The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).
Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.
The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.
The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.
Scottish Football Monitor asks contributors to remember only a few things;
1. The site is not the domain of any one club and is open to fans of all clubs.
2. Absolutely no discussion with regard to religion should take place.
3. Posters should refrain from using foul or abusive language.
Welcome to The Scottish Football Monitor
Richard Cranium @ 21:10
There is quite definitely a distinct sense of worry, and they seem to be trying to call the barbarian horde to arms, and circle the wagons ahead of an anticipated onslaught
Can someone tell me who David Murray is representing with his speech?
This is the guy who would only sell if the buyer was right for Rangers, then ended up “duped”.
His “not on my watch”, will not wash. Is he trying to say that this all happened in the years when he was not Chairman?
More pedantry, and a long time and lots of effort choosing the correct wording has gone into this statement.
I take it, it was a statement and not an interview?, not that it would matter, no one will ask the big questions.
Dr Mike Mc Dermott on twitter reports that you are all now famous in The Urban Dictionary !
Congratulations !
Quote
“Internet Bampot
A person who uses the internet to unmask lies and deception that are portrayed as truth by the main stream media. They then post the findings, with checkable references, on blogs and the likes of Twitter to bring attention to underhand dealings and lies – that have been “glossed over” or ignored by the main stream media to the attention of everyone.
The term is widely used by journalists of the main stream media in Scotland to refer to those unearthing wrong doing in Scottish football, it is used by the main stream media as a form of insult but has been taken up by the so called “internet bampots” as a badge of honour reflecting their ability to dig out the hidden facts ans show the main stream media up for the corrupt, fawning poodles that they have become.
That Phil Mac Giolla Bhain is just an blog writing internet bampot.
Rangers tax case is written by an internet bampot.
I write facts about Scottish footballs underhand dealings the main stream media call me an internet bampot – I’m proud of my badge! “
It was said before on RTC that when a decision was made on the BTC, they would know 7 days before everyone else.
Was RTC in the loop enough to find out at the same time they find out.
Is this the reason RTC wound up. Is it 7 days since RTC his time had come to an end.
Tick Tock went the Taxmans clock.
john clarke says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:11
0 0 i Rate This
Bigrabbit says:
August 6, 2012 at 20:58
‘Marilyn “Minty” Rice-Davies indeed..’
–
Good call. ( I thought her name was Mandy, though.Oldtimers kicking in again, I fear)
TW3 really was ground-breaking stuff, in the days when TV political journalists addressed Home Secretaries and such like as ‘ Sir’, as in ” Is there any little bit of information you care to give us, Sir? No? Thank you, sir, sorry to bother you”. Bit like the succulent lamb brigade’s approach to SDM, come to think of it.
====================================================================
JC….’twas indeed “Mandy”…sorry Bigrabbit.
Also JC, one of your previous posts made a not too generous reference, in your own inimitable eloquent style to that BBC commentator Peter Thompson…I can only agree by gnashing my teeth….very hard!
RTC said.
Lord Wobbly says:
August 6, 2012 at 20:50
2 1 Rate This
Pars Fan says:
August 6, 2012 at 20:37
5 0 Rate This
Be glad when all this is finished and we can move on to getting
rid of the old 11-1 vote that favoured OF and see a fairer share of tv money to all clubs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree iro the voting structure. But lets see this thing finished first.
————
It could take years for this thing to finish and, personally, I’m looking forward to lots of fun along the way but there’s no need to hold off on structural reform in the meantime.
campsiejoe says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:15
0 0 Rate This
Richard Cranium @ 21:10
There is quite definitely a distinct sense of worry, and they seem to be trying to call the barbarian horde to arms, and circle the wagons ahead of an anticipated onslaught
=============
Or it might just be a call to arms as the deadline for ST renewals is tomorrow.
Podcast now up
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/scotland/scotfoot/scotfoot_20120806-1931a.mp3
Oh Dear Lord, please tell me Speirs isn’t being serious
Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
@ChrisGraham76 Not sure what you mean. I’ve said many times RFC could win. Rangers challenged big HMRC claim in CoS for about £37m + pens.
Nothing to report here but some of you might want to bookmark this page.
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2012/
Can I share with you all this scene I have in my head, of a TRFC fan on holiday in Spain who finds himself in a bar, with his 10 year old son, and there’s a number of guys all chatting about their various clubs’ successes the previous season. Dad doesn’t want to join in this footy chat, but he and his son can’t help but overhear what’s being said. The little lad senses his father’s discomfort and, thinking he’ll make his dad proud, jumps up and shouts out ‘Da, tell them about the Ramsden Cup!’ He then dances around singing ‘When the Gers, went up, to lift the Ramsden Cup, We were there…’ His father wallops him around the ear, drags of the bar, and marches him back to their apartment with the wee lad pleading ‘Da, da, what’d I do wrong?’ One day, he’ll know 😉
With appologies to supporters of SFL clubs but I can’t help but feel the Sevco fans must have very mixed, and uncomfortable, feelings about the Ramsden Cup. If they get knocked out by what they see as a ‘diddy team’ they will be immediately embarrassed, but if they win it, the name ‘The Rangers FC’ will be engraved on it, forever.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:22
campsiejoe says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:15
0 0 Rate This
Richard Cranium @ 21:10
There is quite definitely a distinct sense of worry, and they seem to be trying to call the barbarian horde to arms, and circle the wagons ahead of an anticipated onslaught
=============
Or it might just be a call to arms as the deadline for ST renewals is tomorrow
========================================
A Sevco “deadline for ST renewals” must go down as one the modern worlds greatest oxymorons 😀
Good Evening.
Let me ask a question: Have you ever stopped and thought about how you go about producing a Radio Programme. It might be one with music and so on, or it might be a talk show– or indeed a mixture of both?
Well let me reveal– not so much a secret– as just a process that is logical.
Radio Programmes are produced from the end to the start. If the programme is 2 hours long, the studio clock– or should I say the really important studio clock — will start at 2:00:00 and proceed to 1:59:59 and work its way down. This is the way that a producer times the show. If a music piece lasts 5 Mins and 5 seconds then that time– less say a few seconds is then worked into the timing and deducted from the time allocated to the show. This process then goes on until the whole show is covered.No other clock matters– and nothing stops the clock other than the end of the show!!
Further, the announcer or DJ will have a script as often as not– or at least they used to— and each spoken piece will also have a time allocated to it– and this is then taken account of when working out the timings on the show.
So that is how it is done— Backwords! Tic Toc goes the backwards clock.
Backwards thinking is perfectly logical, and so with that in mind, I now invite you to review Sir David Murray’s statement of Today— Backwards. You might find it illuminating.
By that I don’t mean you should read the statement from the end back to the start. No, what I mean is that you should read the statement from the viewpoint from the end of the “process” that this sorry legal saga has taken— in other words from the point of view of the Liquidators. They are the guys who are left with the husk that is Rangers PLC– they are the guys who legally have to wind up the business of Rangers PLC, and as has been pointed out, these are the guys who have the right to investigate and, if necessary, pursue those responsible for the failure of the business.
Everything that you hear coming from Ally, Minty, Big Eck, Walter, Wee Billy and everyone else should be looked at from their perspective… and in that way you will see why it was said and what they are actually saying.Everything that is said by those named above are aimed at the Liquidators– not the fans, not the SPL, not Harper McLeod, not the press– just the Liquidators! No one else counts.
Remember always, that the liquidator can only take action against certain people– Directors, shadow Directors, and others responsible for the “management” of the company. They are not the Liquidators of the MIH trust and so have no power over the trust itself— that is a completely separate legal entity with, as Sir Minty has pointed out, independent Trustees and so on.
Also– you should be aware that in normal circumstances, a liquidator can undo transactions which were not in the best interests of the company– for example selling an asset at undervalue– or making a completely discretionary gift to someone for no apparent reason— but only if it happened within a period of 5 years prior to the date of their appointment.
That 5 year period can be extended— If the Liquidator thinks that there has been some kind of Fraud. Fraud ,of course, requires a higher legal standard of wrongdoing and is harder to prove— though obviously it is not impossible.Fraud also carries heavier penalties than just maladministration or mismanagement.
However, it should always be remebered that once you have rolled a heavy ball up the hill and it starts to roll down the other side, anyone wanting to shove it back up faces an even heavier task—- once the pieces that show Fraud fall into place on the face of it— the defence really has to go some to reverse the interpretation of the evidence, and avoid the conclusion that a Fraud occured.
So, with all of that in mind, have a look again at what Sir David Murray had to say today. Don’t think of the SPL dual contracts investigation– that is not what Murray’s statement is about– look at it from the point of view that he is trying to save his personal skin! The Liquidators have a duty to get money back in to Rangers PLC in the interests of that company’s creditors. If it succeeds in collecting a sufficient sum of money so that the creditors can be paid, then of course the Directors can sleep easy in their bed at night.
It is logical for the Liquidators to start by getting back the money that Rangers PLC just gave away— to the trustees of the MIH EBT.
The Liquidator, says to the Trustees, ” Give me back all that money– let’s start with the money given in the last 5 years for now!”.
” We don’t have it– we loaned it out” says the trustees!
Well– Today Sir David Murray has told the world that that money was loaned out with a specific set of repayment dates and with accruing interest. Oh yes, it might be some date in the future, but the money is due to come back at some point– all of it– at least every last penny that was the subject of a loan!!
Of course, the Liquidator can’t pursue the players directly– he is not the liquidator of the trust– but hey he/she can bring big big pressure on the trustees of that trust– especially if there is an allegation that they too were party to a fraud.
The sensible trustee, sitting on a series of loan notes, will be best advised to go collect the money just as fast as possible.If that means he has to accept 50p in the pound loaned out , then hey, …. a trustee has gotta do what a trustee has gotta do at times!!
The players? Oh they may well have indemnities– but correct me if I am wrong– weren’t those indemnities against there being tax due on the money? They were not indemnities against ever having to repay the loans– unless of course there are indemnities from someone who says that the loans are never to be repaid at all– and if they exist– then of course there were never any loans in the first place– were there? And documents which purport to set out one legal position but which really mask another– in most cases show Prima Facie evidence of………. frau! The land where no one wants to go!.
Will the players want to admit that they or their advisors were party to a crime? No Chance– they will run a mile– even pay back a proportion of a loan they thought they would never be called upon to repay.
At least…. that is one theory.
So– go on— look at what Murray said. He said, that each and every one of the “loans” was due to be repaid. Will the players agree to repay a proportion of those loans— even if it is only some of the money they received for a quick and dirty settlement—- or be faced with potential involvement in a criminal case?
You can bet some will and in that way some money starts to come back into the Rangers PLC coffers– and the more money comes back into the Rangers PLC coffers the less Sir David and his fellow Directors will have to find personally.
This statement today has little to do with the SPL enquiry– other than that the SPL enquiry might throw up some evidence that might not suit those who were previously in charge of Rangers PLC.
No– David Murray was not protecting his former employees today– he was selling them down the legal river– and telling everyone about it. The players— and others—- borrowed that money and it is due to be repaid no matter what any documents delivered to anyone says. Or else! That is today’s Murray Message.
What a parcel of Rogues? Undoubtedly!
However, if just one righteous man among the EBT beneficaries told the FTT the truth, then today’s statement may just be redundant.
Meanwhile—————-Tic Tic Toc goes the studio clock—- because nothing stops the clock other than the end of the show!
Good to see the war continues although without a single issue to rally against it will be hard to maintain focus.
Thanks PL, chust sublime.
Richard Cranium says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:10
The drivel of the past 24 hours must mean that the tribunal is imminent……within 2 days i’d say. Enjoy it now…….it will be beautiful
___________________________________________________
Fingers crossed! I fervently hope so.
Sign of progress when we see (-S)DM passing up the chance to grandstand to his chosen few journalists over a ‘house’ Domaine Jessiaume to accompany the obligatory lamb.
Without RTC and now SFM, this would not have happened.
If there was one person I fervently hoped would TUPE over here, it was BRTH. Once again, an engaging read, and keeps us all optimistic that truth and justice will prevail.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:38
‘Backwords! Tic Toc goes the backwards clock..’
—–
A most excellent and instructive analogy. Thank you.
Again guys apologies if this has been posted already.
This guy is a tax specialist apparently.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11639798&t=8719788
EBTs – what’s that all about then? – It’s a tax avoidance scheme designated by HMRC to fall foul of disguised remuneration rules.
Disguised remuneration? – Generally when an employer and employee work together to make a payment from the employer to the employee that avoids tax and National Insurance Contributions (or social security in non-UK countries) by exploiting a loophole in a country’s tax rules.
Such as? – Long Term Investment Plans, Share Incentive Plans and EBTs.
So who did what? – David Murray met a guy – who smoked a pipe – with huge sideburns (not Donald Findlay – there was no flute) who had a great idea he was hawking around. He’d been made aware of a loophole in UK tax legislation where companies could use an existing scheme called an Employee Benefit Trust to pay their employees for work they had done – but the company and employee would not pay tax or NIC on the payments made.
How so? – By using a 3rd party trust fund. The employer would dump a pot of money in there and then the employees would write a letter to the trust fund manager asking for a loan.
A loan? – Yeah, but not a normal loan with a repayment schedule and monthly repayment amounts.
Eh? – Look, don’t bother with this. The loan is only a mechanism. It forms part of the tax loophole Mr Sideburns McPornographer had identified. By paying the money in the form of a loan – that would never need to be repaid – everybody would come out happy.
Anything else? – Yes, generally – the loans are never repaid because the trust is offshore and before any repayments are made, the trust is renamed or collapsed.
Sounds a bit fishy to me – It is, because in the UK people are taxed based on their residence. If you spend 183 days in the UK in any UK tax year you are taxed on your worldwide income – subject to available reliefs and if you are a non-UK person also subject to the remittance basis.
What’s that then? – don’t bother with that either – it’s fairly new and doesn’t really effect the early years of the EBT scheme Rangers used.
So residence yeah? – Yeah, that’s the basis of how you are taxed in the UK.
OK, so people who didn’t spend 183 days in the UK in a year – are they safe or will HMRC want their money back? – Possibly they will be safe. If the trust followed the guidelines and the employee left the UK before the loan repayments were due, and the trust was shifted around – they might escape any problems.
So what about Billy Dodds? Well from what I recall he remained in the UK whilst with and after leaving Rangers did he not? So therefore he was resident in the UK and should have paid tax on the payment. He wasn’t really eligible to receive an EBT in the first place.
He wasn’t eligible? – Not really, because the payment he received, which was to pay up his contract, was not really a discretionary payment. This point could be argued but really in UK taxation it comes down to both his residence and what the payment was for. He had a contract, that contract was terminated and he was paid an amount. It’s not really discretionary is it?
Oooooh – Ooh indeed, and while we are on the subject of people who were probably not eligible let’s look at Martin Bain.
As long as we’re not looking at his dreadful modelling pics! – we’re not, but he also seems to have broken the rules of the EBT because he explicitly asked for a payment from the scheme in lieu of his employment with Rangers.
So he did – I saw that documentary. – Brilliant wasn’t it, so anyway, one of the key things about an EBT is that you need to adhere to the very stringent rules governing the scheme and if you don’t and you make a complete dog’s dinner of it, the whole scheme could fail.
What does that mean? – Well it means if HMRC can pick up enough little bits and pieces of information about the scheme and how badly and incorrectly it was run, then a lot of poeple could be in a lot of trouble.
For avoiding tax? Actually, it could be for evading tax. When you blatantly break the rules of the scheme and then try to hide it you are effectively evading tax, not avoiding it. Avoiding it is working within a pre-approved HMRC scheme to minimise a tax bill.
Oh – Yeah, and evading it is when you call in a huge shredder van and start trying to cover your tracks.
Is Souness in trouble too? – Probably not, he was not an employee and was therefore at liberty to apply to the thrid party scheme for a loan.
Sounds a bit suss though. – Sure does.
So who are the main players in this?
1. Rangers FC
2. Everybody who was employed by the club and received a EBT.
3. HMRC
4. The trust
5. Sideburns McShagger
Will HMRC go after the players for their money? – probably not. Under PAYE it is the employer’s responsibility to deduct and pay over tax to HMRC.
Will HMRC go after the non-employees like Souness? -probably not but Souness should be investigated for the payment he received.
Will HMRC go after Rangers? Which Rangers?
New Rangers! – No, they said they wouldn’t, but if new Rangers keep going the way they are they can expect a visit from trading standards and that could involve HMRC again.
Why? – Because they are acting just like old Rangers, using their name and it seems, signing the same old duds for over-inflated fees.
What about old Rangers? – No, they are dead and HMRC said they would not go after them.
Well dammit who are they going after? – The men at the top. Most likely Murray and Bain.
Anybody else? – it depends how much everyone drags their feet and who accepts responsibility. If everybody blames each other HMRC could actually decide to go after all individuals but that would be costly and time consuming.
So what about trophies? Why are we hearing chat about this? – Because as you can see above, Rangers have escaped the clutches of HMRC to a large degree but the titles they won were won by players who were being furnished with monies that the SFA did not know about and that is against the SFA rules.
But it was a loan from a third party was it not? That is the argument my friend and it will go on for a while yet.
Didn’t Celtic have an EBT? – Look, I’ve been nice so far, the two cases are completely different that’s all I’m saying.
What about Pacific Shelf… WHACK!
Correct me if I’m wrong on any of the above folks, just effing around but think most of what I have posted is accurate.
Anyone else picking up the wee rumour that salaries have not been paid at Ibrokes?
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:38
====================
You’ve missed nothing; we’ve all just been chatting waiting for you to arrive.
Showstopper of a post.
So……just say RFC(IL) win the FTT appeal – what would happen to oldco? Or was this Bill Millers Two Brains One Body (or whatever) scenario?
Greetings to all on the new site, and I hope the standard of posting remains as high as it was on RTC.
My financial education comes solely from what I picked up on RTC, so, apologies as ever if I’m barking up the wrong tree…
If, as (S)DM has stated, the EBT’s were indeed loans to players, should the figures not have been included in some ‘monies owed’ to RFC in their annual accounts?
BRT&H
Brilliant thinking, wonderful post!
Will any of the MSM get their heads around this? Who would they target? The players they fawn over or SDM who they fawn over, or RFC as was which they also fawn over?
Similarly, a terrible stomache churning dilemma for any EBT beneficiaries who might be keeping watch on this site, hands over their eyes, keeking through their fingers…trying to remember what they said to the FTT if they were asked. Will any crack and produce any evidence that will stop them having to repay loans but maybe pay tax, and be a possible target for non decent bears? or keep schtum and risk being caught up in the fallout.
CFCblog on KDS.
“That statement is Murray’s desperate attempt to kill the SPL investigation stone dead before it even gets the chance to assess the evidence.
His claims about the EBTs are simply a rehash of his doomed defence in the First Tier Tribunal (Tax) hearings.
All of which was blown away by written evidence that players could expect, for example, large “loans” for every game played plus, of course, written confirmation that they would not have to repay any “loan”.
In short, there is overwhelming “prima facie” evidence that Rangers channeled sizeable and previously-agreed — but, crucially, undeclared — “performance” payments to players via offshore trusts with the aim of avoiding income tax and National Insurance payments . . .
Thus giving them a significant, though illegal, edge in being able to attract and afford sought-after players.
The payments were non-discretionary.
It was cheating, totally against the rules of the SFA, SPL and FIFA. It was sanctioned from the top. And Sir Minty Moonbeams knows it.
He wants the SPL/SFA case stopped right now before the prosecution evidence is presented.
We can expect a boak-inducing opus from his lapdog Jabba tomorrow that will support his demand.
But it won’t succeed.
Justice is coming down the tracks at 80mph.”
Great stuff as usual BRTH. Good to see you making your presence felt on the newco blog.
At least we can thank (-S)DM for helping kickstart TSFM into life this afternoon. The explosion of articulate and logical indignation, and the Big Hitters of RTC coming out on cue, signals a bright future at TSFM.
The accountants on KDS are having a field day tonight 🙂
From ‘Chalmers’
“The transfer of funds from the club to the benefit of the player is not a loan, but a permanent ‘gift’ or payment. The money goes into a discretionary trust which becomes, in effect, the property of the trustees (probably Jersey-based) who will have discretion to pay the beneficiary of the trust, i.e. the player. So when the trust is set up, Rangers no longer have a right to the money, so in that sense, it is not a loan from Rangers FC.
The trustees can then do nothing, invest for growth and/or income, pay the beneficiary, or grant a loan to the beneficiary. If the money is paid to the beneficiary, it will reflect the tax status of that person at the time of payment from the trust. So for instance, instead of paying 50% tax if he was resident in the UK, he may have later moved to a low tax zone (e.g. Jersey) and pay only 20% instead. But the majority of beneficiaries would, I expect, have decided to borrow from the trust, making them liable for only a benefit in kind exposure (about 2%) if still employed by RFC, or possibly not even that if they had left RFC.
Murray says that the loans were from a discretionary trust and therefore not a Rangers decision, which is true. However, the funds were paid into the trust by RFC in the first place, and if there is any agreement – written or otherwise – that the player was entitled to this EBT, then tax should have been paid up front by RFC before the EBT was even set up. This is where Murray will come a cropper.”
OLE MUNGO BHOY says:
August 6, 2012 at 19:52
10 0 i
Rate This
Scotland Behave says:
August 6, 2012 at 16:28
“Since 2001 when the EBT scheme was introduced, the amounts contributed were disclosed in the audited financial statements of the Club. These audited accounts were provided to the SFA and SPL as required”.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Always on the lookout for weasel words me—— must be my lack of private school education.
Take the above ———- ” disclosed in audited financial STATEMENTS ” (my CAPS) becomes “these audited ACCOUNTS” (my CAPS) …..”.provided to the SFA and SPL as REQUIRED” (my CAPS).
What’s the difference between” audited financial statements” and “audited accounts ” and who does the “requiring “, the SFA and SPL ? Is it a case if you don’t ask you don’t get or is Dodgy Dave accusing the SFA and the SPL of being in full possesion of the facts surrounding his use of EBT’s?
The audited statements /accounts also included a valuation of of Ibroke/Moses park /Dandelion Corner of £105 million……. all now gone to a lucky punter for £5.5 million so how reliable are the auditors ? Not very I suggest.
Can anyone clarify or elucidate ?
Puzzled
=========================================================================
OMB…I do think our old “alma mater” provided me, at least, with a vastly superior education that some of my professional colleagues acquired, and at massive expense to their parents…I am just glad I did not have any private school fees to finance in Englandshire, such is the paucity of the end product.
However, the terms “Audited Financial Statements” and “Audited Accounts” are effectively the same. The only area which may not be common to both is the Directors’ Report, which is not, stricly speaking, part of the audited accounts. However, where the Directors’ Report contains any information which is misleading or not consistent with the “audited accounts”, the auditor is duty bound to disclose this in the audit report.
I did post on RTC (bless the memory!) as to the nonsense as to what is included under “Property”.
It is not intended to be a valuation but emanates from an accounting convention, now probably outdated…but I do sympathise with the outrage of the “fire-sale” price which Duff and Phelps “achieved” with Mr Green. I just hope BDO will challenge it, but I doubt it.
Test
selfassessor says:
August 6, 2012 at 20:40
4 0 i Rate This
I saw this post from De profundis while I was using BalckBerry but couldn’t respond. he captures my sentiments exactly and I had tears rolling down my cheeks when I read it – thanks for the laugh De P and thanks TSFM for removing the space aliens which reduced the seriousness of the subject matter!
De Profundis says:
August 4, 2012 at 00:05
I wish RTC had never left, I bloddy hate the alien face which stares at me when I’m trying to post, and try as I might, I can’t change it, Gravytar won’t accept either the username or email which are displayed right below, I give up, away to bed. Hopefully you can see the thing with the green face.
————————————–
De Profundis says:
August 4, 2012 at 00:06
Ah, Sweet Jesus, would you look at it!
=========================================================================
Selfassessor…it made me spit my coffee all over my new laptop…and the warranty does not cover such mis-use!
De Profundis, please consider others in future before posting such gems…my shoulders were “perpetual motion” for a good hour afterwards!
PS I have started again…shoulders are no longer mine!
campsiejoe says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:27
Oh Dear Lord, please tell me Speirs isn’t being serious
Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
@ChrisGraham76 Not sure what you mean. I’ve said many times RFC could win. Rangers challenged big HMRC claim in CoS for about £37m + pens.
————————————————————————————————————-
Spiers has also said they could lose the case so in actual fact, he could say he was right.
It doesn’t happen often with Spiers 🙂
campsiejoe says:
August 6, 2012 at 20:56
22 1 i
Rate This
Another question David
If the EBTs were really vehicles for loans which have to be repaid, they would not be subject to tax or NI
So, why are you trying to justify their use as a vehicle for tax evasion ?
After all you idiot, as an employee, you only pay tax and NI on earned income, or has that escaped your notice ?
==========================================================================
Whilst not my area of specialisation, I am aware that loans made to employees, for whatever purpose, and subsequently written off in the accounts, i.e. no longer repayable, may result in a tax and NIC charge on the recipient, as deemed to be remuneration.
Where loans to directors are concerned, it can get awfully complicated.
Our resident tax specialist JJ may care to clarify.
So, perhaps Sir David can enlighten us as to the repayment terms and dates for the £6M he personally benefitted from via withdrawals from his EBT scheme during his tenure at Rangers?
THE FUTURE Of TSFM
I have read various Mission Statements on TSFM. “Asking the questions the media don’t ask.”, “The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).”, “The MSM have provided no sensible checks and balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.”, “The Scottish Football Monitor is following the lead of Rangers Tax Case in an attempt to hold the Scottish mainstream press to account and to question. If they do not ask the difficult questions, we will.”
Early days, I know, but how do we think it’s going?
There is still a stream of articles in the MSM spouting lies and incorrect information and, recently advertising Rangers season ticket sales. All in the name of journalism. Incredible.
Without TSFM I would not know a lot of this stuff (big shout out to Stunney!).
Raising awareness amongst ourselves, however, is not enough. We should all be emailing editors and journalists to point out these, no doubt unintended, errors. Most of us don’t have time to search for the right address to send to (a Keyboard Warrior’s got to eat). If there was an accurate list of email addresses somewhere on this site it would be easy for us all to copy & paste to provide checks and balances to editors and journalists while at the same time, by namechecking TSFM, raising it’s profile
Email addresses also for all club chairmen, broadcasting producers, governing bodies. Make the site into a resource for fans of our game (you know, 11 against 11)
There has been talk recently about inviting Stuart Cosgrove to do a guest blog. A good idea. Why not ask somebody like Cosgrove to conduct interviews with journos, club chairmen, former club chairmen, heads of football authorities, broadcasting companies. Those interviews to be published here. Refusals to be published here. Again, raising the profile.
You see where I’m going here? Raise the profile of TSFM.
Raise the profile and TSFM becomes a real player in the name of truth and integrity. TSFM applies for press accreditation (however that works). Then we are asking the questions. All answers published here. The greater the profile, the bigger the question.
An annual award ceremony, with an award for good journalism and another for hack of the year. Raise the profile. The higher the profile the more truth will be heard.
The idea, posted here, of a newspaper boycott. Hvndreds of emails to editors or publishers detailing inaccuracies, notifying dates boycott will be carried out. Orchestrated under the umbrella of TSFM.
There must be more we can do.
Any other ideas? How do we achieve them?
Lifted from KDS
*********************************************************************************************************************
Wanyerma
6 Aug 2012, 09:55 PM
From Brogan Rogan Trevino on RTC blog:
http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/about-the-the-scottish-football-monitor/comment-page-26/#comment-1868
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good Evening…
Murray has eventually shafted everyone he’s ever had dealings with. Joe Lewis, Martin Bain, Dave King, Alistair Johnston, JJB and now the players. Looks like the only friends he has left are Walter Smith and Ally McCoist, the only two that have not been mentioned in connection with ANY payment schemes or any questionable procedure within RFC. Incredible really.
Para Handy says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:38
2 0 i
Rate This
Good to see the war continues although without a single issue to rally against it will be hard to maintain focus.
Thanks PL, chust sublime.
========================================================================
PH…nice to see you posting…chust marvellous.
I hope you are settling in ok.
nowoldandgrumpy says: August 6, 2012 at 21:24 1 0 Rate This
Podcast up now
__________________________
Thank you
So according Dodds and Mcleish, a big boy (aka adviser) did it and ran away – honest guv I just signed the papers.
Absolute comedy gold !
Essex beancounter says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:08
‘….It is not intended to be a valuation but emanates from an accounting convention…’
—–
I suppose someone who once got 22% for a maths paper from wee Sweeney in Rigby St shouldn’t ask questions the answer to which he not only doesn’t know but is very probably incapable of understanding! But, is there no actual legislation to prevent either a company putting a wholly unrealistically high value on their property assets ( a la SDM, to boost the supposed value) or ‘Administrators’ putting an absurdly low figure to reduce the selling price so that some shyster can buy cheaply?
Or is it all just ‘convention’, with external auditors powerless to question the valuations stated in the accounts that they are auditing?
When BDO take over from duff and duffer can they try and call in the loans that players and employees got.
As I have long expected, the defense will be that regardless of what the FTT says, the footballing rules were not broken.
However, surely the person to sort this out will be Campell Ogilvie, the country’s top football adminstrator with a series of postions on his CV at top clubs and the SFA over a few decades.
As he admitted he is not an accountant or a lawyer but a ‘football administrator’, therefore he must know the answer as to whther or not the EBT’s needed to be declared on players contracts to comply not only with SPL/SFA requirements but those of UEFA and FIFA as well.
If he does not know then why was he being paid in previous posts and why is he being paid now?
Interesting sound bite from the Billy Dodds interview last Friday, apologies for para phrasing his words: the players did not get any extra competitive advantage from being paid via an EBT – so why should titles be stripped? The players played on the park.
Sounds as if Billy has been briefed to put out that particulair line of spin.
Interesting spin, although not very conviencing.
Has anyone asked billy dodds if he has paid back one penny of the loans he got through the EBT and if not was it because he thought it was part of his wages if so why has he not paid the tax and N.I that he avoided paying, just a thought.
SDM tried to outwit Hector by avoiding tax
He should take a lesson from CW
Craigie never has any income of his own.He`s probably due rebates from HMRC
All his dough is in the name of his companies and all his expenses are paid by his companies. They order what he needs and don`t pay the creditors
When tax is due or Creditors get miffed he liquidates the business
The only bills he pays are Companies House fees ,Lawyers and Liquidators
………………
He`s a rascal
But he took the first step in cleaning up Scottish Football
Unwittingly of course
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says: August 6, 2012 at 21:38
____________________
Superb – if I had a hat I would tip it.
1. john clarke says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:11
Rate This
Bigrabbit says:
August 6, 2012 at 20:58
‘Marilyn “Minty” Rice-Davies indeed..’
–
Good call. ( I thought her name was Mandy, though.Oldtimers kicking in again, I fear)
TW3 really was ground-breaking stuff, in the days when TV political journalists addressed Home Secretaries and such like as ‘ Sir’, as in ” Is there any little bit of information you care to give us, Sir? No? Thank you, sir, sorry to bother you”. Bit like the succulent lamb brigade’s approach to SDM, come to think of it.
She was in fact known as Mandy (you are right) but real first name Marilyn.
Yes misspent youth, reading the “news”papers I delivered, which I have no use for, about 9 years, now, (ageing internet bampot) no attic for me I am out in the open.
However this turned up: Lies, damned lies, and Scottish football journalism.
in a Google search. It was about football, and sorry, but I am an agnostic where football is concerned, I am also teamless, but what were these lies?
So I read all the posts and with each revelation, I could not look away, and I know there are more like me who are now “clued up” thanks to RTC, and we are the “rest” of the Scottish public, who like me, are appalled, but not surprised, at the media cabal which has mislaid its conscience. So you are not just addressing football fans you do have a wider audience. Keep going, I am convinced there is more out there and light IS the best disinfectant.
highlandjaggy says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:44
Has anyone asked billy dodds if he has paid back one penny of the loans he got through the EBT and if not was it because he thought it was part of his wages if so why has he not paid the tax and N.I that he avoided paying, just a thought.
========================================================
There is no point in wondering if anybody has asked him. Why don’t we (TSFM) ask him.
Since 2008 at least, the Fifa minimum requirements for Professional Footballer Player Contracts appear to ask that all the clubs financial obligations are to be detailed and this includes salary and other benefits. See section 4 of the document below.
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/97/29/01/circularno.1171-professionalfootballplayercontractminimumrequirements.pdf
The key word here is ‘benefit’, as in Employee Benefit Trust.
The lawyers will of course argue the toss but anyone with one ounce of common sense knows a scam when it is being shoved in our face.
Highlandjaggy
——————–
Simple. His advisor told him to sign the forms.
No problem, end of story.
He told this to a reporter last week.
Why explain further.
Hugh, Corsica, Mr Walnuts and Barca, why don’t you drop by and say hello? Yer friends here are doing admirable work, but your additional dry wit, stirling insights, impeccable analysis and
factual bombshells are eagerly awaited and sorely missed. So don’t be shy…..
Sláinte
Interesting that among all the concerted excuses round the EBT issue, up pops one Neil Patey, an ‘independent’ tax expert, telling us that ‘Rangers’ have not been found ‘guilty’ of anything and that they may well be ‘right’. When they wheel Neil out, you know the jig is up and that they’re as guilty as sin.
Any of our real tax experts care to comment on just how much Neil doesn’t know, based on just how wrong he’s been in this whole saga?
longtimelurker on August 6, 2012 at 21:29
1 0 Rate This
Nothing to report here but some of you might want to bookmark this page.
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2012/
—————————————————–
Had a quick look through some of the cases and was interested to find that Paul McStay was successful in a FTTT appeal in January.
test
Long Time Lurker says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:37
‘…the players did not get any extra competitive advantage from being paid via an EBT – so why should titles be stripped? The players played on the park.’
—-
Interesting spin indeed, but still a spin .
I admit, though, that I would feel bloody annoyed at losing a medal because my ‘boss’, unknown to me, had been caught ( like Saudis playing what looked like 25 year olds in that boys’ tournament game at Tyncastle in the middle ”80s) rigging the game by playing players of a quality he could never have legitimately afforded to buy and breaking rules in so doing.
Difference is, I would have a go at my ‘boss’, and not expect the match authorities to allow him to get away with it.
if I were personally innocent.
So Ally McCoist reckons it’s a waste of time folk looking into any dual contracts issue. His reason being nothing other than somebody told him so. This is the guy who believed everything Craig Whyte told him for about nine months before Rangers crashed and burned. Me thinks Ally protest too much.
And just to raise an old chestnut.
Can anyone remind us what advantage Spartans were trying to gain by not correctly dating (two were required) a players registration that got them thrown out the Scottish Cup?
Once again if the likes Ogilvie, Regan and the comnpliance officers are so sharp on picking up the the fine details of player contracts for a minor club then then the EBT scheme being run at at the ‘world’s most successful club’ should be easliy solved one way or the other?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15672375
Following varous comments earlier, I made the mistake of looking at RM tonight. My wife is now refusing to let me sleep in the same bed, because I needed to drink quite a lot of alcohol following that “encounter”.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says: August 6, 2012 at 21:38
Pleased to see your characteristically excellent post tonight, also hoping to see Corsica and Barca join us soon.
highlandjaggy,
Wee Billy ‘I ain’t heard of no EBT’ Doddsy, has happily confirmed(after some bampot prodding) that his EBT was a contractual payment to settle the remainder of his contract when he left Deid Rangers. He has also stated that the payment he received was the amount he was due after tax.
Yes, a a complete contradiction of Mintys ‘line’.
In other news today. Ben Johnson denies taking drugs. Tyson denies biting Holyfield. Maradona denies handball. The Black Sox deny fixing the World Series. Michael Fish denies there’s a hurricane imminent but concedes there may be storm clouds on the horizon.
As Billy said, “The full story is that David Murray came to me and asked if I would receive a payment that was due to me, after tax, through the EBT trust. And I said that I would. It was money that was owing to me when I had six months left on my contract and I moved to Dundee United. After the tax was deducted, that money was put in the trust fund.”
Wouldn’t have sounded like a load to me either to be fair.
Folks on Billy Dodds:
Billy Dodds has stated that he personally was approached by Sir David Murray and was asked if he would accept his severence payment being paid to him through the EBT– after deduction of Tax!!
Dodds had no side letter,no supposed loan, nothing.
He was told that his employers has paid the tax on the £190,000 severeance payment and he was told that personally by Sir David Murray. This is the stated record of Billy Dodds.
If…. that tax was not in fact paid——– what has Billy Dodds to say about that and about Sir David Murray’s discussion with him?
—————————————————————————————————————————–
On a separate note– are we about to see Lloyds TSB do an HBOS by selling Murray’s Metal interests out from under the MIH banner to a new co formed by the family?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-18747141
john clarke says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:34
1 0 i
Rate This
Essex beancounter says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:08
‘….It is not intended to be a valuation but emanates from an accounting convention…’
—–
I suppose someone who once got 22% for a maths paper from wee Sweeney in Rigby St shouldn’t ask questions the answer to which he not only doesn’t know but is very probably incapable of understanding! But, is there no actual legislation to prevent either a company putting a wholly unrealistically high value on their property assets ( a la SDM, to boost the supposed value) or ‘Administrators’ putting an absurdly low figure to reduce the selling price so that some shyster can buy cheaply?
Or is it all just ‘convention’, with external auditors powerless to question the valuations stated in the accounts that they are auditing?
========================================================================
JC….Accounting regulations demand that directors of a PLC, such as Rangers, include the property assets at “market value” . This would normally involve an external firm of surveyors or equivalent performing a valuation at “market value” and is normally done every five years in such cases. The directors may also disclose the name of the firm making the valuation.
However there is no obligation on the directors to incorporate this valuation in the accounts, but this would normally lead to a qualified audit report being produced. The auditor does not necessarilly have to comment on the amount of the valuation, leaving that to the firm who did the valuation.
What happened in the case of the final balance sheet of RFC(IA) appears to be that historical costs have been accumulated well in excess of market value. The £5.5m “fire-sale” by Duff and Phelps may be on the basis of some valuation, I do not know. However, I have to question, as I hope BDO will, the apparent urgency to accept such a low total price/bid from Mr Green and hois consortium…I smell something on the bottom of my shoe here…!
“loan” not “load”..
longtimelurker says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:29
Nothing to report here but some of you might want to bookmark this page.
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2012/
Superb. Couldn’t find where FTTT posted decisions on the FTTT site. Perhaps I’m thick.
WOTTPI says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:36
SDM said ebts stopped being tax efficient. Tax efficient for whom? Rangers or the players or both?
Now if it was only for Rangers that would mean that all the savings on tax accrued would fall to Rangers. Bythat I mean if an ebt allowed a player to get £10k pw take home and that saved Rangers paying him £14k to get £10k then it was Rangers who benefitted from the ebt. However if the £4k saved through the ebt was split between Rangers and the player so that Rangers saved £2k and the player got £12k then both benefitted but that means it was the players remuneration that increased and that increased take home wage is what should have been declared. If the player got the full difference ie £14k then there was no tax gain for Rangers at all which begs the question why adopt a tax scheme that did not benefit the tax burden of the company?
If it was used not for tax efficient purposes but as suspected to increase a players take home pay it was a form of remuneration and if there was a side letter covering the difference then it was contractural, but with or without a side letter it was not adopted on tax efficiency grounds but to make Rangers more wage competitive and so more sporting competitive and the tax difference should have been declared as a form of remuneration.
Had it been, serving both Rangers and the player or the player only and declared, the SFA and Rangers were then taking the risk that it was legal. However if Rangers did not declare ebt arrangement with individual players to the SFA this suggests they were not prepared to take the risk of being told it amounted to additional remuneration and so stopped the question even being asked.
Campbell Ogilvie will surely know how the tax efficiency accrued from ebt usage was spent and be able to make a judgement if this gave Rangers a wage competitive advantage by a means they did not share with the SFA when registering the contract details.
Bigrabbit says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:50
‘…She was in fact known as Mandy (you are right) but real first name Marilyn.
Yes misspent youth, reading the “news”papers I delivered, which I have no use for, about 9 years, now, (ageing internet bampot) no attic for me I am out in the open.’
–
Well, there you are!
Thank you for that, Bigrabbit.
You might incidentally be able to confirm, from your reading of the papers at the time, whether what I used to swear I read about the main character-Christine Keeler was true.
I was abroad at the time, but in an English newspaper ( two days late was the norm) I am sure I read that she had, literally, dirty heels.
That is, she was in some respects a clatty messin, not being too particular about personal cleanliness.
I was too young and inocent then, to be aware that that might have been some kind of kinky thing that Profumo shared with the Russian.( Where is Baxendale when you need him?)
And too young and innocent to have dreamt it up, surely?
highlandjaggy on August 6, 2012 at 22:44
The question really should be:
why, after claiming all the tax was paid by the club on his (golden goodbye) severance pay/ termination clause, does wee Billy Dodds now say it was a loan?
BowenBoys says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:24
19 0 Rate This
THE FUTURE Of TSFM
this is precisely the reason for fans of football uniting into one organised body that can speak with one voice to MSM and chairmen alike without fear nor favour. i strongly advocate such a body and welcome any ideas on how this can be achieved.
What’s the betting the FTTT finds Rankers guilty. Murray/Whyte and a host of others are found guilty and sent to prison. None of it appears in the Scottish Newspapers and the SFA ignore it as they’d already drawn a line under it all ages ago. 🙂
TheBlackKnight TBK on August 6, 2012 at 23:19
Is he?! 😯
john clarke says:
August 6, 2012 at 20:18
21 1 Rate This
My wife has not long returned from meeting friends in Glasgow.
______________________________________________________________________
Right Clarke outside, now!
I do the rumours and other sh!te round here son, got that!?
🙂
Essex beancounter says:
August 6, 2012 at 22:33
3 0 Rate This
Para Handy says:
August 6, 2012 at 21:38
PH…nice to see you posting…chust marvellous.
I hope you are settling in ok.
————————————–
Good; thank you for asking, although office too close to some of the Soho pubs…
Glad to see the pressure ramping up wrt Murray’s diversionary mutterings. Surprised Spiers hasn’t jumped all over him as there is no love lost there.
Mind you, Spiers has shown himself to be so small-minded and parochial in this affair that I was hardly surprised to find him making what can only be described as careless, racist tweets on the Olympics.
Unfortunately the MSM in Scotland is now reduced mainly to regurtitating press releases and personal statements with no test of their accuracy. It used to be that sports reporting was always looked upon as a bit of a joke by the more serious areas of news. It would now seem that in Scotland the rest of the news categories are going that way and my only hope is that places such as these will continue to shed light on not just footballing corruption but that found in other areas.
I used to read all the posts on RTC and unfortunately won’t be able to do so here but I will still bring The Vital Spark into port from time to time.
Chust sublime, Dougie. Chust sublime.
Oh, come on! This blog is supposed to be about Scottish football.
All we’ve had tonight is stuff about EBTs and whether Rangers should have paid tax on it.
So let’s start a blog about that.
Any ideas for a name?
Let’s see………………………………………………..
How about Rangers Tax case?
Essex beancounter says:
August 6, 2012 at 23:11
‘JC….Accounting regulations demand that directors of a PLC, such as Rangers, include the property assets at “market value” . This would normally involve an external firm of surveyors or equivalent performing a valuation at “market value” and is normally done every five years in such cases. The directors may also disclose the name of the firm making the valuation…’
—-
Thanks, Eb.