The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.
It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”
The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.
The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.
But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.
David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.
The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte. In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.
Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).
If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.
The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.
Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.
To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.
If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?
First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.
So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?
Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.
Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?
Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.
What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?
Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?
Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.
And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?
Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”
As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.
I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.
The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?
And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?
Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.
I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.
From Spiers in the Herald,
“But the Rangers problem, as tedious as it now is, is still with us. The 2011 League Cup final, with its sudden eruption of bigoted chanting by the club’s fans, totally shocked Ibrox officials. Now we have Berwick, and ESPN having to apologise to the outside world for the Rangers support’s conduct.”
Can this be the same fabulous family entertainment that McAskill watched? Were the Ibrox officials “totally shocked”. If they were they certainly kept their shock well hidden.
No strip deal announcement yet? Strange 🙂 CG far too quiet of late and AMcC seems to have gone all quiet too, any news on WUO, LNS decision, FTT appeal, the mi££ions being spent on ipox, the ‘naughty’ singing yes described as this on SSB last night ……….all in all It’s lovely to see such positivity surrounding the sevco 🙂 🙂
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 12:47
1 0 Rate This
As a Dons fan it saddens me to post about a breaking scandle at the club:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-21588139
At least lamb is off of the menu.
———————————————————————————————————————-
How about potted hoch or sheep’s heid?
Galling fiver says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 12:14
1 0 i Rate This
Self policing.
Of course it’s only a suggestion of booing them down, but if he sits next to you, silent and coy about his intolerance of others and black belt in extreme violence. Then maybe it’s not such a good idea, and one I will not be participating in. Such folk tend to think if you are not the same as them, you are against them. No, let the system deal or not deal ( John Wilson )with it. After all we pay enough into the system, well some of us.
==============================================================
GF, agree with your self-policing bit.
You refer to the Hearts fan assault on NL and in reality the guy was dealt with. He was convicted of breach of the peace and spent a fair time in HMP Edinburgh on remand and was banned from his home club’s stadium. The system failed to deal with it properly because the PF couldn’t deliver evidence that the man was guilty of assault aggravated by religious prejudice. It was somewhat bizarre that as a consequence of trying to do the ‘right’ thing on the religious aspect that the charge of assault, clear to all and admitted to, also fell.
There’s evidence that the police will arrest and charge individuals in Scotland on charges aggravated by religious prejudice and gain convictions, if directed to. You would wonder though whether they believe it’s the best use of their time and whether they should be dealing with ‘proper’ crime. Note: I am aware that deniers will always offer the defence that those singing banned songs get treated more seriously than rape or murder, but I think the police have sympathy with that view and would rather focus on crimes of violence and against property – easier to deal with, more straightforward crimes. I’m sure Mr House will have been looking Grampian Police’s policy of no presence at Pittodrie for certain matches and wondering if that’s a route to go down to save the money he needs to, think of the overtime costs saved or staff reductions.
Sports Direct shares fall and Ashley sells part of his stake in the company – maybe raising cash to buy Rangers?
valentinesclown says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 09:57
It is not a MINORITY, the MSM and Sevco just peddle this approach.
It was not a minority at Hampden recently against Queens Park
It was not a minority at League Cup final a couple of years ago.
It is not a one off.
It is a Majority and it is a common event.
Admit that then deal with it.
Sevco will not condemn this
Charlie will not condemn this because it will empty Ibrox.
Money talks as the bigots sing.
By the way Charlie any news on the next orange strip?
……………………………………………………………………..
You are correct….
If it was a minority…Murray would have outed them years ago…
If it was a minority there would be no fear in shaming them…
If it was a minority…there would be no fear in publicy condenming them…
The fact is without the cash provided by the unpleasant majority who now use SEVCO as their vehicle of choice…the new club would have very little income…
Thats why the club tolerate their behaviour…
Why would a sponsor now want their Brand to be associated with such a club?
Why should ESPN show any more games involving that club? They should make a public statement announcing their refusal to broadcast games involving this club until they can be assured of their behaviour..
Does the viewer have the right to report ESPN to the broadcasting authority? Afterall they allowed the audio of the game to continue being aired? Does the subcriber have the right to seek a partial refund.
The only punishment these people understand are meaningful ones….deduction of points…removal from a cup competition…playing home games behnd closed doors…suspension from competitions…demotion to a lower league…
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 12:47
1 0 Rate This
As a Dons fan it saddens me to post about a breaking scandle at the club:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-21588139
At least lamb is off of the menu.
________
LTL,
I’m obviously shocked at this news but if the problem with the pies is something to do with horse radish, then they should be okay 🙂
I’ll get ma coat.
So we have an international broadcaster televising a scottish football match and have to apologise to their viewers because of the disgusting (and illegal) behaviour of a section of supporters. Now 72 hours later and as far as I am aware the “governing” body concerned remain unable or unwilling to even make a statement on the issue. Not surprising.
Only in other countries could you say this is “unbelievable”.
From CQN
It will be interesting to see if LNS forms a similar view.
Dissenting opinion from Ms Poon:
The Nature of the Side-letters
“Another strand of evidence being tested was the nature and purpose of the side-letters. Asked about the secrecy surrounding the side-letters, referring to the fact that they were not lodged with the SFA, nor disclosed in the long period of HMRC’s enquiry, Mr Red’s reply was: ‘I still say there is nothing secret about them. We have nothing to hide in these side letters’.
“It is not accepted that there had been no deliberate concealment of the side-letters, in view of how the first side-letter only came to light through the seizure of Mr Berwick’s file nearly four years into the enquiry.
“It is not accepted that the nondisclosure of the side-letters arose from a ‘credible’ view that Mr Red considered the side-letters irrelevant to HMRC’s enquiry. As a former Inspector of Taxes, Mr Red knew, or should have known, that the side-letters were highly relevant to the enquiry.”
“The side-letters showed a form of contractual arrangement, and they proved linkage between the sums contributed into the sub-trusts at the appointed dates and their withdrawal as loans from the sub-trusts as contemporaneous transactions. The contractual aspect and the linkage between the amounts of contributions to the main Trust and the sums loaned had been repeatedly raised in the enquiry correspondence.
“A fair conclusion to be drawn from the circumstantial evidence on the one hand, and Mr Red’s oral evidence on the other, is that the side-letters had been actively concealed. The reason for the concealment might have been, in Mr Red’s view, the side-letters could be incriminating evidence against the impression of the trust operation that he had been trying to give.”
“While not denying the proposition put to him by the Respondents that ‘there’s an overarching contract with each of the footballers, consisting of the written contract and the side letters’, Mr Red maintained that ‘it’s our view that the side-letter or the letters of undertaking do not need to be registered or lodged with the SFA’ (Day 3/31-32).”
So, in evidence, Rangers witness Mr Red, did not deny the proposition that there was an overarching contract with footballers consisting of the declared contract and side-letters, but “it’s our view” that side-letters did not need to be lodged with the lodge SFA. Ms Poon suggests a fair conclusion is the side-letters were “actively concealed” as they could be “incriminating evidence”.
The SFA has issued disciplinary action against many clubs for erroneous registration but no club has ever faced a charge of actively concealing information necessary for proper registration.
The SFA president was a working director of Rangers when “our view” was established and was legally responsible for the club’s actions. As I noted yesterday, but, frankly, can still not comprehend, on publication of this report the president announced himself “somewhat vindicated” by its contents.
Majority opinion:
John McClelland became a board member of Rangers in 2000 (legally responsible for conduct and oversight) and according to Wikipedia held senior board level positions in the electronics industry. He was also a director of the SPL (legally responsible for conduct and oversight) between the company being formed 1997 and 2008.
The majority opinion, which favoured Rangers position in regards to income tax, noted the following about Mr Indigo, who was “a board member of Rangers since 2000. His previous career was in industry, latterly serving in senior executive roles.”
Mr Indigo “acknowledged that he was, however, aware of the overall content of arrangements made with players and did not consider these to be “secret”. He believed that the Trust had been used to pay appearance money and bonuses.”
According to rules established by SPL directors, including Mr McClelland, money paid in connection with football, including appearance money, has to be registered with the league. It also has to be registered with the SFA.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2284754/Inter-Milan-fined-43-000-Serie-A-Mario-Balotelli-racist-abuse.html
_______________________________________________________________________
Dealt with swiftly and promptly…
SFA/SFL???? Or is Lunny in a dark room thinking of ways how to airbrush the incident from history???
Shares in Britain’s biggest sporting goods retailer Sports Direct fall 7.4 percent after founder and majority shareholder Mike Ashley sells part of his holding in the firm.
According to a source familiar with the transaction Ashley, who is the firm’s executive deputy chairman and is also the owner of English soccer club Newcastle United, on Monday sold 25 million shares at 4 pounds ($6.04), taking his stake down from 68.6 percent to about 64 percent.
Shares in Sports Direct have risen 46 percent over the last year, closing Monday at 430.5 pence.
They hit a 12-month high of 452.1 pence last Friday following an upbeat trading statement on Thursday
rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 12:56
———————————————————————————————————————-
How about potted hoch or sheep’s heid?
———————————————————————————————————————-
I think that the team serve that up on the park from time to time 🙂
Brenda, regarding the kit deals etc.. Rumours going about that before Saturday negotiations were going well with Tennents (or blackthorne cider, part of tennents) but they only offered £500k per season, Green turned this down as Celtic got £6m a season from Magners. Now these sponsors are backing away and £500k now looks good to Green.
Also with BT taking over SPL games next season, but not the SFL Green sees more money being lost.
It appears the TRFC fans at Berwick have cost their club some big money and maybe this is the only way the club will condemn it.
In the meantime KARMA strikes again to bite TRFC in the bahookie.
Just a thought on the shirt sponsorship delay. In my opinion it would take a very brave or very stupid business to attach their name to the Rangers Brand. If it wasn’t thought toxic enough before, due to allegations of serious ‘financial mismanagement’, surely it must be now that the sectarian element has finally been exposed UK wide. I would include the stadium renaming venture in this too. Seriously, who would want their business name attached to that?
I’ve read a number of excellent ideas on how to bring an end to the disgusting chants of TRFC supporters, and some might actually work, especially if the opposition players were to walk off the pitch. Unfortunately all the ideas seem to leave it up to others, ie players and managers of TRFC’s opposition. Even then, it would only create a situation where they stopped singing them at matches, while continuing in their homes and pubs and clubs. There is undoubtedly a reduction in the numbers singing these vile songs, but is it because they’ve accepted it is wrong to display such bigotry, or is it because they fear they will leave even the SFA/SFL with no option other than to act, and at a time they face possible crippling sanctions for other wrongdoings to boot?
For me, it has to be an action from the club itself making it plain to all, inside the TRFC family and out, that the club no longer (I know they are new but they aren’t going to say that) considers itself to be aligned in any way to Loyalism or Masonic Orders, that it is restarting with a clean slate, and that no one of any Orange inclinations will be welcome. This along with the promise that all supporters ejected from the ground for sectarian related offences will be banned, sine die, from all TRFC matches.
It is a great opportunity that Green has to show the footballing world that his Rangers are a better Rangers than the one that died (or didn’t die as he would no doubt point out). It has to be TRFC’s initiative, put into action before any sanctions, or threats of sanctions, are muted, to be seen as a genuine attempt, and one we would all welcome and applaud, to rid Scottish football, and so Scotland, of this vile abomination. If Green, or his successor, managed to cull TRFC of this evil, I for one, would gladly accept them as Rangers FC, with the only thing new about them being their new and improved morals!
Rob Penman says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:23
In addition why would a sponser announce any deal before the outcome of the LNS enquiry?
if wrong doing is found and so proven, many will assoicate those actions with an old, dead Club. However, a sponser is likely to be more cautions about the potential fall out extending from oldco to newco.
Can you imagine it, ESPN apologises to their viewers for bringing this hatred into subscribers living-rooms ( fair play to them for doing so), and yet the authorities who are charged with the responsibility of policing the game sit on their ass and look forward to their next freebe.
What a society we live in.
I’m sure ESPN will have something to say to SFA/SFL regarding their cowardly inaction.
timalloy67 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:21
1 0 Rate This
Brenda, regarding the kit deals etc.. Rumours going about that before Saturday negotiations were going well with Tennents (or blackthorne cider, part of tennents) but they only offered £500k per season, Green turned this down as Celtic got £6m a season from Magners. Now these sponsors are backing away and £500k now looks good to Green.
Also with BT taking over SPL games next season, but not the SFL Green sees more money being lost.
It appears the TRFC fans at Berwick have cost their club some big money and maybe this is the only way the club will condemn it.
In the meantime KARMA strikes again to bite TRFC in the bahookie.
================================
Celtic are not getting £6M a season it’s £6M over 3 or 4 years (can’t remember which) which is £1.5-2M per season
Also, I thought that BT were simply picking up all ESPNS coverage – so are they NOT going to show the SFL games?
aren’t the SFL games only shown on Sky? my understanding was that the SPL bought the SFL rights and sold them to Sky – as sky only wanted to deal with one body and not have to deal with both the SPL and SFL (lets face it, can you blame them?)
One of the early indicators as to how the LNS pans out is to watch the Stock-Exchange and servco’s shares
Like the book-makers they have an uncanny ability to suss out how the wind is blowing before anyone else.
NOTH, Celtic’s deal with Magners is £2m per season.
The SFA and the league bodies need to do more educational work around bigotry, just as they had to do with rascism, the effort needs to be concerted and it needs to be recognised that it will take years, probably a lot of years to reduce the problem to a small irreducible rump. It will never go away completely, as in any society there will always be deeply unpleasant people.
I am not convinced that issuing Rangers with fines or points deductions will have the desired effect. Peversely, it may make for an even more vociferous backlash. However, that stick may have to be applied if Rangers don’t come up with a credible educational programme of their own, couple with strong measures against those who break the law.
However, opinion formers out side of football also need to play apart. This includes both the Justice secretary and the First Minister both of whom really need to come out with strong unambigious statements, they won’t have much effect, but they need to do it. The people we really need to see condeming this include, Lord Jim Wallace, Eleanor Laing MP, Adam Ingram MP, Gregory Campbell MP, Brian Donohoe MP and Murdo Fraser MSP. These people have responsibility to the lead on this issue, and so far the silence has been deafening.
allyjambo says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:33
It is a great opportunity that Green has to show the footballing world that his Rangers are a better Rangers than the one that died (or didn’t die as he would no doubt point out).
——
Perhaps this is why he’s been so quiet. He’s waiting to see what the Bear on the street thinks (and, it has to be said, most of them online appear to agree that this part of the history should not be TUPEd).
Once he’s sure that that’s the majority view, he’ll come out with a statement designed to return himself to messiah status by appealing to that majority. Business as usual.
There is a sense of quiet anticipation / trepidation with the LNS enquiry supposedly reporting soon. I don’t think any of us can be absolutely confident about the result.
Any predications?
For me …
Stripping of titles – yes
Fines – nominal, slap on the wrist
Suspension / Termination – no chance
Rangers grudgingly accept the result (any challenge would force the new club / old club issue and land them in hot water if they go to the courts) – done deal and we get on with playing football.
Allyjambo.
Funny thing is, it will take only one player to walk off to trigger Armageddon (for SFA/SFL that is)
One player did it in Italy and every tv/radio channel in the free World aired it. It will be some publicity for Scotland but let it be on the SFA/SFL head if it happens – they have had ample warning over the years.
BTW I can see the above happening.
Senior says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:49
Around 13.5k shares traded so far today, price remains stable around the 79p mark.
There is a view from many Scottish football fans that if the TRFC saga had exploded in England, there would have been an unbiased and honest acccount of the whole debacle.
In today’s Daily Mail, Adrian Durham’s leads with a piece called “Why Scottish football is a joke” His research and writing skills are ably demonstrated in this mighty 250 word tome.
It’s nice to know that there are some in the English press aiming for the journalistic heights achieved by our own MSM:
Mr Adrian Durham, writing in the Daily Mail online today:
—
The Scottish Premier League is ridiculous.
Celtic are 21 points clear and they could win the title in a fortnight. The second best team in Scotland are currently 22 points clear in the Third Division.
Last summer the bloodthirsty desire to punish Rangers resulted in the death of Scottish football as sustainable worthy entertainment.
The Rangers-haters got what they wanted, and ended up with a joke league. Good work.
There’s a cryptic message for devolution lovers in there somewhere.
Below Celtic, four points separate eight teams. It would be a decent league worth watching if you took Celtic out of it, which is surely the only sensible solution.
The 5-0 thrashing of bottom club Dundee at the weekend was a training exercise and Celtic Park was nowhere near full. And why would fans pay to watch their team train?
Celtic have scored 53 more goals than Dundee already this season. It was an embarrassing mis-match.
We’re seeing the net result of this in Europe as well. Yes the crowd, the spirit and the whole atmosphere at Celtic when a juggernaut of world football like Barcelona arrive in town can carry Celtic through the odd night or two. But that can only take you so far. And Neil Lennon’s side were subsequently swept aside by Juventus.
The conclusion is this: the SPL is a joke, and it needs sorting out before the passion of the fans is diluted by the meaningless football north of the border.
—
I would only add further congratulations to Caley and Dundee Utd for unfeasibly managing to horse the “2nd best team in Scotland” this season.
Does the SFA’s lack of statement/comment/punishment concerning the disgusting chants from sevco fans at the weekend mean they are all but singing along? 🙂
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:58
0 2 Rate This
Mr Adrian Durham, writing in the Daily Mail online today:
Colours nailed firmly to the mast there…..
So the EPL and La Liga must be in the same boat then Eh?
beatipacificiscotia says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:57
0 1 i
Rate This
There is a sense of quiet anticipation / trepidation with the LNS enquiry supposedly reporting soon. I don’t think any of us can be absolutely confident about the result.
Any predications?
For me …
Stripping of titles – yes
Fines – nominal, slap on the wrist
Suspension / Termination – no chance
Rangers grudgingly accept the result (any challenge would force the new club / old club issue and land them in hot water if they go to the courts) – done deal and we get on with playing football.
——————————–
There is a depressing inevitability aboout your above predication.
Stripping of titles – simple consequence. Bears money men would have bitten your hand off for this and token fine 18 months ago. Why is that?
Fines – nominal – on what basis (not that I am necessarily disagreeing)?
Suspension – I’d at least like to see thought given to it – along the lines of “just short of match fixing.” I agree that ultimately there’s no chance expect perhaps token cup bans?
Can we get on with playing football? Depressingly yes, but on the assumption that CG jumps on the token fine and says that wos us wot paid it for ALL OUR misdemeanours and therefore we’re still here we will be doing so in the knoweldge that they got away with it – what Adrian Durham describes as sustainable worthy entertainment.
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:58
Mr Adrian Durham, writing in the Daily Mail online today:
—
The Scottish Premier League is ridiculous.
Celtic are 21 points clear and they could win the title in a fortnight. The second best team in Scotland are currently 22 points clear in the Third Division.
Last summer the bloodthirsty desire to punish Rangers resulted in the death of Scottish football as sustainable worthy entertainment.
The Rangers-haters got what they wanted, and ended up with a joke league. Good work.
There’s a cryptic message for devolution lovers in there somewhere.
Below Celtic, four points separate eight teams. It would be a decent league worth watching if you took Celtic out of it, which is surely the only sensible solution.
The 5-0 thrashing of bottom club Dundee at the weekend was a training exercise and Celtic Park was nowhere near full. And why would fans pay to watch their team train?
Celtic have scored 53 more goals than Dundee already this season. It was an embarrassing mis-match.
We’re seeing the net result of this in Europe as well. Yes the crowd, the spirit and the whole atmosphere at Celtic when a juggernaut of world football like Barcelona arrive in town can carry Celtic through the odd night or two. But that can only take you so far. And Neil Lennon’s side were subsequently swept aside by Juventus.
The conclusion is this: the SPL is a joke, and it needs sorting out before the passion of the fans is diluted by the meaningless football north of the border.
——————————————-
Seems poor sports journalism is not restricted to Scotland.
As for the large gap, this is not exclusive to The SPL this season:
EPL 12 point gap
ECH 8 point and game in hand gap
La Liga 12 point gap
Bundesliga 17 point gap
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:58
I would only add further congratulations to Caley and Dundee Utd for unfeasibly managing to horse the “2nd best team in Scotland” this season.
—————————————————————————————————————-
Angus, you missed out Stirling Albion and Queen of the South (on penalties) 🙂
Glad to see the TRFC are indeed different from their compatrioits from the RFC1872 who were recorded at San Siro against Inter Milan in CL in 2005 in an empty stadium singing Traditional songs – yes, correct – from the directors box no less!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfansforum/html/NF2154407?thread=1111573
David Murray promised an inquiry – nothing was done!
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:58
…………………………………………………..
What Adrian appears to have overlooked in his haste to suggest its all the fault of the haters?
Celtic won the SPL with a similar points gap on more than 1 occasion when the deid club where still playing in the SPL!
As to the haters getting what they wanted? Can we assume Adrian Durham now supports and promotes corruption in Football as an accetable method of football management?
And I guess we can also look at the EPL as a joke now that Utd have stretched 12 points clear and will probably end up winning the EPL before Easter? Then again it is easy to throw insults around when the TV revenue in the EPL is obscene..
Oh and it is also worth pointing out Chelsea who are 4th in the EPL were beaten 5-2 on aggregate by Juventus…yes we were well beaten but to use our league as some sort of default to losing to Juventus is just utter P*SH!
Should also have mentioned….Juventus spent approx. £43 million pounds in the summer on players…
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:58
Mr Adrian Durham, writing in the Daily Mail online today:
————————————————–
Adrian Durham…Talksport presenter…need I say more. We’re talking lowest common denominator journalism here. (To be fair, I’ve heard him vociferously condemn racism in football so he has his good points too)
Adrian Durham one of many of Talksport’s advocates of the “greed is good school of thought” even when it destroys the very club he describes as hated.
For a bright guy he can be a right pumpkin.
The SFA/SPL cannot and will not take action on the sectarian singing.
To do so would draw attention to their utter failure to report on last February’s breach and would raise questions as to the three other occasions broadcast this season that I know of namely the first Berwick game, the game at Hampden against Queen’s Park and the game against Clyde – all clearly heard – and all clearly ignored by all in any position of authority or writing in the MSM in Scotland. .
It is surely significant that the two factors which led to this being reported were one that this was not broadcast by SKY – SKY has been complicit in covering up the sectarian chants of RFC fans for decades now – and two that they were reported by a police force in England – most Strathclyde policemen appear like they are dying to join in the singing in my experience, – whilst other Scottish forces stay schtum.
With Strathclyde’s finest now heading up our new national Force, and with McCaskill and the SNP Sevco gang in charge,expect this incident and the inevitable subsequent incidents to be studiously ignored by all and sundry in officialdom – within and beyond football in Scotland.
Sorry SFL – CG’s Rangers have never been in the SPL.
Never mind £43M in the summer, the Juve team cost close to £200M – and of course, Juve are a team not without their own sordid history of bribery and corruption….which brings us nicely to the refs performance that night!
seems Durham likes his football with brown envelopes being handed out to anyone with a sympathetic ear
Adrian Durham an advocate of the “greed is good” school of thought that pervades most of Talksport.
for a bright guy he can be a right pumpkin.
Adrian Durham’s modus operandi is to throw out a controversial line (or two) and wait to see who bites. His radio show consists of him saying black whilst Darren Gough (and everyone else) says white. Anyone who disagrees with him is treated with contempt. Balanced journalism it is not. File in bin alongside Messrs. Traynor and Wilson.
beatipacificiscotia says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:57
…
Any predications?
For me …
Stripping of titles – yes
Fines – nominal, slap on the wrist
Suspension / Termination – no chance
Rangers grudgingly accept the result (any challenge would force the new club / old club issue and land them in hot water if they go to the courts) – done deal and we get on with playing football
Could this be the predicament facing LNS: if ‘Rangers’ have been found to have broken the rules over a prolonged period, the stripping of titles won would be a reasonable consequence.
However, to strip titles is an official acknowledgement that the wrongdoing was of a significantly, serious nature – a level of wrongdoing never been seen in Scottish football before.
So, IMO, the punishment has to be commensurate with the level of wrongdoing.
A nominal fine would be blatantly inconsistent with a decision to strip any titles.
Expulsion would seem like an appropriate punishment.
So how would LNS explain any ‘lenient’ punishment ?
Adrian Durham is very much the English version of our very own James Traynor.
Perhaps he will also soon resign his positions at the newspaper and on the radio and take up a position at Pompey or a team of similar financial standing ……..
beatipacificiscotia says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:57
There is a sense of quiet anticipation / trepidation with the LNS enquiry supposedly reporting soon. I don’t think any of us can be absolutely confident about the result.
Any predications?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes.
Guilty? Yes
Title- stripping? – no, because there is no precedent for overturning results within SPL rules (a fudge set up when the SFA backed out of leading the investigation in unprecedented fashion)
Appeal? No
Challenge from anyone? No – because LNS ‘legally couldn’t do anything else’
Afraid I’m not optimistic, following how legal minds think, exemplified by the FTT – but that’s just me
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 11:58
25 6 Rate This
Guys
on the songs debate..i’ts getting tiring, dull, repetitive…rather than focus on what Sevco fans did/didn’t do/could do/should do….can we move the debate on to what the SFA/SPL/SFL/Police can and should do
Whilst Sevco are definitely the focus of attention just now – plenty of other clubs have had (or will have) a spot light thrown upon them in this regard
I personally think some football chants have a great degree of humour in them and they can be very quick to reflect current events.
Sure, some of them may be unpleasant, insulting, derogatory but they are not all criminal.
For me, staying within the limits of the law is the only restriction that should be placed upon football fans
We should not try to restrict what songs a support will come up with at a game just because someone might be offended…..lets face it, you’ll find someone who gets offended at anything. I expect someone will be offended by this post and it’ll get a thumbs down
But, the “songs” debate and the constant digging up of sevco fans is becoming tiring. we know they are in the wrong, they know they are in the wrong…lets take it back to the forums of our own clubs to slag them silly….in the meantime, if we have any meaningful constructive advice for the gutless, spineless cowards “running” our game – feel free to address the broader issue
sorry if i have offended anyone
——————————————————————————————————————-
Show Sectarianism the red card.
This link may provide actions that could be taken to address this issue.
http://t.co/wLwU38N9AC
Stevie – you’re quite right.
Fielding players confirmed as ineligible leads to results being modified, which leads to titles being removed.
This is, as the old line goes, simply a consequence of fielding those ineligible players. You just follow the chain of consequences.
It is then up to the SPL whether they punish Rangers FC for doing so.
Suspension or expulsion of the Club (which LNS has made clear equals TRFC in this case)would indeed seem appropriate for an offence of such gravity.
But … LNS is operating under SPL terms – what odds does it make to TRFC if they are banned from the SPL for the next two years?
They cannot be expelled from it – by their own words they’ve never even been in it.
And, with reconstruction, will the SPL continue to exist in similar enough form that banning them from it sine die would have any practical effect?
The other day I said I hoped that maybe there had been a turning point and that T’Rangers would now be trying to reshape themselves into the type of club many would like them be by dumping the past and look forward to the future.
To me the lack of leadership from T’Rangers over the signing incident at the weekend has shown that there is something still seriously wrong with the running of the club.
Given the level of press coverage, let alone the debate on social media, If someone at the top cannot make a statement, even a ‘holding’ one, then what hope is there?
We have minor figures from the club talking to the press and once again (even he must be sick of it) Ally McCoist is being shoved into the limelight on non footballing matters. I know he is on big bucks but I am finding it in my heart to have a little sympathy for a guy who, for the shift he put in over the summer, should really just be getting on with managing the team on the park.
Has anyone seen the big hitters of M Murray, Charles or Sir Cardigan. Perhaps they are hiding in that secret cave where Campbell Ogilvie has been living and working in for the last year.
valentinesclown says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 15:36
==================================================
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 11:58
25 6 Rate This
Guys
on the songs debate..i’ts getting tiring, dull, repetitive…rather than focus on what Sevco fans did/didn’t do/could do/should do….can we move the debate on to what the SFA/SPL/SFL/Police can and should do
======================================================================
——————————————————————————————————————-
Show Sectarianism the red card.
This link may provide actions that could be taken to address this issue.
http://t.co/wLwU38N9AC
======================================================
Ho hum. I refer you again to NTHM’s post at 11:58 today. Please?
In my non-cynical opinion the decision of LNS will be shaped roughly as follows:
– They will find against Rangers in that they were in breach of the rules.
– The usual reprimands will be in there, but the real teeth will be in further more specific punishments.
– Titles will be corrected, but some means of not correcting the result of all titles in question will be found – some middle ground solution (How LNS might consider and interpret the extent of breach remains in doubt).
– The financial aspects of the judgements will take a split form – payback prizemoney and punishment fines. Since its unclear that the prizemoney can be directly identified as being in the possession of NewGers, they wont be asked to pay it back, but the punishment fine aspect will have an impact on NewGers.
– The footballing punishment will be wholly on the Rangers FC, and so the current O/O company will need to carry the can. I think they may be subject to a further transfer ban, a points deduction maybe now or maybe on entering the SPL or it’s equivalent again in future, and possibly a cup ban for a season or two (but given there’s not a specific ‘SPL cup’, maybe not).
– Further punishments will be applicable but suspended.
– No recommendation will be made on any reallocation of corrected titles will be made. This will be left to the SFA/SPL.
This assumes no major surprises from LNS.
Any fines applicable will be tax deductible…
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/sport-does-not-have-probity-and-trust-at-heart-guest-post-by-carl31/
csihampden says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 15:36
beatipacificiscotia says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:57
There is a sense of quiet anticipation / trepidation with the LNS enquiry supposedly reporting soon. I don’t think any of us can be absolutely confident about the result.
Any predications?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes.
Guilty? Yes
Title- stripping? – no, because there is no precedent for overturning results within SPL rules (a fudge set up when the SFA backed out of leading the investigation in unprecedented fashion)
Appeal? No
Challenge from anyone? No – because LNS ‘legally couldn’t do anything else’
Afraid I’m not optimistic, following how legal minds think, exemplified by the FTT – but that’s just me
……………………………………………
Timing is everything…
In terms of no precedent….means nothing…one only has to look at the SFA and their panel of QC’s who concocted a punishment that didn’t exist…to avoid applying the only punishment that did exist to match the offences they had committed?
Ony for SEVCO to cry foul and go running to the CoS…win the case and be told the panel must now select a punishment that is available to them…..(penny drops) and SEVCO withdraw their appeal and accept the original punishment that didn’t exist!
However this is the SPL….I would not be surprised if…they strip the titles…Charlie threatens court…Charlie goes to court…CoS find in his favour (although for the life of me I cannot see how) and the SPL re issue a punishment that amounts to no more than a finger wagging…
Good Afternoon,
as sectarianism raises its ugly head in the stands and in the press yet again– I take a trip down memory lane and make an observation– or two.
Graham Spiers, God and Dermo67’s Corner Kick.
http://wp.me/p1G95H-E9
BRTH
For me the worst thing about Mr Durham’s poorly researched and poorly constructed piece is his perpetuation of the notion that the current situation in Scottish football is somehow the fault of so-called ‘Rangers-haters’.
This scurrilous use of language (of the type I have become accustomed to in the Scottish MSM) is intended to provide a perjorative narrative to the gullible public and is straight out of Mr Green’s (and Mr Goebbels’) PR handbook.
In recent months, I have watched the rhetoric coming out of Ibrox develop to a point where critics have become ‘enemies’ and righteous men have become ‘haters’, investigations have become ‘witch hunts’ and consequences have become ‘punishments’. Any reasonable voices among The Rangers’ supporters are described as ‘hand-wringers’ or ‘appeasers’ or worse (in some cases much much worse).
The use of these terms is now widespread throughout the media and are no more than ‘ad hominem’ attacks designed to deflect criticism away from the real villains behind this fiasco (i.e. Rangers, the football authorities and the MSM themselves).
No rational person wants to be considered a ‘hater’ or an ‘enemy’ and will likely limit their criticism or avoid speaking out altogether for fear of being branded as such. It works the same way in politics where e.g. the charge of ‘anti-semitism’ is almost always used to deflect criticism of the actions of the Israeli government.
That these kind of propaganda terms have entered the lexicon of ‘the game of football’ just goes to show how corrupted the sport has become. However, it has now gone beyond simple corporate greed and moved into the realms of something more sinister.
In my humble opinion, there is clearly ‘social engineering’ at play here. That the authorities (both football and civic) have sat back and allowed this to get to the point where paranoia is rife and neighbour is suspicious of neighbour leads me to believe that they are also complicit. That this comes at a time where we are having a National debate on the future of the country only compounds my concern.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 16:21
====================================
Aaah, the balm of BRTH. Just when it’s needed.
The Graham Spiers’ piece.
=====================
“…This cancer is being killed off, but only slowly, and hardly smoothly. It is deep-rooted and it lingers – we have the evidence for that.
I now believe, taking Willie Waddell’s seminal statement in 1976 as a starting point, it will take fully 50 years for Rangers to finally gouge out this sickness.”
======================================
A bit confused with the above last two sentences.
Is Spiers inferring that TRFC’s problems cannot be resolved quickly, so Scottish football should just have to work around this problem meantime.
Or…
The TRFC’s problems are so deeply ingrained that it will always be a blight on Scottish football, so rather than ‘gouge out this sickness’ it might be best to euthanise the sick patient ?
I have no idea why anyone would give any credence or weight to the article that appears in the name of Adrian Durham— none whatsoever.
There are far more pertinent and worthy comments from a number of contributors to this and other blogs.
Timothy & Co @mdkster Protected account
Congratulations to Lord Hodge on his appointment to the Supreme Court. I wonder how he’ll handle the London approach to tweeting from Court?
Expand Reply Favorite
Timothy & Co @mdkster Protected account
I wonder if he’ll now deal with the accusation that D&P, as Officers of the Court, lied to him – or whether it’ll be Someone Else’s Problem?
Expand Reply Favorite
http://www.thelawyer.com/news-and-analysis/practice-areas/litigation/bar-news-and-analysis/three-judges-appointed-to-supreme-court-bench/3001747.article
Does anyone know if this means the end of his involvement with duff n phelps?
Senior says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 13:57
Allyjambo.
Funny thing is, it will take only one player to walk off to trigger Armageddon (for SFA/SFL that is)
One player did it in Italy and every tv/radio channel in the free World aired it. It will be some publicity for Scotland but let it be on the SFA/SFL head if it happens – they have had ample warning over the years.
BTW I can see the above happening.
__________________________
Totally agree, but to have any real impact it has to come from within Rangers, and the more they can make it look voluntary, the better. Most of us said from the outset of the Rangers Tax Case that we’d be delighted to see a Rangers without the bigotry and I’m sure they could get themselves a hell of a lot of brownie points if they showed they were prepared to tackle this cancer from within. They have to show they are seriously trying to get rid of their vile supporters, despite the potetential financial Armagedon, or else this will continue, and unless it’s stopped completely – by Rangers – it will just simmer away until they think it’s been forgotten about, and then grow again. Unless TRFC take the initiative, rather than react to public opinion or legal actions, none of us will ever believe that the nest of bigotry, that is Ibrox, is serious in it’s attempts to find decency. The ‘songbook’ is just a result of the bigotry, what needs to be changed is the culture of bigotry. So what if they change the words to ‘up to our knees in beer and mud’, we all know what they will actually be saying, or more to the point, meaning! The fact is, that unless you know the words of these songs, it’s more or less impossible to make them out when 40,000 crap drunken voices are belting them out – it’s the way they sing them that gives their true meaning.
It would knock me into the middle of next week if LNS is made a fool of ( SFA/SFL/SPL) for a second time.
This man has a reputation for straight talking and honesty. IMO he will find cheating (not in so many words) on a grand scale and will be very keen to make sure what happened the last time will not occur a second time.
There is a lot riding on this decision and if the findings, the consequence, and the punishment is fudged it will insert the final nail in the coffin of Scottish football.
I can’t imagine LNS being the fall guy for Scottish football and being associated with, potentially, the worst scandal in British football history.if the findings are messaged
Robert Coyle@16.45
Does anyone know if this means the end of his involvement with duff n phelps?
Personally, I would have liked to have seen the START of his involvement with duff n phelps!!!
smartie1947 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 17:40
5 0 Rate This
Robert Coyle@16.45
=================
LH gets promoted for not dealing with duff n phelps/Sevco, what will LNS get for his fudging of RFC(IL) guilt?
nowoldandgrumpy on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 18:11
0
0
Rate This
smartie1947 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 17:40
5 0 Rate This
Robert Coyle@16.45
=================
LH gets promoted for not dealing with duff n phelps/Sevco, what will LNS get for his fudging of RFC(IL) guilt?
————————————————————————————
Maybe he’ll be the man that ultimately decides the EBT case.
If it makes it all the way to the Supreme Court.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot…on/8014811.stm
Particularly love this wee bit
“The south coast outfit had hoped to avoid the punishment as they argued that it was their parent company Southampton Leisure Holdings plc (SLH) which had gone into administration on 2 April – not the football club.
But a League investigation by “independent forensic accountants” found that the football club and SLH were “inextricably linked as one economic entity” and applied their mandatory penalty.
So a judge now a supreme court judge cannot make a decision on COI for administrators that were responsible to him, until another organisation makes a ruling on COI on those same court appointed auditors.
At least at the Supreme Court he has people handy he can double check with.
nowoldandgrumpy on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 18:11
0
0
Rate This
smartie1947 says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 17:40
5 0 Rate This
Robert Coyle@16.45
=================
LH gets promoted for not dealing with duff n phelps/Sevco, what will LNS get for his fudging of RFC(IL) guilt?
—————————————————————-
Maybe he’ll be the man that ultimately decides the EBT case. If it makes it all the way to the Supreme Court.
A point for us as Scottish football fans to monitor: presently fans at Dens Park are up in arms about the club’s CEO, and the appointment of John Brown. Rumours abound that Gardiner, the CEO, who has Rangers connections, is trying to force out the directors in order to secure the club as chairman, on the cheap as it were.
Presently, fans groups own 52% of the club, but the organisations supplying the directors to the Dundee board have lost a lot of support recently, and fans in revolt would suit someone trying to marginalise the influence of supporters’ organisation. Gardiner is presently an employee, but might fancy a different position if he can get the other board members to resign.
One theory is that Green’s mob are at the back of the unrest presently being experienced at Dens, while a stronger rumour concerns Jonathan Hope and Stephen Vaughan of the Media Pro Sports Group which tried to buy into Queen of the South last season. According to one Dundee message board, both are friends of John Brown, and both have previously been involved in shenanigans at other football clubs (PNE, Chester City, Stockport County, Barrow AFC and Runcorn). They backed Brown following his ramble on the steps of Ibrox in late June.
All the clubs which Hope and Vaughan have tried to move in on have been on a downward spiral at the time. Some of those which Vaughan was actually involved with wnet out of business: Chester City and Runcorn as examples. Vaughan was jailed for 15 months in March 2011 for affray and the serious assault of a police officer.
Nonetheless, currently any involvement by either Green or Hope/Vaughan is simply rumour.
And another thing! With no games on Saturday 23rd March (due to the Scotland v Bale match at Hampden on 22nd), why are spl clubs being made to play this week, with some fans having to travel long distances on cold evening with potential transport difficulties (eg, Ross Co., tonight, and Dundee United tomorrow)?
Really, the authorities appear to have no idea when catering for their customers.
regarding the despicable singing by sevconians at berwick
(charles green gets his wish to play in england?)
. . . why are uefa not involved, as they had “previous” with the previous club
[which played at iBrox stadium – the stadium that john brown was proud to play for]
John Brown when you think of the managers in lower divisions or experienced managers out of the game they go for John Brown.
a club lacking in ambition big time.
chipsandblog says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 19:38
0 0 Rate This
John Brown when you think of the managers in lower divisions or experienced managers out of the game they go for John Brown.
a club lacking in ambition big time.
==============
There’s got to be more to it than that. Something’s going on behind the scenes, I don’t know what, but it’s time the Dundee supporters used their 52% shareholding to put their CEO Mr Gardiner in his place- and that place isn’t Dens Park.
Jim Larkin.
UEFA organise competitions, they are not an over-arching governing body for domestic leagues.
It will be a few years yet til The Rangers are under the jurisdiction of UEFA.
Maybe CG or his buddies could buy Dundee and rename it to another RFC team or even rename it to RFC and rename RFC to Dundee now that the SFA allow clubs to rename as and when required. Then RFC could play in the top league in a couple of seasons.
Dundee would be banned from Europe for 3 seasons and have to settle the RFC fines from LNS if found guilty 🙂
They would, of course, be well within their rights to claim Dundee’s Scottish Cup win in 1909/10 as their own. And their 3 Scottish League Cups. And all their 1st division titles. Heck they’ll be running out of space for all those stars they’ll need to add to their tops.
Re LNS
I have said this before – I except a honest and through examination of the case by those concerned – as LNS has too much to loose in terms of his reputation and his legacy.
In terms of the aftermath – if as many of us expect that RFC are found to have systematicially pulled the wool over the eyes over the footballing authorities I have no idea how the SPL and/or the SFA will move to implement any punishment.
That said – I fully expect European clubs who feel that they have lost out at the hands of any illegality will seek redress from their national footballing authorities who in turn will look towards UEFA for assistance.
If LNS find RFC guilty of systematic cheating then the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/44079267708/spl-viewing-figures-guidelines-for-the-future
If you’re a reader of my blog, you’ll know about my collation of the SPL’s viewing figures and will know about the exceptional 4.3 million people who watched Celtic vs Juve in the Champions League. This post is suggestions and observations based on the 6 months worth of data collected so far.