Good Evening,
Whilst it is understandable that the continuing events at Ibrox remain a hot topic among all Scottish Football Fans — especially given the views of some sections of the press on such events– the never ending rush down the marble staircase is certainly not the only show in town.
The other morning we were treated to the “scoop” that Alistair Johnstone is afraid that Craig Whyte– the once proclaimed Multi Billionaire from Motherwell- may well still be pulling all the strings at Ibrox! This is a fear which is shared by those who walk the corridors of Hampden Park as they, too, are terrified of the prospect of Whyte returning in some shape or form and coming back to haunt them, especially as he has been deemed unfit and proper, banned sine die, and generally ridiculed for his past actions.
However, the Hampden jackets know fine well that their realm only stretches so far and that if by means of the proper application of company law, contract or some other piece of paper Whyte controls the shareholding of the self proclaimed “parent company” to the football club then they are in a fix. In fact, I will wager that they just would not know how to deal with such a situation as after all RIFC PLC neither holds a licence to play football nor is a member of the SFA and so, on the face of it, who owns it has nothing to do with them.
At this juncture, no one in authority knows who Blue Pitch Holdings are and, strangely, no one in authority knows who Margarita Holdings are either! Yet these two “holdings” whoever they may be, may well hold all the power down Govan way…… with the SFA completely powerless to find out who they are let alone get into any dialogue with them. All the SFA can do is talk to the appointed Directors and officers of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This, is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Meanwhile, they will have no difficulty in finding out who the new shareholders of Dunfermline Athletic are. Those shareholders will come from the fanbase and will be clearly registered at Companies House, with the result that ultimately those fans/shareholders will appoint Directors who will then attend meetings and speak and opine on their behalf and in essence be the ” Voice of Dunfermline” at Hampden.
Perhaps, similar will follow from Heart of Midlothian?
However, those at Hampden — if they have any sense at all– will be most wary of events happening in the east end of Glasgow come November.
In the middle of the month, Celtic PLC will hold its AGM and amidst the items on the agenda is the fan driven notion that the Club— through its Directors—- should go further in holding the SFA to account and enquire into the granting of club licences, and in particular how it granted Rangers a club licence that allowed entry to the Champions League in 2011 when the small tax case was outstanding.
The Celtic board have deemed this motion as “Unnecessary” and in support of that contention have released documentation showing that they raised this very issue with the SFA on behalf of the shareholders and fans. Further– and here is the rub— The Directors reveal that they were not satisfied with the SFA response and have disclosed that they took the matter further and wrote to UEFA.
Ultimately, UEFA also provided a reply, which backed the SFA approach and which Celtic had little option but to accept in the absence of admissible contradicting evidence..
It is on this basis, that Peter Lawell and Co say the AGM motion is not necessary. Note that saying that the motion is not necessary, is not at all the same thing as saying that what the motion seeks to achieve is not necessary or does not have the support of the board!
There will be those at Hampden who severely hope that the Celtic Board are successful in voting this measure down as obviously they deem their original reply sufficient and would like to end the discussion there.
However, my own view, is that whether the motion is successful or not, there are those within the SFA who will recognise there is trouble staring them in the face here. Real Trouble!
Let’s recap for a moment and draw some threads together.
Celtic’s past Chairman, Dr John Reid, said only a couple of years ago that the SFA was clearly not fit for purpose. He did so in the context of events surrounding Neil Lennon and other matters, but was unshakably robust in his condemnation of an institutionalised uselessness which he saw pervaded the Hampden ranks.
Prior to that, Henry McLeish produced a report which stated that he too had concerns about the Governance of Scottish Football and called for openness and transparency.
In the intervening period, we have seen Mr David Longmuir, former Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League, find himelf without a position following reconstruction– and this partly as a result of club chairmen being apparently kept in the dark about his payment, bonuses and expenes. I understand that there was considerable anger from some at the way in which they had been treated by Mr Longmuir.
Then there is Mr Campbell Ogilvie, El Presidente, who himself benefited from a Rangers EBT and who held sway at Ibrox during a period of time when Rangers– by their own admission— made unlawful and illegal payments to three high profile players in breach of tax laws and SFA/SPL rules. It is these breaches and the consequent Wee Tax Bill which has caused all the angst among Celtic fans and has lead to the highly regulated legal step of tabling a motion at the club’s AGM.
Basically, the position seems to be, that as at the due date when the appropriate documents and declarations were made for a Euro Licence by Rangers for 2011, the wee tax bill was outstanding and due. If it was overdue, then the SFA could not and should not have granted them a licence……. and potentially Celtic should then have been put forward as Scotland’s representatives in the Champion’s League.
However, that did not happen, and Ranger’s were granted a licence– something that the Celtic Directors clearly felt was not correct.
They may have disagreed with the awarding of the licence because there were those at Rangers at the time who declared that a payment to account had been made to the tax office– allegedly £500,000– and that they had entered into an agreement to make payment of the balance by instalments. Had that been so, then all would have been hunky dory and no more would have been said.
Alas, however, no such payment appears to have been made at all, and no such agreement was entered into and so, on that basis, the tax bill was overdue and outstanding as at 30th June in terms of Article 66 and as such no Euro Licence should have been granted.
However, the argument does not end there.
Auldheid, has posted frequently on these pages about the ins and outs of the licensing provisions and the mechanism and so I will leave that detail to him as he is far more expert in these areas than me.
Now, one of the SFA functions is to have an auditor– someone who can check books, contracts, paper work and so on, and it is part of the SFA licensing function to be satisfied that all the paperwork is of course correct and in proper fashion before they issue any licence.
In this case, it is alleged that the SFA did not perform their function properly.
In relation to the wee tax case, it is said that either they did not make sufficient enquiry of Rangers re the payment to account or the agreement which they were told was in place. At the time it was mooted in the press that no such agreement was in place as at the relevant date ( June 30th ) and a simple check with the revenue would have shown the truth of the matter.
Yet, for whatever reason, no such check appears to have been made, and if you recall a Radio Scotland interview with Alistair Johnstone, Rangers submitted the forms, the SFA replied with one or two enquiries about the BIG tax case which were answered, and thereafter the Licence appears to have simply dropped through the letter box without further ado.
You will also recall that the existence of the wee tax case became known BEFORE Craig Whyte bought David Murray’s shareholding in May 2011. In fact it was the subject of News Paper headlines weeks before the deal was completed, and so the fact that there was a wee tax bill was well and truly in the public domain.
When it came to filling in the appropriate forms,either, the SFA were mislead by those then at Rangers with regard to that tax bill, OR, they simply failed to do the requisite checks and make reasonable enquiries before they issued the licence.
However, the uncomfortable fact also remains, that one of the chaps who must have been in the know re the admittedly unlawful and offending side letters, contracts and payments to the three players concerned was Campbell Ogilivie who was on the Rangers Board at the relevant time when the contracts and irregular payments were made under the Discount Options Scheme from 1999 to 2002/3. Indeed he may even have initiated the first payment to Craig Moore in 1999. I reiterate that no one has ever contested that this was an unlawful scheme, and the irregular payments and paperwork are not denied in relation to that scheme.
There are Celtic shareholders who believe, rightly or wrongly, that when it came to the granting of the Euro Licence, the SFA did not play them fair on this occasion and that the wheels within Hampden were oiled in such a way that Rangers were favoured and Celtic were disadvantaged. It is a point that looks to have already been considered by the Celtic Directors in 2011, with the result that they concluded that they should formally write to the SFA and seek clarification.
However, we now have the prospect of those same directors having to go back to Hampden and say ” Sorry, but I am forced to bring this up by my shareholders. I have a legal duty to them to enquire further”. Even if the motion is refused, the point has been made– there are shareholders who are demanding answers– just as shareholders of other clubs demand answers about the ever so secret 5 way agreement and other matters which have hitherto been not for public consumption.
The SFA have nothing to fear of course as they can simply repeat their previous answers,demonstrate that all was above board, and rest easy in their beds.
Except that answer did not satisfy the Celtic Directors on a previous occasion as they decided to take the matter to UEFA, and it would appear that some Celtic shareholders remain dissatisfied with the known stance of the SFA and so they want the Directors of the club to delve further. Without wishing to point out the obvious, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted rigorously or that those at Hampden were in any way economical with the truth or omitted certain details from the previous explanation, or covered up a failure in procedures—- well such omissions have a habit of becoming public these days whether that be through the internet or otherwise.
The point here is that the actions of Hampden officials are coming under organised, legal and planned corporate scrutiny over which they have no control. The Blazer and club mentality that was once so widespread within the governing bodies is under increasing attack and is being rendered a thing of the past.
In short, the move by Celtic shareholders, is making it plain that they will demand proper corporate governance from their club in ensuring that any alleged failure in corporate governance by the SFA or SPFL is properly investigated and reported on.
Of course, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted properly for whatever reason, then it could be argued that Celtic were disadvantaged in monetary terms along with other clubs who may have been awarded Europa League licences, then the consequences could be cataclysmic. Hence a tendency to circle the wagons rather than admit to failures in the process that need addressing.
It is this reluctance to come out and accept that the licensing process appears to have failed, say at what point the process failed and what needs to be done to address those failures that in many ways has driven the resolution. It is clear to all that something is amiss but the SFA will not admit it, probably from fear of the consequences of doing so? Perhaps some form of indemnity, a lessons learned enquiry with no prejudice might help?
It would come as no surprise to me at all if there were those at Hampden who live in dreaded fear of admitting that their processes were flawed and that a grave mistake was made. Under these circumstances, there may well be those at Hampden who simply wish that Celtic and their fans would just go away!
Here in Spain, Celtic fans are regarded as a fun-loving lot who like to party.
I posted last week about the friendship formed with the Villarreal fans.
It’s true that the Spanish are somewhat bemused by the quantities of alcohol consumed, as illustrated by this piss-take by the popular Catalan comedian Andreu Buenafuente following Celtic’s visit to Barcelona in 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO87YC3H270
(specially for Barcabhoy :))
In my previous post I raised two choices for those with TRFC at heart. They could buy out the spivs behind the scenes or they could pay up, for want of a better word, honestly. Is there another possibility? I agreed with the opinion above that today’s ‘chap on the door’ was initiated by Whyte, a shot across the bows along the lines of, “if we’re divvying up now lads don’t forget me” Might it actually be the brogues that are raising the game (don’t forget Charlotte’s handy drop this morning for instance)? Essentially trying to rewind a bit (to 1993 😆 )sorry, to maybe 8 months or so ago and then trying for another go? Would seem a very dangerous ploy with licences etc at risk but then a/ they are desperate and b/ they still know a man in office who can help 😉
I still think its fanciful, but when was any of this affair something ordinary?
Smartbhoy says: (94)
November 12, 2013 at 11:40 am
4 2 Rate This
blackboab says: (15)
November 12, 2013 at 11:16 am
__________________________
Your question is, are Celtic fans thought of better than old Sevco/Rangers fans our is it just our perception.
a) Amsterdam and it’s events were discussed to death last week, on here and various other social media websites, there’s no point bringing it back up.
b) Go and research yourself about what peoples thoughts are. I as a Celtic fan can give a neutral point of view without ” Green Tinted Specs ” .
c) Go and ask your friend to give you more facts, backed up with evidence regarding this list they sent you.
d) The morning that it becomes public that Craig Whyte and his connection with Green is under police investigation and the licence for Sevco/TRFC to play football in Scotland could be revoked, you trot out a stupid list, that is factually not true…… spells only one thing to me……..troll.
ok..i take your point..thought i would have a few more balanced viewpoints about this but i guess i was wrong..i didnt realise we had to stick to one story on this forum..i thought it was a valid question after last week and the fallout from it . interesting to me that some of the celtic fans are as closed off to reality as the sevco fans..
regarding this police investigation…does anyone here really believe anything will come of it ?…or the forthcoming bdo report…it will be the continuing whitewash to follow the ebts and the years of unregistered players playing for rangers..rangers kept their past titles despite blatant cheating ?.. sevco will implode from the inside…when the spivs call time on their cashcow…not from the outside where all the relevent bodies are trying to protect them as much as possible…no matter what they have done…
blackboab says:
=============================
Personally I believe there is more chance of things coming from the BDO investigation. They are highly trained professionals and will get to the bottom of what actually happened.
I say that on the basis that HMRC will want a thorough investigation carried out. If they do not then there may not be the will, or the funds, to investigate things properly.
I do live n the hope that the truth will out in regards to RFC/SEVCO 5088/SEVCO SCOTLAND/TRFC/RIFC.
That hope is not a this week hope, it is that some combination of vested interests will for their own ruthless self interest bring the story back out into the open.
Cannot see it being the SFA. AIM have a chance, BDO have a chance the mythical Pinsent & Mason report had a chance, but it was hushed up/nobbled.
Bizarrely if the SPIVS had not been so deliberate with their RFC/TRFC/RIFC asset stripping they may have fooled the ibrox season ticket holders fr another £8 million.
As rightly posted earlier , John Browns address on the ibrox steps seems more and more sensible with every passing month. I do not understand how he was “re-educated” because he was most of the way to destroying the new-born SEVCO.
Buddy
blackboab says: (16)
November 12, 2013 at 10:01 am
……………………………..
Boab…Celtic fans are not perfect …but I did have a look at the list…and if you are indeed a Celtic fan…you would have researched the list yourself.
I can confirm that I know at least 2 on that list to be false based on personal knowledge of the claims. The rest I recognise from several SEVCO fan sites who have either created or embellished a story to fit an agenda…
Boavista was a story ran by the Record I believe…who had to print a retraction…the plane in question was full of holiday makers with around a dozen Celtic fans on board, one being my cousin…the plane was prevented twice from taking off due to ‘technical issues’…when eventually it did take off…it suffered engine failure dropping the plane some distance and resulted in it to being diverted to Cardiff airport…but somehow the SMSM got it wrong….funny that…oh and the retraction I believe was on the bottom of page 28 next to an advert for hair treatment or something or other…this story now appears as fact on many SEVCO sites..
Boab your attempt at anti Celtic point scoring is a waste of time…
Tif,
To me BDO can only come to three outcomes (its noticeable that the person seemingly championing BDO the most just now is P Murray btw).
Outcome 1. Assets were sold too cheap, mainly due to restriction on buying pool. That sucks and must never be repeated should such a situation arise again. Common sense will out, eventually.
Outcome 2. Assets were sold too cheap, mainly due to restriction on buying pool. That is wrong and additional funds must be returned to liquidators pot. It is unclear if there would be appetite to do this since I suspect the spivs would just ‘fold’ again. I am unclear what footballing implications there would be.
Outcome 3. In lieu of the fact that the assets collectively, whether correctly or not, referred to as ‘the club’ continue to be the cash equivalent of a sea gull with no wings carrying an anvil then the assets were actually correctly valued, job done, fees collected and we’re out of here. RIFC/TRFC? Nothing to do with us pal!
Tif Finn says: (774)
November 12, 2013 at 12:18 pm
2 0 Rate This
blackboab says:
=============================
Personally I believe there is more chance of things coming from the BDO investigation. They are highly trained professionals and will get to the bottom of what actually happened.
I say that on the basis that HMRC will want a thorough investigation carried out. If they do not then there may not be the will, or the funds, to investigate things properly.
===============
I agree,
If there is a desire for court proceedings against the actors in the RFC Liquidation then the BDO work is key to it as they have the carcass of RFC (IL).
I think craig whyte (who has previous !) is high on their list due to his other behaviours in putting assets beyond the reach of the creditors.
Also, I expect all those involved in the deliberate withholding of PAYE/NI/VAT (RFC finance controller) will get it tight, the reason being if they do not get it tight then every failing company will stiff HMRC for 9 month PAYE/NI/VAT and this country will soon have an unpaid tax level like greece.
Buddy
Boab,
I’m not a Celtic fan, and I can tell you that most of that litany is just absolute nonsense. The supposed incident at the Man City game with the brick being chucked at a kid is probably the most famous example of a non-existent event on the list. It didn’t happen.
That’s not to say that all Celtic fans are all sweetness and light – they do have a problem with a small group of egotistical fans whose sense of worth is far out of proportion to their place in things, and despite appeals from the club, continue to behave in a manner that just embarrasses them.
However, in the ‘whataboutery’ stakes (which I guess is what your real point is about), they don’t even register on the same page as the fans of Rangers and their spiritual successors. If a handful of arrests is enough to justify an incident on your list, then you might as well have an entry for every week on the equivalent list for Rangers.
buddy_holly says: (61)
November 12, 2013 at 12:27 pm
As rightly posted earlier , John Browns address on the ibrox steps seems more and more sensible with every passing month. I do not understand how he was “re-educated” because he was most of the way to destroying the new-born SEVCO.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bombers re-education is simple. Bomber was (according to the man himself) threatened when a car pulled up alongside him. His words in a Scotland on Sunday (I think) article. Somebody might have a link to it. I can’t find anything and I’m sure I only ever saw an image of the article.
This article may also be relevant.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/dundee-s-john-brown-urged-to-stop-rangers-talk-1-3068970
Shooperb says: (326)
November 12, 2013 at 12:42 pm
3 0 i
Rate This
blackboab says: (16)
November 12, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Boab,
I’m not a Celtic fan, and I can tell you that most of that litany is just absolute nonsense.
————————————————-
So the idiot who ran onto the park and tickled Dida’s chin was “lashing out” at the AC Milan keeper? And the clown who wandered onto the pitch at the Man U game represented a full scale pitch invasion?
And why would 24 arrests in Barcelona go unreported when about half a dozen arrests after violence so obviously orchestrated by Ajax hooligans and dodgy police agent provocateurs is plastered all over the front page of the Daily Record and Is the top news story on STV 6pm news?
Hard to believe a Celtic fan with any passing interest would fail to see through those statements right away.
A bit like expecting us to believe MM had no idea the phrase “No Surrender” could have any possible unsavoury implications.
“FTP” seems to be about the only cry from the RFC reportoire that some director/CEO/chairman/manager/Rangers man of Rangerness has not used in public but I would honestly not be surprised if it was only a matter of time. Things are that bad and they seem to be able to act with impunity.
Smugas says:
================
I think BDO’s role is much more than looking at the assets and what happened to them, albeit that iwill be their primary concern.
I think they are there specifically to establish exactly what happened and who was responsible.
Once again it is worth looking at Malcolm Cohen and why HMRC specifically chose him.
“Malcolm is a Licensed Insolvency Practitioner with thirty years business restructuring and insolvency experience. Malcolm has extensive knowledge across a range of sectors including, financial services, property, professional services, shipping and not for profit. Malcolm leads the firms’ National Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud. He also leads the firms’ Corporate Streamlining Team.”
I have never believed that this was just about liquidating the assets and winding up the business. Not the way it has all played out. If the Police are interested in Craig Whyte and his potential involvement in things then they will be looking to work alongside BDO in doing that.
On the assault on the Milan keeper.
It was an idiotic thing to do but here’s the reality. People can draw their own conclusion.
I’m sure there are better video’s out there, the incident is towards the end of this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc-xuLu98Bw
It is worthy of note that
a, Half of the £25,000 fine for “A lack of organisation and improper conduct of supporters at the Celtic Park match.” was suspended, so the club actually paid £12,500.
Peter Lawwell commented
“As a club we feel this penalty is proportionate to the incident in question and a fair outcome.
“We took this matter extremely seriously and following an immediate internal investigation took swift and firm action against the offender.”
They banned him for life.
b, The keeper was given a 2 match ban for “A lack of sportmanship”
I don’t know if he appealed that, or what the result was if he did.
buddy_holly says: (62)
November 12, 2013 at 12:35 pm
4 0 Rate This
I think craig whyte (who has previous !) is high on their list due to his other behaviours in putting assets beyond the reach of the creditors.
=================================================
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-16912365
(Includes Mark Daly TV broadcast of same – approx 4 minutes)
BBC Scotland has uncovered evidence which suggests Rangers owner Craig Whyte may have lied in court.
During a civil case last year, he told Glasgow Sheriff Court his seven-year ban from being a company director did not relate to treatment of creditors.
But the judge who imposed the ban said company assets were “put out of the reach of the creditors”.
…
Registrar Simmonds ruled that “the assets of the company (Vital UK) were put out of the reach of the creditors on a somewhat dubious delayed basis”.
The ruling continued: “Shortly after that Mr Whyte put the company into a members’ liquidation disclosing promissory notes as an asset.
“This seems to me to be a self-seeking action with regard to the company. If this is too harsh, then the degree of recklessness shows Mr Whyte to be thoroughly unfit to be a director.”
MoreCelticParanoia says: (52)
November 12, 2013 at 12:53 pm
Tif Finn says: (776)
November 12, 2013 at 1:04 pm
=======================================
Guys, please stop with this. If Boab’s an innocent abroad he’s been guided in the right direction. If he’s a troll he’s been guided in the right direction.
blu says: (430)
November 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm
1 0 Rate This
Guys, please stop with this. If Boab’s an innocent abroad he’s been guided in the right direction. If he’s a troll he’s been guided in the right direction.
————
I agree blu, it is a perfectly reasonable question to raise, although it sounds a bit like the type of thing Greenock Jack would ask when some new stuff is breaking.
Boab, you’ve probably asked the right question at the wrong time. You’ve maybe come looking for something to counter your pal’s point with, but tally any team’s supporters dubious actions up and they’ll make a nice list. There’s also been instances of police brutality abroad affecting many teams from the UK, including RFC. The Amsterdam story has yet to be told but it already looks like a huge balls up by the Dutch police. And that it has happened to other team’s supporters within the past year really makes you wonder what the Dutch police’ game is.
I’m a non-Celtic supporter (but a Scotsman abroad) who’s actually been to two away fixtures within the past year and saw only fans having quiet drink in and around the stadium and in town bars.
blu says:
======================
Stop what exactly.
I’m afraid I think people pinning their hopes on BDO to unwind the asset sale and sink Sevco are going to be sorely dissapointed. After all, HMRC who are ultimately BDO’s pay masters in this case have given their ill fated blessing to a team playing football at Ibrox. They didn’t want the hassle and political ramifications of shutting down the big house then and they certainly don’t want it now. BDO’s instruction is to build a case to pursue individuals at RFC(IL) for damages, notably SDM pending success at the UTT, and possibly also CW. But their scope and remit only applies to RFC(IL) and does not extend to Sevco.
MalkieMouth @MalkieMouth 5m
RIFC and Close Brothers investment.
http://i.imgur.com/rph3i2c.jpg
ratethisthenyabampots says: (90)
November 12, 2013 at 12:46 pm
5 0 Rate This
buddy_holly says: (61)
November 12, 2013 at 12:27 pm
As rightly posted earlier , John Browns address on the ibrox steps seems more and more sensible with every passing month. I do not understand how he was “re-educated” because he was most of the way to destroying the new-born SEVCO.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bombers re-education is simple. Bomber was (according to the man himself) threatened when a car pulled up alongside him. His words in a Scotland on Sunday (I think) article. Somebody might have a link to it. I can’t find anything and I’m sure I only ever saw an image of the article.
This article may also be relevant.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/dundee-s-john-brown-urged-to-stop-rangers-talk-1-3068970
====================
Thanks for that i have always thought that over the year and a bit since, someone would have asked john brown for more details.
I demand to know who these people in the car are ? who they represent ? and the details of the conversation?
So, a single warning was sufficient t completely quieten a “real” rangers man, john brown.
I have enough experience of rangers supporting glasgow/govan good guyswho would not have let that lie. And I also have enough experience of rangers supporting glasgow/govan bad guys who you cannot threaten.
We shall find out someday.
Buddy
I’ve moved all that stockpiled popcorn to the front of the cupboard. Juicy details are now weekly, where before they have been monthly then fortnightly, it won’t be long before it becomes a daily spectacle.
They are right in that there will always be a rangers but I am enjoying the whole lot of them squirm as the sordid details are revealed for all to see.
Tif Finn says: (778)
November 12, 2013 at 1:10 pm
3 0 Rate This
buddy_holly says: (62)
November 12, 2013 at 12:35 pm
4 0 Rate This
I think craig whyte (who has previous !) is high on their list due to his other behaviours in putting assets beyond the reach of the creditors.
=================================================
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-16912365
(Includes Mark Daly TV broadcast of same – approx 4 minutes)
BBC Scotland has uncovered evidence which suggests Rangers owner Craig Whyte may have lied in court.
During a civil case last year, he told Glasgow Sheriff Court his seven-year ban from being a company director did not relate to treatment of creditors.
But the judge who imposed the ban said company assets were “put out of the reach of the creditors”.
…
Registrar Simmonds ruled that “the assets of the company (Vital UK) were put out of the reach of the creditors on a somewhat dubious delayed basis”.
The ruling continued: “Shortly after that Mr Whyte put the company into a members’ liquidation disclosing promissory notes as an asset.
“This seems to me to be a self-seeking action with regard to the company. If this is too harsh, then the degree of recklessness shows Mr Whyte to be thoroughly unfit to be a director.”
===========================
I read the Private eye magazine. They have covered this part in far more detail, even went to court and got access to the sealed court papers in the public interest. There is a reasonable number of articles over the last two years on whyte, green, RFC, SEVCO, RIFC.
There is one in the latest issue, with a glaring error, “that RFC exited administration” PrivateEye/.Mr Hislop is going to get requested to correct that by me.
Not quick enough another is published today….
Buddy
iamacant says: (365)
November 12, 2013 at 1:42 pm
1 0 Rate This
MalkieMouth @MalkieMouth 5m
RIFC and Close Brothers investment.
http://i.imgur.com/rph3i2c.jpg
=====================
Slightly strange email….
First it is to Charles Green, but first line is “Malcolm…”
Second, it is about “The Glasgow Rangers Plc” … … who are they? does The Glasgow Rangers Plc play international professional tiddlywinks?
Again what is it telling us … ?
Imran Ahmed is due his commission cut?
There is another company somewhere? What is the role of close brothersi n all of this?
Bearing in mind they are the first secured credit against RFC(IL) fixed charge to do with catering improvements if I remember correctly.
Buddy
iamacant says: (365)
November 12, 2013 at 1:42 pm
http://i.imgur.com/rph3i2c.jpg
………………………………………………….
I was interested to read Imran’s email spelling out to Charles that Charles would need to find £60M to “Buy the Club”.
Not a bad lift in a few months from what Duff and Phelps signed off as the best they could get for the creditors.
How on earth is this allowed to happen?
buddy_holly says:
===========================
I think strictly speaking they did exit administration, by going into liquidation.
As I understand it there are three ways out.
Pay your debts and move on.
Agree a CVA, satisfy the terms and move on.
Go into liquidation.
Now I know it is misleading to say they exited administration, as it suggests they survived. However is it strictly speaking true.
It’s interesting that Ahmad said to Green
“We are certainly not going to stop the IPO process while you make up your mind”.
Amongst other things.
That doesn’t read as someone who was being subservient. I note that it comes from Ahmad’s Zeus email address, suggesting he was still working there at the time.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=12590482&t=8837773
It would appear that Pinsent Masons did, in fact, do a thorough investigation into the links between Green and Whyte.
Which concluded that Sevco 5088 was a joint Green-Whyte project which attracted many millions of pounds of investment, with the Whyte shares being hidden behind the screen of Blue Pitch (Mazen Houssami – Abelas’ lawyer), Norne Ansalt (Abela), Margarita Holdings (Abela), Elias Kaisar (Abela), Riad Haddad (Abela) and Asia Credit (Chris Morgan – Abela).
That’s the Abela family from Beirut, Lebanon, who have links to Monaco (like Whyte) and Grasse, the perfume capital of France, where Whyte also had business connections.
Those Sevco 5088 shares were then transferred almost in total to Sevco Scotland, with Blue Pitch and Margarita seen as the most significant shareholders.
The Whyte link to Sevco 5088 is clear.
The Whyte link to Sevco Scotland is hidden behind the Abela curtain.
FC Spivco said Whyte had no link to Sevco Scotland. They said nothing about Sevco 5088.
It would appear Police Scotland now have their hands on the full Pinsent Masons report.
A moment of total panic for the Spivs.
And the Brogues.
And the SFA.
Because if the truth is revealed, the SFA membership of FC Spivco has to be rescinded.
So place your bets: Will it be Greenock Rangers or Cowdenbeath Rangers?
paulsatim says:
================================
If this is true then it looks awfully like another “Wow, just wow” moment.
Tif Finn says: (780)
November 12, 2013 at 2:14 pm
1 0 Rate This
buddy_holly says:
===========================
I think strictly speaking they did exit administration, by going into liquidation.
As I understand it there are three ways out.
Pay your debts and move on.
Agree a CVA, satisfy the terms and move on.
Go into liquidation.
Now I know it is misleading to say they exited administration, as it suggests they survived. However is it strictly speaking true.
===============
Fair enough….
i will get the exact sentence and put it up with my proposed letter to the editor.
We can rip to shreds and ensure my advised correction is bang on the money.
Buddy
I think Imran was actually addressing Malcolm Falconer, rather than Charles Green. Question though, who is Malcolm Falconer?
This is an interesting bit from follow follow.
=========================================
“I pointed out the last paragraph, now that paragraph stated the Acting Chairman David Somers is actively seeking to strengthen the board with new appointments with the support of the MAJORITY of share holders
It doesnt say that anymore. Have a look it now says
Following discussions with a NUMBER of shareholders Acting Chairman David Somers is actively seeking to strengthen the board with new appointments.”
============================================
I mentioned at the time the implication was that the majority of the shareholders were behind the current board. It would appear they have backed off from that significantly.
scottc says:
=============================
I agree it’s confusing, the email is addressed to Green (copied to Malcolm Falconer), but it starts with “Malcolm, ”
However it also goes on to say “Pls stop talking about buying the club …”
In any case, whoever he was speaking to Ahmad comes across as someone calling the shots. Much as he came across in the bullying phone call with Malcolm Murray, when he basically treated him as an idiot child.
Ahmad and Stockbridge were the Zeus’ men on the board, Stockbridge is still there controlling things. Stockbridge worked for Ahmad at Allenby Capital, they both moved to Zeus.
Who is working for whom. Who are the puppets and who are the puppet masters.
Tif Finn says: (781)
November 12, 2013 at 2:33 pm
1 0 Rate This
paulsatim says:
================================
If this is true then it looks awfully like another “Wow, just wow” moment.
===============================
I would also concur.
Campbell Oglivie will have to go into overdrive to save SEVCO now.
The SFA must be reminded of its rules.
All those who perpetuated the lies required to facilitate this part of the scam will be quite happy to disappear off with the property assets selling TRFC to “real” rangers men.
As it would effectively leave TRFC without a national association and therefor RIFC would become a property company.
The The Rangers Football Cub (TTRFC) would quickly be conjured up and handed the licence, though TTRFC would have no money, no ground.
There seems a long time until the AGM occurs.
Someone has seen the Pinsent Mason report, maybe jim traynor, someone will eventually bring it out, either before or after court.
Tune in later today for the next episode of the SEVCO saga.
Buddy
An opinion
Its all about money and OPM at that
So
Excluding the genuine Bears who bought into the IPO
The rest are Spivs irrespective of the nameplate on their holding
Meaning, Spivs acquired control ofRIFC and TRFC using money borrowed from Spivs of the faceless variety
Few respectable businesses lend to Spivs ( although occasionally an insider is bribed )
As you go down the Spiv food chain you encounter more and more dubious characters.People who will take on the Loonies if it makes them enough money
These people expect to be paid back with interest and wont mind the consequences.They wont be visible anyway
No wonder a revolving door has been operating at RIFC and TRFC.
Cut and run is the driving force for the original Spivs They have figured the end game could turn nasty with angry Bears being forced to pony up or face extinction of TRFC
This change of Spivs will start happening when the lockin period expires
However the same principle can help us predict what will happen
What generates the most cash for the Spivs at the bottom of the food chain ?
My money is on
Administration of TRFC with assets moved to RIFC
Followed by liquidation of RIFC
Asset moved offshore where they will sit unused
Ordinary (and wealthy) Bears threatened with closure of Ibrox unless a deal is done to acquire the assets
There might even be a formal request to the governing bodies to parachute TRFC into the SPL …….To providing SPL level ST money to pay off the Spivs….all in the interest of avoiding a second Armageddon
We shall see
If this next incarnation isn’t called Third Rangers, I’m going to be well cheesed off.
You know what I am quite looking forward to armageddon 2.
In this case the SEQUEL may actually be “better” than the original armageddon.
“better” may mean all or some or any of …… funnier / more technical / more criminal / less-of-a-cover-up / better for scottish society / Rangers going to Real Rangers Men / fully according to the rules ….. depending n your point of view or persuausion.
Buddy
GoosyGoosy says: (468)
November 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm
.
My money is on
Administration of TRFC with assets moved to RIFC
Followed by liquidation of RIFC
Asset moved offshore where they will sit unused
===========
I don’t see the advantage in liquidating RIFC. A members’ liquidation of a PLC would be a long and messy process, and I could imagine the fans trying to block it in the courts if they saw their beloved Ibrox disappearing into the sunset, no doubt once again at undervalue, because the spivs simply could not resist stiffing the bears one last time.
The easy way is just to transfer all the property into the PLC, in satisfaction of TRFC’s outstanding debts, give TRFC to the brogues, and rent out Ibrox to them on nice easy terms- for a year or two, at least. That method leaves the AIM market available as an exit route for anyone wanting out, and as a pure property investment company, RIFC would probably attract investor interest.
neepheid says:
===========================
And the limited company could float if it so chose, get another few quid from the fans who own about 11% of a property company rather than the football club they support.
They would really need to raise some money from somewhere and with few tangible assets and a loss making business they would find it difficult securing funding. Unless people were willing to put their own money into the private Ltd company.
BlackBoab
Perception is reality!!! (can’t recall who said it, but it’s broadly true in modern society/culture)
I have to admit, i’m a little disappointed with some of the replies to Blackboab calling him out for being a troll (which i firmly believe he is by the way)
But ignoring the trolling nature of the post, it does actually make a good (or interesting) point
Just how good are the Celtic fans? There have been instances on many away trips (and home games too) Why are they portrayed as being better than RFC (now deceased) or Sevco fans?
Could it be that the overwhelming impression left by a visit from the hoops is a good natured, friendly affair – with a couple of bad eggs to grab the headlines? Or is it a case of an invasion with violence and intimidation at every turn?
My own (green tinted) view is that by and large, the arrival of the Celtic support is like the arrival of the Tartan army, a large number of fans, drinking and singing and mixing with the locals – sometimes over friendly, and sometimes leaving a mess, but on the whole, leaving a positive impression which the locals see and recognise for the good natured banter that was intended
This is reflected in how welcome the club and it’s fans are wherever they go, and how often they are invited to play in tournaments/friendlies further afield.
of course, take 10,000 young football fans abroad, let them fill their boots with drink and there are bound to be some who overstep the mark and get into bother and who offend the locals. In some cases this might be petty theft, loutish behaviour but it could lead to more serious assaults and damage to property.
Rather than directly compare Celtic to Sevco/Rangers, i think it would be more useful to look at football as a whole…..
Is there a comprehensive list of arrests at away games (domestic and abroad) for every team – and is there an indication of the numbers travelling?
if 10,000 go abroad and 40 get arrested – it’s 0.004% but if 100 go abroad and 40 get arrested – thats 40% – not so good.
i’d be interested to see the numbers of Milan/Juve/Bayern/Madrid/Barca/Man U /Chelsea/Arsenal fans arrested at away games – as well as celtic/Sevco/Aberdeen/Hearts/Hibs etc
With my green tinted specs on, i’d say the locals don’t enjoy the invasion from RFC fans….a touch more aggression, not quite the same banter……not likely to be welcome back, but maybe just the same number of arrests (even if the MSM won’t report on it)
neepheid says: (897)
November 12, 2013 at 3:10 pm
The easy way is just to transfer all the property into the PLC, in satisfaction of TRFC’s outstanding debts, give TRFC to the brogues, and rent out Ibrox to them on nice easy terms- for a year or two, at least.
===========================================
I think you’re right. This is how it will pan out and it confirms just how unlikely and unusual it is for a football club/team to be completely obliterated as long as there is a some support for it and as long as there is someone who will buy the few remnants of the club and can get a ground to play in. After that they are perfectly entitled to crack on with it and best of luck to them. (cf Airdrie and possibly Hearts) They are of course a new club but that doesn’t mean they can’t draw a crowd and make a go of it. I realise that that maybe does not fit in with the aspirations of “the people” but they’ll get used to it.
The interesting bit, for me, is the exposure of the corrupt and arrogant wheeling and dealing that has gone on throughout this disgraceful chapter about this disgusting entity in Scottish fitba so keep up the good work.
Tif Finn says: (784)
November 12, 2013 at 3:30 pm
And the limited company could float if it so chose, get another few quid from the fans who own about 11% of a property company rather than the football club they support.
They would really need to raise some money from somewhere and with few tangible assets and a loss making business they would find it difficult securing funding. Unless people were willing to put their own money into the private Ltd company.
===========
I don’t think that floating TRFC (minus the properties) would be a realistic option. There would surely be zero institutional interest, after all, what price could you put on a heavily loss making company, whose only tangible assets are a few pretty mediocre football players, worth no more than £2m in total. So it would be entirely down to the fans, who managed to find £5m last time. Even if they did the same again, £5m is just two months running costs. Hardly seems worth it.
So if that’s a non-runner, and since all the real Rangers sugar daddies seem to have arms too short to reach their very deep pockets, then the only survival plan is genuine cost cutting, which means cutting running costs in half, at least. Goodbye Ally, at that point, we all say, but of course that brings us to the real problem- a load of people, and not just players, on mega long term contracts. Getting rid of overpaid players can be done, you can sell them or give them a free, and hope someone else will take on their wages. Non- playing staff are the real problem, because for most of them, there’s nowhere else to go at even half their current wage. And why should they do walking away? I know I wouldn’t.
I just can’t see any way out for TRFC.
I knew something was in the wind today. Could feel it in my nicotine. The D.R was just bustin with Sevco Propaganda today . Front page, Back page, page 5, then inside the back page.with full pages devoted to Butcher and Weir both ex captains of Sevco……. A bit like “Squirrels Weekly”….The Newspaper for Squirrel watchers in Scotland.
Full of Red Herrings, Baddies, Goodies, and another Chief Exec from another club who has always been a Sevco fan. Well no surprises there.
But they also have another go at Whyte,(worstest baddie) just to remind us all how big a Baddie he is/was. If it is discovered by the Police (baddies) that Whyte still has a connection to Sevco (Goodies) then the SFA (Rank Baddies) could revoke their Licence. But now with a new Chairman and Chief exec (baith Goodies) the Board room is looking stronger again, which should allow the bears to sleep easier tonight. And they all lived happily ever after………..Well at least till the Morra………
neepheid says:
=======================
Oh, I agree and have said so for some time. It’s difficult to see any way out, hence my “What then” question.
Even with a transfer of assets the only possible way out I can see is a fresh start, done properly this time.
Administration, assets to the PLC, make just about everyone redundant and a fresh start. If Bryan Jackson can get Hearts sorted out fairly soon he would be available to do it.
GoosyGoosy says: (468)
November 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm
…
There might even be a formal request to the governing bodies to parachute TRFC into the SPL..
===========================
GG – I have had a sneaking suspicion for a while that the above maybe on the cards, if the ‘worst case scenario’ transpires for TRFC.
To stabilise the Govan club – and for the ‘good of Scottish football’ – I can see Ogilvie / Regan / Doncaster trying it on again with the Scottish football fans.
Regardless of the latest AGM / cash flow problems, there is just too much ‘football risk’ involved to simply expect McCoist to get TRFC into the top league at the earliest opportunity – if at all.
Neepheid 3-10
So if that’s a non-runner, and since all the real Rangers sugar daddies seem to have arms too short to reach their very deep pockets, then the only survival plan is genuine cost cutting, which means cutting running costs in half, at least. Goodbye Ally, at that point, we all say, but of course that brings us to the real problem- a load of people, and not just players, on mega long term contracts. Getting rid of overpaid players can be done, you can sell them or give them a free, and hope someone else will take on their wages. Non- playing staff are the real problem, because for most of them, there’s nowhere else to go at even half their current wage. And why should they do walking away? I know I wouldn’t.
________________________________________________________________
I think neepheid has the nub of it here. All of the assets belong to the spivs. The club operates at a loss and as such for the spivs it has no logical continuing function once the money runs out and they can no longer charge exorbitant fees for running the thing. .
No-one is providing the readies to free the club from the Spivs. I mean literally no-one!
The spivs will clean out the assets into RIFC and if no-one buys the assetless debt-ridden loss making carcass that is TRFC then they can blame the “Real Rangers Men” for being all talk and no action as they “regrettably” cease trading.
The crisis this time is infinitely greater than the original liquidation, then the SFA bailed out the spivs by giving them their licence to play football and rob the Bears. No such rescue seems credible this time.
McColl or King or whoever would need to find 30 million ( this time of their own money) to keep the thing afloat and be prepared to operate the club as a loss making vanity project on an ongoing basis ( does anyone really have ten million a year to throw away on such a venture in perpetuity) whilst facing the ire of a support fed upon grandeur and delusion by an absurd press and media cadre.
No-one will touch it – I reckon. It would be a disaster financially and emotionally for anyone stupid enough to become involved, and no good could ever come of it.
As the weeks and months steadily pass I am becoming ever more convinced that no club in Blue at Ibrox will be with us in any guise in the not too distant future.
Of course I could easily be wrong – I just have not seen any credible plan put forward to take any Rangers forward in anything other than the shortest term.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (1015)
November 12, 2013 at 3:39 pm
===========================================
NTHM, I agree re blackboab and think you make a number of good points but I think that discussion at the moment would embroil us in a lengthy roundabout discusson back to the point we started at, with lots of whataboutery. Luckily, yet another timely CF disclosure has provided a new source of discussion.
iceman63 says:
========================
And also … it is worth bearing in mind the FFP rules.
If someone is continually putting money into a loss making football club then they are unlikely to qualify to play in lucrative European competitions.
“Announcement” on AIM re the Pinsent Mason report, Police action etc.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=11771894
Company Rangers Int. Football Club PLC
TIDM RFC
Headline Comment on Press Speculation
Released 15:51 12-Nov-2013
Number 8446S15
RNS Number : 8446S
Rangers Int. Football Club PLC
12 November 2013
12 November 2013
Rangers International Football Club plc
(the “Company”)
Comment on Press Speculation
Incorrect stories concerning the Company have appeared in the media today and yesterday concerning allegations that Craig Whyte still has links to Rangers, which the Company would like to clarify. Pinsent Masons has not reported to the police that Craig Whyte has any connections to the Company. A separate matter was reported to the police by Pinsent Masons, on behalf of the Company. That matter related purely to director appointment form which purported to appoint Craig Whyte as a director of Sevco 5088 Limited.
One of the reasons the investigation report has not been released was because a matter was reported to the police. The Company did not wish to do anything that may undermine any police inquiries into the issue. The Board of directors have at all times acted to protect the interests of the Company and the Company’s ability to take legal action.
The Company regret the need to disclose this issue but it is necessitated by the incorrect and speculative articles that have appeared in the media. There has also been speculation in the press on the impact that a police investigation has on the Club’s SFA licence to play football. To confirm, there are no grounds for the SFA to withdraw the Club’s membership.
The Company also notes that former Chairman Malcolm Murray dismisses the allegations concerning Craig Whyte’s supposed involvement with the club.
For further information please contact:
Rangers International Football Club plc
Brian Stockbridge
James Easdale
Tel: 0141 580 8647
Daniel Stewart & Company plc
Tel: 020 7776 6550
Paul Shackleton / James Thomas
Newgate Threadneedle
Tel: 020 7148 6143
Graham Herring / Roddy Watt / John Coles
Media House International Ltd
Tel: 020 7710 0020
Jack Irvine
Some of you familiar with East Kilbride will know all about this but I’ve just discovered that there’s a thing called Alistair McCoist Complex. Can anyone tell me what the symptoms of that condition might be?
Tif Finn says: (787)
November 12, 2013 at 4:38 pm
“The Company also notes that former Chairman Malcolm Murray dismisses the allegations concerning Craig Whyte’s supposed involvement with the club”
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Iamacant also notes that Malcolm Murray is quoted in today’s press that he is “pretty sure” CW is not involved.
Now, “pretty sure” is not the same as “definitely not involved”
If you are “pretty sure” you are just guessing.
Did Malcolm Murray have a role at RIFC PLC when the Pinsent Mason “investigation” was carried out.
blu says: (431)
November 12, 2013 at 4:25 pm
1 0 i
Rate This
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (1015)
November 12, 2013 at 3:39 pm
===========================================
NTHM, I agree re blackboab and think you make a number of good points but I think that discussion at the moment would embroil us in a lengthy roundabout discusson back to the point we started at, with lots of whataboutery. Luckily, yet another timely CF disclosure has provided a new source of discussion.
——————————————
I happen to think what NTHM said about Celtic fans applies to the fans of all Scottish teams and the nationa side; with one exception. I think fans of any club would prickle at a serious comparison being made with their behaviour and that of a club infamous for a litany of violent behaviour, and an ethos and songbook that appears to revel in it.
The question itself was divisive and distractionary (is that a word?). Rather than it being a comparison of Celtic against Rangers “are Celtic as bad as Rangers” or “are Celtic the greatest angelic fans in the world ever and do they deserve this wonderful reputation”, a more appropriate question would be – why is only one Scottish club notorious thoughout Europe for violence and threatening behaviour? Note the threatening part – it’s as much the angry supremacist attitude that can rub locals up the wrong way as any actual violence.
As far as I can see, the fans of the Tartan Army and any other Scottish side competing in Europe get on just fine on their travels and enjoy a positive reputation, it’s just that Celtic fans get to travel more and there are more of them
buddy_holly says: (68)
November 12, 2013 at 2:12 pm
There are only 2 Malcolm falconers listed at Co House – one listed as a football agent. Quick search of google etc does not reveal any links to close bros – I would assume that this is an alias, as per some other emails.
Does not remove the question, who is it?
So according to TRFC announcement, the polis are not looking at CWs involvement, and why would they? It’s not a crime for him to be involved I don’t think. I would imagine they are looking at a crime, and based on their previous in this saga, will be waiting till the buns stop flying before they get out the motor.
Not related to any current conversations so please feel free to ignore
I thought I would have a wee look at the attendance figures for this year compared to last to see the effect of Rangers journey through the ranks of Scottish football.
The (formerly Div 3) Division 2 clubs have, not unexpectedly with the elevation of Rangers, seen a reduction on their average crowd (an average of about 400 down on last year, excluding the Queens Park number which, due to their capacity skews the numbers)
The current Division 1 (2 as was) has seen average gates increase by about 500, excluding Rangers gate, as I am trying to see the effect their attempted progress “through the ranks” is having. Interestingly, this includes a near 1000 average gate reduction at Dunfermline and, of course, Rangers have not yet visited everyone so these numbers are likely to increase.
The Championship sees an average gate reduction of just over 200 per game. Dundee’s relegation has seen them shed 1600+ fans per home game, wiht only QoS, Dumbarton and Alloa gaining gate numbers.
The Premiership shows an average gate increase on last year of about 450 persons per home game. Aberdeen’s form sees an increase in their home gate of, on average, over 3000, whilst Hearts fans are resonding to their predicament in a fine way by turning out in greater numbers (over 1750 per home game more). Celtic, too, have seen an increase of over a 1000 and Partick Thistle’s elevation sees around 2,500 more customers per home game. The other clubs have all seen gate reductions with over 500 fewer (surprisingly) wanting to watch Dundee United’s exciting kids and Pat Fenlon’s time at Hibs seeing 1200+ shed from the Hibernian home gates.
As for Rangers themselves, their home gates currently stand ~2,250 lower than they averaged over the course of last year, despite the jump to a new league. This may be indicative of the ease with which they seem to be strolling through their games.
Overall averages, as things stand, we are currently an average of a little under 100 customers per game down on last year. These numbers will change, of course, as we have not had a full round of home games for anyone.
All stats taken from
So the rozzers want to speak to Craigy & Chuck? Well, well, well there’s a surprise. Right up there with the sun coming up in the morning.
There are 37 days to the AGM.
There are 169 days to the end of April.
What chance a viable business plan by then?
Tempus fugit.
Is this more PR people?
Araminta Moonbeam QC says: (11)
November 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm
Wouldnt cost them too much in rent for Cathkin!
Galling fiver says: (13)
November 12, 2013 at 5:12 pm
I’d bring in those Amsterdam plainclothes cops
Still awaiting response….
The Fenian Lamppost @p4ulsatim 4h
@policescotland Can you advise whether you have an Economic Crime Unit, as reported in various media outlets today?Cant find it on your site
SSN… saying rangers he announced to the stock exchange about speculation on shareholding….
no they have not , TRFC are not on the stock exchange.
Also RIFC also have not…..
ie. this statement is not official until it is officially announced to the stock exchange.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5553-misleading-statements-regarding-shareholders
nothing else on the stock exchange…
I did write to AIM yesterday on the misrepresentation of TRFC/RIFC, shareholdings, director shareholings and the regulation of a fair market.
Buddy
EDIT: WHOOPS have caught up with 15:51 announcement… needed a proper page refresh!!
Ahem – here we go again. 🙂
Comment [comment? – is it a regulatory statement – or what?] on Press Speculation [speculation is not downright misinformation – is it now? – jack losing the touch?]
Incorrect stories [What was incorrect? – PR failure was that?] concerning the Company have appeared in the media today and yesterday [Well – sue them why don`t you? ] concerning allegations that Craig Whyte still has links to Rangers, which the Company would like to clarify. [Clarify? – are they true or not?] Pinsent Masons has not reported to the police that Craig Whyte has any connections to the Company. [pinset masons can sue too then can`t they? – Legal guys aren`t feart of a few extra bucks??] A separate matter was reported to the police by Pinsent Masons, on behalf of the Company.[taken their time about it – wasn’t this enquiry more than 6 months ago?] That matter related purely to director appointment form which purported to appoint Craig Whyte as a director of Sevco 5088 Limited. [police are investigating a Companies House form? – Police investigate a CW link to Ibrox? – not a criminal offence – is it?]
One of the reasons [so there was other reasons then – what were they? or “no comment” on that?] the investigation report has not been released was because a matter was reported to the police. [why now – and why hold up publication because a form openly viewed on Companies House Web?] The Company did not wish to do anything that may undermine any police inquiries into the issue. [What could they undermine about an investigation into a company’s house form – that`s pants!] The Board of directors have at all times acted to protect the interests of the Company [wot? no supporters interests then? ] and the Company’s ability to take legal action [well take legal action then – anything wrong with that?].
The Company regret the need to disclose this issue [why?] but it is necessitated by the incorrect and speculative articles that have appeared in the media. [You could just have told them the whole story straight up months ago – and avoided any damaging speculation – so whose “transparency” fault is it idiots?] There has also been speculation [got nothing to hide or be ashamed about then? – then why have so many directors left?] in the press on the impact that a police investigation has on the Club’s SFA licence to play football. To confirm, there are no grounds for the SFA to withdraw the Club’s membership. [nice try jack – but no chance of that washing – too many public statements on CW not being involved in any capacity whatsoever – and legal agreements formed to that effect – including the SFA License] ]
The Company also notes that former Chairman Malcolm Murray dismisses [ “dismisses?” – didn’t he say he was “pretty sure”? ] the allegations concerning Craig Whyte’s supposed [supposed? – Court of Session has copies of the tapes] involvement with the club.
[And aint a few “helping the police ECU [aka Fraud Squad] with their enquiries”? – or is that incorrect speculation?]
More questions than answers – total PR mess
But Hey – but what else to expect after all this time?
Blimey 😉
Tif Finn says: (788)
November 12, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Did Malcolm Murray have a role at RIFC PLC when the Pinsent Mason “investigation” was carried out.
============================================
The Pinsent Mason investigation started around 23/04/2013 and lasted until 15/05/2013.
Malcolm Murray was on the Board of RIFC plc from 07/12/2012 until 08/07/2013.
As per Charlotte this morning, Murray emailed Philip Cartmell on 05/05/2013 and said “the investigation is now uncovering some hairy stuff”.
Malcolm Murray joined Rangers as Chairman when Charles Green formed the new club.
He was thrown out in July 2013, having served any useful purpose the owners hand in mind for him. Specifically getting the fans onside to buy season tickets and shares.
Pinsent Mason reported on the Green and Whyte situation in May 2013, as reported by the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22714334
Therefore Murray was Chairman throughout the entire investigation, right to it’s conclusion.
There is no reason for him not to know exactly what was in the report. No reason for him to be “pretty sure” about anything.
Rangers announced the findings as follows
=======================
“Based on the assessment of the available evidence, the company considers that the investigation found no evidence that Craig Whyte had any involvement with Sevco Scotland Limited (now called The Rangers Football Club Limited), the company which ultimately acquired the business and assets of The Rangers Football Club PLC from its administrators,” said Rangers’ Stock Exchange statement.
“Nor which would suggest that Craig Whyte invested in The Rangers Football Club Limited or Rangers International Football Club plc, either directly or indirectly through any third party companies or vehicles.
“Pinsent Masons’ and Roy Martin’s reports to the company are confidential and legally privileged.
“This announcement is not intended to and does not serve to waive privilege in the contents of the reports which remain confidential and legally privileged.”
==================================
I don’t think they have ever properly discussed Sevco 5088, which was the real point.
blu says: (432)
November 12, 2013 at 4:50 pm
4 3 Rate This
Some of you familiar with East Kilbride will know all about this but I’ve just discovered that there’s a thing called Alistair McCoist Complex. Can anyone tell me what the symptoms of that condition might be?
=========================================================
A misplaced sense of superiority, hints of paranoia, a penchant for knowing people’s names, a compulsion to tell people you are telling the truth and, worst of all, dog whistling while playing at being a cheeky chappy.
No1 Bob says:
===============================
Thanks for that.
I was posting my own thing at the same time as you, the points are the same though. Murray was Chairman when this investigation took place. He can hardly claim not to have known exactly what the findings were.
Twopanda says
A separate matter was reported to the police by Pinsent Masons, on behalf of the Company.[taken their time about it – wasn’t this enquiry more than 6 months ago?] That matter related purely to director appointment form which purported to appoint Craig Whyte as a director of Sevco 5088 Limited. [police are investigating a Companies House form? – Police investigate a CW link to Ibrox? – not a criminal offence – is it?]
———————————-
Pinsett Masons say “It appears that Charles Green’s signature has been copied on at least one form, if not both”
I’d say that would be criminal.
Documents from Companies House re Sevco 5088….
Stan Le Man @RFCSwitcheroo 9m
.@BBCAlLamont Al, what’s with all this ‘purported’ nonsense? @BBCDouglasF pic.twitter.com/aJxhoDiHL1
Napoleon @Napoleon_CFC 8m
@RFCSwitcheroo @BBCAlLamont @BBCDouglasF and why did this happen today ? pic.twitter.com/IMfhYi3MJ2
Stan Le Man @RFCSwitcheroo 6m
@Napoleon_CFC @BBCAlLamont @BBCDouglasF Looks like the fat lady is warming up her vocal chords right enough!
Not sure if it’s been mentioned but the league cup final venues are a joke.
Inverness have to travel all the way to Edinburgh to play Hearts when the game could’ve been played at Tannadice or Pittodrie .
The Aberdeen/St Johnstone semi has now to be played at smaller capacity Tynecastle.
If I was an Inverness fan I’d be raging
Apologies if this is off topic but I’m a raging Aberdeen fan 😈
Ridiculous, Bill. Tynecastle has bigger capacity for your guys and I believe there is no public transport early enough to allow ICT fans to travel for a lunchtime KO. Crazy, anyone would think they are trying to bring on the armageddon they predicted.
Araminta Moonbeam QC says: (11)
November 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm
28 0 Rate This
If this next incarnation isn’t called Third Rangers, I’m going to be well cheesed off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I might need to practice using an Irish accent 😉
paulsatim says: (615)
November 12, 2013 at 6:03 pm
1 0 Rate This
Documents from Companies House re Sevco 5088….
Napoleon @Napoleon_CFC 8m
@RFCSwitcheroo @BBCAlLamont @BBCDouglasF and why did this happen today ?
—————-
What does “DISS REQUEST WITHDRAWN” mean?
And today too?
Tif Finn says: (790)
November 12, 2013 at 5:50 pm
Last night on Sportsound MM said he had never seen the PM report.
He also said it started of being a pretty full blown inquiry that got narrowed and narrowed down.
In other words the Spivs gave PM a brief to provide the answers they wanted.
Dissolution Request?
wottpi says:
================================
And the Chairman never got to see it, but stayed in post for a considerable time before he was effectively sacked.
Seriously, this man has about as much credibility left as Sir David.