The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).
Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.
The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.
The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.
Scottish Football Monitor asks contributors to remember only a few things;
1. The site is not the domain of any one club and is open to fans of all clubs.
2. Absolutely no discussion with regard to religion should take place.
3. Posters should refrain from using foul or abusive language.
Welcome to The Scottish Football Monitor
Brenda 18.20 :
He championed the cause throughout. I cant remember Traynor being so put in his place for a long time.
Dr Cosgrove explained with great clarity why fans are upset. He aimed an arrow directly at the authorities before moving onto “a grave error of judgement” by Mr Doncaster regarding the tv deal. As he put it, Mr Doncaster handed Sky & ESPN his ace card by belittling his league & predicting armageddon.
He then qualified his points by moving into new media reporting suggesting the import of new media had mustered the fans like he had never seen in his lifetime. He referenced fans forums & independent sites which took him straight to RTC & his morphed comment. His next comment was to mention this site & how it will not be the mouthpiece of any one club or an exclusively Rangers bashing site. It will be a monitor for events in Scottish Football that will be analysed in reasoned debate. Traynor had to acknowledge & grudgingly did before picking up on the rude & abusive comments found on some sites. Cosgrove countered with a comment that newspapers were no different & then moved to the next topic.
From explaining the frustration of fans, to deriding newspapers, 10 wonderful minutes of national media exposure. I’m so moved, I must now find the corkscrew !
Loved his comment about Traynor backing Freddie & the Dreamers whilst everyone else had backed the Beatles.
Twas a good one Bluffer ! Many people praising him on Twitter just now.
riw1 @ 18:37
Thank you for your reply, and well said Mr Cosgrove 🙂
Danish Pastry says:
August 4, 2012 at 18:12
Bet Stuart Cosgrove would do a guest blog, if asked very nicely
,,,,,,,,,
Brilliant suggestion DP
And after SC maybe Turnbull Hutton and others who have integrity
smallteaser says:
The offence happened in a pre season friendly.
Its a bit like two yellow cards in a Scottish Cup tie lead to a Scottish Cup tie suspension, not a league game. Who do you think you are, Hugh Dallas?
—————————————————————————-
Ha ha ha… See you assumed I would know that when I haven’t any interest in Celtic or other SPL clubs. (Nor Div 3 clubs either btw). However I can see a reason for them doing that … offences in friendlies are still football offences and to allow a suspension to be played out in a friendly makes a punishment pretty meaningless – unless you argue that offences in friendlies are lesser offences than if they happen in league or cup games.
Sorry to support the SFA on this one as they do seem to have been getting an awful lot wrong recently.
I do hope, for his sake that the SPL chairpersons sanctioned Doncasters TV deal.
I think its been well stablished on RTC in the past that it was poor value..
To return with an even worse result (mainly due to his own rubbishing coments) is unscoscionable and should be rejected.
Its my wee rant but why oh why oh why with so many freelancers unemployed in TV are we not doing this ourself?
Proud creative Scotland and all that and we let the Murdochs call the tune.
Im scunnered.
Brenda 19.05 :
This blog is not even a week old. To get such publicity is outstanding when you compare against the fact MSM barely mentions established blogs or new media at all. Not even in a derogatory sense. The good Doctor has ensured several thousand people will now have a peek. If we maintain the ideals of RTC, I think these new viewers will like what they read.
Danish has suggested we contact & ask him to write a piece. First class idea.
Missed the online version of Traynor v Cosgrove but hope to catch up in due course on the iPlayer.
Just wanted to say that if the way Aberdeen played today was indicative of the new future in the SPL, then bring it on.
Really enjoyed the game and here’s hoping to a much closer season than the doom-mongers are predicting.
A Sevco-free zone; it’s the way forward!
4,800 including 500 ‘well at Ross county(and probably quite a few of them for Athens). good crowd.
Armaggedon naw.
In fact not too shaby:
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=home_statistics
Nil Sin 19.25 :
As a life long dandy, can you give us a decent pair of goalies gloves please ? Size 23 should do 😉
I wrote the following having stepped out of the car after a long drive. Halfway through typing this post I realised many people are thinking the same. When I’d finished typing I saw Danish had already made a much better suggestion, but anyway, here goes.
I believe one of the purposes of this sight to be to monitor the MSM as well as the Scottish football authorities. If so, then it is right to acknowledge the adherence to journalistic accuracy and the highly articulate and intelligent contribution to the current debates made by Stuart Cosgrove.
He is a highly educated individual, so it should come as no surprise that he is perfectly capable of insight and coherent argument. (His intellect is masked ever so slightly by his faux working class patois and affected (slightly patronising?) “common touch”.)
Should Scottish Football Monitor recognise achievement in Scottish Football journalism by giving an annual Scottish Football Monitor Award for Best Scottish Football Writer or Broadcaster or both?
I am sure adequate funds could be secured to secure a hotel function room and buy a tankard (a bam pot if you will) inscribed with” SFM Football Journalist of the Year”. This would be an award worth winning as it would be decided by fans of football and fans of good sports writing and broadcasting.
We could also have a “Succulent Lamb” award for the most toadying, sycophantic or dishonest piece on Scottish football. Then again, why bother since Jabba would get it every year?
Better maybe to have a Succulent Lamb Hall of Fame where succulent lamb journalists and their meretricious pieces are highlighted and held up to internet bampot ridicule.
As a side note, we can all say what we like about Jabba, but he was shrewd enough to have Cosgrove on his show. Radio Scotland wiped the floor with Clyde tonight, ratings-wise. I am told Clyde had no calls for forty minutes at one stage.
Domaine Jessiaume says:
August 4, 2012 at 19:45
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I wrote the following
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DJ
Excellent idea.
I think I dont know who may win.
(maybes a poster on here but lets see)
Jamie Langfield just posted on his twitter account :
” I f***** up, deserve every bit of criticism & abuse everyone is giving me. I apologise. Sorry”.
The lad made a mistake. Outfield it would be forgotten, in goal, not so. He shouldn’t be abused, his tweet demonstrate’s his contrition.
“Sight” should read “site” at 19.45. I did say it was a long drive…
Today’s attendances
1 Celtic 48251
2 Heart of Midlothian 13022
3 Kilmarnock 6523
4 Ross County 4828
5 St Mirren 4104
Domaine Jessiaume says:
August 4, 2012 at 19:45
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DJ, does this mean tonight’s belter of a show was a one-off? I was hoping that someone at the BBC had seen sense and put on a real journalist for balance. If it goes back to the normal Traynor/English format, tonight would be the last time I tuned in. I was so pleased to hear the viewpoint of the typical fan being represented and the voice of the MSM being challenged.
If the ratings scenario is correct, BBC Scotland would be shooting themselves in the foot.
DJ 19.45 :
I agree with much you say but not the belittling part. If we aspire to any kind of prestige, I believe our purpose should be to analyse, inform & lobby. Not to ridicule, otherwise we may be the one’s ostracised.
Making an award to the top impartial football journalist as voted by SFM contributors will be enough. In making the award, we will be declaring why we have made the award. People can draw their own conclusions from that. It’s a great idea but I proffer a mature stance & a little caution.
Quick message of thanks to everyone who has volunteered their time to help in various ways around the site. I haven’t had the time to reply to everyone yet, but I will attempt to do so in the next few days. There are less jobs to do than people who have volunteered, so I hope we have a big subs bench moving forward.
I do think we need to have a more collegiate model for this site. What RTC brought to the blogosphere was unique, and far in excess of the mere provision of a platform for the rest of us. There are few individuals who could lead the debate and command repect in the same way. I hope that involving more people will help.
Asking Stuart Cosgrove (and Jim Spence) to do something has been on my list since the day we started, but I think we have to establish our credentials first. Seems to me that the first blog posts should come from those who have been at the forefront of the RTC blog as either sources of information or forensic analysts of the murky depths of business, law and accounatancy. That is the approach I am planning for now – unless of course this post gets multiple thumbs-down.
DJ
I do like your idea of having MSM awards. The logistics of finding the recipient of the Bam Pot and the Leggo of Lamb would be interesting though!
Boy, didn’t Stuart Cosgrove really get to the nub of things, powerfully and incontrovertibly insisting that the administration tried every illicit trick to favour the club that used to be in the SPL, AND that they are still trying to do so under the guise of ‘league reconstruction’.
Although he had a particular go at the two CEOs, he very properly pointed out that they cannot act without the support of some powerful hidden hands among the blazers.
Whose hands are they, is the question, and what murky levers of power do they control, that empowers the very officers appointed to administer and uphold the Rules to blatantly disregard those Rules and lie about it? To talk blithely about ‘drawing lines under a difficult time for everybody’ and the ‘need to move on’ ( Lord, how I detest that expression).
With powerful media men like Cosgrove and Alex T on the side of Truth ( the same side as the now increasingly recognised and feared ‘internet bampots’) , the answer to those questions will emerge, sooner or later.
Because once one strand of a web of lies and half-truths has been unpicked ( and a number of strands have been unpicked already) the whole fabric is terminally weakened.
We must prevent the poisonous spiders from spinning a secondary web.
JC 20.17 :
Great post but now you should sook up to Queens Park fans 😉 !
There’s been quite a few excellent suggestions amongst the general chatter (and I admit I’m usually just part of the chatter) however they’re likely to get lost in the noise …. how about some regular collection of the best with maybe a poll on which to pursue further? Losing suggestions needn’t disappear, just become part of a later poll further along the line. Polls to be followed up with suggestions on how to pursue action.
Haven’t thought the above out much, just a suggestion for a way to get some focus. Others can maybe develop the vague thought into something more substantial.
A few weeks ago I resolved to stop listening to Your Call, SSB and having a free peek at the MSM headlines in Asda
It feels rather good
Like the opposite of withdrawal symptoms
Im about to order my 10 year work award. Vintage champagne. At 100 quid a go.
Ill be drinking it when it arrives to celebrate all who Tuped over and all the wonderfull guys and galls who went before.
Power to you elbow.
P.S. Can you take me out of moderation, TSFM? I was hoping to TUPE over…..I remain the same Araminta Moonbeam.
OK, trying this post again as I spotted the offending lettering, which led to being put in limbo…
___________________________________________
Been out in the sunshine all day and didn’t listen to Radio Shortbread on the way home – am reluctant to return to it whilst J. Traynor (who has been wrong on just about every call he has made over the last few months), is still given unfettered access to the airwaves. Glad to hear he was countered by the much more sensible S. Cosgrove – interesting editorial call there by El Beeb.
Also surprising news about Clyde, but given the utter nonsense that was being spouted last time I had this misfortune to listen, its well past its sell-by date. Will it go the same way as Roughie and DJ on RR? Jim Delahvnt on Twitter always seems much more scathing and better informed than most about the Rangers saga, so it would be a shame if he lost his gig. I’d happily see the back of Keevins et al as pundits, though.
riw1 says:
August 4, 2012 at 20:26
‘JC 20.17 :
Great post but now you should sook up to Queens Park fans 😉 !’
———-
I’ve had the greatest respect for QP since I was metaphorically belted by , I think, the mother- or perhaps an aunt – of a certain Mackay of said team for an injudicious remark I made in the staff-room in 1963! Metaphorically? She damn near used her Lochgelly on me.
Let’s hear it for the ( temporarily homeless) Spiders! 🙂
Vega says:
August 4, 2012 at 18:27
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Brenda,
Not much as it was a defence of Internet Bampots in general but he mentioned that this weekend RTC had morphed into TSFM.
If I try hard enough I will remember to call him Stuart…
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Vega…try as hard as you like, but may I respectfully suggest that in the meantime, he is referred to as “Mr”…?
Not many individuals in the MSM currently, or in the immediate past, have done anything to earn such respect…!
Goosy says:
August 4, 2012 at 19:16
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Danish Pastry says:
August 4, 2012 at 18:12
Bet Stuart Cosgrove would do a guest blog, if asked very nicely
,,,,,,,,,
Brilliant suggestion DP
And after SC maybe Turnbull Hutton and others who have integrity
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Goosy…do remind me again of the aged comedian who referred to integrity along the lines of…”…if I hear of sporting intrgrity again…”….!
I suggest that the concept be taken as a “given”…or a “commandment” for this site…spawned of course by RTC…to whom again , many thanks.
Vega says:
August 4, 2012 at 18:07
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By Tam needless to say. Jim just thinks we’re rude to him.
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Vega…does that means he qualifies to be “paranoid”…?
john clarke says:
August 4, 2012 at 20:45
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riw1 says:
August 4, 2012 at 20:26
‘JC 20.17 :
Great post but now you should sook up to Queens Park fans !’
———-
I’ve had the greatest respect for QP since I was metaphorically belted by , I think, the mother- or perhaps an aunt – of a certain Mackay of said team for an injudicious remark I made in the staff-room in 1963! Metaphorically? She damn near used her Lochgelly on me.
Let’s hear it for the ( temporarily homeless) Spiders!
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JC…pray elaborate…”injudicious remark”…from the most mellow poster on this blog?…(sook…sook!)
May I ask which staff room?….sorry a tad OT tonight…but I only have Baileys as my “digestif”…where is JFL when I need his support..?…has he not morphed over to TSMC…?
nil sin labore says:
August 4, 2012 at 19:25
http://www.4shared.com/mp3/I8gXm6Bk/Your_call.html , courtesy MK Ultra on CM
I like the idea of guest posts from the likes of Stuart Cosgrove – I think he could give some interesting insights into the workings of the mainstream media.
As a laugh, could a comedy angle could be pursued by asking Traynor for a contribution – perhaps on the subject of ‘Investigative Journalism – A Masterclass’ ?
TSFM 20.25 :
I’m not disagreeing, DJ has a great idea. I’m merely suggesting a considered approach is likely to bring greater benefit. You & others may disagree as is your right.This is simply how I see it.
Paulsatim @2058
You’re a gent sir!
Me and Mrs NLS shall listen at our leisure, once the Olympics has subsided for the evening.
Can’t wait!
John Clarke 20.45 :
Would that be the painful memory that a certain J. Dick of Lochgelly used to bring ? Bang goes my anonymity of youth !
Essex beancounter says:
August 4, 2012 at 20:58
‘…..May I ask which staff room?….’
—
Oh, I suppose there are gey few of that staff-room that would remember me, and they’re quite possibly a’ deid except maybe the lovely Catherine..and the even more lovely (oops, nearly acted as injudiciously as Paris there!) so I can get away with mentioning Baillieston.
Domaine Jessiaume says:
August 4, 2012 at 19:45(Edit)
As a side note, we can all say what we like about Jabba, but he was shrewd enough to have Cosgrove on his show.
============================================================
Let us be clear here. It is not Traynor’s show. It is a BBC show. The producers have put Stuart Cosgrove on because they recognise that something has changed. Traynor’s nonsense is, as all of us here know, not good enough anymore. Traynor has a contract with the BBC and, hopefully, until that contract ends his views will be tempered by a voice representing the new reality of Scottish football fans i.e. you guys.
Traynor was uncomfortable from the start. Respect for Cosgrove, he didn’t let Traynor get away with anything. Tonight Traynor (and the MSM that he is at the rotton core of) will know that the Internet Bampots, or Keyboard Warriors as the chairmao of Annan Athletic prefers to call you, are the present and future voice of our game.
Real Radio have chucked it. Clyde are looking at a corpse and can’t find a pulse. The producers of Your Call have embraced the change, let’s hope they keep their finger on the pulse.
riw1 says:
August 4, 2012 at 21:18
—
Yes, all salt-and- vinegar steeped to add extra sting!
I laugh incredulously to think that that Dick made money out of manufacturing instruments of torture. Can you imagine any parent today allowing anybody to belt his child with a leather strap!
Six of the best for being off topic!
JC 21.28
True what you say & it is off topic so we’ll leave J Dick in painful memory.
Had many a good day at Queens Park. One of their Past Presidents, sadly no longer with us, was a mucker of mine. There is something about the Corinthian spirit that appeals & I freely confess I miss those afternoons. For the love of the sport. I wonder if we could transfer that spirit within Hampden ?
Heard a bit of jabbas drone in and I agree SC had him on the back foot ,sounded like Jabba was hesitant at spouting the DM propaganda line whilst Stuart was lurking .
A number of fine folk on here have put out some financial models based on varying numbers of ticket sales for Sevco FC. I suspect some of the numbers may have been a bit high if this post from Rangersmedia is anything to go by
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?s=84b0d7fca98d1541b280a85f9391c68a&showtopic=234106
Looks like they’re not just walking away, they’re not turning up either.
Schneeb @ 21:58
🙂 just 🙂
Great day for British athletics and sport in general and I was shouting for everyone of them. Oddly though (well maybe not) I just could not get behind the mens football. I have mixed feelings and don’t know whether I would have wanted a Scot there but the moment pierce was running the show that was never going to happen. Did he ever come north of the border to look at players ! So end the end I think it was poetic justice that a player who earns his living north of the border sealed the GB teams fate.
briggsbhoy says:
August 4, 2012 at 22:25
____________________________________
You’re not alone in those sentiments. My Twitter timeline was full of admiration for the real athletes but Scots and English alike were scathing about the overpaid and overhyped EPL team (plus Ryan Giggs). Pearce is completely out of his depth managing at that level.
Jessica Ennis would have stuck that penalty away, as well.
Evening all.
Anyone got the exact quote and reference to Billy Dodds denying that he received side letters related to his EBT?
RM tonight focussing on Bocanegro and Edu having left TRFC.
The illiterati are giving them plaudits for having “done the right thing” and transferred over to Newco, despite them now opting to leave. One numpty even suggesting they could always go for Bartley again, without realising they haven’t paid Arsenal for last year’s loan spell yet. When will these neanderthals twig that all future players fees will have to be paid in advance from now on.
Parson St. Bhoy says:
August 4, 2012 at 15:33
CERTNM 31/07/2012 COMPANY NAME CHANGED THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C.
CERTIFICATE ISSUED ON 31/07/12
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The Rangers Football Club (No SC425159), Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow G51 2XD
Note the different company numbers. SC425159 incorporated 2012.
SC004276 incorporated in the !9th century
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Have I got this right ?
A Company with Reg No SC004276 was incorporated in 1899.
Its business was to operate a football club called ” Rangers Football Club”
This football club is due to be liquidated in 2012 or perhaps later
It has now changed its name to “Rangers 2012”
Meanwhile anyone looking up Reg NoSC004276 at Companies House will find that Rangers Football Club( now called “Rangers 2012”) continues to exist until it is liquidated
During the period when it is awaiting liquidation,the Co with Reg No SC004276 which changed its name from “Rangers Football Club” to “Rangers 2012” is unlikely to be be operating as a football club
Nevertheless “operating a football club” remains the purpose of the Co with Reg No SC004276
i.e.The Memorandum of Association of “Rangers Football Club” is unchanged despite its name change to “Rangers 2012”
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Meanwhile
A new company called Sevco with Reg No SC425159 came into existence in May 2012.
This new company has now changed its name to “The Rangers Football Club”
Its Memorandum of Association is identical to the Memorandum of Association of the Co with the Reg NoSC004276 which was called “Rangers Football Club” for 140yrs until it applied for liquidation and changed its name to “Rangers 2012”
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So what all this means is this
The Companies House Death Certificate for “Rangers Football Club” with Reg No SC004276 will now read
Born and incorporated in 1899 as “Rangers Football Club”
With an attachment that reads
“Rangers Football Club” renamed “Rangers 2012” on 30 July 2012
Died and wound up (exact date to be finalised)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And
The Companies House Birth Certificate of “The Rangers Football Club” will now read
Born and incorporated May 2012 as “Sevco”
With an attachment that reads
Renamed “The Rangers Football Club” on 30 July 2012″
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
so whats all the fuss about?
If my childrens mongrel called “Hector” gets dementia and dies and I buy a mongrel pup called “Timmy”
Surely its no big deal to change his name from”Timmy” to “Hector “?
After all
Perception is reality
If the weans are gullible enough to believe that Hector has grown backwards from a dog to a pup
Then so what?
As long as they are happy
its nobodys business outside the family
New Kid On The Block says:
August 4, 2012 at 22:49
===========================
Whether he got side letters doesn’t really matter any more.
Whether he got payments which were not declared is the important issue.
He would appear to be confirming he got the payments, the only question is whether they were declared or not.
I doubt they were, as that would have mucked up the EBT fraud.
Catch 22.
Goosy says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:11
‘If my childrens mongrel called “Hector” gets dementia and dies and I buy a mongrel pup called “Timmy”…’
Surely its no big deal to change his name from”Timmy” to “Hector “?’
—-
No big deal at all.
But if the original Hector had won a ‘pup of the year ‘ contest 14 years earlier, the ‘Timmy’ Hector could hardly lay caim to the medal!
‘Perception is reality’?- Reminds of the English theosophist who,after months of philosophical angst , declared that she ‘accepted the Universe’. Which statement invited the sardonic comment ” By God, she’d better!”
Philip José Farmer says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:13
__________________
Dodds case is different from situation of most interest to the SPL inquiry.
When Dodds moved to Dundee United, he had to take a big wage cut and did not want to go. So Rangers agreed to make up the difference in his wages, but to cut their total cost they paid him through an EBT.
Dodds actually received his payments from Rangers’ EBT while he played for Dundee United. I don’t know enough about the rules and regulations to know what sort of complications that presents, but I think we can be sure that these payments were not declared. Anyone got any thoughts on the impact of this? This was money that was originally promised to him in his normal Rangers contract.
Dodds also received two “side letters”. One promised him the payments and the other indemnified him against any tax liabilities that might come from receiving payment this way.
Can’t see it being directly relevant to the “dual contracts” issue, at least not in the direct way that applies for players who had side letters for their regular wages.
Dunno if i’ll get away with this one but I thought in the interests of transparency i’d give it a go :).
There are no actual lies in the email, but one or two things may be taken out of context. I don’t expect a reply, but one never knows. If Silly Dodds can admit to it, then why not Ally himself 🙂
“Dear Mr McCoist,
I, like you love our game and I do not wish to see this club punished for crimes it did not commit so, once and for all Ally, can you please state categorically, for the benefit of those internet bampots with hidden agenda, that you were not a beneficiary of the EBT scheme? Put this to bed once and for all, a stonewall denial is all we need.
Thanks and keep up the good work
FTB”
we’ll wait and see.
If this pops up again, sorry. I had to log in before I could post for some reason.
New Kid On The Block says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:41
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Dodds case is different from situation of most interest to the SPL inquiry.
When Dodds moved to Dundee United, he had to take a big wage cut and did not want to go. So Rangers agreed to make up the difference in his wages, but to cut their total cost they paid him through an EBT.
Dodds actually received his payments from Rangers’ EBT while he played for Dundee United. I don’t know enough about the rules and regulations to know what sort of complications that presents, but I think we can be sure that these payments were not declared. Anyone got any thoughts on the impact of this? This was money that was originally promised to him in his normal Rangers contract.
Dodds also received two “side letters”. One promised him the payments and the other indemnified him against any tax liabilities that might come from receiving payment this way.
Can’t see it being directly relevant to the “dual contracts” issue, at least not in the direct way that applies for players who had side letters for their regular wages.
==============================================================
I have not heard this before. Is there is documentary evidence of this? Part of a players wages being paid by a former club and competitor? Surely that’s against the rules?
New Kid On The Block says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:41
===========================
Like I said, side letters don’t really matter any more.
They did when the important issue was EBTs, because that would mean the EBTs didn’t work, as the payments were contractual and as such the EBTs were not appropriate.
Now the important issue was whether or not players received payments which were not declared to the SPL. If they did then the player was ineligible which would lead to titles being stripped.
The real irony is that they had to keep those payments “under the radar” in order to evade the tax. The very same thing, hiding those payments, is what will lead to the problems with fielding ineligible players.
It really is a classic Catch 22.
This is the third time of trying to post this, here goes. I sent this email off to Ibrox tonight, but doubt very much that I shall receive a reply, but if Silly Dodds can admit it then anyone can.
Dear Mr McCoist,
I, like you love our game and I do not wish to see this club punished for crimes it did not commit so, once and for all Ally, can you please state categorically, for the benefit of those internet bampots with hidden agenda, that you were not a beneficiary of the EBT scheme? Put this to bed once and for all, a stonewall denial is all we need.
Thanks and keep up the good work
FTB
I haven’t actually lied in the above, but telling him to keep up the good work may be taken out of context…
Goosy says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:11
‘If my childrens mongrel called “Hector” gets dementia and dies and I buy a mongrel pup called “Timmy”…’
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Unfortunately “Hector” did not have dementia and die. “Hector” had rabies and was biting all and sundry and had to be put down by a police marksman.
New Kid On The Block says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:41
Rate This
Philip José Farmer says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:13
__________________
Dodds case is different from situation of most interest to the SPL inquiry.
When Dodds moved to Dundee United, he had to take a big wage cut and did not want to go. So Rangers agreed to make up the difference in his wages, but to cut their total cost they paid him through an EBT.
Dodds actually received his payments from Rangers’ EBT while he played for Dundee United. I don’t know enough about the rules and regulations to know what sort of complications that presents, but I think we can be sure that these payments were not declared. Anyone got any thoughts on the impact of this? This was money that was originally promised to him in his normal Rangers contract.
Dodds also received two “side letters”. One promised him the payments and the other indemnified him against any tax liabilities that might come from receiving payment this way.
Can’t see it being directly relevant to the “dual contracts” issue, at least not in the direct way that applies for players who had side letters for their regular wages.
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I’m assuming that these side letters indemnifying players (and others?) against any tax liability are now worthless as RFC is about to go into liquidation.
How does HMRC view such situations? Are they minded to go after individuals who have benefitted from these kind of arrangements – where there is apparent evidence that both parties were engaged in tax avoidance or evasion?
If this was not the case why then the need for letters of indemnification?
Does this mean big tax bills for various players and ex-managers?
/ Red Lichtie
Hi all, only posted a couple of time over at RTC but glad that the baton has been picked up over here. Good job.
Anyone commented yet on the ” your silence was deafening” banner of the Aberdeen fans today at Celtic? Felt a little disappointed at it , given the “peace” that appeared to have broken out now that Sevco have gone.
Just a bit of partisan fun or do they really think that Celtic entering the earlier debates would have done anything other than allowed the MSM to blow it all up as a distraction to the real story?
Today’s total attendances in the SPL was 76728, obviously not including tomorrows game and without newco. Can anyone point me to the attendance figure for first game of last season, including any SPL teams who have since gone into administration, please? I’d quite like to compare the figures.
Thanks
New Kid On The Block says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:41
‘…Dodds actually received his payments from Rangers’ EBT while he played for Dundee United. I don’t know enough about the rules and regulations to know what sort of complications that presents, but I think we can be sure that these payments were not declared. …..’
—
All other things being equal, in this scenario, Dundee United’s hands would be clean.
Payments made to Dodds by that club that used to be in the SPL would not necessarily be known to United, whose contract with Dodds, submitted to the SFA, would have properly shown the remuneration package that they had agreed on with his agent.
If the disgraced club wanted to make additional payments to one of their ex-players, that was in no way Dundee United’s business.
They, after all, were not making the undeclared payments.
More importantly, they would have had no right even to ask whether Dodds was still receiving money from another source.
And even If the disgraced club had volunteered that information, Dundee Utd had no duty to ‘report’ them to the SFA.
Rangers: ” He’ll no move unless he gets £x”
Dundee Utd ” F… that! we’ll gie him £y”
Rangers. ” Aye, ok, you gie him that, and we’ll top it up”
Dundee Utd ” You dae what you like, but the contract we send up to the SFA will say what we’re paying.”
In no way could it be said that Utd were in any way implicated in the base, cheating practices of that rotten club that used to be in the SPL
john clarke says:
August 5, 2012 at 00:19
===========
Surely Dodds would have not been too keen to play well against Rangers while a Dundee Utd player and still being paid by his former club.
Regarding the value of indemnification letters now, these are only a contract between Rangers (the old one) and the players. With liquidation, they are worthless.
Whether RFC lived or died, HMRC would never have cared about them anyway and would have gone after players regardless if that was part of the plan.
10 0 Rate This
Parson St. Bhoy says:
August 4, 2012 at 15:33
CERTNM 31/07/2012 COMPANY NAME CHANGED THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C.
CERTIFICATE ISSUED ON 31/07/12
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The Rangers Football Club (No SC425159), Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow G51 2XD
Note the different company numbers. SC425159 incorporated 2012.
SC004276 incorporated in the !9th century
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Have I got this right ?
A Company with Reg No SC004276 was incorporated in 1899.
Its business was to operate a football club called ” Rangers Football Club”
This football club is due to be liquidated in 2012 or perhaps later
It has now changed its name to “Rangers 2012″
Meanwhile anyone looking up Reg NoSC004276 at Companies House will find that Rangers Football Club( now called “Rangers 2012″) continues to exist until it is liquidated
During the period when it is awaiting liquidation,the Co with Reg No SC004276 which changed its name from “Rangers Football Club” to “Rangers 2012″ is unlikely to be be operating as a football club
Nevertheless “operating a football club” remains the purpose of the Co with Reg No SC004276
i.e.The Memorandum of Association of “Rangers Football Club” is unchanged despite its name change to “Rangers 2012″
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Meanwhile
A new company called Sevco with Reg No SC425159 came into existence in May 2012.
This new company has now changed its name to “The Rangers Football Club”
Its Memorandum of Association is identical to the Memorandum of Association of the Co with the Reg NoSC004276 which was called “Rangers Football Club” for 140yrs until it applied for liquidation and changed its name to “Rangers 2012″
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So what all this means is this
The Companies House Death Certificate for “Rangers Football Club” with Reg No SC004276 will now read
Born and incorporated in 1899 as “Rangers Football Club”
With an attachment that reads
“Rangers Football Club” renamed “Rangers 2012″ on 30 July 2012
Died and wound up (exact date to be finalised)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And
The Companies House Birth Certificate of “The Rangers Football Club” will now read
Born and incorporated May 2012 as “Sevco”
With an attachment that reads
Renamed “The Rangers Football Club” on 30 July 2012″
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
so whats all the fuss about?
If my childrens mongrel called “Hector” gets dementia and dies and I buy a mongrel pup called “Timmy”
Surely its no big deal to change his name from”Timmy” to “Hector “?
After all
Perception is reality
If the weans are gullible enough to believe that Hector has grown backwards from a dog to a pup
Then so what?
As long as they are happy
its nobodys business outside the family
It is if you only do it to avoid paying the vets bill
BowenBoys says:
August 5, 2012 at 00:24
‘Surely Dodds would have not been too keen to play well against Rangers while a Dundee Utd player and still being paid by his former club.’
—
There would have been a legally enforceable contract under which Dodds was guaranteed his money, whether he did his damndest against Rangers or not.
The question is rather whether his, or, to be fair, any player’s, allegiance to the club he has an emotional bond with, would subvert his professionalism as a player.
I would, personally, have no respect for any former Celtic player who now played for a different club, if he did not play his heart out for that club against Celtic.
Henrik did what he had to do, professionally, even if with regret!
No, I think Dodds has his footballing professional pride, even if his awareness of financial matters is no greater than mine!
Mr Bunny says:
August 4, 2012 at 20:28(Edit)
There’s been quite a few excellent suggestions amongst the general chatter (and I admit I’m usually just part of the chatter) however they’re likely to get lost in the noise …. how about some regular collection of the best with maybe a poll on which to pursue further? Losing suggestions needn’t disappear, just become part of a later poll further along the line. Polls to be followed up with suggestions on how to pursue action.
______________________________________________________________________________
Mr Bunny
See “The List” page.
does anyone think that setting up a national organisation of Scottish football fans that are independent of all clubs, but that would represent the interests of the same? rtc was responsible, through its contributors, for great changes in the game and it seems to be the next logical step up from internet bampottery to a national institute of bampottery or a national fans forum. RTC has been responsible for an unprecedented level of cooperation between Scottish football fans from all clubs and from all walks of life and one of the reasons for this is that the RTC and now TSFM is non partizan and all encompassing. the level of professional knowledge available on these two sites is encyclopaedic; we have lawyers, journalist (honourable) and accountants among many others. Can you imagine the power an organisation with access to such knowledge and experience would eventually yield? It may take 5 years, it may take 10, but all footballing authorities would have to listen to such an organisation and eventually could lead to fan representation on the boards of all professional clubs in the country. Think about that, fans actually involved with making and implementing the rules. football clubs rely on our cash to operate and yet we have nothing to show for the millions we have handed over in the past decades. we could have a real say in where our money goes for once and rest assured, i do not believe for one second that we would allow another Doncaster or Regan to take the reins of the organisations that make the rules. these people would be answerable to us, we would dictate the terms of any tv deals, maybe even set up an SPL TV station. the technology is cheap and accessible and the profits would go straight back to the clubs to be invested in upgrading infrastructure, youth, training and medical facilities, education programmes for young players. The benefits of such an organisation are almost limitless, it would be a paradigmal shift in the very nature of football and, given the right level of commitment from the right people with the right motives, we would once again be the caretakers of our own game and football would once again be a game for the people.
I know that was a bit of a rant, but if anyone had said two years ago that an internet site would be set up by one (?) individual with a sense of injustice and who had decided that enough was enough and would go on to change the course of Scottish football, who would’ve believed it?
This is just something to think about and to hopefully open discussion around. I would be very interested to hear anyone’s views.
Thank you
Frankie
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rangers-newco-sfl-out-to-prove-its-worth-to-the-world-as-rangers-enter-new-reality-1-2451553
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/ibrox-side-on-lower-league-mission.18360096
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/defiant-demeanour-at-tannadice-bodes-well-for-good-outcome.18357491
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/abuzz-for-duries-return.18360285
After hearing Jim Traynor receiving a shirricking on his own show and the plug towards this blog. I thought I would show my hand and try to give a good tuppence worth of opinion, albeit it is only my opinion. I am now sure that the print media in Scotlands’ Jacket is on a shoogly nail and proud of the bampots.
Thanks again for the papers Stunney!
/ Red Lichtie
My weekly Scottish Football winners and losers… http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/winners-and-losers-august-5th-2012/
Scottish football attendances are up, Langfield shows footballers are human, Gemmel is a disgrace and well done Livi!
God to see stevensan the Asian Saintee fast with the facts – ”
Nobody will turn up? Well that was proved to be a load of succulent lamb tripe this week, with a new TV deal almost matching last years deal, along with increased attendances on opening day. St.Mirren attracted 600 more fans against Inverness when compared to the same fixture last May, with Hearts v Saints having a similar increase. The new boys Dundee saw Killie have a full 1500 fans more than last years average attendance..
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And congratulations to Richard Wilson of the Herald who provides a much needed plug to plucky wee Sevco’s season-ticket hotline at the end of his article today. It was one of those moment where journalism succumbs to advertising. He helpfully provided all the necesary information including deadlines and the hotline number. I assume in the interests of fairness, he will be plugging Partick Thistle’s season ticket information in his next column. But in case it slips his mind, the standard Partick Thistle season-book is £260 and you can pay by credit/debit card by calling 0871 402 1971. 🙂