From the TSFM Manifesto 🙂
A spectre is haunting Scottish Football — the spectre of Sporting Integrity. All the powers of the old firms have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Billy and Dan, Blazer and Cassock, Record and Sun, Balance Sheet and P&L.
Where is the football fan in opposition to these that has not been decried as a “sporting integrity bampot” by his opponents in power?Two things result from this fact:
I. Sporting Integrity is already widely acknowledged to be itself a power for good.
II. It is high time that Lovers of Sport should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Sporting Integrity with a manifesto of fair play.
To this end, Lovers of Sport of various partisanship have assembled on TSFM and sketched their manifesto, to be published on tsfm.scot.
Those who love sport though are challenged not just by the taunts of the monosyllabic automatons in the MSM, but by the owners of our football clubs who have displayed an almost total disregard to our wish to have a fair competition played out in the spirit of friendly rivalry. In fact the clubs, who speak those fine words, are not nearly as outraged as we are by the damage done to the integrity of the sport in the past few years .
In fact the term Sporting Integrity has become, since the latter stages of the Rangers era, a term of abuse; a mocking soubriquet attached to those who want sport to be just that – sport.
Sporting integrity now lives in the same media pigeon-hole as words like Islam, left-wing, militant, Muslim – and a host of others; words which are threats to the established order now set up as in-jokes, in order to reduce the effectiveness of the idea.
In fact, a new terminology has evolved in the reporting of football by both club officials and The Succulent Lamb Chapel alike;
“.. Sporting Integrity but …”.
For example
“We all want sporting integrity, but finance is more important”
Says who exactly?
Stated in such a matter of fact way that the obvious question is headed off at the pass, it is sometimes difficult to re-frame the discussion – perhaps because crayon is so hard to erase?
This is the backdrop to The Scottish Football Monitor and the world in which we live. Often the levels of scrutiny employed by our contributors are far in excess of any scrutiny employed by the MSM. Indeed our ideas and theories are regularly plagiarised by those very same lazy journalists who lurk here, and cherry-pick material to suit their own agendas; regularly claiming exclusives for stories that TSFM and RTC before us had placed in the public domain weeks earlier.
This was going to lead into a discourse about the love of money versus the love of sport – of how the sacred cows of acquisitiveness, gate- retention and turnstile spinning is far more important to the heads of our football clubs (the Billys, Dans and Blazers of the intro) than maintaining the traditions of our sport.
However events of Friday 14th November have given me cause to leave that for another day. The biggest squirrel of all in this sorry saga has always been the sleight of hand employed instil a siege mentality in the Rangers fans. The press have time and again assisted people (with no love of football in general or Rangers in particular) to enrich themselves – legally or otherwise – and feed on the loyalty of Rangers fans.
A matter for Rangers fans may also be the identity of some of those who had their trust, but who also assisted the Whytes and Greens by their public statements of support.
Our contention has been that rules have been bent twisted or broken to accommodate those people, the real enemies of the Rangers fans – and fans everywhere.
Through our collective research and group-analysis of events, we have also wondered out loud about the legality of many aspects of the operating style of some of the main players in the affair. That suspicion has been shared most notably by Mark Daly and Alex Thompson, but crucially now appears to be shared by Law Enforcement.
I confess I am fed up with the self-styled “bampot” epithet. For the avoidance of doubt, the “bampots” in this affair are those who have greater resources than us, and access to the truth, but who have lacked either the will or the courage or the imagination to follow it through.
We are anything but bampots. Rather, we have demonstrated that the wisdom of the crowd is more effective by far than any remnants of wisdom in the press.
I have no doubt that the police investigation into this matter is proceeding in spite of great opposition in the MSM and the Scottish Football Authorities – all of whom conspired to expose Rangers to the custodianship of those for whom football is a foreign language.
I have no doubt that the constant exposition of wrong-doing on this blog, in particular the questions we have constantly raised, and anomalies we have pointed out, has assisted and enabled the law enforcement agencies in this process.
If we are to be consistent in this, our enabling of the authorities, we MUST show restraint at all times as this process is followed through. People who are charged with a crime deserve to be given a fair trial in the absence of rumour or innuendo. We must also, if we are to continue as the spectre which haunts the avaricious – and the real bampots – be seen to be better than they, and give them no cause to accuse us of irresponsibility.
This affair has now evolved way beyond one club gaining unfair advantage over others. For all the understandable Schadenfreude of many among us, the real enemy is not Rangers, it is about those who enabled and continue to enable the farce at Ibrox.
This is now about systematic cheating at the heart of the Scottish game (in the name of cash and in spite of lip service to sporting integrity), and how the greed of a bunch of ethically challenged officials allowed another group of ethically challenged businessmen free rein to enrich themselves at the expense of the fans.
Whether laws were broken or not, the players at Rangers have come and gone and are variables, but the malignant constant at the SFA and SPFL are still there. Last night, even after the news that four men had been arrested in connection with the takeover at Ibrox in 2011, they were gathered together at Celtic Park with their Irish counterparts, tucking into succulent lamb (perhaps) and fine wines, doing some back slapping, making jokes about the vulgarities of their fans, bragging about the ST money they have banked.
The revolution won’t be over until they are gone, and if they remain, it is Scottish Football that will be over.
neepheid says:
November 20, 2014 at 4:53 pm
I think this holding company idea flies in the face of the intent of Article 12, which is designed to cover the various arrangements throughout Europe that might constitute a football club.
For me whoever operates the football club is fully responsible for it and that is the licence applicant that UEFA Art 12 covers.
A metal merchant did not apply for a UEFA Licence for RFC but when a club with a Celtic type arrangement applies, whoever is applying is a football business or making their income through football related activities.
I would be surprised if UEFA do not eventually have to clarify.
Further to the recent events regarding court appearances by a number of parties in the 2011 transactions involving ownership of Rangers 2012 plc I decided, as a reminder, to look at Mark Daly’s “Men who sold the jerseys documentary” again on YouTube. When it was shown originally I remember the spiel about Grier and an alleged conflict of interest etc. etc. To be honest I didn’t really listen to that bit of the programme closely as I didn’t really care about that bit of the story – I was more interested in Daly’s story about the EBT’s.
Having watched the programme again after 2 ½ years I am even more puzzled. If anyone can help answer these questions I’d be grateful:
1. If Daly had such a treasure trove of evidence about the alleged fraudulent dealings – and he pretty much laid it all out in the open in the programme – then why has it taken 2 ½ years for the police to make arrests?
2. Why did Graeme Souness receive 30K from an EBT years after he finished his employment at the club? Daly mentions this in the same sentence as Tugay’s transfer from Rangers to Blackburn. Has any further investigation taken place into this?
It’s well worth having another look at the programme as a reminder.
Also, follow the link to watch the Newsnight Special from the day the CVA was rejected – allowed myself a chuckle at those who disagreed with Jim Spence on the sequence of events in store for the Newco!
scapaflow says:
November 20, 2014 at 1:17 pm
21 0 Rate This
Essexbeancounter
We should borrow a page or two from the Icelandic play book:
“RT @RT_com 45m45 minutes ago
Former head of Iceland’s Landsbanki jailed 12 months for role in 2008 crash http://on.rt.com/2exu4e “
================================================================
…well that is a first…WHUFC fans in particular will de delighted!
Re King v Easdale, we may never know who really said what but if DK’s version is correct I think we can see where he went wrong….
“After discussion with Paul and George, I confirmed by email to Sandy that we had no immediate intention to remove him or his brother from board involvement at Rangers.”
Ah yes…no immediate intention….that’ll have reassured him 🙄
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/arrest-warrant-issued-former-glasgow-4664355
Somehow Mirror UK gets a quote from Ticketus, SMSM?
Poor old CW – Warrants both sides of the Border – and only one to have not made a cent
Go Figure
Crazy Legal System it seems to me
But let’s see if he does come back – within 12 months…………….
Whoever is telling the truth is irrelevant imo. When it comes to doing a deal that suits everyone, people will often bury the hatchet. Having a wee dig via a PR lackey on either side is part of the game, but it is now getting personal and way beyond the kiss-and-make-up horizon.
That tells me that King has given up all hope of some kind of rapprochement with the board and that his plan for the future – if he in fact has one – is to deliberately destabilise the current club and spin it is being of the cruel-to-be-kind variety.
Of course Jack won’t be standing around doing nothing. Now that King has declared himself an enemy, there may yet be blood on the walls, as it has now become vital for the continued existence of the club that King is discredited.
The football really has become the sideshow yet again.
The latest from McMurdo. Of interest insofar as he describes someone else’s output as “ramblings”. Irony bypass, or what?
jimlarkin says:
November 20, 2014 at 10:16 am
“Was it not “Wavetower” or “The Rangers Group”
Which was the Operating Company (Holding Company) for
Rangers Football Club ltd ???
( and this company is still in existance?)”
———————————–
As Highfibre states above, Wavetower changed its name to The Rangers FC Group Limited (on 12 May 2011 according to Companycheck).
The link here indicates that there have been two attempts to strike this company off, both opposed, and a third attempt is lately under way. So I suppose the holding company is indeed still in existence though for how much longer I wouldn’t be able to speculate.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07380537/THE-RANGERS-FC-GROUP-LIMITED/companies-house-docs#other-documents
Sweet Dreams are Made of This
Not long ago I commented that the accumulated headlines on the BBC Rangers page suggested some careful media management – with obvious squirrels of hope and shameless whataboutery squeezing out more unpleasant factual news. One can only assume that the PR operatives have not been getting paid, because the current headlines seem to lack management and be designed as the sweetest of sweet dreams for those who thought those scamps Murray, Whyte, Green, Regan, Doncaster and Ogilvie would get away Scot free with the The Rangers Project. And to any previously unaware/unquestioning bear, these headlines must seem like the eighth circle of Dante’s inferno (fraud) to be followed only by the ninth and final circle – treachery – amongst spivs and fine football administrators.
• Second arrest warrant for Whyte
• King reveals Easdale Rangers concern
• Kennedy loan aimed to ‘protect’ Ibrox
• Denmark striker Lovenkrands retires
• Rangers cut staff to combat costs
• Angry King in plea to Rangers fans
• Rangers liquidators win lawyer claim
• Fraud charges over sale of Rangers
• Rangers 1-1 Alloa Athletic
• Craig Whyte arrest warrant issued
• Burton ‘sorry’ over Rangers T-shirt
• Rangers’ Macleod released by Scots
• Dundee Utd offer £100,000 for Telfer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers
From McM’s Blog
Oops! 🙂
Not that complicated at all Bill
mcfc says:
November 20, 2014 at 8:30 pm
Looks like the balloons have already bust
But they haven`t got round to telling Bears yet
And still a deafening silence from the SFA.
“And still a deafening silence from the SFA.”
Come on Stewart, you know you want to, do your bit for International Fraud Awareness Week
Big Pink says:
November 20, 2014 at 8:38 pm
3 0 Rate This
From McM’s Blog
There are also question marks over King’s status as a creditor to oldco and the possibility that he could have saved the club by accepting a CVA. It is quite complicated stuff and I might blog about it some time in the future.
Oops! 🙂
Not that complicated at all Bill
——————
He’ll be waiting for more to be posted on here. So in the spirit of goodwill to all , I’ll help him out.
1 King invests in Murray Sports
2 At no time whilst Rangers plc are alive does King make public any claims of being deceived or institute any legal action for deception. That’s nothing over a 12 year period
3 When administrator appointed King jumps in with claims of a claim
4 His claim must be of the nature of fraudulent deception by Murray
5 As there is no evidence in over 2 years of a court hearing , then 2 possibilities exist
A) he made the claim to be included with other unsecured creditors to Duff & Phelps
B) he’s lying and made no such claim to enable him to be included in the creditors list
6 if A) then Duff & Phelps should have included his claim in the “To be confirmed ” category. As they did with Whyte’s RFC Group claim
If B) more evidence of posturing and tyre kicking
7 If A) why did he not publicly complain about D&P excluding his claim .
8 What has enabled BDO to include his claim. BDO have placed a quantum against this , so it’s not in the TBC category.
Logically it’s either
A) new information has to to light
Or
B) King did not want to be on the creditors voting list at CVA time.
The question therefore is legitimately posed .
Did King deliberately avoid the opportunity to save Rangers at the CVA vote ?
oddjob says:
November 20, 2014 at 8:51 pm
And still a deafening silence from the SFA.
SFA a useless waste of resources focused on keeping well-paid / pensions bottoms on seats
In summary – Useless
But Roddy inferred end of this week for SFA action
So we`ll see
twopanda says:
November 20, 2014 at 7:57 pm
I’m with you on the Craig Whyte issue, MTP. This guy (no saint himself, of course) has been the whipping boy throughout this long saga. I think we will find out what he’s really made of very soon. I’m fairly sure that his library of emails and audio clips will be a game changer. He didn’t record all that stuff not to use it, in my opinion.
twopanda says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:11 pm
TP it wwuld be nice to think that they will finally do the right thing. The SFA & the league bodies bear, (no pun intended), a heavy responsibility, since without their enabling actions, none of this would have been possible
Barcabhoy says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:10 pm
The question therefore is legitimately posed .
Did King deliberately avoid the opportunity to save Rangers at the CVA vote ?
======================
I think the article posted by twopanda makes King’s views on the CVA perfectly clear. He wanted liquidation. Whether he in fact voted with HMRC, I just couldn’t say.
An aside to the state aid stuff, the pzj character seems to have had a bit of trolling going on against the @scotzine editor.
You can say one thing about this whole Sevco story, it’s revealing those at the heart of darkness among the ‘support’.
I think there is a distinction though, which is that king saw liquidation as a given, a non negotiable as it were. As long as D&P were using the Provisional BTC debt giving HMRC the controlling stake that was always the case.
Strikes me he was lining himself up as the good guy to pick up the pieces, just not with his money.
Danish Pastry says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:30 pm
It’s something I really struggle to understand, all this time & effort, into tinfoil hat attempts to damage other clubs & supporters, which could have been used to ferret out what’s been happening closer to home. Bizarre
Tell you something guys – Craigie in Court is going to be one hot ticket.
Planning my hols already!
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
I know that this saga has taught us that nothing should be taken for granted but surely some kind of insolvency event can’t be too many months away.
The probability too is that it will be Mike Ashley pulling the plug in some fashion.
In the hope that CG doesn’t already have this tucked away in his chateau can I claim coyright on the headline “Rangers MASHed”.
SMSM use requires a £100 donation to TSFM!
Scottish Football needs strong Hearts.
scapaflow says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:35 pm
4 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:30 pm
It’s something I really struggle to understand, all this time & effort, into tinfoil hat attempts to damage other clubs & supporters, which could have been used to ferret out what’s been happening closer to home. Bizarre
———-
On the face of it, an entirely non-football agenda from people with no real interest in sport. Realp-life version of ‘The Blue Meanies’.
mcfc says:
November 20, 2014 at 8:30 pm
11 0 Rate This
Sweet Dreams are Made of This
Not long ago I commented that the accumulated headlines on the “BBC Rangers page” (my edit!)
============================================================================
…and all this from the public “national” broadcaster…o me miserum, what chance the others!
redlichtie says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:58 pm
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SMSM use requires a £100 donation to TSFM!
====================================================================
There was a time Fleet Street hacks could do so on expenses (I know, I paid them!)…but one day the beancounters moved in…!
neepheid says: November 20, 2014 at 9:21 pm
Barcabhoy says: November 20, 2014 at 9:10 pm
========================
Dave King has a pathological dislike of the taxman, so there was never any chance of him being involved in a CVA which would leave the contingent tax liability from HMRC for the EBT case still hanging round the neck of the club.
That would explain why he would favour a Liquidation sale. However, timing and circumstances were against him with his own tax case that he was never in a position to really get behind an alternative Blue Knights bid to gazump Charlie’s Angels. Perhaps he hoped to get involved at a later stage once he had cleared the SARS hurdle.
Just a wee aside.
Much talk n SSB tonight about The Hearts v T’Rangers game and what it would mean for Ally if the Jambos went nine clear.
Suddenly it was all talk of would promotion being achieved by play-off be acceptable.
One Bear, not an Ally fan, called in pointing out the aim was to gain promotion by winning the Championship.
Jim Delanhunt suggested that key aim might not be binding now that its author Graham Wallace was gone.
Despite that being the aim of ‘The Club’ some folks don’t half like changing the rules and principles to suit every occasion!!!!!
neepheid says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:21 pm
6 0 Rate This
Barcabhoy says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:10 pm
The question therefore is legitimately posed .
Did King deliberately avoid the opportunity to save Rangers at the CVA vote ?
======================
I think the article posted by twopanda makes King’s views on the CVA perfectly clear. He wanted liquidation. Whether he in fact voted with HMRC, I just couldn’t say.
twopanda says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:30 am
3 3 Rate This
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427
————-
My point is that he didn’t have a vote in the CVA . He wasn’t on the creditors list at the time.
Its very convenient not to be able to vote, thereby avoiding the stigma of being the individual who consigned Rangers to liquidation.
Telling people to vote against , when you already know HMRC will vote it down and know they will be blamed, was easy for King.
What he could have done is pushed to have his claim included , and then voted to save the club . Did he ? Or did it suit him not to have a vote , as he could then continue the pretence of being the saviour in waiting .
He either put his own interests ahead of Rangers interests or he didn’t ? I think there’s enough evidence out there about his lack of action to come to a pretty solid comclusion .
easyJambo says:
November 20, 2014 at 10:06 pm
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neepheid says: November 20, 2014 at 9:21 pm
Barcabhoy says: November 20, 2014 at 9:10 pm
========================
Dave King has a pathological dislike of the taxman, so there was never any chance of him being involved in a CVA which would leave the contingent tax liability from HMRC for the EBT case still hanging round the neck of the club.
That would explain why he would favour a Liquidation sale. However, timing and circumstances were against him with his own tax case that he was never in a position to really get behind an alternative Blue Knights bid to gazump Charlie’s Angels. Perhaps he hoped to get involved at a later stage once he had cleared the SARS hurdle.
—————–
Not sure he would get the comfort he’s looking for in a liquidation.
This is what HMRC stated when rejecting the CVA and why.
” An HMRC spokesman said: “A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers, by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company’s financial affairs in recent years. A CVA would restrict the scope of such action.”
Now remember that Craig Whyte wasn’t even in charge for 1 year. So HMRC’s statement about “recent years” would suggest that this was aimed at going after those who predated Whyte as well. Those responsible legally are Directors.
Many fail to understand the duties and obligations that come with the role. Ignorance is no defence, and neither is absence. The HMRC statement is likely to be a significant factor in the rush of “not my fault” statements seen from previous Directors .
scapaflow says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:17 pm
9 0 Rate This
twopanda says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:11 pm
TP it wwuld be nice to think that they will finally do the right thing. The SFA & the league bodies bear, (no pun intended), a heavy responsibility, since without their enabling actions, none of this would have been possible
=============================================================
Scapa, may I in my simplistic manner suggest that this omnishambles would never have occurred if:
1) RFC(IL) had no “rightful place” concept amongst followers
2) David Murray did not have such an massive ego
3) Celtic FC had not won the European Cup in 1967
4) BoS via Masterton, had not been allowed to swamp Scottish football with loans which could never be realistically repaid
5) The SMSM had the cojones to say “haud the bus mate this disnae work” to the unsecured borrowings of MIH and RFC at the time
6) The UK tax system had not allowed the concept of “offshore” tax planning via Employee Benefit Trusts
7) Craig Whyte had not come along as a front man and “duped” David Murray
8) Charles Green had stayed in Yorkshire and spared us the laughs
Points number 9) to 1,457)… I shall leave to my more erudite fellow bloggers, but me, I am “lovin’ it”….!
As PMG has intimated in his blog…only another ten years to run…yipee!
STV report on Scotland v England, live from the Bristol Bar.
http://t.co/2yBTZWXnLe
redlichtie says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:58 pm
‘..I know that this saga has taught us that nothing should be taken for granted but surely some kind of insolvency event can’t be too many months away.’
———-
I don’t doubt it.
But I also don’t doubt that our Football Authorities are already drawing up plans to accommodate ANY eventuality- administration, liquidation, new entities set up by convicted fraudsters, past jail-birds, sleazy Interpol-most-wanted crooks- to make sure that some kind of crooked sods will be permitted to keep a football team playing at Ibrox.
The cheating SDM, the convicted South African criminal, the man who has great influence over two football clubs, all of them are, like the wee brown stuff we pick up on our shoes, of significance only to themselves in the turgidly obscene lie-fest that envelops a two-year old football club in an absolute shambles.
Of much, much greater significance to us all is the knowledge that our Football Authorities have in the past demonstrated that they are of the SAME STAMP as the squabbling, fighting directors and would-be directors and knights and saviours and thoroughly unsavoury characters actually in charge of TRFC/RIFCplc , or previously in charge of RIFCplc, or those who wish ( on the cheap) to be in charge of RIFCplc.
That is, they are men of no principle, they have once already betrayed Scottish Football instead of protecting it, just as SDM and every one in ‘Rangers’ has betrayed the supporters of that once ( perhaps justifiably) proud club.
And in betraying Scottish Football, they have demonstrated a contempt for truth, and sport, and Sporting Integrity-and for us all.
And having done this, they have the gall to issue utterly hypocritical garbage about ‘Fair Play’ and the need to deal with FIFA corruption.
What’s happening currently at RIFCplc, the bun-fights, the re-emergence of the cheating SDM, the anxieties of Laxey Partners, the nonsense of ‘appeal’ against the EC decision on the ‘landsales’ must not divert us from the fact that our Football Authorities are not to be trusted.
Let’s keep a sharp eye on them-and on our own club directors etc.
Two warrànts two jurisdictions. Unlikely CW will be budged from Monaco sans guaranteed outcome.
If anywhere place your bets as to which (if either) he responds to?
On a separate note just what has happened to Paul Baxendale Walker? Any news?
essexbeancounter says:
November 20, 2014 at 10:25 pm
All that is true, but the SFA & the League bodies had the chance to call a halt. Instead…..
Barcabhoy says:
November 20, 2014 at 10:24 pm
‘.” An HMRC spokesman said: “A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers..’
———-
I wasn’t in a particularly good mood,Barcabhoy, but your reference to that feckin HMRC statement re-awakens the anger I felt at the stupidity of the observation ( which I think was made in that statement) that ‘Rangers will continue to be able to play at Ibrox’ ( or words to that effect).
Those words ( or the expression of that sentiment) were wholly inappropriate and absolutely irrelevant in the context, and betrayed ( it seemed to me) an undue desire to mollify and conciliate that suggested that the ‘phoenix’ regulations were of no consequence.
I can say that that raised some doubts in my mind as to HMRC’s approach. (Which, to be entirely honest, were not at all dispelled by the poor performance of HMRC either at the First Tier or at the Appeal before Lord D)
Barcabhoy says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:10 pm
“He’ll be waiting for more to be posted on here. So in the spirit of goodwill to all , I’ll help him out.”
———————————–
Perhaps I can throw him off the scent with some spurious information that will add nothing to the discussion.
I was looking back at some of the old RTC blogs and came across a comment that might be relevant :
“JPaul says:
08/07/2011 at 7:36 pm
…Isn’t it 91% though. I thought Wavetower had 85% and Dave King 6%…”
I can’t get access to the full discussion to see the context of this conversation so this could be entirely spurious information. Alternately it might be entirely explicable and I’m not capable of making the connection.
I just thought that as I’d happened to have stumbled across it quite by chance I would post it up.
Re the SFA , last time round they only had one set of gentlemen to deal with ; this time around , who do they talk to out of the various factions , guessing it is the Chairman / men ……… But as no-one knows what is going on, other than Rangers pleading for league reconstruction and pleading for only 15 point penalty ……
There is less cash around than just prior to the last failure , so it will need a swift admin , hope the experienced players take a massive cut in wages , pray for 15 points deduction and stumble through to the playoffs by selling off the ground.
FUBAR hardly covers it.
I’d expect them to get to the SPL by the preferbial skin of their of teeth, with all the family silver sold off, MP, Ibrox, and player worth anything and still with Ally at the helm.
Administration or liquidation , it doesn’t matter , the SFA will just look out the ” for the good of the game card” , the key question facing the SFA when admin comes is it 15 or 25? If the liquidation comes then is it oblivion or back to Div 3 or stay in the championship?
I am half expecting the SFA to take Rangers license away from the current Spivs and let former Rangers directors , Walter step forward run a club out of Hampden , if there is another liquidation. Fanciful, but what can you rule out?
Castofthousands says: November 20, 2014 at 11:11 pm
——————
Pre Whyte numbers
MIH Group 92,842,388 85.34%
Metlika (Dave King) 5,797,026 5.33%
Whyte bought the MIH holding.
twopanda says:
November 20, 2014 at 11:13 pm
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Barcabhoy says:
November 20, 2014 at 10:09 pm
Font of all wisdom you are chum
Look up TU`s Narcissism
While you`re at it try `objective`
—————
I very rarely understand anything you post, and this latest effort isn’t an exception.
TP. In all honesty, if Dave King’s the answer, there may be something wrong with the question.
That said, the only people who can decide what sort of club Rangers MkIII could/would/should be are Rangers fans.
Hopefully, if Rangers MkII does go down the pan, the fans will be able to get it together enough to be able to have some influence, but, its really up to them.
twopanda says:
November 20, 2014 at 11:13 pm
‘.Font of all wisdom you are chum
Look up TU`s Narcissism
While you`re at it try `objective`’
—–
With the best will in the world,twopanda, I have to say as respectfully as I can, that ‘schizophrenic’ would-be bi-gnomic utterances add not very much illumination to the proceedings. Most of us are plain, honest-dealing folk who say ‘yes’ when we mean ‘yes’ and ‘no’ when we mean ‘no’.
That is, if we have anything to say, we say it openly, clearly, and as inoffensively as we can. We assume that we all say what we actually think, and give our opinions openly as opinions, or provide what we honestly believe to be checkable facts.
I would simply ask you to do the same.
easyJambo says:
November 20, 2014 at 11:21 pm
“Pre Whyte numbers”
———————————–
Thanks EJ. Sometimes I feel completely out of my depth.
Danish Pastry says:
November 20, 2014 at 9:30 pm
“An aside to the state aid stuff, the pzj character seems to have had a bit of trolling going on against the @scotzine editor.”
——————————
I made a couple of posts on the hijacked Paul McConville site before realising it was a dead end. There was a comment referencing this PZJ character so as a matter of curiosity I did a bit of reading.
The PZJ initials refer to three characters from the Old Testament. There was some kind of esoteric masonic/templar back story that underpinned a myth that had no basis in the Bible or history as far as I could ascertain. It came across as a latter day pseudo deification; five hundred years ago the tale that was told might have been given some credence.
It doesn’t entirely surprise me that an individual who would don such questionable robes is capable of fabricating fantasies to maintain their own sense of somehow being special.
I won’t attempt to link anything that would lead posters to follow my own previous path down this blind alley.
twopanda
there appears to be a misunderstanding between you and Barca
you are both valued posters
It would help if you get to the point as Barca (and myself) have missed your grievance
It’s looking rather childish just now
Sitting above the furore about the future of TRFC is a much more worrying issue
And it`s This
Scotland is witnessing the migration of an idea from football into politics
Many regular posters have commented on the victim phenomenon which underlies most discussions of the downfall of RFC. Many decent, upright friends, relatives and acquaintances that happen to be Bears seem incapable of accepting that RFC should have been treated the same as any other Club when they fell on hard times. So much so that it has developed into a no no subject in many social interactions
Some people are baffled that despite hard evidence to the contrary a majority of TRFC fans now believe the rest of the nation has conspired to do down their club
Others opine that all we are seeing is an articulation of the WATP mentality which appears to have underpinned much of the support enjoyed by RFC over the years
But
Something is different now
I reckon we are going through a cultural sea change which is driving a wedge between TRFC fans and the rest of society in Scotland
This sea change had its roots in the RFC saga.
However it seems to have blossomed in the period leading up to and following the independence referendum
I doubt whether many non TRFC fans gave a thought to the Loyalist issue in casting their vote
However
If
TRFC social media is an indicator
Loyalism was the single most important factor for them in the referendum
And it seems to have been added to the list of “must emphasise” things in the otherwise predictable lexicon of TRFC fans
Somehow
People who supported the Yes Campaign are now seen somehow as anti TRFC
While those who voted No are seen as TRFC supporters unless they can be disqualified on the usual criteria
And what’s worrying about that?
Well for starters
When the national team is playing anybody
It is entitled to get the support of the nation it represents
That didn’t happen on Tuesday
And it’s worrying
Nuff Said
Castofthousands says:
November 20, 2014 at 11:44 pm
‘..Thanks EJ. Sometimes I feel completely out of my depth.’
——
And let me add my own thanks to those guys who had the prescience to realise that this whole saga had legs right from the beginning. My own records are abysmally deficient, because I never for one moment thought that the RTC stuff would be pulled from the blog. But I do have a record that shows that ‘JP says 08/07/11 at 7.36 pm’ was on the ” Whyte gets ever more mysterious” blog piece by RTC which ran from 19/06/11 to 14/08/11, attracting 731 posts!
Top marks to the half-dozen or so posters who have kept everything.
twopanda says:
November 20, 2014 at 11:48 pm
———
Right, Jack. Not that I’m personally averse ‘two’ pandas, but I think one of you may have crossed my particular bamboo line into mildly annoying and childish irrelevancy. Go suck a shoot, and gie us a’ peace!
PWB has his own problems less said the better I’m afraid
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/paul-baxendale-walker-fraud-trial-stopped-7371072
I may still be looking for my Robespierre, but Alloa may have given us all a new Turnbull Hutton:
mike mulraney @mikemulraney1 Nov 14
Any club can face difficulties,but until we stop rewarding clubs spending MUCH MORE than they can afford then problems for Scot football
mike mulraney @mikemulraney1 Nov 14
@bobmcphail in my opinion, any team who doesn’t face relegation after an administration event. It should be automatic.
Bearing in mind that one or two of the jokers at Hampden can read and do read this blog,let’s not let them off the hook by accepting that another special case will be made for the continuation of the Ibrox shape shifter.We have to keep the spotlight firmly on our football Authorities (a misnomer if ever there was one) and ensure no attempts are made to ‘manipulate’ another Armageddon scenario. Let’s not present them with a fait accompli.
scapaflow says:
November 21, 2014 at 12:59 am
=================================
Mike Mulraney clearly believes in sporting integrity. As the head post on this blog asks, why has the notion of sporting integrity become something to be mocked, rather than something to be aspired to? A quick and dirty glance around the Scottish leagues shows that every club, except one, sees the principle of living within its means as the only way ahead. The fact that only one Scottish club does not tells us everything, and it also tells us everything about those who mock the rest of us for asking for sporting integrity to be paramount. A successful Rangers living way beyond its means creates the perfect storm for them in every way possible. Of that there can be no doubt.
Richard Wilson in today’s ‘Dally Mail’ trying to rewrite history AGAIN
”…Hearts and Rangers take different paths after pain of administration
Rangers are in turmoil, despite takeover by Charles Green’s consortium
Ally McCoist’s men also trail Championship leaders Hearts by six points
The Jambos can increase lead with win at Tynecastle on Saturday
By MARK WILSON FOR THE SCOTTISH DAILY MAIL
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2843369/Hearts-Rangers-different-paths-pain-administration.html#ixzz3JgUxgn91
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Put it on the list of 50 ways to avoid the LIQUIDATION word
(and Event)
Different Wilson, sure Ricardo works for the telegraph which is one step up from this rag.
Walter giving it laldy in the Record today, surprised they printed his comments that Rangers should have been in good hands with Whyte as “he is a billionaire after all” 😀
Gary Ralston was responsible for the piece, assume Jackson has the day off
Is this the same Walter who
A) was completely complicit with McCoist in conning the fans into buying tens of thousands of season tickets when CG was in his pomp?
B ) as chairman of an AIM listed company oversaw some of the worst financial excesses and possibly illegal behaviour ever perpetrated against the shareholders of any company in Scotland ?
And the Media hold up this character as some sort of Scottish football hall of fame type hero..
The rats are all coming out to position themselves before the next explosion!
BBC Shortbread were interviewing Michael Kelly as I was sitting in a traffic jam just before 8am.
It was about the Celtic AGM and the push by their fans for a club like Celtic to pay the living rather than the minimum wage because it fits in with their traditions as well as being the right thing to do.
Well done guys I know some of you are here too.
Kelly spouted nonsense of the highest order.
Not perfect quotes from me because I only heard it once but you’ll get the jist
“It would cost Celtic £500K to meet this demand” (and as he said they are already wonderful employers)”And times are hard”.
“Hearts might be paying the Living Wage but they were in receivership weren’t they and haven’t proved their new financial model and anyway they are in a much lower league”.
“Peter Lawwells salary has gone up from nearly £300K to around £1M and that is justified because if you don’t pay that kind of money you can’t get the right people”. ” he has met his bonus targets and stuff like that”
And then the beezer.
“The whole of Scottish football including Celtic are missing the money Rangers brought to the party”.
It is fair to say the interviewer let him away with murder and I was shouting at the radio.
Scottish Football needs clubs who value their communities and more than that who value the wee guys who provide part time services every week, the kind of service that is the bedrock for the stupid salaries that some of the people at the top of the food chain take out. (Executives and players)
I hope Celtic get it right today….
….they certainly got it right when they got rid of the dinosaur that is Michael Kelly.
jimlarkin says:
November 21, 2014 at 7:09 am
Richard Wilson in today’s ‘Dally Mail’ trying to rewrite history AGAIN
============================================
I’m slightly confused but the article your refer to was written by Mark Wilson – is that a pen name that Richard Wilson uses when not writing for his employer viz BBC Scotland?
Re Kelly’s interview this morning, and his comment about Scottish football in financial meltdown without Sevco in the top league – does this idiot not read any newspapers or listen to TV or radio? It seems that Scottish football has less debt than at any time in the last 25 years, with clubs doing their utmost to live within their means. Well, apart from one notable example, obviously.
Why are such patently untrue statements not challenged? Why don’t journos have the bollocks to ask a simple questions and expose these sort of idiots idiots for the ignorant, badly-informed, reactionary morons they are?
ecobhoy says:
November 21, 2014 at 9:17 am
5 1 Rate This
jimlarkin says:
November 21, 2014 at 7:09 am
Richard Wilson in today’s ‘Dally Mail’ trying to rewrite history AGAIN
============================================
I’m slightly confused but the article your refer to was written by Mark Wilson – is that a pen name that Richard Wilson uses when not writing for his employer viz BBC Scotland?
£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
Apologies for the Typo
– should, of course, have stated it was Mark Wilson (not Richard).
😳
It’s Celtic’s AGM today. It seems that they will not implement the living wage but will introduce a minimum hourly rate of £7.85 for their own employees, which is 20p above the Living Wage.
I wonder if this is a halfway house position whereby they will not insist on their contracted suppliers adopting Living Wage rates.
Celtic Underground @celticrumours · 25m 25 minutes ago
Re living wage, Celtic will introduce minimum hourly wage of £7:85 per employee #ticagm
So to repeat we will not sign up to LW but HAVE introduced a minimum hourly pay rate of £7.85per hr #ticagm
So #celtic hourly rate is 20p ABOVE the current Glasgow minimum wage #ticagm
Finchleyflyer says:
November 21, 2014 at 9:40 am
“Why are such patently untrue statements not challenged? Why don’t journos have the bollocks to ask a simple questions and expose these sort of idiots idiots for the ignorant, badly-informed, reactionary morons they are?”
_________________________
I offer three excuses, or if you prefer reasons.
1. They don’t understand themselves – or the truth/reality is too difficult to comprehend and/or accept
2. The SMSM actually DO miss the OF games as they sold copy/created interest
3. There are many Rangers sympathisers or supporters in the media who want TRFC to ‘get back’ to the Top Division pronto.
What happened to RFC was seismic for Scottish Football, folk like Kelly are from a bygone era now.
However, this blog exists to educate and inform people AND to also ensure that nonsense like this is exposed, and wherever possible the right to reply or correct is demanded.
The point about Scottish Football having less debt than ever before is at the crux of the matter. Whatever money RFC brought to the game – outwith attendances – wasn’t theirs, so the money they paid in transfers to others Scottish Clubs, whilst welcome, was in reality put on a credit card, a bill which they never paid.
This wasn’t and isn’t sustainable.
The truth and the reality will prevail if enough people challenge nonsense like this and continue to make the case for ‘living within means’. There, literally, is no other way.
GoosyGoosy says:
November 20, 2014 at 11:57 pm
========================
Good post GG, the relationship between fitba, and in particular the story around t’rangers, and the political/cultural atmosphere in our wee country is evident to me also. I’m not entirely convinced that there was a migration of an idea from fitba into politics or if it was vice versa; football is after all a fairly minority interest in the real world. However, that’s being picky, the fact is that a perceived threat to power has been detected and the battle lines drawn. The fact that the public (i.e. the fans) is recruited via the politics of fear (the victim role play) to fight the battle is standard practice. (c.f UKIP yesterday in Rochester/Strood) It’s not a conspiracy, it is entirely pragmatic; it’s all about the money of course but the starting point is power.
I believe that, on top of that, what we are seeing with old Rangers support, including the establishment and the MSM, is a transition similar to that around racism, homophobia and most other institutionalised, ingrained, supremacist cultural beliefs. It takes a long time to eradicate but the starting point is that all but a few move forward whilst the remainder pine for the “good old days”. I have often expressed amazement that not enough, even one, genuine Scottish businessmen or business stepped forward to drop the few million that were needed to pull them through but I’ve been tongue in cheek of course. People have moved on, even though they may not admit it: who is going to put their name to this crock of outdated hatred? Only the zoomers are left talking about “rightful place” along with “banter’ and “traditional values”..
As a comparison note two stories from England this week. Club patrons and sponsors (£££’s) walk away from Sheff Wed because they appear to be recruiting a convicted rapist out on licence and Wigan sponsors (more £££’s) pull out after Whelan signs a manager with racist charges over him and adds a bit of good old fashioned “common sense” about Jews and “chinks” (as he calls them) into the mix. Now before I get shot down please note it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong in the aforementioned cases, the fact is most of society is moving on, it doesn’t sit well with people or with companies and that’s enough. There is no way racism has been or is even close to being driven out of fitba but some people have moved on, some will want to stick around dreaming of a past when they called the shots, they held the power. Interesting times.
easyJambo says:
November 20, 2014 at 11:21 pm
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Castofthousands says: November 20, 2014 at 11:11 pm
——————
Pre Whyte numbers
MIH Group 92,842,388 85.34%
Metlika (Dave King) 5,797,026 5.33%
Whyte bought the MIH holding.
==========
Why is it that RFC IL is listed as a subsidiary of MIH and not TRFC Group Ltd – Formerly called wavetower?
Goosey Goosey
For me the Scotland Team no longer represent Scotland, they represent a corporation – The SFA and them alone and for that reason they can ram it
There’s an awful lot of effort being put into the “Rangers must be in the top flight” propaganda campaign this week. Everybody from Strachan downwards has been wheeled in to support the campaign by the usual suspects from the press corps and the broadcast media. Not one word of dissent from the football world that I can find reported, from managers, players, ex players, pundits, hangers-on, the message is nothing if not consistent. Anyone with a Celtic connection preferred, of course, just in case we think there is some bias here.
Can it really be the case that not one single “insider” holds a different view? Not even one? I just don’t buy it.
Personally, I think that the North Koreans should be invited to Hampden to find out how media manipulation is managed by REAL experts.
Can it really be the case that not one single “insider” holds a different view? Not even one? I just don’t buy it.
——————————————————————————-
Neepheid, that is indeed a very pertinent question. They must be out there, within the senior clubs and the corridors of power. Unwilling to rock the boat? Afraid of the reaction/ostracisation/consequences of sticking their head above the parapet? It can’t only be the internet bampots who are not rushing to get things “back as they should be”!
the taxman cometh says: November 21, 2014 at 11:22 am
Craig Whyte’s company Wavetower (later TRFC Group Ltd) bought MIH’s 85% shareholding in Rangers Football Club PLC (later RFC 2012(IL) from MIH in May 2011. At that point RFC PLC ceased to be a subsidiary of MIH.
finchleyflyer says:
November 21, 2014 at 11:41 am
Michael Kelly is a rocket, who almost killed Celtic. Football, Glasgow, The Labour Party, Politics, Scotland all deserve so much better than Michael bloody Kelly.
easyJambo says:
November 21, 2014 at 11:45 am
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the taxman cometh says: November 21, 2014 at 11:22 am
Craig Whyte’s company Wavetower (later TRFC Group Ltd) bought MIH’s 85% shareholding in Rangers Football Club PLC (later RFC 2012(IL) from MIH in May 2011. At that point RFC PLC ceased to be a subsidiary of MIH.
====
So why is it still listed as a subsidiary of MIH
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC192523/MURRAY-INTERNATIONAL-HOLDINGS-LIMITED/group-structure#group-structure
finchleyflyer says:
November 21, 2014 at 11:41 am
3 0 Rate This
Can it really be the case that not one single “insider” holds a different view? Not even one? I just don’t buy it.
——————————————————————————-
Neepheid, that is indeed a very pertinent question. They must be out there, within the senior clubs and the corridors of power. Unwilling to rock the boat? Afraid of the reaction/ostracisation/consequences of sticking their head above the parapet? It can’t only be the internet bampots who are not rushing to get things “back as they should be”!
=====================================
Its quite incredible isn’t it? I wonder at this myself, the consistency with which this message us relayed and repeated to the viewing, reading, listening public. Almost like a mantra of sorts.
I think in fairness 1 or 2 dissenting voices have been heard from time to time but we hear/read from them so little as to make little difference to the constant media campaign.
Off the top of my head, Willie Miller, Michael Stewart and Jim Spence have made the counter argument and tried to talk some sense but very much get drowned out by the noisy din of “must get Rangers back to the top at all costs”.
Matty Roth says:
November 21, 2014 at 11:56 am
Marty et al, it is the blind stupidity of it all that beggars belief. They can put Rangers in the top flight. What they can’t do is return us to the position where Rangers and Celtic dominate. Those days are gone for a very long time, quite possibly permanently. That they are unable to see that, makes them unfit to run a pub team.
Neepheid,
There is of course another factor that links your two ‘poles of opinion re restructuring’ together.
When people like Kelly refer to the money lost from THEIR absence they are of course expecting you, the little person, not to understand that their presence was also a bit of a myth in that, in at least the last decade or so of their existence, the money-go-round that Kelly so fondly remembers did of course require a public subsidy to sustain it.
Secondly, even if said public subsidy is forthcoming it is not quite so clear how evenly spread said dividends were and would be. Kelly’s CFC have one vote. 39 clubs (I forget how many it actually is now!!!) previously in receipt of sod all all have a vote too. There is possibly a lesson there for opinion gatherers.
Thirdly, the helicopter drama that Kelly is presumably referring back to, contained what would become a fairly toxic brand within it. Asking members to vote for the greater good, is difficult if the greater good still contains a bitter pill. What I am trying to say (and I’m not even having a go at Kelly per se) is I am not clear that the good old days are even recoverable.
I am fairly sure at my birthday next week, that Elvis (the real one that is) singing would improve the occasion. But it doesn’t make it any more achievable!
the taxman cometh says: November 21, 2014 at 11:54 am
So why is it still listed as a subsidiary of MIH
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC192523/MURRAY-INTERNATIONAL-HOLDINGS-LIMITED/group-structure#group-structure
======================
No idea. Duedil also has the same group structure.
easyJambo says:
November 21, 2014 at 12:12 pm
I thought BDO was responsible for that, and took it as an early signal that all was not well, and that BDO were going to do a thorough job. Could be wrong though!
From Celtic AGM
Celtic Underground @celticrumours · 55s56 seconds ago
“Financial Fair Play – 1st sanctions happened & we benefited. SFA will shortly introduce FFP here” PL
And about fair effin time.
I think I can retire now 🙂