About the The Scottish Football Monitor

Avatar ByTrisidium

About the The Scottish Football Monitor

The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).

Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.

The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.

The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.

Scottish Football Monitor asks contributors to remember only a few things;

1. The site is not the domain of any one club and is open to fans of all clubs.

2. Absolutely no discussion with regard to religion should take place.

3. Posters should refrain from using foul or abusive language.

Welcome to The Scottish Football Monitor

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,167 Comments so far

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weeronPosted on11:47 pm - Aug 8, 2012


longtimelurker says:
August 8, 2012 at 23:22…..

I believe you may be on to something. Think about it. A trust fund at arm’s length.

No tax paid on payments from said trust fund. No trail.

Think for a minute about the possibilities.

Then, totally unrelated, of course……

Retired refs. After dinner circuit. Envelopes. Amounts?

Who knows.

Someone does.

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Caveat Emptor

Caveat EmptorPosted on11:51 pm - Aug 8, 2012


In common with buckfastswallier, I have given up on, and indeed avoid, discussing the Sevco scandal with workmates, drinking buddies and casual acquaintances. To hear otherwise intelligent, rational guys regurgitate the nonsense peddled by the MSM beggars belief.
There appears to be a mainstream belief that ‘Rangers’ have been relegated, Swally is ‘dignified’, Bomber is ‘misguided, but his heart is in the right place’ and that Minty was ‘duped’. The subliminal message is getting through!
Any attempt to discuss the situation in a reasoned manner, stating the facts in a concise, structured order, begins to sound, even to myself, like the ravings of a twisted individual with an agenda.
My only agenda is to see rules applied, justice done and Scottish football cleansed of the blatant cheating that has been allowed to prosper.
Another rant over!!

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tearsofjoyPosted on12:04 am - Aug 9, 2012


Reference my earlier post re Wiggy’s (possible) signings to RFC RIP whilst an agent.

Wiggy & Sparkes allied in 2001 (per a link already posted here)

Kris Boyd signed for RFC RIP in 2005 (Sparkes was his agent at the time , according to a web page referencing Killie wot I found).

Kris Boyd is named on the BBC website as a recipient of EBT.

Wiggy joined the SFA in 2007 (his wiki page doesn’t say WHEN exactly he ceased to act as an agent). But we could reasonably assume it was immediately before he joined the SFA in his new CE role there ?
In which case Wiggy , at least , had an interest in a company that knew players were being paid via EBT – and in his role at SFA , he also knew this wasn’t being declared ?

Game , set & match ? Or , in fairness, had Wiggy previously ceased to be a partner/director/whatever of his agency by then.

Or am I off the mark – in saying that I was expecting to be shot down in flames by now by more “influential” members of this board.

PS Congrats to Celtic on doing their bit in bettering our national coeffieicent and also to New Shiny Rangers in their giant killing last night,

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longtimelurkerPosted on12:05 am - Aug 9, 2012


Schneeb says:
August 8, 2012 at 23:39
0 0 Rate This

In recent months/weeks any posts I have made about Phoenix Rangers have been met with a stony silence – I suspect the genuine fans are really hurting.

_____________________________________________________________________

You simply can’t speak about ‘them’ to ‘them’ or even amongst ‘us’ it’s not spoken about.

It’s like a new re logion we’re all not supposed to know about, it’s there in the corner but no one mentions it.

I meet people all of the time during the course of my work and you just can’t have a conversation about ‘it’.

Really weird.

People I come across will not confront it and it reminds me of Glasgow back in the seventies with the old ‘and what school did you go to? at a job interview.

People are really suspicious if they don’t know you or don’t know you well.

I was on a course yesterday with about seven guys of my own age, none of us knew each other but of course I knew what some of them were simply down to were they lived ( I hate this country for that) but the chat was all pleasantries until the guy running the course made a joke about ‘them’, you could have cut the atmosphere with a knife, the silence from everyone in the room was deafening.

The elephant in the room right enough.

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MidCalderanPosted on12:05 am - Aug 9, 2012


Another Mousy Tongue quote; “To investigate a problem is, indeed, to solve it”. This is what it is hoped to be achieved here.

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buckfastswallierPosted on12:16 am - Aug 9, 2012


RE: Rangers fans’ logic when it comes to talking about things.

While I think these day to day accounts of experiences are important in that they contribute to the cultural picture of Scottish Football and society, I find myself noticing things I didn’t before and worry about what it says about my mind- I suddenly see people wearing new RFC tops, people wearing CFC tops, and feel an emotional sense seeing them.

If we are not careful we will be looking into the eyes of the monster in the mirror.

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longtimelurkerPosted on12:18 am - Aug 9, 2012


weeron says:
August 8, 2012 at 23:47
3 1 Rate This
longtimelurker says:
August 8, 2012 at 23:22…..

_____________________________________________________

Thanks.

Whatever this slush fund is or was for it will turn out to be really simple. All of these things turn out to be like that.

But whatever it was the players were being used to hide it that much is obvious.

They could pay millions of pounds into the trust on the pretext of it being the players money when in actual fact it was really a giant petty cash box.

Someone was obviously getting a cut or making something from the dosh in the fund and again that much is obvious.

The players didn’t give a flying one about all of the ‘stuff’ they were only interested in the bottom line which was what they had agreed to be paid if someone else was embellishing or making out that the players were getting more then as long as the players had something that said they were onto such and such and maybe a wee cut of the extra dosh for taking the ‘blame’ then the players would have been happy to do it because there was a certain way that things were done at the club so the players played along but probably insisted in a get out which would have been the contract/side letters.

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SchneebPosted on12:20 am - Aug 9, 2012


longtimelurker says: August 9, 2012 at 00.05

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The silence is deafening and I get the feeling there may be more than one elephant to be revealed – I suspect that is their worry. If the elephants stampede …..

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PaulmacPosted on12:20 am - Aug 9, 2012


Caveat Emptor says:
August 8, 2012 at 23:51
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Indeed…I have had two discusions recently…both suggested that no matter the facts…no matter the dishonesty…no matter what corruption or bullying or threats have taken place…they will continue as tho nothing has changed..it’s ..”as you were”..and their hatred has grown ten fold..

The whole sorry saga has dragged on so long and with the football season under way….apathy is now kicking in which is allowing the supporters of SEVCO UTD and the MSM to promote their agenda…

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BELLAMY1Posted on12:20 am - Aug 9, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
August 8, 2012 at 21:49
22 0 i
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Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
August 8, 2012 at 12:15
100 2 i Rate This

Good Afternoon,

I wonder how many Glaswegians and others ever dropped in to a basement licensend premises in Glasgow’s Renfield street called…….. “Fouquet’s”? (my edit)

=====================================================================

BRTH…as one of many of your many admirers on this blog, may I commend your research as exemplary…would that the MSM devote a millisecond to such detail, dare I say there would be no need for this site/blog…nor would TSFM be necessary.

Mille de chapeaux monsieur!

BRTH Strangely enough the man who owned said establishment – Fouquets – after if went bust originally – and during it’s heyday in the late 80’s had the surname Nicholas! Dasso was one of the Glynhill family and a passionate Rangers fan – the purchase of Fouquets, No.3 in a soon to become large portfolio of entertainment outlets catapulted me to manager of a 25K a week pub at the age of only 23, them were the days! Having spent nearly 7 years of my life working for that company, over 20 years later I still can’t understand their demise – Bonkers just Bonkers!

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OLE MUNGO BHOYPosted on12:24 am - Aug 9, 2012


So thanks to RTC we know that the people in Jersey running the ebt scheme were ( are ?)………..

“The Murray Group Management Renumeration Trust”

What publicly available information is known about this Trust ? (eh who are their bankers ?)

Under Jersey law what public disclosures do they have to make about their activities ?

Who are the (independent ) Trustees involved with RFC(IA) EBT scheme ?

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OLE MUNGO BHOYPosted on12:38 am - Aug 9, 2012


BELLAMY1 says:

August 9, 2012 at 00:200
Rate This

“a basement licensend premises in Glasgow’s Renfield street called…….. “Fouquet’s”?

I still can’t understand their demise – Bonkers just Bonkers!

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Knew the place well from it’s inception …great howf if you liked red wine and French stuff …….problem ? well the steep staircase as you went down to in to the place – must have cost them a fortune in civil damages suits ……. and trying to find you’re way out up those stairs was a nightmare . Staff were seriously “Glasgow friendly” —” don’t ask me… I’m only paid to collect glasses ” etc

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Reidy134

Reidy134Posted on12:46 am - Aug 9, 2012


I think mine might be the first RTc/SFM divorce! Had a huge argument with hubby tonight; he still insists on reading MSM and thinks I’m influenced by the c**p in them! He has never read any of the posts on RTC or here and thinks I’m making it all up! He went as a young lad for a trial with RFC (back in the 60’s) but was knocked back at the last minute cos his mum wasn’t one of them. Signed for Hearts and is now a Jambo. But he can’t or is not willing to see the truth.
It was a great marriage and I will miss him 🙁

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BELLAMY1Posted on12:47 am - Aug 9, 2012


Civil Damages! USA was an island and the earth was flat back then Mungo – we hidnae even thought about suing the cooncil for upturned paving slabs in that era. If ye got down the stairs ok ye didnae worry about the return journey.

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The GlenPosted on1:54 am - Aug 9, 2012


I hope that Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan will one day set up his/her own blog.

Insightful, well researched, intelligent and thought provoking posts for fans of all clubs (yes, even Rangers/Sevco fans) to digest and comment on.

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mohandiseenPosted on1:55 am - Aug 9, 2012


I’m looking forward to the statement from Celtic today.

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CHARONPosted on2:03 am - Aug 9, 2012


gsrx1 says:

August 8, 2012 at 20:39

CHARON
Highly improbable. They would have to take action separately in Scotland, England&Wales and N.I. Even then, the rest of the world would not be bound in any way by any such action, so other jurisdictions eg The USA or the Republic of Ireland would be free to report it.

BTW, I hate being a pedant, but afaik “injunctions”, super or otherwise, don’t appear in Scots Law, the correct term is “interdicts.”
—————————————————————————————————————————–

Highly improbable eh, I think you gave the game away there Walter.

Put it this way, I know for a FACT, of a very famous Scottish sportsman who gained a ‘Super Injunction’ at the High Court in London around 4 years ago (and the reason why, BTW). To this day, nothing has been reported on the matter in the media anywhere in the UK, or anywhere else to my knowledge. Why could that be?

And another thing Mr Pedant, I have never heard of a Super Interdict – have you? LOL.
——————————————————————————————————————–
Sorry, my friend, but how you extrapolate me being “Walter” from the use of the words “Highly improbable” is beyond me.

You say that you know personally of a super-injunction being gained at the English High Court. I believe you. I was referring to the Scottish courts, where the initial action would be raised.

Finally, no, I haven’t heard of a Super Interdict – perhaps because they haven’t been granted. Or perhaps we haven’t heard of them because they have been so effective .Doesn’t mean that interdict isn’t the correct word to use in Scots Law. LOL.

btw, here’s a helpful article in The Herald….

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/salmonds-fury-at-bid-to-extend-english-superinjunctions-to-scotland.17171290

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Ordinary FanPosted on2:09 am - Aug 9, 2012


@Mohandiseen………….Any idea what it is regarding?

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stunneyPosted on2:56 am - Aug 9, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/ally-mccoist-hails-charles-green-for-reviving-rangers-1-2457457

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stunneyPosted on2:59 am - Aug 9, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/mike-ashley-linked-with-rangers-with-retail-deal-also-on-the-table-report-1-2455973

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stevensanph

stevensanphPosted on6:39 am - Aug 9, 2012


I know I have seen a calculation like this done before by someone on here (slimshady??), but I thought I’d do my own one. I have used figures from the last D&P report as the basis for expenses, the published season ticket prices and the published wages they are paying for the new players to calculate the figures.

Based on an average attendance similar to what was achieved v East Fife, I calculate they can support wages of 1500gbp a week on average for the squad. I reckon right now, their first team squad is on at least 3000gbp.

What are the contingency measures the SFL have in place should Sevco fail to see out the season? What security did the SFA accept/demand to allow them to play in the first place? Who is funding this shortfall? Why are there no answers…

….even St.Johnstone are saying they can’t sign another player until details of the tv deal is announced. Why do the member clubs still not know what is in the contracts??

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/how-are-sevco-affording-sandaza/

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ReadceltPosted on6:45 am - Aug 9, 2012


Working ‘down the road’ The level of misinformation and confused argument from my fellow scots beggars belief. On occasion I overhear anyone down visiting discussing the subject, invariably it brings a wry smile to my face. I’ve heard the ‘I blame dick advocaat’ theory. Talk of the ‘relegation’ and the ‘Craig whyte defence’. Nobody down here really cares. They lost interest in Scottish football, if they ever had any in it, years ago. I feel like a kid counting down the days till my own private Xmas. I know it will come but it still feels intangible and as yet, out of reach.

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AllyJambo

AllyJamboPosted on7:21 am - Aug 9, 2012


Reidy134 says:

August 9, 2012 at 00:46
I think mine might be the first RTc/SFM divorce! Had a huge argument with hubby tonight; he still insists on reading MSM and thinks I’m influenced by the c**p in them! He has never read any of the posts on RTC or here and thinks I’m making it all up! He went as a young lad for a trial with RFC (back in the 60′s) but was knocked back at the last minute cos his mum wasn’t one of them. Signed for Hearts and is now a Jambo. But he can’t or is not willing to see the truth.
It was a great marriage and I will miss him
__________________________________________________________________

Tell him to go read jamboskickback’s thread on RFC’s cheating, he might be prepared to believe what he reads there. Get him to read the thread from the begining, plenty of posters then thought it was all exaggeration. You won’t find any now that don’t agree with what we say here. Mind you, if he does read it from the start, you’ll not get the pc back for weeks 😉

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broganrogantrevinoandhoganPosted on7:58 am - Aug 9, 2012


stevensanph says:

August 9, 2012 at 06:39

That is an excellent and detailed financial analysis….. well done.

However, in terms of the costs, have you factored in the fines and football debts that have still to be paid? and have you made provision for a modest hike in legal expenses given the recent sojourn to the Court of Session and presumably the acquisition costs of buying the business, the CVA proposal as put to D&P and so on?

Given the detailed licensing criteria– the core process as the SFA describe it— I have no idea how Servco were granted a licence unless they showed the introduction of significant funds from an external source?

Further, if ticketus remain in the background somewhere, and they are entitled to a percentage of the ticket revenue– even if that is a small percentage whilst trading remains in the SFL- then the projected losses must increase significantly.

I have yet to see any type of financial analysis based on the publicly released figures which show any ability to make a profit– and virtually all show a projected loss of around £3.5M per annum allowing for extremely healthy crowds each week which is debateable.

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RanchofrancoPosted on8:15 am - Aug 9, 2012


Richard Wilson,he of the Sevco Herald, in his latest pitch for ticket sales to the newco blockbuster ‘When Sally fell for Charlie’, delivers some memorable lines from his favourite co-star in this hilarious romcom that is sure to run and run…until Sally finds his next new leading man to pledge his froth to.
Richard is already writing the headlines to this sequel, in slavish preparation for the imminent PR script he will uncritically publicise and willingly promote on behalf of the Sevco studios and Media House moguls.
Richard Wilson mostly writes fairytales for a living.

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stevensanph

stevensanphPosted on8:17 am - Aug 9, 2012


Brogan – I have made no allowance for any fines, lawyer fees, football debts or anything else. I am assuming everything is on a clean slate and just factoring in their income against player wages.

Obviously all you mentioned still has to be factored in and is only going to make things worse (although you could argue that this will be an investment from the owners that will be repaid at a later date).

If crowds drop off, which I think they will, things become even more severe. Unless they have shown proof of reserves of 10 – 20 million to cover their trading shortfall over the next 3 years, the SFA will have to be held complicit should Sevco suffer and insolvency event. Either the SFA have failed to consider the financial aspect or they have been fed a plate of lies. Or, there is silent investors who have not been made public…

Whatever is going on, Rangers fans are being lied too again – what is the bet ticketus are in the background?

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BarneyPosted on8:22 am - Aug 9, 2012


Larsson7 says:
August 8, 2012 at 17:51
48 1 i
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and to add sincerely best of luck to Motherwell and Dundee Utd our other two remaining teams in europe. Best of luck boys
————-
Dinna forget aboot Hearts, ken? 🙂 ( I know they’re not playing this week, but they are in the Europa League draw on Friday ).

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DonsfanPosted on8:26 am - Aug 9, 2012


Aberdeen should have been relegated twice, someone else were allowed to ground share before can’t remember who, ok, I am angry about not getting fair vote, if we has fair voting years ago when OF ripped us all off, maybe we could have competed better with fair share of spoils, yeah we got relegated and deservedly so, but that doesn’t stop me having my say that if this is to do with scottish corruption then let’s look at corruption from the top.Rant over.

_______________________________________________________________________

Incorrect. Aberdeen finished bottom and were supposed to play a PLAYOFF against Falkirk but as Falkirk’s ground was not up to scatch for the SPL the PLAYOFF did not happen.

We also beat Dunfermline in a playoff to avoid relegation.

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Don JohnPosted on8:41 am - Aug 9, 2012


Incorrect. Aberdeen finished bottom and were supposed to play a PLAYOFF against Falkirk but as Falkirk’s ground was not up to scatch for the SPL the PLAYOFF did not happen.

We also beat Dunfermline in a playoff to avoid relegation.
—————————-

It’s really annoying the number of times that hoary old myth has to be shot down. People should get their facts right before posting. In any event Aberdeen, along with Celtic remain the only two Scottish teams never to have been relegated from the top flight. For information, a third team which had that distinction, Rangers, is now defunct.

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:43 am - Aug 9, 2012


Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
August 9, 2012 at 07:21
6 1 i
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Reidy134 says:

August 9, 2012 at 00:46
I think mine might be the first RTc/SFM divorce! Had a huge argument with hubby tonight; he still insists on reading MSM and thinks I’m influenced by the c**p in them! He has never read any of the posts on RTC or here and thinks I’m making it all up! He went as a young lad for a trial with RFC (back in the 60′s) but was knocked back at the last minute cos his mum wasn’t one of them. Signed for Hearts and is now a Jambo. But he can’t or is not willing to see the truth.
It was a great marriage and I will miss him
__________________________________________________________________

Tell him to go read jamboskickback’s thread on RFC’s cheating, he might be prepared to believe what he reads there. Get him to read the thread from the begining, plenty of posters then thought it was all exaggeration. You won’t find any now that don’t agree with what we say here. Mind you, if he does read it from the start, you’ll not get the pc back for weeks

=======================================================================

Alleyjambo…this site really does offer offering to the discerning blogger…now we have marriage guidance as well as education and entertainment…best blog on the planet!

PS are your services available in Essex?

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:43 am - Aug 9, 2012


offer everything…!

Darned hangover.

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Danish PastryPosted on9:01 am - Aug 9, 2012


stevensanph says:
August 9, 2012 at 08:17
Or, there is silent investors who have not been made public…
————-

Thanks for that post Steven. It’s contributions like yours that make this site hugely interesting for lay people like myself.

Your silent investor thing seems like a logical explanation. Didn’t Green mention 20 investors in all? I’ve only heard a few names. I take it that the SFA knows every investor’s name and background.

Question: Wouldn’t buying a lot of fairly decent players and binding them to 3 or 4-year deals make sense if you also had contingency plans to sell up? Or if you knew you might run out of cash? If it went belly-up after several months you’d think they could recoup more from transfers of said players than they’d ever spent on their wages.

But I’m perhaps being too cynical? Maybe Green is in it for the long term?

The myth of the magical debt-free club is being welcomed by one and all. On the face of it, it looks like a kind of dead-cat bounce where the cat actually revives in rude health at the zenith of the bouncy bit!

PS By the way, I heard (or read) Kyle was on a lot less than your £5000 (£1000/w basic) and would only earn more depending on actual appearences.

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ingarfagnanaPosted on9:09 am - Aug 9, 2012


Can Mike Ashley legally invest if he is owner of newcastle. i seem to remember there is a rule which prevents anyone having a financial interest in more than one club.

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Danish PastryPosted on9:25 am - Aug 9, 2012


Pars Fan says:
August 9, 2012 at 08:51
———

Pars Fan, since your post landed just above mine I couldn’t help noticing that you’ve included your email address in your post. Probably not a good idea unless you want Fan mail.

I’m sure the admin can edit that out if you contact him.

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AllyJambo

AllyJamboPosted on9:43 am - Aug 9, 2012


Dear essexbeancounter,
I have many minutes experience as an internet marriage guidance councillor and would suggest, if you are having problems at home due to the now worldwide addiction to rtc/tsfm-ism, you should use the same time honoured, scientifically proven to be almost perfect, solution I use myself. Buy her flowers and prepare to grovel.
Oh, and good luck,
Regards,
Allyjambo

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essexbeancounterPosted on9:52 am - Aug 9, 2012


Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
August 9, 2012 at 09:43
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Dear essexbeancounter,
I have many minutes experience as an internet marriage guidance councillor and would suggest, if you are having problems at home due to the now worldwide addiction to rtc/tsfm-ism, you should use the same time honoured, scientifically proven to be almost perfect, solution I use myself. Buy her flowers and prepare to grovel.
Oh, and good luck,
Regards,
Allyjambo

=======================================================================

Allyjambo…thank you for your warm and supportive words.

Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary and flowers (or a small pot plant from M & S) will be the order of the day.

I have a master’s degree in grovelling so it comes in useful for the hours spent on this site…and on RTC also.

Apologies for OT but sometimes I need a visit to the “clinic”…be it child guidance or marriage guidance.

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jockybhoyPosted on9:57 am - Aug 9, 2012


Anybody defending “Pars Fan”, indeed “Pars Fan” himself, why on earth would Penn State be brought up in any context with Scottish football? To write try and involve Celtic in ANY way is pure hvnnery, regardless of what team you claim to follow.

Interesting that Paul McConville put a note on his Scottish Law Thoughts blog about having to block Penn State references – that looks to me like a concerted efforts by Rangers fans (and perhaps enlisting sympathisers from other teams?) to deflect the debate in hand.

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mayanmanPosted on9:59 am - Aug 9, 2012


Is there an interdict or injunction against RTC/Word press regarding any mention of the Cardigan? Just thinking.

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Night TerrorPosted on10:03 am - Aug 9, 2012


ExiledCelt says:
August 8, 2012 at 20:29

Pars Fan – you are right – Celtic should be stipped of the European Cup and everything else they won fairly because your team won many domestic trophies by financial doping. There – does that make you fell better? If only they had never won it Rangers (IA) would never have gone bust trying to emulate the Lisbon Lions….

Its all Jock Steins fault really – he won the European Cup with 11 Scottish players. Then won 9 in a row. Despite spending 100s of millions of Scottish taxpayers money, SDM could only buy his 9 in a row. He failed misrably trying to win the big one.

Hope you and your fellow followers all fell it was worth it.

Am I missing something?

Can’t say I agreed with all of Pars Fan’s points, but I didn’t see any suggestion of Celtic being stripped of a European title.

I hope differing opinions are welcomed on SFM, even if they’re in contradiction to the vast majority of other posters’ opinions.

There is a danger of the comments (not much blogging yet) turning into a uniformly anti-Rangers rant – see miki67’s comment shortly afterwards for such an intemperately worded
rant.

Analysis and argument please – Is it too much to hope that rants are kept for club-specific boards?

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Charlie BrownPosted on10:03 am - Aug 9, 2012


Pars Fan says:
August 9, 2012 at 08:51

Why should home clubs get to keep 100% of the gate money? They didn’t from 1890 until 1981 and in those 91 years we had 25% more non Old Firm title winners than we have now, now we have ZERO percent of league winners outside Glasgow. Abandoning gate-sharing was probably THE single most destructive change in terms of reducing competition between the Glasgow clubs and the rest. Funnily enough the change was lobbied for by Rangers with current SFA President and then Rangers secretary the guy who managed to swing the vote. Also funnily enough Rangers have been by far the dominant club since effectively removing all of their competition bar Celtic.

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john clarkePosted on10:11 am - Aug 9, 2012


Just as a matter of interest, Lord Hodge is back at work. He is in Court tomorrow on matters utterly unconnected with anything TSFM would be interested in.
But, perhaps, we can look forward to his views on the D&P report next week or fairly soon?

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gsrx1Posted on10:18 am - Aug 9, 2012


CHARON says:
August 9, 2012 at 02:03

Thanx for your helpful link ‘my friend’. However, it changes nothing, as WS could quite concievably have gone down the same route as the anonymous example I gave you.

Whatever, my original point was (in case you have forgotten) there must be a very good reason why Smith’s (and others?) EBT(s) have not been disclosed. Perhaps you could be a little more constructive in your responses and give me your opinion?

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StephenPosted on10:20 am - Aug 9, 2012


I had posted the following on The Herald website the other day. Twice. Twice it never got past the moderators. This is why blogs like this are so important.

“”Half a truth is often a great lie.” – Benjamin Franklin

“The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.” ? Joseph Goebbels

Propaganda is an amazing tool, especially if used correctly. Over the last few months we have witnessed more than a fair share of lies & propaganda from those inside Ibrox and from some of those who hold positions in the Scottish media.

Things like “We’ve had our punishment” or “We’ve been demoted” or “We’ve been banned from Europe” etc are all lies that have helped create this siege mentality of the poor Ibrox faithful.

Even David Murray with his recent “bayoneting the wounded” comment is another example of a mentality where people simply do not accept that the situation they are in is due to the actions of those within Ibrox and no-one else.

Ally McCoist & Sandy Jardine have not helped in the matter, in fact if both of them kept their mouths shut their new club might actually be in the SPL. But humility is not part of the menu within Ibrox, so division 3 it is – and rightly so.

But the biggest lie of all, without a shadow of a doubt, has been the creation of a holding company or the separation of company & club to facilitate the liquidation of the company part to allow the club to live on whilst the debt dies.

I have heard all the bleating from the poor Ibrox lambs about punishment and being kicked when they are down – I have heard how Craig Whyte is the ultimate villain and how his actions of not paying tax or PAYE were disgraceful – yet i’ve never heard one person connected with the old Rangers or the new Rangers ever declare that this debt should ever be paid back.

HMRC could be owed up to £95m and that is not all down to Craig Whyte – so if this “club” is the same as it was before, are the fans or the new owners willing to pay back all this debt, especially if it’s to HMRC? Surely a club that prides itself on dignity will look at itself in the mirror and pay back what it owes to society!

No? Why not? Ah because it was the “company” that owed the debt, not the “club”. Right.

What did Joseph Goebbels say again?”

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deejay65Posted on10:23 am - Aug 9, 2012


Can SFA now come out and announce if the FPP tests have all been submitted and passed? The saga continues….

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deejay65Posted on10:26 am - Aug 9, 2012


Can Mike Ashley legally invest if he is owner of newcastle. i seem to remember there is a rule which prevents anyone having a financial interest in more than one club.

He can invest if he wants. Rule only applies to having 2 teams in same FA/country..

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jammy dodgerPosted on10:27 am - Aug 9, 2012


jocky bhoy says:
August 9, 2012 at 09:57

Anybody defending “Pars Fan”, indeed “Pars Fan” himself, why on earth would Penn State be brought up in any context with Scottish football?
=======
To give him the benefit of the doubt, ParsFan may well have browsed RM or FF, and assumed, as many do, that this sort of rubbish, posted repeatedly and with no contradiction as fact, by many different posters, has some basis.

Such is the power of propaganda. Goebbels would be proud.

And you are right, those forums are simply vehicles for a concerted attempt to divert attention away from what went on at RFC during the Murray years. I know from experience that any posts which simply try to correct factual inaccuracies on those blogs are ruthlessly moderated out.

The content of those blogs give me serious concerns about the state of Scottish society. Only those with a strong stomach should visit. A lot of the posters demonstrate clear psychopathic traits, and some of their posts should definitely be awakening the interest of the police, in my opinion.

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MidCalderanPosted on10:30 am - Aug 9, 2012


ingarfagnana says:
August 9, 2012 at 09:09

Can Mike Ashley legally invest if he is owner of newcastle. i seem to remember there is a rule which prevents anyone having a financial interest in more than one club
————————————————————–
“It is now prohibited for a company or person to have an Interest in a club when it has the ability to exercise a ‘decisive influence’ in the decision-making of another club in the same UEFA club competition.”

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MidCalderanPosted on10:32 am - Aug 9, 2012


Omitted link in earlier post, sorry.

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/34f63-legally-one-person-own-two-football-clubs.html

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Charlie BrownPosted on10:37 am - Aug 9, 2012


gsrx1 says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:18
0 0 Rate This
CHARON says:
August 9, 2012 at 02:03

Thanx for your helpful link ‘my friend’. However, it changes nothing, as WS could quite concievably have gone down the same route as the anonymous example I gave you.

Whatever, my original point was (in case you have forgotten) there must be a very good reason why Smith’s (and others?) EBT(s) have not been disclosed. Perhaps you could be a little more constructive in your responses and give me your opinion?
=========================================================================

None of them have been disclosed, at least not officially. People like RTC & Mark Daly have found this evidence from their covert sources but none of it has ever been declared or admitted by RFC or MIH. Why has Smith (& others) payments not been disclosed? Obviously because it is information that they would much rather be kept hidden. If Walter Smith wasn’t Rangers manager or employee at the time of the payments it would probably lead to awkward questioning why the Everton or Scotland manager was getting paid large sums by his former club – ditto for Souness and any other former managers / coaches / players / directors or administrators that continued to get payments whilst in the employ of other clubs or football associations.

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scottyjimboPosted on10:43 am - Aug 9, 2012


OLE MUNGO BHOY says:
August 9, 2012 at 00:24

Back to the old adage “Follow the money”. I presume that EBT schemes could have been implemented through an upfront London financial institution, so why use a Jersey based one? Simply because it inserted a layer or anonymity into any financial transactions, precautions much loved by these paragons of virtue, the MBB’s of this world. Isn’t it peculiar that such a fine, moral upstanding Scottish institution, whose MD at the time insists that everything was perfectly legal and above board, apparently thought that it required such an arrangement? Most people have probably thought that this scheme was employed to “reward” players and management of RFC(IA). That being the case, then the sums deposited in, then “loaned” out to players, should have roughly tallied, as I’m sure they did. Thus the questions I would like an answer to are,

How much in total was paid into the scheme?

Who/what organisations were the source of the deposits and for how much?

Who/what organisation, other than the players, received these “loans”, when, and for how much?

Was the scheme restricted to RFC(IA) employee’s only?

Now answers to these questions would be interesting, just for the sake of clarity. No dishonesty implied in any way.

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Dark BluePosted on10:46 am - Aug 9, 2012


Good morning,
I expect to be shot down in flames but I would like to make the suggestion
that in the interests of fairness integrity and equality that there should be a maximum stadium
capacity of say 20 thousand. This over time would reduce the imbalance between the top and
the rest of the teams in the SPL and ultimately would increase attendances. Once a competitive
league had become established then the maximum capacity could be reviewed. Imho only
radical surgery of this type can save the Scottish game

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Scotland Behave

Scotland BehavePosted on10:49 am - Aug 9, 2012


I am just thinking out loud here about the mechanics of the EBT that Oldco MAY have employed. Please shoot me down in flames if I am off the planet here.

Would it be possible that the players were deducted tax from their EBT payments to show that things were all up front and legal, but that tax was not paid from the EBT but ploughed back into the slush fund, as Oldco thought that it was a tax free system? hence all the indignation from some of the players so far.

So not only were they deceiving the fans, the clubs, the SFA etc but also the players.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on10:51 am - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:03

Why should home clubs get to keep 100% of the gate money?

==========================

No problem, let the club who sells the tickets to their fans get to keep the money received.

So if Hibs are playing at Hearts and bring 5,000 let them keep the money they got for selling those tickets. Obviously if that happens then costs would have to be apportioned as well, that seems fair.

Then when Hearts are the away team they get to keep what they sell to their fans.

That seems a fair system to me.

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itsagoal!Posted on10:52 am - Aug 9, 2012


The debate around how The Rangers can afford their business model remains at the heart of this whole saga. History is probably repeating itself but I’m not so sure…..

i don’t believe for a minute that the £5.5M Green paid for them has not been used to pay current salaries and running costs – despite the fact it shold have gone to the creditors pot. This money will have kept them ticking along.

Murray Park has probably been sold/leased out/promised to be sold to cut the costs.

And the salaries we hear about in the MSM are probably exaggerated (yes I know the tabloids making things up who would have thunk it). The money isn’t there to pay the wages that players think they are worth. Black, Sandaza, Kyle were all unemployed and geting a bit desperate that their lovely and honest agent hadn’t quite delivered the riches they were promised. the agents would be more than happy to take their cut of the players going to ibrox. What do they care if Green’s Great Gamble doesn’t pay-off? they will get another percentage of another golden hello at another club – simples.
We the fans of all clubs need to stop accepting obscene salaries gettting paid to poor footballers (yes I am talking about you Bangura)

Quick question: how long ago was the last Duff7phelps report? presumably they are still costing £1M a month? so how much extra have they cost since the last report?

reminder: can we all discusss in 8 days time if East Fife have been paid – lets not take our eye of the ball!

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bad capt madmanPosted on11:04 am - Aug 9, 2012


Scotland Behave says

Interesting thought, but wouldn’t the recipients of EBTs get confirmation on any tax paid from HMRC?

You would also expect that the trustees would have mentioned any deductions on any paperwork given to recipients. Ah, maybe there was no paperwork with the payments…was it in cash in a brown envelope? (A4 size obviously) if so, who took the envelopes to the lucky recipients?

If the payments were through bank transfer or cheque, there would be a nice trail for a legal investigation.

Maybe none of the recipients actually look at the letters from Hector that drop on the mat, I know i dont like to. Their accountants or advisors would though.

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longtimelurkerPosted on11:06 am - Aug 9, 2012


jocky bhoy says:
August 9, 2012 at 09:57
8 1 Rate This
Anybody defending “Pars Fan”, indeed “Pars Fan” himself, why on earth would Penn State be brought up in any context with Scottish football? To write try and involve Celtic in ANY way is pure hvnnery, regardless of what team you claim to follow.

Interesting that Paul McConville put a note on his Scottish Law Thoughts blog about having to block Penn State references – that looks to me like a concerted efforts by Rangers fans (and perhaps enlisting sympathisers from other teams?) to deflect the debate in hand.

_____________________________________________________________________

I suffered from this myself recently. I am member of an internet forum, which is not open to the public, where members of my trade can discuss technical details and safety issues pertaining to my trade anyway I got into a discussion with a few of my fellow trade members about ‘it’ and the discussion got along okay for the most part as most of the member on the site are not Scottish but after a while a guy I know personally came out with the most horrible stuff re child abuse and Celtic so I gave up and lurked for a good while afterwards.

I mean how can you discuss something rationally with someone who then resorts to the most vile accusations imaginable, there is simply no point.

My son has had the same reaction from ‘them’ in as much as the discussion goes fine for a while ‘they’ realise they’ve lost the argument and then they resort to the shameful topic of child abuse and Celtic’s part in it.

I now do not discuss this topic of ‘them’ outside of my own family.

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Inter MeylanPosted on11:11 am - Aug 9, 2012


Regarding level playing fields, gate money etc.

When the Victorians codified football and introduced the Football association (I know it is in England but bear with me) they made a rule that all income was to be shared evenly on the basis that in every game two clubs were involved and, quite specifically as a means of evening up the playing field between clubs who had big grounds and the others.

That bastion of socialism, the USA, does this even today. All money is shared. Why? To make sure no one club can ever dominate. they then give last year’s worst club the 1st draft pick etc Again so that the playing field is evened out.

England screwed up when ManUtd forced through a change to income sharing – with the threat of leaving for a Euro League. this blackmail worked and now home club keeps all the money. The effect of this was a 30% increase in their income and a 34% reduction in the income of my team – West Ham. This is where their period of dominance started. they then used the same extortion technique to force through the EPL and Sky which instead of rewarding everyone equally rewards the winners disproportionately – now only one of 3 clubs can win.

If you want a competitive league you have to have fair distribution of income. The bigger clubs will still have higher income, they have bigger grounds, but the gap is not too huge for a talented manager – a Clough – to overcome.

With reference to Murray – I am convinced h eis behind all of this, behind the Ticketus deal and behind Sevco. He claims to have put £100m into Rangers Dec’d and wants it back. He got £20m form Ticketus I think and a club in the SPL can recoup the rest. He just didn’t think the Revenue would be so stubborn.

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gsrx1Posted on11:13 am - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:37

Agreed CB. However, how come WS is so good at keeping this a secrect and Souness et al are not?

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longtimelurkerPosted on11:13 am - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:37
1 0 Rate This
gsrx1 says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:18
0 0 Rate This
CHARON says:
August 9, 2012 at 02:03

__________________________________________________________________

When the subject of Smith and injunctions came up on KDS the other day one of the KDS accountants who ‘appears to be in the know’ on matters financial and what went on inside the hallowed halls said that Smith had an EBT while he was Everton manager.

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longtimelurkerPosted on11:15 am - Aug 9, 2012


scottyjimbo says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:43
3 0 Rate This
OLE MUNGO BHOY says:
August 9, 2012 at 00:24

__________________________________________________________________________

There’s apparently a £10m shortfall from what was paid in to the EBT and what was paid out.

Obviously that money might still be in the EBT.

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AllyJambo

AllyJamboPosted on11:15 am - Aug 9, 2012


Essexbeancounter
Hope you and mrs counter have a happy anniversary tomorow and many more to come. Our little marriage guidance session has indeed been OT but I’m sure will be appreciated by those who think we are here only to bash Rangers when we are actually here to give advice and guidance on a whole range of problems – including tax, and the evasion of same 🙂

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Charlie BrownPosted on11:16 am - Aug 9, 2012


Philip José Farmer says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:51

It would be a fairer system if all clubs provided decent seating for away fans with unrestricted views, not shoved away in a corner with shitty views, surrounded on all sides with home fans – often hostile and subjected to fairly brutal ‘Glasgow’ policing. This is the away day ‘experience’ for travelling fans at Ibrox & Parkhead – it’s almost as if they wanted to actively discourage away fans from attending ……………….

I think the previous system of gate-sharing worked perfectly well given that it lasted for more 75% of Scottish football’s existance but i do appreciate we could also probably learn some valuable lessons from American sports that retain revenue sharing as fundamental to their sporting and economic model.

I think we can all agree that the consequences of completely abandoning any form of gate-sharing in League football has not been positive in terms of maintaining competition and interest and that is reflected in the current 100% domination of title wins by the Glasgow clubs sadly approaching the THIRTY YEAR anniversary of Aberdeen’s last title win in 84/85 season.

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Charlie BrownPosted on11:36 am - Aug 9, 2012


gsrx1 says:
August 9, 2012 at 11:13
0 0 Rate This
Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:37

Agreed CB. However, how come WS is so good at keeping this a secrect and Souness et al are not?
===========================================================================

Apart from Mark Daly’s BBC documentary I’ve not seen anybody else go to print or broadcast anything about alleged payments to Souness, Smith & others – almost as if there is a conspiracy of silence on the matter. Only Billy Dodds and few ex-Rangers players have publicly admitted they got payment by way of EBT (from memory Amoruso, Mols & A.Rae & Dodds). Everywhere else is a wall of silence.

maybe there is a social stigma attached to publicly admitting being a tax-cheat?

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Dark BluePosted on11:41 am - Aug 9, 2012


Ok 26 thumbs down but no posts refuting my suggestion. Look forward to
seeing better suggestions to ensure fairness.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on11:44 am - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 11:16
3 0 i Rate This

Philip José Farmer says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:51

It would be a fairer system if all clubs provided decent seating for away fans with unrestricted views, not shoved away in a corner with shitty views, surrounded on all sides with home fans – often hostile and subjected to fairly brutal ‘Glasgow’ policing. This is the away day ‘experience’ for travelling fans at Ibrox & Parkhead – it’s almost as if they wanted to actively discourage away fans from attending ……………….

================================

I’m not sure what any of that has to do with your point on how the income from a football match should be split, however I do agree that the home team keeping all of it is unfair.

Like I said I think both clubs should be able to sell match tickets to their support, with the club selling them keeping the proceeds. The costs for the game could then be split on a pro rata basis, based on the proportion of fans attending. So if Ross County take 2,000 fans to Inverness then Ross County should get the income from their own supporters attending the match. The same would obviously apply when the Inverness fans attended at Ross County, Inverness getting the income from the tickets they sold.

I realise there may be issues with regard the number of tickets available, however that would surely be a good problem, as it would mean the grounds were being filled and clubs were arguing over who got the tickets. I’m sure some equitable system could be arranged. I believe there is currently a minimum amount which the home club must supply.

I really can’t think of a fairer way than that.

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Sarah LeydenPosted on11:47 am - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says – It would be a fairer system if all clubs provided decent seating for away fans with unrestricted views, not shoved away in a corner with shitty views, surrounded on all sides with home fans – often hostile and subjected to fairly brutal ‘Glasgow’ policing. This is the away day ‘experience’ for travelling fans at Ibrox & Parkhead – it’s almost as if they wanted to actively discourage away fans from attending ……………….

_____________________________________________________________________________

I agree wholehertedly with this. Visiting Celtic Park and Ibrox are not pleasant experiences for visiting fans especially with younger children. It is clear to me that at the Himlayan height of the club’s rivalry and the peak of Champions League aspirations both clubs actually wanted to discourage visiting fans to sell more season tickets to home fans. It was either a policy of making vistors feel unwelcome or a management class so divorced from the realities of watching matches as a fan, that they simply did not understand that the conditions are primitive, the stewarding can be very upsetting and the sectarian abuse unacceptable in modern Scotland. Celtic provide restricted views too, which is not the case at Ibrox, they provide a very oblique view. Anyone who thinks ‘diddy’ clubs go there in awe to ‘soak up the atmosphere’ is deluded, they go their to watch their team and hope that they win. They often return home disappointed and in some cases upset by their experience. If Celtic are the virtuous club they aspire to be – they should want to change this on behalf of their visitors

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Charlie BrownPosted on11:49 am - Aug 9, 2012


Dark Blue says:
August 9, 2012 at 11:41
0 0 Rate This
Ok 26 thumbs down but no posts refuting my suggestion. Look forward to
seeing better suggestions to ensure fairness.
==========================================================

DB Iam not sure that ensuring fairness is the objective – in any system of sharing their will be net contributors and net recipients. Because their crowds vastly skew the distribution compared to the rest of the clubs the facts are that Rangers & Celtic will ALWAYS be net contributors to any sharing system and some people don’t like or agree with that. perhaps they find it unfair or perhaps they think it will hinder their clubs ambition.

personally I look at things from the viewpoint of changes & consequences. What changes did we make? were the consequences desirable or negative? did the impact positively or were they damaging to the majority and only beneficial to a few?

there are many things than can be changed to try to improve Scottish Football and rekindle interest. Steps towards actively trying to Increasing competition is just one of them, more attractove pricing, more fan centric policies and puting the key customer ahead of the commercial interest are some others amongst many.

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Charlie BrownPosted on11:50 am - Aug 9, 2012


test?

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Charlie BrownPosted on11:52 am - Aug 9, 2012


TSFM – some posts are getting caught in moderator hell with no apparent bad or banned words?

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longtimelurkerPosted on11:56 am - Aug 9, 2012


For context re my previous post this, below, is what the KDS poster was responding to.

Graham has issued threats on FF re RTC. Those threats are in this link.

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11645594&t=8717433

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:00 pm - Aug 9, 2012


The SPL has been a disaster for the Scottish game – simply it doesn’t work

Look at the national team ranking
look at the number of players we have at TOP english clubs
Look at the number of players we have at mediocre/bottom feeding clubs
look at the number of Scottish players in Celtic (and until recently Rangers)

the national team is poor, because we are not producing players….why aren’t we producing players, because clubs are now buying mediocre journeyman foreigners and leaving the kids to sit on the bench.

there are players who are well into their 20’s and who have a handful of senior, professional, competitive games to their name. Pathetic.

Money has skewed the game in scotland.

We need to get back to growing our own talent and bringing it into the 1st team (easier said than done)

IMO, this can only be done by limiting the number of players in ANY team who have not come through the ranks/academy/youth set up of ANY scottish team

basically, a return to the 3 foreigners rule (the 8 diddies rule as it was called during Rangers early forays into the CL)

Now, European law bans the 3 foreigners rule – but i don’t see why the scottish fa/SPL can’t have a “must have come through the youth ranks/set up of a scottish club” rule

this would allow a team to sign a great “foreign” Under 18 year old player, bring him through the ranks and at the age of 21, he would be considered a “domestic” player.

alternatively, we just bring through our own youngsters and give them a chance.

I believe clubs should pay a % of their gate money into a prize pot

this pot will be made up of 40% of all home and ST gate receipts
ALL TV money
all sponsorship money
40% of any incomes received by any club from UEFA (i.e. CL league money)
5% tax on all transfer fees received

the money will be distributed to clubs based on a set criteria (still to be worked out but along the lines of)

1. Players wages to turnover ratio less than 60%
2. Club debt v’s annual turnover less than 25%
3. number of domestic youth system players in squad
4. game time of domestic youth players
5. league position
6. goals scored
7. progress in domestic cup comeptition

this gives clubs access to more income from teh prize pot for managing the club well financially, developing their own players (and playing them) and doing well ON the pitch

after several years, we would expect club debts to be elimanated and squads to be full of domestic players – so we could start to relax the rules a little and/or change how the finances are divided up

I also think there needs to be a change to summer football
games need to be a 3pm saturday kick off – or as close as possible
we need a Scottish football tv channel – showing live games ona PPV basis plus every night of the week there would be full matches, highlights, interviews etc.

there, i’ve fixed scottish football – now to sort the governing bodies

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longtimelurkerPosted on12:04 pm - Aug 9, 2012


A damning critique of the man who is the public face of the hoons.

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11614818&t=8707052

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ghirl1888Posted on12:13 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Dark Blue on August 9, 2012 at 11:41
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Ok 26 thumbs down but no posts refuting my suggestion. Look forward to
seeing better suggestions to ensure fairness.

————————-

This is a simple suggestion to promote fairness amongst ALL clubs, EVERYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH SCOTTISH FOOTBALL FOLLOW SCOTTISH FOOTBALL RULES, there you go, fair. This of course would have to start from the top of the SFA/SFL/SPL where the unfairness stems.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on12:15 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:00

=======================

You have answered your own post.

People are entitled to ply their trade throughout Europe, to bring in restrictive rules like you suggest would simply not be compliant with European law. There are rules regarding players coming in from outwith the EU but that is another matter entirely.

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SouthernExilePosted on12:17 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Test…..

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