The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.
It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”
The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.
The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.
But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.
David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.
The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte. In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.
Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).
If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.
The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.
Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.
To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.
If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?
First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.
So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?
Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.
Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?
Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.
What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?
Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?
Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.
And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?
Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”
As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.
I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.
The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?
And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?
Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.
I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.
ismellafix says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 09:40
If so, the CEO of an AIM listed company, clearly states that the company will grow 8x in value over the next five years and this in a company where shares are publicly traded.
Is this legal?
================
No, it isn’t, it’s called “ramping” and as a holder of over 8% of the shares, Green has a huge personal interest in talking up the share price.
http://www.sfo.gov.uk/fraud/what-is-fraud/corporate-fraud/share-ramping.aspx
I’m drafting my letter to the FSA right now. He has probably violated various Stock Exchange rules, so I’ll let them have a copy as well.
And if there isn’t £20m in the bank right now, then he really is sailing close to the wind. All of this is price sensitive information, and he should keep his mouth shut, even if it’s true. Sadly, Green just can’t help it. Motormouth hardly begins to describe him.
There’s clearly something about the number 500 million that appeals to Green. First he’s got 500 million fans, then his company is going to be worth £500m. I would have thought a club with 500 million fans worldwide would have more in Australia, though. Maybe they’re mostly Chinese?
Easyjambo trailed the big-match yesterday but now appears to have gone into hiding – so here is the score and match report
St Johnstone Under 20s 2-0 Hearts Under 20s (McDiarmid Park)
Saints fielded no over-age outfield players and there was a start for Swansea City loan man Gwion Edwards.
Saints have also signed released Newcastle United 19 year old Marcus Maddison but international clearance was not received in time for him to take part in the game.
The first half was goalless with play swinging from end to end. Hearts keeper Mark Ridgers did well to stop a Liam Caddis shot after a fine run from Gwion Edwards while at the other end Gordon Smith saw an effort hit the bar for the visitors.
Both the goals came in the second half. The first was from the penalty spot after a superb Gwion Edwards run saw him upended in the box by Prychynenko. The Hearts man was booked – his second yellow of the evening – and he headed up the tunnel as Liam Caddis rattled home the spot kick. Two minutes later it was Edwards who was the goalscorer as he accepted a Shaun Meikle pass before firing the ball home.
There were half-chances for both sides before the end but in the end St Johnstone were well worth the 2-0 win.
Come back easyjambo all is forgiven 🙂
ismellafix says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 09:40
1 0 Rate This
CG allegedly says “When our share price went up many investors took their money and left and that is fine. Rangers are currently only valued at £60M. We will be worth half a billion in 5 years. We are selling shares in an institution and many fans have invested so will help to control the club. The latest Deloitte report shows that when you exclude the money from Sky TV Rangers are bigger than Aston Villa, Sunderland and Everton combined. With TV money, we will be massive”.
If so, the CEO of an AIM listed company, clearly states that the company will grow 8x in value over the next five years and this in a company where shares are publicly traded.
Is this legal?
…………
I think you will find that was not written by Charles green and I will be amazed if there is any video or audio of his saying that
Neep heid add this to your list of lies.
Lie
CG – When our share price went up many investors took their money and left and that is fine. Rangers are currently only valued at £60M.
Truth
Updated Monthly
Company address Ibrox Stadium, 160 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow, G51 2XD, United Kingdom
Company website http://www.rangers.co.uk
Market cap(in millions)* £ 46.14
Listing/Admission to trading 19 Dec 2012
Trading service SETSqx
Market AIM
dreddybhoy says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 10:25
I think you will find that was not written by Charles green and I will be amazed if there is any video or audio of his saying that
======
I’ll be amazed if there isn’t, I’m sure somebody will have captured this on a smartphone or whatever. In any case, a transcript has now been published, so it surely stands as a true record unless Green wishes to issue a denial. I look forward to that!
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 10:00
exiledcelt says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 08:48
http://www.sydneytrueblues.com/2013/02/12/charles-green-qa-report/
————————————————
“In Feb 2012, just 2 weeks after the club went into administration we held the ORSA AGM in Perth”
I thought it was only Celtic supporters who got quite that excited about Rangers going into administration
====================================================================
absolutely brilliant . . . you have a way with srodw !!
i noticed that chuckles ad also te msm all happy to mention “administration”, but do not mention
LIQUIDATION.
maybe they think that it never happened and everybody will not notice or forget.
what is the differance between ADMINISTRATION and LIQUIDATION ?
chico?
anyone?
Sorry, got it wrong. From the Sydney supporters website- “Anything reported below can not be taken as a direct quote as no audio recording of the meeting was allowed.”
So Green isn’t stupid!
Celtic competed well last night and only the most myopic wouldn’t agree. More shots on goal, more possession, more corners – sure Juve were defending an early goal but Celtic get regularly castigated for not winning on “stats”. The early mistake, the counter and the coup de grace when heads finally dropped made the scoreline flattering to Juve IMO.
The reality was that teams from diddy leagues (like the SPL) do not have the strength in depth that teams form the richer leagues have – our starting 11s can compete (even win in Porto’s case), but after that we struggle.
Evidence of that was Celtic playing Efe Ambrose 3 days after he won the African Cup of nations in South Africa. Juve had a player in similar circumstances that they chose to rest. Ambrose missed our best chance and was involved in 2 of their goals. I’m absolutely not blaming him for the result or for Lennie picking him over Rogne (5 starts) or Gershon (1 start), just that these are the cards we are dealt.
Re: Subs. Adam Matthews was a straight replacement for an injured Lustig – that’s a no-brainer. Watt for Commons? Taking off a midfielder who had played his heart out, but maybe whose legs were going a bit and putting on a young pacey striker with for the last 20minutes chasing the game? Seems logical to me. Who should have been put on? Miku? Then Kayal for Scott Brown? Broonie was on a yellow, we were 2-0 down with 10mins to go. I don’t see the substitutions as costing us the game in any way and given the shots on goal, possession etc, I’mnot sure anyone can say Lennie’s tactics were “wrong”. For depth: see Juve bringing on Anelke for the last 5 mins.
Ref was poor in that he declined to make decisions – his giving yellows to both players involved in incidents reminded me of a schoolteacher who gives the whole class detention rather than actually punish the troublemaker.
If he’d given an indirect free-kick to Celtic for the Juve lad’s wresting, that would have curbed it. Then if Hooper blocks the keepr (as he most probably would have tried if he’d had the chance) he could have given a free kick the other way, everyone whould know where they stand. Instead of the distracting farce we ended up with. Ditto booking Brown for trying to get away from the guy holding him.
Hey ho, we’re out but the Bhoys have doen well to ge tthis far. Thanks for the millions lhads. :o)
Jim Traynor is a great weapon. He’s picking up the lingo mind you. I’ll miss him.
Re Yorkie’s comments on Traynor, aren’t these ridiculous things to say? That he’s there to harm anyone who tries to harm RFC*; that he has something on all MSMS members, so they’ll be sh***ing themselves? Oh, so that’s what a director of communications is for! I get it now.
those waiting for the CQN boys scoop
O.G.Rafferty 10:19 on 13 February, 2013
The story will be up around late afternoon/early evening, in time for your tea
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:03
At least I can give the F5 button a rest until 🙂
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:08
At least I can give the F5 button a rest until
============================================================
I wonder if the OG Rafferty scoop and Alex Thomo’s stories are one and the same – or if we might get 2 new tales of mirth today.
Galling fiver says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 10:50
Jim Traynor is a great weapon.
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Having laughed through the Orlit communications disaster the word that comes to mind is: ‘TOOL’.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:16
0 0 Rate This
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:08
At least I can give the F5 button a rest until
============================================================
I wonder if the OG Rafferty scoop and Alex Thomo’s stories are one and the same – or if we might get 2 new tales of mirth today.
———-
@scotzine said it also had some Craigy Whyte for the fan a few days ago. Same story? Truth will out …
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:26
i’m gonna guess variations on the same story then…..the Scotzine chap was making noises as well last week…dangling a wee fishy for us to bite, but then pulled back and went quiet. Looks like the story has been verified.
Good to know that it is a CW story and not LNS/HMRC/Orlit related…..means there is plenty more about to appear to keep us all on our toes
Come back Craigie
These Spivs couldn`t lace your boots
torrejohnbhoy says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 09:21
Thanks for that Johnbhoy….that was brilliant 🙂
I suspect that the story will be that Alex Tommo has Green, Ahmed or Stockbridge on tape offering CW a million quid and six “debentures” in the executive box for services rendered. This offer was probably later reneged on by Green and so our hero is releasing the tapes.
Green in the knowledge that this is about to hit has been getting in first telling the various supporters clubs that he always tells the truth, doesn’t give into threats or blackmail, and that the delusional Whyte approached him. It will be portrayed as “All a bit of joke, really”.
Perhaps, and I don’t want to sound goosygoosy on this one, just maybe CW is actually behind the Orlitt invoice?
Stuartcosgrove,
“Both the goals came in the second half. The first was from the penalty spot after a superb Gwion Edwards run saw him upended in the box by Prychynenko. The Hearts man was booked – his second yellow of the evening – and he headed up the tunnel as Liam Caddis rattled home the spot kick. Two minutes later it was Edwards who was the goalscorer as he accepted a Shaun Meikle pass before firing the ball home.”
At least somebody got a penalty last night! 🙁
Seriously tho…
Sounds like a good game. If you had to pick a player who looks ready to step out of the under 20s from either team, who would it be? Next big thing in Scottish football?
Not a gambling man but if I was to place a bet it would also be a link between CW and Mr A and/or Mr B, with a financial element. Perhaps them providing a degree of continuity between the regimes.
Q&A – Question 1
Q – Hi Charles, what school did you go to?
—————————————————————————-
Funny in a sense – but he never actually answered the simple question.
He does say that It was not a comprehensive or grammar school and we know that he still holds the school sprint records from at least 45 years ago. Always puzzles me how in a nook of Darkest Yorkshire a school’s sprint records have remained unchanged for 45-50 years.
The English School Sports Association records show a consistent improvement in performance from that time throughout England except in that place where records have apparently stood still.
Or perhaps the school was closed just after Charlie left and technically he actually does hold the record and always will. Perhaps his fondness for World Records actually predates his Blue Period 🙂
” During the summer I was told by other Chairmen that they had no choice to vote us down as their own fans were refusing to buy season tickets – I even offered to pay for the 3,000 season tickets that one club normally sells. They told me they could’t do it as there were fans protesting outside their stadiums.”
“he said that I was the first time anyone from the club had ever spoke to him. That can’t be right. That’s why I have went to the USA and Belfast and I am going up to Stornoway to meet the fans and hear your views. It is so important to listen to the fans”
I think the term for this is cognitive dissonance, i.e holding two opposing ideas in one’s head at the same time.
According to this extract from Wikpedia “It is the distressing mental state that people feel when they “find themselves doing things that don’t fit with what they know, or having opinions that do not fit with other opinions they hold”
So there you have it – Charlies off his heid, a comforting thought for his followers..
Johnbhoy75 (@Johnbhoy75) says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:48
0 0 Rate This
I suspect that the story will be that Alex Tommo has Green, Ahmed or Stockbridge on tape offering CW a million quid and six “debentures” in the executive box for services rendered. This offer was probably later reneged on by Green and so our hero is releasing the tapes.
————————————
thats what i’m guessing at…..Green said that CW asked for this in the australian love in AND THAT HE AGREED TO IT
So why not?
However, unless there is some legal contract stating CG will give CW 6 directors box seats and £1M then it’s a non story.
I hope it’s not that (unless there is some meat to it)
chipsandblog says:
most fans of small teams support or lean towards a big team. I have never known a fan of a small club to be indifferent towards Celtic or Rangers. They either lean to one, the other or despise them and blame them for all their ills.
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Are you a ‘journalist’ by any chance? or are you Keith Jackson? 😉
arabest1 says:
more like JT speak if you ask me!
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:26
It is the same story whatever it is. OG has often led on AT stories.
Text my son earlier to say CW was about to show face again. He said he was off work today so would keep an eye on SSN….
Aw, bless him 🙂
• Hong Kong – 15 members
• Perth – 79
• Adelaide – 18
• Melbourne 1 – 22
• Melbourne 2 – 20
• Northern Beaches – 20
• Sydney – 55
• Gold Coast – 18
• Brisbane 24
• Northern Territory – 14
• Kiwi True Blues– 28
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Global Brand?
One thing that struck me, why 2 Melbourne clubs?
It reminds me of a joke about the 2 presbyterians marooned on a desert island for 30 years. When rescued is it appears they have built 3 churches, one of the men was asked why 3 churches, to which he replied….’I go to that one……he goes to that one …….and neither of us would ever step foot in that one!’
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:55
Johnbhoy75 (@Johnbhoy75) says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:48
I suspect that the story will be that Alex Tommo has Green, Ahmed or Stockbridge on tape offering CW a million quid and six “debentures” in the executive box for services rendered. This offer was probably later reneged on by Green and so our hero is releasing the tapes.
————————————
thats what i’m guessing at…..Green said that CW asked for this in the australian love in AND THAT HE AGREED TO IT
So why not?
However, unless there is some legal contract stating CG will give CW 6 directors box seats and £1M then it’s a non story.
I hope it’s not that (unless there is some meat to it)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course, whilst oft derided as not worth the paper it’s written on, a verbal contract is nonetheless legal in Scotland and WILL be enforced by a court in many cases. If CW has such a thing on tape, CG could be in a tricky position. I guess we’ll all hear by this evening.
stuartcosgrove says: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 10:10
Come back easyjambo all is forgiven 🙂
======================
Hi Stuart – I’m never in hiding. Saints fully deserved their win last night although the game turned on the red card incident. The best of our U20s are already playing with the first team.
I seem to remember during the trailing of the impending story over the last few days, someone mentioned there being a paper trail. If so the story will have a documentary aspect to it.
Johnbhoy75 (@Johnbhoy75) says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 11:48
5 0 Rate This
I suspect that the story will be that Alex Tommo has Green, Ahmed or Stockbridge on tape offering CW a million quid and six “debentures” in the executive box for services rendered. This offer was probably later reneged on by Green and so our hero is releasing the tapes.
Green in the knowledge that this is about to hit has been getting in first telling the various supporters clubs that he always tells the truth, doesn’t give into threats or blackmail, and that the delusional Whyte approached him. It will be portrayed as “All a bit of joke, really”.
Perhaps, and I don’t want to sound goosygoosy on this one, just maybe CW is actually behind the Orlitt invoice?
_______________
Perceptive post and very plausible. I skim read the reported words of Charles (when will you change your surname…. who are these people??) Green in Australia and the comment about Craig Whyte jumped out in a what is he talking about way (even more than some of the others). 😉
I once saw an excellent QC handle a potentially damaging negative piece of evidence by, to some extent, “defusing” or neutralising it by having it openly referred to by the party it could harm. Wouldn’t surprise me if CG’s comments are linked to the Tomo exclusive to come.
The offer to pay 3,000 season ticket sales is just laughable. How would Arabs have taken news that Dundee United would ignore their concerns because TRFC were prepared to fund 3,000 empty seats. Intelligent suggestion to help club with a sustainable business model or gibberish from an attention seeker?
shield2012 says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 08:35
6 91 i Rate This
“I thought Celtic showed the class and quality to play at this level, just lacking in experience against a classy and savvy Italian side. No shame in the way they played.”
…….can the same be said of Neil Lennon?
———————————————————————-
Sorry to resort to what will be seen as whattaboutery, but if we are going to apply standards of class and dignity they should be applied equally across the board.
Q: Which dignified football manager made the following statement in 2009?
“Tonight, he opted out of what was a clear-cut decision. In the Champions League, you would expect a better decision from a fairly clear-cut set of circumstances.
‘The referee was perfectly positioned. They have to make a strong decision, especially at this level. When they are chosen as the best referees, you can at times say that anybody can make an error — but that was fairly clear-cut, he was up with the play and he saw it.
‘You have to say he opted out of a decision. For a referee at this level, that is disappointing”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1217075/You-bottler-Walter-Smith-hits-ref-Rangers-pay-penalty-blunder.html#axzz2KmYW0MVG
ALL managers question refereeing decisions on a regular basis but only Neil Lennon’s seem to be held up to scrutiny in Scotland. Well apart maybe from Kenny Shiels.
Johnbhoy75 My money is on you being correct. Remember Chico needed Craigiebhoys shares for his CVA proposition……which did not happen. It was reported at the time that Craigiebhoy had just handed them over! My comment at that time was that I would have advised my client to do a deal with Chico to sell the shares for an agreed equity position in EITHER positions ie CVA or newco. I am sure this is what happened and now Craigiebhoy is seeking redress for his deal which presumably has not been honoured. This deal will be in the same sort of category as Orlit! Chico had to sell his soul to the devil to do this deal……….and now he is going to have to pay!
Craig Levein, during a game enquired of the referee whether he should just take his players off the park.
After the game and on live TV he said there was little point in him bringing a team to play Rangers if that was the sort of refereeing he was up against.
As you say, questioning how good referees are is hardly a new thing. Particularly now in Scotland where it has been established they lie, cheat and collude.
In the times of RTC, I recall some of the more knowledgeable posters, including RTC, mapping out the course this fiasco would/might take.
It was said then that after the 1st stripping of the carcus, another chancer would come along, duly take what they could get and so on. During this time the chancers would turn on one another and then the fun would really begin.
If you guys are right, it looks like the fun’s only just beginning 🙂
A wee teaser from O.G.Rafferty, over on CQN.
O.G.Rafferty
Is this information becoming public likely to be “nuclear” or will those who live without shame merely carry on regardless?
O.G.Rafferty
Philbhoy – It’s just the beginning! 10:44
Damaged goods
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?cqn_match_reports_=celtic-0-3-juventus&cpage=9#comments
And
saltires en sevilla
OG
Keep telling them – they don’t like it , but you knew that 🙂
Now I have a wee favour to ask. Going to pub shortly for post-match debriefings and I want to schedule my entertainment to max -etc
Soooo
Will the evening news be just embarrassing for the 2 gents (sic) IE they can brass their case and the smell remains
Or
They get both metaphoric barrels to the chest, in the sense they cannot survive the official sanctions/penalties ?
A wee nod to either/or will be helpful
======================================
O.G.Rafferty
saltires en sevilla, 11:51 on
One today, one tomorrow.
Tonight’s will be badly compromised. I don’t know yet about tomorrow’s
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?cqn_match_reports_=celtic-0-3-juventus&cpage=10#comments
I wonder if it will be worth tuning into SSB tonight 🙂
starting to unravel for CG….he’s losing them!
from FF
“When I was at Sheffield I paid £500k for a Flo brother – Rangers paid £11.5M too much. The club were spending far too much on players and wages.”
Nice soundbite Chuck but here’s the thing.
Jostein Flo signed for Sheffield Utd in summer 1993 as a replacement for Brian Deane.
You went to Sheffield Utd over two years later.
You didn’t pay anything for a Flo brother.
Stop treating us like idiots.
=========================
wikipedia has CG joining Sheffield in 1996
J Flo LEFT sheffield in 1996
I have been called a lot of things but never a journalist, i take umbrage at that, and then to mention keith jackson as if he ever was a journalist. What a flawed post.
Normally I treat the man with the wee white bricks as a spot of light relief, but these days his rants and official RFC statements are almost indistinguishable. So what are we to make of his hints that Rangers may be about to break all contact with the established media?
I suppose isolation is one way of controling your media output. However, I would think it is very high risk. If the boys and girls in the media stop getting stories fed to them, they may start doing their jobs and looking into things one might much rather they did not?
I would have thought that JT would be far too experienced a tabloid operator to not see the dangers in this approach, he is living in very interesting times indeed!
Totally agree Scapa – biting the hand that feeds is the expression that springs to mind
scapaflow14 says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 14:42
Didn’t Jock Stein do the same, re The Celtic View?
I’m not old enough to know but that’s my Fathers memory of it.
bawsbustedanatha says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 13:24
During this time the chancers would turn on one another and then the fun would really begin.
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Spivocalypse now?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 14:31
Thats the trouble with eating too many pork pies, you forget how many you have had, who you shared them with, and if the same people were there when a different pie was being consumed.
Trouble is that not one person, be that MSM or at these fans meetings, has been reported as asking Charles a decent probing question to make him explain what appear to be ludicrous claims.
Tom English has come closest to shining a light in that direction but still not anywhere near asking the types of questions fans of the Ibrox club and the rest of Scottish Football deserve.
The Orlit issue just shows that Green and JT are on different pages of the hymbook. How can you manage PR in those circumstances?
He might be as honest a guy as he says and could still pull the rabbit from the hat but I think the wheels are going to come of sometime soon, because as you point out the more the bluster continues and the longer the commercial deals fail to materialise, the more people who are on his side will begin to scrutinise everyword he utters
As my mother always used to say :- ‘You’ll always get foond oot’
I ken this is maybe a bit too footballish, but Ive had a look at some of the stats of the Celts Juve game last night.
Celts had more possession, corners, attempts and att. on goal, with the same number of fouls, but came away beat 3-0. Juve scored 3 goals from 4 att. on target.
This indicates the quality they had in attack v our much poorer quality defence. For their three goals they were in behind our defence, but despite our 7 attempts on target, only one got beyond the defence – the Efe chance.
Last time I thought the stats of a game didnt reflect the game result so starkly, was DUtd v Gers recently. In that game the stats were roughly even, but DUtd had a fair bit more class going forward against a dodgy defence. Each goal was from ‘in behind’.
A notable point here is the wages/spending gap between winners and losers in one of these games (Juve and Celtic) where the money spent is reflected in the quality, but in the other match its the wrong way round – Gers spend more on wages but have less quality.
chipsandblog says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 14:36
6 1 i
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I have been called a lot of things but never a journalist, i take umbrage at that, and then to mention keith jackson as if he ever was a journalist. What a flawed post.
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Do keep up C&B! The KJ quip mentioned seperately from ‘journalist’ was the gag!
Nevermind. Are you maybe Murdo McLeod? or Andy Walker? 😉
Seriously that ‘wha’s yer big team’ drivel is exactly the sentiment that has held back Scottish football for decades, and is taken a fact by Glasgow based media pundits and ‘journalists’, Such arrogant, self indulgent, self inflating, shameless self-aggrandising, narcissistic claptrap is supremely inslulting to fans of other clubs who pay hansomely to provide the infrastructure that is Scottish football and gives both the big two their annual trips to Hampden and Europe and subsequent success.
From CQN:
O.G.Rafferty
15:55 on 13 February, 2013
JamsieBhoy, 15:49
It’s getting a bit busy over in the Ibrox PR office…
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-rack/4144
Alex Thompson, what a guy. Hilarity.
Mmmm..goody goody gum drops !!
Looks like the “Weapon” of mass distraction is perhaps being briefed or even de briefed..?
scottc says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:05
0 0 Rate This
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-rack/4144
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is that it? FFS!
scottc says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:05
I see Mr Traynor appears to have mastered the black art of the non-denial denial, much used by the un-lamented Ron Zeigler.
Isn’t it tomorrow that Mr Green is at the Louden?
arabest1 calm down. keep these chips balanced on each shoulder.
Not exactly nuclear but hot enough to get a bit of mild sunburn 🙂
What next from Thomo?
Door stepping JT and doing the car door thing a la Kelvin Mackenzie for our pleasure on Youtube?
NTHM = not sure why you think a journalist makng up a story and then sending it for proof reading to make sure the message is as he wants is not a major piece – nor that he tried to leave DR to got to join CW last year………..
Also note there is more – this is part one….
ON CQN,
O.G.Rafferty
12:15 on 13 February, 2013
saltires en sevilla, 11:51 on
One today, one tomorrow.
Tonight’s will be badly compromised. I don’t know yet about tomorrow’s
Paranoid Timmys everywhere vindicated. Again. Nothing like journalistic integrity, eh James?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:15
scottc says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:05
0 0 Rate This
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-rack/4144
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is that it? FFS!
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I’m guessing so. It certainly fits the ‘hints’. CW involved, somebody high up compromised, documented.
However, didn’t O.G. Rafferty suggest there was one today and another tomorrow? Or did I misunderstand that?
Any thing that proves what a low life that Traynor is, is news I certainly want to here.
Thanks Tommo keep it going.
I wonder if there is more to come?
Stage 1: dissable the PR machine with an opening volley;
Stage 2: more bad news – the main story.
Wishful thinking on my part?
Carl31 (@C4rl31) says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 15:46
……………………………………
The score did flatter Juve…but thats what can happen at that level of football…
It is also worth pointing out Juve have not lost a European game in their previous 17 games….they have become a very typical Italian team….difficult to beat and clinical up front on the counter..
I thought we were worth at least a draw last night…hay ho…onwards and upwards!
Now Charlie Green…..he really has become the 3rd Chuckle brother…what a card!
O G Rafferty seemed to be hinting at a double whammy of a story today then a follow-up tomorrow. And Scotzine on Twitter was alleging story about to break re C.Green – linked?
He breaks the NUJ Code of Conduct. Get him out.
http://www.nuj.org.uk/files/NUJ_Code_of_Conduct.pdf
My initial impressions were “so what?”.
However, you need to think about who the real audience were for this. The article was aimed at the Rangers fans and keeping them on board. Compliant, if you like. James Traynor was a willing participant in pulling the wool over the eyes of the Rangers fans.
I think the most damning thing was that the £15M was not to be a direct quote. James Traynor knew there was no £15M transfer treasure chest. He lied to the fans and colluded with CW.
Shameful.
Who in the Scottish media can be trusted to operate impartially ? I remember once listening to real radio and Ewen Cameron was giving an exclusive from a source about RFC when he accidently let slip that Murray had given him the story.
That Craig Whyte’s a right wee grass – you better give him what he wants Charlie before it gets messier.
I don’t know what is worser, a spiv or a grass. Any of youse know?
exiledcelt says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:25
NTHM = not sure why you think a journalist makng up a story and then sending it for proof reading to make sure the message is as he wants is not a major piece – nor that he tried to leave DR to got to join CW last year………..
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all this does is confirm that JT is a toadying journalist who will print whatever is handed to him by a club (Murray did it, CG did it, CW did it – i wouldn’t be surprised if he did it with Celtic and the SFA/SPL and/or Players and their agents)
Lazy journalism, reprinting press releases
of course, the flip side to this toadying is that occasionally he has to have a pop – nothing too serious, but enough to show he is impartial when needed
The records sales are falling through the floor, print media is dying and he is ill equipped to reinvent himself in the modern media world, so what to do, what to do? simples, take a nice wee pension as an attack dog for CW/CG at Sevco
I’d actually be surprised if he knows where ANY skeletons are buried – given his ability as a “journalist” and i think CG may realise he’s hired a pup who is all bark and no bite.
Sure, he’ll know how the press works and he’ll suggest ways of managing them – but as we’ve seen so far, he isn’t that good at it. Should have just paid Jack more!
So, what is the story here? JT was a lickspittle printing whatever the owner of Rangers/Sevco ask?
What is his job now? ensuring Keith Jackson and other lickspittle, lazy journalists write whatever the Sevco owner asks.
Sorry, i’m not overly excited by this – it certinaly won’t bring sevco down, just embarass the fat man.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:15
7 3 Rate This
scottc says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:05
0 0 Rate This
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-rack/4144
==================================
is that it? FFS!
————-
Confirms what everyone either suspected or knew. Not exactly earth-shattering news, but an insight. Maybe most of interest is that CW is careful to keep records of all his dealings, whether on tape or in print, and is willing to share them with certain jounos. At least I take it he’s the one talking?
So, Chick Young to be revealed as a closet bluenose the morra? 😀
beatipacificiscotia says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:36
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Exactly. However, in the grand old tradition of ‘shoot the messenger’, Bears will pile on Twitter and abuse Alex T, rather than think about the ramifications of being fed bull from Traynor, who was colluding with the bold Craigy Whyte to mislead them. And now he’s working for CG the saviour and doing the same?
Nope, Alex T must be a Shellic fan and totally biased and everyone hates us but we don’t care.
Let ’em die.
Thompson’s piece just proves what everyone here has long suspected. What is interesting is that Whyte is clearly leaking stuff to Thompson. Whyte has a lot more tales to tell, I’m sure of that, let’s hope the canary keeps singing. Does this indicate a major fall-out between Green and Whyte? Maybe Green should have paid the million and let Whyte have his 6 seats!
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:15
is that it? FFS!
========================
The head sports writer at a major tabloid was having the subject of a news story proof read his “article” and making amendments he requested. That’s at best a press release and that’s being generous.
He was also trying to get a job working for the same person and texting him to that effect.
Don’t you think that raises very serious questions about the reporter’s integrity and imparitality. Particularly when the piece was basically propaganda, intended to mislead the fans, and the same business was subsequently liquidated. Rangers’ fans should be absolutely furious about this.
Place that in the context that that man is now working for the new version of that business.
I find the whole thing quite extraordinary.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:39
all this does is confirm that JT is a toadying journalist who will print whatever is handed to him by a club (Murray did it, CG did it, CW did it – i wouldn’t be surprised if he did it with Celtic and the SFA/SPL and/or Players and their agents)
…
Sorry, i’m not overly excited by this – it certinaly won’t bring sevco down, just embarass the fat man.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree wholeheartedly with you, NTHM. Whilst it shall be fun to watch JT squirming it’s not really going to advance the ‘story’ any. At most he might have to give up the job, but I don’t think even that will happen. It’s not earth shattering, or even Sevco shattering.
Are we also to believe that he was doing these articles out the goodness of his heart?
What about his company skoosh that was set up at the same time murray set up the EBT scheme,which invoiced others for services rendered,what services?
bogsdollox says:
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 at 16:39
1 0 Rate This
I don’t know what is worser, a spiv or a grass. Any of youse know?
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Doesn’t the grass always appear to be Greener?
Traynor’s appointment divided Gers fans. This apparent proof that Traynor was cosying up to the most despised man around Ibrox – Whyte – having previously been a lapdog for Murray, whom a good number blame for most of their troubles, must unsettle those fans not well disposed to him. Coupled with unease around Green from sections of the support and you have a troublesome mix of emotions no matter what public face is put on.
We often talk of transparency on this site. Looks like Gers fans have had some today and it will be interesting to see where this goes.