The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
Yes, yes, yes, no point made, yes, yes.
I say it as I see it, do you?
I don’t think this forum is the place to defend NL’s w/e comments.
The comments delivered towards Goodwin (for a tackle deemed fair by the Officials) were obscene.
Were obviously heard by the nearby fourth official as well as the families in earshot and the millions on Sky.
Neither a good advert for the game nor a good reflection on the man himself.
I would agree though that, normally, the Big Team could get away with that.
Can i point out that i have not defended him. I am assuming you are pointing that at someone else.
tomtomaswell:
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia):
Humble Pie:
“But it’s not always been as easy trying to persuade players from the Emerald Isle to make the switch to Rangers – though not for the lack of trying on the part of the Ibrox club”
—————————————————————————-
This is just a variation on the theme from many Sevco fans that it is in fact the Irish players themselves who are the bigots and not their club.
=========================
I’m sure the KKK made the ridiculous claim some time ago that they would welcome any black person that wanted to join them.
—————————————————————————-
Humble: I give you: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250949/BNP-votes-allow-non-whites-join-party.html
Also to Scotch this myth, so to speak, that OldGers had been trying to sign players from the romanticaly named “Emerald Isle”*; if so, I am sure we’d have heard of them being linked to such players, as we heard them linked to many players which they didn’t sign, though not for lack of trying. eg.
“Brazilian superstar Ronaldo has confirmed for the first time that he was made a golden offer to sign for Rangers. Ronaldo – crowned the greatest player in the world – was almost lured to Scotland last summer in a multi-million pound deal.”
or
“Speculation suggests that Rangers boss Alex McLeish is aiming to strike a deal to take Messi to Ibrox on a season-long loan. The capture of such a mercurial young talent would be a major coup for The Gers but it remains to be seen if McLeish can tempt the attacker to the SPL.”
* BTW at the risk of going all geographic on yo’ ass…. surely the whole island of Ireland is in fact The Emerald Isle? North & Republic?
fishnish says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 15:11
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I don’t think this forum is the place to defend NL’s w/e comments.
The comments delivered towards Goodwin (for a tackle deemed fair by the Officials) were obscene.
Were obviously heard by the nearby fourth official as well as the families in earshot and the millions on Sky.
Neither a good advert for the game nor a good reflection on the man himself.
I would agree though that, normally, the Big Team could get away with that.
==================
You firstly state that this is not the forum to defend NL’s comments then you go on to castigate him for them. Make up your mind.
As for the tackle that was deemed fair by the officials. Looking at the tackle I don’t think many would deem it fair. Just another mistake by the God awful referee Madden. I understand he has been demoted to the 2nd Division this week.
Manager Ally McCoist joked that he could hear what the fans thought of his tictacs but he can’t play 4-4-2 with one striker. I never heard them, maybe there was no mic where the song was sung or in the area of the person it was directed at, maybe its because there has been almost no loud singing to be heard in these quaint wee grounds since Berwick. maybe the microphones have been placed away from any areas which may result in TV companies getting another brasser. So dont start on me, with the favourite hate subject, or trying to make me look gullible as if I believe Sky are in the masonic business and not the entertainment business.
My apologies.
I can’t do Old Firm sophistry.
I thought the comments above mine WERE defending NL’s swearing.
I hadn’t realised it was about paranoia.
Also, I agree Madden didn’t have a great game. St Mirren fans believe he also failed them.
However, he is not being demoted, I suspect. More a reflection on the fact that he’s off to Turkey for tomorrow night’s Europa League tie with Fenerbahce playing Lazio.
Perhaps just as the 4th official, but a tiring old trip, noneltheless.
Tackle looked fine to me, the ball travelling a fair distance in the opposite direction. Much as I thoroughly dislike McCoist, I doubt he would ever behave in the manner Lennon does. Snidey wee comments in lugholes notwithstanding!
bobferris70 says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 16:15
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Tackle looked fine to me, the ball travelling a fair distance in the opposite direction. Much as I thoroughly dislike McCoist, I doubt he would ever behave in the manner Lennon does. Snidey wee comments in lugholes notwithstanding!
=======================================================================
Bob, I used to think that too and felt that Neil Lennon shouldn’t have fallen for the word in the ear but some of Ally McCoist’s actions in the past year have betrayed a different character. The dog-whistling re. the tribunal, the ‘we were shafted and we’ll get them back’ mantra, the ‘Scotland’s shite because there are no 3rd Division players in the team’ nonsense all add up the wee cheeky chap not being quite so appealing.
Managers swear ! Hardly a revelation to anyone who has seen the Walter Smith/Archie Knox filleting of Chic Young
TV evidence was not allowed to be used to ensure Hibs were awarded the goal which would have beaten Hearts , and in all probability given them a decent shot at top 6
TV evidence was not available for St Mirren when Samaras handled on Sunday or for Celtic when Goncalves conned an inept referee into awarding a penalty in the same game.
Does anyone really believe that Lennon is the first manager to swear at an opposing player. Are we now at the mercy of a TV Producer ? Box Office managers get the mics switched up, but the less marketable, or the chosen few, have no mics pointed in their direction
There are players who have led an incredibly charmed life , not to be cited based on TV evidence. Lee McCulloch being the most obvious example. It is no exaggeration to suggest there are more games he cold be cited in than games he couldn’t
Scott Brown has been a lucky bhoy a couple of times and Keith Lasley has got away with a couple of nasty challenges
Conversely Leigh Griffiths and Kenny Shiels , along with Neil Lennon and Derek Adams all seem to be permanently in Vincent Lunny’s crosshairs.
The case of Griffiths is particularly apposite.
Hibs played Rangers on December 10th 2011. By December 13th 2011 Griffiths had been charged , found guilty and banned for giving the finger to Rangers fans who were abusing him
3 days , to view and review the incident, to decide there was a case to answer, to issue a verdict and a punishment.
When it suits the SFA they can move very quickly, when it doesn’t , as with McCulloch and Rangers fans sectarian chanting at Berwick, they appear to be accountable to no-one
Blu, I’m talking about conduct on the touchline. For all his faults, McCoist behaves well during matches. Contrast that with Lennon kicking water bottles, his swearing on Saturday and his general snarling demeanour. I wouldn’t want someone like that managing my team.
barcabhoy says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 16:37
Managers swear ! Hardly a revelation to anyone who has seen the Walter Smith/Archie Knox filleting of Chic Young
TV evidence was not available for St Mirren when Samaras handled on Sunday or for Celtic when Goncalves conned an inept referee into awarding a penalty in the same game.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………..
I agree. Though you are wrong about Goncalves. He had been notified by the authorities before Lennon was. If he accepts a fine it will be done. If not, there’s a chance of a two game ban for something that, if the ref had caught it, merited a mere yellow card. Unfair, but I just didn’t think this was the forum for that minor run of the mill footballing incident to be picked apart.
I guess what I was reacting against was the use of this forum to wearisomely assume that the system is wholly against Celtic, its staff and fans.
I’d also posted nothing about the Samaras incident. I’d not mentioned Izaguirre(?) shoving Paul Dummett into the Celtic goalie and the ensuing goal being chalked off due to the Saints player apparently being to blame.
In the past, I never mentioned Nakamura diving on here. I said not a word about Vinegar van(?) fouling Will Haining and him getting a red card. I omitted to say a word about Boruc trying to decapitate Dargo and getting a yellow for that stopping of a goal….
Swearing has certainly happened previously in football and doubtless will do so again. But I genuinely don’t believe the microphones were set up to trap the Celtic manager.
I wish Celtic fans would stop using this forum for things that I understand they feel passionately about, but which may not be so vital in the bigger picture of the current chaos of Scottish fitba.
The wee diddy teams are not so convinced as you are that the odds are stacked against YOU. And if you genuinely want this forum to be representative of us all, then please… keep your hobby horses for riding in a different field…
It’s honesly tedious to read.
Mibbe as tedious as my posts…
bobferris70 says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 16:58
Where do i begin?
So, you don’t like Neil Lennon then…
Would you be ruling out Sir Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourhino, Harry Redknapp,Roberto Mancini and so on and so forth from managing your team?
Find me a manager who does not use foul and abusive language and i can assure you that person will be a member of a very small and exclusive club…
But, well, you know what i mean, that Neil Lennon…you know what he’s like!
By the way i do hope you check out Sir Walter of Cardigan totally humiliating Chick Young on youtube…
now THAT is behaving badly…
‘honesTly’, of course….
Bob, pay attention.
Neil Lennon is a squeaky clean, super chap. He’s allowed to insult whoever he wants, snarl at whoever he wants, kick whatever bottles he wants and we won’t have a word said against him. Because he’s a lovely bloke and the upholder of morality and decency in Scottish fitba.
Mr McCoist, on the other hand, is a fat, useless manager of a team that only started out a few months ago. He should be regularly mocked and laughed out of town.
That should get us back on the right track. 🙂
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, April 2, 2013 at 22:25
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jimlarkin says:
Tuesday, April 2, 2013 at 22:21
——————————————
Well the contradicts Rangers recent statement that they did not sign the 5 way agreement… thus, no agreement.
How difficult is it to find one, just one single journo in Scotland willing to ask about this 5 way agreement and get the facts behind it.
Just one?
=====================================================================
mr cosgrove, if you’re reading this
…do you have the balls to take this issue up for the sake of scottish football
If Neil Lennon* has broken the rules then the footballing authorities are quite right to give him a fair hearing and if he is found to have done something wrong to punish him accordingly. If he is found to have done nothing wrong then the authorities should announce that and clear him of any charges against him.
As ever it boils down to one thing. So long as everyone is treated the same way, and the rules are applied consistently then no-one, whatever replica kit they choose to buy, should have any complaint. That is all anyone can reasonable expect, and we should accept no less.
*Substitute the name of any other football manager, player or club official and the same should apply.
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 17:25
6 2 Rate This
Bob, pay attention.
Neil Lennon is a squeaky clean, super chap. He’s allowed to insult whoever he wants, snarl at whoever he wants, kick whatever bottles he wants and we won’t have a word said against him.
Because he’s a lovely bloke and the upholder of morality and
decency in Scottish fitba.
Mr McCoist, on the other hand, is a fat, useless manager of a team that only started out a few months ago. He should be regularly mocked and laughed out of town.
That should get us back on the right track.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spot on.
Except the bit about McCoist being a manager, obviously!
Just noticed an interesting point.
The SFA is now publicising its ‘Fans Survey’ results. I chose not to participate as it seemed like a feeble, very late attempt by the SFA to appear concerned about the fans’ opinions – and the questions where quite restricted.
Anyway, this SFA national survey had 7K respondents.
Last year we had the ‘SPL Survey’ organised by the fans, for the fans, and the number of respondents was 17K.
IIRC, despite this sizeable sample size, the SFA declined to comment.
In the end there was a clandestine meeting between the Survey organisers and Doncaster – with the content of that meeting being kept confidential !
======================================================
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/304809-fans-threaten-spl-boycott-if-rangers-newco-is-given-free-pass-into-league/
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/crowd-has-roared-but-will-officials-be-swayed-by-them.20587010
Ah yes, McCoist gets a hard time of it. Who go punished at this game? And who got let off?
http://i2.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article918792.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/old-firm-image-3-
Evening all.
Interestingly here is Jim Goodwin’s take on the events of Sunday and the comments made between himself and Neil Lennon.
I wonder if he too will be charged with some kind of offense?
The case of Derek Adams remains, for me, one of the all time great unexplained mysteries of the SFA disciplinary procedures.
However, before we get to that let’s just remind ourselves of the fact that Kenny Shields of Kilmarnock remains absolutely adamant that an SFA official fabricated a story and evidence to get him into trouble and face an appearance before the disciplinary tribunal.
Eventually, this version of events was rejected and a great cry went out as to why any official should do such a thing?
So remember that when you consider the following:
Dougie McDonald openly fabricated a version of events that suited his purpose at Dundee United. The SFA were happy to leave him in situ.
Derek Adams was charged with swearing whilst assistant manager of Hibs– and interesting charge as Adams– for personal and moral reasons– does not use swear words.
When the case came before the tribunal– despite there being a written report— The official concerned apparently could not remember what Adams said or if he had said anything at all?
Perhaps it was because Hibs were ready to produce numerous witnesses to say that the official report was completely innaccurate– and so in the absence of the official speaking up we never got to the part where we compare one officials word against numerous witnesses who were prepared to say that the official was wholly wrong– and of course that avoided any examination of how or why an official could be so wrong.
But hey– the official is still in place.
Or what about the time Adams was sent off for certain conduct and in cross examination the official concerned openly stated that out of all the people involved in managing Scottish Football Clubs the only person he would have sent off for this conduct was….. Derek Adams.
If anyone else had acted in exactly the same way– they would not have been sent off– it was just the personal dislike of Adams that lead to the sending off.
The official, and his judgement, are still employed by the SFA.
So– why is Neil Lennon being charged with this offence? Because he swore? Because he swore within earshot of the TV cameras? Because he swore at a player?
As i said above– the player took no offence and openly admitted that his own reply was unrepeatable apparently.
Can we now expect every player or manager who uses any type of profanity or insult to appear before the disciplinary committee?
If so– that will be an interesting development, especially as Lennon has been reported for repeatedly using offensive language— repeatedly?
Bob– why stop at Lennon? Are there any other torn faced managers you would be unhappy to see managing your team? Jim Mclean. Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Archie Knox, Walter Smith– could hardly be classed as candidates for Mr Placid Coupon.
Mourinho is a regular water bottle kicker– so presumably he is out as well.
What about players like Dave McKay or Billy Bremner or Kevin Keegin etc– presumably you wouldn’t want them in the team because they are none too photogenic in a pugilistic situation at times?
Personally I would have signed up for any of these individuals in an instant– but that is just my view.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BG7rUgfCQAArRsM.png:large
Angus much as you would like us to believe that your a fair minded individual from the old firm neutral area of Scotland you just can’t hide what would appear to be a very personal dislike of Neil Lennon for whatever reason.
abigboydiditandranaway says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 17:20
…………………………..
Derek Adams…who is a self confessed non swearer…one of the few…
As to the mic catching NL…nope not permitted in convicting a player or a manager…the only people who can convict a player or manager is a match official based on what they report as being heard or seen..
So I would say it was the fourth official who has reported NL…which if it was…why was NL not ordered to the stand?
I have experienced some real a/holes in my experience in professional football here in England…some of the worst managers I have come across have been Scots…and some of the best Scots…
The bottom line….in the heat of battle..people can and do behave out of character…it’s the nature of football…on most occasions regardless of what has taken place we can generally shake hands and have a beer after the game..
NL is no better or worse than most you will meet in professional football…
barcabhoy says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 16:37
When it suits the SFA they can move very quickly, when it doesn’t , as with McCulloch and Rangers fans sectarian chanting at Berwick, they appear to be accountable to no-one.
…………………………………………………..
Ps. still waiting on the SFA asking Charlie to explain his public comment accusing the SFA of being corrupt!
when is the “compromised one” up for re-election?…wee flying kicks…hahaha…they really are as stupid as they come….time to muck oot the byre…braw!
paulmac2 says:
…the only people who can convict a player or manager is a match official based on what they report as being heard or seen..
——————————————-
You’re forgetting about the “member of the public” watching TV. He now has a role to play when the match officials don’t spot things. Who is this person? We have a right to know.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 18:40
paulmac2 says:
…the only people who can convict a player or manager is a match official based on what they report as being heard or seen..
——————————————-
You’re forgetting about the “member of the public” watching TV. He now has a role to play when the match officials don’t spot things. Who is this person? We have a right to know.
………………………………………..
I should have added the Polis…who for some reason are more enthusiastic in Scotland at professional football!
Off topic but of interest to Scottish clubs in terms of EPL wages.
Auldheid@Auldheid40s
The final score on football law
http://www.danielgeey.com/one-small-step-for-the-premier-league-one-giant-leap-for-financial-prudence
EPL have voted for their own FFP version. About time.
paulmac2 says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 18:47
Are you suggesting the polis actually observe anything at football matches, like offensive chanting or things like that?
chipm0nk says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 17:40
In terms of equal treatment ’m sure (no I’m not I’m being sarcastic really) that the SFA will allow Neil Lennon to bring Goodwin along to provide testimony on his behalf just like Diouf and Bougerrha were able to call on Calum Murray to speak on their behalf.
Jim Goodwin
https://twitter.com/PJMcBrideCFC/status/319454160208674816/photo/1
paulmac2 , FA , Mr Lunny would appear to react and only react when the “member of the public” phones re incidents , are we then so supposed to believe that there was no action taken re the singalongasash at Berwick and McCulloch’s simulation and attempted elbow of the Stirling Albion player at Ibrox because not one person contacted the SFA “hoopline” to complain .
May I suggest that instead of contacting FIFA for FairPlay in our own fair midden of Scottish football, we start to “police ” ourselves and use the blog to highlight these incidents to the likes of Lunny, after all justice is apparently only a phone call away.
In the interests. Of fairness I would point out that in the ” Dingwall derbies” recently both managers Butcher and Adams were involved in fairly unsavoury incidents according to the press during the first game and at the conclusion of the second match, I may have missed it in the press or on the TV but didn’t see either being summoned to ” cowards castle” to answer for their actions now if that had been a wee red haired man managing in the east end of Glasgow I wonder.
Sandaza SACKED! Unsurpassed dignity.
Artificial_Life 13 @LWordsmith 3m
Sandaza Sacked.
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HUGH KEEVINS PAVES THE WAY FOR SEVCO TO JOIN 2ND TIER OF SCOTTISH FOOTBALL VIA CRITERIA RATHER THAN SPORTING MERIT
—————————————————–
It had to happen sooner or later but tonight Hugh Keevins on SSB says that the ideal model of the top two tiers of Scottish football would include a criteria that does not involve sporting merit. Instead he suggests that the criteria would be on a “full time status”.
Does anyone know which club could fulfil this criteria but are currently not in the upper leagues?
The succulent lambers must be starving on 3rd division rations. However take note the media game is fully afoot.
Although my headline may seem sensational and only fit for the back page of impartial Scottish red tops I would like to add the following “Hugh Keevins has absolutely no influence in the decision making of Scottish footballing authorities”.
Apparently Sandaza has had his contract terminated by RIFC
spaldingbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 19:16
…Mr Lunny would appear to react and only react when the “member of the public” phones re incidents , are we then so supposed to believe that there was no action taken re the singalongasash at Berwick and McCulloch’s simulation and attempted elbow of the Stirling Albion player at Ibrox because not one person contacted the SFA “hoopline” to complain .
Yes this would seem to be the case. After extended correspondence with Roseanna Cunningham I have been advised, by her, that I need to report the Offensive Chanting at Hampden 29/12/12 to Strathclyde’s finest, even although there were scores of (FoCUS?)Police Officers there to witness it for themselves.
Beggars belief!!
Neil Lennon. I suppose some folk just can’t handle the fact that he has matured into the manager role and has been the epitome of calm for quite some time now.Some folk just yearn for him to be the baddie again.Methinks they are missing something.Top flight football maybe?
aboigboydidit… None of the managers you have named have behaved the way Neil Lennon behaves on the touchline. Ferguson maybe comes closest but then I cannot stand the man. Yes, I’ve seen Smith bully Chick and while I’m no fan of Smith he again conducted himself failry well during matches. I can’t see Billy McNeill kicking water bottles or calling opposing players who have just performed perfectly good tackles, f******s. Can you name me another SPL manager who would do this? Shiels and Butcher can be a bit off the wall and the latter did partly destroy a dugout, not very nice behaviour I admit, but there is something of a nastiness about Lennon that I don’t see in the rest. Just my opinion.
Sandaza needs to get himself a good employment lawyer. There are absolutely no valid grounds for this dismissal. A good lawyer will take TRFC for loads of money on this one. Is Green losing the plot altogether? This really smacks of desperation.
valentinesclown says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 14:16
I am going to repeat my past views and am not sorry to do so.
We as fans have got to challenge the WATP attitude (which emanates not only from Special Conditional Licence Sevco FC and it’s fans but also has branches/roots which are at the heart of the SFA/SPL. Basically this mindset seems to be beating strongly through all the veins of Scottish football and the SMSM is one of its main arteries).
WATP attitude/entity exists as a strong force and the past 18 months have shown how powerful this is. A prime example of this is Mr Campbell Ogilvie still being in his position.
I personally have done all I can so far to challenge this by the only means available to me as I had to as doing nothing was not an option. I am sure other fans have done the same and far more than I have because we care. I have written/emailed the following people and organisations to express my views on various aspects of save the Fabric of Society FC and maintain the WATP attitude that really angers me. Those I have contacted so far:-
SFA, SPL, EUFA, FIFA, Alex Salmond, my local MSP, Celtic FC, HMRC, SFA Survey, Police, Celtic Trust and various online forums, to name but a few.
So far to no avail the club formally known as Rangers seem to have transferred the WATP mantra to the team formed as Special Conditional Licence Sevco FC and they seem to carry the same charmed/favoured life as oldco. The SFA seems to want this mindset and entity to exist at all costs and this has been maintained blatantly at the highest level over the past 18 months.
I have made my views clear that all I want is justice and to have a sport that has sporting integrity at its heart, I want FFP to apply to all clubs and I want a SFA governing body that has no ties to the WATP attitude mantra. I want this simply because I care and I love football.
This is all I can do at the moment but I can do more in the future. What I do depends on a few things such as; if the latest investigation which was the LNS inquiry was so obviously based on one man’s flawed evidence why have NO chairmen from other clubs challenged this verdict? I know through this forum FIFA were informed by bloggers on this matter and has made a response. It least FIFA has been made aware that there is an issue deep within Scottish football. I would like to think that FIFA would take action if Chairmen from all clubs challenged this LNS decision. I feel this issue can only be dealt honestly without fear outside this country (which is a very sad thing to say or admit). If league reconstruction in any way shoehorns WATP poison into SPL 2 then corruption has won.
Neil Doncaster came across IMO very well on Sat on BBC Sportsound and seemed to say that it was 12, 12, and 18 as the way ahead. It may not be perfect but it would ensure Sevco not jumping queues. Graham Speirs actually shamed himself on the same show were as Stuart Cosgrove gave an honest debate and opinion and as such was classed as anti rangers by Speirs. Neil Doncaster even put out a blog recently that had negative undertones for Sevco FC.
I do not know if any thing is being addressed behind the scenes by club chairmen and it is all to do with timing/politics who knows? I am just trying to make sense and find reasons or to try and justify why so far all clubs are in silence in this issue which basically could be the end of Scottish football and that is no exaggeration IMO.
We all know time heals but also time stalls things and at present this suits Sevco and WATP mindset as they must think “so far so good” which bears well in their eyes for the future. We cannot let this feeling of injustice be diluted, we as fans want our game back but not at a price. We must maintain this stance and not allow the MSM to think we will just be like them and roll over. All this time has made me even more determined to seek justice as without it I have no sport.
As mentioned before I have done all I can so far but if it comes to fruition that my club and all the other clubs in our game stay silent then they will have silent stadiums next season as I think fans have really had enough and will stay away from this game in vast numbers. I am waiting to see what transpires before the end of this season before I purchase my season books and I have 4 adult sons who have the same attitude. Football at this moment cannot afford to lose fans at this time, but why should I continue to watch football if I know that it is flawed to benefit one mindset and one team that feeds this poison.
Let time make us stronger, remember last summer how we felt and as a result of this feeling we stood as one and just said NO. This is still our time and No means NO at all times.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have copied all of your post to give what follows a better context for all readers and I apologise to them for length but urge them to stick with it as it is relevant to your point.
It so happens I have made a sort of hobby of the subject of forgiveness. Much of what I found out came from the work of Professor Robert Enright of the International Forgiveness Institute
http://www.internationalforgiveness.com/
to whom I wrote. This is a record and I think it backs up where we now are and why change at the SFA is absolutely essential and why Campbell Ogilvie and others must walk for the good of our game.
Hello Bob
I trust this finds you well.
There is a very interesting scenario in Scottish football which is I believe a reflection of Scottish society as a whole that I wrote to you about previously in truth and reconciliation terms.
Glasgow Rangers went into liquidation, (see Background below) but the football authorities tried to put them straight back into the top tier league, mainly for commercial reasons I suspect, but also as our First Minister said (Rangers) are part of the fabric of Scottish society and draw on the majority of the Scottish population for support. This attempt was stopped because football fans warned their clubs they would walk away if sporting merit/integrity was ignored for commercial reasons and The Rangers were eventually admitted to the bottom tier although rules had to be ignored to do so.
It also turned out that in order to make the tax avoidance/evasion work, that not all documentation was supplied to the football authorities as required in the rules. This was adjudged to be a wrongdoing by a special enquiry led by a judge but a punishment of a fine that most supporters view as inappropriate given the damage to the game’s integrity and the fact it was placed on the liquidated club who cannot pay it, has only fuelled the anger and resentment at what looks like an ongoing cover up of an initial wrong doing by Rangers to become a wrong doing by the football authority itself.
This ongoing resentment and what looks like an ongoing denial of wrong or the seriousness of it is damaging our game and our society and supporters are being urged by the football industry to move on. However I reckon this can only be done properly if the anger and resentment is recognised in order for forgiveness to be applied. I think this acknowledgement is essential because (to quote from what forgiveness is not) the football authorities on whose watch this happened remain in control and are apparently unaware of the strength of feeling against their actions and how mistrusted they have become. However they remain in control of our game and this means that supporters are not protected from similar future hurts by steering away from situations or people who may treat us unfairly and can set us free from an abiding anger and resentment.
Actually we can steer away but that means giving up on a sport that is dear to many of us, so my question is how do we get the message across that until such times as the magnitude and consequences of the wrong are admitted there can be no moving on, no forgiveness?
Would an indemnity against the sporting consequences of admitting wrongdoing change the scene?
Hello, Auldheid. It is great to hear from you.
This sports injustice is quite intense and, yes, in need of a solution.
When you suggest that the wrong first be acknowledged, I think you are more in the realm of justice-seeking than in the realm of forgiveness. And I agree that the admission of wrong would go far in easing the angers fuelled by this controversy.
If wrongdoing can be admitted, this probably would ease the emotional burden of all who have been loyal to this franchise. Forgiveness probably would be easier under this circumstance. Yet, if the apology never comes and if people are still fuming over this, then the practice of forgiveness (without necessarily expecting justice) may be in order. It would at least help reduce the toxic anger than can grip a person.
Take care.
Bob
Many thank Bob. I’ll find ways of getting that message across, although the fear is that an uncontrite institution will continue to act in a wrong manner and those who are on the receiving end have no protection from authority.
It is the need for authority (the SFA) to give assurances that they have learned lessons and are strengthening their processes that is required to stop the forgiving again being trod on (either that or they just walk away).
What a great advert for Sevco – instead of supporting a valued employee – show them the door.
Agents and players are no fools. While there are unsubstantiated rumors that the Club are running short of cash, the actions of firing Sandaza will appear to back up the rumor mill.
I wonder if there will be any market reaction to the rumors of cash flow problems – will we see the share price fall tomorrow?
bobferris70 saays:
might I respecfully suggest that you view Sir Walter of Cardigan’s ahem…”exchange of views” with Mixu Paatelainen on youtube and get back to me?
@ bob ferris
Maybe you would never see Billy McNeill kicking water bottles. But as your eyes are open I suggest that you also take your hands off your ears. Mr McNeill has said in the past that in his opinion Celtic have been the victims of unjust refereeing decisions. Or is this something that a monkey would not want to hear? Maybe covering your mouth once in a while would be quite a good too.
Jean7brodie I can understand your frustration, one can only wonder what our elected representatives are for , another if my head is in the sand it didn’t happen politician. You can however report crime/ incidents such as this via their very own website , just remember to keep a screen print and note the incident number or crime reference number allocated to you for you to chase up later. I don’t know how far it would go re the inquiry, but I would be interested if anyone got back to you re your complaint.
bobferris70…
might I agree with an earlier poster who stated that Neil Lennon is no better nor worse than any other football managers…
you would, if you looked, be able to source dozens of incidents of managers behaving badly in a quick internet trawl…
maybe taking some time to reflect on what it is about Neil Lennon that that so irks you, when others display the same or similar behaviours, would be an illuminating exercise for you?
neepheid says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 19:43
Sandaza needs to get himself a good employment lawyer. There are absolutely no valid grounds for this dismissal. A good lawyer will take TRFC for loads of money on this one. Is Green losing the plot altogether? This really smacks of desperation.
————————————————————————-
I would suggest that Mr Green has filed any future Employment Litigation under Someone else’s Problem.
Let’s see how many this resonates with.
I am not merely ‘a Rangers hater’; I am a Rangers despiser and detester. But I have not always been one.
I can remember enjoying their 3-2 European away win in Eindhoven against PSV in the late 70s. I enjoyed them beating Leeds home and away, seeing it as a Scotland-England battle. And I also wanted them to beat Bayern Munich and thought they played superbly and were hugely unlucky to lose 1-0 in Munich. From memory they hit the woodwork three times in the night that effectively ended Michael Mols’ career, a player who without his injury might, had it continued in a similar vein, have rivalled Larsson.
But it’s been over a decade since I felt this way. I now hate them to an almost pathological degree. Thumbs up if they’ve got worse, thumbs down if I’ve just turned into a sad bitter middle aged old man.
spaldingbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 19:56
Thanks for your reply spaldingbhoy.
I know I can make the complaint as Roseanna Cunningham gave me the details of how to do this. I feel I’m being told that nothing can be done if I don’t make it. This is surely not how the justice system is supposed to work; Police see crime but won’t do anything unless a member of the public complains? Even when the culprit is caught in the act and the whole world sees it?
I have no problem with Neil Lennon being charged for using abusive language yet the player who has admitted using some choice words himself seems to have escaped punishment.
I’ve often seen players dismissed for foul and abusive language yet the man in black also seems to have missed this incident as well.
As has been mentioned before Butcher and Adams have had confrontations at two matches at least this season and yet nothing has been done. This is one of the main problems within Scottish football. The arbitrary charging of certain individuals when there is nothing done about similar, or on the face of it, worse incidents. Kenny Shiels seems to have been particularly badly treated in this respect.
There also seems to be no mechanism for reporting incidents either. The way things currently stand the authorities are doing absolutely nothing to dispel the notion that one club in particular is above the laws of the game and that certain managers within the game can do and say things and get away with them while others are charged with varying degrees of offenses. It is this culture that has to change. This is why this blog was created.
As an aside I see Stuart Dougal has been brought out again to support the referees.He really does seem the go to guy when anyone complains about poor refereeing?
In his article he states that the referee and his assistant were in poor positions so you could understand how they got it wrong. In my mind that actually makes matters worse. So despite being told for years that a referee can only give a penalty if he is one hundred percent sure we have now moved to the point that if the ref isn’t sure, or in the wrong position, he just makes things up.
Surely a referee can only give what he sees?
If he has not seen the incident he cannot give the foul. If his assistant is unsure whether an offence has taken place inside or outside the box then the defence usually gets the benefit of the doubt as has always been. If there is any doubt then the decision is either no foul or a free kick outside the box but in no way can a penalty be given. The incident involving Samaras seems to be even worse where everyone can clearly see what has gone on. Is it really the case that the referees have got in at halftime and someone has told them they made a Horlicks in the first half and that they have attempted to even things up.
However Stuart Dougal’s explanation to me reinforces two things; the first is why I never rated him as a referee and secondly why a lot of fans have no trust in the SFA to fairly govern our sport.
I know I may be treading a fine line talking about a specific decision and I have tried to balance by stating that I thought St. Mirren were due a penalty in the first half however the main thrust of my point is the poor standard of refereeing in Scotland.
If you paid good money to watch a play and one of the main actors continually forgets his lines or says them in tthe wrong order you would be banging on the stage door demanding your money back and yet we, as the paying public, are supposed to just pay up, sit up, and shut up.
“RANGERS announced today that the Club has decided to terminate its contract with Francisco Sandaza. The player has been advised of the situation.
Francisco spoke at length to someone posing as an agent and engaged in a conversation which the Club believes to be a material breach of his contract of employment.
The player was suspended but after careful consideration and a hearing with Francisco and his representatives, the Club, and our advisors, believe that dismissal is the appropriate course of action.
The termination is subject to the right of appeal under SFL rules and there will be no further comment from Rangers on this issue.”
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/3673-club-statement
=====================================================
I believe that deserves a:: Wow Just Wow !
Regardless of whether this was an “appropriate course of action”, it does raise some interesting questions;
– Is McCoist happy about this outcome – and whilst under a transfer embargo ?
– How will the other players react to this apparent ‘heavy handed’ decision.
– If he was sacked, then is Sandaza free to sell his ‘inside’ story about the Govan club ?
– Will any future signing targets – or their agents – be put off by this decision ?
etc…
Phil Mac stirring the pot on Twitter re TRFC financial situ, in a ‘told ya so’ fashion. Expect more departures.
Jean7brodie
Sorry to go on , but I’m curious as to why she wouldn’t progress your complaint did she say why it had to be you that had to report it , was she not one of the MSP’ s involved in bringing in the new football legislation with the so called anti sectarian element .
I think maybe Charlie has been tipped the wink that despite all the promises from his pals in SFA, SFL, and SPL, that the five way agreement will probably fail to deliver again and that there will be no SPL next year.
Our clubs can probably envisage just what the blue club in the SPL would do to season ticket sales and despite the best efforts of Regan, Ogilvy, Doncaster and Longmuir on behalf of the blue club it will still be too big a risk for some of them to take.
And the voting structure means there only needs two clubs to stop it stone dead.
Therefore his monthly losses become unsustainable in the not too far away timescale and financial fun and games (akka cuts) will dominate short term.
It is still fluid though and his first reaction is to come out fighting.
But his paymasters will know when to pull the rug and it is about their bottom line.
Maybe maybe soon find out who really owns the assets.
The next Rangers will not own a football or a training ground and Ticketus will no longer be ticketless!
Who needs to watch soaps on telly.
spaldingbhoy says:
Angus much as you would like us to believe that your a fair minded individual from the old firm neutral area of Scotland you just can’t hide what would appear to be a very personal dislike of Neil Lennon for whatever reason.
———————————————————–
Lennon won’t have many fans outside his own club and that’s a fact for whatever reason.
No parcel bombs or bullets in the post though.
Oh, and this should raise everyone’s spirits – the MBB, the bold Craigy Whyte might be about to reappear:
@Alexhami
I’m hearing that Craig Whyte has sold a story to the Sun rubbishing the Club & making a fair amount of allegations
There are some big distractions being thrown up here and Charlie is heading this up,he was scouting the 2 loan players from Newcastle that where playing for St Mirren on Sunday,expect them as part of the Newcastle partnership to roll into Ibrox in the not too distant future,there will be few others also ,ally will not be involved in this ,in fact it is very likely he will not be involved in anything Sevco related come the start of next season,the swingening cuts are about to kick in and there will be a lot of false promises regards commimg and goings to sell the season books but in reality the end is nigh and the club that kicks off next season will not complete that season,what do you say Charles
spaldingbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 21:06
She replied via my MSP with whom I raised my initial complaint.
She states that, although the Government introduced the legislation, and she includes herself in this, it would be inappropriate for them to comment on, or intervene in, any specific cases.
She then suggests that, if I have any evidence, I should contact Strathclyde Police.
I have replied to her detailing the evidence which, as mentioned previously, has been witnessed by the many Police Officers in attendance and viewed by ‘the whole world’ via You Tube etc.
I am overwhelmed by a sense of anger and despair.
I await her reply but do not expect it to be acceptable or speedy.
neepheid says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 19:43
I feel sorry for Mr Sandaza what was seen as a joke by the individual who made the prank call has cost a man his livelihood. Whether Sevco are correct or not in their actions I know for a fact if I was in Sandaza’s shoes I’d be seriously pissed not just with Sevco but the prank caller.
jean7brodie
I feel your pain, I have written to my msp re this subject and unfortunately still await a reply even? I could hear the Dec 29 chanting coming from hampden in my front garden, they are Scotland’s shame but no-one wants to deal with them, it’s too dangerous 🙁
Brenda says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 21:48
Thanks Brenda.
To an extent I am a coward. I always wonder where my details will go when I complain to ‘the finest’ so for this I apologise. As you say It’s too dangerous.
Shameful state of affairs.
I feel quite sorry for Sandaza and it does not reflect well on TIG- his prank has contributed to a guy losing his livelihood. Note- contributed to, NOT caused.
C Green has seen the opportunity to save on some outlays (despite being cash rich & debt free) by ending Sandaza’s employment, which seems to be a common occurrence down Ibrox way just now.
No doubt Sandaza will challenge this, and no doubt a deal will be struck with some compensation paid. However, I would imagine that any payments are likely to follow after the next tranche of ST money hits the coffers.
I posted a while back that I remember hearing someone on a phone in say that they went to a pre season friendly match where Leicester were the opposition. Within 20 minutes their rugged midfielder had upended a few of the home players, had a number of run-ins with the ref and was mixing it with all and sundry. Without knowing his name, his country of origin or his religion the home fans let the player know he was not liked because he was a niggly wee nyaff.
And that’s Lennon for you. You’d love him on your team but would hate him when in the opposition.
He doesn’t deserve half of the stick or the attention he gets from the authorities but unfortunately he is just one of those people who, for whatever reason, appears to rub people up the wrong way even if he were rescuing a kitten stuck up a tree.
I know its not right but I am afraid that just one of those things, in the same way there are are so hole charmers who almost get away with murder because of some unseen aura that makes most people like them.
Maybe Lennon needs to change to Lynx body spray or something?
bobferris70 says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 19:42
there is something of a nastiness about Lennon that I don’t see in the rest. Just my opinion.
====================================================
Indeed Bob. The ‘nastiness’ you refer to in Neil Lennon is so bad that a large swathe of the Scottish footballing public and indeed some of the media held the man in contempt from the day he joined the Scottish game. What could this man have done to such a large group of people who knew very little of him but disliked him instantly?
People do see what they want to see mind you. There is still a notion among many in Scotland that any Manager or Director of Rangers must be regarded at all times as a man of dignity and honour. Celtic people on the other hand must be regarded with suspicion at best, or held in utter contempt at worst.
Thankfully Lennon probably doesn’t care what you or so many others think of him. After all, liking the man was never ever an option was it?
upthehoops says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 22:08
Spot on. Wonder what that ‘something’ is that causes this dislike!!
Rumour is the Sun won’t be running Whyte tomorrow in the paper they have dropped it
He’s no Craig Brown in the diplomatic stakes that’s all I’ll say(not saying that’s a bad thing either)
wottpi says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 22:08
I watched Lennon on TV and asked my daughter who the wee blonde nyaff (same word) in mid field was.
“Why” she asked? ” I’d love him at Celtic, he is just what we need” I replied.
Evening Brenda, jean7brodie, thanks for that, so by that logic if she was involved in drafting say drug legislation and you took the time to write to her pointing out offenders and large scale drug abuse in a certain area she thereafter couldn’t or wouldn’t get involved by passing said information to the police because it would be inappropriate I’m sorry not buying that. Billshut.
Fortunately the TRFC fans are only ever 90 mins away from embarrassing this “”the greatest wee banana republic in the world ” on national TV they just can’t help themselves and eventually they their fans, of their club/company will have to answer for their actions and the authorities both football and civil will need to act.
Need to check a few things re reporting of these incidents will update you later.
liveinhop says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 22:16
Rumour is the Sun won’t be running Whyte tomorrow in the paper they have dropped it
=====================================================================
If true, then can we expect an ‘Exclusive’ about TRFC in the Sun instead ?
The whole thing with Lennon is a bit of a nonsense. Football has always had its pantomome villians.
If he had kicked with the other foot and been a player and manager at Ibrox, those with Green tinted spectacles would have given him pelters and they know it.
http://www.themartineffect.co.uk/football-articles-graham-souness.htm
Substitute Lennon for Souness in parts of the article and you’ll get my drift
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, April 2, 2013 at 20:27
42 0 Rate This
… the 500k is against the “club” called Rangers…..so we’ll soon find out if it is indeed the same club or if The rangers is infact a different club.
———
Was listening to a discussion about this on the wireless tonight. Haven’t the SPL been rather clever here? If LNS follows his own logic he’ll send his bill to oldco, and get nowt. If he sends it to newco his conclusions will look rather suspect.
If they have dismissed Sandaza…for an alleged breach of contract…then as a free agent I hope an SPL club sign him…
Although I doubt his breach of contract was so serious it warranted dismissal….smells of desperate expenditure reduction
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 22:19
Indeed.
As you imply every team needs someone who is not only blessed with good footballing skills but can get right intae them at the same time. You may not even like him but you are sure glad he is on your side.
Some one who riles the opposition, someone who winds them up so tight they loose concentration and make mistakes.
Best, Johnstone and the like did it with exceptional skills, Lennon, Souness Roy Keane and the like just had solid skills but also something in them that other people don’t like. A drive to win, a hardness that others possibly find intimidating because they realize their own weaknesses.
I understand from comments on here and elsewhere that in private Lennon is a lovely chap and I have no reason not to believe that is true.
The same way that friends I know who have been in the company of Campbell Ogilvie say he is a decent a bloke as you could meet and comes across full of honesty and integrity.
However I have no doubt that some of those defending Lennon will have CO marked up as the devil incarnate.
It really is one for Frasier Crane.
PS for whats it is worth I believe Lennon to have been a good honest pro and is now a good prospect as a manager. Ogilive may indeed be a decent bloke but I think he has been found out as not being up to the job.