Now that we are at the end of the league season, and with respect to the job still to be done at Tannadice and McDiarmid Park, it seems like a good time for a post holocaust report.
Fig 1 Average Weekly Attendances SPL 2011-2014
Peppered around this page are three charts and a table* showing the attendance figures for the SPL in the last three seasons. A school kid could tell you that there is a positive trend in those charts and figures, but the people who run our national sport will look you straight in the eye and tell you “that can’t be right – Armageddon is coming!”
It is one of the most ridiculous and mendacious situations I have ever come across. The people who run our national game, aided and abetted by those in the MSM (sans the eye contact though) are actually trying to persuade us of how awful our game is and how unsustainable it will be in the absence of one, just one, club.
Think about that. The SFA and the SPFL trying to talk us out of supporting the game unless we all recognise the unique importance of one, just one, club. That is what has happened, no matter how they try to spin it. And despite evidence to the contrary contained in these figures, not one of them has admitted to an error, never mind the downright lies that they told to support the position they held, the one where anyone speaking of sporting integrity was mocked and ridiculed.
Whilst growing up as football supporter in the 60s, one of things I was constantly bombarded with via the medium of the tabloid newspapers was that football clubs should be grateful for the publicity afforded them via their back pages. These were probably reasonable claims, especially in the light of the relative lack of access to players and officials conceded to the hacks in those days, and the pre-eminent cultural position in which they helped to place football. Alongside that, the broadcast media, particularly Archie Macpherson’s Sportscene and Arthur Montford’s Scotsport could be relied on to talk the game up. Of course, there was something in it for the papers – sales. The more column inches devoted to the national sport, the further northward their sales, and consequently advertising revenues travelled.
Fig 2 Avg. Attendances excl Celtic & Rangers
The situation was further cemented by the fact that the press in that ante-interweb era held a monopoly over the exchange and dissemination of information. That symbiotic, win-win relationship between football and the press was as much a part of football reality as the Hampden Roar. It also endured for decades. The press would talk up the game to such an extent that folk often remarked that they hadn’t realised how much they had enjoyed a particular match until they had read Malky Munro or Hughie Taylor’s report the next day. Archie Macpherson is on record as having said the same thing about legendary commentator David Francey, “It was a much better game to listen to than to see!”
Today that symbiosis is broken. The press themselves, in print and in front of microphones consistently belittle the product, talk of crises and Armageddon, of our own version of the Eisenhower domino effect of clubs going to the wall one after another.
Aided and abetted by the two chief bureaucrats in charge of Scottish football, Stuart Regan and Neil Doncaster, who have consistently helped to hammer home the message that Scottish football is not good enough, and cannot sustain itself financially without Rangers, a club that could not itself sustain itself financially to the extent that it is being liquidated.
At a time when Scottish football was clearly in crisis, and badly in need of sponsorship which could mitigate the effects of that crisis, the press and the authorities sought to strengthen their own negotiating hand by making negative claims about the state of the game which never came to pass, and for which they have never apologised. The actual situation, which would not have been hard to predict had anyone actually bothered to analyse the business of Scottish football, is summarised quite easily by saying this;
- Since Rangers’ liquidation and subsequent absence from the top league, the average home attendance of the other clubs has INCREASED overall (See Fig 2).
- In this season, the other clubs have added 50,000 fans to home attendances compared to 2011-12 (the last year Rangers were in competition).
- In that time the league has been won (twice) by Celtic, and the other honours have been claimed by St, Mirren, Aberdeen, Celtic and (either) Dundee United or St Johnstone.
- In that time, both Dunfermline Athletic and Hearts (who both had historical financial problems) entered – and exited – administration after fan-led buyouts.
- Dundee United have cleared off their bank debt.
- Kilmarnock have restructured their bank debt, freeing the club from a precarious long-term situation.
- League reconstruction has allowed some money to trickle down to the second tier clubs in an attempt to mitigate the immediate effects of relegation and to reward ambitious clubs.
Looking at the table of attendances above, it is pretty clear that immediately upon Rangers exit, the overall figures took a dip. However there was little difference the in the figures if you leave Rangers out of the equation (Fig 3) – despite Celtic’s attendance taking a hit that year (down by around 5,000 per home match).
Taking Celtic out of the calculations, it is clear that there is a 6,000 uplift in this average (Fig 2).
It is still undeniable that less people overall are watching football (Fig 1), but the trend is upward if one leaves the Ibrox club out of the picture.
Furthermore, this statistic exposes the double edged sword that is retention of home gates. The fact that gates are not shared is predicated upon the notion that the bigger clubs do not depend on the smaller clubs for income. And since the smaller clubs are no longer recipients of big club largesse, their fortunes are not affected, at least not as much as was suggested by the Regans, Doncasters and Traynors of this parish. The “Trickle-Down” theory of Reganomics said otherwise – but clearly and demonstrably it was wrong.
The abandonment of gate sharing has made Scottish football less interdependent than it once was, but the irony is that it works both ways. There is hardly a club in the country that depends on Rangers for their own existence, and here is the news; small clubs are no longer financially dependent on the former Old Firm.
Fig 3 Excluding Celtic
The fact, that is F-A-C-T, is that Scottish Football attendances in the top division are on the increase. The absence of Rangers has made no appreciably negative difference to any other club, far less caused a catastrophe of biblical proportions.
Even if the fools who were the harbingers of our doom were simply guilty of making an honest mistake, it is clear that they are uncontaminated with the slightest notion of how the game in this country operates. The Old Firm may be dead, but the OF prism is still being peered through by Stuart Regan, Neil Doncaster and the vast majority of print journalists. The latter who failed to honour that age-old football/press symbiosis because they believed, erroneously that David Murray’s dinner table was the hand that has fed them for over a century.
The irony is that as job opportunities diminish in the print sector, so too will the fine dining and patronage. I think they call that evolution.
Two years ago, in the wake of the fans’ season ticket revolt which saw the new Rangers forced to apply for membership of the league and begin at the bottom, those same MSM hacks taunted fans about putting their money where their mouths were. The fans responded splendidly as our statistics demonstrate, but typically there has been no recognition of this either at Hampden or in the media.
And the message from those fans is this: Scottish football is not dying. Not any more. At least not as surely as it was when David Murray started to choke the life out of it in the late 80s. The supporters are returning in numbers to see a competition untainted by the outrageous liberty-taking and rule-breaking of the last couple of decades, and all but one club has emerged from the mire of the Moonbeam Millennium looking forward to a new era.
If authorities allow the new era to thrive by restoring sporting integrity to the agenda, then the numbers, like the opportunities available to more and more clubs, will grow. The question is … will they?
Admittedly, these figures, like any set of statistics, can be cherry-picked to suit almost any argument that you care to construct. The fact remains though, that whilst it would be fanciful and ridiculously over-optimistic to claim that they bear witness to a burgeoning industry, it is utterly dishonest to conclude that they represent financial Armageddon. Armageddon? Aye right!
James Doleman says:
May 19, 2014 at 8:46 pm
The board have been busy
=======================
yes indeed ❗ But these are difficult times and it looks as though they are following an auld well-travelled route to raise money down Ibrox Way. I look forward to seeing Wallace in the regulation top.
Of course the VB have recently purchased £25K of shares so it will be interesting to see if they take-up their rights’ issue or just end-up diluted – a bit like pouring additional water into an orange juice.
I would say this shows real desperation and I hope the Board have been careful about what promises they have made or are thought by some to have made 🙄
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/the-latest-from-charles-green-buy-a-season-ticket-and-get-to-vote-for-the-new-name-for-murray-park Back in 2012 Charles Green knew how to sell season tickets with the above scheme. He may not have been a “Rangers Man ” but he was either a very fast learner or had good PR advice. Charles we salute you . 😆 It is amazing how much of a resource Random Thoughts continues to be .RIP Paul.
RyanGosling says:
May 19, 2014 at 8:43 pm
While not doubting or questioning the figures at all, can anyone explain in detail how on earth a training facility in Glasgow can possibly cost upwards of £1m a month to run?! By the beard of Zeus!
======================================
Well I suppose it all depends on what is charged against it. Who knows? Could all the coaching staff wages + Ally’s be put against it with all the physio/medical/ and numerous other specialist employees let alone the those in not so exalted a position.
@ RyanGosling
I just wondered after posting that whether there is a legal out for contracts by being able to dismiss some employees on the basis that the company is facing financial meltdown. So even though it was technically unfair dismissal the contract terms didn’t apply with just statutory minimum State redundo payable.
I am sure that this can happen if it means the survival of the business and the rest of the jobs but that could run into a problem of how you replace them – possibly by hiring/creating player coaches.
Maybe Mather will come back to operate Murray Park as a private venture with a heavily discounted deal for Rangers. We just can never be sure because spivs are very very inventive 😆
PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
May 19, 2014 at 7:56 pm
ecobhoy says:
May 19, 2014 at 12:33 pm
———————————————————
The author of any book is the last person to have a valid opinion on the value of the work.
However, here is the only professional review of Downfall from the SMSM:
http://www.scottishreviewofbooks.org/index.php/back-issues/volume-8-2012/volume-eight-issue-four/522-what-s-the-score-kevin-mckenna
========================
I’ve read it before and it’s enought to say that Big Kevin is one of the few members of the SMSM I have ever had any time for ❗
ecobhoy says:
May 19, 2014 at 9:23 pm
There is ruinous duplication of functions between Ibrox and Murray Park.
RyanGosling says:
May 19, 2014 at 8:43 pm
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1
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While not doubting or questioning the figures at all, can anyone explain in detail how on earth a training facility in Glasgow can possibly cost upwards of £1m a month to run?! By the beard of Zeus!
__________________________________________________
I suppose if you can spend £67m winning 2 ‘part time’ league championships, anything is possible.
The whole Ibrox debacle clearly defies any sanity or logic – unless – and its a slim chance I know – maybe Mr McCoist had a rich relative who has died and there is a $300m inheritance in the offing?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088850/
RyanGosling says:
May 19, 2014 at 8:43 pm
………………………
Council tax, groundsmen & equipment, electricity, security, telecommunications & broadband, gas heating, hot water showers every day for 100, soap n shampoo, restaurant free breakfast, lunch, dinner, food supplies, chefs and restaurant staff, maintenance, painting and decorating, sports equipment, administration staff, medical staff, physio/ rehab staff, computers, software licenses, Satellite TVs, management staff, coaching staff, printing, stationery, hire equipment, laundry, cleaners…Ally’s pies…it soon adds up..
Although 1 million a month does seem steep…
Well
If all the players who aren`t in this first team squad report to MP,train at MP, eat at MP, and play at MP
Then
All costs associated with them should be charged to MP
ecobhoy….
I just wondered after posting that whether there is a legal out for contracts by being able to dismiss some employees on the basis that the company is facing financial meltdown. So even though it was technically unfair dismissal the contract terms didn’t apply with just statutory minimum State redundo payable.
I am sure that this can happen if it means the survival of the business and the rest of the jobs but that could run into a problem of how you replace them – possibly by hiring/creating player coaches.
……………………………………………….
Well…. The Directors could pay themselves off. Didn’t this happen (legally)with the erstwhile Rover spivs who drove their business vehicle into brick wall? Departing with airbags full of dosh?
But contracted employees, such as quality manager could not be let go cheaply. That is what the CONTRACT bit is all about. You don’t avoid paying with wheezes about “technical unfairness”.
Once the brick wall, the Admin happens, then it changes. Statutory provision will then step in to furnish a minimal parachute.
Well… in NORMAL administrations you might expect that to be the case… 😐
Echobhoy at 9:13 pm
I look forward to seeing Wallace in the regulation top.
…………………………………………………..
I look forward to seeing Wallace in the relegation top.
197 likes on my last post. And not one comment. Can I claim a world record?
Donegaltim says:
May 19, 2014 at 2:40 pm
———————————————————
For the avoidance of doubt my sums come from within the place.
===================================================
Phil, I never doubted it for one minute. If it came across like that, not my intentions
Can any legal bods, (Cm ?) answer this one please ?
So, I am a TRFC fan still dithering over whether to buy a ST or not.
In the absence of any public statements coming from the SFA I decide to buy.
But to hedge my bets I send an email to the SFA/Regan, and I also send a letter by registered post to the SFA/Regan. [Proof of transmission/receipt, as the SFA rarely respond to their customers.]
My email/letter contains my details and states that as TRFC have been/will be issued with a license to play next season I am taking that as implicit proof that the SFA has satisfied itself that TRFC is able to fulfill its fixtures next season.
And this would be despite the negative comments from the TRFC/RIFC boards and from their external auditors about the financial health of the football club.
I would also state that if TRFC fails during the season I will be seeking recompense from the SFA at the Small Claims Court, [e.g. for the unused portion/games on the ST].
I would claim that the SFA has been negligent when issuing the football license.
Is this feasible ?
Rumours abound tonight that DK has walked away, anyone confirm?
iamacant says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:39 am
Rumours abound tonight that DK has walked away, anyone confirm?
==================================================
Not seen anything so far.
But it’s fair to say that if DK has done ‘Woking away’, he would quickly issue his obligatory, lengthy, pointless, rambling statement – blaming everyone but himself – and to squeeze out his last 5 minutes of media exposure from his association to this shambles of a club.
StevieBC says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:52 am
Search and ye shall find, plenty resources but as said, purely rumour. PR remarks or DK remarks is debateable
If DK has walked have the Bears been delivered all nicely trussed up like turkeys ready for carving by the spivs?
Has the Messiah turned out to be a very naughty boy indeed?
All this and more in the next edition of “Soap”…. 😛
Scottish Football needs, for once, a strong SFA approach to RIFC/TRFC to protect other clubs and their fans from another implosion.
redlichtie says:
May 20, 2014 at 5:22 am
Scottish Football needs, for once, a strong SFA approach to RIFC/TRFC to protect other clubs and their fans from another implosion.
=======================================
It is clear they fear the implosion from the Ibrox support more than they wish to protect every other club from the implosion of the Ibrox club hitting the skids.
StevieBC – no its not feasible.
StevieBC says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:28 am
Can any legal bods, (Cm ?) answer this one please ?
So, I am a TRFC fan still dithering over whether to buy a ST or not.
In the absence of any public statements coming from the SFA I decide to buy.
But to hedge my bets I send an email to the SFA/Regan, and I also send a letter by registered post to the SFA/Regan. [Proof of transmission/receipt, as the SFA rarely respond to their customers.]
My email/letter contains my details and states that as TRFC have been/will be issued with a license to play next season I am taking that as implicit proof that the SFA has satisfied itself that TRFC is able to fulfill its fixtures next season.
And this would be despite the negative comments from the TRFC/RIFC boards and from their external auditors about the financial health of the football club.
I would also state that if TRFC fails during the season I will be seeking recompense from the SFA at the Small Claims Court, [e.g. for the unused portion/games on the ST].
I would claim that the SFA has been negligent when issuing the football license.
Is this feasible ?
========================================================
Campbellsmoney says:
May 20, 2014 at 8:39 am
StevieBC – no its not feasible.
=========================================================
Almost certainly not legally enforceable but may be an interesting tactic for organised Rangers fans groups to put pressure on the SFA, particularly its President who is known to have a special place in his heart for Rangers. Surely he would rally to the cause?
StevieBC says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:28 am
Can any legal bods, (Cm ?) answer this one please ?
So, I am a TRFC fan still dithering over whether to buy a ST or not.
In the absence of any public statements coming from the SFA I decide to buy.
But to hedge my bets I send an email to the SFA/Regan, and I also send a letter by registered post to the SFA/Regan. [Proof of transmission/receipt, as the SFA rarely respond to their customers.]
My email/letter contains my details and states that as TRFC have been/will be issued with a license to play next season I am taking that as implicit proof that the SFA has satisfied itself that TRFC is able to fulfill its fixtures next season.
And this would be despite the negative comments from the TRFC/RIFC boards and from their external auditors about the financial health of the football club.
I would also state that if TRFC fails during the season I will be seeking recompense from the SFA at the Small Claims Court, [e.g. for the unused portion/games on the ST].
I would claim that the SFA has been negligent when issuing the football license.
Is this feasible ?
============================
I’m neither CM nor a legal bod but hey why let that stop me 😆
I also haven’t even referred to the SFA Rules book for any guidance on the matter as we have all learnt that nothing they say should be taken at face value because the SFA can change, ignore, interpret and create rules as it goes along to suit its often obvious agenda.
So where do we go from there? I think the first problem you would have in establishing liability is that you had already bought the ST before approaching the SFA despite being well aware of the financial position of the club and clear warnings from its management and indeed directors its finances were in a fragile state and there was a risk to it being unable to trade if fans didn’t buy STs.
At the end of the day your contract is with Rangers and not the SFA who would plead in defence that when they issued the licence that the required criteria had been met and signed-off by qualified professionals employed by Rangers which they are entitled to rely on. I am sure that Bryson would be wheeled into court to state that in his opinion that as there was no impediment under SFA Rules to the licence being granted when it was granted then it remained in force no matter what then took place.
However there might well be a slim chance of claim against the SFA if it could be proven they had been negligent in issuing the licence or hadn’t followed their own rule book in doing so. But I really ain’t sure that would fly. In any case it wouldn’t be heard in a small claim action and could possibly end-up in the Court of Session which is a very expensive process.
And, of course, the SFA could always use the evidence of the judge in the Imran commission case that there wasn’t sufficient evidence to point to the club going bust.
The bottom line is that – going back to Bryson – the SFA can’t guard against unexpected financial or other non-financial ctastrophic events which can prevent a club from fulfilling its fixtures. So as long as it’s impossible to prove negligence by the organisation at the time of granting the licence there is no case to answer IMO and on a totally practical level no chance of bringing a case to court unless it was a ‘class action’ type of things with hundreds of fans involved able to raise the finance to pay for it.
But is that really likely if their club has collapsed yet again – the wise ones with any cash would be concentrating on how to build a new club controlled and owned by fans and not spivs I would hope.
Vanguard Bears own site says their members have been described by another Blue blogger “as bullies, hooligans, terrorist sympathisers, bigots and self proclaimed Uber-fans”. Nice to see the board are choosing their friends wisly…
I made a point the other day that I didn’t believe the impression being created that Wallace the Rangers chief exec had held a similar position at Man City. I’ve just checked it this morning and he didn’t but was Chief Operating Officer. That role usually consists of running the day to day operations of an organisation and reporting directly to the chief exec.
So it’s important but nowhere near as important or pressured as being chief exec who is the person in the hot seat putting his/her head on the block on all the important decisions.
Wallace in action IMO appears unable to exercise any real control at Ibrox probably from a mixture of the job being too big for him and his lack of clout to bang the heads together of the competing boardroom factions.
However he reminds me of a military report card which stated: ‘An able Lieutenant who’ll never make Captain’.
Sadly, in a military context, often able lieutenants are unavoidably promoted Captain in times of conflict and although some manage to rise to the responsibility and handle the pressure many more don’t and the results can be catastrophic for all and sundry.
We are told (from numerous sources) that the take up of season books at Ibrox has been underwhelming.
Any news on how the Dave King method is faring? How will this work?
As an aside, I have binned my 2 season books at Celtic Park in favour of ‘pay on the day’. This is my (futile) one man protest to get games back to 3 o’ clock on a Saturday.
I’ve missed about 4-5 games again this season due to KO changes to suit everyone, except me. That’s a 20% of my season book games I cannot attend.
The club has pandered to TV (I’m aware it’s not easy for them) but I’d be stupid to continue to throw money away. I’ll still be a regular but at games of my chosing from here on.
Here is the “postcard protest” idea from Sons of Struth-
Are these guys losing the plot? Or maybe they’ve lost Dave King, which would really put them in a spot.
Many thanks to CastOfThousands for the tutorial on blockquotes, by the way!
And here is the Sons of Struth petition, launched on change.org-
=====
Petitioning Graham Wallace
Give written legally binding assurances to fans that Ibrox stadium will not be sold or used as security for any loans
Sons of Struth
Petition by
Sons of Struth
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Ibrox stadium has been the home of our club for over 100 years and due to mistrust of the board of directors, many fans are unhappy that no legally binding assurances have been forthcoming from the board and a recent club statement declared that the board are unwilling to provide such assurances.
The board agree that the stadium is sacrosanct and state they will not sell or use as security. The word of the board can not and will not be accepted by many fans due to a number of recent statements that have since proven innacurate and untrue. Fans also wish to be protected if the current board should be replaced in the future.
They have also declared they wish to build trust with the fan base and this action would go some way in improving any relationship
To:
Graham Wallace, Rangers Football Club
Sandy Easdale, Rangers Football Club
Give written legally binding assurances to fans that Ibrox stadium will not be sold or used as security for any loans
Sincerely,
[Your name]
=====
What is striking about this is the omission of Murray Park. Have they given up on that?
“muted” 🙄
“there” 🙄
From the people who brought you “legned”.
Will they never learn (to spell)?
Answers on a postcard.
Strewth
Campbellsmoney says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:27 am
2 0 Rate This
“muted” 🙄
“there” 🙄
From the people who brought you “legned”.
Will they never learn (to spell)?
==========================
The “muted” one is right up there with my pet hate, when people say “without further adieu”.
Also, the muted one is not just about spelling, isn’t it meant to be moot-ed ? Completely different !!!
😉
FFS.
Sons of Strewth (I’m an aussie)
Petitioning Philip Clarke (CEO of Tesco)
Give written legally binding assurances to customers of TESCO that the motherwell store will not be sold or used as security for any loans
Sons of Struth
Petition by
Sons of Struth
Glasgow, United Kingdom
TESCO Motherwell has been where I’ve bought my rich tea biscuits for over 10 years and due to mistrust of the board of directors, many customers are unhappy that no legally binding assurances have been forthcoming from the board and a recent club statement declared that the board are unwilling to provide such assurances.
The board agree that the store is currently profitable and state they will not sell or use as security. The word of the board can not and will not be accepted by many customers due to a number of recent statements that have since proven inaccurate and untrue. Customers also wish to be protected if the current board should be replaced in the future.
They have also declared they wish to build trust with the customer base and this action would go some way in improving any relationship
=========
Get the message….you are nothing but CUSTOMERS. Non-paying ones at that !
neepheid says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:23 am
2 0 Rate This
And here is the Sons of Struth petition, launched on change.org-
=====
Petitioning Graham Wallace
Give written legally binding assurances to fans that Ibrox stadium will not be sold or used as security for any loans
Sons of Struth
Petition by
Sons of Struth
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Ibrox stadium has been the home of our club for over 100 years and due to mistrust of the board of directors, many fans are unhappy that no legally binding assurances have been forthcoming from the board and a recent club statement declared that the board are unwilling to provide such assurances.
The board agree that the stadium is sacrosanct and state they will not sell or use as security. The word of the board can not and will not be accepted by many fans due to a number of recent statements that have since proven innacurate and untrue. Fans also wish to be protected if the current board should be replaced in the future.
They have also declared they wish to build trust with the fan base and this action would go some way in improving any relationship
To:
Graham Wallace, Rangers Football Club
Sandy Easdale, Rangers Football Club
Give written legally binding assurances to fans that Ibrox stadium will not be sold or used as security for any loans
Sincerely,
[Your name]
——————-
In business terms , the above is lamentable, however it does show that the heart is willing but the brain is not up to the task. At one level , it really is quite sad.
If Dave King is the answer what is the question?
Would the Rangers faithful countenance playing at another ground if the alternative was no Rangers? If you view Ibrox as a football ground then it should not matter, conversely, if you view it as the largest stadia in the UK for a quasi-religious gathering then moving elsewhere may present some issues.
A lack of leadership will in my view ultimately kill Rangers again , current situation if you wish to be really cruel is muppets lead by crooks. I believe all this chat about funding Rangers for another £8M to £10M , unless it is a gift, will never happen and all the plans will be talked out as the cash runs out.
I also suspect that the SFA , Regan and CO have been warmed up to a Rangers playing at another ground next season and this will be sorted out before the fixtures are announced for next season.
ecobhoy says:
May 20, 2014 at 9:42 am
‘..However he reminds me of a military report card which stated: ‘An able Lieutenant who’ll never make Captain’.’
———-
Or, one of my Civil Service favourites, ” ..Mr [Wallace] has effortlessly carried out all of of his duties entirely to his own satisfaction and with the minimum co-operation of his peers and subordinates”
Not the first time this point has been made, but as I reflect at the end of another season I can’t help but feel encouraged by the level of mutual respect between fans of Scotlands’s top division teams over the last two years.
As a Celtic fan I want my team to win as many games/trophies as possible, but at the same time am genuinely pleased to see other teams have their day in the sun.
Particular mention should be made of the achievement of St Johnstone in winning the Scottish cup for the first time.
Let’s not forget that in reaching the final they beat Aberdeen (who had thoroughly deserved their win at Celtic Park) and in the final itself disposed of a team widely praised for its depth of young talent.
All this from a club that lives within its means.
Let’s all look forward to at least one more year of the same – possibly more when the team from Govan no longer have the luxury of almost guaranteed late winners as their part time opponents inevitably tire.
Campbellsmoney says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:27 am
8 0 Rate This
Will they never learn (to spell)?
I blame the schools 😆
It is easy to laugh at the efforts of the Sons of Struth (in fact it’s almost impossible not to) but at the same time there is something almost touching about their efforts to save the club they love. I think they have been pinning all their hopes on Dave King providing the leadership (accompanied by big bags of cash) that they so desperately need. However it looks as if they have been cut adrift, having served King’s purposes for a while.
The fundamental problem now is that without King and his fabled billions, where is the £50m or so required to take the club to the top level going to come from? Not from the City, that’s for sure.Or the Blue Knights, apparently. The Sons of Struth are finding that all those wealthy “Rangers Men” didn’t get where they are today by just chucking their money away on hopeless causes.
What I can’t really understand is why the current shareholders stand by and let the management blow £12m a year of their money on an unsustainable business. Wallace can apparently “push the button” and get a few more millions to tide them over the close season. But to what purpose? If ST sales are as low as rumoured, then next year’s losses could make what has gone before look like chickenfeed.
So why would anyone throw more money at this basket case? Answers on a postcard, of course 😆
bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:54
=========
Get the message….you are nothing but CUSTOMERS. Non-paying ones at that !
————————
Bards, not having a go at you personally, however, I have seen this sentupiment appear a number of times and cannot leave it unchallenged.
I was part of a group that supported a proposal for Partick Thistle to leave Firhill and move to a new build community based sports complex less than a mile away.
We spoke with many fans at the time and there were some who, while seeing that it made complete financial sense felt that they would probably sever ties with the Club if they moved.
Football Clubs have a very different relationship with their customers than the majority of commercial businesses. If you love football and care only about watching the best then if Man Utd are playing badly, you can pop over to watch Man City. Just as if they close Tesco, you can pop into Asda.
If, however, you are a rabid Ferranti Thistle fan and, god forbid, they decide to sell the stadium and move to somewhere like, say Livingston and rename the Club, what would you do?
justbecauseyoureparanoid says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:03 am
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As a Celtic fan I want my team to win as many games/trophies as possible, but at the same time am genuinely pleased to see other teams have their day in the sun.
—————————————————————————————————————-
The pundits always point out that Celtic and NL should be winning trebles, as in their words there is no real competition without old Govan club etc..Now imagine Celtic won every trophy/competition that they entered since Feb 14 2012. The SMSM would have IMO emphasized the Armageddon scenario even more. It is no club’s divine right to win every game as history has shown us. If next season is anything like this season we are in for another exciting time. IMO Tommy Wright is the unofficial manager of the year for the achievement of winning the Scottish Cup for the first time in St Johnstones 130 year history.
You just cannot buy that (unless you are the Govan club and history has a price)
Armageddon, Armageddon where art thou Armageddon.
EKBhoy says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:59 am
Was going to post something similar but ended up thinking I couldn’t really be bothered.
The fans are to be applauded for trying to take some form of action. However until there is some form of unity and a majority position their efforts are doomed.
Given 38k season ticket holders from the past two seasons and possibly others who didn’t renew and walked away etc it is hardly surprising that there are so many different views.
The question that needs to be asked is what club do the fans actually want.
Do they want a club that unrealistically and greedily wants to chase domestic and Euro glory with a high probability of financial problems repeating every few years and a yo yo existence a la Portsmouth and Leeds?
Or
Do they want a club run on a sustainable financial model that, with the large fan base, would surely over time rise to the top of the Scottish game with the possibility of domestic success and decent Euro runs. A team that, with good footballing management decisions, scouting and player development could put out an attractive team of players who would grace National Squads and when the time was right would be sold on for profit to larger leagues.
Decide which club you, as fans, want and then who may be best to deliver it.
If it is not DK or the current board/shareholders then what are you going to do about it?
I recall a remark on my (army) ‘report card’ which might apply to a few people in football that we all know well. I was sitting an exam in which I had no real interest … I hadn’t realised that it was important!
‘ He uses well the very little knowledge that he has (on the subject). What a pity he did not know very much’.
valentinesclown says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:26 am
Presumably its Armageddon in Spain because Real and Barca didn’t win La Liga this year?
Para Handy says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:26 am
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bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:54
=========
Get the message….you are nothing but CUSTOMERS. Non-paying ones at that !
————————
Bards, not having a go at you personally, however, I have seen this sentupiment appear a number of times and cannot leave it unchallenged.
If, however, you are a rabid Ferranti Thistle fan and, god forbid, they decide to sell the stadium and move to somewhere like, say Livingston and rename the Club, what would you do?
================
First of all, I was coming from the position of the current asset owners, not me as a rival fan poking fun at their efforts.
To answer you question;
If it were my club I’d feel empty. Probably even weep. Life would never ever be the same.
A lateral thought
No CEO of TRFC since its inception has managed the business with the independence you would expect from a “normal” CEO
All of them behaved in a manner which suggests they were doing the bidding of the Spivs who control the club
Wallace is no different from those who went before him
Agreed?
So
This begs a question that hasn`t been raised so far
What is the mechanism that compels the CEO to check all major decisions with a shareholder clique?
Given that Spivs are only interested in money it can only be that payment of the “salary” and “bonus” of these CEOs is directly controlled by the clique who appointed them
i.e.
They could have their salary and or bonus stopped overnight if they didn`t play ball
Most likely GW is being paid through an escrow account with his cost back charged to TRFC through some imaginative spiv accounting
Could it be that this the same mechanism by which Ally gets paid?
If so
It goes a long way to explaining how his salary was kept secret for so long
And possibly why nobody leaked that his pay cut never happened on the date it was supposed to
bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:54 am
Get the message….you are nothing but CUSTOMERS. Non-paying ones at that !
========================================
Most businesses end-up dead if enough cusomers and potential customers don’t spend money with them. Customers have the ultimate power no matter what shareholders, directors or PR spinners might try to achieve.
Rangers is no different to any other company although for all sorts of reasons it might take longer.
Rangers fans have injected money into their club for decades longer than most of the current Board and shareholders have been alive.
It’s hardly surprising that they feel they have a moral right to the likes of Ibrox Stadium which was bought for little more than pennies by people who care not a jot for football. The fans aren’t as daft as some on here portray. They are well aware that they don’t have a legal right to the property.
But they are demanding the ultimate hoping they get some sort of written guarantee which IMO won’t be worth the paper it’s written on. However it’s all a process of changing the mind-set of the Bears so that if everything collapses and another owner ‘arrives’ he won’t have any revenue from fans without real enforceable guarantees this time.
A slow process but I am surprised that so much progress has already been made in building the Bear response which hopefully will also move away, in time, from the false hopes created by the DK’s of this world.
I don’t think this is the time to laugh at the tentative efforts of Bears not just to save their club but in the process build a fan group that eventually realises it has the power to control the future through their dosh and I just hope that it is a future different from the past and one which is also good for Scottish Football.
neepheid says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:25 am
‘…there is something almost touching about their efforts to save the club they love.’
—————————–
I sigh,wistfully.
If only they had accepted that the club they loved had died,had mourned its loss for a time, and had transferred their love to an innocent, legitimate, new- born creation, untainted by false claims to the merits and entitlements of the dead club,and not requiring that shabby ,dishonest deeds be done in well-protected secrecy by collaborators in the most dishonest act that Scottish Football has ever been guilty of!
ecobhoy says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:50 am
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That is my point. It is nothing but a business. That is the harsh reality of the situation. Look at Leeds United, do you think their fans have any bargaining chips ?
I don’t think the majority of Rangers fans are daft. Delusional, yes, but not daft.
Nothing that I’ve posted could be construed as “laughing at them”. However, I’m happy to admit that I believe they deserve every little bit of karma coming their way. Not the board, but the fans, they are the peepil that deserve it.
What I would like to see happen;
1. A season out of the game (just for the record books)
2. A new Rangers playing somewhere other than Ibrox – minus the superiority complex and associated baggage
3. Name change eg “Rangers of Glasgow”
4. History wiped for new entity
Only then would I stop feeling cheated.
I don’t think we have seen the back of DK, probably on a nice wee holiday somewhere. I expect we will hear something before the end of the week. He needs media attention and craves the attention of the fans leaders.
bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 12:24 pm
the superiority complex
————–
Here, weren’t they looking for a new name for Murray Park?……
I just read Rangers fans have designed and are selling a new shirt so that profits can be put into shares…I wonder if they are making more than the 75p they get off Astley for a jersey… I will pop by the barras on Sunday and check the new shirt out.. 😉
JimBhoy says:
May 20 2014 12.37 pm
—————————————–
RANGERS fans have launched their own shirt to protest at the under-fire Light Blues hierarchy and raise funds to purchase shares in the club.
With tensions between the Ibrox boardroom and terraces at an all-time high and only a few thousand punters believed to have renewed their season tickets so far, many supporters are likely to boycott official Rangers merchandise this summer, including the new strips that Ally McCoist’s side will wear in the Championship next term.
Red and black scarves were sold during the Gers’ financial problems two years ago and a group of fans have now taken the idea one step further and launched a red and black shirt.
More than 500 have been snapped up in the first few days of sales, with around £8 of the £32 pricetag given to the Rangers Supporters Trust, which already has 557,000 shares in the League One champions, to increase their stake.
Shares in Rangers International Football Club plc closed yesterday at a price of just 28.75p after a steady fall in recent months as fears have grown about the financial picture at Ibrox, while former director Dave King has previously intimated that he could plough up to £50million into the club via a new rights issue.
Trust chairman Gordon Dinnie said “We are delighted that the Red and Black Shirt organisers have entrusted us to buy shares on behalf of the fans. We will do so either on the open market or in support of a share issue.”
@BILLYBOYCE Anyone investing their hard earned in rangers shares had better be prepared to lose their shirt imo…
With the Angry bears not buying SBs OR official merchandise, it’s gonna be a long summer for the fans…
Hello folks, I keep reading about this demand for a ‘legally binding assurances’ statement. Please help me to understand this. If the current incumbents make a promise not to sell certain assets or use them as security against future borrowings, to a group of people who do not own even part of the said assets. They then break that promise, what ‘legally’ can be done. They own the properties so surely they can do what they like with them. Breaking a promise may not be a nice thing to do, it may be morally questionable, it may also prove beyond doubt that the current board are bare-faced liars, but can the current owners of the assets actually fall foul of the law for doing so?
bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 12:24 pm
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ecobhoy says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:50 am
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That is my point. It is nothing but a business. That is the harsh reality of the situation. Look at Leeds United, do you think their fans have any bargaining chips ?
____________________
Just last week, the board of Partick Thistle announced that they would be moving 3-400 fans from a singing section to a different stand. They were bombarded with email complaints, a petition was started and many fans threatened not renewing or buying season tickets. WIthin days, they arranged a meeting with fan representatives and reversed the decision and apologised unreservedly about both the plan and the way it was communicated.
Fans all have a bargaining chip, the right to walk away and not pay money. Even Tan is beginning to see this and one wonders when the penny will drop at Ibrox…
Fans do have bargaining chips
GoosyGoosy says:
This begs a question that hasn`t been raised so far
What is the mechanism that compels the CEO to check all major decisions with a shareholder clique?
Given that Spivs are only interested in money it can only be that payment of the “salary” and “bonus” of these CEOs is directly controlled by the clique who appointed them
i.e.
They could have their salary and or bonus stopped overnight if they didn`t play ball
Most likely GW is being paid through an escrow account with his cost back charged to TRFC through some imaginative spiv accounting
Could it be that this the same mechanism by which Ally gets paid?
If so
It goes a long way to explaining how his salary was kept secret for so long
And possibly why nobody leaked that his pay cut never happened on the date it was supposed to
=====================================================================
Goosy…I have seen, if not carried out, a few creative accounting practices in my low flying career, but have never used, let alone come across an “escrow” account for such recharging/cross charging procedures.
Whilst we have all taken RIFC/TRFC to task as to their management shortcomings, one has to bear in mind that whilst the accounts were eventually signed off, subject to a controversial letter of comfort, I do not think Deloittes would have sullied their reputation by not highlighting any such practices…mind you, have set me thinking…..
Robbyp says:
May 20, 2014 at 12:51 pm
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Hello folks, I keep reading about this demand for a ‘legally binding assurances’ statement.
==========================
Not being a law man, I’d guess that it would depend on how ‘legally binding’ the ‘assurance’ is.
Mate of mine was offered a new job recently (6 months contract IT work). He was even sent a paper contract to sign and return. On the strength of this contract, he handed his notice in with his full time job. 1 week later (still inside his notice period with his current employer) the new place pulled the plug due to budget re-prioritisation. He said something along the lines of “what about the contract” and they said something like “stiff sh1t,”
Could be wrong, but, I’d suspect a “contract” would be more “legally binding” than an “assurance” and if a contract isn’t worth the paper it is written on then even less so an assurance.
Para Handy says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:01 pm
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Fans do have bargaining chips
===========================
You’re probably right in most ‘normal’ situations with small stuff like songs, seats, pies etc.
The current Rangers problems are way way bigger than that IMO. Lets just assume for a second that all the spivs wanted to do was make plenty of cash from the sweaty masses. They’d surely have been smart enough to realise that sooner or later the customers would waken up to this and mobilise in some way. This is why the spivs also know, well in advance, that the most significant item in this whole charade is the main property, the trump card if you like. They’re also fairly comfortable that they’ll get full market rate for it when they decide to sell, to either real rangers men or a property developer.
That leads me to guess that the spivs don’t give a hoot about what the customers think. The ‘difficult to get’ cash (IPO and STs) is long gone and the easy target (ibrox) is next.
Bargaining chips expired for Rangers fans some time ago.
So where’s the other £24 going? Seems like very high production costs for a T Shirt that they can’t show a proper example of (“image for illustrative purposes only”)
And I don’t think they’re T&C’s are correct.
Isn’t there a 30 day return period for all internet purchases?
bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 12:24 pm
ecobhoy says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:50 am
Nothing that I’ve posted could be construed as “laughing at them”. However, I’m happy to admit that I believe they deserve every little bit of karma coming their way. Not the board, but the fans, they are the peepil that deserve it.
What I would like to see happen;
1. A season out of the game (just for the record books)
2. A new Rangers playing somewhere other than Ibrox – minus the superiority complex and associated baggage
3. Name change eg “Rangers of Glasgow”
4. History wiped for new entity
Only then would I stop feeling cheated.
========================================
At the end of the day Rangers supporters will determine what kind of club they end-up with. I haven’t a clue how long that will take and how many incarantions will be required to reach that position.
But in the meantime I have no intention of leading my life feeling cheated by Rangers as a club – their behaviour is now part of their history and a fact of life. I have far too many positive things going on – many outwith football – to allow myself to be tainted by angst or bitterness especially over things which I had no part in and had no control over.
Scottish Football appears to be in rude good health and hopefully it will get even better and I see that as a beacon of hope against the tawdry financial dealings at Ibrox and I believe that’s where the energy for change is best directed.
I do hope that the majority of Rangers supporters come to regard football as by far the major reason for supporting their club and if that can be achieved then hopefully the baggage and supremacy will drop by the wayside. But I truly believe that has to come from within and trying to impose it could be counter-productive IMO.
But it must be remembered that Rangers is not the only football club that suffers from external issues motivating their support. There is still a huge amount of work to be done in Scotland to create a society where sectarianism and bigotry can finally be laid to rest.
However I don’t support your comment: ‘I’m happy to admit that I believe they deserve every little bit of karma coming their way. Not the board, but the fans, they are the peepil that deserve it.’.
I know plenty of good Bears who don’t deserve what they have been put through and if we can’t at the very least reach out to them then there is no realistic chance of reconciliation in the future. Of course that healing process has opponents from both sides who wish to continue the hatred for their own reasons which also have nothing to do with football..
Age and life experience has allowed me to understand what a personally corrosive thing hatred is. So I try not to hate and I know that forgiveness is the key to progress in this area but you can’t set a timetable for forgiving as it is very much a personal thing bound-up with personal experiences.
But don’t for a minute think I am some kind of turn the other cheek punter. I was reared in a hard environment and am well able to recognise those who will always bear hatred and never change and there can be no worthwhile dialogue with them. But I do believe they are dying out as a breed and people are moving on in a more open and tolerant Scottish society.
I always used to compare them to the Sunday Post readership viz : ‘Dying of old age’. But things are moving faster these days as the readership of the whole printed media either dies of old age or adapts and adopts all the exciting and lifechanging experiences that are underway.
I have no intention of being stalled on my personal journey by the roadblocks erected by ‘hatred’.
valentinesclown says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:26 am
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justbecauseyoureparanoid says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:03 am
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As a Celtic fan I want my team to win as many games/trophies as possible, but at the same time am genuinely pleased to see other teams have their day in the sun.
—————————————————————————————————————-
The pundits always point out that Celtic and NL should be winning trebles, as in their words there is no real competition without old Govan club etc..Now imagine Celtic won every trophy/competition that they entered since Feb 14 2012. The SMSM would have IMO emphasized the Armageddon scenario even more.
—————————————————
The Old Govan Club were in 2 of the 3 competitions the media expect Celtic to win without difficulty.
So are they saying TRFC are no competition for Celtic either?
How does this square with their status as only club capable of challenging Celtic?
They seem to be saying there is no competition for Celtic without TRFC….. even when TRFC are actually in the same competition ?!!
This is the level of logic and sense Scottish football churnalists are capable of these days. Propaganda drivel to talk the game down until they get what they want. In other words, biased prejudicial reporting is rife in Scottish football. And the state broadcaster paid for by all of us is one of the major offenders. Listened to BBC Radio on Saturday. At half time discussion of events so far, who was at fault for the goal, st johnstone’s dominant midfield performance, lack of spark from Dundee Utd, the fine effort from Dow that came so close to the opening goal, Chick Young suddenly and without prompting decides to start bemoaning the “big empty spaces” in the upper tier of the stands. He did not however go onto explain how the presence of the Govan team in the SPFL top division would have magically filled those areas of the ground or why attendances at cup finals has suddenly become such a hot topic amongst our intrepid sports hack pack since 2012.
Bards – your pal should take legal advice
Campbellsmoney says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:35 pm
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Bards – your pal should take legal advice
===============================
Luckily CM, he was able to get something else at short notice and it didn’t become an issue.
He did bounce it off a lawyer friend and they said there was little chance that he’d win. I’d imagine that Australian Law would loosely based on UK law, albeit maybe 200+ years ago !
bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:26 pm
Bargaining chips expired for Rangers fans some time ago.
=======================================
I think that’s probably correct but where I possibly differ from you is that I think clever Bears recognise that and are positioning for the real fight which is what happens after the Rangers Armageddon especially if Ibrox is lost as I think it might well be.
It all depends simply on how much money can be raised on it as it will be punted to the highest bidder whethert that be DK, a Blue Knight or Tesco.
Campbellsmoney says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Bards – your pal should take legal advice
====================================
At the end of the day there’s no such thing as a legally binding contract as anyone can unilaterally tear-up a contract at any time. The important bit is usually whether any compensation awarded for the non-performance can be recovered and that usually means some sort of charge over assets has to be realised either through a previous fixed or floating arrangement or through a subsequent court order if their is actually anything there of value to attach.
wottpi says:
May 20, 2014 at 11:28 am
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EKBhoy says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:59 am
——
Hi, I believe the cultural problem with the Rangers fans is that they expect to be told by their superiors in the Big Hoose what to think, and when to think it. They are thus largely incapable as a group of (mostly) men to think for themselves.
Therefore, I was alluding to a leader stepping forward and doing the thinking for them and no-one is stepping up to the plate. King is the past and everyone now should be questioning is there a future?
@TOADINTHEHOLE
http://www.discountfootballkits.com/Nike-Striped-Division-Black-University-Red-Long-Sleeve-Football-Shirt
£16.50 minus the badge but with sleeves… Add to that a discount for volume..
http://www.redandblackshirt.co.uk
And you can buy using a credit card… 😉
ecobhoy says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:57 pm
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Campbellsmoney says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Bards – your pal should take legal advice
====================================
At the end of the day there’s no such thing as a legally binding contract as anyone can unilaterally tear-up a contract at any time. The important bit is usually whether any compensation awarded for the non-performance can be recovered and that usually means some sort of charge over assets has to be realised either through a previous fixed or floating arrangement or through a subsequent court order if their is actually anything there of value to attach.
———————————————————–
EcoBhoy
Damages for breach of contract is not the only remedy available. Specific implement/specific performance is also possible (although it will not always be appropriate, or indeed desirable, as a remedy).
Campbellsmoney says:
May 20, 2014 at 2:51 pm
Its an occupational hazard for contractors. It doesn’t happen all that often, but, in reality “suck it up” is the only real option
http://www.redandblackshirt.co.uk
Looks a bit AC Milanish to me.
Last time a team in that strip played at Ibrox questions were asked about where the money went as well!!
Thanks to Cm/Blu and others for informing me about the lack of liability attributable to the SFA wrt TRFC and ST’s.
The bee in my bonnet was thinking that there was even a tenuous duty of care responsibility on the governing body to the fans.
But pleased as ever to improve my learning on TSFM – and get some legal advice for free ! 😉
I note that Phil Mac is providing more info re Deloitte’s displeasure and his confidence in the cost of running Murray Park.
£12m per annum seems way over the top.
Does anyone know what custom built facilities such a Lennoxtown and Hibs place down at East Lothian?
If Phil is being fed the correct figures then once again T’Rangers appear to still be suffering from the ‘Minty Moonbeams money is no object’ attitude.
Reflecting on the title of this thread, it’s ironic that one of the most successful disaster movies in recent years was 2012 in which an apocalyptic end of the world was inflicted on us all. As it turned out, just as this 2009 view of future events was fortunately somewhat wide of the world, so was another, with these words uttered in 2012:
Regan described a drop to the First Division as ‘the only show in town’ and the SFA will aim to convince sceptical chairmen in the division of that. Regan said if Rangers are accepted then the loss to the SPL clubs would be around £5million. If Rangers are forced below, the loss would be closer to £15million next season and for some smaller SPL clubs that could mean administration quickly.
‘There would be a severe financial backlash,’ added Regan. ‘Clubs may be able to survive for a short period but it’s unsustainable. There would be a slow, lingering death for the game in Scotland. There are no winners, there are only losers in this.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2168924/Rangers-crisis-sparks-fears-financial-collapse-Scotland-Michael-Walker.html
The First Division clubs, some of whom have complained of feeling ‘railroaded’, will note the upping of the ante by the SFA, but whether that makes them vote to allow Rangers into their division remains to be seen. There should be a definitive resolution next week.
But if the First Division clubs say ‘no’, Regan has also raised the prospect of a breakaway SPL2. ‘We need the game to change,’ he added. ‘It’s not just a short-term fix for Rangers, it’s about fundamental change. The game is broken.’
Not just a short term fix for Rangers! Ho hum Stuart. Still waiting for you to acknowledge what utter tripe you came out with two years ago. Or are we still suffering a “slow lingering death?” Here’s some new words for you to learn. “Not fit for purposes.” Try saying them to the mirror every night.
Totally OT, but surreal.
Today my wife returned from Montreal, where our daughter is studying, and she told this funny story.
My daughter has a boyfriend who was born & bred in Montreal. As a schoolkid several years ago he stayed with a family in Bishopbriggs for a week on exchange – and the family bought him a full Rangers strip as a souvenir.
Last week he was in Peru hill walking – and wearing his Rangers top.
So this French Canadian lad, walking on a trail in the middle of Peru heard a Scottish voice shout out from behind him;
“So what’s it like being in the 3rd division ?!”
A belated congratulations to St Johnstone. I’m not going to pretend that I wasn’t disappointed on Saturday (I wouldn’t be much of a fan otherwise!) but a certain edge was taken off my disappointment by seeing a decent well run club win their first trophy after 130 years. Hope it gives the club the boost it deserves.
Scapaflow
Yip and I sympathise. This is getting a bit off-topic – but can anyone think of a better way of doing it than the way the law currently deals with it?
I once had a discussion with a bloke in a pub about such things. He had been stung by a big company who didn’t pay when and what they should have and he (because he couldn’t really afford to sue them to enforce his rights) had to “suck it up” and accept less than he was due. He said the law was an ass (or some such). I suggested that it was not the law that was an ass but the other party to the contract who was the ass. I asked him how he felt it should be dealt with.
Effectively he said that there should be a law against it and there should be some mechanism whereby someone would decide who was right and who was wrong and that that would be binding on all. I said that that was what a court was and he just refused to see it.
What he actually meant was that the court process should be quick and free (or at least affordable to all).
Well it can never be free (unless you want your taxes to pay for it and given the continual cuts to the legal aid budget, we as a society seem to have little appetite to spen taxpayers money on lawyers) so that leaves “affordable”. If you win, you can expect to get 60-70% of your costs from the other party. I would suggest that the increased competition among lawyers at the moment would mean that lawyers have never been cheaper (but still hundreds of pounds per hour- which puts them into the prohibitively expensive bracket for real people).
Not really expecting much sympathy for lawyers on here. 😉
wottpi says:
May 20, 2014 at 3:04 pm
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http://www.redandblackshirt.co.uk
Looks a bit AC Milanish to me.
Last time a team in that strip played at Ibrox questions were asked about where the money went as well!!
_____________________________________________
Only by internet bampots. The media didn’t want to know
Para Handy says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:01 pm
bards says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:26 pm
Para Handy – Good to hear that common sense broke out at your club. I agree (as I argued the other day). This is another victory for fan power.
Bards… isn’t the key question what gives Ibrox most value? A bulldozed site (would that be allowed to happen anyway, fans + ? listed status) or the site of Ibrox stadium. If the answer is the latter then fan power still surely has considerable leverage, if most of them can unite as a force?