A Guest blog by redlichtie for TSFM
From what I can see Mike Ashley is likely to be the only game in town for RIFC/TRFC fans unless they want to see another of their clubs go through administration/liquidation.
That particular scenario potentially allows for a phoenix to arise from the ashes but on past evidence it is probably going to be an underfunded operation with overly grandiose pretensions taking them right back into the vicious circle they seem condemned to repeat ad nauseam.
Ashley has the muscle to strongarm the various spivs to give up or greatly dilute their onerous contracts and I suspect that is what has been happening behind the scenes.
From Ashley’s point of view I believe that what is being sought is a stable, self-financing operation that he can then sell on whilst retaining income streams of importance to SD.
I also suspect that he will come to some arrangement with the SFA to dispose of his interest once he has stabilised the club.
The problem for RIFC/TRFC fans is that Ashley is not going to fund some mythical “return to where they belong”, though that is beginning to appear to be the second division of the SPFL where they are heading to have a regular gig.
Like at Newcastle, Ashley will cut their coat according to their cloth. This will mean, again like at Newcastle, a mid-table team with good runs every so often. If the finances can be fixed then they will have an advantage over most other Scottish clubs but in the main we will be back to actual footballing skills and good management being what is important (pace “honest mistakes”).
With recent results and footballing style clearly those are issues that will require attention and McCoist seems likely to present RIFC/TRFC with an early opportunity to address at least one aspect of that if he continues with his current “I’m a good guy” press campaign. It may take just one unguarded comment or action and he will be out.
But will the Bears go for Ashley’s plan? So far they seem antagonistic and still cling to their belief that the world owes them a top football club regardless of cost.
If the fans don’t get behind the current entity I can see Ashley deciding the game’s not worth it and cashing in his chips. Some ‘Rangers Men’ will probably turn up and create a new entity for The People to believe in and Ashley will continue to draw in income from shirt sales and, most likely, charging fans at the world famous Albion car park which he will then own.
The upcoming AGM is crucial and from what we have seen of Ashley so far he gets what he wants.
The crushing reality about to descend on The People is that there really is no Santa Claus. A Sanity Clause, perhaps but no Santa Claus.
Tartanwulver,
Might be the only thing that holds MA away from ‘the button’. Discretion for King re FFP will be easier if the alternative is admin and protest.
How the mighty rangers have fallen article
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/753940672?-11344:801
Graham Spiers version of the truth, the truth some of the smsm put out to us. Shameless.
Barcabhoy says:
January 18, 2015 at 4:43 am
I think in that Ian Fraser article we see the true value to Murray of owning Rangers FC. Not only did it gain him a knighthood, it also Teflon coated him and made him unchallengeable.
Excellent, and brave, though the article is, I suspect the writer will know much more he could write but it has been held back (by his bosses) through the continuing deference shown to the, yet to be disgraced to the level he deserves, Knight of the Realm. Sadly, the meaning of this article will escape all but the most learned of the bears, and it’s content will never be read by the vast majority of their ranks as it will never reach the lower levels of the Scottish media, even within the Herald itself!
Again the value of being a ‘god of Rangersness’ is there, even as his personal downfall becomes more apparent!
….it had provided him with £900 million of debt to bankroll his wide-ranging business operations, which once encompassed commercial property, coal mining, metals trading and football. This was despite the fact that, even at its peak, the turnover of Murray’s group holding company never exceeded £550m.
…you can’t build a football business on overdrafts and borrowing, but that is what Murray seemed to be doing.
…when HBOS collapsed under the weight of massive bad debts and a short-sighted funding model, and the bank succumbed to Lloyds TSB in September 2008, the game was up for Murray. He and other tycoons had been used to picking up the phone to HBOS and receiving hundreds of millions of pounds within hours. That all changed after Murray’s accounts were transferred to Lloyds’s non-core business support unit (BSU), whose goal is to maximise value from distressed borrowers.
Barca…many thanks for the posting of the article from today’s Sunday Herald.
I have included a mere three “edits” but I am left thinking that, even allowing for a bull market at the time of Murray commencing operations, an economics student at “O” level would have laughed at all this…whereas a first year CA “apprentice” 😆 “, like me would have stood back in awe and admiration…and that is what the banking establishment (Edinburgh based!) did! 🙄
The result being that ALL taxpayers and customers, John Clarke(e) in particular, are paying for Murray’s egomaniacal antics, through absolutely no fault of theirs.
valentinesclown says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:26 am
How the mighty rangers have fallen article
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/753940672?-11344:801
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I thought that was a decent article by Spiers – he mentions liquidation, doesn’t say ‘relegation’, notes that the sectarian signing policy has been one source of the club’s alienation. And it gives some insight into the ordinary supporter who has been raised in the Rangers culture. I thought it was good
Well, fair dos spiers gets the club bit right. It’s pretty much everything else I have problem with. Immediate thought. Ask Gus and Dave (he of the Union Jack bed spread) about hearts challenge for the title in 2005 (ish). I wonder if criminally funded unfairness would creep into the answer at all. Alternatively, take a walk over to the Alloa end and ask how easy it’s been for them to sell junior season tickets recently.
Barca, Lurker compare and contrast with the embarrassing nonsense, printed in the Observer, written or, (dictated to?) by Graham Spiers
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jan/18/how-the-mighty-glasgow-rangers-have-fallen
Ian Fraser is probably the best Financial Journalist in the UK, if you haven’t read Shredded, you really should.
#inmyfuturescotland, banks and the business world will be properly regulated, without fear or favour!
Castofthousands says:
January 17, 2015 at 10:37 pm
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Zilch says:
January 17, 2015 at 9:59 am
“They have a choice to make. Do they stoke the fires in advance in a desperate attempt to boost their flagging sales?”
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As witnessed in the proverbial tale of the scorpion crossing the rover on the back of a frog, of course they will. It is in their nature. Any unfortunate aftermath may prove even more newsworthy. These are not guardians of the moral fibre of society.
————
Agreed.
Yet there is no end to their brass neck.
The subsequent handwringing and mock-outrage will fill weeks of newsprint. Everyone’s fault but theirs – the SMSM.
Bottom feeders at the fullest depths of the ocean tower above the likes of these.
Tartanwulver says:
January 18, 2015 at 9:52 am
Everything you say makes perfect sense, so probably won’t come to pass. And I’m not kidding.
There are so many things that have happened that just didn’t make sense, or only made sense if the competing parties were actually in cahoots, so who can predict how Ashley, or anyone, might proceed?
I’d love Ashley, or ‘his’ board, to call out King over his disbarment (from a directorship) and criminal convictions, but wouldn’t be surprised if we hear nothing about this from him or the board. You would think that it would be a natural way forward to give a hammer-blow to King in this way, painting him, not only as a criminal and as ‘not fit and proper’, but also as a time wasting charlatan who continues to give the bears false hope. But nobody ever seems to want to deliver a knock-out blow to any of their opponents, nobody ever completely disappears.
One question that comes to me is: why has King put himself forward as a director (unless he has been given some ‘immunity’ from his dodgy past) knowing (surely) that it could make progress difficult for his proposal, if not actually scupper it? Is this just another bout of sabre rattling by a man trying to position himself for a time when he has to compete with other Real Rangers Men for whatever’s left when the spivs have sucked the carcass dry? Does he want to fail?
Edit: Does King’s posturing actually suit Ashley and his plans?
Allyjambo says:
January 18, 2015 at 11:23 am
Why should they? As HP as eloquently pointed out, the SFA & everyone else for that matter, is off the hook on this issue, it will be decided in the courts.
Hate to say it, but if, God forbid, I was involved either at the SFA, or Rangers, the advice would be, “This is King’s problem, let him deal with it”
Now,if king is stupid enough to try and appoint himself and Murray minor, to the board, without first seeking permission from the courts, then you nail him.
Until then, why seek trouble?
scapaflow says:
January 18, 2015 at 11:30 am
Wasn’t suggesting for a moment that the SFA, or anyone else in football, should do anything about it at this stage (and I am not confident they will do anything about it at any stage) but that Ashley, or his placemen, should do it. If King’s call for an EGM is, in any way, inconvenient for Ashley and his plans, we should expect him to use every trick in the book to nip it in the bud. King being a convicted fraudster etc would, one would think, be the perfect reposte to his EGM call.
Allyjambo says:
January 18, 2015 at 11:55 am
True, and its possible they already are, if McMurdo Minor’s latest blog is accurate.
I meant to add, has anyone seen any evidence of king trotting off to court, seeking permission, because until he does, surely we are entitled to believe its just more of the same old bluster, bluff & posturing we have come to expect?
yourhavingalaugh says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:02 am
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Mr Houston of the sos interviewed for the above article by the daily ranger regards witherspoons looking after its customers,staff and property something that could “BACKFIRE” on them ,he doesn’t know when to shut up,after Friday nights scenes on BT Sport and before the watershed (do we still have that)then the appalling stats quoted in the article,I would imagine any human being ,sorry any normal human being would agree and add that since the game is on tenement telly it would be advisable to stay behind closed doors until a week after the “clash”,the powers that be have really no concept of what will happen .
R.I.P Scottish Football
___________________________________________________________
Shrewd business decision. Why not save on the cost of doormen, let alone damage to property, by orchestrating yourslf a boycott by the riff raff?
I expect the Wetherspoons demilitarized zones could well be thronging that night.
IMO
We are entering the build up to a LC semi which will go down in history for what happens off the field
And the SMSM are gleefully gearing up with their usual cynicism
Wetherspoons decide not to show the LC match and “may face a backlash”
Police tour pubs in Glasgow and Ayrshire where trouble has occurred in the past
We will soon be hearing about A&E units having days off cancelled and compulsory overtime to cope with an expected increase in patients
And all for a spectacle that shows the worse elements in our society parade their hatred and bigotry to a bewildered TV audience measured in millions
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Madness
In any other country, putting a permanent end to these events would have become political issues crying out for action.
But not in Scotland
This fixture eats away at the fabric of our society. We have had peace and quiet for 3 yrs and its been great. There are people walking about today who escaped injury because of the absence of these games
Well I for one am fed up with inaction
The SG should instruct the SFA that we aren’t putting up with this any longer. The bill for police and NHS costs should be rolled up and presented to Hampden. Only then will we see any concerted action by clubs to deal with this issue. If that gives them a problem they can`t solve then let them step aside for other with the backbone to grasp the nettle
Me?
I`m for banning this fixture permanently
https://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/blog/
McMurdo saying that 70 days notice is required for an EGM seeking director changes. Which would take us to the end of March. Just think what Ashley could do in that time!
Been more snow and frost in Glasgow since friday but litlle old Scotstoun arena hosting Warriors v Montpelier right now on pitch perfectly playable and looking good according to Tom English .. .
Compare and Contrast . . . 😀 😳
valentinesclown says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:26 am
==================================
The first sentence of Graham Spiers article actually sends a slight chill down me. It would have been better not to allude to any sort of supremacist position in Scottish society for Rangers, whether he is an advocate of it or not. Unless the mainstream media start treating Rangers and their fans no different from the rest of us, then it will do nothing other than build up resentment. Quite frankly, such a notion is abhorrent in this day and age. There are laws against groups of people being discriminated against because of their race, religion or gender. The media would simply not be allowed to promote a race, religion, or gender as superior to another, yet they can still allude to some sort of supremacist position in Scottish society for Rangers. Why?
Tartanwulver says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:48 am
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valentinesclown says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:26 am
How the mighty rangers have fallen article
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/753940672?-11344:801
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I thought that was a decent article by Spiers
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It is quite good as it is what the majority of the rangers fans may read and understand. He knows more and is capable of writing articles similar to the ones referred to above and which are far closer to the truth. It is good Mr Spier’s prints anything detrimental to the govan club but he plays it to safe imo. The tabloids are the ones the majority ibrox fans read (and sadly may believe in a self preservation sort glimmer of hope way) so they will never print anything that resembles the truth until it is to late to save the club (and that may not be long).
Was looking at the list of truth-tellers re oc/nc . . cosgrove spence etc . . Is it gaining some momentum ?
Spiers has backtracked once or twice with a possibly understandable “how can you be bothered to be bothered ‘ sigh . But overall I think he has shown real balls like the honourable Spency . .
and now guys like jim delahunt are feeling the intellectual embarrassment at the preposterous censorship of words like sevco . . And I suspect surely some personal anger (on their own + particularily their families behalf) not just at the perpretators of the intimidation . .but more pertinently at the LACK OF SUPPORT from their fellow ‘journos’ such as delahunts regular sidekick guidi and other purveyors of p.a.r.p. (POST APOCALYPTIC REVISIONIST PISH )
One HAS to assume there are some harsh words being exchanged between the courageous and the craven behind the scenes surely ?
The “rebellion” will eventually gain critical mass I suspect and the narrative will change. . . it may already be happening.
@jimlarkin.”Pubs have been magnets for violence on previous Old Firm match days. Nine police were attacked and injured at the Rowallan bar in Thornliebank, Glasgow, after Celtic beat Rangers 3-0 in February 2011, and a female officer suffered life-threatening injuries.
Convicted drug smuggler John Healy, 56, and son Jason, 24, were among six men charged over the violence but the case was dropped after police evidence was lost.”
Hmmm. That doesn’t look the slightest bit dodgy.
upthehoops says:
January 18, 2015 at 12:40 pm
Graham Speirs set out the path to where they are now, in a very long article. A large part harks back to the days of glory, with cities he’s visited following his favourite club; but he mustn’t have visited Manchester to watch them in the Europa Cup final, for he doesn’t mention that city!
Although he gives much coverage of the EBTs, ‘with the club having been found to have stayed within the law’, he fails to mention the DoS scheme, that was outwith the law, or that the club deliberately mis-registered players to facilitate the EBTs, something that has led to even greater detestation of, and lack of sympathy for, his club throughout Scottish football.
No such playing down of the nasty facts when covering the Whyte year, though he does use much fewer words (easier when not trying to varnish over unpleasant truths). Then it’s down to the tear jerker from the fans. Paragraph after paragraph of ‘we don’t like what’s happened to our club, it’s no fair!’
This is more a ‘sympathy for the supporters’ piece, with a hint of the reality thrown in to lend weight, than a serious attempt at explaining how they got to where they are now.
Unless he (Spiers) can write an un-sanitised version of the story, then he will remain stuck within the pack of his club’s apologist hacks.
Mr Speirs article use all of the correct one many of them in the correct order albeit among some of the aspects of the übermensch narrative accepted as fact. The comments providing the flimsiest of arguments for giving fascist salutes in Israel are nauseating. Begin ,again , again ,cleanse, purge the truth shall set you free indeed! There is something Nietzschean about the eternal recurrence of the myths they need to prove that East Coker was wrong and that some time is redeemable.
Maybe the F.A rules are “flexible” or open to “interpretation” too ?
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/are-man-city-being-dishonest/ar-AA8j7hw?ocid=mailsignoutmd
Allyjambo says:
January 18, 2015 at 1:26 pm
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upthehoops says:
January 18, 2015 at 12:40 pm
Graham Speirs set out the path to where they are now, in a very long article. A large part harks back to the days of glory, with cities he’s visited following his favourite club; but he mustn’t have visited Manchester to watch them in the Europa Cup final, for he doesn’t mention that city!
Although he gives much coverage of the EBTs, ‘with the club having been found to have stayed within the law’, he fails to mention the DoS scheme, that was outwith the law, or that the club deliberately mis-registered players to facilitate the EBTs, something that has led to even greater detestation of, and lack of sympathy for, his club throughout Scottish football.
No such playing down of the nasty facts when covering the Whyte year, though he does use much fewer words (easier when not trying to varnish over unpleasant truths). Then it’s down to the tear jerker from the fans. Paragraph after paragraph of ‘we don’t like what’s happened to our club, it’s no fair!’
This is more a ‘sympathy for the supporters’ piece, with a hint of the reality thrown in to lend weight, than a serious attempt at explaining how they got to where they are now.
Unless he (Spiers) can write an un-sanitised version of the story, then he will remain stuck within the pack of his club’s apologist hacks.
………………………………..
Well said.
What was the £250,000 fine for?
A Rule break which was 2nd to match fixing in it’s seriousness!
…and all they got was a £250,000 fine !!!!!!!!
What .penalty” did they get for breaching the SFA rules when they went outside football because they were not happy with the
“Registration embargo” which turned out not to be a punishment as they hoovered up out of contract players during the intervening period.
Spiers and his ilk have never ever accepted the club he supported – before they went bust – cheated on a grand scale.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mike-ashley-going-win-every-8468375
View from the NE media (writer is Scottish though)
What’s to stop SEA/SPL sending a private note to Mr. King, reminding him of his unsuitability regarding a Sevco directorship.
Thereby killing stone dead any false hopes and dreams?
As payday approaches at Ibrox is it safe to assume big Mike’s offer of a loan with security will have to be used?
Nell Doncaster says:
January 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm
What’s to stop SEA/SPL sending a private note to Mr. King, reminding him of his unsuitability regarding a Sevco directorship
________________________
Cowardice?
Darryl at the SFA advised me that it was a myth that there is such a thing as a “fit and proper person” test.
Allyjambo says:
January 18, 2015 at 2:28 pm
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Nell Doncaster says:
January 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm
What’s to stop SEA/SPL sending a private note to Mr. King, reminding him of his unsuitability regarding a Sevco directorship
________________________
Cowardice?
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No – as HP said earlier – 10:29pm on Jan 17th – and very convincingly it is a legal situation re. the law of the land and nothing to do with the SFA. He is disqualified for 5 years period! FPP he is not, but that’s not relevant right now.
Ron.an.Math says:
January 18, 2015 at 12:56 pm
p.a.r.p. (POST APOCALYPTIC REVISIONIST PISH ) 😆 😆 😆
neepheid says:
January 18, 2015 at 12:20 pm
https://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/blog/
McMurdo saying that 70 days notice is required for an EGM seeking director changes. Which would take us to the end of March. Just think what Ashley could do in that time!
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McMurdo is desperately trying to regain a link to the Ibrox Blazers and therefore isn’t simply a commentatot but a ‘player’ in the game and always has been.
However as to the 70 day notice his ‘source’ has advised him of – why doesn’t he simply state the AIM Rule which specifies 70 days instead of – what was it – 49 days? That’s not going to reveal his source.
Personally I can’t be bothered reading the AIM Rules because I don’t think the difference in the time period is important. This boils down to whether King can muster over 50% or not of the shareholding vote.
He either can or he’s bluffing. Either way the result will become clear sooner or later.
What’s important IMO is what Ashley does in the interim. He will make a decision whether to sit tight and fight it to the bitter end – but eventually King will win the Board if he has the upper hand in voting terms.
So the alternative is Ashley walks and does a deal to secure his retail contracts. IIRC the Rangers Retail deal was for 5 or 7 years so the 3Bears and King can wear that. The deal that King and Ashley do could make Ashley a hero so that he escapes a total boycott of Sportsdirect.
If he stays long enough to tie-up Ibrox and MP as security for a loan and if the 3B and King are thwarted in some way then how many STs will be sold for next season and how many shirts?
The Easdales and the mystery overseas investors and their onerous contracts could easily be put to the sword to appease the bloodlust which is demanding victims. I think they are dispensable to all other parties as is Somers. They are dead men walking which means their proxies would effectively be powerless at Board level.
Personally I think the SFA could leave AIM to decide whether King is a fit and proper person to be a director. Will AIM be interested? I hae ma doots not least because King has recently got a clean bill of health from the Jo’burg Stock Exchange.
So it might not be that difficult to actually pass the test and at that point the SFA can say well AIM has cleared him and using our discretion for the greater good of the game which we know needs a strong Rangers then we’ll pass him. If they don’t King goes to court and who can be sure what happens there – he might point to the criminal record of an existing Ibrox director.
And even if AIM and the SFA Rulle him unfit he will simply have a proxy director in his place. Ashley seems to be doing quite well without sitting on the Rangers Board.
However I am certain the Bears are going to be getting angrier, more worked-up and a step away from going on the rampage and I do fear for the consequences which could be unleashed by the forthcoming Celtic – Rangers tie.
If the story about protesters assaulting 2 Rangers staff is true then it is an indicator of a torrid time in Glasgow and elsewhere in Scotland after the Hampden Clash.
And after everything else how much will a share issue actually raise? And if most of it doesn’t go on clearing Ashley’s loans then the running sore remains because, in particular, Ibrox remains in hock.
I have often thought it will take another death either for Bears to make a fist of forming their own club or to allow the money-men to create a team that operates within its income.
I guess that if I were to receive an EGM request regarding directorships being proposed for folk who are disqualified for previous activities my response to that would be unparliamentary at best.
As a Grauniad/Observer reader (there’s about two of us in Essex) I read JS before logging today.
Overall, I think it is semi-decent, but having said that it is probably one of the more honest accounts of Rangers demise that has appeared in the MSM down here. Everyone I know thinks Rangers were “relegated” etc. Friends, colleagues and fellow Private Eye readers know better now.
My own comments on the Observer site could be summed up as:
1. The truth about EBT’s – starting with the DoS
2. The scandal of the Murray Empire
3. Lord Nimmo Smith
4. Bryson’s Law
5. The Five Way Agreement
6. Anyone wanting to know more – go read tsfm and scotslawthoughts
Have since been back to direct people to Ian Fraser’s outstanding article.
My over-riding impression is of the dam creaking. JS strguggling but not quite getting to the whiole truth, Weatherspoons saying no ta, Ian Fraser, Jim Delahunt.
Bawsman says:
January 18, 2015 at 3:15 pm
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Darryl at the SFA advised me that it was a myth that there is such a thing as a “fit and proper person” test.
=================
Well, it’s discretionary, which in my opinion isn’t a test at all. Except a test of who you know, and what favours you can call on.
King and SFA President Ogilvie go back a long way, In fact a cynic could point out that King was a Rangers director when Ogilvie was “awarded” an EBT loan of £95k in 2005. I wonder whether Ogilvie will enter voluntary Purdah on all matters regarding King’s status?
Maybe one of our courageous journalists could pop Regan the question? Or maybe a Celtic Supporters group could ask Peter Lawell?
Cosmic Truth says:
January 18, 2015 at 1:15 pm
Convicted drug smuggler John Healy, 56, and son Jason, 24, were among six men charged over the violence but the case was dropped after police evidence was lost.”
Hmmm. That doesn’t look the slightest bit dodgy.
=================================================
Perhaps someone borrowed a shredder from Ibrox?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Its standard stuff these days to be able to buy half + half scarves outside big games . . have a few myself . . CELTIC/ BARCA + A.C.MILAN etc . .
Just mischievously wondering if there would be much of a market for CELTIC/SEVCO scarves outside Hampden on the 1st Feb. . .
Nah ? aye mibbee yer right . 😆
At the risk of riling the entirety of the weegie persuasion, I see shades of Mr F McCann in Mr Ashley. A quiet man with a clear intent, to turn a basket case into a successful and sustainable business.
(Not that any business should ever have to make a case for being sustainable. If it can’t run without the jump leads on it, then it’s not really running at all, is it ?)
It’s also apparent that Mr Ashley’s clientele appear not to share his vision, like mr McCann’s did – eventually.
Anyway, given that is is the Sabbath, I trust I’ll be forgiven for(mis)quoting, I think, Mark 6:4
A prophet is never respected in his own time or country.
Having said that, it’s perhaps forgivable if I suggest that neither do the Ibrox faithful deserve nor recognise the promised land when they see it.
Perhaps a period of 40 years wandering the deserts will give them time to think, and might also give them cause to cleave no longer to their misguided and inappropriate beliefs, lest they be damned to the fires of hell for all eternity.
Maybe no’, right enough.
Three things I really like about TSFM, which IMO set it apart from most of the Scottish Football scene:
1) questioning minds – with the intellects and hearts of posters generally triumphing over the emotions that so often rule football supporters
2) fellowship – across fans of many clubs from many backgrounds
3) humour – which often has me rolling in the floor. By comparison, it is very noticeable that those who seek to manipulate our game, and the knuckle-draggers who seek to get their way through threats and violence.
IMO the primeval and aggressive element of the bears – and the similar elements to be found in many club’s supporters – represent the worst aspects of the old paradigm in our society, and we should stand up to such people fearlessly, as we expose their ignorance and hypocracy. Meanwhile TSFM blazes a trail to a new paradigm, where followers of all clubs can join together with respect for each other and for the concept and maintenance of sporting integrity – where fans of all clubs can enjoy the game without any of the sectarian or supremacist baggage of the past.
Scottish football needs a strong TSFM (and – with deference to Red Lichtie – a strong Arbroath).
Tincks says:
January 18, 2015 at 3:34 pm
That’s my impression too – cracks starting to appear.. seepage turning into a trickle… hopefully when it bursts it will sweep away the existing SFA, SPFL, and SMSM with it…
Bawsman says:
January 18, 2015 at 3:15 pm
………………..
Which is strange when you consider the SFA…that’s right the same organisation Darryl works for declared Craig Whyte not fit and proper to run a club…
Hasn’t it gone very quiet on the gardening front. For a man who had a quote on anything Rangers, ( and usually every other club ) our Alistair is clearly following his lawyer’s advice and keeping remarkably schtum.
Mind you if I were on £14K per week and Sellotape cost a £1 a roll, I could keep silent for 12 months. There is always a silver lining and my doctor says my blood pressure is much reduced since Alistair took a vow of silence. Now if Dave King could be told he would never pass a FPP assessment, I’m sure my haemorrhoids might take a turn for the better.
The comparisons between Ashley and McCann don’t actually stand up to scrutiny.
McCann was a Celtic fan, and emotionally invested to clear all outstanding debts, he built a stadium, energised a fan base, developed revenue streams, and turned club around. Ashley seeks to divert revenue streams, run club down through austerity, make money regardless, and has no in / out grand plan like Fergus, who reckoned, correctly, that Celtic were not maximising income, nor investing in the future, nor facing up to reality. He saw his means of profitting as being inextricably linked to the growth of the club. Ashley sees Rangers as a source of profit via bleeding revenue streams and making money from captive, distressed customers.
The differences are stark. That said, Ashley as far as I can see, represents the only real prospect for the club’s survival. Not prospering, nor growing, but merely continuing.
Heck of a discussion on here about the potential for trouble at the 1 February match. I wonder if there’s a way to lance the poison out of it.
“At the heart of every “Scottish football needs a strong Rangers” discussion is the idea that the rivalry between the DeadCo and Celtic was healthy for the game, when every person who’s ever been to one of the matches or, more importantly, been in Glasgow for the aftermath knows, in fact, that it was exactly the opposite. It’s the fixture that gave life to this awful “two heads of the same coin” crap, the fixture that gives the lunatics a totem pole to dance around, the fixture that was last played in 2012, and is never to return.”
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/draining-the-swamp/
Tincks says:
January 18, 2015 at 3:34 pm
23 0 Rate This
As a Grauniad/Observer reader (there’s about two of us in Essex) I read JS before logging today.
=============================================================================
…that’s both us us accounted for Tincks…time we did some missionary work….!
Well said James Forrest. There’s been a ton of good and interesting writing around today from various sources. Is it the days getting longer or something? Whatever it is, I’m not complaining
James Forrest says:
January 18, 2015 at 6:50 pm
19 2 Rate This
“two heads of the same coin” crap..
Medusa springs to mind … and how was she dealt with??? Where do ra peepul need to look??! Who is Hercules?? 😉
occam says:
January 18, 2015 at 8:09 pm
James Forrest says:
January 18, 2015 at 6:50 pm
Who is Hercules??
=================================
Probably the most famous Bear to come from Sheriffmuir – he liked a good carnival and a dook inra watter anaw 😆
ecobhoy says:
January 18, 2015 at 8:22 pm
1 0 Rate This
Aye. In this weather just make sure you sit on the shield when sledging down the hill!! 😎
occam says:
January 18, 2015 at 8:09 pm
1 1 Rate This
James Forrest says:
January 18, 2015 at 6:50 pm
19 2 Rate This
“two heads of the same coin” crap..
Medusa springs to mind … and how was she dealt with??? Where do ra peepul need to look??! Who is Hercules?? 😉
————–
For the avoidance of doubt, the word ‘crap’ is also taken from JF’s article with which I completely agree!
Like James Forest, I was struck by Auldheid’s eloquence this week when he likened a Rangers v Celtic game to a televised square-go. I think there is now an almost unanimous agreement within this community that Auldheid has articulated expertly. Further, I think that the TSFM consensus goes even deeper to the extent that most of us would be happy to legislate to ensure the game never took place again.
As recently as twelve months ago, there was a discussion on TSFM that some fans were looking forward to the return of that match, and that they had a right to see it.
I have no wish to start a political debate over the rights of the individual to witness this particular “sporting event”, except to say that other forms of sport less injurious to human beings have long since been banned. Dogfighting, cockfighting, bare knuckle fighting; all sports which statistically are less likely to result in harm are all banned. Playing Tig with trains is another.
A Celtic v Rangers match is absolutely guaranteed to see serious injury to members of the public as well as all manner of threats against emergency service staff in the pursuit of their vocation to deal with those injuries. It is also certain to lead to increased incidence of domestic violence, and very probably cause death somewhere along its treacherous path; and that is to say nothing of the collateral damage to businesses, neighbourhoods and people going about their normal, non-football related business.
“But we need this game” © H Keevins, G Spiers
If I had one wish for TSFM beyond that of the TRFC era it would be that we could mobilise enough support to persuade the Scottish goverment that the fixture should be banned from viewing in public. At the very least, why not play it behind closed doors for a couple of years and sell it to TV as a special, only to be viewed in private homes and not (a la Witherspoons) in public houses?
I think it is a serious enough matter to at least look at ways of legislating to minimise the potential for harm. My guess is that the only real opposition to such a move would come from Ibrox, Parkead, and the WoS MSM.
All sorts of ridicule would be heaped upon the proposers of such a move; all sorts of spin and lies and distorted statistics would be produced along with sociolgists being wheeled out to tell us how cathartic (and in fact beneficial) the whole process is. The infingement of basic rights would be flung in their faces, and the loss of revenue to the Scottish game would also be quantified in frightening terms. Armageddon all over again in fact.
I wonder what Mark Scott’s family think of his right to grow into the man he would have been, or what price they would pay to have that life back? And Mark Scott is not the only one.
They tell us that sectarianism is a societal problem, and that Blue on Green warfare is a consequence of that. But I think that 200 years down the line it’s time we started to ask ourselves if the egg has turned into the chicken. In the couple of years since the last televised square-go, what has been the trend in attacks on hospital staff, domestic violence and casual drunken violence during and after football matches? And what does that tell us about society’s shortcomings? The real societal problem is greed, the love of money and the desperate rush to acquisition – no matter who gets trampled in the stampede.
It’s not enough to say that most people get harmless enjoyment from it: far too many are victims of it. Far too many.
I have just read James Forrest’s blog and it is awesome. The only way to take the heat out of the ‘would be hatefest’ is to have a carnival atmosphere. Floppy hats compulsory 🙂
BTW my favoured option would be to have it in a ground empty of fans and televised later but that aint gonna happen.
I’m with you Jean 100% but not in a million years 🙁 my lot will be indoors. Not taking any chances 😕
Brenda says:
January 18, 2015 at 9:48 pm
________________________________________
Thanks Brenda. Me and mine too.
Re the Spiers article today. He manages to make no mention of the fact that certain directors also received “payment” by way of EBT’s. Not to mention a certain former manager of the club who received a payment many years after leaving the clubs employment.
ecobhoy says:
January 18, 2015 at 3:24 pm
The problem with King ruling via proxies, is that he is not Mike Ashley.
King believes that he should be sitting at the head of the table in the Blue Room, by some form of divine right, in that sense, he is the biggest Jacobite of them all
His ego would never allow him to work through proxies, he’d be unable to keep his mouth shut for 5 minutes. Forget shadow director, this would be a frustrated Banquo’s Ghost, permanently mouthing off at the board, the SFA, SPFL, and God knows who else.
It would be pure comedy gold
O, treachery! Fly, good Fleance, fly, fly, fly!
Thou mayst revenge. O slave!
We were attracted to RTC/TSFM initially because of the threat to ‘sporting integrity’.
With the imminent semi with TRFC it is the reputation of the sport which is at further risk – and nevermind the real risk to public safety.
But a question for the legal eagles…
With Weatherspoons having very publicly declared their Glasgow pubs will not show the game and there will be extra staff – in order to avoid trouble…
Will there be pressure on other chains/pubs to do likewise?
If a patron is injured whilst the game is being shown – for example – would the lawyers be queuing up to sue the pub owners ?
The pubs can’t plead ignorance of the risk to patrons – and especially after Weatherspoons’ early decision.
Been trudging through SPFL documentation looking for a bit of info and my eyes are starting to crust over as a result.
From The Rules of the Scottish Professional Football League, dated 1 January 2015:
What I want to know is when the league season officially ends. Is it before or after the playoffs?
The reason I ask is: What happens if a member club suffers/engineers an insolvency event while the play offs are ongoing?
Would we start them again if league placings were affected or pretend it never happened?
scapaflow says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:07 pm
It would be pure comedy gold
O, treachery! Fly, good Fleance, fly, fly, fly!
Thou mayst revenge. O slave!
===================================================================
Scapa…and here was me thinking that John Clark(e) was the only contributor allowed to quote the Bard…(maybe that should be ” barred”!)
…”et tu Brute?”…or as in my school…”etcha brute”!)
scapaflow says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:07 pm
11 2 Rate This
ecobhoy says:
January 18, 2015 at 3:24 pm
The problem with King ruling via proxies, is that he is not Mike Ashley.
King believes that he should be sitting at the head of the table in the Blue Room, by some form of divine right, in that sense, he is the biggest Jacobite of them all
His ego would never allow him to work through proxies, he’d be unable to keep his mouth shut for 5 minutes. Forget shadow director, this would be a frustrated Banquo’s Ghost, permanently mouthing off at the board, the SFA, SPFL, and God knows who else.
It would be pure comedy gold
O, treachery! Fly, good Fleance, fly, fly, fly!
Thou mayst revenge. O slave!
————–
To borrow from the Bard (if not his Lodge)
Do we have a candidate for ‘sleakit’??
Barcabhoy says:
January 18, 2015 at 4:43 am
“Excellent article by Ian Fraser in todays Sunday Herald. There are many questions to be asked of and by Politicians .”
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That’s just over £10k per acre. Agricultural land, which could be in the middle of nowhere with zero development opportunity, was coming in at £7.3K per acre in October last year.
Not only did Sir David Mirage get to squander £600m of what became taxpayers money, he was given a bonus for doing so.
What, I wonder, did he deliver to the UK state to justify his knighthood?
essexbeancounter says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:34 pm
“Who will rid me, of this troublesome Cockney?”
“Luke Edwards @LukeEdwardsTele 1 hr1 hour ago
Just a warning but someone told me 2day Ashley will give up on Rangers project. Doesn’t bode well for #nufc exit, although might be wrong”
“Luke Edwards @LukeEdwardsTele 46 mins46 minutes ago
@toontoon999 change it depending on information given, yes. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a ploy, though. Spread fear no money coming”
Edwards is the Telegraph’s North East of England sports writer
scapaflow says:
January 18, 2015 at 11:06 pm
3 0 Rate This
essexbeancounter says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:34 pm
“Who will rid me, of this troublesome Cockney?”
=============================================================
Scapa…I may have lived in SE Englandshire for many moons, but Cockney is the last adjective to describe me or my accent, which is still pure Glasgow (north!), granted with the rough edges smoothed off, but just a bit! 🙄
Big Pink says:
January 18, 2015 at 8:53 pm
“… all sorts of spin and lies and distorted statistics would be produced along with sociolgists being wheeled out to tell us how cathartic (and in fact beneficial) the whole process is.”
————————————-
I can’t disagree with the general sentiment that the upcoming new old firm game reintroduces a problem that would be better done without. However I think we need to be realistic.
Rangers have undergone the consequences of their financial mismanagement and though the sanctions should have been more onerous, you cannot deny a football club the right to play football: However sensible the arguments might be in favour of such a strategy. The criticism over the preferential treatment given to Rangers will continue and may gain traction but we are where we are.
Since the game is scheduled to take place then I think the resulting consequences need to be foreshadowed. I have little doubt that Celtic supporters will attend in droves, though any kind of limited boycott would send out a keen message. The vast majority of supporters are insulated from the detailed machinations of the shenanigans and should not be blamed necessarily for falling back on familiar traditions.
What can be assured is that the Celtic supporters will mock their rivals mercilessly. Perhaps if the governing bodies had felt capable of implementing their rules in a consistent manner such mockery could have been deflated to some extent. However I think there will be enough knowledge among them to foster a feeling of discontent that puts an edge on their vehemence.
Rangers supporters, having been fed a narrative of victim-hood are not going to like this one bit. It might be hoped that supporters all round could put a lid on their aggression and perhaps fall into heated debate about how each other feel about circumstances. Although I’m sure this will occur there will be just as many that are simply unwilling to see the viewpoint of the other side.
The cultural backdrop provides the incendiary material that could easily catch alight on such occasions. This culture has been fostered over decades and TSFM can only make small (though hopefully important) inroads into such a mindset.
Dissembling that cultural backdrop will take a protracted period of time but as Graham Spiers article testifies, having your football club elevated to the status of national institution can have terrible downsides every bit as precarious as the upsides. This culture has been fed over the long term by the media. They bear a significant responsibility for recasting cultural outlooks but I am far from convinced that they will see this as part of their remit. It just isn’t a sufficiently macho stance.
A bit like Rab C’s brother!http://youtu.be/NOLoNp8j_XM
Essexbeancounter
Was actually aimed at King re Ashley, but never mind
OT
However bad things get in Essex or even Glasgow, thy will not be as cringe making as Edinburgh. We now have a cat cafe, staffed by 10 moggies. Sad sacks can enter this establishment and for £6, pet one of the pussys for an hour.
I’m waiting on a splash in the Evening News, “Police Scotland raid cat house!”
Castofthousands says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:59 pm
9 1 Rate This
Barcabhoy says:
January 18, 2015 at 4:43 am
“Excellent article by Ian Fraser in todays Sunday Herald. There are many questions to be asked of and by Politicians .”
————————————–
“Lloyds let Murray and his family, through Murray Capital, buy Murray Estates, which owns about 1200 acres of prime development sites across Scotland’s central belt for just £13.9m.
That’s just over £10k per acre. Agricultural land, which could be in the middle of nowhere with zero development opportunity, was coming in at £7.3K per acre in October last year.
Not only did Sir David Mirage get to squander £600m of what became taxpayers money, he was given a bonus for doing so.
What, I wonder, did he deliver to the UK state to justify his knighthood?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
He bought a Scottish institution with the Banks money, won 9 in a row with the Banks money, cheated Hector using the Banks money, Salted away his fortune and liquidated his businesses using the Banks money
,,,,,,,,,,,,
In a word
He cheated the banks out of multiple knighthoods
Kicker Conspiracy says:
January 18, 2015 at 10:30 pm
What I want to know is when the league season officially ends. Is it before or after the playoffs?
The reason I ask is: What happens if a member club suffers/engineers an insolvency event while the play offs are ongoing?
Would we start them again if league placings were affected or pretend it never happened?
—————————————————————-
Season is defined as ” the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;”
That suggests to me that the season ends before the play-off matches start. I think there is an anomaly in that the divisions complete on different dates, so some play-off games will be played whilst the season is still technically ongoing. I think the rules are poorly worded, and perhaps the use of “division” might be appropriate.
The inference is that should a club suffer an insolvency event after match 36, but before the first play-off games, they would not suffer a points penalty until the next season.
(I’ve posted on this before, I hope I reached the same conclusion last time 😀
Big Pink says:
January 18, 2015 at 8:53 pm
……………………
I agree with all you say BP and would add…Police Scotland have a duty to step into this upcoming event that is fast becoming a Roman Colosseum spectacular in terms of the violence expected…knowing the possible volatility that is simmering…the police should have the authority to limit the number of fans permitted to attend…if only to ensure the Police have the man power to deal with any after match reaction to the result…especially if the score line is significantly one sided..
Scapa – oh dear, this “pussy parlour” is going to lead to some confused situations on a drunken Edinburgh Saturday night.
It’s not going to have a happy ending!
English Football needs a strong Black Cats.
redlichtie says:
January 19, 2015 at 12:13 am
Fortunately its not located in the West Port…
I’ll get ma Whiskas
Slightly OT but don’t you wish those that were threatened with legal action had the same attitude as Tom Pride
https://tompride.wordpress.com/thinking-of-suing-me-read-this/
Have a read you will surely laugh.
I had been lead to this site because the BBC have admitted that the Incorrect Report they did on Alex Salmond during the YES/NO wasn’t intentional ! who says the BBC are impartial, not on TSFM that’s fir sure
Castofthousands says:
January 18, 2015 at 11:51 pm
Big Pink says:
January 18, 2015 at 8:53 pm
“… all sorts of spin and lies and distorted statistics would be produced along with sociolgists being wheeled out to tell us how cathartic (and in fact beneficial) the whole process is.”
————————————-
I can’t disagree with the general sentiment that the upcoming new old firm game reintroduces a problem that would be better done without. However I think we need to be realistic.
Rangers have undergone the consequences of their financial mismanagement and though the sanctions should have been more onerous, you cannot deny a football club the right to play football:
____________________________________________________________
That isn’t what I suggested CoT. My suggestion was that any game between Celtic and Rangers should be played without a live audience.
Community singing and other atmos could be added later 🙂