A Sanity Clause for Xmas?

ByTrisidium

A Sanity Clause for Xmas?

A Guest blog by redlichtie for TSFM

From what I can see Mike Ashley is likely to be the only game in town for RIFC/TRFC fans unless they want to see another of their clubs go through administration/liquidation.

That particular scenario potentially allows for a phoenix to arise from the ashes but on past evidence it is probably going to be an underfunded operation with overly grandiose pretensions taking them right back into the vicious circle they seem condemned to repeat ad nauseam.

Ashley has the muscle to strongarm the various spivs to give up or greatly dilute their onerous contracts and I suspect that is what has been happening behind the scenes.

From Ashley’s point of view I believe that what is being sought is a stable, self-financing operation that he can then sell on whilst retaining income streams of importance to SD.

I also suspect that he will come to some arrangement with the SFA to dispose of his interest once he has stabilised the club.

The problem for RIFC/TRFC fans is that Ashley is not going to fund some mythical “return to where they belong”, though that is beginning to appear to be the second division of the SPFL where they are heading to have a regular gig.

Like at Newcastle, Ashley will cut their coat according to their cloth. This will mean, again like at Newcastle, a mid-table team with good runs every so often. If the finances can be fixed then they will have an advantage over most other Scottish clubs but in the main we will be back to actual footballing skills and good management being what is important (pace “honest mistakes”).

With recent results and footballing style clearly those are issues that will require attention and McCoist seems likely to present RIFC/TRFC with an early opportunity to address at least one aspect of that if he continues with his current “I’m a good guy” press campaign. It may take just one unguarded comment or action and he will be out.

But will the Bears go for Ashley’s plan? So far they seem antagonistic and still cling to their belief that the world owes them a top football club regardless of cost.

If the fans don’t get behind the current entity I can see Ashley deciding the game’s not worth it and cashing in his chips. Some ‘Rangers Men’ will probably turn up and create a new entity for The People to believe in and Ashley will continue to draw in income from shirt sales and, most likely, charging fans at the world famous Albion car park which he will then own.

The upcoming AGM is crucial and from what we have seen of Ashley so far he gets what he wants.

The crushing reality about to descend on The People is that there really is no Santa Claus. A Sanity Clause, perhaps but no Santa Claus.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,813 Comments so far

bfbpuzzledPosted on11:04 am - Jan 12, 2015


Niels Bohr one of my favourite football managers as he said “it is difficult to forecast anything particularly about the future” or as John Hughes might say ” Wan game it a time eh”

the Copenhagen Interpretation is Theology of a speculative kind try Jacques Maritain on the degrees of knowledge for the epistemology of the new physics. It all boils down to “Let there be Light” as does TSFM

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ecobhoyPosted on11:08 am - Jan 12, 2015


scapaflow says:
January 12, 2015 at 10:54 am
ecobhoy says:
January 12, 2015 at 10:48 am

That the Herald have agreed to run an ad of this sort, is in itself an indicator of how much has changed.

Here’s hoping, they stand firm, as the cat is now well and truly out of the bag. #Incoming!
=============================================
Oh there will be incoming – of that there is no doubt. But perhaps it really is time for fans to get this sorted out once and for all.

The legal entities that operate the football grounds where OUR clubs play have nothing to say and the Hampden suits continually ignore fans and abuse Scottish Football Governance: So let’s have the debate out in the open.

If we lose it then perhaps it’s time for decent fans to walk away and leave them to play with themselves and like-minded ‘clubs’ whose supporters are happy with the stench of corruption that taints our no longer beautiful game.

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AuldheidPosted on11:14 am - Jan 12, 2015


Scapaflow

Southampton tried the holding company excuse not to be deducted points by the FA.

Plums.

The reason being the only business of the holding company (Southampton Leisure?) was football.

It looks to me as if there is a determined effort by some to turn our football into a franchise.

You cannot franchise communities or community clubs and for all their different sizes, large and small they are community ventures.

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jimlarkinPosted on11:17 am - Jan 12, 2015


Eco

Coverage of Rangers Football Club, BBC Online
This is a consolidated appeal from two complainants who said that a number of reports on the BBC’s website were inaccurate in giving the impression that Rangers Football Club, rather than the company which had previously owned the club, had gone into administration/liquidation. One complainant also asked the Committee to review the Trust Unit’s decision not to accept on appeal elements of his complaint relating to an allegation of institutional bias.
The Committee concluded:
 that the elements of the complaint relating to alleged institutional bias did not qualify for consideration on appeal.
 that the choice of the right language by the BBC was highly dependent on the purpose and context of the output, including the intended audience and, for example, whether it was a sport story or a business story.
 that, while there was no reason to treat the football club itself as “new” simply because the assets that make up the club had been transferred from one company to another, there was good reason to distinguish between “newco” and “oldco” when referring to the owning companies and the corporate transactions involved in the sale of the club.
 that the BBC had not used clear, precise language and due accuracy had not been achieved where the distinction between an “old” and “new” Rangers had been made in output referring to, and related to, football and the club as opposed to the “old” and “new” company.
 that it was likely to be the complex nature of this particular story that had led to the lack of due accuracy and there were no grounds on which to uphold the complaint of bias.
The complaint was upheld in part.
For the finding in full see pages 25 to 35.

……………………

Can you translate this into plain (old or new) English ???

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AuldheidPosted on11:17 am - Jan 12, 2015


Ernie
Valentine’s Clown

Have you read my early morning post?

That is not the advert.

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jimlarkinPosted on11:24 am - Jan 12, 2015


Daily Record
Daily Record
Dictator’s fare

Posted at 09:46
North Korea dictator Kim Jong-un is set to open a new restaurant in Scotland, serving delicacies such as dog meat soup, North Korea experts claim.
Kim Jong un scottish restaurant
This comes after the controversial leader brought his chain, The ‘Pyongyang’ restaurants, over to Europe by launching one in Holland.

…………
Maybe he’s planning to move into Scottish football too
as he likes being described as world record holder or world champion ?????

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ecobhoyPosted on11:24 am - Jan 12, 2015


ET’s examination of the entrails this morning have led it to a prediction of impasse with only 1 Board Seat offered instead of the 2 requested. However as I mentioned earlier what use are 2 against the 4 current incumbents?

ET betting on King to go for EGM. I suppose it makes sense for him to do it and keep the 3B at arms length although they will I assume support King in any votes.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/rangers-egm-moves-closer-amid-boardroom-stand-off-with-the-bears-as-194015n.115942762

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tayredPosted on11:26 am - Jan 12, 2015


Well Eco, I agree and disagree – I fear it will ever be so between us 😆

A few points taken in random order.

The alcohol at the ground issue, I have never been one for getting tanked up prior to a game either, but I don’t think there will be much trouble at the ground, or in the immediate precinct around the ground. The trouble will come in the city, the bars, the clubs and, the most repugnant of the lot, in the home.

Now, this standalone message might not add much, but it will add to the resentment and we have to hope the press guys play their part properly here. I hope the SMSM will have learnt that they are playing with fire. No matter what club we support here, we all can provide examples where a wee garden bondie of a story has been built up into city incinerator by the press prior to certain games. In my experience the Aberdeen v Rangers hatred especially during the late 80’s – 90’s is a prime example. I’m not sure giving the SMSM this “purest green” fire to play with is the best path, when we could put a multi-coloured fire guard of sorts around the story.

OK, I’ll stop with the naff metaphors, I’m starting to sound like Will.i.am – I have a daughter who insists we watch the voice… Who’d have thunk he would know “fit like”, his PA is from Aberdeen apparently…

This isn’t a sectarian issue. Or at least it isn’t to me, nor I imagine to many others that frequent this space. This is a mismanagement on a colossal scale mixed with disgraceful behaviour but the “establishment” issue. So, I’ll not jump in on your first moments, cos I don’t find them relevant. As for dilution and self-importance. I agree that the %’s have dropped, eyes and minds are being opened. But, it only takes a few to cause trouble.

My biggest problem is possibly the timing. Why now? Why do this just when tensions are being built again in advance of the big show down we have all apparently been waiting for? It smacks a little of opportunism. But again, I can’t condemn the drive or the purpose, and I wish the very best of luck to them! But with a little more foresight of fans from each and every club the message could be orders of magnitude more powerful. Perhaps, in that respect you are right. Maybe us diddy club fans have a tendency to just wait and see what comes out from the “big” clubs. Years of being continuously put down as an irrelevancy takes a long time to shake off.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:29 am - Jan 12, 2015


jimlarkin says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:24 am

Maybe he’s planning to move into Scottish football too
as he likes being described as world record holder or world champion ?????
===========================================
Well he’ll need to move fast if he wants to beat Charlie’s sprint records which are of course also a World Record.

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erniePosted on11:32 am - Jan 12, 2015


Auldheid says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:17 am
0 0 Rate This

Ernie
Valentine’s Clown

Have you read my early morning post?

That is not the advert.
====================
Yes, I was only commenting though. Look forward to seeing the real thing in print. Also, while I’m on the naughty step, the sponsors also need to tighten up their security, there will be many a game played between what was leaked and the final product. PR is a dirty business!

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scapaflowPosted on11:39 am - Jan 12, 2015


Auldheid says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:14 am

I am aware, unfortunately we have to rely on the feckwits on the boards at Hampden 👿

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AuldheidPosted on11:41 am - Jan 12, 2015


Ernie

In a cloud project it is impossible to maintain tight security by the very nature of the process.

I was not trying to put anyone on the naughty step just alerting folk that all was not as presented.

In doing so I suppose there is a degree of countering attempts to ferment bad PR but given the source of the Tweet I saw I think it was down to non poo stirring motives.

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y4rmyPosted on11:44 am - Jan 12, 2015


So to sum up, we are lead to believe emergency loans are being offered to pay off the…er…emergency loans in return for boardroom impotence? How is that progress? There has to be more to it than that.

Right? 😕

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woodsteinPosted on11:45 am - Jan 12, 2015


valentinesclown says:

January 12, 2015 at 10:21 am

Here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v97ebkgr6ydrapr/Statement%20Celtic%20Supporters.jpg?dl=0

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jimlarkinPosted on11:47 am - Jan 12, 2015


ecobhoy says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:29 am
2 0 Rate This

jimlarkin says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:24 am

Maybe he’s planning to move into Scottish football too
as he likes being described as world record holder or world champion ?????
===========================================
Well he’ll need to move fast if he wants to beat Charlie’s sprint records which are of course also a World Record.

……………………………………..
Maybe he could just buy the titles from Charlie

(I’m guessing that the Sprint world record would be sold seperately from the Rangers* world records)

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woodsteinPosted on12:00 pm - Jan 12, 2015


woodstein says:

January 12, 2015 at 11:45 am

should have added this is not the article for publication (see previous posts)

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AuldheidPosted on12:05 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Tayred

There is one word to sum up why a central message from all clubs is not currently possible. Capacity.

The mechanisms for consultation do not exist. No one has the authority to propose then vet then agree content and dissemination on any project.

Supporters Trusts might be a route but when the CST tried an initiative in the last year or so ( on the OBB I think) it was disrupted by supporters of another club’s trust.

Supporters Direct are too much dependent on SFA goodwill and Govt funding to take on the challenging role required so in the absence of wider capacity there is an element of make do and mend.

The capacity to consult needs to be built first and I’m a believer in the imperfect letter that a son sends his mother is better than the perfect one he never writes.

There is nothing to stop supporters of other clubs, once the final version is published, learning from that experience and the reaction to the advert.

The very fact the initiative, which does carry risks, is necessary at all tells a story of itself.

On the general point about provoking, should we let the possibility of outrage at stating a position stop us from stating it?

Very topical. If there is no intent to provoke then why should those stating their position in a hopefully civil manner have to think twice about doing so?

Being offended says more about the offended than the offender.

I’m not suggesting print and be damned but I would like a more tolerant attitude and some introspection from those who will be all too ready to do the judging and damning.

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ecobhoyPosted on12:05 pm - Jan 12, 2015


jimlarkin says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:17 am

Obviously I read the ‘PR release’ on the BBC website but there’s a lot more meat in the actual report to the BBC Trust.

At the end of the day the BBC has a set position on what terminology should be used in what context.

So if BBC Scotland journos or indeed Bbc journos anywhere are breaking the guidelines and anyone takes exception to this the way to test the argument is to lodge a complaint citing the BBC Trust findings.

I personally am not phased enough about it to invest the time and energy but that my personal position taking into account a rough cost/benefit analysis of what my action or inaction would achieve.

Others may well come to a different conclusion and I would take no exception to that as I don’t necessarily believe there is a simple yes or no decision to be made about whether to make a complaint.

Although I do believe it is the only way to test the strength of the complaint and possibly to ensure greater adherence to BBC editorial guidelines in future.

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TartanwulverPosted on12:09 pm - Jan 12, 2015


bfbpuzzled says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:04 am

Niels Bohr one of my favourite football managers as he said “it is difficult to forecast anything particularly about the future” or as John Hughes might say ” Wan game it a time eh”
——————————————
See also the development of ‘Schroedinger’s Catenaccio’ a system of both attack and defence at the same time – ‘the problem is that most of the people who copied me copied me wrongly. They forgot to include the attacking principles that it included’ (Helenio Herrera)

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scapaflowPosted on12:19 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Robert sarvar has exited stage right

http://www.investegate.co.uk/robert-sarver/rns/statement-of-intention-not-to-make-an-offer/201501121213409152B/

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beatipacificiscotiaPosted on12:22 pm - Jan 12, 2015


woodstein says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:45 am

valentinesclown says:
January 12, 2015 at 10:21 am
Here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v97ebkgr6ydrapr/Statement%20Celtic%20Supporters.jpg?dl=0

+++++++++++++++

An interesting document. I hope the final document is more of a challenge to the SFA. There are many historical facts that are simply overlooked / ignored in this saga.

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James DolemanPosted on12:24 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Mr Sarvar drops out of the bidding for TRFC

rangersonlineloyal.co.uk/Saving_Rangers_about23874.html

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redlichtiePosted on12:28 pm - Jan 12, 2015


And so Mr Sarver departs – job done?

Whilst he offers warm words and reserves the right to return, was his purpose just to provoke the 4Bs into wasting their precious money on buying shares that may soon become worthless? Shares that potentially lock them in to having to fund this ongoing saga and thus making the spivs even richer for a little while longer?

Is MA chortling into his pint this lunchtime?

Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

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wottpiPosted on12:30 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Just noting that while shares appear to have been traded I still see no TR-1 being posted as RNS to confirm who has sold and who has bought.

The forms for Three Bears and Laxey are there but nothing for the King deals.

Is the mere informing the board that a deal was struck enough or should it be recorded and reported in this formal manner?

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ecobhoyPosted on12:43 pm - Jan 12, 2015


wottpi says:
January 12, 2015 at 12:30 pm

The forms for Three Bears and Laxey are there but nothing for the King deals.
==============================================================
The Darkside is predicting that King is jetting into Glasgow today. Not sure whether to smap-up more shares or to launch a blitz-egm.

And Mr sarver exits stage left – OK perhaps he was a puppet on a string to offer temporary distraction but is he was simply a clown what a lucky escape he has had.

He may be a banker but I doubt if he realised that UK Spivvery requires not Merchant of Venice banking experience but advanced qualifications in surgery and the ability to remove not pounds but warchests without killing the donor.

And the rangeritis anaesthesia renders the whole process totally painless and no memory is retained on awakening from a dream that almost became a potential nightmare.

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tayredPosted on12:45 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Auldheid

Sorry, I feel I haven’t made all of what I was trying to say clear.

“On the general point about provoking, should we let the possibility of outrage at stating a position stop us from stating it?”

Lord no, in fact quite the opposite. I guess my point I was trying to make in an obviously failed way is that the provocation should come from “us” all. My fear is that the provocation coming purely from the long held enemy of the peepul will cause all the stuff I mentioned earlier. If it were to come from a wider participation then it would hold more power, and be more difficult for the more easily agitated to find a target to aim at in response.

What it does highlight it that some for of common supporters forum is desperately needed. But, yes that is likely to be nigh on impossible. A common supporters forum for each club alone is damn near impossible let alone between clubs!

This has become a more partisan (for want of a better word) discussion than I had ever intended/hoped. My general point still stands though in that I hope the final version when published leans a little more to encompassing the Scottish football community as a whole.

Even simply removing the lurid green from the banner with Celtic splashed all over it, or to push still further change it to” a message from concerned Scottish Football supporters”.

But, that would require dilution of the fact that Celtic supporters have organised and funded this by themselves. I’d understand completely if they would be offended by that suggestion.

I look forward to seeing the final advert, I hope for nothing but good things to come from it. It maybe didn’t sound like it, but I do support the initiative! I just wish me and my pals could have joined in too! What I can say it does already seem to have provoked a level of discussion as to whether other fans should organise similar. Fingers crossed.

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ecobhoyPosted on1:04 pm - Jan 12, 2015


I see that Sarver has praised Bears for there warm support which tbf was ‘different’ from the reception rolled-out for Miller.

However Sarver says he’ll be there in the future if the fans want him and has retained the right to come back with another offer for 6 months.

Obviously all window-dressing but it seems he has leant a bit about the club’s history wrt ‘saviours’ having to flee for their life and live in safe houses so their fanbase can’t find them 😉

I predict that Sarver and the Texas Rangers or was it the Dallas Cowboys are well suited to each other 😆

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AuldheidPosted on1:10 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Tayred

I understood your position fine and a bad cold and small mobile phone screen made that harder to get across.

Sometimes a post raises points of general interest but because it’s in a reply it can be taken by addressee as being only for them.

I try to avoid that by making it clear in the opening para but I’m not on top of my game right now.

Everything you said has validity. Overcoming the problem of capacity rivalry etc is the issue.

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erniePosted on1:11 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Auldheid says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:41 am
=======================
Point taken Auldheid. In my shady, corporate past we would never have drafted such a missive by committee or on the cloud (?) but that’s a reflection of their non-democratic approach compared to CQN. It does make it more difficult though. A safer way would be a consensus of target, message, points to be made, responses required then leave it to two or three to compose? This, of course, practically rules out a pan Scottish fitba message which is one reason why I back a unilateral approach by Celtic fans. Other fan groups could do something similar, it would be powerful if they did.
I hope the ad will generate/force a discussion on the big lie.

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joe millers shortsPosted on1:14 pm - Jan 12, 2015


I enjoyed reading the BBC complaint judgement. It just shows that with a careful selection of sources of evidence and verbal sophistry anything can be explained. Nimmo Smith and lord Hodge are used by the BBC as sources when both were being given distorted views of reality in the terms of reference and evidence they were presented with.

From the BBC judgement I still can’t understand why TRFC had to play in bottom tier or why they had to play in the early rounds of the cup. These were football issues for the club, in the BBC version of reality surely the company business dealings would have no affect on football matters?

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alzipratuPosted on1:20 pm - Jan 12, 2015


I’ve been contacted recently by a few people seeking information. I don’t have much to contribute nor do I wish to contribute anymore, but this is what I do know and made known to a select few people back in September:

Betts & Ellis have taken up singing. Sweet, sweet music for everyone – even Rangers fans & Sevconians – provided somebody in London has balls to take it public. If I had been involved in Rangers or either Sevco, I would be very worried. If I was a bampot, I’d be worried about a deal being cut.

As you all know, there is an ongoing criminal investigation so I can’t and won’t say more. Indeed, I would urge you to let plod deal with the crooks and focus, instead, upon the corruption and incompetence of the SFA, SPL & SPFL where you can make not just a big difference, but THE difference. In that respect, I think the CQN initiative is an excellent start and would hope that it’d be endorsed by fans of all clubs in weeks to come.

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scapaflowPosted on1:33 pm - Jan 12, 2015


alzipratu says:
January 12, 2015 at 1:20 pm

Music to my ears :mrgreen:

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HamerdoonPosted on1:38 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Auldheid

I hope you don’t mind my additional ruminations to the CQN draft advert, over an above the excellent and diplomatically made points of Tayred (please be assured I’m a admirer of your continuing work to bring this matter to the foreground).

– Could I suggest that it sound a tad less antagonistic in places e.g. lower division club reference.
– Could you call out Doncaster and LN directly laying out the regulatory reasons (SFA/SPFL and company law) and suggest strongly that the matter will not rest as most supporters believe the same.
– Could you tone down the Celtic aspect slightly and make it possible for fans from other clubs to contribute to the advert (we could even do it via this site if TSFM was willing) – depending on results of this, it would entitle you to develop the other clubs’ supporters being involved theme.

There was a truly great post the other day (sorry name escapes me momentarily and I’m on a different computer) that linked what’s happening in Scottish Football to that generally taking place in society, especially in relation to the SMSM. It mirrored my own thoughts completely. Consequently, for all sorts of reasons, it would be somewhat cathartic for someone like me to be able to play a part in your endeavour.

With best wishes and respect.

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roddybhoyPosted on1:43 pm - Jan 12, 2015


As an avid reader/ occasional poster on this great site and CQN I have just read the statement from Celtic Supporters to be published in the Herald. While I agree in everything it has said , I think it should have been more focused on the SFA and SPFLs corruptness with regards to Rangers / The Rangers . How important facts were deliberateley witheld from the LNS enquiry leading to Rangers escaping unpunished for major crimes committed in scottish football. I dont think Rangers/The Rangers are the major problem now in Scottish football, it has long gone beyond that. It is the SFA and SPFL . Fix that and Rangers/ The Rangers will be dealt with according to the rule book. The way it should be for them and ALL clubs who step out of line. In no way am I having a go at the hard work or the good intentions that has went on behind the scenes to get the ad to the point of the Herald. I just feel we should be pointing the finger at the people who are paid handsomely to govern the game but are not doing so, turning a blind eye when it suits a certain club and downright ignoring their own rule book

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wottpiPosted on1:45 pm - Jan 12, 2015


joe millers shorts says:
January 12, 2015 at 1:14 pm

And that is the crux of the matter for any football fan.
Sod all the legal decisions, discussions, jargon etc etc.

What footballing rule or law was broken that resulted in the football club playing out of Ibrox playing in the bottom tier if, as claimed by the SPFL CEO and intimated by the SFA CEO, that it is the same club?

I for one can see why the Bears would be raging at such nonsense as it meant no SPL, no 2nd place euro qualification and a long journey back.

The answer is that (as points deductions etc had already been issued for going into Admin) no footballing rule law was broken other than by going into liquidation meant the club died with the company it was attached/incorporated to and a new club was formed that some people felt needed to be accommodated somewhere within the professional football leagues.

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ecobhoyPosted on1:47 pm - Jan 12, 2015


joe millers shorts says:
January 12, 2015 at 1:14 pm

I enjoyed reading the BBC complaint judgement. It just shows that with a careful selection of sources of evidence and verbal sophistry anything can be explained. Nimmo Smith and lord Hodge are used by the BBC as sources when both were being given distorted views of reality in the terms of reference and evidence they were presented with.

From the BBC judgement I still can’t understand why TRFC had to play in bottom tier or why they had to play in the early rounds of the cup. These were football issues for the club, in the BBC version of reality surely the company business dealings would have no affect on football matters?
======================================================================

I very much take on board you commnents about ‘careful selection of sources of evidence and verbal sophistry’ although tbf that isn’t necessarily one way traffic.

However the importance of the appeal decision IMO isn’t so much the faulty premises it might have been derived from but the fact that the Decision becomes the ‘Law’ wrt BBC editorial guidelines that its journalists must follow.

So if they don’t follow these guidelines we have them by the short and curlies because it’s not our interpretation that matters it’s what the BBC has decided is ‘fact’.

So BBC have set their standard and where their employees ignore or breach it then action will need to be taken and if the situation continues then big asses at BBC Scotland will be kicked all the way from London.

I’m not too clear wrt the point you are making in the 2nd para as I would agree that the decisions involved are footballing ones. I think the BBC have used the same mechanism I recommend above by accepting the footballing decisions at face value.

Where the BBC apply their interpretation to the footballing decisions IMO is when there is a change of context vis-a-vis business and on-the-field activities.

Because part of the rationale in the BBC position is the two scenarios produce a change in the meaning of the terminology used.

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Paulmac2Posted on1:55 pm - Jan 12, 2015


The transfer window in England closes on Monday the 2nd of February…can anyone confirm when the Scottish football transfer window closes?

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CastofthousandsPosted on2:04 pm - Jan 12, 2015


jimlarkin says:
January 12, 2015 at 11:17 am

“Can you translate this into plain (old or new) English ???”
———————————–
When the BBC are commenting on business aspects of Rangers the use of Oldco and Newco is appropriate since it helps distinguish between two distinct business entities. For instance, the outcome of HMRC’s pursuance of the big tax case would sensibly be couched in terms of Oldco and Newco since this would clarify where any sanctions might rest.

When reporting on sporting matters the Oldco/Newco distinction may be regarded as irrelevant. Rangers fans consider the current business to be a continuation of the old business and from an emotional standpoint making a distinction between the two might be seen as provocative.

There is an argument that even in the sporting sphere that the Oldco/Newco distinction is far from irrelevant. Indeed there might be circumstances where such a distinction might be made given the appropriate context. Fans of other clubs might feel that adherence to the continuity perspective misses important elements that exist within sporting rivalry.

However I think the BBC have fundamentally accepted that they need to be careful about the feelings of Rangers fans. That this in itself may be insensitive toward the feelings of fans of other clubs is a quandary that this ruling was not designed to address.

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bluPosted on2:11 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Paulmac, according to http://www.epfl-europeanleagues.com the window is:

Start: 03.01.2015 – 00h | Close: 02.02.2015 – 24h

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easyJamboPosted on2:12 pm - Jan 12, 2015


TSFM – Response times have just gone way up in the last 5 or 10 minutes or so. May be some sort of attempt at a denial of service.

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on2:21 pm - Jan 12, 2015


ecobhoy says:

January 12, 2015 at 1:04 pm
___________________________________________________________
However Sarver says he’ll be there in the future if the fans want him and has retained the right to come back with another offer for 6 months.
___________________________________________________________

I retain the right to bid for a Ferrari F430 in 6 months time

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BawsmanPosted on2:28 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Paulmac2 says:
January 12, 2015 at 1:55 pm
4 0 i
Rate This

The transfer window in England closes on Monday the 2nd of February…can anyone confirm when the Scottish football transfer window closes?

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At a time deemed most benificial to Scotland’s most important team…..of course.

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CastofthousandsPosted on2:34 pm - Jan 12, 2015


I too had reservations concerning the CQN article proposed for publication in the Sunday Herald. Whilst I agree to some extent with posters who advise caution, I think Auldheid has made some cogent arguments.

That the advertisement has been proffered by a group of fans with a historical rivalry with the entity concerned in some ways defuses the potential tension. If this script had been agreed with fans of many clubs it might have been seen as ‘the world’s against us’ by Rangers fans. That it might be dismissed as coming from a partisan forum will not erase the fact of its existence.

I am reminded of the Livingston programme’s author with respect to the text. Although it is more biting it is still fairly factual. The intended effect and likely effect are obviously more difficult to ascertain. It could be logically argued that to have a public record of certain facts is useful both for the historic narrative and also as a potential information source for those that might not be aware or are unsure about the details. The negative impact might to be to further entrench attitudes and increase friction.

I’m not sure if there was ever going to be a cost neutral method of publicising information that may be crucial to the outcome of the ongoing saga. CQN have made their decision and on the whole I can understand their perspective

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easyJamboPosted on2:39 pm - Jan 12, 2015


TSFM – Responses now back to normal. :mrgreen:

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jw hardinPosted on2:40 pm - Jan 12, 2015


After the Doncaster statement I emailed CFC for their view and receive:

Good Morning

Thank you for your email regarding comments made recently by Neil Doncaster. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding, I had an extended break at new year and only returned to work at the end of last week.

As you may expect I have had a few emails about this matter and in order that I can respond consistently and as quickly as possible I have prepared a standard response based on my understanding of the situation from Celtic’s perspective.

As we announced in February 2011, we have a standalone strategy that does not rely on any club.

That strategy has been successful. We do not need to talk about any other club. We focus on our club.

These are the facts:-

* The Rangers Football Club plc went into administration in March 2012 and liquidation in November 2012.
* Sevco Scotland Limited, later renamed The Rangers Football Club Limited, applied to be, and became, a member of the Scottish FA and the Scottish Football League in summer 2012.
* In the Scottish FA and SPFL competitions, there is a team called Rangers FC, which plays at Ibrox, trains at Murray Park, and has the same crest, strip and supporters as before.
* We need to play whoever we are asked to play in those competitions.

As a club, we stopped referring to the Old Firm some time ago, as we did not think that the term was relevant.

We will continue to focus on our own club and being as successful as we can be by beating whichever team is put in front of us.

To date I’m not aware of any plans for the Club to comment further on this matter however this may change, this is only my own assessment of things as they stand at present.

Best regards

There does however seem to be a contradiction in “As a club we stopped referring to Old Firm some time ago”, and “this is only my own assessment”.

ps re CFC Supporters’ statement – ye canny wack bullet points for clarity.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:40 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Castofthousands says:
January 12, 2015 at 2:04 pm

However I think the BBC have fundamentally accepted that they need to be careful about the feelings of Rangers fans. That this in itself may be insensitive toward the feelings of fans of other clubs is a quandary that this ruling was not designed to address.
————————————————————
Which of course takes us back to a fresh complaint being made where the current reporting doesn’t follow the newly established guidelines.

As I sayit could give an interesting rethink of the Decision by the BBC but it’s a question as to whether the effort involved is worth it and I personally don’t think it is.

But I accept without hesitation that others might and have an absolute right to test both their perception and the original BBC Trust ruling.

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CastofthousandsPosted on2:42 pm - Jan 12, 2015


alzipratu says:
January 12, 2015 at 1:20 pm

“Betts & Ellis have taken up singing.”
————————————-
Interesting. I wasn’t sure what PMcG meant when he mentioned Mr. Ellis recent affliction of sonorous exposition but your corroboration makes it clear that important information sources may be providing data. Since Ellis and Betts have been involved from a very early stage implies that they might have a story to tell. This further suggests that any detente may be breaking down and that the impending legal proceedings make it ‘every man for himself’.

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mcfcPosted on3:07 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Bear Bum Rush

Way behind with my reading so forgive me if this has been said, but my guess is that MA wants to keep his onerous contract money coming in whilst someone else pays for the team to play football, repair Ibrox etc – which he doesn’t give a flying feck about.

Seems to me that MA has used RS to give G&3B the bum’s rush into buying shares they probably hadn’t planned to just yet. By doing so he’s engineered a situation where no-one will get a 75% vote for anything anytime soon. G&3B are now centre stage with responsibility for keeping the lights on whilst having no real power to do much and no funded long-term plan – compared to MA who has less than 10% of the shares and a nice little earner plus some secured loans against strategic assets. Chapeau MA, chapeau !

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John ClarkPosted on3:17 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Just on the CQN thingy ( excellent piece of work, by the way, and some very useful suggestions of ways that it might get even more widespread support), will the Herald be ‘Charlie Hebdo’ enough to run the ad?
And I don’t think I’m being groundlessly facetious in asking the question, given how afraid they as much as the other papers have been to offend the people.

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mcfcPosted on3:19 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Sofa CAsh

There’s an interesting lack of transfer gossip around G51 which does not bode well for cost reduction or a badly needed trickle of sofa-cash to keep the wolf from the door. Maybe the end of Jan is beyond the financial planning horizon of the blue room denizens.

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slimshady61Posted on3:20 pm - Jan 12, 2015


tayred says:
January 12, 2015 at 12:45 pm
—————————-
I suggest you let the advert run and if any Scottish football supporter backs all or part of its sentiment, write to the paper and say so.

Fans paddle their own canoes and that’s as it should be; heaven forfend we all start agreeing with each other.

For my part, I would prefer a shorter more concise statement along the lines of “Rangers Are Dead, get over it. We have.”

54-0

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GoosyGoosyPosted on3:50 pm - Jan 12, 2015


James Doleman says:
January 12, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Mr Sarvar drops out of the bidding for TRFC
,,,,,,,
That reminds me of something

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Oh Dear
Some news just hits you out of the blue
But not this one

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The Rangers nil? Who missed the penalty?Posted on3:55 pm - Jan 12, 2015


slimshady61 says:
January 12, 2015 at 3:20 pm

As accurate and concise as ever, Slim. Where the hell have you been? I, for one, have missed you.

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ecobhoyPosted on4:00 pm - Jan 12, 2015


jimlarkin says:
January 12, 2015 at 3:48 pm
jw hardin says:
January 12, 2015 at 2:40 pm

* Point 3
“* In the Scottish FA and SPFL competitions, there is a team called Rangers FC, which plays at Ibrox, trains at Murray Park, and has the same crest, strip and supporters as before.”

The Team is called – The Rangers (are they not) ?
===================================================

I think this goes back to something I posted the other day about the rule books which states that it is the club that plays football. It isn’t a team. It isn’t 22 players. It’s the ‘club’.

I know – totally archaic – but there has to be something for a ‘club’ to do otherwise it’s existance would be irrelevant and if that was the case it couldn’t live for ever.

I trust the heavy irony is obvious to all 😕

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jimlarkinPosted on4:00 pm - Jan 12, 2015


https://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/shareholders-circular.pdf

After reading Alzipratu’s post – I had to remind myself of who
“Ellis and Betts” were.

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Danish PastryPosted on4:04 pm - Jan 12, 2015


@Jim, I’ve just done the same, though wandered a little down market. From the irreplaceable Jim Traynor:

RANGERS director Phil Betts was paid more than £160,000 in eight months while the club were being dragged into administration.

Betts, a tax specialist, made the equivalent of £5000 a week while on the board.

The cash was paid from the account which held the £24.4million paid to Rangers by London firm Ticketus for the rights to future season ticket sales.

It’s understood one payment to Betts, on September 8 last year, was for £85,000.

And fans will be astonished that a director was receiving such huge amounts of money at a time when Rangers were withholding PAYE and VAT cash from the tax authorities.

Betts was Craig Whyte’s first appointment to the Ibrox board after taking over the club last May, and was a director for six-and-a-half months. He quit in January.

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The Rangers nil? Who missed the penalty?Posted on4:06 pm - Jan 12, 2015


jimlarkin says:
January 12, 2015 at 3:48 pm

There does however seem to be a contradiction in “As a club we stopped referring to Old Firm some time ago”, and “this is only my own assessment”.

/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /

No contradiction, IMO.

I think the “only my assessment” bit refers to the club having no intention to comment further, rather than the “As a club we stopped referring to Old Firm some time ago” bit.

Fully in agreement regarding bullet points for clarity, however.

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ecobhoyPosted on4:09 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Castofthousands says:
January 12, 2015 at 2:42 pm

Since Ellis and Betts have been involved from a very early stage implies that they might have a story to tell.
===========================================
Shirly: ‘A story to sing’ 😆

Possibly: Penny Opera: Rocky Horror Show: Your Land is My Land – apologies to Woddy Guthrie – and I’m sure others will think of many more especially ones suitable for humming.

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ecobhoyPosted on4:21 pm - Jan 12, 2015


mcfc says:
January 12, 2015 at 3:19 pm

Sofa CAsh

There’s an interesting lack of transfer gossip around G51 which does not bode well for cost reduction or a badly needed trickle of sofa-cash to keep the wolf from the door.
======================================================================
I have a wee feeling there will actually be frantic activity behind the blue veils.

However I think when T’Rangers quote the fee required they’re met with a gale of laughter and told to get back in touch with a sensible starting point the day before the window closes and not before.

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MaBawPosted on4:26 pm - Jan 12, 2015


http://truthaboutfranchisefc.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/franchise-fc-is-not-legal-continuation.html

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joe millers shortsPosted on4:29 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Even if a club gets in touch about signing a Rangers player, the interest will diminish somewhat when they find out what they are earning. the possible exceptions are the relatively poorly paid young players as we have already seen.

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Ron.an.MathPosted on4:54 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Surely the point about all the BBC trust stuff is that it is all post-apocalyptic revisionist bollocks ? ?
Neither the bbc nor its commercial rivals indulged in any of this brain dead sophistry in the 18 month or so lead-up to admin/liquidation . .
The crucial point of course being that they spent that period pooh poohing the ridiculous idea that the mighty gers were about to go bust . . .
No need for a seperate club /company fable if it wasnt going to happen anyway. .
I genuinely sympathise with the delahunts and richard gordons etc who must cringe with intellectual embarrassment every time the are obliged to promulgate the same club pish. .

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AuldheidPosted on5:01 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Hammerdoon
Roddyboy
John Clark

The ad was accepted by the Herald after being checked by their legals so it will be difficult to stop without causing a bigger problem than publishing it would.

From memory the accepted version addresses some of the points folks have made but not bullet points, which I personally favour but deadlines were too tight to restyle once revisions agreed.

The initiative was CQN driven and all credit lies there. My role was minor and mainly at the latter stages of production but as a result and knowing what was being presented as the final I felt I had to tell folk it wasn’t.

Castofthousands
Thanks for words of support and let’s hope it is the first of many beacons to shine light on what is ethically unacceptable, even for football.

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HaywirePosted on5:04 pm - Jan 12, 2015


ecobhoy says:
January 12, 2015 at 4:09 pm

Castofthousands says:
January 12, 2015 at 2:42 pm

Since Ellis and Betts have been involved from a very early stage implies that they might have a story to tell.
===========================================
Shirly: ‘A story to sing’ 😆

Possibly: Penny Opera: Rocky Horror Show: Your Land is My Land – apologies to Woddy Guthrie – and I’m sure others will think of many more especially ones suitable for humming.

———————————————————————

It’s got to be, ‘Is that all there is?’, beautifully drawled by Peggy Lee.

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jimlarkinPosted on5:23 pm - Jan 12, 2015


MaBaw says:
January 12, 2015 at 4:26 pm
6 0 Rate This

http://truthaboutfranchisefc.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/franchise-fc-is-not-legal-continuation.html

………………………….

The guy will be on speed dial for the Sevconians.

His “Facts” are “Facts”
The real “Facts”
(Liquidation, Licence not in the SFA rule book etc)
are not “Facts”, they can’t be “Facts” if the “Facts” are different from your “Facts”, so that means the “Facts” are wrong.
………………………………….

I,m sue he agrees
. . . the emperor’s new clothes are lovely jubbly!

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causaludendiPosted on5:25 pm - Jan 12, 2015


slimshady61 says:
January 12, 2015 at 3:20 pm
______________________________

Slim 😛 😛

54 tae zip

😀

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jimlarkinPosted on5:38 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Auldheid says:
January 12, 2015 at 5:01 pm
4 0 Rate This

Hammerdoon
Roddyboy
John Clark

The ad was accepted by the Herald after being checked by their legals so it will be difficult to stop without causing a bigger problem than publishing it would.

From memory the accepted version addresses some of the points folks have made but not bullet points, which I personally favour but deadlines were too tight to restyle once revisions agreed.

The initiative was CQN driven and all credit lies there. My role was minor and mainly at the latter stages of production but as a result and knowing what was being presented as the final I felt I had to tell folk it wasn’t.

Castofthousands
Thanks for words of support and let’s hope it is the first of many beacons to shine light on what is ethically unacceptable, even for football.

………………..

Any idea of when it will be published?

I never buy papers (for this very reason) but I will certainly buy one or more of the Herald that day
(I’m sure my work colleagues would appreciate a free read in the canteen…who can resist a fly read of a free paper)

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oddjobPosted on5:39 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Ecobhoy’s music list,

Sing you Sinners……Tony Bennett.

I guess I’ll have to change my plan……… Fred Astaire.

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jimlarkinPosted on5:42 pm - Jan 12, 2015


On the BBCRADIOSCOTLAND/SPORT

Chris McG and Al Lamont “discussing, Rangers* and the 3 berz”

Chris says to Al – I’m sure this will run for a quite a while…

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mcfcPosted on5:42 pm - Jan 12, 2015


Is That All You’ve Got George?

Just read McLaugh-in’s Q&A which paints G&3B in the ascendancy and MA out manoeuvred. In my view MA will allow G&3B to punch themselves out with short term loans against nothing much and share issues and warchests. When they have had enough and will burn no more cash, MA will resume his pursuit of the remaining IP, in his role as lender of last resort. The SFA and SPFL will find themselves arbiters of whether MA is allowed “influence” to save The Rangers or they should be allowed to die.

This game is very expensive so the natural advantage lies with the guy with the biggest pot, the lowest costs, the highest income and no time pressures. Chris did you consider this possibility?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30783217

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wottpiPosted on5:44 pm - Jan 12, 2015


I for one wholly understand the point about fans wanting to be the spiritual continuation of a club that went tits up.

Does that mean that the blokes running Third Lanark and Gretna 2008 can argue that they are the spiritual continuation of the old clubs and demand a place in the professional ranks as they never should have been thrown out in the first place over a silly little thing like being liquidated?

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TartanwulverPosted on5:50 pm - Jan 12, 2015


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30783217

I like this…with specific regard to the Sarver scenario, Chris McLaughlin says (tongue in cheek presumably) that

“It’s understood he has been monitoring the European sport market for some time and was initially keen to invest in England or Spain but he was seduced by the mayhem in Govan.”

So now we know why so many investors have felt drawn to part with their money in the direction of the Fruity King Arena…they have been attracted to the capacity for ongoing chaos, something that has of course been in plentiful supply. And it makes as much sense as most of the other reasons put forward.

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mcfcPosted on5:59 pm - Jan 12, 2015


rhapsodyinblue says:
January 12, 2015 at 5:45 pm
Ban me if you like, but you need to hear it.
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I look forward to the reposte from the bears – good news for the papers for once, if the OCNC arguement is conducted in full page ads over the next million years.

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cavansamPosted on5:59 pm - Jan 12, 2015


rhapsodyinblue

Sectarianism?

You guys are as predictable as the sun rising.

No wonder your club is in the gutter.

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bfbpuzzledPosted on6:09 pm - Jan 12, 2015


By definition anything which does not adhere totally to the TRFC line seems to be sectarian or bigoted according to the TRFC adherents. That is why liquidation came and will come again -albeit you only live once Mr Sarver talked today on sky new about the franchise which sums it up.

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