A spectre is haunting Scottish Football

From the TSFM Manifesto 🙂

A spectre is haunting Scottish Football — the spectre of Sporting Integrity. All the powers of the old firms have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Billy and Dan, Blazer and Cassock, Record and Sun, Balance Sheet and P&L.
Where is the football fan in opposition to these that has not been decried as a “sporting integrity bampot” by his opponents in power?

Two things result from this fact:

I. Sporting Integrity is already widely acknowledged to be itself a power for good.

II. It is high time that Lovers of Sport should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Sporting Integrity with a manifesto of fair play.

To this end, Lovers of Sport of various partisanship have assembled on TSFM and sketched their manifesto, to be published on tsfm.scot.

Those who love sport though are challenged not just by the taunts of the monosyllabic automatons in the MSM, but by the owners of our football clubs who have displayed an almost total disregard to our wish to have a fair competition played out in the spirit of friendly rivalry. In fact the clubs, who speak those fine words, are not nearly as outraged as we are by the damage done to the integrity of the sport in the past few years .

In fact the term Sporting Integrity has become, since the latter stages of the Rangers era, a term of abuse; a mocking soubriquet attached to those who want sport to be just that – sport.

Sporting integrity now lives in the same media pigeon-hole as words like Islam, left-wing, militant, Muslim – and a host of others; words which are threats to the established order now set up as in-jokes, in order to reduce the effectiveness of the idea.

In fact, a new terminology has evolved in the reporting of football by both club officials and The Succulent Lamb Chapel alike;

“.. Sporting Integrity but …”.

For example

“We all want sporting integrity, but finance is more important”

Says who exactly?

Stated in such a matter of fact way that the obvious question is headed off at the pass, it is sometimes difficult to re-frame the discussion – perhaps because crayon is so hard to erase?

This is the backdrop to The Scottish Football Monitor and the world in which we live. Often the levels of scrutiny employed by our contributors are far in excess of any scrutiny employed by the MSM. Indeed our ideas and theories are regularly plagiarised by those very same lazy journalists who lurk here, and cherry-pick material to suit their own agendas; regularly claiming exclusives for stories that TSFM and RTC before us had placed in the public domain weeks earlier.

This was going to lead into a discourse about the love of money versus the love of sport – of how the sacred cows of acquisitiveness, gate- retention and turnstile spinning is far more important to the heads of our football clubs (the Billys, Dans and Blazers of the intro) than maintaining the traditions of our sport.

However events of Friday 14th November have given me cause to leave that for another day. The biggest squirrel of all in this sorry saga has always been the sleight of hand employed instil a siege mentality in the Rangers fans. The press have time and again assisted people (with no love of football in general or Rangers in particular) to enrich themselves – legally or otherwise – and feed on the loyalty of Rangers fans.

A matter for Rangers fans may also be the identity of some of those who had their trust, but who also assisted the Whytes and Greens by their public statements of support.

Our contention has been that rules have been bent twisted or broken to accommodate those people, the real enemies of the Rangers fans – and fans everywhere.

Through our collective research and group-analysis of events, we have also wondered out loud about the legality of many aspects of the operating style of some of the main players in the affair. That suspicion has been shared most notably by Mark Daly and Alex Thompson, but crucially now appears to be shared by Law Enforcement.

I confess I am fed up with the self-styled “bampot” epithet. For the avoidance of doubt, the “bampots” in this affair are those who have greater resources than us, and access to the truth, but who have lacked either the will or the courage or the imagination to follow it through.

We are anything but bampots. Rather, we have demonstrated that the wisdom of the crowd is more effective by far than any remnants of wisdom in the press.

I have no doubt that the police investigation into this matter is proceeding in spite of great opposition in the MSM and the Scottish Football Authorities – all of whom conspired to expose Rangers to the custodianship of those for whom football is a foreign language.

I have no doubt that the constant exposition of wrong-doing on this blog, in particular the questions we have constantly raised, and anomalies we have pointed out, has assisted and enabled the law enforcement agencies in this process.

If we are to be consistent in this, our enabling of the authorities, we MUST show restraint at all times as this process is followed through. People who are charged with a crime deserve to be given a fair trial in the absence of rumour or innuendo. We must also, if we are to continue as the spectre which haunts the avaricious – and the real bampots – be seen to be better than they, and give them no cause to accuse us of irresponsibility.

This affair has now evolved way beyond one club gaining unfair advantage over others. For all the understandable Schadenfreude of many among us, the real enemy is not Rangers, it is about those who enabled and continue to enable the farce at Ibrox.

This is now about systematic cheating at the heart of the Scottish game (in the name of cash and in spite of lip service to sporting integrity), and how the greed of a bunch of ethically challenged officials allowed another group of ethically challenged businessmen free rein to enrich themselves at the expense of the fans.

Whether laws were broken or not, the players at Rangers have come and gone and are variables, but the malignant constant at the SFA and SPFL are still there. Last night, even after the news that four men had been arrested in connection with the takeover at Ibrox in 2011, they were gathered together at Celtic Park with their Irish counterparts, tucking into succulent lamb (perhaps) and fine wines, doing some back slapping, making jokes about the vulgarities of their fans, bragging about the ST money they have banked.

The revolution won’t be over until they are gone, and if they remain, it is Scottish Football that will be over.

 

 

This entry was posted in General by Trisidium. Bookmark the permalink.
Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

4,164 thoughts on “A spectre is haunting Scottish Football


  1. mcfc says:
    December 3, 2014 at 5:12 pm
    12 0 Rate This

    scapaflow says:
    December 3, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    Scottish Football needs a Robespierre :mrgreen:
    =================================================
    it doesn’t need a benevolent dictator – it just needs a competent administrator with some business acumen and the interests of Scottish football at heart.

    Respect to Barry Hearne – he could have told them what they wanted to hear, taken his fee and come back next year for the same – but he has no investment in their ulterior motives so he told it exactly as he sees it – and it really isn’t very pretty is it ? Bravo Barry!
    ===============================================================================
    Whit…he got paid….? 😆

    How many of the best contributors to this glorious blog would have paid that amount, whatever it may have been, to be allowed the opportunity to tell that lot what they really needed to hear?


  2. Big Pink says: December 3, 2014 at 7:42 pm
    ——————
    Here is a short clip of what Celtic claimed to be “a home supporter again attempting to enter the field of play at Tynecastle, this time to approach one of our players.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjgkVx7vvZI


  3. For those interested, there’s no scoring in the Petrofac semi-final, with only one team playing football; and with Lewis McLeod having been carried off with what looks like a hamstring injury, that is unlikely to change. No idea how many fouls TRFC have committed, but it’s lots, but Alloa have just committed one of their rare (in this game) fouls and the player’s been given the first yellow card of the match!


  4. Well, if nothing else, Ms Budge now knows what to expect, if she dares to challenge the Hampden Boys Club 😈


  5. Tailothebank says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    I know the media are making out Ann Budge vented her spleen on the Celtic supporters, as though they, alone, misbehaved on Sunday, so I’ll give you a link to the full statement:

    http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4010

    I suspect Monday morning was the first time she’s ever inspected the damage that comes with matches involving big away supports (regardless of the club involved) and was shocked by it. She will be well aware of the chants that go on between both sets of fans, and the vile language that some people seem unable to refrain from, even with women and children around, but now, probably after a long held desire to do something about it, she is in a position to address it, and address it she will.

    Her lengthy statement is only partially about the match on Sunday, and both sets of moronic Neanderthals are mentioned, and is generally a message to Hearts supporters that the behaviour of our own support must improve.

    You will see from her message she has no illusions about the size of the problem and re-affirms her previous message (to Hearts supporters) of zero tolerance to bad behaviour, and has banned the one arrested Hearts supporter from Tynecastle in line with this. Unlike the majority of our clubs’ top executives she’s spent many years sitting in the stands where she has had to contend with much of what she clearly abhors. This is no soundbite from the boardroom from an out of touch CEO. This is a message to supporters from a woman sickened by what she and her family have had to endure for many years just to be able to watch the club they love.

    The important thing about her message is that she has got Scottish football talking about the problem and has been prepared to put Hearts in the front line, making it clear it is a problem not just limited to visiting supporters.


  6. Big Pink @ 7:42

    Do I detect a bit of whataboutery?

    Some nastiness creeping into things just now and unfortunately it seems Celtic are the common denominator. I was pretty appalled at the behaviour of the Celtic fans when they visited our place last month – the carry-on at the minute’s silence was expected but some of the stuff after that was pretty close to the bone.

    The reaction to Ann Budge’s comments are all too predictable – lashing back rather than taking a dignified silence and dealing with Hearts direct.

    []

    I know I’ll get slaughtered with TD’s for this post but hey ho! Celtic could put an end to all of this with a bit more dignity.


  7. scapaflow says: December 3, 2014 at 8:25 pm

    Well, if nothing else, Ms Budge now knows what to expect, if she dares to challenge the Hampden Boys Club 😈
    ==============================
    Well we know what happened when the previous Hearts “owner” challenged Scotland’s football institutions. They changed the rules so that he could be sanctioned, even though he was neither an employee nor a director of the club. Fines of £10K, £25K and £20K (suspended)followed, the latter two levied by the SPL and SFA were even for the same offence.


  8. Allyjambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:45 pm
    4 0 Rate This

    Tailothebank says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    I know the media are making out Ann Budge vented her spleen on the Celtic supporters, as though they, alone, misbehaved on Sunday, so I’ll give you a link to the full statement:

    http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4010

    I suspect Monday morning was the first time she’s ever inspected the damage that comes with matches involving big away supports (regardless of the club involved) and was shocked by it. She will be well aware of the chants that go on between both sets of fans, and the vile language that some people seem unable to refrain from, even with women and children around, but now, probably after a long held desire to do something about it, she is in a position to address it, and address it she will.

    Her lengthy statement is only partially about the match on Sunday, and both sets of moronic Neanderthals are mentioned, and is generally a message to Hearts supporters that the behaviour of our own support must improve.

    You will see from her message she has no illusions about the size of the problem and re-affirms her previous message (to Hearts supporters) of zero tolerance to bad behaviour, and has banned the one arrested Hearts supporter from Tynecastle in line with this. Unlike the majority of our clubs’ top executives she’s spent many years sitting in the stands where she has had to contend with much of what she clearly abhors. This is no soundbite from the boardroom from an out of touch CEO. This is a message to supporters from a woman sickened by what she and her family have had to endure for many years just to be able to watch the club they love.

    The important thing about her message is that she has got Scottish football talking about the problem and has been prepared to put Hearts in the front line, making it clear it is a problem not just limited to visiting supporters.

    =============

    Well said AllyJambo, I think the backlash and usual whataboutery etc from some fans is a little ill considered tbh. But then the media as usual have manipulated the situation quite effectively.


  9. SouthernExile says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:14 pm

    There has been a fair amount of comment, or bollox as you describe it, on here about Ann Budge’s statement and that of Celtic. Everyone from both sides, and the neutrals, have acknowledged it’s a problem that has to be dealt with and that it’s time it was brought out into the open. That is the first comment to mention religion, as though the view expressed is all that’s required to excuse the wanton vandalism carried out by one set of supporters, while the other set are just a load of bigots deserving only derision. Clearly there is a lot of work to be done before Scotland, and Scottish football, can be rid of this bigotry!

    AJ
    That post was removed and we will await an apology before further posts are accepted. We don’t want this place filled with delusional nonsense. There are loads of other forums which thrive on that.
    TSFM


  10. Allyjambo…very good…I am sure her real motivation is to eradicate this nonsense from her clubs stadium for good.from all and any quarter
    There is a fantastic game experience and atmosphere at Tynecastle ..far too good to let sectarian garbage get in the way


  11. lagerbeer says:

    December 3, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    No problem with most of what you wrote re the Ann Budge statement and CFC’s official and other CFC-related responses, but why bring the Tonev issue up?

    And as for the stance on Tonev. Totally unacceptable and bringing the game into disrepute in my book.

    Most sensible fans (including on here) take the view that if he is guilty, then throw the book at him, but do you know he is guilty? Without any proof – other than the word of Shay Logan, who could well be telling the truth – does anyone have the right to brand anyone a racist?


  12. Allyjambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:13 pm
    8 0 Rate This

    For those interested, there’s no scoring in the Petrofac semi-final, with only one team playing football; and with Lewis McLeod having been carried off with what looks like a hamstring injury, that is unlikely to change. No idea how many fouls TRFC have committed, but it’s lots, but Alloa have just committed one of their rare (in this game) fouls and the player’s been given the first yellow card of the match!
    ——–

    Found a stream of this, Ally. Alloa from 0-2 to 2-2. Entertaining stuff, in an old-fashioned swashbuckling sort of way. Alloa play some nice stuff. No naughty singing or anything (audible , at least 😮 )

    Ok, fitba is OT, as you were …


  13. agerbeer says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:47 pm
     5 3 Rate This

    And as for the stance on Tonev. Totally unacceptable and bringing the game into disrepute in my book.

    Obviously I know as much as you with regards to what actually happened in the Tonev incident.
    However, if Celtic genuinely believe their player is being unfairly labelled a racist I don’t think they have any option but to defend him.


  14. Matty Roth says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    Cheers Matty, though my post wasn’t so much about the damage done by Celtic supporters as the need to tackle vandalism and thuggery at almost every club, or at least the larger ones, and, of course, as you so correctly point out, the way the media are twisting Ann Budge’s words, or at least her meaning, to create friction between the two clubs. I really do think that if Celtic could engage with Hearts over this and perhaps set up some joint initiative, then we might see an improvement throughout football in our wee country.

    I know that many see Hearts as some kind of mini Rangers, very wrongly, though we do have some bigots who are loud, but, with any kind of initiative between Celtic and TRFC being extremely unlikely, perhaps Hearts and Celtic could make the difference. Sometime all it takes is for two sides to put aside their differences to make a difference!


  15. I’m sorry that something I posted earlier (which seems to have been removed) was construed as of a religious nature, nothing could be further from my meaning.

    With respect, I don’t see how it could be construed otherwise. If I have misunderstood, please let me know by email.
    TSFM


  16. Well done Alloa. Fairytale stuff 3-2.

    What’s not to like about a team that fields a player called Benedictus.


  17. Arthur Montford style I report that Aloas quest for their 2nd in a row Petrofac cup continues.


  18. lagerbeer says:

    December 3, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    Big Pink @ 7:42

    Do I detect a bit of whataboutery?

    ____________________________________

    From me? How so?


  19. After losing a two goal lead in a cup game – in the least 18 minutes – and against supposedly ‘inferior’ opposition…

    Shirley, McCoist will offer to go on gardening leave ?

    With Durranty or McDowelly taking over in the interim.

    No extra cost to TRFC, and an opportunity to encourage the support to back their ‘new manager’ ?


  20. For those not fortunate enough to have watched the game, Alloa thoroughly deserved their victory. They played some entertaining football and scored three good goals. Showed a lot of heart to come back from 2-0 down. Armageddon!!!! How’s it go, SuperAlloawere…


  21. []

    Smugas,
    I don’t think you completed the original part of this post. and since it seemed (in it’s condition) inflammatory, I too it out. Please feel free to elucidate 🙂
    TSFM

    Just on the budge thing. Another way to look at it is that a problematic fixture has been allowed to ferment for reasons unclear. The most similar example I can think of that I have experienced is Aberdeen versus rangers. It’s a cracking atmosphere scream the media as an apparent overdose of neds on both sides throw vitriol plus whatever comes to hand and then they all go home. We don’t. They do. Reason? Because me and the kids stopped going to that particular fixture years ago ( until the current interruption, obviously).

    Commerciality of a fixture only takes you so far.


  22. Just one thing to note in the difference in tone between the Hearts and Celtic statements.
    Hearts dealing with the the present and looking to the furute.
    Celtic dragging up the past and whataboutery before finalling addressing the problem.
    Much has been said on here about dragging T’Rangers into the 21st century. Celtic could do worse than seek a New ‘New Firm’ ally in Ann Budge to help take the Scottish game forward.


  23. ianagain says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:25 pm
    4 0 Rate This

    Arthur Montford style I report that Aloas quest for their 2nd in a row Petrofac cup continues.
    ——–

    I was thinking of Arthur too @ianagain. Dear old Arthur would have loved that match. Very fitting with a vintage fitba stramash on the day of his funeral. #Stramashageddon


  24. Although I don’t know anything about Ann Budge, I get the impression that her heart is certainly in the right place.

    She could be lying, retired on an exotic beach anywhere in the world, counting her well earned money…and yet she has chosen to step up and help her club, and has now made a public statement knowing full well that she will get grief for doing so.

    Fair play.

    …I would most definitely be on the beach. 😕


  25. Hearts Statement: Excellent…. No if’s, No buts, stop this unacceptable behaviour now!

    Celtic Statement: Wishy Washy…. No excuses, stamp on this unacceptable behaviour now!

    It’s time to wake up, everyone is pissed off with the lack of transparency in the game so if these things are happening (and anyone attending an away game has seen it for themselves) then get it out in the open.

    I could list many negative things I have experienced about other supporters, it doesn’t change the fact that some Celtic fans attending the game have shamed the Club. Full Stop!


  26. Seems like an appropriate moment to remind AMcC of his quote in yesterday’s Telegraph:

    “I’d love it if this was our last Petrofac Cup campaign and I mean that in the nicest possible way,” he said. “It maybe makes the game at Alloa that bit more special. “Winning it in our final year would be the ideal scenario. That would be the dream ticket.”

    …. and well done Alloa in overcoming their bogey team after two draws earlier in the season.


  27. No worries tsfm. It was actually a response to joe the bookie which at the time was the preceding post but then Alloa scored and there was a bit of a stramash…….

    Didn’t particularly add anything to the debate, just a different perspective and I agree some sensitivities seem to be raised this evening. Never my intention to be inflammatory.


  28. TSFM

    Perhaps my post should be removed too. I think it’s best we let the matter rest and keep to the football and governance side of things here.

    As a Hearts supporter I am very pleased with the level of support on TSFM for Ann Budge’s sentiments in her statement and genuinely hope it’s the beginning of something better in Scottish football. On Celtic’s response, I think pre-Ann Budge, it would have been accepted in all quarters as what’s expected of a football club. Stick up for your own and leave things as they are. Now there’s someone, not afraid to speak her mind, with a totally fresh approach. Scary for some, I bet!

    Cheers


  29. Folks, Alloa can’t go for a second in a row win in the Petrofac: Raith Rovers won it last year, surely you can remember.


  30. Just saw an excerpt from a TRFC blog on another forum, and boy, it’s all Celtic’s fault, though they didn’t use the word Celtic, but I know that’s what they meant, and I wouldn’t use the word here, in the way it was used, at least.


  31. Ah so Rangers lost and all of a sudden it’s back to discussing individual results. Teams lose in almost every game played in Scotland and everywhere else and yet it only comes up here when Rangers lose. If I want to go somewhere and read fans of other clubs gloating at bad Rangers results there are many places to go; it is sad that the easiest and most sure way to see it is to log on to TSFM.


  32. Allyjambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:51 pm

    I think pre-Ann Budge, it would have been accepted in all quarters as what’s expected of a football club. Stick up for your own and leave things as they are. Now there’s someone, not afraid to speak her mind, with a totally fresh approach. Scary for some, I bet!

    Cheers

    ________________________________________________________

    I totally agree with your statement AJ and would suggest that it is because she is a woman and a woman of vision. May many of us bloom in positions of trust and power. We can all see what the powers that be in the SFA have done. How many women are in there?


  33. Poor show Ryan. Couple of posts congratulating Alloa, but mostly the chat has been re Ann Budge statement today. You’re way off the mark


  34. So rangers MkII out of the competition, some argue that it was Mr McCoist’s failure to keep them in another competition that unleashed the final cataclysm for Rangers Mk1.

    Are we to see the often mis-quoted quote 😉 , “Those who fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it” it finally come true? :mrgreen:


  35. I think we should guard against double standards on this blog. Up to now we have generally been mature enough to take criticism of individuals and clubs for what it is – if it is constructive and valid. When people are not constructive with criticism, or gratuitously abuse persons or clubs, the mods remove those remarks fairly efficiently.

    We have been calling for honesty and transparency in our game since the very first character was keyed into a TSFM page. Today we got that from Ann Budge. She pointed out unacceptable behaviour on the part of both sets of fans on Sunday, and her contribution has been met with a barrage of whataboutery – mainly from Celtic themselves in the form of a story on the club website.

    The references to previous incidents are worthless in the context of the argument. Hearts, and the fans responsible for those incidents were subjected (quite correctly) to uncomfortable media exposure in their aftermath. Nothing is to be gained in terms of finding a solution to today’s problems, by bringing them up again in a knee-jerk reaction to criticism.

    We also expect people on here to read the statement – and not blindly take the spin put on it by the very media outlets we profess to despise. Please take the time to read Budge’s comments before lashing out.

    Ann Budge did not extrapolate any mass character defect in the Celtic support today, but abuse has been hurled at Hearts fans (and their imagined collective character defects) in response. Maybe we should think of that when the same flawed logic is applied to Rangers fans.

    There are far too many halfwits walking around on two legs with football scarves around their necks. This much we know. However, the least of any victims’ concerns when being met by a drunken bunch of morons on a street or a bus or train or pub is, “what colour of scarf are they wearing?”

    The overwhelming majority of Celtic fans on TSFM have earned great respect on this blog and have displayed a high level of understanding when constructive criticism comes their way. Unfortunately when that criticism comes, people often appear from nowhere to register their horror at the criticism before retiring at a safe distance when the bickering gets out of hand.

    We’ve all been here long enough to realise that there is no anti-Celtic agenda at play on TSFM. Nor anti any club agenda for that matter.

    I hope we can all get onside with that, and look forward together to the continuing journey of Ms Budge 🙂


  36. Slightly Scottish football related, and sure to make you groan…mibbes…

    “…The [BBC] Hogmanay TV line-up also includes the ever-popular Only an Excuse…”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-30309410
    =============================================
    ever-popular…aye right, about 10+ years ago ! 😕


  37. Ryan

    As you well know every poor result involving your club is crucial as it threatens the very survival of Scottish football.
    It is also the case that every poor result creates a range of new possibilities in the ongoing saga of what the future holds for those down Ibrox way.
    Gloating is unsavoury but discussing the repercussions of poor results on here is surely understandable.


  38. Come on Ryan, you’re better than that. Man bites dog is always a story. There may be a smidgeon of ungracious gloating in there, but there is a huge dollop of Armageddon Irony. I think that is the main context of what happened tonight – and it will be chip wrappers long before the Ann Budge story 🙂


  39. Ryan

    Even Murdo Fraser has lost patience

    “Murdo Fraser ‏@murdo_fraser 27m27 minutes ago
    @Jamie4Labour @paulhutcheon It’s not a new captain we need, it’s a new ship.”


  40. Wottpi,

    That would be fair enough but none of the comments were discussing repercussions, just congratulations Alloa and jokes. No other word than gloating, and no fan of any other club here would stand for it every single time they lost.

    bailemeanach- you’ve got eyes, there have been countless gloating posts since the result, and nobody mentioned the game when Rangers were winning 2-0. You’re way off the mark, and if you can’t see that then you won’t see it.

    Having been very busy at work I just logged in here having seen none of the Ann budge stuff, just Rangers baiting / gloating. Begin reading posts from about 10pm and you’ll get my point.


  41. jean7brodie says:
    December 3, 2014 at 10:11 pm

    Totally agree, but not just because she’s a woman, she’s a genuine supporter as well, pie and Bovril type (maybe tea and packed sannys), not the prawn sandwich brigade! I think she wants to make the club better for all (not just the football or financial side), and realises the whole of Scottish football has to get better for that to happen. It all depends on how the suits and blazers take to a smarter, outspoken woman whether we see any improvements as a result of her introduction to the game. She will maybe find dealing with the day to day issues of Hearts are easy in comparison to the dinosaurs at Hampden and some of the other clubs.


  42. Celtic’s statement may be factual in content but it’s disappointing in tone, as if the club was responding to the SMSM’s reporting of the Budge statement rather than the statement itself.

    A missed opportunity, in my view.


  43. Allyjambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:16 pm
    16 1 Rate This

    Matty Roth says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    Cheers Matty, though my post wasn’t so much about the damage done by Celtic supporters as the need to tackle vandalism and thuggery at almost every club, or at least the larger ones, and, of course, as you so correctly point out, the way the media are twisting Ann Budge’s words, or at least her meaning, to create friction between the two clubs. I really do think that if Celtic could engage with Hearts over this and perhaps set up some joint initiative, then we might see an improvement throughout football in our wee country.

    I know that many see Hearts as some kind of mini Rangers, very wrongly, though we do have some bigots who are loud, but, with any kind of initiative between Celtic and TRFC being extremely unlikely, perhaps Hearts and Celtic could make the difference. Sometime all it takes is for two sides to put aside their differences to make a difference!

    ===============

    What our game undoubtedly would benefit from is for all senior clubs to agree a common approach to deal with such things and to be seen to be acting in a clear, strong way in those dealings. For all clubs to be consistent that this sort of thing can’t be accepted or ignored. And for all clubs to also be consistent about the message that all clubs have fans causing problems and its not which clubs these idiots claim to support thats important – its the unacceptable behaviour.


  44. TSFM,

    This is the first time I’ve ever disagreed with you. It’s not a smidgeon of gloating, it’s full on gloating and it happens every time we lose. 99% at least of fans on here are non Rangers fans, and it gets extremely tiresome. What exactly, about the threat of Armageddon, does this express that hasn’t been shown a million times elsewhere?

    TSFM: asking the questions the media won’t ask. Says it right there on the front page. Well the media will ask a million questions about this result and indeed about Mr McCoist’s future, so what exactly in TSFM’s remit is this gloating achieving? Very sad to me, and if this is the way the blog is going I want no part of it. I’ve been reassured a million times that the blog is not anti Rangers and I never thought it was until now, backed up I suppose by every gloating post made not on the financial results but on the results on the pitch.

    You all may disagree with me, think I’m over reacting, but I am not reacting to people slating my team, we are doing that ourselves; it’s the dumbing down of the blog to an anti Rangers fanzine I find abhorrent.

    Ryan
    I can’t answer your question if I don’t agree with the premise behind it. Rangers getting beaten by Alloa is big news given the gulf in resources between them. I can remember several occasions when Celtic have been dumped out of cup competitions by smaller clubs when the ghost of Armageddon has been invoked.
    I think you are over-reacting – and you clearly haven’t been following the main debate today if you think Rangers are on page one.


  45. Allyjambo says:

    December 3, 2014 at 9:51 pm

    As a Hearts supporter I am very pleased with the level of support on TSFM for Ann Budge’s sentiments in her statement and genuinely hope it’s the beginning of something better in Scottish football. On Celtic’s response, I think pre-Ann Budge, it would have been accepted in all quarters as what’s expected of a football club. Stick up for your own and leave things as they are. Now there’s someone, not afraid to speak her mind, with a totally fresh approach. Scary for some, I bet!
    ______________________________________________________

    AJ,

    Pre RTC, I would’ve jumped on AB’s statement as anti-Celtic rhetoric. Reading her statement without that baggage, I find it impossible to disagree with her.

    RTC and TSFM have really opened my eyes to the realities of relationships between fans of the game – and I like what I see.

    I am disappointed with Celtic’s response today, but like you, I am wary of MSM pot stirring.

    Budge’s emphasis on the family is commendable – and of course it makes perfect economic sense. Young folk have to be won over to the game. Given the fact that football is still steeped in the pub-game-pub culture, not moving with the trends and habits of wider society, it is in danger of losing the C1s and C2s that helped enrich the game in the post-Taylor era.

    Being a Celtic fan, I would always feel safe taking my kids to Celtic Park where the away fans are generally a small proportion of the crowd. Away games would be a no-no, and if I supported another team and either of the big two came to town? Not on your life.

    It’s a wider debate than that to which I have alluded, but Ann Budge has me talking about it anyway!


  46. Torquemada says:

    December 3, 2014 at 10:30 pm

    Celtic’s statement may be factual in content but it’s disappointing in tone, as if the club was responding to the SMSM’s reporting of the Budge statement rather than the statement itself.

    A missed opportunity, in my view.
    _____________________________________________________

    An excellent and accurate summary. Eloquently describes my own sentiment.


  47. Some would find the sight of ten ordinary workers being made redundant in the run up to Christmas, while one of the most inept managers in footballing history, continues to draw down more money, than probably, all ten of them put together, pretty abhorrent, but hey ho


  48. St. Mungos CSC ‏@stmungoscsc 38m38 minutes ago
    McCoist says his team downed tools at 2-0

    Barry Smith said his team downed tools at half 5.


  49. TSFM, firstly you have confirmed my point; Armageddon has been done to death over the years when big clubs have lost so by just bringing it up now that Rangers have lost (again) it achieves nothing more than gloating. I recall nobody gloating when Celtic went out of the Champions League twice in a month.

    With regards to the second point, I was clear that I had been at work and had not been following the previous threads.


  50. RyanGosling says:

    December 3, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    4

    8

    Rate This

    Wottpi,

    That would be fair enough but none of the comments were discussing repercussions, just congratulations Alloa and jokes. No other word than gloating, and no fan of any other club here would stand for it every single time they lost.

    bailemeanach- you’ve got eyes, there have been countless gloating posts since the result, and nobody mentioned the game when Rangers were winning 2-0. You’re way off the mark, and if you can’t see that then you won’t see it.

    Having been very busy at work I just logged in here having seen none of the Ann budge stuff, just Rangers baiting / gloating. Begin reading posts from about 10pm and you’ll get my point.
    ____________________________________________________________________

    Nope – checked back from 10pm and can see very little about it.


  51. RyanGosling says:

    December 3, 2014 at 11:01 pm

    TSFM, firstly you have confirmed my point; Armageddon has been done to death over the years when big clubs have lost so by just bringing it up now that Rangers have lost (again) it achieves nothing more than gloating. I recall nobody gloating when Celtic went out of the Champions League twice in a month.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I’m pretty sure that was dog bites man Ryan 🙂


  52. Ryan,

    Don’t let all the well informed and well written analysis of accounts, share ownership, corporate shenanigans etc fool you. While there has always been a degree of sympathy for individual Rangers fans my guess is the vast majority on here and RTC have long given up hope of a reformed Rangers and would be quite happy to see them go to the wall. Thus a bit of gloating is perhaps understandable.

    To get away from that, what do you think tonight’s result will mean for your club. Business as usual or McCoist and his pals shown the door etc. Keegan was a legend that Ashley was not afraid to get rid of and that was when he was liked by the fans. Over on the Bears Den they are not speaking of Ally in glowing terms.


  53. I’ve told a few jokes and put up a few pics as much as the next person in the last hour elsewhere but this isn’t the place for either, surely


  54. If the plan is for Ashley to remain in control
    The trade off now will be between the monthly income from higher attendance if McCoist is put on gardening leave versus the monthly salary of a new manager
    If the plan is for the Spivs take back control after the AGM

    Then
    The spivs will dis apply pre emption rights,increase the share capital,issue freebie shares to themselves and go for liquidation in Jan

    Ally will be publicly dumped and have to sue the Liquidator for unfair dismissal


  55. TSFM perhaps, but again I feel you are sidestepping my point; is this a blog with a specific purpose or a fanzine to gloat over those we dislike? The latter, on the immediate evidence of the posts tonight after the Rangers result.

    If I was to come on here with laughing posts and smiley faces every time Celtic, for example, lost, I would be met with a barrage of thumbs down and probably censored in short order. Which would be fair, given I just explained my intention. But as a longstanding contributor to this blog, my loyalty is sorely tested when the gloating you agree has occurred continues unchecked.

    Wottpi I think this result has conceived no new ideas in the Rangers support, they were there already. As to Mr Ashley, he will do what he wants, as Mr Keegan will testify.


  56. Good evening. Just back from a rather chilly Celtic Park. Enough been said about Anne Budge statement and Celtic response for me to bother adding my tuppence worth. Disappointed at some things I’ve read on here but it’s a free country. It does give me hope this lady has the wherewithal to speak up for what she thinks is right. So if another club is allowed in January to get players on loan from Newcastle Utd for nothing will she query the sporting advantage which is not available to hers or any other championship club?


  57. Gers supporters

    Dinnae get down, the Well Celtic games still to happen.

    Now that’s got me worrying after our last few games.

    Maybe wrong (hope I am) I’m quite sure Ill get pelters on here.

    Lets just see the comments; doubt it will be that much different than Alloa over the piece.


  58. Tell you what, biggest smile tonight will be Neil Doncaster. First call that he gets sacked in three years and it’ll be lucky to get 1/4 of a page.


  59. Benchmarking…….

    Its an interesting method of determining how you are performing against your peers. I doubt it had been mentioned before in a Scottish Football sense prior to Martin O’Neill arriving and using it as a motivational tool.

    However we should be using it more often when we assess the performance of Scottish Football. We have become used to the likes of Hugh Keevins and Ewan Murray running the game down based on their curmudgeonly Victor Meldrew type peronalities.

    We have also become accustomed to a whole section of media commentators promoting ddom and gloom and Armageddon based on nothing more than Rangers not being in the top tier. As an aside, i’d like any of the above to explain to me why Rangers being in the top tier would add a single fan to the gate when ICT play St Mirren or any other fixture not involving Rangers .

    On benchmarking I believe we should learn from the best and although our situation may well be different in size and scale , there are solutions which could be applied in our game based on what they do elsewhere.

    Taking 3 specific areas , although i will only go into detail on one.

    1 Matchday pricing. Generally agreed as too expensive. How does the Bundesliga manage to provide much better pricing in a markedly more expensive country ?

    2 Matchday experience. How did baseball manage to reinvent the matchday experience for the better. Could we do similar.

    3. The league and fixture setting. The most successful league in the world is not the EPL . Based on average attendances the Bundesliga is 20% better. However the most successful league in the world is the NFL. By a mile.

    The average attendances are over 68,000 per game. Thats way ahead of the EPL’s 36,000. The NFL also has the most lucrative deal in sport. However it’s not on attendnces and TV deals where the SPFL can learn from the NFL. It’s on league size and fixture scheduling.

    The NFL has 32 teams split into 2 conferences , which are then split further into 4 divisions of 4 teams each. This provides 16 regular season games over a 17 week period. There are 6 home and away games against your 3 division rivals, then a further 4 games against a division from your conference and 4 from a division in the other conference. There are then 2 additional games selected based on your record from the previous season.

    Its all done by Algorithms and is seen as fair by fans and teams alike. It may sound strange to SPFL fans, but it works, keeps variety in the game and removes the mindnumbing repetition of too many games against the same teams.

    We can’t be so arrogant in Scotland that we would refuse to consider something that works for the best league in the world. Here’s an idea of how it might work in an 18 team League in Scotland ( not for next season )

    SPFL Premiership

    Conference A
    Celtic
    Dundee Utd
    Aberdeen
    Dundee
    St Johnstone
    Hearts
    Hibs
    Rangers
    Kilmarnock

    Conference B
    Raith Rovers
    Hamilton
    ICT
    Ross Co
    St Mirren
    Motherwell
    QOS
    Partick Thistle
    Falkirk

    4 games home and away against Conference rivals. Thats 32. Then a further 4 home and 4 away against teams from the other conference. Total 40 game season

    Following the NFL’s lead , TV monies would be more evenly split. With only modest uplifts for winning the league and conference.

    The upside is the 18 team league most people want. A better chance of points gathering for teams with a poor record the previous season, which makes for a more competitive league overall.

    As evidence of this you only have to look at results from when we last had an 18 team League. It had a history of better competition, winners and 2nd place clubs from outside Glasgow on a reasonably regular basis.

    The numbers work for a 16 or 14 team league as well, and you get rid of the split but keep the play offs. You could also get rid of the League Cup and replace it with a play off system of the top 4 from each conference leading to a cup final with a healthy cash bonus from the TV pool money or a European place.

    The current league set up is too restrictive. It was too small pre Rangers demise and its too small now. We probably need to take a year with the current system and seriously look at a revamp. Battle fatigue is no excuse to avoid this.

    There’s an old cartoon of a King fighting a losing battle against superior forces , when his servant tells him there’s a salesman waiting to see him. The King says “I’m far too busy to speak to a salesperson. We are losing this war and running out of muskets ”

    The servant goes to the door and chases the salesperson , who just happened to be selling his new invention……The Gatling Gun.

    Scottish football can never be too busy or too fatigued to try something better !


  60. Actually, now I come to think about it, when have you ever seen Anne Budge, Barry Wilson and Neil Doncaster together in the same photo?


  61. Thinking out loud, but McCoist’s situation is very important in the grand scheme of things Rangers. There is a widely held belief that he is the beneficiary of one of the most onerous contracts. If so, what about these scenarios, bearing in mind that in a football sense, a blind man can see he has to go;

    1. The cost of paying his contract up will be mitigated significantly by the increase in the gate as Bears return – and the lower cost of employing an actual manager.

    2. They can give him a hundred grand, escort him from the premises, and dare him to sue in the knowledge that his winning a case would trigger an insolvency event. I don’t think he would dare, because if he sues, he has the Bears after him for life and even if he wins, little possibility of getting the cash?


  62. wottpi says:
    December 3, 2014 at 11:08 pm

    To get away from that, what do you think tonight’s result will mean for your club. Business as usual or McCoist and his pals shown the door etc. Keegan was a legend that Ashley was not afraid to get rid of and that was when he was liked by the fans. Over on the Bears Den they are not speaking of Ally in glowing terms.

    ———————————————-
    I’m sure Ryan can answer for himself but, as a fellow Rangers fan (albeit a lapsed one), I would answer thus:

    While I appreciate that McCoist is not a popular character on TSFM for various reasons, as a fan I can only think that he is in the same position as John Greig was back in the day. A club legend as a player, but nowhere near capable enough of being a manager of a same caliber. And at least Greig was managing on a similar playing field to the other teams he was facing. Whereas “Super” has a budget 10 times (at the very least in some cases) of the teams he comes up against.

    Ally is useless as a manager. He needs to go, simple as that. But I doubt we can afford his payoff.

    He is without doubt a Rangers fan, to prove it and to do the best by what is left of the team he supported, he needs to walk away. And take no payment for doing same.

    Greig at least came back to serve the club in some capacity, unless Ally walks, I doubt he will be afforded the same chance.

    He’s made enough money from the club and guys like Ryan who pay the cash to watch atrocious football on a weekly basis.

    It’s not often I agree with the Bears on the Bears Den.


  63. I always said I expected ally to walk and waive his compensation. That way he keeps his uncut salary to date and retains his legendary status. I hope he’s not falling into that classic ex player mistake of thinking no-one could do a better job.

    He’s served his purpose, he’s just come up six months short in terms of funds to buy the league he’s in whilst keeping the bears onside as the spivs strip the carcass bare. He should have just read this blog, we’d have kept him right.

    To be fair of course he also now has human nature kicking in to say, well hang on if we’re chucking money up cul de sacs it might as well be mine!


  64. On pure footballing terms the problem for McCoist is that in too many crunch situations when in control his teams have bottled it in one way or another and lost. Despite the good win over Killie at the weekend the bookies will be offering odds that a similar event is just round the corner.

    Have long said that the money will somehow be found to get T’Rangers back to the top but the manager was the one most likely to scupper things. While the main aim is still promotion tonight’s result can’t instill confidence in the money men that Ally has what it takes.


  65. Smugas says:
    December 3, 2014 at 11:18 pm
     4 0 Rate This

    Totally agree, here we have a genuine high profile promoter and successful businessman telling Doncaster he should be sacked and it will disappear in tomorrow’s shitstorm.
    You can come out from under the covers Neil, nobody’s going to hear about it.


  66. Allyjambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 8:13 pm
    Danish Pastry says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:08 pm
    Jake Cantona says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:17 pm
    Allyjambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:17 pm
    Danish Pastry says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:23 pm
    The_Pie_Man says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:26 pm
    Allyjambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:31 pm
    easyJambo says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:49 pm
    Smugas says:
    December 3, 2014 at 9:51 pm
    borussiabeefburg says:
    December 3, 2014 at 10:04 pm

    14 mentions above of Alloa from 8:13pm none of which I would consider to be “gloating” most are “one liners”
    ——————————————
    30 mentions of Anne Budge from 8:35pm I would say Anne Budge was the major topic of conversation?

    (Dates not included) but just do a “show on this page” search.

Comments are closed.