As most of you will be aware, the Guardian recently agreed to and accepted payment from CQN for an advertisement which was intended to raise awareness of the Resolution 12 issue, an issue pursued determinedly by Celtic shareholders for the last three years. Subsequently, and citing the thinnest of excuses, they decided not to run the ad. This developed hard on the heels of the Herald actually soliciting the business from the advertisers for their own paper, and then without even seeing the copy, refusing to move forward. (See CQN story here)
A troubling aspect of GuardianGate is that CQN were lied to. They were initially advised that the ad was to be removed after editorial scrutiny. Subsequently they were advised that the decision came from an intervention by senior officials.
We are now focused on a media conspiracy to impose censorship in favour of a multi-million pound industry – to the detriment of its small investors and paying customers.
So which was true – and which was the lie?
Here’s a thing about the truth; it is seldom complicated, which is why the failure by the Guardian and the Herald to deliver a straightforward answer implies that there may be more to this nonsense than any of us first imagined.
At this point, it is worth noting that the Guardian is currently running an ad campaign by Toyota, a company who have admitted lying to environmental regulatory bodies for years about emissions from their cars (the Guardian professes to be a major campaigner on environmental issues), but won’t accept a paying ad that asks some polite and important questions about the conduct of a multi-million pound industry.
The denial of the Res 12 guys’ right to ask questions (no accusations – just bloody questions) via the once assumed to be pluralist and free press, should be ringing alarm bells all over the country, and the substantive issue has become largely irrelevant as a consequence. We are now focused on a media conspiracy to impose censorship in favour of a multi-million pound industry – to the detriment of its small investors and paying customers.
Two so-called quality newspapers, have mysteriously, after touting for advertising business, refused that very same business, and have given no good reason for doing so. If the Guardian refuse to accept an ad, I don’t believe that is censorship in itself, but when the dwindling number of newspaper proprietors in this country conspire to arrange an effective blackout of ideas, that is quite clearly censorship.
And for something so relatively inconsequential as football, I can only assume that we have all stumbled on to something far more serious.
Given the recent media rhetoric about Russia Today and their forthright coverage of Chilcot and Tory Election Fraud, it seems that like so many of the players in this saga, the irony circuit in the collective press brain is now as devolved as a human tail.
There are dark forces at work in our country, and they are running riot with basic freedoms. However it is important to put the football issue into the proper perspective; if the media can go to these corrupt lengths for a game of football, what will they do to protect the capital interests of arms manufacturers, food producers and media dictatorships?
They may have lost the war, but through fix after fix at the SFA and the SPL, in the press and in the media, the authorities are winning the peace – basically by denying that any peace is possible until we all accept the notion that black is white, right is left, and wrong is right
Migrant fruit-pickers
© Scotsman
Back in soccer La-La-Land’s Mount Florida Fruit Factory, the football authorities most definitely lost the recent war. RFC went out of business and failed the fundamental task of any football club – to sustain itself. In allowing that to happen on their watch, the authorities failed in their most fundamental role – to keep RFC alive.
However through fix after fix, at the SFA and the SPL, in the press and in the media, they are winning the peace – basically by denying that any peace is possible until we all accept the notion that black is white, right is left, and wrong is right.
And still, even in this atmosphere, the major shareholders at all of our clubs sit and do nothing. Are they part of the problem, an integral part of the conspiracy? Or are they scared witless of the forces that may line up against them if they dare to grow a pair, like the Resolution 12 guys?
Sporting integrity has taken a back seat recently. Season ticket sales are up all over the place; Celtic provided a marquee manager; the red tops are ablaze about the ‘return’ of the Rangers; Hearts and Aberdeen are newly emerged from financial difficulty, and now enjoy the realistic prospect of new eras of success; and another competitive and exciting year beckons in the Championship.
In normal circumstances this would be fantastic news. But all of it is based on a Lie – the Lie that the game is run according to the rules, and for the benefit of all clubs. When the euphoria at Parkhead dies down; when TRFC are reinstalled (actually it will need to be with a shoehorn, but it will be done) as part of the old duopoly that sees the vital contribution made by the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen and others as insignificant; when the next major ‘bending’ of the regulations becomes necessary; all we will be left with is that Big Lie.
The clubs will eventually have to deal with that – and the complicit roles they played in ramming it down each and every one of our throats.
I hope we make them pay.
Another thing about the truth though is this;
Everyone with skin in this game, with the exception of the mentally deficient, know exactly what the truth is;
- RFC cheated;
- RFC evaded, avoided, and deliberately withheld payment of tax;
- RFC failed to register players properly over (at least) a decade;
- RFC lied to the SFA, the SPL and LNS;
- Whilst all the above was happening, RFC won over a dozen on-field prizes;
- The SFA rewrote the terms of LNS to better tailor their preferred outcome;
- RFC were punished by way of a £250k fine. No other penalties were suffered by RFC;
- RFC entered liquidation and a new club, which co-existed with RFC, began playing in competition BEFORE RFC’s SFA/SPL membership lapsed;
- That club (TRFC for differentiation purposes) just achieved promotion to the Premiership;
As long as we keep reminding everyone of those truths, as long as we continue to give them a voice, they won’t go away.
And what if, next time, it is Hearts or Aberdeen or Celtic, who make a desperate attempt to get an edge over their rivals (an emergent TRFC perhaps)?
The irony (and I exclude the TRFC fans who frequent this site) is that TRFC, despite having the weight of the football and press establishments behind them, are being done no favours at all.
The increasing pariah status of their club is a sad but inevitable consequence of the wrong-doing by the old club, because the fans (understandably to be fair) seek to side with their own partisan interests in the face of outside hostility.
But think of this. If the initial-ism ‘RFC’ above was replaced by the name of any other club in the country, wouldn’t TRFC fans be complaining as loudly as the rest of us?
And what if, next time, it is Hearts or Aberdeen or Celtic, who make a desperate attempt to get an edge over their rivals (an emergent TRFC perhaps)?
What if they run roughshod over the same rules that were broken before but remain unfixed? What if, as a consequence, a compliant TRFC are denied an opportunity to play in Europe, or compete in a final, or win a league?
Will we then still be ‘Rangers haters’ if we protest about that or merely Hearts or Dons or Celtic haters?
This is not about revenge – it never has been – and no amount of wishful thinking will make it so. For most of us on SFM, there is no RFC to have our revenge on anyway, so the accusation makes no sense.
What we are about, what we are all about, is weeding out the clucken wort in Scotland’s football garden on level six at Hampden.
And it appears that some extraordinarily powerful individual or group, with enough muscle to bend the fourth estate to their will, wants to keep us all away from that garden..
I can’t access the PM facility. Is it just me?
Jean,
Don’t know what the problem was or why it came about (yet), but the PM service should be fixed now.
Thanks Tris. I was becoming paranoid for a moment.
TRISIDIUMJULY 19, 2016 at 11:17
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Tris, you are way too sensible. It will never catch on.
A late, great Celtic hero of mine summed up differences in opinion perfectly. Tommy Burns said if others differ from him, it doesn’t mean they are wrong, it just means they are different. Generally we get that on this site. On the odd occasion we don’t, it is dealt with.
Tris
Over the last two pages we have had discussions over the standing area at Parkhead, the away side ticket allocation at TRFC v Celtic matches, and your own intervention over Motorred’s comments on “the Irish connection” at Parkhead. As you say it is in the eye of the beholder but keep in mind that you too are a beholder, a Celtic orientated one at that. Perhaps you should give those of us who are not aligned with the big two more credence as we see things without the fear of “giving up ground” in what is a pretty distorting rivalry. The early TU/TD’s would suggest that I have perhaps struck a chord for many on here.
This IS an important site, an unique site, but could easily be one that loses its neutrality, and hence worth, should those on here who don’t align with CFC drift away because it becomes “just another tic site”. It is the non CFC fans that legitimise this site and keep it from being dismissed completely as a “west of Scotland” gripe fest.
I am fully aware of how difficult it is to keep a balance but the work it takes is essential. If you doubt that just observe how the make-up of the contributers has changed on John Jame’s site since he gave his beliefs free rein.
I think one really has to look at the context as well as the content of a discussion.
For example how did the discussion about allocation of tickets to away support at Celtic Park start and who was interested in it. Was it entirely Celtic supporters discussing this, and to what end. I certainly replied to it, but only to point out that as far as I was aware Rangers would not be getting 25% or anything near it.
You also have to look at how things are worded. Celtic dropping the “irish stuff” if Rangers die has entirely different connotations to ““the Irish connection” at Parkhead”. Again I responded to it because I was at a loss to understand why it was being discussed and what it had to do with Rangers dying. The Celtic support celebrating the heritage of a lot of it’s fans is not about Rangers, or anyone else for that matter. As Tris pointed out, who complains about London Irish, or London Scots / Welsh.
If people think that Celtic support responding when Celtic are being discussed makes this look like a Celtic site it’s difficult to see what can be done about that. Short of people not bringing up specifically Celtic related issues. That might be the best idea.
ReiverJuly 19, 2016 at 16:37
____________________________________________________________
I appreciate your input greatly but I don’t agree with your observations re the neutrality of this site.
I have been visiting this site since it was set up and have always viewed it as a neutral, friendly, non abusive place.
I come on to read all you very erudite people, from various clubs, who can explain to me the machinations of what is really going on in this corrupt game of ours.
It has been very slow over the last few days, understandably, but only two pages of some self indulgence is, at times, to be expected and accepted.
People ask me why I follow this site and my answer is always the same, I get balanced, informative and polite information from folk from across the spectrum of varying allegiances.
I don’t think anyone needs to legitimise this place and hope it continues to offer the insight it does from all of its contributors.
Beyond pantomime
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-36833600?
I understand there is an argument raging over a site called “Siri” which says that “Rangers” are a four year old club.
I noticed this on the BBC Scotland news site, which gives the details, and adds
” rangers came through liquidation and relegation “.
The article is not attributed to any specific reporter, but I think the author should get in touch with BDO, and offer some assistance !
Big Pink,
Our posts regarding the BBC obviously crossed.
I’m glad you posted the link, as I am unable to do so from my Kindle.
As you say, it is beyond pantomime .
Homunculus
Nowhere in the ticket allocation discussion do I see it involving football governance. It is easy for any of us on any site to justify what we write by relying on our own backgrounds. The ones we see most, because of the numbers involved is the- TRFC fans singing offensive(to Celtic supporters) songs because they claim that the fans at Parkhead are showing support for a country that wishes to take control over part of the UK. The other cheek of the butt is the singing of “Irish” songs whose very origin is in the intent to have united Ireland. Now, I may have an opinion on that but I do not see a football stadium as th place to discuss it, even if it was done in a polite manner.
We live in a society where we refrain from using legitimate words not because we intend to use them to offend but because those that they describe feel offended. Songs at grounds should be no different.
But I go off subject. As I said to Tris attention needs to be paid to the response to my post and to his reply where it would appear I have reasonable support. This not from a strange subculture with weird ideas but from posters exactly like yourself so if you find yourself dismissing them then you need to stand back and have a calm look at your own position in this.
Jean
Yes, compared to most other sites you are correct and that is what my posts are attempting to maintain. As I said we need to guard against a drift away from neutrality and that is hard. A drift is what a number of us perceive. With the importance of Res 12 in all this there has ben a tendency to perceive it as a Celtic thing with a number of posters writing with a timbre that gave the impression that they hoped it would succeed so it would put another feather in their club’s cap. These same posters view the fight to be over because Res12 appears to have had an unsuccessful conclusion. That is despite the fact there are other actions ongoing where, in my opunion, success is more likely. That is where the feeling that we are on a Celtic orientated site comes from.
I read that without firstly paying attention to what site it was from, I was amazed to find it was the BBC News online and not a bears’ fan site. I would love to hear someone explain this:
“The question is a source of taunts from other clubs after Rangers came through liquidation and relegation.”
It is such an oxymoron that I won’t insult everyone’s intelligence by spelling out what is so very wrong with that sentence, and it’s not just the lie of ‘relegation’.
I do hope it was actually some reporter with a sense of humour who wrote it and is taking the micky out of the ‘same club’ dreamers, otherwise…oh dear, Auntie, what have you become?
Reiver
Firstly, the standing area discussion is relevant to us all.
Second, the ticket allocation discussion was not started by a Celtic fan,
and Tris’s intervention on the Irish thing was a joint mods decision to avert the very thing you feared. The original poster wasn’t just accusing (it appeared) Celtic fans of perfidy, but was having a pop at people of faith, Christians, Mulsims and others. We felt it needed a measured and temperate response. Nothing to do with Celtic – all about some courtesy and respect on the blog. Same as Res 12 is nothing to do with Rangers – they just happen to be a part of the process.
Perception is in the eye of the beholder, and I think that after a cursory glance, that first impression should by most objective standards be replaced by a rather different one.
As Tris said, nobody has accused anyone of anti-Irishness. That seemed to be the most serious of your charges, and yet it simply wasn’t true.
What has actually happened is that a couple of posters have expressed regret that another poster saw fit to equate their heritage to subversion. No hysteria, no accusation, real or implied.
I think a lot of the preconceptions I held before this journey began have been shattered – for the better I might add. The sadness that I (and Tris) feel, is that there may still be a few misconceptions around.
On the Res12 thing, I think you are so far off-base with your impressions that it’s hard to respond. Auldheid or others more associated with it might do so, but the idea that Celtic fans on here were looking at Res12 a way to gain credit for Celtic is foreign to me. I also think it is unwise to be led too much by TDs and TUs on here. Anyone can deliver one of them without logging in. In the main, I would take encouragement from what people say, not which gif they click on.
This wasn’t a Rangers blog when the mods stuck up for Ryan and other TRFC fans on here. It wasn’t a Hearts blog when they banned folk who threw sectarian insults at that club. It wasn’t a St.Johnstone or ICT or Hibs blog when we all expressed our joy at their cup successes. And it’s not a Celtic blog because the mods sought to defend Celtic fans from what seemed unfair accusations.
This is not to remonstrate with you, but I do hope you can look under the surface to see what is really going on – and have a bit of faith in what we have been trying to do here for the past four years. I think and hope the mods deserve that much.
REIVER
JULY 19, 2016 at 18:24 This not from a strange subculture with weird ideas but from posters exactly like yourself so if you find yourself dismissing them then you need to stand back and have a calm look at your own position in this.
=========================
Who did I say was a “strange subculture” and who did I dismiss. I don’t remember doing any such thing.
Getting back to your point with regards the whole “Celtic site” thing and the discussion on allocation of away tickets and the “irish stuff” discussion which followed it. That seemed to be the root of your point.
From what I remember it started with
“there is one issue that irk’s me and no doubt quite a few don’s, why is it the new club will be given about 25 % of the stadium[cetic park] yet the don’s only get a measly 2000 tickets. when in most instances they would take about 5000 for the game. celtic have always given the dead club special treatment and no doubt the love in for the new govan club will shine once again”
How does that make it a Celtic site, someone doing the same as you with your “The other cheek of the butt …” attitude. If anything it was someone having a pop at Celtic. That hardly makes this a “Celtic site”.
Forgot to mention; that article in the BBC, as usual, forgets to tell the reader what actually happened and how it might be that a club that went into liquidation can, somehow, come ‘through’ it! No one in the media ever even tries to explain that, and we all know the reason why!
Latest from he who must not be named lol.
https://johnjamessite.com/2016/07/19/the-barely-hanging-roofs-of-babylon/#comments
I hope the Iphone Siri wasn’t a windows programme, or they will be panned.
Imagine going Tonto because a computer won’t lie to you, or massage your fragile esteem. I’m lost for binary numbers.
I see problems ahead for the entire legal system, now that the BBC have “re-assigned” a new meaning to the word, “liquidation” Will the learned gentlemen of the courts now have to read out, “Following a period of administration, Blogs Bros Ltd are deid”?
The Siri response has seen fans exchanging banter online. One posted: “Siri might not say so, but FIFA and UEFA still say we’re the same club….”
they managed to print that one from all the twitter comments
Andy,
Yes, and they omit to mention UEFA`s letter to the Res12 guys, which contradicts that quote.
AllyjamboJuly 19, 2016 at 18:27
‘..oh dear, Auntie, what have you become?.’
_______
Not so much what Auntie’s become, Allyjambo, as further evidence of what a lying, propagandising cheer-leader for football cheatery she is ,and has been right from the first mention of the possibility that the cheating SDM was panicking at the prospect of a massive tax debt before when he was desperately trying to flog the now Liquidated RFC.
The individual who penned that crassly ill-informed report is no doubt getting paid for it. I wipe him from my shoe and my consciousness as I would wipe a disgusting piece of dog excrement from my highly polished shoe.
I wish I could have his seniors in BBC Scotland as easily removed from office for permitting such devilishly poor and biased reporting.
TrisidiumJuly 19, 2016 at 15:42
Adam
I think the backlash against Warburton has less to do with any antipathy towards the man himself and more directly concerned with the seer-like status which the MSM have afforded him.
——————
I think that that is an issue on this site, Tris.
Whenever the manager of Rangers offers his opinion on any subject (and he is allowed an opinion), when it is reported in the MSM the default position of posters on this site is to rubbish it. I guess it’s like a yin and yang.
I suspect he isn’t always right and I also suspect it isn’t always newsworthy, but because it is quoted in some form of media there seems to be a reluctance to accept that perhaps, occasionally, he might have a point.
As has been pointed out by previous posters if the manger of A N Other team had said the same thing (East Fife for example – my sincere apologies to East Fife fans, as it was the first team that came to mind) then it would never have been reported and there would have been no comments on this site in respect of it.
Over 30,000 Rangers fans have bought season tickets – that is not an insignificant number of football fans in Scotland.
The fact that only 1 or 2 ever choose to post may be viewed by some as a blessing.
For others it may be viewed as a concern.
Just my opinion, of course, I have no facts to back it up 🙂
I particularly like that Richard Wilson, sorry, the anonymous beeb writer was told to repeat the myth about surviving but still felt the need to add his own lie about relegation as well as if to somehow give the original myth some kudos.
Anyone would think there was a degree of insecurity there!
As my moniker and avatar should testify I am Scottish, I was born in Scotland.
My mother was Irish as were her parents and all other ancestors as far back as I can find.
My father was born in Scotland as were his parents but his grandparents were Irish as were all his ancestors as far back as I can find.
Some say that makes me an Irish Scot; I don’t mind the label, I’m quite proud of my Irishness, in fact very proud.
But I’m a Scot and member of the human race as are we all, every variety.
My children are English, but that’s another story
PL Glen @ 19.53
Tam Cowan referring to the grandising of any statement from Warburton (but for what it’s worth could just as easily be applied to Rodgers)
“…Warburton says there’s nothing to see here (and he says it on pages 6,7,12, 35,36,37 and 38 plus a pullout colour supplement)…”
SmugasJuly 19, 2016 at 20:01
——————–
That was my point.
Do you just completely ignore what he is saying (which seems to be nothing at great length, to be fair! – I haven’t read it) or do you read it, for what it’s worth, or simply just complain that the media always reports on Rangers?
It wasn’t so long ago that folks were saying that the Manager had obviously chucked in the towel because he hadn’t said anything – now he’s castigated for saying something. And still being the manager.
John ClarkJuly 19, 2016 at 19:51
AllyjamboJuly 19, 2016 at 18:27‘..oh dear, Auntie, what have you become?.’_______Not so much what Auntie’s become, Allyjambo, as further evidence of what a lying, propagandising cheer-leader for football cheatery she is ,and has been right from the first mention of the possibility that the cheating SDM was panicking at the prospect of a massive tax debt before when he was desperately trying to flog the now Liquidated RFC. The individual who penned that crassly ill-informed report is no doubt getting paid for it. I wipe him from my shoe and my consciousness as I would wipe a disgusting piece of dog excrement from my highly polished shoe. I wish I could have his seniors in BBC Scotland as easily removed from office for permitting such devilishly poor and biased reporting.
__________________–
While agreeing with everything you say, I was thinking more of the quality of the piece rather than any shift in their integrity
Even as a puff piece, with a lying agenda, it was very poorly constructed, and in a piece that was apparently trying to mock Siri, they only succeeded in mocking themselves, to such an extent that I was only partly joking when I suggested it might be something put together by some joker taking the micky out of those who will now be partying over it’s contents
When I first read it, I genuinely believed it was from a ‘Rangers’ website, and was quite taken aback to discover that it had been put together by someone from a ‘serious’ publication. Heaven help the government if that’s an example of what the BBC will be putting out in their future defence of the ‘establishment’
PLGLENJULY 19, 2016 at 20:06 3 0 Rate This
SmugasJuly 19, 2016 at 20:01——————–That was my point.
Do you just completely ignore what he is saying (which seems to be nothing at great length, to be fair! – I haven’t read it) or do you read it, for what it’s worth, or simply just complain that the media always reports on Rangers?
It wasn’t so long ago that folks were saying that the Manager had obviously chucked in the towel because he hadn’t said anything – now he’s castigated for saying something. And still being the manager.
—————
just my own opinion,but i liked it when he was saying nothing. Simply because fans could create their own opinions on matters regarding scottish football.Now the smsm have a goto guy for any matters to do with scottish football and beyond. When it’s a slow news day, who do you think they are going to call? here is a hint it’s not the ghostbusters.We are being force fed the ibrox managers thoughts on everything and anything.There are over 40 managers in scottish football, the smsm could have gave many of them interviews on anything. Now it is all about one managers opinion that makes headlines
PLGlenJuly 19, 2016 at 20:06
SmugasJuly 19, 2016 at 20:01——————–That was my point.
Do you just completely ignore what he is saying (which seems to be nothing at great length, to be fair! – I haven’t read it) or do you read it, for what it’s worth, or simply just complain that the media always reports on Rangers?
It wasn’t so long ago that folks were saying that the Manager had obviously chucked in the towel because he hadn’t said anything – now he’s castigated for saying something. And still being the manager.
________________________
And yet the SMSM steadfastly refuse to ask him why he was incommunicado for so long, or at least choose to accept his rather weak explanation, while attending so many Warbspeaks! I suppose it’s not his fault that the hacks don’t ask the awkward questions, though we can be pretty sure he knows what questions are not going to be asked. In the meantime, unless I have missed it, he has yet to congratulate Hibs and Alan Stubbs on their cup win, something that would have earned him some respect here, and elsewhere, and surely that would have been more worthwhile than his so obvious musings on loan deals, and something he doesn’t have to wait for a question, whether fed to the hacks by Level5, or not, before offering what many might consider obligatory, as he could volunteer it, anytime, at any PR drivel session.
At least he seems to have dropped his demands for ‘respect’ in recent times!
I have followed and supported this blog almost from it’s inception and have mostly stayed away from commenting on my emotional feelings on Scottish football as it no longer benefits from me directly in any financial sense, some may say this does not disenfranchise me and I agree to a point but it still hurts that I cannot do so. I see a post offering up the posters ancestry and many others defending their right to celebrate such. I was not born in this country, my parents were not born in this country and I have endured prejudice both religious and racist in nature although this has declined as society has matured.Sport and in our case football has always been about competing fairly against a like minded fellowship and to me this is the central purpose of the blog so oft espoused ,usually in a tempered manner, by our own John Clark. Contributions by Reiver of late have been outstanding as has the understanding of the core issues by Allyjambo. Motored has been and is a valued contributor and without wishing to appear patronising his life experiences may be slightly different to my own. I can accept his frustration with ‘plasticness’ , for heavens sake I imagine it is shared by a great deal of the demographic he aims his barb at but to deny somebody a celebration and love of their history is not the answer. One Scotland many cultures. This is one of the most tolerant and socially aware societies in the world and I am grateful to be allowed to enjoy living here.
On football: it is really annoying just now to see rumours of H and S issue at Ibrox. Either this stadium has been granted a certificate to hold events for the forseeable future or it has not. The accounts are late and again it is frustrating to have no idea of how/where the funding is coming from for the season ahead. I hope Glasgow city council and the SPFL have all their ducks in a row!
I have just read the Clumpany’s offering regarding the inexplicable story which recently appeared in the Daily Record about the old Rangers nearly signing Ronaldo many years ago. It is surely beyond doubt that IF such a move was really a goer, that it would have been financed by the then Bank of Scotland. Such stories always lead me to think about Rangers much lauded training facility. That too was financed by the then Bank of Scotland, to satisfy the demands of Dick Advocaat towards David Murray. When Rangers overdraft reached over £80m, David Murray very publicly reduced it by £50m, although it was eventually established he simply moved the £50m debt to another part of his group, and it was still owed to the then Bank of Scotland. As we now know for a fact David Murray’s group had hundreds of millions of debt written off. Therefore we are entitled to ask if the taxpayer has picked up the bill for Rangers training ground, among other things. I am sure there are countries in the world where the media may want to create a scandal about such things. I am sure there are countries in the world where politicians, both devolved and part of a wider union, may want to know why the taxpayer has been stung to such a level, and just who has benefited. Not in Scotland though. Not from anyone in the media, or from a single devolved or wider union politician. That really is incredible, but it is true!
SmugasJuly 19, 2016 at 20:01——————–That was my point. ————— just my own opinion,but i liked it when he was saying nothing. Simply because fans could create their own opinions on matters regarding scottish football.Now the smsm have a goto guy for any matters to do with scottish football and beyond. When it’s a slow news day, who do you think they are going to call? here is a hint it’s not the ghostbusters.We are being force fed the ibrox managers thoughts on everything and anything
—-
Fair enough.
So no manager in Scottish football should be allowed to voice their opinion, in order that fans can make their own mind up about things?
The only people being force fed anything are the people who choose to read it.
GUNNERBJULY 19, 2016 at 21:05 This is one of the most tolerant and socially aware societies in the world and I am grateful to be allowed to enjoy living here.
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I am glad you find it that way. Personally I don’t agree. I believe Scotland’s so called ‘tolerance’ is a manufactured fantasy by certain politicians who suppress any negative aspect that might detract them from their ultimate goal.
AllyjamboJuly 19, 2016 at 21:03
And yet the SMSM steadfastly refuse to ask him why he was incommunicado for so long, or at least choose to accept his rather weak explanation, while attending so many Warbspeaks,
————————
I have no idea why he didn’t say anything – he certainly should have – my son is a Hibbee and I congratulated him.
But your post, if you don’t mind me saying, is just another in a long line of posts of why a manager cannot express his opinion on anything because he either did or didn’t say something previously. My apologies if I have picked you up wrong.
The fact that the MSM seem to take their pick of what he says does not mean that everything he says is rubbish – as appears to be the default position on this website.
PLGlenJuly 19, 2016 at 21:29
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PL, I think the issue is that they don’t take their pick.
PLGLENJULY 19, 2016 at 21:29I have no idea why he didn’t say anything – he certainly should have – my son is a Hibbee and I congratulated him.
But your post, if you don’t mind me saying, is just another in a long line of posts of why a manager cannot express his opinion on anything because he either did or didn’t say something previously. My apologies if I have picked you up wrong.
The fact that the MSM seem to take their pick of what he says does not mean that everything he says is rubbish – as appears to be the default position on this website.
=======================
Of course everything Warburton says is not rubbish. To say so would be wrong, as he seems a very decent and intelligent man. The only question I have is what has he achieved in football for his opinion to be so respected?
GUNNERB
JULY 19, 2016 at 21:05
I can accept his frustration with ‘plasticness’ …
===========================
Is “plasticness” OK when it is in reference to people who wish to celebrate a certain heritage, but presumably would not be if it was applied to others. I won’t ask if the obvious alliterate comparison would be acceptable. Everyone hopefully knows it wouldn’t.
Or is the idea of “plasticness” OK whoever you are referring to, in your opinion.
PLGLENJULY 19, 2016 at 21:16
So no manager in Scottish football should be allowed to voice their opinion, in order that fans can make their own mind up about things?
It looks like the smsm only ask one manager his opinion on everything and anything,and his word is now treated as gospel.And the fans are told their minds are made up they don’t need an opinion.
I think one of the annoying things about the Warburton fascination by the media is that it smacks of the days of David Murray, his thoughts are much more frequently published than Murray’s were, but the way they are hung onto by the press seems very similar, lauded even!
We know now, of course, of the value of those Murray words, they were smoke to hide what was really going on, and about as honest as those of Dave King. Warburton’s words may not be hiding anything of his own personal interest, but they look, and smell, like smoke. Thinner smoke, perhaps, but wafted so often, the cumulative effect must be just as thick!
I wonder if some, a couple, perhaps, of the more popular players at Ibrox are maybe going out on loan to some foreign, or just English, clubs in the near future! Purely to enhance their Ibrox careers, of course!
Cluster OneJuly 19, 2016 at 21:42
PLGLENJULY 19, 2016 at 21:16 So no manager in Scottish football should be allowed to voice their opinion, in order that fans can make their own mind up about things? It looks like the smsm only ask one manager his opinion on everything and anything,and his word is now treated as gospel.And the fans are told their minds are made up they don’t need an opinion.
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And the opinions of fans of all but one club are mocked by the media should they dare try to express them, even when those opinions match the law of the land precisely!
AllyjamboJuly 19, 2016 at 12:04
‘…..I can almost guarantee, unless you’ve already read this article, you will never have heard his name, but his story is one we should all be aware of…’
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I am so grateful to you for that post and link, Aj.
And excessively relieved that Australia( eventually) recognised such a hero.
So, by previous posts, the issue appears to be that the MSM highlight the thoughts and opinions of one manager – I avoid newspapers, so I accept that that is the case. I’d hate to pick one up this week and read the thoughts of any other manager. It’s been 20 years since I did that, mind you.
I would hope that people will evaluate what managers actually say and not jump to the conclusion that what they are saying is only newsworthy simply because of the team they are involved with, rather than them actually having the occasional point.
That was my point.
AllyjamboJuly 19, 2016 at 21:50
And the opinions of fans of all but one club are mocked by the media should they dare try to express them, even when those opinions match the law of the land precisely!
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion – even managers of football clubs 🙂
PLGlenJuly 19, 2016 at 21:59
‘…. the issue appears to be that the MSM highlight the thoughts and opinions of one manager..’
________
With great respect, I think the issue is not the fact that Warburton has opinions. He is perfectly entitled to do what you and I do-express an opinion.
No, the issue is that unlike, say, the ‘great managers’ of the hugely successful teams, whose vast experience and general savvy underpins their success, Warburton is -as yet- a relative novice.
But somehow the SMSM seems to feel the need to treat him as if he were the equivalent of Jock Stein/Alex Ferguson/Arsene Wenger/ Tommy Wright/( and many other of our experienced SPFL managers) rolled into one!
The reality,of course, is that his achievements are modest.His opinions are often to do with some kind of special pleading. Or not terribly well founded on any kind of real experience of the game as played in Scotland.
And yet he is, it seems, no more given a hard time with hard questions than the SFA is, or SDM was!
Not his fault, of course, but the fault of the SMSM.
But because the SMSM has proved itself as being uninterested in truth and sporting Integrity but mad keen on propagating the Big Lie, poor Warbs, as the ( perhaps unwitting) embodiment of the new club’s lie, attracts the flak.
And I repeat what I have said before: I have no personal animus against Warburton, who, I am ready to believe, is just a blow-in from ‘dahn souff’ not tied to the apron strings of the new club of which he took his time before extending his rolling contract to continue as coach.
And I dismiss as utterly unworthy the thought that as a , what was it, City Trader?, he is of a stamp with, say, Messrs Whitehouse and Clark.
John ClarkJuly 19, 2016 at 22:57
PLGlenJuly 19, 2016 at 21:59 ‘…. the issue appears to be that the MSM highlight the thoughts and opinions of one manager..’ ________ With great respect, I think the issue is not the fact that Warburton has opinions. He is perfectly entitled to do what you and I do-express an opinion.
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I absolutely agree John.
My concern is that his opinion is being presented here as being more than that, just an opinion, therefore in need of rebuttal, simply because the MSM are presenting it. He gets asked questions, answers them, it’s reported in the MSM, then there seems to be a charge to dispute what his opinion is. It’s not his fault he is being quoted in the media.
My point is, I don’t read the newspapers in the morning (or afternoon, or pick them up on the bus/dentists waiting rooms/ etc, as seems to happen with so many that claim ever to buy them), I come on here and read that a Manager of a football club has said something and, without even having to read what he’s said, he’s either got some sort of superiority complex or he’s just talking garbage.
If the gripe is with what newspapers report on, then fair enough, but I tend to only see posts about what rubbish he’s talking simply because of who he is and simply because of who his utterances are being reported by.
HOMUNCULUSJULY 19, 2016 at 21:38 4 2 Rate This
GUNNERBJULY 19, 2016 at 21:05
I can accept his frustration with ‘plasticness’ …
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Is “plasticness” OK when it is in reference to people who wish to celebrate a certain heritage, but presumably would not be if it was applied to others. I won’t ask if the obvious alliterate comparison would be acceptable. Everyone hopefully knows it wouldn’t.
Or is the idea of “plasticness” OK whoever you are referring to, in your opinion
._____________________________________________________
Chauvinism in any form is unacceptable and foments anger and distrust . You point out the obvious parallel. My empathy is not exclusive and I believe others of a different persuasion would find common cause. I don’t think this is the forum to joust on such matters but thanks Homunculus for highlighting the error of my ways.
Just when you thought that the Ibrox saga could not get any more incredulous. What is the latest on the JJ story of the Glasgow City Council offering to spend ratepayers money on replacing three roofs and/or purchasing the stadium with a view to the construction of a purpose built stadium a few miles away. State aid for a football team???
There seems a requirement on here that explicit proof is required from me regarding my earlier comments. This typifies the mindset that implicit comments can be made by them but, unless we can prove the intent, then the rest of us have no right to draw out and comment on the implications that run through the thread.
I never analyse TU/TD and never use the feature but a trend can be indicative. This site claims to be open to all but, if the trend occurs through actions of TRFC supporters, this claim is not true. There are others who have defined the problems in Scottish football as not being because of one club and it is then that the “ownership” of the site really becomes apparent. The thread becomes defensive, we must be wrong as CFC can do no wrong. The list of self serving actions that do nothing for Scottish football is almost equally shared by CFC AND TRFC with the involvement of the SFA being the separating feature. It is this that I thought this site’s sole purpose was. A site that gave equal opportunity to supporters of ALL clubs, not just supporters who desist from voicing their observations regarding CFC. But it appears I was wrong.
I have spent time here in the hope that others would be prepared to join me in my actions to achieve a change in the governance of our sport and to return the integrity that it has so sadly, and increasingly, lacked over the past two decades. Alas, it would seem that site is occupied by, with the exception of those in the Res12 group, only [removed]. In the short time I have been on this site thousands of words have been written but the actions have been pitifully few.
I have posted every action I have taken and every response I have received not because I look for approval or praise but because I hope to let others see that an ordinary guy can act anonymously and hopefully make a difference. To make real difference though it requires a number of individuals to act but it seems there is not the appetite here. To gripe and moan is never enough. Never enough, that is, to have the right to claim to have been part of any success.
My actions started as a solo effort and now appears to be destined remain that way. I think that perhaps it is now time to remove myself from here and continue alone. I will, with the approval of BP and Tris, keep my username current in the hope that anyone who is prepared to join me and act can PM me and perhaps we can coordinate our actions.
In the meantime I shall return to my US holiday and hope that, by the time I return to the UK I shall have good news from SII or my MSP. If not, it is back to my phone calls and emails. So watch out Leeanne cos you are first on my list
In a valedictory epistle above, Reiver has posted some personal abuse of members, criticisms of the mods, and a wee sideswipe at SFM generally. As a consequence, the name-calling, and only that, has been removed.
My inference from the post is that in his opinion, we are all (with the exception of the Res12 folks) pathologically reluctant to campaign as vigorously as he, that the mods are apologists for Celtic, are unfair to fans of TRFC (?), and that the site is run on the basis that it gives equal opportunity only to supporters who desist from voicing their observations regarding CFC.
I am certain that my own (and several others’) long-standing criticisms of Celtic’s part in this saga has escaped him, but perhaps we are all guilty to a greater or lesser extent of cherry-picking content to fit our own personal narrative, so I wouldn’t be too critical of that.
I do not doubt Reiver’s genuine perception of pro-Celtic bias (although it would have helped had he attempted to articulate it as something other than his inferences), but it is still wrong – and making false statements and presenting them as fact is another thing altogether.
Reiver’s earlier claim that people on SFM were accusing others of being anti-Irish was reckless, inflammatory, totally untrue, and consciously or otherwise served only to side-track the blog. Had those accusations been made by anyone else we would have assumed a deliberate attempt by a troll to create division. I am disappointed that on reflection Reiver could not find it in him to correct that statement, despite having ample opportunity to do so.
Maybe it’s fatigue or something, but it has not been a good day for us. SFM is about all of us, and not just individual posters – however important their personal cause may be to them. I sense – although I cannot speak for him – that Reiver’s frustration in failing to build momentum for his own very laudable campaign has led to some disillusionment with SFM.
He has asked, now that he has announced his departure from SFM that we will still provide him with our PM facility, so that others can contact him and join him in his work. The mods are happy to do so and wish him well in building a team to carry out that work.
I don’t agree bp there was no name calling in my posts as such but they have been removed for no reason that I can fathom of course you could always explain the reasoning behind said removal rather than just removing posts.
It is very disappointing to come on here and read posts like Reiver’s, never like to see passionate people leave this place. There seems to have been a bit of frustration across the board in the last couple of days, misunderstandings and toys being flung out of prams. This is of course going to happen but really guys, we are all on the same side, for the most part, and are certainly stronger together than going it alone. Hopefully once the season kicks off or there is a new article out up we can all come back together and push forward again.
On the laughable BBC story, wow, just wow? I really don’t understand how such an esteemed broadcaster can get away with such blatant lies and falsehoods? Relegation is the one I usually laugh at the hardest, its so easy to disprove, but thats when talking to everyday fans, the constant pushing of this basic inaccuracy is the SMSM all over.
Mr Muirhead has done a FOI for the safety certificate for Ibrox, hopefully we hear something on that soon, but shouldn’t Hamilton Accies be making sure their fans will be safe attending the game? Any fans of HA on here have any idea if your club has contacted good ol’ DCK?
Mods, you do a great job so keep it up!
Take care
@ PLGLEN:
Mr. Warburton’s pressers often appear to be contradictory.
Earlier this week he spoke at length about (to paraphrase) broadening the horizons of young Scottish players by sending them to England/Europe on loan to improve. He appears to have very good connections/networks in England.
On the very same day, he loaned Tom Walsh (a 20 year old player who has been on the fringes of the first team since 2012) to St. Mirren. Walsh’s horizons have previously been broadened by loans at Dumbarton during Warburton’s tenure & Stenhousemuir.
According to Wikipedia, three Scottish-qualified TRFC players are on loan at Raith Rovers, Livvie & St. Mirren. A Canadian player is on loan in, yep, Canada.
He appears not to have been asked about the apparent disconnect. Any decent journalist (or even a rotten one!) should have pounced on the chance to pose a ‘But, Mark…’ question. They didn’t appear to do so.
Scared of losing access to the lovely quiche at Auchenhowie? Baffled by Warburton’s ‘loadings’ BS? Nope, just poor journalism allowing Warburton free rein to waffle.
At last someone in the media has answered a question. (I obviously discount the cut and paste formula replies from the BBC).
I am rather tired of the regurgitated vomit of sycophancy that passes for football journalism. The little boxes advising where to buy your season tickets for a certain team struck me as undeclared advertising and I wondered if cash or kind was exchanged.
The feedback editor of the Times replied at the second time of asking – which is good by the standards of the league she plays in. The answers does not remove my concerns bur it IS an answer and I thank her for it.
My translation is ‘This is not journalism and should not be judged as such: it is cosying up to the big boys.’
There is no breach of ethics in our football reporting, as you suggest. It is common practice for newspapers in Scotland to be invited to press conferences by, especially, the Scottish FA, Celtic and Rangers, with an understanding that the copy which results from the conference (which is never about the actual thing being promoted) will be followed by a reference to the ticket sales (or whatever is being promoted). This is quite clear in the references, eg, “Miller was promoting Rangers’ season-ticket sales. Over 37,000 have been sold and they are still available via http://www.rangers.co.uk, the Rangers ticket centre or by calling 0871 702 1972″This practice is by no means restricted to Rangers. Celtic, for example, made many of its players available at press conferences last season, which were specifically called in order to boost ticket sales before home fixtures.Yours sincerely,
XXX Feedback editor
FISIANIJULY 20, 2016 at 00:17
Just when you thought that the Ibrox saga could not get any more incredulous. What is the latest on the JJ story of the Glasgow City Council offering to spend ratepayers money on replacing three roofs and/or purchasing the stadium with a view to the construction of a purpose built stadium a few miles away. State aid for a football team???
==============================
It’s an interesting story, but we’ll need to wait and see. Overall there is nothing now that would shock me in terms of the authorities helping Rangers.
Both Ann Budge and Leanne Dempster voted onto the SPFL board……I can’t say I’m not pleased at that.
CORRUPT OFFICIALJULY 20, 2016 at 13:20
Both Ann Budge and Leanne Dempster voted onto the SPFL board……I can’t say I’m not pleased at that.
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Let’s wait and see if they end up part of the cabal.
UPTHEHOOPSJULY 20, 2016 at 13:39
Let’s wait and see if they end up part of the cabal.
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I think we can say that of any elected candidate in any sphere. Until they take office it’s impossible to tell if a haddy has been elected, but lets give them a chance.
ReiverJuly 20, 2016 at 00:40
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Sorry to see you go Reiver. Your energy and comittment will be missed.
I can understand why you may feel TSFM has a Celtic bias because any criticism of Celtic is pounced upon pretty quickly by certain posters and mimimised. I’ve had some experience of this in the past for raising some questions about Celtic’s comduct in the SFA debacle and the silence surrounding their role in previously stitching up Scottish football in collusion with old Rangers, not to mention they too operated an EBT scheme (admittedly only for one player and it was closed down pretty sharpish and HMRC were paid what was due)
However, I can understand the reaction from Celtic fans on here when they come to the defence of their club because that tit for tat mentality has been part of the “Old Firm” psyche as long as I can remember. Its hard not to get all defensive when that’s what the norm has been because you always feel you’re being challenged by “the establishment”.
The anti Irish stuff you mistakenly got involved in which led to your leaving was clear trolling by Motor Red. He was on some kind of wind up and from what I read of his posts it had a clear agenda that was a negative emotional reaction to Celtic having Irish heritage and not Scottish. It was silly talk really but obviously thinking like that still exists. For the record my great granparents were from NI and Eire. I’m proud that two people from across a divide were able to come together.
CORRUPT OFFICIALJULY 20, 2016 at 13:57 ——————————————————————– I think we can say that of any elected candidate in any sphere. Until they take office it’s impossible to tell if a haddy has been elected, but lets give them a chance.
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Of course they need to get a chance, but they would be the first in my lifetime who did not become part of the cabal. I’m sure the two ladies will soon realise what they have to do to survive.
JINGSO.JIMSIEJULY 20, 2016 at 09:46
@ PLGLEN:
I have no problem with Warburton having an opinion. Indeed his lack of experience in the game as a whole and in Scotland in particular allows him to see things with a fresh pair of eyes.
I think his heart is probably in the right place re player development. It seems to be a topic he is keen on.
The problem is however the apparent lack of scrutiny to what he says and the contradictions he throws up.
As I pointed out the other week he was bumping his gums about the lack of a proper pre-season before having to start the League Cup campaign.
However no-one thought to point out that if the tactical genius had won the Scottish cup he would be having to play Bronby tomorrow night in a second led Europa cup qualifier.
PLGLENJULY 19, 2016 at 21:29
AllyjamboJuly 19, 2016 at 21:03And yet the SMSM steadfastly refuse to ask him why he was incommunicado for so long, or at least choose to accept his rather weak explanation, while attending so many Warbspeaks,————————I have no idea why he didn’t say anything – he certainly should have – my son is a Hibbee and I congratulated him.
But your post, if you don’t mind me saying, is just another in a long line of posts of why a manager cannot express his opinion on anything because he either did or didn’t say something previously. My apologies if I have picked you up wrong.
The fact that the MSM seem to take their pick of what he says does not mean that everything he says is rubbish – as appears to be the default position on this website.
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At no point have I, or anyone else, said that a manager cannot express his opinion, but it is rather gaulling to constantly read the opinions of the same person, delivered in a way that suggests his opinion is of greater standing than those who’s opinions are seldom sought, especially when he more often than not expresses the obvious, as in the latest case. I’m sure you are aware that it would be better to send a young player out on loan to a club where he will learn more than to a smaller club with lesser facilities and less able coaches. On the other hand, it might have been considered informative and worth while if he’d bothered to explain why it might be that his players don’t find their way abroad/to England on loan.
It might also be worthwhile reading why, after being critical (in the most respectful way, of course) of Robbie Neilson making big changes to the Hearts squad after winning the Championship, he has done (well we must assume it was him) the very same with TRFC. That, along with so much more that could, and should, be asked of Warburton and TRFC, will never be asked by a media that only publishes what they are given, and not what proper journalists would seek to publish!
As it is part of this blog’s purpose to inspect and be critical of the Scottish media, it is also part of that purpose to be critical of those who use that media to get their message out. By being forever featured in the succulent press, Mark Warburton has become a major part of the TRFC PR machine, something that has been used to disguise much of what has been unsavoury at Ibrox since long before we’d even heard of Mark Warburton.
If you think it is wrong for us to only be critical of what he says, perhaps you might give us your take on his utterings rather than to just be critical of his critics.
James,
I admire your optimism. However the new board consists of the same people – with the exception of Ann Budge – who have looked on in silence over the last five years as a driverless tank slewed its way through the fabric of Scottish Football. Consequently, I won’t be putting the kettle on in expectation of any actual rules being followed.
I also don’t particularly relish the prospect of any anti-Sevco/TRFC bias either (although I am sure that came out wrong 🙂 ).
I would like to think that the board of the SPFL, and other power structures within the game, will do their best to allow ALL clubs to flourish and avoid pitfalls that may await them. As long as it is WITHIN THE RULES, and with due regard to the greater good of the game.
My admiration for Mrs Budge (despite her repeated refusal to answer our requests for an audience) aside, I don’t think that she will be able to set the course to a different destination from Bent Central.
As I say though – I do admire your optimism 🙂
Can I ask that you take the time to click an ad or three please?
Thanks folks – every little helps.
Quite interesting that Mr Warburton is making comments about the lack of travel to foreign climes by young Scottish players. His own Jason Holt was on loan at Sheffield United when he was unable to command a regular starting place in Robbie Nielsons Championship winning side. Jordan McGhee has taken the same approach this season.
MAGICROUNDABOUTJULY 20, 2016 at 21:38
Quite interesting that Mr Warburton is making comments about the lack of travel to foreign climes by young Scottish players. His own Jason Holt was on loan at Sheffield United when he was unable to command a regular starting place in Robbie Nielsons Championship winning side. Jordan McGhee has taken the same approach this season.
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I posted the other day that Warburton was “Talking cack” and linked a couple of Celtic players loaned out overseas.. Not through partisan reasons, but as a Celtic supporter, they readily sprung to mind without having to indulge in significant research.
Your additional input is appreciated.
I have some sympathy for those who do not support Celtic or Rangers.
Today I saw a story online that Neil Doncaster was bumping his gums again yesterday about Celtic and Rangers ‘bringing back the showbusiness’ to Scottish football. I’m sure fans of all clubs who increased their season ticket sales over the past four years will be delighted to know that. For me personally I see Celtic once again being lumped in with a club who refuse to play fair financially and get away with it, while Celtic play by the rules. We all know the rest of the history that no other Scottish club deserves to be lumped in with.
Mr Doncaster might as well have said he doesn’t mind how Rangers achieve success, as long as they achieve it. Poor, poor stuff.
UTH, Rangers are certainly a poorly run club on any number of levels but currently there are no financial rules, that I’m aware of, that have been broken. So I’m not sure what they are getting away with and what rules Celtic are following.
I’d like to see strict financial fair play but on the other hand there has been a recalibration of finances within the game since Rangers liquidation and exit from the top flight. There seems to be more financial reality in the game these days. Less so at Ibrox.
Until rules are in place to stop clubs making significant losses then it’s allowed to happen. Whether that’s fair or not.
incredibleadamsparkJuly 21, 2016 at 09:07
UTH, Rangers are certainly a poorly run club on any number of levels but currently there are no financial rules, that I’m aware of, that have been broken. So I’m not sure what they are getting away with and what rules Celtic are following.
I’d like to see strict financial fair play but on the other hand there has been a recalibration of finances within the game since Rangers liquidation and exit from the top flight. There seems to be more financial reality in the game these days. Less so at Ibrox.
Until rules are in place to stop clubs making significant losses then it’s allowed to happen. Whether that’s fair or not.
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Adam, I think the words I have highlighted are the most important in your post, for wherever a man like Dave King abides, there is scant chance of some financial rules not being broken, whether they be football rules or the laws of the land, he clearly has no respect for either! He even broke the AIM rules , or, at least, showed them no respect, and as a result, your ‘that I am aware of’ is of a major significance.
incredibleadamsparkJuly 21, 2016 at 09:07
“I’d like to see strict financial fair play but on the other hand there has been a recalibration of finances within the game since Rangers liquidation and exit from the top flight.”
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
I know that the vast majority of the SFM community are fully aware that there is no period after liquidation, but this sentence would certainly have benefited from one!
ALLYJAMBO, Dave King is a dodgy fellow no doubt, and Rangers have had a few of them. It’s great that you have Anne Budge in charge now but as a Hearts fan you’ll also have experience of people that ideally would get nowhere near Scottish football.
How does that happen? Lack of rules in place to protect the clubs. These people are always worth keeping an eye on.
INCREDIBLEADAMSPARK
Dave King is a dodgy fellow no doubt, and Rangers have had a few of them. It’s great that you have Anne Budge in charge now but as a Hearts fan you’ll also have experience of people that ideally would get nowhere near Scottish football.
How does that happen? Lack of rules in place to protect the clubs. These people are always worth keeping an eye on.
Too true and a lot of people willing to look the other way so as not to rock the boat.
incredibleadamsparkJuly 21, 2016 at 09:56
ALLYJAMBO, Dave King is a dodgy fellow no doubt, and Rangers have had a few of them. It’s great that you have Anne Budge in charge now but as a Hearts fan you’ll also have experience of people that ideally would get nowhere near Scottish football.
How does that happen? Lack of rules in place to protect the clubs. These people are always worth keeping an eye on.
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I don’t blame the SFA for passing Romanov as fit and proper, George Foulkes had apparently used his government connections to check him out? and, without a criminal record, it’s pretty hard for an organisation like the SFA to get a better clearance than that!!
On the other hand, when someone has a very public criminal record, it should be easy for the SFA to judge his fit and proper status, but they then have to decide whether to stick by the spirit of their own rules, or allow a criminal to hold power via a holding company in a way that means the holding company chairman is, in fact, the ‘conscience’ of the club itself.
I think it is reasonable to assume that Hearts are in honest hands, as it is with another 40 clubs in the SPFL, but there is still one where that assumption might be classed as dangerous, and indeed, downright stupid.
ALLYJAMBO, I suppose it’s a tricky one to get right. Fit and proper person tests in addition to strict financial fair play rules would possibly help the situation, although I’m sure the political influence of George Foulkes was appreciated at the time.
Hearts certainly are in honest hands now. But back then with Romanovs millions, wherever they came from and subsequently went to, Hearts were able to buy players they otherwise couldn’t afford and as financially unfair as this may seem no rules were broken because none existed.
On this scenario the parallels with David Murray and Rangers are striking. Would that make Murray the Romanov of Rangers? It has a certain alliterative quality to it but I digress. We now know where Murray got ‘his’ money from and what a scandal it is. Perhaps similar discussions are taking place on football websites in Lithuania or Russia, who knows?
Murray was a disaster for the club, and Scottish football, but there was no reason to refuse him ownership either. The side letters and EBTs were the rotten cherry on a rancid cake.
One club managed to survive the largesse of its owner, the other did not. Silver lining at Hearts is greater fan involvement and Ann Budge. Dave King is now in charge of the new club and I don’t necessarily make him the conscience of it, although I know what you’re saying. I’d rather he wasn’t anywhere near it but the rules allow it. The rules need changing.
As I understand it Dave King sits on the board of Rangers International PLC, the holding company. He also holds about 16% of the shares in that PLC.
He does not sit on the board of The Rangers Football Club Ltd. He never has sat on that board.
He basically sits on the board of a PLC which owns shares in a company which trades as a football club. On that basis does he actually have to pass any “fit and proper” test. Has anyone ever seen anything to suggest he was put to that test and passed it.
There is an assumption that he has been passed as “fit and proper”, it is equally likely that it has never actually been an issue.
Happy to be corrected.
“Dave King is now in charge of the new club …”, with a 16% shareholding in the PLC and no seat on the board of the Ltd Co that is quite a claim. It would suggest a concert party arrangement for the PLC and a shadow director arrangement for the Ltd Co.
HOMUNCULUS, That’s interesting information. The legalities of such arrangements are above my head but I’m still happy to say he is calling the shots at Ibrox and therefore ‘in charge’ of things. A Symantec argument on my part but I’d guess many on SFM might think the same.