Good Evening,
Whilst it is understandable that the continuing events at Ibrox remain a hot topic among all Scottish Football Fans — especially given the views of some sections of the press on such events– the never ending rush down the marble staircase is certainly not the only show in town.
The other morning we were treated to the “scoop” that Alistair Johnstone is afraid that Craig Whyte– the once proclaimed Multi Billionaire from Motherwell- may well still be pulling all the strings at Ibrox! This is a fear which is shared by those who walk the corridors of Hampden Park as they, too, are terrified of the prospect of Whyte returning in some shape or form and coming back to haunt them, especially as he has been deemed unfit and proper, banned sine die, and generally ridiculed for his past actions.
However, the Hampden jackets know fine well that their realm only stretches so far and that if by means of the proper application of company law, contract or some other piece of paper Whyte controls the shareholding of the self proclaimed “parent company” to the football club then they are in a fix. In fact, I will wager that they just would not know how to deal with such a situation as after all RIFC PLC neither holds a licence to play football nor is a member of the SFA and so, on the face of it, who owns it has nothing to do with them.
At this juncture, no one in authority knows who Blue Pitch Holdings are and, strangely, no one in authority knows who Margarita Holdings are either! Yet these two “holdings” whoever they may be, may well hold all the power down Govan way…… with the SFA completely powerless to find out who they are let alone get into any dialogue with them. All the SFA can do is talk to the appointed Directors and officers of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This, is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Meanwhile, they will have no difficulty in finding out who the new shareholders of Dunfermline Athletic are. Those shareholders will come from the fanbase and will be clearly registered at Companies House, with the result that ultimately those fans/shareholders will appoint Directors who will then attend meetings and speak and opine on their behalf and in essence be the ” Voice of Dunfermline” at Hampden.
Perhaps, similar will follow from Heart of Midlothian?
However, those at Hampden — if they have any sense at all– will be most wary of events happening in the east end of Glasgow come November.
In the middle of the month, Celtic PLC will hold its AGM and amidst the items on the agenda is the fan driven notion that the Club— through its Directors—- should go further in holding the SFA to account and enquire into the granting of club licences, and in particular how it granted Rangers a club licence that allowed entry to the Champions League in 2011 when the small tax case was outstanding.
The Celtic board have deemed this motion as “Unnecessary” and in support of that contention have released documentation showing that they raised this very issue with the SFA on behalf of the shareholders and fans. Further– and here is the rub— The Directors reveal that they were not satisfied with the SFA response and have disclosed that they took the matter further and wrote to UEFA.
Ultimately, UEFA also provided a reply, which backed the SFA approach and which Celtic had little option but to accept in the absence of admissible contradicting evidence..
It is on this basis, that Peter Lawell and Co say the AGM motion is not necessary. Note that saying that the motion is not necessary, is not at all the same thing as saying that what the motion seeks to achieve is not necessary or does not have the support of the board!
There will be those at Hampden who severely hope that the Celtic Board are successful in voting this measure down as obviously they deem their original reply sufficient and would like to end the discussion there.
However, my own view, is that whether the motion is successful or not, there are those within the SFA who will recognise there is trouble staring them in the face here. Real Trouble!
Let’s recap for a moment and draw some threads together.
Celtic’s past Chairman, Dr John Reid, said only a couple of years ago that the SFA was clearly not fit for purpose. He did so in the context of events surrounding Neil Lennon and other matters, but was unshakably robust in his condemnation of an institutionalised uselessness which he saw pervaded the Hampden ranks.
Prior to that, Henry McLeish produced a report which stated that he too had concerns about the Governance of Scottish Football and called for openness and transparency.
In the intervening period, we have seen Mr David Longmuir, former Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League, find himelf without a position following reconstruction– and this partly as a result of club chairmen being apparently kept in the dark about his payment, bonuses and expenes. I understand that there was considerable anger from some at the way in which they had been treated by Mr Longmuir.
Then there is Mr Campbell Ogilvie, El Presidente, who himself benefited from a Rangers EBT and who held sway at Ibrox during a period of time when Rangers– by their own admission— made unlawful and illegal payments to three high profile players in breach of tax laws and SFA/SPL rules. It is these breaches and the consequent Wee Tax Bill which has caused all the angst among Celtic fans and has lead to the highly regulated legal step of tabling a motion at the club’s AGM.
Basically, the position seems to be, that as at the due date when the appropriate documents and declarations were made for a Euro Licence by Rangers for 2011, the wee tax bill was outstanding and due. If it was overdue, then the SFA could not and should not have granted them a licence……. and potentially Celtic should then have been put forward as Scotland’s representatives in the Champion’s League.
However, that did not happen, and Ranger’s were granted a licence– something that the Celtic Directors clearly felt was not correct.
They may have disagreed with the awarding of the licence because there were those at Rangers at the time who declared that a payment to account had been made to the tax office– allegedly £500,000– and that they had entered into an agreement to make payment of the balance by instalments. Had that been so, then all would have been hunky dory and no more would have been said.
Alas, however, no such payment appears to have been made at all, and no such agreement was entered into and so, on that basis, the tax bill was overdue and outstanding as at 30th June in terms of Article 66 and as such no Euro Licence should have been granted.
However, the argument does not end there.
Auldheid, has posted frequently on these pages about the ins and outs of the licensing provisions and the mechanism and so I will leave that detail to him as he is far more expert in these areas than me.
Now, one of the SFA functions is to have an auditor– someone who can check books, contracts, paper work and so on, and it is part of the SFA licensing function to be satisfied that all the paperwork is of course correct and in proper fashion before they issue any licence.
In this case, it is alleged that the SFA did not perform their function properly.
In relation to the wee tax case, it is said that either they did not make sufficient enquiry of Rangers re the payment to account or the agreement which they were told was in place. At the time it was mooted in the press that no such agreement was in place as at the relevant date ( June 30th ) and a simple check with the revenue would have shown the truth of the matter.
Yet, for whatever reason, no such check appears to have been made, and if you recall a Radio Scotland interview with Alistair Johnstone, Rangers submitted the forms, the SFA replied with one or two enquiries about the BIG tax case which were answered, and thereafter the Licence appears to have simply dropped through the letter box without further ado.
You will also recall that the existence of the wee tax case became known BEFORE Craig Whyte bought David Murray’s shareholding in May 2011. In fact it was the subject of News Paper headlines weeks before the deal was completed, and so the fact that there was a wee tax bill was well and truly in the public domain.
When it came to filling in the appropriate forms,either, the SFA were mislead by those then at Rangers with regard to that tax bill, OR, they simply failed to do the requisite checks and make reasonable enquiries before they issued the licence.
However, the uncomfortable fact also remains, that one of the chaps who must have been in the know re the admittedly unlawful and offending side letters, contracts and payments to the three players concerned was Campbell Ogilivie who was on the Rangers Board at the relevant time when the contracts and irregular payments were made under the Discount Options Scheme from 1999 to 2002/3. Indeed he may even have initiated the first payment to Craig Moore in 1999. I reiterate that no one has ever contested that this was an unlawful scheme, and the irregular payments and paperwork are not denied in relation to that scheme.
There are Celtic shareholders who believe, rightly or wrongly, that when it came to the granting of the Euro Licence, the SFA did not play them fair on this occasion and that the wheels within Hampden were oiled in such a way that Rangers were favoured and Celtic were disadvantaged. It is a point that looks to have already been considered by the Celtic Directors in 2011, with the result that they concluded that they should formally write to the SFA and seek clarification.
However, we now have the prospect of those same directors having to go back to Hampden and say ” Sorry, but I am forced to bring this up by my shareholders. I have a legal duty to them to enquire further”. Even if the motion is refused, the point has been made– there are shareholders who are demanding answers– just as shareholders of other clubs demand answers about the ever so secret 5 way agreement and other matters which have hitherto been not for public consumption.
The SFA have nothing to fear of course as they can simply repeat their previous answers,demonstrate that all was above board, and rest easy in their beds.
Except that answer did not satisfy the Celtic Directors on a previous occasion as they decided to take the matter to UEFA, and it would appear that some Celtic shareholders remain dissatisfied with the known stance of the SFA and so they want the Directors of the club to delve further. Without wishing to point out the obvious, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted rigorously or that those at Hampden were in any way economical with the truth or omitted certain details from the previous explanation, or covered up a failure in procedures—- well such omissions have a habit of becoming public these days whether that be through the internet or otherwise.
The point here is that the actions of Hampden officials are coming under organised, legal and planned corporate scrutiny over which they have no control. The Blazer and club mentality that was once so widespread within the governing bodies is under increasing attack and is being rendered a thing of the past.
In short, the move by Celtic shareholders, is making it plain that they will demand proper corporate governance from their club in ensuring that any alleged failure in corporate governance by the SFA or SPFL is properly investigated and reported on.
Of course, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted properly for whatever reason, then it could be argued that Celtic were disadvantaged in monetary terms along with other clubs who may have been awarded Europa League licences, then the consequences could be cataclysmic. Hence a tendency to circle the wagons rather than admit to failures in the process that need addressing.
It is this reluctance to come out and accept that the licensing process appears to have failed, say at what point the process failed and what needs to be done to address those failures that in many ways has driven the resolution. It is clear to all that something is amiss but the SFA will not admit it, probably from fear of the consequences of doing so? Perhaps some form of indemnity, a lessons learned enquiry with no prejudice might help?
It would come as no surprise to me at all if there were those at Hampden who live in dreaded fear of admitting that their processes were flawed and that a grave mistake was made. Under these circumstances, there may well be those at Hampden who simply wish that Celtic and their fans would just go away!
Below is how Derry City fared when they started up after their financial woes:
http://t.co/ATAy29AhMR
blu says: (439)
November 18, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Thanks. One of the underlying objectives was accountability of clubs and the SFA and there is still more to do on the latter.
Has Project Indigo been seen before? I don’t recall that name and
a quick Google search doesn’t turn anything up.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/185060576/Return-of-Capital
has it in the header throughout the email exchange.
❓
No, I haven’t informed the liquidators.
However, there is a link in that email to an online version, which appears to duplicate the erroneous information at the bottom – for anyone who’s interested and may wish to bring the matter to someone’s attention …
http://e.rangers.co.uk/oVfwIH5Q3Uot6vLBjruYddq8Eb2xtPDx~Vutpu7TR4Y/WebView.aspx
Charlies Chuckles @CharliesChuckle 3h
Compare and contrast. 1. Draft announcement (blacklined) http://www.scribd.com/doc/185069208/Blacklined-Draft-Announcement-24-May-2013-v-27-May-2013-Drafts … 2. Official Statement. http://www.lse.co.uk/share-regulatory-news.asp?shareprice=RFC&ArticleCode=geh81sdl&ArticleHeadline=Conclusion_of_Independent_Review …
——————————————————————
Charlies Chuckles @CharliesChuckle 3h
Confirmation that the key players in the Pinsent Masons Inquiry remained silent. http://i.imgur.com/v7V9FyZ.jpg
———————————————————————
Charlies Chuckles @CharliesChuckle 2h
@JackIrvine A bit unfair given that his PR team stated Traynor was responsible for the billionaire tag http://i.imgur.com/Ac0RFGZ.jpg
Angus1983 says: (1235)
November 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm
No, I haven’t informed the liquidators.
However, there is a link in that email to an online version, which appears to duplicate the erroneous information at the bottom – for anyone who’s interested and may wish to bring the matter to someone’s attention …
http://e.rangers.co.uk/oVfwIH5Q3Uot6vLBjruYddq8Eb2xtPDx~Vutpu7TR4Y/WebView.aspx
________________________________________________
It looks like that is a Sportsdirect page. e.rangers seems to be a domain of the joint merchandising
operation. There is link to rangers.co.uk that takes you to the main site where the TRFC Ltd details
are shown correctly on the bottom of the page with the correct TRFC Ltd (Sevco Scotland Ltd).
company number SC425159.
The rangersmegastore website doesn’t seem to have any obvious company information but I
did stumble on this mine of misinformation during a brief click through. World records again.
http://www.rangersmegastore.com/CustomerServices/OtherInformation/AboutUs
mailto:webmaster@SportsDirect.com may be the place to contact if anyone wants to try.
The Derry City chairman Philip O’Doherty (as quoted by the BBC) doesn’t quite get why FAI’s application for his club to play in the Europa League was rejected.
I’m sure that should such a situation arise here in Scotland, where we have proper football administrators, the advice would be that there’s no point in applying, so we won’t.
Its my birthday today and the Balvennie will be flowing later on so expect some right daft blogs ,to start off with ,regards the Sevco winning [ha,ha,ha,he,he,he] the Scottish cup and being excluded from Europe ,what if Celtic where the unfortunate beaten finalists ,I know ,I know but bear [no pun intended] with me, already having qualified for the Champions League ,would they be allowed to apply for a B team to enter the alternative tournament and if not why not ,and ok if this is too daft a question what would the alternative be ,that the beaten semi-finalists play off for the place,honest I have not started on the stuff yet.
Many happy returns. I don’t believe you.
FIFA says: (401)
November 18, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Its my birthday today and the Balvennie will be flowing later on so expect some right daft blogs ,to start off with ,regards the Sevco winning [ha,ha,ha,he,he,he] the Scottish cup and being excluded from Europe ,what if Celtic where the unfortunate beaten finalists ,I know ,I know but bear [no pun intended] with me, already having qualified for the Champions League ,would they be allowed to apply for a B team to enter the alternative tournament and if not why not ,and ok if this is too daft a question what would the alternative be ,that the beaten semi-finalists play off for the place,honest I have not started on the stuff yet.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
http://spfl.co.uk/spfl/europe-201415/ only goes as far as the scenario of pre-qualified winner.
I suppose Campbell Ogilvie would know the answer, but he’s been a bit quiet recently for
some strange reason. Maybe the SFPL/SFA could raise some much needed finance by
auctioning it off and allowing the highest bidder to represent Scotland. I’m sure Sandy Bryson
could come up with a previously unknown rule that allows a mid-table but wealthy EPL
or Russian club to receive Scottish FA registered status. Mind you UEFA would never allow
a club to play in the Europa League that was not fully eligible, would they? 🙄
Have a good birthday FIFA and enjoy the Balvenie.
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/184969094
Who is Raj – that was sharing Imran’s flat and that Sevco want half the rent off him?
jimlarkin says: (641)
November 18, 2013 at 2:57 pm
Possibly
Rangers Commercial Business Manager, Raj Athwal
Previously held similar roles at Watford and Coventry
https://twitter.com/CharliesChuckle for those not on mobiles.
I don’t do Twitter, so I don’t really understand how it works. Can someone
confirm whether the Jack Irvine messages about Keef “Wacko” Jacko
are genuine and if so is JI actually posting on the artist formerly known
as Charlotte Fakes’ account or have they been reposted by someone else?
KJ must be getting heartily sick of being reminded about that article.
If you’re reading Keith, it was the one about the Motherwell Born Billionaire
and something else about wealth off the radar. At least that bit was accurate
although probably not in the way it was intended.
Warning all ye Internet Bampots!
Spent the last 30 mins trying to get rid of a virus that I suddenly got on my PC – last thing I was doing was downloading the new offerings from Charlotte that were posted in last hour or so.
Careful! Just saying…………
Exiled Celt says: (799) November 18, 2013 at 3:20 pm
————————————————————————
Have checked with ESET Smart Security 4 (Bus edition) and latest signature database …
Performed new scan … just in case ….
All looks fine
newtz
Newtz – no problem – I got some malware suddenly downloaded that I had to go into admin/safe mode to get rid of it – bit of a pest but was only thing I had downloaded (sad am I not) – just saying be careful and ensure your PC settings are all above board and making sure its safe. Not trying to scare folks – just asking to be careful 🙂
The Cat NR1 says: (13)
November 18, 2013 at 1:08 pm
………………………………………
It sure has all the hallmarks of a certain PR office instructing certain journo’s to counter the Rory Bremner FC throw away joke by big Pete….
You can just here it…’right I want you to lay it on real thick…big up the same club mantra…142 year of history blah blah blah’
Expect more of this garbage to be written…every time someone mentions they are deid!
If this is what is written after Peter likens them to Rory Bremner…can you imagine their response if it was reported seriously?
WOW!
charlotte’s new twitter account has been suspended
The folks at HMRC must still be wiping the tears from their eyes after reading Chuckle’s pleading for leniency in the letter he sent to them in January. This must have caused particular mirth:
“…In short, Rangers went from being a £60m turnover business, producing in normal circumstances substantial employment tax and VAT revenue….”
Normal circumstances being some time 20 odd years ago??
http://www.scribd.com/doc/184955632/Taxing-Matters
andy says: (273)
November 18, 2013 at 4:58 pm
charlotte’s new twitter account has been suspended
———————————————-
All her recent stuff is still on scribd if you follow the link in my post above or the links that others have posted this afternoon.
Exiled Celt says: (800) November 18, 2013 at 3:42 pm
————————————————————————
Sensible to flag any intrusion, esp after a download. Gives others clear warning to check and others with strong security to look closer and check / report.
Have caught a few after folllowing links to RM (Tut Tut), and was able to warn.
Cheers
Hey, Happy 800 …
It’s a small world.
I knew about Richard Philip Bernstein and Eurovestech Plc but until I saw Charlotte’s latest I did not know they were linked.
Not only is Mr Bernstein the Eurovestech PLC CEO but he is also the 3rd largest shareholder with 9.5% of the shares. In 2012 the companies broker was Cenkos Securities plc.
The Eurovestech 2012 Annual accounts states the following:
“In March 2012 Eurovestech signed a co-operation agreement with Cenkos Securities plc in which each party aims to benefit from the others expertise and networks to help companies raise money.
The agreement focuses on the Middle East, where Cenkos will work with Eurovestech on any suitable opportunities for clients to raise funds on NASDAQ Dubai, and also covers Eurovestech’s introduction of other investors to Cenkos”
In May 2012 The Daily Record reported “Green lived in Dubai for three years and has a vast network of contacts in Asia.” Cenkos, as we know, was formally the NOMAD for RIFC Plc.
In November 2012 Bernstein and Eurovestech’s names appear on the pre-IPO shareholders list.
A small world indeed.
No1 Bob says: (50)
November 18, 2013 at 6:38 pm
It’s a small world.
==================
It’s a Spiv Spiv Spiv Spiv Spiv World.
November 18, 2013 at 6:38 pm
1 0 Rate This
It’s a small world.
I knew about Richard Philip Bernstein and Eurovestech Plc but until I saw Charlotte’s latest I did not know they were linked.
Not only is Mr Bernstein the Eurovestech PLC CEO but he is also the 3rd largest shareholder with 9.5% of the shares. In 2012 the companies broker was Cenkos Securities plc.
The Eurovestech 2012 Annual accounts states the following:
“In March 2012 Eurovestech signed a co-operation agreement with Cenkos Securities plc in which each party aims to benefit from the others expertise and networks to help companies raise money.
The agreement focuses on the Middle East, where Cenkos will work with Eurovestech on any suitable opportunities for clients to raise funds on NASDAQ Dubai, and also covers Eurovestech’s introduction of other investors to Cenkos”
In May 2012 The Daily Record reported “Green lived in Dubai for three years and has a vast network of contacts in Asia.” Cenkos, as we know, was formally the NOMAD for RIFC Plc.
In November 2012 Bernstein and Eurovestech’s names appear on the pre-IPO shareholders list.
A small world indeed.
============================
Was the new chairman (the dundonian) not alleged to have had links with laxeys too ?
Re the letter allegedly written by Charles Green to HMRC re the FTT appeal. I note with interest two of the people the letter is copied to. If this letter and the CC recipients are genuine, we are once again entitled to wonder if the leaders of two democratically elected governments were/are involved in discussions which could prejudice the tax collection agency in its attempts to secure what it believes the country is owed. We all get hacked off at times over the tax we pay, but it underpins our democratic society.
I note with interest two of the people the letter is copied to.
unfortunately Alistair McGowan got dave’s letter & Rory Bremner got alex’s.
It seems Mr Green was seeking leniency from HMRC as his Rangers was tainted by the actions of someone else’s Rangers. If only he’d given his club a different name, it could all have been avoided. It’s not as if changing company names is a problem for him.
On the letter to Lin Homer.
If Rangers are a new club, totally separate from the old club (and we are talking business now rather than football) why would Charles Green, or any one else at Rangers give a flying fug whether or not HMRC took the parts of the original appeal they lost to an Upper Tier Tribunal. As he said it is no business of new Rangers’, why would it be that was a totally different entity.
It’s just more example of wooly logic, like being liquidated but still the same. In fact there’s that point raising it’s head again. Same when we want to be different when we want to be, have it both ways.
If Charles Green was so sure about the position with HMRC then why write and try to influence them at all. Why copy it to influential people unless you wanted them to use their … influence.
Pathetic nonsense.
For the first time in a long time, I had a wee peek at Rangers Media site to see what was ‘topical’.
The highest viewed topic was Lawwell’s AGM comment, and the extract below is just a random – but amusing / worrying comment;
“…Lawwell saying it is different to bloggers and journos. It could be seen as the ceo of a rival company deliberately attempting to diminish a brands value on the stock market. If Declan O’Declan writes it in his blog noone pays any attention. When the CEO of the second biggest company in the country in the same field goes out his way to do so then its more serious.
Could you imagine the CEO of Samsung coming out and deliberately trying to devalue Apple stocks? There would be big lawsuits everywhere. ”
===================================
So there you have it: Lawwell’s comment was to adversely affect TRFC’s ‘brand value’… 🙄
…and after all that careful brand management by TRFC over the last year too… !
StevieBC says: (890)
November 18, 2013 at 8:07 pm
RM: “When the CEO of the second biggest company in the country in the same field …”
——
So Celtic are the “second biggest company” in Scottish football? (I note not “club” and titter at the latest step in remodelling of fitba language.)
Anyway. Who, then, are the “biggest” company? I demand to know etc.
StevieBC says: (890)
November 18, 2013 at 8:07 pm
RM quote: “Could you imagine the CEO of Samsung coming out and deliberately trying to devalue Apple stocks? There would be big lawsuits everywhere”
—
Virtually every major announcement from Apple is an attempt to devalue rival companies indirectly. The first few minutes of the last product keynote was Tim Cook having a massive go at Microsoft. Part way through, Nokia released an advert knocking Apple and claiming they had nicked an idea. It is what COMPANIES do.
Litigation only actually abounds over serious stuff like copyright. Y’know, if someone was trying to pass something off as something else, in order to mislead consumers.
None too bright over there, are they? I blame the schools.
Angus1983/StevieBC – Suddenly every young football supporter has to know about AGM’s, share issues and IPO’s. When I was young if you mastered the offside rule or how many bounces the goalie could take you were doing well. When I was in my teens, all I really bothered about was why Sturrock and McGhee could score whenever they wanted against Aitken and McAdam……if only I had known football was never that simple!
Exiled Celt says: (801)
November 18, 2013 at 9:09 pm
3 0 Rate This
Angus1983/StevieBC – Suddenly every young football supporter has to know about AGM’s, share issues and IPO’s. When I was young if you mastered the offside rule or how many bounces the goalie could take you were doing well. When I was in my teens, all I really bothered about was why Sturrock and McGhee could score whenever they wanted against Aitken and McAdam……if only I had known football was never that simple!
=====================================
totally understand what you are saying here, but for me….and I’m sure a few others….the situation is that unless RFC (whichever entity) are properly punished and a clear distinction between Sevco and RFC is made, then the game for me is a bogey, i’ll not be back at a game (at any level) and i’ll not be encouraging my kids to participate in what is nothing more than WWF smackdown TV entertainment.
I have no problem with Sevco exisitng, i don’t really mind them pretending to be Rangers, i don’t mind that their supporters have adopted them as the same club….all I want to see is
1. RFC punished for the EBT scheme (in practice it will mean being found guilty as they are already being liquidated)
2. a revisiting of the LNS decision with those titles “bought” removed from from the record (not awarded to anyone else – just withdrawn) and also punishment for the DOS which has been ignored
3. a thorough investigation into the RFC 2012 UEFA license
4. Confirmation that Sevco do not possess the history of RFC – in regards to the past titles won
without that, then what is the point? I would actually EXPECT my club (Celtic) to use cheating as a legitimate means to achieving on field success – and if that means hospitals and schools (and soldiers) go without – then fair enough, that, it would appear, is the nature of the game in Scotland.
upthehoops says: (660)
November 18, 2013 at 6:58 pm
I wouldn’t worry to much about the cc’d in politicians in Mr Green’s letter. I am surprised that he didn’t cc in her majesty, especially after Ian Davidson MP (vice-loon of the Westminster Rangers Supporters Club) telling everyone what a great fan of the Mighty Glasgow Rangers, Elizabeth Battenburg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha is!
Really, its a fairly transparent, and rather pathetic, attempt to “leverage” HMRC. I am sure the people at Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs enjoyed it as much as we are….
Who knows, maybe they sent it on to Her Maj, with a suggestion that “her team” might want to pay their feckin taxes….
David McSheffrey @dmcs_92 8h
@OfficialNeil Direct quote gaffer, aye? pic.twitter.com/3OuDrZfqoM
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Neil Lennon @OfficialNeil 7h
@dmcs_92 quite the contrary
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David McSheffrey @dmcs_92 7h
@OfficialNeil As I expected
Michael Clinton @Mickybhoy1978S 7h
@OfficialNeil @BhoyEddie @dmcs_92 More made up lies from the sevco obsessed rags.
john hughes @Hughesybhoy72 6h
@OfficialNeil @dmcs_92 a heard what neil had to say on ss1 and he definetly never said that #scottishmediaatitagain#
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Neil Lennon @OfficialNeil 6h
@Hughesybhoy72 @dmcs_92 spot on ….selective quotes to suit a non story
==============
Neil Lennon about the “Old Firm” story.
I find CG’s letter to HMRC, FM and PM on a par with the more mental things Charlie done. It comes across as if he’s instructing them more than pleading with them IMHO. Given the lack of cooperation with HMRC from the beginning and later on the photographing of tax officials, I would have thought any letter would have been nauseatingly apologetic and given us all the boak, but no, more deluded righteousness. I’m surprised he never stuck in some Masonic jargon, WATP and signed it no surrender Charlie. That more likely pissed hector off, anyway every little helps.
Comments that are just pasted twitter conversations are just gibberish…to my eyes anyway!
Thought for the Day:
Be Real : Tell The Truth -Respect Will Follow
Be Unreal : Respect Will Follow ,Follow etc
Thought for the Day:
Be Real : Tell The Truth -Respect Will Follow
Be Unreal : Respect Will Follow
Follow
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (1026)
November 18, 2013 at 9:22 pm
100% agree with you – I was just longing for the days when youngsters could argue about fitbaw – but that is not our fault – its the very people who were supposed to have nourished that innocence and maintain that excitement and interest that have ravaged the landscape – so much so that now there is no turning back to those days. That is why we are all on here – we all now want to see some people held to account for their duplicity in all of this – whomever they are and whatever organization they worked for.
vvv
vivitron says: (10)
November 18, 2013 at 10:03 pm
Comments that are just pasted twitter conversations are just gibberish…to my eyes anyway
=========================
Sorry about that, I was just being lazy.
upthehoops says: (660)
November 18, 2013 at 6:58 pm
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Surely not implying that the Scotland ‘Justice Minister’ would require encouragement to be sympathetic to the dead club?……..he does so love a sing song mind you.
Bold Alex is not impartial to the auld ‘you scratch my back and i’ll scratch yours Donald’ business route.
The other bloke I don’t recognise.
all scribd and imgr links appear to have been removed already?
Can someone else confirm this. All this stuff is now being removed at impressive speed…….
peterjung says: (49)
November 19, 2013 at 12:32 am
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0
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Confirmed.
Hope someone captured it.
someone is getting rattled.
GOOD!
Scribd says…
“This content was removed at the request of Rangers Football Club”
Edit – whoever they maybe?
StevieBC says: (890)
November 18, 2013 at 8:07 pm
££££££
Jack has neutered RM by disallowing any discussion of the board/finances and only letting favoured posters comment on poppies, lawell, minutes’ silence, Lennon, armed forces day, media references to ‘deidco’. But mainly how obsessed everyone else is about their club.
Jack’s feeding the flames with petrol!
I am sure there must be a few on here who saved copies of the latest offerings from Charlotte. Care to share these?
Curious to know under what grounds these are now able to be pulled down so quickly?
Pedantry, shirley, blu 12:50… ❓
peterjung says: (51)
November 19, 2013 at 2:25 am
3 0 Rate This
I am sure there must be a few on here who saved copies of the latest offerings from Charlotte. Care to share these?
Curious to know under what grounds these are now able to be pulled down so quickly?
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Not that I’m a legal expert, but isn’t it on the grounds of how the information was obtained, rather than the information itself. Their actions would appear to suggest the information is 100% true!
For the fellow bampots who do not know how to screen grab on a pc.
To capture the entire desktop, press the Print Screen key. (next to F12)
To capture only the active window, press ALT+Print Screen.
Then, start MS Paint or some other application and select ‘Edit’ then ‘Paste’ from the menu then Save.
Listening to BBC Sportsound from Sat
TE states more than once that the SFA have said Sevco is the same club ,can anyone show me a clip of such a statement .
GS at least had the balls to tell the truth at the start
As for KJ what a complete and utter clown of a man ,IMO he is either as thick as the wife’s gravy or he has JI on speed dial .
Also they rant on about the obsession Celtic fans (only according to them ) have with Sevco .Message to all these clowns .Fans of OTHER CLUBS are not obsessed with Ragers we are just not willing to sit back and go along with the total sham they and the SFA are attempting to pass as truth .
Call Sevco 2012 who they are (TRFC PLC ) not RFC 1872 and we will all be happy enough to MOVE ON .
One thing that sticks out in that show on Sat and every media sports show in Scotland .is that they are more than happy to declare that Sevco are the same club but are extremely reluctant to say they are not .
Listen to the contrast in GS answer to the new club question compared with KJ ,even though GS cleary believes that they are a different club he has to pause and temper his answer ,KJ however has no such qualms
davythelotion says: (231)
November 19, 2013 at 12:46 am
9 0 Rate This
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Just had a wee gander at the @JackIrvine twitter account. If that is his actual account he’s getting some serious abuse from elements of the Ibrox support. Makes you wonder what his motivation is. I take it that it’s money and a certain ideological bent.
fergusslayedtheblues says: (213)
November 19, 2013 at 7:07 am
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I have no doubt someone from within the SFA (wonder who!) has briefed selected hacks that they are regarded as the same club. The fact that they don’t put that view up for public debate tells me they know fine well there will be many legally backed counter views which will make a mockery of their stance. It is well known Regan had this perception of public unrest over Rangers, and it appears the transfer/same club argument is a grasp at thin air to at least allow the bears to convince themselves it is true and avoid the unrest Regan believed would happen.
As for the panelists you are spot on in that the same club argument can be put out there vigorously, but any argument to the contrary is tip toed around and tempered with a stance of ‘what does it matter anyway?’ Spiers has always taken the the view of liquidation experts that they are a new club, but immediately qualifies it with the ‘technically’ argument, then almost goes on to say they are the same club. English always throws in the rider that if it’s the same club it’s the same disgrace over non tax payment, but then goes on to ignore the fact that Sevco, while claiming to be the same, have completely washed their hands of the non-tax payment. Jackson simply doesn’t deserve to be discussed.
They can say what they like. If what happened at Ibrox had happened with ANY other Scottish Club, they would be first in the queue to be outraged at any claim a newco was indeed the same club that stuffed us all. I am also sure they would have battered down the door of the SFA to get a statement on it.
upthehoops says: (662)
November 19, 2013 at 7:23 am
1 0 Rate This
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A caller to SSB last night contradicted the pundits — who were giving it the “Well, to me it’s the same club” line — by mentioning the creditors of the supposed ‘same club’. Funnily enough, Guidi & Co backtracked a little into the “Well, it’s not the same club from a creditors viewpoint, it’s a new club, but to us it’s the same new club”.
Liquidation as debt management is the way ahead, endorsed apparently by the SFA.
Here’s a wee thought. If Oldco Rangers had made public a plan to enlist the use of EBT’s to pay players they could not otherwise afford and told everyone that they were going to refuse to pay tax and NI to allow them to run the club, that they were then going to put the club into administration and subsequently liquidation stiffing everyone who offered their services to the club as well as the supporters who believed they had a seat for life so that they could emerge as the same club but without the debt would the plan have been accepted as a great business ploy? Would it have been accepted by the MSM as a simple manouvre to move the club forward? If all that we know now was put forward as plan to enhance the game would all clubs not just follow suit?
I guess what I am asking is would the viewpoint of the SFA and the SMSM be any different had the plan to drop the debt and remain the same club been made public beforehand? Would the plan have been deemed acceptable?
Old Club/New Club Red and White and Blue Club
Isn’t the whole point of rules regarding club status to deter unscrupulous, incompetent, or cavalier clubs from simply running up debt, dumping it, then (perhaps with the aid of some smoke and mirrors) trying to carry on as if nothing had happened?
I have always (naively?) assumed that the rules in this regard are intended to warn clubs that if they can’t manage their finances fairly and properly (to the extent that a club ends up needing to be liquidated), then such clubs actually need to be prevented from carrying on; for the good of the game.
Without the threat of this ultimate sanction, there is little incentive for any club to bother about managing its finances efficiently.
A good name for it might be the ‘Ye cannae huv yir cake and eat it’ rule.
For those who do not have Windows and for a description of some other ways to save a web page just click on link below:
http://tinyurl.com/prh3jjm
Carfins Finest says: (44)
November 19, 2013 at 8:22 am
22 0 Rate This
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Absolutely not. We’d have heard endless lectures on the rules, law of the land, loyal subjects, Gretna, Airdrieonians, Thirds, etc.
The more I think about it, the more JI appears a central figure in the whole game-plan. He’s the only (visible) constant as multi regimes have come and gone. Doubt he’ll be able to plead ignorance of the facts if anything ever comes to trial.
Shugg’s latest episode of –
is Oldco / Newco the same-Co
Is boring him to tears.
As a journalist (I know, I know), Why doesn’t he demand an answer from the SFA ? Hmmmmmm?
I’VE thought of a new event for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow next year.
It’s called oldco/newco and it involves people running round in never-decreasing circles with nowhere to go. The winner is decided when the last member of the audience dies of boredom.
And what setting could be more appropriate for the first race than Glasgow, the home of the football club whose age can drive people to the limits of human endurance?
Hal Campbell, Dundee, said: “Rangers were liquidated in 2012 and no longer exist. Fact. The Old Firm is now defunct. Fact.
“A completely new club was established and admitted to the SFL. Fact. The Rangers have only won one trophy. Fact.”
I’m losing the will to live. Fact.
Owen Dolan, Coatbridge, said: “If Rangers are still the club they always were will they pay their debts to their creditors, including the tax man?”
Jim Kerr, Renfrew, said: “The people who say old Rangers exist remind me of those who claim there’s a Loch Ness monster, and we all know there isn’t.”
And Stevie Campbell, Glasgow, said: “If Celtic are going to continue making insinuations about Rangers I hope my club investigates their financial dealings prior to Fergus McCann’s arrival in 1994.”
Speaking of whom, James Robertson, Glasgow, said: “I’m being deadly serious when I say Rangers should hire wee Fergus on a consultancy basis and tap into the knowledge of a financial genius.
“They could pay him a suitable bonus when he’s ended the saga of an Ibrox board that doesn’t work.”
I won’t hold my breath for that one happening.
The reason why Peter Lawwell was ill-advised to make his Rory Bremner joke at Celtic’s agm is that it has now become a running sore.
Jimmy Wilson, Glasgow, e-mailed: “I read Hotline caller Jimmy Millar say he wouldn’t go back to Hampden so long as Peter was part of the SFA board.
“I didn’t know Jimmy supported Queen’s Park. He can’t be talking about when Rangers get back there, can he?“
Oh, the banter.
Mick McCormack, Uddingston, said: “If Rangers pursue a complaint against Lawwell I hope the lawyers they hire get their fee up front while there’s still money left at Ibrox.”
And Peter Wedlock, Glasgow, struck a sombre note when he said: “The people who are up in arms about Lawwell should look at what’s going on in the Philippines right now and get a life.”
But that message didn’t register with everyone.
Jimmy Murray, Edinburgh, e-mailed: “Celtic will probably be out of Europe after Christmas and could be out of the Scottish Cup before then as well.
“And they’ve wasted £5million on two poor replacements for Gary Hooper, so why were Neil Lennon and Lawwell laughing at the agm?”
That’s one ‘Probably,’ a ‘Could’ and an assumption of failure. Hardly watertight evidence.
Tam McGeary, Dundee, said: “Why are people complaining about Celtic refusing to pay some employees the living wage when Rangers didn’t pay anybody before they went into liquidation?”
Because it’s not nice. The same as running away from your debts.
Gerry Graham, Glasgow, said: “If Rangers want an apology from Lawwell they should issue one to the people who suffered financial hardship when they reneged on their debts.”
And Eddie Williams, Wishaw, said: “Lawwell was correct. Rangers are a tribute act and it is the fault of the media that they’re not treated as a new club with no history.”
I’m standing here affronted with my bottom lip trembling in penitence.
On to the real world and Ronnie Knox, Tullibody, said: “Recalling Kris Boyd for Scotland is hardly building for the future. How is a young player like Stevie May supposed to feel when he’s overlooked?”
Derek Simpson, Falkirk, said: “Dundee charged more for visiting Falkirk fans than they did for their own on Saturday and the difference was as much as eight pounds if you went through the parent and child gate. No wonder people are staying away from the game.”
David Kenneth, Paisley, said: “I watched Bradford City play Coventry on Sunday and the home team’s striker Nahki Wells was sensational. Celtic should buy him.”
Douglas Hannah, Edinburgh, said: “I don’t like the sound of most of the names I’ve heard linked with the vacancy at Inverness.
“I’d go for Craig Levein as he was good for Hearts and Dundee United before his Scotland experience.”
Gerry Crombie, Edinburgh, said: “When will the SFA stop Willie Collum from being a referee? He gives penalties that never were and then denies the blatant ones. The man is hopeless.”
If you’re looking for someone to second that motion, Derek Adams is your man after Ross County’s defeat at St Mirren.
UTH (or Fergus, I forget which)
If you don’t mind I’ve added a little edit to your earlier post. Hope you agree. Your version first.
upthehoops says: (662)
November 19, 2013 at 7:23 am
fergusslayedtheblues says: (213)
November 19, 2013 at 7:07 am
================================
They can say what they like. If what happened at Ibrox had happened with ANY other Scottish Club, they would be first in the queue to be outraged at any claim a newco was indeed the same club that stuffed us all. I am also sure they would have battered down the door of the SFA to get a statement on it.
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They can say what they like. If what happened at Ibrox had happened with ANY other Scottish Club, they would be first in the queue to be outraged at any claim a newco was indeed the same club that stuffed THEM. I am also sure they would have battered down the door of the SFA to DEMAND THAT HEADS ROLLED.
I am sure many are bored by the Old Club / New Club debacle but it is good to see some posters getting the reasons for the debate back on track.
The reason many people want to see a clear announcement that T’Rangers is a new club is because it is deemed as an appropriate punushment for financial wrong doing.
As folk have said above, it should really be about the creditors who have been totally shafted by the fiscal incompetence of the old club. The whole thing brings the game into disrepute and no ruling authority should be seen to allow perpetrators get away with a minor slap on the wrist.
While I am no apologist for the CVA route of shedding debt it is at least a process where creditors may get something as opposed to nothing.
The message from the footballing authorities should have been clear. No matter how big or how clever you think you are Liquidation means starting all over from the bottom.
The thing that seems to have been forgotten is that not only have the authorities (and Stewart Regan in particular) been vague on the subject of the status of T’Rangers, they were on the verge of letting T’Rangers start in the SPL and that plan B was only going to be SFL1!!!
Thank goodness for the fans from all other clubs who, as decent hard working people, saw through the whole farce and expected the shysters to be treated the same way as any other rogue trader would be.
Anne Robinson for SFA president
The problem for the Govanites
is that with the loss of their club history
they feel cut off from the 1690 game
and everything of that hue since
which is so dear to their loyalist hearts,
and in which same hearts,
football is not actually their primary concern.
Entering liquidation effectively killed the club
and signalled the end of their history
which, culturally, and essentially, included 1690,
leaving the Govanites with nothing
except staring oblivion in the face
and the SFA looking at a future dressed as a nightmare.
Hence the underlying reason
for everything that has happened
since the CVA was rejected on June 14 2012.
Indeed, this was no ordinary death of a football club.
Meanwhile, traditional loyalist defiance continues to
refuse to accept the Insolvency laws of the land
– nothing new in that –
which brings us to the ongoing contortions and distortions
which we are all so familiar with.
Doubtless, this ongoing refusal to behave like the vast majority
of law abiding citizens in the UK,
will continue for some time yet, but eventually,
Her Majesty’s laws will prevail.
And we’ll all get some peace!
Where does anyone connected with either Rangers at any level get off on asking HMRC to go easy because it might affect future business?
That letter reads as an admission. It is a letter of intent that Sevco intends to trade on Oldco’s name.
“Please stop trying to get back some of the money our predecessor stole from you cos the phoenixing connection which we deny completely will result in problems for us”.
The way the administration seemed designed to prevent a CVA, This letter seems doomed to failure in its stated intent, but is tailored to nudging HMRC towards coming after newco.
Jim Larkin
There we have it ,Jim from renfrew has nailed it , from now on all fraudsters will have the title Loch ness in fron of their names ,Loch Ness Keevins ,been a pundit that long he now thinks he is a journo ,the new entity that plays out of Ibrox ,Loch ness Rangers ,SFA President Loch Ness Ogilvie ,we are told they are out there somewhere but where.
wottpi,
There is another angle that you omit, and surprise surprise it confuses the issue once more. To be absolutely clear from the outset, I am in full agreement with your hypothesis – that administration is one thing and liquidation quite another. One has a reasoned outcome that can basically go one of two ways. The other has an inescable inevitability about it.
It is clear that there appears to be a determination from some to make a distinction between company thus bringing in all that troublesome debt, tax and creditors and other technical stuff of irrelevance 😉 and club talking purely about football. To attempt an analogy, which made you happier after your team won at Ibrox? The fact that the board of directors were going home unhappy (the company) or the 40,000 fans going home to kick the dog (the football)? But even that theory comes unstuck in two places – at least two places. Firstly it assumes that the footballing entity RFC were playing on a level playing field whilst the tax scams were in operation. It assumes that the wins they got were attained by fair means. That the fact that the De Boers and Flo’s were playing was almost an irrelevance – that they would have won anyway or at the very least come second thus gaining access to the vital CL funding drip. I’m genuinely sorry if this seems like a generalisation but I’m afraid every west coast based journalist is imbibed with this view from birth which is why the Jacksons of this world find it odd that anyone would object to the oldco fantasy being perpetuated. ‘It aye wiz.’
Now I mentioned a complication (and I’m aware that I’m still only on the first of my two points). LNS was designed (in more ways than one) to complete the footballing arguement. According to LNS RFC attained no financial advantage by not paying their way the same as every club did and even if they did it was not reflected in their footballing performance anyway. Obviously that is why they have such a large cash stockpile at the moment!!! I would fully expect anyone who made it to the steps of hampden to argue my first point, that despite the Jacksons of this world perhaps RFC might not have been quite so competitive had they actually paid their dues that they will simply have the LNS result thrown back in their faces. (I’m absolutely aware of auldheid and others’ sterling work in showing LNS up for the farce it was but that won’t stop the ‘on yer way’ reaction that any questioning would receive.)
Secondly, and this has been touched on by others so I won’t dwell on it. It has been gone over many many MANY times before. I think it was Jackson earlier who said something along the lines of people will continue to believe what they want to believe vis a vis the oldclub arguement. Absolutely correct. There is however one body who don’t have that luxury. Unless they have the old club and new club registered as two different entities (surely not?) then you can opine that the 11 guys walking up the stairs for their medals look like, sound like, feel like RFC all you like but when you go back to your book you have to record who it actually was who just won the medal. Personally I would have thought it would be in their interests to make a distinction between the old and ne club if for no other reason than to avoid Brechin signing Messi on a friday night then going bust on the Monday, then signing Iniesta on the Friday night and so on. Personally I would have thought it would be in their interests to keep a long distance between them and phoenixing rules. These examples are all based on sound legal thinking, common sense and experience. Perhaps the SFA have their own reasons why instead they want, they appear to need old club to be just that. Again apart from some bizarre sense of ‘it aye wiz’ I cannot for the life of me think what that reason could be, apart from fear. Fear of the unknown? Fear of the perception (armageddon)? Certainly it would appear, its cetainly not fear of their pensions disappearing down the swannee and their cushy lifestyles being torn from them.
As John Clark continues to champion to his credit. RFC in whatever guise are now the bit part players. They are the biggest, possibly world record breaking bit part players ever, but they are no longer the main event.
It has to be said / asked
– what if the SFA actually came out and said
We regard Sevco as Old Rangers ?!
Would the Creditors be able to make a Claim ?
http://news.stv.tv/stirling-central/249278-stirling-university-hockey-team-faces-discipline-for-sexist-singing-on-bus/
Maybe the trustees of Stirling Uni should be running Scottish football
Now – Where’ s that video of the Sevco v Berwick game. . .
Bent ( adj ) – Crooked ( adj ) – Dishonest ( adj )
a dishonest lawyer
a dishonest way of making money
morally dishonest
intellectually dishonest
He’s been dishonest in his dealings with us/about his past.
How long before the common English language uses ……
‘As Bent As Sevco’ 🙂 ( Copyright )
Morning all,
I’m sure someone mentioned this a few days ago.
If RIFC shareholders must be informed no later than 20 working days before the AGM then the board have,by my reckoning ,until Friday to get the notices sent out.Allowing for the vagaries of the postal system,would it be fair to assume that notices really should be going out no later than tomorrow,allowing 2 days for delivery?.
FIFA says: (402)
November 19, 2013 at 10:31 am
Jim Larkin
There we have it ,Jim from renfrew has nailed it , from now on all fraudsters will have the title Loch ness in fron of their names ,Loch Ness Keevins ,been a pundit that long he now thinks he is a journo ,the new entity that plays out of Ibrox ,Loch ness Rangers ,SFA President Loch Ness Ogilvie ,we are told they are out there somewhere but where.
======================================
I suppose then that Lord Nimmo Smith would still be known as LNS,although this would now mean Loch Ness Smith ❗
Quite apt really,as the verdict he came up with didn’t exist either 😉
From what I’ve read If directors have traded with the same or a similar company name without the Court’s permission, all debts incurred may become their personal liability. Has the Court given permission in this case? Apologies if this is old hat.
Also, the role of liquidators of a business is to gather and sell the assets of the business to raise as much as possible for creditors, no more no less. To achieve this end they are armed with formidable powers to enable access to assets. They act, then ask questions.
In this case the assets are right there, yet nothing seems to have happened except the issue of a list of costs. Maybe I’m under the wrong tree.
That’s a point – has the bold Mr Lunney completed his investigation yet? I’ve heard that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but how many months is that now?
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says: (1129)
November 19, 2013 at 11:30 am
8 0 Rate This
Morning all,
I’m sure someone mentioned this a few days ago.
If RIFC shareholders must be informed no later than 20 working days before the AGM then the board have,by my reckoning ,until Friday to get the notices sent out.Allowing for the vagaries of the postal system,would it be fair to assume that notices really should be going out no later than tomorrow,allowing 2 days for delivery?.
20 clear working days required TJB, so can’t count date of the AGM or the deemed service date, so need to be with shareholders tomorrow by my reckoning. Hopefully they will post something on their website tomorrow for our elucidation. 😛
Shooperb says: (328)
November 19, 2013 at 12:29 pm
Now – Where’ s that video of the Sevco v Berwick game. . .
That’s a point – has the bold Mr Lunney completed his investigation yet? I’ve heard that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but how many months is that now?
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There’s a backlog mate. Investigation pending on the old dead Rangers at the empty San Siro.
Killie game investigation……..again before they died.
Was the Berwick game the one where ESPN apologised to their viewers?
And some people say they MISS this??? 😯
I see the UTT hearing is now listed for 24th February and scheduled to last until 21st March. I hope Lloyds have taken the prudent view, that to defend this for that length of time will be very costly for Murray Group. MIH are balance sheet insolvent, and Lloyds have had to swap £hundreds of millions of debt for equity in an insolvent business.
I hope they remember that they should not use public funds, given the UK government are their largest shareholder, to defend a case undermined by the Aberdeen Asset judgement . If Murray wants to continue with the defence , slaughtered by Heidi Poon, then get him to pay the legal fees personally