The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).
Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.
The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.
The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.
Scottish Football Monitor asks contributors to remember only a few things;
1. The site is not the domain of any one club and is open to fans of all clubs.
2. Absolutely no discussion with regard to religion should take place.
3. Posters should refrain from using foul or abusive language.
Welcome to The Scottish Football Monitor
Gah. Blockquote fail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19108947
Ianc says:
August 3, 2012 at 11:32
Mrs Ianc.
Bad news gravitated to new blog.
FFS she says.
Great say I.
______________________________
You should have taken a leaf out of the spin doctor handbook. News management and spin is everything – as we should be well aware by now given the MSM we are privileged to enjoy.
So.
You : “Dearest, you are right, I am spending too much time on RTC. I recognise this and pledge to never post on the site again nor to read anyone else’s new posts”.
Significant other :
(version 1) ” that’s such a relief dear, I knew you would see my point of view”
(Version 2) – narrows eyes, purses lips. “It’s moved hasn’t it?”
First version indicates a strong supportive trusting relationship and is rare to the point of being seriously endangered.. Second version is almost universal.
I wonder if my cynicism is treatable?
Dundee’s SPL membership is ratified a day before opener
Dundee are now officially members of the Scottish Premier League – a day before their opening fixture of the season away to Kilmarnock.
The 12 members clubs unanimously approved the transfer of Rangers’ SPL share to the club which finished second in Division One last season.
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So 12 clubs did vote, who represented club 12?
How could 12 clubs vote when there would have to be 11 clubs only to enable Dundee to fill a free position??
Morning all.
So the SPL have voted this morning and the membership of RFC(IA) has now been transferred to Dundee.We can assume therefore,that the SFL will ratify Sevcos membership as all criteria will have been met.
CG will have satisfied everyone wrt future funding,who his investors are and the folk he accused last week of bogotry will have deemed him a “fit & proper” person.
This all done in under a week but because it suits the powers that be but the Dual contract investigation will take some time yet and deliver a sanction that means nothing.
Welcome to another corrupt season.
3 August 2012 Last updated at 11:16
Share this page 81ShareFacebookTwitter.print..Dundee’s SPL membership is ratified a day before opener
Dundee are now officially members of the Scottish Premier League – a day before their opening fixture of the season away to Kilmarnock.
The 12 members clubs unanimously approved the transfer of Rangers’ SPL share to the club which finished second in Division One last season.
Dundee were invited to take the Ibrox club’s place on 16 July after their new owners’ failure to avoid liquidation.
But the SPL had to wait until now to ratify the decision.
Charles Green’s controlling consortium had its new club voted into Division Three.
Rangers have already started their season with a 2-1 win over Brechin City in the Ramsdens Cup and host East Fife in the Scottish Communities League Cup on Tuesday.
They make their debut in Division Three away to Peterhead on 11 August.
(From BBC website.)
Still no word on SS getting a license to play in SFL
Chris says:
August 3, 2012 at 11:37
Chris you made reference to other clubs when refering to the enquiry and the outcome, the current commission is only looking at Rangers.
No matter who you support your view that other clubs are involved has no evidence in the public domain at this time.
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11543&back=home
I was astounded to hear Sportsound “talking up” Scottish football after taking a cue from their interview with Stephen Thompson of Dundee United. Thompson said that the Sky deal on the table would amount to a loss of less than 10% compared to the previous deal that was on the table. “Remarkable,” Richard Gordon said, “that there was so much talk of armageddon only a few weeks ago” singularly failing to note that much of that talk came from pundits on his own show. “Who could have predicted that the top flight could be in this position going into the new season,” he asked. Pretty much every soul on the RTC blog, for a start.
And spare a thought for poor, confused Terry Butcher:
11th May: “From our point of view, it would be a disaster if Rangers were not in the SPL. We need the Old Firm in the SPL for us to survive, like all the other clubs.”
2nd August: ““Rangers going makes it a much more open league than before. [ .. ] Every club is thinking they don’t have to play the Old Firm teams as often. Those games can blight a good run and if you suffer a heavy defeat it has repercussions on a club. [ .. ] We don’t have that now, it is much more open and there is the chance of one or two teams putting good, long runs together against the other sides.”
Talk about cognitive dissonance.
The current commission indeed is only looking at Rangers, this is true. The SFA letter I mentioned is no less relevant as a result though because make no mistake, Rangers will push for the sanctions applied to them to be applied across the board and they will be quite right to do so. I am putting my opinion down now as to how the future should be mapped in a manner as to guarantee the rules are applied regardless of fear or favour, just as it should be.
So there may not be other clubs involved as per the current commission, there will be in time, albeit perhaps with a different commission.
Chris
Whether Juninho got a severance payment via EBT or whatever if it wasn’t declared in his contract registration papers submitted to the SPL & SFA then Celtic should forfeit all matches in which Juninho was listed for ie played or was on the bench as he was technically improperly registered and therefore ineligible.
It’s a really simple concept ie all payment entitlements must be included and submitted at point of registration – and the same rules and processes must apply to all teams whether that is Rangers, Sevco, Celtic or Spartans.
Celtic would lose one Scottish Cup and probably a claim to 2nd place that season thus missing out on claiming one of Rangers forfeited titles should they be stripped of honours won for the same reasons.
Imran Ahmad founded Allenby Capital, and Brian Stockbridge worked for Allenby Capital. They have been nominated advisors for Nova Resources – of which Charles Green is a former chairman and former non-exec director. 6 days before Charles Green resigned ‘to concentrate on a new challenge (Rangers), a gentleman called Chris Morgan joined the non-exec board at Nova Resources. Both Stockbridge and Ahmad have been listed as advisors on official Nova Resources board announcements, prior to January of this year.
Allenby Capital have also previously been brokers and advisors for Octopus Investments. Octopus, as we know, own Ticketus. Octopus Investments also have numerous links to Zeus Capital… ”
Presume this all passed the SFA “fit and proper person” award during their discussings??
And the SFA are alright with this tangled web I presume???
Charlie Brown says:
August 3, 2012 at 11:00
To be fair to Sevco-Rangers though CH the SFA didn’t officially let them into Scottish fitba until sometime between 7pm-9pm on the Friday night and the game kicked off at 3pm on the Sunday – was anybody from the SFA prepared to come into work on the Saturday and Sunday and register all the “Rangers” players? I suspect they let them play the game on a conditional license subject to all players played being registered & approved within 7 days etc. It is as much a case of the SFA to blame for this gerrymandering of the rules to allow the game to go ahead as Sevco fault in holding up the process.
…………………………………………………………………………………………
I could agree if it was not obvious that sevco and the sfa had agreed all the conditions several days before and also for reasons to benefit sevco held the statement back to the last possible moment.
And given the lengths they have already went to then yes they could easily have come in on saturday and sunday to complete the registration but of course they wanted to hold everything off until the name change had taken place and until todays spl meeting.
If Dundee get the spl share today then it will be done there and then and they will be in the spl for this weekends game without a “special” license to play in the spl because of time restraints.
I suggest a special section is created on this blog for logging incidents that need to be monitored.
Points and questions that are grouped together and at some time can be put the people in power at the sfa, spl and even our own teams directors.
So far since the newstart for newco we have,,
Big0try claims.
Singing banned songs.
Unregistered players
Two teams on two leagues at same time.
Green representing two teams in two different leagues
Trialists playing although supposedly on 3 year contract.
No accounts
Are all directors and backers disclosed
I think we need to have a list of “issues” that require to be monitored and as we the fans and paying customers are satisfied with the explanation given we can remove them one by one from the list.
Im sure Ally and Sandy will agree as they also have their own little list of clubs and fans they are going to remember.
I lurked around RTC for over a year and never thought it would bring the results it did. To see fans of all decent clubs come together to fight the injustices in scottish football was inspirng and I have now vowed to play a more active part by contributing to this site when I feel that i can add value. There will be no scottish msm for me, TSFM is where I know I’ll get the truth. Let’s keep up the pressure and let them know we ain’t going to go away and that we’re watching their every move.
That only covers the case of receiving a severance EBT at registration time which is the less likely of the two scenarios (to my mind it’s more likely to have a contractual right to a severance payment, which would be recorded, then the mechanics of that payment – the EBT – to be set up when necessary)
What about creating an EBT specifically for severance and specifically after the registration (i.e. at the point he was being given it)?
Contracts are renegotiated with players on an ongoing basis – it’s at the point the new contract is deemed to be in effect that is crucial. Dodds’ statement is a case in point of this – he mentioned he was asked whether he would accept an EBT for severance. It’s quite possible Juninho’s case is similar (the EBT itself would be arranged well after registration)
And if a player had an EBT set up but never received a penny from it then they could argue it was an agreement to agree to do something which was never fulfilled, and thus again out of scope.
The Rangers Football Club Limited to float on the AIM market in October. Zeus getting advisers in now.
English FA paying £500,000 to SFA in relation to the Steve Davis transfer. SFA will deduct £196,000 in respect of fines and pass the balance to Charles Green.
Chris says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:02
The current commission indeed is only looking at Rangers, this is true. The SFA letter I mentioned is no less relevant as a result though because make no mistake, Rangers will push for the sanctions applied to them to be applied across the board and they will be quite right to do so. I am putting my opinion down now as to how the future should be mapped in a manner as to guarantee the rules are applied regardless of fear or favour, just as it should be.
==================================================================
The SFA letter is irrelevant, there has never been anything produced that states otherwise.
Unless Rangers know that another club has put their hand up, they cannot use this as any defence.
They cannot use it as a defence anyway, it is again, whataboutery.
Unless therefore you have some proof, no other teams have done anything wrong regarding this.
Spanishcelt
Gretna FC prior to liquidation and the newly formed Gretna FC 2008 both co-existed for several weeks prior to final winding up and both were technically members of different leagues albeit in that instance Gretna 2008 didn’t apply for the transferrance of the old membership it was a clean newco, new-club and new SFA membership application but they did co-exist on separate league bodies with presumably the same or similar people attached to both clubs at least for a short period of time.
TSFM, am I stuck with THAT gravatar unless I choose another??
Actually the Gretna story debunks another Doncaster myth peddled during the Rangers saga that he claimed there had never been a newco scenario in Scottish football during the SPL time but it was a common route out of administration in England.
There was indeed a newco story in Scottish football – Gretna went into administration and just barely managed to complete their SPL season with special financial assistance before, being relegated and failing to get a CVA approved, being liquidated, forming a newco & new-club but failing to get SFL admission thus forcing them to start in the East of Scotland League as they didn’t have 3 years accounts.
Charlie Brown says: August 3, 2012 at 12:07
Whether Juninho got a severance payment via EBT or whatever if it wasn’t declared in his contract registration papers submitted to the SPL & SFA then Celtic should forfeit all matches in which Juninho was listed for ie played or was on the bench as he was technically improperly registered and therefore ineligible.
================================
The chances are that the terms for early termination of his contract would have been documented i.e. the player would be paid the balance.
If it was the case that any severence payment was made by EBT, cheque, cash in used £5 notes or whatever, then it is of no consequence to the footballing authorities, although it obviously would be to to HMRC.
smallteaser says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:23
Chris says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:02
The current commission indeed is only looking at Rangers, this is true. The SFA letter I mentioned is no less relevant as a result though because make no mistake, Rangers will push for the sanctions applied to them to be applied across the board and they will be quite right to do so. I am putting my opinion down now as to how the future should be mapped in a manner as to guarantee the rules are applied regardless of fear or favour, just as it should be.
==================================================================
The SFA letter is irrelevant, there has never been anything produced that states otherwise.
Unless Rangers know that another club has put their hand up, they cannot use this as any defence.
They cannot use it as a defence anyway, it is again, whataboutery.
Unless therefore you have some proof, no other teams have done anything wrong regarding this.
How is it irrelevant? Rangers’ EBT is only being investigated as a result of the FTTT & RTC et al’s work, otherwise it would never have seen the light of day. Only massive pressure from fans is keeping the issue in the spotlight.
What the SPL do in one case they must do in others otherwise by definition they are treating one club differently from the rest.
The proof of using an EBT is in Celtic’s annual report for the season 2004/2005. It’s not whataboutery to raise the issue – what would be whataboutery is saying “aye but Celtic did it as well” in the hope of receiving no sanctions.
You’re confusing the furore over the lack of tax paid by Rangers in this – it’s not in doubt that Celtic paid the tax, however many years later. What is quite right to ask is whether Celtic’s use of an EBBT contravened the rules.
We are near 100% certain Rangers’ did for many of their players, and it’s folly to think the investigations of the SPL should end after that, they shouldn’t. It shouldn’t be confined to EBT’s either, let’s not forget Rangers have already admitted using the Discounted Options Scheme (the wee tax case) for Flo & De Boer. The SFA letter asks all clubs whether they’ve made payments outside of declared contracts. That is what should be kept in focus following this commission’s findings otherwise it really is just about Rangers & that is as wrong as ignoring the issue completely.
Again – let me state, for the record – I am of the opinion rumours saying Celtic used Juninho’s EBT as a severance won’t have been proven a breach of the rules, but given we know the Club used an EBT we should expect that to be looked at. Ditto for the DOS scheme, and any other schemes revealed by clubs in their responses to the SFA letter.
Can TSFM or somebody please post a short explanation of creating or completing a user profile so I / we can rid of these wee monster gravatars and select something else instead. Thanks in advance. 🙂
Precisely my thinking as well, ej.
easyJambo says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:36
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Charlie Brown says: August 3, 2012 at 12:07
Whether Juninho got a severance payment via EBT or whatever if it wasn’t declared in his contract registration papers submitted to the SPL & SFA then Celtic should forfeit all matches in which Juninho was listed for ie played or was on the bench as he was technically improperly registered and therefore ineligible.
================================
The chances are that the terms for early termination of his contract would have been documented i.e. the player would be paid the balance.
If it was the case that any severence payment was made by EBT, cheque, cash in used £5 notes or whatever, then it is of no consequence to the footballing authorities, although it obviously would be to to HMRC.
=================================
Except eJ we are then falling into trap or gray area of whether an EBT Trust payment constitutes a 3rd party payment and not a payment from the club but i also realise that pension and annuity payments etc also might fall into such a category.
I think what is clear is that the current rules need to be re-examined and revised where necessary in view of the Rangers tax case crisis.
There are certain things of which we as a country can be proud.
Football administration is not one of them.
As earlier said,if the SPL do not handle this enquiry into dual contracts firmly then it leaves the rule making element of the game in dissarray. As to the concern over naming names within the commission,app,trib et al then certain groups in our society,who have threatened and harassed should be deeply ashamed .
There are of course people,Turnbull Hutton comes to mind,who refuse to be intimidated by such shameless rabble rousing.
I
What news of BDO liquidation process and winding up of D&P’s work? Anything?
Ah, so this is where you’ve all got to.
There’s no getting rid of me! lol!
Althetim 09:59
So it has begun, (did it ever stop?) the establishment club with the help of the Ministry of Public Enlightenment are now beginning to rewrite history after laying the groundwork over previous months.
We must challenge every rewrite and condemn all falsehoods.
Again, I would point to the time: If a player receives a thirdparty but plays no further matches for the club, or just leaves at the exact same time, his registration automatically reverting to the SFA or transferred to another club whether domestically or internationally, then at that point in time it’s difficult to see what the SFA could do about it (assuming the above regarding contractual right to severance being recorded and the mechanics of that severance being the part in question.
Charlie Brown says: August 3, 2012 at 12:36
You need to sign up with Gravatar at https://en.gravatar.com/site/signup/ and upload an image of your choice, then click the icon to the left of your email address in the wordpress comment area to activate.
I think it would be more dignified if all clubs that used EBT’s accepted they were against the spirit of the rules and should be subject to disciplinary processes accordingly even if they might try to claim they didn’t break the letter of the law.
I would be interested to know which part of my post activated ‘awaiting moderation’? or are you doing this to everyone that transfers over from RTC?
There is also the question of the tax money saved or not paid by clubs who make use of such schemes also confers a financial and sporting advantage versus competitors not using these types of schemes.
easyJambo says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:47
Cheers eJ i take a look at that later – I’ll stick with the wee ghoul for now tho. 🙂
Goodbye rangerstaxcae, hello Scottish football monitor!
If we had football authorities with any sense of gravitas and decency then they would have already commissioned a report and investigation into not only what happened at Ibrox ie the Nimmo-Smith report but also the seeming proliferation of payments schemes dreamt up by tax avoiders etc which may or may not fall foul of the tax man depending on how they’ve been administered. I can accept that players as individuals might want to save on their tax payments and as long as that is legitimate and genuine but it seems that all manner of sham or phoney schemes ie image rights etc have been set up to save clubs and players from paying taxes.
A good football association in light of the Rangers scandal would be already working with an independant commission and HMRC to draw up and acceptable framework for legitimate footballers payments ie salary, bonuses, contract termination or signing on payments etc.
To my mind I seriously doubt the Rangers story is anything other than the thin end of a grubby wedge within football and Scottish football regards payments made and due taxes paid. I think a lot of people are on the take and on the make to a greater or lesser degree.
Jeez,Is this it ?.Back to the EBT’s, it’s dual contracts that are the real issue here.
No matter how many times it is said it seems as if some people cannot leave the Juninho case alone. Celtic paid the tax,if they paid it late, so what?.
Rangers did not pay what they were supposed to,that is the the reason for the inquiry. No amount of intentional distraction can alter the fact that Rangers systematically over a period of at Least 10 years cheated the taxpayer out of MILLIONS.
If anybody out there thinks that the two cases are in any way comparable,you need your head looked at.
Jono says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:43′
‘What news of BDO liquidation process and winding up of D&P’s work? Anything?’
—-
I refer again to very recent posts. The liquidation process has not begun! It cannot be started until Lord Hodge brings the ‘Administration’ process to an end. BDO are waiting in the wings for the cue to start.
Actually it’s not the tax that’s not why the SPL are investigating Rangers. The outcome of not paying the tax has relevance for the sanction because it allowed them to employ footballers they wouldn’t have been able to, but the SPL can only enforce what’s in their rules & the bit that Rangers contravened is the registration of players.
The FTTT are handling the tax side of things.
Nobody is comparing things – that’s not how applying the rules works.
Applying the rules means actually applying what is in the rules in all cases.
Rangers’ use of EBT’s is suspected to have contravened the rules on player registrations. They “why” is separate as far as the rules are concerned.
After lurking on RTC for quite some time, soaking up the quality information and learning more in a day than from the media in a year, I’m delighted to see this new blog plans to carry on the good work. With every passing day certain individuals and outlets in the mainstream media get further and further out of touch with the majority of fans. Unable to bend with the changing times they cling to broken models in order to preserve a status quo that are neither desirable or sustainable. I hope this blog provides a platform for sustained and powerful debate on the failings of the media, and in doing so can help force change in the weeks, months and years ahead. Best of luck, everyone.
Hey where did my new monicker go?
Twas with a nod & a wink to RTC’s post http://theorwellprize.co.uk/news/rangers-tax-case-on-writing-politics/
– Lunchtime O’Booze (The Poster Formerly Known As Chris)
john clarke says:
August 3, 2012 at 13:09
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Jono says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:43′
‘What news of BDO liquidation process and winding up of D&P’s work? Anything?’
—-
I refer again to very recent posts. The liquidation process has not begun! It cannot be started until Lord Hodge brings the ‘Administration’ process to an end. BDO are waiting in the wings for the cue to start.
———————————————————————————————————————–
Can someone explain whether D&P’s performance as administrator’s including their effectiveness at reducing overhead and external cost during the period in order to address creditor accounts will be assessed and published. And thereafter, what is BDO’s role and remit in reviewing asset sales – for whatever purpose -during the period.
Tic 6709 says:
August 3, 2012 at 13:07
‘.Jeez,Is this it ?.Back to the EBT’s, it’s dual contracts that are the real issue here.’
—-
Tic 6709, I share your irritation at the inability, or downright troll-like unwillingness , of some to comprehend that the charge against the club that used to be in the SPL is one of failure to comply with Football rules, by making payments that were not disclosed in the contracts submitted to the SFA, as required..
Whether that club or any other club is honest in its dealings with the taxman is quite a separate issue.
(But it so happens that the club in question has not paid a huge amount of tax. CFC on the other hand is fully up to date with its tax and NI payments).
So, if others would kindly stick to the actual issue: Did SDM make payments to a whole string of relatively important players while sending contracts to the SFA in which those payments were not declared as part of the contractual remuneration?.
And we should be making damned sure that the Commission is not allowed to limit their investigation in order to shield and hide possible rank corruption among senior officials in the SFA who had particular connections with the accused club.
Chris
regardless of if player X gets a severance payment and plays no further games if he gets that payment from an undocumented source then that surely renders his whole registration as void or incomplete does it not? It certainly would appear to be in breach of the rules if undocumented 3rd parties are making payments. Are we now saying that we have to analyse every Rangers player who got an EBT payment and the timing of such payments to see if they infringed on any matches or do we not simply accept the fact that any ‘unregistered’ payments makes that players registration breached ?
Re Messi’s comment at 21.16 last night re the argument that the history continues because the club is separate from the company, I’ve seen many posters on RTC use other instances as examples to prove that the history is gone but haven’t seen anyone use the example of Southampton a few years back to disprove the ‘holding company’ argument. Apologies if I simply missed it (as a late joiner), but I think this article applies just as well to RFC* as to Southampton.
“Southampton have been effectively relegated after being docked 10 points by the Football League.
The ruling comes after Saints’ parent company went into administration, though the club and administrators say they expect to launch an appeal.
Four points off safety with two games to go, Saints will lose 10 points if they stay up in the Championship.
And if they do not avoid finishing in the bottom three then the points penalty will take effect next season.
The south coast outfit had hoped to avoid the punishment as they argued that it was their parent company Southampton Leisure Holdings plc (SLH) which had gone into administration on 2 April – not the football club.
But a League investigation by “independent forensic accountants” found that the football club and SLH were “inextricably linked as one economic entity” and applied their mandatory penalty.
The League also found that: “The holding company has no income of its own; all revenue and expenditure is derived from the operation of Southampton Football Club and the associated stadium company.
“The holding company is solvent in its own right. It only becomes insolvent when account is taken of the position of Southampton football club and the other group companies.”
The statement added that there was no alternative other than to invoke the 10-point penalty. ”
If only we had “independent forensic accountants” in Scotland. Oh wait, we do…but here rather than reporting to the SFA/SPL!
Thanks, PL, for allowing this continuation. A couple of things I’d like to see avoided –
1. Ray Charles’ post with RTC’s “good guys” cast as CFC players is unpalatable for an inclusive blog IMO. This can sometimes feel like a CFC blog and while until now that has been sort of understandable (RTC’s thrust was anti-corruption but focussed on RFC* and it was always positioned by MSM that only CFC were anti-RFC*), the site needs to be more widely focussed on ‘corruption’ in our game – the MSM, SFA etc. Fans of all clubs (and none) need to be involved in this, so the blog cannot afford to turn anyone off.
2. Rumours of refs with EBTs – indeed any rumours – can be a distraction, so not sure how useful they are. I accept that many whistleblowing events can start as rumours until investigated and substantiated, so I guess there’s a balance to be struck. Believe rumours from credible posters only, ignoring others maybe? That’s a question for me, I guess.
3. Finally, I’m not sure how much more than a talking shop this can be. For example, lots of righteous indignation on RTC and here about how, and for which entity, players were registered for the Brechin game. We can ask – and indeed some have asked – the powers that be (!), but without insiders, how do we actually force them to answer publicly? I’m hopeless and can’t help – how do we get that insight? NB this isn’t a slight on the new site. I had the same concerns before.
1. Chris says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:36
How is it irrelevant? Rangers’ EBT is only being investigated as a result of the FTTT & RTC et al’s work, otherwise it would never have seen the light of day. Only massive pressure from fans is keeping the issue in the spotlight.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Chris
Rangers EBTs are simply the mechanism whereby players were illegally registered. It could just as easily be called “brown envelopes”
This latest “EBT Investigation” is simply more corruption from the SFA which is being backed to the hilt by every single MSM suggesting they have received an off the record briefing
The rags to a man are conflating an illegally run tax avoidance scheme with illegal player registration
No doubt they will soon be describing the investigation as being into an illegally run tax avoidance scheme They will then use this argument to call for no action until the FTT have ruled
So
The purpose of this so called “EBT Investigation” is to pretend to the public that somehow RFC(deid) are innocent of illegal registration if HMRC declare EBTs have not been improperly used for tax avoidance
The converse is equally inferred
ie if HMRC find in favour of RFC then the SFA will not punish illegal registration of EBTs
This is almost certainly part of a secret deal between King Charles and his fearful Serf Regan
This corrupt action poses a great danger for the game
and its this
If HMRC find in favour of RFC(deid) the SFA will very likely not pursue illegal registrations
If HMRC find against RFC(deid) the SFA may still take the cowards way out by stripping titles for tax evasion and not for illegal registration
Stripping titles for tax evasion would be challengeable in court as it is none of the SFAs business whether players or clubs engage in tax evasion
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The real significance is that its a continuation of corrupt behavior by Regan and Donkey in favour of RFC(deid)
And it is no coincidence that conflating the issues helps Sevco sell more STs
Nauseating
Nice to see someone’s carrying on the good fight against the biased Scottish media.
All the best.
With respect JC, that’s not all he said, he mentioned in addition (quoting):
Rangers did not pay what they were supposed to,that is the the reason for the inquiry.
The issue isn’t “dual contracts” it’s player registrations. That means it IS the EBT’s because they were the means to provide wages to the player outside of the declared contract. I say wages when really it’s any payment which isn’t expenses incurred, so sayeth the rule book.
Whether a player had a side letter is irrelevant (although those side letters aren’t irrelevant as far as the FTTT is concerned because they hinder Rangers’ ability to prove the discretionary nature of the payments and provide a reasonable evidence that the payments were indeed wages).
Side letters, dual contracts, is not what the SPL are investigating, it’s payments of any kind which weren’t expenses and were made to the players but not submitted alongside that players contract when registering (with the caveat that submissions might be made afterwards in the case of a renegotiated contract, for example)
There’s no ‘trolling’ with mentioning the Juninho EBT, not at all, it’s an attempt to show that we’re not just focussed on “sticking it to Rangers” as their fat manager & pudding of a CEO claim. It’s about making sure consistent and deliberate rule breaches are dealt with.
I am happy to raise the Juninho EBT because I believe it will have been a severance payment and setup only at the time of his departure (i.e. not when he was first signed and registered) and thus he would not have been receiving any payments outside his contract during his playing time with Celtic.
john clarke says:
August 3, 2012 at 13:24
John Iam of the opinion that ALL payment mechanisms at ALL Scottish clubs or certainly at SPL clubs where these practices are probably more relevant given the higher payment amounts involved need to be investigated and cleaned up.
The Rangers Tax Case was one particular example of players receiving undocumented payments that breached both tax laws and football rules.
Rangers got caught and deservedly so but we cannot blithely assume that there are no other problems lurking or shady practices practised at other clubs.
Tens of millions of Tax Payers money was ultimately not paid by the failures of Rangers FC and Scottish football to effectively monitor and ensure how Scottish football players were being paid.
That is an outrage or at least it should be.
If we want to clean up Scottish football then we should at least be going through all SPL clubs payment practices and rooting out any or all shady schemes wherever these may be encountered.
It’s time to clean up our act and that doesn’t just meaning clubs self certifying themselves that they are okay and up to date.
How our players are paid and the schemes they participate in should be put under far closer scrutiny imo.
Testing to find out the look of my new allocated Gravatar!!
Chris,Thanks for that. Did you read my post? My fault for not making it clear, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about 2 different things. Dual contracts -SPL. Stealing MILLIONS -Hector.
Rangers use of EBT’s is suspected to have contravened the rules on player registrations ?.
Are you Joking?. suspected .!!
Mark Daly’s programme exposed the cheating that went on. Or do you not believe the proof that he discovered?
BY the way what rules? The rules everybody is supposed to adhere to,or the rules according to anybody connected to Rangers IA.
Congratulations to Dundee FC for gaining SPL status again
OT, I got a wee Green man that looks like me,I’m over the Moon. (is my web cam on ?).
Tic 6709 says:
August 3, 2012 at 13:07
Jeez,Is this it ?.Back to the EBT’s, it’s dual contracts that are the real issue here.
No matter how many times it is said it seems as if some people cannot leave the Juninho case alone. Celtic paid the tax,if they paid it late, so what?.
Rangers did not pay what they were supposed to,that is the the reason for the inquiry. No amount of intentional distraction can alter the fact that Rangers systematically over a period of at Least 10 years cheated the taxpayer out of MILLIONS.
If anybody out there thinks that the two cases are in any way comparable,you need your head looked at.
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What you are looking at here is a mindset that will use the rules but avoid the underlying principles at play to suit their purpose. Its like a ref giving a player a yellow cad when it should have been a red and folk arguing nothing can be done because the ref although mistaken in giving a yellow made his decision and it has to stand regardless of the violence of the offence he might have missed at the time. The principle that cautions are there to deter violent foul play gets lost in “the rules” themselves.
What is the principle behind requiring all player income to be recorded on registration, why is it insisted on? I never gave it much thought but if it is to ensure clubs are not making off the record payments to induce players to play for them, perhaps a legacy of cash payment days, then there is an undepinning sport principle that by making underhand payments, the club doing so gains an unfair sporting advantage over clubs who play it by the book.
The unfair sporting advantage gained definitely applies to EBTS if HMRC get the nod from the FTT. Rangers will have made unlawful use of a system that gave them unfair advantage over their opponents.
The danger is that the scrupulous mindset will take dual registration as a “rules” matter only to further their case and in the case of Rangers, they wouldargue that the failure could be put down to administrative oversight deserving only of a fine, whilst the principle of unfair advantage gained, the fact they had men in the SFA who knew it was dodgy (M Bain) but said nothinbg (not to mention the principle of unlawful tax avoidance) would not be factored in.
In the Juhino case regardless of whether Celtic revealed it and paid their taxes and there is nothing systemic in it, that principle would be lost by the unprincipled scrupulous mindset that even thinks the two issues are equal.
When old Adam walked the RTC blog he was typical of the scrupulous mind that knows the rules but not why they exist in the first place (although to be fair to Adam I think he did know and was playinhg a game, but many of his fellow supporters just do not seem to get principles or ethics and how they are the foundation of the rules.
My Wee Red Book has Club 12 still showing, and no Sevco yet in the 3rd Div. It also shows a team called Rangers who have no fixures in any of the leagues. 🙂 For the first time, the WRB could become a collector’s item.
The rags to a man are conflating an illegally run tax avoidance scheme with illegal player registration
No doubt they will soon be describing the investigation as being into an illegally run tax avoidance scheme They will then use this argument to call for no action until the FTT have ruled.
I know it can be construed that way Goosy, i personally think it’s cos the media are no monumentally s*it-thick they just don’t know where to put their faces just now so they try to deflect. For what it’s worth, I think there’s some merit in delaying because the rules concern payments made to players in return for their services. If the FTTT were to return a verdict that the EBT scheme was OK and the loans the players took out were actually discretionary loans, then that present a BIG problem for the SPL because it would centre around the definition of the word “payments”. If a tax tribunal staffed with judges thinks the monies were loans then the SPL would have to take a huge leap in declaring them payments (I use the word payments here to mean monies paid from one party to another in return for services rendered and which becomes the property of the payee afterwards; a loan doesn’t satisfy this because it remains liable for repayment. Of course a series of letters saying the liability to repayment doesn’t exist is something one would imagine precludes the FTTT returning such a verdict)
The purpose of this so called “EBT Investigation” is to pretend to the public that somehow RFC(deid) are innocent of illegal registration if HMRC declare EBTs have not been improperly used for tax avoidance
That’s precisely what they’ll claim though if the FTTT favours Rangers. and they would have (whilst not a precedent-setting, certainly weighty) legal opinion in their favour.
The converse is equally inferred, ie if HMRC find in favour of RFC then the SFA will not punish illegal registration of EBTs
This isn’t the converse – it’s the same as the earlier part (FTTT finds Rangers innocent) – If I’m reading you wrong here, apologies 🙂
This is almost certainly part of a secret deal between King Charles and his fearful Serf Regan
I don’t agree with this, I think it’s the fear of punishing the mighty Rangers is all, oh and the ‘Bowling Club’ mentality which still pervades the SFA (albeit below Regan’s level). I also believe this might abate following their acceptance into Division 3 (there’s nothing left to protect…almost)
This corrupt action poses a great danger for the game and its this:
If HMRC find in favour of RFC(deid) the SFA will very likely not pursue illegal registrations
The SPL may not, for the reasons I posited above.
If HMRC find against RFC(deid) the SFA may still take the cowards way out by stripping titles for tax evasion and not for illegal registration
Tax evasion would be an SFA matter (disrepute) not SPL would it not? I don’t think the SPL rules can do anything about tax evasion per se, although disrepute possibly. No, I honestly believe if the FTTT find against Rangers then the SPL via the Commission will move quickly because legal opinion is behind them and they can consider the payments to be actual payments and not loans
Stripping titles for tax evasion would be challengeable in court as it is none of the SFAs business whether players or clubs engage in tax evasion
Actually the SPL might not, but the SFA would, they already have when you consider they fisted Craigy Boy over the non-payment of taxes & the resultant bringing the game into disrepute.
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The real significance is that its a continuation of corrupt behavior by Regan and Donkey in favour of RFC(deid). And it is no coincidence that conflating the issues helps Sevco sell more STs
Hopefully now they’re in Division 3 we’ll see an end to the Rangers preservation society (Armageddon seems to have gone away quietly after all) and they’ll grow a pair and ensure justice is done
Nauseating
Agreed.
(Had to switch back from my attempted new monicker of Lunchtime O’Booze to Chris to reply cos the other replies are in moderation…)
We need to use the word suspected because until the commission returns a verdict then the suspicion of contravening registration rules it’s not proven, that’s all I meant 🙂
We all know they’re bang to rights, but until there’s a verdict against them they can cling to the ‘not proven’ nonsense. That’ll end soon enough 🙂
Nawlite says:
August 3, 2012 at 13:31
‘……We can ask – and indeed some have asked – the powers that be (!), but without insiders, how do we actually force them to answer publicly? I’m hopeless and can’t help ….’
—-
Do not despair.
In so far as public money has gone in to Scottish Football, we as taxpayers ( i.e. people who actually pay into the public coffers, unlike the club that used to be in the SPL which has caused so much feckin damage and confusion) we have some right to keep asking for answers.
These issues are not the private concern of private individuals. They will not go away, no matter how much stonewalling the ‘authorities’ might try to indulge in.
You say you’re’ hopeless and and can’t help.?
Fiddlesticks!
Put your queries in writing, bang the letter in an envelope and, not trusting the effectiveness even of their ordinary business administration, send it recorded delivery to the SFA CEO. Give them a couple of weeks or so to reply. And keep doing that until you get a reasonable and reasoned response.
It is disgraceful that none of the MSM hacks has the elliptical male appendages to do this. But we know that already, so we must do it ourselves.
I’ll get my letter off asap.
For the gravatars (pics) it’s really simple folks. Go to your user name top right of the screen, click on the pic and you’ll go to settings. Go to public profile and then “change gravatar”. Simples.
Torquemada says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:43
Ah, so this is where you’ve all got to.
There’s no getting rid of me! lol!
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Indeed. To quote Mel Brroks “You can’t Torquemada anything!”
spanishcelt says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:12
I think we need to have a list of “issues” that require to be monitored and as we the fans and paying customers are satisfied with the explanation given we can remove them one by one from the list.
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I think this is a splendid idea. Not knowing much about WordPress, I’m wondering if the mods are able to add a tab alongside the “About” tab on the top menu bar, for an issues and questions log. There are just so many unanswered questions that it’s tough to keep track of them, and some could easily slip away.
Well, if we’re looking at this from a “nail it down” perspective, then you need to consider what a club might do in appeal to such a charge of void registration For example, how can you backdate a void registration? Everything happens at a point in time after all and if the action which invalidates the registration (let’s call the the date of signing the contract or piece of paper which says ‘you can apply to this trust for a loan’) occurs after the player’s final match for a club then that club would have a helluva good shout at saying the registration was valid during his playing time.
My earlier suggestion was that the SPL should take the period of offence (so we’re clear – this part ignores a severance payment, and only concerns ‘regular’ payments during a season etc) to be the date from the first received payment to the last.
I think the FTT is doing the analysis of every player (cos for tax purposes, they’ll have to – every employees tax affairs are managed separately) and the SPL will piggyback on that.
Since registrations are on a per-player basis too, I don’t see what else the SPL can do other than look at every player. The good part for the SPL inquiry though is the fact there were at least 11 players on the pitch playing at any one time, the net widens to include any sub of course, and a lot of those players played for years. The SPL can make them forfeit a match if only ONE player on the pitch is improperly regsitered so can save a lot of time the FTTT can’t just by applying a blanket policy to that one player which covers entire seasons where appropriate.
Tic 6709 says:
August 3, 2012 at 13:42
This came from Jim Delahunt on Clyde stating a player or players other than at Rangers had an EBT. He knew fine well it was Juhino at Celtic and the background, but set the hare running to get calls (his job after all). Sure enough within 10 minutes a Rangers supporter called in to confirm that an EBT had been used outside of Rangers. Cue more tonight and before you know it Juhino will have played in all games and in all postions including goalie since 1966.
It is as if the world lives in two time zones ELT (Everday Life Time and BT Blog Time where blog time is 3 months ahead of life time.
Tic 6709 says:
August 3, 2012 at 13:42 Previous in moderation because of Delah*nt
This came from Jim Delahvnt on Clyde stating a player or players other than at Rangers had an EBT. He knew fine well it was Juhino at Celtic and the background, but set the hare running to get calls (his job after all). Sure enough within 10 minutes a Rangers supporter called in to confirm that an EBT had been used outside of Rangers. Cue more tonight and before you know it Juhino will have played in all games and in all postions including goalie since 1966.
It is as if the world lives in two time zones ELT (Everday Life Time and BT Blog Time where blog time is 3 months ahead of life time.
Charlie Brown earlier mentioned the Nimmo-Smith report. This definately needs to be added to the outstanding issues and questions list. Why has this report never been made public? What is in it that is so explosive that the authorities have done their utmost to bury it and pretend it never happened?
It would be interesting to get somebody who works in Tax or HMRC to opine on the validity of the various tax minimizing, avoiding or even evading schemes that football club knowingly use and where these might be in breach of football rules.
Image rights etc is certainly one that deserves closer scrutiny – how do these work? presumably a player gets part of his wages paid through the football club and a certain other percentage paid to his ‘image rights’ company which then pays him in such a way as to minimize his tax payments.
How does that work with regard to who is paid by whom and how that is recorded and interpreted in football contracts which ultimately has eligibility implications according to football’s rules.
It seems like a very tangled web is spun but given even the SFA President is in receipt of a very large ‘loan’ payment that will likely never be repaid nor fully taxed I can see that there is probably little appetite within the governance of football to start looking under these stones.
RayCharles says:
August 3, 2012 at 14:10
I’ll second you not being an arbiter of good taste as I’m on the list, and in the humorous spirit you offered the orginal I’ll quote from Grouch Marx
“I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member.” 😉
I cannot see there being any fudge from now on in with regard to the current enquiries into RFC’s demise. Whilst this may be wishful thinking we have to remember that the genie is out of the bottle.
We have the pending BDO involvement following the Hodge ruling.We have the FTT outcome with possible delays due to suggested criminal action,and we have the SPL dual contract enquiry.
In addition we have a possible multiplicity of court actions to follow in relation to finances and ownership.In addition Police investigations currently ongoing.
There is in essence too much now ‘out there’ for an establishment cover up.
We also have Barca nuclear moments currently pending fusion.
SFM will have ample opportunity to comment on this brave new world, as lo and behold Armageddon failed to take place.
One thing we know already ,there has been a gross lack of dignity in the way that principal players at Ibrox have carried themselves and this in itself is worthy of objective comment and a firm hand from SFA compliance.
Dignity in Scottish Football
Domaine Jessiaume says:
August 3, 2012 at 12:20
The Rangers Football Club Limited to float on the AIM market in October. Zeus getting advisers in now.
English FA paying £500,000 to SFA in relation to the Steve Davis transfer. SFA will deduct £196,000 in respect of fines and pass the balance to Charles Green.
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I thought the AIM was closing as there was no demand for it?
What are the fines totalling £196,000? £160,000 for disrepute, payable over a year, any others??
Are some of these fines for not paying Dundee Utd for the cup tie, which was supposedly paid?
If the rest is getting paid to SevCO rather than the creditors of Rangers then UEFA must have responded to the request for TUPE law. Has anyone seen this judgement in print anywhere? Has anyone asked the SFA if this has been resolved.
When a club buys a player they buy the registration, anything else is slavery. SevCO do not and cannot hold the registration of any Rangers players, they did not exist as a club.
Blindsummit says:
August 3, 2012 at 14:20
What Rangers told the SFA they had agreed with HMRC re the wee tax bill would be something that should have been looked at and somethingthe SFA would not be keen on making public (they have had ample opportunity).
Captain H, they were not registered to play in that cup game. If they were registered properly don’t you think that SFA would be shouting it from the rooftops.
In any proper organisation Brechin would be awarded the game immediately.
I think SFA/ SPL are slowly dismantling the game of football in Scotland.
How can they adjucate on any case that comes before them in the future. They have flouted so many rules that any club now can operate without fear of sanction.
Perhaps we can compile a large list of all our unresolved issues or queries, break them down into their relevant SFA / SPL / SFL issues and then compose and send a letter to all of Regan, Doncaster & Longmuir asking for their answers or responses to these unresolved or inconsistency issues.
Maybe they each would not relish or like the thought of answering 30+ searching questions and indeed they might even just ignore us but surely we can but try – it certainly seems like the media won’t breach these subjects?
And indeed in the case where they won’t want to answer specifics pending some further actions we can also ask them supplementary questions that are nuetral ie if Club X or Player Y had been found guilty of Z then what range of punishments could we expect? etc
No announcement on SFA membership yet for Rangers, No announcement on Rangers joining the SFL, No announcement on any player registrations, is it another 20:58 shot tonight?
Celtic Underground @celticrumours
Could the hold up in the BTC be due to an ex manager legally challenging the decision to call him a out of work, ginger, tax dodger?