The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).
Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.
The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.
The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.
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1. The site is not the domain of any one club and is open to fans of all clubs.
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Welcome to The Scottish Football Monitor
Morning all.
Firstly,thanks to Stunney once again.First with the papers as usual.
So the SPL didn’t implode.Attendances up on first day last year.(Well done to the Dons fans for turning out in large numbers at CP today).if every club can get around 200-300 on their gate then any loss of income due to RFC(IA) will be minimal.
Meanwhile,over at Ibrox the ticket sales for the newest club in Scotlands first home game appear to very low.Still a couple of days until K.O. though so maybe things will pick-up.
A wee word of warning to any RFC fans reading.
I’m told that due to the lack of proper banking facilities at Ibrox,Season Tickets are being sold on a “Continuous Credit/Debit Card” scheme.I didn’t know what this was but my wife works in banking.Her advice is to be very careful here.You are,in fact,signing over control of your card to a third party,who can take whatever payment they wish,whenever they wish.It can also be difficult to cancel at short notice.I wouldn’t want anyone to get stung by this.Cash taken off a Credit Card will also incur a high rate of interest you wouldn’t be liable for with an ordinary DD.
I’m sure it’s more complicated than this.The wife gave me the laymans version.Just asking folks to be careful what they sign up for.
just had a google of continuous payment schemes and TJ is right… watch out.
They cannot be cancelled by the bank, but only by the company taking the payments. Disputes are hard to solve. So if ‘Sevco’ decided to enter admin they could take payments at the same time as cancelling the tickets. You would have to sue the company to stop the payments.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/82/82-automatic-payments.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/2010/02/continuous-payment-authority-d.shtml
Sorry, this may already have been discussed.
Having recently listened to Billy Dodds’ conversation with Chris McLaughlin, I thought that the FTT might be interested in also listening to it carefully.
This is not about side letters – it would appear Mr Dodds’ EBT was a final package. It is not about not paying tax – Mr Dodds and his advisers may very well have believed appropriate tax measures were being taken. It is, though, about the difference between discretionary and contractual payments. Mr Dodds makes it very clear that he and his advisers were happy to be paid, through a trust fund, what he was legally and contractually entitled to.
This was not a loan. There was no expectation of paying back what he was entitled to. Again and again he said this £190k was what he was entitled to receive at the end of his time at RFC.
Surely this nails the case for the HMRC firmly shut? A recipient of an EBT was paid what he was contractually entitled to receive – ie his wages.
In being open, Mr Dodds may very well have closed the case for the revenue man.
stevensanph says:
August 5, 2012 at 08:09
just had a google of continuous payment schemes and TJ is right… watch out.
They cannot be cancelled by the bank, but only by the company taking the payments. Disputes are hard to solve. So if ‘Sevco’ decided to enter admin they could take payments at the same time as cancelling the tickets. You would have to sue the company to stop the payments.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/82/82-automatic-payments.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/2010/02/continuous-payment-authority-d.shtml
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Thanks for that Steven.
Like I said i was told this is what’s happening.I can’t guarantee this but i’d hate to see some well meaning fans being screwed for their hard earned.
sarahleyden says:
August 5, 2012 at 07:28
And congratulations to Richard Wilson of the Herald who provides a much needed plug to plucky wee Sevco’s season-ticket hotline at the end of his article today. It was one of those moment where journalism succumbs to advertising.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sarah is spot on. Richard Wilson’s piece is not journalism It is straightforward, up front, in your face advertising. Why would you choose to advertise that particular club Richard?
It will be interesting to note just how many other clubs get the full sales pitch treatment from Richard over the course of the season. As Sarah says, in the interests of fairness.
PS If anyone from The Herald is looking in, I used to be a regular customer. I stopped buying your paper during 2011 (thanks to the greater understanding I received from reading the RTC site). If Richard’s piece is representative of the ‘quality’ on offer, I’m sure that you will understand why I won’t be back.
TJ said:
Like I said i was told this is what’s happening.I can’t guarantee this but i’d hate to see some well meaning fans being screwed for their hard earned.
—
It is happening – check out the terms and conditions of a rangers ticket here. You can pay by cash, cheque, or credit card on a continuous credit scheme.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/images/staticcontent/documents/Terms%20&%20Conditions%202012.pdf
stevensanph says:
August 5, 2012 at 08:33
TJ said:
Like I said i was told this is what’s happening.I can’t guarantee this but i’d hate to see some well meaning fans being screwed for their hard earned.
—
It is happening – check out the terms and conditions of a rangers ticket here. You can pay by cash, cheque, or credit card on a continuous credit scheme.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/images/staticcontent/documents/Terms%20&%20Conditions%202012.pdf
===========================================================================Funnily enough,just saw this on Rangers Rumours:
Renewed today, took me an hour on and off. First I was told they had sold my ticket, numerous calls to get through to customer services but lines were full. Called ticket office after numerous tries, got them to have customer service call me. Nice woman called back and took my details, finally renewed now sending a form for continu os credit card scheme….got there in the end
stevensanph says:
August 5, 2012 at 08:33
=========================================================================
Looks like the wife was right.
As always! 🙂
stevensanph says:
From the post above:
“Nice woman called back and took my details, finally renewed now sending a form for continu os credit card scheme….got there in the end”
After reading your link to the Ombudsman.I’d say this fan may now be on shaky ground.Arranged by phone.No paperwork,though that may be on its way.Can only be cancelled by Rangers and no bank responsibility.
Exactly what the Ombudsman,and the wife were warning about(and I know who I’d rather argue with).
Jim 00.09
Ahhhh. I see. I’ve been a bit slow on the uptake. All these ex-RFC players could themselves be personally liable for the Income Tax not paid on EBT income ? In some cases that could be hvndreds of thousands of pounds – and their indemnity from a company going into liquidation is worthless. That would certainly explain why it is an issue some ex-employees always seemed keen to dismiss.
I’m writing this from my fallout shelter deep under the back garden. As the SPL started yesterday, I assume that by now Armageddon will have hit the surface of the earth, and that something between simple civil unrest and crazed zombies roaming the land is taking place up there, that Scottish football TV rights have been sold for 50p and a packet of jelly babies, the Olympics have been cancelled, Boris Johnson has shown his serious side to the world at this time of crisis, and that bankers have seen the error of their ways and are showing grace, humility and generosity in the world’s hour of need.
All I can do is wait and hope that my supplies of baked beans and caramel wafers last long enough for me to get the ‘all clear’ signal from Regan & Doncaster HQ. The world owes Scottish football administrators a debt of gratitude for their timely warnings, their names will long be remembered as a byword for foresight and good judgement.
this fan may now be on shaky ground.Arranged by phone.No paperwork,though that may be on its way.Can only be cancelled by Rangers and no bank responsibility.
—-
and all with a company which no one knows who the owners really are… in any other line of business there would be a huge fraud warning attached to this one.
sarahleyden says:
August 5, 2012 at 07:28
He helpfully provided all the necesary information including deadlines and the hotline number
That’s appalling. How low can the Herald go? That is well worth a complaint – I’m going to do so right now. Anyone care to join me?
stevensanph says:
August 5, 2012 at 09:08
this fan may now be on shaky ground.Arranged by phone.No paperwork,though that may be on its way.Can only be cancelled by Rangers and no bank responsibility.
—-
and all with a company which no one knows who the owners really are… in any other line of business there would be a huge fraud warning attached to this one.
——————————————————————————————————————–
Normally you’d be correct but as the SFA say they’re “Fit & Proper” then that’s OK.
It’s not like the SFA to get it wrong!
Just checking on the RFC ticket information site.It seems that tickets for Non ST matches can be ordered through the Continuous Credit Card Scheme.I can see chaos ahead.Wait until the interest hits the Credit Card user(if they don’t pay the balance in full or failed payments on Debit Cards with the ensuing bank charges,interest,RFC admin fees etc.
Good deal for the bank though.Although they have no responsibility for payment made through this scheme,they’ll be coining it in with returned payments,unauthorised overdrafts,admion charges etc.
I’m in the wrong business.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 5, 2012 at 07:45
Your wife is correct in this. It’s good advice never to fall for this form of payment, I’d imagine it’s usually used in telephone sales as the easiest and most convenient method (for them). I once made payment by this method, unaware that it wasn’t in fact a direct debit, and was shocked when I contacted my bank to cancel and they told me I couldn’t, it was down to the payee to end the payment. I was fortunate that the payee cancelled without any problem, but… Would you trust Charley?
Test
prices,deadlines and ticket hotline number also in the sunday mail
no need to guess which club – they just can’t help themselves
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 5, 2012 at 07:45
Stevensanph
Looks like we’ve just discovered how Sevco intend to make money out of this new footy team they’ve started.
Once again, the Gers fans would be smarter reading this blog than trusting the MSM. I wonder why no savy journalist (I know, there aren’t many) has picked up on this? Still, I suspect one of them might read about it on here and realise there’s maybe a story in it!
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 5, 2012 at 08:22
0 0 Rate This
stevensanph says:
August 5, 2012 at 08:09
just had a google of continuous payment schemes and TJ is right… watch out.
They cannot be cancelled by the bank, but only by the company taking the payments.
——————-
The subscriptions to Rangers TV seem to work in this way too. When this crisis began in 2011 I was over in Scotland for a family visit. CW made the right noises, and was taken at face value by the press. Since it was football, not the build-up to the war in Iraq, I thought he must be a good thing. Suffice to say, I subscribed to Rangers TV as a way of supporting my childhood club. I can otherwise see loads of Scottish football here (if you have a big enough dish …) but you feel you should do something.
As the thing unfolded some of us wised-up to many things. The old ssues were still there, lurking; the bad memories returned, and then the financial chaos. Ok, no more of my money was going into Ibrox. But cancelling wasn’t that easy. The bank could not cancel, which was a bit annoying as money kept going out of my account. To be fair though, when I eventually got through, they did cancel – and repay the amounts taken. It took a few emails and a few weeks due to confusing online ID issues. But it happened speedily when I got the right person involved. What was puzzling though was that there was no online function that I could find to cancel the subscription when logged into my account. Don’t know if this is this how all football clubs work but maybe they should look into setting up a PayPal solution in Govan?
I never knew that some CC transactions were un-cancelable by the bank . You live and learn.
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
August 5, 2012 at 09:45
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 5, 2012 at 07:45
Stevensanph
Looks like we’ve just discovered how Sevco intend to make money out of this new footy team they’ve started.
———————————————————————————————————————
And if the rumours about RFC 2012 directors,Allenby ,Access Intelligence,Octopus connections are correct,then how much of this mony will be syphoned off in Ticketus’s direction?.
This has been puzzling me for weeks now……………………………………has any one heard how many season tickets the Newclub have sold to date. Is it still in the hundreds or have they managed to breach the four figure mark. The reason I’m asking is that if their followers don’t buy season tickets now and decide to pick and choose their games what are they going to do come Winter, it is long remember, when they are 15 points clear and they have got Elgin or Peterhead (with all due respect to those two well run clubs) at a cold, wet and windy (not to mention delapidated) Ibrox.
Without doing the financial analysis that some already have I just cannot see how, even allowing for the imminent departure of some big earners, they can afford to pay over two hundred grand in football salaries every week (manager, coaches, physios, doctor,etc). What financial model did Chico show the SFA ? We then need to consider all the other costs including administrative employees salaries, maintaining the stadium and training ground and I suppose the Directors will also be getting paid.
This does not add up, both literally and metaphorically……in fact I smell a rat. We need to keep asking the questions and the good guys like SC and JS will hopefully lead the public charge.
IIRC then ST renewals can be made up until 7th August.So by Tuesday Charlieboy will have a good idea of how many he’s going to sell.I suspect it will be a lot lower than he hopes.His investors will need deep pockets if they’ve to fund the club for 3 years minimum and I think they’ll soon find out that their pockets may not be deep enough.
“Old certainties were abruptly dismantled since the old holding company entered administration last February”
Says Wilson in The Herald. Funny how that phraseology wasn’t being used in February…
Apologies is already posted. Have these figures from the sky/espn deal been confirmed? This feels like a rerun of the Armageddon articles weeks ago …..
http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/aug/05/spl-counts-cost-of-rangers-banishment?cat=football&type=article
Livia Burlando says:
August 5, 2012 at 09:12
sarahleyden says:
August 5, 2012 at 07:28
He helpfully provided all the necesary information including deadlines and the hotline number
That’s appalling. How low can the Herald go? That is well worth a complaint – I’m going to do so right now. Anyone care to join me?
———————————————————
The 4th & 5th paragraphs did not have quotation marks at the start or finish, so are these Wilson’s words rather than words attributed to Kenny McDowall? Sloppy.
Flywheel
Wilson and co are going down a dangerous road here ,I would imagine if some of these season ticket purchasers go into debt they will chase whoever advised them to buy ,I know it should not be the case but you just cant tell some peeple,still lets sit back and wait until xmas when the product is not worth the money and they try and cancel ,maybe that’s why Sally and co are not touting , oh dear.
Just some random figures,probably mince.
10 people in the Ticket Office working an 8 hour day.
10 mins average time to set up a payment
60 ph =480 per day.
7 days brings sales of just under 3500 at an average price of £250,circa £900k if paid in full.I’m assuming lots will be on the 4 payment scheme so I’m allowing for takings until now of approx 50% therefore around £450k.
Over the season that’s around £9k per week.
McCulloch is still supposedly on £21k p.w.
Someone please tell me how this is going to work.
And the PWC commentary is at odds with the tenor of the article ie Scottish football is in a better position than other leagues who are more dependent on broadcast income. Surely, the solution is to drive down costs to meet real revenues, improve the product and attendances rather than chase the Murdoch shilling? In the (albeit unlikely) event that sky pull out dan sarf then how many premiership clubs would survive?
http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/aug/05/spl-counts-cost-of-rangers-banishment?cat=football&type=article
no official figures posted Logie, but the deal (SKY and ESPN) was meant to be around 13m a season – 2m less than last year. Of course, over 12 teams that is a lot less than the seven figures being banded about by the press! Rumors also about that the prize money has already been renegotiated to give a fairer split – will be keeping a close eye on the SPL rule book for a sly update that the MSM won’t mention.
Some papers seem to be reporting it as 10m, saying that 2m has to go to the SFL. This has always been the case though, so its a non starter, and 1m has to go to ‘Rangers’, which I find absurd as it would go to the rest of the SFL as well, not just Rangers.
I haven’t seen any figures either for oversea’s rights, which, I believe, was included in the 15m figure given last season, so if these are added in then the total will be getting close to last season. I posted a quick update to my financial analysis of St.Johnstone based on the 13m figure and where it leaves us in regards to finance….
…396 fans extra a match through the gate would cover the loss! Seeing as St.Mirren and Hearts increased attendances yesterday by 600 against last season and Killie 1000 over last season’s average attendance, and with our Euro match added in, I can see this easily being achieved. Remember Dundee usually bring more to McD than Rangers do anyway!
http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/saints-without-rangers-so-no-armageddon-then/
Part of the quid pro quo in Scottish Football is that the media have effectively delivered free advertising to the game in return for ease of access to the players and officials.
There is a perception however that the extent of the assistance given to the new club from the press smacks of croneyism. Given Richard Wilson’s admitted allegiances, it calls into question the professionalism and journalistic integrity of his paper – especially since no such assistance appears to be on offer to the other clubs, six of whom according to Wilson are on the brink of administration.
The subliminal message might also be that Charles Green is reluctantly being admitted to the MSM VIP enclosure.
A word of caution for fans of the new club is that up to now, Wilson’s instincts on every aspect of this tale have been spectacularly in error. Given the emerging news that finance for STs is only through the non-consumer-friendly recurring credit card payment scheme, a prudent fan of the new club might decide to listen to Wilson’s advice and choose to ignore it.
smartie1947 says:
August 4, 2012 at 23:08
25 0 i
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RM tonight focussing on Bocanegro and Edu having left TRFC.
The illiterati are giving them plaudits for having “done the right thing” and transferred over to Newco, despite them now opting to leave. One numpty even suggesting they could always go for Bartley again, without realising they haven’t paid Arsenal for last year’s loan spell yet. When will these neanderthals twig that all future players fees will have to be paid in advance from now on.
=======================================================================
Smartie…”Illiterati”…pure dead brilliant…every day a school day…just as on RTC where we all learned so much.
Gaz @ 10:07
Churnalists and Sevco supporters seem to be having difficulty in understanding what constitutes a holding company
So here is a definition that may help them
“UK Holding Companies
Companies may own one or more other companies which are its subsidiaries. The relationship between parent and subsidiary depends on majority control of the voting rights of shares or the ability to control the board of directors. A UK holding company is a company established for the sole or majority purpose of holding shares in the Groups subsidiary companies incorporated in countries in which the Group is engaged in business activities. The holding company will receive the dividends paid by those subsidiaries and use them to declare a dividend to the ultimate parent”
Now unless “The Club” was a properly constituted compay in its own right, then club and company are one and the same
As usual, tell a lie often enough and it will become fact
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 5, 2012 at 10:27
Just some random figures,probably mince.
10 people in the Ticket Office working an 8 hour day.
10 mins average time to set up a payment
60 ph =480 per day.
7 days brings sales of just under 3500 at an average price of £250,circa £900k if paid in full.I’m assuming lots will be on the 4 payment scheme so I’m allowing for takings until now of approx 50% therefore around £450k.
Over the season that’s around £9k per week.
McCulloch is still supposedly on £21k p.w.
Someone please tell me how this is going to work.
=======================================================================
To put a bit of perspective on this,If the Copland Road Stand is sold out,Charlie can’t afford to pay McCulloch,Alexander and Wallace,assuming capacity of 7500 and wages rumoured at £21k-8k-10k respectively and an average price of £250.
I learnt last night that my sister’s friend in Glasgow queued up at Ibrokes to renew her sisten ticket…for about £288 or thereabouts.
The friend appeared to be under pressure of some renewal deadline of Tueday-ish…any comments?
Also, I enquired as to which back was administering the collection of the Direct Debits and was told it was the Clydesdale…any confirmation?
If yes, does this imply that Sevco have managed to aquire “normal” banking facilities?
stevensanph says: August 5, 2012 at 08:33
….check out the terms and conditions of a rangers ticket here… __________________________________________________________________________
I respect one of the blog objectives in not being perceived as a sevco bashing forum but, honestly, this sevco trading condition is a mite crass in light of what has transpired of late and should not pass without comment.
“7. Rangers Football Club reserves the right to refuse entry to the Stadium where the season ticket holder has an outstanding debt to the Club.”
From upwards of 200 plus OldCo Creditors…… the cry was…..
“If Carlsberg did Irony”
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 5, 2012 at 10:27
Not doubting your figures, and I’ve read it on here before, but I find it incredible that McCulloch could possibly be on £21k pw. He might have been a favourite at Ibrox, but surely no club in England was ever going to pay him that sort of wage (was he ever that good?), and so Rangers should surely have been able to sign him for much less! That apart, his potential contribution/cost ratio must be insane for the lower divisions, it must be for the SPL too, so he must be on his way before the window closes. But who will pay him that kind of money? So he will have a dilema, the team he supports, and was prepared to take a wage cut for, can’t afford him. The league they play in is way below the level I’m sure he considers himself to be. So there are reasons for him to leave, but it will mean a (large) wage cut if he does. Will he be prepared to take that wage cut? If he stays, will he get his contract fullfilled? Sevco must surely want him to go, even on a free, as his wage would cover the new signings at a stroke, and I doubt he’ll still be playing in 3 years time (should they make the SPL) so in terms of spending now for the future, he’s surplus to requirements. It might have been better for all concerned if he’d refuses to TUPE over 😉
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
August 5, 2012 at 10:49
==========================================================================
He may be on less.I’m just using the rumoured figures.Even on half,though,they still can’t afford him.
A word on the recurring credit card payment system. It is run and managed by reputable online payment processing agencies like Worldpay, and it is used by both Celtic & Rangers internet media sales (although I’ve never heard of it being used for STs).
The main advantage in the online arena is that since the customer base is international, it removes the complication of managing DD type transactions over a number of jurisdictions. IIRC it is banned in Germany.
If the company using the scheme is trustworthy, then the scheme is perfectly safe. However as TJ says, the collector of payments is in control of the process, and this might make some people nervous about getting mixed up in it – especially if the company they are doing business with has no track record.
That said, the agency managing the scheme have the power to suspend the company using the scheme if there are complaints. An agency like Worldpay would not hesitate to do so.
On balance, if the agency running the scheme is reputable, then the level of protection to the customer is greater.
Danish Pastry says:
August 5, 2012 at 09:50
“I never knew that some CC transactions were un-cancelable by the bank . You live and learn.”…
————————————————
DP, seems like some are catching on.
From RM
delr1981, on 01 August 2012 – 08:50 PM, said:
“Well i pressed the continue button at checkour and its taken the whole amount out of my bank, I only had £150 in my bank and now im at -£147!!! and have direct debits due out tomorrow. Phoned my bank and they wont stop it as i would have to get Rangers to stop it. Cant believe that it went through when i didnt have enough in my account!”
This is outrageous…aided and abetted by the Herald.
I think he was shown by the MSM when the ‘pay cuts’ were being talked about that he was one of the top earners, so it would put him in the 20k category. Now, whether he took a paycut when he TUPE’d across is unknown. But ask yourself this…
…if he could get similar money elsewhere (and if he was on 10k you can bet there would be championship clubs after him) why would he play in Div3? The only thing that makes sense, like Black, is that Rangers are paying well above the odds. And its money they can’t afford.
Going back to TJ’s comments re: the continous credit scheme, I have now been through all the Premier league clubs in England, plus a few championship clubs, Celitc and Hearts and have found ZERO clubs who collect money in this way.
Anyone able to confirm if Rangers are doing a direct debit scheme as Ally mentioned above, as, their website offers just cash, cheque and this credit scheme as payment options. Could this friend have been told its through Clydesdale bank when they have actually signed up to a credit scheme??
weshallnotbemoved at 10:03
Torrevieja Johnbhoy at 10:27
stevensanph at 10:31
Base costs there is a handle on – Admins reported expenditure was 8.4m over 20 weeks or about 22m per year. The real number for 12/13 will be north of that – I have base costs over 25m pa, and that has no allowance for the JAs or CG finances [or TU if that is really a factor]
There are too many unknowns on next season’s revenues.
By that I don`t include the clubs potential revenues from tickets, hospitality, catering, mechanise and advertising and so on which can be respected on commercial confidentiality grounds. That is their club and their money but estimates can be taken from publically audited accounts from past years.
Not those revenues, I mean the unknown revenues from the pooled resources from the SPL, SFL, ESPN, SKY and so on that are shared via formulae and deals that now affect every other football club in Scotland.
There is no transparency on these. Was CG holding a gun to their head and anything been re- negotiated?
SPL has not divulged details of the TV deal[s] for example, what else is in the soup? Have the splits been changed / SFL revenue agreements altered – we just don`t know.
If it’s shared pools across all clubs in Scotland now – the supporters who pay are entitled to know.
john wesley hardin says:
August 5, 2012 at 11:03(Edit)
From RM
delr1981, on 01 August 2012 – 08:50 PM, said:
“Well i pressed the continue button at checkour and its taken the whole amount out of my bank, I only had £150 in my bank and now im at -£147!!! and have direct debits due out tomorrow. Phoned my bank and they wont stop it as i would have to get Rangers to stop it. Cant believe that it went through when i didnt have enough in my account!”
_____________________________________________________________________
That doesn’t look like a recurring CC payment. He’s probably checked the debit card, or possibly credit card option to pay in full.
A CC transaction wouldn’t come out of your bank account – at least not right away. And he can challenge the payment if it was made online.
Essex beancounter says:
August 5, 2012 at 10:45
the mail article quoted the 7th as being the deadline for renewals – after which they would go on general sale
strangely no mention of priority for those on the waiting list 🙂
this could be a dead end, but may be worth investigating…
When searching around for info on this Rangers season ticket thing, I am redirected to a site called rangers.talent-sport.co.uk.
A quick Whois shows that this is a domain of the company Iris Ticketing, based in Cheshire. A search of Iris ticketing shows their MD to be a Mark Ellis…
What is the chance Mark Ellis is related to Andrew Ellis, who was the one that helped Whyte set up the ticketus deal? Are Iris managing the tickets and passing off a % to Ticketus??
Are is this all a coincidence?
TSFM
‘On balance, if the agency running the scheme is reputable, then the level of protection to the customer is greater.’
_______________________________________________________________
That’s alright then, their money’s in safe hands 😉
Meant to add, I’d imagine they are having to use this facility because they can’t use the Direct Debit system.
stevensanph says:
August 5, 2012 at 11:27
Must be a coincidence, Steven, there are a lot of coincidences with the people involved in Sevco/Rangers 😉
TSFM says:
August 5, 2012 at 11:13
That’a all very well. However, who in their right mind would give CG and his motley bunch of spivs ‘recurring’ access to their credit/debit cards anyway?
GSRX says:
August 5, 2012 at 11:38
I would imagine those who are in their ‘right mind’ are unaware of the difference between this and a direct debit and the full implications. You can be pretty certain it is not being explained to them. I know in my case it wasn’t (non-football related) and I was left with the impression I’d set up a direct debit and they were merely using my debit card details as a method of setting up the DD. There may well be rules that now make it compulsory for the vendor to explain the Terms and Conditions to all customers, and we all know how good Rangers are at sticking to the rules…
A lateral thought
Suppose the Sevco purchase had two secret conditions
1 Committed to honour the CW floating charge of £27m in the event of a Sevco liquidation
2 Committed to roll over the old RFC Ticketus debt of £27m and subsequently renegotiating it to reduce the repayment period from 4 yrs to a much shorter period
This would set the scene for a massive outflow of cash from Sevco to Ticketus by the time of the fundraising in Oct
After the fundraising there could be another massive outflow of cash to Ticketus forcing a Sevco Administration and then liquidation
Having shed all but the Ticketus and CW debts the new Co arising from the ashes of Sevco would then operate the same scam all over again milking next years ST holders and other Creditors
Would this be legal ?
stevensanph
Regards McCulloch. He is on £18k a week. If he had taken a wage cut we would all have heard about it by now. It would be shouted from the rooftops as to how much he loves the club etc
Black is on £6500 a week with a £1500 appearance money bonus. These wages are unsustainable for SevCo. They will be in admin by Halloween
Good Afternoon.
Well Armageddon didn’t materialise, although there were a lot of empty seats at Celtic Park yesterday, possibly due as much to holidays etc, as anything.
I fear for the decent Sevco fans who are going to be fleeced by this scheme.
The SFA should not only have been given the business plan but some form of guarantee that in the event of ST sales not being achieved then there was sufficient funds to meet the shortfall.
News today seems to put even more familiar faces in the frame with Green, the same faces who were with Whyte, but move along nothing to see here.
Test
http://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/the-ghost-of-david-murray/
just another coincidence Im sure
Is there a definitive list of Sevco registered players yet? I’d like to see the player’s age breakdon to see if they are compliant with the relevant SFL rules. Apologies if this is going over old ground.
I expect that all the major directors at Rangers in the last 4 years are still the main players in the switcheroo. The only part of the plan that went wrong was remaining in the SPL and that is why there will be a clamour to reorganise scottish football. If Rangers are not in the SPL next season, they will be in the 1st div /spl2.
its important for all fans to remind them they are not the same club that was liquidated.
timtim on August 5, 2012 at 12:37
timtim
Great link, been plenty rumour that the GEF and SDM we’re known to each other beforehand, would like to see if some concrete proof could be dug up.
Looking at the Murray White business name there appears to be 3 flavours of that name and James Park is a director of 2 of them and a Violet Park is the director of the third!
I hope we get to hear of all the filth uncovered by BDO when they take over.
Has anyone got a date when the BDO are likely to start their investigation? Do we still have to wait for the Judge’s ruling on Duff and Phelps?
Alarming also the various churnalists who are advertising for newco.
GSRX says:
August 5, 2012 at 11:38
TSFM says:
August 5, 2012 at 11:13
That’a all very well. However, who in their right mind would give CG and his motley bunch of spivs ‘recurring’ access to their credit/debit cards anyway?
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I agree that a CC charge would not normally appear in your account right away but a Debit Card payment might.Maybe this is how the person paid.The bank then put the customer into the red,accruing all the charges that will surely follow.The customer should have cancelled all his due DDs immediately,asking the bank to attach a care order to same.That way the bank can be held responsible if DDs are paid in error.He could then contact the folk he was due to pay and explain the situation before being hit with all sorts of admin charges.
Petersen Leigh says:
August 5, 2012 at 12:39
6 0 Rate This
Is there a definitive list of Sevco registered players yet? I’d like to see the player’s age breakdon to see if they are compliant with the relevant SFL rules. Apologies if this is going over old ground.
>>>>>>
Compliance with Rules ? Well, I suppose there is a 1st time for everything 🙂
Palacio67 says:
August 5, 2012 at 13:36
Has anyone got a date when the BDO are likely to start their investigation? Do we still have to wait for the Judge’s ruling on Duff and Phelps?
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12 June – D+P said administration to last 8 to 10 weeks. If that remains – the 8 weeks period is up thisTuesday 8 August – but they`ll have to wait on LH deliberation on the COI Report which may delay BDO.
http://fansfirstscotland.com/
This guy is worth reading. He points to the causes of failure in terms of the rewards system.
In particular the distribution of CL rewards that brought about the absurd situation at Rangers in 2008 that they had a choice to pay their taxes or pursue CL money to escape debt.
That they made the wrong choice is abundantly clear and they are suffering consequences, but what is absurd is that the choice ever existed and to stop a repeat redistribution of CL rewards has to happen.
That will stop spivs wanting to get involved as the rewards for doing so significantly reduce.
It will also remove the temptation to cheat.
From KDS.Ties in with the McMurdo link.
……and so it continues. Do people never learn a lesson?
ExclusiveBy CHRIS MUSSON and STEPHEN HOUSTON Published: Today at 02:13
Green hires £11.5m debt tycoon as business guru
A FAILED tycoon who was made bankrupt with £11.5million debts has been hired by Rangers — as a BUSINESS ADVISOR.
Jim Park is a consultant for Charles Green’s newco and is an old pal of former Rangers owner Craig Whyte’s dad Tom.
Last week he was pictured in the directors’ box taking in the Ramsdens Cup clash at Brechin beside Sandy Jardine, Andy Cameron and new Ibrox chief Green.
The Scottish Sun has discovered the former telecoms boss is behind a string of dissolved companies.
He was made personally bankrupt in 2010 with debts of £11,547,925. Last night a Rangers source said: “Jim Park obviously has a controversial past with the companies he’s been involved with.
“But it’s not a case of him being joined at the hip with Whyte and doing his bidding. He’s been a season ticket holder for 40 years.
“He knows Craig Whyte’s father — he’s an old friend.
However, I don’t think he’s got too high an opinion of Craig himself.”
Sources claim businessman Park is also interested in investing in the club.
The catastrophic reign of Whyte saw Rangers face liquidation and this week they restart life as a newco in the Third Division.
The Scottish Sun investigated Park’s business past and found more than 30 companies linked to him which had folded.
Among them is water cooler firm Powwow Water Company, which plunged into administration in 2010 with the loss of almost 400 jobs.
Shortly after taking over, administrators Deloitte filed a report saying the company’s financial information was “wholly unreliable”.
They slated the firm for “weak financial management and inadequate controls”.
He also faced legal action after claims part of the company’s debts had been sold for a “nominal” fee to firms linked to Park — on the day the company crashed.
Administrators said a bank had to stop him recovering debts due to Powwow. According to the Register of Insolvencies, Park was discharged from bankruptcy last year.
Yesterday a woman answering the intercom at Park’s Dumbarton mansion said he was “unavailable”.
Rangers admitted that Park had provided the club with “business consultancy”.
A spokesman said: “He’s not an employee, shareholder or investor.
“He’s provided consultancy services related to media platforms and content.”
Could the McMurdo post contain info that would form part of Barcaboys nuclear option.if you could prove Murray & Whyte(or his father) were business partners in the past then you’d maybe blow this whole thing apart.BDO will have better resources than us to do just that.
Bill McMurdo sinks Rangers.
If Carlsberg did irony……………………….. 🙂
Timtim … Just read bill mcmurdo’s blog …. And the other pages ….. It’s people like him that will keep Scottish football and culture in the gutter with constant referrals to politics and religion ….. Why can’t we just keep football about football ….. And leave politics to politicians …. And religion to people who actually practice their faith
Wonderful prog on Radio 4 – Morality in Sport, last night. Worth a listen for those inclined.
Essentially, the game is about winning but it is also a morality play on the pitch.
Mihir Bose – author of ‘The Spirit Of The Game’, on the ethics & politics of sport, and the first ‘witness’, hit the ba’ well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01l7wtw
There are so many questions that the SFA are not prepared to answer in regard to Sevco or TRFC being granted full SFA membership.
When did RFC(IA) submit audited accounts in order to maintain their SFA membership, license or share?
If no accounts submitted, was there a rule change to allow Sevco to bypass this requirement?
Who, when and where, were the players registered?
Who submitted the fit and proper test paperwork?
Did the SFA simply accept this statement after the debacle with Craig Whyte?
There is no mention of RFC(IA) share being transferred to Dundee, was it actually transferred?
Were the conditions set for TRFC to accept membership fully agreed and are they written into any agreement?
Will the SFA revoke TRFC SFA membership if TRFC take any legal action to prevent the implementation of the sanctions and penalties handed down from the dual contracts and EBT’s?
Why were TRFC not required to pay monies due to Scottish, English and European clubs prior to obtaining SFA membership?
Was there any time limit set for payment of these football debts?
What rules were created, amended or provide precedence for the giving of a conditional SFA membership?
I know there are probably lots more.
So where are we, after the first weekend of the season ?
Despite all of the predictions, we are not in melt down, much to the disappointment of the so called pundits
So far, they have got nothing right, and I have no reason to believe this will change
Undeterred, they are still predicting disaster within months, and this will only be corrected by ensuring Sevco are back in the SPL as soon as that can be arranged
Their whining about Sevco not being involved on the opening day, was actually quite funny, and totally pathetic
As for Regan and Donkey, their predictions also look foolish, which should come as no surprise, as they have now been outed as bare faced liars
Their attempts to gerrymander and blackmail everyone, have now been shown to be the sad, pathetic tactics that they were
However, do not think for a minute, that any of these parties have given up
Regan and Donkey will shortly ramp up the pressure, aided and abetted by the idiots who pass for the MSM in this country
There are also people involved with other clubs, whose true allegiances are open to doubt
All of these people must be reminded at every opportunity, that they are actually condoning corruption and rule breaking on a scale never before seen in Scottish football
The fight is far from over, and thankfully people like Cosgrove and Thomson are not afraid to tell it like it is
Thanks to this site, we will continue to have a voice, and a chance to have our say on the disgrace that they have advocated and presided over
If there is a silver lining to all of this, it is that these self seem people will be responsible for the final demise of Sevco, because I believe that will be the final outcome
Dundee United are top of the league. Its Armagedddddddddoooooon!
All the comments about SpivCo folding seem to me to be premature; I think when you get such a parcel of rogues gathered in one place (or, Schroedinger-like, having two modes of existence at the same time) there is always the capability of keeping the whole corrupt show on the road. Especially when Dungcaster and Rehab, plus assorted fellow-travellers, seem to be ‘on-side’ as well (or are afraid of being off-side).
The blog needs to remain focused, like the early and middle RTC. Above all, it must be seen as not a ‘football blog’, but as a blog about football, and the issues surrounding Scottish football in particular. And it must be both relentless and impartial.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 5, 2012 at 14:40
2 0 Rate This
There are so many questions that the SFA are not prepared to answer in regard to Sevco or TRFC being granted full SFA membership.
>>>>>
Absolutely. But with Regan’s “draw a line under it” interview with the BBC, the SFA are not expecting to have to answer any of these questions, and will not make any further statements on all these matters unless pressed to do so by an appropriate authority. Uefa/Fifa would be those authorities, but they are remaining silent on all of this.
Re Dual Contracts, the SPL have shown their compliance with this attitude with the most recent announcement, with an independent review set to go ahead, again with no timeline.
Funny thing is that with all these delays and avoidance, they will only increase the frustration felt by the vast majority of people who brought them to account recently, and who will certainly not walk away from this.
And you’re spot on; there is more to come.
Test
Livia Burlando says:
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sarahleyden says:
August 5, 2012 at 07:28
He helpfully provided all the necessary information including deadlines and the hotline number
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That’s appalling. How low can the Herald go? That is well worth a complaint – I’m going to do so right now. Anyone care to join me?
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Could Herald/Wilson be held accountable if problems arise out of this? Worth mentioning perhaps.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 5, 2012 at 14:01
“He also faced legal action after claims part of the company’s debts had been sold for a “nominal” fee to firms linked to Park — on the day the company crashed.”
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According to the second interim report to the creditors of Powwow, Murray Whyte Ltd had provided a guarantee to the bank in relation to the companies secured borrowings.
http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local%20Assets/Documents/Services/CF/Insolvency%20Web%20Team/Powwow/UK_IWT_Powwow_24-3-2011-ScotProgressReport.pdf