The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
I suspect all that we can really take out if the ongoing circus at Ibrox is that they continue to be run by businessmen with no moral compass and a track record of failure , as they chase a fast buck.
It seems almost inevitable that Rangers will face another administration being run by these rogues , the only question is the timing.
I would expect the SFA to do nothing in terms of license inspection or fit and proper person, they will sit tight hoping something turns up ( similar to Govt economic strategy), our leaders are mere spectators in this car crash.
More worrying for the Rangers supporters , they collectively appear incapable of shaking themselves free of these dubious business characters, their representatives appear to be blunt a bit thick and not well endowned with cash. They lack a leader.
Still there best route forward is a fan owned club , however I suspect that they need to wipe the slate clean re their attitudes and history and start again , to facilitate this process.
The SPL may force the issue with very strict financial criteria and reporting requirements on clubs , which force Rangers to cut their cloth as they trudge through the lower leagues, in the expectation of being promoted to th SPL at some point.
There is no upside in any of this for Rangers, continual decline for at least decade would be my view, which makes them progressively irrelevant and their chances therefore diminish by the day of being rescued by a wealthy Messiah.
The OF model is broken and the re-organisation needs to accept this principle and move on appropriately.
Nice day for a game.
I copied the following definition from the Scottish Govt own website re definition of crimes
Fraud
Source: Common Law
There is no succinct definition to embrace all the criminal forms of cheating. However, if the following three elements are present in a cheat the crime of fraud is complete.
Falsehood
False representations by words, or writing or conduct.
Fraud
Intention to deceive or defraud
Wilful Imposition
The cheat designed has been successful to extent of gaining benefit or advantage, or of prejudicing or tending to prejudice the interests of another person.
A few boxes ticked there then.
Oh dear
It looks like we have a unclear situation here, lets sort this ,we change the first two letters around around and make it nuclear,there its arrived at last.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/13/rangers-charles-green-craig-whyte
Sunday 13 May 2012
Rangers’ consortium leader Charles Green denies links to Craig Whyte
• Green says he met Whyte for the first time last week
Charles Green, the man in charge of the consortium poised to take over Rangers, has denied any business link to the club’s former owner Craig Whyte.
A report on Saturday morning claimed that one of Green’s companies completed a £30m deal with Close Brothers 12 years ago. Whyte, under whose ownership Rangers plunged into administration, sold off future catering revenues at Ibrox to Close Brothers during his ill-fated reign.
Green confirmed he had given Whyte £1 – the same value paid – for his 85% stake in Rangers, and said: “I gave him a pound out of my own pocket too, so he has made a 100% profit.”
On any suggestion of a previous connection, Green said: “It was complete rubbish. I met Craig Whyte for the very first time a week last Tuesday in London.”
…
spaldingbhoy says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 10:58
Common law fraud in Scotland is generally taken to require a victim, a deception and a tangible benefit for the fraudster.
Charles Green has basically stated that he deceived Craig Whyte in order to gain control of certain assets. Which would seem to fit the bill. However, I think it would also have to be shown that Craig Whyte actually lost out. Given that he himself was trying to get control of assets from a business which he was (or had been) the owner of, for a substantially reduced amount when that business was liquidated may complicate things.
I really don’t think either one of them would want to go down this route.
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 11:49
On any suggestion of a previous connection, Green said: “It was complete rubbish. I met Craig Whyte for the very first time a week last Tuesday in London.”
———————————————————————————————————
Ah but you have to remember that Green is a salesman of a certain oil which is known to be sipped by serpents. However, he may well be telling the truth when he says he only met for the first time – but how many phone calls were there, emails, texts, communications through lawyers or other agents.
It is always worth examining Green’s words carefully as often the most interesting bits are what he doesn’t say but he has a weakness in always providing a clue as to how clever he is. I have previously watched many other butterflies of the same ilk who always try to see how close they can fly to the candle. In the end they all crash and burn.
From Dave Bassett, manager of Sheffield Utd under Green (briefly!)
“Rangers is a business. It could be Barratt Homes or Scottish Power. Charlie’s not in love with the product.
“I’ve said before how he said to me if he could make more money turning Bramall Lane into a potato field then he’d do it.”
Now there’s something for the bears to think about. Although thinking seems to be a problem for most of them. They actually believe that Green is a newly anointed “Rangers man” who has the club’s best interests at heart. No laughing at the back, please.
This must be reaching the end game now. The football and prosecuting authorities have what appears to be clear evidence of fraud. Surely they cannot simply ignore it? Hang on, this is Scotland, I forgot, but even so, Green must have gone too far this time.
My advice to Green would be to cash in now for whatever he can get and remove himself from the jurisdiction urgently. Surely his lawyers are pointing out to him that he has allowed what amounts to a confession to be printed on the front page of a national newspaper? BDO must surely be in contact with the Serious Fraud Office regarding Green, Whyte and D&P? As a concerned and responsible citizen, I’m contacting the SFO myself, just in case.
If these shenanigans are ignored by the justice system, then the term banana republic doesn’t get close to an accurate description of the state of our nation. In fact every country that grows bananas would be entitled to feel grossly offended.
Possible fund raiser…
Green v Whyte in the Albion Car Park?
I’ll have a couple of ticket(u)s for that one!
ecobhoy says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 12:00
Economical with the truth as they say.
It’s almost as if a PR expert is writing his statements, and whilst the words aren’t strictly speaking untrue they are carefully designed to create a specific impression.
For example “Craig Whyte owns no part of Rangers FC Ltd” would be absolutely true, as it is wholly owned by Rangers International FC PLC. However that is not what Craig Whyte actually claims.
Smoke and, as they say, mirrors.
Barcabhoy is correct. If Green is saying that he resigned as a director of Sevco 5088, then he is lying.
Green was still a director on the 27th of December 2012.
neepheid says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 12:05
From Dave Bassett, manager of Sheffield Utd under Green (briefly!)
“Rangers is a business. It could be Barratt Homes or Scottish Power. Charlie’s not in love with the product.
“I’ve said before how he said to me if he could make more money turning Bramall Lane into a potato field then he’d do it.”
——————————————————————–
Maybe CG used the very same line to Bomber Brown about Ibrox? Maybe that’s what he didn’t want to reveal CG had said to him?
Everything that Green has stated must be scrutinised because there are many important anomalies. Let’s forget, for the moment, any dealings with Whyte and look back a bit at Green’s publicly declared explanation of how he became involved with Rangers.
When questioned about reports of previous links between himself and Craig Whyte, Mr Green dismissed them as ‘complete rubbish’ and stated he had met Craig Whyte ‘for the very first time’ on 1 May 2012 in London.
The emergence of the Sevco bid so late in the day was questioned by the Blue Knights bidding consortium but Green claimed a Singaporean family interested in investing contacted him on February 15, the day after Rangers went into administration. So which story is correct? And are we about to see another Alzheimer Defence should the issue end up in court?
The other Green explanation is that Ahmad came to him in February 2012 asking him to become involved in Rangers because Zeus was thinking of putting a deal together. Green said he refused the approach but Ahmad came back to him and they started working on putting a deal together.
Interestingly he also, while sticking to his story about meeting CW on 1/05/2012, announced that Imram Ahmad, his fellow Rangers director, had ‘loads of meetings’ with Craig Whyte. We don’t have the dates or what was discussed but I would have thought that their seemingly shared Russian interests would not have required ‘loads of meetings’.
Before the anomalies in the public statements against known facts have always interested me but now the stench is becoming overpowering. One semi-competent investigative journo could blow the lid right of this with little effort as most of it lies in plain sight.
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/408728/Prospectus-pdf.html
The link above is for the Sevco share prospectus.
“Page 77 makes for an especially boring read. It is just some legal boilerplate about surveys and asset valuations. Tedious stuff from DM Hall the surveyors who have performed Deadco-Sevco valuations so diligently over the last decade. Can anyone find the interesting bit in this paragraph? 😀
Tenure/Title Deeds and Leases
We have not had the opportunity of inspecting the Title Deeds of the subjects under valuation and, for the purposes of our valuation, we have assumed that the subjects are held under Title which is the equivalent of Heritable Ownership (formerly Feudal) unless otherwise stated as being subject to a Lease. We have further assumed that the properties are free from encumbrances, restrictions or outgoings of an onerous nature which would have a material impact on the value.”
neepheid says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 12:05
If these shenanigans are ignored by the justice system, then the term banana republic doesn’t get close to an accurate description of the state of our nation. In fact every country that grows bananas would be entitled to feel grossly offended.
————————————————————————————————————-
Funny to think that many years ago I thought I’d never see another banana boat sail up the Clyde and we end up with a load of green ones offloading at Ibrox.
There is an awfull lot of pork in the pies these two sell ,an awfull lot.
BBC Sportsound – Chris Mclaughlin on at the moment – some evidence to support Craig Whyte’s claims, recordings and texts.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/the-many-mysteries-of-the-rangers-fc-shareholding-by-ecojon/
– – – – – – – – –
apologise if posted before
Stuart Gilmour now being quoted that he will vote against the 12-12-18.
Roy MacGregor also is against it, but at least he’s had that position since day one. Gilmour however only takes his stand after Chico pays him a visit, oddly enough. I
s this the same Stuart Gilmour who chased one of his own directors out of Paisley for attempting to do a deal with a potential Sevco director?
jimlarkin says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 14:25
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No worries Jim.
Tom English just quoted it, chapter and verse, on Radio Shortbread not five minutes ago. 🙂
Ok.Here’s how it goes journo’s ,try this out.
Journo -Charles is there any truth in what Mr Whyte is saying about the deal that was done for Sevco involving yourself and Imran ,any truth at all.
Charles-Ehhhhhhh
Journo-A yes or no will do
Charles- Ehhhhhhhhhh
Journo -If you cant give us a no we will print a yes,what do you say
Charles-Ehhhhhhhhhh
Journo- Ok its a yes
The St Mirren fans, like most fans, are against 12-12-18 so let’s not all get paranoid about this. I am relieved as the 8-8-8 split was a huge farce waiting to happen. The First clubs might get more money conceded from the SPL but it is surely likely that the top four of the eight come the seasons end would, more often than not, be the four SPL clubs who dropped down. The main problem with the First is that second place is meaningless. There isn’t a lot wrong with the two lower leagues.
bobferris70 says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 15:08
~~~~~~
Quite right Bob. I also don’t understand the SPL position that they know the game is broken and that there is a need for change, but unless the clubs take what is on offer right now, then they will carry on with the broken model. From a business perspective, if there is an agreed need for change now, then that need will still remain if nothing is done.
If change for next season is being stopped then good. Once again, teams need to know what they are playing for from the start of the season. Changing that during the season is just wrong.
Make changes, sure, but with a clear season before they come in. That allows people to plan properly.
If 12-12-18 was coming in would Rangers have brought players in on high wages, knowing that it made no difference to where they would be in the next season. Maybe yes, maybe no, the point is that it would have been a factor they were able to consider. It may have fundamentally changed their business plan for this season.
The same goes for most clubs, to a greater or lesser extent. Definitely being in a league of 18 the next season would have allowed them to do things differently.
Many decent fans are being taken for a ride in this farce. TRFC fans appear to be funding a rickety old barge heading for the rocks….again.
Fans throughout the country are being fed misinformation by the games leaders with no real public objection from their own clubs.
Given the verbal and written statements most recently attributed to present and past custodians of the rickety old barge surely the games rulers need to demand full disclosure of shareholder details? It is time the people at the top started protecting its member clubs instead of threatening them in furtherance of its newest and only associate member.
Also, I can only assume that CG’s latest ramblings were not the subject of legal scrutiny prior to being placed on public view (some screenshots may be required as surely someone with sense will have it removed), as the content could/should interest the courts of this land of ours.
Finally. Well done to the FAC group for its orderly and very well attended assembly in George Square today.
Just to confirm.
Charles Green went on record to confirm he resigned as a director of Sevco 5088 before they bought the assets from Duff and Phelps
Companies House have on file an application dated 27th December 2012, signed by Charles Green in his capacity as a Director of Sevco 5088 , seeking to wind up the company.
Charles Green, a CEO of a Plc , has used an official outlet of the club/Plc to mislead the stock market and it appears to lie to shareholders
As a matter of fact,there is still no record of Greens resignation at Companies House, and he remains the sole Director at Sevco 5088.
Greens actions are extremely serious. When you take the publics money, you have an obligation to never mislead or lie. The Rangers fans are the victims in this. No doubt many lost their entire shareholding value, thanks to the actions of Murray. They do not deserve to be treated shabbily by people they put their trust in.
Cenkos and the non execs at Rangers must be furious with Green.
My money is on him being suspended within the next fortnight
First call to SSE John the Rangers shareholder ripping into Green, as a disgrace to the office with his conduct.
Buried away just clocked this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-22041145
SDM stil coining it despite massive losses. Cant be bad ay? Must give every admiring gers supporter a warm glow. And BTW it was al Craigies fault. Makes my blood boil.
it’s not all bad news though (delusional is the word the springs to mind) 🙂
http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/company-news/rangers-bid-to-widen-commercial-activities.1365149650
I thought Graham Spiers was very good on RS tonight about the realities of liquidation and the Ibrox club
Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain) says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 18:41
4 0 Rate This
I thought Graham Spiers was very good on RS tonight about the realities of liquidation and the Ibrox club
==========
I notice he was a lone voice, really need balance on shows like that
I have just had the misfortune to listen to Chris Graham on BBC sportsound.
He had free reign as the panel was Graham Spiers and Tom English.
He spouted that Celtic basically run the SFA. Silence from panel.
Rangers are same club mentioned about 5 times. He based this on ECA sending SFA a letter to confirm Rangers status. According to Mr Graham SFA stated that they were the same club with all their history. He also stated that the licence issued by SFA sealed the deal. Not much of an argument apart from Mr Spiers who stated that Traynor in the past confirmed that they were a new club in the past. Chris Graham “he would not say that now” Enough said.
I have a real problem as I now find myself asking what is liquidation what does it really mean. Did any club in Scotland actually get liquidated??
Appointment with Doctor on Mon to get diagnosed for early signs of dementia.
I can understand Mr Graham trying to cling on to the corpse of his club as it is his club but on a BBC Sports radio show you want some sort of balance, sorry rephrase that you WANT a balanced panel to question Mr Graham’s views.
In fact why is a blogger now able to promote a third div team on national radio as his views will only be biased towards Sevco.
valentinesclown says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 18:54
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We learned all we needed to know about Chris Graham from his antics with the BBC over the invitation to him and Paul McConville to appear on Sportsound last December, never mind from his half-witted, delusional “Rangers Standard”. This is the chief proponent of the “unseen Fenian hand” theory, so why should anyone have been surprised by his many references to Celtic tonight?
Shame on the BBC for even considering giving this Green lickspittle a platform this evening.
valentinesclown. Of course it wasn’t balanced. Poor Chris was a lone voice amongst anti-Rangers people on the BBC (also anti-Rangers). And most of those newspapers and websites are anti-Rangers. All enemies.
Rangers was proved innocent of various charges, which is a slap in the face for those idiots who said they’d be found guilty. How much more anti-Rangers stuff needs to be posted before the truth dawns on people that Rangers survived liquidation and should have had more help in doing it?
Nah, it was a shame the way Chris fell away badly after a decent start. I agreed with a with a few points he made about our game but he jumped back into his trench when old club was mentioned.
I wish he could just see this is about opposing cheating, anti the rogues that ran his club into the ground and oddly enough, anti the guys trying to fleece him and his fans all over again.
Those that back these characters can have little sympathy but it ain’t an anti-Rangers movement. Own worst enemy as far as I can see. Crazy.
I just watched the Dundee Utd v Aberdeen game.
If anyone thinks that getting into the top 6 and competing for a place in Europe doesn’t mean a lot then try telling that to the players, management and fans of Dundee Utd.
Congratulations to them.
Here is a question…
What is the position within FIFA/UEFA…when a club is still owned or run by a person who is banned from owning or running a professional football club and what processes must be followed to resolve such an issue?
I think I may need to send an email to said bodies for guidance…
valentinesclown says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 18:54
They can keep these arguments going for as long as they want, it doesn’t really matter. The bottom line is that the current structure of RIFC PLC and RFC Ltd is not the same as the previous one.
There was no “holding company” to sell the club on, it’s as simple as that.
Rangers was formed as a members club. That club changed itself into a limited company. That limited company changed itself into a PLC. That PLC is being liquidated. There is a clear link between the club that was formed and the PLC which was liquidated, they are the same thing.
Now with the current set up the PLC could actually be liquidated and the club sold as a going concern. The PLC would not even need to be liquidated. I believe that some time in the future the PLC will sell the club. However that was not possible before.
So Chris can say what he wants. As can Charles Green when he says he “bought Rangers history”, who did you buy that history from, presumably the PLC which was formerly the limited company which was formerly the members club. The one being liquidated.
Oh and on Charles Green, he is the one who said that if the CVA failed then the club died and a new one would be formed. As did Jim Traynor. Unequivocally by both of them, no CVA and liquidation means the end of the club.
Rangers died, of that there is no doubt. The fans now want to follow the new Rangers, playing at Ibrox and wearing the same strip.
Did Charles get a receipt for the history from Sevco 5088?
Please, please, please someone correct me here, but I can’t see what type of fraud Green has committed.
I can’t see what kind of case Whyte has unless he can demonstrate that Green wasn’t allowed to transfer the stock.
As the sole director of 5088, he certainly had the legal authority to do it, provided he hadn’t already resigned. So either Whyte needs something that shows he had a binding agreement with Green that prevented Green from transferring the stock or there needs to be some form of regulation that would make it illegal.
Sevco 5088 was a newly formed company at the time. It certainly wasn’t floated, so the restrictions and responsibilities on those running it were nothing like a strict as for a company open for investment to the public.
There may be something in the statues that should have prevented Green from deliberately acting in a manner that stiffed his investors. It would be ironic if Whyte was able to use some variant on the “Gratuitous Alienation” rules to get his hands back on Rangers debt free, but it would be even more ironic if Whyte had just been “Outspiv-ed” by Green.
As the kind of guy who secretly tapes meetings, its not too likely that Whyte would leave himself open to the kind of rip off, but he needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat, or all he’s done is sacrifice himself to take Green down.
HirsutePursuit says..
Did he get a receipt for the history? Haha! Loved it, but seriously, you raise a good point…what proof does he have? Given the shall we say…uncertainty? ?..of his pronouncements, it would be good if he could produce something, but who in Scotland with any authority would actually demand it or even ask nicely.
Then again, what proof does he have of anything actually? It reminds me of the question of why the authorities actually sat down and discussed anything with him when he proported to be a potential buyer.
ptd1978 says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 19:57
If he promised to do things which he didn’t intend doing. Or he promised not to do things that he intended doing then that is deception.
If he got something by doing it, i.e. the assets, wholly or in part, then that is a tangible benefit.
If he did all of that to the detriment of another person or group of people then there was a victim.
In simple terms that would constitute a common law fraud in Scotland. However, it is questionable whether Whyte should have been investing in a company which was then going to buy the assets from his other company, which was being liquidated leaving very substantial debts. The fact that he was using a “front man” to do it kind of demonstrates him thinking that way, and he does have form for doing the shadow director thing.
As I said, I very much doubt that either of them really wants to go down this route.
(With apologies to lawyers, I am talking in broad terms).
DR 6April
Former Sheffield United boss Dave Bassett warns Rangers fans to expect turbulence under Charles Green’s reign
In the last week at Ibrox, Ally McCoist’s chief scout Neil Murray and physio Philip Yeates have both left the club, striker Fran Sandaza has been sacked after he was the victim of a hoax call and the stadium’s facilities manager, Ross Macaskill, has also left.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Whats the most significant event in the last week?
Sandaza sacking?
Nope
Chief Scout Murray`s departure?
Nope
Departure of Facilities Manager Ross McCaskill?
Yep
The Facilities Manager is the person responsible for the Health and Safety function at Ibrox
Part of his role is to advise the Board when the building services (gas, water, power etc) and building fabric (steelwork, roofing, seating,heating etc) needs to be repaired or upgraded to comply with the law. When repair or upgrade work is required he is the person who specifies what is to be done and liaises with contractors to write and approve specifications,take tenders and supervise builderwork
His departure therefore leaves a big asset management hole in a business which claims to have earmarked £5.5m for maintenance at Ibrox
I wonder if he got a generous pay off in exchange for silence about how much repair work has been done or delayed since Whyte arrived in May 2011 and Green arrived in May 2012?
Not having a qualified Facilities Manager on the premises will not be an excuse if the Board neglect to maintain the building fabric.They are still legally liable
Captain Haddock says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:03
There would surely have to be some form of contract between the administrators and Sevco 5088 (if that’s the right one) detailing exactly what they were buying and what they were paying for it. A receipt by any other name.
Just a reminder a shareholder does not necessarily have to be a director of a company.
If Sevco 5088 is still registered then it should be possible to see if Whyte is a shareholder as he appears to be claiming.
A company check web-site says
Business Summary.
Sevco 5088 Limited is a Pending business incorporated in England & Wales on 29th March 2012. Their business activity has not been recorded. Sevco 5088 Limited is run by 1 current members. It has no share capital. It is not part of a group. The company has not yet filed accounts. Sevco 5088 Limited’s risk score was amended on 17/01/2013.
Note – no share capital, so the 137k can’t be there, can it?
I think the whole thing stinks but like the BTC and LNS have a feeling this may all peter out
goosygoosy says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:13
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I also believe that Jacqueline Gourlay, head of Business Development at TRFC and the last trustee of the Rangers Charity Foundation who was still directly employed by the club, was also told to clear her desk last week.
Or is this old news? Certainly her Linked-In profile describes as the “former head of Business Management”.
As a Rangers supporter I wish we could all get back to the football.
I’ve no doubt that all the information in this website and various posts are factually correct but i’m afraid it bores me to tears.
The financial mismanagement, double dealings and strange decisions has left my club in a hellish state of which it will take years to recover. No-one is to blame but Murray/Whyte/ Green and whoever comes next however the voracity by which the various bloggers here contribute just goes to show the great hole that a competitive Rangers leaves in the top flight of Scottish football.
The predicament of Rangers together with state of the Scottish national team (which is of paramount performance personally) contributes to a football nadir for myself.
At 37 years old I’ve never known it so bad. I’m about ready to pack it in and I think many other fans feel the same.
Keep up the good work SFM
Sevco official statement – of course, i guess Green might just be telling the orcs what they want to hear – he has form for it you know
————————–
CHARLES Green and Ally McCoist today released the following statements:
Charles Green said: “I spoke with Ally McCoist today and we are agreed that despite the wild and outlandish allegations tossed around by Craig Whyte, the one thing that matters most is the rebuilding of this Club.
“I am totally committed to that and Ally is exactly the same. Neither of us will be deflected from our task. We share the same goal and we will be successful no matter who or what attempts to get in our way.
“I made it absolutely clear to Ally that there was never any possibility of Whyte returning to Ibrox and I also stressed that this man has no claim on any of the Club’s shares or assets.
“I could have waited until after the Queen’s Park match at Hampden tomorrow but I met with Ally today. I wanted to make sure he understood what Whyte is trying to do because, like every other fan, our manager has a right to know if the disgraced former owner still has any involvement in this Club.
“I told Ally that is not the case and that there was never any possibility of Whyte being involved with my group.
“Ally knows and accepts that I cannot be held responsible for Whyte’s ramblings or his ridiculous claims. But Ally is a fan and he would have been alarmed at the re-emergence of Whyte and his claims.
“Along with all the good and loyal Rangers fans Ally has lived through the brief but calamitous Whyte era and the very mention of this man’s name is enough to have even the strongest of them concerned. But there is no need for any anxiety.
“Rangers FC, no part of it and none of the assets will ever fall into Whyte’s hands. If I have to I will stand at the front door and deny him entry.
“I can guarantee every single fan that I will not let them down and that Whyte has no claim on any part of this great Club.
“I have told Ally that and I have told him the truth of the matter, just as I have always done. He knows what we are doing and where we want to take this huge Club and Rangers FC will return to the very top.
“Whyte will have nothing to do with that and he will never benefit from it either. That is an absolute fact and I just wish the media would stop pandering to a man who is clearly out of touch with reality.”
Ally McCoist said: “Yes we spoke and I’m glad we did. I never believed that Charles had entered into any kind of agreement but it was important to have a chat after what the former owner had been putting about in the papers.
“I am a fan and it would be devastating to have this man back anywhere near the Club he almost destroyed.”
CHARLES Green and Ally McCoist today released the following statements:
Charles Green said: “I spoke with Ally McCoist today and we are agreed that despite the wild and outlandish allegations tossed around by Craig Whyte, the one thing that matters most is the rebuilding of this Club.
“I am totally committed to that and Ally is exactly the same. Neither of us will be deflected from our task. We share the same goal and we will be successful no matter who or what attempts to get in our way.
“I made it absolutely clear to Ally that there was never any possibility of Whyte returning to Ibrox and I also stressed that this man has no claim on any of the Club’s shares or assets. “I could have waited until after the Queen’s Park match at Hampden tomorrow but I met with Ally today. I wanted to make sure he understood what Whyte is trying to do because, like every other fan, our manager has a right to know if the disgraced former owner still has any involvement in this Club.
“I told Ally that is not the case and that there was never any possibility of Whyte being involved with my group. “Ally knows and accepts that I cannot be held responsible for Whyte’s ramblings or his ridiculous claims. But Ally is a fan and he would have been alarmed at the re-emergence of Whyte and his claims.
“Along with all the good and loyal Rangers fans Ally has lived through the brief but calamitous Whyte era and the very mention of this man’s name is enough to have even the strongest of them concerned. But there is no need for any anxiety.
“Rangers FC, no part of it and none of the assets will ever fall into Whyte’s hands. If I have to I will stand at the front door and deny him entry.
“I can guarantee every single fan that I will not let them down and that Whyte has no claim on any part of this great Club.
“I have told Ally that and I have told him the truth of the matter, just as I have always done. He knows what we are doing and where we want to take this huge Club and Rangers FC will return to the very top. “Whyte will have nothing to do with that and he will never benefit from it either. That is an absolute fact and I just wish the media would stop pandering to a man who is clearly out of touch with reality.”
Ally McCoist said: “Yes we spoke and I’m glad we did. I never believed that Charles had entered into any kind of agreement but it was important to have a chat after what the former owner had been putting about in the papers.
“I am a fan and it would be devastating to have this man back anywhere near the Club he almost destroyed.”
———————————————————–
So, there you have it – Ally is not for walking away. Surely no lawyer or PR guru worth his salt would sanction these further ramblings of Green as an official statement – particularly in view of possible legal proceedings? Charles just can’t resist opening his mooth and lettin’ his belly rummle. This trait may add to his eventual downfall.
ali mclauchlan says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:28
Why would you read something which “bores you to tears”
This isn’t actually a site about discussing football per se, there are loads of those. This is more about the issues surrounding football, the finances, governance etc. It’s about discussing issues as they arise, which are important to the game. In particular the ones which the MSM seem to want to ignore.
If you actually want to discuss football I would suggest this isn’t really the right place.
ali mclauchlan says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:28
8 11 Rate This
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Good post. However. Would you have followed a ‘new’ Rangers which washed it’s hands of the WATP mentality and the 54 titles/World Records.
and yes … TSFM – keep up the good work
With regards to the stadium facilities manager being more of a problem ( ie. not in position) I think someone posted in the last two days that not having a physiotherapist on the books breached either uefa or fifa rules or perhaps both. Sevco may be outsourcing this as players need treatment and not always for injuries. I wonder if sfa rules cover this?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:46
Sevco official statement – of course, i guess Green might just be telling the orcs what they want to hear – he has form for it you know.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Given that the last straw poll taken on RM (after last Saturday’s match) had almost 60% of those taking part as wanting Ally to walk away, I hardly think that Green’s latest endorsement of the pie-eater is what they wanted to hear. 🙂
ali mclauchlan says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:28
I don’t agree with some of your post, I upthumbed you because it’s great to see you posting here. Decent Bears like yourself can make all the difference to what’s happening at your club and subsequently Scottish Football. I remember players like Greig and Forsyth (not all that fondly lol), If Rangers had an ethos – they espoused it. I’m not sure what single word describes my club’s ethos, but yours is surely ‘Staunch’. The Gullane Sands didn’t beat John and Tom, and Murray/Green/Whyte should not beat you. Surrender? … you know the next word.
I know it’s painful to watch what’s happening to your club, I remember the 90s, and I know that Fergus could easily have been a charlatan – but thank clover he wasn’t.
Rangers fans like you have many friends on here, I’m one of them.
Hopefully our two teams will play each other again with my team always winning of course.
In an ideal world there will be 4 or 5 teams (including ours) always battling for the honours as it was in the good old 80s.
“Rangers FC, no part of it and none of the assets will ever fall into Whyte’s hands. If I have to I will stand at the front door and deny him entry.
“I can guarantee every single fan that I will not let them down and that Whyte has no claim on any part of this great Club.
That’s thats old club, and why would you be required at the bottom of the stairs if he has no chance. Ssssssshhhhiiiittteeeee.
ptd1978 says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 19:57
Whether or not Green has committed a fraud in his dealings with Whyte, he has clearly stated that he lied to him and deliberately misled him in order to get what he, Green, wanted. That clearly suggests that, at the very least, they are each as bad as the other – and would you want someone as bad as Whyte at the helm of your club? But maybe you already do have that someone there! Without a paper trail fraud is a very difficult crime to prove, that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened, and fraud usually contains lies and deceit, two things Green has admitted to in his negotiations with Whyte! Green’s response to the charges in the Sun seems to be, ‘I cheated a cheat, so that’s alright!
ali mclauchlan says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:28
I don’t believe that for a fraud to be proven the victim has to be considered whyter than whyte themselves. (Apologies, couldn’t resist it).
Now whether or not that person wished to make a complaint, or give the necessary evidence and themselves be scrutinised by the Police and the Court is another matter. Particularly if the fraud against them related to a deal that they shouldn’t have been involved with in the first place.
It’s basically just rogues and charlatans defrauding each other. Ultimately the real victims are normal Scottish football supporters. Rather ironically the biggest victims are likely to be the normal Rangers fans. However try telling them that and you can be sure the wagons will be circled. You will be attacking Rangers, and not the person who owns 8% of the club and is taking them for mugs.
The warning about Mr Green will be treated in the same way as the warnings against Mr Whyte.
valentinesclown says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 18:54
37 1 Rate This
I have just had the misfortune to listen to Chris Graham on BBC sportsound.
He had free reign as the panel was Graham Spiers and Tom English.
He spouted that Celtic basically run the SFA. Silence from panel.
Rangers are same club mentioned about 5 times. He based this on ECA sending SFA a letter to confirm Rangers status. According to Mr Graham SFA stated that they were the same club with all their history.
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i wonder who it was that the ECA spoke to at the SFA regarding T’Rangers
surely it could not have been ex Rangers Director Mr Ogilvie ?
wottpi says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 20:23
2 1 Rate This
I think the whole thing stinks but like the BTC and LNS have a feeling this may all peter out
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Aye, there is even the bizarre possibility they are still working together, and that this is just theatre to give Mr Green a much-needed triumph – a distraction from the sackings and dismissals as he announces the ST price! Dave Bassett’s description of Mr Green rings true though.
Missed Stuart Cosgrove on Sportsound Extra. By the end, this Chris Graham character sounded just like any other biased fan: ‘Everyone has an agenda against us, especially the horrid BBC because they called us a new club’.
Has RTC shown up again following the recent Whyte revelations? Don’t you miss the good old days? Time for Craigy boy to mix it all up again.
Anyone running a book on when the Upper Tier judgement will be announced?
WATP = We Aren’t Tax Payers
Hail Hail.
“I am a fan and it would be devastating to have this man back anywhere near the Club he almost destroyed.”
___________________
Quick update Ally, not ALMOST but COMPLETELY destroyed the club. It no longer exists.
ptd1978 says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 19:57
0 0 Rate This
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Essentially, Mr Whyte seems to be claiming that he and Mr Green entered into a (verbal) contract that would place Mr Green as the “frontman” for Sevco 5088. Mr Green and his colleague (Aiden Early) – according to this alleged contract – would have a majority interest and ultimate control of the company.
As Mr Green said to Mr Whyte – “you are Sevco”
Mr Whyte is further claiming that Sevco 5088 should not have transferred its recently acquired assets to Mr Green’s new company Sevco Scotland without Mr Whyte & Mr Earley’s authority to do so. Mr Whyte says that Mr Green was not given the authority to transfer its assets to Sevco Scotland.
Mr Green does not appear to deny that this verbal agreement was made: he claims only that the agreement was never put in written form. He perhaps forgets (or did not know) that a verbal contract is normally held to be valid in Scotland.
Nor does Mr Green seem to deny that he made the decision to transfer Sevco 5088’s assets without Mr Whyte & Mr Earley’s consent.
He appears to have openly acknowledged that he purposely lied to Mr Whyte during their negotiations and never intended to fulfill his side of their agreement. This admission appear, at face value, to elevate the risks that Mr Green now faces.
If he is admitting that he had approached negotiations with Mr Whyte with the prior intention to deceive (for his own monetary gain), it takes his conduct beyond the realms of a relatively simple breach of contract.
Instead of facing a potential civil case, his apparent admissions raise the very real possibility of a criminal investigation.
Sevco 5088 Ltd, Sevco Scotland Ltd and RFC 2012 Ltd – Which One Claims to Be Rangers?
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/sevco-5088-ltd-sevco-scotland-ltd-and-rfc-2012-ltd-which-one-claims-to-be-rangers/
repost thanks
Please don’t give Chris Graham the pleasure of any further reference on this site. He is not worth a further mention.
I find it strange that Chris Graham can be given a platform to spout nonsense on a publicly funded broadcaster with no counter point being allowed.
Was this not the same Chris Graham that refused to appear on a show on the anniversary of Rangers administration because he would be challenged on his position. This resulted in the show being cancelled yet here he is given free reign with no opposing view allowed.
Why is nobody ever given a platform who will simply call this saga exactly what it is; a tawdry tale of greed, disgused as good business, by shady characters that have stolen and infested our sport for their own personnal glorification. When laid bare for all who really wished to see the people charged with governing our sport broke and ignored rules, bullied member clubs, lied and decieved investigations to cover their own incompetence or corruption to keep alive an ideal that simply does not belong in the twenty first century.
“I made it absolutely clear to Ally that there was never any possibility of Whyte returning to Ibrox and I also stressed that this man has no claim on any of the Club’s shares or assets.
From the Green statement…
______________________________________________________
Again he’s very clever with his words. TRFC are a shell, there aren’t any shares in them or do they own any assets, it’s the holding company RIFC and that’s what Whyte is after.
Is it possible that this Whyte re-emergence and Green reaction is a further smokescreen to distract attention from some other financial shenanigans? Call out the forensics squad, their time has returned.
I’m intrigued at the way Green embellishes parts of his pronouncements (“If I have to I will stand at the front door and deny him entry”) as a kind of unintended bullshit alert. Same as the second pound he gave Whyte (I don’t believe he gave him a first one). Is there a name for this kind of behaviour?
His latest still allows for a situation where the plc owns the assets, not the club. Not that we should believe a word of a self-confessed liar.
I notice some commenters are using Craig Whyte as the benchmark against which to judge the trustworthiness of Green. That speaks volumes for the expectations and, perhaps, standards of some. Their judgement isn’t too good either. Will this ever end? A year from now will there be another spiv in place and being judged as at least a bit better than the previous ones? Someone clean up this mess or sweep it away! Not under a certain carpet, by the way.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18881004
money money money…were duff n duffer in on it too…ask craigy boy !!
justshatered says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 22:08
Why is nobody ever given a platform who will simply call this saga exactly what it is; a tawdry tale of greed, disgused as good business, by shady characters that have stolen and infested our sport for their own personnal glorification. When laid bare for all who really wished to see the people charged with governing our sport broke and ignored rules, bullied member clubs, lied and decieved investigations to cover their own incompetence or corruption to keep alive an ideal that simply does not belong in the twenty first century.
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Because it has all been condoned by and will continue to be condoned by ‘the establishment’ if you catch my drift! And unfortunately we can’t beat them. Can we?
How is it C Graham the defender of the Newco entity,is allowed such free reign? I am accustomed to such one way chatter regards, Sevco 5088 or whatever it is these days. But when Paul McConville from shall we say, a different side of the tracks, given no such air-time? If I were a cynical being, I could probably ascertain something from that. These are indeed strange times Thatchirite’s in power, SNP clownirite’s and a Whyte sky that burn,s bright over Govan, with a Green evervecent sun-set to make the eyes glisten, to my tipple I go to find some answer,s for I know McCoist will find none.
jean7brodie says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 22:26
Because it has all been condoned by and will continue to be condoned by ‘the establishment’ if you catch my drift! And unfortunately we can’t beat them. Can we?
=========================
They were absolutely convinced that the new Rangers would get into the SPL, or at worst SFL1, no-one will convince me otherwise.
The fans stopped that happening, and beat them. The fans are football, they are where the money comes from (directly or indirectly).
td1978 says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 19:57
Please, please, please someone correct me here, but I can’t see what type of fraud Green has committed.
I can’t see what kind of case Whyte has unless he can demonstrate that Green wasn’t allowed to transfer the stock.
As the sole director of 5088, he certainly had the legal authority to do it, provided he hadn’t already resigned. So either Whyte needs something that shows he had a binding agreement with Green that prevented Green from transferring the stock or there needs to be some form of regulation that would make it illegal.
Sevco 5088 was a newly formed company at the time. It certainly wasn’t floated, so the restrictions and responsibilities on those running it were nothing like a strict as for a company open for investment to the public.
There may be something in the statues that should have prevented Green from deliberately acting in a manner that stiffed his investors. It would be ironic if Whyte was able to use some variant on the “Gratuitous Alienation” rules to get his hands back on Rangers debt free, but it would be even more ironic if Whyte had just been “Outspiv-ed” by Green.
As the kind of guy who secretly tapes meetings, it’s not too likely that Whyte would leave himself open to the kind of rip off, but he needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat, or all he’s done is sacrifice himself to take Green down.
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I`ll have a go at explaining the issue
I suspect the original Whyte/Green/D&P plan was for Sevco5088 to do all the things that got done by Sevco Scotland
When the deal was done Green told Whyte he now owned the same share of Sevco Scotland that he owned in Sevco 5088 and that ownership of Sevco 5088 conferred a pro rata ownership of Sevco Scotland ( a large porkie)
To make this porky believable to Whyte, Green issued a statement to STV saying that Sevco Scotland had received RFC assets transferred from Sevco5088 effectively telling Whyte they were not bought directly from D&P
So for a while Whyte thought that everything planned to happen with Sevco5088 was now happening with Sevco Scotland later renamed TRFC
Whyte smelled a rat when TRFC enlarged its share capital from 2 shares to 22m shares
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A digression
Sevco 5088 was set up with 2 shares. This did not mean it only had 2 investors simply that various investors owned fractions of shares by dint of being in a group who banded together to put cash into Sevco 5088.
When a co is set up it needs a two thirds majority approval of shareholders before it can take certain actions.
One of the actions that needs a 2/3 majority is an increase in the no of shares from 2 shares to a bigger figure (let’s say 22m shares) This allows the smaller investors to become visible since they need to be named if they own 3% or more. The rest of the investors remain invisible until the Co is legally obliged to publish a Share Register
When an increase in the number of shares is proposed the existing shareholders are entitled to get their share of the enhanced volume pro rata to their investment
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So If Craig Whyte or his nominee could prove(with a letter or otherwise) he had invested 51% of the funds in Sevco5088 (which he thought = TRFC) then he would automatically be entitled to just over 11m shares say 11.1m shares. ( the numbers are made up to ease understanding)
Whyte never saw these shares because the very act of creating them also involved creating some “extra” shares
SuppooseTRFC issued 22m shares but decided to only “allocate” say 20m shares to existing shareholders and sell the extra 2m shares to 3rd parties putting the proceeds into the Sevco5088 bank.
Such an action would dilute the ownership of Whites 10.1m holding in Sevco5088
This means that Whyte could be outvoted if the new investors ganged up on him
However
To avoid this kind of shenanigan the law would require the 2m shares to be offered to existing shareholders before being offered to 3rd parties. Whyte would thus be able to protect his 51% ownership by snapping up his entitlement to extra shares
To deny Whyte his entitlement the Sevco 5088 Board had to pass a 2/3 majority vote removing the right of all existing shareholders getting first dibs on the extra 2m shares
This could not be passed with Whyte owning 51%
Instead
When
Whyte sent a cheque to Green for his pro rata share of the extra shares to protect his ownership position by ensuring he still owned 51% of the enlarged share capital
Green “mislaid” his cheque for his extra shares and to this day a cheque from Whyte for £137k is in Greens possession
Green then “bought” these extra shares using £50k from Stockbridge and £200k from Imran Khan
Green then retrospectively “passed” a “2/3 majority resolution removing all shareholders entitlement to the extra shares He registered the resolution at Companies House
Green also used his newly obtained “majority” voting power to tell D&P that Sevco5088 wanted the RFC assets transferred to a new co called Sevco Scotland
Quite clever really
But against the law I reckon if Whyte has a paper trail to prove it
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 22:49
Thanks chippy you have restored my confidence! I love to get good vibes from posts like yours. I will sleep happy on this tonight and then I will be depressed out of my box with comments tomorrow.
One thing to remember in this part of the omnishambles …
sevco 5088 is an english company
that would have seriously hampered it’s ability to morph into a scottish football club
broadswordcallingdannybhoy says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 21:00
Hopefully our two teams will play each other again with my team always winning of course.
In an ideal world there will be 4 or 5 teams (including ours) always battling for the honours as it was in the good old 80s.
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Broadsword, your two teams have never played each other, unless your team plays in the fourth teir of Scottish football. Just a reminder, not to fall int the trap of ‘the same club’!
jean7brodie says:
Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 23:00
Why thank you, I am genuinely touched.
Please don’t let it get you down too much. At the end of the day, when all is said and done, and there are no clichés left, without the paying customer it’s all just blokes playing football in big empty stadia with no-one watching on TV.
The fans really do have all the power. That’s the thing about being “just a customer” if you take your custom elsewhere then there is no business. The fans’ real power is over the business side, not over the football side.
The same goes for the papers, the radio and the TV. For all of the so called journalists and commentators. Without us they have nothing. No paying customer means no profits and no wages. We are football and they al know it.
And I did genuinely laugh out loud at chippy, quality.