Everything Has Changed

ByTrisidium

Everything Has Changed

The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.

It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”

The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.

The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.

But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.

David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.

The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte.  In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.

Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).

If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.

The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.

Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.

To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.

If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?

First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.

So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?

Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.

Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?

Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.

What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?

Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?

Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.

And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?

Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”

As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.

I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.

The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?

And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?

Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.

I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

4,442 Comments so far

upthehoopsPosted on7:12 am - Mar 7, 2013


TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 07:04
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Agree with all that you say. After the Juve game last night my friends and I discussed the future and what it holds. We concluded that LNS was the watershed moment for the media and the authorities to officially declare the old guard is back in power. The game as a contest in any way shape or form has gone, and I say that as a Celtic fan who realises my club will win a number of honours in the future, but the rule is that Rangers have to be more successful – permanently. The other clubs will suffer frequently as it is ensured the Rangers monopoly continues unabated, often by foul means.

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Danish PastryPosted on7:48 am - Mar 7, 2013


Morning all. Winter persists in Scandinavia too, although only weather-wise.

I suppose Dunfermline FC are in no real danger of extinction since it is the business that is in financial trouble, not the club. So that’s alright then. I thought I read somewhere that Mr GM had a stunningly long-term, interest-free, sorry, interest-deferred loan connected to the club. However, if the ground is sold those interest payments kick in. I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick here, but will Mr GM let the club – sorry, business – demise for a paltry sum and risk the interest payments kicking off? Anyone up to speed on this?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-one/jim-leishman-mission-impossible-for-dunfermline-1-2823515

PS Too bad to see Scotland’s European interest end last night. The campaign has continued with distinction to early March – a triumph in itself. It’s a sign of the times that there are three qualifying rounds to be navigated before entry into next season’s CL for the coming SPL winners.

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iceman63Posted on7:49 am - Mar 7, 2013


Simpl dilemma for Celtic fanss. Are you prepared to accept being the Washington Generals to the Rangers Ibrox Globetrotters. Your board appears to be. Dignity surely dictates that departing the scene is preferable to being the paid stooge especially given that no-one is now even pretebding that the sport is actually real.

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Ian58Posted on8:11 am - Mar 7, 2013


The Rangers. More important than The Rules.

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FIFAPosted on8:17 am - Mar 7, 2013


There is one thing for sure that will need sorted and that is the people that are supposedly in charge of the Scottish game,irrespective of the junction we take these people have to go,as long as they are in these lofty positions the fans can never be comfortable in any knowledge our game is safe ,I hate to give an equivalant such as the following but I feel it is the only one I can give and that is to say its like having a peadiophile comming to live in your community that has been a safe haven for your kids to play in for years,you try to go about your daily business as before but you are just waiting on the news that a child has gone missing ,thats the way it will be for fans in Scotland ,just waiting on the next bit of skullduggery to come from these people and it will come,until they are out ,all of them, we will never be confident our game is going in the right direction ,unfortunately life is not a rehearsal,one chance and one chance only

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angus1983Posted on8:34 am - Mar 7, 2013


Mr Doncaster is hardly likely to go anywhere after just being given a 16% pay rise.

Unless he’s on a final salary pension scheme, of course.

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SeniorPosted on8:48 am - Mar 7, 2013


Einstein, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.”
__________

Einstein was wrong. The definition of insanity is, paying to see a Scottish League game and expecting to see a fair result.

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coineanachantaighePosted on8:52 am - Mar 7, 2013


briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 00:32
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Wasn’t disagreeing with you. Guess my dislike of him made me shoot from the hip.

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jw hardinPosted on8:58 am - Mar 7, 2013


Has DUFC to be sacrificed to allow the Govan Club entry into 2nd tier?

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jw hardinPosted on9:12 am - Mar 7, 2013


apols – DAFC.

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TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)Posted on9:20 am - Mar 7, 2013


jw hardin says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 08:58

Has DAFC to be sacrificed to allow the Govan Club entry into 2nd tier?
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That’s a very interesting hypothesis, jw. Perhaps we should all do what we can to make sure
that Masterton doesn’t get the chance to help his old pals out one last time.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on9:46 am - Mar 7, 2013


Surely Dumfermline (the football club) will simply re-form under a different company and keep their history going.

They will have to be “demoted” to SFL 3 of course but that’s an adventure if anything. They will be able to make all sorts of new friends on the way back to their rightful position.

They will also then be debt free, which is a nice bonus.

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bluPosted on9:50 am - Mar 7, 2013


borussiabeefburg says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 21:02
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I wonder if the Pars would have been in the difficult situation revealed today if they hadn’t been bounced out of the spl last season, while a club played on with improperly registered staff? Maybe that club, which ceased to be in the close season, should really have been in the bottom of the table position, given the rules of competition.

Well handled yet again, leaders of our national sport.

==============================================================
Although Rangers should have been kicked out of the SPL for deliberatley not paying any bills last season, leaving Dunfermline in, their troubles run so deep that I doubt staying up would have saved them. Dunfermline’s chairman and the former Rangers chairman played football financial management in exactly the same way. Unfortunately, other clubs have followed that lead. We know about Dundee, Motherwell, Gretna, Hearts. Look out Kilmarnock and possibly others who depend on families or individuals who may have had enough.

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AuldheidPosted on9:50 am - Mar 7, 2013


Iceman

Departing to where?

Celtic have to find another league to play in or fold.

The former is not in Celtic’s control but they would move if it was an option and Scottish football would be better for it.

Folding is not an option because the supporters would not allow it.

They need all SPL clubs to tell the SFA that CO cannot stand for re election and Regan and Doncaster should be paid off.

If they cannot get agreement on that then they could continue under protest to UEFA stating why. That sporting integrity has been trampled under foot should be easy to demonstrate and UEFA should be asked publically if they think it fair that Scottish football clubs should have to be governed by an association that Celtic but preferably all clubs have lost all trust in.
There will be a cost to all clubs if the SFA do not come clean and it is only fair that the SFA pay for it one way or another.

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AuldheidPosted on9:56 am - Mar 7, 2013


Dentarthurden

The way things are going it will be a 6- 12-24 reconstructed league. 🙂

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dentarthurdent42Posted on10:00 am - Mar 7, 2013


Bunion says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 23:50
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You talk of the complicity of Michael Johnston ( n.b. – the fans voted no in no uncertain terms).

====================================

No I didn’t, I merely obseved that Kilmarnock abstained, so as not to misrepresent the fact that the SPL clubs unanimously rejected Rangers’ application to join the top league. A position they were, in my opinion, promised.

Re the best interest of the Celtic shareholders, I believe I said “currently” on several occassions. maybe in a few years time, but not now.

It is not currently in Celtic’s best interests that Rangers getting into the SPL be expedited. You may know some financial experts who would disagree with that. I think they would be wrong.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:03 am - Mar 7, 2013


All this talk of DAFC dying within days if £50k is not paid.

is this not a bit OTT

OK, situation is clearly critical, but what is the point of Insolvency Laws if DAFC are simply going to allow themselves to be liquidated at the 1st sight of a bill they can’t pay.

Can they not go into Administration?
Can costs not be cut by administrators
Can a CVA not be proposed?

OK, it’s not pretty and will mean harsh cuts at the club, but several other clubs/companies have gone into admin and come out the other side

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:05 am - Mar 7, 2013


The Tartan Army are getting restless..

received this post on my FB feed this morning

“To all SSC members. You may have noticed several posts on the TAMB about how the SSC is running these days.

The SFA had posted on their website it was their intention to increase SSC revenue by 33% by 2015 (they basically responded that their plan had been ditched, although given the commercial team (Kenny Macleod and Jules McGeever) they probably have a plan B, plan C etc).

The SSC should not be about profit. It should be about providing a service. Those who have been members for a while will remember the fold-out SSC guides that used to get sent out with the tickets (these were ditched as they were too expensive). They used to send a few staff in case of emergencies (this too has been cut back on recently – Luxembourg game).

The SSC is a club. On the emails is the slogan Your country. Your passion. Your club’. Does anyone feel like this is a club? There are no accounts (where does our membership money go) – we are getting less for our money that we did a few years ago (a tartan scarf made in china). Decisions are made by some clueless individuals within SFA towers, where their sole objective is to fleece the fans for as much money as possible while the laugh their way to the bank.

So, we pay 50 quid for 2 years membership where the only advantage is that we get to apply for away tickets. Home tickets have not sold out in recent years.

Anyone have any views on this, as I think in recent years they really are taking the piss. Apparently a survey will be sent out in the next week, and I would encourage people to complete this. Also, if like me, you have strong feeling on the above then drop Jules (Jules.McGeever@scottishfa.co.uk) and Kenny (
kenny.macleod@scottishfa.co.uk) an email. I’m sure they would be delighted to hear from you……”

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Jack JarvisPosted on10:14 am - Mar 7, 2013


Peterjung1

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/Commission%20Decision%2028%2002%202013.pdf

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ecobhoyPosted on10:14 am - Mar 7, 2013


Tommy says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 01:42

LNS was expected to restore sporting integrity to the game. It has now been plunged into even darker days. Do we now accept the game is merely rigged entertainment WWF style and walk away – or do we continue to finance our clubs despite them acquiescing to the Hampden plot?
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I really think that a lot of people expected far too much of LNS. It wasn’t his role to restore Sporting Integrity to the game but to reach a robust legal decision on the evidence submitted. The process of gathering the evidence and deciding there was a prima facie case in the first instance displayed either utter negligence by the SPLs preparatory legal team or deep corruption within Hampden – or some mixture of the two.

It seems that basic questions where never asked re the SFA regulation policies prior to the Commission Hearing and that when LNS asked them the whole case fell apart like a wet paper bag.

I seriously believe that if an informed and professional approach had been taken to the gathering of evidence – which was not the responsibility of LNS – then the case would never have gone ahead and I now can’t quite clear the thought from my mind that the whole charade was built to legitimise the 5-way agreement to protect the SFA & possibly the SPL.

In many ways I have been a major critic of Green because I wonder where Rangers and Scottish Football will end up when he and his investors go. He chops and changes like the wind but he has stuck to his attack on the 5-way agreement throughout and the authorities have let him away with murder hoping that LNS would bring him down IMO.

In retrospect, in spite of previous discussions on whether LNS had the ability to declare a Not Proven verdict, I now believe that in essence that is what he has actually done. I have no doubt that he is well aware of exactly what went down but he had no intention of being anyone’s patsy and did what he had to do professionally – which was decide the issues on the evidence given.

As I have said previously, it was not his job prior to the Hearing to question SFA employees as to their interpretation of the rules that was up to the SPL legal team preparing for the case and they failed disastrously in a fairly simple task either by design or sheer incompetence.

As to whether to stay or walk I’ll be staying and fighting in what small ways that I can because if I walked I would walk totally and wouldn’t hang-around like a ghost on the sidelines of sites like this telling the people who were still fighting how hopeless it all was and what they should be doing. And I will continue to support my club to the hilt and remember that football is a multi-million £ business these days and my club sometimes has to take hard financial decisions.

A lot of clubs did believe that they would get more support from fans by taking the Sporting Integrity route and I think, in general, that support didn’t really materialise so I doubt if the clubs will be that influenced again especially as the financial core of Scottish Football appears to be facing implosion from a number of fronts not least moral corruption and cowardice within the SFA and a MSM which is even worse.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on10:16 am - Mar 7, 2013


Sorry if posted before

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8014811.stm

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willmacufreePosted on10:24 am - Mar 7, 2013


iceman63 says: Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 07:49

Simpl dilemma for Celtic fanss. Are you prepared to accept being the Washington Generals to the Rangers Ibrox Globetrotters. Your board appears to be. Dignity surely dictates that departing the scene is preferable to being the paid stooge especially given that no-one is now even pretebding that the sport is actually real.
=====================================

Yes it’s a dilemma for Celtic fans, but maybe not as simple as you make out, as many contributors have said: for example if we walk away will there be support from other clubs supporters or will Celtic be left out on a limb? Do we unilaterally harm our club financially, or as last year are all supporters of fair play in professional football in Scotland prepared to take the necessary steps to demand no discrimination of any kind?
For many years I’ve been recording all televised Scottish football, to point up the repeated honest mistakes in the middle and on the lines. Now that the “sport” is so blatantly rigged, and is set to become more so, there is no longer any need to record anything. My first step is to cancel Sky/ESPN, no longer required.
I have to admit I’m scratching my head about the rest. However, if CFC are in any way complicit, and I am fairly sure they are not, in bending/breaking/ignoring/imagining rules, continuing support of the club would be pointless.

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arabest1Posted on10:28 am - Mar 7, 2013


dentarthurdent42 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 09:46

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Surely Dumfermline (the football club) will simply re-form under a different company and keep their history going.

————————————————————————————————————-

DAFC should send for Duff and Phelps, dream up some bogus concept called ‘newco’ transfer East End Park and the players they want to keep, the debts simply vanish, all those vendors who gave them credit will just have to learn the lesson and not be so generous in the future! They could also call in Baxendale-Walker to work out how to pay players in the future without contributing to the that pesky taxman, could save 40% per employee, without gaining a sporting advantage on the field, and if you get caught the original DAFC take the fine! Its foolproof, Its the way ahead, Hearts and Killie to follow soon.

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wottpiPosted on10:40 am - Mar 7, 2013


Question

If Dunfermline’s main external creditor is HMRC what are the chances of said body coming out and saying they will be happy to see an outcome that allows football to be played at East End Park?

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bigsausagefingersPosted on10:41 am - Mar 7, 2013


Could the govan mob buy DAFC in a CVA deal. A quick rename and relocation. Hey presto Div 1. And a big thank you Gavin for making this all possible. ??????

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ptd1978Posted on10:47 am - Mar 7, 2013


I’ve held back for months on this, but the LNS verdict and the muted response to it has made me speak out again.
What concerns me are the precedents set from the FTTT and LNS. If I were running a club in Scotland now I’d regard the registration rules as completely unenforcable and would look for ways to make money, or improve the team by ignoring them. If any uncontracted player is holidaying in Scotland and fancies a kick about, what’s to stop that?
Short of blackmailing or bribing the officials (or failing to put 2 dates in a form???), it seems to be impossible to meet the standard set.
Then because of the FTTT. If you do choose to break the law to gain sporting advantage, you can make sure your witnesses are arranged in your preferred order and are fully aware or all previous testimony and its implications.
These will be revealed as untenable precedents and the people who made them will have some explaining to do.

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neepheidPosted on10:49 am - Mar 7, 2013


wottpi says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 10:40
0 0 Rate This
Question

If Dunfermline’s main external creditor is HMRC what are the chances of said body coming out and saying they will be happy to see an outcome that allows football to be played at East End Park?
========================
Perhaps before that happens, our First Minister needs to put the squeeze on HMRC? He’s done it before, after all. Or will this case be different???

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wottpiPosted on10:52 am - Mar 7, 2013


A Question of Sport 1000th edition last night.

Teams made of previous Captain including Ally McCoist

Included was the traditional Home and Away round, but Sue Barker says that for this episode they all have to go home.

John Parrot to Sue

“Do you have any questions on Scottish Third Division Football?”

Of course the cheeky happy had to laugh to keep up his image on national TV

Somehow feel if it had been a BBC Scotland sports reporter jesting in that manner the BBC would have been banned from Ibrox until a public apology was issued.

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bailemeanachPosted on11:00 am - Mar 7, 2013


wottpi says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 10:52
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A Question of Sport 1000th edition last night.
________________________________________________________________

Did he demand to know the identities of the mystery guests?

Who are these people?

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Danish PastryPosted on11:03 am - Mar 7, 2013


I understand the gloom. But I’ve had last night’s sportsound podcast playing this morning and it was a very upbeat run-through of everything that’s been good about the CFC CL campaign. Not a Celtic man myself, but it was an inspirational listen for any fan of Scottish football, apart from the reference to the Italian police hindering the away fans, again (UEFA, are you awake?). Those of you about to give up the ghost on Scottish football, give it listen, it might not change your minds, but it was a ray of light in the gloom.

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jimlarkinPosted on11:11 am - Mar 7, 2013


dentarthurdent42 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 09:46

Surely Dumfermline (the football club) will simply re-form under a different company and keep their history going.

They will have to be “demoted” to SFL 3 of course but that’s an adventure if anything. They will be able to make all sorts of new friends on the way back to their rightful position.

They will also then be debt free, which is a nice bonus.

======================================================================
go for a cva

1p in the £ deal should do it with hmrc?

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Michael NicholsonPosted on11:47 am - Mar 7, 2013


As a Dunfermline Fan, I can see a real upside to the fact that my club could soon go out of business. Sure, there’ll be personal pain and sadness in the short term, but in the long term it gives me the perfect opportunity to detach myself from the corrupt mire that is Scottish Football. For Good.

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Danish PastryPosted on12:08 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Green on Talksport the noo. Expecting some searching questions from Gray …

🙂

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BrendaPosted on12:08 pm - Mar 7, 2013


I’m back I see Lunny hasn’t dealt with what he’s meant to deal with, it looks like [Rangers] will be shoehorned into the top tier next season and all this will be a bad memory for the peepil, back to square one 🙁 I’m done too it is a complete and utter farce, Celtic FC & the other clubs in the SPL have to do something or at least listen to the fans 🙁 if not I do hope they walk away and Scottish football will die, it’s on life support just now anyway ……… I am not buying season tickets next year and sky/ espn is cancelled…….. It’s sad but necessary I work too hard to waste my money on a corrupt institution bye all 🙁 and I really hope CG does them over well and truly and mccoist gets what karma has stacked up for him 🙂 🙂 be safe, be happy and find a new interest 🙂

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willmacufreePosted on12:13 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Consensus is that the LNS findings are perverse, based on incomplete and/or incorrect and misleading information put before the tribunal. If there’s any honesty left in senior pro football in Scotland the findings must be appealed. I believe only the SPL can take this step.

The SPL is run by a six man Board – Ralph Topping and Neil Doncaster, Eric Riley, Stephen Thompson, Duncan Fraser and Michael Johnston. I don’t know about Duncan Fraser, but of the rest I would be confident only in Eric Riley being in favour of appeal.

That leaves 8 member clubs: Motherwell, ICT, Ross County, St. Johnstone, Hibs, HoM, St.Mirren and Dundee. Will they vote to move on also? What do the supporters of these clubs think? How many votes are required to move to appeal?

Somehow there does not seem to be the same energy about this crux as there was about the attempted SPL/SFL1 fiddle last year. Yet the current obstruction of justice is every bit as important. Do people just not care any more? The anarchists in control of Scottish football matters are probably banking on that happening.

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greenockjackPosted on12:14 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Auldhied, Wednesday at 11:54

Yes, it comes down to individual choice as to what they will base the decison of whether to continue the active and financial support of their team or not.

Self-respect is as valid a reason as any.

However there are many ways of looking at how events have unfolded over the last couple of years and your take ignores some issues that you either would rather not talk about or are blinded to. Rather than bat points back and forth I will move on.

Where I would agree with you is that the governing bodies have acted and are acting with incompetence and disdain towards the supporter in the stand.
The fact that everyone at the top remained their posts (SFA & SPL) as this season got underway was testament to a lack of accountability and contempt towards the average football supporter.

The whole affair has left a bad taste in the mouth for EVERYONE.

The way I see it is that the game is badly wounded and the current economic meltdown will prove to be such that it will never recover to former levels.
That it will find it´s new level and continue to exist.
That Rangers and Celtic will make increasingly desperate attempts to move wholly or partly outwith the Scottish game.
———————————————————————————————————-

NTHM
Haven´t done my fiscal revision yet.
———————————————————————————————————

Yesterdays poll finished:

TU: Peeved but will follow my team as always………………………………………. 12

TD: I´m clear on the issue, line in the sand and not going back………………….134

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angus1983Posted on12:27 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Paul (@007_Rebooted) says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 11:14

That’s been the modus operandum …

Romanes eunt domus.

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Palacio67Posted on12:38 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Brenda says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 12:08
4 1 Rate This
=========================

Hi Brenda, what makes you think that t’rangers will be shoehorned into the top league next year? What would all the Division one clubs say, Morton, Partick, Raith Rovers etc, would they sit back and let a new club in Division 3 leapfrog them? I don’t think so. Maybe somehow getting into the middle league, i.e 3 or 4 cubs folding in the next 2 months and going to the bottom of the pyramid ( The Newclub route ) 🙂
In saying that the poster who said they could buy Dunfermline and do a switcheroo sounds credible. The SFA/SPL will do almost anything to get them to top tier faster, it will be up to the clubs to stop it, the fans opinions will not hold the same power as last summer.
Is n’t it getting very late in the day to implement league construction, for next August? That is why the Dunfermline route could be their best option……..

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BrendaPosted on12:46 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Palacio67 @ 12:38

Just a gut feeling and anything is possible with the way things have gone so far ….. So sad but fear has driven a lot of what has gone on I’m afraid ie social unrest if titles had been stripped……………….. On LNS verdict ??? They’re guilty but only a wee bit, sorry but I am truly scunnered by the whole mess (created by 1 club) and I’d hazard a guess that I’m not the only one 🙂

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jw hardinPosted on1:00 pm - Mar 7, 2013


willmacufree says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 12:13

“Consensus is that the LNS findings are perverse, based on incomplete and/or incorrect and misleading information put before the tribunal.”

I’d go further and say they were racist. The Establishment could, in no way, countenance the ‘Immigrant Club” (as CFC are known on Govan Club message boards) to have superiority.

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Danish PastryPosted on1:07 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Green on Talksport came across well-rehersed as hard-nosed son of Yorkshire.

* LNS investigation a waste of time. Opposed it because not right. As wrong as seeing three thugs beat up old lady in street. Indication ST at DU wants to move on but indications other clubs don’t

* Loadsamoney in t’bank. Half-yearly result better than expected in spite of paying players who walked out

* Scottish football doesn’t want Rangers. Against European law to deny club access to England

* McGregor & co = desperados motivated but self-interest. Court case on-going

* Would have sold to Walter for a small profit, but that came to nothing

* Sectarian chanting occurred at one match, by a small minority. Life bans for those caught. Self policing needed

* Had a go at Tom English and ND

* No idea what league he will be in next year or the name of the league

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bluPosted on1:08 pm - Mar 7, 2013


jw hardin says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:00
==================================================
Oh dear. That just reads as if you’re feeling sorry for yourself. There are 32 clubs in Scotland superior to Rangers.

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zoylerPosted on1:11 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Good to see John Clarke posting all the way from Oz. I wonder if it causes Lord Nimmo thinks it was worth it to loose the respect of palpably decent men like John.
Remember this was not a trial – it was an enquiry so if the most senior Judge in Scotland somehow does not know the questions to ask can we be surprised at the reaction to his findings?

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SeniorPosted on1:24 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Re. John Clarke.
I too, put my money on LNS placing his reputation above anything else – I was wrong.
LNS’s name will be remember for his incredible finding on the SPL inquiry. How a man with such a high legal reputation could let his name be appended to this report is beyond me.

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bailemeanachPosted on1:28 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:07
2 0 i
Rate This
Green on Talksport
______________________________________________________________

Appreciate the summary Danish.

I couldn’t bear to listen to the old chancer.

Like Traynor, he makes me shout at the wireless.

What was his beef with Mr English?

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StevieBCPosted on1:31 pm - Mar 7, 2013


blu says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:08
1 0 i
Rate This
jw hardin says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:00
============================================
… There are 32 clubs in Scotland superior to Rangers

==============
Can’t resist…

If you are talking about morality, responsibility, fans’ behaviour, and generally being ‘positive, good citizens’, I would suggest that there are 41 clubs in Scotland superior to ‘Rangers’.

Then there are Highland League clubs, Juniors etc…

There are many, many more clubs ‘superior’ to TRFC across all of Scotland. 😉

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dentarthurdent42Posted on1:35 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Can someone explain to me how, if the top league is staying as 12 clubs, Rangers or anyone else can be forced into it.

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Palacio67Posted on1:43 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Senior says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:24
4 0 Rate This
Re. John Clarke.
I too, put my money on LNS placing his reputation above anything else – I was wrong.
LNS’s name will be remember for his incredible finding on the SPL inquiry. How a man with such a high legal reputation could let his name be appended to this report is beyond me.
====================
Maybe LNS can sleep like a baby at night, knowing that his windows are intact and there is no need to install security fences and gates to deter the hordes during civil unrest…. 🙂
He took a small hit for the Establishment, in a few years time no one will speak about the findings, or indeed the shenanigans of last summer, the same way they have whitewashed Manchester, S3ctarian singing and the presentation of the ECWC in the toilet, to name but a few from history.

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FinlochPosted on1:45 pm - Mar 7, 2013


To those of you who are on the cusp of walking away.
Please don’t – you have a job to do even if you never pay to watch Scottish Football again….

The SFA/SFL/SPL and the clubs only have one mantra and that is revenue.
It is what pays their wages (gives them 18% wage rises?) and makes many of them “important” people.
And being “big” in football gives them all far more status that far bigger jobs in real businesses would ever offer. It makes them big fish in our wee bit of a country but unfortunately also attracts the wrong type of people.

So in the demise of SDM’s club we have many egos in the mix and after a while they have begun to believe their own press releases about how important and clever they are.

I guess it’s fair enough to say the SFA/SPL/SFL figureheads “sort of” run businesses for themselves and also gather revenues for their members.

Sadly in their rush to safeguard their “short term revenue projections” by engineering the Blue club back into the SPL ASAP they have been unrelenting and focussed.

They will succeed however.
They will succeed because they currently hold the power.
All the power.

And the fact that they will also kill the goose that has laid all the golden eggs and made them into the “A list Personalities” they think they are has not even come on to their horizons.

In the last 18 months-ish we have seen a extraordinary but continuous and well orchestrated series of delays, and compromised judgements that I think will end with Rangers back into the SPL in 2013.
(This should surprise none of us because when Ian Black signed he let slip it would be one year in the lower leagues at most.
So we’ve all known it is what was “promised” after the first 5 way agreement was knocked back by the marvellous Diddy Club Revolt).

That is what will happen and it is because it is what our clubs want.
I’ll say that again but a wee bit louder – IT IS WHAT THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP OF OUR CLUBS WANT.

The SFA/SFL/SPL are merely voices of the club chairmen who are complicit.

We are right to see Regan and Doncaster and Longmuir and Ogilvie as corrupt in how they have acted in this crisis, not an honest or straight talking man among them.
And we are right to suspect other agendas too like a quest for harmony.

But the real villains are our club chairmen and the representatives they put forward to serve in the various committees.

I have said before the silence from Holyrood has been deafening after Mr Salmond made a fool of himself early on and the MSM have been mostly in the wrong people’s pockets.

Thanks to RTC we the honest fans have united in a strange alliance to try to stop this gross malfeasance by those in power because “without us the fans the game is nothing”.

Its just that we are being ignored right now, Mr Stein.

So what can we do and why have I asked that you should not walk away?

Here are 6 things.

1 Keep on this site and keep the technical analysis and comment and genuine cameraderie at the current levels. A sane oasis in a sea of corruption and madness. If you have influence then pass on what you know and do it dispassionately and without malice. And Brenda keep your clocks ticking.

2 Stop spending on anything where the SFA, SPL, SFL organisations get a cut. Watch Scotland games on telly or in the pub and buy the kids retro (royalty free) Scottish tops and tell them they are from the good old days.

3 Talk to your club today if you plan to walk away from a season book and tell them why. Do it now so they know.
And if you want to renew but still think they need their ears chewed tell them that you are not happy with the way they have represented you and be specific.

4 Develop a sense of humour because much of what has and is happening is genuinely funny. It would have been a hilarious TV series in a “House of Cards” or “Yes Minister” mode. (I’m looking forward to the episode where CW leaks some of his tapes from the clandestine meetings in Switzerland and London as well as others.

5 Embrace the decent Rangers fans – they have been very badly treated by SDM and his headhunted annointee CW. TRFC fans may still even be in the eye of their biggest storm. They are part of our future

6 Finally bide your time because in the fullness of time there will be no secrets.
This has a way to run yet and we are needed.

Desperately needed.

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BrendaPosted on1:45 pm - Mar 7, 2013


dentarthurdent42 @ 13:35

There will be a casualty, some team will suffer just like last year when sevco ( who had no audited accounts etc ) got forced in ahead of Spartans who had stuck to the rules and ticked all the boxes. It’s what the peepil who run Scottish football say that goes not what’s in the rules, they only matter when it’s ANY other team that’s being punished 🙂

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onceabhoyPosted on1:50 pm - Mar 7, 2013


shield2012 says:
Wednesday, March 6, 2013 at 16:57

Warning! Lengthy post in reply to shield 2012 so please ignore if short on time.

Perchance the opportunity for rebuttal?

1. Why was the evidence given by S. Bryson not subject to investigation? – The SPL/SFA don’t believe the commission was corrupt and were happy to accept the outcome of the independently led commission that they paid for.

The SPL still have to review the results. The SFA as the ape elate body should be staying clear to ensure independence.

2. Why was S. Bryson allowed in the room given the appeals process? What? An SFA employee shouldn’t be allowed to give evidence at their enquiry?

This was not an SFA enquiry. They have been named as the appellate body.

3. Why despite highlighting 10+yrs of cheating was the penalty so unprecedentedly low? – 10 years of cheating was NOT highlighted? It was confirmed that they did NOT cheat.

They have been found guilty of avoiding tax on a number of instances in the BTC with the bulk still in the appeals process. Wrt sporting cheating they have been found guilty of deliberately withholding information from the registration process. For this they have received the paltry £250k fine. The dubiety amongst fans is the conflicting evidence put forward to suggest that this unprecedented level of cheating (Given that this is info that the SFA rules stae MUST be included and DM stated in his BTC evidence the reason for omission was so as not to affect their tax manoeuvres). It is accepted that they could not have afforded the players without this manoeuvring and may yet be found liable for millions in taxes. It may well have been more appropriate to hold the LNS decision in abeyance till the tax tribunals final ruling.

1. Why has no one from UEFA stated their disapproval given they are the ultimate governing body? – You want UEFA to state their disapproval of LNS’s independant commission? Brilliant!

No. I suggest UEFA having set a precedent on retrospective punishment at CAS would highlight this to the SFA to ensure fairness.

2. Why has no one else from the FA pointed out the in accuracy of the evidence given precedent? – You want the SFA to question the accuracy of LNS’s report? Once again, brilliant!

See above. The SFA know, as we all do, that retrospective punishment is usually the only way to punish wrongdoing. They know the precedents.

1. It is apparent that 1872 fans feel totally vindicated and victimised regardless of the fact their club and its board have repeatedly been found guilty of cheating both sporting and social bodies.
They haven’t been found guilty of cheating?

I can appreciate your embarrassment. The wrongdoing was on the part of successive boards with DM et al being found guilty on a number of instances and still going thru the judicial process on many, many others. This followed by CW and his open cheating on social taxes in order to finish the season. For the avoidance of doubt he was in essence rangers and it was the club which benefitted from this. The old board was found guilty by the LNS commission and fined. CW/rangers have been found guilty of non payment of taxes which allowed them to field a team for most of a season when they dodged Multi million pounds of debt to all and sundry. They should have sold big time much sooner, not to do so and debt dodge, was cheating in order to field a stronger team.

2. It is apparent that the vast majority of fans of other clubs are repulsed by the collusion evident in various findings and the inherent signal to the 2012 club that it is too big to fail.
Oops, this isn’t a question!

3. How do we as fans bring about change without hurting our own clubs. I say this in the belief that my own and other clubs are way too quiet in their public statements. There was a time for silence and allowing judicial process, that is now fast disappearing and if no official appeal by the SPL gone.
???

It is at this point no longer a sport in Scotland, it is a business. A distasteful business.
Correct, football clubs ARE businesses.

Many of your fellow fans would disagree with you here…..given that since CG, WS, JT and Co stated liquidation means death and end of history……they have gone to extreme orchestrated lengths to claim the business is not the club. On reflection I’ll give you this one.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on1:51 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Being honest I just can’t see how it would work.

We have a system of relegation and promotion in place, it was there at the start of the season and is still there. 1 culb will be relegated and one promoted, the bottom club from the SPL and the top from SFL1.

The only other option is if a club drops out. If it happenduring the season then if i remember correctly there is no relegation and one club comes up.

If it happens post season then we have precedent. last season we had the “Club 12” situation. Club 12 became Dundee. I don’t see how that could be changed, certainly not by overlooking every club in SFL1 and SFL2.

I just can’t see it happening.

Maybe a leap frog into the second tier, as under the plan that will move from 10 teams to 12, but even then it would be very difficult to justify, and to get the SFL teams to accept it. Certainly the other 17 in the lowest tier would have to give up on two home games against Rangers. Why would they give that money up.

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bluPosted on2:02 pm - Mar 7, 2013


StevieBC says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:31
=============================================
Stevie, facts here, not opinions. Seriously though, despite all the angst about what many of us see as the illogical conclusion of the FTTT and the LNS inquiry, the Rangers FC that spent £11m on Tore Andre Flo and continues to hold such a special place within the hearts and minds of many working in the Scottish media and the support of key players within Scotland’s footballing bodies is moving (very) slowly to death through liquidation. The successor entity starts from a place very far behind the old Rangers great rival and will take years to achieve parity, even if everything goes smoothly for it. I believe that the internet bampots have played a part in that by scrutinising the role played in this by the footballing authorities and the Scottish MSM. The senior sports reporter at the Daily Record calling quits is testimony to that, along with the rising number of sportswriters prepared to go beyond simply regurgitating Media House briefings. The decision not to place the new Rangers in SPL or SFL 1 is further evidence – this was driven by fans anger and that anger was informed by good analysis on blogs such as this and some fans sites (Celtic, where it would be expected, but also Aberdeen and Hearts).

A job well done, I’d say. Others may feel there is still unfinished business and that’s OK.

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greenockjackPosted on2:03 pm - Mar 7, 2013


dentarthurdent42

If I were a bookie I would make SPL2 as the most likely place for Rangers to play next season.

With the developing situations at Hearts and Dunfermline, those odds are shortening by the day.

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angus1983Posted on2:05 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:07

CG: Indication ST at DU wants to move on but indications other clubs don’t.
——

Well, there’s a wee ray of hope.

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angus1983Posted on2:07 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Scotland squad for upcoming qualifiers:

Goalkeepers: Matt Gilks, David Marshall, Allan McGregor

Defenders: Christophe Berra, Gary Caldwell, Danny Fox. Grant Hanley, Alan Hutton, Russell Martin, Charlie Mulgrew, Andy Webster

Midfielders: Charlie Adam, Liam Bridcutt, Chris Burke, Kris Commons, Graham Dorrans, James Forrest, Gary Mackay-Steven, James McArthur, James Morrison, Robert Snodgrass, George Boyd.

Forwards: Steven Fletcher, Ross McCormack. Shaun Maloney, Kenny Miller, Steven Naismith, Jordan Rhodes.

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Palacio67Posted on2:09 pm - Mar 7, 2013


One thing that bothered me last year was why Dunfermline said nothing before and after the liquidation of rangers. They must have knew that cash was tight and faced a difficult year. I am sure they would have had a good case to remain in the SPL if they wanted to, why did they choose not to ‘rock the boat’?

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bect67Posted on2:11 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Don’t mean to sound arrogant or superior (that’s a WATP thing anyway), but has it dawned on the peepell that, at best, they will be in the shadow of CFC for the foreseeable future (several years AT LEAST!)?

Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame Chic with your ‘smoke and mirrors’. The Green Engine will eventually ‘run out of steam’ – and money.

Defiance will give way to walking away, as TRFC find playing second (or third, or fourth) fiddle unacceptable.

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Palacio67Posted on2:14 pm - Mar 7, 2013


angus1983 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 14:05
1 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:07

CG: Indication ST at DU wants to move on but indications other clubs don’t.
——

Well, there’s a wee ray of hope.
=====================

Agree Angus, but since everything else he mentioned was pash, are we going to believe him on this? In saying that he has got previous for the odd slip up. So hears hoping.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on2:15 pm - Mar 7, 2013


I don’t really see how SPL2, if thats what they call it, can be justified either.

The two additional teams must surely comne from the top of the current SFL2.

So either no relegation with 2 up, or 1 down and 3 up.

I cannot see how either the current SFL 2 or SFL 3 teams would countenance anything else. Certainly not the 17 who would miss out on 2 home games against Rangers in the next season.

If the decision is made by the 30 (current number) SFL teams then over half of them would be doing themselves out of money. Money which according to Rangers fans (and I agree with them) was / is a tremendous boon to these teams.

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wottpiPosted on2:16 pm - Mar 7, 2013


For sharewatchers

Looks like the interim results may have stirred up a wee bit activity on T’Rangers shares.
One ‘big’ buy yesterday of 125k shares but two sales today of 50k each with 52k not disclosed as sell or buy.

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Carl31 (@C4rl31)Posted on2:18 pm - Mar 7, 2013


No, no, no…
Any of you paranoid guys have got it all wrong!

Rangers cant possibly leap up divisions because there are rules that say they cant go up unless they are promoted on merit!

Its the rules that tell us this – and we all know that Rangers never ever ever get help from the guardians of the rules, the SFA/SPL! There is no chance that an SFA official would come up with a brand new, never before seen, interpretation of a rule to help Rangers!

That would never happen!!

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dentarthurdent42Posted on2:26 pm - Mar 7, 2013


On appealing the Lord Nimmo Smith finding.

I assume most people here agree the guilty verdict, so the appeal would be against the penalty.

Do people have any thoughts on what should have been done.

Personally I think that the players should have been ruled ineligible, as happened in other cases of “administrative errors”. With the result of any such game being amended to a 3-0 loss.

As to an actual penalty, a fine is probably innapropriate as it has nil effect on a business being liquidated. Thinking about it so does pretty much any other penalty. The club is dead anyway, so anything done would simply be “for the record”.

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Galling fiverPosted on2:28 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Some recent post’s, no doubt making points previously made, have finally sunk in.

I had a conversation in which I found myself saying that this is as much about ruining CFC as it is RIFC. To which my totally “sick of listening to it” Mrs Fiver replied, ” but you said RIFC are not being ruined, they are let off all the time”.

There is always the possibility that this has been the plan all along. Divide and conquor. I’m afraid it’s all going to plan right enough.

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greenockjackPosted on2:43 pm - Mar 7, 2013


dentarthurdent42

I don’t really see how SPL2, if thats what they call it, can be justified either.
—————————————————————————————————-

“Justifiable” to whom though and for what reasons ?

SFL
SFL Clubs
SPL (inc. member clubs)
SFA
Scottish Football as a whole

Finance will be the key driver.

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deldonsPosted on2:44 pm - Mar 7, 2013


A week on from the ill judged ruling of LNS and I’m still seething. I’m left wondering how other clubs would have fared if in such a position? I wonder if the SPL would appeal immediately if it were another club?
On another note Green goes on about “making friends” in the lower leagues of Scottish football but surely this must be on a superficial basis or his expanding of the truth/ his reality of the situation. How many clubs have actually ‘made friends’ rather than just having to host TRFC as per league rules on fixtures. How is Green going to ‘make friends’ across Scottish football in their journey back when he continues to spout lies or ill truth of situations that he has chosen to explore in the name of ‘we’ve been done’? There will come a time when his espousing will actually require him to actually make such efforts of peer support from other clubs.
In my view there must be a lot of angry F.C. Boards out there who have taken umbrage to Green’s ill thought and unsubstantiated rantings or been libeled or slandered upon (e.g. DUFC) but no action has been taken on their behalf’s- I wonder why? I would like to think that in instances such as the SC ‘Embargo & boycott’ from TRFC ticket allocation/ attendance at DUFC on the day along with hidden support from SPL or other clubs are just banking the ire in order to allow such propaganda to unify them more in a collective spirit. The disquiet after last Thursday from other clubs would lead me to think that there is now a compounded loss of confidence in the SFA/SPL and clubs saying internally or quietly to each other- ‘we would never have got this lenient a result from LNS’ and the forming of some informal cabal in the self/ collective interests in protection of the beast that has been allowed to maraud unchecked by Footballing authorities unchallenged since its conception in June 2012.

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shield2012Posted on2:54 pm - Mar 7, 2013


What is the future for TSFM?

We’ve had the tax cases; winding up orders; Orlit; ‘nuclear’ info; independent commissions; and many other rumours. We’ve all enjoyed discussing it but, when you look back, none of it was accurate and obviously transpired through wishful thinking rather than fact.

It wasn’t that long ago when claims of corruption were frowned upon by big names on here. Also, any unsupported views of Lord Nimmo Smith, or other such figures, were discouraged.

Now? Well we have the majority of posters claiming that it’s all down to the establishment or a higher power that is present to aid TRFC. LNS is corrupt just as much as the SFA and other high powered organisations in Scotland.

2nd to these discussions, is talk of walking away.

As someone who doesn’t believe in this corrupt establishment, I view it as being absurd and quite laughable. I don’t thing i’m alone in this respect. I can’t find any common ground with most posters now.

Without credibility, TSFM has nothing and it’s losing it fast in my opinion.

Sorry but someone had to say it.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on3:01 pm - Mar 7, 2013


I’m intrigued.

If someone thinks this blog is pointless than why would they read it and post on it so much.

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ecobhoyPosted on3:09 pm - Mar 7, 2013


zoyler says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 13:11

Remember this was not a trial – it was an enquiry so if the most senior Judge in Scotland somehow does not know the questions to ask can we be surprised at the reaction to his findings?
—————————————————————————————————————

LNS knew exactly the questions to ask because the groundwork for the case by the SPL and their staff & lawyers had been built on shifting sands and didn’t stand up to scrutiny.

It was up to the SPL in front of the Hearing to counter the SFA evidence and they didn’t do so and from memory, without re-reading the decision, actually accepted it. LNS had to make his decision on the evidence presented he cannot just make a legal decision on his personal thoughts & feelings even though he may not agree with the evidence advanced.

In the absence of any argument from the other parties the evidence to the Hearing presented is all that counts. Obviously an appeal might alter the situation but I won’t hold my breath on that one

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greenockjackPosted on3:10 pm - Mar 7, 2013


shield

I think TSFM will fade away once League reconstruction is past but I do think there is validity in some of the arguments you oppose.

Just as there was some validity in the arguments made against the Celtic politically minded efforts to maximise damage on Rangers, not cause the damage but to maximise it.

The horrible irony is that what is left is a mess, with no-one happy (apart from Mr Green and his consortium) and the game in that has never been in such a terrible state both economically and at an administrative level where there is no trust left.

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bluPosted on3:13 pm - Mar 7, 2013


shield2012 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 14:54
=====================================================
shield, I’ve been one of those that welcomed a different view, challenging the common mindset of most posters on this blog. That inlcudes your posts but in recent times you seem to have moved to a position that says nothing wrong happened (almost straying in to trolling) – did you read the FTTT and LNS findings? You may feel that a little of bit of poor administration over ten years doesn’t amount to much but you must also surely wonder why Rangers serial poor administration and systematic non-completion of players registration was treated so differently to that of other clubs with single transgressions. Can you offer a view on that? I’ll understand if you’ve decided that it’s time to move on from all this but there is a lingering sesne of unfairness about this whole business that goes far beyond paranoid people from the east end of Glasgow.

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manandboyPosted on3:16 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Feb 14th 2012 Scottish Education Day

I was born and bred in Scotland.

I’ve lived my whole life here.

I’ve never lived anywhere else.

And never wanted to.

Throughout my life I’ve been happy and proud to be Scottish.

In my youth, I received a lengthy education.

But it wasn’t enough – though I didn’t know it at the time.

My education didn’t stop of course when I started working,

For as everyone knows, ‘life is a great teacher’.

And so life continued in the usual way and, as for many I guess, football was a continuous thread.

There was education to be had there too, though the lessons were very mixed.

And then came the 14th of February 2012.

On that day, I found myself enrolled in yet another school of learning.

On that day, with many, many schoolmates, I started learning stuff I never knew before.

I started learning how things work in Scotland.

Beginning with football.

And here I am, here we are, over a year later, still being surprised and dumfounded and perplexed and shocked by what we’re hearing and seeing.

And the learning curve keeps climbing higher and higher.

Where will it stop.

It’s getting a bit much.

Maybe a bit too much. Some are leaving. I don’t blame them.

I’d go too, but I want to learn as much as I can.

Even though it’s not much fun and it’s hard to take.

Ach well.

I’m not alone. I’m surrounded by internet friends from all over Scotland, overseas too.

Who are just like me in so many ways.

They are great company, with wonderful wit and humour and even a touch of genius at times –
no, I’m not describing myself!

And, clearly, very well educated.

I don’t want to leave them.

In learning about some of the worst people in Scotland,

I’ve discovered some of the very best!

I’m not so happy now and not so proud to be Scottish.

I’ve even thought I might like to live elsewhere.

But for the time being at least I’m going to stay on at this school and finish my education.

The lessons may be hard but the other pupils (known as bampots!) are brilliant.!

Now, where did I put that page on Insolvency . . .

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Palacio67Posted on3:19 pm - Mar 7, 2013


shield2012 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 14:54
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What is the future for TSFM?

Bye then.

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rantinrobinPosted on3:28 pm - Mar 7, 2013


Blu

Well said!

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neepheidPosted on3:29 pm - Mar 7, 2013


shield2012 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 14:54

As someone who doesn’t believe in this corrupt establishment, I view it as being absurd and quite laughable. I don’t thing i’m alone in this respect. I can’t find any common ground with most posters now.

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You could at least tell us why you don’t believe in this corrupt establishment. Or are you saying that the likes of Lord Hodge, Lord Nimmo Smith, President Ogilvie, etc, etc, are above and beyond any criticism by mere lesser mortals like me, for example? Perhaps I’d better practice a bit of forelock tugging and cap doffing in the mirror before I venture outside again?

I have criticised these people heavily on this forum over several months. I think I can honestly say that I have always backed up my criticism with some sort of reasoning based on the actions of the individuals involved. I am not going to be told by you that I shouldn’t criticise members of the “establishment” just because they are members of the “establishment”, and you don’t like them being criticised..

Blind deference to those in “the establishment” might be the “Rangers way”, but it’s pretty sickening to most Scottish people. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees, my father taught me. Again, not the “Rangers way”.

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