The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
jerfeelgood says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:44
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Eeramacaroonbar (@Eeramacaroonbar) says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:28
Very good post…….
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Cheers
Hope I am wrong. With BDO on the case and the implications of the IPO being dodgy, there is maybe the chance of justice. I just think they have many friends in many places – a la Bryson and can see them side stepping the carnage once again
greenockjack says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:19
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Enter stage left, one Donald Muir esq. ??
If you look at the 2 principle beneficiaries of this tale – Lloyds bank and David Murray- that’s where I would look.
Who was employed and bonused to be aligned with the bank’s interests?
The idea that Murray didn’t know what was happening is ridiculous.
The idea that Murray designed the entire scheme is quite credible, but as yet we have no evidence.
I often wonder if leaks to the bampots were actually part of the game. Get people to see documents like the SPA and show how hard Murray had tried to rope Whyte into to doing the right thing by Rangers.
Phil MacGiollaBhain@Pmacgiollabhain29m
Morning 🙂 I had a silly dream that Craig Whyte taped a Knight of the Realm with brave Sir knight suggesting a certain way of raising money
It will be interesting to see if Media House / TRFC [Jim Traynor] now start to mount a defence of (S)DM.
I have posted on both RTC and here several times over the last 9 months that SDM has never really gone away. Not a very popular view back then. However now the smoke is clearing, the mirrors are broken, and it seems at least possible that Whyte was all along simply SDM’s patsy, and Green was intended to be yet another Patsy in a chain which in due course would hand the keys of Ibrox back to some “Rangers men” of SDM’s choosing. Phoenix trading on a grand scale, if true.
I wish I had some confidence in the police and judiciary of bonnie Scotland, but I don’t. The only hope of justice is that AIM or HMRC refer matters to the Serious Fraud Office. However RIFC is still trading on AIM today, which I find incredible, given that almost every detail contained in the prospectus is being challenged, including the ownership of the assets which underpinned the whole exercise. Surely trading of the shares should be suspended immediately, until the situation is fully resolved?
I take some issue with the inference of the Tom English article that Charles Green is the problem ,and that if removed the Club can repair and heal its wounded soul and thereby detoxify.
No. A journalist is trained to consider the 5WH test.
Who? What? Where? Why? When ? How?
At least that is what a decent journalist should be doing.
Who was involved? What conversations took place? Where did they take place? Why did they take place? When did they take place? How was the package put together?
Now ,the real analysis lies, as everybody and their auntie knows, with the whole relationship with the former Rangers, the Bank and the discussions with Craig Whyte and the £1 purchase.
Perhaps,just perhaps with the Ticketus verdict in Court we will see a tape emerging of the conversation we all want to hear ,and that is the conversation between Craig Whyte and Sir David Murray.
Craig Whyte is not the story,neither is Charles Green.We all know where the real story lies.
neepheid says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:59
I dont think many will argue that Murray almost certainly set this all up. After years of not finding a seller, he created the fakeover where some mug could take over RFC for a quid. He then set about delaying the FTT result knowing that the club would go under before the result was in. It makes perfect sense.
Where you will have doubters is with the idea that Murray is still an owner somehow. The whole point of designing a scheme like this is to get out, and that I believe he did.
rantinrobin says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:02
You can’t just cut the Gordian knot and everything is revealed. Real conspiracy investigations don’t work that way. If I may quote the original Deep Throat:
“Deep Throat stamped his foot. ‘A conspiracy like this…a conspiracy investigation…the rope has to tighten slowly around everyone’s neck. You build convincingly from the outer edges in, you get ten times the evidence you need against the Hunts and the Liddys. They feel hopelessly finished – they may not talk right away, but the grip is on them. Then you move up and do the same thing at the next level. If you shoot too high and miss, the everyone feels more secure. Lawyers work this way. I’m sure smart reporters must, too. You’ve put the investigation back months. It puts everyone on the defensive – editors, FBI agents, everybody has to go into a crouch after this.’
Woodward swallowed hard. He deserved the lecture.”
I too had a dream last night. I dreamt I saw a man flying a kite. It was just a dream though. If I had actually seen the man flying the kite, I would have said.
Perhaps he was, but I’ll wait for verification.
I wonder if nipples ever got anywhere with his virtual paper chase. Or are you among us still, it is cold, you are allowed out.
15000+ RFC shares sold this morning so far. Is this the start?
What a fantastic book there must surely be in all this for some novelist looking for a bestseller that might make it’s way onto our tv screens, or even the silver one. Full of well respected ‘pillars of the community’ who aren’t what they seem, spivs and downright crooks, financial ‘experts’ trotted out to give their decidedly ‘inexpert’ views, lawyers, judges, police, heads of government, threats, intimidation, bullets through the post, lies, half-truths, rule bending and breaking, the smell of terrorists, white knights, blue knights, real knights, and dodgy nights rolling into days, journalists – real and pretend, lords, ladies and gentlemen (in brown brogues), The Establishment! And, of course, heroes (Daly, Hutton, Thomson), using no guns or heavies, just pens and laptops, ready to stand up to a wagonload of villains…
The characters go on and on. Names, or colours, would have to be changed, to protect the guilty, in a story where the only good guys are the ones not actually involved, who can only sit on the sidelines hoping that someone will listen to them and sort this sporting/financial/political/legal mess out. The only problem would be with the bookshops; which shelf do they put it on? Sport? Crime? Legal? Political? Economics?
There’s bound to be a fair number of factual books added to PMGB’s Downfall, dealing with various takes on the Rangers saga; but generally, a good novel, based on fact, can get the story over to a wider audience, opening a lot more eyes, and introduce readers to the more factual writings to ensure the story never dies. For that’s what they, the establishment, want, while justice, even just small justice, would be served if the story is read for generations and, in say 100 years, the question is being asked ‘see that Mr Red, how long did he get jailed for?’
Does anyone know if John Grisham is holidaying in Scotland right now?
iamacant says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:17
15000+ RFC shares sold this morning so far. Is this the start?
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Was there a price?
Keith Jackson on Talksport just now sticking the boot in, belatedly.
neepheid says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:59
“Whyte was all along simply SDM’s patsy, and Green was intended to be yet another Patsy in a chain which in due course would hand the keys of Ibrox back to some “Rangers men” of SDM’s choosing. Phoenix trading on a grand scale, if true”
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Neepheid, read your post and the following song came into my head.
Crazy by Patsy (C)line
I believe sha also recorded “I fall to pieces” 🙂
iamacant says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:17
15000 is literally a drop in the ocean.
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:10
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rantinrobin says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:02
You can’t just cut the Gordian knot and everything is revealed. Real conspiracy investigations don’t work that way. If I may quote the original Deep Throat:
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Indeed scapa and I agree the knot has to tighten.The timeline is interesting and worthy of comparison
Watergate burglary 1972
Watergate scandal breaks 1973
Nixon resigns I974
no Bernstein & Woodward on this story though
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:24 iamacant says:
15000 is literally a drop in the ocean.
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Depends who is selling I suppose. It is £100k profit at around 70p per share if it’s one of the penny share brigade
rantinrobin says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:26
Indeed scapa and I agree the knot has to tighten.The timeline is interesting and worthy of comparison
Watergate burglary 1972
Watergate scandal breaks 1973
Nixon resigns I974
no Bernstein & Woodward on this story though
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Never fear, we do have Jackson and Spiers.
rantinrobin says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:26
sadly not lol, but there are signs that such watch dogs as we have are beginning to find their narks, and maybe even their teeth!
Spiers and Jackson.The tools to trust!
Or just a couple of tools?
Speaking of GS. Watch him climb aboard the bandwagon now that he can slag off CG and still be everyone’s pal.
If CW is willing to reveal that he does indeed have a knight of the realm, closely associated with a former SPL team, discussing ways of raising finance to purchase said former SPL club, it can only be because he thinks he is going down. CW is going to take as many with him as he can.
Interesting.
rantinrobin says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:32 Spiers and Jackson.The tools to trust!
Or just a couple of tools?
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Brilliant spot 🙂
Rabo Karabekian says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:28
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:24 iamacant says:
15000 is literally a drop in the ocean.
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Depends who is selling I suppose. It is £100k profit at around 70p per share if it’s one of the penny share brigade
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couple of small sales but 1 bigger.14,288 sold at 69p.
My take is someone who invested £10k has just got out with a small loss.
Probably scared the sh*t hits the fan.
Are we getting a big story today?
The last time we were all a-twitter about a big breaking story it turned out to be a two stage story where the first part wasn’t that exciting, and the second part never appeared.
Too much rumour, not enough substance.
neepheid says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:59
12 0 Rate This
I wish I had some confidence in the police and judiciary of bonnie Scotland, but I don’t …
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You know neepheid, that’s the most discouraging aspect of all, the lack of belief that any authority in Scotland will do the right thing.
The recent volte-face by parts of the media has planted a few seeds of hope though.
iamacant says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11.24
neepheid says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:59
“Whyte was all along simply SDM’s patsy, and Green was intended to be yet another Patsy in a chain which in due course would hand the keys of Ibrox back to some “Rangers men” of SDM’s choosing. Phoenix trading on a grand scale, if true”
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Neepheid, read your post and the following song came into my head.
Crazy by Patsy (C)line
I believe sha also recorded “I fall to pieces”
==========================
I think Slip Sliding Away would be a good one for the Karaoke.
iamacant says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:17
A wee bit more interested in the twit who paid 2.5p over the odds at 8:00 am this morning. The amount bought is tiny, so it can’t be an attempt to support the price, has anyone who can be arsed to check these things, noticed a pattern of this sort of behaviour?
TheTributeAct (@TheTributeAct) says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:07
Where you will have doubters is with the idea that Murray is still an owner somehow. The whole point of designing a scheme like this is to get out, and that I believe he did
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I don’t totally agree with you on your final point.
SDM may have wanted out of the day to day stuff and he certainly wanted shot of his self caused financial problems and the grief he could see heading his way which made it unsaleable.
But I think he was always going to be the Past Master with responsibilities and at some time in the debt free future some honorary or spiritual something or other at the club.
Rangers would always be his club.
Rabo Karabekian says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:30
Never fear, we do have Jackson and Spiers.
Didn’t they make spades for digging? 🙂
Share trades today
1225 @ 71.50 UT Value £875.88
1500 @ 69.80 O Value £1,047
14288 @ 69.00 O Value £9,859
Deriving anything meaningful from this would be guesswork.
beatipacificiscotia says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:35
1 0 Rate This
Are we getting a big story today?
The last time we were all a-twitter about a big breaking story it turned out to be a two stage story where the first part wasn’t that exciting, and the second part never appeared.
Too much rumour, not enough substance.
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The Record reporting the search of Castle Aaargh is a story, but it would be more interesting if they had searched any business premises in Edinburgh.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-raid-craig-whytes-castle-1823685
But today’s real TSFM story must be the news about Dunfermline, not to mention the huge turnout at Firhill last night.
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:43
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iamacant says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:17
A wee bit more interested in the twit who paid 2.5p over the odds at 8:00 am this morning. The amount bought is tiny, so it can’t be an attempt to support the price, has anyone who can be arsed to check these things, noticed a pattern of this sort of behaviour?
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Scapa, an uncrossed trade is an algorithmic tidying up of share price by the Exchange possibly on a number of buy/sell offers. It may even be a tidying at close of business on Tuesday. No-one’s starting a run or losing their shirt yet.
greenockjack says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 07:54
As for the question, When did CW start taping conversations ?
We don´t know but if this was a particular habit of his wouldn´t it have an expiry date ?
Over the years and after doing it and blackmailing a few along the way, surely the world in which he works would get wise to him.
The first tape we know of was post BBC doc II, quite a while after it apparent that not all was going smoothly.
Would he have taped prior to early May 2011 ? Mibbes aye Mibbes naw
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Of course he taped before May 2011.I think we all know his MO well enough to say that with some confidence. It’s only a matter of time befor Minty is dragged back into the mire.
Eeramacaroonbar (@Eeramacaroonbar) says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 10:28
The great danger for authority of all types coming from this is that everything they say will be treated as a self serving lie and the glue of trust that holds the remnants of a civil society together will have melted away, with unforeseen consequences for authority and society.
It is time for men of ethics and honour to step up to the plate (or we are all doomed I tell ya).
What is unfolding at Ibrox is not just the sham of attempts to preserve (The) Rangers but the sham that our society is actually civil.
There is clearly corporate shenanigans,which may eventually lead us all back to SDM.However the real story here comes,partly from Earamacaroonbar.The bottom line is that anything goes,is permissable,will be allowed where it assists a”Rangers”being able to continue.There is far more at play here than finance and football;no matter how much of the brown stuff hits the fan,this will continue.The vested interest are so powerful,that they can do it right in front of our eyes.
In particular the complicit role of the football “authorities”in all this is mindblowing,will English and co. now start enquiring as to how exactly and under what agreement was a new entity allowed into the top league structure?LNS?FTT?etc…….it’s all there,anywhere else in the world this would be a Hack’s utopia.Maybe AT will return,who knows…..
Thinking about the ticketus deal, the amount advanced was around 17million but did I not read on here they were entitled to tax relief at 40% for high risk investment?
That would bring their losses down to 10.2million
They then have a loss on their accounts 10.2 million (or possibly the full 17million) so they save corporation tax on OTHER profits of 24% of 10.2 million ( or possibly on the full 17million ) which leaves them with an actual loss of either 7.3million or maybe even as low as 5.2million.
These are just rough figures without any real knowledge of how these thing works and I would appreciate what the money guys on here understand regards actual loss for ticketus as opposed to the monies advanced?
blu says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:51
Cool, learnt something today, ta Blu!
The interesting thing with Murray is that whilst Rangers sans debt would have been of interest to him never in his wildest dreams did he believe the FTTT and LNS would go the way they did so I assume he exited completely. That FTTT mk II is still lurking I’m not convinced he would have been stupid enough to try to recreate a visible presence. Helping a guy to buy a financial pup off you is not fraud per se, it depends how stupid the other side is. If his vanity persuaded him he could hold onto some of the new offering even via a shady BVI trust then, to quote Brenda yet again, hell slap it into him.
bogsdollox says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:53
I’ve read a couple of references to Watergate. Although I remember it unfolding it was later that I took an interest and the similarity in terms of attempting to protect The President is stark.
Tellingly what turned out to be the smoking gun was a taped conversation between Nixon and his aids (probably Haldeman, Erlichmann and John Dean) where they discussed Watergate and approach to it at a date much earlier than Nixon had already told the public he had first became aware of the matter. Nixon was caught in a lie to the American publc. You can lie in authority all you like, as long as you do not get caught.
Now it is purely conjecture that a smoking gun, in tape form anyway, exists but it is entirely plausible that SDM and CW were in collusion as were CW, D&P and CG.
Now if SDM can cough up £17M or more to get CW off the hook we might hear no more, but reading about SDMs plight at MIH I think that unlikely. Of course to complete the circle the bank might have been in on it too and they might find the readies to keep CW happy.
If it all goes quiet, somebody has.
nevilleprat says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:55
I can only speak for myself. Personally I don’t have a problem with the powers that be assisting the ethereal, mythological 11 in blue, there will always be a rangers ya de ya as long as they do it within the rules. I would expect them to do the same for any club, it is essentially one of the main reasons they are there after all. The rangers support wanted their club (and again to be clear I’m talking about the brand) to continue. Artur Numan’s entry on RM that appeared here a few days ago confirmed to me that the thinking man’s bear just wanted a fair crack of the whip given the self created pig sty they found themselves in. They didn’t really expect any more, until they suddenly saw a better, more blameless, reality bending version was on offer.
All of the corporate bollox, all of the rule bending where none was actually required (and I’ll even include the div 3 entry, on the basis of commercial reality however harsh that is on the spartans etc), all of the party line, spoon fed media crap was unnessecary and came about simply because no-one in authority had the balls to stand up and tell it how it was. The rest as they say is history.
Sorry posted too quick. Meant to finish by confirming why do I think the bearz would have been forced to accept their corporate demise – it goes back to one of RTC’s original premise albeit I acknowldge he/she was very guarded in stating it as a done deal – that the simple conundrum of the FTTT versus the LNS case was this – that to win won was to automatically lose the other. Or so we thought.
TW (@tartanwulver) says: Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 07:31
“I’m happy that Tom English is getting serious about the Rangers story. He is the best writer of all the football hacks in Scotland in my opinion..”
———————————–
TW,
I’d go along with you on the accolade for the best hack, although as somebody else said, that might not be much of a compliment. His stuff tends to seesaw a bit. They all know Green’s tongue has left him without support, so they are now asking the questions they should have been asking for months.
The entire bunch of them look like a pack of hyenas to me. They followed the scent of blood. They sense the quarry is mortally wounded. They close for the kill. They have a lot of rehab to go through before they can call themselves journalists in my opinion.
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:07
bogsdollox says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:53
I’ve read a couple of references to Watergate. Although I remember it unfolding it was later that I took an interest and the similarity in terms of attempting to protect The President is stark.
Tellingly what turned out to be the smoking gun was a taped conversation between Nixon and his aids (probably Haldeman, Erlichmann and John Dean) where they discussed Watergate and approach to it at a date much earlier than Nixon had already told the public he had first became aware of the matter. Nixon was caught in a lie to the American publc. You can lie in authority all you like, as long as you do not get caught.
Now it is purely conjecture that a smoking gun, in tape form anyway, exists but it is entirely plausible that SDM and CW were in collusion as were CW, D&P and CG.
Now if SDM can cough up £17M or more to get CW off the hook we might hear no more, but reading about SDMs plight at MIH I think that unlikely. Of course to complete the circle the bank might have been in on it too and they might find the readies to keep CW happy.
If it all goes quiet, somebody has.
====================================================
I wouldn’t rule out the role of the bank in this as they attempted to reduce their over exposure to the Murray Empire. They would have been gob smacked at the amounts involved and the basis on which it was lent. Who are Ticketus’s bankers?
I doubt CW is really on the hook and if he is its a barbless one and he will soon wriggle free, as he’s no daft.
willmacufree says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:18
English is the best of the bunch. For a while he was a bit restrained but always had it in him to tell it like it is. That strength comes, I think, from him being an “outsider” who if it comes to it can move on. The others need to live and work in Scotland and that is a worry for them.
So something is falling faster than the Rangers share price, Scotland’s FIFA rankings
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22106526?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Over to you Pars fans?
“Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglasF 50s
Dunfermline AFC administrator Bryan Jackson: fans need to “dig deep” over summer. Points out he’s just sold on Portsmouth FC to fans”
Phil MacGiollaBhain@Pmacgiollabhain10m
Apparently there is list of people that Craig Whyte did NOT record. It is a small list. #SevcoFiasco
It appears that there is more taped material potentially availably from TGEF. However, I wonder if the tipping point been reached. Is TGEF making a point (pay up and I’ll walk away quietly) or is he fighting for survival, and we are now at the stage where the flood gates cannot be closed?
spanishcelt says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:56
4 0 Rate This
Thinking about the ticketus deal, the amount advanced was around 17million but did I not read on here they were entitled to tax relief at 40% for high risk investment?
That would bring their losses down to 10.2million
They then have a loss on their accounts 10.2 million (or possibly the full 17million) so they save corporation tax on OTHER profits of 24% of 10.2 million ( or possibly on the full 17million ) which leaves them with an actual loss of either 7.3million or maybe even as low as 5.2million.
These are just rough figures without any real knowledge of how these thing works and I would appreciate what the money guys on here understand regards actual loss for ticketus as opposed to the monies advanced?
=============================
Ticketus are seeking to gain compensation for a loss to a fund that they are managing. The loss to that fund should not be confused with the tax affairs of the investors or the profits made by the fund managers.
The tax relief (currently up to 30% I believe) applies to the investors – not the company. Also, as I understand the Ticketus scheme, the tax relief is applied up-front regardless of the eventual outcome for the investment. So someone can invest £200k (the maximum for this type of tax relief) and immediately claim back £60k from HMRC. Though it has only cost him/her £140k, he/she still owns a £200k portion of that investment.
This, of course, assumes that the individual investors limited their exposure to £200k and were UK taxpayers. Ticketus would not necessarily know the exact tax position of individual investors – indeed, many of the actual investors may be “hidden” via a myriad of nominee companies and attract no direct tax benefit from the Ticketus investment per-se.
Corporation tax applies to the profits that Ticketus make as a company. Whilst there will be some impact on the Ticketus bottom line, a bad investment is borne primarily by the investors. It is highly likely that Ticketus will have already made the bulk of their expected profit on the Rangers deal from the fees charged to the investor(s) for managing the fund.
Eeramacaroonbar at 10.28
Good post. With that nom de plume you must remember the other bit. Erzispearmintchewingum
I might just take that as my own moniker. Ah,those were the days.
vThe Mongoose
Ian Durrant
True Blue
698 posts
Gender:Male
Location:Glasgow
Posted Today, 11:34 AM
If you check out my posts you will see that I am a pretty positive guy and hope I am wrong with this latest ‘Rumour’ that is starting to spread
Apparently there is going to be a Huge Announcement from Rangers this afternoon at 3pm. We are winding up again for another administration. Green has more or less admitted Whyte is still running Rangers and wants out.
There will be a MVL (Members Voluntary Liquidation) which means that anything over a million that’s not having an investments returned. The share issue as an example.Walter Smith is trying to rebuild the Blue Knights n Parks PLC to buy out Green & Whyte once and for all.
As I say only rumour
Hope its Bullshit
========================
I dont.
In these days of ubiquitous awards ceremonies maybe TSFM should have an annual award for the Best Scottish Sports Journalist of the Year voted for by visitors/contributors to this site. Also, the Worst Scottish Sports Journalist of the Year. Far too many contenders, past and present, for the latter. But is anyone worthy of the former ? SG ? PMGB? AT?…………
There is no way the sale from Murray to Whyte was ever going to end up in anything but insolvency. Craig Whyte himself said there was a £10m black hole in the accounts. If the Ticketus deal had actually licked in then that would have been another £7m per year out of the income. So we are now looking at a £17m black hole for 4 seasons.
The only way to cover that was to get into the group stages of the CL in each of those years, and even then you would be looking to break even, income from the CL is not all profit. Failure would mean losses of tens of millions.
The whole point of the plan, all along was to have A Rangers (Whyte even used the phrase himself)playing at Ibrox debt free. It is as clear a contrived insolvency as you could hope to see in my opinion.
The only parts which really failed, and the one followed the other, were the rejection from the SPL and the players walking away.
I do apologise, “kicked in” obviously.
myohmy1 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:55
Eeramacaroonbar at 10.28
Good post. With that nom de plume you must remember the other bit. Erzispearmintchewingum
I might just take that as my own moniker. Ah,those were the days
==================================================================
The wee guy who came round our bit of terracing at Celtic Park had a thrd string to hi bow.It went:
Eeramacaroonbar
Erzispearmintchewingum
and what sounded like “an’ assaulted peanuts”!
Happy Days 😆
chipm0nk says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:05
I think going out of the CL early doors was a major and unforeseen contributing factor.
Just reading the bit about Green supposedly giving it ‘No Surrender’ in his interview from a few months back. The most intetesting bit about this is not that he said it, but that the interviewer chose to sit on it for this length of time…..
Tic 6709 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:56
1 0 Rate This
vThe Mongoose
Ian Durrant
True Blue
698 posts
Gender:Male
Location:Glasgow
Posted Today, 11:34 AM
If you check out my posts you will see that I am a pretty positive guy and hope I am wrong with this latest ‘Rumour’ that is starting to spread
Apparently there is going to be a Huge Announcement from Rangers this afternoon at 3pm. We are winding up again for another administration. Green has more or less admitted Whyte is still running Rangers and wants out.
There will be a MVL (Members Voluntary Liquidation) which means that anything over a million that’s not having an investments returned. The share issue as an example.Walter Smith is trying to rebuild the Blue Knights n Parks PLC to buy out Green & Whyte once and for all.
As I say only rumour
Hope its Bullshit
========================
A story like that might just overshadow the actual ‘good news’ about the Pars and the Armageddonite masses at Firhill 🙂
Someone did mention Thursday last week, but at the moment you could name any day in advance and something will probably happen 😀
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:11
Staying in to the Group stages, and they weren’t even close, not even the Europa, would have saw them through the first season (remember Whyte effectively stole about £14m from the tax man just to stay afloat. So that would have balanced up.
The Ticketus “repayments” would have started in earnest at the start of the next season. So their income would be down about £7m, at the start of that season still with a loss making business (sans CL group stages).
It simply couldn’t work, the insolvency had to happen at some stage. Bearing in mind that Craig Whyte had also told the SPL that a CVA was very unlikely.
chipm0nk says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:15
CW would have borrowed against UEFA income. Their operating model from 2008 at least was to get CL money to stay afloat. Who is to say, given the importance the SFA and SPL placed on Rangers continuing to exist that they would not have won another title and qualified again?
It was always plate spinning and Malmo and Maribor dunted the rods.
Stuart Cosgrove and Phil Mac for me
Danish,
I hope Dunfermline are taken over by the fans, although it’ll still leave them having to negotiate with GM to get use of the stadium. It’s still going to leave a lot of small businesses out of pocket to a great degree, but I would hope they would at least be able to present a decent offer in the pound.
Also, well done to Thistle last night. I suppose (at risk of dragging up that old chestnut) it’s a shame that the thousands who turned out last night couldn’t make it a more regular thing, but then, it’s easy to say that when you don’t know the personal circumstances of those extra fans last night.
When you see a “dying elephant” gradually getting covered in vultures and jackals…. you know that they are not there trying to get the fallen giant back on its feet.
And there will always be squabbling by these scavengers over the prime position on the carcass.
There was an obvious “red flag” in the Interim Accounts as the property values were adjusted upwards yet again and undeniable proof of a continuing unsustainable business model (©SDM); paper profits but substantial negative operating cash flow.
But it’s shortly going to be Hobson’s Choice for loyal fans yet again (no doubt with a reshuffled executive and management line up); don’t buy season tickets and your club is dead; or buy enough and we keep it going ….for a wee while yet.
OOOOOPS
zaxvibex says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:57
In these days of ubiquitous awards ceremonies maybe TSFM should have an annual award for the Best Scottish Sports Journalist of the Year voted for by visitors/contributors to this site. Also, the Worst Scottish Sports Journalist of the Year. Far too many contenders, past and present, for the latter. But is anyone worthy of the former ? SG ? PMGB? AT?…………
————
Stuart Cosgrove and Phil Mac for me
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:21
Borrowed from whom.
They had already gone to Wonga and spent that money. Who would have covered potentially £17m per year based on the hope of CL income and at what rate of interest / arrangement fees.
Certainly not any high street institution.
I agree that it was plate spinning for a number of years, but the new factor was that there could be few, if any, people left who would actually lend them the money.
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:24
6 0 Rate This
iamacant says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 11:17
15000 is literally a drop in the ocean.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No it isn’t
#Colemanballs 😀
This ‘announcement at 3pm’ rumour seems to have taken hold. If it is plans for a hover pitch, I am going to be well cheesed off.
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:37
What a week to be on holiday 🙂
Tic 6709 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:56
Thanks for posting that.
I’m sure it’s well-meant but only serves to highlight the delusional thinking that has made up the governance of the last few companies that have operated out of Edmiston Drive ((Walter to the rescue!). For anyone from the darkside looking in for ideas, you may wish to point Walter and his fellow Non-Exec Directors to the latest offering from “Institute of Chartered Accountants Scotland on the roles & responsibilities of said NeD’s. Some quite explicit statements there on, for example, what to do when companies get into difficulties… Walter’s worries will be more focused on whether there are enough lifebelts available in the blue room or not.
I’m also with you in that, in response, I don’t either
Maybe the Herald editors read these pages. After my complaints about the online Herald’s midnight football coverage (compared to that of Scotsman at same time) a (quite decent) report on the Thistle-Morton game is up fairly prominently – above the report on the meaningless friendly (meaningless I suppose unless you want to investigate where the charity money goes to, or am I being over cynical?).
Lord Wobbly says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:31
Oh FFS got me there your Lordship!
Tic 6709 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:56
Posted Today, 11:34 AM
If you check out my posts you will see that I am a pretty positive guy and hope I am wrong with this latest ‘Rumour’ that is starting to spread
Apparently there is going to be a Huge Announcement from Rangers this afternoon at 3pm. We are winding up again for another administration. Green has more or less admitted Whyte is still running Rangers and wants out.
There will be a MVL (Members Voluntary Liquidation) which means that anything over a million that’s not having an investments returned. The share issue as an example.Walter Smith is trying to rebuild the Blue Knights n Parks PLC to buy out Green & Whyte once and for all.
As I say only rumour
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I think if there was even the slightest truth in this then anyone who could would be dumping their shares right now.
bogsdollox says: Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:25
(wrt willmacufree says:Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:18)
English is the best of the bunch. For a while he was a bit restrained but always had it in him to tell it like it is. That strength comes, I think, from him being an “outsider” who if it comes to it can move on. The others need to live and work in Scotland and that is a worry for them.
—————————–
Sure. But where are the publish and be damned editors and reporters who’ll bring the Wild West of oor bonny wee country into the modern era? Somebody has to lead. Easier said than done I know.
spanishcelt says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:55
2 0 Rate This
Tic 6709 says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 12:56
Posted Today, 11:34 AM
If you check out my posts you will see that I am a pretty positive guy and hope I am wrong with this latest ‘Rumour’ that is starting to spread
Apparently there is going to be a Huge Announcement from Rangers this afternoon at 3pm. We are winding up again for another administration. Green has more or less admitted Whyte is still running Rangers and wants out.
There will be a MVL (Members Voluntary Liquidation) which means that anything over a million that’s not having an investments returned. The share issue as an example.Walter Smith is trying to rebuild the Blue Knights n Parks PLC to buy out Green & Whyte once and for all.
As I say only rumour
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I think if there was even the slightest truth in this then anyone who could would be dumping their shares right now.
========
to whom?
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Thursday, April 11, 2013 at 13:23
5 0 Rate This
Danish,
I hope Dunfermline are taken over by the fans, although it’ll still leave them having to negotiate with GM to get use of the stadium. It’s still going to leave a lot of small businesses out of pocket to a great degree, but I would hope they would at least be able to present a decent offer in the pound.
Also, well done to Thistle last night. I suppose (at risk of dragging up that old chestnut) it’s a shame that the thousands who turned out last night couldn’t make it a more regular thing, but then, it’s easy to say that when you don’t know the personal circumstances of those extra fans last night.
—————
Me too. I put good news in inverted commas because it’s still not good news for creditors, yet. But you hope that the community will not only support the club but value the businesses large and small who have lost out, and hopefully, support them too. The GM angle has much of the financial jiggery-pokery we’ve seen in Glasgow, I hope they an keep him at arm’s length.
I think the Firhill lesson is that it was a match among (financial) equals that really meant something. More of these kinds of matches would be on the menu with more relegation/promotion and play-offs for other placings. It’s what the fans want, it’s exciting. Is anybody at Hampden actually awake? 🙂