Good Evening,
Whilst it is understandable that the continuing events at Ibrox remain a hot topic among all Scottish Football Fans — especially given the views of some sections of the press on such events– the never ending rush down the marble staircase is certainly not the only show in town.
The other morning we were treated to the “scoop” that Alistair Johnstone is afraid that Craig Whyte– the once proclaimed Multi Billionaire from Motherwell- may well still be pulling all the strings at Ibrox! This is a fear which is shared by those who walk the corridors of Hampden Park as they, too, are terrified of the prospect of Whyte returning in some shape or form and coming back to haunt them, especially as he has been deemed unfit and proper, banned sine die, and generally ridiculed for his past actions.
However, the Hampden jackets know fine well that their realm only stretches so far and that if by means of the proper application of company law, contract or some other piece of paper Whyte controls the shareholding of the self proclaimed “parent company” to the football club then they are in a fix. In fact, I will wager that they just would not know how to deal with such a situation as after all RIFC PLC neither holds a licence to play football nor is a member of the SFA and so, on the face of it, who owns it has nothing to do with them.
At this juncture, no one in authority knows who Blue Pitch Holdings are and, strangely, no one in authority knows who Margarita Holdings are either! Yet these two “holdings” whoever they may be, may well hold all the power down Govan way…… with the SFA completely powerless to find out who they are let alone get into any dialogue with them. All the SFA can do is talk to the appointed Directors and officers of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This, is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Meanwhile, they will have no difficulty in finding out who the new shareholders of Dunfermline Athletic are. Those shareholders will come from the fanbase and will be clearly registered at Companies House, with the result that ultimately those fans/shareholders will appoint Directors who will then attend meetings and speak and opine on their behalf and in essence be the ” Voice of Dunfermline” at Hampden.
Perhaps, similar will follow from Heart of Midlothian?
However, those at Hampden — if they have any sense at all– will be most wary of events happening in the east end of Glasgow come November.
In the middle of the month, Celtic PLC will hold its AGM and amidst the items on the agenda is the fan driven notion that the Club— through its Directors—- should go further in holding the SFA to account and enquire into the granting of club licences, and in particular how it granted Rangers a club licence that allowed entry to the Champions League in 2011 when the small tax case was outstanding.
The Celtic board have deemed this motion as “Unnecessary” and in support of that contention have released documentation showing that they raised this very issue with the SFA on behalf of the shareholders and fans. Further– and here is the rub— The Directors reveal that they were not satisfied with the SFA response and have disclosed that they took the matter further and wrote to UEFA.
Ultimately, UEFA also provided a reply, which backed the SFA approach and which Celtic had little option but to accept in the absence of admissible contradicting evidence..
It is on this basis, that Peter Lawell and Co say the AGM motion is not necessary. Note that saying that the motion is not necessary, is not at all the same thing as saying that what the motion seeks to achieve is not necessary or does not have the support of the board!
There will be those at Hampden who severely hope that the Celtic Board are successful in voting this measure down as obviously they deem their original reply sufficient and would like to end the discussion there.
However, my own view, is that whether the motion is successful or not, there are those within the SFA who will recognise there is trouble staring them in the face here. Real Trouble!
Let’s recap for a moment and draw some threads together.
Celtic’s past Chairman, Dr John Reid, said only a couple of years ago that the SFA was clearly not fit for purpose. He did so in the context of events surrounding Neil Lennon and other matters, but was unshakably robust in his condemnation of an institutionalised uselessness which he saw pervaded the Hampden ranks.
Prior to that, Henry McLeish produced a report which stated that he too had concerns about the Governance of Scottish Football and called for openness and transparency.
In the intervening period, we have seen Mr David Longmuir, former Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League, find himelf without a position following reconstruction– and this partly as a result of club chairmen being apparently kept in the dark about his payment, bonuses and expenes. I understand that there was considerable anger from some at the way in which they had been treated by Mr Longmuir.
Then there is Mr Campbell Ogilvie, El Presidente, who himself benefited from a Rangers EBT and who held sway at Ibrox during a period of time when Rangers– by their own admission— made unlawful and illegal payments to three high profile players in breach of tax laws and SFA/SPL rules. It is these breaches and the consequent Wee Tax Bill which has caused all the angst among Celtic fans and has lead to the highly regulated legal step of tabling a motion at the club’s AGM.
Basically, the position seems to be, that as at the due date when the appropriate documents and declarations were made for a Euro Licence by Rangers for 2011, the wee tax bill was outstanding and due. If it was overdue, then the SFA could not and should not have granted them a licence……. and potentially Celtic should then have been put forward as Scotland’s representatives in the Champion’s League.
However, that did not happen, and Ranger’s were granted a licence– something that the Celtic Directors clearly felt was not correct.
They may have disagreed with the awarding of the licence because there were those at Rangers at the time who declared that a payment to account had been made to the tax office– allegedly £500,000– and that they had entered into an agreement to make payment of the balance by instalments. Had that been so, then all would have been hunky dory and no more would have been said.
Alas, however, no such payment appears to have been made at all, and no such agreement was entered into and so, on that basis, the tax bill was overdue and outstanding as at 30th June in terms of Article 66 and as such no Euro Licence should have been granted.
However, the argument does not end there.
Auldheid, has posted frequently on these pages about the ins and outs of the licensing provisions and the mechanism and so I will leave that detail to him as he is far more expert in these areas than me.
Now, one of the SFA functions is to have an auditor– someone who can check books, contracts, paper work and so on, and it is part of the SFA licensing function to be satisfied that all the paperwork is of course correct and in proper fashion before they issue any licence.
In this case, it is alleged that the SFA did not perform their function properly.
In relation to the wee tax case, it is said that either they did not make sufficient enquiry of Rangers re the payment to account or the agreement which they were told was in place. At the time it was mooted in the press that no such agreement was in place as at the relevant date ( June 30th ) and a simple check with the revenue would have shown the truth of the matter.
Yet, for whatever reason, no such check appears to have been made, and if you recall a Radio Scotland interview with Alistair Johnstone, Rangers submitted the forms, the SFA replied with one or two enquiries about the BIG tax case which were answered, and thereafter the Licence appears to have simply dropped through the letter box without further ado.
You will also recall that the existence of the wee tax case became known BEFORE Craig Whyte bought David Murray’s shareholding in May 2011. In fact it was the subject of News Paper headlines weeks before the deal was completed, and so the fact that there was a wee tax bill was well and truly in the public domain.
When it came to filling in the appropriate forms,either, the SFA were mislead by those then at Rangers with regard to that tax bill, OR, they simply failed to do the requisite checks and make reasonable enquiries before they issued the licence.
However, the uncomfortable fact also remains, that one of the chaps who must have been in the know re the admittedly unlawful and offending side letters, contracts and payments to the three players concerned was Campbell Ogilivie who was on the Rangers Board at the relevant time when the contracts and irregular payments were made under the Discount Options Scheme from 1999 to 2002/3. Indeed he may even have initiated the first payment to Craig Moore in 1999. I reiterate that no one has ever contested that this was an unlawful scheme, and the irregular payments and paperwork are not denied in relation to that scheme.
There are Celtic shareholders who believe, rightly or wrongly, that when it came to the granting of the Euro Licence, the SFA did not play them fair on this occasion and that the wheels within Hampden were oiled in such a way that Rangers were favoured and Celtic were disadvantaged. It is a point that looks to have already been considered by the Celtic Directors in 2011, with the result that they concluded that they should formally write to the SFA and seek clarification.
However, we now have the prospect of those same directors having to go back to Hampden and say ” Sorry, but I am forced to bring this up by my shareholders. I have a legal duty to them to enquire further”. Even if the motion is refused, the point has been made– there are shareholders who are demanding answers– just as shareholders of other clubs demand answers about the ever so secret 5 way agreement and other matters which have hitherto been not for public consumption.
The SFA have nothing to fear of course as they can simply repeat their previous answers,demonstrate that all was above board, and rest easy in their beds.
Except that answer did not satisfy the Celtic Directors on a previous occasion as they decided to take the matter to UEFA, and it would appear that some Celtic shareholders remain dissatisfied with the known stance of the SFA and so they want the Directors of the club to delve further. Without wishing to point out the obvious, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted rigorously or that those at Hampden were in any way economical with the truth or omitted certain details from the previous explanation, or covered up a failure in procedures—- well such omissions have a habit of becoming public these days whether that be through the internet or otherwise.
The point here is that the actions of Hampden officials are coming under organised, legal and planned corporate scrutiny over which they have no control. The Blazer and club mentality that was once so widespread within the governing bodies is under increasing attack and is being rendered a thing of the past.
In short, the move by Celtic shareholders, is making it plain that they will demand proper corporate governance from their club in ensuring that any alleged failure in corporate governance by the SFA or SPFL is properly investigated and reported on.
Of course, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted properly for whatever reason, then it could be argued that Celtic were disadvantaged in monetary terms along with other clubs who may have been awarded Europa League licences, then the consequences could be cataclysmic. Hence a tendency to circle the wagons rather than admit to failures in the process that need addressing.
It is this reluctance to come out and accept that the licensing process appears to have failed, say at what point the process failed and what needs to be done to address those failures that in many ways has driven the resolution. It is clear to all that something is amiss but the SFA will not admit it, probably from fear of the consequences of doing so? Perhaps some form of indemnity, a lessons learned enquiry with no prejudice might help?
It would come as no surprise to me at all if there were those at Hampden who live in dreaded fear of admitting that their processes were flawed and that a grave mistake was made. Under these circumstances, there may well be those at Hampden who simply wish that Celtic and their fans would just go away!
Smugas says:
========================
I was merely making the distinction.
You said it was Alex Salmond congratulating him, with the added bit about being glad to have him “at the helm”
If Alex Salmond wants to express those feelings, that is a matter for him. However the First Minister doing it is wrong. Whatever new chairman he was referring to and whatever the club.
It is the “glad to have someone of your calibre at the helm” bit I find particularly distasteful. At the very least it implies that he has wants the club to be successful and has a personal interest in it happening. Again fair enough if it is Alex Salmond personally, but not the First Minister of Scotland expressing the sentiment.
redetin says: (251)
November 15, 2013 at 3:47 pm
Whenever folk try and make political capital out of this, I always remember Ian “The bayonet” Davidson MP marching shoulder to shoulder with Mr Jardine on his way to Hampden on THAT “Who are these people?” day of infamy.
http://www.snspix.com/6521447/print/6521447.html
None of the political parties come out of this with any credit.
Tif Finn says: (844)
November 15, 2013 at 1:03 pm
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1
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Celtic Football Club @celticfc 32m
Shareholder referred to the media reporting of a new club as an old club, Celtic CEO, said: ‘Rory Bremner can pretend to be Tony Blair…’.
__________________________________________
😆 👿
excellent!
Exiled Celt
I don’t see this as grand plan flawlessly executed, more of a plan re-worked as each bump in the road was hit. These boys know company law inside and out, have led Rangers fans and the authorities in a merry dance and have made themselves, their investors and advisors a pretty tidy sum in the process. The list of duped-ees is incredible.
What will be left? A financially crippled football club with delusions of grandeur.
I do hope Craigy writes a book. If you’re looking in CW, I’d buy it and at full price too.
PS
To the omni-thumbsdowner in the past hour. I take it as a badge of honour, thank you.
scapaflow says: (1111)
November 15, 2013 at 4:07 pm
redetin says: (251)
November 15, 2013 at 3:47 pm
Whenever folk try and make political capital out of this, I always remember Ian “The bayonet”….
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Agreed. Have some fun with the MP names in the Westminster Sevco Supporters Club; one of them might be your member!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mps-form-rangers-supporters-club-at-westminster-1.875901
Sugar Daddy – now imagine how much they could really have raked in if only they could have stayed in SPL as originally promised. No wonder they hated the internet bampots!
The thumbsdowner is a lovely piece of work I posted my prior post and noticed a spelling mistake so quickly edited it out – it already had the TD from him. Note to the TD’er – you are supposed to read them first! Or maybe JI does not want to pay them to do that………….
Sugar Daddy says: (144)
November 15, 2013 at 4:14 pm
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Exiled Celt
I don’t see this as grand plan flawlessly executed, more of a plan re-worked as each bump in the road was hit. These boys know company law inside and out, have led Rangers fans and the authorities in a merry dance and have made themselves, their investors and advisors a pretty tidy sum in the process. The list of duped-ees is incredible.
What will be left? A financially crippled football club with delusions of grandeur.
I do hope Craigy writes a book. If you’re looking in CW, I’d buy it and at full price too.
=================================================================
Worthington bought the rights some time ago 😀
=======================================
Company Worthington Group PLC
TIDM WRN
Headline Diversification
Released 08:11 17-Apr-2013
Number 5415C08
RNS Number : 5415C
Worthington Group PLC
17 April 2013
RNS Number: 5415C
Worthington Group Plc
17th April 2013
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Worthington Group Plc
Worthington Group Plc (the “Company”) – Diversification
The Company has been looking at ways to diversify the Company’s activities in order to develop additional growth opportunities. It currently has a property in Keighley and a 44% stake in Trimmings by Design Ltd. Whilst these interests have the potential to deliver reasonable medium term growth the Company has been looking at other potential investments which may yield above average growth.
The Company is now pleased to announce that, as the first step in the possible acquisition of Law Financial Ltd (“LFL”), it has agreed to acquire a 26% stake in LFL for £250,000 payable in unsecured convertible loan notes. The Company has also been granted an option to acquire the remaining share capital of LFL. The full acquisition would be subject to shareholder approval and compliance with any applicable Listing Rules.
LFL, a recently incorporated company, has a number of subsidiaries, namely Sevco 5088 Ltd, Law Capital Ltd, Litigation Capital Ltd and Media Litigation Ltd (LFL and its subsidiaries hereafter being referred to as the Law Financial Group). The eventual aggregate purchase price for 100% of LFL will be £1m in unsecured convertible loan notes plus 33.33% of the proceeds of any assets, claims or rights currently owned by LFG or transferred to LFG or Worthington pursuant to the agreement payable in non-convertible unsecured loan notes which may be redeemed for cash at the option of the holder at any time after six months of issue. The Company’s option to acquire the balance of the share capital of LFL is exercisable until October 31st 2013.
The assets of Sevco 5088 Ltd include a claim, which has been independently reviewed by Leading Counsel who is also a Deputy High Court Judge, to all of the business and assets of RFC 2012 Plc which were purchased by Sevco 5088 Limited or Sevco Scotland Ltd from the administrators of RFC 2012 plc in June of 2012. Sevco Scotland Ltd was subsequently renamed The Rangers Football Club Limited and its share capital was acquired by Rangers International Football Club Plc, the shares of which are now traded on AIM. It is the position of Sevco 5088 Ltd that it is the rightful owner of the business and those assets. After examination of the evidence, Leading Counsel’s advice is that there is a prima facie case to answer.
It has also been agreed that, pursuant to the agreement certain other related rights, assets and causes of action will be transferred to the Law Financial Group or directly to Worthington. Those assets include the Book, Film and Television rights to the two takeovers of The Rangers Football Club in 2011 and 2012 as it relates to Craig Whyte. It is intended that these rights will be commercialised in due course.
It is LFL’s intention to enter the litigation funding and litigation funding broking markets. Litigation funding is a growing sector of the commercial litigation market and the Company is of the view that, in the years to come, the demand for litigation funding within the corporate sector can only increase.
The unsecured convertible loan notes issued as part of the consideration will only be convertible to the extent that the holder or those acting in concert do not exceed 29.9% of the voting capital of the Company.
The unsecured convertible loan notes will give the holder the right, at any time within 7 years, to convert each £1 of those loan notes into 20 new Ordinary fully paid shares in the Company, subject to shareholder approval. The Company will endeavour to obtain this approval within twelve months of the date of issue. If approval is not obtained within twelve months, then the holders may elect to be repaid in cash, or convert each £1 of the loan notes into 10 new Ordinary fully paid shares in the Company.
Douglas Ware, Chief Executive Officer of Worthington Group Plc, said:
“We believe that the transaction contemplated by this announcement gives the Company a major opportunity to increase shareholder value and thus to strengthen the Company’s balance sheet, enabling the Company to look at additional opportunities as they arise.”
Enquiries:
Douglas Ware, CEO Worthington Group Plc: dougware@worthingtongroupplc.co.uk
Anne Alesbury, PD Cosec Limited,
Company Secretary, Worthington Group plc on 0208 940 0963
17th April 2013
Salmond’s letter is symptomatic of the support this club have received since their troubles began. The legal profession, the press and media, political figures and even the Armed forces have all got behind the cause.
Some of these characters know exactly what has gone on and what is going on. But the reality is they Do Not Care. They couldn’t give a toss about creditors being unceremoniously stuffed. They certainly do not care about being abhorred by the rest of the scandals surrounding them. All they are interested in is WATP. They will stop at nothing to cover their tracks. Handshakes all round at the Edinburgh HQ.
Tif Finn says: (845)
November 15, 2013 at 4:03 pm
Smugas says:
========================
I was merely making the distinction.
You said it was Alex Salmond congratulating him, with the added bit about being glad to have him “at the helm”
If Alex Salmond wants to express those feelings, that is a matter for him. However the First Minister doing it is wrong. Whatever new chairman he was referring to and whatever the club.
It is the “glad to have someone of your calibre at the helm” bit I find particularly distasteful. At the very least it implies that he has wants the club to be successful and has a personal interest in it happening. Again fair enough if it is Alex Salmond personally, but not the First Minister of Scotland expressing the sentiment.
==========================
Tif,
I’m genuinely not arguing the point. I was as surprised as you at first glance given the headed paper – if I’m honest the subsequent sycophantic, almost amateurish smoke-blowing then came as a bit of a disappointment to be truthful.
I do however believe that the first minister who is about to lead the country into the most important referendum in 300 years absolutely has a personal interest in this (and indeed every other) institution being successful. Its called votes, and I suspect he’ll be scrabbling for (and needing) every single one he can get.
I’m aware this is not a forum for such matters so I’ll leave it there. I believe such a letter would have been written to every other club that carried the same voting potential and we all know the one I’m referring to!
I do stand by my initial point though. The biggest casualty from those two email, screen print things will be Salmond. I do not believe the person that passed them to Charlotte gave two hoots which returns us to a more central theme.
Dignity my harris.
From Buy Rangers video
WATP with the club’s best interest at heart
Do you want our club to live up to the shared values and traditions.
————————————————————————————————-
Your club died as your values and traditions were shared with no other club other that your own.
Your WATP attitude is what the spivs are loving as that is how they fill their pockets.
Ally sold you out, Walter sold you out and S Jardine is helping to sell you out again. Rangers men basically are fleecing you all to the benefit of men who are not rangers men (and no doubt being rewarded for it).
I am interested in what it will take for you to say no more as everyone outside Govan are actually saying surely enough is enough.
Can you as fans of the Govan club think or be absolutely sure Mr Whyte is still not involved in your club?
Or do the papers decide for you? Easy money.
auchinstarry says: (105) November 15, 2013 at 4:26 pm
All they are interested in is WATP.
I think you mean “All they are interested in is WATP’s votes/wallets/business”
Tif Finn says: (845)
November 15, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Where do I sign up?
Aspiration, Imagination, Determination subliminal message?
Smugas says:
===========================
Likewise, this is my last on the subject.
For me it is wrong for the First Minister to have sent the message “glad to have someone of your calibre at the helm”. That goes way beyond an official and bog standard “congratulations on your new job” letter.
The implication is clear.
Tif
The TD wisnae me!
LOL!
@MalkieMouth account suspended, that was quick!
helpmaboab says: (233)
November 15, 2013 at 2:12 pm
…Self obsessed,triumphalist attitudes,interested in nothing but themselves.
———————————————————————
You say ‘cheats’ helpmaboab, I think ‘sociopaths’ is nearer the correct diagnosis.
Think about the money the Spivs have missed out on by merely being “allowed” into SFL3 as it was then, instead of SFL1 or even SPL!
If still in SPL or even SFL1 to a lesser degree more income would have been available!
– Players would have stayed and been sold thereafter to pocket the transfers
– STs would have remained higher at old prices meaning more money for income
– TV income higher – with added higher advert/sponsor money
– Better cup runs since come in at later stages – depending on Ally here of course!
– SFA helping them get into UEFA before 3 years are up
– Lots more income from away fans
– More attention from media – make them more relevant
Its easier to sell the WATP when you are at the top of the pile. The money coming in would have been so much better for them to devour. Outgoings would have been higher for players – but I am sure there are ways to get around that (ahem!). Money would have rolled in…………
No wonder Charles was ticked off at SPL for denying him the chance to build a moat for his chateau!
Its kick boxing time between Keef and Jack……..
http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5577-todays-daily-record
Friday, 15 November 2013 15:00
Today’s Daily Record
Re Daily Record (Friday, 15 November 2013) – “Powerless – Gardiner says no to Gers top job as Ibrox board refuse to let him run club his way”
For the avoidance of doubt the club would like to clarify the following:-
Mr Gardiner never made demands about having the power to hire and fire directors. Any journalist with a modicum of business understanding would know that would be a preposterous demand.
Mr Gardiner made no comments whatsoever about the “Rangers PR machine.” Indeed he had many constructive and friendly face to face meetings and phone calls with our PR adviser.
We are satisfied that Mr Gardiner’s views are not reflected in The Record which raises the question – did he actually speak to the paper?
The Rangers board continue to be dismayed at the standards of journalism from The Daily Record and can only assume that the paper is riddled from top to bottom with an anti-Rangers bias.
Don’t think this story has been mentioned today;
Interesting development which might cost The SPFL – or their insurers – a few quid.
————————————————————————
“SPFL fails to stop £1.7m damages bid in ‘foreign broadcast’ row
Scottish football bosses have failed in a legal bid to derail a £1.7m damages claim from a pub chain it tried to stop showing games via a Polish broadcaster…”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24958008
Exiled Celt says:
=============================
3 absolutely crucial moments in the story
1 – HMRC rejecting the CVA leading to liquidation of Rangers
2 – The other clubs in the SPL (as was) rejecting the new club being placed in their league (other than Kilmarnock who abstained)
3 – The SFL clubs (as was) not allowing the new club straight into SFL1
Jean7brodie@4:51pm
Sociopaths.Looked it up on Wiki, Jean. Correct.Fits them like a glove.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-fans-fail-agm-bid-2795043
Er…… I thought the vote was meant to be about the SFA granting Rangers their European licence at the expense of Celtic?
Silly me, turns out it was actually a vote about reporting the SFA to UEFA over their lenient treatment of Rangers in general. Nowhere does the word ‘Europe’ or ‘European’ get a mention, although if you look carefully, there’s an attempt to portray it as Celtic shareholders complaining about the granting of a club licence to play in Scottish football…..
And now the madness begins………..
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/248866-rangers-to-complain-to-scottish-fa-over-celtic-chief-executives-jibe/
Rangers to complain to Scottish FA over Celtic chief executive’s jibe
STV 15 November 2013 17:35 GMT
Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell. © SNS Group
Rangers say they will complain to the Scottish FA following comments made by Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell.
Asked for his thoughts by shareholders at Celtic’s Annual General Meeting on why the media refer to Rangers as a club in existence since 1872, rather than a new club because of the liquidation of the company operating the club in 2012, Lawwell replied: “Rory Bremner can pretend to be Tony Blair.”
In response, a statement from the Ibrox side on Friday evening read: “The club are disappointed with the comments attributed to Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell earlier today.
“Rangers Football Club, now in its 141st year, has a proud history which has been recognised by the football authorities and was noted in a recent SPL Commission determination.
“The club will now take this matter up with the relevant football authorities.”
I’m pretty certain they won’t as it could lead to the SFA being asked to comment
All this is is grandstanding to their support
Exiled Celt says: (779)
November 15, 2013 at 5:16 pm
Its kick boxing time between Keef and Jack……..
___
Quite so EC
Seems jack says they are without a modicum of business sense who make up stories
Golly
Well jack would know what he`s talking about – wouldn`t he just
Let the PR Slug-Fest begin 😉
These two – quickly issued – TRFC statements about the Dundee CEO and now Lawwell just smacks of deflection / distraction – and possibly desperation ?
TRFC should simply have maintained a ‘dignified silence’ about both stories, [I know…]
Something is about to kick-off in Govan… 🙄
Neil Patey on the Stv news
The go to guy for any financial questions, and undoubtedly the Spivs favourite financial expert
andygraham.66 says: (64)
November 15, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Guessing it will be the case that any discussions with the authorities will be ‘informal’
Can’t see them wanting to get dragged into something ‘official’ as I doubt Celtic would take Lawwell getting fines etc lying down.
Could open a huge can of worms if they go down that path.
Exiled Celt says: (780)
November 15, 2013 at 5:45 pm
1 0 Rate This
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Mr Irvine is trying on the Charles Green theme, they all hate us, it’s an anti-Rangers conspiracy. No doubt many will believe this rubbish. It’s a sure sign that somethings up …
Jack’s fair knocking his pan in today!
I can just imagine the court case.
I put it to you sir that indeed I think you’ll find that Rory bremner does not in fact do tony blair but that it is instead an impersonation. What’s that? Well what exactly is our case exactly?
Joking apart. Perfect example why lawell needs to continue to keep schtoom and let them devour themselves.
I saw it mentioned that some of the most reviled people in Britain are forming a supporters club for what has become one of the most despised institutions in the country. Birds of a feather.
The Monster Raving Looney Party must be dismayed. They’re beginning to look sensible by comparison.
andygraham.66 says: (65)
November 15, 2013 at 6:03 pm
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Neil Patey on the Stv news
The go to guy for any financial questions, and undoubtedly the Spivs favourite financial expert
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Even Duff & Phelps have a better record than Patey.
When they transferred Rangers assets to Sevco Scotland instead of Sevco 5088, at least they were half right.
From RM. The reason why Jack has locked down the board and stopped them discussing the board/agm.
@@@@@@@
If Rangers did similar to the Foundation of Hearts (who have 8000 members) paying money monthly to buy shares would you sign up?
The Rangers equivalent launches in the next 2 weeks. There is a thread in the boardroom forum about it.
@!@@@@
2 weeks? When is the AGM??
Go Jade 😆 to Keevins ‘ tell me something rangers* are not offended by? ‘
Danish Pastry says: (1677)
November 15, 2013 at 6:15 pm
The Monster Raving Looney Party must be dismayed. They’re beginning to look sensible by comparison.
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DP, this same party once petitioned to have ‘The Sun’ re-classified as a comic so they were OK in my books 😆
I’ve had a rotten day, but that latest statement made me laugh out loud!
“Unbroken 141 year history” ….if that’s true, why did Chuckles have to buy it FROM SOMEONE ELSE!
I mean, I bought my gran a painting for her 80th birthday, but if I used the Sevco method, that would mean I could tell her I had drawn it.
Danish Pastry says: (1677)
November 15, 2013 at 6:15 pm
The Monster Raving Looney Party must be dismayed. They’re beginning to look sensible by comparison.
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I’ve thought MRLP have looked sensible compared to the other main parties for years now.
Exiled Celt says: (780)
November 15, 2013 at 5:45 pm
Part of me would love to see PL censured by that parcel o’ rogues over a joke. They don’t do humour.
Coming back from dinner with my sister and her family and my Brother in Law has Radio Clyde on. I had to endure this pathetic radio station and their football phone in.
I really wish all Celtic fans would stop listening to and calling into it. They’re just embarrassing themselves.
Do they realise by listening to and calling this show, they’re paying the wages of the people who’re employed to host it?
You’re funding a man banned from Celtic Park, a man who’s employed by Rangers TV and various other individuals who at the very least constantly try to bring negative publicity to the club you all declare to love.
They’re ill-informed, untruthful and broadcast plain and simple propaganda.
I doubt any fans of the clubs in Edinburgh or further North bother their arses with this tripe.
Let it become a Sevco love in, who cares.
While I’m at it, purchasing the red tops who in the last 30 years haven’t been shy in sticking the boot into Celtic. ” Biscuit tin mentality ” ” Thugs and Thieves ” ” Celtic R.I.P ” and many, many more.
If you wish to fund alleged journalists to abuse you and your club , feel free to carry on with your sadistic behaviour.
Smartbhoy says: (95)
November 15, 2013 at 7:10 pm
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Totally agree Smartbhoy.
Posmil – that is why Jack is posturing and for the avoidance of doubt he never wants an official verdict on new club/old club, because he knows full well as does everyone else with a modicum of sense that by living in your granny’s home after she has departed this pleasant earth, does not mean you need to set a place for her at Xmas – which is why I would have thought it would have much better PR by Jack to have ignored it and let Celtic fans concentrate on the living wage issue – he really is not good at PR is he!
I reckon the threat of ‘going to the authorities’ by Sevco over Lawwell’s comments will be an empty one.
After all, they did nothing after Celtic proclaimed the April 2012 ‘Old Firm’ game to be the last ever, which of course it was.
And unlike Montrose and Falkirk, I don’t think Celtic are the type of club to be bullied.
It really must stick in their craw to know that the club they see as their oldest and biggest rivals don’t share that view and have said so publicly.
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/439/9027501/-?
Well done peter Lawwell – did he make a joke about the elephant in the room?
Check out the picture they’re using now. Only the ‘rangers’ part from the scrap metal gates at ibrokes!
Bring it on Pete.
Watching the seethe on twitter over the comments at todays Cetic AGM, can’t help but think that sevco has just bitten, hook line and sinker. Asking a question they really shouldn’t directly ask!
Anyone have any idea what the ‘ …received information not previously known…’ is all about?
Re the First Minister’s letter of congratulations to Walter on his becoming Chairman…
I don’t think we should dismiss this so easily as we seem to have. While I agree that it is probably simple common political practice for the FM to congratulate anyone becoming chairman of an important Scottish company/institution, we appear to be missing the fact that by the time Walter became chairman, RFC* was NOT an important Scottish company/institution – it was a loss-making 1-year old company.
If I accept that the FM would likely congratulate a new chairman of Scottish Gas, I am equally sure he wouldn’t congratulate a new chairman of, say, Stephens Bakery here in Dunfermline (although they are very good!)
By that logic then, I can see how he might, in the past, have written to congratulate a new chairman of Rangers Football Club, but I am sure he wouldn’t have written to a new chairman of Dunfermline, Albion Rovers etc.
What does this then tell us and why is it important as I said. Well, to my mind, the FM can only have congratulated Walter because he actually believes the new RFC* to be the same as the Rangers Football Club now being liquidated.
If that is the case, why is he writing in congratulations when he should in fact be writing asking for the return of the money that Rangers Football Club stole from HMRC (and from other creditors). We should be writing to the FM in this regard now!! I’m serious. We can put him on the spot!
(The above assumes that the leaked letter is genuine – no reason to believe otherwise, afaik).
Shock, horror, Gordon Strachan has insulted the USA in a radio interview.
“Looking at their nation as a hole.”
How dare he, a disgrace to the nation, sack him right now.
The next thing he’ll be calling their manager, Jurgen Klinsmann a … German.
Willing to take a wager p lawell is made to say sorry for causing any offence watch this space
Exiled Celt says: (781)
November 15, 2013 at 7:17 pm
I wouldn’t hire that man to rep a dead parrot. Oh wait…
sickofitall says: (196)
November 15, 2013 at 7:30 pm
Or maybe they’ll make him wear a scarlet “T” (for Truth).
andygraham.66 says:
November 15, 2013 at 6:03 pm
Neil Patey on the Stv news
The go to guy for any financial questions
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… but not for any sensible answers. 🙂
sickofitall says:
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He may just do that.
He has already given the current board an opportunity to have a go at him and ingratiate themselves to the support.
If he were to apologise that would raise their status even more in the eyes of a lot of The Rangers’ support.
The people on follow follow don’t know if they are counter-sunk or bored just now. Lawwell is a {insert sectarian insult here} but the people who are having a go at him are as bad.
This really is causing some of them migraines,
“Campbell, that mans laughing at us. You’ll huvtae sort him oot, Campbell. Ah mean, whits the point of us huvin you there otherwise.”
BigGav
Patey the go to guy ,aye if yer crackers
When this “Same Club” come out with a payment plan to reimburse the public purse and all other creditors I’ll maybe go along with the kidology.
sickofitall says: (196)
November 15, 2013 at 7:30 pm
Willing to take a wager p lawell is made to say sorry for causing any offence watch this space
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What odds are you offering ? Because I bet he will not apologise.
If they are the same club ,
have they paid the 250,000 slap on the wrist given by LNS .
Naw didn’t think so .
Evens
If they are the same club
Why did they not play in the EL when they finished 2nd in the spl ?
why were they not seeded in the Scottish cup?
why were the players able to just walk away?
why did they have to re apply to join the Scottish game?
why did the debenture holders lose their seats (for life) at Ibrokes ?
why did all the commercial deals with the club become void?
why did CG have to buy the history?
why did they need a secretive 5 way agreement?
if they win or are runners up to the spfl winners this year will they get a EL spot ,if not ,why not ?
why did they have to change their name (not the MSM pet name )?
why did Dunfermline and Hearts fight so hard to try to exit administration ?
sickofitall says: (197)
November 15, 2013 at 7:58 pm
Evens
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Ian Black is giving better odds than that.
Okay 2to 1
fergusslayedtheblues says: (207)
November 15, 2013 at 8:00 pm
8
1
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If they are the same club
Why did they not play in the EL when they finished 2nd in the spl ?
why were they not seeded in the Scottish cup?
why were the players able to just walk away?
why did they have to re apply to join the Scottish game?
why did the debenture holders lose their seats (for life) at Ibrokes ?
why did all the commercial deals with the club become void?
why did CG have to buy the history?
why did they need a secretive 5 way agreement?
if they win or are runners up to the spfl winners this year will they get a EL spot ,if not ,why not ?
why did they have to change their name (not the MSM pet name )?
why did Dunfermline and Hearts fight so hard to try to exit administration ?
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You tryin to tell us somethin then Fergus? 😀 Brilliant!
sickofitall says: (198)
November 15, 2013 at 8:10 pm
Okay 2to 1
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Ok,£2 bet he will not apologise. If I win you donate £6 to TSFM.
If lose I will donate £2 to TSFM,Or you can have Ibrox.
Smugas says: (526)
November 15, 2013 at 1:55 pm
Barcabhoy says: (275)
November 15, 2013 at 1:40 pm
So either Sevco Scotland is the successor , which would mean the shareholders of 5088 should have either been compensated ( which they weren’t ), or a failure notice should have been issued (which it wasn’t).
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Key point Barca – presumably either the shareholders of 5088 should have been compensated, or presumably have given their agreement to the successor notice, or a failure notice to be issued. What is required to approve that successor notice (with no compensation) (is that an APA btw?) a sole director’s say so? a majority shareholder’s say so? or a unanimous shareholder say so? I’m keeping Eco’s point in mind that Green technically resigned as a director the day after the CVA failed (despite him trying to act as one 6 months later).
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I think we have to be very careful with terminology used and what we know is actually a matter of public record rather than conjecture on what we think spivs might have been up to because that is something we will never ever be able to figure out until well after the dust has settled from a collapsing pack of cards.
On that basis we know there is a £1 subscriber share issued for Sevco 5088 Ltd in the name of the secretarial company from the time of the formation. Green has often claimed he is the sole shareholder in Sevco 5088 but there is no record of the £1 subscriber share being assigned to him from the secretarial company. So, in effect, as far as the public record at Companies House is concerned then Green is not and has never been a shareholder in Sevco 5088.
It is also wrong to state that the likes of Blue Pitch, or any of the other original consortium of investors, have ever ever been shareholders in Sevco 5088. What appears to be the case is that they provided funds on a placement basis to Sevco 5088 to purchase the Rangers assets – and the funds were subsequently transferred to Sevco Scotland Ltd by verbal agreement between the investors and un0named Sevco 5088 directors – but that doesn’t necessarily mean these investors were ever issued shares in Sevco 5088.
There has also been lots of talk stretching back to the summer of 2012 that the Sevco 5088 investment funds originally weren’t originally backed by shares but by debentures possibly secured aganst property assets of Rangers.
But the only way to check this is if we have full Annual Returns for Sevco 5088 and TRFCL (which incorporates Sevco Scotland Ltd). But it appears that there is a concerted effort to prevent this info being provided to Companies House because whoever puts their name to the details of a complete Annual Return can be held to account at a later date if it is incorrect.
Rangers have failed to supply the shareholding info for TRFCL which includes Sevco Scotland Ltd and from what it appears we don’t have the full shareholding info from Sevco 5088 Ltd. It is critical to understanding what went down here to see this info but I’m beginning to think only a police investigation is capable of unearthing it.
Tic 6709 says: (545)
November 15, 2013 at 7:42 pm
I think PL wants this particular boil lanced
If they try to punish him in any way, I reckon the heavyweight lawyers and insolvency experts will be wheeled out
Neither the SFA or Sevco would be that stupid
Brenda says: (706)
November 15, 2013 at 6:24 pm
25
1
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Go Jade 😆 to Keevins ‘ tell me something rangers* are not offended by? ‘
_____________________________________
Come now Jade, you left him an open goal there!
So what was Shug’s reply?
Because he could have chosen from:
Tax evasion
Rule breaking
Stealing from charity
Spending money you haven’t got
Non payment of debts
Dog whistle Incitement to breach of the peace
Sectarian chanting
undeclared payments to players
etc.. etc..
unless it was THE rangers she meant:
Pheonixism
Impersonation
Sectarian chanting
Appropriation of assets at under value
etc.. etc..
Quite alot that they don’t get offended by, as it happens!
(as long as its them doing it, obviously)
Craigie is reviving Sevco 5088 (why).
Worthington last April bought Law company and basically put out feelers for anyone willing to fund a punt at grabbing back Rangers assets. They subsequently suspended trading (at 3p) with a parting story of regrouping for finance to back their go at a no win no fee defence of CWs claim that he was stiffed by Green. (Including Book TV and Film rights – Beezer)
Has this now borne fruit in terms of backing? Hence why the sprucing up of Sevco junior.?
Also what on earth happened to Collyer Bristow v Rangers (now BDO) v CW v Gary Withey. should have been in court in October. Previously listed in the Lawyer as one of the cases to watch of 2014?
campsiejoe says: (594)
November 15, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Tic 6709 says: (545)
November 15, 2013 at 7:42 pm
I think PL wants this particular boil lanced
If they try to punish him in any way, I reckon the heavyweight lawyers and insolvency experts will be wheeled out
Neither the SFA or Sevco would be that stupid
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I agree Joe, I think Celtic have been waiting for a chance to put this to bed.
Remember PL’s comment about being very surprised at the verdict of ” no advantage “.
By the way,nice to see you back.
Tic 6709 says: (548)
November 15, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Why thank you
More of a silent observer these days
I really do hope Sevco go through with this, only to be shot down in flames
Add 5088 into the mix, and it could be fun
Eco,
I know that I should know this but how did we get from one subscriber share to 10m held by Law via korissa and blue pitch?
I never knew this had taken place,did anyone?. Clearly the Bears(some of them also upset with MSM):
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From Ranger Rumours Home of the Goerge lad:
11 Nov 2013 21:38:45
Fellow fans and supporters!
There is me thinking that we live in a free country with freedom of speech and a free press!
Now I was at the demo at Ibrox on Saturday and along win many hundreds of fellow supporters we marched to the front of the stadium and had a gathering and made our feelings known to the hierarchy in the blue room, unfortunately they would not show their faces and decided to hide behind the blue room curtains? Not bad considering the new “non executive” temporary chairman said the rangers fans where the best in the world? Is this the same guy who is privileged to be the (temporary) chairman and hopes everybody can be pals and get on yet the Ibrox politburo have tried to silence the growing minority.
Let’s be clear this was the biggest demo to date and was peaceful and respectful to the forces and families, yet not one word in Sundays press? This was very strange considering their was at least 8-10 photographers taking plenty of pictures why would they then not report the demo? In a couple of words “toxic jack irvine”
How much power does this guy think he has if he wants to silence the supporters?
It should be noted that there was quite a lot of fans applauding when we walked to the front door, but strangely enough their still seems to be a lot of supporters who haven’t grasped the seriousness of our situation, it will be too late then and hopefully they won’t start moaning about nobody doing anything about our current situation.
I wonder where the photographers went to?
Will the press editors come clean?
Free Scotland free press I don’t think so!
We will keep up the pressure till the AGM
Also it should also be further noted the support of big Andy smillie at the front door and also some of the hospitality guests joined in on the singing well done
R R
Therealranger
(12)
(19)
Realrawnger what do you want a pat on the back? Or to see youself in the paper? There wasnt “many hundreds” as you claim. Its not all down to you pal, please get over yourself as your sounding if its all about you and looking for personal media exposure, and your jack irvine claim, total drivel, honestly
biarya
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It is very simple, some of us, me included, who are share holders, are not convinced Malcolm Murray, Paul Murray et al are the answer.
Paul Murray was a previous director and was a party to the reason we are where we are. Has he put up any money? No is the answer. Wasnt convinced previously what Malcolm Murray brought to the party and still am not sure, McColl has confirmed that he won’t inject cash, Dave King may not pass ( and possibly shouldn’t pass going by the SA judges comments) a fit and proper person test.
At least the Easdales have invested and continue to invest cash.
When there is a credible group or individual let me know and maybe I and the vast majority of my fellow fans and shareholders will get behind a change of regime.
waldo 68
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@ Waldo mate mccoll said he wouldn’t invest while this board wer in charge I’m pretty sure when they get ther men on the board I’m pretty sure ther will be a few wealthy investors plus mccoll said the shareholders he is representing will also invest more money to look after the the shares they already have
thebear82
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We have heard all these empty promises before, remember Craig Whyte was a billionaire! Apparently.
Deal with the here and now, the only people who have put in cash are the Easdales and Paul Murray has the audisity to demand a place on the Board.
waldo 68
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13 Nov 2013 08:15:21
And Andy Smillies support means more than other peoples support then eh?
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Big Andy should stick to scaffolding and leave the business development to those who have the potential to develop what we have and bring in new investment
waldo 68
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@ Waldo Paul Murray hasn’t demanded a seat on the board all he has done is fight for the fans to vote who they want on the board also the easdales aren’t the only people who’ve put money in so stop talking up the chuckle brothers
thebear82
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Do any of you actually know people like Andy Smilie or Alex Morrison? No, I do not think so I have dealt with both of them over a number of years sat at Alex table for Bruno v Tyson fight. Annoys me when people talk out of school about people they do not know.
Both of them are loyal Rangers fans I have seen at hundreds of Rangers games over 35 years, sat behind mister Morrison in main stand with a long term friend that has given me a lot of the information I posted about quite a few months ago.
If people did less personal s***e on here and less talking about things they do not know about we might have more of a chance of unitying against the people that are destroying our club.
On a personal note I have yet to judge the Easdales as like I just said I do not know them, I know of their ‘reputation’ but that does not affect my judgement, they seem at least to be ACTUAL Rangers fans unlike half the clowns, CW, CG, Mather, Stockbridge etc etc plus you can’t argue they havn’t put cash in. I do find it hard to take the P Murray stance when in my opinion if PM and the Blue Knights hadn’t pissed around offering a deal of staged increments – “£11million pounds when factored out” ffs do you think the average Ranger fan understands this financial lingo? No they understand simple things like £5.5million and Green was able to cleverly just outbid. Had they not been so penny pinching they could easily have afforded say £11million in cash and this whole £22million share loss and £20million Seasons gone too could have been avoided, THINK they would have recovered their £11million by doing a share issue themselves.
That penny pinching attitude and since then STILL not actually putting up rather than talking has led me to feel that a lot of Rangers fans I disagree with actually have a fair argument. I understand Mr McColl maybe wants to play safe, but seriously how big Rangers fanatics are they in reality? I know that 99% of the Rangers support that have funded 2 season sellouts (nearly) would to a man put up £11million or £20 million to get us away from the crooks ffs Geeen said give me £20million and we will walk away. how cheap does that seem now considering we are going to need that sort of injection to survive another year of the type of spending we are seeing at Rangers.
Anyway fed up with BOTH sides as neither strike me as the sort of people I want in charge of my club, the only person I support fully is Mr King as in my opinion he cares and he will put his own money in, he has proved this before.
I see our future as 2nd Admin but we will win the league by 8/10 pts due to squad quality, then a winning bid coming in a CVA, hopfly backed by Mr King as certainly PM and Mr McColl have been a let down for me personally, my only worry is that the Administrator is independent this time with no hidden agenda supporting CW and letting Green in door, a fair Admin is our best hope.
Rant over
RTID george
george
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George, not quite sure if you were having a go at me? Then vertually agreed with me on my original point.
Never mentioned Alex Morrison, don’t know the man but I do know Andy Smillie, his company AS Scaffolding have worked for me numerous time over the years. Hopefully this put the record straight and you can get back to ranting about football?
waldo 68
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George
I may be wrong but I thought administration happens as a result of having more debt than you can service
How much debt do we have that would make us go into admin again?
Leave ibrox out of it and I will take the bet . I think you only win 4 pound though or have I to put in your 2 pound bet a aswell
I’ll be very surprised if any official censure came PL’s way as a result of his remark. I’ll be equally surprised though if censure DOESN’T come his way from the MSM, the blogosphere and official club statements about Timzilla – the giant green and white-striped monster that came out of the Irish Sea, ate up all their tax money and terrorized the rest of the country into keeping them down. Fun film fact: the part of Timzilla in the original movie was played by Sir David Murray in a rubber suit. In subsequent sequels that role was played by Craig White (in “Timzilla Must Be Blamed”) and Charles Green (in “Timzilla’s Balance Sheet is Worse Than Oors”).
v
sickofitall says: (199)
November 15, 2013 at 9:01 pm
Leave ibrox out of it and I will take the bet . I think you only win 4 pound though or have I to put in your 2 pound bet a aswell
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Have you been talking with Joe the bookie, Ok, last offer, loser puts in £5.
What’s wrong with Ibrox ? Have you nowhere to put it.? It’ll soon be bite sizes