Everything Has Changed

ByTrisidium

Everything Has Changed

The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.

It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”

The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.

The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.

But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.

David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.

The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte.  In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.

Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).

If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.

The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.

Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.

To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.

If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?

First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.

So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?

Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.

Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?

Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.

What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?

Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?

Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.

And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?

Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”

As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.

I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.

The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?

And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?

Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.

I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

4,442 Comments so far

FinlochPosted on11:24 am - Mar 5, 2013


valentinesclown says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:22
………………………………………………………………….
Brilliant insight.

You have just written a new slogan for the SFA, SFL,SPL administrators and our duplicitous clubs.

“Favour without Fear”.

That beautifully encapsulates our administrations treatment of their special club over the years and especially recently.

It is directly contradictory to our mantra “Without Fear or Favour”.

And now after last week’s stage-managed whitewash Regan is cajoling us all to move on in his post armageddon “Favours without Fear” New World. (which all my instincts tell me also includes an early kick up for the Govan Club).

Its not time to move on Mr Regan – its time for a clear out of the corruption that led to the 5 way agreement.

We need to let our clubs know if they follow him they will leave a lot of us and our revenue streams behind.

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Robert CoylePosted on11:25 am - Mar 5, 2013


lol,anyone subscribe to the times

Ian Fraser ‏@Ian_Fraser
SFO rocked by corruption and cronyism claims http://thetim.es/15uUDuo #bustedflush
View summary Reply Retweet Favorite More

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3704791.ece

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jimlarkinPosted on11:27 am - Mar 5, 2013


rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:30

Douglas Fraser ‏@BBCDouglsFraser
The numbers that matter for #Rangers’ recovery, and where Hearts is heading. My blog: http://bbc.in/12poyq9

can someone with a twit=ter account

please ask douglasfraser if he has been on a sabbitical

. . . rangers most certainly can’t recover

. . . as rangers are being liquidated !!!

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Madbhoy24941Posted on11:30 am - Mar 5, 2013


Senior says:

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:41

‘Credit where it is due, well done Charles Green!’

I suspect tongue-in-cheek time?

———————————–

I think a lot are missing the real point I was trying to make Senior. I don’t trust CG in any manner or form but any statement coming from an official of Rangers is a message that has never been conveyed before now. It doesn’t matter the motivation (and believe me I know there is one), what matters is that it has been made and now the debate will start. It is an acceptance that there is a problem, it is an acknowledgement that contrary to popular reports, Rangers are not a global brand.

So I repeat and make no apologies for doing so… “well done Charles Green”.

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larsson07Posted on11:31 am - Mar 5, 2013


I have been an avid reader of both this site and also RTC over the last year or so hoping that finally justice would be delivered in what I consider not only the biggest scandal in Scottish football but given the knock on implications I believe this to be the biggest in world sporting history … If anyone can provide details of anything that even comes close then feel free .
I don’t confess to be anything of an expert on legal issues or the rules that govern football … I’m just an ordinary fan who works hard and struggles like most to pay for my season ticket every year to follow my team … All I ever ask is that when I go to a match is both teams abide by the same rules and win lose or draw my team has given their all and have been given the same chance as our opponents to be successful … Within the laws of the game … Not to much to ask surely … If my team operates out with the laws of the game then I would expect the appropriate measures to be applied as per the rules.
Without getting into the finer details of the events of the last year we now all know this is not the case and have witnessed the people in positions of power abuse their positions to favour one club at the expense of all others … I have watched in disbelief as these people ignore or reinvent the rules of the game to suit only one outcome .
I have watched you guys dissect all the issues and its been a fascinating journey … I have now come to the conclusion that no matter what evidence is found in this case … And I honestly don’t believe for a minute that we know half of what has went on behind the scenes … There will never be anything near justice handed out … The rules will be continue to be ignored … Bent … Reinvented until the club playing in govan are back sitting at the top of Scottish football … I have now sent a letter to the ticket office instructing them that I now no longer wish to be a part of this corruption and for them to remove my name from their season ticket mailing list for next season … I honestly feel like there has been a death in the family right now having took this decision but I really don’t believe I have any other choice … Either my club and every other club who has any dignity or ounce of sporting integrity calls for the removal of Mr Ogilvie … Mr Regan … Mr Doncaster … Mr Bryson and Mr Longmuir from their positions in our game or goes to uefa and demand to be allowed to play in a league elsewhere that is free from corruption on a par with match fixing then I’m out for good along with my father and 2 sons and also a few friends who feel the same … There will be no appeal to lord nimmo there will be nothing done by strathclydes finest or the BDO … The tax case appeal will be heard and even if its overturned there will be no meaningfull sanctions imposed … It’s time to move on as they say … Only not in the way they wish us to … It’s time we moved out of Scottish football on masse … Every club and every fan who feels aggrieved … A final point … We keep hearing about their being a nuclear event coming along … My question is How Nuclear does it have to be is it not nuclear enough already .

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scapaflow14Posted on11:33 am - Mar 5, 2013


Senior

SPL clubs leaving en masse? Frankly, I’ll belive it when I see it. If there is any substance to this rumour, it is much more likely to be a negoitiating tactic, because the SPl clubs want something. Based on the performance of the SPL board to date, I would not bet the farm on that something being anything the fans will like. Reasons for saying that?

1. Is Aunt Sally Doncaster still in place? YES
2. Has Aunt Sally Doncaster just had a very nice pay rise, no doubt for services rendered? YES

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dentarthurdent42Posted on11:36 am - Mar 5, 2013


ekt1m says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 23:53

Sorry, there may be some confusion.

I’m talking about The Rangers Football Club Ltd, which does exist as a legal entity. It is a limited company whose shares are wholly owned by Rangers International PLC.

I was enquiring what it actually did, as a business. If Rangers International is dealing with season tickets, sponsorship, expenses, salaries etc then is Rangers FC Ltd merely a shell, which can be sold on when it is convenient to do so.

However, who owns the assets, I assume by the interims that is also Rangers International as they seem to have included them.

One would almost suspect that Rangers FC Ltd was going to be sold on as a going concern, perhaps carrying on the business of a football club, but without owning any of the tangible assets like the stadium and training ground.

Selling itas a going concern would be fairly straightforward, as the holding company owns all of the shares so would be in a position to do it whenever it wanted. Mr Green also controls the board of both the Holding Company and the Limited Company, so no problems there.

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georgiovasariPosted on11:46 am - Mar 5, 2013


‘In fact it seems like favours are done without fear when it applies to one team’

Quite superb quote there but it should read ‘ Favours were done BECAUSE of fear.

This is simply what it all boils down to.

The majority of us know what has happened here. My allegiences don’t fall with Sevco or Celtic may i add and i couldn’t give a flying fling about the titles, They have cheated. Our judiciary and the Yellow bellied Scottish Football governing bodies have been too frightened of the consequences throughout this entire debacle.

What a sad and very disturbing state of affairs we have in Scotland. I detest witnessing this subservience to intimidation and fear but i am not surprised that it continues and is effective

Lord Nimmo Smith just didn’t fancy it . There can be no other reason why he came to the conclusion that he did . Aye, guilty verdict but noone had the guts to do the right thing.Who would wish to have some stranger knock at the door or receive bullets through the post or god only knows what else.

The ‘Social Unrest’ comment by Regan further demonstrates my point and all of the evidence points to this not changing any time soon.

Favouritism runs all the way through the cloistered corridors of power. It is much easier just to toe the party line.

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tomtomPosted on11:56 am - Mar 5, 2013


wottpi says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 11:13

tomtomaswell says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 11:04

To be fair I looked at RM and while there are some ‘outdated contributors’ that you can pick from there are plenty saying enough is enough.

e.g If you think these songs are more important than the club then take it elsewhere, we don’t agree with it nor want it.

—————————–

I don’t visit any RFC sites so I’m not aware, other than from what gets posted on here, of the views of their more reasonable fans. If there is a sea change taking place then it can only be for the better but experience has taught me that any protests are minimal and soon shot down.

Hopefully this might just be the straw that breaks this particular camels back. We can but hope.

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arabest1Posted on11:59 am - Mar 5, 2013


league wher only Rangers and token fodder play in a meaningless league to provide mindless viewing for the peepil
———————————————————————————————————————–
Pretty much how it felt in the 1990’s!

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:18 pm - Mar 5, 2013


dentarthurdent42 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 11:36
2 0 Rate This
ekt1m says:
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 23:53

Sorry, there may be some confusion.

I’m talking about The Rangers Football Club Ltd, which does exist as a legal entity. It is a limited company whose shares are wholly owned by Rangers International PLC.

I was enquiring what it actually did, as a business. If Rangers International is dealing with season tickets, sponsorship, expenses, salaries etc then is Rangers FC Ltd merely a shell, which can be sold on when it is convenient to do so.

However, who owns the assets, I assume by the interims that is also Rangers International as they seem to have included them.

One would almost suspect that Rangers FC Ltd was going to be sold on as a going concern, perhaps carrying on the business of a football club, but without owning any of the tangible assets like the stadium and training ground.

Selling it as a going concern would be fairly straightforward, as the holding company owns all of the shares so would be in a position to do it whenever it wanted. Mr Green also controls the board of both the Holding Company and the Limited Company, so no problems there.

——————————————–

So, who is paying the players – RIFC PLC or TRFC Ltd

Who are they registered with at the SFA? can’t be RIFC PLC – as they are not a football club/SFL member/SFA member

Are 3rd party payment rules being breached here? Or are players incorrectly registered? (imagine that!)

Or does the registration state that players are employed by RIFC PLC and being paid by them – and if so, did the players all TUPE over again in December when RIFC PLC was formed

So many administration questions on this

I would look up the rule book of the SFL and SFA – but is there any point? if rules are being breached, they will be ignored or mr Bryson will simply have to get creative again.

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yakutsukiPosted on12:23 pm - Mar 5, 2013


madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 11:30

4

1

Rate This

============================================================

I get your point Madbhoy, but don’t agree.

I was taught to “Question my motives” when I was being brought up. This simple message has helped me on numerous occasions.

I will only praise CG when the end result becomes apparent. There has always been a hidden agenda behind everything he has done previously. If peepil want to trust him, fair enough.

I think this guy will stoop to any depths to fulfil his plans. Even world record levels maybe?

His latest statement, for me was too OTT given his recent form. It’s not consistent with anything.

The cynic in me wouldn’t be surprised if someone has requested he come out with something
due to the recent highlighting of unsavoury chanting. Maybe a wee slap on the wrist will be the result due to CG’s ‘attempts’ to eradicate the problem.

I might be way off the mark here, but as I said, I would not be surprised if it were true given
the peepil we are dealing with.

Oh, great timing with the John Daly thing too. Just a coincidence? Who knows? Hats off if
it was serious, but I think even if it progressed, they would find a hitch. Then they could claim “At least we tried!”

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ShooperbPosted on12:26 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Andrew Woods says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:24

I think , for once, we can give him the benefit of the doubt. I know the expectation is that it’s been done, not because it’s the right thing to do, but because it’s needed to attract investors and sponsors to TRFC.

However, to be fair to Charles, the quotes he’s given to the Telegraph were a pretty brave thing to do. I can’t remember any previous Ibrox chairman being so unambigious in their condemnation.

You could argue that’s he’s helped to stir it up in the last few months, and he’s about to reap what he’s sown, but even still, credit where it’s due.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on12:55 pm - Mar 5, 2013


I’m sure CG’s new opinion on sectarian singing will be warmly embraced by tomorrow’s fish suppers.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on12:59 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 12:18

Exactly.

Which entity owns which assets.

Which entity holds the players registrations

Which entity is paying the players salaries

Which entity is collecting income

Which entity is paying debts.

If all of the above is Rangers International PC, what exactly is Rangers FC Ltd reponsible for. It couldn’t just be to obviate any issues with pesky fans if the real owners wanted to make a sale to some other interested party. Or to distance the assets if there were to be a further issue with the club.

I think the bottom line is that looking at the interims is pretty meaningless, made worse by not knowing exactly what was going on with the Ltd Co it owns. Looking at audited accounts for both is really the only way to understand things.

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Galling fiverPosted on1:06 pm - Mar 5, 2013


I am truely saddened by the steady stream of posters declaring their disgust and retirement from our game.

I was lifted a little by the CFC statement last week, but that was last week. Every day that passes without redress is filtering the football men out of our game, I won’t be part of whats left.

I have waited a very long time to see my team play the way they did at home to Juve, win loose or draw I will be filled with pride on Wednesday night.

And it is with ridiculously strong emotion for a grown man, I say this will be my last game.

It’s a total turn around for me. No good came of yesterdays wee get together, which resulted in ST of DUFC announcing his wish to move along. This fella has been in for more slack than most recently, and if he says it’s time to chuck it, I believe him.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on1:08 pm - Mar 5, 2013


RIFC plc, it would seem, is simply the holding company for the “Rangers” group. There is no evidence (that I’ve seen) that RIFC plc are trading in their own name and appear to have no assets except shares in its subsidiary company, the association football club, TRFC Ltd.

The recently released interim accounts are for the entire group; though essentially only for TRFC Ltd – as the primary trading company in the group.

It is interesting that the TRFC Ltd accounts are being presented as the consolidated accounts of RIFC plc. By presenting interim group results it is not necessary to disclose any/all internal group transactions. If the TRFC Ltd accounts were shown in isolation, any “internal debt” they are carrying would need to be listed quite clearly.

It would also be clear from TRFC Ltd accounts what assets that they (the new association football club) own in their own right.

Interesting also that the SFA require the club’s (TRFC Ltd) audited accounts and do not require group accounts.

Will this be a problem for the new club? Naw, probably not!

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HirsutePursuitPosted on1:12 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Just another thought.

If a club is not a company & has no legal personality, how can any club submit accounts?

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manandboyPosted on1:23 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Sat down this morning on the WC as usual and lo and behold I noticed a spider in the bath, frantically trying to climb up the side of the bath but to no avail. His problem was obvious – he couldn’t get a grip.

Made me think of New Gers. ( I know, it’s very sad, you don’t have to tell me, my wife does that.

They can’t get a grip either – on just about anything to do with being a good football club:-
finances,
integrity,
sectarian singing,
discipline,
the rules,
liquidation,
Green,
reality,
etc, etc.

But until they do, then, like the spider in the bath who keeps slipping back down, they haven’t a hope of climbing out of their predicament , despite the best efforts of SR, CO, ND, DL, LNS , SB, SPL, SFA, SFL and uncle Tom Cobbley.

And the spider? He’s still in the bath. I’m gonna give him a name.

Gonna call him ‘Slip’ which is taken from this line in one of Paul Simon’s songs.

‘Believe we’re gliding down the highway, when in fact we’re slip sliding away ‘

Here boy . . .

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on1:23 pm - Mar 5, 2013


HirsutePursuit says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 13:12
1 0 Rate This
Just another thought.

If a club is not a company & has no legal personality, how can any club submit accounts?

===========================

well, when TRFC Ltd fail to do it, i guess we’ll find out when they present their defence to the SFA/SFL investigation into it

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briggsbhoyPosted on1:46 pm - Mar 5, 2013


TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 05:13

Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 08:15

Somewhere in my loft I have a suitcase containing various pieces of paperwork kept by my late father amongst which is evidence of tax avoidance by close relatives of the “respected” gentleman you refer to. Of no use to anyone now as the gentlemen involved are long gone deid and buried, I keep it for sentimental reasons. It was my fathers insurance policy against any change in his employment status. Whilst being a very trusted employee he was not one of them, if you know what I mean, in the club so to speak. He had often met the gentleman mentioned.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on1:52 pm - Mar 5, 2013


HirsutePursuit says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 13:08

=================

Right, so the interims are for the whole group, as opposed to just the PLC. I wonder why i didn’t get that straight away. I thought the PLC was preparing interim accounts to present to AIM.

They are basically treating it as if it is all just one big legal entity. So in reality there could be for example loans from the PLC to the Ltd Co, which it then used to pay those wages it speaks about.

The Club could actually be in debt to the Holding company, as Whyte did with Wavetower originally.

Like I said, without seing audited accounts for both the PLC and the Ltd and comparing the two it is difficult to get any meaningful picture.

I’m not accusing them of mendacity, or even duplicity obviously. You may think so, I couldn’t possibly comment.

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texaspedroPosted on1:54 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Strong worded statement by Green, one that resisted the temptation to say “what about what others sing”, which makes a welcome change.

This will get mixed reaction from Rangers supporters – some are definately with him on this, and others…well, sadly, it might encourage them to sing more in defiance. Hopefully not.

No doubt there are possible other motives for speaking now (to deflect from financial performance, to stem off further critisism, to calm down investors) but it should be welcomed.

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arabest1Posted on1:58 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Galling fiver says:
———————————————————————————–

I too am saddened and disgusted at events of the last year, but in other ways I am delighted and enthused. Go back a year and NO-ONE, could have predicted the events that were to follow.

Let’s start with the bad stuff; Weak leadership, more concerned with their bonus than anything else. Men who know nothing of football, and less about Scottish football, they may well have given good interviews and presented a 1st class MBA (More Bollox from America), and they may still see no sense whatever in excluding tRFC from the SPL considering the financial climate and limited audiences, (I know, I know) but advised by old guards such as CO the whole package was never fit for purpose. The tangible sense of injustice that has engulfed this board, at various points, never more than this last week, is understandable but ultimately forlorn. Scottish football is small beer I’m afraid, if the Government will hand over trillions to the banks to bail out reckless borrowing and lending without a single condition, they will not endlessly pursue the likes of RFC, who HMRC have already executed as far as I can see. As for accusations of ‘pheonixism’, who police’s this? Who takes action? Who cares? It happens every day on a far larger scale than the relatively small scale corruption down Govan/Hampden way. Remember the annual turnover of RFC (then, now, or ever) is dwarfed by an average edge of town supermarket, it’s not ‘Big Business’, not in the overall frame of things.

So where do we go now? The fabric of the game has been slashed and the damage may well be beyond repair, but I would urge everyone to factor in the notion that this state of affairs is nothing new, indeed in the future the authorities know fans will not be trampled over without a fight and fans are demanding to know what happens in the corridors of power. Had this happened even a decade ago it the whole story would have been smothered and we, the paying customers would not have known anything about it. I have been heartened by the discussions on this board (and RTC) over the last while, the age of the Bampot is at hand, we forced the agenda, we have affected the discourse of the MSM in ways I never thought possible, and we will continue to ‘ask the questions the media won’t’. For me RFC are history, as is their history, they simply did not make it out of insolvency. I fully understand why fans of RFC/tRFC cannot entertain such notions, they will continue to admire the emperors new garments because……….. they have to……not me I am liberated, and will never concede the newco guff, and will taunt them mercilessly for decades, and they will just have to suck it up.

This may lead to an era of intense tribalism and even polarisation of Scottish football……….no real change there either then! 😉

I urge everyone get out to a game this weekend, any game and remember why we care, breath the fresh spring air and most important, leave delusion to the deluded……….

View Comment

valentinesclownPosted on2:04 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Stephen Thompson states draw a line and move on. How do D Utd fans feel about this.

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broganrogantrevinoandhoganPosted on2:19 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Good Afternoon,

Just a story

The tale of the great Belli

http://wp.me/p1G95H-I7

BRTH

View Comment

Carl31 (@C4rl31)Posted on2:20 pm - Mar 5, 2013


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-21663614

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on2:29 pm - Mar 5, 2013


If only they played under the SFA rules

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21653613

Glentoran II face losing Steel Cup over player eligibility blunder

Glentoran could be stripped of their Christmas Day Steel and Sons Cup triumph if they are found to have fielded an ineligible player.
The Irish Premiership club’s reserve side beat Ards 3-0 in the final but it has emerged the Glens might have broken competition rules in an earlier match.
The issue is whether keeper Carter Dawson was eligible to play in the fourth round win over Wellington Rec.
The Glens have already lost league points over Dawson’s registration.
Glentoran II manager Spike Hill has resigned over the matter.
It is understood Dawson’s signing did not make the 31 August deadline and he should not have played for the Glens until the January transfer window.
Glentoran II have been docked the seven Reserve League points they won with Dawson in the team.
“I feel badly let down,” Hill told the Belfast Telegraph.
“It is a sad day for me because I have had seven great years at the Oval.
“Over the years a lot of promises have been made, but we have been fighting battles every day.
“There comes a time when you have to say enough is enough.”
The player registration blunder is the latest controversy to beset the east Belfast club.
The cash-strapped Glens have had problems paying a tax bill and there have been delays in paying players’ wages this season.
The decision on what to do about the Steel and Sons Cup has yet to be made by the County Antrim Football Association.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on2:33 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Spin starting to get under way:

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/exclusive-recovery-could-be-put-on-hold-if-12-12-18-gets-the-thumbs-up-117444n.20412250

EXCLUSIVE: Recovery could be put on hold if 12-12-18 gets the thumbs-up
EXCLUSIVE by MATTHEW LINDSAY
BEING forced to play in the bottom tier again next season due to league reconstruction could have financial repercussions for Rangers.

Rangers chief executive Charles Green
That was the warning from Scottish football financial expert David Glen today as he cast his eye over the Ibrox club’s interim results.

Glen, a partner at leading accountancy firm Price Waterhouse Coopers, was unsurprised at the figures released by the Glasgow giants yesterday.

The results show that, in the seven months leading up to December 31 last year, Rangers posted a loss of £7million.

Glen, the author of the Financial Review of Scottish Football, told SportTimes the off-field turmoil they endured last summer was responsible for the loss.

“The interim results were what you might have expected,” he said. “They will still have been carrying a big cost of players from the old regime early on.

“They still had a few of the expensive players at the start of the season. When they drifted away there were reductions in outlay and there have been further reductions since.”

Echoing the comments made by Rangers chief executive Charles Green and financial director Brian Stockbridge, Glen predicted their situation would improve.

And he believes the supporters deserve enormous praise for the recovery given their astonishing backing of Ally McCoist’s team during the 2012/13 campaign.

“From looking at their finances, they should be able to keep things going thanks to their season-ticket money,” he reflected.

“The bulk of the club’s income at the moment comes from season tickets. Cash flow, then, will not be as great in the second half of the season as the first. But then they will get season-ticket money in during May. That is what has seen them through.

“They have dropped down into the Third Division, but they still have 45,000 at their games every week and 38,500 season-ticket holders.

“In terms of income, the deals coming through now (with Blackthorn Cider, Puma and Sports Direct) will also give them a boost in the second half of the season.”

However, Glen believes the current Irn-Bru Third Division leaders will still struggle to make a profit in the next two seasons.

He fears any stumble in their bid to return to the top flight – including being consigned to the bottom division in a controversial 12-12-18 league set-up – could have consequences.

And he reckons the Ibrox club could be forced to use the £21m they have in the bank from their successful share offering last year to cover day-to-day costs.

“All being well for them, Rangers will get back to the SPL with consecutive promotions,” he said. “But nobody can guarantee that. I am sure there will be various business models being put together.

“They have got back on track. But what if they don’t win promotion one season? What if there is league reconstruction? What if they end up in a bottom division of 18 teams next season?

“Yes, the Rangers fans have done fantastically to date. But would they be up for that? Things like that could have an impact on the club financially.”

Glen continued: “Significant television money is not there and won’t be for a couple of seasons. They are not going to see vast profits in the next couple of years.

“They will probably have enough to see themselves through. But if they have a hiccup along the way I think some of that £21million will be used for the running of the club.

“If they win consecutive promotions they could probably get away without doing that. But, if not, they might need to dip into it. But they have got money in the bank to see them through.

“The main issue now is matching their ambition against the cost to get there. To get back to the SPL and Europe, they are going to have to speculate to accumulate.”

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on2:33 pm - Mar 5, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:29
0 0 Rate This
If only they played under the SFA rules

—————————————

i was reading that story and was about to post it on here, but typical lazy journalism stopped me

it’s not clear to me if the player was actually registered in time or not.

However, why the issue didnt come to light until AFTER a game on Dec 26th isn’t clear – or did it?

Article states they had already been deducted points – so was the club at fault?

Either way, i’m sure the FA sent them a letter informing them that the registration had been revoked – otherwise, why wouldn’t he be registered?

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Alastair Henderson (@allyjh72)Posted on2:34 pm - Mar 5, 2013


I’m a Dundee Utd fan and am feeling pretty sickened by the current situation.

What Steven Thompson and others seem to be unable to grasp is that the game HAS to be based on sporting integrity. i.e. the same rules apply to everybody. I’m fed up with Regan, Doncaster, Topping and now my own club’s chairman going on about the ‘damage done to Scottish football’, losing ‘commercial partners’, ‘we have to move on’ etc.

Moving on and allowing the guilty to go unpunished is to admit that there is an inherent bias towards one club because of their size.

It is an admission that maximising the commercial value of the game is more important than absolute fairness in applying the rules.

In my opinion, that is far more damaging than drawing a line and moving on. I would rather watch a poor league that is run fairly than a rich one which is effectively rigged.

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rantinrobinPosted on2:37 pm - Mar 5, 2013


STV reporting that Hearts could go into administration.

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broganrogantrevinoandhoganPosted on2:44 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Sorry I will try that again.

The Tale of the Great Belli

http://wp.me/p1G95H-I7

View Comment

angus1983Posted on2:46 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Just as a bit of an aside, I remember back in the early 80s we used to sing a version of TBB at Pittodrie that went a bit like …

Very loud: “Hallo hallo, we are the Beach End Boys, Hallo hallo, you’ll know us by our noise”
Much quieter: “Ah mummble beh rum di-de-do”
About half the folk that were originally singing: “Cos we are the Aberdeen supporters!”

Nobody seemed to know what the bit in the middle was, so it never lasted long and generally morphed into a rousing Stand Free instead.

View Comment

coineanachantaighePosted on2:55 pm - Mar 5, 2013


rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:37

STV reporting that Hearts could go into administration.
—————————————————————————

Surely they could have gone into administration just about any time this last few months? (Sorry Hearts supporters). That can only be news if they’re predicting it IS going to happen and very soon.

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AllyJamboPosted on3:00 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Due to unforseen circumstances, the LNS result wasn’t the only ‘ceiling to collapse’, my kitchen ceiling having been the other one, and a hellish bout of one o’ those virus thingys, resulted in my absence from here for a bit. I’ve tried to keep up, and have had so many things I wanted to say swept away by others getting in before me, or somebody, like Paul McConville, coming out and using legal knowledge to show that I’d have been wrong anyway – solicitors, who needs them, huh?

Now it looks like the fix has been done and there’s nothing we can do, other than protest, while the ‘losers’ celebrate ‘victory’. With victories like these we have to wonder why they only claim 54 titles, but with CG that may only be a matter of time!

One thing that has been shown is just how true the saying ‘where there’s a will – there’s a way’ is. Where all it’s taken for some form of Rangers to survive, when facing death on at least two occassions over 12 months, is the will of all involved, or at least of all those involved with the power and position to affect the outcome. Where the people who rode roughshod through the rules can, themselves, use those same rules to save themselves, as long as those who are charged with upholding these laws do their bit to guide them through the minefield of those laws. It even seems that the introduction of independent tribunals, while making it more likely a fair and just verdict would be reached, has aided RFC by removing the footballing sentiments and replacing them with strict legality based sanctions when found guilty on all counts.

It seems that the only thing that has come out of all this is that there can now be no doubt, even amongst those previously sceptical of favouritism towards Rangers, that they are indeed a protected species (of what, only God knows) and have been given free rein to do as they please in perpetuity.

On a slightly different note, I met a Glasgow guy in my local pub a couple of nights ago and asked him what team he supported (I’d hoped he was going to say Celtic so I could have someone to discuss the LNS result with) but he was rather sheepish when he told me Rangers. Not smug or arrogant at all, and admitted he was ashamed of his club. He even showed me a tattoo of RFC on his upper arm and said he wished he’d never had it done! To be honest I felt a bit of a git because he was so downbeat about it all, and in my usual way I’d gone full guns blazing with my disgust at his team and the ruling. He’s been away from Glasgow, living here in England, for many years so has probably been able to look at things with a clearer view than if surrounded by fellow bears, but hopefully there are others with his awareness of what really has happened. He actually looked depressed as I left, as though he was thinking ‘is this the way it’s always going to be?’. Sadly, it probably is!

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neepheidPosted on3:02 pm - Mar 5, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:33

Glen, the author of the Financial Review of Scottish Football, told SportTimes the off-field turmoil they endured last summer was responsible for the loss.

“And he reckons the Ibrox club could be forced to use the £21m they have in the bank from their successful share offering last year to cover day-to-day costs.”
=====================

How else does Mr Glen, financial genius, think the bills are being paid? Money coming in since the New Year is minimal, just some matchday receipts, and a bit of TV money. Outgoings over £2m per month. Cash in the bank (all from the IPO) is obviously being eaten up rapidly.

What is responsible for the loss, Mr Glen, is, as always, outgoings exceeding incomings- in this case by at least £1.5m per month. Not any “turmoil” endured by these poor wee martyrs. I don’t suppose Messrs Green and McCoist could sacrifice a bit of salary to help matters? No, I thought not.

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briggsbhoyPosted on3:09 pm - Mar 5, 2013


angus1983 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:46

I recall taking my nephew to the Aberdeen V Dundee league cup final a few years back as a nuetral and the song you mentioned was sung by the Dundee fans, which kind of took me aback when I heard the opening lines. I could never grasp what the middle of the song was mind you but it definately wasn’ about being up to knees if I recall, it was all mumbled 🙂

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wottpiPosted on3:10 pm - Mar 5, 2013


From what I can see the basic figures say the following.

Revenue £9,524m
Deferred income claimed £8,117

Total monies in £17,641

Operating expenses £16,572.

Even if the operating expenses include the non recurring items @ £4,140m that results in a 7 monthly figure of £12,432m or £1,776m per month.

Four months to go and that means possible additional operating expenses of £7,104 to year end. Added to that is the Edminston Hosue and Albion deals that weren’t in the interim results thus add on £2.4m.

So a year of operating expenses could be in the region of £27m.

So take of the revenue and deferred income and they are around £10m short.

Take of pay as you go sales and some commercial deals, maybe the stadium naming cash up from and you could take of a couple of mill from the £10m.

Either way they are still going to have to dip into the IPO money, maybe around £7m to £8m, to pay wages, bills taxman etc.

Now next financial year it can be argued if they keep the same wage bill, don’t give Ally any money and left Ibrox deteriorate then the operating costs could drop to around £20m if you take off this years non recurring costs.

I would imagine that could be covered by ticket sales (if they go up) and commercial deals, tv prize money hospitality etc.

Thats leaves them with £13m on the bank. So plenty to use for upgrading the team and stadium but once its gone its gone. Once thats gone then they are wholly reliant on the ticket sales and commercial deals or it is back to the well.

Therefore it will be interesting to see if prudecne will be applied and what is going to ‘give’ over the summer.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on3:13 pm - Mar 5, 2013


question

from Mr Glens article ….http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/exclusive-recovery-could-be-put-on-hold-if-12-12-18-gets-the-thumbs-up-117444n.20412250

he states that the Puma, Blackthorn and Sports Direct deals will bring in extra income

So, can anyone tell me about income from JJB/Umbro and Tennents?

Whilst JJB were still in business, had they transferred over the deal to sevco (before going bust) and/or had Sevco received a payment from JJB at all? (I suspect not, so the Puma/SD deals will be new income)

But TRFC still have tennents on their shirts – so i assume tennents have kept some kind of deal in place (or they would have had to remove it from the shirts)

And as Blackthorn is the same company (essentially) I assume the deal will be comparable – in fact, it may even be less if Tennents honoured the original deal.

Basically, are we sure these deals are creating new and ADDITIONAL income streams to those they have already had this year?

View Comment

paulmac2Posted on3:16 pm - Mar 5, 2013


angus1983 says:

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:47
…………………………

In other words don’t get caught!….somethings will never change…

View Comment

AllyJamboPosted on3:19 pm - Mar 5, 2013


As a Hearts fan I’ve been asking myself why I’m not more upset by the current situation with my club. I should be wound up in knots and unable to sleep worrying about them. The thing is, I now know that they’ve been playing in a much more rigged league than even I imagined, and that my 50 years of supporting them has been a waste of, rather a lot of, money. I have fallen out of love with Scottish football, not with Hearts, and have been left with such a sick feeling there’s no room for any more worry for my club. While I doubt they will get the aid TRFC have had, I’m not sure I’d want it anyway because I wouldn’t want Hearts tarred with the same brush as Rangers, though with the future for most, if not all, clubs looking grim it might prove necessary to keep the game in Scotland going. In my oppinion it’s all down to timing for Hearts, if they can find a buyer, in time, then things might work out for the better, but if they go into administration it could get very messy. I expect any deal will involve the sale of the club alone, with Tynecastle leased, at least for a while, until an alternative can be found.

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on3:21 pm - Mar 5, 2013


rantinrobin says: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:37

STV reporting that Hearts could go into administration.
=======================
Yesterday they also reported that Vlad had relinquished control of Hearts after he resigned from the UBIG Board which was plainly wrong.
==================================
Hearts issued a statement earlier today:

05.03.2013

The Heart of Midlothian Board issued the following statement this morning.

Sergejus Fedotovas, director of Hearts, said: “Despite recent changes to the Board at UBIG, the Board structure at Heart of Midlothian remains unchanged.

“The information that Mr Vladimir Romanov has relinquished his control of Hearts is pure speculation and we do not have any information to that effect. Changes at UBIG board do not reflect any changes in the holding structure of Mr Romanov’s ownership.

“I would like to reassure supporters of the club that the Board of Hearts’ focus is entirely on this club and continuing the work that has allowed us to be within touching distance of having a self-sustainable business. This then allows us to truly develop the club both on and off the field in the seasons ahead. It is a work in progress at the moment but we are satisfied with the progress being made.

“It is also right to acknowledge that one of the principle reasons for us being unaffected at this stage by events in Lithuania is the excellent support that the fans and staff have provided to the club.

“With this continued support and ongoing diligence by the club’s Board of Directors we believe that there is no threat to Hearts.”
==================================
The Hearts statement also seems to contradict the STV report. It would be rather odd to put such a statement out if there were meetings with staff going on.
================================
Personally I think that Vlad’s resignation from the Board of UBIG (was he pushed by the Bank of Lithuania?) is just the next step towards Hearts day of reckoning (or redemption, if they are lucky enough to be sold beforehand).

The signs are not good and if they do go into administration they will be hit by an 18 point penalty and face an uphill struggle to stay in the SPL.

View Comment

wottpiPosted on3:22 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Most likely just a waiting game at Tynecastle now.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/216455-hearts-staff-told-club-could-go-into-administration/

🙁

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wottpiPosted on3:36 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 15:13

The income derived from the different deals were outlined as below expressed in £100,000

Gate receipts and hospitality 6,411

Sponsorship and advertising 381

Broadcasting rights 391

Commercial 552

Retail 941

Other operating income 848

Total 9,524

Therefore Sponsorship, Commercial and retail brought in £1.8m over 7 months, so you could factor that up to £3.0m for the year plus whatever may be included in the ‘deferred income’ that relates to commercial deals and the like. Maybe Ashley paid a fee up front for getting exclusivity on the strip sales via Sports Direct etc?

As discussed yesterday Newcastle are on £5m a year from Puma so take a guess at what Rangers are on. Celtics deal with Tennets was reportted as being worth £1.5m a year and the Magners deal is topping that. So again take a guess. Figures for the Stadum naming have been discussed elsewhere.

Therefore still playing in the lower division I’d guess the deals are low to begin with but could rise as they progress through the divisions.

It will not be as high as in the past but still is not to be sniffed at.

Another source of income for the club (and Ashley) will be that fans will go out and buy the two new Puma strips that will need to be released for next season.

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angus1983Posted on3:57 pm - Mar 5, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy quotes:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:33

“What if there is league reconstruction? What if they end up in a bottom division of 18 teams next season?”
——

What if they do? They’ll be two promotions away from the top division … just the same as they would be if there was no league reconstruction.

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TartawulverPosted on4:04 pm - Mar 5, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:33

Spin starting to get under way:
——————————————-
I think the spin is already well under way. From many different avenues have we been hearing the narrative about ‘time to draw a line under it and move on’ since the LNS decision? It comes from posters on forums, from journalists, football clubs, administrators…

Personally, I can agree with it, but only to the extent that, unless something radical is going to change (and I see no sign of that), more likely time to draw a line under it and move on to something other than Scottish football.

View Comment

malpasutdPosted on4:04 pm - Mar 5, 2013


I’m a Dundee Utd supporter too. I was hoping that Stephen Thompson would issue a statement that would show some sort of solidarity with Celtic. He didn’t, so i might have to draw a line and move on to another sport.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on4:06 pm - Mar 5, 2013


angus1983 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 15:57
0 0 Rate This
===========

Agree, but all this dire straits stuff is aimed at them getting into the second 12 tier of the proposed league set up.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on4:11 pm - Mar 5, 2013


the article in the evening times doesn’t make any argument why TRFC being in the bottom 18 is worse than being in SFL2

the whole argument is that if TRFC fail to win promotion in any year, then it could be problematic

But that argument applies to every team – no?

And why shouldn’t Rangers spend any of their cash in the bank to run the club? Either cut your costs or spend the money in the bank – simples. (or go bust!)

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easyJamboPosted on4:22 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Dunfermline are in trouble with the beaks again with their financial issues ……. obviously Mr Lunny has found some non TRFC work to do.

Notice of Complaint issued to Dunfermline Athletic

Tuesday, 05 March 2013

Alleged Party in Breach: Dunfermline Athletic
Match: Dunfermline Athletic v Hamilton Academical – William Hill Scottish Cup fifth round, 2 February 2013
Disciplinary Rule(s) allegedly breached:

Disciplinary Rule 320 (Failure to adhere to the Scottish FA’s Cup Competition Rules by failing to pay Hamilton Academical FC the club’s share of the receipts for the above match under Rule 46 (c)(3) and (e) of the said Cup Competition Rules).

Principal Hearing Date: Thursday 21 March 2013

Rule 320: Infringement of rules – All clubs, officials, players or other persons under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall adhere to the Cup Competition Rules.

Cup Competition Rule 46 (c) (3): When, after repayment of the levy and of the deduction foresaid, half of the remainder of the receipts exceeds the guarantee, the said remainder of the receipts shall be divided, equally, between the two clubs.

Cup Competition Rule 46 (e): The share of the receipts, or the guarantee, should be paid, in cash, on the day of the match, unless any agreement is made to the contrary.

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Bill1903Posted on4:29 pm - Mar 5, 2013


angus1983 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 14:46
1 0 Rate This
Just as a bit of an aside, I remember back in the early 80s we used to sing a version of TBB at Pittodrie that went a bit like …

Very loud: “Hallo hallo, we are the Beach End Boys, Hallo hallo, you’ll know us by our noise”
Much quieter: “Ah mummble beh rum di-de-do”
About half the folk that were originally singing: “Cos we are the Aberdeen supporters!”

Nobody seemed to know what the bit in the middle was, so it never lasted long and generally morphed into a rousing Stand Free instead.

————————————————————-

Ha ha Angus I remember that well in the late 70’s 😀

Can also remember singing UDA all the way etc
Thankfully it was only a phase for stupid young loons and didn’t catch on.

I’m very grateful to have grown up in the north east with its lack of predudice compared to our brothers from further south.

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easyJamboPosted on4:30 pm - Mar 5, 2013


STV now reporting that Gavin Masterton will be stepping down from the DAFC board.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/dunfermline/216470-gavin-masterton-to-leave-boardroom-position-at-dunfermline-athletic

It must be Armageddon week 🙁

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wottpiPosted on4:36 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 16:11

Of course the league reconstruction and the ‘money in the bank’ is all linked as moves are afoot to try and help T’Rangers keep as much of the IPO money in the bank as possible by manipulating a situation that would allow them ‘jump a league’ to further increase their revenue through increased ticket prices.

The lower the division the lower the income, the more chance of dipping into the share money.

Without fear or favour then they should be working their way through the leagues without any further help and, as you say, succeed or fail on their own financial decisions.

Finishing top at the end of the season of Div 3 still only puts them 11th or 12th from bottom of the pile for next year in my book. Therefore its Div 2 if the status quo or in the 18 if its 12-12-18. It would still be the bottom tier if it were their own 14-14-14 solution. There should be no cherry picking.

However don’t be surprised if someone says to make up the 12 and the 18 that teams that would have been in Div 1 and 2 will be joined together put on 0 points and then the split will be decided on an unheard of SFA ruling of using a reverse alphabet. As it is ‘The’ Rangers then that will ensure they are in top position thus ending up in the the 12 and not the 18 🙂

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easyJamboPosted on4:38 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Now a direct response from Hearts re STV’s admin claims. Once again it doesn’t show our journos in a good light.

Club denies claims

05.03.2013
Heart of Midlothian FC vehemently refutes media claims that its staff were told at a meeting today that the club could go into administration.

The report on the Scottish Television website lacks any sort of foundation and is misleading in the extreme.

The club can categorically state there was no such meeting and no such message imparted to staff.

Such erroneous stories cause distress not only to our staff but their families and the club will be taking the strongest action possible against the responsible parties.

A Hearts spokesperson said: “We are sickened and disgusted by such unsubstantiated content. Articles such as this which have no factual basis, show a complete ignorance of the facts and reflect very badly on the profession of journalism.

“It is a straight-forward shameless act to destabilise the club and we will consider applying for legal advice to seek justice and damages for the business.”

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jimlarkinPosted on4:52 pm - Mar 5, 2013


i read somewhere yesterday that sevco’s wage bill is down from £20+ (£millions)

to £5,000,000

can this be verified?

if so, that is a helluva “saving” since sevco came into this world

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Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on4:53 pm - Mar 5, 2013


After all the shenanigans over the last year or so the latest whitewash from LNS would seem to be the last straw for lots of football fans in Scotland. This was the latest in a long line of curious decisions concerning the TRFC. We have in the past been steadfastly accused of paranoia any time we seen an obvious wrong and spoke out about it. Lots of things mysteriously swept under the TRFC or SFA carpet. But I would like to ask this question. Who or What is behind all the systematic rule bending or breaking over the last 20 odd years. Who or What decided to slow down proceedings both sporting and legal to aid and abet TRFC. Who or What seems to have stopped all the on-going investigations into the workings of TRFC. Who OR What has the power to influence not only the SFA but also our Legal system. I know some of the posters on here will point to the semantics of being Cleared by the FTTT or that no sporting advantage was gained but the truth is there for all to see. There is a powerful force guiding EVERYTHING to do with Newco Rangers. Whoever or Whatever is wielding this force is mighty powerful and should not be taken lightly. But why? Why go to such lengths to ensure the survival of, I believe, the most disliked football club in the land? What reasoning is there behind the overriding need to ensure continuity? Where will this all powerful invisible hand lead us next. I am not political in any way but I would fear for independence in this little country with such seemingly unstoppable corruption at its core.

Have I finally got my paranoia back?

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on4:57 pm - Mar 5, 2013


easyJambo says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 16:38
0 0 Rate This
==============

As this is retrospective, can they punish them now?

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on5:05 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 16:53
2 0 Rate This
=============

What about LH and the COI. A totally ludicrousness situation.

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chipsandblogPosted on5:11 pm - Mar 5, 2013


i think all clubs resigning from their current league would be the only saving grace in this whole affair. Leave TRFC fans to be angry and threatening at whoever is left.

Leave Doncaster, Regan, Ogilvie and Longmuir to administer their favourite club.

Even if it meant no European football for 2 to 3 years it would be worth it . A league built on sporting integrity and a mission statement that does not allow sectarianism, racism, intimidation and rule bending to flourish.

basically an organisation that does the job that these above are paid to do.

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wottpiPosted on5:19 pm - Mar 5, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 16:52

Don’t think it is £5m. Even from inside Ibrox I think the figure being reported is around £7m.

The previous figures seemed to be well reported because not only was there a lot of high earners but there was also a higher number of players within the whole squad structure. This years the overall number of players has been cut back and there are are only a handful of high earners and the young lads.

The trouble is that when Whyte was in charge he needed the PAYE and VAT to pay the high wages and even when D&P got round to getting the players to take a cut to get ithe bill closer to what they are paying out as a total today, they still managed to run up a loss of 1m a month.

Any major increase in wages over next season will definetly see the share money getting dipped.

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paulmac2Posted on5:24 pm - Mar 5, 2013


wottpi says:

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 15:10
…………………….

There is always those friends at the SFA who could assist in one of two ways…

Favourable cup results providing an extended run in Domestic compo’s giving higher revenue…

An unexpected pre…pre season 4 team competion at Ibrox followed by a begining of the season invitational 4 club compo run at Ibrox…

the SFL could also chip in with handing out prize money before the season officially ends…

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dentarthurdent42Posted on5:29 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Using the proceeds if a floatation to cover everyday running costs, not a good thing now is it.

Mr Green in the prospectus had grandiose plans for the stadium, for development, for improving the squad. I don’t remember the bit about “We need the money just to pay the bills and keep the doors open”.

In other considerations, they shouted from the rooftops about the £22m they raised (not including the costs of raising it), if I remember correctly the target was £27m. You don’t have to be a genius to work out that’s £5m short of the target. Quite a high percentage.

We now have him reversing the position on sticking up for the fans, and on orange strips to actually threatening them in a very thinly veiled way. Deary deary me.

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paulmac2Posted on5:29 pm - Mar 5, 2013


easyJambo says:

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 16:38
…………………….

I agree EJ it is shocking journalism….it has nothing to do with the football club….its the holding Company that is on a sticky wicket..

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wottpiPosted on5:36 pm - Mar 5, 2013


paulmac2 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 17:24

You are not suggesting they get the hotballs out of storage, are you?

Is there much call for seeing your team thumped by Arsenal’s youth set up? 🙂

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Big PinkPosted on5:39 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 16:53 (Edit)
__________________________________________________________-

Apologies for the barely tangential on-topic-ness.

I am ambivalent on the Independence question. It certainly has intrigued me over the years and even more so as the referendum nears. I reckon on balance I was veering towards a “yes”, but the scale of the mobilisation by the establishment in Scotland to assist Rangers has compelled me to re-assess.
The media, the judiciary, the football authorities have all been actively engaged in operation parachute – and the politicians have turned a blind eye to the goings on.

The question we need to have answered is “Why?” Why have these pillars of our establishment felt the need to defy logic, and argue that black is white on such a persistent scale?

Just for a football club? As a sceptic on the Masonic conspiracy theories most of my life, my conviction still holds that such a thing is unlikely. However even those who like me are forever on the lookout for more pragmatic causes and effects will surely understand how people can come to those conclusions and NOT be candidates for institutionalisation.

Are the checks and balances of Westminster and Whitehall the only things that keep us safe? For if what we have witnessed over the last year is endemic of Scottish society, then we really aren’t grown up enough to be running our country.

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toffocraigPosted on5:40 pm - Mar 5, 2013


As a Dons and Scottish football fan in general (I’m early 40s so been a while) I’m now at a pivotal stage in my Scottish footballing interests due to the lack of ‘spine’ the two main footballing authorities have shown in the last 2 years- even prior to the collapse of Rangers 1872 last summer.
At the foremost of my mind is how would Aberdeen have been treated if in the same position as the then Rangers and the now The Rangers 2012? I’m sure you would ask the same question of your favoured club should they have been as ‘unfortunate’ to be in that position. But this is the real issue for me ‘fortune’ not in a financial sense but in a moral and righteous sense. For me if AFC 1903 went the same way as Rangers 1872 I think- like most Dons fans- they would be as integral and honest with themselves to put up their hands and submit that ‘the ole’ club died’ as a result of shedding massive debt and any credibility that went with it the way 1872 Rangers did by being liquidated. So all the trophies and titles would become fond and cherished memories for us Dons fans to hold and bring to the fore when required in football discussions, debates and banter. I and you would expect nothing more than the new owners of the assets of the old club to rebirth an Aberdeen FC of sorts and accept that ‘the break in history’ is full and that the new entity on rebirth was another AFC for me and fellow Dons to follow. “Oh no you wouldn’t!” is the hypothetical debating voices I can here coming from your end of the keyboard on here. But my reasoning is simple. I would want the ’new Dons’ to be generally accepted and absorbed back into Scottish football culture by my peers and other supporters. I would want the ‘fortunes’ of the new club to be embraced by not only footballing authorities (yuk) but by fellow Scottish footballing supporters for the overall good’ fortunes’ on and off the park- wherever this fictional new Dons entity would ‘be placed’ which would more likely be the highland league then to seek an opening to the senior leagues- not again, but as that new entity.
As a supporter and fan in general I would want the new entity of AFC (with The ‘The’ prefix) to be managed, encouraged, mentored and hopefully fully endorsed in the senior leagues in the time that it would naturally take- that’s what I would expect and accept- no leg ups, no changing of rules no lobbying in the corridors of Hampden prior to a presentation for the hoped aforementioned ‘aid’ from the SFA/SPL- honest integral progression- WHY for the good of the hosting other clubs and leagues that I would hope the new Dons would travel to and through- Integrally- respect was earned; good fortunes earned.
This is hypothesis of course but what if it did…? Would WE be accepted by YOU the other support base and clubs? We maybe even allowed to be remembered as AFC just like old times. But there would be an unspoken understanding that we are a reincarnation- but never mentioned as the new entity was respected and established honour amongst it peer members. That would be the best we could hope for.

Coming back from that hypothetical scenario which could happen to the NOW scenario with TRFC the current generations of peer clubs and supporters will never accept them due to their conniving, gesturing, twisting, dishonest and blatant arrogance in flouting and disrespecting every other Scottish senior football club for their NEED to be treated like the spoiled playground bully who had his way before he was finally reluctantly ‘expelled’ due to the bully’s own means by the school but has been allowed back into the school early from that expulsion as the’ authority’ fears the bully’s family due to their ‘weighted requests’ to get their boy out the house from under them. And also fear for its school windows or any other collateral damage.
TRFC have something over the SFA and the SPL will never be allowed to fully ‘know’ what this is- there is a massive bargaining chip that TRFC has in its shallow pocket that its just waiting to ‘flick’ in the air in the face of the SFA at any given moment- so what is this chip? Sometimes you don’t need to check the pockets of the guilty to know what’s in the pocket (Ogilvy is the shape of the chip in the pocket) and that’s what TRFC have right now- their pockets will never be checked- and we’ve just had more proof from LNS’ ruling on the matter. TRFC’s ‘ bad fortunes’ are based on mistrust of the bully who may ‘act out again’ for their own personal gain there is and never will RESPECT given or shown by their peer clubs who’ve strived to be respected they want their ‘good fortunes the bad way.’ Eventually, I hope that peer clubs mutual respect for each other is the way forward and in their ‘reinforcing of each others respect’ will be the final barrier to permanently ridding us with the misfortunes that one RFC/TRFC has and currently brings to Scottish football.

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Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on6:01 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Big Pink says:

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 17:39

Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 16:53

==============================

‘The media, the judiciary, the football authorities have all been actively engaged in operation parachute – and the politicians have turned a blind eye to the goings on.

I honestly think some very high ranking Politicians are doing more than passively turning a blind eye here. There may be political mileage at this time but that does not explain this phenomina over the last 20 odd years.

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neepheidPosted on6:06 pm - Mar 5, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 17:05

What about LH and the COI. A totally ludicrousness situation.
====

And there is the key to this whole debacle. In the normal course of events, RFC would have been put into liquidation a few days after the CVA propsal was rejected by the creditors- 12 June or thereabouts. If that had happened, then the “Rangers” SFA membership would have been extinguished, and Sevco’s only route into Scottish senior football would have been to apply for the vacancy that would have been created. Of course Sevco had no chance of entry by that route, because as a new company, they simply could not have produced the necessary 3 years accounts.

May I suggest, at this point in the tale, that Green’s Sevco was financially a busted flush at that point, because playing in the juniors for 3 years was quite definitely not part of the business plan, and it was goodbye Rangers.

Enter, stage right, Lord Hodge. He was in overall charge of the administration, he had approved the appointment of D&P, despite HMRC objections. Yet as soon as it became apparent that liquidation was fatal to Sevco, and would mean no more Rangers in senior football, he blocked the immediate liquidation of RFC pending some supposed enquiry into a conflict of interest by D&P. So RFC remained in administration all through the summer, the RFC membership remained in existence and available for transfer to Sevco, and, surprise surprise, the RFC membership was, in due course transferred to Sevco before RFC was eventually put into liquidation by the gracious consent of Lord Hodge, some time in October, even although his so called enquiry into a conflict of interest was no further forward than it had been in June. In fact he just left matters to the Insolvency Practitioners Association and walked away.

I have asked these questions before on this forum- has anyone got a precedent for anything like this delay?- why could liquidation not be allowed to proceed in June, when it could be allowed to proceed in October?- Am I the only person on this planet who sees a link between delaying the liquidation, and the transfer of the SFA membership?

I have been told before by several well connected posters what an upright judge Lord Hodge is, how unworthy it is to even think such thoughts. And now to cap it all I have Lord Hodge’s even more esteemed colleague, Lord Nimmo-Smith stepping centre stage with a judgement that is breathtaking in its partiality and brass-necked arrogance.

Well, apologies in advance to TSFM or Big Pink or whatever, because I know he doesn’t like stuff like this on his blog, but I have to say it- this whole affair reeks of judicial corruption. If that is the Scottish legal system, then I am truly, truly ashamed to be Scottish. And angry, very angry- because these oh so clever legal minds take all of us for chumps, and think that their pitiful smoke and mirrors charade will blind us all to the brutal truth, which is that the legal system in Scotland is just another corrupt, grubby establishment club (read that any way you like, by the way, you probably won’t be far wrong). Well, your Lordships, this chump is not as stupid as you think, and plenty others can smell rotten fish too. Not that you care of course.

If this post is pulled by the moderators, I fully understand. But some things just have to be said.

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Lord WobblyPosted on6:10 pm - Mar 5, 2013


tomtomaswell says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 11:04
22 0 Rate This
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:47
Commentary from RM, where this chap seems to be missing the “spirit” of Mr Green’s announcement somewhat:
“I know it’s an emotive subject for some, but Charles is right – the media, the Internet bheasts & plenty other bastards are lining up to stick the boot in & as it stands, some of the songs are giving these fuckers the ammunition they’re craving.
I’m a great advocate of freedom of speech, but the time & place for protesting against perceived censorship isn’t, I believe, at our games – that’s what these people want, it’s playing right into their hands – they’ve campaigned long & hard to villify these songs & those singing them, so singing “offensive” songs at games is only going to damage the club & get people a weekender & and a court appearance for their touble.
If folk want to sing certain songs they know certain people will
use as a stick to beat us with, do it on the bus to the game, do it in the pub before & after the game – arrange a demonstration in the middle of George Square & sing them as a protest against constraints on freedom of speech – that’s fine – it won’t harm the club, but continuing to belt out the old songbook when people are using it as a weapon against us, is doing the Club absolutely no favours whatsoever – certain attitudes need to change, harsh fact of modern football but there you are…”
————————————————————-
And all said without as much as a “you know what, we should
stop singing these songs not because they might harm our club but because they’re wrong, out of date and out of touch with modern society”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s a bit like the “we want to go to SFL3” mentality. They can’t stand being told what to do and have to make out it’s what they want to do. In this particular instance I don’t care why they stop as long as they stop.
If they want to stand in George Square to make their voice heard so much the better. They’ve been hidden away in football stadia for far too long.

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liveinhopPosted on6:11 pm - Mar 5, 2013


tony gordon‏@gordon_tony

Can the Hospice confirm if they have received their share of the Dundee United cup tie yet and how much was received?

Glasgow’s Hospice‏@PPWH

Yes, we can confirm that the cheque arrived last week for £16,400 and we’re delighted by this very generous donation.

I saw this mentioned regarding the dundee united cup tie. Can anyone explain how you get £16,400 for a share of the gate which had an attendance of just under 10,000?
They also pledged to the Brick by Brick appeal. But I’d guess that their share of gate money was at least £60k, so it looks like 50% for Sevco and 50% for charity.

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scapaflow14Posted on6:12 pm - Mar 5, 2013


Big Pink, 5 minutes perusing the excellent blog blow, will show that for all the double dealing on display over Rangers, our “authorities” are rank amateurs when compared to the British state. Looking to Westminster is, I’m afraid laughable.

http://www.ianfraser.org/

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barcabhoyPosted on6:15 pm - Mar 5, 2013


I see that other “Expert” on Scottish Football has commented on Rangers having high player wages which will be nonrecurring, this follows on fellow Rhodes Scholar Derek Johnstone’s comments that Rangers could have broken even if it wasn’t for having to pay all the expensive players in June and July

Anyone who has read the work of Glen won’t be surprised at this comment. Leaving aside as irrelevant his fan proclivities , lets look at his analysis and at the same time show why Johnstone is embarrassing himself and his employer by his comments

Firstly Johnstone……

Rangers have been losing @ £1 million a month since September. Which high profile players on extravagant wages have been Ibrox since then DJ……..any of them ? McCulloch , Wallace and Alexander ? Well they all have contracts which oblige Green to pay them to the end of this season , and in 2 of the 3 cases into next and beyond

Secondly…to both of these “experts”

The only high profile players who TUPE’d over and who are no longer there were Edu, Bocanegra and Goian. Assuming all 3 were on £15 k a week then the cost of having these 3 on board for June and July was £360,000 . So that’s £360,000 non recurring costs out a total loss of £7 million. That’s hardly going to keep the wolf from the door. Even if RFC paid the entire August wage for these three that is likely to have been offset by the fee received for Edu from Stoke

Thirdly…..to them and anyone else likely to take financial advice from Derek Johnstone or Glen

The real high earners , Davis, McGregor, Whittaker and Naismith never TUPE’D over. They have never been employed by Green and he has never paid them a penny. This should be easy to understand even for someone like Johnstone who’s embarrassing knee jerk reaction to always clutch at any straw in defence of Rangers, no matter how flimsy . The fact that Glen and his fellow “expert ” Neil Pâtey don’t just immediately dismiss Johnstone’s propaganda shows them in a very poor light.

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chipsandblogPosted on6:22 pm - Mar 5, 2013


anybody fancy a race at Knockhill ? Your car against my new £47 million formula 1 car

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FIFAPosted on6:23 pm - Mar 5, 2013


The men in black have eased the worries of a certain financialy strained team ,no not Hearts ,and no again not Dunfermilne and definetely not Dundee that they will ease the passage required to get them to where they rightfully belong,now ,now quiet at the back .

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