A spectre is haunting Scottish Football

ByTrisidium

A spectre is haunting Scottish Football

From the TSFM Manifesto 🙂

A spectre is haunting Scottish Football — the spectre of Sporting Integrity. All the powers of the old firms have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Billy and Dan, Blazer and Cassock, Record and Sun, Balance Sheet and P&L.
Where is the football fan in opposition to these that has not been decried as a “sporting integrity bampot” by his opponents in power?

Two things result from this fact:

I. Sporting Integrity is already widely acknowledged to be itself a power for good.

II. It is high time that Lovers of Sport should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Sporting Integrity with a manifesto of fair play.

To this end, Lovers of Sport of various partisanship have assembled on TSFM and sketched their manifesto, to be published on tsfm.scot.

Those who love sport though are challenged not just by the taunts of the monosyllabic automatons in the MSM, but by the owners of our football clubs who have displayed an almost total disregard to our wish to have a fair competition played out in the spirit of friendly rivalry. In fact the clubs, who speak those fine words, are not nearly as outraged as we are by the damage done to the integrity of the sport in the past few years .

In fact the term Sporting Integrity has become, since the latter stages of the Rangers era, a term of abuse; a mocking soubriquet attached to those who want sport to be just that – sport.

Sporting integrity now lives in the same media pigeon-hole as words like Islam, left-wing, militant, Muslim – and a host of others; words which are threats to the established order now set up as in-jokes, in order to reduce the effectiveness of the idea.

In fact, a new terminology has evolved in the reporting of football by both club officials and The Succulent Lamb Chapel alike;

“.. Sporting Integrity but …”.

For example

“We all want sporting integrity, but finance is more important”

Says who exactly?

Stated in such a matter of fact way that the obvious question is headed off at the pass, it is sometimes difficult to re-frame the discussion – perhaps because crayon is so hard to erase?

This is the backdrop to The Scottish Football Monitor and the world in which we live. Often the levels of scrutiny employed by our contributors are far in excess of any scrutiny employed by the MSM. Indeed our ideas and theories are regularly plagiarised by those very same lazy journalists who lurk here, and cherry-pick material to suit their own agendas; regularly claiming exclusives for stories that TSFM and RTC before us had placed in the public domain weeks earlier.

This was going to lead into a discourse about the love of money versus the love of sport – of how the sacred cows of acquisitiveness, gate- retention and turnstile spinning is far more important to the heads of our football clubs (the Billys, Dans and Blazers of the intro) than maintaining the traditions of our sport.

However events of Friday 14th November have given me cause to leave that for another day. The biggest squirrel of all in this sorry saga has always been the sleight of hand employed instil a siege mentality in the Rangers fans. The press have time and again assisted people (with no love of football in general or Rangers in particular) to enrich themselves – legally or otherwise – and feed on the loyalty of Rangers fans.

A matter for Rangers fans may also be the identity of some of those who had their trust, but who also assisted the Whytes and Greens by their public statements of support.

Our contention has been that rules have been bent twisted or broken to accommodate those people, the real enemies of the Rangers fans – and fans everywhere.

Through our collective research and group-analysis of events, we have also wondered out loud about the legality of many aspects of the operating style of some of the main players in the affair. That suspicion has been shared most notably by Mark Daly and Alex Thompson, but crucially now appears to be shared by Law Enforcement.

I confess I am fed up with the self-styled “bampot” epithet. For the avoidance of doubt, the “bampots” in this affair are those who have greater resources than us, and access to the truth, but who have lacked either the will or the courage or the imagination to follow it through.

We are anything but bampots. Rather, we have demonstrated that the wisdom of the crowd is more effective by far than any remnants of wisdom in the press.

I have no doubt that the police investigation into this matter is proceeding in spite of great opposition in the MSM and the Scottish Football Authorities – all of whom conspired to expose Rangers to the custodianship of those for whom football is a foreign language.

I have no doubt that the constant exposition of wrong-doing on this blog, in particular the questions we have constantly raised, and anomalies we have pointed out, has assisted and enabled the law enforcement agencies in this process.

If we are to be consistent in this, our enabling of the authorities, we MUST show restraint at all times as this process is followed through. People who are charged with a crime deserve to be given a fair trial in the absence of rumour or innuendo. We must also, if we are to continue as the spectre which haunts the avaricious – and the real bampots – be seen to be better than they, and give them no cause to accuse us of irresponsibility.

This affair has now evolved way beyond one club gaining unfair advantage over others. For all the understandable Schadenfreude of many among us, the real enemy is not Rangers, it is about those who enabled and continue to enable the farce at Ibrox.

This is now about systematic cheating at the heart of the Scottish game (in the name of cash and in spite of lip service to sporting integrity), and how the greed of a bunch of ethically challenged officials allowed another group of ethically challenged businessmen free rein to enrich themselves at the expense of the fans.

Whether laws were broken or not, the players at Rangers have come and gone and are variables, but the malignant constant at the SFA and SPFL are still there. Last night, even after the news that four men had been arrested in connection with the takeover at Ibrox in 2011, they were gathered together at Celtic Park with their Irish counterparts, tucking into succulent lamb (perhaps) and fine wines, doing some back slapping, making jokes about the vulgarities of their fans, bragging about the ST money they have banked.

The revolution won’t be over until they are gone, and if they remain, it is Scottish Football that will be over.

 

 

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

4,164 Comments so far

Partizani TiranaPosted on9:21 am - Nov 16, 2014


I was a bit disappointed that the recent arrests indicate a rather narrow focus for the police investigation. Not so, according to the below:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-police-probe-events-after-green-took-over-at-club.25885297
——
“The Sunday Herald can reveal that a report sent to the ­procurator fiscal in Glasgow over the affair before the detentions related to alleged “incidents” between ­January 2010 and November 2012, a period which covers over a year before Craig Whyte took the reins at Rangers but also up to five months after the Charles Green consortium bought the assets.”

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on9:56 am - Nov 16, 2014


It’s such a complex web of corruption, deceit and lies whichever way you look at events that have transpired at Ibrox since Murray took over and particularly since about 2010.

Would it be possible that the recent attempt at steadying the ship, or at least attempting to steer it on a more acceptable course by Dave King, and his largely nameless consortium, was a last attempt by the Establishment to rescue a desperate situation?

These characters would have all been well aware what was coming down the track regarding the current investigations and the like.

To me, the “good” ship Sevco is looking more rudderless by the day.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:03 am - Nov 16, 2014


Partizani Tirana says:
November 16, 2014 at 9:21 am

I was a bit disappointed that the recent arrests indicate a rather narrow focus for the police investigation. Not so, according to the below:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-police-probe-events-after-green-took-over-at-club.25885297
—————————————————-
I think the Herald are taking a chance here on exactly when ‘contempt of court’ rules apply. As a paper they used to have excellent legal advice done on their stories.

I wonder with financial cut-backs whether they have gone for a cheaper option? I could be wrong here and perhaps the difference of legal opinion over timing has been settled by a legal decision that has passed me by.

Personally I have no intention of commenting in detail on the investigation but would observe that it could be wrong IMO to conclude that the scope of the police enquiries are too narrow from events to date.

We don’t know what the police are enquiring into in any detail and we don’t know how advanced or widespread those enquiries are.

We all have to be responsible and very careful about what we publish and most of all patient.

We’ve been calling for a full investigation for long enough. We’ve got it and we must allow the police and prosecuting Authorities to get on with their work without erecting roadblocks against them.

And, whether some like it or not, we must adhere to the principle that any accused person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. That’s our legal system and a major pillar of what our democracy rests on in spite of its many failings.

Accused have to receive a fair trial and you can be sure that defence lawyers always look for anything which attacks the fairness of proceedings and can be used to the advantage of their clients. This comment is made in general and should not be taken to relate to any current or future events which might result from recent events.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:13 am - Nov 16, 2014


upthehoops says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:05 am

Just a thought. If a court case develops from current arrests might there be a clear statement from those proceedings which puts the same club stance to bed forever?
============================================
I’m hoping for much more important and weightier ‘statements’ than that tbh 😆

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scapaflowPosted on10:52 am - Nov 16, 2014


ecobhoy says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:03 am

Surprised Herald left the comments open, asking for trouble.

Still, the Herald piece helps recent events to make more sense to me at least 😉

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LurkPakPosted on10:53 am - Nov 16, 2014


I’m not sure if I can say or ask this, but….

With the recent news that a current investor in TRFC was in the company of the 5th and yet to be detained individual back in 2011, would that raise alarm bells for anyone?

On a different note entirely, here’s a dream…

The top 4 in the championship join the SPFL to make our league more varied and allow some of our smaller teams to grow. (Thank you Hamilton and Inverness for showing the bigger boys how it can be done)

All clubs and the SFA agree a deal with a Turf manufacturer/producer to enable all SPFL clubs to maintain a high level playing surface. (Is this mad? I think fans could be taught to help with some of the work and surely every team would like a nice pitch)

Could advertising space be sold to have billboards etc erected at many of the stadia to block out the views of Mrs Johnson’s living room and the like? Perhaps extra sites for cameras to be mounted could also be added to increase the quality of coverage produced.

Clubs work with each other and travel companies to provide discounts for travel, perhaps a set discount for season ticket holders and away fans benefit from retention of ticket stubs? (Away fans should probably also get a discount, perhaps scaling with the number of away ticket stubs they keep each year, when buying season tickets if they don’t already)

Assistance from government to grant tax breaks to young players in Scotland, perhaps allowing some clubs to pay a smidgen more to hold onto talent another year or two or even attracting young players to Scotland’s top flight rather than England’s second or third. (ha-ha, I really am dreaming here right?)

Whilst I am dreaming, if we could have all of the above right now AND a small group of like minded businessmen to invest in a half dozen of our clubs at the same time. We don’t need sugar daddy mentalists, just solid folk to offer some support to teams who really deserve it. Motherwell spring to mind, possibly because I felt a little sorry for McCall recently. It can’t be easy to finish high in the league several times and still lose your better players every season for buttons.

So, not asking a lot am I? 😛

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scottcPosted on10:57 am - Nov 16, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:27 am

So, Germany might quit FIFA. Nice one.

Even better DP. It’s Germany saying UEFA might quit FIFA. We could all get out.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/15/fifa-uefa-world-cup-germany-football

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Jake CantonaPosted on11:47 am - Nov 16, 2014


Bawsman says:
November 16, 2014 at 7:47 am

BDO will be issuing there latest report soon, the temperature in the frying pan is building, some logs are required for the fire.

—————-

I misread “logs” as “logos”. Obviously spent too much time wondering who owns the badges

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erniePosted on11:49 am - Nov 16, 2014


I note the Herald piece “reveals” that the case investigation covers 2010-2012 and that Green and Whyte are specifically mentioned. Not the previous owner in the timescale though who presumably maintains a very low profile.
As I swot up on fraud etc I think I might have a look at injunctions as well: just a thought.
Note the comments to the articles include the party line – we were a victim of crime, jail Whyte etc, arrest HMRC for their part. This is the story that will run in the SMSM when the dust settles this week.
Also, while I’m on, if fans want to counteract league recon stitch ups boycotting Scotland games is pointless. The SFA have loads of dosh and will just ride it out and the fan base in general don’t even know what this story is but the primary reason is that they do what the clubs direct them to. Threaten your own club with non purchase of season tickets, we do walking away and they’d better not forget it.

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scapaflowPosted on12:00 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Interesting blog from Sport lawyer Gregory Ioannidis, right in TSFM’s wheelhouse so to speak

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20141115084124-55498583-challenging-the-actions-of-a-sport-governing-body

Edit

Maybe we should form a Junior Team -TSFM United, and join the SFA 😉

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Jake CantonaPosted on12:06 pm - Nov 16, 2014


scottc says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:57 am

Even better DP. It’s Germany saying UEFA might quit FIFA. We could all get out.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/15/fifa-uefa-world-cup-germany-football

————-

If it’s not an idle threat, UEFA going it alone would make excellent sense for European football. It probably has the financial clout to turn the Euro championship into a biennial competition (to make up for and compete against a FIFA ‘world’ cup) and already has the four most lucrative leagues in the world in terms of revenue from advertising and sponsors, not to mention the Champions League. No money would be going from UEFA to FIFA (and thence who knows where), which would certainly weaken FIFA in the long run, and might encourage reform at FIFA.

I’m thinking Platini as Bonaparte, with a slightly more successful Russian campaign and no exile to end it.

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bhigowenPosted on12:15 pm - Nov 16, 2014


I have been saying this for the past two years.
I would expect there are quite a number of SFA officials prepairing to head for the hills.
I hope the police investigation is far reaching and will include the goings on at the SFA.

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upthehoopsPosted on12:15 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Given the primary purpose of the company TRFC is football related, they needed a league for their team to play in when the company was formed. If a court case takes place, are we finally going to get the football authorities to answer questions under oath that they have ignored from us for nearly three years?

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parttimearabPosted on12:47 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Jake Cantona says:
November 16, 2014 at 12:06 pm
3 1 Rate This

scottc says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:57 am

Even better DP. It’s Germany saying UEFA might quit FIFA. We could all get out.

————-

If it’s not an idle threat, UEFA going it alone would make excellent sense for European football.
==========================================================
While leaving a sink of corruption makes sense I’m struggling to see the attraction of replacing it with the corporate greedfest that is UEFA, an organisation that by refusing to stand up to the so called big clubs has done more to damage club football than any FIFA bribes.

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twopandaPosted on12:56 pm - Nov 16, 2014


As we`re nearing the festive season
mrtp wants a TSFM mug – Don`t let on but I might get him this instead 😉

http://sport.stv.tv/blog/305161-ally-mccoist-football-video-game-contains-tax-dodge/

Director of Football
by Empire
Platform: Windows 95 / 98 / NT / 2000

• Assume the demanding role as Director of Football
• Maybe you can build one of the biggest clubs in the world
• Find a sponsor, expand your stadium and reduce your car parking
• Increase your ticket prices and extend your corporate boxes
• Balance your books as well as your team

All matches are live, with touchline decisions unfolding before your eyes ❗

1 new from £29.91 – 10 used from £0.01

A perfect present for some 😉
mtp

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ecobhoyPosted on1:14 pm - Nov 16, 2014


scapaflow says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:52 am
ecobhoy says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:03 am

Surprised Herald left the comments open, asking for trouble.

Still, the Herald piece helps recent events to make more sense to me at least 😉
==============================================
I believe leaving comments ‘open’ shows that there is not even one functioning brain cell left to share between senior Herald editorial management.

I would love to be sitting in court listening to the duty editor directly responsible for the decision attempt to explain their reasoning to a Law Lord. From where I sit I reckon a defence of insanity is the best move.

As to the allegations made in the article possibly revealing detail of a live police investigation; a possible breach of contempt of court rules; and possible defamatory statements against identifiable individuals.

Well what can I advise the Herald other than: ‘Time to start checking for countries with no extradition treaty with the UK. perhaps Mr Rizvi can help out’.

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Jake CantonaPosted on1:44 pm - Nov 16, 2014


parttimearab says:
November 16, 2014 at 12:47 pm

While leaving a sink of corruption makes sense I’m struggling to see the attraction of replacing it with the corporate greedfest that is UEFA, an organisation that by refusing to stand up to the so called big clubs has done more to damage club football than any FIFA bribes.

——————–

I agree with you a long way about all of that. I’m just hoping that if UEFA found the moral courage to leave FIFA over corruption etc, then UEFA would then continue to use said moral courage in their governance of the game for the benefit of everyone under their authority and not simply give in to the vested interests of the larger, quasi-multinational clubs.

Yes, yes I know it’s a bit deluded on my part.

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scapaflowPosted on2:07 pm - Nov 16, 2014


ecobhoy says:
November 16, 2014 at 1:14 pm

Couldn’t possibly comment :mrgreen:

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Big PinkPosted on2:11 pm - Nov 16, 2014


The Rangers’ saga, the World Cup bid affair and the fact that the Champions League is the word’s largest institutional oxymoron, all give me pause for this thought.

The thing that we value so much is actually unrecognisable in what we call modern football. Money has become such a huge part of the game, it is an almost impossible task to regain it for the people who love it.

When one considers how organised crime has got a foothold in the players’ agents world, it is hardly surprising that with so much money at stake, they will be trying to get their hands on the cash that is now on the table at top clubs.

The problem is that once they have the access to that cash, it will need an industrial size blowtorch to remove that access.

There is nothing so difficult as parting a rich man from his money.

I think if we really love the game, we need to divorce ourselves from the moonbeams on offer in the Champions’ League.
If the main reason for supporting our clubs is to see that kind of success, then I don’t think we have much to complain about.

If the real reason is that we have an emotional attachment to what our club(s) represent, then we need to lower expectations.

I honestly don’t think we can have both.

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twopandaPosted on3:20 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Phil has another insightful piece up
btw – Thanks Phil! for the legal heads up yesterday 😉
mtp

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scapaflowPosted on4:06 pm - Nov 16, 2014


twopanda says:
November 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm

The British Virgin islands you say?

How do Jack

http://www.ifcforum.org/PDFs/ComSec_IFCForum_Conference_Brochure.pdf
http://www.bbc.com/news/10273314

The world really is a small place these days! :mrgreen:

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Danish PastryPosted on4:07 pm - Nov 16, 2014


twopanda says:
November 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm
4 0 Rate This

Phil has another insightful piece up
btw – Thanks Phil! for the legal heads up yesterday 😉
mtp
————

Absolutely.

Does Sports Direct have reverse gear? At this point you’d think MA would be backing off and distancing himself from Ibrox rather than becoming more involved.

And to think our football authorities helped facilitate the entrance of the whole cast of the characters involved, and their ‘business plan’.

Sevco’s membership soon to be transferred to Flesher’s Haugh United?

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SmugasPosted on4:20 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Ashley doesn’t have a reverse gear, nor does he need one. He has a ready made ctrl+alt+del in (at least) administration if he needs it to start afresh. Big clubs sell shirts. Big victimised clubs sell LOTS of shirts.

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Danish PastryPosted on4:24 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Smugas says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:20 pm
1 0 Rate This

Ashley doesn’t have a reverse gear, nor does he need one. He has a ready made ctrl+alt+del in (at least) administration if he needs it to start afresh. Big clubs sell shirts. Big victimised clubs sell LOTS of shirts.
———–

Well, how about some kind of reverse gear, as in blue on one side and black & red stripes on the other? 💡

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twopandaPosted on4:27 pm - Nov 16, 2014


scapaflow says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:06 pm

`How do Jack`
Lost me scapa 😕
mtp

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scapaflowPosted on4:31 pm - Nov 16, 2014


twopanda says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:27 pm

Our old friend Jack Irvine of media house, has a lot of history with the British Virgin Islands, as I said, its a small world these days and coincidences are bound to happen

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twopandaPosted on4:36 pm - Nov 16, 2014


scapaflow says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:31 pm
🙂
Why does that not surprise me?
Gee Whizz, there`s no end to this
mtp

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StevieBCPosted on4:59 pm - Nov 16, 2014


twopanda says: November 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm

Phil has another insightful piece up…
======================================
Is Phil able to elucidate the reference that both Wallace and Nash had serious concerns about Sevco and RIFC BEFORE they took on their roles?

Nash was initially engaged on a consultancy basis – so no real personal risk, IMO.
But Wallace?

He came in as CEO of TRFC and had a relatively decent profile/reputation at stake.
Why did he take the job – and then why did he not walk away much sooner?
Did he simply need the money for a final pay day?

Confused.com. 😕

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scapaflowPosted on5:02 pm - Nov 16, 2014


StevieBC says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:59 pm

Confused.com. 😕

Ditto 😆

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twopandaPosted on5:04 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:07 pm
Sevco’s membership soon to be transferred to Flesher’s Haugh United?
_

Positive DP
It could work under a SFA/ SPFL oversight committee of qualified trustee Bears
Any team with 20-30-40k supporters could make it
Even if mistakes were made it`d be 1000% better than the `unmentionables` over past 3 years
mtp

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on5:14 pm - Nov 16, 2014


twopanda says:
November 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm
—————————————————-
No problems.
The Contempt of Court issue a very real one.
Especially as any court proceedings-if they happen-are likely to be Solemn (with a jury) and not Summary.

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TorquemadaPosted on5:38 pm - Nov 16, 2014


ecobhoy says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:13 am
———————
There is no more “weightier matter” than the new club question if you are a lover of Scottish football, IMO. This is the issue that has poisoned the game in Scotland.

All the corruption, dishonesty and absurd wails of “we are the victims” that have bedevilled the sport since 2012 can be traced to the refusal of the authorities to categorically state that Rangers 2012 is a new club and that Rangers 1872 is dead.

Please God NO!!!!
I feel a revival of the OCNC Thread in my water. Enough already.
TSFM

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Big PinkPosted on5:44 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Torq
Murray – and not OCNC – is Patient Zero
A bit of perspective please.

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Big PinkPosted on5:53 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and despite TSFM’s understandable suspicion of CtH, I get the feeling that Craig Whyte’s stupidity in letting libertycapital.biz drop is the singularity that will lead to some people losing their … er, liberty.

Had CtH not picked up that domain, and sat quietly as the mails came flowing, what evidence would have been available to the law enforcement agencies?

Of course if CtH’s input is as crucial as that, the rules of evidence may be tested to the full in the coming months.

If a trial results from these latest episodes, it will be one that Lord Denning (God bless him) thought beyond a jury’s intellect to deliberate on.

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TorquemadaPosted on6:00 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Big Pink says:
November 16, 2014 at 5:44 pm
0 0 Rate This

Torq
Murray and not OCNC – is Patient Zero
A bit of perspective please.
———
I was talking purely in football terms, BP. My own country is knee-deep in crooked businessmen and spivs. They are always with us. Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they don’t. The world turns. It is not often an entire sport is reduced to the present state of Scottish football by a fear to state the truth, however.

Anyway, I appear to have stepped on TSFM’s toes so I’ll withdraw sharpish. My apologies, TSFM. 😳

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on6:00 pm - Nov 16, 2014


StevieBC says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:59 pm
0 0 Rate This

======================================
Is Phil able to elucidate the reference that both Wallace and Nash had serious concerns about Sevco and RIFC BEFORE they took on their roles?
———————————————————————-

Not in anyway that is currently publishable I’m afraid.

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Danish PastryPosted on6:19 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Murray live on Sky right now. Sensational, just when you thought he was gone 😯

No, not that one …

Go Andy!

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SmugasPosted on6:23 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Torquemada
I mean this entirely as some advice that you can take and it is entirely up to you if you take it. You should quickly be able to locate the GT audit letter that has caused so much consternation recently. I assume this came from CtH and will also be relevant to the court case so I will offer no further comment on it, other than to say that vis a vis OC/NC they seem particularly clear on the matter (bearing in mind the timing , 2 days into admin) and they seem to know a bit about this whole business and finance stuff!

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smallchangePosted on6:30 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Big Pink says:
November 16, 2014 at 5:53 pm

If a trial results from these latest episodes, it will be one that Lord Denning (God bless him) thought beyond a jury’s intellect to deliberate on.

=================

http://www.barristermagazine.com/archivedsite/articles/issue25/staple.html

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SouthernExilePosted on6:49 pm - Nov 16, 2014


TSFM

Could we clarify what comment/ opinion is or is not permissible on here given recent events?

Police Scotland have issued a statement saying that they are investigating issues relating to the sale and purchase of oldco in 2011. None of the five individuals arrested/sought by the police have had any role in the operation of newco post the asset sale in 2012 (indeed, in the case of Whyte, we have had an Official Investigation which confirmed that he has had no role in the operation of the new entity).

So where do we draw the line?

Not mischief making, just concerned that the forum might muzzle itself unnecessarily – perhaps because of our own conspiracy theories about linkages!

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Long Time LurkerPosted on6:51 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Phil, if you were a betting man, would you put any money on shares of a football related entity on the AIM being suspended in the near future?

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/charlie-is-my-darling/

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Danish PastryPosted on6:59 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Big Pink says:
November 16, 2014 at 5:53 pm
5 0 Rate This

… libertycapital.biz … Had CtH not picked up that domain, and sat quietly as the mails came flowing, what evidence would have been available to the law enforcement agencies?
———-

Well, that was an interesting confirmation of how that material turned up. I’d heard that as a theory but never confirmed. So CW wasn’t CF?

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CastofthousandsPosted on7:11 pm - Nov 16, 2014


ianagain says:
November 16, 2014 at 12:49 am

“About a 9 months ago James from the Drum and myself sat in a HighCourt in England and listned to a plaintiff explaining that viz a viz Charlotte ño Scots police enquiries were ongoing or were finished, ergo Charlotte was open to all.”
———————-
Prior to the arrests on Friday there had been reported an earlier detention or questioning of a suspect concerning ‘fraud at Rangers’, as I believe the headline may have been. At that time there was speculation by posters that the man detained/questioned might be the person who had constructed the ‘Charlotte’ releases. I don’t think there was any firm evidence of this hypothesis, it just felt like the right kind of interpretation of the situation.

Our speculation centred on there being a possible blackmail motive behind the Charlotte information and that that was the root of any purported fraud. Billy Boyce has subsequently offered a different colour to this earlier incident, one which I can see reasons for concurring with.

I can’t easily locate this earlier article. Perhaps someone can put ianagain’s mind at rest and post up the article again.

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twopandaPosted on7:18 pm - Nov 16, 2014


http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC192523/MURRAY-INTERNATIONAL-HOLDINGS-LIMITED/group-structure

mtp

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scapaflowPosted on7:19 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Long Time Lurker says:
November 16, 2014 at 6:51 pm

On what basis? Anyone expecting instant, or even quick results from any of the latest developments is going to be disappointed IMO

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HirsutePursuitPosted on7:38 pm - Nov 16, 2014


The man who was subject of a report to the PF is said to be 45 years of age – therefore not the MBB

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/297348-man-reported-alleged-extortion-in-probe-into-rangers-online-leaks/

I will not speculate (or ask others to do same); but note that the STV piece does not provide any details of the alleged extortion.

How, or if, this matter relates to more recent developments is simply not known.

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CastofthousandsPosted on7:46 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Big Pink says:
November 16, 2014 at 5:53 pm

“Had CtH not picked up that domain, and sat quietly as the mails came flowing, what evidence would have been available to the law enforcement agencies?”
———————–
I’m not sure that was the precise mechanism BP. The earliest pieces of CF correspondence were preliminary steps taken by JI to cleanse MBB internet profile; that’s late 2009. The audio must be from 2012. That’s a long time for the phone to be left dangling off the hook. I rather envisaged the capture of an e:mail inbox. CF did say he/she had thousands of items. Such a tranche would take some time to accumulate. I don’t know if this is technically feasible since the inbox would usually be stored on a local machine. One for the techies to muse upon.

However it could indeed be the case that an utter lack of organisation led to an information pipe spewing out correspondence for years on end.

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justshateredPosted on7:55 pm - Nov 16, 2014


I know that there are a lot of people looking in who are more practiced in the area of insolvency than myself so may I pose this question:
How many Administrators have deliberately changed the name of the company that has failed to achieve a CVA to facilitate the company, who bought the assets, to assume the name of the old company?
And was this action beyond the remit of Administrators?

Now I know there is no hint of phoenixing, unless Craig Whyte was involved in setting up SEVCO 5088, so why do it?

Unless this was advised by the National Association to allow them to sanction ‘the continuation’ of the club. Now dear old Campbell surely wouldn’t have gone so far. Would he?

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SmugasPosted on8:00 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Another musing.

What’s the timescale of the big tax case appeal relative to the likely court time for the 4 tomorrow. That really would be their perfect storm.

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on8:01 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Long Time Lurker says:
November 16, 2014 at 6:51 pm
3 0 Rate This
—————————————————
No idea.

My Square Mile sources have told me that the AIM is very tolerant.

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Long Time LurkerPosted on8:10 pm - Nov 16, 2014


scapaflow says:
November 16, 2014 at 7:19 pm
——————————-

My thinking after reading Phil’s latest piece was that the IPO may be under investigation by a UK wide authority. If that transpires to be the case and the authorities do dig something up, then I would think that the next stage would be suspension of the shares.

However, as Phil has just posted “the AIM is very tolerant” I agree it is unlikely that anything is going to happen in the short term.

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CastofthousandsPosted on8:13 pm - Nov 16, 2014


HirsutePursuit says:
November 16, 2014 at 7:38 pm

“I will not speculate (or ask others to do same); but note that the STV piece does not provide any details of the alleged extortion.”
————————–
Thanks HP.

As you say we can only speculate (At least I think we can: On second thoughts perhaps not), on what the material was, what it was its intended use and who the individual concerned might be (as long as we don’t reveal any previous convictions).

We don’t know if it’s related to the detentions on Friday. However sometimes subconscious analysis can trigger a gut feeling.

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Long Time LurkerPosted on8:15 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Smugas says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:00 pm
——————————-
Given that MIH appear not to be in the best of financial health at the moment, would they have the resources to defend the HMRC appeal?

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scapaflowPosted on8:17 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Long Time Lurker says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:10 pm

I took that inference as well, but to be fair to AIM, (Christ, can’t believe I typed that :mrgreen: ), nothing substantive has actually changed from their perspective. No criminality has been proven, nor any convictions gained.

This is going to be an exercise in patience, as well an exercise requiring increased physical exercise to work off all the popcorn calories :mrgreen:

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parttimearabPosted on8:20 pm - Nov 16, 2014


justshatered says:
November 16, 2014 at 7:55 pm
How many Administrators have deliberately changed the name of the company that has failed to achieve a CVA to facilitate the company, who bought the assets, to assume the name of the old company?
And was this action beyond the remit of Administrators?
=================================
IIRC (and I may not) the name change was post liquidation and therefore between CG and BDO.

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twopandaPosted on8:22 pm - Nov 16, 2014


I do hope the Polis can clear up whatever’s going on once and for all
mtp

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Long Time LurkerPosted on8:23 pm - Nov 16, 2014


scapaflow says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:17 pm
——————————–

I agree that this is going to be a waiting game. We have waited this long. It does begin to look like the authorities are taking things seriously.

I am going to save up for a special single malt.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on8:31 pm - Nov 16, 2014


parttimearab says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm
0 0 Rate This

justshatered says:
November 16, 2014 at 7:55 pm
How many Administrators have deliberately changed the name of the company that has failed to achieve a CVA to facilitate the company, who bought the assets, to assume the name of the old company?
And was this action beyond the remit of Administrators?
=================================
IIRC (and I may not) the name change was post liquidation and therefore between CG and BDO.

**********************************************************
No. The change of name came before the end of administration.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC004276/RFC-2012-PLC/companies-house-docs

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easyJamboPosted on8:34 pm - Nov 16, 2014


parttimearab says: November 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm

IIRC (and I may not) the name change was post liquidation and therefore between CG and BDO.

=======================

It was July 31st 2012 with D&P doing the deed. BDO didn’t take control until Oct/Nov

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/05/rangers-football-club-plc-to-become-rfc-2012-plc-sevco-scotland-ltd-will-be-rangers-football-club-ltd/

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BarcabhoyPosted on8:38 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Long Time Lurker says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:15 pm
1 0 Rate This

Smugas says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:00 pm
——————————-
Given that MIH appear not to be in the best of financial health at the moment, would they have the resources to defend the HMRC appeal?

————–

MIH have been totally dependent on bank funds for years. Any decision to defend this will be Lloyds , who have been irresponsibly using public funds for Murray’s benefit for years.

Why is a good question ? Although I think we all have a pretty good idea of why

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redlichtiePosted on8:42 pm - Nov 16, 2014


If the SPFL still needs a sponsor have they thought about CrimeStoppers?

Kinda follows in the footsteps of SpecSavers….

Scottish Football needs more of this Armageddon malarkey (maloney?). Well done Alloa and our international team.

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pau1mart1nPosted on8:51 pm - Nov 16, 2014


did stv ever say who the rfc spokesman was who told them
“For the avoidance of doubt, Sevco 5088 Limited bought the assets of the Rangers Football Club and then transferred them to Sevco Scotland Limited so that all the assets would be in the Scottish registered company that is Rangers FC.”

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parttimearabPosted on9:06 pm - Nov 16, 2014


HirsutePursuit says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:31 pm
No. The change of name came before the end of administration.
——————————————–
Indeed, thanks for pointing that out HP, don’t know what I was thinking – apologies Justshatered 😳

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jean7brodiePosted on9:07 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Long Time Lurker says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:23 pm
___________________________________

I’ll buy ye a bottle of whatever ye fancy if the result is fair 😉

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wottpiPosted on9:12 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Any bookies offering odds on which one of the four will fold under questioning?
Plenty fun still to be had at this pantomime.

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essexbeancounterPosted on9:18 pm - Nov 16, 2014


scapaflow says:
November 16, 2014 at 5:02 pm
7 1 Rate This

StevieBC says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:59 pm

Confused.com. 😕

Ditto 😆
============================================================
Stevie and Scapa…please explain to me how this gentleman’s motives could possibly be a source of confusion to you both…after all he appears “Whyter than whyte”…after even after more all, he is a CA ! 👿
Me bad?

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nawlitePosted on9:26 pm - Nov 16, 2014


“The Sunday Herald can reveal that a report sent to the ­procurator fiscal in Glasgow over the affair before the detentions related to alleged “incidents” between ­January 2010 and November 2012, a period which covers over a year before Craig Whyte took the reins at Rangers but also up to five months after the Charles Green consortium bought the assets.”

Sorry, but I’m back to asking for clarification – who actually caused this report to be sent to the PF i.e. who actually made the complaint about these allegedly fraudulent proceedings? I genuinely don’t know (and I hope the answer is not sub-judice)

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essexbeancounterPosted on9:29 pm - Nov 16, 2014


PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
November 16, 2014 at 6:00 pm
25 0 Rate This

StevieBC says:
November 16, 2014 at 4:59 pm
0 0 Rate This

======================================
Is Phil able to elucidate the reference that both Wallace and Nash had serious concerns about Sevco and RIFC BEFORE they took on their roles?
———————————————————————-

Not in anyway that is currently publishable I’m afraid.
================================================================
…’nuff said (or unsaid!)

Time to take literal heed of PMG and TSFM forewarnings re comments on matter “sub judice”…and how I miss that big guy McConville to put matters into one syllable that numpties like I can understand! 🙁

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ecobhoyPosted on9:30 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Big Pink says:
November 16, 2014 at 5:53 pm

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and despite TSFM’s understandable suspicion of CtH, I get the feeling that Craig Whyte’s stupidity in letting libertycapital.biz drop is the singularity that will lead to some people losing their … er, liberty.

Had CtH not picked up that domain, and sat quietly as the mails came flowing, what evidence would have been available to the law enforcement agencies?
==========================================
I’ve never quite understood the CW supposedly not renewing the libertycapital.biz domain name angle.

The domain was first taken out on 12 March 2002 for 12 years which will have been paid upfront. So when CF started in 2013 the domain name wouldn’t yet have been back on the market through not being renewed on 12 March 2014.

We do know that it was renewed on 12 March 2014 for 12 months but as the ownership is hidden we don’t know who has owned it since then.

But even if it was a new owner from 12 March 2014 and that owner was CF how did he/she have access to or control the email account prior to 12 March 2014 if it hadn’t been sold?

I have another theory as to how CF accessed the info but just in case CF has any connection with another police matter I will refrain from commenting.

Paul McConville did a lot of stuff back in 2012 on CW and his business dealings both pre-Rangers and wrt Rangers. They are well worth reading and re-reading them has amazed me just how much I had forgotten about him.

I had a wry smile at: LeaveBritain.Com and his bullion selling website.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/craig-whyte-gold-dealer-leavebritain-com-or-the-tale-of-a-suave-bullionaire/

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justshateredPosted on9:30 pm - Nov 16, 2014


parttimearab says:
November 16, 2014 at 9:06 pm

No problem.

Like Winnie The Pooh, I’m a bear (no not that kind of bear) with a very small brain and it takes a long time for questions, that a obvious to everyone else, to come to the fore.

Was there a pre-determined plan for this or was it cobbled together after the “I bought the ‘istory” quote failed to coax the fans to sign up?

Was there a prompt from the SFA?

As I said above I do not know anything about insolvency practices but, after agreeing a sale of the assets, as Duff and Phelps did, why did they then call another shareholders meeting to approve the change of name?

Surely with a sale of the assets they should no longer care what happens to the new company but they clearly did. Why was that?

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HirsutePursuitPosted on9:32 pm - Nov 16, 2014


parttimearab says:
November 16, 2014 at 9:06 pm
0 0 Rate This

HirsutePursuit says:
November 16, 2014 at 8:31 pm
No. The change of name came before the end of administration.
——————————————–
Indeed, thanks for pointing that out HP, don’t know what I was thinking – apologies Justshatered 😳
—————————————————

No problem. The interesting thing is that D&P could only make a recommendation to the shareholders. Even though the company was in administration at the time, the name change still required a special resolution and was approved by the majority shareholder.

Which is interesting in itself.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on9:36 pm - Nov 16, 2014


Phil
Do you think it is a coincidence that Ashley restructured his SD commercial contract and gave up stadium naming rights just before the Bill moved in?

Could it be that he had legal advice to distance himself from the person with whom he made the original deals?
Could it even have been so important that he loaned another £1m to hurry up the new contract?

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ecobhoyPosted on9:36 pm - Nov 16, 2014


nawlite says:
November 16, 2014 at 9:26 pm

Sorry, but I’m back to asking for clarification – who actually caused this report to be sent to the PF. I genuinely don’t know (and I hope the answer is not sub-judice)
===========================================
You would need to ask the newspaper who made the report as they don’t state who it was in the article.

However I believe the article is possibly a bit too hot to handle or discuss for reasons I mentioned in an earlier post. It’s much better to be safe than sorry in these matters.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:56 pm - Nov 16, 2014


HirsutePursuit says:
November 16, 2014 at 9:32 pm
==============================================
The reasons for the name change were dealt with by Paul McConville and myself at:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/fun-with-forms-could-sevcos-change-of-name-to-rangers-be-invalid/

Part of the confusion over the issue was caused through faulty reporting by the SMSM.

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justshateredPosted on10:07 pm - Nov 16, 2014


HirsutePursuit says:
November 16, 2014 at 9:32 pm

The interesting thing is that D&P could only make a recommendation to the shareholders. Even though the company was in administration at the time, the name change still required a special resolution and was approved by the majority shareholder.

Which is interesting in itself.
_____________________________________________________

So a majority of shareholders and I assume Craig Whyte, being the owner, had a vote?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the plot does indeed thicken.

So if he thought the assets were going to SEVCO 5088, the company that he supposedly set up with Charles Green, and he had a vote to change the name to allow his new company to be re-named to the one that had just failed then surely that is a whole new ball game.

How did the Administrators suddenly, yet independently, come up with this special resolution to change the name. I’m assuming here that they have no contact with the owners after their appointment as Administrators so as to remain independent.

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