Daft and Dafter

ByTrisidium

Daft and Dafter

It gets dafter and dafter. It is just over a year since the ridiculous and embarrassing – but failed – attempts by those in charge of Scottish Football to blackmail the SFL clubs and force them to parachute the shiny new Rangers into the SFL First Division.

A year where the new era of “transparency” heralded by a huge drum roll, gave way to secret agreements (which were never adhered to); panic-stricken measures to rush through change in the structure of the game without ANY delay or meaningful consultation – despite a hitherto intransigent approach to any kind of change; non-denial denials of the charge that Rangers were given a  football licence without due process.

By the way, the SFA sent an official to an SPL Tribunal with a new convoluted interpretation of a rule which had been used to penalise clubs in the past, and ignored compelling evidence that one club had been economical with the truth on matters regarding banned directors when submitting their application for membership.

I could go on of course, but the incredulity bar is lowered with each ridiculous, contorted and corrupt episode, so that by the time we get to the claims made by several sources that Charles Green was in league with Craig Whyte when he bought some of the old club’s assets, we hardly blink an eye that the SFA appear content to accept the outcome of an internal inquiry ordered by the organisation most likely to be disadvantaged if the claims were true.

Whatever RTC was about, and it was about avarice, corporate malfeasance, theft of public money and the destruction of the integrity of competition in the game, we have moved on from there.

Even if the powers in charge of our game are forced to dispense proper justice in the case of both old Rangers and the new club, there appears to be little prospect that they will have done so because of a Damascene conversion in the ways of sporting integrity, fairness and Corinthianism. They will still be corrupt – just corrupt and bad at it. I am convinced that people have left the game in some numbers this season because of their disgust at the handling of the Rangers fiasco. I see no evidence at all that those people who voted with their feet last year will see a reason to change their tune this time around.

Whatever Rangers were guilty of, there is a general understanding of why they did what they did. They wanted to win – to be the best, and they pushed the envelope as far as they could before tearing the thing up altogether. What they did was 100% in their own self interest. It stinks, but at least it is logical.

What the authorities have done on the other hand is far more gobsmackingly illogical and unintuitive. They have acted in the interest of one club to the continued disadvantage of eleven others (in the case of the SPL, UEFA licences and player registration). They acted against the interests of new aspirants to senior football, and in concert with the interest of just one when they shoehorned Sevco (that’s what they were called then) into the SFL Third Division. I am sure they did that in the belief that a full season of no football at Ibrox would probably kill forever the cash cow that Green and his cohorts were fattening up for slaughter.

Despite the punishment that was accepted by Sevco (the transfer embargo), the SFA have stood by whilst the spirit of that sanction (although admittedly not the letter) was ripped up in their (still silent and impassive) faces as the MSM spun a market day frenzy of transfer activity by a club who were ostensibly proscribed from participating in that market.

Of course there are those who do not want to believe that their club, one of the forty-one good guys, is complicit in this nonsense – and yet ALL of our clubs ARE the SFA or the SPFL. Despite this catalogue of shameful inaction, sabotage and double-dealing, not one voice of dissent emanating from any of our clubs has been heard in print or broadcast media. Instead, huge pay increases and votes of thanks to the bureaucrats who acted out the farce authored by their masters, the clubs.

Is this because they (the clubs) are in agreement with what has transpired? I find it impossible to come to any other conclusion.

There are those who argue compellingly that if clubs, especially those who have a history of rivalry with Rangers tinged with some rancour, were to speak out, the press would have a field day; that allegations of bigotry and Rangers-hating would ensue from the MSM which would wind up the otherwise reasonable chaps who support Rangers.

In my view, if the situation is thus, then we are saying that we all have to keep our thoughts to ourselves, know our place and just take what scraps we get. If fear of violent retribution is the trump card here, then the trick for success in Scottish Football is not to have the most feared football team, but the group of fans which fills others with most dread. That is the death of the game – period.

What crystallises itself for me here is this fear factor. Anonymity has been carefully protected by most of us on this blog for exactly the reasons outlined above. Our desire to remain anonymous has been strengthened by the failure of authority, jointly AND severally, to itself stand up for the sport. The key from day one has been fear. Fear and corruption, which is merely a microcosm of the life in our country.

Whether it’s the media ignoring the wrongdoings of a football club, or a corrupt political system where for £40m donation you can get yourself £400m in tax breaks, we see those with resources pissing all over us from a very prodigious height. And when we do find out about it, we are cautioned to be very afraid of taking any action. Afraid of terrorism, afraid of unemployment, afraid of the mob.

I find myself resigned to the realisation that no matter WHAT evidence is uncovered, it will make absolutely no difference to anyone unless Joe Public keeps his hands in his pockets. People in boardrooms all over the country are betting that football fans are too emotionally invested in their clubs to do so.

The cheats, the spivs and the blazers will in the short and medium term get their own way, many of them aware of the fact that they are not quite as equal as others – and yet happy to go along with that.

We all have to decide whether or not we are as content as they are.

Suspecting as I do that most of us will find that unacceptable, I think there is still a war to be won, even if the battles seem to be going against us time and again. As long as we continue to feel that sense of outrage, that sense of betrayal by the custodians of our sport, we will still be shouting from these pages.

Thanks to the generosity and commitment of our readers, the shouting is about to get louder. We have reached our funding target and we hope to start organising our Podcasts within the next few weeks. The fight goes on, but hopefully it will also have greater reach.

TSFM

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

727 Comments so far

ecobhoyPosted on1:29 pm - Jul 21, 2013


jean7brodie says:
July 21, 2013 at 12:56 pm

ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 12:04 pm
I read ‘cypher’ but immediately thought ‘sphincter’, don’t know why! 🙂
=================================================================

Ouch 😥

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SunincapricornPosted on1:33 pm - Jul 21, 2013


As a Rangers fan… 😕 regardless of the Oldco/Newco debate} which imo will continue to rumble on until a definitive conclusion is determined away from the confines of secular tribal conflict, i find myself questioning the “authority” of the entire authoritarian process throughout football. Yes i am being fully inclusive of SPL/SFA to UEFA all the way to Mr Blatters doorstep at FIFA.
While recognising that my own club is no innocent “Cinderella” it is my considered opinion that our so called “Beautiful game” has been infiltrated and totally degraded by the most hideous quad-ruplet of ugly sisters of any era.
Like most avid football supporters I have followed the Rangers saga with a range of conflicting emotions.
Starting with the obvious one..Denial. Admittedly this emotion was only recognised and eventually accepted through hindsight.
Mr Adam and the warnings from elsewhere were condemned all too readily by a support who were quite happy with their lot. This contentment fuelled mainly by the onfield success was more than enough for the fickle football fan to swat aside any suggestion that the rumours had any basis.
Mr Adam was “Aye Readily” dismissed as a bitter ex employee who had fallen out with the formerly affluent “Sugar daddy” and former chairman,while the references from elsewhere rejected literally as envious indulgement by a “Green eyed monster”
Denial turned to euphoria when Cha.F??? sold out and we heralded the arrival of a new hero with “wealth off the radar”. Everything that has transpired since has thrown up more questions than answers. I include the elements of the work presented by the RTC and the latest revelations of Cha.F.
As a Rangers fan i have tried to seperate emotion and resentment and apply a logical approach to what has transpired since Feb 2011.
I openly admit that for me the logical realignment has only served to add further confusion,and continues to do so on a daily basis. It seems the more research i do,the muddier the waters become. Perhaps this is because i have no mission to complete,or unlike anyone else i am simply missing the blatantly obvious. There is no requirement to repeat the prognosis already recorded by RTC or indeed this site i get that.
I understand the tribal fixation involved. It would be no different if the situation were reversed. However i do consider the obsessiveness at times to be rather overwhelming. I am however fully aware that RFC ordered,delivered and signed for it’s own recorded delivery envelope’s which have clattered through it’s letterbox on a consistent basis. Sadly the recorded delivery envelopes appear now to be outnumbered by an overwhelming excess of Junk mail,again self imposed.
Regardless of the “Spiv” culture associated with the club,i did entertain the thought process that RFC was a legitimate investment opportunity. I say this in absence of the UTTT findings. My earlier reference to continued confusion is compounded by ChaF’s revelations. I am now of the opinion that i have been too accepting of Cha’s purported agenda.
I am finding increasingly difficult to comprehend the logic in his/her end game .
The assumption or tactically planted references to Cha being CW or someone close to him just does not wash any longer for me anyway.
Cha has stated to various people via twitter exchanges and elsewhere that he/she is trying to help Rangers,or “your club”.Where this argument falls down for me is compounded by the content of the latest revelations.
Perhaps there are a few cognitive superior mindset’s to that of my own who can explain the obvious self incriminating and hypocritical versions of Cha’s work.
I refer specifically to the document’s produced recently in reference to Jim Park and CW,and the D&P connection. CW has always denied having contact with anyone. As has CG. So how does Cha producing evidence contradicting earlier statements help CW?
Either i am totally missing a simple significance,or Cha.F is no “friend” of RFC.
There has of course been impliance of forethought that the whole debacle has been a carefully constructed plan from the get go between Charlotte square,CW,CG,and the rest of the parcel of rogues,who continue to have an open recruitment policy with an equally high turnaround in staff. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary i will reserve my judgement until the story either concludes with…JAMES BOND WILL RETURN…Or… THE END.
Whatever the outcome it is obvious to me that whoever Cha.F. is they are not planning a return to Ibrox.
So…Cha, friend or foe? Who will benefit the most? Who will suffer the most? Will we ever be any the wiser?
Why should we care? Well as a Rangers supporter,season ticket holder and shareholder,like many others, i bloody care!
And i want to know who..when…where.. and how any of this embarrassment to Scotland was and has been allowed to take place. RFC and the SPL/SFA are not the only ones who need to give us explanations. Cha you need to convince me.
I’m seeking truth. Get clattering please.

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timtimPosted on1:40 pm - Jul 21, 2013


When Rfc* get a new new coach will they be able to transfer the service history of the old new coach over
as for the cause of the fire my immediate thought was “it was the Sun what did it”

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AllyJamboPosted on1:41 pm - Jul 21, 2013


andy graham says:

July 21, 2013 at 11:51 am

Tried reading the article, but had to stop once the puppet journalist started to say that TRFC ‘deserve’ to win something big. What on earth have they done to deserve anything worthwhile? Does spending more money than all but one of your rivals equate to ‘deserving’? For that is all they’ve done since long before Whyte came on the scene. If some pathetic drunk in a pub, who’d never set foot inside a football ground in his life came away with what Keevins wrote, he’d soon be told where to go, even by many TRFC fans. The man’s a buffoon, and spends his waking hours trying to prove it :slamb:

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on2:20 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 43m

Thick Keevins. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hugh-keevins-rangers-pre-season-training-2071692 … Hint: Here’s a clue as to how the old club managed way beyond their means. http://www.scribd.com/doc/155100674/Rangers-Travel

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on2:22 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes

Jack being insecure. MSM cant publish, need approval from all parties contained within emails.Ownership not an issue.

http://i.imgur.com/rteuxXr.jpg

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yakutsukiPosted on2:49 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Re the torched bus. Don’t bother complaining directly to the :slamb: ‘s*n.’ I tried it years ago and all I got was a cheeky bitch and a whole, brand new set of resentments to deal with.

I got the feeling that she was picking her toenails with a bayonet whilst listening to me with half an ear.
That wee mental image helped me to lose my anger and frustration… and the knowledge that the scottish meeja’s days are well and truly numbered!

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neepheidPosted on3:08 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Sunincapricorn says:
July 21, 2013 at 1:33 pm

Regardless of the “Spiv” culture associated with the club,i did entertain the thought process that RFC was a legitimate investment opportunity. I say this in absence of the UTTT findings.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Great post, but the bit above confused me. Do you mean the “old” RFC, or the new RIFC as an investment opportunity? Because if the latter, the UTTT findings have no relevance at all. The investment potential relies entirely on the properties, given that the football side is a loss maker, and likely to remain so for several years, at least. RIFC will be a splendid investment opportunity if they can hive off the football to someone else. Only SDM and his acolytes will be interested in the UTTT outcome, just in case personal liability orders result. Plus MIH could well be finished if they lose.

As regards Charlotte’s motives, I can’t help you there. Could it be that she genuinely believes that “Rangers” and their supporters are best served by the whole unvarnished truth being brought out into the open? If that’s what she means, I agree entirely. A total aversion to facts is the most worrying aspect of RFC supporter “groupthink” over the course of this saga. Anything that makes them open their eyes, and more importantly their minds, to what has gone on is a good thing, in my opinion.

Anyway, Charlotte has clearly rattled the cage of the sinister, vile and obnoxious Jack Irvine, so from being a sceptic, I’m suddenly a Charlotte fan.

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upthehoopsPosted on3:52 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Sunincapricorn says:
July 21, 2013 at 1:33 pm
==============================
You speak of a Sugar Daddy, emotion and resentment. Firstly I think there is clear evidence Murray was never at any time a Sugar Daddy to Rangers. The Bank of Scotland were though – the same Bank of Scotland that very publicly threatened to put my club out of existence for a paltry amount of debt compared to what Rangers were allowed. That has caused me endless resentment, believe me. Was it institutional bias? Were Rangers simply a plaything for Scottish Bankers? You decide, and that’s where the emotion comes in. It is significant that the well only run dry when non-Scots took over that Bank.

On a wider note I’m amazed that any Rangers fan feels he or she has a right to feel resentful about anything. The goalposts were moved in every direction to accommodate their team since 1986. The Bank of Scotland bought them a nine-in-a-row which doesn’t come close to the achievement of Celtic who had to do it as part of a level paying field, while also reaching two European Cup finals and two other semi-finals.

For all the sins of pre-1986 Rangers Boards and their sectarian policies, it’s doubtful if they would ever have indulged in the underhand way Murray did, and it’s completely unthinkable they would have defaulted on their tax bills.

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redlichtiePosted on4:43 pm - Jul 21, 2013


upthehoops says:
July 21, 2013 at 3:52 pm
The Bank of Scotland bought them a nine-in-a-row which doesn’t come close to the achievement of Celtic who had to do it as part of a level paying field, while also reaching two European Cup finals and two other semi-finals.

——————————————————
A “level paying field”….Freudian or meant? Whatever, certainly true…

Oh, sorry, no sporting advantage is gained by a “non-level paying field”.

Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.

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hampdenhorrorshowPosted on4:47 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Re: Cameron Hay. This is not a ‘new-low’ for the Sun or indeed their parent org. The entire organisation is wholly rotten to the core – I guess it’s the same throughout these industries – however, I cannot think of a circumstance where one single entity carries so much favour, the Sun generally attacks anyone, the royals are even fair game and to be fair and so are politicians from all political parties.

The Sun is indeed a nasty piece of work and could hold it’s own in any gutter level contest and really would walk under a closed door on stilts and wearing a top hat! It is the lowest of the low in respect to integrity and their perception of ‘public interest’ reportage but it is nonetheless a menace to all – well, it is down south – What is peculiar in our part of the world is the influence Media House and Jack Irvine carry with the Sun. Thanks to CF, we can see in black and white exactly what so many suspected for years anyway – But to actually witness the malevolent pact in ‘real life’ ? Well, the only real surprise is just how low Cameron Hay has actually sunk. This really is bad and there will have to be serious redress from Celtic F.C. otherwise many will simply lose faith in the clubs respect and concerns for it’s own fans, that includes me – and I have spent much effort on this forum defending Peter Lawwell from folk that reckon he and CFC should single-handedly tackle the common menace but this is different. It’s a deliberate and calculated attack from a commercial press org on fans of the club for absolutely nothing.

Well – not for absoltely nothing exactly – I suspect it’s got something to do with what’s going on in the world of Charlotte’s twitter account and I also suspect that if there is any material relating to a certain ‘Sir’ then it probably has a certain cretins grubby thumbprints all over it – but well done to the Sun and daddy’s boy Cameron! At last you have managed to make you’re paper completely unsellable amongst not just every Celtic supporter on the planet but also many more from the Scottish football community in general.

If you think Hugh Keevins humiliating – crawling along the carpet on his knees speech in the Daily Record was something, wait to you see what the Sun does when it’s editorial and management realise exactly what that utter idiot Cameron Hay has actually did because I think CFC will want heads to roll over this article. Remember that most CFC fans, and possibly others, will quickly drop their SKY subs if the Sun and it’s parent are percieved to be so pro-Sevco to the point of actually promoting violence against CFC fans. Cameron Hay’s article does exactly that and was no mistake, there are people that would do anything to deflect attention and I said last week CF was violently rattling someones cage, now is the real proof but promoting violence in a city infamous for secterian murders and violence??

CFC should ban the Sun and any of it’s reporters from Celtic Park with immediate effect for a start.

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ecobhoyPosted on5:25 pm - Jul 21, 2013


@Allyjambo
@Auldheid
=========================================
I checked and SFA Article 5.1 isn’t specifically mentioned in LNS but 5.1(b) is although the LNS Decision at [33] states: ‘It can be seen from these provisions that every member of the SPL, being also a member of the SFA, is bound by a nexus of provisions having contractual effect to comply with the Articles and Rules of each body, and is liable to sanction for any breach of either at the instance of the SPL.’

So there can be no arguments against: “All members shall observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play”.

There is also an interesting bit of ‘player eligibility’ which if I ever previously noticed I forgot about but I don’t think I have seen it recorded other than in the LNS Decision. Basically there were three periods of registration document non-disclosure which Rangers were found guilty of:

Issue 1: period from 23 November 2000 to 21 May 2002
Issue 2: period from 22 May 2002 to 22 May 2005
Issue 3: period from 23 May 2005 to 3 May 2011

Additionally Issue 3(c) alleges that during the period from 23 May 2005 until 3 May 2011 (inclusive) Rangers FC, whilst a member of the SPL, breached Rule D1.11 by playing the Specified Players in lists 3A and 3B in official matches when those players were ineligible so to play.

At LNS [85] In addressing us on Issue 3(c), Mr McKenzie sought to include a reference to period 2
. . . . No notice is given in the Notice of Commission of any comparable allegation relating to any earlier period, and for this reason we are not prepared to consider this part of the argument.

We then had the Bryson ‘interpretation’ which went unchallenged but what I had never really appreciated the significance of before was the following comment from LNS: ‘It became apparent from his submissions that Mr McKenzie was not pressing for a finding that Issue 3(c), together with the concluding words of Issue 3(b), had been proved.’

My reading of what happened is the SPL case was poor whereby there seemingly wasn’t any claim or evidence that ineligible players were used by Rangers FC in the periods covered by Issues 1 & 2 and the claim initially pursued in this regard by McKenzie wrt to Issue 3(c) 23 May 2005 to 3 may 2011 was dropped by the SPL lawyer.

I really never fully realised just how weak the SPL claim apparently was on ‘ineligible’ players and thought it was almost 100% down to the Bryson interpretation which left LNS no option but to reject the SPL ineligibility claim – now I have actually looked at it in detail it looks as though it was struggling even without Bryson.

So where do we go – I think Auldheid and Allyjambo have a ‘technical’ point that if the UTT found in favour of HMRC then there is a second bite of the cherry available under SFA Article 5.1 which doesn’t need to get tied-up in eligibility or disclosure details. If Rangers are found guilty of cheating Hector and breaking tax regulations then the club could never be held to have fulfilled the required standard: “All members shall observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play”.

But then there could be a further delay with another appeal to the Supreme Court – so when do we reach the point when natural justice is no longer being served by proceedings – say five years down the line – which are then almost 20 years after the original breaches happened.

That is a whole other ball game and I ain’t going there 😮

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AllyJamboPosted on5:55 pm - Jul 21, 2013


I wonder who actually wrote, or at least set out the content, of the two ‘newspaper’ articles we’ve been discussing today. One a pathetic sycophantic load of garbage, the other a quite dangerous piece of (indirect) finger pointing while reporting on a criminal act. Both seem to me to have one purpose, and that is to deflect from the deep seated problems at Ibrox, placating the supporters by a) suggesting TRFC are in a very secure financial position, without producing anything to actually justify this clear statement, and b) stir up resentment within their ranks (while ignoring their inbred desire for revenge) against the timeless enemy by suggesting, again without anything factual, that they have made a concerted attack on a Rangers’ sacred cow. This will not only deflect the supporters attention but also the rest of the media who would much rather chase a vandalism story rather than the more complex, but high end, apparent (for the meantime) conspiracies between our footballing authorities and the establishment club. That the stories should be published by two separate, but Rangers orientated, papers, at the same time, suggests a concerted exercise by someone from within Ibrox. I wonder who?

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Greenock JackPosted on6:08 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Sunincapricorn

What do you make of the role, actions and results of Media House since they were introduced at Ibrox.

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Danish PastryPosted on7:46 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Odd that still no one is printing the CF leaks, and even odder that the media is now going after the club from the East End and its supporters – or is it?

Just a coincidence that it is said club’s fans who are perceived as being in the forefront of the fight for truth and justice?

Was the DoS attack on this blog related to the source of the stories – or the type of stories – in the Sundays? Does make you wonder. If CF’s portrayal of Mr Irvine and his paid-up propagandists is true then their days of media manipulation and lies are surely numbered.

Even J. Edgar Hoover in all his pomp thought he was safe because he had the dirt on everyone. Now his own secrets are out and his lasting legacy is as a perverse figure, scorned and ridiculed. Truth will out.

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Greenock JackPosted on8:13 pm - Jul 21, 2013


DP
Odd that still no one is printing the CF leaks, and even odder that the media is now going after the club from the East End and its supporters – or is it?

Just a coincidence that it is said club’s fans who are perceived as being in the forefront of the fight for truth and justice?
———————————————–

Why is Alex Thomson not using CF material ? Is he part of the conspiracy you paint ?

Are you referring to Celtic supporters and their bad behaviour at Brentford ?
A Celtic supporter on here ‘torrejohnbhoy’ last night @ 10:10 spoke of their bad behavior.
ie. it happened. Would you rather the press said nothing, swept it under a carpet ? It´s just I thought this blog was trying to stamp out that type of reporting.

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Danish PastryPosted on8:57 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Well Jack, I was actually thinking about the bus depot fire report with photos of Celtic supporters just under. Is it a conspiracy? I don’t know. I have an enquiring mind. I said ‘if’ CF’s portrayal is true. After all, we’ve just seen documents that encourage media assets to promote negative stories about football clubs on behalf of another. I mean if that’s true …

Regarding Brentford, why rely on second-hand reports? You can check their fan forum here:

http://www.griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105686&page=76

From what I’ve read of first-hand accounts they sort of kill off the argument for allowing a wider sale of alcohol at football grounds. Drunks at football matches are a huge pain in the arse and one of the reasons I gave up on Glasgow football in my youth. I was in Malmö to watch Hibs the other night. Saw NO overt drunkeness. I’m sure that’s partly due to Sweden having very restrictive control of the sale of alcohol, not to mention the high prices. Alcohol pricing, and easy access to it, is a whole other debate outwith this forum, but large numbers of boozed out fans are an incident waiting to happen. I would expect Celtic will do something about it and recompense Brentford for any damage caused by their supporters. That said, not all the first-hand accounts seem to paint the same bleak picture of mass anti-social behavior.

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AuldheidPosted on9:11 pm - Jul 21, 2013


ecobhoy says:

July 21, 2013 at 5:25 pm

Many thanks for having a look. Natural justice sometimes finds its way through the most obscure legal drafting/considerations and it was on that basis I thought the door was not shut.

You are going to love this but in mentioning the earlier periods on which I had never really focussed is it not the case that the players covered by the Discount Option Scheme (the wee tax case) were paid by an irregular means that avoided tax, the payment of which has still not been recovered and so any titles won if they played in that time and were paid by the DoS should be examined for legitimacy?

The three players are Craig Moore, Tor Andre Flo and Ronald De Boer. It loks like Moore was only paid bu DoS in 1999/2000 and whilst he was at Rangers until 2005 only 1999/2000 is irregular. Not sure if this calls the 1999 title into question, it would depend on actual dates of games Moore played in..

Tor Andre Flo was at Rangers from 2000 to 2002 and was paid by DoS but no titles were won (although the third placed teams may have a case they were disadvantaged).

However Ronald De Boer was at Rangers from 2000 to 2004 and was paid by DoS in that period so the 02/03 title might be questionable if the principle is that the DoS was an irregular payment method not open to other clubs. It had the same hallmarks as the EBTs in terms of side letters whose existence Rangers denied when asked.

In looking at the earlier period 2000 to 2004 what did LNS rule? Did he treat the DoS payments as regular?

Regardless of the UTT result on EBTs do you think there is an issue with the 2002/03 title Rangers won using DOS?

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valentinesclownPosted on9:16 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Jack Irvine has no shame. He is only in shock that times have changed in the social media and the Internet Bampots have a voice and are able to challenge his views with different opinions and ultimately shown him for what he really is and that is,a charlatan of a man under someone’s control fighting to safe a dying breed in Salmond’s words, ” within the fabric of our society”. Gone are the days when Jack and his puppets could just print anything and it not to be challenged.
The Sun is going down and come the day it does not see another sunrise will be a step forward for proper journalism. CF has got him running with his own paper chase and Jack the lad is not feeling so cocky.

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Greenock JackPosted on9:30 pm - Jul 21, 2013


DP
When I talked of conspiracy I referred more to your first line about Charlotte.

I didn´t see the report in The Sun so can´t really comment and as far as responsibility for the fire is concerned, it´s best left in the investigator´s hands rather than speculate.
Would a tabloid be capable of stoking controversy between Rangers and Celtic supporters without a care for consequences other than revenue ? That is easy, yes.

Drink didn´t seem to help the situation at Brentford yesterday and I tend to agree it wouldn´t be a good idea for it to be brought directly into Scottish football.

You were in Malmo, I thought you´d have been in Norway. 🙂

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jean7brodiePosted on9:33 pm - Jul 21, 2013


valentinesclown says:
July 21, 2013 at 9:24 pm
Worth seeing twice 🙂

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jean7brodiePosted on9:36 pm - Jul 21, 2013


Apparently there is a witness to the bus torching incident.
@ScottishPolice pic.twitter.com/uiaaRUcnCy 🙄

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CastofThousandsPosted on11:59 pm - Jul 21, 2013


ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 7:28 pm

“As far as LNS was concerned whether tax was due on the money or not the payments should have been declared under football rules and because Rangers didn’t declare it they were found guilty of failure to do so and fined for the breach. ”
——————————-
As I seen in an earlier post, the fine should be proportionate with the advantage gained in perpetrating the misdemeanour. If the EBT scheme is legal and was therefore open for use by all clubs at the time then the fine appears proportionate. It is the fine for not properly documenting players registration.

If it transpires post UTT that the payment scheme was ‘irregular’, then it was not freely open for other clubs to take advantage of. In fact it is greatly to the credit of Rangers competitor clubs that they did not go down the same risky avenue. For if they had even more tax revenue would have went uncollected.

Therefore does the question of ‘sporting advantage’ not rest on whether the EBT scheme was legal and whether it was freely open for use by other clubs. If other clubs could not freely enhance their players wages then they are at a disadvantage compared to those that choose to adopt this tactic.

The proportionate fine for this infringement would surely be in excess of £250,000. If £30M of player income escaped taxation then that is £30M worth of labour that was deployed in an irregular manner. The distortion that this would create in the football market would greatly affect recruitment of players for instance. That extra money could amount to an awful lot of achievement that would not have been gained without adopting said tactic.

There are issues with timing of when the EBT payment scheme became, if it is, illegal. I think the same principle applies even if the monetary sums are less.

The legal interpretations may suggest other mechanisms that provide remedy but from a common sense point of view the principle of proportionality should be upheld. The LNS enquiry had to make a decision based on the information available and at the time they had a majority verdict from the FTT finding that the Rangers EBT scheme was not illegal, effectively. So setting nuances aside, LNS decision made sense because the payments were not irregular. However I think that if it is found otherwise, bampots, if no-one else, will be asking questions.

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SunincapricornPosted on12:16 am - Jul 22, 2013


Greenockjack – July 21, 2013 at 6:08pm.

If Cha’s material is to be accepted as genuine then Jack Irvine is a total… person.
I would hope that he is pursued for any misuse of media manipulation techniques that fall within the remit of our legal system.
However is it possible to use this material while CF remains anonymous?
If not what is the point?
My post was mainly to question CF’s end game strategy and wondering whether Cha is friend or foe to CW or friend or foe to “Agent “Whyte. If yo u catch my drift? In consideration of Cha being duplicitous to both sides of the debate under the banner of integrity , then he is defo not aligned to Mr Whyte. Again if the material is genuine and Cha is working on behalf of TBK’s for example then fine all power to Cha’s elbow if we get the facts which implicates the main players. What I am not comfortable with is the possibility of a friend of the former tax blog working against my club in a similar but reverse strategy to that of Jack Irvine. Individuals on here may have an advantage over me in relation to further knowledge regarding CF or various subject’s,however I will persist in wondering aloud. I am a curious person but I want the right answers for the right reasons. I want the perpetrators of the financial rape of my football club and Scottish football as a whole pursued and punished for their actions. What I will not support is a continuation of the drive for my club’s total extinction served purely by religous bias and hatred. On that basis it is important to me what CF’s end game consists of.

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bad capt madmanPosted on12:42 am - Jul 22, 2013


Sunincapricorn’s post prompted me to ponder on what I want out of this whole mess. As an Aberdeen fan, its not a religious hatred (church of scotland brought up), but a deep resentment that one club cheated and manipulated for decades, supported it seems by a whole raft of people and agencies that are supposed to be neutral, fair and “professional” in carrying out their duties regardless of their personal preferences.
RFC is in the process of liquidation so i belief them to be a deid club, and therefore cant really expect much further punishment. This does not let some individuals off the hook. The “controlling minds”, if you will, must be brought to account for a variety of abuses. That is what i want.
The position of TRFC though continues to be confused with RFC, particularly by more “controlling minds”. If this wasn’t the case id not be too bothered about them either way, but the continual attempt to defy reality and the machinations of the spivs and SFA galloots brings them all into my sights because they want to be RFC, as CG, D&P, etc tried to persuade us that D&P actually did sell RFC to Sevco.
Therefore as long as TRFC is being treated as RFC, so will TRFC be tainted by the actions of RFC. Thats the effect of the ‘history’ package for you.
What I want therefore is some justice and a clear out of the SFA to ensure there are no more favours or fears.
Its not religious hatred, its humanitarian justice that motivates my continued if morbid interest in this mess.
I suspect this is shared by most of us here.
Unfortunately in the aftermath of the investigations into the RFC scandals by bampots and others we’ve seen just how corrupt and ugly things have been and continue to be in this wee country where self interest and god knows what other motives have trumped fairness and probity. (Yep, I include the Mr Trump business in this too, Mr Salmond! Haha).

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Drew PeacockPosted on12:58 am - Jul 22, 2013


Castofthousands says:
July 21, 2013 at 11:59 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
EBT’s were legal so long as one did not operate them in the manner RFC did. HMRC changed the legislation some time after after the MIH/RFC one was set up because widespread abuse of the tax system.

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Drew PeacockPosted on1:10 am - Jul 22, 2013


Social capital is a great thing when you control it.

Jack gets favours from Hay McKerron to plant negative stories against other clubs (mainly Celtic but not exclusively so) in the furtherance of Rangers “policy”. Why that “policy” is not regarded as bringing the game into disrepute is beyond me.

Young Cameron Hay gets a job at News International where Jack used to be a big shot and knows where the bodies are buried as regards the Editor etc there. Favour returned. Lovely jubbly all is well in Bearsden.

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john clarkePosted on1:55 am - Jul 22, 2013


bad capt madman says:
July 22, 2013 at 12:42 am

‘…Therefore as long as TRFC is being treated as RFC, so will TRFC be tainted by the actions of RFC. Thats the effect of the ‘history’ package for you.
What I want therefore is some justice and a clear out of the SFA to ensure there are no more favours or fears..’
——
Exactly.
And you have summed up in a few words the very essence of what this blog is about: the incredible ‘institutional’ bias of the Footballing Authorities in favour of one club.

The reasons for this bias may or may not be rooted in religious sectarianism or racism.

But the fact is that the bias was towards ensuring that , without regard to race , religion, or any notion of fair play, one particular club had- HAD!-, to be specially catered to and catered for..

The evidence is, and has been season after season, all around us, and is most clearly seen in the disgraceful actions taken by the SFA to subvert their own rules to save their favoured institution.

The sick man of European football has been the SFA. and the historic, in-built connection between it and RFC(IL) and the continuing , current connection with RIFC.

It might be that one particular club has suffered more from bias than any other, but it is certainly the case that every other club in the country has been ill-served as a result of that in-built connection.

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Sugar DaddyPosted on1:58 am - Jul 22, 2013


ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 7:28 pm

Echo

My point is that SPL/SFA & no doubt the SPFL cannot hide behind the LNS decision should the UTTT go against MIH and by association RFC(IL).

As you point out Bryson’s position and the basis for LNS’ ruling would have been swept aside had LNS sat in judgement of illegal activities. Of course at the time of his decision he was not.

Asking the questions the MSM wont ask. This is what I’m doing.

What will be the position of Scottish football authorities should the UTTT rule in favour of HMRC?

The LNS decision is not tenable in these circumstance, therefore what contingency plans are in place?

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Drew PeacockPosted on2:09 am - Jul 22, 2013


Sugar Daddy says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:58 am

What will be the position of Scottish football authorities should the UTTT rule in favour of HMRC?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m going to take a wild guess and say – business as usual.

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A Gingerbearded manPosted on3:26 am - Jul 22, 2013


bad capt madman says:
July 22, 2013 at 12:42 am
‘…Therefore as long as TRFC is being treated as RFC, so will TRFC be tainted by the actions of RFC. Thats the effect of the ‘history’ package for you.
What I want therefore is some justice and a clear out of the SFA to ensure there are no more favours or fears..’
——
john clarke says:
Exactly.
And you have summed up in a few words the very essence of what this blog is about: the incredible ‘institutional’ bias of the Footballing Authorities in favour of one club.

Thank you bad capt madman, you have as John Clarke said summed up what this blog is about and why I have followed this and the RTC blogs for so long.

I am a lapsed Hearts fan living in NZ for the past 8 years and I have been taking an ever declining interest in the Scottish game as it has appears to me since my youth been slanted towards Rangers (il). This blog and its many inquisitive bloggers have given me hope that Scottish football can reinvent it’s self to become a game that a new generation will want to go see in their droves. If you think our generation has become disenfranchised then what chance is there the next will take an interest, it will not belong until the grounds become empty.

I hope the Thistle can be grasped and our national game becomes source of pride for all of Scotland.

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kitalbaPosted on4:39 am - Jul 22, 2013


An article by Angela Haggerty which includes screen dumps of the Sun ‘arson’ story with the pictures of Celtic embedded within the article.

The Scottish Sun, Thugs n Thieves, Celtic FC and a better standard of journalism

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saskya1888Posted on6:02 am - Jul 22, 2013


bad capt madman says:
July 22, 2013 at 12:42 am

Excellent post, well said!

Just had a look at CF latest input re finances in Feb 2011.
Noticed on page 4 of the detailed run down, an outstanding payment due to Noble Grossart Ltd for immediate payment for the sum of £18612.00.
This is for work billed on 16-05-2011 recharge MIH Project Charlotte.
And some say there was no collusion????

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Danish PastryPosted on6:17 am - Jul 22, 2013


http://www.hay-mckerron.co.uk/default.html

If this is the company used by Mr Irvine during the CW/RFC period, I wonder how the other clients of the company feel about that and the methods used? Interesting that it is the two docs relating to this company and Irvine that Levy & McCrae got removed from from CF’s scribd site.

PS A very naughty person created this screenshot of part of what was removed #thecatsootthebag
https://mobile.twitter.com/eamonolenin/status/358361059427487745/photo/1

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neepheidPosted on10:19 am - Jul 22, 2013


Sugar Daddy says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:58 am

What will be the position of Scottish football authorities should the UTTT rule in favour of HMRC?

The LNS decision is not tenable in these circumstance, therefore what contingency plans are in place?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The contingency plan is quite straightforward. There is a big thick carpet in the President’s room at Hampden. One corner of that carpet shows signs of having been frequently lifted in recent years,. A top quality brush, probably with a gold-plated handle, leans against the wall in that same corner. If anything troublesome arrives on the President’s desk, the corner of the carpet is lifted, and the troublesome item carefully swept under it. That is what will happen to the UTTT decision, should it contain anything which could inconvenience the blazers. Should the result be favourable to the blazers’ pet team, expect a glowing valedictory press release.

Such are the ways of the world’s greatest football administrator. We lesser mortals can only gaze in wonder, all the while giving thanks to heaven for gifting this paragon to our poor wee undeserving nation. What state would our game be in without him? We may find out in just under two years time, unless of course the rules can be changed before then to abolish the silly rule that allows the President only two terms. Four years is simply not enough, when you have the best in the world available and willing to serve. As we have recently seen, the election won’t be a problem, since there is the same level of adoration and respect for our “Dear Leader” as the North Koreans have for their theirs. Anybody betting against such a rule change?

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AuldheidPosted on11:12 am - Jul 22, 2013


Can anyone put a date on this by Neil Doncaster?

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s109

Did it pre date LNS and if so what is the SP(F)L position now on the matter? Has Doncaster been trumped by LNS or have SPL and SFA simply twisted themselves in knots?

And whatever happened to the review of finance rules mentioned?

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FIFAPosted on11:14 am - Jul 22, 2013


Test

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AuldheidPosted on11:15 am - Jul 22, 2013


Having re read Doncaster’s statement at the link it would seem that the SPL lawyer was not briefed by Doncaster and in fact LNS has negated Doncaster’s statement.

The problem both the SFA and SPL have created through LNS is to undermine basic sporting integrity principles. Are (as Ecobhoy has asked) the registration rules to be re written for example to reflect the Bryson interpretation? No chance as FIFA would point out their absurdity.

Have the SPL met as a Board and formally decided to accept LNS? Not to my knowledge because the UTT and Article 5.1 (DOS notwithstanding) would make SPL/SPFL position, if LNS accepted as last word, untenable.

Have the SPL met to discuss tightening of their finance rules? If so why not tell us, it would be a form of reassurance that lessons had been learned.

What we have now is a governance vacuum at SFA and SPFL that is not beyond the wit of either to fill as Doncaster’s statement has demostrated, but certainly looks beyond their willingness and courage to do so.

In doing what they all did to rescue Rangers they have undermined the existence of the very industry that they all depend on for a living. By acting as if none of what we know to have happened, has happened they treat us like fools and anger at that simply will not go away.

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SouthoftheborderPosted on11:32 am - Jul 22, 2013


Auldheid says:
Can anyone put a date on this by Neil Doncaster?
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s109

16th March 2012
http://web.archive.org/web/20120316031809/http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s109

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wottpiPosted on11:48 am - Jul 22, 2013


Had log in problems so this is a few days old as it related to Craiog Mather’s piece printed towards the end of last week but thought I’d post it anywaybeing I had it typed out 🙂

So despite everything that has gone on down Govan way over the last few years the MSM continue to regurgitate what is basically a press release from Ibrox.

Still no deeper questions with regard to what is being said.

Therefore as this sites tag line suggests here are some questions our journos may want to ask.

Mr Mather, you say that in relation to more signings you want to be sure you get the right man for the long term. Given that your manager and his assistants appear to be keen on a 33 year old strikers and a 34 year old keeper are you, as CEO and Mr McCoist really on the same page of the hymn sheet
Mr Mather you say that the wage bill is down from last year’s despite seven new signings. Can you tell us in percentage terms how much lower?
Clearly a saving has been made by the departures of Alexander and Sandaza.
However while that saving may have been passed to pay the wages of the seven new current signings is it not the case that existing player’s salaries may have increased?
I base that question of what we know of Sandaza’s contract that included incremental pay rises presumably negotiated under the Charles Green era.
Is it the case that other players such as Black and Shiels will be on similar contracts?
Is it the case that all the youngsters publicised as being put on long term contracts last season will most likely also have an incremental pay rise of each season they are retained?
Examining Wikipedia it appears that the vast majority of players are on contracts for a few years.
Therefore who is going to be moving on and where to?
What mechanism is in their contracts for the club to sell them and are you sure the any monies brought in will balance out the club’s need to honour the existing contract.
In calculating this years and last year’s wage bill how are you dealing with Bocanegra and Goian being their wages were presumably being played by the clubs they were loaned out to?
Are you adding their wages to last year’s total even though others were paying them?
If there is a saving being made in players wages is it enough to offset the reported excess cash burn of around £1m per month or £12m per year.
Lastly please please gonna tell us how much of the IPO money is left 😆

Update – Is it really your pal Charlie who is dumping his shares? !!!!

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FIFAPosted on12:06 pm - Jul 22, 2013


I am intrigued as to why Rangers biggest purchase of the close season was left at home ,you would have thought this was an ideal oppertunity to parade this purchase and let foreign fans drool over this modern day wonder,also its cheaper to fill the bus up over on tour.

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Sugar DaddyPosted on12:11 pm - Jul 22, 2013


neepheid says:
July 22, 2013 at 10:19 am

TSFM, if this indeed is what will happen, might I suggest a PR stunt involving a large piece of flooring material and some domestic sweeping instruments be placed at the door of Hampden with appropriate photographs sent to the MSM.

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briggsbhoyPosted on12:16 pm - Jul 22, 2013


As a share holder for many years in the company Thomas Cook and having noted the losses they incurred with RFC (IL) from details provide by CF I’m wondering if I should be raising an issue with them ! what’s the opinion ?

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john clarkePosted on12:17 pm - Jul 22, 2013


By the way, has anyone ‘seen, heard, or received any money from’* Lord Wobbly in recent times?
I miss his posts.
* old workplace tag

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FIFAPosted on12:22 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Neepheid/sugardaddy
Its the new Dyson filing system

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redlichtiePosted on12:22 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Sugar Daddy says:
July
neepheid says:
July 22, 2013 at 10:19 am

TSFM, if this indeed is what will happen, might I suggest a PR stunt involving a large piece of flooring material and some domestic sweeping instruments be placed at the door of Hampden with appropriate photographs sent to the MSM.
——————————————————————————
Oh a billboard with a big expanse of carpet nailed to it and with a big lump in the middle would be a beautiful sight!

‘The SFA Carpet’

Scottish football needs experts carpet (p)layers….

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EKBhoyPosted on12:24 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Test log in

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TSFMPosted on12:24 pm - Jul 22, 2013


john clarke says:

July 22, 2013 at 12:17 pm
_____________________________________________

Not heard from LW since the school holidays began. In fact the final bell of the 2012-13 session has heralded a significant downturn in age views on this site as well. Since downturn has occurred on posts AFTER 3.30pm. might we infer a robust cohort of schoolteachers here?

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tic6709Posted on12:26 pm - Jul 22, 2013


john clarke says:

July 22, 2013 at 12:17 pm

By the way, has anyone ‘seen, heard, or received any money from’* Lord Wobbly in recent times?
I miss his posts.
* old workplace tag.
===============================
And Essex , Slim, Scapa, Goosy,Para Handy,Barcabhoy,and a few others whose opinions I really looked forward to.

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ianjsPosted on12:31 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Southoftheborder says:
July 22, 2013 at 11:32 am

Auldheid says:
Can anyone put a date on this by Neil Doncaster?
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s109
16th March 2012
http://web.archive.org/web/20120316031809/http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s109

Or This? Published on March 2nd, 2012 by Scotzine

http://www.scotzine.com/2012/03/neil-doncaster-it-is-vital-that-clubs-live-within-their-means/

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ecobhoyPosted on12:33 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Auldheid says:
July 21, 2013 at 9:11 pm
ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 5:25 pm

Many thanks for having a look. Natural justice sometimes finds its way through the most obscure legal drafting/considerations and it was on that basis I thought the door was not shut.
=============================================================================

I agree with you that sometimes natural justice does find a way but it often requires a popular cause and an active pressure group especially if there is no appetite to rake over the coals from whatever authorities are in charge. I don’t see any re-run of LNS as being useful and I believe what’s done is done there although there is obviously unfinished business on the Bryson ‘Interpretation’.

But I like the simplicity and power of SFA Article 5.1 as a possible future way forward dependent on the final outcome of the various appeals. As I mentioned earlier there is a further issue to do with natural justice in the length of time this determination can be ‘parked’ and the fact that by then the liquidation of the original operating company will be complete.

A further complication arises in that the newco operating company has already been legally declared as innocent of any liability for what went before and that cannot be altered. So it would appear to me that the only possible defendant would be ‘Rangers FC’ which of course gives rise to what many on here – and I have reason to know this – would regard as an anathema viz the continuing club concept. However if there is no continuing club in an unbroken line then who is the ‘member’ who has breached Article 5.1 and does it still exist?

It appears to me that LNS who has been much derided over the ‘continuing club’ concept does provide the only answer I can think of off the top of my head. But would that be an acceptable basis on which to proceed for those who would wish to pursue/continue this matter. An interesting conundrum 🙂

But back to the DoS points you have raised and I must confess I know next to nothing about the DoS. However you state that the payments under this were ‘irregular’ meaning I assume that tax was avoided through breaching tax legislation. I don’t know if that is the case and would be happy for any info/citation for that.

I believe that the DoS case was settled/agreed but am unclear as to whether the issue was to do with interpretation of tax laws rather than a breach of them and point to the Juninho situation at Celtic that because unpaid tax is subsequently paid/agreed following discussions with HMRC that does not necessarily make the original payments ‘irregular’. The main thing about the DoS (Wee Tax Case) IMO is the failure to actually pay the agreed settlement figure and its role leading to Rangers’ administration – but that is another issue.

LNS does provide some assistance in that More, Flo and De Boer are named in either List 1A or 1B which covers the period of Issue 1 – 23 November 2000 to 21 May 2002 and Flo and De Boer are named in List 2A or 2B which covers the period of Issue 2 – 22 May 2002 to 22 May 2005.

LNS at [35] states: ‘By deed dated 20 April 2001 MGM set up the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust (the MGMRT). (We note that the MGMRT was preceded by the Rangers Employee Benefit Trust, but we are not aware that they were different trusts. We shall treat them as a continuous trust’. I don’t know whether the REBT covers the DoS or not but the LNS definition of EBTs appears wide enough to accommodate the DoS.

The SPL did not claim or provide any evidence to LNS that ineligible players were played in Periods 1 & 2 but did claim that this was the case in Period 3 – 23 May 2005 to 3 May 2011. A late attempt by SPL lawyer Rod McKenzie was made before LNS to include a claim of ‘ineligible’ players in Periods 1 & 2 which was rejected by LNS – rightly so IMO – as it is just another chapter in the litany of poor poor preparation of the SPL case. Then when it came to his summing-up McKenzie didn’t even ask for LNS to accept the SPL argument that ineligible players were used in Period 3 – he just dropped the issue although tbf this was after he had offered no objection to the Bryson ‘Interpretation’.

Dealing with some of the specifics you raise and accepting the LNS Decision as is then LNS did not find that any of the payments made to players were unlawful and this was agreed by the SPL in their evidence as they accepted the FTTT Decision and did not qualify their position with regard to a successful UTT Appeal by HMRC – that effectively IMO totally closes any resurrection of the LNS Tribunal but doesn’t IMO necessarily rule-out an Article 5.1 approach.

Wrt to the 2002/03 title I can only say it seems to me that no irregular/unlawful payments were made to Rangers players and this was given as evidence by the SPL to LNS and the SPL presented no ‘real’ argument that ineligible players were used at any time from November 2000 to May 2011 and in the final analysis didn’t even ask for this to be considered – for Period 3 – when McKenzie the SPL lawyer summed-up.

For good or bad the LNS Decision is what it is and will never be altered IMO and I have seen little evidence that it should mainly because of the terrible case prepared and presented by the SPL. LNS made it clear that SPL were responsible for framing the complaint and it was up to them to provide the evidence to support their case.

Btw in saying LNS is closed I exclude the Bryson kettle of fish which leaves a nasty stink in the air for me. Who knows what might have happened if his ‘interpretation’ had been what everyone else in football appears to have believed was the meaning and intention of the registration rules.

But why did the SPL not know that was his position – did they never ask the SFA what the score was regarding the keystone of their case that Rangers had cheated. How unfortunate they didn’t do so or am I being cynical in thinking ‘how fortunate’ for their hidden agenda – or now not so-hidden thanks to CF 😆

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CastofThousandsPosted on12:41 pm - Jul 22, 2013


ianjs

PM again.

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wottpiPosted on12:50 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Bus Depot Fires

While I believe the Sun reporting was dispicable one cannot rule out the possibility that some ned with a liking for the team in the east end of Glasgow could have been involved in fire starting. However it is wholly irresponsible to go down that path when evidence is very limited and investigations are at an very early stage.

Wilful Fire Raising (as it is in Scotland) is usually due to

Insurance Fraud and Embezzlement
Hiding Evidence /Covering Tracks
Persons with mental health issues
Revenge by disgruntled employees or disgruntled competitors
Randon Neds
And way down on the list Randon neds who are fans of football clubs.

Also seems that Bus Depots go up on a regular basis, especially in the West of Scotland

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/211961-torrance-bus-depot-fire-that-destroyed-vehicles-was-deliberate/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-12207795
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13343815
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13840305

That being said the East of Scotland also have the occassional deliberate bus depot fire raising

http://news.stv.tv/east-central/105546-fourteen-vehicles-destroyed-in-deliberate-fire-raising-at-bus-depot/

Perhaps the Sun would be better making inquiries with the bus industry as to why there are so many fires at bus depots as opposed to being creative with the contents of the sports desk’s photograph files.

As for McCoist’s comments they are easily dismissed as just more nonsense from a man who is apparently keen to shown the world he knows nothing about class or dignity (as well as football coaching).

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ecobhoyPosted on12:54 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Sugar Daddy says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:58 am

The LNS decision is not tenable in these circumstance, therefore what contingency plans are in place?
======================================================================

Sometimes patience is required as it could be at least five years away before we get a final decision on this matter should the UTT result be appealed to the Supreme Court.

However as to contingency plans I have posted to Auldheid on some things which might be relevant.

But the LNS decision I believe remains as is because the decision was taken without regard to the UTT in that the SPL was happy to accept that no unlawful payments were made for the purposes of the LNS Inquiry.

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Angus1983Posted on1:03 pm - Jul 22, 2013


It appears to me that the photographs in the Sun piece which have caused so much incandescent outrage were exclusively related to the match involving Celtic and Brentford and are captioned as such.

Is it beyond the bounds of possibility that someone on the pictures desk of the online edition made a mistake in assigning them to an online story? After all … Celtic, Rangers, what’s the difference to someone who’s not particularly interested in either?

The captions would indicate that they weren’t intended to be related to the bus depot fire.

Just saying, like.

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FinlochPosted on1:05 pm - Jul 22, 2013


We need to gear up a little and get our message out.
That is what we should concentrate on – single-mindedly.

It needn’t be expensive.
And while it can be complicated (if we overelaborate) it can also be very simple.
In fact all we need is to compile a database and produce a weekly executive summary.

Then we run a managed and planned campaign.

The campaign is in two stages

Stage 1
We tell the people on our database who we are, why we’re here, what we’re here for and why they need to know.

Stage 2 we tell them as it happens (by sharing every new blogs and with weekly updates and tweets if anything really big happens

Our database should initially consist of two types of person

1 Those who voluntarily come to the site starting with us (and this will grow)
2 Those who are not here yet especially those with influence.
We pro-actively mail them our stuff so they have no excuse.
We know they won’t get any of our stuff from MSM so lets step in.

Compiling this list is not rocket science.
It will include Politiicans (all of them) ,journalists, clubs, fan groups, UEFA etc
All their addresses are findable on the internet.

We launch it with an attempted bang somewhere and for that it needs more than just the nice but softish “sweeping under the carpet” metaphor.
It is nice and we’ll use it but it is not our key message – just a symptom.

We can debate the key point but I think it is corruption
Corruption as highlighted in our national sport.

Corruption that lead to the loss of taxes (in real pound notes)

Corruption in our MSM and their puppetmasters like Mafia House and Hay McKerronn live with, spread and cover up every day.
( I noticed HM also work for the Scottish Tories and wonder if Ruth knows what else they do and how she squares that with what she purports to be)

Corruption that has infiltrated our society

Corruption that is currently allowing spivs to blatantly avoid paying taxes that provide the services we value and nobody is doing anything about it!

The money shot in the countdown to a referendum and a general election is how the corruption in our national game is not being dealt with by anyone.

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upthehoopsPosted on1:10 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Very sad to hear of the passing of Hibernian legend Lawrie Reilly. By all accounts he was one the greatest ever Scottish players. May be rest in peace.

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AuldheidPosted on1:12 pm - Jul 22, 2013


ecobhoy says:

July 22, 2013 at 12:33 pm

Thanks for digging. I take on board the futility of trying to push the DOS angle and all that you say about SPL and SFA preparation, conivance and Bryson consequences that will bite them, but my reason for asking was this.

De Boer was paid under a Discounts Option Scheme.

Rangers did not reveal the side letter covering the arrangement to the SFA

Rangers lied to HMRC when they asked them if they were using DOS.

There was an FTT decision for HMRC against Aberdeen Asset Management’s use of DOS in the same way as used by Rangers that rendered it a means of tax evasion and it was on the basis of THE FTT findings and the fact Rangers had lied to HMRC that Rangers were counselled to accept the wee tax bill arising as a result.

The only difference between the DOS and EBT is that the fat lady has sung on DOS but not on EBTs.

On the latter I hear what you say about an appeal against an appeal. I very much doubt it in today’s climate of austerity, particularly if HMC are able to go after the beneficiaries or those resonsible for indulging in it (Rangers Directors) as a result,

Thanks again for setting LNS stuff out.

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ecobhoyPosted on1:20 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Drew Peacock says:
July 22, 2013 at 12:58 am
Castofthousands says:
July 21, 2013 at 11:59 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
EBT’s were legal so long as one did not operate them in the manner RFC did. HMRC changed the legislation some time after after the MIH/RFC one was set up because widespread abuse of the tax system.
========================================================

The EBTs operated by Rangers have been held to be legal by the FTTT. This majority decision has been appealed to the UTT by HMRC and we will get a decision on that in due course which, in general terms, will either uphold the FTTT position or find in favour of HMRC which means Rangers illegally breached tax legislation.

There is the added complication that tax regulations and laws did alter during the period that Rangers used EBTs so the UTT decision, either way, might not be a simple one. And then the matter might be appealed again to the Supreme Court so a final decision on this could be some time away.

Every time the tax legislation changes then an army of lawyers and accountants search for loopholes to save their clients money in tax payable and HMRC plug the loopholes with new legislation which keeps the whole merry-go-round turning.

What Rangers have been found guilty of is breaching football rules by not declaring the payments but afaik they haven’t been found guilty of anything else and certainly not of operating the EBTs in breach of tax laws. I think it is important to remember the facts as they are at this stage in time.

At the end of the day Rangers stopped using EBTs, as did many other British businesses, because new HMRC legislation made them obsolete in terms of reducing tax bills.

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wottpiPosted on1:30 pm - Jul 22, 2013


upthehoops says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:10 pm

Yes sad to hear of Lawrie Reilly’s passing.
By all accounts a fine player.

Think I posted this before but a member of my family was at a Hibs dinner at a table including Mr Reilly. A young Hibee asked the legend what car he used to drive when he was a player at Easter Road.

‘Car??’ replied Reilly. ‘I used to do a mornings work before the game and got the number one bus down to Easter Road’

Different times indeed.

RIP

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AllyJamboPosted on1:31 pm - Jul 22, 2013


wottpi says:

July 22, 2013 at 12:50 pm

Just about covers it, I’d say. Pity the Sun couldn’t have chosen a similar slant and highlighted similar cases of arson. I expect it took you an inordinate length of time 🙄 to come up with these reports so can we really expect someone from a newspaper to spend their time in research? I personally cannot believe for one moment that any Celtic fan (barring someone with some mental disorder of which there are bound to be some) would set fire to the Rangers’ Bus, much more likely to daub paint on it and write ‘TICKETBUS’ along the side, ensuring they take pictures and post them on the web. TRFC’s superbus was a target for Celtic, and other, fans’ humour; graffiti would provide humour, arson the opposite.
I’m not suggesting that Celtic, or any other, fan groups would indulge in vandalism of this nature, but I would certainly find it more believable that they should do that rather than a crime that could lead to death or serious injury to the public or emergency services or even, perhaps, fellow supporters.

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AllyJamboPosted on1:38 pm - Jul 22, 2013


wottpi says:

July 22, 2013 at 1:30 pm

I read this morning of Lawrie Reilly’s passing, on the Hearts fans’ website, where many had already posted their respects. As I posted there earlier, he was a Great at a time of greatness in Scottish football. A gentleman to boot and a credit to his profession.

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kitalbaPosted on1:41 pm - Jul 22, 2013


“There is the added complication that tax regulations and laws did alter during the period that Rangers used EBTs so the UTT decision, either way, might not be a simple one. And then the matter might be appealed again to the Supreme Court so a final decision on this could be some time away.

Every time the tax legislation changes then an army of lawyers and accountants search for loopholes to save their clients money in tax payable and HMRC plug the loopholes with new legislation which keeps the whole merry-go-round turning”.

Beats me who is footing the present legal bills for RFC (IL) never mind any future legal bills. Or is it once again the much short-changed RFC (IL) creditors who are being fleeced?

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timtimPosted on1:42 pm - Jul 22, 2013


According to Charles Greens mouthpiece B McMurdo ,Craig Mather is on £500k yr (£150k more than [] was) and the club*/company* is losing £300-£500k per month.
The rest of his blog is the usual paranoid ramblings of a 17th century scribe.

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john clarkePosted on1:48 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Allyjambo says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:38 pm
‘.Lawrie Reilly’s passing, ..’
——
I think my first knowledge of Lawrie Reilly goes back to about 1949, when I had a wee set of the football cards that used to be in cigarettes packets. I don’t now remember whether it was a set of the famous five.
Requiescat in pace.

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Danish PastryPosted on1:48 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Tic 6709 says:
July 22, 2013 at 12:26 pm
10 0 Rate This

john clarke says:

July 22, 2013 at 12:17 pm

By the way, has anyone ‘seen, heard, or received any money from’* Lord Wobbly in recent times?
I miss his posts.
* old workplace tag.
===============================
And Essex , Slim, Scapa, Goosy,Para Handy,Barcabhoy,and a few others whose opinions I really looked forward to.
———-

Indeed. Barca posted an interesting comment earlier today via twitter: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/maqs8i

Angus1983 is back! Welcome again to the voice of reasonable dissent. I see you’ve your usual plethora of TDs 😀

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BawsmanPosted on1:59 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Couple of hefty share dumps today………………………….UTTT? Can the new horse be flogged? Or will it still be the dead one that cops it?

http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=RFC

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willmacufreePosted on2:05 pm - Jul 22, 2013


upthehoops says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:10 pm
12 0 i
Very sad to hear of the passing of Hibernian legend Lawrie Reilly.
===========
Thanks for that information UtH. Yes indeed, one of the greatest, despite his relatively few Scottish caps.. Known as “Last-minute Reilly” for obvious reasons, and one of the famous five, whose value now would not be calculable. May he rest in peace.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:10 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Auldheid says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:12 pm
ecobhoy says:
July 22, 2013 at 12:33 pm
==========================================

I think it is always important not to become fixated on what HMRC should do or not do just because it is Rangers or indeed any other individual company. Btw I am not personally referring to you here but speaking in general terms. To me one of the primary objectives of HMRC is to collect as much tax revenue as possible as efficiently as possibly in cost terms.

For every Hector out there I could easily believe there is at least 1,000 tax specialising lawyers and accountants dreaming up new schemes to escape the ‘intent’ of tax regulation and especially new legislation. Indeed many of the best HMRC people become gamekeepers turned poacher with the rewards offered to them by the private sector.

However HMRC when dealing with tax schemes such as EBTs often will go for a test-case and if they win it they will then contact every company using the scheme and make them an offer to settle on ‘favourable’ terms or be hauled into court for a higher amount plus penalties. This approach normally works fairly well.

From what you have described with the Aberdeen Asset Management Discounts Option Scheme this appears to have happened wrt Rangers. Of course EBTs followed DOS and it was therefore probably no accident that Rangers was picked for the test case on EBTs because of the knowledge gained in the DOS case.

I think that continued HMRC action against Rangers over EBTs has probably ‘persuaded’ a number of other companies, possibly including English football clubs, to cough-up and accept repayment terms from Hector and that is what the HMRC method is all about and I’m sure privately they would have loved all the publicity which I’m sure would have seen plenty of EBT using companies knocking on their door to prevent being dragged into the media spotlight.

On De Boer and not revealing side letters well he is included in the guilty finding and fine imposed by LNS on oldco so I don’t see any mileage there and the non-disclosure doesn’t make him an ineligible player either.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:17 pm - Jul 22, 2013


kitalba says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:41 pm

Beats me who is footing the present legal bills for RFC (IL) never mind any future legal bills. Or is it once again the much short-changed RFC (IL) creditors who are being fleeced?
==================================================================

I’ve always assumed it was Murray Group who were funding it.

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neepheidPosted on2:22 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Angus1983 says:

Is it beyond the bounds of possibility that someone on the pictures desk of the online edition made a mistake in assigning them to an online story? After all … Celtic, Rangers, what’s the difference to someone who’s not particularly interested in either?

The captions would indicate that they weren’t intended to be related to the bus depot fire.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++===
I’m not sure that is correct (re captions). Since the page has now been edited/taken down, I’m relying entirely on memory 🙄 but I’m pretty sure that when I viewed the page yesterday, the pictures were uncaptioned. If the pictures had been properly captioned I don’t think I would have been so annoyed.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:25 pm - Jul 22, 2013


wottpi says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:30 pm
upthehoops says:
July 22, 2013 at 1:10 pm

Think I posted this before but a member of my family was at a Hibs dinner at a table including Mr Reilly. A young Hibee asked the legend what car he used to drive when he was a player at Easter Road. ‘Car??’ replied Reilly. ‘I used to do a mornings work before the game and got the number one bus down to Easter Road’ Different times indeed.
=====================================================
I was watching the programme on “Bert” Trautmann the other night which had obviously been prepared before his death and was amazed when he described that how to get to Manchester City’s ground from his home for a match he had to take three buses and he reeled off all the numbers. What was even more impressive is how he enjoyed it because he felt part of the ordinary community.

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TallBoy PoppyPosted on2:37 pm - Jul 22, 2013


saskya1888 says:
July 22, 2013 at 6:02 am
bad capt madman says:
July 22, 2013 at 12:42 am
Excellent post, well said!

Just had a look at CF latest input re finances in Feb 2011.
Noticed on page 4 of the detailed run down, an outstanding payment due to Noble Grossart Ltd for immediate payment for the sum of £18612.00.
This is for work billed on 16-05-2011 recharge MIH Project Charlotte.
And some say there was no collusion????
—————————————————————————————————————————————–
Indeed. Nice spot. If you look out the original announcement to the S.E of the takeover by Craig Whyte (published by Noble Grossart) it includes a paragraph stating that Noble Grossart were acting exclusively on behalf of (old) Rangers i.e. Murray. Interesting that the bill turns up on the newco balance sheet.

Remember, It was Angus Grossart that had “a telepathic”(*) relationship with (-S)DM and has appeared in RTC posts passim.

I wonder if any present Rangers directors do any business with the aforesaid bus manufacturers? 😉

*Quote from Murray at the time him and Grossart bought the Dennis bus factory ‘on the cheap’ – but that’s another story.

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paulsatimPosted on2:44 pm - Jul 22, 2013


neepheid says:
July 22, 2013 at 2:22 pm

screengrab of online version here…………………….

http://angelahaggerty.com/the-scottish-sun-thugs-n-thieves-and-a-better-standard-of-journalism/

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ecobhoyPosted on2:53 pm - Jul 22, 2013


Angus1983 says:

Is it beyond the bounds of possibility that someone on the pictures desk of the online edition made a mistake in assigning them to an online story?
================================================================

I see deflection shields are operating at full power. Still a simple question deserves a simple answer: YES!

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