The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.
It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”
The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.
The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.
But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.
David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.
The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte. In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.
Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).
If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.
The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.
Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.
To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.
If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?
First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.
So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?
Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.
Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?
Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.
What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?
Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?
Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.
And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?
Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”
As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.
I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.
The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?
And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?
Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.
I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.
Well that’s it for me folks. The result today is just what I expected. LNS joins Lord Hodge in the cabal that has ensured the continuation of the toxic Rangers brand in Scottish football. Anyone want to bet against Lord Hodge, Lord Nimmo-Smith, and all the various “Rangers men” being members of the same club?
My interest and involvement in Scottish professional football ends today. Not a great loss, either to me or the game at large.
More importantly, what the events of the last 18 months have done is to completely destroy any faith I might have had in the Scottish “establishment”. The political establishment, well think only of our First Minister’s attempt to intervene. Our judiciary? the names of Lord Hodge and Lord Nimmo-Smith will live forever in infamy. The fourth estate? Who are there to hold the others to account? Please don’t make me laugh (or cry, more like).
So the establishment, and their club, have won. That’s the end game. Forget the UTT, it really doesn’t matter. Rangers will very shortly be back in their proper place, and anyone who pays to watch the farce unfold further is a complete mug, in my opinion. As for this forum, it has been great while it lasted, a lot of great posters and memorable posts, but I just see no point any more.I won’t be back.
I know most decent fans are sickened with today’s decision, but I would ask people not to walk away just yet.
What about the weekend 9th/10th of March for a national boycott of the most corrupt leagues in the world.
Before you tear up the season tickets please do your utmost to stage this boycott i.e emails to friends, to clubs sites, to fan clubs, to newspapers to TV, to radio.
It has to be done and done now.
I did say it was about creating new rules! Game’s been broke since the SPL’s inception. Obvious and penetrable loopholes existed. Someone may even have known? Off to play some Golf. My new sport of choice.
THE Commission established by the Scottish Premier League to investigate allegations of historic non-disclosure of payments made to players announced its findings.
The Commission found that The Rangers Football Club plc issued letters to players relating to the EBT scheme and these should have been disclosed under the rules of the SPL and the SFA, even though the existence of the scheme was a matter of public record having been disclosed annually in the company’s accounts and professional advice had been obtained by the Murray Group.
The payments to players were themselves found not to be irregular or in breach of SPL and SFA rules, but breach of disclosure rules required a penalty to be imposed on The Rangers Football Club plc, now in liquidation (Oldco).
In their findings, the Commission, headed by Lord Nimmo Smith, stated: “Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage from the contraventions of the SPL rules in failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements, nor did the non-disclosure have the effect that any of the registered players were ineligible to play, and for this and other reasons no sporting sanction or penalty should be imposed on Rangers FC.
The Commission imposed a £250,000 fine on Oldco and this will not have any effect on the operations and activities of the Club and the company as they now stand.
Charles Green, chief executive, issued the following statement.
“On behalf of the board of directors at Rangers, I note the findings of the Commission. It is abundantly clear from the ruling there was no attempt by Rangers Football Club secure any unfair advantage or to cheat, as so many people asserted without giving any regard to the actual evidence.
“I would re-iterate that at no stage have I, nor anyone now involved in the running of this club, questioned the integrity of the Commission members. What I did question was the creation of a process which some people had predetermined. Every Rangers fan will be delighted that the Commission refused to get carried away on this agenda.
“It is a matter of fact that people within the SPL wanted me, at first, to surrender titles as part of a deal to enable Rangers to play again as a member of the SFA. I rejected and resisted that suggestion and today’s decision vindicates the position of the Board and the supporters. In particular, I would like to thank the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund for their dedication and commitment on this matter.
“It is fair to say that there was, at one stage, a very unhealthy desire to press on with an investigation into this matter when cool heads and clear thinking was required. Instead, there was a frenzied atmosphere around Rangers caused by the Club’s insolvency situation.
“This issue could have and should have been dealt with by the board of the SPL rather than embarking on an unnecessarily grand and expensive process. At the end of the day I am left with the impression that this has been much ado about very little and a great waste of energy, time and money.
I think I speak for all Rangers fans in saying now, enough is enough. I have said before and will say again it is time everyone moved on. There are considerable challenges ahead for this club and Scottish football as a whole.
“That is where all efforts and energy should now be focused. We, as a club, will work with all parties who have the good of the game at heart. We are looking forward and I urge all Rangers fans to do likewise. We are rebuilding this Club and are making great strides. The dark days are over and it is time now for all to embrace our ambition for a brighter future.”
Manager Ally McCoist said: “I am delighted in many ways by the decision today. As a former player, I know how hard it is to achieve success on the pitch and the suggestion that somehow Rangers sought to gain unfair advantage was deeply insulting to me and others who had worn the Rangers jersey with immense pride.
“I found the whole approach to this matter by the SPL utterly bizarre and misguided.
“Our fans will take great heart from this and hopefully now – after all that we have been through – there will be a widespread realisation that it is time to move on. Rangers have a huge amount to offer Scottish football and we have always been more than willing to do our bit for the good of the game.”
I am feeling strange right now. Let me try to put it into words. The team I follow has meant a lot to me. When I was growing up I had nothing in common with my father except for my team. We were able to hold conversations and telephone calls about the ebb and flow of our shared fortunes where otherwise we would have stayed silent. Without my team, I doubt that I would have stayed close to my father. I had an opportunity to get to know him as a man in his later years and I treasure those few years we had before he died. I cannot be sure, of course, but I feel that my team had something to do with that. In the years that followed I held a season ticket, attended cup games (although I was never much of a traveller to away games), bought scarves and tops, argued in pubs and did all of the usual things that supporters do.
Eventually I moved away and my connection with my team faded a little. In my middle years I loved watching my team but I pulled the plug on Sky years ago because of Murdoch and the rigours of life and work limited how and when I followed my team elsewhere. But that connection was still there, mellowed and perhaps slightly sepia-tinted.
The revelations and machinations of the past year (and beyond if you include 11-1, reconstruction, prize money, you name it) have done something to me. I believe that I should support my team despite any perceived lack of fairness or trust in the footballing authorities, even in the face of the golf club politics and the mind-numbing coverage in the media. I believe that, but I do not feel it. What I feel right now is ennui. Today’s news has not so much brought it on as confirmed its presence. As much as I would like to become impassioned and call for a clean slate, justice and fairness for all, I find that I can only shrug my shoulders.
What do I do with that? You never realise that you don’t love something any more until some time has passed. At that point you look back and realise that, at some point, something vital was lost. Maybe there is a remnant of my past affection somewhere inside but I am reluctant to look for it. What if it isn’t there and I have to finally resign myself to its loss? What if it is there and I am forced to try to honour it despite this fug of ennui? I want neither.
This weekend I may wash my car. If it is sunny I may go for a walk. If it is inclement I may read a book. Will I tune into Sportsound? Perhaps, out of habit. Perhaps not.
goosygoosy says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 13:03
22 0 i Rate This
In a nutshell LNS has said
( in my words)
The players concerned were found to have been incorrectly registered
However
No player was ever guilty of being “ineligible to play” simply because of having been incorrectly registered by his Club
Because
It is not possible for any player to be ineligible to play simply because his Club broke the rules by “incorrect registration” The argument is that incorrect registration is not a barrier to playing during the period when the incorrect registration is undisclosed
A player can only have his incorrect registration turned into “ineligibility to play” by the Authorities They can only do this when they become aware of it
.Even then the authorities do not have any rule under which a decision to turn “incorrect registration” into “ineligibility to play” is backdated
All that can be done by the authorities is to decide an appropriate punishment for “incorrect registration
This has been set at £250k which will be added to the debts of RFC
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So
If Spartans had won the Scottish Cup but it was later discovered that they had failed to sign some form making player ineligible in an earlier round then the punishment would not have been withdrawal of a trophy
…………
Forget hypothetical navel gazing – why then were Spartans expelled from the Scottish Cup?
Surely by the same interpretation they should merely have been fined. Clearly LNS doesn’t value precedent or custom and practice
Senior
I admire your resolve but does anyone in any institution which has brought about this sorry excuse of a “sporting league” care what we think? They care for one and one only.
Anyone know whether or not today’s ruling has any bearing on the player registrations for SFL and SFA competitions?
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 09:46
borussiabeefburg says:
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 at 18:40
I think it worth remembering the recent announcement that Green had been approached by D&P re three other clubs that were in financial difficulties. Be nice to see if D&P turn-up anywhere in the links.
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Someone who knows more than most about them recently described them to me as “all swimming in the same sewer.”
The biggest question in my mind is why Gordon Smith feels it right and proper to associate with and be represented by a man like ‘Jonathan’/Steven Hope.
That’s more shocking than any fudge that Nimmo-Smith could come up with for his Spec pals.
Sent my mate a text this morning at 7.42 and all I wrote was one word “Whitewash”.
As the dragons say “for that reason I’m out”.
Sad…but unfortunately a timely wee reminder for us all, as it’s now all legal & official
,…they are (indeed) the peepul 🙁
Senior says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 13:56
It has to be done and done now.
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Senior – nae offence, but see that horse bolting over the horizon there?
—
Meanwhile, Here is the view from the other side:
“They are still spouting pish on bbc ireland(scotland), for using “ineligable players!” It was side letters ya bunch a fuds! Admin errors! why cant they just accept it and move the fuck on??. Truly bitter and obsessed, that Gollum twat (mcglauchlan) had a face like sour milk, but of course he used phrases like “relief” and “improper payments”. The sphell commision had to include a guilty aspect so that the haters and the unwashed had a wee bit of an excuse to keep up their campaign and so that fuds like daly isnae asked to hand back “tainted awards”.. Bring it on ya bunch a muppets.. INNOCENT OF GAINING SPORTING ADVANTAGE..
It has been a Carling Week make NO MISTAKE..The pope does walking away, o`brien caught playing away, the mhankies cannae win away, AND NO FUCKIN TITLES WILL BE TAKEN AWAY.. x 54 and counting, were STILL GOING STRONG.”
—
Know what? The guy’s pretty much right on all counts – supported by today’s decision. This is the attitude that has been encouraged and endorsed.
Fact is, they ARE the people.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 13:22
The decision seems to be more sympathetic to the Club than to its opponents. I’m also struggling to understand how, by comparison, Spartans could be deemed to have gained a competitive advantage by omitting to date a second signature.
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Didin’t you know that without second signatures the world would stop spinning on its axis. It’s a fundemantal law of physics, a bit like the Higgs-Boson particle. Peace will break out in the middle east before a double signed document is allowed to be sullied by the SFA.
And now onto the final stage of the greatest scam in world football history. Mark my words. Rangers will be re-instated in the SPL next season. A 100% certainty.
One more time:
“Ha ha when will all the other fans realise that we where never guilty of anything apart for an admin error.”
With approx 50 recipients each year, for a period of 10 years, today’s fine of £250K equates to approx £500 per “administrative error”, probably far less than the cost to Spartans and East Stirlingshire for their genuine single errors.
The moral of the story is therefore don’t make one error make hundreds.
It also seems to me to be almost unbelievable that with almost all players,staff etc incorrectly registered, match officials giving them the advantage on every occasion and governing bodies bending backwards to find in their favour, how RFC ever lost any competition they entered in Scotland.
Its so so sad. The need felt by some of the most powerful individuals in this country to keep some sort of deluded team from Govan trailing their bile from town to town for the good of the game is astonishing. Beyond belief.Why bother pretending to have a meaningful league at all. Allow the tribute act access to Champions Leage every year for the good of the game.Let them play any player they want regardless of silly little registration details. All for the good of the game. Give them the chance to settle old scores against everyone deemed to be an enemy.All for the good of the game.Let them boycott every team in the land. All for the good of the game.
Except, the game died today. There may be no one to play, no one to boycott and no one to hear the little ditties belted out at Berwick last week. What a dreadful little country we live in.
The future is not so bright.
Straw pole for those who go to either SPL or SFL matches.
TU: If you will continue to attend games
TD: If you are not going back to a football match
If a member club is deliberately withholding information from the governing body that it knows is contrary to the actual as well as spirit of said rules (i.e. it really does break the rules), then how can the governing body know that that information is being withheld? Subsequently, what can the governing body do to sanction or hold the member-club accountable if it is completely unaware of this action by the member club? I’d suggest: Nothing.
However if such rule-breaking is exposed, some way down the line (I’m guessing there’s no such thing as a statute of limitations in SPL/SPL/SFL sports-governance), are we all just expected to shrug our shoulders, have a wee chuckle at the sheer cheek of it all, and simply move on? Is that what football governance in Scotland has come to? Or does sporting justice need to be seen to be done?
Unless there some form of sporting redress available to the clubs who have lived by the rules and been punished themselves’ when judged to be in breach, then there really is no point in spending good money on this very corrupted product. I very much doubt than any club would be prepared to make acclaim against the SPL, which is a pity, but in the current mob-run climate (otherwise known as the fabric of society) I understand the reluctance of club chairmen and their owners to grow a pair. Shame on them all.
greenockjack says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 14:22
jack, gave a thumbs down on the assumption you meant senior football?
So, we’re back to wondering if UEFA will save us from ourselves? An utter joke.
Alex O’Henley @OHenleyAlex
What Nimmo Smith doesn’t explain is how SPL/SFA could revoke registrations when there has been “deliberate non-disclosure.” Strange one that
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Having read the LNS decision during lunch, I have to say it is both fair and balanced. I am not a lawyer but he seems to have applied the law as it stands, which is precisely what one would hope for and expect of a judge.
The sanction is questionable but the decision is fair and balanced, based on the evidence he cites.
The same thing may also be true of decision by the FTTT (subject to appeal).
The shenanigans of the SFA / SPL (and to a degree the SFL) in admitting the Rangers Newco to the Third Division were most definitely not fair and balanced. Our sporting authorities and the MSM sought the corrupt avenue at every stage until it was closed off to them by those that refused to accept it.
The victims in this whole sorry episode are many.
I suspect that various rules – commercial and sporting – will be rewritten in the aftermath of what has taken place. If so, such a revision will be carried out for a reason. The reason being to never allow “what Rangers did” to happen again. That is a badge of shame I would not wish to wear.
Some people on this forum and throughout Scottish football may disagree with some or all of the above and may feel that an injustice has taken place.
I refer them to those three words inside quotation marks above. Those who helped expose it should feel proud. Those who feel it is something to be ignored or celebrated should feel deeply ashamed.
I will continue to support my wee club. My conscience is clear.
smartie1947 says:
It also seems to me to be almost unbelievable that with almost all players,staff etc incorrectly registered, match officials giving them the advantage on every occasion and governing bodies bending backwards to find in their favour, how RFC ever lost any competition they entered in Scotland.
====================================================
What’s more, it renders every title Rangers won open to doubt now; not just the last few. How many of the 54 weren’t given some helping hand along the way?
The stripping of the last few might have lessened such doubts. That’s the troubling dilemma of any true Rangers’ fan now.
Basically the ball is back in Celtic’s court, again.
I know all teams in Scottish football are one way or another victims of this cheating but ultimately it is Celtic who have lost out on five titles and tens of millions of winnings and CL money.
For Celtic to acquiesce with the SPL and SFA in this outcome legitimises all that went on over the last ten years.
In fact it has become obvious that Lawell and the Celtic board operated behind the scenes in 2012 in order to keep Rangers in the SPL and thereafter in SFL1 and at last SFL3. This was done purely for financial reasons (as all RFC fans rightly claim) in spite of the greater sums of money lost to Rangers. This is financial Stockholm syndrome.
It was only pressure from the fans, Celtic’s and all others, that put the pressure on reluctant boards to refuse Newco admission to the SPL and then SF1
Again it looks like pressure again must come from the fans again.
Unless and until the Celtic board seek and obtain redress from the SPL for all the titles and monies lost through this institutional cheating then I will not set foot in CP again.
greenockjack says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 12:31
bawsbustedanatha
Realistically what are you expecting ?
99%+ of those saying that they wont be back will be unless they are looking for an excuse (tipping point) to give it up for other reason/s.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s always dangerous to judge peoples motivation especially when you don’t really know what they are thinking.
I haven’t decided yet but at the moment I’m so disgusted by this whitewash that Leanne Dempster may be receiving my season book back and I’m not fussed about a refund either.
It seems that they key evidence to LNS was provide by the SFA who said that once players are registered, they remain registered regardless of anything other than suspensions (or words to that effect).
It will be interesting to see how member clubs respond to the SFA’s views as submitted to LNS.
However, in advance of their reaction, I would encourage everyone who is unhappy with this outcome to let their own club know, in the clearest terms, what the consequences will be if they take no action.
Last close season’s planned rebellion by the fans might need something a little bit more substantial but if we do nothing, our game is dead. The SFA runs football solely to sustain Rangers/The Rangers – this must change or the game dies.
A sad day. It seems that Rangers have been found guilty and yet the most tenuous reasoning is then concocted to prevent the correct automatic punishment being applied. A straw for the establishment yes, but a straw none the less that has prevented justice from being done.
I was just about through with Scottish football 9 months ago when the rules were bent every which way to allow Sevco 5088 into the SFL3 ahead of better qualified teams. But I held on and gave it a chance. That chance has ended today. i’m left with some great memories of Aberdeen games I’ve been at or watched on TV and the last thing I want is those memories sullied by the bad taste of the last few months, but for the 45 years I’ve watched Scottish football there has always been more than a suspicion that it is run on behalf of the two big Glasgow clubs. I need no further confirmation now.
You should never say never so I’m not going to say that I will never take my Grandson to Pittodrie, like I used to take my son when he was little, just that it’s a lot less likely to ever happen without an awful lot of re-building of integrity in the Scottish game. I’ll be writing to Mr Milne and asking to be removed from his mailing list and sending my remaining Scotland tickets back to Hampden. As for a boycott on the weekend of 9th/10th March, that was going to happen already. I’ve got tickets for Murrayfield and then it’s my Grandson’s first birthday party the following day.
You see Scottish football, integrity is just as important as any other attribute when you are competing for bums on seats. In your case you have competed very badly over the years and yet you are surprised about the decline in the game.
The Bashar, over and out!
I haven’t had the chance to read the entire “judgement” but my initial feelings are thus……..
What did I expect other than a connived and horribly twisted so called justice?
If this is allowable and the present incumbents of our sport can continue to misgovern then it’s no longer a sport. It is there for the world to see that Scottish football is ruled by a defunct former member club.
Those fans who truly want to see a fair sport for all members could now lobby their clubs and insist in the dismantling of the present administrative regime. Perhaps we can look at ways in which to achieve this. Whether this be to break entirely from this tainted and complicit governing body or some other path I’m not committed yet. Time will tell.
Are we prepared to accept that those we put our trust in to run our sport can shilly shally and pander to one club?
I simply cannot accept that so much tax payers money has been misappropriated and that we are powerless to act.
blindsummit63 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 14:17
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And now onto the final stage of the greatest scam in world football history. Mark my words. Rangers will be re-instated in the SPL next season. A 100% certainty.
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And when they are, why don’t we just hand them the title? No need for minor details like sporting fairness and actually playing the games. Then we can all spend more time in the pub
So, basically, we know you deliberately cheated by deciding not to disclose the side letters (as that would show you were paying players more by reducing your tax outgoings), but because you hid it from us so well for so long, we now can’t say you were cheating so we’re not going to punish you by applying the normal 0-3 results.
Is that basically it?!?!
It’s a cheat’s charter – “make sure you cover your cheating well” – as well as complete b****x!!
I’m done.
Ben Johnson…..Seoul Olympics…….Discuss……….
Well that is it for me I am afraid. I usually visit Celtic Park once a month with my wife and son. I have broke the news to him that I shall not return, neither will I participate in boards such as the TSFM or indeed particpate in anything to do with the Scottish game henceforth. I no longer have the stomach for it. Have thoroughly enjoyed TSFM and RTC previously.
neepheid says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 13:55
Great post, kind of sums it all up.
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 14:25
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So, we’re back to wondering if UEFA will save us from ourselves? An utter joke.
————————————-
Don’t hold your breath, UEFA are not interestee. They have not been interested for the entire duration of the pantomime. To them, we are a backwater nuisance. They are a bureaucracy with no interest in getting involved in anything they don’t have to. The Rangers hymn book episode was foisted upon them as it occurred in one of their competitions and was referred to them by their own observers, which to be fair puts them light years ahead of the SFA. Even then they stated it is a Scottish cultural problem which the country tolerates and they were absolutely right.
I’ll tell you what, this is a great advert against independence
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 14:42
====================================
I think you’re wrong. I also think that Rangers wouldn’t want to be in the SPL next season. Consider the 3-0 defeat in the Scottish Cup by Dundee United performing below their best. Consider the potential for embarrassment of the current Rangers group of players playing the current group of Celtic players. Celtic’s players wouldn’t be as lackadaisical as they were last night (well done Motherwell for fully exploiting that).
bogsdollox
Most people who are “undecided” in this moment will most probably go back.
The poll (a few posts ago) has produced a landslide no going back vote thus far but unfortunately has no undecided option.
A poll in 7 days will probably produce a very different result.
I think some who have been wondering or questioning why they continue to go to the football for other reasons may use this as a tipping point if they are of this boards general opinion.
They may also feel let down by claims of nuclear info.
Robert Coyle says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 14:25
What Nimmo Smith doesn’t explain is how SPL/SFA could revoke registrations when there has been “deliberate non-disclosure.” Strange one that
==============================================================
Not really as I read it because there appears to be no power in the SPL rules to retrospectively revoke registration,
[87] Mr McKenzie explained to us that SPL Rule D1.13 had hitherto been understood to mean
that if, at the time of registration, a document was not lodged as required, the consequence was
that a condition of registration was broken and the player automatically became ineligible to play
in terms of SPL Rule D1.11.
He accepted however that there was scope for a different construction of the rule, to the effect that, as the lodging of the document in question was a condition of registration, the registration of the player would be liable to revocation, with the consequence that the player would thereafter become ineligible to play. He accepted that no provision of the Rules enabled the Board of the SPL retrospectively to terminate the registration of the player.
Did anyone out there actually think this man would remove titles of the old gers?Really?I did a short post yesterday about a whitewash that was largely ignored.This is the(totally predictable)mother of all whitewashes.
You know I actually take great comfort,in a way,from the events of the last year or so;all my suspiscions paranoia etc regards gers is now totally vindicated.I know this is a football monitoring blog,but really,this isn’t about football or even about money,well not primarily.
Last year,every effort possible was made to make sure some kind of Rangers continued,because of their position as an”establishment club”;its influence being such that rules could be construed ad hoc,and in the public domain,to allow continuance.Rangers are not just a football team,they are a vehicle for promoting the particular political,ethnic ideals of the (West of)Scotland establishment;it was never ever going to be allowed to die.Stripping of titles was also never ever going to happen.
Why now are we calling for the tearing up of season tickets and cancelling of subscriptions?Nothing has changed.All that is different is that all non rangers fans are realising they were right all along.Do not therefore make hasty decisions.Your club needs you more than ever at this time.
Put it another way,if the current Rangers went belly up now I can assure you it would somehow make it to the end of the season,and Rangers mark3 would emerge playing at Ibrox ,in the same strips etc etc etc.
So don’t be downhearted,this today is just business as usual.
For years I have been ploughing up and down from Central England every two weeks to Celtic matches. I no longer have any family in Glasgow, as they are now all deceased, so mostly my visits involve an overnight stay in an hotel, food costs and considerable fuel bills. Taking into account the ticket element, there is little left out of £300 per visit, I have been fortunate to have been able to accrue good financial resources during my working life and I have never had anything other than wilingness to plough these sums into the economy of Glasgow, in so doing making a contribution to keeping others in work. Today this willingness ends.
For the life of me I cannot accept that these EBTs were set up at Ibrox for any other reason than to recruit better quality players who could and did ensure on field success by their salaries being boosted by a scam. Rangers FC could not afford to pay the net amounts they did and that the players wanted. They could not afford both the net amounts to be paid AND the taxes. The EBTs bodyswerved the due taxes and the players went home happy with the net amounts promised……by hook or by crook.
For whatever reasons, the FTT (illogically), LNS (fudgingly) and Scotland’s football governance have disgracefully condoned such malfeasance. One is reminded of the drunk in the dock for assault and the judge asking the constable, ‘So how did he hit you constable? Well, your Honour, he kept punching and punching my fist with his eye!’ replied the cop. Some folk can, it seems, do no wrong.
Welcome to Scotland where there will be a whitewash when ‘friends’ are in distress!
I must admit that when I feel down and falling in a downward spiral towards hell, this site never fails to pick me up again. Please keep repeating, its an injustice and maybe calamero will come to your aid. He has a lot of experience when it comes to injustice. Lol.
Rule D1.13 is really quite clear:
“A Club must as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in
Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and
Amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements
providing for payment …..”
“and” is the key word in that first phrase.
So it would not have been necessary to rescind the player registration as stated in this contrived judgement, as the rule clearly states that registration and eligibility to play are BOTH impacted by any failure to provide the required paperwork.
It would be quite possible (as in this case) for a player to be registered but still not eligible to play.
Simple.
blu says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 14:49
1 0 i Rate This
————————————
I’ve no doubt there would be enough honest mistakes and administrative errors to help them along
My mind can’t help drifting back to a game at Celtic Park where 3 Rangers players were sent off, and both managers were involved in a confrontation. Only individual punished was the Celtic manager following the SFA upholding appeals by 2 players and the Rangers manager. This goes back a long long way
← A Question of Trust (Updated)
…..Nothing Has Changed…Absolutely Nothing !!!
Well well, what a shambles football is in Scotland.
If Charles Green and Jim Traynor sat in a room with a big sketch pad and some jumbo crayons I doubt they could have written a better outcome for themselves.
The sad thought I now have is that this will enhance the righteous attitude of the songsters at Berwick last week and further add an untouchable choice to their future songbooks.
To follow football in Scotland is meaningless.
This is it for me. I am off to watch the basketball with my son from now on. A spectator sport that costs under a tenner. I can watch with a beer in my hand. Sit next to an away fan and enjoy the carnival atmosphere that is free from racism and sectarianism. Simples really.
Farewell all.
So, if it hadn’t been for the fans they would have got off scot free and be plying there trade in the same league, with no debt and claiming the same history. Oh and by the way you can bet your bottom dollar that the hordes will polish up the victim mentality and feel totally vindicated. It is ALL the fault of small minded fans from small minded towns who are lucky to be allowed to play on the same pitch as there team.
Look out for AJ et al climbing out their hiding place to tell us it was all Craig Whyte. The laugh is if DM had managed to talk the bank in to continuing to prop them the 1872 original may well have dodged death.
But….hey…..that’s all in the past. We’ll tighten up the rules. Just keep buying your tickets, pies, jerseys and TV packages. If no other teams board challenges this then they are all guilty by acceptance and collusion.
Steady, lads & lasses.
This is no time to lose our heads.
And , propelled by disappointment, to throw ourselves overboard.
We have lost nothing, except a wager.
We hoped LNS would produce the right result.
But we hadn’t studied his form.
We backed a loser.
We put our faith & hope in a member of the Judiciary, thinking . . .
Our mistake.
But now we know.
And we won’t make that mistake again, will we?
We are wiser now than we were 24hrs ago.
Let this ‘setback’ serve to strengthen our resolve.
Let the dust settle.
LNS’ statement is far from watertight.
The leagles on here are sure to have a lot to say about it.
Meanwhile, the football is still better.
Tthe New Gers are still severly disabled,
And will probably continue to be so for the forseeable future.
And becoming more and more of an embarrassment with each passing week.
Ref. the statements today by CG & AMcC.
So if, like me, you feel sick to your stomach with today’s result,
It could be worse – I remember sitting watching Feyenoord win 2-1 in 1970.
Cheer up! By whatever means!
Tomorrow, you will feel better, and you will think better as well.
Remember this –
No one has more power than the fans to fix this.
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 15:08
——————————
I’ve no doubt there would be enough honest mistakes and administrative errors to help them along
My mind can’t help drifting back to a game at Celtic Park where 3 Rangers players were sent off, and both managers were involved in a confrontation. Only individual punished was the Celtic manager following the SFA upholding appeals by 2 players and the Rangers manager. This goes back a long long way
===============================================
CP , you’re entitled to your view (as expressed previously) but the 3 Rangers players were all suspended for the sending offs. Two weren’t given additional punishments, as they should have been, for manhandling the referee.
Anyway, getting my pedanticism out of the way, any thoughts on whether the SFA will be obliged to apply its rules for its competition on the basis that an administrative error justifies the overturning of a result? In the case of Spartans and East Stirlingshire these matters had to be dealt with immediately because delay would affect the progress of the tournament but that rationale doesn’t apply to the finals that Rangers played in with their wrongly registered players.
aw naw, i’d forgotten about traynor.
“GIOVANNI DI STEFANO@DEVILSADVOKAT
As GDS said all along RANGERS FC NO LOSS OF TITLES and the fine will be appealed
”
I suppose there is an outside chance that BDO will take Giovanni’s advice and appeal the fine, the appellate panel going WTF, and applyiig a more proportionate punishment, in line with precedent (Spartans et al)
Naw, I diinae think so either 😉
I still love football.
I will still watch football on BBC (free-ish) and at the wee club I now support.
I will simply not spend any money that might go to the SFA.
Here is an email I sent today to Mr Regan. I don’t expect a reply but gave my full name and address.
In it I try to say that I am not a loony and that his actions have lost me and many others like me.
………………………………………………
FAO Stewart Regan
I am 56 and have been lucky enough to have played semi professional football in my younger days.
I have been a board director of PLCs.
I understand how business and the media works.
I have also been a season ticket holder (Hearts) in the SPL with my sons and currently am a season ticket holder with what might be termed affectionately as a “diddy” club.
I have proudly followed our national team – was at Wembley in 1977 and other great scenes of triumph.
Indeed as a younger man I followed our national team to many countries including Argentina, Spain and Mexico.
Yes Scottish football has benefitted from a sizeable chunk of my disposable income over the years.
But I will not if possible (and in my control) pay any revenue to any football organised under the auspices of the SFA ever again.
The reasons for this are your actions have demonstrated that there is one set of rules for some and another set of rules for one other and I can’t accept that.
In the last 2 years I think the following actions taken on behalf of the SFA are the reasons why you have lost many fans like me and indeed have probably lost the nation and alienated the silent majority.
And as John Stein famously said – “Without the fans there is nothing”.
Here is my short list of reasons.
1 Your failure to follow the rules when Rangers FC did not submit accounts on 2011 for their Champions League entry requirement and were still granted a licence (I’d question Campbell Ogilvie’s role or influence here).
2 The 5 way agreement that offered entry of a brand new company into the SPL when they did not meet the entry criteria. And when that was knocked back by the fan’s reaction you somehow created a temporary status to let them into the 3rd division ahead of licence holding non-league clubs. And you sneaked in the announcement during the Olympic Opening Ceremony to minimise bad publicity.
3 The various delays instigated for dealing with the toxic member whom you knew was insolvent. Dunfermline should never have been relegated and Dundee never promoted had you simply followed your rules.
4 Today’s summary by Lord Nimmo Smith shows that there is one rule for The Rangers and another for Salvesen Boys Club, Annan Youth Team, Spartans FC and others.
If you can’t operate your business using your rules fairly and without fear or favour then you should move on.
And I am sorry Mr Regan but your legacy will not be viewed favourably in future annals, b ut as a nadir.
But please also accept my congratulations for today.
Today has been well coordinated, in fact beautifully orchestrated by your team – going back to last summer.
You got the result you wanted and you controlled the delivery of it too.
But is is also a very very sad day for Scottish Football.
Probably the saddest because it just reinforces how far we have fallen.
I personally feel you and all those connected with the 5 way agreement should consider their positions and resign.
Address etc
paranoid? naw
from CQN
Alexander (Sandy) Bryson has been mentioned in reports concerning another controversial matter in SFA history. He was Head of Registrations when Celtic tried to register Jorge Cadete in 1996. That case led to SFA chief executive, Jim Farry, being dismissed for gross misconduct after he failed to register the player in time for him to face Rangers in a Scottish Cup tie.
The Burness report into what happened noted that Farry “deflected responsibility to Mr (Sandy] Bryson (head of registrations] …. (on] certain executive decisions”. In a contemporary article, Mirror Group Newspapers noted “it is unclear what part registration chief Sandy Bryson may have played in this debacle”.
onceabhoy says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 15:21
“So, if it hadn’t been for the fans they would have got off scot free and be plying there trade in the same league, with no debt and claiming the same history.”
Amid all the furore of today’s decision let’s not forget what has actually been achieved.
I remember in the early days of RTC he/she suggested that Rangers would probably get off with a large fine and continue in the SPL but it would financially cripple the club for many years . Many of posters were not pleased with that , myself included, there was even fears that RTC’s account was somehow hacked .
Rangers FC(IL) suffered the ignominy of administration before the fatal blow of Liquidation . That Club is now dead . My late father supported that Club but it would not have let me play for it even if I was as gifted as Pele and I mourn it not one bit .
A new Rangers club now languishes in the bottom tier of the SFL . It will inevitably move back to the SPL . All football fans must now ensure , through representations to their respective clubs , that history can never repeat itself .
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 15:37
2 0 Rate This
paranoid? naw
from CQN
Alexander (Sandy) Bryson has been mentioned in reports concerning another controversial matter in SFA history. He was Head of Registrations when Celtic tried to register Jorge Cadete in 1996. That case led to SFA chief executive, Jim Farry, being dismissed for gross misconduct after he failed to register the player in time for him to face Rangers in a Scottish Cup tie.
The Burness report into what happened noted that Farry “deflected responsibility to Mr (Sandy] Bryson (head of registrations] …. (on] certain executive decisions”. In a contemporary article, Mirror Group Newspapers noted “it is unclear what part registration chief Sandy Bryson may have played in this debacle”
—————————————————————————————————————
You can actually taste the corruption. Ogilvie must be laughing at all fans outwith Sevco.
I will not step inside Hampden for the rest of this season to start with. My season book renewal will not take place next season if my club stays silent over this debacle.
The next couple of months could really see the start of the end of Scottish football.
Get the chequebook oot…
Are Sevco still facing the prospect of
lower division football next season?
Check!
Are Sevco running at a loss whilst filling
their stadium every second week? Check!
Are they still run by a con man? Check!
Are the zombies none the wiser as to
who actually own’s them? Check!
Are they still managed by probably their
worst manager of all time? Check!
Will Celtic always be there to rub their
noses in their cheating filth? CHECK!
manandboy says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 15:22
Steady, lads & lasses.
———————————————–
The essence of competition is that all teams play by the same rules. This is something structurally different to that, and I do not believe that the fans can fix it.
Remember to add Brechin City’s name to the list of clubs penalised for ineligible players ie thrown out of the cup. Two players that shouldn’t have played against Hamilton in 2008. I suppose the MSM will be anxious to draw these comparisons tomorrow. Won’t they?
I have read this and other forums regularly for a long time although admit rarely contributed. I appreciate the input from the regulars and wish you well, but I’ve had enough, im all but finished with corrupt Scottish football.
Ogilvie/Regan/Doncaster and their old palls Peat, G smith etc can have it and do with it whatever they like. I know the FTT and today’s decision have been made by legal experts, im related to a lawyer (criminal – I know) and fully aware of the inconsistencies and more bizarre aspects of law in this country.
I’ve not bought newspapers for years and stopped reading DR online long before they pulled the comments section that attracted so much hate – and I don’t mean comments from the “Rangers Haters”. So the bookmarks/favourites are being removed from the phone/laptop. When a friend or the boss offer me their season ticket for Celtic, I will kindly decline. Peter Lawell’s powder must have moulded over or just blown in the wind.
When a friend starts up any conversation around Scottish football I will quickly change the subject. Recent conversations haven’t been much fun with my Rangers supporting friends anyway. In fact they have left me wondering just how much the decent fans (these friends are definitely more than decent guys) have been unsure where to go, they seem to have allowed the whataboutery and lack of remorse enters their point of view. I wish Strachan all the best but I won’t be following that journey either.
I’ll have one last involvement, it may contradict the above but is something I have intended to do for the past 5 years: I will be buying my oldest boy an Accies scarf (local team) and taking him to a game before the end of the season, before he starts school in August. After all the school playground is where he will first hear some of the stuff that gets passed around as “banter” in Scotland, he doesn’t and won’t hear it at home, he doesn’t need any of that baggage, maybe the local team angle will work , time will tell.
I now look forward to getting the Scottish Football ENERGY VAMPIRE of my back. My commute to work will be used to read those books I haven’t got around to, or listen to that music I haven’t yet checked out. Spring is around the corner and I will soon be busy with my seedlings, so I’m on garden leave from Scottish football.
Best Wishes
Garden Bhoy
The Legacy of all of this will be
RFC got away with registering players they could not afford
RFC got liquidated
RFC still may lose the big tax case
A new RFC plays in division 3
It has a break in its history due to liquidation
NO fan of other clubs will ever see new rangers as the old club
This all seems that it was the plan from the outset, the only part that went wrong was putting the new RFC into the SPL and without fan power this would have happened.
I stated that the LNS inquiry was pointless and was just another little wheeze to try and muddy the old club new club distinction and it has delivered.
I do not know what a club is now, it can be bought and sold but holds no legal status, it appears to hold no assets, nothing. It is like a religion, relying on believers that it actually exists..
One thing clear to me from the decision is that, to have found RFC in breach of eligibility, LNS and Mr McKenzie would have had to say they knew registration rules better than the SFA Head Of Registrations.
Reading all the posts about “not going back” or “not renewing season tickets” my response is..
If all decent fans do this, the Cheats have won. I can understand the disappointment and even anger at the watered down punishment. But LNS confirmed in writing RFC DID CHEAT. Also that they are a NEWCO with ZERO HISTORY.
No doubt the msm will spin it as a “great victory” but in truth the Govan team are very seriously injured both in reputation and in a playing sense.
Their playing squad is a shadow of their EBT era. They may get back to the SPL quicker with the help of disengenous SFA/SPL employees, but even then it will take them another 5 years minimum to even get close to the level Celtic are at just now.
I am proud to be a Celtic fan, and I can hold my head up knowing my club and the other Scottish clubs DID NOT CHEAT. I will be renewing my season ticket and I hope all other fans of all clubs do the same. Together we are stronger and will make Scottish football fairer in the future.
Only one club cheated Rangers Football Club.
Reset your clock, brenda, kit deal announced
http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/3459-rangers-announce-new-kit-deal
blu says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 15:25
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Oh that’s right, there “wasn’t enough evidence” to apply a further ban, other than footage from about 20 different camera angles, in much the same Orwellian way as LNS says players weren’t registered properly but were still eligible to play. And of course Callum Murray the referee involved was only too happy to testify that although manhandled by Bougherra, he was manhandled in a friendly non-threatening way !
Hands up who thinks the SFA would’ve upheld Neil Lennon’s appeal if there had been one???
Quite.
Look at the faces of these two….. classic dropped a fiver and found a tenner…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/13040832
Whether TRFC want to be in the SPL or not is actually irrelevant to my original post anyway, which was in essence saying we might as well put them there and hand them the trophy as its what the machinations of the authorities throughout the Scottish game are geared to. Sport?? Pah! Who can afford to have such lofty notions
Giving up with all of this corruption in Scottish Football. Might look in from time to time, the blog yes, football never again.
Time to get the fishing gear out.
timalloy67 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:18
“They may get back to the SPL quicker with the help of disengenous SFA/SPL employees”
“They may get back into the SPL quicker with the help of the leaders of our clubs who collude with them,”
There fixed that for you
timalloy67 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:18
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Reading all the posts about “not going back” or “not renewing season tickets” my response is..
If all decent fans do this, the Cheats have won
——————————————————
Horse, barn door, bolted – the cheats have won.
Today has proved that no-one in a position of authority has the stomach to apply the rules fairly at best, at worst, are actively colluding to perpetuate the interests of the Establishment club.
To continue to play along on the terms of these corrupt bodies like a mug is to validate them.
Let them have their hollow tainted victories and drown themselves in a pond of their own bile. I will be turning my back on it.
I refuse to validate the treachery
They can enjoy their victories in the manner that Scotland enjoyed a “victory” over Estonia in 1996 when they failed to turn up. Let them bask in the glory of their magnficent achievement in systematically cheating the rest of Scottish football. I want nothing to do with their rigged game
A UK league is something that would interest me but Scottish football is done
timalloy67 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:18
Reading all the posts about “not going back” or “not renewing season tickets” my response is..
If all decent fans do this, the Cheats have won.
——————————————
Rangers didn’t cheat. The point is, however, that the only reason I can say that is because the system has been extended retrospectively to encompass what they did. The lesson is to expect that any future discrepancies, administrative errors, secret agreements, conflicts of interest and the like will be treated in the same way. What was obvious cheating one day will turn out the next day not to have been, even if it takes some sophisticated legal logic to verify it.
Scottish football isn’t the only area of sport where the demons outnumber the saints – the Tour de France, a range of Australian sports, athletics etc have all been shown up to be sham in different ways. But I have no problem with anyone who would prefer to invest their time, energy, money and allegiance in a different country’s league or another sport where the interest (at least apparently) lies on the field of play.
timalloy67 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:18
5 0 Rate This
Reading all the posts about “not going back” or “not renewing season tickets” my response is..
If all decent fans do this, the Cheats have won. I can understand the disappointment and even anger at the watered down punishment. But LNS confirmed in writing RFC DID CHEAT. Also that they are a NEWCO with ZERO HISTORY.
No doubt the msm will spin it as a “great victory” but in truth the Govan team are very seriously injured both in reputation and in a playing sense.
Their playing squad is a shadow of their EBT era. They may get back to the SPL quicker with the help of disengenous SFA/SPL employees, but even then it will take them another 5 years minimum to even get close to the level Celtic are at just now.
I am proud to be a Celtic fan, and I can hold my head up knowing my club and the other Scottish clubs DID NOT CHEAT. I will be renewing my season ticket and I hope all other fans of all clubs do the same. Together we are stronger and will make Scottish football fairer in the future.
Only one club cheated Rangers Football Club
——————————————————————————————————————
Fine sentiments, but the future will be upon us before you know it. MSM, SFA, SPL and parliamentary figures have shown the lengths they went to so as the govan club would survive this period of time. Can you imagine their joy when they return to the top as they will (with all the before mentioned aids). And the lengths the a fore mentioned will do to make sure they remain there.
We can support our teams as you have mentioned, but legally in their eyes they have won and will carry on the mantle of WATP and sadly as this moment in time seems to have has confirmed this. This was the chance and time to change things, if not now then it will NEVER change.
They seem to use EBT’s in a dodgy way,dodgy relationship with the BOS, they seem to have been given a dodgy licencee, they seemed to have registered players in a dodgy way, they sing dodgy songs, they in the past had a dodgy anti catholic signing policy..
But somehow in our wee country they DODGE punishment.
At this moment the future does not seem bright.
majorcoverup says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 15:05
1 0 Rate This
Rule D1.13 is really quite clear:
“A Club must as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in
Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and
Amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements
providing for payment …..”
“and” is the key word in that first phrase.
So it would not have been necessary to rescind the player registration as stated in this contrived judgement, as the rule clearly states that registration and eligibility to play are BOTH impacted by any failure to provide the required paperwork.
It would be quite possible (as in this case) for a player to be registered but still not eligible to play.
Simple.
————–
This is the single best post on this farce that I have read.
“A Club must as a condition of Registration AND for a Player to be eligible to Play in
Official Matches…”
So yes, fine, according to LNS’s reading of the SPL/SFA rules, the players were correctly registered. But as you’ve pointed out, this does not allow him to conclude the players were therefore eligible to play.
So we should be back to square one. The players were clearly ineligible and the consequence should be a 0-3 result for every relevant RFC game. Very strong case for *somebody* to appeal today’s decision, no?
Or can anybody point out where majorcoverup is wrong? Because from where I’m sitting it looks like he/she had nailed the major blunder by His Lordship.
timalloy67 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:18
but even then it will take them another 5 years minimum to even get close to the level Celtic are at just now.
——————————————-
So it’s OK for them to be above the level of other Scottish clubs, just not Celtic?
Including Hearts and Dundee Utd who they stiffed as part of their switcheroo.
The only thing that will change anything is if the game is brought to its knees financially by fans walking away – it was only the threat of this last summer that prevented Sevco catapulting straight into the SPL or Div1 (catapulted NOT parachuted). Continuing to blindly finance a setup geared to put the interests of the Establishment club ahead of everyone else is stupid. If Celtic come out with some form of positive action such as a vote of no confidence in the SFA/SPL board then I might possibly maybe be swayed but although saddened that Celtic will have to suffer I can no longer support a sham game.
All I want is to turn up to watch a football competition which my team has a fair chance of winning, along with other teams. I am not interested in some sort of righteous crusade against injustice. Maybe many years ago but now all I want is to watch a fair footbal cimpetition and there are many higher quality alternatives around the world. On my doorstep in fact
nowoldandgrumpy
Careful you don´t catch anything “nuclear” when fishing.
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:26
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blu says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 15:25
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You’re obviously off on one but In replying to my posts can you at least quote me? Any fresh reader would assume that I was saying the polar opposite to you about the sending offs in that last OF match rather than agreeing with you.
On your final point, I’ll re-state Rangers would not want to be in the SPL in season 2013-14 for fear of getting walloped.
Lastly, in response to the dismay evident in your and many other posts on this site about the conclusion of both the FTTT and LNS inquiry, where the published evidence pointed to tax laws and football rules having been contravened, Rangers didn’t win either. The club calling itself Rangers is playing at the lowest level of Scottish professional football, continues to pursue an absurd business model – think, even Niall Alexanders half-wage offer in SFL 3 is crazy and unnecessary. How some can call that victory is beyond me.
Cheers,
blu
timalloy67 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:18
” But LNS confirmed in writing RFC DID CHEAT”
————–
No they didn’t!
Big Pink says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 13:11
…in my view the verdict today was political and not made on the basis of the above principles…
==============================
Totally agree with that statement BP.
And as Spock would say to Captain Kirk, [if he was talking about the LNS reasoning]:
“That is illogical, Captain.”
The ball is now firmly back with the fans: how will they react ?
Perhaps an easy decision for myself and my family as we can only attend matches in Scotland infrequently – but I do feel sympathy for season ticket holders who maybe now face their own dilemma.
I shouldn’t really be shocked about the outcome today…but I am. 🙁
well, if you are an investing sort of person, wouldn’t this be the ideal time to pick up some fairly cheap rangers shares…
guaranteed league collusion, therefore, guaranteed promotion (it’s for the good of Scottish football after all…you would be actually helping the diddy teams!).
And for those who read the LNS output as proving two clubs, I didn’t read it that way either.
Note how the Club is referred to as Rangers FC in the purchased assets and also as the club playing in the S3 Div
[7] On 14 June 2012 a newly incorporated company, Sevco Scotland Limited, purchased
substantially all the business and assets of Oldco, including Rangers FC,, by entering into an asset sale and purchase agreement with the joint administrators. The name of Sevco Scotland Limited was subsequently changed to The Rangers Football Club Limited. We shall refer to this company as Newco.
[8] Newco was not admitted to membership of the SPL. Instead it became the operator of
Rangers FC within the Third Division of the Scottish Football League (“the SFL”).
Note here: Rangers FC treated as distinct and apart from both NewCo and OldCo
[10] …The fourth chapter alleges that during the period:
• 15 March 2012 to 1 August 2012 (period 4)
Oldco (then in administration) and Rangers FC, in breach of the relevant Rules of the SPL, failed to assist the SPL and to respond to requests for documents in relation to payments by Oldco to Rangers players. The Notice of Commission was served on Oldco, Newco and Rangers FC by letters dated 2 August 2012.
[12] …
2. Oldco and Rangers FC , who are named in the Issues contained in the Notice of
Commission and alleged to have been in breach of Rules, will continue to have the right
to appear and be represented at all hearings of the Commission and to make such
submissions as they think fit.
3. Newco, as the current owner and operator of Rangers FC , although not alleged by the SPL to have committed any breach of Rules, will also have the right to appear and be represented at all hearings of the Commission and to make such submissions as it thinks
fit.
And MOST compelling of all:
[14] …
(4) There were sanctions which could be imposed in terms of the Rules which were
capable of affecting Rangers FC as a continuing entity now owned and operated by
Newco.
And reading through that of course, it is only right that NewCo not be liable for the misdeeds of the previous owning company.