Commander Green, The FIFA man, and life after the Murray Empire

Good Morning,

A number of years ago I sat and watched while the late David Will, one time chairman of Brechin City, former President of the Scottish Football Association and Vice President of FIFA, peered over the upper rims of his glasses at the assembled board and management of St Johnstone Football Club and proceeded to brand them all as a “shower of thrawn buggers!”.

The reason for the tongue in cheek outburst from Scotland’s highest ranking official from the world of football was the organisation of the centenary dinner celebrating 100 years of the Perth Club— which the club saw fit to hold well outside the centenary year. Will had been invited to speak as a guest at the dinner ( yes Mr Cosgrove I was there ), along with then manager Alex Totten and Craigie Veitch the former sports editor of the Scotsman.

For those who are not familiar with old Scots words, Thrawn can have a couple of meanings which are very similar. If someone is being obstinate, stubborn, uncompromising, perverse or intractable then in auld Scots we say that he or she is being thrawn. Equally, the original meaning has been said to be crooked, twisted, misshapen or deformed. A tree could be thrawn, as could someone’s arm or other part of the body. To be thrawn-leggit was to have a crooked leg.

These meanings then sort of morphed into meanings like difficult or contrary, and so twisted and crooked in that sense, and when David Will called St Johnstone a shower of “thrawn Buggers” he meant that they were being awkward, contrary and perverse in holding a centenary dinner when it wasn’t actually the centenary. He was of course being lighthearted.

That episode came to mind this week when I read the latest statements from Alastair Johnston and Charles Green. Both set out an argument which suits their individual purposes and adopted perspectives, and both perhaps chose to ignore counter argument or salient facts which would obviously derail their logic and train of thought. With the greatest of respect to both men— what a pair of thrawn buggers!!!

In that vein let me recap as to where I think we stand on this September morn in relation to the EBT debate, the question of “Club” and the Independent enquiry into payment outwith contract.

Clearly, all of these issues are closely linked but each stands in its own wee pocket or chapter, and when taken together they serve to make  a whole book or paint an overall scene.

The EBT issue has been repeatedly explained on the RTC blog and elsewhere but at the risk of repeating what is already known the fundamentals are as follows:

Employee Benefits Trusts under certain circumstances are or were a perfectly legal business and accounting tool.

However, in order for the trusts to provide substantial tax advantages, any reward, remuneration or compensation they provide to a beneficiary must not form part of their contract of employment or work package. If this rule is not strictly adhered to, then tax is payable on the sums “given” to the employee, with the employer being liable for tax and national insurance contributions of any employee.

It is alleged by HMRC, that a number of persons who were at one time employed by Rangers PLC have received benefits by way of a specific EBT. Further, the benefits which these employees received were clearly related to their contracts of employment and so these payments are liable to tax, together with interest for late payment and penalties for non-declaration and so on.

This is denied by Rangers PLC and by Murray International Holdings, and MIH have instigated and conducted an appeal against the HMRC view, with that appeal being determined by an independent tax tribunal (The FTT). The basis of their argument appears to be that the benefits received by the beneficiaries were nothing to do with MIH or Rangers and that these payments were purely discretionary and at the instance of the trustees of the trusts concerned– none of whom have any connection with Rangers PLC or MIH. Therefore– there is no tax payable.

Against this there seems to be a plethora of evidence which contradicts this stance including a number of side letters or second contracts which show that any payments to these EBT’s were indeed contractual and part of an overall contract of employment “package”– and if that is deemed to be the case then tax, interest and penalties are indeed, and always were, due.

These contracts or side letters then seem to fly in the face of the documentation lodged with the SPL and later the SFA, as both bodies require sight of all contractual documentation relating to players remuneration and their terms and conditions of employment. Contracts have to be in standard form and lodged with the appropriate bodies to ensure that the player is in fact properly registered to play for the team.

Further, the rules of football prohibit any player being paid by a third party, and so payments made to a player by someone other than his employer is a breach of that rule.

It is this issue that the Nimmo Smith Tribunal is to investigate and rule upon.

For their part, Rangers PLC appear to argue that the existence of EBT’s were always declared in the notes of their accounts, and so the footballing authorities should have known that they were in use at the club. More recently, Alastair Johnston has stated that the club did receive a request for clarification from the SFA in 2011 to which the Rangers PLC board responded disclosing documents ( although he does not specify what documents ) over and above the normal documentation sent re player contracts. Johnston has gone on to state that there was no response or follow up whatsoever from the SFA, and the appropriate UEFA licence simply arrived in the post without further ado. He concludes that as a result of the documentation sent, the SFA must have known at that time that the EBT payments were being used for “player compensation” purposes.

Now, AJ argues that if any misdemeanour or breach of rules has occurred it does not merit the much discussed and publicised “stripping of titles” and that any failure on the part of the Rangers PLC board amounts to no more than an oversight or an administrative error which does not justify the ultimate penalty.

Let’s just pause there and remember who and what AJ actually is in life. Alastair Johnston holds the posts of vice-chairman and member of the board of directors of International Management Group, the leading international sports and entertainment group. Now everyone knows that IMG was formed by Mark McCormack and represents sports stars as their agent. However what is less well known is that the majority of IMG’s work comes from broadcasting – not necessarily mainstream broadcasting – but the broadcasting of certain events to mobile phones and so on and in this context the company works with the likes of Vodafone and other major service providers in the sector. Further the company has the rights to market and broadcast the sports activities of a huge number of schools and colleges in the US as well as music channels, entertainment and so on.

I raise this aspect for one very important reason.

That entire industry is based on one thing and one thing only and that is………… a Licensing system. Broadcasters of any sort obtain the rights to broadcast by way of a licence. They licence content, they licence by area and geographical location, they licence for set time periods,they share licences, sell licences, create licences and terminate licences. Without a licence, they can have all the technology in the world, all the necessary content and so on but they are not able to show it, sell it and profit from it. Proper licensing is vital!

Further, they are very precious about licences- and rightly so– because unless they have the licences tightly tied up, others in the same field can attempt to steal their content, their territory and their rights– all of which are valuable assets.

So go back again and look at all AJ’s comments about proper registration of contracts, about proper administration of documents and licence applications for players, UEFA competition and so against the background of him being a grand fromage in a major company whose absolute lifeblood depends upon proper licensing.

Do you remotely believe that the continual and prolonged inability to properly declare all relevent contracts and player documentation to a licensing body ( both SFA and SPL in this instance) can be merely an oversight or an administrative error?

Further, take a look at the accounts for Rangers PLC at least in the year ended 2005, where it is made very clear that the football management side of the business was working extremely closely with the board in all business and contract matters.

The SFA in particular fulfills a licencing function– a function which is so important that without passing the tests laid down, any club of no matter what size simply cannot play or participate in the sole sphere it is designed to participate and play in. There are strict rules about licences, and a duty on the SFA as well as Rangers PLC to make sure that all of the conditions that must be fulfilled in order to gain a licence have in fact been met. It is not a process that should be left to chance or a process that any major organisation would leave to a junior member of staff or without there being a company defined process and procedure to ensure that the applications and compliance issues are properly dealt with.

Further, if you think about how a footballer player signs for a club– the negotiations, the transfer fee, the personal terms, the contracts, the agents commission and so on, you will realise that a player signing and the terms of his contract – or contracts for that matter – cannot simply come about by accident and outwith the boards knowledge or consent.

In short, it is impossible. It is also impossible, in my respectful opinion, to proceed on a decade long process of administrative errors involving the repeated failure to disclose secondary contracts or side letters. As someone once said to me, there comes a point where a continued and continual series of repeated errors or omissions starts to look suspiciously like a plan!

However, if we were to take AJ’s comments at face value, and accept that there were repeated failures on the part of the Rangers Board by accident, then to be honest there would be every right for shareholders and investors to hold the Directors liable for such negligence. Directors regularly and properly insure themselves against such claims– so I wonder if AJ has paid his insurance premiums?

Further, if he as Chairman presided over such mismanagement, then no doubt his time at IMG is limited as I doubt such  an organisation could afford to have such a dunderheid permanently ensconced in a senior managerial position.

However, AJ appears to be a positively straightforward chap when compared to Mr Green.

He of course is on record as saying that if the proposed CVA were to be rejected and the club forced into liquidation then the club dies, the history dies, and so on and so forth– but of course that was yesterday or the week before or even the week or months before that. That was the message that Mr Green wanted to convey at that time in the hope that HMRC would buckle down and accept the proposals.

Now, Mr Green seeks to sing a different tune, and recently latched on to Lord Nimmo Smith’s comments about the “club” being a continuing entity and capable of transfer from one owner to the next. He muses that if that is the case then the “club” may well in fact still be a member of the SPL and the SFA  as no matter what happened to Rangers PLC, Rangers FC are ” a continuing entity” and therefore should not be forced to apply to rejoin any body which it was always a member of– such as the SPL and the SFA. Of course this then means that all the history and so on remains– despite what he himself said earlier!

Now of course, Charles makes for a good soundbite and is mad keen to ensure that as many Rangers fans as possible take up shares in “the club” when he offers them for sale.

Yet there is the problem,– shares in what are being offered for sale? According to Charles– and following his logic— he can offer as many shares in the Rangers Football Club Ltd for sale as he wants — but that company will not actually be Rangers FC– will it? If Rangers PLC was not actually Rangers FC– then what was it that David Murray was offering for sale all those years ago? Or could it be that Charles has just got it plain wrong?

You see for some reason he did not quote Lord Nimmo Smith in full– especially that part where the learned judge gave a brief description of his interpretation of the law of clubs.

For example Charles chooses not to comment on this sentence from the learned judge:

“This is not to say that a Club has legal personality, separate from and additional to the legal personality of its owner and operator.   We are satisfied that it does not, and Mr McKenzie did not seek to argue otherwise.   So a Club cannot, lacking legal personality, enter into a contract by itself.   But it can be affected by the contractual obligations of its owner and operator.”

Earlier, Nimmo Smith said this:

“While it no doubt depends on individual circumstances what exactly is comprised in the undertaking of any particular Club, it would at the least comprise its name, the contracts with its players, its manager and other staff, and its ground, even though these may change from time to time.”

So let’s pause there.

A club is an undertaking— in other words any type of loose arrangement involving a group of people with a common purpose. If a club is not an incorporated club ( a limited company ) then to be anything other than a loose idea of a few folk getting together for a common purpose such as a holiday or a meal or to read a book or anything else– then of course it should have a formal constitution and a set of rules for its members.

So– where is the constitution for Rangers Football Club? Where are its rules of admission which says who can join? Are there certain rules that preclude you from joining? Is there a set limit on how many members there can be at any one time? Who are the officers of this club?

At the current time, Mr Green seems to be very keen on everything British and everything of a loyal and royal nature. So here is a quote from the pages of the Royal Yachting Association of Great Britain on the legal status of unincorporated clubs and so on.

“Since an unincorporated club has no legal status, it is incapable itself of owning property or being party to a contract. It is therefore standard practice to appoint trustees, who are usually required in the rules to comply with committee instructions, to hold the property (whether freehold land and buildings, yachts or a long leasehold of a reservoir) on behalf of the club members.”

Eh going by that statement – Rangers FC never owned Ibrox or Murray Park– and indeed can never own Ibrox and Murray Park. Someone had to be the trustee.

Further, it can never have been granted a licence to play football— you can’t grant a right to a non legal entity or to a body which has no legal status. You cannot accept a licensing application from a body which has no legal status. You cannot be employed by a body with no legal status.

Rangers FC has no constitution, no legal persona, is not allowed to own property ( heritable, moveable or intellectual), can’t enter into contracts and so on.

In short, Rangers FC is a body with no legal status– it does not exist and has never existed— unless it is to be found within the confines of Rangers PLC which everyone now recognises is in Administration and will soon be liquidated.

Still don’t believe me?

Ok here is a recent release by the Scottish legal commission setting out changes that they want to make to the law so that “clubs” can gain some legal status:

“In Scotland, and indeed throughout the United Kingdom, unincorporated associations are not recognised as entities separate from their members. Consequently, such organisations cannot carry out acts such as entering into contracts, owning property or engaging employees. The lack of legal personality can also give rise to unfortunate, and perhaps unforeseen, repercussions for members. For example, it is possible that, under the current law, a member of an unincorporated association could, by virtue of that membership alone, find himself or herself personally liable in delict to a third party injured at an event organised by the association. Further difficulties relating to this area of the law are set out in our Discussion Paper on Unincorporated Associations (DP 140) which was published at the end of 2008.

Our Report recommends a simple regime, with the minimum of administrative burdens, to ensure that associations and clubs are recognised as legal entities. Separate legal personality will be accorded to associations which satisfy certain conditions. The main conditions are that the association has at least two members; that its objects do not include making a profit for its members; and that it has a constitution containing certain minimum specified provisions. These provisions are: the association’s name; its purpose; membership criteria; the procedure for the election or appointment of those managing it; the powers and duties of its office-bearers; the rules for distributing its assets if it is dissolved; and the procedure for amending its constitution. Many associations will already have constitutions which contain these provisions but, for those which do not, we anticipate that style constitutions will be made available, free of charge, on the websites of organisations such as the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations”

Maybe Charles should seek some advice from the Scottish Council on Voluntary organisations? And perhaps he should note that part about not making a profit for members too!

Then again, as Lord Nimmo Smith has said the actual status of a club and who or what a club is depends on individual circumstances. So with regard to Rangers, let’s look at who would know– for example, who did Charles get “Rangers” from? Duff and Phelps of course — so what do they say?

Well they have stuck to their guns because in each and every report that they have issued to the court, the shareholders and the creditors they have included the following definition:

Rangers / the Company / the Club The Rangers Football Club Plc (In Administration), Ibrox Stadium, Glasgow, G51 2XD (Company number SC004276);

Now that doesn’t really help Charles does it.

Ok so, lets ignore Craig Whyte because everyone knows that he was a diddy— let’s go to folk that are far more sensible– how about the Board of Rangers PLC before Craig Whyte– what did they have to say:

Well, here is a statement from May 2011 which seems to set out who and what the then Directors thought amounted to the club– and let’s face it– they should know!

“Further to today’s statement from Wavetower Limited (“the acquirer”), the Independent Board Committee of The Rangers Football Club plc (“the club”), comprising Alastair Johnston, Martin Bain, John Greig, John McClelland and Donald McIntyre, (”IBC”) would like to make the following statement:

“In recent weeks the IBC has been engaged with the acquirer and has secured an enhanced financial commitment from Wavetower for future investment into the club. The decision on the sale and purchase of the majority shareholding in the club firmly and ultimately rests between Murray MHL Limited (“MHL”) and Lloyds Banking Group (“LBG”).

“Although the IBC has no power to block the transaction, following its enquiries, the IBC and Wavetower have differing views on the future revenue generation and cash requirements of the club and the IBC is concerned about a lack of clarity on how future cash requirements would be met, particularly any liability arising from the outstanding HMRC case.

“Wavetower is purchasing MHL’s 85% shareholding in the club for £1 and the club’s indebtedness with LBG is to be assigned to Wavetower. This share transaction would ordinarily trigger a requirement on Wavetower under Rule Nine of The Takeover Code for a mandatory offer to be made to the other shareholders.

“Given this transaction structure and following discussions with the Takeover Panel, the IBC considers there to be no purpose in the acquirer making such an offer to acquire all other shareholdings at effectively nil value per share. Accordingly the IBC has agreed that the offer period for the club will now end.

“In agreeing that no offer should be made to all shareholders the IBC has insisted that the acquirer issues a document to all shareholders setting out the full terms of the transaction, comprehensive details on the acquirer and the sources of its funding and giving firm commitments to agreed future investment in the club.

“The IBC is committed to ensure that the transaction and future investment and funding proposals should be transparent to all the shareholders and supporters of the club”

Ah— that doesn’t really help Charles Green’s current argument either does it?

So here we are, on the cusp of the FTT ruling, with a share offering in the offing, and SPL enquiry scheduled for November and no doubt Mark Daly and the Panorama team beavering away in the background getting ready for another documentary.

The decision of the FTT may reveal yet more of what the bold AJ describes as “Administrative errors” by way of failing to administer EBT’s properly so resulting in  a massive tax bill, and the SPL enquiry may reveal further “Administrative errors” in failing to properly record player contracts for a decade, with the result that players were never properly registered in the first place and so were illegal players during championship winning games.

Yet all that is history and in the past.

Today’s Rangers has a new hero, a new commander– even though who he works for is a closely guarded secret and remains a mystery to most of us who may be interested to find out who Charles Green really is and who he represents. He seems to attack certain quarters then retreat, antagonise and appease, and has a habit of constantly contradicting himself when it suits.

In the interim he reminds me of the most famous creation of the American writer Timothy Zahn who brought about a revival in the fortunes of the Star Wars franchise, bringing it widespread attention for the first time in years. He did this by creating a new villain to follow in the footsteps of the administratively challenged and ultimately vanquished Darth Vader.

Zahn describes this new villain’s command style as considerably different from that of Darth Vader  and other typical Imperial commanders; instead of punishing failure and dissent, he promotes creativity among his crew and accepts ideas from subordinates. He is a tactical genius who has made extensive study of military intelligence and art, and is willing to retreat instead of making a stand in a losing battle.

His full name and his true origins are only known to a few select individuals of the Empire and the New Republic.

To quote Wikipedia:

“His name is ………… reminiscent of the old Scots word meaning Twisted ot Crooked.

The character’s name is……….. Thrawn.

I suspect that we are about to see some pretty Thrawn statements from a shower of Thrawn buggers as the late David Will would have said!

1,508 thoughts on “Commander Green, The FIFA man, and life after the Murray Empire


  1. davis58 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 14:52
    0 0 Rate This
    Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 14:48
    And on Rangers being the most successful club? You believe they are. I know they’re not. Again, do you see the difference?
    Yes I do, we will never come to agree on this subject.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    That’s like you believing that 2+2=5 and me knowing that 2+2=4. You may never agree with me but the fact remains that I’m right and you’re wrong.


  2. Tragic news about Corsica.

    Probably the best commenter on RTC – always clear and fair, and always made a point or pushed the conversation forwards.

    I salute you sir – you are missed.


  3. Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:03

    Ok so you are right and I am wrong, So you want us to throw statistics at each other all night and bore the death out of every one.


  4. I think the best tribute to Corsica would be that he never mentioned his failing health on here. He would have considered it OT.
    RIP, Corsica.


  5. Weird that in cyberspace you are thrown by the loss of a poster,whom you never knew, but you develop a camaraderie on this site and I always enjoyed C’s contributions and the thoughts and sentiments posed. I remember his prose and liked his tone.

    To Corsica.


  6. Fantastic post from BRTH once again., I particularly like the quote from the old board where the company and club appear to be the same thing. Got to love how these folks change position more than practitioners of the Kama Sutra! 😉

    RIP Corsica, your erudite posts will be sorely missed indeed.


  7. Are Rangers innocent of cheating?

    Well it hasn’t been proven yet, but we have seen on tv, and in the newspapers, evidence presented that would very strongly suggest they have. HMRC themselves, who have investigated Rangers tax dealings, seem totally convinced that they have dodged tax by an illegally operated scheme. We have seen what appear to be side-letters and heard ex-players describe their experience of EBTs and know that very learned lawyers have seen enough evidence to procede with an investigation and tribunal. In effect, we have been bombarded with evidence, if not proof, that Rangers have avoided tax illegally and have improperly registered players to the extent that they have cheated Scottish and European football and the Treasury. There can be no doubt, whatsoever, that many Rangers players have benefited from EBTs. Unfortunately, until the FTT reports it’s findings they cannot put their evidence into the public domain, and likewise, the SPL/SFA can’t do so until the SPL Tribunal makes it’s decision on the dual contract issue. However, the weight of evidence presented to the public domain comes down heavily on a guilty verdict in both cases.

    On the other hand, Rangers, and their current and previous board members, could, should they wish, put evidence of their innocence out into the public domain, if it existed. Even if they were unable to produce documentary proof, they could still go public and explain exactly how it was administered, but instead, they merely make insipid statements that they are innocent and claim that it was all an administrative error. In fact, we have David Murray claiming all was above board and correct while Alistair Johnston claims they made administrative errors, so even their weak attempts at proclaiming innocence contradict each other. To put it in a football context, if a team is losing 5-0 with 5 minutes to go, who’d argue against them losing? It could be argued that they’d not lost until the final whistle, but the weight of evidence points to a defeat!

    Or; RTC and PMGB have provided us for nearly 2 years with blogs that made claims of wrongdoing at Ibrox, heavily refuted by all those at Ibrox and in the MSM, and so far everything that has come to pass has shown them to have been correct. Only the findings of the FTT and SPL Tribunal remain to be confirmed, so who do you think will have got the results right? Those who have told the truth, or those who have, so far, lied?


  8. RIP Corsica
    An intellectual, amusing and fair-minded gentleman……..thoughts and prayers with your family at this sad time xx


  9. BRTH, thank you for that entertaining, beautifully crafted simplification of matters that I tended to find confusing.

    I


  10. davis58 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 14:16

    OK, so you expect me to believe the words of an anonymous blogger, or Mark Daly, has anyone, other than them seen evidence of dual contracts or side letters, it makes no sense.

    If there were dual contracts/Side letters then surely the appeal process would have been finished long before now.
    ——————–

    RTC, the anonymous blogger, has laid out his evidence and arguments over an extended blog. I get the impression you haven’t really looked at it. But don’t get hung up on that. He answers reasonable questions from some RFC fans on twitter. Why not ask him? But if Daly and RTC have seen the evidence and presented a compelling case, then surely the authorities have seen the same information, plus some?

    Who knows, perhaps RFC will win on appeal? Perhaps Lord Nimmo and the QCs will find them blameless? I agree, you would think that the appeal process would be finished by now, but who’s to say it isn’t?


  11. Sorry if I am going over old ground, but was any comment made on here about Green meeting with Murray to talk about buying Edmiston House?

    I cannot recall if that office building as it now is, was originally situated on ground that belonged to Rangers PLC or whether Murray bought additional ground next to Ibrix and built his call centre there.

    I had thought that at one point, Rangers PLC received rent from response who I know had a presence at Ibrox.

    Can anyone recall what the position is and is it the case that Response are still tenants to whoever actually owns what we know as Ibrox?


  12. RIP Corsica, I’ll say a wee prayer for you
    Always looked forward to his posts, and unique insights
    Thoughts and prayers with his family and friends


  13. BRTH
    Is this of interest?

    Edmiston House – 100 Edmiston Drive
    Glasgow, G51 2YX

    Property type:Office Sub Type:- Status:Existing , Renov 1995 Year built:1985
    Floors:3 Typical floor:10,000 sq ft Building size:30,000 sq ft
    For sale price:For Sale Price:-
    Yield:-
    Smallest space:9,700 sq ft Largest space:30,000 sq ft Total space:30,000 sq ft Rent:
    Negotiable
    Parking:94 Surface spaces are available Amenities:A/C, Security System, Reception

    Space available:
    Floor

    Sq ft Available

    Rent

    Status

    Lease term

    Space use
    GRND [Flyer] [Space Notes]

    9,700

    Negotiable

    Available

    Negotiable

    Office
    1st [Flyer] [Space Notes]

    9,700

    Negotiable

    Available

    Negotiable

    Office
    2nd [Flyer] [Space Notes]

    10,600

    Negotiable

    Available

    Negotiable

    Office

    Marketing flyer Marketing Flyer
    Space notes Space Notes

    The property comprises a built office building offering approximately 30,000 sq ft of office accommodation across three floors.

    The building, formerly Rangers FC’s Social Club was converted into offices in the mid 1990s. The property is located in Edmiston Drive is accessed via Harrison Drive, to the North, and is roughly rectangular, running in a broadly north-south orientation, with its western and eastern boundaries delineated by Ibrox Stadium and Copeland Road.

    The site is well serviced by public transport links with Cessnock and Ibrox Subway Stations close by; situated in close proximity to Paisley Road West, the main arterial bust route linking the City Centre with Greater Glasgow the site benefits from connectivity to the wider Scottish National Road network with Junction 23 of the M8 Motorway just a few 100 meters away.

    Sale Notes:
    The available space comprises an office building suitable for redevelopment purposes. Edmiston House extends to circa 30,000 sq ft of commercial office accommodation, situated within a secure fenced site of 1.27 acres with 94 car parking spaces.

    The property is currently owned and partially occupied by Response (Building, Rewarding, Relationships), who have the flexibility to provide vacant possession in order to facilitate a sale or letting.

    Property suitable for redevelopment.

    Further details are available upon application to the marketing agents.


  14. Should have added, of course, that Response is part of MIH.
    And apologies for copying too much of that page-i meant just to get the ‘Sales Note’ info towards the bottom.


  15. BRTH,

    Thank you for another excellent post, informative and enjoyable as usual.

    As to Edmiston House, I know nothing about the building itself, but wonder why Green would want to buy it, at this stage (can it play football?), and why he would see it as something to get the bears onside (again, can it play football?). Whether or not it comes to pass that he buys it from Murray, what would be it’s purpose? To me it seems a bit like ‘let them eat cake’ for a buisiness that’s trying to pull itself out of the abyss. Is it an attempt to hedge against the obvious questions of ‘what are you going to do with the money you raise from whatever kind of share issue you do’ when they can’t sign players until 2014? Or is it just the kind of business he intends doing with their cash, but he’s trying to make them think it’s what they really want? It’s clear from what was said that no deal has been struck, nor is one actually close to being struck, but it does seem strange ‘good news’ for a football team in the state they are in. If I was a Rangers fan, and thank God I’m not, I’d rather he was displaying proof that what I’m led to believe is Rangers, actually owns Ibrox and Murray Park, before I’d be impressed by the news that my club was buying some office block from the man who got them in the mess in the first place. More smoke and mirrors methinks 😉


  16. Corsica. May i salute you & May your soul rest in peace . Amen.


  17. Re Edmiston House.

    One wonders how much that would cost and how it would be funded.

    Would David Murray for example accept shares in return for the property. I can’t imagine it would be cash or borrowing.

    If I was to bet a shilling or two my money would be on smoke screen.


  18. davis58 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:06
    0 10 Rate This
    Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:03
    Ok so you are right and I am wrong, ~ good man

    So you want us to throw statistics at each other all night and bore the death out of every one. ~ we may been boring everyone, but we weren’t throwing statistics.


  19. Lord Wobbly says:

    September 29, 2012 at 16:37

    davis58 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:06
    0 10 Rate This
    Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:03
    Ok so you are right and I am wrong, ~ good man

    So you want us to throw statistics at each other all night and bore the death out of every one. ~ we may been boring everyone, but we weren’t throwing statistics.

    =====================================
    M’Lud,Just send him your cocktail recipe from Valentine’s Day,that should do the trick.


  20. The passing of Corsica is sad news.

    TSFM, if the passing of Corsica is confirmed – would you consider opening up a separate thread on TSFM, with a selection of Corsica’s posts from RTC re-posted here?

    RTC if you are looking in – a special mention for Corsica in your forthcoming book? I hope you agree that that would be fitting.


  21. TSFM – thanks for confirming the sad news of Corsica’s passing.

    Indeed, Corsica was a valuable contributor on RTC, and was a name to look out for amongst the ever increasing number of daily Comments.

    Will be missed.


  22. Fought the good fight Corsica.

    It’s a sair fecht.


  23. Here is a novel idea and I know what the reaction will be, but.I will put it out there for comments.

    Is it not time that RTC actually revealed who he is and actually publicly brought his facts and arguments into the public domain? ( and I don’t mean the Daily record).

    He obviously has a lot of gravitas to have unearthed the evidence he has and is obvously well connected. Is it because a lot of information unearthed would fall foul of the Data Protection Act, is it because his profession would frown on it, does he fear for his safety, or (wait for the nashing of teeth) is he an employee of Celtic, or is he simply protecting his confidants?.

    There is talk of a book, will he reveal hiself then or never?

    Personally I think he should.


  24. allyjambo says:

    September 29, 2012 at 16:31

    Edmiston House completes the site, and I suppose also removes a potential obstacle to re-development, though I remain a wee bit sceptical there, (it would be a brave, or even courageous Councillor that voted in favour of the demolition of the Big Hoose)

    Corsica was gentlemen, who remained very patient and courteous in spite of having to put up with idiots like me!


  25. As you know, I do not visit Scotland that often outwith an annual holiday and football games so I very, very rarely pick up the Scottish media (prior to this blog I liked to pick up a copy of the Daily Jock to have a laugh but no longer) so I did not really know about Spiers. I have however followed his performances on TV and in print as they have been posted here.
    How can I put it? The man is a self-serving, narcissistic fool – a football writer’s Lloyd Cole if you like (a man so vain that he had a suitcase of books with him when I met him at an after-concert soiree once) or worse still, a football writer’s Pat Nevin (now there is a man who also probably carries around a suitcase full of books – all Penguin, Hachette and Gallimard classics no doubt).
    Spiers’ latest article does not disappoint. I particularly liked the notion that he would have anyone (let alone a famous St Johnstone fan – Cosgrove?) up against a wall. I suspect that our Mr Spiers was exactly the kind of terrified Mummy’s boy who was constantly up against the wall in school. I have no time for bullies but sometimes you have to ask yourself if some people are just so repugnantly full of themselves that they deserve a slap. How many times did it happen, Graham? How many times did the head go down the toilet? How many times was there an unfortunate accident? How many times did the thumb go in the mouth and the teddy get cuddled?
    Spiers states it is pertinent to ask if Regan and Doncaster will survive the political maelstrom five days before the SFL vote. I’ve got news for Graham, both Regan and Doncaster will not survive and I will lay £1,000 on that (you read this blog, we know so just name a charity and they’ll benefit by £1,000 if I am wrong). They will not survive for one very simple reason – they are both incompetent fools who have made the most almighty cock-up. Whatever the outcome, their heads will be served up on silver platters as sacrificial offerings. I know you are only a journalist and don’t understand the workings of business, finance and politics. I do and they will be sacrificed because heads will need to be seen to roll.
    Spiers then states that “Doncaster, the SPL’s chief executive, and Regan, his equivalent at the SFA, have both proved adept, even in this agonised drama, at tip-toeing across the minefield”. No, Graham, what they have been adept at is avoiding going over the top and facing the enemy; they are Captain Blackadder, Lieutenant George and Baldrick combined (although perhaps Longmuir could now take up a part) with Ogilvie and Bannatyne behind the lines as General Melchett and Captain Darling. Not one them has shown a single scrap of leadership in this whole sorry saga. If they had we would not be here, 3 weeks from the start of a new season with so much still up in the air and the very real threat of civil war in the offing. To even equate Regan’s “slow,lingering unrest” and “civil unrest” statements as leadership shows how stupid you really are. Did you think Enoch Powell’s references to rivers of blood was leadership too? What we have had is months (yes, months) of vacillation, ignorance, bullying, intimidation and cowardice.
    Spiers goes on to ask us to imagine that Regan and Doncaster are right. The problem, Graham, is that we can’t because we – the paying customers and shareholders – have been left in a vacuum devoid of any meaningful, realistic and accurate information or data. The one single source of anything approaching verifiable data is this blog and this blog alone.
    Let’s look at some simple facts shall we?
    1. Scottish football will lose out on £16m income per season.
    That is clearly wrong as the BBC will continue to support Scottish football and both Sky and ESPN have made public statements to that effect and (as I have revealed here) a senior executive within Sky has told me personally that the prospect has not even been discussed. It will only happen if every sponsor walks away and no one is willing to broadcast Scottish football. Ridiculous!
    What you fail to understand is that even without Rangers or Sevco, Sky have a very good deal – £8-10m for a product that makes a major contribution to generating some £430m income and fills much-needed airtime. If Sky/ESPN had threatened this, then the SFA and SPL should publish the correspondence/proof because that would have a major impact on Sky’s customer base and bring them back to the table sharpish.
    2. Scottish football is reliant upon TV income.
    Once again, a complete myth. PWC – an internationally recognised firm of accountants and business advisers – publish an annual report on the state of Scottish football finances. The most recent one stated quite clearly “Even before the collapse of Setanta, the SPL was in a unique position compared to the other big leagues such as the Premiership, Ligue 1, Serie A and the Bundeslige, with ticket sales forming the SPL’s most important revenue stream (with TV and radio deals being second and sponsorship taking third place). This means the SPL clubs have been hit relatively harder by the declining attendance levels than other major leagues. Add to this the average 18,277 fewer fans attending their team’s home matches during 2009/10 compared to last season and the average resulting impact wipes £10m off the SPL’s aggregate revenue.”
    That’s right; the experts (as opposed to journalists with no financial or business knowledge and understanding) calculate that the loss of 18,000 fans resulted in a loss of £10m income. So let’s say that Regan and Doncaster are right and we parachute Sevco into anything above SFL3, how many fans will we lose? We lost 18,000 fans in one season due to dwindling interest, an uncompetitive league, and economic circumstances and that cost us £10m. Add in corruption and I would not be surprised if it was 50%. Can you imagine Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Johnstone, St Mirren, ICT losing half their support? What about Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hibernian, Hearts? Celtic even?
    Spiers states that Regan and Doncaster only get one shot at this – and they have to call it right. No, Graham, they had the time and space months ago to commission independent enquiries into the alleged wrong-doing as well as hold discussions with broadcasters and sponsors which would have given them the information required to make a reasoned and accurate analysis of the situation. They could have asked experts to look at the situation and make recommendations on the way forward (which could have protected their own positions). They could have asked the Scottish government (or UEFA) to assist with a recovery plan and an emergency hardship fund.
    Instead, they have sat on their hands, hoping that this would all blow over and their mummies would come and rescue them. Probably much like you at school, Graham; instead of standing up to the bully, they have allowed themselves to be cowed by the bully until it is too late.
    Instead of presenting verifiable facts and figures openly and honestly to ALL stakeholders, they have sowed misinformation, mistrust and deceit.
    Instead of facing the future with a modicum of confidence and a positive plan, they now present to us a cowards’ and a cheats’ charter that will be the death knell of Scottish football.
    Instead of talking up the positives in Scottish football and the evident harmony and agreement amongst all fans outwith RFC, they have given us their Gerald Ratner moment.

    Corsica July 9 2012


  26. Cancer has no friends,Corsica had many,even among people who did not know him.
    Rest in Peace.


  27. jmaclure says:

    September 29, 2012 at 17:15

    Here is a novel idea and I know what the reaction will be, but.I will put it out there for comments.

    Is it not time that RTC actually revealed who he is and actually publicly brought his facts and arguments into the public domain? ( and I don’t mean the Daily record).

    He obviously has a lot of gravitas to have unearthed the evidence he has and is obvously well connected. Is it because a lot of information unearthed would fall foul of the Data Protection Act, is it because his profession would frown on it, does he fear for his safety, or (wait for the nashing of teeth) is he an employee of Celtic, or is he simply protecting his confidants?.

    There is talk of a book, will he reveal hiself then or never?

    Personally I think he should.
    ————————————-

    And be exposed to the most extremist/terrorist elements within Ibrox. Would you expose yourself if you were in RTCs’ position? I think not.


  28. jmaclure says:
    September 29, 2012 at 17:15

    If the simple wearing of a Celtic jersey in Parliament merited death treats and bombs sent in the post by followers of the now defunct rfc1872, do you honestly think it would be wise to reveal his/her identity?
    Get real.


  29. jmaclure says:
    September 29, 2012 at 17:15

    Name names, I demand to know.

    ===========================

    There. I fixed that for you.


  30. Charles Green yesterday, from the minutes of his address to R.T.I.D.N.I Rangers fans in N. Ireland:

    ” 2: Charles then brought up the question of Rangers Shares.
    He explained that Rangers Shares will ONLY be available direct from Rangers F.C.
    They will be sold at first to Rangers Fans and Rangers Fans only, as in Season Ticket Holders registered Supporters Clubs and Members of the Rangers Family.”

    Charles Green today, from article in the Daily Mail:

    “Meanwhile, Green claimed there are potential investors willing to buy more than £1million-worth of shares in the club.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2210337/Charles-Green-cash-battle-oldco-Rangers.html#ixzz27sUk1RIR

    He really doesn’t give a flying one what he says, or to who, does he?! Wonderful stuff…


  31. Presumably, Mr Green is telling the multi-millionaires frothing at the mouth to buy shares in TRFC:
    “Sorry, no can do – you’ll have to wait & see if there are any left over once they’ve been exclusively offered to real Gers fans!”


  32. jmaclure says:
    September 29, 2012 at 17:15

    Here is a novel idea and I know what the reaction will be, but.I will put it out there for comments.

    Is it not time that RTC actually revealed who he is and actually publicly brought his facts and arguments into the public domain? ( and I don’t mean the Daily record).

    1/He obviously has a lot of gravitas to have unearthed the evidence he has.
    2/ is obvously well connected.
    3/Is it because a lot of information unearthed would fall foul of the Data Protection Act,
    4/is it because his profession would frown on it,
    5/does he fear for his safety,
    6/or (wait for the nashing of teeth) is he an employee of Celtic,
    7/or is he simply protecting his confidants?.
    …………………………………………………………………………….
    If you even have to ask those questions then why would you think anyone in their right mind would make themselves known.
    Would it not be better asking why the MSM and former Rangers directors did not bring to public attention much of the same information.
    Much of the information and facts he has “uncovered” have been known to members of the MSM, SFA and Rangers boards of directors for several years.
    Thats where the real story is, with the connection between the SFA, Rangers, David Murray and the MSM..
    In the same post you ask he shows himself you then go on to give the reasons of personal safety, protection of his contacts, concerns who may employ him, whether he is “well connected” etc. as to why he should not.
    Ask yourself in all honesty, if by uncovering the lies and deception in Scottish football you had seriously upset the lunatic fringe of The Rangers support would you risk you and your families safety and welfare by making yourself known.


  33. So only Rangers fans and institutional investors can buy shares in Mr Green’s wee scam?

    Which means he’ll have to issue a prospectus.

    Great stuff!


  34. As a Rangers fan, I also wish to show my respects to Corsica. RIP


  35. jmaclure says:
    September 29, 2012 at 17:15

    Here is a novel idea and I know what the reaction will be, but.I will put it out there for comments.

    Is it not time that RTC actually revealed who he is and actually publicly brought his facts and arguments into the public domain? ( and I don’t mean the Daily record).

    1/He obviously has a lot of gravitas to have unearthed the evidence he has.
    2/ is obvously well connected.
    3/Is it because a lot of information unearthed would fall foul of the Data Protection Act,
    4/is it because his profession would frown on it,
    5/does he fear for his safety,
    6/or (wait for the nashing of teeth) is he an employee of Celtic,
    7/or is he simply protecting his confidants?.
    …………………………………………………………………………….

    Would you like a close up HD mug-shot and details of his whereabouts, his family too?

    I find it amazing that the superiority complex of many RFC fans means they constantly question anyone who tries to point out what has happened or what is happening.

    Here’s a question for you, what is Mr Green going to do with money he raises from the share issue? Is it going to fund the Club for the next 3 years or it going in his sky rocket? After all he only paid between £2.75m & £5.5m for ‘certain assets’.


  36. Was that the (famous) Tommy on “Your call” c18:26 – getting ripped into dual contracts – industrial scale cheating by RFC?

    Whoever it was – its worth listening to again when the podcast comes out.


  37. I don’t think RTC should reveal their identity either, tho, wish they would hurry out with the book.


  38. In Whatever afterlife capacity the bold Corsica now manages to inhabit.It’s sure to be one where he will be pressing and pushing ad infinitum against. Thankfully many more in his long shadow still Lurk.


  39. Invictus
    Out of the night that covers me,
    Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
    I thank whatever gods may be
    For my unconquerable soul.

    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

    Beyond this place of wrath and tears
    Looms but the Horror of the shade,
    And yet the menace of the years
    Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

    It matters not how strait the gate,

    How charged with punishments the scroll.
    I am the master of my fate:
    I am the captain of my soul.

    William Ernest Henley :

    I think this a poem Corsica would have liked.


  40. Just received this from one of Corsica’s associates who doesn’t post, but reads the site;

    I see a few comments on blog regarding Corsica.

    I’m not able to post so could you let people know that I will pass condolences on to his widow.

    If there is a heaven, then I’m sure he’s up there now and would be tickled pink if a “dos equis” or two was raised in his honour tonight. Hopefully everyone will get the reference!

    I have also put together a page where people can leave any messages. Just have a look at the “Corsica” item on the menu bar at the top of the page.


  41. The Corsica news saddens me.

    I applauded his heavy-hitting input, which will not be forgotten.

    Sincerest condolences to his friends and family.


  42. Be careful what you say now, trolls, There is somebody up there watching you …. When you are sitting in your wee dark room fiddling about, occasionally, look over your shoulder just to check, just to be sure. You may not be as alone as you think …. He will never do you any harm but he knows, you know!


  43. Tic 6709 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 16:45
    8 0 Rate This
    Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 16:37
    davis58 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:06
    0 10 Rate This
    Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:03
    Ok so you are right and I am wrong, ~ good man

    So you want us to throw statistics at each other all night and bore the death out of every one. ~ we may been boring everyone, but we weren’t throwing statistics.
    =====================================
    M’Lud, Just send him your cocktail recipe from Valentine’s Day,that should do the trick.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ah yes….an Alpine Glow! Enjoy responsibly.

    UK Chief Medical Officers recommend Adults do not regularly exceed:
    Women 2-3 units
    Men 3-4 units

    http://www.bolscocktails.com/cocktail-detail.asp?d=20737


  44. Question: When this is all done and dusted in Oct/Nov ! Do you believe Regan and Doncaster should survive this? If, we are found guilty, surely these two knew about this in 2010 and they must accept responsibility by allowing Rangers a licence for EUFA 2011 season.


  45. Ranchofranco,

    Can you please take the hint about the gratuitous name-calling and Ulster references in posts?
    That is, don’t post that stuff here please.


  46. Earlier, people on the thread posted ‘live’ about the appearance by Rangers ex-player/erstwhile saviour John Brown on today’s “Off The Ball”, and some pooh poohed the efforts of Cowan & Cosgrove to get information out of him.
    It can be listened to again here:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n0sx5

    I think Mr Brown is extremely candid, and his openness might ring some alarm bells for Rangers/TRFC fans. He starts talking the serious stuff about 40 minutes (there’s an FF button!) in and on 42 minutes says – for me – the most incisive thing, which is:
    “They’re in a rush to get the share flotation in. But they can’t sign players for 14 months, so there’s no need to get the money in.”

    Ie: at worst, Brown thinks that money will simply vanish.
    But, even at best, that money must be necessary for the continued running of the club till the end of the season, something which can clearly not be guaranteed by existing income!

    Now, we all know this on here because excellent financial analyses have been furnished by such as saintinasia. But Rangers fans are not being given this info by anyone.

    Brown – one of their own – explicitly asks Rangers/TRFC fans: shouldn’t you be worried why this guy is in a hurry to get yr money?
    He actually calmly offered his fellow bears some words of sanity today.
    I think some of the ones with a few quid to spare might have listened…


  47. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:04

    =============================

    I’m intrigued, how did they know about it in 2010.


  48. thespecialswon says:
    September 29, 2012 at 18:16

    So only Rangers fans and institutional investors can buy shares in Mr Green’s wee scam?

    Which means he’ll have to issue a prospectus.
    =====
    No institutional investor would touch this with a 40′ bargepole, and Green is well aware of it. There will be no prospectus. This will be a private sale, not a public offering. Members of the “Rangers Family” will receive a letter inviting them to buy £500 blocks of shares in an unlisted, private company which has no accounts and unknown existing owners.

    The luckless investors will probably not even know whether the company they are buying shares in owns Ibrox and Murray Park. Those shares will have no, or limited, voting rights, will be untradeable on any market, and will simply be worthless pieces of paper.

    The share issue will probably raise £10million, which will be used to pay off debt. Only a complete idiot would pay over £500 on those terms. The bears can hardly wait to show the world how loyal (or stupid, depending on your viewpoint) they really are. I think it’s great to watch.


  49. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:04

    ==============================

    That certainly seems to be the way it is going.

    However I suspect some of the money raised will go to the initial investors.


  50. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:04
    0 0 Rate This
    Question: When this is all done and dusted in Oct/Nov ! Do you believe Regan and Doncaster should survive this? If, we are found guilty, surely these two knew about this in 2010 and they must accept responsibility by allowing Rangers a licence for EUFA 2011 season.

    ——————————-

    In Corsica’s post from July, kindly reposted above by dedeideoprofundis, there is a very confident assertion that Regan & Doncaster will end up toast.

    Corsica wasn’t always right, but I’ll trust his call on this one.


  51. neepheid @ 19:13

    I said earlier today, that they would be as well handing Charlie a £500 donation
    The “shares” will be worthless, will have no voting rights, and I can’t see any more than 10k Sevconians buying into it


  52. Agrajag @ 19:12

    I can’t remember where I saw it posted, but someone said HMRC had been talking to SFA/SPL around then


  53. ranchofranco says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:23
    ======================
    That kind of post has no place on this forum, in my opinion. You just hands ammunition to those who want to undermine and destroy it.


  54. Neepheid – you had me laughing out loud there – simply put, it seems surreal that anyone would fall for such a thing but I can imagine 000s of bears falling over themselves to be loyal and set the headlines of the DR the next day…a real GIRUY to Scottish Football and the witchhunt. Meanwhile, Green et al service a debt to whoever owns murray park and the big hoose and pay down the £5.5m loan (plus interest) of the anonymous 20 investors…setting up nicely for a full sale which brings them the big money.

    Chapeau Corsica, in the parlance of RTC blog, I always looked forward to your posts and was sorry you didn’t TUPE. I now know why and best wishes to your family.


  55. How much of their £500 do regular Rangers fans think will go on the park? Most non-Rangers fans have a pretty astute guess.

    Those with a spare £500 will surely be savvy enough to have a think about what they are buying. They must surely see that this is a once-in-a-lifetime oppportunity FOR CHARLES GREEN! This is the only time that any money invested doesn’t have to be realised as players on the park. Due to the transfer embargo, the cash has no immediate place to go to appease the fans, so Green can take his share, divvy the rest up with his “investors” and wash hhis hands of it all.

    Does he need to announce the totals raised? If he doesn’t raise enough to repay Ticketus, do the assets then get sold? Can Charles then say, “the fans didn’t get behind us,there’s nothing I can do”?

    Lots more fun still to be had….


  56. allyjambo says:
    September 29, 2012 at 16:31

    As to Edmiston House, I know nothing about the building itself, but wonder why Green would want to buy it, at this stage …
    ——–
    Was he not warbling on about a “cancer centre” in Ireland? 😉 Biscuit-taker, that one.

    —-
    ranchofranco says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:23

    Watching now the BBC Alba broadcast of Motherwell bare back mountain insouciance against all odds defensively caved-in the routine ball park Shooting in stuff and closeted genius passing game as gifted by Lionised Kenny. F*ck You Traynor,and yer Old lyin’ Mama.
    ——–

    ranchofranco – fit ye on aboot min? I was with you until “bare …”.


  57. Long Time Lurker says:
    September 29, 2012 at 18:29
    8 0 Rate This
    Was that the (famous) Tommy on “Your call” c18:26 – getting ripped into dual contracts – industrial scale cheating by RFC?

    Whoever it was – its worth listening to again when the podcast comes out.
    ————————————

    It just went up:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n0sx9

    If the golf gets any more scary may well give it a listen tonight!


  58. ranchofranco says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:23

    Watching now the BBC Alba broadcast of Motherwell bare back mountain insouciance against all odds defensively caved-in the routine ball park Shooting in stuff and closeted genius passing game as gifted by Lionised Kenny. F*ck You Traynor,and yer Old lyin’ Mama.

    ————————————

    Which chapter of “Finnegan’s Wake” is this a direct quotation from??


  59. I don’t think we will be that stupid to part with our cash after what has happened. Green has made comments, statements that has a lot of our fans smiling and with that attitude ollilogie has stated, but, these are the fans who won’t part with cash as majority are armchair, Internet fans. Real supporters are still wary, we do remember his rants about how many investors, changing Murray park etc….. His share scheme I can guarantee will be scrutinised, and we will wait and see what is on offer and what it’s going to.


  60. Whilst I suppose Bomber is to be applauded for putting his head above the parapet in his criticisms of Charlie and the Shockalot Factory can anyone provide any insight as to Brown’s motivation and connections in all of this ?

    Who is feeding him the info on Ticketus etc ?
    What does Brown get out of risking his neck (bread today , jam tomorrow ?)
    Why doesn’t RTCs sparring partner from yesterday set up a double page spread with der Bomber , y’know , in the interests of balance.

    Finally my condolences on the loss of a respected contributor to this website. I never kknew or met him but I’m sure I would have enjoyed his company had I the opportunity.


  61. For those wishing to ‘out’ RTC I can exclusively reveal (copyright CY) that after much lateral thinking and a few wee snifters that he is in fact….James Traynor! (drum roll + flutes).

    What a wonderful performance he has put up over these past months, if not years, slavishly seeming to support the RFC cause and making outrageous statements with little relationship to facts or past utterances. His sheer inconsistency and rewriting of history – all a pretense to put us off the scent.

    It’s clear now that the BBC were in the know as how otherwise would they have allowed him to continue broadcasting the utter twaddle he has dished up?

    Sure hope RM, etc don’t find out….satisfied now jmaclure et al?

    PS Hope they have Balvenie where you are now, Corsica….RIP


  62. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:59
    0 0 Rate This
    I don’t think we will be that stupid to part with our cash after what has happened. Green has made comments, statements that has a lot of our fans smiling and with that attitude ollilogie has stated, but, these are the fans who won’t part with cash as majority are armchair, Internet fans. Real supporters are still wary, we do remember his rants about how many investors, changing Murray park etc….. His share scheme I can guarantee will be scrutinised, and we will wait and see what is on offer and what it’s going to.

    ===========
    You will be given an ultimatum, buy or the “club” dies

    Simple as that

    BTW did you have shares in Rangers Football Club?

    If so how did it feel to get shafted?


  63. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:59

    I don’t think we will be that stupid to part with our cash after what has happened. Green has made comments, statements that has a lot of our fans smiling and with that attitude ollilogie has stated, but, these are the fans who won’t part with cash as majority are armchair, Internet fans. Real supporters are still wary, we do remember his rants about how many investors, changing Murray park etc….. His share scheme I can guarantee will be scrutinised, and we will wait and see what is on offer and what it’s going to.
    ……………………………………………………………..
    If you have a look on followfollow or rangers media where they have thousands of members, many claiming to be season ticket holders then you will find post after post of “bears” stating they will be buying into Greens plans, they think the man walks on water and any post suggesting anything else is quickly deleted and the poster (as i was ) banned for life!
    I simply copied and pasted some financial facts and info (from here) and within seconds had been bombarded with accustaions of being a timmy (true), peodo scumbag.
    And that site is controlled by Mr DINGWALL, who speaks unopposed for tens of thousands of Rangers fans.


  64. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:59

    I don’t think we will be that stupid to part with our cash after what has happened.
    ——
    Good on you, mate. Unfortunately, I think a great deal of your comrades will think differently, particularly as Mr Charles now knows exactly how to frame things to get a response from the Loyal.

    Meanwhile – decent result for the diddy team today, beating a 10-man Highland League team 1-0. Canna complain at that. 🙂


  65. spanishcelt says:
    September 29, 2012 at 20:10
    6 1 Rate This
    dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:59
    (edit)
    And that site is controlled by Mr DINGWALL, who speaks
    unopposed for tens of thousands of Rangers fans.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The RST has perhaps 1500 members I believe.


  66. Lord Wobbly says:

    September 29, 2012 at 18:47

    Tic 6709 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 16:45
    8 0 Rate This
    Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 16:37
    davis58 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:06
    0 10 Rate This
    Lord Wobbly says:
    September 29, 2012 at 15:03
    Ok so you are right and I am wrong, ~ good man

    So you want us to throw statistics at each other all night and bore the death out of every one. ~ we may been boring everyone, but we weren’t throwing statistics.
    =====================================
    M’Lud, Just send him your cocktail recipe from Valentine’s Day,that should do the trick.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ah yes….an Alpine Glow! Enjoy responsibly.

    UK Chief Medical Officers recommend Adults do not regularly exceed:
    Women 2-3 units
    Men 3-4 units
    =======================================================================

    Your Lordship…I have just posted on the “Corsica” section that I will be enjoying my “Pint Drambuie Shandy” in his honour this evening.

    I do recall being lambasted by your goodself as to my choice of “Valentine’s Day Cocktail” on that 14 February past (seems light years away now!).

    I think it will fit with his sense of humour which we will all miss.

    RIP


  67. I am a member of RM, banned from FF, yes there are lot of Green followers on RM, but, they are the ones with very short memories , over on FF if you disagree with Jaffa you are out, but, RM is a decent place to air your views, and, yes, you will be accused of Taig etc, but I suppose rival fans forums are similar, Gersnet is a good forum with members who like a lot on RM are still wary of Green, but have decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, so far. We will not be conned, as for being sold down the river with our old shares, regrettable, angry , and that’s me being nice, at that twat Whyte ( hope he is jailed for a very long time) we wouldn’t be in this situation if Murray hadn’t sold to him. Old shares, you would do the same for the love of your club, and, yes want to buy shares again, but, VERY wary of Green………..to others, I don’t believe Ticketus are there, no way…..post above, think the Motherwell result midweek was a one off lol.


  68. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 19:59

    I don’t think we will be that stupid to part with our cash after what has happened.
    ======================
    It took Charles a month or two to work it out, but he now understands the mentality of the average Rangers fan better than they do themselves. Every statement he makes has one aim only- get the fans worked up to fever pitch, so that parting with £500 is the absolute least they can do to back “the cause”.

    Green’s visit to Northern Ireland was PR genius. Just watch the money pour in from across the water. And that little trip will have done him no harm at all with large sections of the Scottish support. He knows exactly what buttons to push now, and he’s pushing them faster than an orange walk accordianist. Just watch the bears dance to his tune!

    I still think he’ll find at least 20,000 mug punters. But the way Charles is doing this he can’t go wrong. He will issue as many or as few shares as he can find mugs to buy them. He will hope for £10 million plus, but if it’s less, well owt’s better than nowt, as they say where Charles comes from. Whatever amount he raises, the mugs who provide the money can kiss it sweet goodbye. Their best hope is that it keeps the team playing for a few more months. Then what? The worst outcome for the fans is that Charles & Co cut and run with all the cash.


  69. dl2068 says:
    September 29, 2012 at 20:45

    We will not be conned, as for being sold down the river with our old shares, regrettable, angry , and that’s me being nice, at that twat Whyte ( hope he is jailed for a very long time) we wouldn’t be in this situation if Murray hadn’t sold to him.

    ================================

    David Murray did nothing to pay either the small tax bill or large tax bill.

    He made no contingencies to pay them either.

    Had Rangers not paid it then HMRC would have moved for the company to be wound up.

    Rangers have been moving towards liquidation for a good number of years. David Murray caused it.


  70. Apologies in advance if this has been discussed in detail previously.

    There are lot of posters here who are of the opinion that TRFC is already short of funding! I know that the CVA offer was £8.5m and Green eventually paid D&P £5.5m for assets. So I therefore assume circa £3m potentially in bank of TRFC before a ball is kicked.

    Various breathless press releases have quoted 33k ST sold. At £268 each this gives us just under another £9m (I have not taken into account any junior or concession. This just to give best case scenario)

    So with £12m plus a few cup games to large houses there is a large sum of cash down Ibrox way.

    With a less expensive playing staff wages will be reduced. How much does Ibrox and Murray Park cost to run.D&P’s figures seem to suggest somewhwere in the region of £800k/month.Thats £9.6m. (Does not matter if thats SPL or Div3, ) This leaves £2.4m for wages and running costs

    Are my figures ball park accurate?


  71. Great fun as this is, Why don’t we all buy an ad in the DR, I KNOW !!!! making an offer for shares in a new diddy team @ £500 a pop.
    We have enlisted a Mr A. Daley of London to act as CEO and we have at least 20 Millionaires willing to back this venture. They would rather not let you know who they are just yet. but they are great lads.
    In the meantime, we have world conquering plans based upon exploiting our well known popularity including all sorts of consortiums, shirt selling deals and centres of excellence. ahem.
    The genius of this plan is that not a single reputable flotation company is involved and not one of those terrible Banks will so much as give us a clearing account, let alone an overdraft.
    But don’t worry, they are all Tims.
    Just follow what I say and all will be well. We are in the Vanguard of the squared circle and we know an evil eye when we see one. In the meantime, receipts and framed share certificates may be had (for a small consideration) on application to PO Box 5088 Glasgow, Monaco


  72. dl2068

    Have to disagree, RM is militant in it’s support of Green and get’s more extreme each passing day. Anyone who questions him is shot down, even respected posters with ‘high rep’ are wary of saying anything that would draw attention to themselves.

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