Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?

Avatar ByElijah Baley

Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?

Charles Green has declared war on the Scottish football authorities. His statement and that of Duff and Phelps today deserve detailed analysis, which is ongoing at McConville Towers as we speak, and will be concluded as soon as Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and Peter Lawwell tell me what to write.

For now, I wanted to speculate if Mr Green had managed to forget the terms of the SFA Rules, under which Rangers FC was censured for his comments some time ago. Mr Green could well have forgotten, as the censure took place as long as eleven days ago.

The relevant rules are as follows:

Rule 1: All member clubs shall:
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play;
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect of the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.

Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Officials and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.

Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.

Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.

Now let’s see where Mr Green might, through inadvertence, have sinned against those rules, accidentally of course. The following are extracted from his statement on the official Rangers FC website.

“Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.

“Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff. I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.

“Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission?  Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all?  No. They did absolutely nothing.

“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us – as the new owners – took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.

“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.

“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.

“I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.

“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.

“The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.

“Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?

“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.

“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.

“It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.

“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.

“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.”

——————————————————

Have a read through these edited highlights once again…

The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening … the Commission is not independent of the SPL … They (the SPL) did absolutely nothing … the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga … a full blown inquisition … it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position … we believe the SPL have been hypocritical … There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible … It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions … Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.

——————————————————

Mr Green has issued a lengthy statement, as can be seen from the fact that what is shown above is only an extract from it. It is on the official Rangers website, and is stated to be by “Rangers Football Club”.

If this is not a declaration of war on the SPL and by extension the footballing authorities in Scotland, I don’t know what is.

I spoke to a friend who compared some of Mr Green’s recent statements to what has become known as “dog whistle politics”. There is little of the dog-whistle about this – instead it is a clear rallying cry to the loyal support of Rangers, which will, I am sure ensure that the turnstiles keep clicking at Ibrox for some time yet.

As of a few minutes ago the respective posts regarding the statement on two of the main Rangers FC fan sites showed a total of 867 posts and over 26,000 views. Not bad for a statement issued two hours ago!

I also suspect that the reaction there will be 100% positive.

Deciding that they are refusing to play and denouncing the process before the first hearing takes place is an interesting tactic. Now, if the Commission proceeds, in the absence of both oldco Rangers and newco Rangers and delivers a damning judgement, it will be ignored, it appears, by Mr Green and his company. And, if action is taken, then they propose to invoke the aid of the courts to stop disciplinary action happening.

What strikes me is that, once again, Mr Green is playing a masterful hand. He is a king of diversion. When the transfer of the SFA membership took place Mr Green said:-

“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs.  As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”

What he has managed to do is to build the impression that the one penalty, above all others, which newco will not accept, being the most horrendous possible, is the stripping of titles. Not being barred for all time from, membership of the SPL; not being suspended for a longer period than the next three years; not the imposition of further financial penalties…

No, the one penalty to be fought against, above all others, is one which will cost newco not a penny, and will in fact generate more support from the fans.

As I said, it is brilliant!

He has challenged the football authorities to take action, as indeed he promised he would. So much gratitude for the three ruling bodies pledging to “facilitate” Rangers entry to SFL3!

And as far as his attack on some, but not all, SPL teams, one wonders why he felt constrained from telling us who they were. After all, Ibrox is the home of clarity, transparency and free speech!

However the extracts above indicate numerous ways in which the rules quoted at the top of this piece are broken. Will the SFA have the courage of its convictions to take action? Will the SFL take any steps itself?

Or has Mr Green stared them down, and, as long as the share flotation comes along in the near future, enraptured the fans into subscribing in their thousands?

As has been the case ever since RTC started, this piece could end with the line:- we have no idea what will happen next; we will have to wait and see!

Posted by Paul McConville

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1,814 Comments so far

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redlichtiePosted on4:27 pm - Sep 13, 2012


iki says:
September 13, 2012 at 14:56
Mikec says:
September 13, 2012 at 14:20
NTHM
Whereabouts is Watersjtones in Argyle Street ?
Looking for another copy
—–
20yards from Celtic shop.
———————————————————————–

Don’t tell RM! This is doubtless another conspiracy!

/ Red Lichtie

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john clarkePosted on4:39 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:53
‘Posmill….”…gotten….”…has the transatlantic influence taken over entirely…?’
—–

Yes, Eb, it used to irritate the hell out of me ( like ‘dove’ as in ‘he dove in the water’) until I discovered that those versions of the past participle were fairly standard usage in the English spoken by the Pilgrim Fathers, and taken to America, and fossilised.( We still have words such as ‘forgotten’ and ‘begotten’).

Much more irritating is that rising inflection at the end of a sentence that turns a simple statement into a question?

I’m not sure whether that’s of Australian origin, but I detest it, and would not allow even my servants to use it!

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WOTTPIPosted on5:04 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Just catching up.

Re the Barrie McKay story – is the interesting point not about who reminded everyone about the 3 year rule?

Was it the MSM that broke this story and forced Rangers to clarify in an official statment or was it the poster on TSFM (Sorry don’t have time to look back and acknowledge the credit) that highlighted the need to adhere to the rules that started the chain of events off.

I know who my money is on.

My guess is that some people are quietly keeping an eye on us bampots.

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essexbeancounterPosted on5:13 pm - Sep 13, 2012


john clarke says:
September 13, 2012 at 16:39
4 0 i
Rate This

Essex beancounter says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:53
‘Posmill….”…gotten….”…has the transatlantic influence taken over entirely…?’
—–

Yes, Eb, it used to irritate the hell out of me ( like ‘dove’ as in ‘he dove in the water’) until I discovered that those versions of the past participle were fairly standard usage in the English spoken by the Pilgrim Fathers, and taken to America, and fossilised.( We still have words such as ‘forgotten’ and ‘begotten’).

Much more irritating is that rising inflection at the end of a sentence that turns a simple statement into a question?

I’m not sure whether that’s of Australian origin, but I detest it, and would not allow even my servants to use it!

=====================================================================

JC…the “Scribe” of the blog strikes again…still displaying your Rigby Street roots John…LOL!

The Australian comment is as always, spot on…I have an Australian client’s FD who. hailing from Sydney, illuistrates the dreaded inflection perfectly, especially after copious amounts of Wolf Blass…!

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Galling fiverPosted on5:47 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Was Juninho’s EBT registered at the SFA?

Was it legit since he was not in the country more than 1/2 the year he had it, or becuase he qualified to have it for any other reason, even if it was because he was like that other Brazilian…..sh1te?

Was it legit since the tax was paid?

Why is there no case to answer?

It is obviously going to be the yardstick for the OldBears investigation.
If CFC did’nt register it, then the 0;3 defeat for each game should be applied etc. I would hate to think that admonishing the one other case that has come to light, was only done to admonish the OldGers and their full teams of them. I’m concerned as to why there is no detail in reaching the Juninho verdict.

Can someone put my mind at rest in this matter, because I do find it quite odd.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on5:59 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Galling fiver says:
September 13, 2012 at 17:47

———————–

all quite simple and above board…..

Juninho signed in August 2004
contract registered with SFA and paid in accordance with that – tax paid, payslips issued etc
he didn’t play much and after 14 games he went back to brazil “by mutual consent” in April 2005
he was entitled to a pay off for the remainder of his contract
that was paid to him via an ebt – after he left celtic
in 2008 when HMRC started sniffing around about EBTs Brian Quinn – celtic chairman – declared teh EBT and paid the tax on it

case closed

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StarofdavidPosted on6:01 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Galling fiver:

Why don’t you GIVE your brain a rest – its patently stopped working.

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easyJamboPosted on6:03 pm - Sep 13, 2012


An excellent piece once again from Alex Thomson

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/british-disease/2671

Although it resulted from the release of the Hillsborough documents, the message could equally be applied to Scottish Football and it’s governace over decades.

A British disease?

What is it with Britain? Because whatever else went wrong at the Leppings Lane tunnel, it points yet again to a dispiriting and deeply corrosive British disease.

I don’t see many today even trying to diagnose it – let alone grope towards a cure. Yet, the pathology is clear for all to see. The symptoms occur over and over again whenever there is a major incident in the UK involving the safety of individuals.

First, the disaster or incident: The Marchioness, Jean-Charles de Menezes, Ian Tomlinson, the Mull of Kintyre, Bloody Sunday…

Depressingly reader, you will be able to add your own to this list. Now consider the pathology and symptoms which will occur in Britain again and again and again.

In some cases we have seen the police or military cover up, bury the truth, blame the victims who unable to answer because they are dead: Bloody Sunday, Mull of Kintyre and now Hillsborough.

Then they will co-opt sympathetic media – tabloid newspapers in particular, to put out the lie. Are you listening Lord Leveson?

So the lie becomes the story “the truth” as Kelvin Mackenzie insisted. The scene is set. The public have the message and critically so do the politicians – note Jack Straw’s apology today.

The next symptom – public and politicians now prepared – will be for a limited and flawed judicial inquiry, inquest, investigation which one way or another will deliver the verdict, the least damaging to those with powerful careers at stake.

Thus Lord Widgery’s inquiry (which Ted Heath publicly stated should be “limited”) whitewashed Bloody Sunday. The RAF Board of Inquiry into the Mull crash was simply over-ruled by two Air Chief Marshalls who blamed the victims – the dead pilots, incapable of defending themselves.

Move on and we have the Hillsborough coroner deciding nobody after 3.15 could be alive.

Victims, ordinary people, blamed by police, judiciary and senior military – agencies designed to protect the powerless from injustice – not to inflict further pain and injury upon their names and their relatives.

To the next symptom. Unfortunately for the state, however apparently powerless, the victims’ families won’t lie down and they begin the long, long years in the wilderness, demanding justice.

Eventually sympathetic MPs and media (not media with close ties to the police we note) take up the cause and the search for truth.

To the next stage of the British disease: there will finally be a real investigation at enormous public expense which will likely get at the truth of what happened.

Final stage and symptom: apology.

True – in some disputed tragedies it does not always happen quite like this – but there is a real pattern here nonetheless which should make us look well beyond Hillsborough.

Why do key institutions of state – police, military and legal – so often cover-up the truth and blame the victims?

The simple answer appears to be to protect the careers and livelihoods of those running those institutions.

A generation on when the truth is finally delivered, it is probably too late for justice – they have got away with it.

In short, when the heat’s on, the disaster’s recent, the record shows that the British state cannot be relied upon to do its job – protect and provide justice for the victims and their families.

There is indeed a sickness. To cure it we as a nation have to raise our gaze beyond the Bogside, Leppings Lane tunnel and the Mull of Kintyre lighthouse.

There’s something a lot bigger that is wrong. When a state turns to protect those in power instead of the powerless in their time of greatest need, we are truly sick.

I’ll highlight one secition

Why do key institutions of state – police, military and legal – so often cover-up the truth and blame the victims?

The simple answer appears to be to protect the careers and livelihoods of those running those institutions.

Substitute “institutions of state ……..” with “institutions of state and football – police, legal, insolvency services, HMRC, Westminster, Holyrood, SFA, SPL” and you have the RFC saga.

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stmileyPosted on6:04 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Juninho EBT used to pay off remainder of contract – NOT a side letter or 2nd contract, NOT extra monies outside of contract registered with SFA. One payment made, he played no games after this payment. As this was contractual, it fell foul of EBT rules, and Celtic were served an assessment which they duly paid, it did NOT, as confirmed by SPL, breach registration rules.

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Galling fiverPosted on6:04 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Contract registered was what I wanted to here, thank you very much. Just did’nt like the way he was up first.

NTHM ta much, had a chat with a semi clued up bear and he almost had me thinking about another carve up, forgot it’s not us thats para now.

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ollielogiePosted on6:05 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Galling Fiver:

This was done to death on RTC – sure posts will still be there. SPL have now confirmed that info they had on the players income matched the actualite, EBT or no EBT. That Celtic also paid the tax due is a separate issue (but this taxpayer welcomes it!)

No to Whataboutery….. 🙂

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MikeCPosted on6:09 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Not sure why the Juninho’s situation “there is no case to answer” verdict, however a couple of points

(1) the current investigate by the SPL into the Rangers situation is in regards to the existence of TWO contracts and not the EBT per sa. EBTs have got nothing to do with the SPL as such, it is a HMRC issue. EBTs are not illegal if used correctly – problem is that Rangers appear to not have done so ergo The Big Tax Case

(2) the EBT paid by Celtic to Juninho was subject to (and has been paid) tax. Therefore no HMRC outstanding issue.

However the contractual situation needs to be understood.

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Galling fiverPosted on6:09 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Keyboard hard men everywhere. AT raised the question yesterday, I never seen it answered. Never seen the registered bit on the BBC text, only legality.

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ekt1m

ekt1mPosted on6:12 pm - Sep 13, 2012


WOTTPI, Credit to Smallteaser on Sept 11th at 19.58pm. on spotting the rule on 17yrs signing 3 yr contracts.

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MikeCPosted on6:16 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Thanks to Logie and the rest of you now understand the Juninho contractual situation. It’s a shame that I did not hold on for a few minutes before my post

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whispererPosted on6:16 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Ok Ok Ok … Off topic ah know … But just had a wee peep at BBC page Div3 ….. And after 4 games …. 1st Peterhead on 10 … Clyde on 9 …. Sevco on 8 ….. QP on 7 …. Looks like a tight race doon there !

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posmill

posmillPosted on6:32 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:53

thank you essex, but if this was school I would have gotten marks off for the misplaced apostrophe in “innuendo’s” (sic)

======================================================================

Posmill….”…gotten….”…has the transatlantic influence taken over entirely…?

You naughty boy….!

PS…have you read …”Eats Shoots and Leaves…”…?

Nah…let us leave it there….LOL!

=======================
Gott in himmel! Wasn’t even aware that’s an Americanism. I’ve been here so long I can’t tell the difference with certain vocabulary. (Still got the accent though ;-))

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on6:50 pm - Sep 13, 2012


EKtim says:
September 13, 2012 at 18:12

WOTTPI, Credit to Smallteaser on Sept 11th at 19.58pm. on spotting the rule on 17yrs signing 3 yr contracts.
==========

I’ll second that !

But you would think that the supposedly ‘upstanding’ BBC would acknowledge their source though ?

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redlichtiePosted on6:54 pm - Sep 13, 2012


The Whisperer says:
September 13, 2012 at 18:16
Ok Ok Ok … Off topic ah know … But just had a wee peep at BBC page Div3 ….. And after 4 games …. 1st Peterhead on 10 … Clyde on 9 …. Sevco on 8 ….. QP on 7 …. Looks like a tight race doon there !

———————————————————————————————–

You do know that it’s actually Division 4 down there? 🙂

/ Red Lichtie

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Galling fiverPosted on6:54 pm - Sep 13, 2012


MikeC, thanks.
RTC posts I read, said that he arrived from Middlesborough with one. Totally missed it being all wrapped up in one contract.

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SpecialsWonPosted on7:19 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Galling fiver

Yes that’s right he did. However I understand that Celtic didn’t use this to pay sums additional to his wages or bonuses. Instead after he left he asked for the balance of his contract be paid into this EBT that he’d arrived with from ‘Boro.

Can you see the difference? As he left Celtic money was paid into it, his wages and bonuses that were contractually obligated and had been disclosed to the SFA, nothing else.

Contrast this to RFC where the SFA got told one thing while the player got his SFA declared wages AND a payment into his EBT, neatly avoiding tax on the latter amount.

In fact if you want an example of the striking difference look no further than Mr Ogilvie. He advised us all via the MSM that his £90k severance payment was paid into his EBT. By contrast Celtic appear to have paid the tax/NIC due on the Juninho money, whereas Murray thought of it like a tax-free bank account.

And if Murray didn’t think an EBT was a tax-free bank account the President of the SFA was granted a £90k loan by Rangers (even though he himself said it was part of his severance and therefore not a loan).

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BlindsummitPosted on7:25 pm - Sep 13, 2012


john clarke says:

Yes, Eb, it used to irritate the hell out of me ( like ‘dove’ as in ‘he dove in the water’) until I discovered that those versions of the past participle were fairly standard usage in the English spoken by the Pilgrim Fathers, and taken to America, and fossilised.( We still have words such as ‘forgotten’ and ‘begotten’).

Much more irritating is that rising inflection at the end of a sentence that turns a simple statement into a question?

I’m not sure whether that’s of Australian origin, but I detest it, and would not allow even my servants to use it!
___________________________________________________________
Apologies for going OT, but Bill Bryson’s Made In America is an entertaining read on the development (or not indeed) of the English language in America. It surprised me to learn that in many ways English in America more closely reflects the old English of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries than UK speech.

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Galling fiverPosted on7:27 pm - Sep 13, 2012


specialsWon, thanks. It’s the duality that caused the whatabootery debate I had earlier today.

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AngusPosted on7:40 pm - Sep 13, 2012


john clarke says:
September 13, 2012 at 16:39

Yes, Eb, it used to irritate the hell out of me ( like ‘dove’ as in ‘he dove in the water’) until I discovered that those versions of the past participle were fairly standard usage …
—-

My little brother (actually much fatter and way balder than me) used to get on his high horse about “gotten” and, in particular, “kids” as Americanisms … “I haven’t gotten kids, I have children. I’m not American.”

What sibling-baiting joy was had when i pointed out to him that both words were in common English usage long before the Americans stopped evolution in its tracks. 🙂

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joe millers shortsPosted on7:44 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:37

That interview was nearly 30 years ago,the manager,Andy Roxburgh,who was values highly enough by UEFA to be in charge of their technical team.
30 years later,we’re still advocating the same things,and nothings happening.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some things have happened but not enough.

Our youth football still prizes results ahead of everything. Often BIG and FAST kids are selected ahead of technically skilled kids.
We start playing 11’s too young (under 13’s) we should play 7’s for longer, this way kids would get really good at passing before they move up to big pitches and big goals. This would reduce the desire to pick big kids.

Our pro-youth system is flawed in that it stops kids playing football, they must “sign” for a club and give up their boys club. This can mean that our best kids are often only training twice a week with one game at the weekend. Kids want and need to play every single day.

On the up side we are rearing a generation of kids who play on astro turf, this is MUCH better than grass for developing skill, also most kids and coaches want to play like Barca and not like the rubbish we see in the SPL.

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FIFAPosted on7:49 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Going by post,s over the last few hours we need a little project to keep the interest up over the next while ,anyone with anything to liven the debate,for instance will Mr Martin be looking for a new job shortly ,will he get the backing of the CEO at Sevco ,do we have another Falkirk ,where will this end [in tears] no one dare speak out .

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on7:58 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Regarding the PR spin and propaganda where the MSM would have people believe that once RFC(Ia) are liquidated, that the history of REF 1872 will survive.

I was thinking who would pay a PR agency to present and reinforce that message with the media and why?

The only conclusion that I can reach is if the ‘hard core’ rangers fans feel that their history is intact, then they are less likely to vent their anger on those who have brought about the downfall of the club.

I would love to know who is paying the invoices for media house.

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EKBhoyPosted on8:11 pm - Sep 13, 2012


The onslaught by Green re the titles helps to sell season tickets / shares.

The onslaught by Green on we are not turning up strategy to the Dual Contracts panel is more interesting. Having signed an agreement to take responsibility for the old Rangers football debts and o/s punishments , seems to me that slowing he is chipping away at that agreement.

There will be shortly another onslaught on the legality of this agreement and that in fact it is / was illegal / invalid.

The next MSM onslaught , illegal agreement and the actions of one man, not MBB this time SDM.

All predictable nonsense.

Outcome will be : all previous dire tots done die; rival of titles and then cups; and massive fine equal to SPL payments , which will be imposed on New Rangers, if they do. Lot pay then penalty points fine for the next 12 years, let’s say 20 per season.

They will still be in business but busted.

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EKBhoyPosted on8:14 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Apologies worst iPhone post ever, hit the post key by accident. Flight calling

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on8:31 pm - Sep 13, 2012


FIFA says:
September 13, 2012 at 19:49
1 0 Rate This
Going by post,s over the last few hours we need a little project to keep the interest up over the next while
++++++++++++++

Your question has been answered. The second part of Ecojon’s post on Pauls Blog.

Paul McConville ‏@Paulmcc12
COULD CHARLIE GREEN’S RANGERS FLOAT TURN INTO A LEAD LIFEBELT? by Ecojon http://wp.me/p1Adbc-y8
Retweeted by Andy M @ Scotzine

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Para Handy

Para HandyPosted on8:33 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 12, 2012 at 08:01
 59 0 Rate This
Goosy says:

September 12, 2012 at 00:35(Edit)

Goosy

whilst I agree with the principle that there are Directors who rule the roost and there are Directors who are mere nodding dogs– especially in large PLC’s—- in law they share the same duties and responsibilities.

Rangers PLC was not a mega company either in terms of turnover or in terms of structure. It had a relatively small board and management structure and it was overloaded with people who knew the business rules and where to look for Directors failings.

Odam. Dickson, P Murray, D Murray, King, Muir, McLelland, Johnston, Ogilvie and Bain— these are all people with business and professional backgrounds– not ex players and mere titular figures.

The Board minutes alone will make for very interesting reading.
———————

With due respect BRTH, as i believe we both have personal knowledge of working at board level in and out of football, I would like to make a some points.

There are countless examples of apparently sane, successful business people who get involved in football and as they walk through the doors of the ground, act as if they know less about running a business than my dog (which may be doing Mungan a disservice as he does understand supply and demand. He demands, I supply. But I digress).

Governance is normally not something that even “mega” companies have done well when not required. I would posit that the majority of the directors to be found in Scottish football board rooms, come from small companies where governance is a bad word, mentioned only when the auditors come calling.

“Mega” businesses(outside of football) have far less incompetent board members because when things go wrong, the “mega” business has its board replaced, or at least it’s chair or CEO. In football the board sacks the manager…

Finally, as any company secretary worth their salt will tell you, board minutes make for very, very, very, veeerrrreeeyyy……..zzzzzzzzzzzz

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jonnyodPosted on8:35 pm - Sep 13, 2012


why did Uefa give the 250,000 payment for ragers players involvement in the Euro’s to D&P and not CG ,surely if 2012 fc are the same club as ragers (IA ) then Charlie would be screaming for his money .
I have not heard a word from him , maybe I missed it though ,then again maybe Uefa do not have to pander to the delusional

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BoosterPosted on8:41 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Angus says:
September 13, 2012 at 19:40

Going miles OT but I have read somewhere that Shakespeare on stage is better with American actors (presumably the southern states rather than from NYC) as the English is a lot closer.

Always good to point out in the USA that they are still living in the past.

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on8:42 pm - Sep 13, 2012


A Expert says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:52

Rate This

Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:37

That interview was nearly 30 years ago,the manager,Andy Roxburgh,who was values highly enough by UEFA to be in charge of their technical team.
30 years later,we’re still advocating the same things,and nothings happening.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Face it – we are keech
———————————————————————————————————————
Agreed,
You’ll start an arguement anyway.
How do you spell Keach?.

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It’sagoal!Posted on8:45 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Can any St Johnstone fans confirm on here they are giving Celtic more away tickets than normal this Sat – as I understand Celtic are getting the North and East stands?

This seems very sensible business practice, just as Kilmarnock occasionally do.

Which brings me to asking will Motherwell do the same for the Celtic game on Sept 29th? the reason I ask is that this seems to me to be the first Celtic away league game in the last decade that is not on any tv channel and is a normal 3pm game. Surely if Motherwell get the ticketing right for both sets of fans this could be a sell-out?

the more fans in games the further away Armageddon sails…..

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FIFAPosted on8:54 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Paul Mc
Interesting,I wonder how much Charlie has extracted from Sevco by now ,surely someone must have access to cash flow out of the company ,does anyone know who these people are ,we should be told .

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john clarkePosted on9:03 pm - Sep 13, 2012


It’sagoal! says:
September 13, 2012 at 20:45

“ST JOHNSTONE V CELTIC – SATURDAY 15TH SEPTEMBER 2012 – KICK OFF 12.30PM
The general sale of tickets to BOTH sets of supporters for Saturday’s match at home to Celtic (kick off 12.30pm) continues from the McDiarmid Park Ticket Office.

CELTIC SUPPORT
East Stand – a small number of ‘Adult and Child’ package tickets remain available priced at £20. This ticket entitles one adult to enter the stadium with one child aged 12 or under.
All other East Stand tickets are sold out.

North Stand – tickets are available for this stand priced as follows: Adult – £26; Concessions (Over 65s and Under 18s) – £13 “

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pau1888Posted on9:05 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Rangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase

Media speculation on date for FTT findings in RFC tax case- those saying release after late September may well be proven correct.

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on9:05 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Partick Dad says:
September 13, 2012 at 19:44
————————————————————————————————————————
Do you know what’s good about this,and the other posts wrt Scottish Football,coaching,future plans etc?.
Okay,I’ll tell you(or youse for anyone in Glasgow 😆 ).
Every so often,well minded people come on here and post that this is nothing but an anti Rangers site.
“What do you want to talk about is the standard reply.”.
If you have something that you think should be debated then post it.If anyone wants to join in.I’m sure they will.
I posted this to Angus,asking him to give the blog a chance.The posters in here are OK.Glad to see that Angus is still with us.
Probably a long way for a shortcut but with all that’s going on at RFC,etc,a lot of this blog has still, over the past few days has been taken up by discussions on the future,coaching,managing,administration etc of Scottish football.
This is what TSFM is all about.If you have something you want to talk about and are willing to put your point forward in a fair and honest manner,then the folk on here will listen.
That’s it.

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john clarkePosted on9:06 pm - Sep 13, 2012


In an idle moment, but reflecting on D&P, does anyone know whether they are physically located at Ibrox during the working day, or are they in some other office?

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BrendaPosted on9:10 pm - Sep 13, 2012


They’re in the ‘trophy’ room!!! Along with bomber brown, , lord Lucan, sandy jardine, shergar and the 2nd contracts 🙂

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on9:17 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Oh My God!!! I’ve just come on and there are ‘666’ comments is this an omen?

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BrendaPosted on9:21 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Haha ye and I was 666th ……. Husband agrees wholeheartedly 🙂

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on9:21 pm - Sep 13, 2012


FIFA says:
September 13, 2012 at 19:49

Rate This

Going by post,s over the last few hours we need a little project to keep the interest up over the next while ,anyone with anything to liven the debate,for instance will Mr Martin be looking for a new job shortly ,will he get the backing of the CEO at Sevco ,do we have another Falkirk ,where will this end [in tears] no one dare speak out .
===========================================================================
Can I suggest we play a game.

A couple of weeks ago,CW tried to dissolve Wavetower(TRFCG ltd).Someone blocked this.
On Monday,I think,Goosy revealed that another company involved in this charade applied for insolvency and this was also blocked.
Goosy intimated that,in his experience,although almost anyone,creditors etc can block liquidations,when a pattern like this appears it’s normally an action by the authorities,but may not be so.

Goosy is not swearing this info is 100% correct,just what he’s heard.I don’t think he’d post if he wasn’t reasonably confident of his source.
So the game is:
Guess the name of the second company that’s been blocked from going into liquidation and where does it fit in to the timeline?..
I don’t know.
Goosy,you could probably win this 😉

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john clarkePosted on9:28 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:05
”…Do you know what’s good about this,and the other posts wrt Scottish Football,coaching,future plans etc?.”
——-
You’re perfectly correct.( And one reason why I’m not too keen on the blog splitting into threads is the pleasure I get from the whole mix and flow of conversation and discussion that the present format allows, like being in the pub with a lot of interesting people)

Most of us enjoy reading about football, and talking about it , and listening to other people talk about it.

I’ve enjoyed the recent posts, both in themselves and as a break from the ‘saga’.

I was prompted to go into the SFA website to see what is said about their attitude to the training of coaches/ managers, or see something of what’s in the coaching-course curriculum.

Didn’t see anything other than the self-praise about how good their coaching ( presumably the coaching of players, not managers) is!

There must be something, because it takes time to get a coaching certificate.
Anybody got any detail?

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broganrogantrevinoandhoganPosted on9:34 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Good Evening,

I think tonight of an image and an emotion that has stayed with me for over 21 years.

I make no apology for being what is often described as a ” people person”. I like people. I find different individuals interesting and am often left in awe at what some “ordinary” and “unknown” people do with their time. I like meeting new people and hearing of their experiences and talents.

I love to hear of people doing well, achieving things and generally making a right good fist of life and family.

The flip side of that is that I can’t help feel a sympathy and an empathy with people who are going through a hard time for whatever reason, especially when their troubles are the kind of troubles that I cannot come close to imagining.

So back to the image in my head. It is February 1991 and my television is filled with the drawn, gaunt and haunted face of Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish, who is explaining why he has decided to resign as manager of Liverpool Football Club.

His team are top of the league and it is only two days after the famous 4-4 draw with neighbours Everton in the FA cup. Liverpool are chasing their 4th title in 6 years. In Football terms, Dalglish is a Merseyside God. In personal terms, he is burnt out and a mere shadow of the man that so often boasted a huge wide smile when scoring a goal.

Kenny explains that for the first time, he has had to make a decision which puts Kenny Dalglish and the Dalglish family before club…. and before football. He is clearly in trouble.

To this day, the overwhelming emotion that runs through me when I think of that image is…. Pride.

I was SO proud of Kenny Dalglish that night. He bared his soul, spoke with honesty and honour, revealed his pain, his failings and his difficulties… and made it obvious to all that his anguish and stress had had a knock on effect on his wife and family that he “didn’y like”… and so it was time to walk away from a club and a game that he loved dearly.

It was a dignified, honourable and brave decision and performance.

The reason for Dalglish’s dramatic and unexpected action can be summed up in one word.

Hillsborough.

Kenny Dalglish was the manager of the Liverpool team that tragic day– but he was the leader of a community- possibly a whole city and beyond in the days after.

A motion was placed before Parliament suggesting that he be knighted for his services to football way back then– and the services concerned were his playing skills, his management, and his immense presence off the field in those dark days. Had he and the club really lobbied to have the motion passed then I have no doubt that the king would have become a knight.

He went to funeral after funeral– famously going to 4 services in the one day– and took on an emotional routine and committment that could not have failed to have a long lasting effect on the most hardened of men.

It is for that reason– as well as his playing skills– that Kenny Dalglish will always be ” King Kenny” on Mersyside– and no football results or unsuccessful transfers will ever chnge that.

Yet Dalglish’s anguish and stress compares as nothing to what was suffered by the families and friends of the dead, and the survivors who managed to scramble out only to leave friends and relatives behind. That anguish was made all the greater when both the dead and the living were publicly demonised and unjustly damned for being the drunken and unruly cause of so many deaths.

Now, 23 years on we discover that not only was that demonisation unjust, but that there was a considered, deliberate, and specific plan on the part of officers of the South Yorkshire Police force to falsify evidence, doctor documents, alter statements and commit perjury– all in an attempt to villify the dead and the innocent— for their own self interest.

Think on this for a moment.

31 of those who ultimately died could in fact have been saved… and could be alive today. In each and every one of those cases the coroners report was hopelessly and factually wrong.

Virtually all of the evidence given by the police to– and therefore many of the conclusions made by—- the Taylor enquiry– lacks accuracy and foundation and so cannot be relied upon.

The Police force deliberately and calculatedly fed false evidence and downright lies to the Sun Newspaper.. and so used that newspaper for the purpose of propogating not just a spin on events, but a wholly false story designed to cover up their own failings and misdemeanors, and to wholly mislead the public at large.

Further, the Football authorities, swallowed those lies line hook line and sinker with the result that the then supremo ( Graham Kelly ) amplified and broadcast the same story– and others like Boris Johnson- as editor of the spectator– were able to repeat the calimony as if it were absolute fact several years later.

ALL SHOULD APOLOGISE WHOLEHEARTEDLY FOR GETTING THINGS SO WRONG.

The lies and the cover up engineered by the police that day changed football forever. I am not saying that grounds did not need improving and refurbishment- but remember that the same testimony that is now being demolished in this latest report, played a large part in Lord Justice Taylor recommending that grounds become all seated– causing clubs to spend fortunes in refurbishment, health and safety, risk assessment and so on.

Capacities were reduced, income was reduced, expenditure was increased, bank loans were undertaken, interest incurred and costs rocketed. In some cases, hitherto successful clubs had to sacrifice on field success to finance the steps necessay for compliance. Some have never recovered in the footballing sense.

Now of course all of that pales into insignificance against the loss of 96 lives and the grief that has endured ever since that fateful day. Further, many of the stadia that have now been upgraded were in dire need of demolition or refurbishment, and there can be no doubt that the modern stadia that we have today offer far greater safety and improved facilities for the spectator.

However, the fact remains that the report that brought all of that about was based on lies, damned lies and yes false statistics and reports prepared by South Yorkshire Police Force.

The point here is that lies have consequences– consequences which go way beyond the purposes envisaged by those who do the lying.

Now that the truth is out, there are calls for prosecutions, there are calls for justice, there are calls for retribution– all of which will make some people sleep very uneasy in their beds tonight. Yet the truth is that no one can undo the consequences of the lies and the cover up, because there is no system in place to take back time and undo what flowed naturally and consequentially from those untruths.

And there is the point– truth. Truth is not a negotiable instrument. It can’t be cashed in for a few bits of truth, a lie or two and a compromise. No Truth is absolute.

Whatsmore, when the police or some other colective body of individuals seek to suppress the truth– by way of cover up, lies, obfuscation and deception– someone, somewhere will smell it and recognise it for what it is… eventually.

Those who have control or in authority are entrusted with those positions and that power, on the basis that they will act with honour. That word, honour, is a kind of old fashioned word and is perhaps a bit out of use. That is to be regretted, because without honour– a police force, a football club, an official body, an individual– has lost its way in society and serves no purpose whatsoever unless it can regain that honour– and the honour concerned cannot be awarded by any third party– it has to come from within.

According to many- including a former home secretary and a former Chief Constable– the only way that the “system” under which we live can regain its honour with regard to Hillsborough is to seek out, discipline and prosecute the wrongdoers who were responsible for the lies and the cover up. They are calling for the application of society’s rules without fear or favour- without deviation or compromise– that is how you act— and are seen to act honourably.

That principle applies to any situation where there has been wrongdoing and an attempt to cover it up.

Further, hopefully the newspaper industry will take a good look at itself and consider how one of the most popular publications in the land was deliberately and cynically used to peddle what turned out to be innacurate, self serving criminal propaganda, and how it did so in an attempt at sensationalism and ever larger copy sales.

Kenny Dalglish might no longer be employed in football or by Liverpool FC, but amidst the family that he holds so dear, and among the people of Liverpool ( both Red and Blue ) he will always be King Kenny purely because he acted with honour— even when it was very very tough to do so!

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SeamusPosted on9:37 pm - Sep 13, 2012


My, Mr Green that’s an awful lot of “Jobs” you’ve had.
Hope you declared all Payments to HMRC?

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Night TerrorPosted on9:38 pm - Sep 13, 2012


The Iceman says:
September 13, 2012 at 15:06

We need an SFA focused on boosting the development of young players and quality coaching of our International team. We appear to have a governing body intent on covering its own back and maintaining what it can of a failed status quo.

Who’s to say we don’t have both?

The youth development stuff is the nice part of the job and from what I’ve seen the SFA under Regan seems to get it. You may disagree, but it’s hard to see why from what you’ve written there.

The whole policing and punishing role must be a nightmare for them, however well or badly you think they have done that job.

The SFA are hardly undeserving of criticism, but just issuing blanket condemnation of everything they ever do without looking at it properly is not constructive.

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on9:40 pm - Sep 13, 2012


john clarke says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:28
———————————————————————————————————————–
JC,
I’ve already got a TD.What for?.
All I’ve said is if anyone want to discuss Scottish football in a fair and honest manner,they’ll be welcome here.
What’s wrong with that?.
People,anybody can click a TD.If you don’t agree come on and let us know.Join the debate.That’s why TSFM is here.You’re obviously reading so why not post.
What have you got to lose?.

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SeamusPosted on9:46 pm - Sep 13, 2012


BRTH,
Another great post – makes coming here worthwhile – keep it up please.

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twopanda bearsPosted on9:48 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Apologies – this is going to be technical and boring [4 JC espresso rating] – Independent Panels

Previously I`ve questioned the value of these if they report to compromised boards whose record of penalty sanctions makes [Denis Healy / Geoffrey Howe] being flogged by a dead sheep look draconian. Here I question, not the integrity of the Independent Panel, but the value of Football Panels findings based only from witnesses received submissions.

redetin posted: September – [a valuable resource]:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93212354/SFA-Rangers-Note-of-Reasons

SFA – Determination: Disciplinary Tribunal: The Rangers Football Club plc and Mr Craig Whyte
NOTE OF REASONS [29 March to 23 April] – Published 30 April 2012 – Over a number of days the SFA Independent Panel took evidence and deliberated on the CW adventure. The period under question included time before the takeover and time after the insolvency administration. Well and good – they found enough grounds to uphold SFA Rule breaches against RFC / CW accordingly. So far – so good.

However please refer to link: Namely: “Findings in Fact” – Pages 14-39 – Items 1-108
Most of these items are obvious context, but the item descriptions of the witnesses’ correlates with open sources. What is described as “Findings in Fact” from witness testimony might as well have been copied from the papers – there are no contradictions and nothing new. There seems to have been no close testing cross-examination and not clear if anyone under oath or even obliged to answer. It is not even clear that appropriate questions were asked outside the references of the submitted material from RFC. A cynic could describe some of these witness findings in fact as “It wisnae me – a big boy did it and ran away”. Bear in mind that D+P were complimented for their co-operation.

Why does this matter? – the SFA “Findings in Fact”? – published 30 April 2012.

Because D+P had submitted papers to the Police in February, by April 5 they acknowledged they were taking an action against CB on allegations and by late June a Criminal Investigation was underway [ etc etc]. Looks like quite a bit was overlooked by the Judicial Panel questioning, because they didn`t test the witnesses or were given no clue of the true context by some of the participants.

Reading Items 1-108 in parts reads like a fairy story. Butter wouldn`t melt in their mouths. In such a forum format are witnesses expected to incriminate themselves or volunteer information that could incriminate others? Indeed with CW deliberately and pointedly not present at the hearings by design to support, challenge evidence presented or indeed make a submission – all they state is that they’ll maintain CWs rights in absentia. Even with CW absenting, why was SDM of CO not called? So what`s the point?

In fairness the Tribunal acknowledges shortcomings and states in admission:
“So what has been heard by the Tribunal? In truth very little” [Page 55]

Now please tell me the value of an independent tribunal that publishes “findings in fact” that probably aren`t 100% accurate and / or miss out on core evidence? – And then admits they heard very little. This published 25 days after D+Ps first creditor’s report that expanded the story greatly.

Is it to be the same ol same ol with the SPL Inquiry? Well – next we hear anything is in two months’ time and no knowledge of their terms of reference, remit or practically nothing except they invite CG and Co to make submissions. I hope I`m wrong – but on previous no substantive faith in the process and that`s even before it goes to the horse trading and politics that will occur when the Tribunals findings eventually reaches the SPL Board. Until I see something different I am not confident that the interests of Scottish Football and all supporters are actually being served by such panels format.

SPL publishing the Panels preliminary terms of reference before November – especially if not in receipt of the FTT appeal findings – would help but not holding my breath. Am I wrong?

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john clarkePosted on9:49 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:34
.’Truth is not a negotiable instrument’
——
I select that sentence as being the kernel of your excellent post, BRTH.

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on9:58 pm - Sep 13, 2012


john clarke says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:49

Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:34
.’Truth is not a negotiable instrument’
———————————————————————————————————————
I agree,
But someone on here will TD this anyway!

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WokingceltPosted on9:59 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Still getting used to this not being a single issue Site like RTC, but here we go…
As a Celtic fan yes I am looking forward to Champions League football next week. But I am not looking forward to Celtic getting a cheque for £15m or whatever the number is. Strikes me that this became one of the poisonous spurs to the demise of RFC – essentially an incentive out of scale with the local competition and one that is likely to entrench a monopoly on the local competition. And so run the risk of ch
Personally I believe that the £15m should go to the national football authority (ok once it is reformed) with, in this instance Celtic maybe getting £5m and the balance to overall development of football in Scotland (who knows it might help develop a footballing Andy Murray rather than another generation of one footed clunkers)

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glasgowboabPosted on10:00 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Is the fielding of an ineligible player punishable by expulsion from the competition or a simple 0 – 3 forfeit and are these punishments in the Fifa rule book?

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WokingceltPosted on10:06 pm - Sep 13, 2012


And so run the risk of cheating. (being the missing word above!)

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on10:06 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Seamus says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:37

My, Mr Green that’s an awful lot of “Jobs” you’ve had.
Hope you declared all Payments to HMRC?
___________________________________________________________________________
Don’t think he stayed long enough to reach the tax threadhold.Our little Yorkshire Pudding isn’t as daft as he looks.

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Galling fiverPosted on10:07 pm - Sep 13, 2012


TPB’s your last point, SPL inquiry, good point, very, very well put.

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smallteaserPosted on10:13 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:34

Further, hopefully the newspaper industry will take a good look at itself and consider how one of the most popular publications in the land was deliberately and cynically used to peddle what turned out to be innacurate, self serving criminal propaganda, and how it did so in an attempt at sensationalism and ever larger copy sales.
==================================================
BRTH, excellent article as per.
Your comment on the newspaper industry is a bit proto typing we are talking about the SUN, lets not tar them all with same brush, or to the same extent anyway.
Anyone, newspaper, tv, radio, MP, celeb, could and should have shot down the reporting by the SUN.
They didn’t they still won’t, after Wapping after phone tapping, now a 23 year old lie has been uncovered. Which MP by the way fed them the story? Under whos’ direction?
Will Sir Norman Bettison revert to being Norman Bettison from next week, or do titles only disappear when money is involved like SIR Fred.

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smallteaserPosted on10:16 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13

Man up for GS, its a TD, not life threatening.

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jammy dodgerPosted on10:17 pm - Sep 13, 2012


I would like to raise a topic that in my view is important to Scottish football, but has received scant attention here so far. Here is a link http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19548252 to a story that must surely be of interest to all of us. (my apologies if it it doesn’t appear as a link, copy/paste should work)

My own view is that wider ownership has to be a good way forward for the game here. SDM shows clearly the dangers of one man control and the megalomaniac syndrome.

We had a St Mirren fan who was a regular and respected poster on RTC, and maybe here,sorry I can’t recall the name (auldheid?), and I would really be interested in the views of any Buddies on this important development.

The ownership structure of the clubs is an important issue for Scottish football, and maybe more fundamental than some other issues that are currently being discussed here, understandably enough while we all wait for the wheels of justice to turn.

I have said before that a total restructuring of the Scottish game is urgently required, and I think that a review of club ownership structures should be part of that. Any views?

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mirrenmanPosted on10:18 pm - Sep 13, 2012


jonny says:
September 13, 2012 at 20:35
12 0 Rate This
why did Uefa give the 250,000 payment for ragers players involvement in the Euro’s to D&P and not CG ,surely if 2012 fc are the same club as ragers (IA ) then Charlie would be screaming for his money .

can someone give me a link to this story 😉

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It’sagoal!Posted on10:24 pm - Sep 13, 2012


mirrenman 22:18

here you go: http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/272000-boost-for-rangers-oldco.18866339

I posted on this last night – am pleased that The Herald wrote this story this morning – it is one of the defining statements that show the players played for a different club last season.

On top of this – the @£3M transfer fees still owed to Rangers(ia) are also due to the creditors pot – not Chuckie Green’s New Team.

Just as the transfer fee for Steven Davis is also due to the Creditors pot.

Mon the Creditors pot

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on10:27 pm - Sep 13, 2012


smallteaser says:
September 13, 2012 at 22:16

0

0

Rate This

Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13

Man up for GS, its a TD, not life threatening.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s not a problem,Smallteaser.I just think the blog would be better off if people posted,rather than TUs or TDs.How can you discuss anything if no one posts?.

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broganrogantrevinoandhoganPosted on10:29 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Parahandy @20:33

Oh That is furtive….. furtive I tell you.

Para Handy was always furtive.

And burying salient information amidst tediously boring board minutes/

That too is furtive… and the men from the ministry don’t like it either.

Sunny Jim

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smallteaserPosted on10:29 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Interesting article on THE Rangers website

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2181-biggest-of-our-history

I will overlook the bit that says “….Taking on 54-times Scottish champions Gers…….”

I would like to draw attention to the Annan part of this tale ( is this a New Firm derby)

““It has been absolutely tremendous (to make the progress the club has made). We’ve been associate members of the SFL for four years now.
“We gained full membership at the end of last season at the AGM and there has been a lot of work done at the club over the summer.”

This would appear that the SFL rules were followed and after a satisfactory period of 3 year of audited accounts, full membership was granted. There are certain financial drawbacks to only being associate members.

Now have a look at the how quickly another NEW Club, as described by their Chairman were treated, I think it took three hours to qualify and that was without any audited accounts.

Stinks.

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essexbeancounterPosted on10:38 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Para Handy says:
September 13, 2012 at 20:33
=========================================================================

Para…nice to see you are still around and posting…I trust London has not way laid you and McPhail…?

…chust keep taking the minutes….LOl

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john clarkePosted on10:42 pm - Sep 13, 2012


jammy dodger says:
September 13, 2012 at 22:17
‘..My own view is that wider ownership has to be a good way forward for the game here. SDM shows clearly the dangers of one man control and the megalomaniac syndrome..

—-
Some time ago I raised the question : what is ‘Supporters Direct’ for?

I have since learned (I think) that one of their principal aims is to help encourage clubs along the path of ‘going public’, by allowing their support ( perhaps via supporters’ trusts or supporters’ associations) to acquire some level of actual ownership in the club.

Clubs like Celtic which already have a large body of shareholders might well be encouraged to have supporters ( as opposed to shareholders) formally represented on their boards.

And other,non-public, clubs will be encouraged to look for ways to allow their supporters’ representative bodies to have some financial buy-in to their clubs, not necessarily on the St Mirren buy-out model.

And when I say ‘encouraged’ , that might include a small element of legal obligation ( maybe along the German model, but not so extensive).

There are quite tricky legal and political issues involved in moves in these directions.
The hope would have to be that the clubs themselves can see the ‘justice’ in the idea, as well as its commercial necessity.

And that the fan-base is sufficiently interested in participating and pressing for that kind of change.

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on10:45 pm - Sep 13, 2012


jammy dodger says:
September 13, 2012 at 22:17

I would like to raise a topic that in my view is important to Scottish football, but has received scant attention here so far. Here is a link http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19548252 to a story that must surely be of interest to all of us. (my apologies if it it doesn’t appear as a link, copy/paste should work)

My own view is that wider ownership has to be a good way forward for the game here. SDM shows clearly the dangers of one man control and the megalomaniac syndrome.

We had a St Mirren fan who was a regular and respected poster on RTC, and maybe here,sorry I can’t recall the name (auldheid?), and I would really be interested in the views of any Buddies on this important development.

The ownership structure of the clubs is an important issue for Scottish football, and maybe more fundamental than some other issues that are currently being discussed here, understandably enough while we all wait for the wheels of justice to turn.

I have said before that a total restructuring of the Scottish game is urgently required, and I think that a review of club ownership structures should be part of that. Any views?
======================================================================
Dicey one,this.
I am all for fans having a bigger stake,financially,as well as emotionally in their club,for two reasons:

1.They could exercise more control over the directors of their own club.tHe events of this summer have shown how powerful the fans voice can be.It should not be ignored.
However,
2.Maybe if fans were represented on the board,they would actually see what it takes to keep a club alive,find out how difficult it can be to balance the books,never mind budget for higher wages,etc.
RFC fans didn’t give a monkeys about EBT’s,dual contracts etc.Even with what’s happened the bulk of RFC fans are still calling for more signings,big names etc.If they,or the fans of any club were on the board and could see what needs to be done to allow their club to survive,never mind prosper.The face of football would look entirely different.

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FIFAPosted on10:46 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Truth is negotiable,by the individual ,it’s the consequences of not telling the truth thats not negotiable ,the clock cannot be turned back ,whats done is done and you have to live with this ,some do some dont ,the real heartbreak of a wrong will affect son’s ,daughters,grandson’s & grandaughter’s and force them from their communities that they have been raised in ,why because their forefathers could not negotiate the consequences of their actions ,for what would someone put their families future in danger ,money,self interest,people dont just go down this route because someone told them too there has to be something much more ,pieces of silver the few will take ,thats the way of life ,but for so many involved in larger corporations to accept the bribe must be taught from day one of entering that employment at certain levels ,we have all read of corruption but most dont follow the affects of this ,this is where the internet comes in ,very few nowadays will not be unaware of the consequences of negotiating the truth within themselves ,again life is not a rehearsal ,stay on stage to enjoy the show ,no one wants to exit stage right before lifes finally

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HirsutePursuitPosted on10:47 pm - Sep 13, 2012


glasgowboab says:
September 13, 2012 at 22:00
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Is the fielding of an ineligible player punishable by expulsion from the competition or a simple 0 – 3 forfeit and are these punishments in the Fifa rule book?
==============================
http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%2016%20JULY%202012%20(CLEAN).pdf

These are the powers of sanction available to the commission.

Powers of the Board and Commissions
G6.1 Upon determining that a breach of or failure to fulfil the Rules has been established, the Board or, as the case may be, a Commission may:-
G6.1.1 give a warning as to future conduct;
G6.1.2 give a reprimand;
G6.1.3 impose a fine;
G6.1.4 annul the result of an Official Match;
G6.1.5 order that an Official Match be replayed;
G6.1.6 impose a deduction of points;
G6.1.7 award an Official Match (with such deemed score as it thinks appropriate) to a Club;
G6.1.8 order the playing of an Official Match or Matches behind closed doors;
G6.1.9 order the closure of all or part of a Stadium for such period and for such purposes as it thinks appropriate;
G6.1.10 order the playing of an Official Match or Matches at such Stadium as it thinks appropriate;
G6.1.11 subject to Rule G6.3, order that a Club be expelled from the League;
G6.1.12 withdraw or withhold the award of a title or award;
G6.1.13 order any Club, Club Official or Player to pay compensation to any Club, Player, person or party;
G6.1.14 order any Club, Club Official or Player to comply with any obligation or direction;
G6.1.15 cancel or refuse the Registration of any Player Registered or attempted to be Registered;
G6.1.16 order that a Club concerned be debarred from Registering Players for such period as it thinks appropriate;
G6.1.17 order that any person, persons or group of persons be prohibited from attending at such Official Match or Matches and for such period as it thinks appropriate;
G6.1.18 make such other direction, sanction or disposal, not expressly provided for in these Rules, as it shall think appropriate; and/or
G6.1.19 make such order as to expenses, including the expenses of the Board and/or, as the case may be, Commission and/or other party, as it thinks appropriate.

G6.2 When imposing a direction, sanction or disposal the Board or, as the case may be a Commission, may apply such number and combination of the directions, sanctions and/or disposals provide for in Rule G.1 as it thinks appropriate, may make such provision for time to comply with any one or more of same as it thinks appropriate, may defer for such period or until such event as it shall think appropriate the decision on or imposition of a sanction or sanctions and shall be entitled to suspend the effect of any such direction, sanction or disposal for such period and/or on such conditions as it thinks appropriate.

G6.3 The expulsion of a Club from the League shall not take effect unless and until it is sanctioned by a resolution passed at a General Meeting of the Company in accordance with the
requisite majority specified in the Articles of Association.

G6.4 In the case of an Adjudication or an Appeal, the Board or, as the case may be, a Commission, may exercise any of the powers in Rules G6.1.13, G6.1.14, G6.1.18 and/or G6.1.19 as it shall think appropriate in order to deal justly with the matter before it for determination.

These are the specific rules they will be looking at.

D1.11 Any Club Playing an ineligible Player in an Official Match and the Player concerned shall be in breach of the Rules.

D1.13 A Club must, as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actually incurred, between that Club and Player, to
the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the case may be, extended.

They will be looking at this section to confirm that The Rangers Football Club plc’s (recently renamed RFC2012 plc) “agreement” with the SPL continues beyond their membership of the SPL and SFA if: claims “have arisen or arise in respect of circumstances prior to such date”.

Agreement on compliance with applicable rules, statutes and regulations
A7.1.1 Membership of the League shall constitute an agreement between the Company and each Club, and between each of the Clubs, to be bound by and to comply with:
(a) these Rules and the Articles of Association;
(b) the SFA Articles and the statutes and regulations of UEFA and FIFA;
(c) the Laws of the Game; and
(d) the terms of the Settlement Agreement insofar as such terms apply to the members of the League for that Season.

A7.1.2 Nothing in these Rules shall relieve any member of the Company from its obligations as a full member club of the SFA to comply with the applicable SFA Articles for so long as it
remains a member of SFA.

A7.2 Such agreement shall have effect from the date of the Club’s admission to the League and terminate upon the Club ceasing to be a member thereof (but without prejudice to any rights or claims which may have arisen or arise in respect of circumstances prior to such date and to any Rules which, by their terms, establish rights and obligations applicable after such date).

Hope this helps.

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smallteaserPosted on10:51 pm - Sep 13, 2012


I am well confused after reading the Rangers history of their crest then checking wiki via google.

“The ‘READY’ Crest again featured a circular design but with ‘The Rangers Football Club Ltd’ shortened to ‘Rangers Football Club’ on the outer rim.”

http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/crest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rangers_Football_Club_Ltd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.

So who is The Rangers Football Club Ltd, Newco? or Oldco?

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ThereekPosted on10:54 pm - Sep 13, 2012


john clarke says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:06
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In an idle moment, but reflecting on D&P, does anyone know whether they are physically located at Ibrox during the working day, or are they in some other office?
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My recollection is that someone suggested they were offsite not least because Green may be able to charge them for rent if they were still working out of Ibrox. Don’t think that was confirmed one way or another though,

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smallteaserPosted on10:56 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Still no word on Murray Park becoming the Moses McNeil or David Cooper complex?, No another lie told to the supporters!

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john clarkePosted on10:57 pm - Sep 13, 2012


Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 13, 2012 at 21:58
—-
‘..I agree,
But someone on here will TD this anyway!’
——–
And you were right! 🙂

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