ve tweeted this thread to Andrew Dickson. He’s going to have a look at it when he gets to a computer. Hopefully he’ll pass it on.”
==================================
No prizes for guessing that the original post has a link to Murning’s home address.
Other posters claiming Murning favoured the now defunct club!
I can log in on my phone but no longer on my computer, any ideas?
willmacufree says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 11:02
###############################
Andrew Woods @11.03 Jan 16
Terrific post from Hearts man. Pity he spoiled it with the “…usual rules don’t apply to OF clubs” shorthand and untrue for dragging Celtic into the picture. As we keep saying, can we have some examples please?
=================================================
What about the SPL voting structure and prize money distribution? DuopoliesRus?
Today The Rangers official website published a photograph of McCoist proudly displaying a board showing how this season’s ST sales had exceeded those of the previous two years. The graphic used was not to scale and the figure in the red column was (deliberately?) exaggerated, as illustrated here:
http://i46.tinypic.com/pogap.jpg
I see that the Scottish Sun chose to reproduce the picture but it went further by concealing all the data, thus making this season’s figures appear a runaway success.
http://i50.tinypic.com/95ojya.jpg
The Sun editor must know his hacks are being less than honest by distorting the original picture, yet he is happy to sanction its publication. Green and Traynor don’t need to bust a gut when their pals in the MSM are only too willing and eager to act as their Ministry of Propaganda.
lots of in-depth, get to the truth, type of questions aimed at mr charles green!!!
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/208-charles-green-quarry-bar-q-a
peace63 says:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 23:41
88 0 Rate This
The journalist chat on bbc radio Scotland tonight was interesting. The specific topic of the RTC blog and its subsequent incarnations was discussed ….
——-
I thought the concept of the show was excellent, now it just needs to be turned into a weekly feature called ‘From the Blogs’, or something along those lines; the same as Paper Talk but with the new media discussed.
SC was host and as far as I could hear acted in an impartial role. I did think the P&B guy was very fair in his summary of the blogs and of RTC in particular. Chris Graham spoke well but offered very little of substance other than that the anonymity of the RTC whistleblower made the otherwise correct information somehow tainted. Still don’t see his point. I think the inference from Mr Graham was that the blogs, especially RTC, are responsible for TRFC being in Div 3, since the fans’ voice was heard. Perhaps he felt the monarch should have been consulted instead?
No one thought to mention the possible reasons for RTC anonymity either, at least not on the podcast. It did strike me as odd at first too but living abroad you tend to forget the fact that people still issue threats in 21st century Glasgow.
I hope the show will become a regular feature.
paulsatim says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 11:45
You’d think from that rant his club have never had (and still have) Rangers people in positions of influence.
Pfffttt!!!!!!!
seems sevco “do, want fast-tracked”
i thought sevco were happy in the 4th division and didn’t want any help to climb the leagues.
aly mccoist claiming stranraer set a precedent in a previous restructuring.
i wonder where he happened to get that information?
(by strange coincidene, it was posted on here a few days ago, by a clyde fan!)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ally-mccoist-says-rangers-should-1538587
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 09:52
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£50 quid per extra ticket, 10p a min on a line that has an astronomical wait and then £2.50 booking fee per extra ticket. Thats why Scottish footballs going down the swanny. And yeah its a glamour game bla de bla de blah, But overall the fans are laughed at in this country.
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After an hour of trying, I eventually got to join a ‘queue’ and was told I was 28th.
After 10 mins in the queue the tickets had sold out!
No looking forward to my phone bill (And explaining to my wife.)
Ok, I never got the extra tickets, but thinking positively, what a boost for Celtic and Scottish
football to have such a massive response from fans to watch this game. Especially given the difficult financial times we are in, plus the price of the tickets are pretty steep!
To all those that queued in the cold today and were successful, enjoy the game. I hope
Scottish football will host big games like this on a more regular basis, but who knows?
Mcmurdo at it again, so deluded.
It looks like worrying news for the company that manufactures Magners Cider as a net revenue loss of 20.8% was recorded for sales of Magners and Gaymers in the nine months leading up to November 2012.
Although this came prior to the shirt sponsorship of Celtic FC, the figures show a downward trend for the brand. With Magners being very likely a brand that will be shunned by fans of Rangers, the shortfall will have to be made up by Celtic fans and others – something that is very unlikely.
C&C Group may come to regret their decision to sponsor Celtic as the endorsement deal is unlikely to reverse the brand’s fortunes in the UK.
Meanwhile, revenues of Tennent’s products are up over the same period. Tennent’s is another brand in the C&C stable and is the sponsor of Scotland’s biggest and most successful team, The Rangers Football Club.
C&C Group, which is based in Dublin, can be content knowing that at least one of their brands is connected with a team that is going places and providing value for their endorsement money.
——————————————
I see Ally McCoist is floating the idea that Rangers should be fast-tracked in any reconstruction deal.
Although the concept of sporting fairness and working through the leagues appeals to the innate sense of honour among Rangers fans, I tend to think Coisty is right.
The stakes are way too high and the future of Scottish football – along with some teams that are household names – is in the balance.
The lack of credible competition for Celtic in the top tier devalues the game massively and is proving to be a turn-off for fans, mainly Celtic’s own. The astonishing Green Seat Phenomenon is becoming a major talking point and is a great source of embarrassment for Celtic CEO Peter Lawwell.
Lawwell, of course, is engaged in a major promotional boost for the SPL’s reconstruction plans but he is like a tour agent trying to sell cruises on the Titanic after it has been holed.
Scottish football is dying a slow, agonising death and the real tragedy is that many of the major players are fiddling while the game sinks beneath the waves.
It cannot be denied that many Rangers fans are looking on with glee as the whole sorry episode unfolds. Although fans of other teams think this is vindictive of Gers fans, it should be borne in mind that they are only returning the serve after the summer of hate last year.
There are many compelling reasons why Rangers should be fast-tracked but the over-riding one is economic. However, even in respect of sporting fairness, there is a powerful argument. Surely no-one is happy with Celtic having a clear run at the top tier title without any real competition – other, that is, than those craven souls who don’t mind glorying in tainted titles.
It may appear that Ally McCoist and Charles Green are not singing from the same hymn sheet, with McCoist speaking of competing in Scotland and Green talking about Rangers moving to England.
The reality is that the arguments of both amount to the same thing; they are two sides of the same coin, in effect.
Scottish football must be reformed in a way that doesn’t just benefit Celtic FC – which the SPL proposals effectually do. The reformation must make sense to football fans – unlike the Transformer league set-up mooted by the cabal.
If reformation is sensible and even-handed, Rangers may be able to keep playing in Scotland for the time being. If not, it is time to up sticks and go to a better place.
Makes sense really, when you examine what both McCoist and Green are saying.
Sadly, many in our game here in Scotland don’t do sense. Bigotry and self-defeating viciousness, yes but sense, no.
The past few days have seen developments, however, with several clubs showing willingness to listen to alternatives to the cabal’s ideas.
Who knows, we may have turned a corner at last.
If so, it’s about time.
I won’t be holding my breath, though.
yakutsuki says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 12:58
2 0 Rate This
Bang on without this where would Scottish football be co-efficient wise etc. I take my hat off to every fan that paid the price of the tickets. I just can’t help feel again the fans have been taken for a ride. In the Parkhead corridors of power they know fan’s (Also filthy touts) will pay any price for the ticket. But the ticket prices in Scotland are scandolous and I don’t think the fans will be keeping it up for much longer. Taking a 5 person family to a game you’d have to phone Wonga for one of their special rates. Re-construction is the wrong arguement we are all focused on, making the people that run our game aware we are not prepared to pay over the odds has got to be the priority. Im close to jacking ma season book in as im fed up of not being able to take my kids to games as its just too expensive.
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 09:52
Quantcast
£50 quid per extra ticket, 10p a min on a line that has an astronomical wait and then £2.50 booking fee per extra ticket. Thats why Scottish footballs going down the swanny. And yeah its a glamour game bla de bla de blah, But overall the fans are laughed at in this country.
========================================================================
I agree that the fans are being treated poorly here. These kind of prices, even for a big match, are milking the situation to the extreme when you consider the substantial extra income already generated for progressing to the last 16.
Celtic should be ashamed of treating their loyal fans so shabbily.
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 13:28
yakutsuki says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 12:58
2 0 Rate This
Bang on without this where would Scottish football be co-efficient wise etc. I take my hat off to every fan that paid the price of the tickets. I just can’t help feel again the fans have been taken for a ride. In the Parkhead corridors of power they know fan’s (Also filthy touts) will pay any price for the ticket. But the ticket prices in Scotland are scandolous and I don’t think the fans will be keeping it up for much longer. Taking a 5 person family to a game you’d have to phone Wonga for one of their special rates. Re-construction is the wrong arguement we are all focused on, making the people that run our game aware we are not prepared to pay over the odds has got to be the priority. Im close to jacking ma season book in as im fed up of not being able to take my kids to games as its just too expensive.
=======================================================================
Totally agree. The SPL is completely over priced and if we want to stem the flow of losing customers they clubs need to wake up to this by paying players more realistic wages, eliminating agents and introducing youth season tickets for £25 a year. Some clubs do have good kids offers but overall we are paying way over the odds for what is on offer.
bogsdollox says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 13:39
How do we make the people in charge listen thats our problem. Scottish football being so tribelised Its hard to get all fans to agree to some form of action/protest. But my best guess is this current pricing cant keep up for much longer.
Mr Bill McMurdo appears to inhabit some kind of parallel universe where Scottish football is “dying a slow, agonising death” on account of TRFC not being at the top table.
I believe that we should now allow Rangers to desert this obviously sinking ship to ply their trade in the 5th tier of English football, where Mr McMurdo can renew his puerile jibes of “my sponsor’s better than yours nyah nyah nyah”. Pathetic.
Shut the door on the way out, now.
angus1983 says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 13:59
I believe that we should now allow Rangers to desert this obviously sinking ship to ply their trade in the 5th tier of English football, where Mr McMurdo can renew his puerile jibes of “my sponsor’s better than yours nyah nyah nyah”. Pathetic.
Shut the door on the way out, now.
============
No need, we’ll shut it for them- just make sure to turn the key in the lock before they come crawling back.
See the stushie that can be caused by allegedly selling a Fitba club for less than its worth.
Familiar?
http://www.thelawyer.com/football-tactics/1016479.article
Thanks TSFM
______________
Official Servco statement.
“The Club would like to remind supporters of the decision not to accept tickets for Tannadice and believe our fans, even those who take pride in following the Club to every match,
understand our position.”
____________________
What a stupid statement!……………………or maybe not! Yes there are a few fans who follow the club with pride,
Oh FFS…..i almost feel sorry for Hearts is this is true
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/top-stories/ex-livingston-owner-angelo-massone-gearing-up-for-hearts-bid-1-2743308
by BARRY ANDERSON
Published on Thursday 17 January 2013 12:00
ANGELO MASSONE is preparing another bid for control of Hearts, the Evening News can reveal. The Italian is in talks with several Scottish businessmen and visited Edinburgh earlier this week as he attempts to form a new consortium to gain control of the Edinburgh club.
Vladimir Romanov, Hearts’ majority shareholder, rejected a £4.5million offer from Massone in November, but the former Livingston owner is undeterred in his attempts to return to Scottish football. He claims to have the wherewithal to “bring Hearts to the highest level” and believes that heavy Scottish backing will reinforce a new bid.
“We made an offer two months ago and nothing happened,” said Massone, whose first bid was made on behalf of a predominantly Italian consortium. “At this stage, for me it is more important to speak with Scottish people who can afford to stay together and put another offer to Mr Romanov. We are speaking with Scottish business people who are interested in this and after that we will try to speak to supporters to explain our plan and what we want to do.
“I’m sure these businessmen can help. I have good contacts with them and I think we can create a good consortium for a good football project. The target is to bring Hearts to the highest level.”
Massone jetted back to his home in Italy last night to consider his options. His plan is to include a degree of fan ownership in any takeover, with around ten per cent of shares being owned by supporters’ groups. He could lodge a second bid for control of Hearts before the end of the month, however he was reluctant to confirm how much more
money he will be able to offer.
“I don’t want to speak about money at this stage. I think if Mr Romanov receives a good offer, maybe from a consortium with Scottish people inside it, he will accept,” continued Massone. “I have spoken with several people already and I think we can organise our plan together. I’m not sure regards the timing of our next offer.”
Hearts supporters are likely to oppose any takeover attempt from Massone following his infamous and chaotic reign at Livingston, which ended in 2009 after he took the club to the brink of liquidation.
Meanwhile, Hearts paid all players their monthly salaries on time yesterday for the second successive month. The club remains subject to transfer restrictions over bonuses owed to players. However, senior officials are working to demonstrate to the Scottish Premier League that there are no further “remuneration defaults” after wage delays earlier in the season.
In a scene from the movie Elf, Santa suffers some kind of engine failure because there are not enough boys and girls who believe in him any more.
In a nutshell, is that the type of logic now being applied in the MSM to The Rangers?
If enough people believe they are not a new club then, shazzam! They are the same Rangers.
My Juve ticket cost me £34 (got 2 as I have 2 SB’s), that’s absolutely fine by me.
The club are looking after the season book holders, what’s the problem with that?
If you don’t have a season book you pay more, fine by me.
I know it’s tough for people to stump up for season books but if you don’t you can hardly complain that those who do get first dibs at the big games.
Looks like if you drop the SB price by half folk will watch any old rubbish but if you want to be at the top table the supporters have to stump up.
£34 is less than it used to cost to listen to bile for 90 mins from the mob from Govan, I hope they never darken our door again.
cleanairsociety CSC
Correction, just double checked £37…….STILL delighted with that, Man City fans had to pay £62 to watch Arsenal.
Pretendgers make someones Top20
Another year of major litigation
7 January 2013 | By Catrin Griffiths
In the five years we’ve been undertaking this exercise, The Lawyer’s Top 20 Cases has become the essential guide to the biggest and hairiest disputes in the English courts.
One notable trend within the top 20 cases is the number of professional negligence actions coming to court this year. London Underground’s claim against Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer and Herbert Smith will be watched closely, as will the ongoing saga of Rangers and Collyer Bristow and the case arising out of Deloitte’s involvement with the collapse of MG Rover .
blu says: Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 11:55
Blu,
What we’re talking about is the imho wrong assertion that authorities break rules to favour Celtic. I can’t remember it ever happening. The examples you give are not of authorities breaking rules in favour of Celtic.
paulsatim says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 11:45
” I’ve tweeted this thread to Andrew Dickson. He’s going to have a look at it when he gets to a computer. Hopefully he’ll pass it on.”
______________________________________________________________
And presumably when Andrew Dickson gets to a computer to receive the tweet he’ll get to another computer to have a look at it.
Brain surgeons.
Tommy says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 12:05
Today The Rangers official website published a photograph of McCoist proudly displaying a board showing how this season’s ST sales had exceeded those of the previous two years. The graphic used was not to scale and the figure in the red column was (deliberately?) exaggerated, as illustrated here:
http://i46.tinypic.com/pogap.jpg
I see that the Scottish Sun chose to reproduce the picture but it went further by concealing all the data, thus making this season’s figures appear a runaway success.
http://i50.tinypic.com/95ojya.jpg
The Sun editor must know his hacks are being less than honest by distorting the original picture, yet he is happy to sanction its publication. Green and Traynor don’t need to bust a gut when their pals in the MSM are only too willing and eager to act as their Ministry of Propaganda.
================
Funny (peculiar not ha ha) that The Sun didn’t mention that Sevco 5088 achieved a turnover of around £8.5m in season ticket sales this season compared to £17m for each of the previous 2 seasons. Perhaps it doesn’t suit the agenda.
.
bawsman says:
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 14:43
Correction, just double checked £37…….STILL delighted with that, Man City fans had to pay £62 to watch Arsenal.
=========================================================================
So long as its under £62 you will pay up happily?
McMurdo
“There are many compelling reasons why Rangers should be fast-tracked but the over-riding one is economic. However, even in respect of sporting fairness, there is a powerful argument. Surely no-one is happy with Celtic having a clear run at the top tier title without any real competition…”
You do realise that for the 11 remaining SPL teams the ability to get to 2nd, and the riches that carries (relatively speaking) is a massive improvement on what they could have reasonably expected before?
Have you accepted yet that the effective monoply held by the top two, whilst having its roots in legitimate negotiation (the 11-1 system didn’t just miraculously appear) was being artifically maintained by one club running up debts it couldn’t afford?
Get your head round that, throw in a little humble contrition and you might, just might begin to understand where ‘everyone else’ is coming from.