Armageddon? What Armageddon?

ByBig Pink

Armageddon? What Armageddon?

Now that we are at the end of the league season, and with respect to the job still to be done at Tannadice and McDiarmid Park, it seems like a good time for a post holocaust report.

Average Weekly Attendances SPL 2011-2014

Fig 1 Average Weekly Attendances SPL 2011-2014

Peppered around this page are three charts and a table* showing the attendance figures for the SPL in the last three seasons. A school kid could tell you that there is a positive trend in those charts and figures, but the people who run our national sport will look you straight in the eye and tell you “that can’t be right – Armageddon is coming!”

It is one of the most ridiculous and mendacious situations I have ever come across. The people who run our national game, aided and abetted by those in the MSM (sans the eye contact though) are actually trying to persuade us of how awful our game is and how unsustainable it will be in the absence of one, just one, club.

Think about that. The SFA and the SPFL trying to talk us out of supporting the game unless we all recognise the unique importance of one, just one, club. That is what has happened, no matter how they try to spin it. And despite evidence to the contrary contained in these figures, not one of them has admitted to an error, never mind the downright lies that they told to support the position they held, the one where anyone speaking of sporting integrity was mocked and ridiculed.

 

Whilst growing up as football supporter in the 60s, one of things I was constantly bombarded with via the medium of the tabloid newspapers was that football clubs should be grateful for the publicity afforded them via their back pages. These were probably reasonable claims, especially in the light of the relative lack of access to players and officials conceded to the hacks in those days, and the pre-eminent cultural position in which they helped to place football. Alongside that, the broadcast media, particularly Archie Macpherson’s Sportscene and Arthur Montford’s Scotsport could be relied on to talk the game up. Of course, there was something in it for the papers – sales. The more column inches devoted to the national sport, the further northward their sales, and consequently advertising revenues travelled.

ex Celtic & Rangers

Fig 2 Avg. Attendances excl Celtic & Rangers

The situation was further cemented by the fact that the press in that ante-interweb era held a monopoly over the exchange and dissemination of information. That symbiotic, win-win relationship between football and the press was as much a part of football reality as the Hampden Roar. It also endured for decades. The press would talk up the game to such an extent that folk often remarked that they hadn’t realised how much they had enjoyed a particular match until they had read Malky Munro or Hughie Taylor’s report the next day. Archie Macpherson is on record as having said the same thing about legendary commentator David Francey, “It was a much better game to listen to than to see!”

Today that symbiosis is broken. The press themselves, in print and in front of microphones consistently belittle the product, talk of crises and Armageddon, of our own version of the Eisenhower domino effect of clubs going to the wall one after another.

Aided and abetted by the two chief bureaucrats in charge of Scottish football, Stuart Regan and Neil Doncaster, who have consistently helped to hammer home the message that Scottish football is not good enough, and cannot sustain itself financially without Rangers, a club that could not itself sustain itself financially to the extent that it is being liquidated.

At a time when Scottish football was clearly in crisis, and badly in need of sponsorship which could mitigate the effects of that crisis, the press and the authorities sought to strengthen their own negotiating hand by making negative claims about the state of the game which never came to pass, and for which they have never apologised. The actual situation, which would not have been hard to predict had anyone actually bothered to analyse the business of Scottish football, is summarised quite easily by saying this;

  1. Since Rangers’ liquidation and subsequent absence from the top league, the average home attendance of the other clubs has INCREASED overall (See Fig 2).
  2. In this season, the other clubs have added 50,000 fans to home attendances compared to 2011-12 (the last year Rangers were in competition).
  3. In that time the league has been won (twice) by Celtic, and the other honours have been claimed by St, Mirren, Aberdeen, Celtic and (either) Dundee United or St Johnstone.
  4. In that time, both Dunfermline Athletic and Hearts (who both had historical financial problems) entered – and exited – administration after fan-led buyouts.
  5. Dundee United have cleared off their bank debt.
  6. Kilmarnock have restructured their bank debt, freeing the club from a precarious long-term situation.
  7. League reconstruction has allowed some money to trickle down to the second tier clubs in an attempt to mitigate the immediate effects of relegation and to reward ambitious clubs.

table

Looking at the table of attendances above, it is pretty clear that immediately upon Rangers exit, the overall figures took a dip. However there was little difference the in the figures if you leave Rangers out of the equation (Fig 3) – despite Celtic’s attendance taking a hit that year (down by around 5,000 per home match).

Taking Celtic out of the calculations, it is clear that there is a 6,000 uplift in this average (Fig 2).

It is still undeniable that less people overall are watching football (Fig 1), but the trend is upward if one leaves the Ibrox club out of the picture.

Furthermore, this statistic exposes the double edged sword that is retention of home gates. The fact that gates are not shared is predicated upon the notion that the bigger clubs do not depend on the smaller clubs for income. And since the smaller clubs are no longer recipients of big club largesse, their fortunes are not affected, at least not as much as was suggested by the Regans, Doncasters and Traynors of this parish. The “Trickle-Down” theory of Reganomics said otherwise – but clearly and demonstrably it was wrong.

The abandonment of gate sharing has made Scottish football less interdependent than it once was, but the irony is that it works both ways. There is hardly a club in the country that depends on Rangers for their own existence, and here is the news; small clubs are no longer financially dependent on the former Old Firm.

Excluding Celtic

Fig 3 Excluding Celtic

The fact, that is F-A-C-T, is that Scottish Football attendances in the top division are on the increase. The absence of Rangers has made no appreciably negative difference to any other club, far less caused a catastrophe of biblical proportions.

Even if the fools who were the harbingers of our doom were simply guilty of making an honest mistake, it is clear that they are uncontaminated with the slightest notion of how the game in this country operates. The Old Firm may be dead, but the OF prism is still being peered through by Stuart Regan, Neil Doncaster and the vast majority of print journalists. The latter who failed to honour that age-old football/press symbiosis because they believed, erroneously that David Murray’s dinner table was the hand that has fed them for over a century.

The irony is that as job opportunities diminish in the print sector, so too will the fine dining and patronage. I think they call that evolution.

 

Two years ago, in the wake of the fans’ season ticket revolt which saw the new Rangers forced to apply for membership of the league and begin at the bottom, those same MSM hacks taunted fans about putting their money where their mouths were. The fans responded splendidly as our statistics demonstrate, but typically there has been no recognition of this either at Hampden or in the media.

And the message from those fans is this: Scottish football is not dying. Not any more. At least not as surely as it was when David Murray started to choke the life out of it in the late 80s. The supporters are returning in numbers to see a competition untainted by the outrageous liberty-taking and rule-breaking of the last couple of decades, and all but one club has emerged from the mire of the Moonbeam Millennium looking forward to a new era.

If authorities allow the new era to thrive by restoring sporting integrity to the agenda, then the numbers, like the opportunities available to more and more clubs, will grow. The question is … will they?

Admittedly, these figures, like any set of statistics, can be cherry-picked to suit almost any argument that you care to construct. The fact remains though, that whilst it would be fanciful and ridiculously over-optimistic to claim that they bear witness to a burgeoning industry, it is utterly dishonest to conclude that they represent financial Armageddon. Armageddon? Aye right!

* Source ESPN          

About the author

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

2,810 Comments so far

Jimmy BonezPosted on7:02 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Still not too late – can I have Chile, please ?

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ecobhoyPosted on7:29 pm - Jun 11, 2014


sannoffymesssoitizz says:
June 11, 2014 at 5:51 pm

On reflection do you not think that inadvertantly you might have overdramatised the need for the DV to be the subject of an investigation to be carried out by Police Scotland?
=======================================
No I don’t think I over-dramatised anything and might I suggest you re-read the piece more carefully – I think without employing your civil service background you might agree there are a number of disturbing issues which arise.

I happen to believe the public servant has a right to be cleared of the taint which others are attaching to him and I honestly believe the only way that this can be done is through a police investigation which has the powers to actually get to the bottom of the matter.

For obvious reasons neither of the parties would ever in a million years raise a complaint – that most certainly is no guarantee that they are happy with the process. However I will leave matters as they stand.

@TSFM – Thanks for your offer of having my very own ‘Bonkers Thread’ but I’ll pass on that one. Probably time for me to chill-out and watch the footie. I certainly know when my contribution is no longer needed or desired.

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AllyjamboPosted on7:36 pm - Jun 11, 2014


TSFM says:
June 11, 2014 at 5:58 pm

Can I just say, that as a non Celtic-centric guy, I would hope that eco continues to de-bunk this Idiot-land nonsense. Right should always trump wrong. I think, whenever an attack is made on any Scottish football club, it is up to The Scottish Football Monitor to dissect it’s merits, and if it holds no merit, ensure it gets a bashing here.

Eco and I haven’t always agreed, but my god, he knows his stuff. Knowledge should always trump the ignorance of hatred. Sometimes the truth has to be repeated again and again.

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erniePosted on8:01 pm - Jun 11, 2014


World cup bagsies. Is it too late to pick? I was away for a few days and have tracked back but can’t find the terms of engagement, can anyone enlighten me? I’ll take Greece anyway as they appear to be unbagsied. They’ve had a shock win before and are thoroughly unlikeable; my kinda team!!
Oh, and good luck Hearts, I trust that you’ll come out of this well.

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AllyjamboPosted on8:04 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Anyway, as I said earlier, went down to my local to raise a glass to my club’s future. I don’t drink whisky (it’s the only drink that has ever made me sick and I don’t actually enjoy it, but I do like to have the occasional malt), met the token Rangers (now TRFC) supporter on my way in and told him Hearts were out of administration, he said ‘that’s good’ and I didn’t push it any further. Sadly. for me, there was nobody else there that would be in any way interested. Now here’s the really bad bit. I sat at the bar, talking to folk who have no interest in the beautiful game so didn’t mention my euphoria, and after a couple of pints spotted, on the gantry, the only malt the pub stock, an Auchentoshan, and decided to have a wee private toast and bought one (’twas very nice). My first taste, naturally, was to raise my eyes to the heavens and, very privately, toast the Hearts. Wouldn’t you know it, I raised my glass and lo! right there was a St George’s Cross flag, hanging above the bar. God, I felt bad, hoping no one had observed me who might think I’d toasted England’s assault on the World Cup. I raised my eyes to the heavens 🙄 and hoped any observers noticed that, then turned to an empty wall and re-toasted the Hearts. Sometimes it’s hard living in England 😕

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CastofthousandsPosted on8:19 pm - Jun 11, 2014


redlichtie says:
June 11, 2014 at 4:26 pm

“Kinda lost touch with the “registered office tennis” match…”
———————————————–
It is an interesting observation nevertheless.

There was a Limeharbour address for Sevco 5088 at one point. The Vine Street address also sounds familiar.

I had got the impression that Field Fisher Waterhouse (Patrick Cannon) were the mechanism by which big hands duped CW. The audio of CW signing various documents has ‘Patrick’ on the other end of the phone confirming he will retain documentation until CW authorises release.

If Sevco 5088 are now registered with FFW it could mean a number of things including:

1. CW has relinquished his claim and has assigned Sevco 5088 to another party.
2. It was always part of the plan that FFW would pick up Sevco 5088.
3. The duping was in some way time barred meaning that given the passage of time CW’s claim falls.

Any further speculation by me would be mere speculation.

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JoeninhoPosted on8:24 pm - Jun 11, 2014


ECOBHOY
Somebody once said It takes only the silence of good men for evil to prosper. Or words to that effect. Keep on keeping on.

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61patrickPosted on8:28 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Easy Jambo
As I have said before I came on here with a set view of Hearts and their fans, thankfully after reading posts from your good self and others I realised the problem was mine and my views were blinkered 😳 😳
So let me add my congratulations to your goodself ,your club ,people like AJ and others who took the steps needed to play your part in saving your club from liquidation, and without getting into oldco newco debate, liquidation of a football club is the end no matter how deluded you may be.
again enjoy the journey travelling on the proper route not the spend other peoples money and live outwith your means twisted path 😆

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on8:32 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Allyjambo says:
June 11, 2014 at 7:36 pm

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TSFM says:
June 11, 2014 at 5:58 pm

Can I just say, that as a non Celtic-centric guy, I would hope that eco continues to de-bunk this Idiot-land nonsense. Right should always trump wrong. I think, whenever an attack is made on any Scottish football club, it is up to The Scottish Football Monitor to dissect it’s merits, and if it holds no merit, ensure it gets a bashing here.

Eco and I haven’t always agreed, but my god, he knows his stuff. Knowledge should always trump the ignorance of hatred. Sometimes the truth has to be repeated again and again.

_____________________________________________________

Seconded.
I am another non Celtic fan who has enjoyed and benefitted from eco’s comprehensive dismantling of this trumped up guff.

Not least, it is good to be able to have access to such analysis for counterpointing the unrighteous indignation of any TRFC fans one encounters trying to play the victim card inappropriately on this issue.
(I add that many bears do have a great deal over which they can legitimately feel aggrieved – e.g. SDM/Charles Green/Ally McCoist/SFA are notable examples) but this land deals feint goes straight into the pile containing stuff where they’ll get no sympathy from me… along with the whole of EBT/liquidation/newco nonsense.

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sannoffymesssoitizzPosted on8:53 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Allyjambo says: June 11, 2014 at 8:04 pm

I feel your pain and I’m raising a glass of Rioja to you and your fellow Jambos 😉

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CampbellsmoneyPosted on9:04 pm - Jun 11, 2014


I applaud Ecobhoy’s work. The State Aid allegations are laughable but cease to be funny when the integrity of named individuals is impugned.

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AllyjamboPosted on9:04 pm - Jun 11, 2014


sannoffymesssoitizz says:
June 11, 2014 at 8:53 pm

Thanks for your sympathy (though unnecessary, for I love my life down here despite their flags) and for raising your glass to my club 😀

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on9:08 pm - Jun 11, 2014


TSFM says:
June 11, 2014 at 5:45 pm

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easyJambo says:

June 11, 2014 at 4:51 pm

51 weeks and it’s over. Hearts are now officially out of administration. 😛

….and now the hard work starts.
________________________________________________________

Great news and an excellent sense of perspective EJ. I have written to FOH with our best wishes and an invitation for a representative to speak to Big Pink for a future Podcast.
Be interesting to hear and see the broad direction of the maroon roadmap.

🙂 😀 :mrgreen: 😎

_______________________________________________

And a chapeau to Bryan Jackson is probably in order.
Acted in the best interests of the creditors at all times.
And yet still enabled the club to be saved from liquidation.
Contrast his actions with the pantomime presided over by Duff and Duffer.

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John ClarkPosted on9:10 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Martin says:
June 11, 2014 at 8:43 pm
‘…It’s not necessary to agree with anyone’s post to make reading it worthwhile, .’
——-
-Agreed. Particularly when, like ecobhoy’s posts they illuminate with facts, and keep the story straight.
We all have a much more informed understanding of the ‘land’ issues thanks to the tremendous research and reporting by ecobhoy.

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sannoffymesssoitizzPosted on9:14 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Martin says: June 11, 2014 at 8:43 pm

Hear, hear. I’m still a bit stunned at Eco’s reaction to my earlier post. 😮

Based on evidence I have very little confidence in the impartiality of the Polis.

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RyanGoslingPosted on9:15 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Ecobhoy,

The only thing I know about the state aid claims is what I’ve read from you here, and given the detail of your investigation have never felt the need to look elsewhere for further info. I’ve been impressed with your diligence on the subject.

Having said that, purely from the amount of work you do on it I could understand TSFMs suggestion to start a new thread for it. Far from taking that as a slight though, I viewed it as a compliment to you and I think it would be valuable to have all such posts in one easily accessible place if the need arose in future to reference such info.

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sannoffymesssoitizzPosted on9:47 pm - Jun 11, 2014


Allyjambo says: June 11, 2014 at 9:04 pm

Your welcome.

As I’ve lived in London since 1978 I’m dreading the sight of so many of their flags in next week or so. I’m relying on Bella Italia (Forza Italia. Andiamo regazzi !!!!) and Andy Murray to fly our flag. 😆

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TincksPosted on10:02 pm - Jun 11, 2014


How did I, an Essex born and raised Chelsea supporter become such an avid reader of TSFM?

Well, about two years ago I first read a snippet about the Rangers tax case in the English MSM and there was enough about the report that didn’t sit right with me to want to find out more. So I Googled “Rangers Tax Case” and the rest is history. Many hours wiled away on RTC, TSFM and Random Thoughts.

That’s the how, so what about the why?

Because for all m life it has been injustice that has made me burn and this story is about injustice above all else. Titles falsely won with money that was not theirs. Creditors, taxpayers and public services screwed over. Complicit administrators willing to bend, ignore and change their rules to assist a favoured party when the rules should be applied equally to all without fear or favour.

Perhaps worst of all, the Fourth Estate. Those we entrust to expose these matters sitting silent in the carriages of the succulent lamb and gravy train. Too afraid to speak the truth lest they lose their place in the pecking order.

There are too many threads to this story to mention in one post. But one small thread is the “Celtic State Aid” allegations made by the land bears I don’t know who these people are, lone nutters or something more organised but it does seem that in their campaign they are targeting ordinary hard working public officials for harassment. This is an injustice and needs exposing as much as any other thread of the story.

The land bears allegations are by their nature complex and relate to commercial deals. So Eco’s rebuttals can sometimes be lengthy and complex, but necessarily so. If people don’t want to read about the state aid allegations, TUPE or any other issue debated on here they can skip those posts.

I for one want the light kept shining on this issue.

Sometimes there are so many big injustices that fighting the small fights can seem pointless. That is why I tip my hat to all at TSFM. You have something that you care passionately about, the game of Scottish football, where something is rotten and you have come together to try and do whatever you can to shine a light on the injustices that have been committed.

I’ll finish with a cliché. But it is a cliché because it is true.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

Tincks

P.S. Before anyone asks how I can square supporting Chelsea with supporting fair competition I’ll say that everything I have seen won in these “Glory Years” is tainted. Compromised by an oligarchs billions. My Dad may not have lived to see this glut of silverware but what little he did see Chelsea win in his lifetime was won honestly.

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essexbeancounterPosted on10:55 pm - Jun 11, 2014


sannoffymesssoitizz says:
June 11, 2014 at 9:47 pm
6 0 Rate This

Allyjambo says: June 11, 2014 at 9:04 pm

Your welcome.

As I’ve lived in London since 1978 I’m dreading the sight of so many of their flags in next week or so. I’m relying on Bella Italia (Forza Italia. Andiamo regazzi !!!!) and Andy Murray to fly our flag. 😆
=======================================================
At least they no longer fly the Union Flag/Jack as they did in 1966…!

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John ClarkPosted on11:40 pm - Jun 11, 2014


essexbeancounter says:
June 11, 2014 at 10:55 pm
‘.At least they no longer fly the Union Flag/Jack as they did in 1966…!’
———–
And I’m quite happy that they should rally behind the cross of St George and cry ” For Harry! England and St George…) ( Shakespeak, King ‘Enery V,Act 3, scene i ), just as we would wave the Saltire and cry ‘Freeeedom!’
I’ll also be quite happy, of course, if they just cry! 😀

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Paulmac2Posted on12:35 am - Jun 12, 2014


SouthernExile says:
June 11, 2014 at 11:55 am
…………………………………
So we agree it was a purchase of assets….the question then follows did that purchase of assets prevent the employees from continuing to work/play football for their current employer?…

It matters not that CG purchased assets to start a football club to play football…his purchase did not prevent the players from continuing to play football for their current employer…in that scenario a spiv does not have to accept TUPE as a factor of purchase…it would be for D&D to detail how the purchase of assets prevented the players from playing football and include TUPE in the asset sale…with both football clubs existing at the same time and the old club the only one with a licence to play association football at the time of asset sale… thus the only one in a position to guarantee employment…

I have never heard of anyone agreeing to a TUPE to unemployment?…which is what was on offer at that time.

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John ClarkPosted on12:43 am - Jun 12, 2014


nawlite says:
June 11, 2014 at 10:40 pm
‘…To Eddie Goldtop, I say keep on pushing the authorities for the truth. Good luck in your meeting.’
————–
Eddie Goldtop is a no-nonsense, hard-headed , pragmatic business man. Nobody’s mug. He also has the same sense of fairness and truth that most of us on this blog strive to exhibit in our posts.
We know that many of our club owners/directors are less than happy that ‘exceptions’ ( to put it no higher than that) were made to accommodate one disastrously failed club, exceptions that were not even remotely considered in relation to other ‘smaller’ ( i.e., in the minds of the best administrators in the world, ‘not important’) who fell upon hard times.
We know that the influence exerted by the supporters of the idea of honest sporting contest was enough to frighten the ‘Authorities’ into having to accept that they could not wholly get their own way, in spite of threats of ‘Armageddon’ and civic unrest and all that stupid, stupid nonsense.
How much greater will be, could be, the influence of those whose sponsorship money, given in the belief in Sporting Integrity, and in the belief that the dice are not crookedly loaded against the teams they are prepared to sponsor, is of vital significance?
There will already, and inevitably, be an awareness in the general Scottish Football world, that a sponsor of an important club is raising concerns that his club -and other clubs- have been ,are being, played for mugs by the Football Authorities.
There will be other sponsors, or potential sponsors, who may very well ask themselves: why put money into a rigged sport?
I hope that Eddie Goldtop’s initiative will be looked at closely by the sponsors or potential sponsors of other clubs, and that they in turn will begin to ask the clubs they sponsor some hard questions about the SFA’s readiness and capacity to run a clean sport. And that those clubs will realise that something fundamental has to change. And that that realisation will be translated into effective action to remedy the great wrongdoing that has been wrought both at their expense and at the expense of any kind of governance integrity.

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enough is enoughPosted on12:49 am - Jun 12, 2014


As we all (mostly) have picked our winners… can I suggest another “office sweep”?

Which England player will miss the penalty that puts them out?

I bagsy Wayne

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John ClarkPosted on1:37 am - Jun 12, 2014


Tincks says:
June 11, 2014 at 10:02 pm
‘….If people don’t want to read about the state aid allegations, TUPE or any other issue debated on here they can skip those posts.’
———–
Of all the very relevant points you make,Tincks, that is of immediate importance to the blog. I personally have always spoken against the suggestion that different threads should be opened up so that people could follow their own particular, perhaps narrow, interest.
I read every post.
I kind of imagine that others(mostly) do the same,particularly those who put finger to keyboard.
It’s what we do in pub discussions, whether with our cronies ( whose views we already know!) or with others that we are socialising with.
If somebody has something to say, we listen. We might not be all that hellish interested in what he/she has to say, it might be away off topic, or utterly pointless, or whatever. But we hear it. And the hearing of it gives us another wee dimension, another perspective, another ‘fact’ about someone else’s way of looking at things.
Clearly, any kind of specific record- podcasts, or court ‘reports’- on which there is no current discussion or debate- can go into archive. Which is quite a different thing from a parallel thread.
In so far as ecobhoy’s land issues posts are keeping us very much in the picture in a live, counter-falsehood argument, I see no real justification at this point in moving them to any separate thread.
As you say, Tincks, if people don’t want to read them, a simple key depression will move them on to the next post.

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StevieBCPosted on6:18 am - Jun 12, 2014


1) Cheering on Rangers.
I have to confess to fellow Bampots that tonight I was keeping my fingers crossed for Rangers.
In fact I was cheering on the team in red, white and blue.
The New York Rangers of course…but it did still feel a bit weird.

2) Sponsors forcing change.
Good to hear from eddiegoldtop – and perhaps on a different scale there could be parallels with the latest FIFA scandal. Even if the fans are routinely ignored the governing bodies – FIFA or the SFA – cannot afford to alienate sponsors…you would think.

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the taxman comethPosted on7:01 am - Jun 12, 2014


Paulmac2 says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:35 am
4 0 Rate This

SouthernExile says:
June 11, 2014 at 11:55 am
…………………………………
So we agree it was a purchase of assets….the question then follows did that purchase of assets prevent the employees from continuing to work/play football for their current employer?…

It matters not that CG purchased assets to start a football club to play football…his purchase did not prevent the players from continuing to play football for their current employer…in that scenario a spiv does not have to accept TUPE as a factor of purchase…it would be for D&D to detail how the purchase of assets prevented the players from playing football and include TUPE in the asset sale…with both football clubs existing at the same time and the old club the only one with a licence to play association football at the time of asset sale… thus the only one in a position to guarantee employment…

I have never heard of anyone agreeing to a TUPE to unemployment?…which is what was on offer at that time.

==========

All the players TUPE across?

Why then did Sevco Scotland have to get permission from RFC to use their players in the Ramsden’s cup tie of 29/07/12?

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upthehoopsPosted on7:11 am - Jun 12, 2014


Caught a glimpse of the Daily Record back page this morning, and Sepp Blatter is getting it in the neck again. I think we should be glad the tabloids in this country are so principled in their stance against corruption, because we know they would be down on the authorities in this country like a ton of bricks at the slightest hint of anything untoward. They would…wouldn’t they?

Alternatively there is a plan that could redeem Mr Blatter. When the current incumbent finally vacates the President role at the SFA Mr Blatter could apply for the position, stating his interest in Scottish football was forged from the great Rangers teams from the heady days of the late 80’s and 90’s. Once in position he would then be treated by the media as the most honest, dignified, principled and downright decent bloke you could meet. Any hint of corruption allegations would be met with widespread media derision, amidst the theory that Scotland is incapable of any corruption whatsoever…well at least in football anyway.

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mcfcPosted on9:35 am - Jun 12, 2014


Business Plan Change for MSM and Spivs ?

Is it possible that the bears are beginning to get it, and the MSM must pander to a different received wisdom and that the spivs will find that the gullibility factor build into their “business plan” can no longer be relied upon – making life much more complex and much less profitable ?

Rangers supporters demand the truth from ‘split’ board about club’s cash flow Daily Record 07:47

Who is calling the shots at Rangers, asks Union of Fans Glasgow Evening Times 07:09

Rangers fans urge Wallace to clarify mixed messages The Scottish Herald 03:16

Rangers supporters query chief executive Graham Wallace over share issue Daily Mail 01:05

Rangers share issue could happen ‘within weeks’ The Scotsman 00:14

Graham Wallace branded ‘a lame duck’ by Union of Fans Daily and Sunday Express 00:09

Rangers ponder share issue Football 365 18:03 Wed, 11 Jun 2014

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/Football/Scottish+Championship/Rangers

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Danish PastryPosted on9:37 am - Jun 12, 2014


Interesting wee bit from Richard Wilson on the BBC:

In the first instance, existing shareholders are normally offered enough additional shares to maintain the size of their overall stake. Any shares that are not taken up could then be offered to existing shareholders to allow them to increase their ownership stake.

It is also theoretically possible, though, for the board to place shares with specific existing shareholders, which could strengthen the power base of the group of aligned shareholders who currently effectively run the club. That would, though, be likely to agitate those left out and potentially cause further upheaval.

However, Easdale and his proxies could then be considered as acting as a concert party if their combined shareholding goes above the 29% threshold, and so expose them to takeover panel rules and regulations.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27804525

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tomtomPosted on9:51 am - Jun 12, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
June 12, 2014 at 9:37 am

“However, Easdale and his proxies could then be considered as acting as a concert party”

================================================
I can just see Sandy as the Sgt Major, James as Gunner Graham and Wallace as Lofty 😀

View Comment

twopandaPosted on10:10 am - Jun 12, 2014


Danish Pastry says: at 9:37 am
Interesting wee bit from Richard Wilson on the BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27804525

First class article from Richard Wilson DP
Blimey

View Comment

FinlochPosted on10:10 am - Jun 12, 2014


EGT – Fighting the good fight for us all…. But whom is he fighting?

Eddie Goldtop and people like him who sponsor individual teams are critical to the success of our game.
They are often heavily involved in the communities their clubs play in and may not even trade outside these local areas.
Of course they want their clubs to do well but they also often “invest because they care about their communities.
Their “investment” is returned mostly from local feel-good factors and in theory the more successful the team the better their return.
And yes the media value of their name being associated with their club can also work for them too but in many cases their sole motive is the “lift” they get in the community they trade in and often live in

This is a very different situation to sponsors who sponsor leagues or cups like William Hills or broadcast companies like Sky and BT
Typically they don’t trade in only one area or live in or particularly care about the community.
They are not sponsoring any league or cup because they feel that it would be good for the game or any local community.
They do it for commercial reasons and that is usually the media value they can extract from the “relationship”.
Media value of football fan audiences is high because it is very difficult to “reach” the key young male target audience in traditional mainstream media and their media advisers see football sponsorships and football live on TV as a way of reaching or attracting this important grouping.

This clash of motives explains much of what we have seen since the meltdown and explains much of what has passed and also much of what is to come.

In simple terms EGT and local sponsors want their club to win everything, fairly and so do the clubs and all their fans.
Local sponsors do that as part of a community and the naked media value of the spend is only part of the motive and only part of the benefits.

Equally simplistically Mr Doncaster and Mr Regan are charged by the self same member clubs to sell the sponsorship rights of their leagues, national teams and also the viewing rights of as many games as they can package for as much as they can*.

They are packaging and selling numbers to faceless corporations not local contacts they meet every week.
What they are primarily selling is access to male readers/viewers.
The media package is greatly enhanced by a complicit MSM who have pages and pages to fill and who provide free branded publicity.

Doncaster and Regan may talk platitudinally from time to time about “transparency” and “integrity “ but the only integrity that drives them is the bottom line they can extract.

And to them the media values and tv viewing-figures of a league which suddenly was about to lose, then lost it’s (possibly) “most supported club” and (certainly) it’s “most cherished entity” were a driving force.
They feared “Armageddon”.

So if we accept the old adage “He who pays the piper calls the tune”’
Doncaster and Regan head up allegedly democratic organisations there for the benefit of the clubs and the game.
They are there because our clubs put them there.

Our club heads who put Doncaster and Regan in post- people we all know like Petrie, Lawwell. Cameron, MacGregor, Thompson Milne et al from Wick to Stranraer need people like EGT to keep spending locally.
In fact they have local commercial departments dealing with the EGTs of this world and without these revenues would have to make substantive changes to their business plans.

But

These same heads like Petrie, Lawwell. Cameron, MacGregor, Thompson Milne et al again- every club from Wick to Stranraer constantly ignore their commitment to EGT and to their fans when it comes to their tacit unquestioning acceptance of income from “National Accounts” like TV, Satellite and League and Cup sponsorships negotiated by the likes of Doncaster and Regan on their behalves.

This makes them jointly and severally complicit in everything that has happened.
No only are they treating all the EGTs up and down the country like fools they have compromised all the fans whose money and support is the very reason they have an existence.

So Good luck EGT.
Cut them to the quick..
it’s a dirty business but …
Arbroath FC needs strong EGTs
Scottish Football needs strong EGTs
Scottish Football needs just one strong chairman to start the evolution.

* They are not very good at selling it

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Danish PastryPosted on10:29 am - Jun 12, 2014


tomtom says:
June 12, 2014 at 9:51 am
3 0 Rate This

Danish Pastry says:
June 12, 2014 at 9:37 am

“However, Easdale and his proxies could then be considered as acting as a concert party”

================================================
I can just see Sandy as the Sgt Major, James as Gunner Graham and Wallace as Lofty
———-

Haha, that ain’t half a concert party!

I thought the phrase was ‘acting in concert’? But ‘acting as a concert party’ adds a nice wee bit of humour to the scene. Each man blowing his own trumpet, so to speak.

Still, the reflection on the 29% business shows a bit of awareness about what might actually be going on in private.

View Comment

AllyjamboPosted on10:38 am - Jun 12, 2014


twopanda says:
June 12, 2014 at 10:10 am

“Dave King, the former Rangers director, wants to invest directly in the club.”
_____________________________________________________-

An improvement, tp, but not exactly accurate. Could have been a bit more accurate by saying Dave King wants to invest other people’s money in the club! He could also have pointed out that Wallace’s plan included austerity measures, and that he’d made it clear the club was already paying the players over the odds, and more than they could afford, for the level they were playing at. Still reads more like a free PR piece for Dave King than anything else, and I wonder if he’s about to re-appear in the saga.

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hectorPosted on10:57 am - Jun 12, 2014


Phil this morning claims a new share issue as well as the share option is on the cards. http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/fever-pitch/

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on11:31 am - Jun 12, 2014


mcfc says:
June 12, 2014 at 9:35 am
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Business Plan Change for MSM and Spivs ?

Is it possible that the bears are beginning to get it, and the MSM must pander to a different received wisdom and that the spivs will find that the gullibility factor build into their “business plan” can no longer be relied upon – making life much more complex and much less profitable ?
______________________________________________________________________________

The gullibility factor will always be there because they want to be gullible. They want to believe the moonbeams and boasts as it’s what their club/company/ethereal entity is built on.

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AuldheidPosted on11:38 am - Jun 12, 2014


Finloch

In your post you highlight the problem when you lump Doncaster and Regan together in chasing commercial values. There is no one or remit to ensure that in doing so the integrity of the sport as a sport is not compromised.

I agree that the “solution” attempted came from both SFA and SPL and so the clubs, fearing the loss of what they viewed as a major contributor to the commercial success of Scottish football, but I’m not so sure that the pursuit of that success was by the design of the clubs.

I reckon it was more of a Topsy thing ie it just growed rather than was deliberate. It growed by housing both organisations in the same building, it growed because of the traditional structures of governance, which saw committees populated by self serving club men in influential positions to for example first ignore the existence of ebts and side letters ( for example Campbell Ogilvie and Andrew Dickson) then cover up that knowledge, plus of course Topsy was free to grotesquely roam in the absence of accountability of either organisation except to themselves.

It took supporters to bring the sporting integrity balance back into football and great as the crimes against football as a sport were in allowing Topsy to grow, there will be a greater crime if nothing is done to cut Topsy down and replace it with structures and a culture that makes sure growth is healthy and incorruptible.

The question is are there enough clubs who realise the need for fundamental change that are prepared to table a motion at a general meeting ( annual or extraordinary ) that demands a review into the events of 2011 and thereafter taking earlier causes into account with a view to recommending changes or is the Topsy factor still presiding?

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bluPosted on11:45 am - Jun 12, 2014


Some information from the Scottish Information Commissioner on Freedom of Information applications that may be of interest to GCC and EDC.

The Commissioner’s general interpretation, as set out in her guidance[1] on section 14(1), is that the following factors are relevant when considering whether a request is vexatious. It:
• would impose a significant burden on the public body
• does not have a serious purpose or value
• is designed to cause disruption or annoyance to the public authority
• has the effect of harassing the public authority
• would otherwise, in the opinion of a reasonable person, be considered to be manifestly unreasonable or disproportionate.

A recent decision (119/2014) found that although it was reasonable for a campaigning organisation to ask for information relating to their concerns, the tone and frequency of their communications had become unreasonable.

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on12:02 pm - Jun 12, 2014


hector says:
June 12, 2014 at 10:57 am
The Share Issue will be underwritten by the main players in RIFC.
The hope-nothing more-is that the market will smile on the austerity measures.

View Comment

JimBhoyPosted on12:14 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Another player comes rolling into Ibrox, austerity you say..!!!

Didn’t Waldo in his 3 month review say Mather should not have allowed all those new players in at Ibrox…

View Comment

pau1mart1nPosted on12:32 pm - Jun 12, 2014


con ? cert ?
subliminal message from Richard Wilson ?

View Comment

MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on12:38 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Talking of gullibility and moonbeams…. does anyone remember when Rangers were going to buy Man City?

The way it was reported by the Scottish press was that City were very much to be the feeder club junior partner but that doesn’t quite square with the quotes below. Who’s have thought it, the Scottish press twisting things.

The plan appears to have been to make Man City “the Rangers of England”. The personification of dodging a bullet there I think!

http://mcivta.com/mcivta/4/84.html
———————————————————————-
Murray May Be Back

Of course, most of the comment on investment centred round the self-confessed interest, scuppered by UEFA’s dual ownership regulations, of Glasgow Rangers chairman David Murray. “We had three meetings with Manchester City last year with a view to me buying the club,” he admitted. When asked whether he’d contemplate a renewed bid, he replied, “Yes, I’d consider that.” The opportunity may arise if ENIC (who ironically own a stake in Rangers) are successful in their legal efforts to overturn UEFA’s ruling that only one team in which they have a legal interest may enter European competitions – they also hold shares in Vicenza, AEK Athens and Slavia Prague. They obtained an interim judgment last summer, but there’s no word on when a final ruling can be expected. Judging by his fulsome comments on the club, buying City appears to be an idea which genuinely excites Murray. For this reason, I certainly wouldn’t rule out Murray coming back with another proposal if the final ENIC judgment is along the same lines and if the club fails to tie up a deal with another party in the meantime.

In Murray’s view, City “could have become the new Rangers of England”. He continued, “It’s a club with tremendous potential – it’s even bigger than Manchester United.” As is only to be expected if he considers City “bigger” than the world’s richest club and able to emulate a team which looks set to win its tenth national title in eleven years, there’s no prospect of Murray adjusting his sights and attempting instead to take control of another English club. “Manchester City were definitely the only club we looked at and we are certainly not interested in any other clubs,” he emphasised. Coming from a man with Murray’s pedigree in running a football club, this is certainly a testimony to City’s commercial potential should the club manage to achieve a modicum of success. Murray closed by reflecting that City “shouldn’t be in that division. They are meant for better things, and I hope that through me or through someone else they will get that at the end of the day.” He won’t get any argument from me on that score.
———————————————————————

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on12:42 pm - Jun 12, 2014


PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:02 pm
6 0 i
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hector says:
June 12, 2014 at 10:57 am
The Share Issue will be underwritten by the main players in RIFC.
The hope-nothing more-is that the market will smile on the austerity measures.
_______________________________________________

What austerity measures?

Signing Kenny Miller? Making promises to acquire more higher quality players? Arranging a tour of North America?

View Comment

mcfcPosted on12:54 pm - Jun 12, 2014


MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:38 pm
========================================
Did SDM ever tell anyone in Manchester about his grand ambitions – looks like Sheik Mansour made a big mistake and bought the feeder club instead of the biggest club in the world – haven’t laughed so much since Ally McCoist dribbled on about youth being the future.

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mcfcPosted on1:00 pm - Jun 12, 2014


MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm
What austerity measures?
=================================================
I think there are signs that RIFC/TRFC are losing their grip on the MSM – so maybe they’ve been economizing on the lamb and other largese. Charlie Green knew how to treat them mean and keep them keen, but I think the taxi boys don’t have the emotional intelligence of a fish supper. So the MSM may be forced to scavenge for scraps elsewhere and perhaps learn to fend for themselves. God forbid they mutate into a free thinking, inquiring fourth estate.

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wottpiPosted on1:01 pm - Jun 12, 2014


MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm

Agreed. Did CEO Wallace not say way back in December at the AGM the club was spending too much.
While other clubs are shedding players etc we so no such moves at Ibrox. (Probably because it is too expensive).
Other than a few unreported/unconfirmed redundancies that’s been about the extent of the cost saving and austerity.
All we hear about is more players, new appointments of high heedyins, money spent on US tours and IT schemes.

It is going to take something big like dumping MP to help make ends meet.

I hope they know that they are doing!!

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on1:12 pm - Jun 12, 2014


wottpi says:
June 12, 2014 at 1:01 pm
1 0 i
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MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm

Agreed. Did CEO Wallace not say way back in December at the AGM the club was spending too much.
_________________________________________

Yes the soundbites have been coming for almost a year now but as far as I can see without any action other than a pathetic request for the players to voluntarily take a wage cut.

Perhaps Selling MP could be seen as an austerity measure but is really just yet another desperate one-off sticking plaster measure rather than evidence of a forward looking sustainable approach to assure any potential investors

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FinlochPosted on1:13 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Auldheid says: June 12, 2014 at 11:38 am

Finloch

In your post you highlight the problem when you lump Doncaster and Regan together in chasing commercial values. There is no one or remit to ensure that in doing so the integrity of the sport as a sport is not compromised.
………………………………..
Agree totally.
It crept up on them all and now the Armageddon Boys have boxed our game into a nasty deteriorating corner where tv audience is everything and the clubs just have to agree that there will be issues along the way.
Also agree that much of it was chaotic and not thought through.
The turmoil will stay until they realise that the gold standard model they are trying to recreate never worked in the first place.
There is something wrong with our football administrator’s mind set was when the biggest attraction was the maintenance of a nasty bogited tribal dispute between our two best supported clubs and when the biggest focus is the reinstatement of it and all the nonsense and baggage that came with it.
Eddie Goldtop has right on his side but the contradiction of “national” revenues coming ahead of what is right for the clubs and the game will prevail unless one club chairman takes a public stance and starts an overdue evolution.

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on1:21 pm - Jun 12, 2014


MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm
I have the details of Kenny Miller’s personal terms.
Very modest for a player of his level.
I understand that the cost of the Nth American did not come from the club’s resources.

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nawlitePosted on1:43 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Phil, when I heard about the Rights issue, I thought I could see the sense in it for the current ‘owners’ i.e. Laxey apparently being the main drivers of this/most likely purchasers, as it would increase their level of control if other existing shareholders chose NOT to invest further. If they ARE in it for the property, this would make sense.

I can’t see how a share issue where anyone can buy – including DK if he wishes – helps the current ‘owners’. Is it that the money situation is so dire that they’ll put up with the likes of King buying in? His ‘back where we belong’ rhetoric is surely at odds with the austerity with which you say they hope to tempt other investment. Or are they so sure that King can’t/won’t invest that a share issue is safe? I can’t come up with a reason for a share issue that might lessen their control.

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on1:49 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Afternoon all.
so RIFC are to raise £8m from a share issue?.
Their projected ST sales were 39k,an increase of 4k on last season and at an average increased price of around £300.Income £11.7m
According to the UOF sales are around 16k therefore income of £4.8m.
there’s a shortfall of £6.9m at this time.
Basically,after expenses the share issue cash is wiped out.
Now if say 10k more STs are sold them income from sales would be £7.8m.
More may pay on the day and if 10k paid an average of £20 over 18 home games then income will rise to £11.4m with an average attendance of 36,000.
Other income like merchandising,hospitality etc may push total income up to a similar sum as last year of around £20m.
With,as yet,no visible signs of any austerity measures then TRFC will still be heading for an 8 figure loss next season.With wages accounting for 95% of turnover then genuine cost cutting can only be achieved by slashing the football budget.Something GW has promised will not happen.
If 50% of the share cash is used to fund austerity then there will be an increase in losses as this cash will not be available to meet running costs.There is also the matter of £1m to be repaid in a couple of weeks followed by £500k a couple of months later.
Figures are speculative of course but using what we have,unless at least another £10m is found then TRFC will struggle to see the end of the coming season.
The problem is that if major cuts are made to the playing squad then promotion cannot be guaranteed.Another season in the championship may be the final straw for the fans.
Somewhere along the line they’ll have to accept,as the Hearts fans did,to their credit,that survival is more important than chasing Celtic.They should be building a foundation from which to grow,rather than dreaming of the CL in 2 years.
I may be wrong but I cannot see any appetite from the city for another public share issue so this one is from that point of view,their last throw of the dice.the figures don’t stack up.
BP,Marguarita,Laxey etc will soon though,own over 75% of RIFC and will be able to act as the wish without interference.The only thing left that could raise reasonable cash would be a disposal of assets,with MP already on the market we’re told.
Meanwhile Ally continues,I assume with the boards blessing,to add to the playing squad.
I must admit,I’m struggling to understand it all.

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mcfcPosted on2:08 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Alcohol and Tobacco Relaunched

From PMG “However, a club playing at Ibrox, living within its means will not be fit for purpose as a vehicle for the expression of hubristic Herrenvolk invective.” http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/fever-pitch/#more-4750

It seems clear that the spivs and asset strippers will not leave the current ltd company, plc and club until its bones are bleached in the sun with no morsel of flesh remaining for others to pick. The mill stones of status that dragged it down will crumble and fade – think of New York in We Are Legend.

But will there still be a need for a football club for a large section of the Glasgow population to support? Perhaps there will be several new clubs formed. But who will have what it takes to form and run and grow a successful club in the long term as a sustainable business. Will it be modern Scots driven by the love of the sport and the thrill of the game or will it those who put so much energy into the baggage of social division and events of centuries past. Will it be the optimistic, generous, gregarious, inclusive types or the bitter, divisive, arrogant, insular types.

Personally, I think it will be the former – there’s room in the world for another Richard Branson, but not for another Ian Paisley. Times and standards and mores move on imperceptibly while we are busy living our lives. Walter Raleigh caused a sensation when he introduced these islands to tobacco in the 1600s, but try to launch a product today containing over a hundred carcinogenic toxins and you wouldn’t get far. Try to introduce a recreational drug that causes domestic violence, liver damage and road deaths and your project would be doomed from the start. We seem able to tolerate the intolerable from the past, but recreating it afresh draws a wholly different evaluation and reaction. Once the link with the past is broken, the old standards no longer apply.

So if there is to be an entirely new club to challenge Celtic in Glasgow, with no useful remnants of the old to build on, I think it will be a force for good and of little interest to the more “traditional” bears.

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RyanGoslingPosted on2:20 pm - Jun 12, 2014


MCFC – in other words, exactly what should have been established when given the opportunity in 2012.

Very good analogies btw.

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AuldheidPosted on2:31 pm - Jun 12, 2014


On selling Murray Park from a Celtic supporter’s perspective although it could have an impact on the other clubs:

In his latest blog

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/fever-pitch/ Phil says

” At the meeting agreement was finally reached on Murray Park.

I would be very surprised if it is available as a training ground for Ally McCoist’s men next season.”

Now my question is how can The Rangers adopt a scout, develop and sell policy if the do not have the means of quality development, assuming of course they will have scouts?

Does the possible sale of Murray Park mean their policy will be to buy in the best that have been developed, or purchased cheaply and developed by other Scottish clubs and what will Celtic do to make sure their model more than matches the player quality of anything The Rangers can field?

Do Celtic simply outbid The Rangers for the same player if Celtic think he would add more value being at Celtic than being at Ibrox?

Will Celtic always be in a position to do that exclusive of CL money?

Or should I really be worrying if my pot of yogurt will go off before the sell by date?

View Comment

PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on2:32 pm - Jun 12, 2014


mcfc says:
June 12, 2014 at 2:08 pm
Spot on.

View Comment

tomtomPosted on3:20 pm - Jun 12, 2014


mcfc says:
June 12, 2014 at 2:08 pm
==================

How long do you think this new club would survive? Whether we like it or not, it is the racist/bigot/orange/watp pound that has, to a very large extent, sustained the current entity. CG tugged at these heartstrings, played to the gallery and found his customer base. Without them his grand plan would have foundered. Without them any future RFC would also struggle – that, unfortunately, is the harsh reality, no matter how much we might wish for it not to be so.

View Comment

scottcPosted on3:21 pm - Jun 12, 2014


tomtom says:
June 12, 2014 at 9:51 am

Danish Pastry says:
June 12, 2014 at 9:37 am
“However, Easdale and his proxies could then be considered as acting as a concert party”
================================================
I can just see Sandy as the Sgt Major, James as Gunner Graham and Wallace as Lofty 😀

… and Gloria?

View Comment

MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on3:29 pm - Jun 12, 2014


PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
June 12, 2014 at 1:21 pm
7 1 i
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MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm
I have the details of Kenny Miller’s personal terms.
Very modest for a player of his level.
I understand that the cost of the Nth American did not come from the club’s resources.
_______________________________________

Thanks for clarification. Still not evidence of austerity i.e. any reduction in costbase

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on3:37 pm - Jun 12, 2014


MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 3:29 pm

PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
June 12, 2014 at 1:21 pm

MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm
I have the details of Kenny Miller’s personal terms.
Very modest for a player of his level.
I understand that the cost of the Nth American did not come from the club’s resources.
_______________________________________

Thanks for clarification. Still not evidence of austerity i.e. any reduction in costbase
=======================================
Ah, I think I’ve sussed out the strategy now !

After TRFC brought in the oxymoronic, highly expensive, cost cutting consultant Phil Nash – and following the Wallace ‘120 days’ review – they know where the austerity measures need to be taken.

It’s just that they have also decided to implement these austerity measures only when the last penny has been squeezed out of all available sources. 😆

[TSFM – you may need to start a separate thread for the “It Ain’t Half Hot Mum” oldies… 🙄 ]

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redlichtiePosted on3:38 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Sod Off Sepp fund started – football fans pay a pound to get Sepp Blatter to quit FIFA. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sod-off-sepp
Target is £1M but just £12 raised so far….

Could we possibly start a CO fund to pay off his EBT? I’m sure that would be an incredible weight off his mind…

The ‘Good Night Out’ Fund, perhaps? Maybe score out the “Out” and substitute “Campbell”?

Maybe the MSM could publish regular pole-type images showing how much has been raised?

Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

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Danish PastryPosted on3:38 pm - Jun 12, 2014


tomtom says:
June 12, 2014 at 3:20 pm
2 0 Rate This

How long do you think this new club would survive? Whether we like it or not, it is the racist/bigot/orange/watp pound that has, to a very large extent, sustained the current entity …
——–

Or how long before the same groups turn up and attach themselves to any new entity? You’d think a new club must have a different outlook, or some kind of alternative constitution or set of founding principles.

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Para HandyPosted on3:42 pm - Jun 12, 2014


tomtom says:
June 12, 2014 at 3:20 pm
7 0 Rate This

mcfc says:
June 12, 2014 at 2:08 pm
==================

How long do you think this new club would survive? Whether we like it or not, it is the racist/bigot/orange/watp pound that has, to a very large extent, sustained the current entity. CG tugged at these heartstrings, played to the gallery and found his customer base. Without them his grand plan would have foundered. Without them any future RFC would also struggle – that, unfortunately, is the harsh reality, no matter how much we might wish for it not to be so.
=============================

I don’t altogether disagree that certain elements want whatever incarnation plays at Ibrox to exemplify the historical attitudes that all right-minded people want to see the back of, however, based on personal experience, I believe they are in a minority.

Were a club/company/team to rise again from whatever ashes are left after the spivs have picked and burned the carcass, I reckon many of those who were scunnered from the Whyte/Green fisaco could be brought back into the fold of a more modern, inclusive Ibrox club/company/team. It might not be quite the worldwide draw it once was ( 😆 ) but if they draw on what few brand positives are left, it might have a fighting chance.

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scapaflowPosted on3:52 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Auldheid says:
June 12, 2014 at 2:31 pm

I’d worry about your yoghurt.

Two points on selling Murray Park

Firstly, they need someone prepared to buy a site beset with difficulties

Secondly, whatever figure might appear on the balance sheet, any asset is only really worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

Enjoy the World Cup everyone, even if it involves a certain amount of holding of noses, for planet fitba is surely the most corrupt planet in the sporting universe.

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RyanGoslingPosted on3:53 pm - Jun 12, 2014


I agree Para Handy, I think they are in the minority. None of the season ticket holders / casual attendees / general followers I know care in the slightest about the list of undesirable attributes listed by TomTom. In fact, I for one would enjoy going to games more and be happier as a Rangers fan if that element would just bugger off.

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RyanGoslingPosted on3:56 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Having said the above, this group are vocal and dedicated and certainly responded to Charles Greens sales technique in numbers,

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Danish PastryPosted on4:01 pm - Jun 12, 2014


So who wants MP? A large sports organization? Would the one based at Hampden be interested?

View Comment

mcfcPosted on4:04 pm - Jun 12, 2014


tomtom says:
June 12, 2014 at 3:20 pm
How long do you think this new club would survive?
========================================
tomtom – I’m thinking that by the time the spivs and asset strippers have finish, the Rangers brand will be worthless or even a negative-value burden to a new club. A genuinely new club (or clubs) would need to start outside the SPFL and build from grass roots. Ibrox and MP will be financially out of reach for a start-up – even if they remain intact. Many start-ups fail – but there is a big enough potential market for one to make it.

I agree that CG found his market instinctively – but he was looking for a mob to rabble-rouse for a quick buck, not an intelligent, discerning clientele to cultivate over years to support a sustainable business. I believe both groups exist – one has a future, and one has proven that it cannot even restart an established business with every possible help from its powerful friends after shedding £100m of debt.

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scapaflowPosted on4:05 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
June 12, 2014 at 4:01 pm

That could be the best outcome. Move the SFA HQ to MP, (is Hampden actually required?), at a stroke we get an excellent football academy and 1st class facilities for the national team. My only worry would be that the SFA would buy the site, and then give a sweetheart deal to rangers, effectively giving them exclusive use of the facility for a peppercorn rent

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Para HandyPosted on4:38 pm - Jun 12, 2014


An interesting BBC article from their Political coverage where Lord Triesman, ex head of the English FA compares FIFA with the mafia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27801996

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Para HandyPosted on4:40 pm - Jun 12, 2014


How much would they get for MP? I suppose the loss of £1.5m in monthly outgoings is as important, however, they need to cut deeper than that.

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wottpiPosted on5:46 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Para Handy says:
June 12, 2014 at 4:40 pm

As discussed a while back if MP does go then the savings will no doubt be welcomed but there will also be costs in securing and renting alternative facilities.

If the place is to go then not only does it bring into question how they are best placed to develop home grown talent etc etc but aslo, if they survive that long, how are they going to attract the quality of player required to have a decent crack at the domestic titles and Europe if they are training on some cooncil owned ash park????

The attraction of signing for Rangers in the past was surely the tax avoidance benefits and the Big Time Charlie operation including the five star facility at MP.

With the possibility of austerity and having to rent/share training facilities will the Rangers name and a few extra quid still be enough to attract as many home grown bench warmers as in the past. Or will guys just say no thanks I’ll stay put and get first team football in a club that has just as good a chance at the battling in the league and gaining Euro football?

For homegrown talent and imports alike, if there is a choice of the two Glasgow clubs being offered at some point in their careers, then surely the deck is currently stacked in Celtic’s favour.

To be honest if they are playing the long game then I would have thought mothballing and scaling back operations at MP is the way forward because if they do survive it could still be an asset if steps were taken to run it in a more sustainable manner.

While Phil Mac is confident of the operating costs given to him they do seem exceptionally high and there must be room for cloth cutting. After all how much does grass cutting, white lining and cleaning out the changing rooms cost? Go back to basics and use the place as a simple training ground and then build up elements of the facility and operation as you can afford it.

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the taxman comethPosted on6:31 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Para Handy says:
June 12, 2014 at 4:40 pm

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How much would they get for MP? I suppose the loss of £1.5m in monthly outgoings is as important, however, they need to cut deeper than that.

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well green got both iPox and MP for 1.5M 2 years ago

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on6:46 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Para Handy says:
June 12, 2014 at 4:40 pm

£1.35M P Mnth

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mcfcPosted on6:59 pm - Jun 12, 2014


PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
June 12, 2014 at 6:46 pm
====================================
Phil – £1.35M P Mnth seems a colossal amount. I may have missed previous discussions – can you give any hints to the major components – repayments, staff, onerous contracts to previous regimes perhaps.

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mcfcPosted on7:23 pm - Jun 12, 2014


Well I Never . . .

. . . . thought I’d post a link to followfollow on here, but this is actually worth a read. Factually a bit rough around the edges and the conclusion could be more courageous given the arguments presented – but the very fact that these ideas are being aired shows that the times, they are a changing.

http://www.followfollow.com/news/tmnw/the_new_board__same_as_the_old_board_834506/index.shtml

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