From the TSFM Manifesto đ
A spectre is haunting Scottish Football â the spectre of Sporting Integrity. All the powers of the old firms have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Billy and Dan, Blazer and Cassock, Record and Sun, Balance Sheet and P&L.
Where is the football fan in opposition to these that has not been decried as a “sporting integrity bampot” by his opponents in power?Two things result from this fact:
I. Sporting Integrity is already widely acknowledged to be itself a power for good.
II. It is high time that Lovers of Sport should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Sporting Integrity with a manifesto of fair play.
To this end, Lovers of Sport of various partisanship have assembled on TSFM and sketched their manifesto, to be published on tsfm.scot.
Those who love sport though are challenged not just by the taunts of the monosyllabic automatons in the MSM, but by the owners of our football clubs who have displayed an almost total disregard to our wish to have a fair competition played out in the spirit of friendly rivalry. In fact the clubs, who speak those fine words, are not nearly as outraged as we are by the damage done to the integrity of the sport in the past few years .
In fact the term Sporting Integrity has become, since the latter stages of the Rangers era, a term of abuse; a mocking soubriquet attached to those who want sport to be just that – sport.
Sporting integrity now lives in the same media pigeon-hole as words like Islam, left-wing, militant, Muslim – and a host of others; words which are threats to the established order now set up as in-jokes, in order to reduce the effectiveness of the idea.
In fact, a new terminology has evolved in the reporting of football by both club officials and The Succulent Lamb Chapel alike;
“.. Sporting Integrity but …”.
For example
“We all want sporting integrity, but finance is more important”
Says who exactly?
Stated in such a matter of fact way that the obvious question is headed off at the pass, it is sometimes difficult to re-frame the discussion – perhaps because crayon is so hard to erase?
This is the backdrop to The Scottish Football Monitor and the world in which we live. Often the levels of scrutiny employed by our contributors are far in excess of any scrutiny employed by the MSM. Indeed our ideas and theories are regularly plagiarised by those very same lazy journalists who lurk here, and cherry-pick material to suit their own agendas; regularly claiming exclusives for stories that TSFM and RTC before us had placed in the public domain weeks earlier.
This was going to lead into a discourse about the love of money versus the love of sport – of how the sacred cows of acquisitiveness, gate- retention and turnstile spinning is far more important to the heads of our football clubs (the Billys, Dans and Blazers of the intro) than maintaining the traditions of our sport.
However events of Friday 14th November have given me cause to leave that for another day. The biggest squirrel of all in this sorry saga has always been the sleight of hand employed instil a siege mentality in the Rangers fans. The press have time and again assisted people (with no love of football in general or Rangers in particular) to enrich themselves – legally or otherwise – and feed on the loyalty of Rangers fans.
A matter for Rangers fans may also be the identity of some of those who had their trust, but who also assisted the Whytes and Greens by their public statements of support.
Our contention has been that rules have been bent twisted or broken to accommodate those people, the real enemies of the Rangers fans – and fans everywhere.
Through our collective research and group-analysis of events, we have also wondered out loud about the legality of many aspects of the operating style of some of the main players in the affair. That suspicion has been shared most notably by Mark Daly and Alex Thompson, but crucially now appears to be shared by Law Enforcement.
I confess I am fed up with the self-styled “bampot” epithet. For the avoidance of doubt, the “bampots” in this affair are those who have greater resources than us, and access to the truth, but who have lacked either the will or the courage or the imagination to follow it through.
We are anything but bampots. Rather, we have demonstrated that the wisdom of the crowd is more effective by far than any remnants of wisdom in the press.
I have no doubt that the police investigation into this matter is proceeding in spite of great opposition in the MSM and the Scottish Football Authorities – all of whom conspired to expose Rangers to the custodianship of those for whom football is a foreign language.
I have no doubt that the constant exposition of wrong-doing on this blog, in particular the questions we have constantly raised, and anomalies we have pointed out, has assisted and enabled the law enforcement agencies in this process.
If we are to be consistent in this, our enabling of the authorities, we MUST show restraint at all times as this process is followed through. People who are charged with a crime deserve to be given a fair trial in the absence of rumour or innuendo. We must also, if we are to continue as the spectre which haunts the avaricious – and the real bampots – be seen to be better than they, and give them no cause to accuse us of irresponsibility.
This affair has now evolved way beyond one club gaining unfair advantage over others. For all the understandable Schadenfreude of many among us, the real enemy is not Rangers, it is about those who enabled and continue to enable the farce at Ibrox.
This is now about systematic cheating at the heart of the Scottish game (in the name of cash and in spite of lip service to sporting integrity), and how the greed of a bunch of ethically challenged officials allowed another group of ethically challenged businessmen free rein to enrich themselves at the expense of the fans.
Whether laws were broken or not, the players at Rangers have come and gone and are variables, but the malignant constant at the SFA and SPFL are still there. Last night, even after the news that four men had been arrested in connection with the takeover at Ibrox in 2011, they were gathered together at Celtic Park with their Irish counterparts, tucking into succulent lamb (perhaps) and fine wines, doing some back slapping, making jokes about the vulgarities of their fans, bragging about the ST money they have banked.
The revolution won’t be over until they are gone, and if they remain, it is Scottish Football that will be over.
RyanGosling says:
December 8, 2014 at 8:52 pm
19 7 Rate This
I must be missing a step here weemanâŚCeltic fans daub vile graffiti celebrating the Ibrox disaster, a Rangers supporters group issues a statement condemning this and yet somehow the Rangers group are in the wrong? If the graffiti had been about Hillsborough wouldnât you expect some comment from Liverpool fans? I also notice that youâre too busy having a pop at the RST to mention a harsh word about the graffiti itself.
———–
What was the actual graffiti Ryan? I heard that there was vandalism related to graffiti but haven’t seen detailed reports of its nature or the extent of the damage.
I read the RST statement and paragraphs 1 & 3 make sober points. Not sure why it goes on to name other contenious issues, which will probably only end up in a new round of whataboutery. Using the tragedy as a platform to indulge other perceived grievances seems equally tasteless, especially as it appears to be more pot-kettle-black in nature.
Danish Pastry says:
December 8, 2014 at 9:41 pm
I believe the story was originally in the Sunday Post but here is the Scotsman link.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/graffiti-mocking-ibrox-tragedy-found-in-tynecastle-1-3627711#
Danish Pastry I won’t repeat what it said but there’s an image at the link below.
http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/scotland/outrage-over-ibrox-disaster-graffiti-1.724311
The RST thing is consistent with the propaganda thus far – accuse others of that which you wish to conceal about yourself. In this case attack the establishment to cover for the 5 Way Agreement, licence issues, LNS and perhaps more to come, and attack CFC fans as a pre-emptive strike in advance of what is likely to happen over the next year or two, if TRFC survives.
The smsm of course are willing propagandists.
It’s straightforward propaganda, preparation for whataboutery and, paradoxically, accusations of paranoia, albeit in this case the psychology underpinning it is pretty dark.
None of which excuses vandalism of any sort by CFC fans, which as well as being wrong, just arms the smsm for a generation or so.
RyanGosling says:
December 8, 2014 at 9:48 pm
Danish Pastry I wonât repeat what it said but thereâs an image at the link below.
http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/scotland/outrage-over-ibrox-disaster-graffiti-1.724311
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Having lived through the worry over friends and relations who were late home from the game I am incandescent with rage that anybody could write such vile graffiti.
These people are (word that rhymes with Chum)
Respect for the victims and the unity of the city in the aftermath of the Ibrox Disaster is the only memory worthy of comment
GoosyGoosy says:
December 8, 2014 at 7:02 pm
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Never forget we are dealing with Spivs
=======================================================================
Goosy…your argument and sense of logic appears a tad tortuous and at times, for the lesser intellects like mine, not at all easy to follow to any “normal” conclusion…
However, I do feel, maybe something in my water, that you have more than just a passing notion of how this whole plot will unravel…!
PS but stick around fellow bloggers…I think this one has about ten years to run to fruition…with the “professionals” collecting fees all along the way!ÂŹ
Thanks @Ryan @Wottpi.
Sick stuff. I doubt very much whoever writes stuff like that is old enough to remember the moment they heard the news that day. I remember exactly where I was (Dunchatten Street) when i heard a lot of people had died at Ibrox. Oddly enough, my first thought was it must have fans having a go at each other. It was one of those (JFK) moments.
If the graffiti gang are known to Celtic fans, now may well be the time to name and shame. If they’re not genuine Celtic fans (as was suggested) then even more important to identify them.
The RST would have done themselves a favour, though, by leaving paragraphs 1 & 3 to stand alone and deleting the rest. Fans on that side if the divide have zero credibilty when it comes condemning the other stuff they allude to. And piggy-backing a horrible tragedy to further promote an agenda is kind of disgusting, too.
essexbeancounter says:
December 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm
3 0 Rate This
GoosyGoosy says:
December 8, 2014 at 7:02 pm
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Never forget we are dealing with Spivs
=======================================================================
GoosyâŚyour argument and sense of logic appears a tad tortuous and at times, for the lesser intellects like mine, not at all easy to follow to any ânormalâ conclusionâŚ
However, I do feel, maybe something in my water, that you have more than just a passing notion of how this whole plot will unravelâŚ!
PS but stick around fellow bloggersâŚI think this one has about ten years to run to fruitionâŚwith the âprofessionalsâ collecting fees all along the way!
=============================================================================
…”onerous”?….nah, he ain’t heavy…He’s my brother…! (it’s an old Hollies number!) đż
essexbeancounter says:
December 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm
1 0 Rate This
GoosyâŚyour argument and sense of logic appears a tad tortuous and at times, for the lesser intellects like mine …
———
I join you with the lesser intellect @Essex, but I did find that post by Goosy very enlightening. The basic spiv definitions were helpful. I’ve tended to think there was a master plan and therefore the big cheese sitting somewhere as the puppetmaster, but perhaps it is just as chaotic as it appears, with factions squabbling like so many vultures?
GoosyGoosy says:
December 8, 2014 at 10:13 pm
12 0 Rate This
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Having lived through the worry over friends and relations who were late home from the game I am incandescent with rage that anybody could write such vile graffiti.
These people are (word that rhymes with Chum)
Respect for the victims and the unity of the city in the aftermath of the Ibrox Disaster is the only memory worthy of comment
============================================================================
Goosy…my sentiments entirely!
I remember bumping into a friend in the city who had a ticket for the game he did not want and sold it to me. I went merrily off to Ibrox, not feeling the need to call my parents and tell them, of course.
I went to the game…left at full time, totally unaware of the impending tragedy…got home around 6.00 pm to my father…who thumped me (for the last time in his and my lifetime!) for putting my mother through an afternoon of agony.
As you say, the tragedy unified the city for a short period…and these modern day cretins come along and….
timomouse says:
December 8, 2014 at 5:12 pm
One interesting tidbit from my own blog that I felt was worth sharing here.
A couple of weeks ago, I took a look into the prospective South American takeover of Motherwell. Itâs an interesting topic and I posted about it, about the links to InterToronto, etc that are very easy to find.
Then I noticed something odd about the traffic. Someone from a particular IP checking it through google, direct, through forums, etc â essentially through any means they could, as if they were researching what people were saying about it.
That, in itself, isnât odd. Were you to be taking over a club, itâd make sense to see what people were saying so as to judge the public mood.
No, the odd thing was the location of that traffic. Was it from Motherwell itself? No. Was it from some far flung favela in Rio? No.
It was from Banstead.
Now, that may be that thereâs just some really thorough Motherwell fans in the small town that calls itself home of the Earleys, but when one frames it in the light that Motherwell were a pre-Rangers fancy of Craig Whyte himself, it would seem mightily coincidental were this rooting through of PR to not be at least related to the Earleys or even Whyte himself (for no-one knows his whereabouts for the time he spends outside court).
Iâm not suggesting that Whyte/Earley are directly funding or directly interesting, but it is plain to see that that is a link that is more than worth investigating whether it is South American wide boys or the Well Society who are involved.
I may well be doing the old 2+2=17 adage, but itâs some coincidence.
=======================================================
Timomouse
This the Nobby Solano rumours?
I kind of think 100per cent of Well Soc memnbers would walk rather than have these chancers on board. I certainly will. We may be skint not stupid.
If they turn up its me and about half the support offski.
StevieBC says:
December 8, 2014 at 4:12 pm
‘..A 72% jump in revenue from one client in a year is pretty good going.’
——–
You get the form of words you pay for, with a wide accommodating shark-like ( here we go with the fish thing again!) smile. The wordsmith at Deloittes certainly earned his corn!
They may let off flares have a drum that annoys St.Mirren so much they ban it but at least this lot have a wee bit of compassion.
From Steelmen online
“Motherwell Bois Food Drive – Saturday 13th December.
Motherwell Football Club were formed in 1886 when the 2 main work teams Glencairn and Alpha merged to create a club which could represent the town at a higher footballing level, and for the past 128 years have been at the heart of the community.
Unfortunately in recent years unemployment has been on the rise within our community and recent studies show 1 in 4 children in the Motherwell and Wishaw area now live in poverty.
We believe that as supporters of Motherwell FC we have a duty of care to support, not only the football team, but the local community in these times of financial hardship.
The need for a united community which strives to work together has never been greater.
For this reason we have decided to organise a food bank collection which will take place before this Saturdays match at Fir Park between Motherwell and Ross County.
All donations will go towards Basics Food Bank which operates throughout North Lanarkshire.
The aim of Basics Food Bank is to reach out to those in crisis with the provision of a food parcel and toiletry items.
We understand that times are tough, particularly in the run up to Christmas, however we would like to encourage fellow ‘Well fans to give what they can.
Where to find us – Outside the Davie Cooper Stand / The Well Shop from 1:30pm up until kick off!
What to bring – Non perishable food! The following items are desirable: tinned custard, tinned fruit, tinned meat, tinned fish, super noodles, soup, beans, life long milk, pasta sauce, instant coffee, tea bags, biscuits and any basic toiletries. Please note, this list is advisory but not exhaustive. “
Cludgiegate is more than likely the work of a lone markersman, maybe just boasting about his iq ?
Anyone old enough to remember that terrible day at Ibrox will be disgusted by this sort of thing.
We were listening to the game on the radio at my grans house when the reports started coming in.The whole family were there,enjoying one of those New Year parties that seemed to last about 4 days.My dad,a few of my uncles and other family members were at the game.They were obviously at the other end but you didn’t have Sky,etc all those years ago so info was sketchy,to say the least.
That was nearly 44 years ago and I have never,to this day,seen my mother,aunts,etc in as much distress as they were that day,a mood only dispelled when everyone arrived home safely.I’ll never forget that day,and anyone who thinks it’s OK to use those tragic events to poke fun at Rangers are the lowest of the low.
Scum doesn’t even describe them.
John Clark says:
December 8, 2014 at 11:01 pm
2
0
Rate This
StevieBC says:
December 8, 2014 at 4:12 pm
â..A 72% jump in revenue from one client in a year is pretty good going.â
âââ
You get the form of words you pay for, with a wide accommodating shark-like ( here we go with the fish thing again!) smile. The wordsmith at Deloittes certainly earned his corn!
=================================================
JC
Yes definitely have experience of “going up the tree” to evince a “different” opinion with these types. The partners are particularly easy to persuade that “this” of course in my opinion means “that”. A disgrace to be honest auditors who are advisors, tax specialists, consultants at the same time should be banned.
Martin says:
December 8, 2014 at 5:45 pm
‘http://www.unlockthelaw.co.uk/News/what-next-for-former-rangers-owner-craig-whyte.html’
——–
Thanks for that link,Martin.
And ecobhoy’s observation (6.31 pm)about our ‘not proven’verdict is well made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orIysW1r4tY
RyanGosling says:
December 8, 2014 at 9:48 pm
5 4 Rate This
Danish Pastry I wonât repeat what it said but thereâs an image at the link below.
http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/scotland/outrage-over-ibrox-disaster-graffiti-1.724311
==================
Hi Ryan.
The graffitti is undoubtedly disgusting and indefensible.
However I don’t see what part the RST have in releasing this particular statement and it reeks of point scoring and whataboutery IMO.
What would be helpful is Celtic Fans groups condemning poor behaviour in the body of their own fans. And Rangers Fans groups condemning poor behaviour in the body of theirs. And Hearts.. And Aberdeen and so on.
For fans groups to release statements of this nature about fans of other clubs serves no real purpose other than to provoke and continue the problem itself.
The other problem I think is that it only takes 1 single person with a black marker or a can of spray paint to write some graffiti but of course this is then pounced on as a “significant minority” or whatever.
Its tiresome to be honest.
I keep saying it but part of Scottish Football overcoming all this guff will be acceptance that there are idiots all over and they need ultimately to be identified and dealt with in some way whether educated, banned or locked up.
Playing the blame game isn’t furthering any discussion whatsoever that I can see.
Nice to see they are taking advantage of Ann Budge in their statement too and I do wonder what she would think of that given her words were about the problems found amongst all of the Scottish fanbase not just Celtic fans.
timomouse says:
December 8, 2014 at 5:12 pm
‘..Then I noticed something odd about the traffic. Someone from a particular IP checking it through google, direct, through forums, etc â essentially through any means they could, as if they were researching what people were saying about it.’
———–
This morning I listened to an item on Woman’s Hour in which some brilliant woman who was right into the whole business of internet and social media [ I heard of ‘Tumbler’ for the first time!] was describing what the situation was in the 1990s: only about 286 URLs registered. and today, some hundreds of millions ( or was it billions?).
And I thought to myself, where the hell was I when all this explosion of internet etc happened, and how did it happen that I can be so feckin ignorant about it all?
I just learned, for example, that my internet provider is some bloody outfit in Aberdeen! What kind of outfit? Who the hell are they? Are they making money out of me? Are they the folk who suddenly put radio masts up on the hills, almost overnight? Are they a CG/CW/ Sevco kind of shower of sharks (there we go with the fish again!) or honest, small business men earning a lawful crust?
What in heck IS an internet provider, and how did they get to be such?? đ
But as regards the meat of your post, timomouse,I agree that it is perhaps a co-incidence too far.
And I’ve incidentally and not connectedly been reminded of this from the past:
“FOUR of Scotland’s best-known electrical stores are to face court action on charges of price- fixing.
The Office of Fair Trading said the shared advertising campaigns by Glens, Hutchison, Robertsons and Stepek are illegal.”
Not at all connected, I imagine,with the report that a Hutchison,whose money lies in the electrical goods retail sector, and who is a confirmed ‘Rangers’ supporter, may become the owner, or a significant investor in M’well.
Interesting avenues of exploration for those of us now accustomed to want to see, in the words of a now departed former colleague and friend, the ‘far end of a far.” đ
The issue I have with the Celtic supporters vandalism at Tynecastle is that after Ann Budge’s statement on the Hearts website, the Scottish national press did not back Mrs Budge’s condemnation but instead tried to make Hearts and Mrs Budge the villains of the piece. That paragon of virtue Charlie Nicholas was overly scathing of the Hearts support while ignoring the elephant in the room, namely the appalling conduct of the Celtic travelling fans. Unfortunately as this was a cup game Hearts could not restrict tickets to away fans and had to give the whole Roseburn Stand for away supporters.
Danish Pastry says:
December 8, 2014 at 10:26 pm
‘.. Oddly enough, my first thought was it must have fans having a go at each other. It was one of those (JFK) moments. .’
———
And my thoughts,DP, were similar.
As a recent newly-wed at the time, minding the pennies and duly appreciative of the fact that I was no longer a single bloke, I did not go to the game. Friends and family members did go.
I listened to the radio, while papering, painting, in our (dearly remembered first flat: not, I’m afraid , in Tassie St, Shawlands, or environs, but in the humbler Leven St, Pollokshields.
The first thought,because of the history of that damned fixture, was that it was crowd trouble brought to the extreme, and the first selfish hope was that no one I knew had been injured.
My feelings when the true nature of the disaster became clear were akin to the feelings I had, when, in 1966 I was driving happily home to Glasgow from a successful job interview in Edinburgh, the first news of the Aberfan disaster was breaking. Total disbelief, shock, relief and guilt at the relief that no one dear to me had been affected.. and so on.
It was a deeply disturbing and upsetting time for all of us, akin to the mining disasters that many of our communities frequently suffered.
On the subject of third party ownership of a player…there was an interesting discussion on a talksport sunday program in which they discussed the unhealthy value placed on players where the money exchanged had nothing to do with the club and the player…one example given was that of Aguero to Man City from Athletico Madrid…the transfer fee was 38 million….the amount Athletico received?….11 million….where did the rest go?…apparently the list of interested parties for the remaing 27 million is a very very interesting list indeed…Athletico are the hot bed for such player transfers….and had their prize money witheld by UEFA for various financial goings on at the club…Falcao is another player Athletico could not afford due to their massive debts…however a company by the name Doyen financed his move…a company part owned by the agent of Jose Mourinho and former Man Utd CEO Peter Kenyon…
I think it is fair to say MA has been promised the proceeds of any sale for certain players to offset monies loaned….
UEFA’s FFP is aimed at such practices and the sooner it can enforced the better.
Lewis MacLeod is sevco’s potential boumsong, Ferguson, Tugay, Hutton, a cheap buy big sale kinda guy. Except… he has a hamstring injury, he’s only played in semi pro leagues,he’s a big fish in a wee puddle, he might not relish the challenge of another, more competitive league, money means nothing to him.
MA has hee-haw to do with his registration but he has everything to do with his value.
Thoughts on recent duscussions.
Graffiti
1 Any abuse directed at a tragedy is shameful
2 Graffiti , by its nature is the act of an individual. That individual could be anyone from an immature 14 year old upwards.
3 To condemn an entire support for the act of an individual , isn’t just stupid , its desperate.
McMurdo
1 Hate …….maybe some do, but more likely the description would be loathe
2 Loathe / hate the Club ? Again maybe some do , but more likely they loathe the actions of individuals in Rangers name
3 Feel free to try and understand how supporters of all other Scottish clubs feel when you have been cheated for over a decade.
4 Try directing your angst at the real perpetrator of the clubs ills. This is the same individual who was the architect of tax evasion, dodgy contracts, deception of the authorities and fellow member clubs, and financial vandalism based on his ego and desire for personal enrichment.
Paving the way nicely đĽ
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/livingston-set-go-bust-third-4773138
Barcabhoy says:
December 9, 2014 at 7:39 am
10 1 Rate
——-
Unfortunately Barca, this is being connected to other episodes of recent vandalism and I even heard a talk show caller relating it to the remembrance day disturbance. More whataboutery followed. Perhaps Ann Budge’s example should be followed by ALL clubs to highlight unacceptable behaviour from fans on the whole? Otherwise more alienation could well occur. In retrospect why should Stokes or anyone have to put up with abuse? He just accepts it and apparently only mentioned it because of the Hearts statement. It’s all unacceptable, but he has apparently accepted it as par for the course. African players walked off the field in Italy after racist abuse, why should anyone put up with it anywhere?
One of the most relevant calls to SSB last night was from someone with the Braehead Clan icehockey club and how they are attracting more fans than some football clubs. Big emphasis on getting families in at a fair price, entertainment for kids and making it a generally positive experience. Lots of basic stuff that fitba could learn from.
Football in general has for too long accepted arenas where anything goes. The idea of a family stand helps but only if these are placed far from nutters. Family areas have huge potential to add positive experiences for kids, bit of pre-match and half-time entertainment.
That normal fans are being treated with contempt by the authorities is now obvious, but if they’re being poorly treated by their own clubs and intimidated by certain in-house fan cliques, you could see the depopulation of terraces continuing.
According to one chip wrapper
– Today is the day for the “Tribunal” to decide how much
Dundee Utd have to pay for young Charlie Telfer.
I guess the “Tribunal” (as usual), will be independent of the SFA, so the decision will have no bearing on the legalities of the way TRFC Ltd are considered by the SFA as opposed to RFC Ltd ?
pau1mart1n says:
December 8, 2014 at 11:09 pm
Barcabhoy says:
December 9, 2014 at 7:39 am
A lone person it may well be but the ‘tag’ is for a group of how many (?) that may be attaching themselves to the Celtic support.
One person did not damage 100 seats in the same way I doubt one person in the Hearts section was responsible for any sectarian chants thrown Anthony Stokes’ way.
It only takes one act of bravado from these numbskills to have the others thinking they can get away with similar on future occasions.
The trend of vandalism of seating at away grounds is for all to see and this latest piece of nonsense needs to be nipped in the bud now (and before the LC semi), even if it is one bad apple.
Barca boy.
Your (second) number 3, with knobs on. Without wishing to personalise it at all that, the memory of 12 years wondering how they consistently did it, never mind explaining it to the kids, was my immediate reaction when I read about shopper Ally saying he’ll pack it in when it affects his kids.
Bawsman,
My immediate recollection of the coverage at the time, possibly Budge’s statement itself? was that the figure of 100 seats was reported. Sorry if that does’t fit with your agenda.
Still, if its a lone operator breaking seats, writing nonsense, singing in silences or whatever, it’ll be easily fixed by the support themselves.
Next.
Bawsman says:
December 9, 2014 at 8:50 am
=============================
Bawsman, Have you read Ann Budge’s statement posted on the Hearts website? I’ve no doubt that she has an agenda – it involves being hacked off at the poisonous atmosphere that’s become the norm at Hearts – Celtic games and having to pay to repair damage done to the stadium, which she seems to believe isn’t due to normal wear and tear and shouldn’t be happening. Is there any good reason why she wouldn’t think that such an atmosphere is bad for football, for her club? Should a club owner simply accept such damage as part of standard business costs? There’s a bad recent history (from before the weird Wilson/Neil Lennon incident)in this match and she’s trying to do something about it – addressing her concerns primarily to the Hearts fans, secondly to Celtic FC and perhaps to the wider football community too. Seems like a fair agenda to me.
Bawsman says:
December 9, 2014 at 9:19 am
=========================
Clearly you do agree with Mrs Budge that that kind of behaviour is unacceptable.
If you read what was really said Anne Budge was critical of fans on both sides.
Rightly so too and her family friendly agenda is right.
She will do something about it.
I applaud her for that.
Both sides have issues and ordinary fans, people like us who are fed up with all the old nonsense should stand up and be counted not play silly games on the margins.
Anne Budge has shown real leadership.
The kind of mettle we have been castigating all our administrators for lacking.
And instead of welcoming it we’re marginalising the real argument and retrenching into silos.
Bawsman says:
December 9, 2014 at 8:50 am
wottpi says:
December 9, 2014 at 8:40 am
==================================
100 seats?âŚ..REALLY!!!!
I hear there were NONE damaged. I would bet your next weeks wages that if even 10 seats were damaged there would have been a back page spread
——————————————————————
We have to break-out of this endless cycle of whataboutery when these incidents occur. And until we do then they will never stop and, indeed, could well escalate.
I simply don’t think it’s relevant whether it’s 10 or 100 deliberately broken seats. It should have been ZERO â
Obviously the behaviour of both sets of fans comes under the control of stewards and the police but only those who have never seen how quickly serious mob violence can break-out could fail to understand why police and stewards often can’t immediately intervene in a packed and emotionally charged football stadium.
So I’m afraid it’s down to both sets of fans to ensure that rogue elements within their support are effectively dealt with by identifying them or making their feelings of disapproval known. Of course if the culprits are a sizeable mob or the majority that doesn’t work.
If the statements made by Hearts are accurate then this wasn’t just a few nutters in the Celtic support who were totally out of order and that is worrying. At the end of the day Celtic as a club have to tackle this element and quite simply they should be banned from Parkhead sine die.
As to Hearts the same goes just as it does for every other team.
I have never believed that these orgies of destruction should be ignored and the tab simply picked-up by the club whose fans did the damage. That is just another bit of the cover-up designed to maintain a veneer of respectability which cover the actions of thugs bent on violence and mayhem.
The covers have to be removed and I commend Ann Budge for her statement – I did so previously and I am even more convinced now that she did the right thing and she didn’t miss her own supporters either.
As to the Ibrox Disaster reference painted on the toilet door. I hope the police throw the forensic toolkit at that one in an effort to identify the sick individual/s involved.
Of course there’s nothing to prove at this stage it’s a Celtic supporter and I say that because there have been some very curious alleged Celtic supporters turning-up on crazed Land Bear twitter exchanges attacking the rotteness of ‘their’ club Celtic. All very strange which smacks of a set-up IMO.
Who said it was hard to find a sponsor
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-close-netting-new-sponsorship-4772361
Dec 09, 2014 06:00 By Gary Ralston
HAMPDEN chiefs are in late discussions with a number of potential sponsors looking to snap up a bargain with Old Firm League Cup.
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Action Images/Jason CairnduffCeltic v Rangers is set to be the biggest match on the footballing calander once moreSponsors are lining up for a bite at the lucrative Old Firm cherry
SCOTTISH football is finally on the brink of landing a new sponsorship deal – on the back of a one off League Cup semi-final showdown between Celtic and Rangers.
Record Sport understands the SPFL are auctioning off a three-match package for the latter stages of the competition at a cut-price ÂŁ50,000.
Hampden bosses are in advanced discussions with a number of potential bidders, all vying to have their brand attached to what will be the first Old Firm showdown in three years, on February 1.
As part of the package the other Hampden semi between Aberdeen and Dundee United will be sold off to the same buyer who will then also have the option of sponsoring the final on March 15.
The news will come as a timely boost to SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster who just last week was lampooned by sporting mogul Barry Hearn for his failure to tie up a commercial partner for Scotlandâs professional league.
ecobhoy says:
December 9, 2014 at 9:41 am
I have never believed that these orgies of destruction should be ignored and the tab simply picked-up by the club whose fans did the damage. That is just another bit of the cover-up designed to maintain a veneer of respectability which cover the actions of thugs bent on violence and mayhem.
=========================
I agree entirely. This sort of nonsense has been going on for years, but the old boys network that runs our game just sweeps it all under the carpet, each club pays for the damage done by its own support, nothing is said publicly, and that’s supposed to be fine. Well it’s really not fine, either morally or even in simple business terms. What is the point of taking ÂŁ25 for a ticket from some eejit who then proceeds to do ÂŁ50 of damage? And how many people are simply not attending games any more because of the actions of these morons?
Ann Budge is an outsider, newly arrived in the very strange world of Scottish football business. Because she is an outsider, she imagines that normal rules of business and morality should apply. I have no issue at all with her statement, and I would like to see it followed by action on the part of every club which has that sort of element within its support, to root them out once and for all.
I remember visits to Tynecastle (as a Celtic supporter) from the 60’s and 70’s with great fondness. I never saw any trouble, and that was standing in a mixed crowd. Great atmosphere, great banter, and great football. When did it all change, and why? Whatever the reasons, something has gone badly wrong, that much is clear. And what is also clear is that if no one speaks out, it will just stay the same- or more likely get worse.
timomouse says:
December 8, 2014 at 5:12 pm
I may well be doing the old 2+2=17 adage, but itâs some coincidence.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Manui dat cognito vires â thanks for posting that timomouse.
——————————————————
ianagain says:
December 8, 2014 at 10:52 pm
I kind of think 100per cent of Well Soc members would walk rather than have these chancers on board. I certainly will. We may be skint not stupid.
If they turn up its me and about half the support offski.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Forewarned is forearmed – thanks for posting that ianagain.
————————————————————–
John Clark says:
But as regards the meat of your post, timomouse,I agree that it is perhaps a co-incidence too far.
And Iâve incidentally and not connectedly been reminded of this from the past:
âFOUR of Scotlandâs best-known electrical stores are to face court action on charges of price- fixing.
The Office of Fair Trading said the shared advertising campaigns by Glens, Hutchison, Robertsons and Stepek are illegal.â
Not at all connected, I imagine,with the report that a Hutchison,whose money lies in the electrical goods retail sector, and who is a confirmed âRangersâ supporter, may become the owner, or a significant investor in Mâwell.
Interesting avenues of exploration for those of us now accustomed to want to see, in the words of a now departed former colleague and friend, the âfar end of a far
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
JC – I think we are all suspicious of anyone who wishes to be involved in a Scottish football club after recent events.
I have been informed that Les is a Rangers fan by a usually reliable source, though his work history is not as you imagine and firmly places him as a Steel Man who from the link below seems to believe in helping his local area and its institutions.
I will dig further and report back but the confidentiality agreement is being very rigidly applied up to now.
http://www.uws.ac.uk/alumni/profiles/les-hutchison/
@andygraham.66
The same Neil D. who didn’t want poor short term deals? Now has a sponsorship stall at the Barras?
:irony: x 2
Off topic – but a bit of good news.
Tommy Craig has ‘left his post’ as St Mirren manager.
Good coach, doubtless a nice person, not so good at managing…
GoosyGoosy says:
December 8, 2014 at 7:02 pm
=============================================================
Enjoyed your post which identifies the various options.
However wrt to RR the deal was done a long time ago. The Rangers AIM Prospectus stated back in December 2012 wrt the joint venture company agreement between Rangers (TRFCL) and SportsDirect (where SportsDirect hold the shareholding voting majority on financial matters):
So put simply: If any of the two shareholders in Rangers Retail Ltd undergo a change of control or if a default event – including insolvency – occurs then SportsDirect can buy-out Rangers (TRFCI) at the set price of 50% of the profits of Rangers Retail Ltd in the previous 12 months.
Might Rangers decide this is the easiest cashless way of clearing Ashley’s loans – just let him have Rangers Retail. Hopefully one of our financial gurus can tell us what 50% of Rangers Retail Ltd’s profits are.
Even without a change of control or default event SportsDirect can still ‘force’ the sale of Rangers Retail Ltd to it should an unresolved deadlock arise.
I think it’s worth noting what the Rangers AIM Prospectus had to say on Dual Interests:
On here we are often annoyed at how the MSM put their own spin on events. We have also been frustrated by a lack of courageous leadership, of guts shown by administrators in Scottish football.
With the above in mind I would strongly urge anyone on this blog, as others have already done, to read the statement by Ann Budge “un-spun” on the Hearts website. To me it is fair in recognising that supporters of both sides were at fault, open and well intentioned in looking to address the issue. Her final comments sum up exactly where she is clearly coming from.
“I would urge Hearts supporters to stick with us and supporters of other visiting clubs to recognise that we want to offer a welcoming environment at Tynecastle where both teams can enjoy the matchday experience. For Scottish football to survive and develop, we need each other.”
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4010
There seems to be a big hole to fill in all matters at the moment
May be why the Mindless vandalism story is Still dragging on
Very important subject that it is
The people that do such things no matter what team they so called support.Will never see the light
Now onto more pressing matter’s
The DR doing there best to push
The look a Sponsorship deal on the back of the OF with a wee side note that it also includes the other Semi Final
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-close-netting-new-sponsorship-4772361
Oh and also their nice little story of how the SFA are now working to make Administration and Liquidation just a wee hick-up for every team
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/livingston-set-go-bust-third-4773138
tcup 2012 says:
December 9, 2014 at 1:03 pm
I wonder if we would be reading this story about a new Livingston not facing the prospect of starting out in the Lowland League if:
a) Rangers had not been liquidated in 2012, and/or…
b) TRFC were not on the verge of an insolvency event.
Interesting that there is no effort to justify this view from the SPFL. No effort from the DR to ask them to justify it either.
Anyone think, like me, that the reason for this lack of justification is…, there is none?
I wonder if Stewart Regan will be applying for this job?
http://www.odgersberndtson.co.uk/gb/executive-opportunities/opportunity-details/?tx_llproxy_pi1%5Brequest%5D=nNmroWpjaJajop6xj6aWoMulqWDG059npqqrz8zTfZukxZ_QX8fWod2jzaaZmZ9pkWtnnVqUpqhyy5-Y
If so, I hope he has better luck than he did with this one.
http://www.sportsrecruitment.com/jobs/details/1463
May explain recent puff piece activity and Conventioneering.
Re: Ann Budge’s statement.
Like most reasonable posters on here, my initial reaction to Ann Budge’s original statement released on the Hearts web-site was to welcome it as an open attempt to address issues which had hitherto been allowed to be dealt with undercover and largely unreported.
Three factors since, however, have fundamentally changed my perception of these comments.
Firstly, the media reporting of this solely as an attack on Celtic supporters, and for this perception to go unchallenged by Hearts FC. Whilst the press reports may be seen as spin, the absence of any clarification or response from Ann Budge and Hearts means that at best her good intentions have been waylaid by an agenda driven SMSM, and at worst this spin on events is actually what Ann Budge and Hearts actually desired all along. In other words, she has either been naĂŻve and allowed herself to be used here , or has been purposefully mischief-making.
The second point which veers me towards a more cynical interpretation of Ann Budge’s apparently fair, open and helpful contribution has been that her claims that Celtic fans’ behaviour was sectarian in nature, had not been backed up by any arrest data, Only one fan was charged with a sectarian based offence and he was a hearts fan, furthermore only two fans were charged with crimes of violence , again both hearts fans. In the light of this data , ann budge’s missive can thus, legitimately, be interpreted as an effective smokescreen, to take attention away from hearts fans and put it on to Celtic fans.
The third piece of evidence which must make reasonable posters question Ann Budge’s actual motivations is the lack of evidence provided to back up her claim of substantial damage to seats at Tynecastle. The initial statement implied that up to 100 seats were damaged and that there has been a frenzy of criminal damage wrought upon Tynecastle. To date not a single piece of evidence has emerged of any damage being caused to any seats at Tynecastle.
In the absence of evidence to substantiate her claims, and given its timing in the aftermath of a very heavy defeat of a bad tempered Hearts side against Celtic, Ann Budge’s statement could be seen, by some, as beginning to look not like that of someone seeking an open discussion, nor of a wide-eyed ingĂŠnue stepping into the lion’s den, but rather as a highly skilled, and deception laden piece of news management, designed to deflect bad news from her club.
I would very much like for that assessment to be proven to be wrong. I have, up till now, been extremely impressed by Ann Budge’s leadership at Hearts.
It would, in that context, be most helpful if Hearts could provide evidence that backed up Ann Budge’s claims of criminal damage and that could also clarify the wider message contained within the original statement, as being not just about Celtic fans but about the behaviour and expectations of behaviour of those attending all football matches.
Allyjambo says:
December 9, 2014 at 2:22 pm
5 0 Rate This
///////////////////////
Exactly đż
The attitude would be
Livi Who???????
Cracking headline in the Edinburgh Evening News today………….
“Hearts’ title rival could lose star man in January sales”
Some fellow named Macleod apparently.
Evidence 1 – Anne Budge cannot make a statement denying saying the things that she didn’t say in the first place. She may be naĂŻve but she recognises media manipulation for what it is. And for the absence of doubt, media manipulation, shock horror haud me back, isn’t celtic fc bashing. it is simply the following formula:
#
Monday – say it regardless of source
Tuesday – clarify what was wasn’t said
Wednesday – Discuss rebuttal of what wasn’t said
Thursday – Discuss the whatabouts surrounding the rebuttal
Friday – Discuss the implications of what wasn’t said particularly foccussing on any aspects that ramp up bad feeling, sorry atmosphere, for this weekends fixtures
Repeat ad nauseous.
Evidence 2 – My recollection of what she said (and watching I don’t trip into my own trap above) was that she wants a family experience at Tynecastle to build on. Elements SUCHAS sectarianism don’t fit with that on either side.
Evidence 3 – Fair comment. I will be very very surprised if she would mention 100 seats if it wasn’t close to that number. I’d consider that point more a lack of trust in the media in general than of Ms Budge in particular. Point notwithstanding, I think your hidden meaning here, and apologies here if I’m wrong, is that its only that large a number because its Celtic. My view on that is that it is one of a number of responsibilities you carry for being a large and well supported club.
On the League cup sponsorship,
Why would you sell two semi finals (well one and a half if you read the article) and an option on the final? Are they concerned neither side of the old firm (as was) will make it? đ
The Daily Record â@Daily_Record
Adjudicator washes hands of Telfer ruling.. by refusing to even announce their decision
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/independent-tribunal-breaks-charlie-telfer-4775716
Jim Spence â@bbcjimspence
Statement due shortly from @dundeeunitedfc re Telfer compensation decision. They are not happy it seems.
Let me get my head round this Iceman63 (and the thumbs-uppers), Anne Budge’s statement calling for an improvement in behaviour at Tynecastle was some cunning smokescreen. A smokescreen cleverly designed to deflect scrutiny of a home thumping, but also as a deliberate attempt to tarnish the reputation of an otherwise saintly Celtic support in order to mask the deficiencies closer to home; seriously?
This, Iâm sorry, falls into the category of rampant paranoia and is more befitting of the bampottery residing in some other, more febrile, fan sites.
If Anne Budge wanted an effective, hassle-free smokescreen, she could have announced the signing of Rudi Skacel.
PW1874
It also doesn’t bode well for her when she suggests buying Lewis Macleod.
iceman
“It would, in that context, be most helpful if Hearts could provide evidence that backed up Ann Budgeâs claims of criminal damage….”
Why would she have to show that evidence to us?
Dont have evidence as my phone doesn’t have a camera so maybe the behaviour and sectarian singing i experienced on the train home to Glasgow after the match didn’t happen either!!
============================================
And that brings me to a related point.
The age of those involved
Most of the perpetrators were male and female(?) below the age of 18…and drunk. Most consuming carry outs. (Strange you cant drink on the Glasgow/Edinburgh rugby specials but a Hearts/Celtic match? Scotrail being proactive as usual (dont start me on scotrail).
I think everyone should be very wary of what Ann Budge says. From what I’ve seen and heard of her myself together with comments made to me by Hearts staff, she is not one to be meddled with. I suspect that she will bide her time and make her response at an appropriate juncture. That might be next week at Hearts AGM on 17th Dec.
My reading of the sequence of events last week was that Ann was indeed appalled more than anything else by the vandalism. She may well have asked Celtic to come out publically and condemn those who carried out the damage, but Celtic refused to do so. Ann then decided to do it herself. The response from Celtic was predictable as were the comments from Stokes and Nicholas. I suspect that Celtic’s PR may also have influenced some in the SMSM to portray Celtic as the victim in this.
Whatever side you come down on in this argument, the fact is that Ann wants change in our parochial footballing backwater. She has already come out and criticised the self interest of some clubs shown at SPFL meetings. She has criticised elements of the Hearts support with her zero tolerance approach. She even implicitly criticised the Police’s approach to the misbehaviour of fans within grounds in her statement.
In keeping with her desire to create a family friendly environment at Tynecastle, then if it can be achieved at a reasonable cost, then I’d expect her to limit the number of tickets made available to clubs who cannot or will not control the actions of their fans at Tynecastle. Rangers saw their allocation cut to 1,500 at the last game. I suspect that Celtic will be next on the list. Hibs have been allocated the whole of Roseburn stand for the New Year game. If there is significant damage found after that game, then I don’t think Hibs will be exempt.
Of course, our parochial footballing establishment figures may close ranks against her, for fear of what the reaction may be within their own fan bases, but I for one will certainly support her position on the issues she raised last week.
I hope to make it along to next week’s AGM and I fully expect her to be asked about it.
Smugas says:
December 9, 2014 at 3:20 pm
PW1874
It also doesnât bode well for her when she suggests buying Lewis Macleod.
==========================
Apologies to my thumbs downer. Obviously I should have said,
It also doesnât bode well for her when she suggests buying Lewis Macleod, cheaply.
The tribunal panel comprised SPFL chief exec Neil Doncaster, secretary Tony Higgins and FIFPRO vice president Tony Higgins and met this morning at Hampden.
OK, who sang into themselves, There’s only two Tony Higgins like i did ?
iceman63 says:
December 9, 2014 at 2:30 pm
=========================================
There is absolutely no point in Budge putting out a statement to the media to correct the spin they applied to her original statement.
There is no way they will objectively report the second statement attacking the press coverage on the first one. They will just look for further ways to twist it to suit their agenda.
Budge will realise that and leave the matter as it stands – I would assume Celtic will require evidence of the brokemn seats before they reimburse Hearts and if Budge has lied or exaggerated the numbers that is the time to point it out.
Personally I would be amazed if she got the numbers wrong – but as long as there’s silence from Celtic on the issue then her version stands unchallenged.
She’s made a point which I think she had every right to make and I think the Celtic PR response was poor.
As to the sick toilet grafitti tagged ‘SMV’ presumably for ‘Style Mile Vandals’ I thought they had died out but it’s an area of ultra activity that I have to confess has never interested me so I could easily be wrong.
Of course there’s no actual evidence linking the Celtic associated SMV with the Hearts’ toilet incident and their menchy might simply be to lay a false trail.
I hope the police pull out all the stops on this one to identify the sick individual involved. Until then I will refrain from automatically assuming that person supports Celtic.
I commented earlier there are some sinister false flag scenarios being acted out on twitter sites associated with those pushing the illegal State Aid allegations.
And all this before the cup tie – gawd help Scottish Society as the game gets closer and the possible aftermath which all decent people will dread.
STV Sport â@STVSport
Dundee United ordered to pay Rangers ÂŁ170,000 in training compensation for Charlie Telfer move http://bit.ly/1vA3xkI
Topical joke(as I’ve a horrible feeling when we see the Dundee United statement we won’t be laughing)
When asked how the tribunal went Chairman Neil Doncaster replied I’ve no idea but I’m onto level 15 on Candy Crush!
Sevco’s disastrous situation leaves Scottish football facing tough choices, and we better be ready for what the governing bodies might do.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-coming-decision/
iceman63 says:
December 9, 2014 at 2:30 pm
It would, in that context, be most helpful if Hearts could provide evidence that backed up Ann Budgeâs claims of criminal damage and that could also clarify the wider message contained within the original statement, as being not just about Celtic fans but about the behaviour and expectations of behaviour of those attending all football matches.
————————————————————————————–
Last from me on this issue.
Oh how we laughed when Derek Johnston was basically calling Alloa boss Barry Smith a liar for saying he was intending on bringing on a striker towards the end to win the recent Pertofac semi.
Is the paranoia so deep that anyone who says anything against Celtic fans has to publicly produce evidence in triplicate.
There was unpleasantness and vandalism at the Hearts v Celtic game as there will be from time to time at other grounds and involving clubs other than these two.
Ann Budge’s statement could have been more hard hitting and maybe it would have been a good idea to provide pictorial evidence on the Hearts web-site for all to see. However my feeling was that she wanted to apply a light brush to the issue in the hope of moving forward, in tandem with Celtic, to find solutions as opposed to dwelling on what had taken place.
As I said when the statements came out Hearts were all about moving forward Celtic’s response was about dragging up the past.
Each time something like this happens it shames us all and we should be siding with those who are fed up with such nonsense and trying to put an end to such behaviour as opposed to suggesting they have ulterior motives.
The fact that there is even a sniff of this type of behaviour, which never or very rarely seen to happen at any other sporting events, should be enough for football fans of all clubs to hang their heads in shame.
Dundee United have been ordered to pay Rangers ÂŁ170,000 in training compensation for the acquisition of Charlie Telfer.
An SPFL tribunal met at Hampden on Tuesday to adjudicate over the fee for the 19-year-old midfielder, who moved from Ibrox to Tannadice this summer.
Telfer moved at the end of his contract but Rangers are due a fee under rules governing the movement of players under the age of 23.
With both clubs unable to decide on a fee for the player the matter was then heard by an independent panel.
Rangers argued they were entitled to six years cash for the player between the age of 12 to 18 at a yearly rate of circa ÂŁ35,000.
United meanwhile believed the Scottish Championship side should only receive money to cover two years since their liquidation in 2012.
The decision of the tribunal is final and binding at SPFL level.
Under league rule F11 any compensation must be paid “within 28 days of the date of publication of a compensation tribunal determination”.
Dundee United, who are believed to be angered by the decision, are expected to issue a statement later on Tuesday on the matter.
Not really a surprise that the SPFL Tribunal has apparently ruled in TRFC’s favour with regard to the lad Telfer. One of the signatories to the 5-way Agreement and proponent of the ‘same Club’ myth was hardly going to do anything else. I hope DUFC takes the case to CAS/court. This nonsense has to be shown up for what is – corrupt.
Unsurprisingly, Telfer statement is neither one thing or the other. Rangers claimed 6 years at ÂŁ35,000 according to STV, Utd said 2, and had offered 3. Result 4.85 years?
Top Cat 1874 says:
December 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm
According to this press report the decision is “final and binding” at SPFL level.
I hope to see a written judgement setting out the reasoning so that we can be sure that this was a fair outcome where the rules were justly applied to the facts. But for some reason I’m not totally confident of seeing this. But then I’m just a fan so why would the SPFL be concerned with my view?
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/302861-dundee-united-ordered-to-pay-rangers-170000-for-charlie-telfer-move/
Not sure I said or even implied Celtic fans were angelic. I know from personal experience how unpleasant and destructive many of them can be. There is plenty of evidence of Celtic fans ,of late , causing a whole array of disturbances and damage, but this has always been backed up by clear evidence (Firhill and Fir park seats being destroyed in significant numbers come to mind) and I initially took Ann Budge’s comments to be indeed an accurate account of events at Tynecastle: given the nature of Celtic’s away support, it seemed a highly plausible account.
I also stated that I should like to be proved wrong. Ann Budge has appeared up to now to be a breath of fresh air and has orchestrated an impressive, I would say remarkable, renaissance at Hearts.
Surely, therefore a release of photographic evidence of damage done or even an invoice of the costs of replacement seats could very readily be made available, to end the growing suspicions – at least amongst many, and an increasing number, of Celtic supporters – that this is not just simply part of an anti Celtic agenda.
Openness involves not just honesty in what you say, but a release of all available evidence to back it up.
It is the absence of response which fuels suspicions as to the motivation and accuracy of the original statement.
Without this evidence, then the positive message that she was attempting to convey will become lost in a welter of suspicion and acrimony: an inevitable consequence, I am afraid, , given the present state of affairs, lack of trust, and agenda driven politics at play in Scottish football.
I wonder, is there any scope for BDO to claim a portion of the Telfer fee for creditors?
jimlarkin says:
December 9, 2014 at 3:54 pm
…
Dundee United, who are believed to be angered by the decision, are expected to issue a statement later on Tuesday on the matter.
================================================
It would be extremely interesting if DU decided to go to the Court of Session ?!
Maybe unlikely though as their offer and the decision are not hugely different.
STV Sport â@STVSport
Correction: Dundee United told to pay Rangers ÂŁ204,000 (ÂŁ170k + VAT) for Charlie Telfer move http://bit.ly/1vA3xkI
RE Telfer
Does the ÂŁ170,000 get split between OC/NC?
Sorry missed PW1874s post
The bit I dont get is DUFC opening with a 2yrs offer as they deemed the club at Ibrox to be that age. Why then offer 3yrs
Its surely either 2 or 6 from a DUFC viewpoint.
StevieBC says:
December 9, 2014 at 4:11 pm
jimlarkin says:
December 9, 2014 at 3:54 pm
Dundee United, who are believed to be angered by the decision, are expected to issue a statement later on Tuesday on the matter.
================================================
It would be extremely interesting if DU decided to go to the Court of Session ?!
Maybe unlikely though as their offer and the decision are not hugely different.
===========================================================
I think the figure was carefully calculated so that it wasn’t financially worth DU having to pay roughly ÂŁ60K or more in legal fees to just pay the ÂŁ100K they offered.
One can only assume that the ruling is that service with oldco was remunerated to newco. That IMO is nothing to do with OCNC but simply that Telfer’s contract was sold to Sevco Scotland by D&P and that would effectively include any payments attached to it such as training compensation.
Personally I really was never sure that DU would win but I would like to have seen the written reasons for the decision. If my thinking is correct then I doubt that BDO have any claim.
However it could become another loose end depending on how the latest alleged police investigation pans out on how OC’s assets came to be sold to Sevco Scotland.