Armageddon? What Armageddon?

ByBig Pink

Armageddon? What Armageddon?

Now that we are at the end of the league season, and with respect to the job still to be done at Tannadice and McDiarmid Park, it seems like a good time for a post holocaust report.

Average Weekly Attendances SPL 2011-2014

Fig 1 Average Weekly Attendances SPL 2011-2014

Peppered around this page are three charts and a table* showing the attendance figures for the SPL in the last three seasons. A school kid could tell you that there is a positive trend in those charts and figures, but the people who run our national sport will look you straight in the eye and tell you “that can’t be right – Armageddon is coming!”

It is one of the most ridiculous and mendacious situations I have ever come across. The people who run our national game, aided and abetted by those in the MSM (sans the eye contact though) are actually trying to persuade us of how awful our game is and how unsustainable it will be in the absence of one, just one, club.

Think about that. The SFA and the SPFL trying to talk us out of supporting the game unless we all recognise the unique importance of one, just one, club. That is what has happened, no matter how they try to spin it. And despite evidence to the contrary contained in these figures, not one of them has admitted to an error, never mind the downright lies that they told to support the position they held, the one where anyone speaking of sporting integrity was mocked and ridiculed.

 

Whilst growing up as football supporter in the 60s, one of things I was constantly bombarded with via the medium of the tabloid newspapers was that football clubs should be grateful for the publicity afforded them via their back pages. These were probably reasonable claims, especially in the light of the relative lack of access to players and officials conceded to the hacks in those days, and the pre-eminent cultural position in which they helped to place football. Alongside that, the broadcast media, particularly Archie Macpherson’s Sportscene and Arthur Montford’s Scotsport could be relied on to talk the game up. Of course, there was something in it for the papers – sales. The more column inches devoted to the national sport, the further northward their sales, and consequently advertising revenues travelled.

ex Celtic & Rangers

Fig 2 Avg. Attendances excl Celtic & Rangers

The situation was further cemented by the fact that the press in that ante-interweb era held a monopoly over the exchange and dissemination of information. That symbiotic, win-win relationship between football and the press was as much a part of football reality as the Hampden Roar. It also endured for decades. The press would talk up the game to such an extent that folk often remarked that they hadn’t realised how much they had enjoyed a particular match until they had read Malky Munro or Hughie Taylor’s report the next day. Archie Macpherson is on record as having said the same thing about legendary commentator David Francey, “It was a much better game to listen to than to see!”

Today that symbiosis is broken. The press themselves, in print and in front of microphones consistently belittle the product, talk of crises and Armageddon, of our own version of the Eisenhower domino effect of clubs going to the wall one after another.

Aided and abetted by the two chief bureaucrats in charge of Scottish football, Stuart Regan and Neil Doncaster, who have consistently helped to hammer home the message that Scottish football is not good enough, and cannot sustain itself financially without Rangers, a club that could not itself sustain itself financially to the extent that it is being liquidated.

At a time when Scottish football was clearly in crisis, and badly in need of sponsorship which could mitigate the effects of that crisis, the press and the authorities sought to strengthen their own negotiating hand by making negative claims about the state of the game which never came to pass, and for which they have never apologised. The actual situation, which would not have been hard to predict had anyone actually bothered to analyse the business of Scottish football, is summarised quite easily by saying this;

  1. Since Rangers’ liquidation and subsequent absence from the top league, the average home attendance of the other clubs has INCREASED overall (See Fig 2).
  2. In this season, the other clubs have added 50,000 fans to home attendances compared to 2011-12 (the last year Rangers were in competition).
  3. In that time the league has been won (twice) by Celtic, and the other honours have been claimed by St, Mirren, Aberdeen, Celtic and (either) Dundee United or St Johnstone.
  4. In that time, both Dunfermline Athletic and Hearts (who both had historical financial problems) entered – and exited – administration after fan-led buyouts.
  5. Dundee United have cleared off their bank debt.
  6. Kilmarnock have restructured their bank debt, freeing the club from a precarious long-term situation.
  7. League reconstruction has allowed some money to trickle down to the second tier clubs in an attempt to mitigate the immediate effects of relegation and to reward ambitious clubs.

table

Looking at the table of attendances above, it is pretty clear that immediately upon Rangers exit, the overall figures took a dip. However there was little difference the in the figures if you leave Rangers out of the equation (Fig 3) – despite Celtic’s attendance taking a hit that year (down by around 5,000 per home match).

Taking Celtic out of the calculations, it is clear that there is a 6,000 uplift in this average (Fig 2).

It is still undeniable that less people overall are watching football (Fig 1), but the trend is upward if one leaves the Ibrox club out of the picture.

Furthermore, this statistic exposes the double edged sword that is retention of home gates. The fact that gates are not shared is predicated upon the notion that the bigger clubs do not depend on the smaller clubs for income. And since the smaller clubs are no longer recipients of big club largesse, their fortunes are not affected, at least not as much as was suggested by the Regans, Doncasters and Traynors of this parish. The “Trickle-Down” theory of Reganomics said otherwise – but clearly and demonstrably it was wrong.

The abandonment of gate sharing has made Scottish football less interdependent than it once was, but the irony is that it works both ways. There is hardly a club in the country that depends on Rangers for their own existence, and here is the news; small clubs are no longer financially dependent on the former Old Firm.

Excluding Celtic

Fig 3 Excluding Celtic

The fact, that is F-A-C-T, is that Scottish Football attendances in the top division are on the increase. The absence of Rangers has made no appreciably negative difference to any other club, far less caused a catastrophe of biblical proportions.

Even if the fools who were the harbingers of our doom were simply guilty of making an honest mistake, it is clear that they are uncontaminated with the slightest notion of how the game in this country operates. The Old Firm may be dead, but the OF prism is still being peered through by Stuart Regan, Neil Doncaster and the vast majority of print journalists. The latter who failed to honour that age-old football/press symbiosis because they believed, erroneously that David Murray’s dinner table was the hand that has fed them for over a century.

The irony is that as job opportunities diminish in the print sector, so too will the fine dining and patronage. I think they call that evolution.

 

Two years ago, in the wake of the fans’ season ticket revolt which saw the new Rangers forced to apply for membership of the league and begin at the bottom, those same MSM hacks taunted fans about putting their money where their mouths were. The fans responded splendidly as our statistics demonstrate, but typically there has been no recognition of this either at Hampden or in the media.

And the message from those fans is this: Scottish football is not dying. Not any more. At least not as surely as it was when David Murray started to choke the life out of it in the late 80s. The supporters are returning in numbers to see a competition untainted by the outrageous liberty-taking and rule-breaking of the last couple of decades, and all but one club has emerged from the mire of the Moonbeam Millennium looking forward to a new era.

If authorities allow the new era to thrive by restoring sporting integrity to the agenda, then the numbers, like the opportunities available to more and more clubs, will grow. The question is … will they?

Admittedly, these figures, like any set of statistics, can be cherry-picked to suit almost any argument that you care to construct. The fact remains though, that whilst it would be fanciful and ridiculously over-optimistic to claim that they bear witness to a burgeoning industry, it is utterly dishonest to conclude that they represent financial Armageddon. Armageddon? Aye right!

* Source ESPN          

About the author

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

2,810 Comments so far

ecobhoyPosted on1:53 pm - May 30, 2014


Donegaltim says:
May 30, 2014 at 1:03 pm

With Torrejohnbhoy’s post revealing scribd docs, the one I took interest in was the forced appointment of Easedale to the board. This wasn’t a request but an order. Now the accepted norm wrt the two brothers is one of dyed in the wool rangers men. I would beg to differ and suggest they were supporters of their deep river team playing out of Cappielow.

Going from snippets in my grey matter, Blue Pitch under Houssami placed them onto the board which in effect makes them nothing more than spiv placemen. They are then assumed to buy Greens shares but is there any proof that the transaction occurred? Could we assume, Houssami moves Green on as he is no longer effective because of his big gob and puts Easdale in.

If this is correct, Blue Pitch rule and call the tune. The Easdales are still Morton fans and simply do the bidding for Blue Pitch and will be royally rewarded for keeping their gobs shut, something which Mr Green found impossible.

Over to you Eco.
============================
I’m afraid without the assistance of Lobby Dosser and his trusty steed – in case a speedy exit is required – I would be loth to be as brave as Mr Houston on these matters.

I have noted the comments of many Bears since the Eeasdale rise to prominence and without exception IIRC they have suggested that there was no prior connection with Rangers that they are aware of.

There have also been other posts from Morton fans claiming that they support their local team. I am in no position to contradict or confirm what they claim.

I really don’t know what to believe and normally I take people on face value and believe what they say unless/until I have concrete evidence to the contrary

However I find it difficult to understand two such important Rangers shareholders and Board members from the west of Scotland – allegedly staunch Rangers supporters albeit for an indeterminate period of time afaik – are prepared to be the mouthpiece of anonymous offshore investors.

I have to ask myself – what’s in it for them? What are they getting out of it or what have they been promised, if anything?

There is very little that unite the disparate groupings of Rangers supporters but one thing they all want to know is who are behind the secret shareholdings?

So personally I find the Easdale position doesn’t sit well with their allegedly long-term support of Rangers and if the edifice comes crashing down and the mystery shareholders depart from Ibrox – whither the Easdales? Cappielow perhaps?

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Para HandyPosted on1:56 pm - May 30, 2014


neepheid says:
May 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm
3 0 Rate This

http://www.ayrunitedfc.co.uk/to-our-support/

Worth a read, I think. Nice to see a club communicate with its fans, if nothing else.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lachlan Cameron is to be commended for this forthright, honest and in some areas damning piece of communication.

Ayr United are not alone in this situation with probably the majority of Clubs at that level struggling and relying on directors to keep spending their money. I know that certainly in the past, football boards have been reluctant to make matters such as this public, fearing that competitors will be able to use the information (I was never given an answer as to what they would use it for from any director I have asked).

It is a strange business world is football. Boots don’t need Superdrug but Ayr United, as do they all, need the other clubs around them.

Good luck to The Honest Men (and to Marko, a firm favourite at Firhill), always one of my favourite, real football grounds and a cracking away trip.

You can only hope that the local media in Ayrshire pick this up and that the fans are supportive.

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neepheidPosted on2:09 pm - May 30, 2014


UEFA licencing-

http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2014/05/parma-lose-final-appeal-for-uefa-licence/

Parma Lose Final Appeal For UEFA Licence

Parma have lost their final appeal for a UEFA licence and will not be participating in the Europa League during the 2014-15 season.

The Crociati’s third and last appeal to obtain a licence to compete in Europe next term was turned down by the FIGC on Thursday due to the club’s tax problems despite their insistence that all debt had been taken care of, as they had reportedly owed around €300,000 in income tax.

A brief statement was released after the FIGC high court decided their final verdict regarding Parma’s appeal.

“The high court of sports justice has rejected the appeal presented by Parma against the FIGC over the decision to refuse them a UEFA licence for the 2014-15 season.”

Torino, who fell short in their race to make the Europa League on the final day of the 2013-14 season after a 2-2 draw against Fiorentina, will now be playing the tournament next season with the Ducali officially ruled out.

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Matty RothPosted on2:11 pm - May 30, 2014


neepheid says:
May 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm
3 0 Rate This

http://www.ayrunitedfc.co.uk/to-our-support/

Worth a read, I think. Nice to see a club communicate with its fans, if nothing else.

===============================

A Chairman who’s views might be of interest for a future podcast?

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ecobhoyPosted on2:12 pm - May 30, 2014


Thinking on the Rangers North America jaunt I wonder – particulalrly in view of the level of clubs involved – whether this could all be a prelude to big moonbeam announcements about their American Academy set-up.

Seems to me that they have already been setting the scene on Bear fan sites with posters warning that the boycotters could lead to Murray Park and Ibrox being lost because STs aren’t being sold.

This for me sets the scenario where the Board can justify the sale of Auchenhowie by blaming it on the rebel supporters. Obviously the Board will raise some dosh and be able to cut costs quite effectively.

So the American Academies will be lauded as the modern way forward with Murray Park an outmoded and now disposable operation. Indeed the American Model after it has been trialled as a test bed will be replicated on a worldwide basis which is great news for the 500 million global support (OK Neepheid 😳 )

The only flaw I see in the system is what is Rangers going to do with all this young talent it’s developing – they certainly are unlikely to get much in the way of first team playing time 🙄

However it will never come to pass but might just prove to be enough of a diversion to justify flogging-off Murray Park which I’m sure will be accompanied by cast-iron or possibly brass-neck assurances that Ibrox is ‘safe’. We’ll see :mrgreen:

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cosmichaggisPosted on2:16 pm - May 30, 2014


Great paragraph from Lachlan Cameron, chairman of Ayr United, my favourite bit. He’s a star. I second getting his input on a podcast.

“I can respect that and firmly believe that every supporter has the right to decide what they do with their hard earned money. Supporting Ayr is a choice and often it’s a tough choice. Glory seasons are few and far between for teams like us. It would be easy for any of us to decide to jump on the glory train and support the green or blue half of Glasgow or even scrap Scottish club football altogether and sit in front of a television and watch games from down south or the continent. This isn’t what supporting Ayr United is about and I for one am glad that I support a team that doesn’t have the chips stacked in their favour. Teams like us are the lifeblood of the game, it’s real and it’s a passion and an existence that none of the supporters of those “big” teams will ever have despite what Stewart Regan and the former SPL think”.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:35 pm - May 30, 2014


Matty Roth says:
May 30, 2014 at 2:11 pm
neepheid says:
May 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm

http://www.ayrunitedfc.co.uk/to-our-support/

Worth a read, I think. Nice to see a club communicate with its fans, if nothing else.
===============================
A Chairman who’s views might be of interest for a future podcast?
——————————————————
What a refreshing, honest and courageous communication – It’s a long time since I saw what I unashamedly regard as ‘old school principles’ being employed.

I wonder how many other clubs can say that they have communicated so openly with their fans. Certainly would make good Podcast material IMO.

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wottpiPosted on2:45 pm - May 30, 2014


neepheid says:
May 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm
3 0 Rate This

http://www.ayrunitedfc.co.uk/to-our-support/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fairly comprehensive review on the all aspects of the club and the direction it is taking, all produced from the other side of the planet, probably within no more than a week from the end of the season and from a guy who is £100,000 out of pocket.

Just out of interest I quickly transferred the piece into WORD and did a word count.

Result 3,610

How many words do you think were in the Business Review and Strategic Plan Update that took 120 days to write by a man who is reportedly on £315k a year and may be on a 100% bonus and no doubt supported by a team of backroom gurus covering all aspects of running a football club?

Answer 2790.

It appears you don’t always get more bang for your bucks.

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DonegaltimPosted on2:49 pm - May 30, 2014


Eco, re; above. More to do with your previous posts on Houssami and Blue Pitch on Random Thoughts than the Eastdales.

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smartie1947Posted on2:50 pm - May 30, 2014


TRFC’s first match on their North American odyssey is against Ventura County Fusion at a local stadium with a capacity of 5,000.
What will make it an extremely unusual event for TRFC is that it is “generously sponsored” by a local bank, Coast Capital Savings.
Imagine having to travel halfway round the globe until you find a financial institution prepared to have anything to do with you.

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MartinPosted on2:52 pm - May 30, 2014


With John ‘bomber’ Brown dropping off a petition organised by the Sons of Struth it’s good to note that dissent among the Rangers fan base continues.

It’s easy to dismiss their likelihood of success but I happen to favour those who in spite of the odds against them continue to work for something they feel strongly about.

In this instance their chances of actually achieving anything are to a large extent hampered by an inability to persuade enough Rangers fans to break with a debilitating reluctance to turn an apparent widespread disaffection with events at their club into a more useful unified rebellion.

The fans who might best be described as the ‘pay up and take what comes’ fraternity might find themselves in a place called ‘rightful’ a few years down the line. It’s a hopeful and entirely passive notion and one which requires a substantial ability to ignore the cold hard facts of administration and liquidation.

Events which ought to be uncomfortable reminders of just what can happen while you avert your gaze and hope for the best.

I don’t mean to suggest for a moment that Rangers fans could have had a decisive say in events of the past or in those that affect the club they supports’ future. Given the numbers however the potential for having an impact should not be dismissed.

A genuine question to Rangers supporting posters on this site, or anyone with a view. Why is the Rangers fans rebellion so limited at a time when their hard eared cash gives them so much power?

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BroguesRoguesAndILikeThePoguesPosted on3:01 pm - May 30, 2014


I can no longer support this site.
I will not be back.

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coineanachantaighePosted on3:22 pm - May 30, 2014


neepheid says:
May 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm
http://www.ayrunitedfc.co.uk/to-our-support/
Worth a read, I think. Nice to see a club communicate with its fans, if nothing else.
===============================

It’s great that they actually tell the fans exactly what they expect from the manager – and also being clear about the financial situation.

One thing that struck me in the aims was the implementation of an attractive style of football. Easier said than done of course. My own club put this in place as an aim a few seasons back – I’d say it was hit and miss for a couple of seasons but finally they got the team together who could do it and we’re now in the top league.

But regardless of that the thing is I think that some of the smaller clubs like ourselves are coming to realise that if they want to keep fans turning up they need to give them a product they’ll want to come back and see.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on3:24 pm - May 30, 2014


14 June 2012 BBC
Mr Green said in a statement: “Following the formal decision of the creditors’ meeting at Ibrox Stadium today, the consortium I represent has fulfilled its agreement with the administrators and has completed the acquisition of the business and assets of The Rangers Football Club plc.
“The transfer of the business and assets to a new company structure has taken effect immediately and the new company is The Rangers Football Club.
“An application has already been made by the company to register with the Scottish Football Association and to participate in the SPL.”
Statement by the Smith Consortium
“His group was now calling on the Green consortium to “step aside” and allow his group to proceed “in the best interests of the creditors, the employees, the fans and the various other stakeholders of Rangers Football Club”.
“However, our overriding objective is to ensure that the stadium, the history and everything else magical about Rangers Football Club is protected and nurtured back to good health and provide a platform for Rangers for generations to come.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So far so good
Except
D&P were legally committed to sell the assets to Sevco 5088 and only to Sevco 5088 in the event of a failed CVA for RFC
and Sevco 5088 had a share capital of £1
We now know
1 Green claimed to have been the sole owner of Sevco 5088, the company that bought the assets with borrowed money (………… this ownership is disputed by Whyte and Earley)
2. Having borrowed the purchase price of £5.5m Green must have arranged for Sevco 5088 to bear a debt of £5.5m .
The alternative is implausible
i.e. that the Spivs who put up the £5.5m transferred £5.5m to Sevco 5088 with no security
Most Likely
Sevco 5088 legally acquired the assets simultaneously with a debt of £5.5m
From an accounting standpoint the books of Sevco 5088 balanced £5.5m of debt against the assets
Which leaves the thorny problem of the intangible assets which Green claims were bought for £1

Question
Did ownership of the intangible assets really move directly from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland ?
Or
Could ownership of the intangible assets have moved from Sevco 5088 to an offshore entity?
An offshore entity that promptly leased these intangible assets to Sevco Scotland for an onerous annual licence fee?
Thus re-uniting the physical assets with the intangible assets but at the cost of an annual charge in perpetuity?
If so
Is leasing of intangible assets one of the onerous contracts that cannot be shed even if TRFC is put into Admin or liquidated?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Because
If this is true
The business and physical assets of TRFC cannot be bought without an agreement to buy (or continue to licence) the intangible assets from the real owner
Since
The alternative is to start a new club from scratch which makes clear from the outset that it does not have any entitlement to the RFC brand and history

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Para HandyPosted on4:01 pm - May 30, 2014


BroguesRoguesAndILikeThePogues says:
May 30, 2014 at 3:01 pm
5 6 Rate This

I can no longer support this site.
I will not be back.
————————-
Make sure you pick up your toys on the way out… 😛

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on4:06 pm - May 30, 2014


Goosy,
I seem to recall a statement from Green when the Sevco Scotland name was registered on the pretext that TRFC had to be registered in scotland to play here.
Can’t remember the exact wording but i’m sure Green stated that “certain assets” had been transferred to TRFC.Thought that strange at the time as it implied that not all the assets were now with TRFC.I thought maybe he’d transferred the club but not the properties.Seems he may have kept the brand plus some other stuff.

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on4:14 pm - May 30, 2014


GoosyGoosy says:
May 30, 2014 at 3:24 pm

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Because
If this is true
The business and physical assets of TRFC cannot be bought without an agreement to buy (or continue to licence) the intangible assets from the real owner
Since
The alternative is to start a new club from scratch which makes clear from the outset that it does not have any entitlement to the RFC brand and history
=======================
Sounds reasonable GG.

Whilst I can’t specifically vouch for the mechanics of the set-up, I agree that a long-term contract which would survive an admin could be a lease type arrangement for intangibles/IP rights ?

A finance lease for 20 years – and mibbees with an option to buy at the end – at an unfair/stupid price too?

But if it’s leasing/licensing over a contracted long-term period, then the notes to the TRFC/RIFC accounts would have to disclose this liability, I would expect in some detail, [any auditors here who can add to this ?]

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sickofitallPosted on4:58 pm - May 30, 2014


I came home last night , up at Coocaddens for another passport. After picking it up was heading for a lunch in the wee Italian next door to Crockets, when I saw the bold Bomber approach. I stopped him, and asked him that I heard he was back involved, and was he back giving speeches from the stadium steps, “what’s going on John?” says I , with a blue motied baseball cap on, and I’m sure he thought I was a hun, despite the Zenit bunnet.
“I was delivering 7000 signatures from the fans to the board” he said. “What’s really going on?”
“Murray Park is already sold” he said “we’re trying to save Ibrox” “We can only stop that if we get the board out, they will stop at nothing”
“Thanks for the info” says I.
Straight from the horses mouth. About 90 minutes ago.
Edited by Wee Red, 36 minutes ago.
Taken from kerrydale steet

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twopandaPosted on5:25 pm - May 30, 2014


GoosyGoosy says: at 3:24 pm

Given our glimpses of their MO – tip of iceberg stuff – anything’s possible.
It does appear that the IP / Brand have been distanced.
Green did say he had `bought` the history. Green was careful and deliberate with public remarks.

Let’s try this – D&P had an unsellable entity without CW shares / security. Miller categorically wouldn`t play with CW. Without those CW securities – it was straight liquidation. CW couldn`t re-start the thing due to SFA ban. CW needed a partnership – tried Brian Kennedy. Then, Green came out of nowhere. The CVA lark bought time to cobble up a deal to keep the show on the road.

As if HMRC would approve that CVA – CW would have been 85% owner of the oldco under a CVA – hardly a fresh start – and;
Why on earth would anyone put up 8.5m if the final legal owner via oldco – with history – was with a 85% CW share?
Or 5.5m for that matter?

On 13 May 2012 – On any suggestion of a previous connection, Green said: “It was complete rubbish. I met Craig Whyte for the very first time a week last Tuesday in London.” [2 May 2012]

From CH – Sevco5088 activated 4 May 2012 – CG as director – as an ENGLISH Company.

Was there a deal or understanding of some sorts? – there was the confidential [why confidential] terms letter reported by Duff and Phelps within the sevco5088 binding irrevocable contract. At a later time the whatever was really `sold` went via D&P to sevco SCOTLAND. It was all unclear what really happened at the time. Never a satisfactory answer. How could they sell assets without CW participation on some level?

Then, Interestingly, LH mentioned `Conflict of Interests`- got a confidential report from D&P – and as far as I know – D&P have not been discharged as admins?? Could LH have known something we had no awareness of at the time?
Later – We all learned of the `Shafted ‘remark – and the Tapes – then the signatures stuff etc. – then the LBA

So what’s new?
RTC first brought my attention to the legal term `Mens rea`
– Applicable under English Law more than Scots Law – In Scotland it is very difficult to prosecute.
Scots Law limited in sevco5088 affairs – English Law limited on sevcoScotland.

An impasse for further action? – seems to be
This fits with the distancing MO theory speculation Goosey

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twopandaPosted on5:25 pm - May 30, 2014


GoosyGoosy says: at 3:24 pm

Given our glimpses of their MO – tip of iceberg stuff – anything’s possible.
It does appear that the IP / Brand have been distanced.
Green did say he had `bought` the history. Green was careful and deliberate with public remarks.

Let’s try this – D&P had an unsellable entity without CW shares / security. Miller categorically wouldn`t play with CW. Without those CW securities – it was straight liquidation. CW couldn`t re-start the thing due to SFA ban. CW needed a partnership – tried Brian Kennedy. Then, Green came out of nowhere. The CVA lark bought time to cobble up a deal to keep the show on the road.

As if HMRC would approve that CVA – CW would have been 85% owner of the oldco under a CVA – hardly a fresh start – and;
Why on earth would anyone put up 8.5m if the final legal owner via oldco – with history – was with a 85% CW share?
Or 5.5m for that matter?

On 13 May 2012 – On any suggestion of a previous connection, Green said: “It was complete rubbish. I met Craig Whyte for the very first time a week last Tuesday in London.” [2 May 2012]

From CH – Sevco5088 activated 4 May 2012 – CG as director – as an ENGLISH Company.

Was there a deal or understanding of some sorts? – there was the confidential [why confidential] terms letter reported by Duff and Phelps within the sevco5088 binding irrevocable contract. At a later time the whatever was really `sold` went via D&P to sevco SCOTLAND. It was all unclear what really happened at the time. Never a satisfactory answer. How could they sell assets without CW participation on some level?

Then, Interestingly, LH mentioned `Conflict of Interests`- got a confidential report from D&P – and as far as I know – D&P have not been discharged as admins?? Could LH have known something we had no awareness of at the time?
Later – We all learned of the `Shafted ‘remark – and the Tapes – then the signatures stuff etc. – then the LBA

So what’s new?
RTC first brought my attention to the legal term `Mens rea`
– Applicable under English Law more than Scots Law – In Scotland it is very difficult to prosecute.
Scots Law limited in sevco5088 affairs – English Law limited on sevcoScotland.

An impasse for further action? – seems to be
This fits with the distancing MO theory speculation Goosey

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on5:26 pm - May 30, 2014


Some tweets from earlier for those interested:

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 3h

I am hearing that the operating costs of the big screens that Charlie Green bought for Ibrox are now proving unaffordable.

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 3h

I am hearing that there is a substantial “To Do” list at Ibrox for it to be ready for the Commonwealth Games Rugby Sevens. Over 60 items…

Chris mck ‏@Chrismck3 May 27

@Pmacgiollabhain Heard today fire safety inspection 4 Ibrox 4 commonwealth last week.Only 60 fails that need fixing

Chris mck ‏@Chrismck3 2h

@FAOchris @TheClumpany 1/2 from source inside council 60 fails on fire safety.cant believe stadium passed rest of checks so total 60+

Chris mck ‏@Chrismck3 2h

@FAOchris @TheClumpany 2/2 No cash parted with till stadium handover.Other venues being considered.checks for 3rd div not same as 4 CGs!

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scottcPosted on5:35 pm - May 30, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
May 30, 2014 at 4:06 pm

Goosy,
I seem to recall a statement from Green when the Sevco Scotland name was registered on the pretext that TRFC had to be registered in scotland to play here.
Can’t remember the exact wording but i’m sure Green stated that “certain assets” had been transferred to TRFC.Thought that strange at the time as it implied that not all the assets were now with TRFC.I thought maybe he’d transferred the club but not the properties.Seems he may have kept the brand plus some other stuff.

The Scottish registered company excuse was always a load of rubbish though. You just need to point out Berwick Rangers as proof.

BERWICK RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY
Company #:509064 (in England)
Est: 21 June 1952

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scottcPosted on5:35 pm - May 30, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 30, 2014 at 1:53 pm

There have also been other posts from Morton fans claiming that they support their local team. I am in no position to contradict or confirm what they claim.

I really don’t know what to believe and normally I take people on face value and believe what they say unless/until I have concrete evidence to the contrary

They were certainly involved in sponsorship and big Sandy certainly looks happy enough in this picture

http://kennyramsay.photoshelter.com/image/I0000Z6pBZNg1w_M

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Paulmac2Posted on6:16 pm - May 30, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
May 30, 2014 at 7:13 am
………………………….

If true…how much might Ticketus be extracting from current ST’s as payback for their intitial outlay?

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Paulmac2Posted on6:25 pm - May 30, 2014


sickofitall says:
May 30, 2014 at 4:58 pm

“I was delivering 7000 signatures from the fans to the board” he said. “What’s really going on?”
“Murray Park is already sold” he said “we’re trying to save Ibrox”
……………………………….

Again….if true..a big if…that will be over 1 million a month knocked off monthly running costs…and a chunk of money as a one off income…one would assume from an asset sale…

I have my doubts…

But lets say it is true…who has been notified of such a sale?…Who has bought it?..who agreed to sell it?…how much changed hands?…will the club continue to use the facility?…and at what rental cost?

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Cluster OnePosted on7:25 pm - May 30, 2014


ecobhoy says:

May 30, 2014 at 9:22 am
There is no barrier to Craig Houston or any other Rangers supporter posting on this site.

Would a John Brown Podcast….. bring Craig Houston or any other Rangers supporters to this site? This could be a way for Rangers supporters to have their say on some of Mr Brown’s thoughts or his view of events at ibrox or the game in general (Would he do it, or would TSFM ask). Or am i so far left field it would have been better not to mention it

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twopandaPosted on7:31 pm - May 30, 2014


I think it’s worth a gentle reminder
Green satisfied the SFA requirements of Fit and Proper Person, with business plan and financial projections material – and no doubt the accreditations of all his business accomplices – in the granting of a new membership and license.
He then went on to face SFA charges of disrepute.
Now there`s an unholy mess – that arguably eclipses anything before
I`m at a loss to see how the SFA can justify their actions – and later non-actions
Or explain their non-explanation of events
Guardians of the Game? Mission Statement? – It’s somewhat pathetic.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on7:40 pm - May 30, 2014


Cluster One says:
May 30, 2014 at 7:25 pm

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ecobhoy says:

_____________________________________

Not a bad idea at all. Don’t ask don’t get.
I think bomber gave a good account of himself to Tom english on shortbread.
I’d be very interested to hear what he had to say wrt the TRFC situation as a whole. I strongly suspect I wouldn’t agree with very much of it, but I’d certainly deem him worthy of a platform.
An interesting psyche I have no doubt.

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twopandaPosted on8:39 pm - May 30, 2014


JB has a voice to be heard – he may be a RFC nutcase as her indoors – but true and honest IMO

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ecobhoyPosted on10:16 pm - May 30, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
May 30, 2014 at 7:40 pm
Cluster One says:
May 30, 2014 at 7:25 pm

ecobhoy says:
_____________________________________
Not a bad idea at all. Don’t ask don’t get. I think bomber gave a good account of himself to Tom english on shortbread.

I’d be very interested to hear what he had to say wrt the TRFC situation as a whole. I strongly suspect I wouldn’t agree with very much of it, but I’d certainly deem him worthy of a platform.
An interesting psyche I have no doubt.
====================
Hello ecobhoy here – why is my moniker attached to this post as I don’t think I have made any comment on JB ❓

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ecobhoyPosted on10:22 pm - May 30, 2014


Paulmac2 says:
May 30, 2014 at 6:25 pm

…will the club continue to use the facility?…and at what rental cost?
——————————————–
There might well be no difference in rental cost – just a difference in the recipient ❗

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ecobhoyPosted on10:32 pm - May 30, 2014


Paulmac2 says:
scottc says:
May 30, 2014 at 5:35 pm
ecobhoy says:
May 30, 2014 at 1:53 pm

There have also been other posts from Morton fans claiming that they support their local team. I am in no position to contradict or confirm what they claim.

I really don’t know what to believe and normally I take people on face value and believe what they say unless/until I have concrete evidence to the contrary
———————————
They were certainly involved in sponsorship and big Sandy certainly looks happy enough in this picture

http://kennyramsay.photoshelter.com/image/I0000Z6pBZNg1w_M
===============================================
Well as I say – I take people at face value and I would assume that the Easdales on this evidence appear to be Morton supporters. Although. to be fair, they might have a split personality and also support Rangers. After all the colours are the same 😈

Perhaps they don’t support Morton and are only using an advertising opportunity for McGills – yea well perhaps pigs can fly 🙄

I suppose we must all be Craig Houston on this one ❗

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ecobhoyPosted on10:46 pm - May 30, 2014


Cluster One says:
May 30, 2014 at 7:25 pm
ecobhoy says:
May 30, 2014 at 9:22 am

There is no barrier to Craig Houston or any other Rangers supporter posting on this site.
——————————————————-
Would a John Brown Podcast….. bring Craig Houston or any other Rangers supporters to this site? This could be a way for Rangers supporters to have their say on some of Mr Brown’s thoughts or his view of events at ibrox or the game in general (Would he do it, or would TSFM ask). Or am i so far left field it would have been better not to mention it
————————————————————–
Perhaps you could explain what is currently preventing any Rangers supporters from commenting on anything at all on this site as long as they comply with the mod policies ❗

If you go and look on the Darkside there are many comments on Mr Brown’s position if it is a matter of interest for you. I think Rangers supporters with any observations on Mr Browns comments not only have plenty of opportunities to air their views but are currently doing so.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:54 pm - May 30, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
May 30, 2014 at 5:26 pm
Some tweets from earlier for those interested:

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 3h

I am hearing that the operating costs of the big screens that Charlie Green bought for Ibrox are now proving unaffordable.

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 3h

I am hearing that there is a substantial “To Do” list at Ibrox for it to be ready for the Commonwealth Games Rugby Sevens. Over 60 items…

Chris mck ‏@Chrismck3 May 27

@Pmacgiollabhain Heard today fire safety inspection 4 Ibrox 4 commonwealth last week.Only 60 fails that need fixing

Chris mck ‏@Chrismck3 2h

@FAOchris @TheClumpany 1/2 from source inside council 60 fails on fire safety.cant believe stadium passed rest of checks so total 60+

Chris mck ‏@Chrismck3 2h

@FAOchris @TheClumpany 2/2 No cash parted with till stadium handover.Other venues being considered.checks for 3rd div not same as 4 CGs!
__________________________________
Many Bears I know including some who work in security have told me they are ashamed at the state Ibrox has been allowed to get into.

Cosmetics are one thing but Public Safety is another and it should be paramount ❗

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twopandaPosted on11:01 pm - May 30, 2014


Eco – `Darkside` compromised by sustained spiv cheerleaders [eg 5 posts] – a Dirty War
You’re spot on re Ibrox maintenance

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Cluster OnePosted on11:25 pm - May 30, 2014


ecobhoy says:

May 30, 2014 at 10:46 pm
Cluster One says:
May 30, 2014 at 7:25 pm
Perhaps you could explain what is currently preventing any Rangers supporters from commenting on anything at all on this site.
(I have no idea why they do not comment on this site. My comment for a JB podcast was just a suggestion that more rangers fans may comment if they new a rangers legend had taken part in a podcast on TSFM as i have read comments that not many do take part on this site) . It was just an idea.
As for the Darkside best not go there, to scary

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John ClarkPosted on11:38 pm - May 30, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
May 30, 2014 at 5:26 pm
‘…Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 3h
I am hearing that there is a substantial “To Do” list at Ibrox for it to be ready for the Commonwealth Games Rugby Sevens. Over 60 items…’
————
Never fear! I have the strongest assurance from the office of the Minister for CG and Sport that there will be absolutely no way the Rugby 7s spectating public will be at any risk on July 26th/27th! And, of Course, I believe every word of a written communication emanating from a government Minister’s ‘writer of replies to members of the public who have the cheek to ask for information’.!!
Seriously, though,if what PMcG has heard is true, it is actually quite reassuring that safety checks are indeed being carried out and faults/weaknesses identified.
I think it unlikely that any Health and Safety building inspector, crowd control expert, or Fire/Ambulance/Police Chief will sign off any part of the stadium or approaches to the stadium if there is the least possibility that he(in this post, ‘he’ is to be read as including ‘she’) might end up trying to explain to a Fatal Accident enquiry- and to the governments of Commonwealth countries- why even one person was injured/killed because of some ‘should have been foreseen’ contingency.
The 60 items are not likely to be anything more than little extra tweaks to show that everything humanly possible has been done to remove any danger.
If, however, there is at this late stage something really serious…… then we have to watch quite carefully how the ‘Minister for the CG and Sport’ ensures that it is dealt with. No public money must be surreptitiously slipped to RIFC plc to ‘help’ bail them out. Or ( because, as far as I know, no alternative venue has been arranged) if public money has to be used, every penny of it has to be clawed back from the amount of ‘rent’ and ‘re-instatement’ money that would otherwise be due, and from the club itself if the amount is greater.
We (or is it just me?) have learned to be highly distrustful of how our local and national public authorities approach problems occasioned by the owners of that particular venue.

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Paulmac2Posted on11:47 pm - May 30, 2014


John Clark says:
May 30, 2014 at 11:38 pm
……………………………

The bigger question is John…if the failings being reported are true and are not corrected with an alternative stadium selected…when will the SFA decide on a licence or safety checks for the comming season?

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GoosyGoosyPosted on11:57 pm - May 30, 2014


JB was never one of my all time greats
He played in an era where Celtic toiled to keep up with Rangers
But
I had to admire his commitment and tenacity as a player
Someone who played for the jersey
A constant reminder that Roy Aitken. had moved on

JB was the first Bear to proclaim what the Spivs were really up to
All he got for his trouble was ridicule
We should all have cut him some slack ,,,,,but we didn`t
We forgot
When you get hit by a tsunami it takes a giant to find the horizon
JB grew tall when it mattered
So
If he wants to speak on TSFM then I for one will listen

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BarcabhoyPosted on12:19 am - May 31, 2014


No idea whether Phil’s information is accurate or on the speculative side. I doubt though whether Wallace or any other director would take risks with the health and safety of spectators.

If there was any report in Rangers hands relating to games last season that suggested a health risk, then in my view they would either have closed the relevant section of the stadium or effected a repair .

Now , if this information has only just appeared since the end of the season , then depending on the severity of the faults it may be very unwelcome news indeed.

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AquinasPosted on12:22 am - May 31, 2014


GG, Celtic struggled to keep up Rangers because they were spending the Banks cash and avoiding tax on players salary, ok, got that off my chest.
I do admire his stance tho’ however Poorly prepared and his selection of back up (Goram) was not the smartest, he did speak out first, although by then the deals were all done.
He would not have seen DMurray as Hugh Adam did, he was working as a footballer, and he did amazingly well for some one who wasn’t in the top three footballers in his class in Blantyre! So hats off to the man, I like you would listen, I would like to here his thoughts on living within your means and not! ‘The way of Struth’ where Rangers il, always had to have the best of, etc, Get him on I say.

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AquinasPosted on12:35 am - May 31, 2014


BB, have you read the groundsmans account of woe on the official Sevco site, my reading gives me the impression that this mob will do what they do best, intimidate and threat! I’m guessing they will threaten to not be ready in time (while having carried out a percentage of works that would be claimable) and will demand up front payment for implementation and remediation, and they will get it, or SFA will loan it, the Sevco Football Association are Aye a guid bet for The Light Blues.

Boycott all things SFA, ALL things!

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RyanGoslingPosted on1:05 am - May 31, 2014


Aquinas as far as I am aware there has been no suggestion that Rangers avoided tax on players salaries during the period in which John Brown played.

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DonegaltimPosted on1:20 am - May 31, 2014


JB never came across as the most eloquent but in the big scheme of things, I think the bears treated him disgracefully. He was ridiculed for standing up for his football team, was willing to invest £40k of his own money, yet was ostracised for speaking out against CG.

I believe him to be a man of conviction who actually cared about his team. If we can take off our green tinted specs for a moment (red, yellow or whatever), I think JB’s not told us the whole story. He has information which I believe cannot be divulged because of legal consequences.

When he was interviewed on radio, he was coy about how he answered and was wary of stepping across a thin line. I have read about him being a genuine nice guy who is a typically family orientated chap, doting on his children. Of that I have no doubt.

JB was swimming with sharks and was probably out of his depth. He spoke from the heart and saw or read something which to this day, hasn’t been revealed. I never liked him as a player for obvious reasons but to look outside the persona, I believe he would be an excellent choice for a podcast with a lot more to reveal about this saga than most. His hatred towards CG was very evident in what CG was up to with regards TRIFC.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on1:25 am - May 31, 2014


RyanGosling says:
May 31, 2014 at 1:05 am

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Aquinas as far as I am aware there has been no suggestion that Rangers avoided tax on players salaries during the period in which John Brown played.

___________________________________

True enough to the best of my knowledge Ryan.
But now TRFC fans are looking a bit more critcially at the behavior of their own board and the SFAs position in this, I would hope that they would consider how these things look from the other fans point fo view as well. (I know you do btw… just making the point!)

If anything is done on the back of the CG to subsidise TRFC, or the SFA intervene (using auchenhowie for scotalnd training matches etc.) what are we supposed to think.

Ryan: You are an example of the decent fan that your comrades want to(in other clubs) help: it worked for Hearts – they got their ducks in a row.
If Houston and Brown can come up with some unequivecal anti bigotry rhetoric and get their ducks in a row and engage with fellow fans (including CFC ones) I think your new ‘club’ has a chance of creating something worthwhile that could enjoy the respect of fellow competitors and create a situation where the facts (i.e. RFC = extinct) are not forgotten but glossed over out of respect and politeness.
.
But the ‘kicking us when we are down’ rhetoric and paranoia – and the establishment succour etc. the living beyond your means when the rest of scottish football cuts its cloth:
…it makes us feel that we are better off without you and we would cheer your demise in the same way and for the same reasons that people delighted in Fred Goodwin being stripped of his Knighthood.
I’m Sorry for (some) of your fans. But not sorry your club(s) … dead or alive! Because there are better ones out there who have taken less from and given more to the game. Sorry… but its true.

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John ClarkPosted on1:53 am - May 31, 2014


Donegaltim says:
May 31, 2014 at 1:20 am
‘… He has information which I believe cannot be divulged because of legal consequences. .’
———–
There was, of course, the rumour that it was the threat of illegal consequences, such as, perhaps, being run- over- by- a- bus in Inverclyde kind of consequence, that kept him quiet for a time!
There are some bad, psychopathic ba.tards out there who would savage their own.
John B’s instincts were far more sound and honest than those of Carmyle’s ‘no-need-of-a-surname’ favourite son and gutless figurehead of a ‘director’, and of several other take- the- money- and- hide personnel who have made the name ‘Rangers’ synonymous with sporting cheatery and very peculiar business administration. In my opinion.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on1:55 am - May 31, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 30, 2014 at 10:16 pm

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___________________________________

Apologies echo. Probably my bad! May have been my slack work.
Possibily relating back to your 9.21 30 may ‘thread’ (or thereabouts) rather than any comments, but missing the timestamp makes it tricky. In deciding where to edit may habe taken either too little or not enuff!
No deliberate intentention to misrepresent, mislead or confuse, I assure you.
Will post the specifics below if I find it for others to judge.
Honest mistake!

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on1:58 am - May 31, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 30, 2014 at 9:22 am

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BroguesRoguesAndILikeThePogues says:
May 30, 2014 at 2:41 am
redlichtie says:
May 29, 2014 at 8:11 pm

I’d like to extend a genuine TSFM invitation to Craig Houston to engage on this blog. What have you got to lose? What might you gain in winning more general support? Scottish Football needs rid of these spivs.

___________________________

etc.. see above.

was just trying to point to this thread.

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AquinasPosted on1:59 am - May 31, 2014


RyanG, yer correct, Rangers were spending the banks money though, but to be fair no-one knew what D M was up too,the MSM didn’t want to know.

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Danish PastryPosted on7:14 am - May 31, 2014


Regarding the Murray Park rumour, I believe I’ve read several times from various sources that such a sale is not uncomplicated. Aside from that, it seems a little far-fetched that JB would be blurting out stuff like this to a complete stranger.

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Danish PastryPosted on7:53 am - May 31, 2014


Did someone mention the SoS guy as a potential interviewee? Not a bad call. Been following their twitter past few days after @ecobhoy (I believe) mentioned them positively. Chap’s getting a lot of abuse along with support. Some of his responses do make you think he is a lurker on TSFM already:

Sons of Struth
Today at 7:29am
I have had two posters ask me what THIS board have actually done wrong.

Here’s a wee list of things we know, they may well be a larger list of things we don’t know

. Pre AGM lied about having investors

. Agree a loan with preferred investor without looking for better rates and only achieving better rates after fans involvement

. Lie about reasons the credit and debit card payment company removed offer and try to blame it on fans, then claim you didn’t blame fans

. Claim “I can’t remember” when asked to prove your independently placed on board by saying who gave you your job after only two weeks of being given job

. Ridicule the intelligence of fans by claiming they didn’t hold red cards up for the board but in memory of Nelson Mandela

. Refuse to give legal guarantees not to sell Ibrox and defend this action by saying you’ve already said you wouldn’t, how hard would it be therefore to give these and encourage ST sales

. Have one director claim no admin then another give a set up interview to BBC saying that fans who don’t renew ST will put the club in admin,

. Question the loyalty of fans who have ploughed millions in to club during last two seasons in forth and third tier

. Have the disgraced Jack Irvine still give you advise and peddle stories to the press after you declare he no longer works for the club

. Refuse to deal with a guy willing to invest tens of millions in to the club

. Claim that the club have no short term cash flow problems then six weeks later seek out a buster loan

. Employ a director to head up an investment committee that can t attract any investment

. Release plans to employ 2x new directors and on the same day tell normal staff to expect redundancies

. Take 128 days to release a plan that any decent accountant could have drawn up in two weeks and in the plan show no financial details of how you are going to achieve your goals which were purely footballing targets.

This is just an off the top of my head assessment and in no way exhaustive.

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twopandaPosted on8:09 am - May 31, 2014


Barcabhoy says: at 12:19 am
No idea whether Phil’s information is accurate or on the speculative side. I doubt though whether Wallace or any other director would take risks with the health and safety of spectators.
If there was any report in Rangers hands relating to games last season that suggested a health risk, then in my view they would either have closed the relevant section of the stadium or effected a repair .
Now , if this information has only just appeared since the end of the season , then depending on the severity of the faults it may be very unwelcome news indeed.
____
It can be a shakedown of any stadium will uncover faults. Codes and Standards change – Ibrox was renewed to highest standards ahead of the pack [Taylor Report]. I`d like to think this is normal inspection of up to date compliance.

But trusting rotten spivs with their cash hoisting track record insufficient to reassure.

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TartanwulverPosted on8:23 am - May 31, 2014


I have some experience of dealing with lists of building defects from local authorities, and it is impossible to get an indication of how serious or otherwise the problems may be from the number of items on the list. Usually, if there are 60 defects, 20 or so will be along the lines of ‘panel not adequately secured’ and will take two minutes with a screwdriver to fix; 20 will be a bit more work, such as having to take something down and refix or reline it; and 15 or so will be things that cause a bit more disruption or need scaffolding tower to get to. It’s the severity of the last few where the devil lies, which might be straightforward but cost a bit more to fix, but all it takes is one line saying ‘supply certificate to confirm that all steelwork meets current standards’ or similar, and that one item on a list can suddenly mean the cost or timescale is out the window.

Aside from the inspectors wanting to do their job proficiently, and no-one wanting to carry the load of something going wrong (far less having to face an investigation should something happen), the relevant authorities and the club must be well aware that the world’s journalists will be invited to attend, and not just the local lamb scroungers. ‘Stadium not ready / danger to the public’ is a well-worn lead story trotted out for major sporting events (Barcelona Olympics, South Africa / Brazil world cups), and I’d imagine not the kind of story that the games organisers will want to offer to the press.

If the 60 items on the list are all doable, there will be no great pressure on the Ibroxians, but if there are one or two nasties on the list, the pressure will be immense.

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FairBairnPosted on9:27 am - May 31, 2014


I could be wrong, but is it not the case that Albion Rovers couldn’t use their park a few years ago, because of a kettle or urn which didn’t have an inspection sticker on the plug.
As well as the severity of the items, a jobsworth can also cause problems.

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Galling fiverPosted on9:43 am - May 31, 2014


Morton/Rangers fans thingy. Going back a while here, maybe 25yrs or more but I can tell you that I never seen them with Morton scarfs then, only oldco colours. The Morton supporters club was once the disco of choice in the area and everyone had a visit or three. And although as a local Bhoy myself, paid the odd trip to the cowshed to witness the marvel of Mr Andrew Ritchie. But from what I know over a long period of time, they where oldco men, and maybe had a big team we team thing going on for a wee while, but stand corrected of course.
It has been suggested that Morton fans are bears without bus fare, maybe when the busses took off things changed :mrgreen: .

Carry on.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:47 am - May 31, 2014


Ibrox Stadium and Commonwealth Games

I am a bit puzzled over the safety issues apparently identified.

Did I not read a reply on here from the C&G organising office perhaps 1-2 months ago stating that there were no health & safety issues at Ibrox and the stadium had a clean bill of health.

Perhaps I’m dreaming but I’m sure one of our regular posters contacted the C&G over safety concerns at Ibrox and the games committee gave it a clean bill of health.

So if it was fine a matter of weeks ago what could have happened in the interim?

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Galling fiverPosted on9:57 am - May 31, 2014


Apologies for the spelling n at, sausage fingers and iPhones don’t go. And Eco posted before I could fix it, n at.

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Palacio67Posted on10:03 am - May 31, 2014


Galling fiver says:
May 31, 2014 at 9:43 am
2 0 Rate This

Morton/Rangers fans thingy. Going back a while here, maybe 25yrs or more but I can tell you that I never seen them with Morton scarfs then, only oldco colours. The Morton supporters club was once the disco of choice in the area and everyone had a visit or three. And although as a local Bhoy myself, paid the odd trip to the cowshed to witness the marvel of Mr Andrew Ritchie. But from what I know over a long period of time, they where oldco men, and maybe had a big team we team thing going on for a wee while, but stand corrected of course.
It has been suggested that Morton fans are bears without bus fare, maybe when the busses took off things changed :mrgreen: .

Carry on.

————————————————–
Have to agree with Galling Fiver here. I posted a long time ago what I knew about the Easdales, and where there allegiances lie. I knew a member of their family who travelled to all games pre-Souness era. The Morton connection is only a local one imo and along with Inverclyde leisure/Council they tried very hard (And are still trying) to Stop ‘Celtic in the Community’ coming to Inverclyde. A few leaked emails had a few red faces running for cover.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on10:09 am - May 31, 2014


EXCLUSIVE!!!

The season’s over and already I am, in the words of the great Vyvyan, “bored, bored, bored, bored, bored”. (It’ll be while yet before we find out if the Broadwood vacancy was the real reason Neil Lennon quit Celtic).
In an attempt to see how events may pan out in this saga, I sought answers in an ancient form of prophesy. The ancients believed the future could be told by rearranging letters from connected persons or objects. In Arabic, this is known as “Ba’Hulucs”. That’s the English phoneticisation, obviously, as I don’t have an Arabic keyboard. Anyway, in looking to the Ibrox club’s summer tour, I was drawn mysteriously and inexplicably toward Ventura County Fusion. Having first of all made contact with the spirits, then the mixers, I foresaw the unveiling of a new orange kit as, when rearranged, VCF becomes “Uncover A Sunny Outfit”. More importantly, there is also hope (which may come from the Sons of Struth chap) – “Fan To Cut Ruinous Envy”. Let’s hope so.

Whilst I wait for the tabloids to run with this next week, I challenge anyone to claim this is less believable or relevant than most of what we pay Chic Young or Al Lamont to tell us. “You couldnae make it up”? Well, actually…

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mungoboyPosted on10:11 am - May 31, 2014


One of those coffee splattered all over the kitchen table moments.

Was having a quick look in the Den and spotted a thread about signings for the upcoming Championship campaign.
One of them posted that he felt they should hang back to see who impressed during the World Cup before making any signings.

That’ll be Messi then……… Or mair likely, messy!

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Palacio67Posted on10:20 am - May 31, 2014


Flocculent Apoidea says:
May 31, 2014 at 10:09 am
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” Do you think ants go to Disco’s”? 😛

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EddiegoldtopPosted on10:24 am - May 31, 2014


Following my last letter to the SFA ( which you can read here ) http://www.tsfm.net/an-honest-game-convince-us/comment-page-2/#comment-16425 , I have now had a reply from the SFA and copy it here for your information as promised ;

Dear Mr X,

Mr Regan is aware of your letter and he has asked me to confirm to you that we do not enter into correspondence or dialogue with third parties on sensitive matters relating to our member clubs. As such, we will not be replying to your letter.

If you wish to identify which area of Scottish football you are a sponsor of, Stewart would be happy to discuss this exchange with the relevant party directly.

Kind regards,

Sandra Buchanan
PA to Chief Executive
Scottish FA

Tel – 0141 616 6004
Mob – 0771 xxxxxxx.

So there you have it , the SFA hiding behind third party confidentiality to enable them not to have to answer some of the most relevant questions that not just the sponsors of Scottish football , but the supporters of Scottish football deserve to hear.

I wonder how often this 3rd party confidentiality gets used by them in their attempts to refuse to face up to the truths ?

So what now for me I hear you say ? What are my options ?

If you have read my letter to SFA you will have no doubt seen that I Intimated that It would not be my preference to speak directly to the owners of the club I sponsor for obvious reasons. Mr Regan has no doubt picked up on this as the last line of his reply basically says ” tell me who the club are and I’ll talk to them directly” .

Yes I’m sure you will Mr Regan , I’m sure you will !

So do I walk away now that I’m faced with the truthful fact that the SFA are not allowed under their rules to discuss to 3rd parties , information on member clubs ?
I’m sure that’s what Mr Regan desperately wants , but the answer to that question is….not a hope in hell !

I will indeed bite the bullet and go direct to the owner of the club and sit down with them to go through my letter and my concerns and hope that they will be helpful towards me and can take up my case on my behalf and ask the very same questions that I have . So largely , the fate of my letter lies with the club that I currently sponsor, I hope that the fear of losing a substantial 5 figure sum in sponsorship next season may swing it in my favour and persuade them to help .

Now here’s another thing that has come to my attention in the last couple of weeks regarding my club approaching the SFA on my behalf.
Some of you may already have picked up on this , what are the probabilities of the club I’m sponsoring deciding to support me fully , then going to the SFA with the questions , then getting the same reply as I did with regards to 3rd party confidentiality ? I’d say the club almost certainly will get the same reply simply because as has previously been identified, certain people within the SFA are now in totally self defence mode and will stop at nothing to hide the truth so as to protect their own failings.

So what next if even the club cannot get answers when they go to the SFA ? Does that mean curtains for me and you and our quest for answers and for truth and transparency ?
Well actually no it doesn’t . And here’s why .

My lawyer just happens to be a very well versed man in sports law and on discussing this matter with him a couple of weeks back he assures me that there is a part of the UEFA regs which states that if the club is not happy with the ruling body’s decisions or behaviour they can go direct to UEFA and ask them to Intervene . I have not read up on the UEFA regs myself so will trust that one of the regular posters on here can help with the relevant regulation which covers this .

So all is not lost if SFA play their next card as expected, there is a further avenue to explore. And the question would need to be asked at that point , would the SFA want UEFA looking into their internal dealings ?

Of course, going back to the original point, it all depends on whether the club has the appetite to take things this far . Time will tell but one thing is for sure , this man will not give in until he is absolutely certain that every option available to him has been explored.

I get a very uneasy feeling about our governing bodies the more and more things that come out of the closet . Recent revelations on twitter from guys like Celtic Research and Paul Larkin do not make for good reading . I was also aware of a twitter spat between the SFA’s Darryl Broadfoot and the twitter account Moo_ted in which Moo_ted asked a simple question to Broadfoot ” when can the sponsor expect a reply to his letter”? , to which Broadfoot replied ” what letter? What sponsor”? . When all along Mr Broadfoot knew exactly what letter and what sponsor as he had discussed it only days before with Angela Haggerty of the Drum prior to Angela running with the story in The Drum. When this fact was pointed out to Broadfoot he then became very condescending towards the questioner .
It is these type of things which make me feel very uneasy and suspicious of the ruling bodies and I think that is mirrored across the whole of Scottish football. The fact that they cannot see the need for the questions to be answered tells it’s own story.

I will look forward to the meeting with my club and will update you on any developments .

As I have said previously , if we don’t do anything then nothing will happen. If we do something then something might happen.

Wish me luck.

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wottpiPosted on10:24 am - May 31, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 31, 2014 at 9:47 am

It was John Clark, see a few posts back.

However I think we are in danger of clutching at straws with all this H&S stuff.
Sometimes as a forum we pick up little tit-bits and then build them up into nonsense.

Tartanwulver is correct with regard to how these lists are made up and what may be on them.
If there are 60 or so items have been identified then I am happy that a decent job seems to being done in preparation for the Commonwealth Games.
It could be that the 60 items identifies 50 seats are a bit shoogly from the end of season bouncy bouncy!!

We all know that Ibrox is looking a bit shabby but if we put our minds to it we could all list a good number of grounds in worse condition.

The real question for me is what are the footballing authorities doing in terms of getting guarantees that T’Rangers can get through next season.

Was down at Craven Cottage midweek and spoke to some Bears before the game. View was they would be lucky to get to Christmas without some form of admin/insolvency event.

If that is a view held by some of their own fans what are the authorities doing to prepare for such a possibility.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on10:30 am - May 31, 2014


Palacio67 – Yes, in silver boob tubes. It’s true, I read it in the papers. 😉

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Palacio67Posted on10:32 am - May 31, 2014


Eddiegoldtop says:
May 31, 2014 at 10:24 am
1 0 Rate This
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Well done Egt. Keep digging away, just hope the club you sponsor carries on the mantle.

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neepheidPosted on10:41 am - May 31, 2014


Peace conference at the Louden tomorrow- Versailles was fully booked.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s1vabh

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on10:51 am - May 31, 2014


Great effort Eddiegoldtop.

A typical response from the SFA, and one I’m sure you expected.
How long did it take Regan and co. to come up with this dismissive 3 sentence reply to your original excellent enquiry?

It seems like months. Perhaps Stewart has been on another lengthy holiday funded from his healthy SFA wage packet!

Do you think the club you sponsor will be of a mind to follow this through?
I’m hoping you sponsor a club like Raith Rovers!

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redlichtiePosted on11:07 am - May 31, 2014


Galling fiver says:
May 31, 2014 at 9:43 am
…. And although as a local Bhoy myself, paid the odd trip to the cowshed to witness the marvel of Mr Andrew Ritchie.
=================================================
Is the club shop still vainly trying to flog those Andy Ritchie sweatbands, bought I suspect on a more than optimistic whim?

Scottish Football needs more characters like Andy Ritchie.

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Cluster OnePosted on11:13 am - May 31, 2014


Eddiegoldtop says:

May 31, 2014 at 10:24 am
Wish me luck.

I and many others are wishing, Keep up the good work ➡ Go for it

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AllyjamboPosted on11:47 am - May 31, 2014


Good luck to Eddiegoldtop, though I suspect it could be Regan and co that need the luck should the club that accepts Eddie’s money see fit to support him.

Scottish football needs support for Eddiegoldtop

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redlichtiePosted on12:06 pm - May 31, 2014


Allyjambo says:
May 31, 2014 at 11:47 am
TU 1
TD 1
Rate This
Good luck to Eddiegoldtop, though I suspect it could be Regan and co that need the luck should the club that accepts Eddie’s money see fit to support him.
Scottish football needs support for Eddiegoldtop
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Why would anyone TD AJ’s post?

Scottish football needs support for Eddiegoldtop.

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CampbellsmoneyPosted on12:06 pm - May 31, 2014


Eddiegoldtop

I salute your indefatigability. Your club and Scottish football are lucky to have your support.

Ooooh I love a World Cup. Makes me feel like a wee boy again. I hope it is as good as next year’s Championship has already proved to be.

Actually I think that next year’s Championship is going to have to go some to be better than last year’s.

Hearts and Hibs were the two teams in the Premiership that gained the fewest points. Will they be stronger teams or weaker teams than last year?

Usually when teams go down, their playing squads get weaker. I am not sure that that will be true of Hibs and Hearts. Falkirk too will be in with a shout. Its unlikely to be the kind of league where any team would be able to go to many away grounds and be confident of winning consistently.

As for TRFC, stronger or weaker next season?

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yourhavingalaughPosted on12:07 pm - May 31, 2014


Best of luck Eddiegoldtop
Guys like yourself are cutting away at the long grass and sooner or later the snakes in there will be exposed,Regan will be exposed for what he is and the roof will be off the gang hut.
Re the remedials list for Ibrox ,as I posted a few weeks back the Lady in charge of the issuing of safety certs for all venues was not a happy bunny and has breathed fire at a few non compliant venue owners and will not hold back on any decision to refuse a cerificate,this has exposed the old adage of who checks the checker and I imagine there will be questions asked of who and what procedure was followed to check these venues,the proverbial will hit the fan ,the $64k question is will it hit before or after.

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CastofthousandsPosted on12:40 pm - May 31, 2014


Eddiegoldtop says:
May 31, 2014 at 10:24 am

“…it all depends on whether the club has the appetite to take things this far”
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There’s the rub.
The fundamental problem with sports governance is one that is addressed in a political sphere by the democracy. If a political government becomes complacent or corrupt then their ‘franchise’ may vote them out.
In a commercial environment a similar mechanism exists. Organisations that do not focus on their core function risk becoming inefficient and eventually unprofitable. Your own business discipline will be guided by the activities of your competitors.
Sports governing bodies are not subject to such a strong democratic or commercial imperative. They have inherited their status from a past generation of amateur participants who would likely never have envisaged their activity becoming a lucrative recreation at some future point. As a result, sports constitutions are unlikely to be formulated with wide ranging governance in mind. It would likely have been assumed that the sporting integrity that underpinned its amateur form would survive in later incarnations. However we can see with many sports (cycling, horse racing, snooker, cricket etc) that financial inducements can lead to not only participants but also governing bodies becoming tainted by corruption.

These governing bodies were never designed to be corruption proofed.

Sport’s ‘franchise’ is the spectators; for it is they that generate the income that can generate distortions in integrity. The spectators do not have a vote in the selection of sport’s governing bodies and even if they did this might prove equally corrupting. However they do bring financial leverage. They are the customer and when they act in a concerted manner, great stresses can be brought to bear. Those wishing to maintain the status quo are unlikely to betray the effects of such stresses until they become overwhelming so there is no litmus test as to how effective a campaign is. However it has already been illustrated that a threatened season ticket boycott brought about a radical shift in SFA/SPL policy.

Your pursuit of this matter is admirable and is to be encouraged. It may be that your efforts do not apparently have the effect you desire. This will not necessarily mean that they are not effective. There is so much stress within the governing bodies of football at the moment that every additional incursion will bring with it a problem. The governing bodies betray none of the symptoms of being in control; quite the reverse. It may be that an appeal to UEFA suffers similar frustration due to the inherent dysfunction of the governance model. However even the suggestion of such an approach cranks up the pressure.

Someone posted up an article recently concerning the analysis of catastrophe. It was like ‘the straw that broke the camels back’. Of course one straw will not so severely strain a camel but if it is part of a process that heaps more and more pressure on the poor beast then it might at any moment decide that ‘that is the last straw’ and allow its legs to buckle beneath it.

There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. Perhaps it is time to reclaim the integrity of sport from those who have become complacent and arrogant in its governance. Perhaps it is time to give it back to the guy in the street upon whom its ever increasing foundations have been built. If such a quest is to be successful it will require the efforts of many: The passionate and the intrigued, the influential and interested, the stalwart and the inspired.

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dukinfisgustedPosted on12:53 pm - May 31, 2014


“We are all Eddiegoldtop”

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