Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?

ByElijah Baley

Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?

Charles Green has declared war on the Scottish football authorities. His statement and that of Duff and Phelps today deserve detailed analysis, which is ongoing at McConville Towers as we speak, and will be concluded as soon as Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and Peter Lawwell tell me what to write.

For now, I wanted to speculate if Mr Green had managed to forget the terms of the SFA Rules, under which Rangers FC was censured for his comments some time ago. Mr Green could well have forgotten, as the censure took place as long as eleven days ago.

The relevant rules are as follows:

Rule 1: All member clubs shall:
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play;
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect of the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.

Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Officials and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.

Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.

Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.

Now let’s see where Mr Green might, through inadvertence, have sinned against those rules, accidentally of course. The following are extracted from his statement on the official Rangers FC website.

“Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.

“Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff. I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.

“Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission?  Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all?  No. They did absolutely nothing.

“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us – as the new owners – took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.

“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.

“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.

“I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.

“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.

“The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.

“Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?

“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.

“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.

“It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.

“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.

“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.”

——————————————————

Have a read through these edited highlights once again…

The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening … the Commission is not independent of the SPL … They (the SPL) did absolutely nothing … the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga … a full blown inquisition … it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position … we believe the SPL have been hypocritical … There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible … It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions … Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.

——————————————————

Mr Green has issued a lengthy statement, as can be seen from the fact that what is shown above is only an extract from it. It is on the official Rangers website, and is stated to be by “Rangers Football Club”.

If this is not a declaration of war on the SPL and by extension the footballing authorities in Scotland, I don’t know what is.

I spoke to a friend who compared some of Mr Green’s recent statements to what has become known as “dog whistle politics”. There is little of the dog-whistle about this – instead it is a clear rallying cry to the loyal support of Rangers, which will, I am sure ensure that the turnstiles keep clicking at Ibrox for some time yet.

As of a few minutes ago the respective posts regarding the statement on two of the main Rangers FC fan sites showed a total of 867 posts and over 26,000 views. Not bad for a statement issued two hours ago!

I also suspect that the reaction there will be 100% positive.

Deciding that they are refusing to play and denouncing the process before the first hearing takes place is an interesting tactic. Now, if the Commission proceeds, in the absence of both oldco Rangers and newco Rangers and delivers a damning judgement, it will be ignored, it appears, by Mr Green and his company. And, if action is taken, then they propose to invoke the aid of the courts to stop disciplinary action happening.

What strikes me is that, once again, Mr Green is playing a masterful hand. He is a king of diversion. When the transfer of the SFA membership took place Mr Green said:-

“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs.  As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”

What he has managed to do is to build the impression that the one penalty, above all others, which newco will not accept, being the most horrendous possible, is the stripping of titles. Not being barred for all time from, membership of the SPL; not being suspended for a longer period than the next three years; not the imposition of further financial penalties…

No, the one penalty to be fought against, above all others, is one which will cost newco not a penny, and will in fact generate more support from the fans.

As I said, it is brilliant!

He has challenged the football authorities to take action, as indeed he promised he would. So much gratitude for the three ruling bodies pledging to “facilitate” Rangers entry to SFL3!

And as far as his attack on some, but not all, SPL teams, one wonders why he felt constrained from telling us who they were. After all, Ibrox is the home of clarity, transparency and free speech!

However the extracts above indicate numerous ways in which the rules quoted at the top of this piece are broken. Will the SFA have the courage of its convictions to take action? Will the SFL take any steps itself?

Or has Mr Green stared them down, and, as long as the share flotation comes along in the near future, enraptured the fans into subscribing in their thousands?

As has been the case ever since RTC started, this piece could end with the line:- we have no idea what will happen next; we will have to wait and see!

Posted by Paul McConville

About the author

Elijah Baley subscriber

1,814 Comments so far

agropelicanPosted on11:51 am - Sep 17, 2012


Will the establishment club be stripped of their titles if found guilty? I would like to think so but have a deep-rooted suspicion that that will not happen.

Many have called for the stripped titles to go to the runners up. Who would want such tainted titles? Better, that history records the fact as ‘award withdrawn’ or some similar phrase that lets the reader know that the award was tainted.

Lest we forget.

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ExiledCeltPosted on11:52 am - Sep 17, 2012


Goosy says:

September 17, 2012 at 11:14

Excellent analysis as always

I think I remembered the English law side and went trawling (not trolling :-)) for it

It was from your post actually on Aug 19 – another good piece

Quote

So the neat way out was for D&P to sell the assets to Green on condition Sevco also accepted transfer of the Ticketus debt and the CW FC
D&P then argue to BDO that it’s a good deal for the remaining Creditors as it removes £54.5m of debt including an alleged preferred Creditor
However the real aim is to legitimate the CW floating charge by transferring it to an entity where there are no hostile Creditors
Similarly transfer of the Ticketus debt safeguards their entitlement to future STs They may even have also switched the legality from English Law to Scots Law with Green`s agreement
All that remains then is for Sevco to be liquidated

Endquote

Since you make more sense than the Spivs, I think you are onto something – D&P maybe tried to get the court to accept it in their court case with L Hodge but foudn themselves having to scramble again.

I think we can agree that the spivs are either not very good at what they are trying to do – hence the constant scramble for plans b c and d – or they thought the public up here were not that attentive – or more likely told by someone on high that it was “nae bother”.

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ParmaHamsterPosted on12:01 pm - Sep 17, 2012


What is it with the TD’s to TSFM’s proposals?

I demand to know who these people are:)

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carl31Posted on12:20 pm - Sep 17, 2012


The facts and merits of the Juninho EBT can be argued re moralising over avoiding tax, but the recent resurfacing of the issue is under the MSM heading of ‘SPL investigation’.

The SPL and their commission have no interest in the tax issues of EBTs. They do have interest in dual contract payments/further payments for footballing activities that might not have been fully declared to the Scottish Football authorities as per the rules. The two issues (EBT payments/dual contracts) are linked, but are not the same.

SPL are satisfied that all the necessary payments from Celtic to Juninho for footballing activities were declared. They did nothing wrong.

Its been posted here, and elsewhere, before that examination of Celtic’s accounts provide insight into the Juninho EBT. There wasn’t one before 2005, there was one in 2005/06 accounts and there wasn’t one in subsequent years – so it could be assumed that it was set up to pay Juninho. Celtic may have set it up at the request of the player and/or his agent, but it was Celtic’s responsibility just the same. They paid the tax due at a later date, but not in the same financial year. They are not currently being pursued by HMRC on this because they have paid the tax due, and recognise and agree with HMRCs view of the tax liability on such payments. Rangers would not have got into the mess they found themselves if they had adopted a similar position.

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Alex CoxPosted on12:27 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Have Rangers been sharing their home gates with their SFL opponents. Given the precarious state of lower league football it would be the sensible and moral thing to do.

No, actually it wouldn’t. If a lower league team is not earning enough to support itself and cover it’s expenses then it is being operated badly. Spending more than it is earning. That is the path to ruin.

Does anyone know the last time an SFL 3 team went into admnistration, or even worse was liquidated. I can’t remember any recently. Maybe they are being run y sensible people who realise that they must budget according to their income.

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BrendaPosted on12:32 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Going slightly off topic but just been speaking to friends who were at the sevco game on Saturday (Annan supporters) they apologised to me for never believing my rants about the abuse and bile coming from the supporters of this dying club!!! They left at half-time unable to let their children hear the filth that was coming from the away support……….. Do us all a favour please and kill them off immediately…….. Is nothing being done about the chants and sectarian abuse coming from this lot? Scotland’s shame indeed.

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tearsofjoyPosted on12:45 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Ozyhibby says:
September 17, 2012 at 08:39
11 4 i
Rate This
With stories emerging this morning of Hearts failing to make payroll, it will be interesting to see if this really is just an anti Rangers blog.
Will there be a forensic examination of Hearts finances in a clear case of financial doping (it’s only 2 weeks since they signed Ryan Stevenson)?
will there be articles about which SPL rules are being breached?
This is a great oppurtunity for The Scottish Football Monitor to prove it’s claim to be about all of Scottish football.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
A tedious and predictable post from the other side of Edinburgh.

Financial doping (ie late payment of wages) = unfair sporting advantage.
Is that how Hibs fan see this ?
Seriously ?
Vlad has” financially doped” HMFC and just look at the success it has brought – 2 cup wins in 7 years. Yup, his behaviour has really altered the landscape of Scottish football.

I’m not defending Vlad but that allusion is laughable.

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FIFAPosted on1:04 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Brenda
Surely you friends must be wrong and just making this up ,I have not heard a bad word said in the media [or a report for that matter] of any bad chants or singing of banned or offensive songs ,people should leave these fans alone and stop picking on them,on the positive side I read that Annan had played some Sevco songs to get them in the party mood [wont do it again I bet] and the media reported on this ,they surely would have reported the down side if it really happened,I’m confused.

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WOTTPIPosted on1:06 pm - Sep 17, 2012


carl31 says:
September 17, 2012 at 12:20

………….Rangers would not have got into the mess they found themselves if they had adopted a similar position.

==============================================

I thought it was an interesting point on Saturdays Your Call where I think it was Jabba who said that Arsenal owned up to their EBT and paid tax but it was not for the full amount but on a lesser negotiated deal with the HMRC.

(Could it have possibly been that they paid the original amount due circa £11m and HMRC waived the penalties? Google not coming up with a quick answer to what they actually paid)

And is that not the point. Rangers under both SDM and Whyte either weren’t willing to deal or couldn’t agree a deal with HMRC to make this one go away.

At the same time they didn’t appear to have made appropriate moves to set money aside to pay the bill if it came down to the worse case scenario.

People have been talking about Hearts finances but compare selling on Templeton and paying John McGlynn’s wages as opposed to Paulo’s to the activites at Rangers.

Yes it can be argued that they tried to cut costs in some areas but nowhere near what was actually required given the level of debt along with the tax case on the horizon.

It looks like Rangers took a long shot on Euro money coming in, where in Arsenal’s case they had a lot better odds of getting their hands on that particular pot of cash along with other lucrative deals and agreements in the EPL.

Arsenal they got the taxman off their back so end of that story. However reports in 2005 make reference to three contracts

“Top Arsenal players usually sign two contracts. The first pays them an annual basic wage mostly taxed at the higher rate of 40% plus National Insurance.

However, they also have a second “shadow” contract for performance-related bonuses that reward success on the field. These can account for up to half the total pay package and are paid via two offshore front companies that accountants say enables foreign players to avoid almost all tax.”

The issue of two or three contracts is then a matter for the FA to see if the players paperwork meets their registration requirements.

To date there has been no reported issue. Therefore
1) There is no case to answer
2) The FA (and fans of other clubs) aren’t bothered about persuing it.

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justafanPosted on1:12 pm - Sep 17, 2012


miki67 on September 17, 2012 at 04:03
———————————————————-
Right I’m going to bite here, miki67 are you so arrogant to come out with that kind of statement that you have never looked at your own knuckledragers on your fans sites? To suggest that we are all like that is pathetic(and let’s he honest,that’s what you are doing) does your team really need supporters like you? My guess would be an almighty NO! And yes I did mean to shout. Have a nice day!

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BrendaPosted on1:18 pm - Sep 17, 2012


FIFA @ 13:04

That thought came into my head and I too have scanned the papers (in the newsagents) and nothing? I am totally astonished, just can’t believe our dedicated,honest, sports journalists ETC did not hear it!!!!! 🙂

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longtimelurkerPosted on1:24 pm - Sep 17, 2012


From KDS re phoenix companies from HMRC’s website.

Makes for interesting reading (apolos if already posted).

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11737285&t=8731534

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jockybhoyPosted on1:27 pm - Sep 17, 2012


ParmaHamster says: September 17, 2012 at 12:01
I was assuming the TDs were in relation to having to actually register before posting. I don’t think there was anythign particularly TUable about this proposed evolution, but anything that restricts access to those motivated enough to register is not a bad move imo.

TSFM – what sort of traffic do you get here? You of coyurse know that any passwords will reduce it. I think you mentioned previously that you wanted to get the site a bit better known – as I understand it, search engines give prominence to sites with a lot of pages, references to relevant key words, but also for sites which are linked to others. I think they mark downwards (TD if you like) sites with passwords. One option might be to try and get links to other sites – maybe a directory of all the teams in Scotland with links to their sites? Official and unofficial (is there a sane Rangers site?). This would be relevant in the context of Scottish Football Monitor being non-partisan with respect to teams supported. You might also get reciprocal links which would help drive visitors and of course help search engines find this site.

Fao the cognoscenti. If am barking up a wrong tree, vis a vis search engines, don’t be shy in letting me know!

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Alex CoxPosted on1:30 pm - Sep 17, 2012


longtimelurker says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:24
0 0 i
Rate This

From KDS re phoenix companies from HMRC’s website.

Makes for interesting reading (apolos if already posted).

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11737285&t=8731534

===============================

I remain of the opinion that HMRC will not be interested in taking any action with regard phoenix trading unless it can be shown that the same people are behind the business.

I have yet to see that, other than in convlouted conspiracy theories.

They will take action against those involved, but that will be through the liquidation and the actions of BDO.

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aureliozenPosted on1:30 pm - Sep 17, 2012


test

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verselijkfcPosted on1:31 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Apologies for slight off-topic diversion; the headline first got my attention (thought it was about oor-charlie or jack-in-the-hat), but the story itself is familiar, applicable and brings some context to the money-commodity-media cycle afflicting the world. It’s no’ just happening in Alba.

*Mr Rent-a-Quote fools mainstream media*

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/mr-rentaquote-fools-mainstream-media-8007769.html

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Doon the slopePosted on1:42 pm - Sep 17, 2012


J McLure

I was a member of a Celtic forum. I left it mainly because I was tired of people mentioning their granny had just died or making reference to some tragedy and the blog being taken over by well meaning, but utterly off topic, expressions of condolences.

Never, in all the time on that blog did I ever see comments which came anywhere near the depths of some of the Rangers forums in terms of disgusting, base, intimidatory, sickening, garbage which goes unmoderated and appears to be actively encouraged.

Please take your ‘whatabootery’ elsewhere.

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smallteaserPosted on1:57 pm - Sep 17, 2012


longtimelurker says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:05

All rangers fans are the same and you are simply at the madam, a troll is what you are in the modern parlance.

Doon the slope says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:42

Please take your ‘whatabootery’ elsewhere.
==========================================================================
I think you are playing into any trolls hands and I don’t for one minute mean JMc.
You diminish this site every time you call someone a troll, or come out with the “whataboutery” insult.
This site must be better than that, it has to be open to all.
Whataboutery is not wrong unless you can argue the difference between the two subjects, a perfectly valid argument can be made from whataboutery.

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smallteaserPosted on1:59 pm - Sep 17, 2012


miki67 says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:54

miki, maybe the question that should be asked is why so few clubs are complaining about it.

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tilhotdogsbarkPosted on2:03 pm - Sep 17, 2012


CE says:

September 17, 2012 at 10:48

I’m afraid I’ve always been a Null & Void man. The flaw in the 3-0 argument, is what do you do after the first season when RFC(NIL) would have been relegated?

————————————————

But they were not relegated so each season must be treated on its own merits.

Let’s say that the dual contract issue came to light right at the end of the first season that RFC(IA) won the SPL. At that stage there can be little doubt that each game where they played ineligible players would have the score amended to 3-0 to the opposing team and the League Table adjusted accordingly. In this case the team emerging at the top would rightly be declared Champions.

So because of the incompetence or complicity of the administration, the team that should have won the title are denied this record because it was not discovered/uncovered at the time of the wrong doing. Rough justice indeed.

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ExiledCeltPosted on2:05 pm - Sep 17, 2012


I have to second Doon the Slope here – I have thanks to this blog and also RTC been able to read many teams blogs for many of the teams in the SPL and even West Ham etc. I used to go on the SPL clubs supporters forums around the time of the SPL vote to gauge the mood of the day. There were lots of posting – some humourous, some in jokes, some at the expense of other clubs – but you could join in and follow the debates.

I have also wandered into RM, FF and VB – however as DTS states the utter lack of any debate – anyone not following the party line is called everything from kiddy fiddlers to taigs to utter nonsensical tirades. Bear in mind it then becomes a hard man competiiton of who can insult anyone the most. It gets very dispiriting to see that knd of bile being used to silence the others.

Where do the good Bears go? Please tell me and I will try to engage – however even on Rangers Standard we have Chris Graham not willing to answer any questions or counter points – so where do they go to debate?

My brothers and nephews all love to get their news from these sites – you cannot debate or have a meaningful conversation with anyone once they have suckled at the breast of Leggo in his underpants………but I would love to try – same as I do with them – to get them to understand the facts and think for themselves.

This site is a ladies tea party in comparison – anyone suggesting otherwise only needs to take a look at the posts at the foot of Stunney’s mornign paper articles where posts are put into the public domain with reference to said accusations about Jock Stein and such – sad excuses for human beings.

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Alex CoxPosted on2:06 pm - Sep 17, 2012


smallteaser says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:57

Whataboutery is not wrong unless you can argue the difference between the two subjects, a perfectly valid argument can be made from whataboutery.

====================

Only if you accept tu quoque arguments as being perfectly valid.

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WOTTPIPosted on2:20 pm - Sep 17, 2012


smallteaser says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:57

The whataboutery problem is that it is often a one way street.

Folk come on and raise a new subject. Other posters are more than willing to debate that but if the person who raised the new subject is asked.

“Whatabout the Rangers?” the debate tends to come to a halt.

People are then left to draw their own conclusions.

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justafanPosted on2:22 pm - Sep 17, 2012


@Brenda, I have friend who also are Annan fans and they said the Sevco fans where fine. Funny that aint it?

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Billy BoycePosted on2:24 pm - Sep 17, 2012


In today’s Daily Rancid, Jabba bemoans the injustice of the treatment meted out to Rangers by the powers that be. He goes as far to suggest that the current Ibrox woes are partly due to Celtic’s failure to act as the SFA’s watchdog.

(quote) “These two would have scrutinised one another’s annual accounts so if anything had been amiss with Rangers’ practice why wouldn’t Celtic have brought it to light?”

Trainor’s article is aimed at the crestfallen bears and will no doubt give them some (false) hope re: the two-contracts tribunal outcome. Phil Mac neatly describes Jabba’s latest musings as a Media House production.

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goosyPosted on2:30 pm - Sep 17, 2012


From STV 27 June 2012
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/108240-rangers-crisis-ibrox-and-murray-park-hived-off-to-separate-newco/
A spokesman for Rangers confirmed that there had been a transfer of assets between one newco and a second separate newco. He told STV: “For the avoidance of doubt, Sevco 5088 Limited bought the assets of the Rangers Football Club and then transferred them to Sevco Scotland Limited so that all the assets would be in the Scottish registered company that is Rangers FC.”

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Question for our Legals

Is it legal for Sevco 5088 to make the following deal with D&P on 14 June if Sevco 5088 Ltd do not own Sevco Scotland Ltd ?( n,b Assume both Cos have indentical shareholders and share splits on their respective registers)

1 Sevco 5088 undetake to pay RFC(IA) £5.5m for certain assets

2 The title deeds for MP and Ibrox are to be passed directly from RFC(IA) to Sevco Scotland

3The floating charge held by The Scottish Sports Council over MP is to be delivered to Sevco Scotland

4The floating charges held by Close Leasing and RFCG are to be delivered to Sevco 5088

Items 1 , 2 and 3 have happened

Item 4 is speculation

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JustinianPosted on2:31 pm - Sep 17, 2012


WOTTPI says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:06

It looks like Rangers took a long shot on Euro money coming in, where in Arsenal’s case they had a lot better odds of getting their hands on that particular pot of cash….
__________________________________________________________________________

Apology for veering slightly off topic. I am amazed when I hear heavy criticism of M. Wenger.

With regard to WOTTPI’s specific point. In this millennium there have been 15 completed CL Group stages (12 as per each completed season plus 3 additional Group Stage 2’s).

Only 3 teams have competed in all stages ie 90 games. Arsenal, Man Utd and Real Madrid.

As a guesstimate I reckon that AW has managed/coached his various squads to a minimum benefit of c £150M in CL revenue for his Club.

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BrendaPosted on2:31 pm - Sep 17, 2012


justafan @ 14:22

It’s WERE fine not ‘where’ fine were they sevco fans from Annan or maybe even Arran? 🙂

Keep trolling 😉

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stmileyPosted on2:31 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Brenda

I have pondered what the ‘great adventurers’ welcome may be like second time around.

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smartie1947Posted on2:33 pm - Sep 17, 2012


WOTTPI @13.06

Re Arsenal query above.
I posted circa a month ago on this, but as senility creeps in, I have already forgotten all the precise details of HMRC’s involvement with the Gunners.Suffice to say there appears to have been 2 separate settlements involved.
One was on EBTs early in the noughties, at a time when several EPL clubs were being chased for o/s tax. Interesting to note that the enquiries emanated from info obtained from the clubs by the F.A., who seemed to act as a conduit for HMRC. (I wonder if that ploy was ever tried by HMRC with the SFA and to what end?).
The 2nd settlement involved monies paid as image rights, which suddenly became the agents choice as a way of securing untaxed monies for their players. HMRC had a sweep on such schemes and nipped the m.o. in the bud quite quickly.
Whether either settlement involved penalties is unknown or it may have been a HMRC “amnesty” to clear up all the cases as quickly as possible at minimal expense.

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ExiledCeltPosted on2:36 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Picture the following scenes

(1) Craig Whyte has been announced as the new owner of RFC with off the radar wealth.

The SFA say hang on a minute – we are not letting you buy RFC off SDM for 1 pound – we want to know more about you, where the money is and what plans you have – until such time we are not letting you put your money into RFC.

(2) Hugh Adam publishes his crticism of the financial management of SDM – Celtic FC make a statement that they have noticed this EBT thing in your annual accounts and we would like to get some information on exactly what that is

(3) Mark Daley makes his first program – SFA/SPL say we need some answers here – we also hear from a blog called RTC that you have not paid taxes this year even though 99% of what they say is crap, we still want to see your books to make sure you are doign the right thing.

Now would the outcome for all 3 induce which reaction from the Bears:

(1) We welcome the help – please come and make sure that the people running the club are doing the right thing
(2) Away and mind your own business – nothing to do with you
(3) Something more hateful

Alastair Johnston and Jabba suggest it would have been the first.

If someone did it to my club I would say no 2 – and so would the Bears last year in all fairness.

If someone did it right now to TRFC, no 3 may well come into play

That is how much nonsense Jabba is talking

View Comment

Lamp Post SanniesPosted on2:44 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Tommy says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:24

Where do you begin in trying to counter that sort of logic.

Has anyone in the media actually read a set of accounts, Rangers plc or any other company. A one line note buried after the actual figures stating that “Rangers paid £XXm into Remuneration Trusts” or words to that effect does not in any way tell you that in actual fact 30 players and other staff were paid via EBT loans in addition to their normally contractual salary this season”. For all anyone could tell the full amount of the payment to the trust could have been for the benefit of Sir David Murray or even the Tea Lady, no-one could tell either way. Annual accounts aren’t designed to give you this level of detail. To the best of my recollection none of the notes mentioning the payments into trusts in any year specifically mentions payments to players, I’m sure they only mention ‘for the benefit of Employees, past or present’. (I could be wrong here, it’s been a while since I looked at their accounts).

Even if the accounts did mention how much was paid to players or anyone else, why inthe name of the wee man would it be Celtic’s responsibility to make sure that these payments were above board and properly registered with the football authorities. I cannot believe this man gets away with such idiotic comments. Why is he still employed by anyone for his supposed expert knowledge.

View Comment

WOTTPIPosted on2:45 pm - Sep 17, 2012


smartie1947 says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:33

I think it is the case that generally the HMRC will try and do deals where possible but will dig their heels in if it is a big case or the subject of their attentions are being particularly difficult.

Given all the bluster from SDM in previous months about how certain they were on their legal advice etc, then I’m guessing they were happy to go for the jugular on this occassion.

View Comment

Billy BoycePosted on2:45 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Alex Thomson’s latest blog – the Scottish MSM with their heads in the sand.

One or two Rangers supporters have been asking in recent weeks why I decided to write the foreword for Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s book on Rangers, Downfall.

There’s been rather a lot of noise about this so let me stick to some clear facts which illustrate why I endorse the book and why it is telling that – as far as the publisher is aware – not one MSM newspaper in Scotland has reviewed the book as yet.

Which is odd, since it is currently into a third print-run; it is billed as Scottish Book of the Month in WHSmith and has been high in the Amazon bestseller lists.

It is also (small detail lost in ear-spitting hysteria) the truth about Rangers.

I’ve had the usual endearing tsunami of abuse from a small number of Rangers’ fans for endorsing a book most claim not to have read (yes, I know…) But not one single communication taking issue with the facts, substance and truth of Downfall.

The book is the truth – and no Rangers fan reading it will disagree with that. This is why I endorsed it.

I have never met Mr Mac Giolla Bhain.

He was not the source for any of the major stories about Rangers Channel 4 News broke this year.

He wishes to see Rangers FC obliterated as far as I can discern.

I wish to see Rangers in the Champions League again.

Mr Mac Giolla Bhain supports Celtic. I (let me say this just one more time) don’t.

He writes about Rangers’ downfall with undisguised glee and mirth. I write, saddened for their legions of loyal fans so badly sold out by the suits.

But as a journalist and an outsider to this cauldron I simply want the facts of Rangers’ implosion in the public domain and those responsible held to account.

That is why I made this clear in my foreword. And made it clear I do not, could not, share the Celtic-driven motivation of Mr Mac Giolla Bhain and other notable bloggers.

However, though the author and I may be in very different places, we want the truth about what happened.

So all those interested should have one simple question in mind – is the book the truth of the Rangers fiasco? That, ultimately is all that matters.

I believe it is.

I also believe the bizarre adventures of “Downfall” en route from the printers to the bookshelves prove an important dimension of the book and of my investigations into Rangers.

Namely, the way in which the MSM in Glasgow have been outflanked by the bloggers and their distaste for handling the truth the bloggers have consistently delivered.

Time and again the bloggers got the story first, and they mostly got it right. With some notable exceptions, Glasgow’s MSM were left playing catch-up and even now, handed the story on a plate, bizarre things happen.

The Scottish Sun’s u-turn and refusal to serialise, having done a double-page spread promoting the author and the coming serialisation-that-never-was will long remain a baffling and scarcely explained episode.

Apparently it was not worries about a boycott. Apparently it was not the result of intimidation.

But didn’t The Sun publish two pages on the author being threatened by Rangers’ fans in their own pre-serialisation splash?

Didn’t The Sun approach the publisher asking for serialisation rights and not the other way round?

Curiouser and curiouser…

So a man comes along plainly telling the truth about Rangers. Nobody disputes that. The Sun un-serialises and starts apologising. No other paper publishes so much as a review.

And a review of a book which charts many things and one is – guess what?

Yup – the strange, historic reluctance of the MSM in Glasgow to handle the truth of what happened at Ibrox.

Many thought that culture was something of the past, gone with Sir David and Craig, history. Many thought that things are different now in Glasgow. The bizarre conduct of the MSM over Downfall suggests to some that the fear, the deference, is alive and well.

Others will say Scotland’s newspapers completely ignoring the inside story of the nation’s biggest-ever sporting business catastrophe and near ruination of a gigantic footballing culture, was, well, just coincidence.

Nothing to see here. No story. Move along please.

View Comment

bogsdolloxPosted on2:48 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Tommy says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:24

In today’s Daily Rancid, Jabba bemoans the injustice of the treatment meted out to Rangers by the powers that be. He goes as far to suggest that the current Ibrox woes are partly due to Celtic’s failure to act as the SFA’s watchdog.

(quote) “These two would have scrutinised one another’s annual accounts so if anything had been amiss with Rangers’ practice why wouldn’t Celtic have brought it to light?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Does it not occur to James that it would be better if the SFA Auditor had been paying more attention to the accounts?

Traynor really is thick rather than devious.

View Comment

TSFMPosted on3:16 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Piston Broke & Longtimelurker;

Posts removed for totally unacceptable language. Blanket stereotyping of people is insulting to many valued posters on this blog and cheapens the whole tone of what we are trying to do.

Any repeat and I will have to remove posting rights.

View Comment

ExiledCeltPosted on3:17 pm - Sep 17, 2012


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19626562

Rangers winger David Templeton will be sidelined for up to five weeks with ankle ligament damage

View Comment

essexbeancounterPosted on3:19 pm - Sep 17, 2012


gie’s a gonk says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:44
2 0 i Rate This

Tommy says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:24

Where do you begin in trying to counter that sort of logic.

Even if the accounts did mention how much was paid to players or anyone else, why inthe name of the wee man would it be Celtic’s responsibility to make sure that these payments were above board and properly registered with the football authorities.(my edit)
=======================================================================

In my days working for the “Big Five (now four!) there was a practice whereby one firm would review another firm’s files to ensure that amongst other things, best practice was employed and accounts were “useful” to users, however that need may be defined.

I find it hilarious to suggest that CFC or its appointed employee or agent, should be expected to “review” the accounts of RFC or any other body…just what is this man’s angle…apart from “making it up as we go along”…?

View Comment

CEPosted on3:26 pm - Sep 17, 2012


“All rangers fans are the same.”

Utterly idiotic nonsense. Many of them share some common misconceptions about their newold club, but to claim they are all the same is plain wrong and just as intellectually vapid as many a statement from Chris Graham.

View Comment

Humble PiePosted on3:36 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Is cowardice in the ranks of the SFA destroying Scottish football ?
It is my view that it is not Rangers (old or new,) per se, who are responsible for the slow lingering death of the game in Scotland. Yes, those now notorious ‘guardians’ of this once ‘prodigious institution’ are certainly guilty of financial doping (cheating), disregarding the articles of association and bringing the entire game into disrepute. However, notwithstanding the undoubted effect this has had on both creditors and loyal supporters of the (now defunct) club, this has served only to bring the whole sorry state of affairs in Scottish football to a head. In my humble opinion, it is the repeated failure of ‘Scottish football’s governing body’ to act, ‘without fear or favour’ on the numerous and blatant breaches of their own rules, that has brought us to where we are today.
Over the last year or so, no-one, not one person, I have spoken to, including supporters of the Old and New Rangers, has indicated any respect for the SFA nor any individual who holding office in said organisation. Any residual trust in this failed institution existing, outside the bubble of the Rangers saga, must be based purely on cognitive dissonance because, and let’s be honest here, Scottish football is a shambles, at all levels. Whatever they have been doing for the last thirty or more years to improve the game in this country has evidently been unsuccessful.
There is no doubt that it was the failure of Rangers to pay their statutory PAYE and NI contributions which forced the club into administration, the subsequent hiving off of their assets and their inevitable liquidation. It is also unquestionable that this has and will continue to have a negative knock on effect on the finances of the whole of Scottish football. However, if we could ignore dEBTs, financial instruments and tax evasion for a moment we may get to the nub of what exactly is/ has been going on here. These financial issues are complex, legal, corporate and commercial and will no doubt run their course in due time. However, in the meantime, we should perhaps concentrate on what Donald Rumsfeld would call the ‘known knowns’, by which I mean, those things that we know that we know.
Football is a sport that involves, to varying degrees, kicking a ball with the foot to score a goal. Sport being a form of competitive physical activity which, through casual or organized participation, aims to use, maintain or improve physical ability and provide entertainment to participants. Sports are governed by a set of rules or customs, which serve to ensure fair competition, and allow consistent adjudication of the winner. These rules are governed by the all encompassing principles of respect, fair play and sportsmanship and are agreed to by all participants. Simple enough one would think!
So, it is an absolute prerequisite in sport that all participants in any game agree a set of rules. In order to maintain these established rules and discourage rule breaking, the rules have to be enforced. Enforcement requires two things: sanctions or ‘punishments’, if you will, for rule breakers and enforcement officers to apply the rules (in this case the SFA).
The failure of the SFA to simply apply their own ‘agreed’ rules has allowed a few nefarious individuals to usurp these rules to the detriment of the game as a whole. The apparent overseers of the game in Scotland are guilty of abrogating their responsibilities in favour trying desperately to maintain the status quo. By their wilful inaction, they have allowed an entirely new corporate entity, which exists solely to maximise profit for its investors , to claim, by virtue of some assets that they may or may not have acquired, that they are that once proud institution called Rangers.
This new corporate entity now seeks to extract as much of the hard-earned cash of the many decent and loyal supporters of the old club as they possibly can before this ‘fiction’ is exposed and they ‘sell out’ and move on to ventures new. Their Marketing Plan is as simple as it is disastrous. It could be called ‘Play up to people’s prejudices’. That many of the old Rangers supporters have failed to see this is a tragedy for which the Scottish sports media are also eminently culpable. However that’s for another time.
It is the SFA who have sat back and allowed this situation to unfold. They are the governing body in this country and, as such, have a responsibility not only to the participants of the game but also to the spectators (or fans, if you will). By allowing Mr Green, Mr McCoist et al to claim, without counter, that their new club is the same as the old club and that this club and supporters are being attacked from all sides by the SFA, the SPL and the mhedia (sic), they have not only undermined their own authority, they have allowed tens of thousands of football fans to be duped into parting with their cash believing they could save their beloved (soon to be deceased) club.
The money paid towards season tickets, the RFFF and any matchday profits could potentially have bought the necessary assets of Rangers on behalf of the fans, with any surplus used to agree a payment plan with creditors, potentially stopping the original club from being liquidation and thus have a chance of preserving their precious history while rebuilding their club from the ground up. I am sure that the fans would have bought into that, but now it’s too late. The officers of the SFA are seen to have endorsed this ‘now, then and forever’ fiction by their obfuscation and voluntary inertia. In doing so they have fermented discord and distrust amongst fans as well as, some might argue, Scottish society as a whole. That the ordinary taxpayer continues to contribute to this farce through the provision of government grants makes a mockery out of a sham.
So one should ask, “what is the motive behind the SFA allowing this situation get so out of hand ?” Pragmatism ? Well, no, they have had to go out of their way to bend, fudge and ignore their own terms of reference in order to keep the fiction alive. Vanity ? No again, I doubt the SFA have ever been so unpopular with fans across the board as they are now. That leaves us with cowardice. It is my view that Mr Regan, Mr Ogilvie et al are scared of what they perceive might happen to them if they try to enforce the rules. If the SFA can’t apply the ‘without fear or favour’ then the reality is that the rules are just there to be broken.
Dr King once said, “Cowardice asks the question, ‘Is it safe?’ Expediency asks the question, ‘Is it politic?’ Vanity asks the question, ‘Is it popular?’ But, conscience asks the question, ‘Is it right?’ And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because it is right.” It is well past time for someone within the corridors of power at the SFA to do the right thing. Just come out and say it ! “The Rangers are a NEW club in the third division of the SFL”. There, that wasn’t so hard now. Was it ?

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essexbeancounterPosted on3:45 pm - Sep 17, 2012


bogsdollox says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:48
1 0 i
Rate This

Tommy says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:24

In today’s Daily Rancid, Jabba bemoans the injustice of the treatment meted out to Rangers by the powers that be. He goes as far to suggest that the current Ibrox woes are partly due to Celtic’s failure to act as the SFA’s watchdog.

(quote) “These two would have scrutinised one another’s annual accounts so if anything had been amiss with Rangers’ practice why wouldn’t Celtic have brought it to light?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Does it not occur to James that it would be better if the SFA Auditor had been paying more attention to the accounts?

Traynor really is thick rather than devious.

=======================================================================

bogsdollox ….(…had to be careful there!)….with all due respect, I think that to place the onus for ensuring that the accounts of a minor plc (but not insubstantial company such as RFC) comply with anything other than the most basic SFA requirements would be asking too much.

It should be borne it mind that even with all its international resources available, Grant Thornton would have had a difficult time in assessing the potential impact of the now discredited EBT sysytems and their wrongful administration.

As I have posted on here in this matter before, it would not surprise me in the slightest had Grant Thornton pointed out the ruinous implications of any action or investigation by HMRC…but hey, it was (-S)DM they were dealing with…!

I only wish the MSM would engage a member of their respective business or city desks to make any related comments in this area…it would save a lot of embarrassment…but hey wait…no…!

View Comment

longtimelurkerPosted on3:55 pm - Sep 17, 2012


TSFM says:
September 17, 2012 at 15:16
5 1 Rate This
Piston Broke & Longtimelurker;

Posts removed for totally unacceptable language. Blanket stereotyping of people is insulting to many valued posters on this blog and cheapens the whole tone of what we are trying to do.

Any repeat and I will have to remove posting rights.

******************************************************************************************************************

Just what is the point of this blog exactly?

Why don’t you, PL, just write whatever it is you want to write and be done with it?

What is the point of a blog like this or forum or whatever if someone constantly deletes and edits other people’s posts?

This blog is descending into farce,

Who can take it it seriously when anything that appears on it is the work of one or two people?

Joseph Stalin would have been proud of this blog.

This blog is now, in my eyes at least, a complete joke and a total waste of time.

Joe McCarthy had nothing on this blog.

“Goodnight and Good Luck”

William H Murrow.

View Comment

Jimmy Bones (@JimmyBo90672977)Posted on3:55 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Senior says:
September 17, 2012 at 11:39

Very well written Senior – the quality of your prose puts the content into question. I also will await a volunteer of literary merit ! Step up guys n gals.

View Comment

Alex CoxPosted on4:05 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Tommy says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:24

(quote) “These two would have scrutinised one another’s annual accounts so if anything had been amiss with Rangers’ practice why wouldn’t Celtic have brought it to light?”

=============================

That really is clutching at straws.

It is Celtic’s fault that Rangers did what they did and that the SFA let them away with it.

So nice to be able to blame the victims (all other clubs, not just Celtic) rather than the offenders.

View Comment

wulbaPosted on4:06 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Jabba is a clown

View Comment

agropelicanPosted on4:15 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Humble Pie says: 15:36 Is cowardice in the ranks of the SFA destroying Scottish football ?

Good post.

It isn’t cowardice.

The establishment within the ranks of the SFA that is what is destroying Scottish football.

Where is George Smiley when you need him?

View Comment

Paddy TurnerPosted on4:15 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Da da

Name change ……..name change

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carl31Posted on4:19 pm - Sep 17, 2012


IMO, Jabba is playing the strategic game…

Context: for as long as I have been aware, there has been, in various public fora, a series of attack/defend moves between two sides of the West of Scotland Old Firm teams. These almost always have been mirror images of one another (generally), eg where sectarianism on one side pops up, sectarianism on the other can also be shown, or for each hopelessly inept waste of money that one side fields, a similar example can be thrown about.
I often wonder how the game would have went had the main Rangers striker been Sebo up against Scheidt at the heart of the Celtic defence – an inversion of the classic paradox … The infinitely resistible force against the infinitely movable object :O).
The sentiments range from good hearted banter to real nastiness, with no subject matter off limits.

The Rangers Saga has thrown up a situation of imbalance, where one side have did something that has no mirror image. Currently, those perceived to be on the side of Celtic have a free run in their criticism of Rangers – for obvious reasons. The Rangers side are constantly on the defensive. Always looking to bluff, fluster, divert and adopt the full range of defensive tactics. What they dont seem to have in any convincing way, is the ability to disprove quite serious allegations.

Strategically, they also want to be able to attack. But the problem with this is that Celtic have done nothing of similar seriousness to attack to such an extent as to even come close to a mirror image. So, in an attempt to somehow get on the attack the Rangers side have to adopt a scattergun approach and fire at absolutely anything they possibly can – even if it stretches logic to its limits.

Jabba is playing the strategic game … but it is a clear example of blatant strawclutchery.

View Comment

agropelicanPosted on4:24 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Taken to the extreme, moderation is complex and can be difficult to not only accept, but also understand and implement. It can also be recursive in that one should moderate how much one moderates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderation

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WOTTPIPosted on4:30 pm - Sep 17, 2012


carl31 says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:19

Jabba is playing the strategic game … but it is a clear example of blatant strawclutchery.
=======================================================================

I note that Cosgrove managed to get in a mention for ‘whataboutery’ on Your Call on Saturday.

You mission Stuart, should you choose to accept it, is to get in ”strawclutchery next time you are on.

View Comment

expectinrainPosted on4:33 pm - Sep 17, 2012


The possibility of Hearts not paying some senior players, and easyJambo’s explanation of the money flows, reminds me that Hearts were the only other Scottish club (after Rangers) to make the top 30 or so of the UK and Ireland Football Financial Secrecy League.

eJ’s answer – and Jim Traynor’s piece, too, oddly – raises bigger questions, too. What kind of financial transparency do fans need, in order to make sure that their clubs are not being run into the ground? Or is it just the job of fans to watch and hope? If fans are not the ones to hold club owners accountable for how they manage what is a community asset (the club), then who will? Other teams? Football authorities? The (!) media?

Do we have answers to these questions? With the combined expertise (financial, legal, procedural etc) of contributors to this blog and RTC, could we come up with them?

View Comment

Fritz AgrandoldteamPosted on4:34 pm - Sep 17, 2012


miki67 says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:54

I think what’s happening is that the crooks running the SFA/SPL, having predicted armaggedon without their favourite team, are now hell-bent on making it happen.

View Comment

tearsofjoyPosted on4:34 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Tommy says:
September 17, 2012 at 14:24
(quote) “These two would have scrutinised one another’s annual accounts so if anything had been amiss with Rangers’ practice why wouldn’t Celtic have brought it to light?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And newspaper owners wonder why circulation numbers continue to plummet ?

Distortion/obfuscation/procrastination/denial/finger pointing.

Anything but the truth. Cos that hurts.

I hope Gym Trainer gets the you-know-what taken out of him the next time he goes on that phone-in show that we don’t listen to.

View Comment

ExiledCeltPosted on4:45 pm - Sep 17, 2012


I disagree that the SFA/SPL/SFL have been cowards – I think they have been complicit

Complicit with folks on high

How high that is we have not yet been able to show

But Armageddon and Social Unrest would seem to be somewhat politically orientated

Since FIFA and UEFA are not happy iwth Govt interference in football, our Govt has been careful

But make no mistake CG got lucky

He found himself helped – and he is using this to the max to use them as a punching bag to gather the wagons in a circle

They are ok wuth this – SR and ND would never strike me as people who would gamble with their jobs and make a stand

Unelss someone was covering their backs………..

Salmond

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2012/feb/16/alex-salmond-celtic-cannot-prosper-without-rangers-video

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2102102/Rangers-need-survive-Scottish-football-says-Alex-Salmond.html

View Comment

Doon the slopePosted on4:46 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Perhaps a redefinition of a word would help us be more accurate and indeed, understood:

‘Whataboutery’ – Protesting at hypocrisy; responding to criticism by accusing one’s opponent of similar faults or worse. (Wikidic.)

‘Whatabootery’ – Strawclutchery, accusations plucked from thin air, with no basis in truth and verging on the ridiculous.

View Comment

WOTTPIPosted on4:46 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Following Jabbas logic then surely the DR and Sunday Mail would have been the first to break the phone hacking scandal by News International publications. How the hell did the Guardian and others get there first?

View Comment

essexbeancounterPosted on4:47 pm - Sep 17, 2012


WOTTPI says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:30
1 0 i
Rate This

carl31 says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:19

Jabba is playing the strategic game … but it is a clear example of blatant strawclutchery.
=======================================================================

I note that Cosgrove managed to get in a mention for ‘whataboutery’ on Your Call on Saturday.

You mission Stuart, should you choose to accept it, is to get in ”strawclutchery next time you are on.

=========================================================================

WOTTPI…”….strawclutchery…”….candidate for “word of the week” on the blog…congratulations!

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on4:48 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Hearts have just released a statement re the late payment of a few players wages

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120917/players-wages-update_2241384_2921588

Of note is the last sentence:
We expect the mater to be resolved once we receive a guaranteed income expected in the very near future”

Methinks Vlad has just taken a rather strong swipe in the direction of the SPL

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on4:52 pm - Sep 17, 2012


STV reporting that Ticketus are about to launch court proceedings against Whyte.

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/190615-ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-faces-court-date-with-ticketus-over-27m-deal/

I’m not sure how that fits in with the suggested Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland transfer of assets.

Ticketus is expected to begin court proceedings in the coming weeks against former Rangers owner Craig Whyte over a £26.7m deal he used to fund his takeover.

The ticketing firm is pursuing Mr Whyte after he used future season ticket sales to wipe out the Ibrox club’s £18m debt to Lloyds Banking Group last May.

Ticketus, which is a subsidiary of Octopus Investments, is taking legal action against Mr Whyte after administrators Duff and Phelps failed to agree a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) with creditors in June.

It is unclear whether Ticketus will launch the action in Scottish or English courts, while most of Mr Whyte’s business interests are linked to the British Virgin Islands-registered firm, Liberty Capital Ltd, including Rangers FC Group, the company he used to buy Sir David Murray’s 85% stake for £1.

The civil action raised by the investment company is not likely to be heard until next year.

A spokesman for the firm said on Monday: “Ticketus is continuing to pursue, through the courts, the terms of the corporate and personal guarantees agreed with Craig Whyte at the time of the original contract between Ticketus and Rangers FC in May 2011.”

After being appointed in February, Duff and Phelps sought guidance from the Court of Session over the contract Mr Whyte had agreed with Ticketus to effectively fund his takeover of the Ibrox club.

Lord Hodge found that Ticketus did not, under Scots law, own future season ticket sales at Rangers as it had claimed. He established that the company owned “personal contractual rights” to around 100,000 season ticket sales in a deal that could be breached by administrators if it was deemed to be in the interests of the creditors overall.

In May, Duff and Phelps gave Ticketus formal notification that the deal was being terminated, which was not opposed by the London firm. As a result, the company was listed as a creditor worth £26.7m in the failed CVA, which consigned the ‘oldco’ Rangers to liquidation under the control of neutral insolvency firm BDO. Following the failure to strike a deal with creditors, the administrators sold the Charles Green-led Sevco consortium the club’s assets in a £5.5m deal that saw them transferred to a newco.

On Monday BDO — which will be put in place on the insistence of Rangers’ largest creditor, HM Revenue and Customs — said it did not have a date for its appointment confirmed yet.

In May, Ticketus announced that it had made demands for repayment from Mr Whyte and also from his wholly-owned company Liberty Capital.

Rangers were plunged into administration in February owing up to £134m, including £18.3m in unpaid VAT and PAYE during Mr Whyte’s nine-month reign at the club.

Previously, Mr Whyte said: “The only person at risk from the deal is me personally because I gave Ticketus personal and corporate guarantees underwriting their investment; the club and the fans are fully protected. In terms of exposure, I am personally on the line for £27.5m in guarantees and cash.”

View Comment

Jimmy Bones (@JimmyBo90672977)Posted on4:58 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
September 17, 2012 at 15:45

I only wish the MSM would engage a member of their respective business or city desks to make any related comments in this area…it would save a lot of embarrassment…but hey wait…no…!
______________________________________

I can only agree with that, but as the Herald journalist (Graeme MacPherson) himself said in a reply to one of my emails (posted 19th August ish) –

“I won’t disagree that the mainstream media’s coverage of the Rangers saga has not been all it could be – and that others have shone a greater light on events at times – but I would argue that that is largely down to a lack of human resources or a paucity of knowledge of certain complex financial matters rather than any deliberate attempt to pursue a pro-Rangers agenda.”

ASTOUNDING

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jockybhoyPosted on5:13 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Fritz Agrandoldteam says: September 17, 2012 at 16:34
having predicted armaggedon without their favourite team…

Anna Athletic Chairman Henry McClelland rubbished the predictions of Scottish football’s impending doom that accompanied votes on the destiny of the newco Rangers by writing ‘we are all loving Armageddon’ in his programme notes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2203743/Annan-0-Rangers-0-Templeton-injury-caps-miserable-day-Ally.html

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FIFAPosted on5:14 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Aye right you are Jabba ,the same way you would want someone else check over your expense account and comment to all and sundry ,how do you know CFC did not look into any other clubs accounts just to keep tabs ,its a lazy business that would not want to have a look at its competitors to see how they operate ,is that not the name of the game ,oh apologies you where probably meaning lennon and his backroom team looking at this instead of CFC finance people ,silly me,I will find out on Wednesday I have a meeting with Dobbin.

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StevieBCPosted on5:23 pm - Sep 17, 2012


The DR manipulating ‘readers’ Comments”.
==================================
I take more interest in the readers’ comments in the DR – especially since this facility was reactivated recently for Jabba’s articles.

But I have noticed again – this time with his article today – that the Comments would appear to be manipulated.

If you sort the article’s Comments by clicking on the ‘Most Popular’ option, you will see that of 200+ Comments so far, the ‘Most Popular Comment’ apparently is the once pasted below, which strongly supports Traynor and the article.

As a sample, the next top 9 Comments are consistently highly critcal of Traynor and his article.

I am not a statistics expert, but this looks highly dubious and a highly unlikely distribution of supposedly random, readers’ Comments and their ratings.
==============================================

“Tony Blair
9:01 AM on 17/9/2012

Well said Mr Traynor much clearer now i hope the Clown,s in charge of Scottish football drop their coloured blinker,s and see what the man on the street can see.”

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Jimmy Bones (@JimmyBo90672977)Posted on5:27 pm - Sep 17, 2012


I have sent the attached to Michael Grant at the Herald today –

Dear Mr Grant

Just a word of thanks for your article in today’s Herald – it is refreshing to see that the mainstream media can produce a sensible and valid critique of the nonsensical statements put out by Mr Green. I see that you stopped short of referring him to the SFA, again.

Over the piece, the mainstream media’s coverage of the Rangers saga has not been all it could be – and that others, notably on the internet, have shone a greater light on events at times. I am sure that is largely down to a lack of human resources and a paucity of knowledge, in the case of sports’ journalists, of certain complex financial matters rather than any deliberate attempt to pursue a pro-Rangers agenda. I would ask, however, that you bring further critical faculties to the story and engage members of your city and business desks when necessary to shine a proper light on the nefarious activities of our football clubs and their governing bodies.

Thanks & regards

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carl31Posted on5:28 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:47
0 0 i
Rate This
WOTTPI says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:30
1 0 i
Rate This

carl31 says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:19

Jabba is playing the strategic game … but it is a clear example of blatant strawclutchery.
=======================================================================

I note that Cosgrove managed to get in a mention for ‘whataboutery’ on Your Call on Saturday.

You mission Stuart, should you choose to accept it, is to get in ”strawclutchery next time you are on.

=========================================================================

WOTTPI…”….strawclutchery…”….candidate for “word of the week” on the blog…congratulations!

…I lay no claim to ‘strawclutchery’ – it came from elsewhere earlier on this blog, I think. However, I agree it is a prime candidate, indeed, for “word of the week”.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on5:29 pm - Sep 17, 2012


miki67 says:
September 17, 2012 at 13:54
30 1 Rate This
Why is the spl not paying the money it owes to club members? Then, perhaps clubs like Hearts which seem to be surviving on a hand-to-hand, month to month basis would be ticking along in a slightly less edge of the cliff manner.
==============

Maybe the SFA are guarantors for Charlies £5.5 mill loan?

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Alex CoxPosted on5:31 pm - Sep 17, 2012


StevieBC says:
September 17, 2012 at 17:23

“Tony Blair
9:01 AM on 17/9/2012

Well said Mr Traynor much clearer now i hope the Clown,s in charge of Scottish football drop their coloured blinker,s and see what the man on the street can see.”

===============================

Speaking as the man in the street I agree with this, let’s get rid of the blinkers and treat The Rangers the same way everyone else is treated.

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timtimPosted on5:37 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Lord Hodge found that Ticketus did not, under Scots law, own future season ticket sales at Rangers as it had claimed. He established that the company owned “personal contractual rights” to around 100,000 season ticket sales in a deal that could be breached by administrators if it was deemed to be in the interests of the creditors overall.

As a result, the company was listed as a creditor worth £26.7m in the failed CVA, which consigned the ‘oldco’ Rangers to liquidation under the control of neutral insolvency firm BDO.

So ,the question is was it in the interests of the creditors to have an extra £26.7m of debt added to the creditors pile thus diluting the pence in the £ pay out to those creditors had a CVA been possible . Could the extra £26.7m of creditor debt been primarily responsible for a no vote to the CVA ? In no way was breaching the Ticketus deal in the interests of creditors
therefore Nuff’n’Helps cannot justify breaching the ticketus deal .

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Ordinary FanPosted on5:39 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Jabba should be ashamed of himself. Sad man.

View Comment

WOTTPIPosted on5:44 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:47

Not as quick a Carl 31 but as he says it wasn’t his, nor was it mine.
A bit of looking back is required to see who dererves to claim the copyright.

View Comment

nowoldandgrumpyPosted on5:50 pm - Sep 17, 2012


Humble Pie says:
September 17, 2012 at 15:36

Great post.

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WOTTPIPosted on5:58 pm - Sep 17, 2012


[SFM Edit:] ally needs to be careful with his words in case he offends the growling bears.

“I’m certain that the results away from home will come but it’s not going to be an overnight fix. We are a new team, a younger team, and it will take a little bit of time.”

Thats right, brand new and a few months young 😉

View Comment

youtawknabootPosted on6:04 pm - Sep 17, 2012


carl31 says:
September 17, 2012 at 17:28

Essex beancounter says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:47
0 0 i
Rate This
WOTTPI says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:30
1 0 i
Rate This

carl31 says:
September 17, 2012 at 16:19

Jabba is playing the strategic game … but it is a clear example of blatant strawclutchery.
=======================================================================

I note that Cosgrove managed to get in a mention for ‘whataboutery’ on Your Call on Saturday.

You mission Stuart, should you choose to accept it, is to get in ”strawclutchery next time you are on.

=========================================================================

WOTTPI…”….strawclutchery…”….candidate for “word of the week” on the blog…congratulations!

…I lay no claim to ‘strawclutchery’ – it came from elsewhere earlier on this blog, I think. However, I agree it is a prime candidate, indeed, for “word of the week”.
=========================================================================

Jabba(The Slug) is most serpently another contender from the stable of countless MSM Bletherweight Champions…
His blatant strawclutchery (c acknowledged) coupled with heavy doses of whataboutery,
(c acknowledged) is hilariously & repeatedly spewed forth with total & unashamed bawbaggery.

al get me RanchoFranco instruction manual 🙂

View Comment

BlindsummitPosted on6:04 pm - Sep 17, 2012


The suggestion that Celtic (or any other club) should be responsible for scrutinizing the accounts of Rangers (or any other club) is one of the most risible and infantile pieces of flimflammery yet from Jabba.

And I say that as a Hibs fan, with no love lost in the past for Celtic. Since Rangers’ nefarious deeds have become exposed though, I have warmed much more to Celtic and their fans represented on here and RTC previously. I once saw Celtic as just the other side of the coin from Rangers, but I was wrong and am happy to admit it. They have carried out their business honestly and within the rules unlike Rangers (and now their tribute club successors Sevco).

I have followed with great interest the debate amongs the esteemed contributors of this site of a Celtic persuasion, about whether their club should be speaking out on Sevco, or whether their silence is a correct.

My opinion is that they are almost certainly correct to hold their counsel. It’s not their job, as just one of many clubs, to lead the others in a moral charge against Sevco. Equally, it would be unfair to single Celtic out for blame for Sevco’s continued survival and the corruption in the SFA and SPL that enables it. I believe that all SPL clubs share that ignominy, my own included. they ALL are silently supporting what’s going on.

So, quite frankly it’s not Celtic’s job to “lead” Scottish football and they would be damned by many if they did try. We are all supposed to be “equals”. (except Sevco obviously, who are not bound by the same rules as us mere mortals).

But where I think Celtic should be speaking out is when they have been specifically wronged or targetted by Sevco. For me this includes one specific example.

1. If Celtic have not yet been paid footballing debts owed to them by Sevco/old Rangers then I believe they should make that public as Dundee united have.

i’d love to know the truth there.

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justafanPosted on6:05 pm - Sep 17, 2012


@Brenda, I apologise, I was in a hurry, and did not read it back, but trolling, really? For being sarcastic? Hardly! Just looked there,you got me what a numpty I am.

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Comments are closed.