Now that we are at the end of the league season, and with respect to the job still to be done at Tannadice and McDiarmid Park, it seems like a good time for a post holocaust report.
Fig 1 Average Weekly Attendances SPL 2011-2014
Peppered around this page are three charts and a table* showing the attendance figures for the SPL in the last three seasons. A school kid could tell you that there is a positive trend in those charts and figures, but the people who run our national sport will look you straight in the eye and tell you “that can’t be right – Armageddon is coming!”
It is one of the most ridiculous and mendacious situations I have ever come across. The people who run our national game, aided and abetted by those in the MSM (sans the eye contact though) are actually trying to persuade us of how awful our game is and how unsustainable it will be in the absence of one, just one, club.
Think about that. The SFA and the SPFL trying to talk us out of supporting the game unless we all recognise the unique importance of one, just one, club. That is what has happened, no matter how they try to spin it. And despite evidence to the contrary contained in these figures, not one of them has admitted to an error, never mind the downright lies that they told to support the position they held, the one where anyone speaking of sporting integrity was mocked and ridiculed.
Whilst growing up as football supporter in the 60s, one of things I was constantly bombarded with via the medium of the tabloid newspapers was that football clubs should be grateful for the publicity afforded them via their back pages. These were probably reasonable claims, especially in the light of the relative lack of access to players and officials conceded to the hacks in those days, and the pre-eminent cultural position in which they helped to place football. Alongside that, the broadcast media, particularly Archie Macpherson’s Sportscene and Arthur Montford’s Scotsport could be relied on to talk the game up. Of course, there was something in it for the papers – sales. The more column inches devoted to the national sport, the further northward their sales, and consequently advertising revenues travelled.
Fig 2 Avg. Attendances excl Celtic & Rangers
The situation was further cemented by the fact that the press in that ante-interweb era held a monopoly over the exchange and dissemination of information. That symbiotic, win-win relationship between football and the press was as much a part of football reality as the Hampden Roar. It also endured for decades. The press would talk up the game to such an extent that folk often remarked that they hadn’t realised how much they had enjoyed a particular match until they had read Malky Munro or Hughie Taylor’s report the next day. Archie Macpherson is on record as having said the same thing about legendary commentator David Francey, “It was a much better game to listen to than to see!”
Today that symbiosis is broken. The press themselves, in print and in front of microphones consistently belittle the product, talk of crises and Armageddon, of our own version of the Eisenhower domino effect of clubs going to the wall one after another.
Aided and abetted by the two chief bureaucrats in charge of Scottish football, Stuart Regan and Neil Doncaster, who have consistently helped to hammer home the message that Scottish football is not good enough, and cannot sustain itself financially without Rangers, a club that could not itself sustain itself financially to the extent that it is being liquidated.
At a time when Scottish football was clearly in crisis, and badly in need of sponsorship which could mitigate the effects of that crisis, the press and the authorities sought to strengthen their own negotiating hand by making negative claims about the state of the game which never came to pass, and for which they have never apologised. The actual situation, which would not have been hard to predict had anyone actually bothered to analyse the business of Scottish football, is summarised quite easily by saying this;
- Since Rangers’ liquidation and subsequent absence from the top league, the average home attendance of the other clubs has INCREASED overall (See Fig 2).
- In this season, the other clubs have added 50,000 fans to home attendances compared to 2011-12 (the last year Rangers were in competition).
- In that time the league has been won (twice) by Celtic, and the other honours have been claimed by St, Mirren, Aberdeen, Celtic and (either) Dundee United or St Johnstone.
- In that time, both Dunfermline Athletic and Hearts (who both had historical financial problems) entered – and exited – administration after fan-led buyouts.
- Dundee United have cleared off their bank debt.
- Kilmarnock have restructured their bank debt, freeing the club from a precarious long-term situation.
- League reconstruction has allowed some money to trickle down to the second tier clubs in an attempt to mitigate the immediate effects of relegation and to reward ambitious clubs.
Looking at the table of attendances above, it is pretty clear that immediately upon Rangers exit, the overall figures took a dip. However there was little difference the in the figures if you leave Rangers out of the equation (Fig 3) – despite Celtic’s attendance taking a hit that year (down by around 5,000 per home match).
Taking Celtic out of the calculations, it is clear that there is a 6,000 uplift in this average (Fig 2).
It is still undeniable that less people overall are watching football (Fig 1), but the trend is upward if one leaves the Ibrox club out of the picture.
Furthermore, this statistic exposes the double edged sword that is retention of home gates. The fact that gates are not shared is predicated upon the notion that the bigger clubs do not depend on the smaller clubs for income. And since the smaller clubs are no longer recipients of big club largesse, their fortunes are not affected, at least not as much as was suggested by the Regans, Doncasters and Traynors of this parish. The “Trickle-Down” theory of Reganomics said otherwise – but clearly and demonstrably it was wrong.
The abandonment of gate sharing has made Scottish football less interdependent than it once was, but the irony is that it works both ways. There is hardly a club in the country that depends on Rangers for their own existence, and here is the news; small clubs are no longer financially dependent on the former Old Firm.
Fig 3 Excluding Celtic
The fact, that is F-A-C-T, is that Scottish Football attendances in the top division are on the increase. The absence of Rangers has made no appreciably negative difference to any other club, far less caused a catastrophe of biblical proportions.
Even if the fools who were the harbingers of our doom were simply guilty of making an honest mistake, it is clear that they are uncontaminated with the slightest notion of how the game in this country operates. The Old Firm may be dead, but the OF prism is still being peered through by Stuart Regan, Neil Doncaster and the vast majority of print journalists. The latter who failed to honour that age-old football/press symbiosis because they believed, erroneously that David Murray’s dinner table was the hand that has fed them for over a century.
The irony is that as job opportunities diminish in the print sector, so too will the fine dining and patronage. I think they call that evolution.
Two years ago, in the wake of the fans’ season ticket revolt which saw the new Rangers forced to apply for membership of the league and begin at the bottom, those same MSM hacks taunted fans about putting their money where their mouths were. The fans responded splendidly as our statistics demonstrate, but typically there has been no recognition of this either at Hampden or in the media.
And the message from those fans is this: Scottish football is not dying. Not any more. At least not as surely as it was when David Murray started to choke the life out of it in the late 80s. The supporters are returning in numbers to see a competition untainted by the outrageous liberty-taking and rule-breaking of the last couple of decades, and all but one club has emerged from the mire of the Moonbeam Millennium looking forward to a new era.
If authorities allow the new era to thrive by restoring sporting integrity to the agenda, then the numbers, like the opportunities available to more and more clubs, will grow. The question is … will they?
Admittedly, these figures, like any set of statistics, can be cherry-picked to suit almost any argument that you care to construct. The fact remains though, that whilst it would be fanciful and ridiculously over-optimistic to claim that they bear witness to a burgeoning industry, it is utterly dishonest to conclude that they represent financial Armageddon. Armageddon? Aye right!
neepheid says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm
easyJambo says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm
=====================
Agree 100%, the boy is about as bright as a chocolate watch.
Just caught up with the thread after a week in the sun and a few memories were ignited by mention of the Real-Eintracht 7-3 game at Hampden and the England 9, Scotland 3 debacle.
I was an awestruck 14-year-old with a five-shilling ticket donated by a kind neighbour for the Celtic end at Hampden and all these years later it feels like a dream. What a game to be able to say you were at. Only Lisbon matches it for this greybeard.
As for the 9-3 game, I still laugh at Denis Law’s immortal summing up: “The problem was that we played wae an orange baw. The Rangers full backs widnae kick it and the Celtic goalie widnae touch it!” lol!
Always interesting when I hear or read fans saying of a certain owner, chief executive, manager or player that “he owes us”.
Fans are entitled to ask for commitment, loyalty, and decency from their players, managers and officials for the duration of their contracts. Nothing more.
At the end of the day people, at the top of the game, want to be successful, earn more money, and test themselves against the best they can. From that list you could perm any two of the three but mostly its all three. That, in my opinion, is reality. As fans we are the people who invest our money, commitment, and emotions into the sport but when it comes to putting a team on the park, formulating tactics, and buying players do we not expect professionalism of the highest standard. For example if your club had three really good left backs the last thing you would expect is for the manager to go and buy another very good left back when there are other glaring deficiencies in the team.
With these rules there are always exceptions where players, for whatever reason, decide to remain with the club they supported as a kid however those examples are becoming ever rarer in the modern world.
Sure we want to be successful and win in style, or even be able to win ugly, when games demand it but, particularly after the last few years, we want to be able to watch football played on as much as a level playing field as we can. Where rules are applied evenly to all clubs not based on some mythical nonsense.
Any player at the club I support owes me nothing.
Sure I’m disappointed when they want to move on or indeed the club want to sell them but, particularly if they have entertained me, then I’m generally just glad that I got to see them play for my club.
I am just catching up a bit but I’d like to add my tuppence worth.
This notion that the Championship next year is going to be a ‘better’ league than the SPL. I really don’t see how in a meritocratic league structure the league full of teams who have proven themselves to be better than the teams in the league below them can be inferior. It reminds me of how it is viewed when the European draws are made. If a club with significant history is the opponent there is an automatic assumption they will be more difficult than a relatively unknown club, some of whom have made a real impact these past few years. I even saw Tom English describe next season’s Championship as the ‘marquee’ division next season. So I guess there will be higher prize money and European qualification places available from that league then. Shouldn’t someone have told those Hamilton players yesterday to be careful what they wished for? I mean, celebrating like that when they are leaving a much better league – whatever next?!
Will the Championship be the most competitive league next season ……probably
Will it be the most exciting ……possibly
Will it provide the best quality football….not a chance
Does this prove we should have a larger top league……not on its own, but we should have
Should the League consider reconstruction…..yes, but not for next season, as that would rightly be seen as a further attempt to help individual clubs
Should Terry Butcher still be Hibs manager…..No, i have rarely seen a worse managerial performance
Should Rod Petrie remain as Hibs Chairman , even with only non exec powers…….not in my view. He epitomises all that is wrong with Hibs.
EasyJambo @4.20pm
Now there is nothing that Griffiths could get done for out of the above,
————————————————————————————
How about an affront to the English language?
I was undecided about who to cheer for watching yesterdays play off. Very quickly however I was cheering for Hamilton – they were the only team playing football. Their victory is good for the long term health of Scottish football. As Michael Stewart said on Sportscene Hibs played an outdated and low quality type of game.
Palacio67 says:
May 26, 2014 at 2:17 pm
‘… but has BDO released their up to date report yet? If not when is it due?’
——–
The third six-monthy anniversary of date of Liquidation was 30th April 2014. BDO said they would issue reports within six weeks of those anniversary dates. So, it should be out by about,what? 11th June or so.
(round about same time as me, smugas. 😀 )
upthehoops says:
May 26, 2014 at 7:07 pm
‘..This notion that the Championship next year is going to be a ‘better’ league than the SPL.I really don’t see how in a meritocratic league structure the league full of teams who have proven themselves to be better than the teams in the league below them can be inferior. ‘
———
Try telling that to the ‘newshounds’ on BBC Radio Scotland’s evening news programme at 5.30 this evening, who betray the in-built predilection for talking up anything involving the new club.
They sought the observations of a ‘Rangers’ died- in- the- wool supporter.
Honest to God, the notion of ‘balance’ whether in politics or sport , and whether on sports or news programmes, seems to be totally foreign to Pacific Quay.
As is any true appreciation of the damage done by that dead club and by the continuing mewling and spitting of the present new club as its factions tear it apart.
Torquemada says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:40 pm
25 0 Rate This
I was an awestruck 14-year-old with a five-shilling ticket donated by a kind neighbour for the Celtic end at Hampden and all these years later it feels like a dream. What a game to be able to say you were at. Only Lisbon matches it for this greybeard.
=============================================================
Torquemada…you have just redefined the quote, from Dr Johnson or was it Samuel Pepys, that “…being born an Englishman was to have won the first prize in the lottery of life…”…you were given a five bob ticket for a match billed as the greatest of the century, to that date at least…what a wonderful neighbour!
neepheid says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm
33 5 Rate This
easyJambo says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm
================
I think Mr Griffiths would be wise to give up on Facebook and Twitter, at least until he has grown up, which I guess will be about the time he gets to my age. And if he’s not wise enough to do it himself, then the club who pay him should take some sort of action. He isn’t doing himself or his club any favours with stuff like that.
=============================================================
Neepheid…bearing in mind the demographic profile of posters on this site, as confirmed by TSFM, my confusion here stems from the fact that at least 5 “old codgers” have given your post and related sentiments the old “TD”…!
This may help. As John Clark posted above, just reminded me of your post earlier, but i was busyPalacio67 says:
May 26, 2014 at 2:17 pm
‘… but has BDO released their up to date report yet? If not when is it due?’
RFC 2012 PLC (formerly The Rangers Football Club PLC) was placed into Liquidation on 31 October 2012. Malcolm Cohen and James Stephen of BDO LLP were appointed Joint Liquidators.
The Joint Liquidators’ statutory reports to all known creditors will be published on this site within six weeks of each six-month anniversary of the date of Liquidation.
The documents are to be used for information purposes only. They must not be reproduced, quoted or distributed without the prior permission of the Joint Liquidators.
Report to Creditors 15 November 2013
Report to Creditors 22 May 2013
http://www.bdo.co.uk/services/business-restructuring/rfc-2012-plc-formerly-the-rangers-football-club-plc-in-liquidation
Torquemada says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:40 pm
Just caught up with the thread after a week in the sun and a few memories were ignited by mention of the Real-Eintracht 7-3 game at Hampden and the England 9, Scotland 3 debacle.
I was an awestruck 14-year-old with a five-shilling ticket donated by a kind neighbour for the Celtic end at Hampden and all these years later it feels like a dream. What a game to be able to say you were at. Only Lisbon matches it for this greybeard.
As for the 9-3 game, I still laugh at Denis Law’s immortal summing up: “The problem was that we played wae an orange baw. The Rangers full backs widnae kick it and the Celtic goalie widnae touch it!” lol!
_______________________________________________________________________
Torq, I think that quote has been attributed to Denis Law in error, but I wanted to share this.
I once had the good fortune to interview Frank Haffey when he came back to Parkhead for the first time in almost 40 years after emigrating to Australia.
He is a really surreal, upbeat, larger-than-life character and you get the impression that he is one of life’s observers, completely unflappable and phlegmatic. He told me that Denis Law was really angry because Frank had burst into song (as he does instinctively at least once every minute) in the bath after the game. I have heard Law tell the same story. Haffey said that what Denis didn’t understand that was that the game had really affected him badly, and that had he not been singing he may have betrayed his anguish.
Despite that, he said he thought he was only to blame for one of the goals. He also told me that upon arrival at Glasgow Central on the return from London, he dodged questions fro the waiting press-pack by claiming that he couldn’t stop to chat because “my mother is expecting me home before ten!”
smartie1947 says:
May 26, 2014 at 7:48 pm
14 1 Rate This
EasyJambo @4.20pm
Now there is nothing that Griffiths could get done for out of the above,
————————————————————————————
How about an affront to the English language?
==========================================
Smartie…you beat me to it!
My wee maw (RIP) would have flayed me, (verbally at least!) for speaking or writing, let alone thinking along these lines..!
Haw maw…gonnae no…!
John Clark says:
May 26, 2014 at 8:25 pm
4 0 Rate This
upthehoops says:
May 26, 2014 at 7:07 pm
‘..This notion that the Championship next year is going to be a ‘better’ league than the SPL.I really don’t see how in a meritocratic league structure the league full of teams who have proven themselves to be better than the teams in the league below them can be inferior. ‘
———
Try telling that to the ‘newshounds’ on BBC Radio Scotland’s evening news programme at 5.30 this evening, who betray the in-built predilection for talking up anything involving the new club.
They sought the observations of a ‘Rangers’ died- in- the- wool supporter.
Honest to God, the notion of ‘balance’ whether in politics or sport , and whether on sports or news programmes, seems to be totally foreign to Pacific Quay.
=================================
Thankfully I did not hear that John. I really marvel at the BBC given their supposedly fractious relationship with the club from Ibrox, which of course allows them only minimum media facilities at Ibrox. Despite that they continue to employ more pundits with a fondness for Ibrox than anywhere else. They also hand over the licence fee we all pay to allow only certain angles on the Ibrox debate to be promoted. It also looks like they are going to ensure the ‘Championship is superior to the Premiership’ line will become accepted fact. Early indications from those who get our licence fee like Tom English, Keith Jackson, Chick Young etc is that the Championship is going to be promoted to a point of actually demeaning the Premiership. Crazy, crazy stuff, and all for one reason, or to be more specific one club only. It would be laughable if it wasn’t actually public money that is financing such a biased stance, which in turn makes it an absolute disgrace.
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 8:47 pm
1 0 Rate
… Despite that, he said he thought he was only to blame for one of the goals. He also told me that upon arrival at Glasgow Central on the return from London, he dodged questions fro the waiting press-pack by claiming that he couldn’t stop to chat because “my mother is expecting me home before ten!”
———-
Wonderful anecdote. I wonder if his punctuality excuse to the press had anything to do with the scoreline joke that I remember hearing: “What’s the time?” “Haffey past nine!”
Those bumming up the championship as the one to watch would appear to be suffering from some sort of nostalgia vision, they have instantly forgotten that the three “big teams” have for the most part played some of the direst football on show in British football!
All three of these teams have the potential to carry economic might but to improve the quality of the product they each have unique challenges? There will be no famous five, Dave Mckay or John Greig playing for any of these teams, the days of glory have gone, for the time being , for all of these clubs. Next year will be not just a competition for promotion but a fight to keep that economic might.
The Scottish premier remains Scotland’s prestigious tournament.
Was reading Phil’s latest and if the 10,000 ST figure is true (giving about £4m paid or pledged) how can the club convince anyone that it can complete next season? Phil’s blog outlines: £1.5m loan needing repaid, Graham Wallace’s tax-free bonus, continuing wages & running costs all set against poor income streams.
Isn’t Ibrox currently running on fumes?
The Championship thing. I agree that it will be a potentially more exciting competition than the top league next year, but the press might want to ask themselves why?
Why, if we need Rangers so badly in the top division to provide “proper” competition for Celtic, won’t the Championship be another one-horse race won at a canter by Rangers? Because if the MSM predictions of the inevitable Rangers rise to the top play out, I can’t see how it will be any more interesting than the Premiership.
If the teams are more evenly matched in the championship, then the best means of providing “more competition” for Celtic is to have the best team from that division go up next year.
Danish Pastry says:
May 26, 2014 at 9:15 pm
Isn’t Ibrox currently running on fumes?
=================================
There seems to be ample evidence it may well be, but does it matter? All the authorities, both football and non-football will not allow the entity playing from there to cease to exist. It will not matter which rules or laws are bent or downright broken, because the club from Ibrox have survival guarantees no other past or present club has ever enjoyed.
I suspect the race for the second tier title in Scottish football will be more exciting and difficult to predict than the top tier… as it was last season, and the season before and many seasons previously. There will undoubtedly be many more bums on seats at matches in the second tier, perhaps than ever before. There will probably be more interest amongst all the ordinary supporters of Scottish football in the second tier than ever before. With the potential for points deductions there might even be more interest in the second tier relegation battle than ever before. But whatever goes on in the second tier, it will be the top tier where the games that really matter are played, regardless of what the SMSM would like to portray, and they will try, very hard, to portray it as the ‘important’, ‘interesting’, ‘significant’, and a whole raft of ludicrous adjectives, league, at least they will if TRFC are in it. If not, they won’t be in the least bit interested, regardless of how exciting it becomes.
It would be very interesting to see which end of the table gets most media coverage should, say, Hearts and Hibs, have a real ding dong battle for the title, while TRFC, as a result of admin/austerity, find themselves in a relegation fight, or probably even more bland, a mid-table non-event. Well actually, no it wouldn’t, coz we know there’ll be more coverage of what Ally has for breakfast than insightful comment on what’s happening in the capital.
Of course, what the media ignore is the fact that any interest in the Championship will be intensified should TRFC struggle, or just not do very well.
I see that the campaign has started that the Championship will be better than the Premiership because Hibs, Hearts, and ‘The Rangers’ are in it.
Well Hibs and Hearts used to be large clubs and indeed still are attendance wise however Dundee and Kilmarnock used to be big clubs historically. Aberdeen and Dundee United have more recent claims to be big clubs.
Hibs and Hearts have both just been relegated from the Premiership so that in itself tells you the story that they are not good enough to be there. While Hearts can claim that the 15 point deduction obviously had an impact this is ultimately the price paid for years of over spending.
‘The Rangers’ of course have never been in the Premiership so there can be no comparison made.
The standard of football in the Championship next year will be as good as it ever was because that is the standard of the league. It won’t suddenly become La Liga because three big names are there.
I remember hearing Alex Fergusson discussing the Cup Winners Cup final defeat of Real Madrid. He simply said that every day he impressed on his players that they were playing the current team NOT the legends of the past and indeed that was the reality. They were playing against an average Real Madrid team shorn of much of its glamour and prestige.
That is the position that the Championship is at for next season. Yesterdays teams attempting to regain some former glory which is now fading distantly into the past.
Heard today;
the league reconstruction agreement, which included an agreement to spread the wealth a little more equitably also included a quid pro quo that the SPFL and the SFA will not oppose a move to England for Celtic;
there are three obstacles to that happening and only one – the Scottish authorities – are onside. UEFA and the English authorities may be tougher nuts to crack;
the Conference is the route that Celtic is actively engaged in pursuing;
the Rangers board and shareholders are split on whether to cut and run or stick due to the (as they see it) lunatic antics of the fans;
very vehemently, administration NOT an option, although with the agreement of 75% of shareholders they may sell TRFC for around £20-£25m;
feeling amongst the cut and run brigade is that this price is achievable.
Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing the mechanisms of this (TRFC stuff), so there was little in the way of a two-way discussion comments/observations/secondary questions are welcome.
justshatered says:
May 26, 2014 at 9:59 pm
” Yesterdays teams attempting to regain some former glory which is now fading distantly into the past.”
———-
That’s a very good line.
It’s probably the case, though,that Hibs and Hearts ( assuming the bulk of their fan bases remains faithful) will avoid a long, slow slide into being locked long-term into the Championship. TRFC -if it survives at all and keeps a reasonably large following- will likewise probably not languish there permanently. In their case I venture to suggest that if they don’t come top next season,the push will already be in place for league re-construction to save them, whether they come second, third, or fourth!
That I could seriously write that is because I think the past behaviour of the Authorities shows that they will not scruple to bend their every effort to protect that club.
Happily, last time round, our clubs made that difficult for them , up to a certain level of principle, even if they weakened at the end.
But unless there is a thorough muckin’ o’ the 6th Floor byre, we simply cannot trust the Authorities as presently constituted to behave honourably and justly.
easyJambo says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm
25 30 Rate This
I have been keeping an eye on message boards and social media since yesterday’s play-off game, seeing the reaction of Accies and Hibs fans and the subsequent actions from Hibs themselves (11 players released today).
Much of the comment unsurprisingly has been upbeat from the Accies side and highly critical from Hibs mainly of the Hibs owners, management and the players,
However I was somewhat shocked to see the Facebook comments of one ex Hibs player (and supporter) being critical of an individual Hibs player, in Jason Cummings, a youngster who had actually got the team to the verge of winning the play off after his two goals in the first leg.
Here are some of the comments from Leigh Griffiths
That had to be deleted as no doubt it’ll cause more trouble than it’s worth!
Apparently giving it the big 1 to girls in Shanghai “Google me”. What they gonna ind on google wee man??? Too goal scorer for u20s ???? Aye that’s something to be chirpy about
You could tell with his interview on Wednesday he was billy big baws. Scores 2 , huge time interview….then posted missing today?!?!
Good zing by myself…could’ve opened up a tin eh beans…..the next time he opens a tin eh beans, the wee man will be chucking them on toast!!!
Fair enough…but I ain’t the1 giving it big licks in interviews after scoring 2 goals in well over 10+ appearances???
Right so after bummin himself up in the press, giving it the big 1 up town near enough every sat night with the Hibs boys…he doesn’t deserve a bit criticism ??? If u had a look on his twitter/Instagram then you’d come back and apologise to me and say your right, billy big time before he has even kicked a ball. Fact. U keep your mouth shut until your a first team regular and playing well, is always been like that.
Now there is nothing that Griffiths could get done for out of the above, and as a Hibs supporter he has every right to feel bad about their relegation, but given his own recent history you would think that he would learn to keep his gob shut. Not only that, I believe that it is highly unprofessional for a current Scotland Internationalist to rip into an 18 year old lad that would probably be playing for Scotland U19s tonight in their UEFA Championship Elite Round group if he hadn’t been playing for Hibs yesterday.
I don’t know what Celtic said to him after the Hearts and Skacel incidents (which are still subject to a police investigation), but I suspect it has fallen on deaf ears.
neepheid says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm
39 5 Rate This
easyJambo says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm
================
I think Mr Griffiths would be wise to give up on Facebook and Twitter, at least until he has grown up, which I guess will be about the time he gets to my age. And if he’s not wise enough to do it himself, then the club who pay him should take some sort of action. He isn’t doing himself or his club any favours with stuff like that.
Tic 6709 says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:39 pm
24 5 Rate This
neepheid says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm
easyJambo says:
May 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm
=====================
Agree 100%, the boy is about as bright as a chocolate watch.
The comments by Hibs players throughout the season have simply reflected an attitude to honest work which has shown extreme disrespect to their fans who have spent hard earned money to support a bunch of what appear to be spoiled, immature kids almost destroy a once proud club. Butcher et al. have to recreate an ethos of hard work where nothing can be taken for granted.
As for Griffiths (and Stokes), if they don’t get the message and ‘grow up’ within the next 3/4 months, chase them. Outrageous attitudes from supposed ‘adults’ who haven’t a clue what hard work means and an arrogance which would make most hope for a fall sooner rather than later.
Is Craig Whyte not back in court this week with the Ticketus appeal ?
Or am i jumping the gun 😳
Danish Pastry says:
May 26, 2014 at 9:01 pm
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 8:47 pm
1 0 Rate
… Despite that, he said he thought he was only to blame for one of the goals. He also told me that upon arrival at Glasgow Central on the return from London, he dodged questions fro the waiting press-pack by claiming that he couldn’t stop to chat because “my mother is expecting me home before ten!”
———-
Wonderful anecdote. I wonder if his punctuality excuse to the press had anything to do with the scoreline joke that I remember hearing: “What’s the time?” “Haffey past nine!”
________________________________________________________________________
I think it had everything to do with that DP 😈
Strangely, my mother, not the best teller of jokes, often mis-spoke that punchline as “nine-past-Haffey!”
Think it must be poor timing on my mum’s part 😉
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 10:35 pm
Heard today;
the league reconstruction agreement, which included an agreement to spread the wealth a little more equitably also included a quid pro quo that the SPFL and the SFA will not oppose a move to England for Celtic;
the Conference is the route that Celtic is actively engaged in pursuing;
———————————————
Interesting if true especially wrt the conference route – that’s a long time out of the limelight and would involve some serious financial backing – having said that it’s probably the only likely route in for them in the short term.
Don’t see effective opposition from UEFA as technically ‘same’ country and they already allow cross border incursions from Wales.
Not sure how keen the English clubs would be though – and I have my doubts that it would bring any more ‘Sky money’ to the table.
A
Re Griffiths and his latest social media”gaffe”
When will people wake up ?
We have umpteen thousands who thought NL worthy of persecution simply because he came across as an aggressive wee nyaffe on the field and as a manager
We have just as many who think AmC worthy of ridicule because he aint as slim as he used to be and is a hopeless manager
We have millions of people who believe Scotland (and presumably Scottish Football) will be a fairer society if only they could throw off the shackles of being occasionally reined in by UK law
And yet
Despite all the past evidence of exceptional players who had character problems
The name of the game seems to be
Painting players into a canvas where they not only have to play well but they have to be examples for all of us in how to lead their lives
Well I for one don’t buy this “holier than thou” nonsense
Let the Law take care of any indiscretions
And let’s cut some slack for those lesser mortals whose brains are in their feet
Lee Griffiths aint George Best
But he doesn’t deserve worse treatment for his off the field antics
Danish Pastry says:
Phil’s blog outlines: …”… Graham Wallace’s tax-free bonus…”
=============================================
DP…please do not tell me that some CA has come up with a “tax mitigation arrangement”…or are we back to where it all started?
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 10:35 pm
‘..there are three obstacles to that happening and only one – the Scottish authorities – are onside..’
———-
Bearing in mind that the Scottish (football) Authorities wanted to kick Celtic out of Scottish Football when I was a boy, that is perhaps not surprising! Their institutional memories are longer even than mine. 😀
Seriously, though, in the wider political arena, a number of perhaps not wholly welcome issues might arise if the Referendum produces a ‘yes’. Not the least of these would be a kind of double whammy for Celtic supporters in being seen not only as ‘immigrants’ in this country of Scotland, but as immigrants living here but having their football played in a ‘foreign’ country’s league! ( And the situation would be quite different from the Berwick or Cardiff situations)
It would be interesting to have a comment from a political party spokesperson on the possibility.
As regards the other buzz
[“the Rangers board and shareholders are split on whether to cut and run or stick due to the (as they see it) lunatic antics of the fans;”]
While it may be the case that the split board may not choose to go into Administration- the choice might not be theirs to make!
And that estimate of the worth of TRFC can only be a pipe-dream. The ‘Rangers that was’, a fairly good team, plus the other assets, were picked up for relative buttons. No consortium is going to look at paying four or five times as much for the clapped out product that TRFC currently is, no matter how long-term a view they take of getting a return for their money.
In my opinion, the spivs have got things very badly wrong indeed. They will not care about killing the new club, but will be heavily disappointed that they will individually do a whole lot less well than than CG, in the final upshot.
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 10:35 pm
the Rangers board and shareholders are split on whether to cut and run or stick due to the (as they see it) lunatic antics of the fans;
very vehemently, administration NOT an option, although with the agreement of 75% of shareholders they may sell TRFC for around £20-£25m;
——————————————————–
Hard to see where they’d get a buyer at those sums and certainly not as a business venture – I mean what century would you finally see a profit!
That would leave fan/businessmen and they were somewhat reluctant to pony up the last time a chance came round. Even if DK has the money don’t see him blowing that amount in buying the club.
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 10:44 pm
Strangely, my mother, not the best teller of jokes, often mis-spoke that punchline as “nine-past-Haffey!”
——
Perhaps she was thinking of a similar joke from a few years earlier with the punch line “Seven past Niven”.
“Bring on the Hearts the Hibs the Rangers. .. ” Gotta love the old Cowdenbeath songs.
Let’s see if I have this right
To avoid an open sale liquidation to the benefit of creditors with a `going concern` under Law
– Duff and Phelps – `Sold`
`The Assets` including Murray Park with running costs at 12 million quid per year
Equates to their annual ticket revenue
Without financial restructuring by the `Court Appointed` Insolvency Administrators?
Anybody got a clue what’s really gone / going on?
Looks like concocted porkies
– Frankly
essexbeancounter says:
May 26, 2014 at 8:40 pm
——————————
That’s how I feel too, EBC. My neighbour’s name was Mr Kennedy, “Wee Joe” to his many friends. He knocked our door and asked my dad if I’d like to go, refusing all offers of payment. I couldn’t believe it when my dad agreed, after much pleading by me, to let me go, because we lived on the other side of the city, the Northwest, and it was a bit of a trek in those days, even on a beautiful sunny evening.
The fact that he then slipped me half a crown he could ill afford just made a magical event even more dream-like. All the talk before the game was that the Germans would be too hot for an aging Real to handle, given that they had slaughtered a pretty decent Rangers team 12-4 over two legs in the semi-final, a feeling that was accentuated when they took the lead. Six goals later — all for Real — a few minds had been changed. 😀
I occasionally rhyme off that Real team to impress my mates in the pub after a few pints of the black stuff. It’s one of two European Cup-winning teams I know off by heart. I’ll give you three guesses as to the other one!
BigGav says:
May 26, 2014 at 11:14 pm
‘..Strangely, my mother, not the best teller of jokes,’
———–
I fondly remember my dad telling the joke about the guy with constipation who is given some suppositories by the doctor who tells him to ‘take these and throw them up the back passage’ and come back next week, He goes back next week and complains that for a’ the good they did, he might as well have shoved them up his a..e!.
That was the joke, but my old man always got it wrong way round! I laugh now at the joke itself and I smile in happy remembrance of him telling it.
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 10:35 pm
……………………….
In terms of obstacles…England is insurmountable..the legal structure and economic monster it has now become is such that applying for membership and being granted it is one thing…but the level you are pushed in at would be the bottom tier…as it should be…we can not on one hand be outraged that a new club in Scotland should be considered by the authorities granted direct access to the SPL…for them to ask for entry into the first division…to finally be given entry into division 3…why should Celtic be any different in England?…
What is the purpose of going to England?…cash?…footballing success?
I can assure anyone who is interested…the legal challenge by various clubs and leagues who would be financially disadvantaged would bring the English game to a stand still…unless a new club starts at the bottom…which is at least a 10 year run of year on year promotions to reach the EPL..
As an example…Aldershot who went bust whilst in the Football League and had to start at the bottom…got promoted in their first season and their 2nd season…they then reached the 2nd tier of the Isthmian League..a league were some clubs were paying players 600-800 quid a week plus company cars and bonuses…they failed to get promoted…which was cheered loudly on the last day of the season in the bar of a game I was involved in in the same league…why was it cheered…because they carried 2k fans to every away game which was a big pay day for some of those clubs…
The Pyramid system in England does not allow leap frogging..and nor should it…so if Celtic want to join England…we start at the bottom…we should not be looking to cheat the system.
The only thing that will change the above is if the 4 home nations are dissolved and a single UK FA is created and complete restructure of British football takes place…because regardless of what we think UEFA already consider the UK as 4 seperate countries….a yes vote wont change this…
So personally BP…it ain’t happening any time soon pal!
GoosyGoosy says:
May 26, 2014 at 11:00 pm
‘…Lee Griffiths aint George Best
But he doesn’t deserve worse treatment for his off the field antics.’
————-
As I understand it, he is being criticised for publicly slagging off a member of the same ‘profession’, and not so much for his personal moral behaviour.
There is, as far as I”m aware only one sport in which it has become ‘de rigeur’ to do that, and that is professional boxing.
It simply is not done in tennis, golf, , swimming, athletics or any of the other, largely ‘individual’ sports.
And it certainly is not done in team sports.
Griffiths has to learn that , unlike, perhaps, an individual sportsman, he could do nothing, nothing, and be nothing, nothing on the field of play without his team-mates.
And that if he makes himself an objectionable, unprofessional s-d, he will lose any kind of respect that his undoubted talents would otherwise command. Even that of his team-mates. And his employers.
Someone should, very delicately, kick his ar.e good and hard, for his own sake.Or, perhaps, dump him as a liability. Hubris-whether that of a club majority shareholder or of a talented player- invites and deserves the mocking punishment of the gods. Ask any ancient Greek!
John Clark says:
May 26, 2014 at 8:25 pm
They sought the observations of a ‘Rangers’ died- in- the- wool supporter.
“Dyed in the wool” surely?
What a lovely Freudian Slip
John C
I asked about the certainty of no admin and the reply was “90% certain”
Equal certainty on the part of two people who know the game that the figure could be achieved because with a sensible business plan and astute football strategy, a serious return on money could be had within five years. I have to say that I can’t see anyone passing on a potential profit just because their own deal wasn’t as sweet as an historical one. That more testosterone than business, and in my own experience not the way successful people do business.
Don’t forget that Fergus was only looking to make around 20% over five years. He got lucky but would have been happy with a lot less than he made.
I was told that the D&P asset sale figure is irrelevant going forward. If the current board get the thing cleared up fit for sale, that would be a bullish, but achievable figure. The alternative to those who want out is to sell to DK for a lot less. They are pretty angry at King, but business is business and the attitude amongst that constituency is to get out whilst they can get something and put the loss down to experience.
The feeling is those who bought at 70p may have a paper loss of 50p but after writing off the tax it is only 25p. Some of those guys would be happy to go now, but there are bulls in the bear’s den who see a possible turnaround being achievable. The fly in the ointment is the more insane fan groups who ironically are at last fighting against the regime – but only after a board with the pan to get things right have arrived. Their incredulity is that they are not being given a reasonable chance because they are not “real Rangers men”.
Paulmac2 says:
May 26, 2014 at 11:43 pm
Big Pink says:
May 26, 2014 at 10:35 pm
Maybe I am outraged 🙂 Two things;
Firstly, I am merely imparting some information. I am not advocating anything.
Secondly, my own view on Rangers leapfrogging other clubs in 2012 in Scotland is pretty consistent with my view on Celtic leapfrogging anyone else in England. I disagree profoundly with both. I also disagree profoundly with the notion that Celtic should abandon Scottish football.
Again, I am not looking t cheat anyone or anything
Thankfully, it seems then that we are still friends 🙂
Paulmac2 says:
May 26, 2014 at 11:43 pm
‘..the legal challenge by various clubs and leagues who would be financially disadvantaged .’
———
That’s assuming that the FA would so badly handle things as to force any league or club to raise a legal challenge.
I would submit that the FA would
a) explain to any would-be applicant for membership what the rules about admission were
b) would consider whether the admission of any applicant might result in great benefit to the FA membership as a whole
c) would then, if they concluded that it would, consult every member club of the FA , hear their worries and anxieties-particularly of those who, as likely or potential promotees from the various lower leagues, or as potential applicants for FA membership, might be discommoded by a ‘fast stream’ applicant
d) and, dependent on the outcome of those discussions, arrange for an egm or agm to authorise a change in the rules to allow for a ‘fast stream’ admission, on condition of agreed compensation to clubs all the way down the chain.
This could be done completely above board, openly, honestly, and as a matter of decent, sensible , principled business, not as back-door accommodation of a crooked, dishonest, cheating club .
Done that way , there would be no legal challenge-and the whole of English football would benefit without the devious, rule-breaking, chicanery to protect a cheating, football entity that we have, unfortunately experienced.
And I would further submit that UEFA would [ leave aside political independence of Scotland] be quite happy to endorse the business.
Not that I would personally be all that happy if Celtic were to leave Scottish Football.I don’t think I would be, if truth be told.But I think the ‘obstacles’ in their way could be overcome in fairly short order-if the FA saw any kind of advantage.
enough is enough says:
May 27, 2014 at 12:12 am
‘..What a lovely Freudian Slip.’
——–
As soon as the post appeared (but too late to allow amendment) I saw the spelling mistake and then immediately (devious sod that I am) thought that I might just get away with it if people thought it was a deliberate play on words.
But, just as Oor Wullie frequently experienced, the wee bloody goody-goody angel on my shoulder tells me No, I must own up.It was a spelling mistake.
ptd1978 says:
May 26, 2014 at 12:36 pm
33 3 Rate This
Angry Young Man62
That’s a great selection of stats. I never realised the lack of mobility in the Scottish league was so apparent. I guess if we were talking about people we would call it social mobility.
There’s another lesson in there for the blazers too. The big leagues aren’t afraid to cast off big teams if their performance deserves it. In England, Forest have 2 European cups, but no one is desperate to boost them into the top flight.
————————-
At the level of European competition, money-spinning potential can trump sporting rules – the year after Liverpool won the Champions’ League, they finished one place too low in the English league to qualify the next year. A rule was hastily invented over the close season that the holders should get in, and was effective immediately – if memory serves, a team from the Euro boondocks was made to play an extra qualifier to free up a space, although whatever the mechanism was, it didn’t get much publicity. The lubrication of Liverpool’s access to the competition was simply taken as an entitlement. Football plus money minus integrity, the bane of the sport. Mind you, some of the bent ref stories from the seventies in Euro games show that the game has always had it’s share of bad ‘uns at all levels!
GoosyGoosy says:
May 26, 2014 at 11:00 pm
===============================
Re Leigh Griffiths. It would appear, simply from what they say and write, many media people would be only too happy to see him treated differently. When they frequently talk of him facing police action without demanding the police take action against other offenders in the pub what else are we to think. Griffiths, no matter his potential wrong doing, appears to have signed for the wrong club if he actually wants true justice to be the demand of the day. This is nothing new of course, as his departing Manager would tell him. I will never forget the constant media demands for the ‘book to be thrown’ at Neil Lennon when similar offences by other managers often passed with little debate. In truth the media were demanding the SFA rip up the book and punish Neil Lennon at will, which is exactly what they did, with Celtic having to hire a top QC to ensure justice. Justice did not truly happen of course because others, notably from Celtic’s main rivals at the time, escaped smirking with nothing other than a slap on the wrist from one particular game. It’s more than that though, for the crime of remonstrating with a Referee, the media once branded Neil Lennon a ‘thug’ and demanded he receive a ban of between 12 and 18 games. Going back to Griffiths, he can take the medicine for whatever he may be found guilty of, but where he earns his living makes it well nigh impossible for him to receive a fair trial. Perhaps if he had already been found guilty on several counts of operating an illegal tax evasion scheme, with the potential for far worse to be established, he would find the lack of media demands for justice to be ever so slightly less stressful.
essexbeancounter says:
May 26, 2014 at 11:01 pm
6 0 Rate This
DP…please do not tell me that some CA has come up with a “tax mitigation arrangement”…or are we back to where it all started?
————–
I thought I’d read the same last week whilst going through the paper at Coia’s (still a wee gem on a now tired Duke Street). It’s another of those very odd arrangements.
Paying him an extra £300,000 (salary x 2?) to help secure the £10m ST cash and to whitewash the wasted £67m probably seemed a good idea at the time. Most on here smelt something fishy, though, as soon the 120-day review was announced — backed to the hilt as it was by the financially astute Gordon Dalziel & Co on Radio Clyde 😀
Oh dear. According to today’s Daily Record Doncaster has already offered to swap some of next years SPL games for Championship games. What about actually offering a separate TV deal for the Championship – perhaps BBC or STV may even be interested. Seems thinking outside the box is not for Mr Doncaster. Perhaps it needs more than £250K a year to do that.
upthehoops says:
May 27, 2014 at 7:25 am
1 0 Rate This
Oh dear. According to today’s Daily Record Doncaster has already offered to swap some of next years SPL games for Championship games. What about actually offering a separate TV deal for the Championship – perhaps BBC or STV may even be interested. Seems thinking outside the box is not for Mr Doncaster. Perhaps it needs more than £250K a year to do that.
——–
Just read the same article @upthehoops. If KJ’s information is correct it looks as though Doncaster has already promised these alternative matches to Sky & BT as part of their current deal — but at least the club’s concerned have a proper TV gantry! The use word of the word ‘swop’ is worrying.
Will be very interesting to see if Doncaster is actually working for Scottish football or for the benefit of TV companies by giving away TV rights on the cheap.
Though possibly not as worrying as the inability of yours truly to spell ‘swap’ 😛
enough is enough says:
May 27, 2014 at 12:12 am
John Clark says:
May 26, 2014 at 8:25 pm
They sought the observations of a ‘Rangers’ died- in- the- wool supporter.
“Dyed in the wool” surely?
What a lovely Freudian Slip
===========================================================
…assuming the “supporter” ever knew otherwise in the first place…Freud cannot be blamed for that!
Oh boy. Surely only in Scotland can elements within the MSM be looking at such a half glass empty view of Scottish football! The season just completed has been, in terms of theatre, drama, excitement, one of the best for many years with some pretty decent football performances thrown in for good measure. How about giving that the recognition it deserves?
Back at the start of 2013/14 I heard Chic Young give a predictably downbeat view on Scottish football, because we already knew who would win the top flight. But as even he must have realised as he stood on the pitch at Easter Road on Sunday afternoon, we had just witnessed the culmination of a season that, if it was a soap opera, we would have criticised for a ridiculously overblown plot. Never mind the return of dead Dirty Den, this was akin to the plane crash in Emmerdale.
We had second and third decided by virtually a last kick of the ball in the last game of the season contested by those two teams, a cup final won by Aberdeen as their first silverware in 18 years, the first silverware for St Johnstone ever electrifying the city of Perth and the introduction of a play off that saw a gripping end of season contest with five top tier teams caught in its grip. Meanwhile the Scottish Championship had three teams competing for the title until the final day of their season. All this followed by the drama of a play off where Hibs had 2 minutes of a wretched season to see out to stay in the top flight, only to be sent down by an added time equaliser followed by penalties.
As a script it would have verged on territory considered to be straining credibility beyond breaking point, yet it made for gripping drama with the reality of this non fiction underlined by the angry scenes outside Easter Road after the final whistle, the voice of Terry Butcher drained and tortured by his disastrous spell at the helm and the images of fans reactions within the stadium.
So what is the reaction of the media? Well if we were in the world of soap operas it’s suddenly as if a dramatic plot twist has seen audience ratings for Crossroads (yes for those of a certain vintage) overtake Coronation Street. It’s now about how the Scottish Championship will eclipse the Premiership next season!
Yes, the Scottish Championship will make for pretty compelling drama next season with Hibs, Hearts and TRFC all there. Each has a compelling narrative. Hearts recovering from admin. How will the new Budge/Levein/Neilson axis work out in practice? A new financially prudent regime. Will Hibs rise like a phoenix from the ashes? Can TRFC actually see through the season with their financial problems once more acute? What about the other teams there? Will Falkirk, Queen of the South, others give this “big three” a run for their money?
So plenty to get excited about and why shouldn’t TV companies be interested in greater coverage? This should be a good news story. We’re not now in a situation with an SPL competing with a separate League. There is one League body and a greater interest in SPFL games should be good news for all Scottish football. So why seek to turn this into a negative whereby a heightened dramatic interest in the Championship is to the detriment of the Premiership?
It goes right to the heart of the whole saga about TRFC, sporting integrity and Scottish Football needs a strong Ibrox club. It’s the mentality that says we have to see the biggest teams at the top. Why? If it’s that important don’t bother with a league based on points. Do it on average home attendance. Every season Celtic would most likely win, TRFC second, a “thrilling” contest between Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen for third and equally a thriller every year to see which of the Dundee clubs took the final top 6 slot. Every single year, the “biggest” clubs at the top, where they belong, because that is what Scottish football needs!!!
This moronic mindset is somehow ingrained in the thinking of too many commentating on our game. So to remind them, football is actually about, well about football. About which team gets better results than other teams. While I might miss the greater away support (and atmosphere) Hibs brings to Tannadice for next season, I would like to see my team playing against the best teams in Scotland. On the evidence of the play off, Hamilton are the much better team so they should be in the top flight.
While the Championship may be exciting next season, in terms of quality of football, the best will be seen in the Premiership, because that is where the best teams play. That’s how the system works. Please make a note MSM commentators! The fact that once again it will be a one horse race is irrelevant. It would be even if the Championship three were in the Premiership for 2014/15. But that doesn’t mean to say there won’t be plenty of excitement just as with the season just ended. Will the gap narrow with a new manager at Celtic? Or widen with them winning all three domestic trophies. How will they fare in Europe. Can Aberdeen, Motherwell, United, others? mount another compelling contest for second and close the gap on first? No obvious relegation candidate this season. We really don’t need to talk one league down just because another will be more interesting.
The exciting season just concluded has been delivered by a league of 12, second league of 10 with a play off introduced. The evidence has been that this has worked! So how about seeing if the next few seasons shape up the same way before we start revisiting league reconstruction? I’m not convinced that a top flight of 16 teams would have generated anything like as compelling a narrative. Heaven forbid but Neil Doncaster may have a point about meaningful games in a smaller league! Roll on 2014/15 and Armageddon II.
Danish Pastry says:
May 27, 2014 at 7:32 am
upthehoops says:
May 27, 2014 at 7:25 am
Oh dear. According to today’s Daily Record Doncaster has already offered to swap some of next years SPL games for Championship games. What about actually offering a separate TV deal for the Championship – perhaps BBC or STV may even be interested. Seems thinking outside the box is not for Mr Doncaster. Perhaps it needs more than £250K a year to do that.
——–
Just read the same article @upthehoops. If KJ’s information is correct it looks as though Doncaster has already promised these alternative matches to Sky & BT as part of their current deal’.
Will be very interesting to see if Doncaster is actually working for Scottish football or for the benefit of TV companies by giving away TV rights on the cheap.
==========================================
We really have to get a grip of ourselves. Doncaster will do nothing that his employer doesn’t want him to do. What we need to know is which clubs are involved with the current TV negotiations over this issue if indeed the report is correct.
It is also the case that this would need to go to a vote of all SPFL clubs IMO. So they will decide what happens.
This isn’t a defence of Doncaster but a disinclination on my part to treat him as the bogeyman for all ills of Scottish Football. We really shouldn’t be getting led by the nose by the SMSM to suit whatever agenda they are pursuing.
The people responsible for this decision, if it comes to pass, are our own clubs who vote for it – Doncaster will do as he is told and pick-up another bonus for absorbing the flak which should be aimed at the faceless people in our clubs who seem to feel they have no duty to their paying customers to explain their last pathetic foray into the big world of TV negotiations.
While public attention is on Doncaster the real deal is getting done behind the scenes, in OUR name, by all our clubs ❗
JimBhoy says:
May 26, 2014 at 1:30 pm (From yesterday)
So with three of the biggest teams in Scotland out of the top flight is it not time for ND to gain another bonus in renegotiating the TV deal..?
————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Over the next couple of weeks armageddon #2 – TV deal affected by loss of Hibs/Hearts from the SPFL. ND averts TV deal meltdown by negotiating a new contract clause for Scottish football tv deal opening up games in Scottish footballs’ 2 top leagues..
— An astute negotiator would have set the wheels in motion many weeks ago to mitigate any revenue loss in this possible scenario and to put a positive spin on this situation to open up the contract to ANY Scottish game when the TV companies pony up MORE for that benefit. However he now opens up the possibility of more money going back to the tv companies as the disgruntled fans of the big 3 in Div 2 lose interest with viewing figures taking a hit, ie, the Gantry charge back increases 😥
— Let’s see how ND tries to wriggle out of this.. Is it a standard £200k in his sky rocket any time he negotiates a contract for Scottish football endorsement. Would not surprise me.
JimBhoy says:
May 27, 2014 at 9:14 (REPOST new page came in as i posted)
May 26, 2014 at 1:30 pm (From yesterday)
So with three of the biggest teams in Scotland out of the top flight is it not time for ND to gain another bonus in renegotiating the TV deal..?
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Over the next couple of weeks armageddon #2 – TV deal affected by loss of Hibs/Hearts from the SPFL. ND averts TV deal meltdown by negotiating a new contract clause for Scottish football tv deal opening up games in Scottish footballs’ 2 top leagues..
– An astute negotiator would have set the wheels in motion many weeks ago to mitigate any revenue loss in this possible scenario and to put a positive spin on this situation to open up the contract to ANY Scottish game when the TV companies pony up MORE for that benefit. However he now opens up the possibility of more money going back to the tv companies as the disgruntled fans of the big 3 in Div 2 lose interest with viewing figures taking a hit, ie, the Gantry charge back increases 😥
– Let’s see how ND tries to wriggle out of this.. Is it a standard £200k in his sky rocket any time he negotiates a contract for Scottish football endorsement. Would not surprise me.
imBhoy says:
May 27, 2014 at 9:14 am
– Let’s see how ND tries to wriggle out of this.. Is it a standard £200k in his sky rocket any time he negotiates a contract for Scottish football endorsement. Would not surprise me.
======================================================
As I said in my post above I have no doubt Doncaster gets his bonus for taking the flak for OUR clubs who make these decisions. We must keep repeating: ‘The clubs make the decision’ until we fully understand ND is just an employee who does his employer’s bidding and is rewarded for it. It really is that simple.
We should be demanding transparency from our clubs as to how they voted and why. There may well be good reasons for some of the TV decisions but unless we are given the broad details of why decisions were arrived at then we will never know. Obviously there are possible issues with commercial confidentiality but I’m sure that doesn’t require a vow of Omerta from every single SPFL Club.
They are going to have to wake-up and understand that fans won’t sit back and keep taking it like in the old days.
Really if the Championship is such a wonderful place to be why would any club lucky enough to land there ever want to leave ❓
@Eco I think the opposite from McGhee, unchartered territory for sure but it could bring positives to Scottish football. Div 2 teams knowing they will face some of the big boys in championship if they get promoted, Championship teams outwith the big three will thrive, every game a cup tie, big scalp to be had, couple of new teams in the SPFL. Personally I think the next 2 seasons will be excellent for Scottish football and youth will get a chance as clubs know they must live within their means. Give the youngsters a chance.it can only benefit the national team as they gain experience and progress.
Really looking forward to the new season, moreso than I have for years. To McGhee how many rangers, Hibs or Hearts players have made the recent Scotland squad?
Tartanwulver says:
May 27, 2014 at 6:32 am
8 0 Rate This
ptd1978 says:
May 26, 2014 at 12:36 pm
At the level of European competition, money-spinning potential can trump sporting rules – the year after Liverpool won the Champions’ League, they finished one place too low in the English league to qualify the next year. A rule was hastily invented over the close season that the holders should get in, and was effective immediately – if memory serves, a team from the Euro boondocks was made to play an extra qualifier to free up a space, although whatever the mechanism was, it didn’t get much publicity. The lubrication of Liverpool’s access to the competition was simply taken as an entitlement. Football plus money minus integrity, the bane of the sport. Mind you, some of the bent ref stories from the seventies in Euro games show that the game has always had it’s share of bad ‘uns at all levels!
________________________
I believe it was the correct thing to do for sporting integrity. A club should be able to defend any cup it has won (assuming it is still in business).
A victory for football.
Now some big decisions in the green side of Edinburgh.
The play off second leg had one team who have learned from Spain that football is about keeping possession supporting each other and playing the ball on the deck with pace. To do that you need to have players who are comfortable on the ball, who trust in their skills and who are coached to do so all the time. Week in week out. Passing for the team from Hamilton looked easy and there were always options aplenty.
Great to watch a second level Scottish diddy team embracing the new type of football.
The other team looked like they had come out of the 70s playing on muddy heavy pitches and simply wanted to play the long ball all the time diagonally into the corners. Passing never looked easy. They looked scared in posession and leaden footed with a dirth of colleagues making easy angles in their over-rigid game plan.
Hibs looked wooden against a team from an allegedly lower standard of football.
It came down to a battle of coaches and one coach got it and one didn’t.
I personally think Petrie has done a wonderful historical job on the framework of the Easter Road club and I have also said on this blog that the help and support he gave to the family of the deceased Hibs youngster David Paul shows that he is a good guy, a really good guy.
But his achilles heel is his track record of appointing or approving and or supporting managers.
He and the Hibs family have been let down big time by Tel and I think he should bit the bullet and let the dinosaur that is Butcher depart asap.
I also think Mr Butcher should man up take his failure on the chin and walk with dignity rather than waiting for a compromise contract buy-out type offer to leave on his journey back to Caley Park.
As for McGhee’s comments: risible.
There are Clubs far more likely to produce Scottish talent currently than Hearts, Hibs and TRFC. The young Dundee Utd team, Hamilton’s youth (both past and present), to name two, all show that there is promise in the ranks.
The problem is not having three well supported clubs in the second tier, it is the standard of coaching combined with a decline in the levels of participation at youth level (the latter having many contributing factors).
FROM ET – INTERESTING
No coverage of Rangers league matches on ALBA
BBC ALBA are in talks with the SPFL over a bumper new TV deal to cover the Championship next season – but won’t get to screen any fixtures involving title favourites Rangers.
Chris Jack
Chris Jack Group Sports Writer
Tuesday 27/05/2014
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The make-up of Scotland’s second tier was confirmed on Sunday as Hibernian lost their Premiership play-off final to Hamilton Accies, with Terry Butcher’s side now dropping out of the top flight and into what will be our most competitive division next term.
Rangers will start the campaign as favourites for the Championship crown but with Hearts, their Edinburgh rivals and the likes of Falkirk and Queen of the South all eyeing promotion, the 10-team league will take on an added interest for viewers and punters.
At present, ALBA have rights to screen three live Premiership matches and another 35 games on a delayed transmission, as well as selected clashes in the Ramsdens Cup.
But SportTimes understands the new deal will see them show 16 Championship fixtures on top as those currently signed for.
There will be no Rangers league games shown, however, with the SPFL’s other broadcast partners, Sky Sports and BT Sport, retaining joint coverage of Ally McCoist’s side as they look to clinch their top-flight return.
BT have a deal to show 30 Premiership games plus 10 Rangers matches until 2017, while Sky screen 30 Premiership clashes and five games involving the Light Blues.
With Rangers, Hearts and Hibs all now involved in the Championship, it remains to be seen if the two main broadcasters come back to the table in a bid to strike a new contract to show more Rangers fixtures as the Championship gets set to take centre stage next term.
According to the Evening Times’ Chris Jack ( a Matthew Lindsay protege? ), the ‘championship’ will take centre stage next season. As we’ve heard from other sports hacks, he’s not the only one pushing this agenda, presumably as the Edinburgh clubs are there, along with Sevco.
Funnily enough, not one of them had much enthusiasm for the top division last season, even though both Hearts and Hibs were in it and facing superior opposition than they will next season, including of course the best side in the country, Celtic.
Surely they don’t think a league is any good unless it contains a club from Ibrox in it, do they?
As for the supposed new deal being ‘negotiated’ by Doncaster et al, let’s hope this time they will tell the TV companies that if they want more games it’ll cost them more money. Time to ‘grow a pair’ as they say.
Tartanwulver
Para Handy
From memory, UEFA had to intervene to ensure Liverpool played. Everton finished fourth and the premier league refused to break their own rules to pass them over in favour of Liverpool.
There was a similar incident in Spain before though. Real won the CL and failed to qualify the next season. I can’t remember who actually finished in the final qualifying spot, but that case the Spanish FA happily threw out their own rule book and dumped said team in favour of Real.
UEFA didn’t need to get involved to ensure their champions were in their competition, so they just stood by. They could have seen the need to change their own qualifying rules then, but didn’t. It was the EPL’s honesty which forced them to do that.
The above is a great example of UEFA sitting on their ar5e and letting national associations throw out the rule book without any regard to natural justice or sporting integrity.
I’ve lived in Spain for well over a year now and Real can comfortably match any assistance the SFA have given to Rangers, even in the last decade or so.
Barca are an interesting parallel with Celtic too. They are happy to gain the benefits of economically strangling other clubs alongside Real, but still get thrown under the bus by their own FA occasionally. (Many Barca fans feel the suspended punishment re the signing under 18s policy was taken to the Spanish FA and basically approved. The Spanish FA then defend or take responsibility for their own decision before UEFA). Meanwhile Real sign Bale, release plans to upgrade the Bernabeu and somehow still expect to pass UEFA’s FFP rules.
Spain is very lucky it’s much bigger than Scotland and has an ongoing record of coaching and development excellence in football that no other country in Europe can match. The way the Spanish FA operate, they’re lucky the standard of football isn’t similar to Scotland.
Love the quote at the end of the McGhee article:
‘So it’s all important, for the sake of the game, to promote it in a positive way. It doesn’t always come across that way.
‘Now, without the names of Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the division, I think it is lacking.’
So promoting it in a positive way… you think it is lacking Mark? Run that one by me again! 😯
PTD1978 @ 10:37am:
“There was a similar incident in Spain before though. Real won the CL and failed to qualify the next season. I can’t remember who actually finished in the final qualifying spot, but that case the Spanish FA happily threw out their own rule book and dumped said team in favour of Real.”
The overlooked club was Real Zaragoza, in 1999-2000.
ptd1978 says:
May 27, 2014 at 10:37 am
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Tartanwulver
Para Handy
From memory, UEFA had to intervene to ensure Liverpool played. Everton finished fourth and the premier league refused to break their own rules to pass them over in favour of Liverpool.
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I had forgotten the Spanish incident. I still think that the winner should automatically have the opportunity to defend their title (is this not the case for the World and European competitions?). More a case here of the rules being flawed (now where have we seen that before?).
WRT The wonderful new Championship in Scotland for next season. There will be an Edinburgh Derby. Thats Good. No Glasgow Derby. Not so Good. The Pemier Division, and it still is the PREM IER Division, regardless of what is about to be crammed down our collective throats, will see a return of the Dundee City Derby, an additional Tayside Derby, the return of the Lanarkshire Derby and of course the Glasgow Derby. An ever improving Aberdeen and Dundee Utd. and a very useful St Johnstone team and the ever constant Motherwell should ensure that the level of football in the PREMIER division will probably go up a notch. Celtic will win the League but not by the ease with which they did this season. This has all the makings of a great season for Scottish Football and should be pertrayed by the MSM and the blazers as such. The Championship will indeed be very competative but to paint it as the ‘best division in the land’ is just plain stupid. I see Alex McLeish says that Celtic may apply to join the Championship next season. This is an ex International Manager. Where do you start with that?
Look at the lower divisions in England and see a host of teams who were all top of the pile in their day. But their day has gone. They just make up the numbers now having found their level. It is called progress. It is what is happening in Scotland now. The league never lies as they say. How true.
IMO it is a dream come true for our SMSM that Hibs have been relegated. They bad mouthed the top league since the departure (as in dearly departed) of one club. The top league has the best teams, plays the best football, clubs are run on a sound financial footing and the season was really exiting and entertaining. If you asked any fan or club chairman in the Championship where they would like to ply their trade, I think without fear or favour they would say in the top league. There is no doubt the Championship will be exiting, but what if the fabric of society FC do not get promoted or make the play off (Armageddon?). The SMSM just wanted the proposed Armageddon scenario painted by our SFA away back in 2012, it did not happen and IMO the game is actually flourishing and it is killing the SMSM. You can see already the push for the Championship already from the SMSM, this will get worse nearer the new season. TV deals that can bring in more money is fine, but not the idea of swapping games from top league and more importantly we know this will financially aid one team more than most. Now we are in the position of not knowing if a certain team will financially be able to fulfill it’s fixtures for the season. If ST sales in Govan were high it would have been on the front pages of every red top, so we have to assume that they are low (estimates range from 5000 to 14,000). Say for talking sake the new Ibrox club cannot see out the season and go into Administration for the first time can you imagine the SMSM approach if the deduction of points comes into play and as the Championship is a close run thing and lo and behold the Govan club does not finish in the top 3, then will this be another Armageddon? Paper sales are declining and I for one would like the term Armageddon truly apply to the future of certain newspapers in this country.
ecobhoy says:
May 27, 2014 at 9:50 am
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FROM ET – INTERESTING ….
———–
How will this all look if one of the teams involved is no longer deemed to be a going concern? Armageddon III no doubt.
Yes, in reply to your earlier post, wasn’t it Peter Lawwell who accompanied Doncaster in TV negotiations last time? ND is an easy scapegoat, but he does not seem the sharpest knife in the drawer. Certainly not a man who should be collecting the now compulsory bonus these types seem to collect regardless of performance.
So lets take a few minutes to think about this.
A Heart of Midlothian, having to shed all their experienced high earners, having to field all their unproven youngsters due to catastrophic financial mismanagement in the last few years have been relegated with a group of young guys who have been thrown to the wolves far too early but have coped admirably.
A Hibernian side who have been questionably managed on the footballing side for a good few years now have been relegated after yet another managerial switch produced some of the worst football witnessed in the top flight for some time. They have already cleared out (or paved the way for release of) the majority of their experienced playing staff. Playing staff next year a complete unknown.
Potentially a ‘The Rangers’ side who might make it up from League 1. Financial meltdown like their predecessors and the state of their current squad very much a mystery. (Remember that by this point last season – wee scattercash had added about 8 or 9 names to the squadlist – even before the transfer embargo was lifted). Season ticket standoff at the OK Coral attracting all sorts of storm clouds.
Now if the ‘The Rangers’ side (putting aside the legal issues) resembled the one that had Laudrop, van Bronckhorst, Mols etc. and the Hearts side was the one that blazed a trail for 5 months under Burley and the Hibs side was perhaps one of the sides that played some silky stuff under Collins or Mixu – then we might have a league worth watching.
But it’s not those teams that are there. It’s the names of those teams. It’s shells of those clubs – all of which in the very early stages of a traumatic rebuilding. And while there is some interest in how all that will pan out, it is sheer and utter contempt that football people or media people make a case that this is more ‘exciting’ than watching the 12 clubs that have demonstrated the ability to play a much higher standard of football than the rest. The contempt for merit and recognition of recent achievement is staggering.
Following Sunday, I really can’t comprehend some of the articles that are surfacing already in the media. It doesn’t surprise me but it defies the apparent intelligence of some of the people involved so far.
Carfins Finest says:
May 27, 2014 at 11:07 am
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WRT The wonderful new Championship in Scotland for next season. There will be an Edinburgh Derby. Thats Good. No Glasgow Derby. Not so Good …
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Partick Thistle may wish to debate that assertion 🙂
If the SMSM and SFA spoke about the scenario and consequences of the liquidation of a football club as much as the term Armageddon (and funny enough the loss of the same football club) then we would have an even balanced point to debate but alas….
Taysider says:
May 27, 2014 at 8:55 am
While reading your excellent post I had decided to write, more or less, the following, but you beat me to it 😀
“The exciting season just concluded has been delivered by a league of 12, second league of 10 with a play off introduced. The evidence has been that this has worked! So how about seeing if the next few seasons shape up the same way before we start revisiting league reconstruction? I’m not convinced that a top flight of 16 teams would have generated anything like as compelling a narrative.”
I’ll leave your point re a top flight of 16, suffice to say this poster, who remembers the 18 team league very well, agrees with you, and instead just comment on the lack of media praise for the exciting season that’s just ended.
This is not new within the coverage of Scottish football and I’m sure it has a lot to do with it being easier, for a poor journalist, to write critically than it is to write positively, or at least it’s easier to sound clever when criticising. This might even explain some of what has been written about Neil Lennon, concentrating on his superficial flaws while ignoring what he has had to put up with. It’s easier to describe a man’s demeanour and criticise his post match comments than it is to explore the psychological effect of what Lennon has had to put up with and how he overcame it to produce a team that went so far in the Champions League. I’m not a fan of the public Neil Lennon (he’s never played for Hearts!) but I have nothing but admiration for the way he’s carried on under torrid circumstances that no manager has ever come close to facing in Britain. There is a big story there, that will probably remain unpublished. Anyway, I digress.
On media coverage of a great season that didn’t feature a ‘Rangers’.
I remember a story one Alec Cameron wrote (remember him? bet you wish you didn’t) extolling the virtues of a ‘strong Rangers’. I can’t remember the year but it was a few years after the ’85 – ’86 season, where the most dramatic end to a season was played out. The thrust of his story was that Hearts only got so close because there was no ‘strong’ Rangers involved and it was a very poor Celtic side. He ignored the fact that both Aberdeen and Dundee United were in the hunt for the title until the last couple of games and was only concerned with pointing out how poor a league it had been without that ‘strong Rangers’.
Now, as a Hearts supporter, who was at almost every game that season, including Dens Park 🙁 , that season holds a very bitter final memory, but even I have to admit it was incredibly exciting, amazing even. That a ‘respected’ journalist should write a piece belittling my team’s, and others’, performance made me very angry, but no internet blogs in those days so nowt to do about it. He was prepared to write it off just to bum up his favourite team, and to, no doubt, sell his rag to a drooling Ibrox faithful. He was so desperate to run down that ‘Rangers free’ title battle, involving 4 clubs, he missed out one very important factor in judging the quality of the Scottish League that season. The next season, with only one addition (Iain Ferguson), Dundee United made it all the way to the final of the UEFA Cup, beating a very strong Barcelona side home and away in the semi final. And, of course, Aberdeen had won the Cup Winners Cup only three years previously. Hardly the stuff of a poor quality league.
It would have been, one might think, quite easy to write, in glowing terms, about the excitement of a league without Rangers, but when that’s not part of your newspaper’s agenda… And we’ve just had an exciting season, without a Rangers. How long will it be until some ‘sports journalist’ writes about it in a positive way, rather than concentrating on the doom and gloom surrounding Hibs (not belittling the importance to Hibs fans of that matter) and also to have the guts to make the point that it’s happened without a ‘Rangers’ involved. Of course, that might lead to the question ‘Armageddon? What Armageddon?’, and the answer, ‘Without a ‘Rangers’, we’re further from Armageddon than ever before!’
While I agree with the thrust of this post, it’s worth noting that it is not necessarily the case that the pyramid cannot be leapfrogged.
My local non-league club King’s Lynn FC were wound up in November 2009 owing about 80 grand to HMRC. At the time they were in the Northern Premier League: tier 7 in the pyramid.
http://www.nonleague.co.uk/articles/english_pyramid.php
They reformed as King’s Lynn Town FC in Jan 2010. They applied for admission down the pyramid and were accepted into the UCL Premier Division at tier 9 in the pyramid for the next season. KLTFC’s crowds vary from 500-1200 depending on how they are doing and they take a significant away following (in non-league terms) so the other clubs at that level (where crowds are typically fewer than a 100) readily accepted them.
Having said all that, I can’t see it ever happening.