The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.
It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”
The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.
The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.
But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.
David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.
The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte. In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.
Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).
If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.
The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.
Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.
To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.
If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?
First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.
So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?
Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.
Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?
Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.
What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?
Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?
Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.
And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?
Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”
As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.
I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.
The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?
And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?
Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.
I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.
Palacio67 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 20:30
Posted in CQN
Hearing tonight from an SFL source that SKY are heavily engaged in the league reconstruction discussions with a strong agenda about Newclub being fast tracked to top league using threats of contract withdrawal if it doesn’t happen…………
good source.
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I would like Scottish Football not so much as to call Sky’s bluff but to tell them genuinely to F… Off. Let them fill their schedule with speedway or some other minority sport.
BT, who are becoming a player, might just fill the void. The crap money that Sky pay the SPL wouldn’t be a problem to them and I reckon the publicity from the fall out would be to their advantage.
Come on GJ tell us the other side of the story who are these astute operators, name names, you obviously have your thoughts , or is it the old Teflon RFC It’s all Peter Lawwell’ s doing . You really are getting desperate.
I know Sky/Virgin overpriced repeats and Sevco+1 (SSN), I’m cancelling just incase.
Can we, as a normally fair minded reasonable lot, please stop helping to lay the groundwork for a fast track solution to RFC’s plight. The fans have shown already that we will not countenance such an outcome. Not then, not now, not ever. The more this is talked about on here and other places, the more acceptable it would become IF the time comes that they were to even try it. I’m quite sure it is being discussed but let’s not even begin to prepare ourselves for any such misguided effort. The bums won’t be in the seats next season. If the powers that be really think for one minute that they’ll pull it off this time, well, as our hero CW would have said, good luck with that one. Armageddon would surely follow. It is incomprehensible. I’d sooner Scottish football died and started again. And it would.
Andrew Woods says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 20:57
3 0 i Rate This
Well said re Sky. To my mind they have systematically destroyed the game since they got involved. Of course they have injected huge amounts of cash, but it’s very much been top heavy to the already rich clubs.
The fans have also had a rum deal with all the stupid kick off times to cram in as much coverage as possible.
I’m not sure BT will offer anything better. Perhaps we should ditch live TV for a wee while and get actual bums on seats, a nice thought but it aint going to happen as long as football is HGV commercial vehicle.
Personally I thoroughly enjoy the roller coaster ride of watching my youngest lad’s team in the local under 9’s league. Sky have been jettisoned
shield2012 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 14:54
… It wasn’t that long ago when claims of corruption were frowned upon by big names on here. Also, any unsupported views of Lord Nimmo Smith, or other such figures, were discouraged.
Now? Well we have the majority of posters claiming that it’s all down to the establishment or a higher power that is present to aid TRFC. LNS is corrupt just as much as the SFA and other high powered organisations in Scotland …
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It was perhaps to this blog’s credit that it put any faith in LNS in the first place:
http://voicefromthenorth.blogspot.dk/2005/01/lothian-and-borders-police-evidence-of.html
Does anyone have the financial details of the TV deal signed this season? I vaguely remember Neil Doncaster interviewed on the radio, basically to publicise the new deal, tell the interviewer that it was not the time to go in to specifics when asked how much the deal was worth. Have they been made public yet? They always were before.
Why don’t TRFC create a British Union league and play in that ? We know most of the nonsense in the west of Scotland relates to Nrthrn Ireland but why do they sing about being born under a union flag when nrthrn ireland are not part of the union, is it the EU?
With regard to the coming cash cow of season tickets for clubs up and down the country.
Would it be possible for fans to write to their individual clubs asking for a meeting to enable the individual club chairman to justify their stance with regard to the corruption at the heart of our sport.
If they want our cash they will have to justify their, and therfore their/my clubs, stance in this whole charade. I would love to have the chance to question my Chairman/Chief Executive on why they have not attempted to influence matters and why as things have unfolded they have not called for a vote of no confidence in the SFA and lobbied UEFA to intervene.
In some respects I do not blame ‘The Rangers’ in their lashing out at anything to survive. All clubs and some fans would have done the same or at least have thrown themselves at the mercy of the authorities. The fact that they claim to be the same but not the same depending on what question is being asked is also a defence mechanism or possibly even denial.
However that does not exonerate the games authorities in telling the ‘new club’ exactly what they are. There simply is no excuse for that and ultimately that is where the real blame lies.
I have no doubt that within the five way agreement there is a clause that precludes the authorities from doing exactly this which begs the question;
What did ‘The Rangers’ have over the authorities?
This was a club on the brink of oblivion, on its knees, and yet it still had the power to negotiate with our games rulers.
Certainly the disgraced CO was in this up to his knees but we all knew that.
What other dirty little secrets was Chas Green given access to?
For instance was there minutes of meetings from RFC days where they asked for and were granted imunity from ‘outstanding social taxes’ in order to gain a UEFA licence?
What other tapes did CW make of his discussions with Regan and Doncaster?
Did these also find their way into Chas’ possession?
Now I’m not saying that any of the above are true but something or someone has a hold over the games authorities.
Or is it really that they are just dyed in the wool, bitter individuals that care not for any club other than their disgraced former employers.
Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:14
It was perhaps to this blog’s credit that it put any faith in LNS in the first place:
http://voicefromthenorth.blogspot.dk/2005/01/lothian-and-borders-police-evidence-of.html
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or: http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/curious-case-of-magic-circle-gay.html
I agree that The Rangers got of lightly (understatement noted) but to people posting links about Nimmo Smith; Would you have posted these links had Rangers been stripped of titles? Moot point, I know, but I didn’t see any of this stuff before the result was announced. Google is a wonderful thing and it’s easy to be wise after the event.
I really hope that Sky are driving Sevco into the SPL
As soon as the league reformation proposals come out, then the detail of how the leagues will be set up, play off, promotion/relegation, tv money, etc will come out – along with WHO will be in what league
at long last, such open contempt and corruption will mobilise the fans of other clubs
the clubs will have a simply choice – fans (and their income) or sky (and their paltry offering)
Of course, maybe Sky could offer us the sort of money the EPL gets and Scottish clubs wouldn’t need fans money at all, they could let us in for free.
incredibleadamspark says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:38
I agree that The Rangers got of lightly (understatement noted) but to people posting links about Nimmo Smith; Would you have posted these links had Rangers been stripped of titles? Moot point, I know, but I didn’t see any of this stuff before the result was announced. Google is a wonderful thing and it’s easy to be wise after the event.
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Both decisions that Nimmo Smith came to in this saga have been complete cop outs.
The illegal transfer ban was a carefully thought out sentence. A transfer ban on a new club that had no money to purchase players would surely be seen as a soft sentence by Sevco and a moral victory winning sentence by everyone else.
I recall the night it was announced. Twitter lit up with non Sevconians rejoicing with what was felt like to be justice. (It wasn’t) The next day Ally and the mob didn’t see it that way and all hell broke loose.
The “Un-Registered” player decision was equally meant to placate both sides but that didn’t work out either.
As Auldheid has previously commented, you would have to compromise your own self respect to accept such an absurd decision.
In the same way that Whyte was brought in to do a job for Murray, Nimmo Smith was brought in to do a job for the SPL/SFA..
chipsandblog says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 19:03
I think TRFC will be in the top league or second league next season, after all, the 5 way agreement seemed to hint at such a scenario. How it will happen, I do not know but I expect it will happen.
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Do you believe that fans will show no resistance to such a move, or do you believe SPL / SFL clubs will just ignore their views if they do?
incredibleadamspark says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:38
0 3 Rate This
I agree that The Rangers got of lightly (understatement noted) but to people posting links about Nimmo Smith; Would you have posted these links had Rangers been stripped of titles? Moot point, I know, but I didn’t see any of this stuff before the result was announced. Google is a wonderful thing and it’s easy to be wise after the event.
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As you say, Google’s a wonderful thing. The stuff about LNS and the Magic Circle has been in the public domain for years. All anyone had to do was look. I personally had no interest in the “title stripping” issue itself- it’s the bizarre judgement that interests me. However I am very interested in exactly why the highest echelons of our judiciary always find a way to do the “establishment club” a favour. More significant to me in that context was the “not proven” verdict on Messrs McCoist and Green. Now that really was a stretch.
LNS appears to be the Scottish establishment’s “go-to man” whenever a whitewash is required. I have kept off the subject until now because a lot of posters had a lot of faith in LNS, so why rain on their parade. And I would have kept off the subject of the Magic Circle, except that Mr Shield has been very dismissive of “conspiracy theorists” today. Well, I’m no conspiracy theorist, but since he has raised the point, I think everyone is entitled to know where that stink of rotting fish is coming from, and make their own judgement.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:47
………………………………….
Don’t be surprised if SKY offer a substancial 1st year incentive to allow clubs to ignore fans…
incredibleadamspark says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:38
………………………..
Some of his ‘odd’ decisions were highlighted before his report was released…and some posters defended his honesty…we can now see he was chosen for a perticular reason and not his impartiality…
However it is what it is…as openly corrupt and dishonest as a situation can be….and there is only one group of people who will have absolutly no shame in being comfortable with!
paulmac2 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 22:19
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Although found guilty the punishment did come as a surprise to me and the fine is almost arbitrary as it’ll probably never be recovered. Why not have the fine somewhere in the tens of millions? I’m not sure. So I’m not comfortable with it however I don’t view it as ‘openly corrupt and dishonest’, just lenient but not because of any ‘conspiracy’.
incredibleadamspark on Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:38
2 13 Rate This
I agree that The Rangers got of lightly (understatement noted) but to people posting links about Nimmo Smith; Would you have posted these links had Rangers been stripped of titles? Moot point, I know, but I didn’t see any of this stuff before the result was announced. Google is a wonderful thing and it’s easy to be wise after the event.
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I don’t subscribe to the group-think theory. This should never have been handed to judges. The SPL and SFA have rules, but apply them they would not. Even Green branded this a Mickey Mouse investigation. There have been some respected posters speaking in glowing terms about the judiciary. I never shared their enthusiasm about the men in wigs and gaiters. The writing was on the wall months ago when the unusual document was released outlining the almost theological concept of the etheral, eternal club divorced from the actions of the businesses that run them.
Palacio67 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 20:30
Hearing tonight from an SFL source that SKY are heavily engaged in the league reconstruction discussions with a strong agenda about Newclub being fast tracked to top league using threats of contract withdrawal if it doesn’t happen…………
good source.
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If there really is a good source for this surely a good thing would be to try to bring them in contact with a reliable journo (I know but there must be 1 or 2, maybe AT can be persuaded to come back for this) ….
… it would surely be a massive story if true.
broadswordcallingdannybhoy
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 19:02
I agree Broadsword, time to get some form of protest going before it’s too late. Every campaign needs a focal point and I believe El Presidente EBT should be the prime target.
‘WE WANT OGILVIE OUT, WE WANT OGILVIE OUT!’ should echo out strong, long and loud at every ground in Scotland this weekend and every weekend thereafter until they get the message. Concerted effort is essential.
Fans at televised games have a special opportunity, they are at the forefront. So to all the Hibees and Jambos at Easter Road this Sunday, in the words of the Blessed Delia ‘Lets be avin you!’ and give it some serious community singing – WE WANT OGILVIE OUT, WE WANT OGILVIE OUT!
Plenty of big televised games coming up; League Cup Final, Scottish Cup Semis & Final, World Cup Qualifiers, SPL & SFL. Shame them at every turn. Lets Sky know how we feel too.
Hell even the Sevconians can join in, apparently they don’t trust them either.
WE WANT OGILVIE OUT, WE WANT OGILVIE OUT! Gie it laldy!
fans have no say in Doncaster and Regans amateurish plans from a failed football CE and a failed cricketer
This is as CO planned, 2 unknowns out of their depth reviving a dead RFC and once the crap dies down they will be kicked in to touch.
If you continue to attend games you support Ogilvie.
Agree, sky deal is terrible. However that’s not all it costs sky, costs a lot of money to put on each game…..50k a game or something is it? Don’t know what part of those costs are variable but that adds a bit on. An SPL channel would be ideal, I’d subscribe to that no problem, they could sell the games to SKY ESPN etc. Set up costs would be high and it’s a bit of a risk but it would be a real boost to the game……though might give Rangers fans something else to boycott but how else would they watch their team?
incredibleadamspark on Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 22:36
0 4 Rate This
… So I’m not comfortable with it however I don’t view it as ‘openly corrupt and dishonest’, just lenient but not because of any ‘conspiracy’.
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My feelings too, although I’m sure someone can link various individuals to some secret society or other. The fact this individual has history didn’t help though.
For me the bottom line is: if our administrators need judges and QCs to explain their own football rules to them, why are they employed to administrate at all? A football person from FIFA or UEFA should have been used if those administrators had decided they could not do their job.
With regard to Sky, they are not the only show in town,
The reason BT got into football was to find content that they could deliver and charge for that delivery. In short BT wanted to stop Sky and Virgin making further inroads to BTs core business which is telecommunications (or digital delivery systems if you like).
BT Vison now have the wonderful opportunity to save Scottish Football and the integrity that makes the content believable by stepping into any vacumn Sky might leave if they walk away or set conditions that undermine integrity.
Not all of Scotlands 5M population subscribes to Sky but most of it uses telecommunications and BT have the opportunity to capture that market totally by taking over from Sky. I’m a Virgin customer but would switch to BT in an instant if it meant preserving our game in a form I could believe in.
Celtic have on their Board a BT executive and this thought provoking idea has been put to them.
Ideas are very powerful, do not underestimate them.
Simply put, if you are a Sky or Virgin customer would you switch to BT if they provided content you could believe in, if so tell them.
I would switch to BT but I would want Ogilvie and his ooompa loompas out of the SFA and no person with any links to the failed RFC having any prominent role in Scottish Football.
Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 23:23
My feelings too, although I’m sure someone can link various individuals to some secret society or other. The fact this individual has history didn’t help though.
For me the bottom line is: if our administrators need judges and QCs to explain their own football rules to them, why are they employed to administrate at all? A football person from FIFA or UEFA should have been used if those administrators had decided they could not do their job.
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Danish, Agree with you 100%
justshatered says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:23
With regard to the coming cash cow of season tickets for clubs up and down the country.
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It will not be long before it is renewal time again and just as the threat not to renew concentrated minds last year at clubs, so it can do so again. Therefore reminding clubs of what is required to persuade a supporter that he is paying to watch fair play could start at any time and build.
The nonsense of Sky dictating is that if the value of their contracts depend on Celtic playing The Rangers then by that very stipulation they are taking sporting integrity out of the equation. A clubs fate should depend on how they perform on the field of play under the same rules as the opposition not what Sky want to present to a large audience. Might as well rename them Sky Entertainment (Sports Division)
chipsandblog says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 23:10
fans have no say in Doncaster and Regans amateurish plans from a failed football CE and a failed cricketer
This is as CO planned 2 unknowns out of their depth reviving a dead RFC and once the crap dies down they will be kicked in to touch.
If you continue to attend games you support Ogilvie.
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Good grief. Both Regan and Doncaster were appointed years before Rangers went into administration and not by Ogilvie. When did he plan all this? If you chose to attend matches you are supporting your team.
Lord Wobbly says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 19:19
35 0 Rate This
Need a reason to continue to contribute?
Without a hint or irony, the ‘bitter battle’ is blamed on Thompson, Petrie and the apparently ‘Machiavellian’ Peter Lawwell. No mention of David Murray. No mention of being found guilty of years of lying and yes, cheating.
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/233-why-i-can-t-move-on
It really is quite extraordinary. Or it would be if they didn’t try to rewrite history every single day. If you want to let this kind of rubbish go unchallenged, then move on. If, however, you prefer to fight for truth, justice and the integrity way, keep on keeping on.
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No, I don’t believe it either! Which, of course, begs the question; just how much credence can we place in Stephen Thompson’s statement? Bear in mind that it is only a few weeks since he appeared on the front cover of the Dundee United match day program, above the banner, ‘Dundee United welcome the Rangers FC for the first ever meeting of the clubs’. Just one of the many jibes and insults he has made about our club over the past year.
was that not a photoshop that follow follow fell for?
I would think, ironically enough, if you asked Rangers fans if they would like their team to benefit from league reconstruction, then the majority would agree with the fans of other clubs.
Although not for the same reasons.
I’m not convinced that Charles Green would turn it down though.
Regan joined the SFA in 2010 after mr rangers left because he was useless.
Whyte claimed he was a “lifelong supporter” of Rangers Football Club and previously held an executive box at Ibrox Stadium.[3][6] Speculation arose in 2010 that he might launch a bid to buy the indebted Scottish football club.
if you attend games you support Ogilvie and the SFA, you may as well wear an SFA lapel pin.
blogging will not change the sfa, but action will
chipsandblog says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 23:43
Whyte claimed he was a “lifelong supporter” of Rangers Football Club and previously held an executive box at Ibrox Stadium.[3][6] Speculation arose in 2010 that he might launch a bid to buy the indebted Scottish football club.
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Wikipedia is wonderful but I’m still not sure what point you’re trying to make.
What right do The Rangers have to be in the top division
“The Scottish Rite”
my point is Scottish football put a failed cricket boss in charge when rangers were heading towards administration.You mentioned Regan was in place years before Rangers went into administration. I suggest you read wikipedia so you do not continue to make a fool of yourself
Regan was appointed in 2010. Rangers went into administration in 2012. I really don’t see any connection between the two events. A conspiracy too far, no?
Rangers were on the administration train for several years before they pulled into liquidation station. As for your statement, you mentioned years between regans appointment and rfc finally going into administration before dying. It was under 2 years so i fail to understand your non wiki waffle.
try to stick to the facts dear.
you might want to ask your brother bright spark to answer for you as this is getting dull.
I hate myself, I really do, but I’ll bite. To be pedantic 2010, 2011 and 2012 are years. And if we’re sticking to facts I’m sure you wouldn’t have any problem providing the blog with some regarding Ogilvie and his plans. If we’re sticking to the facts?
As much as I have enjoyed reading and contributing to RTC and now TSFM, I feel my life ebbing away in frustration…
WRT Scottish football governance – does anyone think it has improved since February last year?
Does anyone think that governance has in fact plunged to new lows since last year?
And does anyone have confidence that things will improve in Scottish football?
Are we now consigned to endless years of bitterness and negativitity as a consequence of accommodating one club?
The SFA/SPL – and the clubs – are assuming that the fans’ brand loyalty will mean that the majority will still pay their money – regardless of any perceived rule bending, cheating etc…
But if the fans – the consumers – said “No, I’m not having this” and chose to spend their leisure time – and money – elsewhere, then the SFA/SPL and clubs would then be on the back foot.
They would have to engage the paying customers and improve their ‘product and service’.
We now know that business trumps sport in Scottish football.
No business has a divine right to survive: they have to work hard to stay in business.
Being customer- focused is a helpful strategy. 🙄
The power lies with the fans/the consumers. It always has been, and always will be.
If the fans want change in Scottish football they can make it happen.
StevieBC says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 04:42
As much as I have enjoyed reading and contributing to RTC and now TSFM, I feel my life ebbing away in frustration
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Judging by the rest of your post you have some faith left. I have none, I have left the game and to be fair all to do with Scotland behind excepting this blog and even this now is hard to read. In my eyes it is over.
incredibleadamspark says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 23:34
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Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 23:23
Danish, Agree with you 100%
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I’ve certainly leaned more to incompetence than conspiracy, up until now. But those who sense that part of ‘the fabric of Scottish society’ has been dealt with leniently – because of a nod and a wink at some discreet and exclusive social function for the rich and powerful – cannot be dismissed out of hand any more.
The utter nonsense of involving law lords was illustrated when two of them contrdicted one another about a transfer embargo. Our esteemed football administrators really need to find new employment. Barring that, a number of like-minded clubs could discuss ditching the current governing bodies with a view to establishing their own, citing incompetence and possible corruption. That threat alone might cause some some change. Teams in a European place could approach UEFA with a view to participating under the UEFA flag until the new body was up and running.
So let me get this right
A TV company (who’s main interest is to get supporters to stay at home and watch games ) is now deciding who plays in our top league ,how low do we need sink before we get off our erse and put plans in place to sort our game / sport .
TV revenue should be a bonus not part of needed revenue to run your club ,if it is then you have to cut your costs and the reasons should be relayed directly to your clubs fans .
The headline should be
TO ENSURE SPORTING INTEGRITY AND A FAIR AND HONEST GAME .
No more big money contracts for players ( let the thousand,s of pound contracts run out and bring other younger ,hungrier player through on sustainable wages ) .If this means players go elsewhere then so be it .
Now that you have cut the biggest drain on revenue off you can drop ticket prices to an affordable level .
Now that you have told the TV company to take a hike ,concentrate on getting armchair fans back to being supporters .
If costs are cut across the board it may not make for better fooball (although that’s debatable) but it should make for a more competitive league .
The smaller clubs will benefit most ,they have good ,smaller stadia ,my club Celtic on the other hand will suffer more as a 60,000 seat stadium will not be sustainable and if player wages are cut
a lot of supporters will be up in arms ,to this I say ,SO WHAT .
The club should put it on the line ,it has to be done to ensure it is an honest game ,so if you don’t like it to bad anyone who thinks they could not say that ,think again because that is exactly what the peepil are telling us right now ,sevco are getting put into the SPL ASAP so we can charge you the over inflated prices to allow us to keep over paying mediocre players .
If supporters walk away because we are not buying players to compete in the CL at the expense of an honest domestic game then that will be up to them but I would rather attend games evey week with 20,000 celtic football supporters than 60.000 glory hunters .
The only alternative is to go along with this sham of a set up to attempt to keep an unsustainable franchise limping along till it dies completely
Charles coming out with some guff in today’s papers
“The current Rangers team are the worst Ibrox has ever seen, according to the club’s chief executive Charles Green. (Sun)”
“Rangers chief executive Charles Green has taken legal advice as he plans to take the former Scottish Premier League club into the English league.
Full story: Daily Mirror “
macbrayne says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 00:01
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What right do The Rangers have to be in the top division
“The Scottish Rite”
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The Funeral Rite ?
StevieBC says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 04:42
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As much as I have enjoyed reading and contributing to RTC and now TSFM, I feel my life ebbing away in frustration…
WRT Scottish football governance – does anyone think it has improved since February last year?
Does anyone think that governance has in fact plunged to new lows since last year?
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As Auldheid states Stevie, it’s with the fans now, they still have the power to change the way the game is run via their financial clout. Question is, have they just become too tired to bother and will accept things as they are? I suppose much of the debate will move from this forum to individual club message boards in the next months.
Court cases and police investigations still have some way to run on the other issue.
Here’s a guy who does express his outrage though, via confrontational journalism!
http://glasgowradio.blogspot.dk/
SPL titles can be removed by the SPL…Does not require input from the SFA..
paulmac2 says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 08:10
SPL titles can be removed by the SPL…Does not require input from the SFA..
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Not a hope in hell of that happening though
bill1903 says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 07:40
Charles coming out with some guff in today’s papers
“The current Rangers team are the worst Ibrox has ever seen, according to the club’s chief executive Charles Green. (Sun)”
“Rangers chief executive Charles Green has taken legal advice as he plans to take the former Scottish Premier League club into the English league.
Full story: Daily Mirror “
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The English leagues must be falling over themselves to get the worst ever Rangers team into their competitions. Has Charles Green been taking lessons in how to pitch from Neil Doncaster?
“The current Rangers team are the worst Ibrox has ever seen, according to the club’s chief executive Charles Green. (Sun)”
Charles giving Ally lessons in motivational management again 😀
greenockjack says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 19:56
However when I mention Celtic and their part, I don´t think you understand fully.
The train wreck was there but those within the Celtic support that are politically active wanted to maximise damage, push and lobby for it.
If you didn´t see it, recognize it, ok but believe me it happened.
In fact it makes for a hugely complex subject in itself.
thanks for responding – sounds intriguing and a story that ought to be told, and am sure we’d all love to hear it. Thing is, for every politically-active supporter on the Celtic side, there are multiples of that on the blue, fabric-of-society side, who believe in their omnipotence and, frankly, don’t give a flying fig about anyone else. Slash and burn for those who don’t agree.
If I had access to people with sporting-governance, political or legal clout, then regardless of which club I support, I would be using every channel available to me to confront the corruption at the core of Scottish football; to not do so is to be complicit in a dictatorship of thought and deed. Dictatorship sounds a bit over the top, but if a country can’t run a football association free of corruption, what chance running the country itself any differently?
when can we expect a statement from celtic on refusing to accept the conclusions of the nimmo report and appealing the decision.
when can we expect a statement from celtic demanding an inquiry into the clear pro-rangers bias at the sfa.
No, I dont agree. RIFC are better for having David Cooper Templeton. So they were worse at the start of the season than they are now. That covers the entire history. If you want to go back and compare them to 1874 onwards, during the 70’s & 80’s there were some right dumplins playing at ibrox, so they must be rid rotten now. But you can’t really compare the two or three different clubs. I hope the current staff take that as constructive Charlie, I’ll miss him.
I have said before that friends who have met Campbell Ogilvie say he comes across as a decent guy.
When Stewart Regan came on board he seemed to be full of bright ideas and appeared to have a game plan for Scottish Football.
Now people may have conspiracy theories but usually when things go pear shaped it is because people don’t take responsibility or make clear cut decisions.
Say what you like about Charles Green but he has a game plan and is trying to stick to it.
Ogilvie and Regan are merely rabbits caught in the headlights.
There is no great plan.
These two are just a couple of lads who have been promoted to a few levels above their degree of competency.
Afraid to make decisions, afraid to take responsibility for current and past actions, afraid to rule without fear or favour, afraid of transparency.
That is why they should go. They have been found out over the last few years as not being up to the job. Not only in relation to T’Rangers fiasco but on a number of major issues affecting Scottish Football (reconsturction, national team management etc etc)
It is as simple as that.
upthehoops says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 22:02
… after all, the 5 way agreement …
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Note that Mr McCoist is on record as speaking about “the 4 or 5 way agreement, which was never agreed anyway …”
wottpi says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 09:39
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I have said before that friends who have met Campbell Ogilvie say he comes across as a decent guy.
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A decent guy would have stood down from his position as soon as it became clear that he was heavily conflicted. There’s a lot more to being a decent guy than being good company in the pub or on the golf course. It’s about doing the right (dare I say honourable) thing even when it’s inconvenient.
wottpi says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 09:39
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I agree 100%.
Both should be removed from the job simply for the reason that they are out of their depth, they did not applies the rules “without fear or favour”. CO also because he is conflicted with him having been party to the EBT fiasco at both organisations.
neepheid says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 09:51
Agreed, but thats what happens when a ‘decent’ guy gets thrown into situations they are not capable of dealing with.
CO couldn’t handle or stand up to SDM and he doesn’t know what to do with Green.
The decent thing to do would be to go and acknowledge that being decent just isn’t enough. You also need to have a strength of character and a degree of conviction as to what you are doing.
Mr Green and his plan to try and play in England. I think he should point out the following to his fans.
Referees will not be able to help you (unless you tupe some over with you).
You will have NO Mr Ogilvie in the FA.
You cannot sing your wee bigoted songs.
The MSM in England will print things against you. I repeat the MSM will print things against you.
Is this what the fans of sevco want.
Sad to say it would really cheer me up if this farcical scenario actually happened.
angus1983 says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 09:48
… after all, the 5 way agreement …
Note that Mr McCoist is on record as speaking about “the 4 or 5 way agreement, which was never agreed anyway
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Palmerston is said to have said “The Schleswig-Holstein question is so complicated, only three men in Europe have ever understood it. One was Prince Albert, who is dead. The second was a German professor who became mad. I am the third and I have forgotten all about it.”
And in our time, we have the 5-way agreement. Not sure whether McCoist would be the one who went mad or the one who has forgotten about it though
With regards to Sky involvement you have to be slightly fair to them, only slightly mind.
As far as the public domain goes they did not, as I recall, get involved in the punishment saga – rather their supposed views were broadcast through Mr Doncaster – armageddon etc and have become assumed through Provan, Burley and the likes.
They are now looking at renewing their package. They do not appear to have a particularly strong negotiating team up against them. It is not a huge stretch of the imagination for ND to turn up and tell Sky they are the only show in town and not even investigate any BT possibilities, or at least only once he’s been publicy humiliated by Sky, another stunning negotiating stance it has to be said.
They (Sky) are purposely ignoring history, because they can thanks to FTTT and a shallow reading of LNS. They are saying “OK the deal with C & R will be x squillions. The deal with just C will be x-y squillions. Its up to you SPL to manipulate it whichever way you want.” I don’t recall Sky having a say in the distribution of funds through the league. The previous system chosen guaranteed them CFC and RFC, their biggest audience pullers and hence revenue generators, in europe every year. What were they going to do, complain?
I don’t like it but Sky do not sell true sporting itegrity, that is not their remit. They pays their monies and expect, nay TRUST, others to supply the integrity bit. That they didn’t, that they won’t is not Sky’s problem as long as the punters pay their subs. In choosing to ride roughshod over fans thus improving the package from Sky’s perspective is not their problem. I am therefore not convinced it is entirely at their behest.
chipsandblog.
non sinas bastardi tere te deorsum.
I so hope CG gets his way and sevco move down south…….. All my good wishes to down south 🙂 however unfortunately most of the peepil will still be living here 🙁
I think though that they are wanted down there as much as the non-peepil want them up here!! It will never happen but we must have hope 🙂
Saul Alinsky’s rules for radicals.
It might be helpful to look at the strategy and theories for change, and how radicals should confront the power holders. Saul Alinksy, the Amercian academic and organiser wrote about this in the 70s. From Wikipedia:-
“For Alinsky, organizing is the process of highlighting whatever he believed to be wrong and convincing people they can actually do something about it. The two are linked. If people feel they don’t have the power to change a situation, they stop thinking about it.”
“Through a process combining hope and resentment, the organizer tries to create a “mass army” that brings in as many recruits as possible”.
“There’s another reason for working inside the system. Dostoyevsky said that taking a new step is what people fear most. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and chance the future”.
Saul Alinsky’s rules for radicals:
• RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood.
• RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
• RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
• RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
• RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
• RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
• RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news.
• RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
• RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
• RULE 10: “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.” It is the unceasing pressure that will result in the reaction of the opposition that is essential for the success of the campaign.
• RULE 11: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
• RULE 12: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
• RULE 13: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
Food for thought?
bill1903 says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 07:40
“Rangers chief executive Charles Green has taken legal advice as he plans to take the former Scottish Premier League club into the English league.”
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That’s interesting. Can you do that with the “former SPL club” that’s in liquidation?
(Mr Green has been very clear that *his* club have never been in the SPL, so I presume this story refers to RFC 2012 plc.)
Read the posts about Sevco getting back into SPL next season.
Here is a scenario to think about.
We all know ra peepil are all about “superiority” that is their mantra and mindset.
So now “the worst TRFC team in history” (copyright C.Green) goes into SPL and then has to fight RELEGATION and heaven forbid, actually WAS relegated. How would ra peepil cope with such embarrassment? and how long would it take the rest of us to stop LAUGHING??
Karma comes in many guises.
gerrylentils says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 09:32
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when can we expect a statement from celtic on refusing to accept the conclusions of the nimmo report and appealing the decision.
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When can we expect one from Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hibs, Motherwell etc.
Why would we expect one from any of them, individually. It was the SPL which carried out the inquiry, found there was a prima facie case against one club and passed the matter to their independent panel. As was the unanimously agreed procedure.
I’m afraid I find it difficult to understand the concept of the SPL appealing what is effectively it’s own imposed punishment. I might not like that but that’s the way I feel.
“The current Rangers team are the worst Ibrox has ever seen, according to the club’s chief executive Charles Green. (Sun)”
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“Say what you like about Charles Green but he has a game plan and is trying to stick to it.”
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Like I said HMRC, LNS, Lord Hodge, Strathclyde, UEFA/FIFA et.al. have all let him down – it’s time ‘ for desperate times’
This will show, once again, the calibre of Mc Coist.
The exit strategy was never meant to be this complicated – his backers must be mental!.
bill1903 says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 07:40
Charles coming out with some guff in today’s papers
“The current Rangers team are the worst Ibrox has ever seen, according to the club’s chief executive Charles Green. (Sun)”
“Rangers chief executive Charles Green has taken legal advice as he plans to take the former Scottish Premier League club into the English league.
Full story: Daily Mirror “
……………………………….
I don’t think Charlie has thought this through or it’s all B***S*** as usual.
For Charlie’s new club to join the league of another association would require going to the European courts…and to be fair I believe he could win…
However…in his thoughtless moment of…’look at me look at me’….a ruling by the European courts would result in the 4 home associations having to be dissolved and a UK Football association created…
The English FA dissolved
The Welsh FA dissolved
The Northern Irish FA dissolved
The Scottish FA dissolved
Can you imagine how those in the English FA would feel? an Englishman wanting the dissolvement of the English FA….(this is starting to sound funny) I don’t suppose the Welsh or Irish would be best pleased either…
And that being the case transferring into a structure where you have no friends…in fact probably created a helluva lot more enemies…as opposed to the SFA who will do whatever you ask…Charlie hasn’t really thought this through has he?
FIFA have wanted the above associations to merge into 1 for some time due to the 4 votes they carry on the FIFA council of 8….as well as the resentment from a number of African and European associations to what they see as 1 country with 4 votes.
Go on Charlie take them to the European courts…and watch as the English FA in their fight to remain seperate…call you out as a new club who have no right to be playing football in the SFL!
Senior says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 10:57
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Like I said HMRC, LNS, Lord Hodge, Strathclyde, UEFA/FIFA et.al. have all let him down – it’s time ‘ for desperate times’
This will show, once again, the calibre of Mc Coist.
The exit strategy was never meant to be this complicated – his backers must be mental!.
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Today we’re getting a rehash of yesterday’s Talksport interview, sliced into easy to swallow headlines. He did say though that they would have sold to the WS consortium almost right away, but I take i the profit margin was not nearly enough.
Tommy in Glasgow, yes Tommy, made an interesting point about December 2013 on his bampot podcast. He reckoned as long as the share price was still at an ok level in 2013/12 then the recipients of the 1p shares can make an exit with a tidy sum one year on from their lock-in. Maybe a Christmas sale? Or an Asian takeaway perhaps?
Btw, interview on Talksport coming up on match-fixing …
gerrylentils says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 09:32
when can we expect a statement from celtic on refusing to accept the conclusions of the nimmo report and appealing the decision. when can we expect a statement from celtic demanding an inquiry into the clear pro-rangers bias at the sfa.
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If you mean a public statement I would say never and hope that that was indeed the case.
I have no doubt that Celtic will use whatever channels at their disposal with the SPL & SFA to make their position known as a club which is a member of both organisations.
Personally I think the main thrust for Celtic must be to keep running its successful business model to help provide the cash to guarantee on-field success. We will get a crack at Europe next year but there are severe hurdles to be faced in the qualifying rounds – this is of more interest and worry to me than things that are outwith the actual control of the club concerning Rangers.
To date I think the Celtic response overall has been measured towards the Rangers situation and long may it continue because we all know in the West of Scotland just how easy it is for sectarian violence to erupt when the football fuse is lit.
Sporting Integrity is important and something which always must be pursued but we have to live with the imperfections that are the reality of Scottish Football and the biggest problem is the combination of shocking ineptness and corruption at the core of the SFA.
And this cannot be tackled by Celtic alone but needs to be tackled by the vast majority of Scottish fans and clubs. Is it possible to mobilise this movement? That’s a difficult one but it is possible. One thing I am clear about is that the target has got to be the SFA and not Rangers even though there may be a linkage because of some of the issues but the heart of the problem lies within the SFA.
Sadly IMO too many people are intent on nothing less than the total destruction of Rangers and they aren’t exclusively Celtic fans. I believe this obsession, which many cloak as Sporting Integrity, is actually a barrier to dealing with the main problem.
There were dark mutterings when the SFL said they wouldn’t be stripping Rangers of titles but the more I read the LNS Decision the more I believe it just couldn’t have been done within the existing rules especially with the seemingly childish legal preparations made for the Hearing by the SPL whose responsibility it was to provide the evidence for the SPL/SFA case to LNS.
It also must be remembered that the SPL refused to demand specific sanctions against Rangers should they be found ‘guilty’ but left this to LNS – what an act of cowardice by the SPL who also failed to show what ‘sporting advantage’ Rangers had gained from the EBTs and/or the flawed registration process.
I am not a lawyer but I fail to see that any appeal against the LNS findings would be successful. What is required is a total rewriting of the rule books to remove the glaring inadequacies revealed by the LNS Hearing and also to ensure that the rule books of different football organisations are at one with each other and nor contradictory as is the case currently.
I am not suggesting we just move along and accept and forget what has happened. That is the last thing we need to do but there is no point IMO in fighting battles which have been lost – we have to look to positive ways to attack the root causes of the corruption that exists and I’m afraid that blaming shadowy establishment figures and funny handshakes no longer cuts it for me as it is just an excuse for some people to give up and walk away.
As I’ve said before I will not be walking anywhere but will continue to support Celtic and at some stage I have no doubt that our first team will not be playing in Scotland and hopefully the league set-up we end up in will be cleaner than what we leave behind.
I also believe deep down that perhaps the absence of Rangers and Celtic will give Scottish Football the ability to cleanse itself of all the SPL and SFA parasites and build a leaner more transparent and honest league system with competitive football among teams more equal in playing and commercial strengths.
timalloy67 says:
Friday, March 8, 2013 at 10:34
Read the posts about Sevco getting back into SPL next season.
Here is a scenario to think about.
We all know ra peepil are all about “superiority” that is their mantra and mindset.
So now “the worst TRFC team in history” (copyright C.Green) goes into SPL and then has to fight RELEGATION and heaven forbid, actually WAS relegated. How would ra peepil cope with such embarrassment? and how long would it take the rest of us to stop LAUGHING??
Karma comes in many guises.
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Good point t but Chuck is way ahead of you; he has already stated that he would refuse any invitation to play in a higher league whilst the registration embargo was in place. Rest assured if the authorities do choose to go for broke then the slates would be wiped clean and the transfer ban terminated.
How they would react to having to actually spend money in the transfer market I’m still certain they don’t have would be just as interesting.
“Senior” I’m agreed with you that CG must be pulling what’s left of his hair out thinking “how do I/We get out of here” …. Bet he could write a best-seller about his many attempted escapes from Scottish Fitba only to be kept in situe by “the unbelievably corrupt custodians of oor gem ! ….. Titled “yer goan naewhere chico” …… !
Ian King lets rip, I thought Brenda had wrote it!!
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4830359/King-Green-should-show-more-dignity.html
Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 21:14
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shield2012 says:
Thursday, March 7, 2013 at 14:54
… It wasn’t that long ago when claims of corruption were frowned upon by big names on here. Also, any unsupported views of Lord Nimmo Smith, or other such figures, were discouraged.
Now? Well we have the majority of posters claiming that it’s all down to the establishment or a higher power that is present to aid TRFC. LNS is corrupt just as much as the SFA and other high powered organisations in Scotland …
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It was perhaps to this blog’s credit that it put any faith in LNS in the first place:
http://voicefromthenorth.blogspot.dk/2005/01/lothian-and-borders-police-evidence-of.html
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we should have known better DP;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c1IqjsWsWE