Gilt-Edged Justice

ByBig Pink

Gilt-Edged Justice

About the author

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

331 Comments so far

vertwolfPosted on9:47 pm - Mar 9, 2013


Carl31 (@C4rl31) says:
Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 21:06

People have argued that revocation of registration was not the point that LNS should have been looking at but rather whether the players were eligible to play – If is is quite possible to be registered correctly and be ineligible to play (e.g. suspension) surely it is also possible to be registered incorrectly and be ineligible to play ( e.g. not all contracts declared)
If a team fields a suspended player the results are reversed but the registration is not revoked – surely if a team has fielded players whose contracts have not been declared the same should apply?

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readceltPosted on9:52 pm - Mar 9, 2013


County are having a great year. The missus is delighted. Ooh to be a staggie.

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chipsandblogPosted on9:59 pm - Mar 9, 2013


Theres only 2 Glasgow Rangers

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angus1983Posted on10:21 pm - Mar 9, 2013


From RM, verbatim:

“The reason McGregor left and went so far is because he had been feeding deid pal Paul McBride information.

What I’ve been told by Tony Graham is that when McGregor was neighbours with the Deid Qc is that this was dreep fed and through cash payments and them passed on to the Tax Case ‘Blogger’. “

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Madbhoy24941Posted on10:51 pm - Mar 9, 2013


yakutsuki says:

Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 12:21
———————————————-

Sorry but I don’t see why it matters what team Longmuir supports, what if he was an Aberdeen supporter? Would that change anything?

What matters is that rules are made, followed and the game run for the fans of all teams.

Who you support should not be brought into it!

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pau1mart1nPosted on10:53 pm - Mar 9, 2013


one would assume longmuir came to be where he is through some association to an sfl club?? no ???

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dentarthurdent42Posted on11:19 pm - Mar 9, 2013


I couldn’t care less who anyone supports.

I just want the rules applied to everyone equally.

I think that is all we want, the rules applied in the same way to every club.

It’s not a lot to ask for.

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chipsandblogPosted on11:35 pm - Mar 9, 2013


I do not want the rules applied to everybody fairly, I want the corruption and collusion to be open for all to see.

TRFC, the pretendy Rangers shoulf get 5 points a win. For me, this would be fairer, everybody would know what they are up against

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ratethisthenyabampotsPosted on11:58 pm - Mar 9, 2013


Im truly embarrassed to be a Bairn. From Alex Smith in the Daily Record.

Smith said: “If the right changes to the structure of the game aren’t made soon then I fear for the future.

“We don’t have two years to wait for Rangers to move through the leagues as they stand then rejoin the top flight.

“The main requirement is to get them back and address the fall in attendances before that turns into a landslide.

“People aren’t missing a game one weekend and turning out every other week. They’re not coming back.

“The Celtic fans have already shown what the loss of Rangers as their main championship rivals has meant.

“They’ve disappeared in their tens of thousands and the absentees will simply get out the habit of going to games.

“Rangers get phenomenal crowds in the Third Division but that sense of rebellion will also start to wear thin if we have to go another two years without regular Old Firm games. We need to wake up to what’s happening and start thinking outside the box.

“Rangers have been punished for the bad running of their business.

“But it’s the whole game that will suffer if the present decline in interest isn’t addressed because what we have at the moment won’t sustain the interest of television companies and sponsors.

“There was a time when Celtic drew their main motivation from what Rangers were doing against some other club and vice versa. That competitive edge has to be restored or what will be left for any of us?

“Football used to be a way of life in this country but the days of shift workers going from shipyards and factories to the football via the pub have gone.”

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chipsandblogPosted on12:21 am - Mar 10, 2013


I need help writing this hit song so i can get on totp, can you add a line and pass it on…

As I handed her a bag of chips, maybe they should have been flowers
When I took her for a spring walk, I should have remembered April showers

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WeeBullyPosted on12:30 am - Mar 10, 2013


Alex, never mind waking up and thinking outside the box, you should probably get in one and go for wee sleep yourself. Attendances aren’t down because SPL fans miss Rangers. Fans are being bought by TV companies who want people at home, not at games. Those that do go have to pay more and more to make up the losses and therefore drift away to watch on TV. TV is the problem. Rangers are irrelevant, unless of course you are a broadcaster.

The implosion and death of Rangers was their own fault and nobody but nobody should be doing favours to the new club just because they inherited a lot of fans.

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bad capt madmanPosted on12:32 am - Mar 10, 2013


As a don, I’m embarrased that Alex Smith was also associated with our club.
Well now we have it though, a stalwart of the Scottish game openly calling for sporting integrity, honesty and fairness to be ditched again in favour of….what?
He might want to consider just how many fans will not be back if what he’s proposing takes place.
Shocking, disgusting, but maybe a game changer….how many other managers, chairmen, board members and stalwarts feel the same as him?
It’s now clear the choice is an up front one..no more skirting round the side issues..its for all of us to stand for fairness or not. As other posters have said, what happens after TRFC are in the top league? Will they be kept there regardless of their abilities on the field for the same reasons Smith spouts off about? What will be done to keep them up if they are at risk of being last in the league? Who in authority would be trusted anymore? Referees? Disciplinary panels? Rule makers? No. None of them would be or could be trusted, and then no fans of other clubs would bother going to see the farce transpire at £20+ a pop.
Another shameful day if the world of Scottish football. So sad and so unnecessary.

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StevieBCPosted on12:33 am - Mar 10, 2013


ratethisthenyabampots says: Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 23:58

Im truly embarrassed to be a Bairn. From Alex Smith in the Daily Record.

Smith said: “… Football used to be a way of life in this country but the days of shift workers going from shipyards and factories to the football via the pub have gone.”
====================

Well done Smith for stating the bleedin’ obvious!

Yes, times have changed.

Football is not as accessible as it used to be: too expensive, (generally), for reduced quality and inconsistent kick-off times.

Also, the fans – aka the paying customers – today have much more choice of leisure pursuits during their limited free time.

But perhaps most significant is that today people are less accepting of sub-standard service and are much more likely to say: “SFA – and Ogilvie – just stick your corrupt game where the sun doesn’t shine.”

Apologies for the crudeness but Smith should be fully aware that lack of football governance is arguably the biggest threat to the future of Scottish football.

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AuldheidPosted on12:40 am - Mar 10, 2013


ecobhoy says:

Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 15:20

Bryson did not have to accept that the alternative interpretation met the spirit of the rule. He could have said that the alternative interpretation was valid in literal terms but if accepted would result in a totally different understanding of what the registration rule was intended to do. He could have rejected that alternative interpretation but chose not to. Was he right to do so? That is for football authority to decide, not Bryson.

Bryson did not reject the alternative and that gave it an authority that it would not otherwise have had but one LNS had to give weight to. Maybe the SPL should have asked Bryson beforehand if he would argue against the interpretation, maybe it never occured to them that such an interpretation that would suit the outcome sought would be presented, but now that the alterantive has been accepted it either has to be applied to all football or rejected as breaking the intent of the regiostration rules as well as the golden rule.

That is a FIFA decsion and it should be put to them.

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ptd1978Posted on12:55 am - Mar 10, 2013


Time was when today would be a red letter day. Both big Glasgow teams losing. Of course instead we now get Alex Smith telling us how important it is that Trangers must play Celtic at least 4 times a year or unspecified bad things will happen.
Tell you what then. Lets relegate Celtic so they can go at it in the lower leagues.

I fully acknowledge its totally against the principles of fairness and integrity, but its fairer to pick on one club than to disadvantage 18 by having Trangers leapfrog them.
It’ll also remove the block on voting reform in the SPL and make the top league UNBELIEVABLY competitive and will draw fans back to the remaining top tier clubs in droves…

Okay. Non starter for the one very good reason that its not okay to disadvantage one club arbitrarily even though others will benefit greatly.
So why is it being mooted by Alex Smith that a much less advantageous arrangement should be imemented that would disadvantage many, the game in general and only benefit 1 club??
Wind your neck in Smith!! You just threw away your credibility.

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chipsandblogPosted on1:00 am - Mar 10, 2013


its time the press realised that TRFC are irrelevant to Scottish football We really do not need a club that has a fan base with a mindset of the 1930s anywhere near our top league.

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AuldheidPosted on1:10 am - Mar 10, 2013


ianagain says:

Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 17:30

Ecobohy

Excellent analysis so therefore when asked to vote on approval of the LNS decision all the clubs should hold the decision in abeyance until the following is resolved. LNS reached a decision without regard to any appeal. There is no way on earth that the SPL clubs need to. Shelve it until we have a decision.

“The Tax Tribunal has held (subject to appeal) that Oldco was acting within the law in setting up and operating the EBT scheme. The SPL presented no argument to challenge the decision of the majority of the Tax Tribunal and Mr McKenzie stated
expressly that for all purposes of this Commission’s Inquiry and Determination the SPL accepted that decision as it stood, without regard to any possible appeal by HMRC.
——————————————
The SPL could also ask FIFA if they share and accept the alternative interpretation accepted by Bryson re registration and ineligibility and if they will be rewriting their rules to remove any ambiguity.

I also have to say that the parallel between proving there were no weapons of mass destruction when there were none and using the absence of proof as a justification for what came next is quite striking. e.g in the absence of proof of any sporting advantage we have to accept there was none is no different from in the absence of proof you have no wmds we believe because you cannot orove otherwise that there are some. It is a logic that suits the end purpose.

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justshateredPosted on1:50 am - Mar 10, 2013


A club collapses into Administration owing £16M in tax and NI.

A shocking Administration process, adding £4M to the overall debt, which led to a ‘conflict of interest’ charge to their governing body which in turn led to the judge delaying his judgement into Duff and Phelps ‘conflict of interest’. Lord Hodge has now been promoted himself so it is likely that there never will be a judgement regarding this.

Players publicly blackmailed into taking huge pay cuts to ensure the club made it to the end of the season.

National Association taken to court to over ruling and the panel are threatened and intimidated.

An investigation into dual contracts delayed for almost one year to allow vital information to disappear or simply be destroyed.

National Associations own rules broken and ignored on the altar of political expediency to benefit one club.

Intimidation of fellow clubs and their employees is now common place.

Assets sold off at a fraction of their realistic value to ensure a club continues, putting assets beyond the reach of creditors, which seems similar to what Craig Whyte was banned for doing when he was a director.

A MSM that is completely out of its depth and incapable of getting the basic facts of this story correct more than TWO years into it.

An independent panel into dual contracts, NOT EBT’s as the media would have us believe, finds RFC guilty of a systematic failure to properly register players over 10 years but due to the collusion of the National Association and their arbitrary interpretation of the rules there is essentially no punishment.

We are yet again being told that the only way we can fix our national sports ills is to unjustly promote the club that ruined it in the first place.

SFA President has now been involved with two clubs one of whom collapsed while the other teeters on the brink and yet he is still described as a ‘great administrator’.

Chief Executives of both SFA and SPL attempt to bully their own clubs into making illegal decisions, with regard to their own rules, in an attempt to shoe horn a new club into the top tier of Scottish football.

Would you rush to invest your hard earned cash watching something as transparently corrupt or incompetent?

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whulliePosted on2:23 am - Mar 10, 2013


Still on the supposed free ticket issue but a slightly different argument.

My “blue shirted” friend argued the point today that the tickets featured in the picture that is circulating are for the club deck and are pre paid hence the £0.00 price printed on them.

It was my contention that your ticket is also a receipt (should you need one) and as such, should have the cost printed on it. Pre paid or not?

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FinlochPosted on8:57 am - Mar 10, 2013


“Im truly embarrassed to be a Bairn”. From Alex Smith in the Daily Record.
Smith said: “If the right changes to the structure of the game aren’t made soon then I fear for the future”.

“We don’t have two years to wait for Rangers to move through the leagues as they stand then rejoin the top flight”.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

This was no random comment solicited from a previously non-involved person.
In the run up to the seismic changes that the 5 way signatories are about to dump on us we’ll see others like Alec coming out of the woodwork to help the cause.
We are in play and we’ll be bombarded by a coordinated MSM telling us to be grateful that The Sevco Cavalry are coming to the rescue of Scottish Football.
And we’ll see lots more of Jim Traynor’s pals like Alec coming out of the woodwork to provide pithy support for their “golden” plan.
Football men, money men like Patey and politicians too no doubt.

Regan, Ogilvie, Doncaster, Longmuir and their pals know best after all.

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mirrenmanPosted on9:10 am - Mar 10, 2013


Update on ” Ticketgate ” 😉

St.Mirren statement http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=21392

“…..We have now been informed that we are being given a further 1,200 initial allocation of debenture seats in the South Stand (Upper) but unfortunately these are priced at £30 with no child concessions. There is also a further 900 tickets in this area that will be made available should these be required.

However considering all parties felt this would be ‘The Family Final’ we are being left with no further child tickets.

Therefore anyone buying a ticket in this section for a Child should retain the ticket and we will give them a free Child ticket for the SPL match with Celtic on 31st March. Those buying Adult tickets in this section will get an adult ticket for the Celtic match for £10 to make up for the extra cost.”

At least St.Mirren are trying to do something to make up for this decision to take 3500 tickets away from us ( tickets that had child o.a.p concessions )
Could they not have waited until after our home game yesterday.

(this was original seating )
http://www.saintmirren.net/images/scottish_communities_league_cup_final_2013_seating.jpg

I despair at the people running our game 🙁

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angus1983Posted on9:38 am - Mar 10, 2013


whullie says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 02:23

My “blue shirted” friend argued the point today that the tickets featured in the picture that is circulating are for the club deck and are pre paid hence the £0.00 price printed on them.

It was my contention that your ticket is also a receipt (should you need one) and as such, should have the cost printed on it. Pre paid or not?
——

That’s what I was getting at when I suggested they were “hospitality” tickets” for the Club Deck. You buy your hosp package, and get a wad of tickets to hand out to your guests. It would be unseemly to have a price on them if they’re effectively a “gift” to your clients..

As for Alex Smith – does he not realise that crowds are decreasing because of the TRFC situation, not despite it? I suspect he (or his ghostwriter) does, but the propaganda machine is now in full flow.

If the ploy works – though the Scotsman piece yesterday seemed fairly certain that TRFC were not to be specially treated according to the new SPFL rulebook – stop laughing at the back there – and TRFC are punted up the Leagues, then wait til he sees the crowd figures next season …

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FIFAPosted on10:02 am - Mar 10, 2013


MIRRENMAN
I despair at the people ruining our game.
fixed that for you

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ecobhoyPosted on10:04 am - Mar 10, 2013


mirrenman says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 09:10

Update on ” Ticketgate ” 😉

St.Mirren statement http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=21392

“…..We have now been informed that we are being given a further 1,200 initial allocation of debenture seats in the South Stand (Upper) but unfortunately these are priced at £30 with no child concessions. There is also a further 900 tickets in this area that will be made available should these be required.

However considering all parties felt this would be ‘The Family Final’ we are being left with no further child tickets. Therefore anyone buying a ticket in this section for a Child should retain the ticket and we will give them a free Child ticket for the SPL match with Celtic on 31st March. Those buying Adult tickets in this section will get an adult ticket for the Celtic match for £10 to make up for the extra cost.”

At least St.Mirren are trying to do something to make up for this decision to take 3500 tickets away from us ( tickets that had child o.a.p concessions )
——————————————————————————————————-

I think St Mirren must be congratulated on their attempts to reduce the burden on fans but it’s ridiculous that being in a final should cost the club money and shows just how totally out of touch the SFA is with the grass roots of Scottish Football.

When the leaders of any organisation are so aloof from reality I usually find they are being paid far too much and have no concept of the financial sacrifices that all ordinary football fans make to follow their teams.

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jonnyodPosted on10:05 am - Mar 10, 2013


So Alex ,you are telling all us hard of thinking football fans that we better just shut up and sit back and leave the running of our game to the likes of you and our great administrators .
Just how did that pan out last time Alex ,is that not why we are where we are .
At the mercy of TV companies coercing the ditching of sporting fairness (allegedly) .For a fraction of the deal we could have had if they had not backed the Settanta horse .
Where the man at the very top was into hawk (so they tell us ) to the tune of a good night out of the club who broke the rules for over a decade ,of which he was employed with said club .
You are now advocating we just place the newest club in Scotland straight into the top division to challenge Celtic and just what would be acceptable to you Alex to ensure this club beaten yesterday 2-1 at home by mighty Annan a part time team in the 3rd div .
Since you are all for throwing away the rules ,what about 5 goals of a start for sevco in every game ,would that be enough Alex too allow sevco to challenge Celtic .

I will do a deal with you Alex I will go along with your great idea but only if you and the great administrators promise to tell me and the rest of the honest football fans when you will be allowing our clubs to win anything as you must realise that you can,t allow sevco to win the league every year (not good for competitive ) then we can just go off and do something else on the seasons you have earmarked for sevco success .

I really is disturbing that clowns like AS find it ok to just come straight out with this opinion in a National paper with now care of the implications for our game .IMO just another nail in the coffin of Scottish football

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jonnyodPosted on10:08 am - Mar 10, 2013


sorry for the obvious errors in the above had a long night 🙂

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paulmac2Posted on10:20 am - Mar 10, 2013


First we have Longmuir punting the (unfair) promotion of one club….now Alex Smith is rolled out to punt the (unfair) promotion….who is next…

Who is the target audience? fans of every other club?

Why do certain people in Scottish football believe it is necessary that a NEW club not 12 months old who have been threatening…intimidating..bullying and generally attacking Scottish football should be unfairly promoted?

The same NEW club who have publicly stated they want to leave Scottish football….who want nothing to do the SPL or top tier? The same club who publicly attacked Dundee Utd…The same club who publicly called the SFA corrupt? The same club who have been found telling lies regards the Dallas cowboys…partnership schemes etc etc..

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jimlarkinPosted on10:22 am - Mar 10, 2013


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/-/1085765/?

egyptian football fans set fire to the football headquarters !!!!

Hmmmmm

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ecobhoyPosted on10:47 am - Mar 10, 2013


Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 01:10

The SPL could also ask FIFA if they share and accept the alternative interpretation accepted by Bryson re registration and ineligibility and if they will be rewriting their rules to remove any ambiguity.

I also have to say that the parallel between proving there were no weapons of mass destruction when there were none and using the absence of proof as a justification for what came next is quite striking. e.g in the absence of proof of any sporting advantage we have to accept there was none is no different from in the absence of proof you have no wmds we believe because you cannot orove otherwise that there are some. It is a logic that suits the end purpose.
======================================================================

Discussing war in Iraq and weapons of mass destruction are all very emotive but hardly on a par with the squalid little bout of cheating at the top levels of the football administration in a tiny country.

There were no WMD in Iraq and the only evidence of them appears to have been manufactured and I think most people agree with that.

IMO I’m afraid you have totally missed the point. I have never ever stated that evidence wasn’t available that could have altered the LNS Decision. On the contrary, I think there was an abundance of evidence that could have been called but it wasn’t. The sole responsibility for bringing evidence to support the ‘charges’ was down to the SPL.

They failed dismally in this regard either through gross incompetence or corruption or a mixture of both. I have in a number of previous posts gone into my reasoning in detail which may or might not be correct but it is how I came to make my judgements which weren’t made on my wishful thinking of what should have happened.

I can only look at what appears to have happened from the LNS Decision – it is most unfortunate that we don’t have a detailed transcript of the submissions of Mure & McKenzie but, as I have stated before, I think the main reason for that is to spare the embarrassment of the utterly shambolic SPL case being exposed for what it actually was.

In retrospect that ‘courtesy’ to his legal brethern was IMO a major mistake by LNS and his two colleagues but I understand why they did it and it happens every day in courts across the land to protect the legal system – but that is another argument and I don’t believe it affected the actual Decision in any way.

So I reject your comment that I have ever said or given the impression that: ‘In the absence of proof of any sporting advantage we have to accept there was none’. That is just so far from the truth that I don’t know whether to laugh or cry because we will get nowhere by misrepresenting the position of people like myself are disappointed with the conduct of the affair.

Where I differ is not to blame some Establishment cabal or Conspiracy of the Justiciary for what went wrong but to lay it at the door of the SPL & SFA and, at the end of the day, I don’t actually blame McKenzie as the SPL should have known how the case was being prepared and have spotted the glaring holes in it. Or did they just wash their hands of it and let McKenzie muddle-on with no direction so that he could be another convenient scapegoat if needed.

As I have said before it was obvious that LNS was to be the Number 1 scapegoat to deflect attention away from the SPL & SFA machinations but any reasonable attempt to read and understand the Decison will find it hard IMO to find actual fault it.

And it really isn’t good enough to declare it a load of sh*te just because it wasn’t what was expected or hoped for. It is what it is and was based on the evidence submitted and not, unfortunately, on the evidence which should have been submitted.

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valentinesclownPosted on10:54 am - Mar 10, 2013


Why do we never here of any ex footballer or pundit actually being critical of trangers?
Why is it aways and only the fans who want sporting integrity.
Why are all the spl clubs not questioning the LNS decision yet.
Why do we spend our money on a corrupt sport and get no support from our governing body or MSM.
I think the answer is we live in Scotland and one club rules at ANY cost.
This issue with LNS has got to be dealt with away from corrupt wee country.

Football has been a major part of my life even though I felt in the past one club seemed to be favoured. Now I know this to be true and if it is not challenged it is the end.
People like Alex Smith should have no place in any sport.

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loamfeetPosted on11:13 am - Mar 10, 2013


ecobhoy says:

Discussing war in Iraq and weapons of mass destruction are all very emotive but hardly on a par with the squalid little bout of cheating at the top levels of the football administration in a tiny country.

===========================================================

Isn’t that the crux of the problem, though. It is easy to stay incensed and motivated about some of the wrongs perpetrated by the government and others, whereas this provincial bowls club management by nod-and-wink will eventually seem irrelevant to people.

It’s like those quiz nights when there is one guy so furious about a quiz master’s bad calls that he storms out saying, “ahm no comin’ back.” The Scottish football authorities are playing the guy who responds, “aye, he’ll be back next week.” They can keep saying that and most of the time, for most of the people, they will be right. But over time, as the preposterousness of the bad decisions stack up, more and more people will stay home and put on the telly instead.

After all, it’s only a daft wee quiz show run by corrupt bampots out of the local boozer.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:17 am - Mar 10, 2013


Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 00:40

Bryson did not have to accept that the alternative interpretation met the spirit of the rule. He could have said that the alternative interpretation was valid in literal terms but if accepted would result in a totally different understanding of what the registration rule was intended to do. He could have rejected that alternative interpretation but chose not to. Was he right to do so? That is for football authority to decide, not Bryson.

Bryson did not reject the alternative and that gave it an authority that it would not otherwise have had but one LNS had to give weight to. Maybe the SPL should have asked Bryson beforehand if he would argue against the interpretation, maybe it never occured to them that such an interpretation that would suit the outcome sought would be presented, but now that the alterantive has been accepted it either has to be applied to all football or rejected as breaking the intent of the regiostration rules as well as the golden rule.

That is a FIFA decsion and it should be put to them.
==================================================================

I am slightly confused here and I wonder if you have mixed Bryson and McKenzie up? On the basis that where you state ‘Bryson’ you mean ‘McKenzie’ I would say that McKenzie didn’t need to accept Bryson’s interpretation but if he didn’t then he would need to have certainly questioned Bryson very closely on the matter especially with regard to Scottish registration precedents and also those of other football associations as well as FIFA.

McKenzie should also have ascertained whether this was a personal opinion of Bryson or whether it was one which had been previously discussed by the SFA and the position agreed upon as policy.

McKenzie should have known of Bryson’s or the SFA’s position on the matter as it should have been ascertained at the preparatory stages of the SPL building their case. If no one established the position of Bryson and/or SFA prior to the actual hearing then that is a shocker because if their position couldn’t be successfully opposed then that section of the ‘charges’ should have been dropped. It really is as simple as that.

But even at the Hearing when it emerged – if it hadn’t previously – McKenzie should have been in a position to get an expert to refute the Bryson/SFA position as the noinsense it actually is, But it appears there was no attempt to do so. The question that begas to be asked is WHY NOT?

The legal costs for preparing the case and presenting it are significant, especially for the financially hard-pressed SPL, and it appears ordinary football fans might have been better-served just by an ordinary football-loving lawyer who undersood the game and who could think on their feet.

The rule books must be changed to reflect not just the now-established legal position but the reality of the SPL & SFA registration policies. I see the Golden Rule mentioned and all I will say is that it comes into play to prevent perverse legal decisions – there is absolutely nothing perverse about the LNS decision as it is logically based on the evidence presented. Had the evidence been different then I have no doubt the Decision would have been very different but it wasn’t and that is down solely to the SPL and did not lie within the remit of LNS.

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smartbhoyPosted on11:23 am - Mar 10, 2013


gus1983 says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 09:38
15 0 Rate This
whullie says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 02:23

My “blue shirted” friend argued the point today that the tickets featured in the picture that is circulating are for the club deck and are pre paid hence the £0.00 price printed on them.

It was my contention that your ticket is also a receipt (should you need one) and as such, should have the cost printed on it. Pre paid or not?
——

That’s what I was getting at when I suggested they were “hospitality” tickets” for the Club Deck. You buy your hosp package, and get a wad of tickets to hand out to your guests. It would be unseemly to have a price on them if they’re effectively a “gift” to your clients..

As for Alex Smith – does he not realise that crowds are decreasing because of the TRFC situation, not despite it? I suspect he (or his ghostwriter) does, but the propaganda machine is now in full flow.

If the ploy works – though the Scotsman piece yesterday seemed fairly certain that TRFC were not to be specially treated according to the new SPFL rulebook – stop laughing at the back there – and TRFC are punted up the Leagues, then wait til he sees the crowd figures next season …

____________________________________

Why have a price on them at all??

Is it not more unseemly that they have the price of £0.00 on them instead of £50.00.

In my eyes it would come across as you’d received the tickets for free and were handing them out as if you’d paid for them.

The tickets are free and have been getting handed out regularly since the start of the season to various individuals and companies who haD used the hospitality or had season tickets with RFC(IL).

Though it doesn’t seem to be working, even with free tickets.

Yesterday, There is no way the attendance was above 40,000 and the previous home game the attendance was annouced as 44k+…….My arse, it was lucky if it was 40,000.

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smartbhoyPosted on11:31 am - Mar 10, 2013


Yesterdays attendance v Annan….. 34,441. Ooops.

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angus1983Posted on11:41 am - Mar 10, 2013


Smartbhoy – no idea. Perhaps “complimentary” tickets as part of a package aren’t counted in the “tickets sold” column, rather their non-face value being included in the price of hiring an executive box. No point having a separate computer system to print comp tickets, so just set the face value to 0.00 for ones which go out as part of a hospitality package – that way their value doesn’t get added into the “ticket receipts” column?

We often hear that the discrepancy between reported and police crowd sizes is due to “hospitality” numbers. Which is strange, I know.

Pure guesswork on my part, of course, just trying to reason it out. I just can’t see that TRFC are handing out thousands of free tickets and the fact isn’t better known.

How many companies like Brenda’s mate’s get 100 tickets delivered every game, and for what reason?

Does Mr Green give the teaboy a couple of thousand tickets and send him round local businesses handing them out? If they’re straight seat-filling freebies, the story would be out there with those sort of quantities – there would be bound to be CFC fans in those workplaces who would let everyone else know quickly enough.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:46 am - Mar 10, 2013


loamfeet says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:13

It’s like those quiz nights when there is one guy so furious about a quiz master’s bad calls that he storms out saying, “ahm no comin’ back.” The Scottish football authorities are playing the guy who responds, “aye, he’ll be back next week.” They can keep saying that and most of the time, for most of the people, they will be right. But over time, as the preposterousness of the bad decisions stack up, more and more people will stay home and put on the telly instead.

After all, it’s only a daft wee quiz show run by corrupt bampots out of the local boozer.
—————————————————————————————————————

Tbh the bampots in my local boozer would make a better fist of running Scottish Football than what we currently have and at least the mistakes they made would be honest ones and understandable because they would need to answer to them and therefore be accountable.

However, most people do keep coming back and if they keep moaning then you get that curious closing of ranks of the others which you see in a shop when someone is complaining about something to a shop assistant. Fellow shoppers start averting eyes and don’t want involved and don’t support the complainer because to do so would mean that they too were patsies by accepting shoddy service or merchandise.

But I agree with you that over time the trickle grows as the complainers give-up or move on and if they don’t they end-up bitter and twisted in many ways and are generally avoided by others frightened by the messianic gleam in their eyes 🙂

Scottish Football is in decline because of falling attendance numbers and there are many reasons for that which is worthy of a separate topic in itself but perhaps not because I don’t think the decline will be halted until there are a lot less full-time clubs and all clubs are able manage their financial affairs responsibly.

At the moment the biggest danger to Scottish Football IMO is the continuing economic recession which is making it harder and harder for ordinary fans to justify spending the money required to follow their sport. It hits in other ways as well in the cancellation of Sky and the likes – not because of football principles but to pay the mortgage/rent, buy food and heat the house. When Sky sees it customer base shrink in Scotland then it will cut the TV money available for football.

I think it inevitable that Celtic and Rangers will be forced out of Scottish Football through financial necessity although I am sure that each will leave second teams behind as ‘feeders’ and also to provide extra income through a more utilised stadium at lower prices which might help build a new customer base. There is no doubt that the Rangers £200 STs have brought a lot of new and younger supporters to Ibrox, Whether the quality of football on offer or the desperate need for the club to increase prices will see them remain is another matter.

It’s certainly obvious that Rangers fan sites are growing very unhappy at the football on offer and results like Annan obviously fuel this with lots of talk about people walking away because the product is sh*te. Some might believe they won’t but if Green is unable to whip them into a frenzy about perceived injustices and they are left to concentrate and contemplate the football on offer then I would think they will be demanding a helluva big spend on players. But again that’s another issue.

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willmacufreePosted on11:50 am - Mar 10, 2013


34k+ is a terrific crowd for a 4th tier game by any standards.

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smartbhoyPosted on11:51 am - Mar 10, 2013


angus1983 says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:41
___________________________________

How many companies like Brenda’s mate’s get 100 tickets delivered every game, and for what reason?

___________________________________

I don’t believe that for a moment, Angus. I would assume if Brenda is being honest with this information then her friend is telling her porkies, Absolutely no way that’s happening.

I have first hand information though of a ex-season ticket holder receiving 5 tickets in the mail. I never enquired about the pricing on them.

I have first hand information of a Sales engineer ( Celtic fan) who used to take his clients to the hospitality receiving 10 free tickets in the mail.

I’ve read of many other cases of free tickets being received randomly online, but never more than 10 tickets.

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smartbhoyPosted on11:53 am - Mar 10, 2013


willmacufree says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:50
0 0 Rate This
34k+ is a terrific crowd for a 4th tier game by any standards.
——————————————

It sure is…especially for a match at 3pm on a Saturday and not televised. Also having 38K season ticket holders and various levels of free tickets being sent out randomly. 🙂

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BrendaPosted on12:12 pm - Mar 10, 2013


I’m sorry you don’t believe me 🙁 and there is no way I can prove it to you but my relative has been receiving these tickets since the beginning of the season for every 3rd division game at ibrox ( not cup games surprisingly) but I’m sure the truth will come out some day and I’m sure their workplace is not the only recipient of these freebies, please don’t make them any more deluded than they already are 🙂 green is takin the p*** and they are allowing it 🙂 let them 🙂

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bobferrisPosted on12:17 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Neil Warnock just been on Goals on Sunday saying that he signed Charles Green for Gainsborough and that he never ran beyond the penalty box. Thought Charles was a top runner? They showed the goals from the Annan game followed by the usual ignorance from Alan Curbishley who said he couldn’t work out why they are down there. I’m sure he’s done exhaustive research on the issues.

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AuldheidPosted on12:20 pm - Mar 10, 2013


ecobhoy says:

Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:17

I’ll not try to argue on whether the LNS decision is correct in the circumstances he arrived at his conclusion, indeed I understand your points but the potential consequences of that decision are I believe as stated in The Golden Rule blog in terms of how clubs could approach registration in the future.

As such I think the case should be drawn to FIFA’s attention for guidance on how all associations rules should be rewritten to avoid a repeat and in so doing to comment on the interpretation LNS was bound to follow. If Bryson has understood and interpreted the basic FIFA rule properly then end of story.

If he has not then the LNS findings although based on what he was given become flawed. That does not mean a revisit, just that it becomes official in football terms that a cock up got Rangers out of a serious charge. Individual’s will decide for themselves on whether it was incompetence or deliberate.

If the LNS findings on registration are then undermined so too is his judgement on no sporting advantage gained which appears to be based on not being provided with evidence that Rangers had benefitted.

The idea of a ten points deduction came from the concept that a club who entered administration had used money to pay players that should have gone to creditors and so gained a sportinfg advantage for which a points deduction was applied.

No one as far as I know has said “prove it” it just seems self evident. Yet LNS as far as I understood it said no proof of sporting advantage had been supplied. If that is the case Rangers could now argue they should never had a ten points deduction when they entered administration. Is that now what folk will argue? Hardly I think. Thus LNS based on the info supplied by the SPL and SFA has arrived at a judgement that undermines two of football’s key rules to deter skullduggery.

That Rangers broke the rules is self evident and a construct on the way the rules were written benefitted them is pretty evident too. However even if it were agreed The Golden Rule should apply I have no doubt a construct would then be produced that required yet more suspension of belief on part of the man in the street about what constitutes a payment or what makes a player ineligible to play.

However in terms of what needs to be done in order to regulate football re registration and sporting advantage then FIFA in my view need to be involved lest the SFA have unwittingly drawn a horse and cart through two key football governing principles.

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coineanachantaighePosted on12:35 pm - Mar 10, 2013


ratethisthenyabampots says:
Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 23:58

I’m truly embarrassed to be a Bairn. From Alex Smith in the Daily Record.
=======================================================

This the same non-sequitur we’ve seen in several papers. How does it follow that the attendances of Falkirk (for instance) will go up if Rangers Mk II are fast tracked to the SPL? I struggle to remember a season in the past years when Falkirk’s attendances were influenced by them being in the SPL (can’t remember when Falkirk were last in the SPL).

And this goes for every team outside the SPL — and even then, figures have been given on this site which show (apart maybe from Celtic) that the loss of Rangers has had minimal effect. Why do they persist in these lies?

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FIFAPosted on12:37 pm - Mar 10, 2013


As the song goes “There must be trouble ahead”for the very first time this season the SSB pundits never mentioned the BIG crowd at Ibrox yesterday ,I seriously hope this was season ticket holders and not paying customers that where not in attendance as every penny is a prisoner,when these missing fans are visiting their Mothers today will you please ask her for a note explaining why .
Thank You

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TartawulverPosted on12:41 pm - Mar 10, 2013


bobferris70 says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 12:17

They showed the goals from the Annan game followed by the usual ignorance from Alan Curbishley who said he couldn’t work out why they are down there. I’m sure he’s done exhaustive research on the issues.
—————————————————–
Maybe Curbishley is anticipating a managerial vacancy he can apply for soon and so is being diplomatic

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dentarthurdent42Posted on12:49 pm - Mar 10, 2013


willmacufree says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:50

34k+ is a terrific crowd for a 4th tier game by any standards.

——————————————-

It is indeed.

However from a financial perspective it really depends how many of that 34,000 are season ticket holders, who have already paid, and how many of the remainder are complementaries.

There could be a very low number who actually paid to get into that specific game.

if it were to continue like that the financial results at the end of the season could be very bad indeed. With losing at home to Annan Athletic and from what I have heard and read deservedly so the numbers could drop further.

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jimlarkinPosted on12:58 pm - Mar 10, 2013


chipsandblog says:
Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 23:35

I do not want the rules applied to everybody fairly, I want the corruption and collusion to be open for all to see.

TRFC, the pretendy Rangers shoulf get 5 points a win. For me, this would be fairer, everybody would know what they are up against

=====================================================================

TRFC, the pretendy Rangers shoulf get 5 points a win
. . .an obligitary penalty
. . . and an opposition player sent off in every game that sevco go behind in

For me, this would be fairer, everybody would know what they are up against

[fixed that for you] !!

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angus1983Posted on1:01 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Another Smith writing in the papers today, this time our old mate Andrew at Scotland on Sunday, in his Stramash column:


“Old Charles Green could have been kinder to his manager Ally McCoist last week. Instead of calling the current Ibrox side the club’s “worst”, the Ibrox chief executive might equally have described them as the “best”.

When it comes to Rangers there is one, and only one, team.

Although, having announced a year-one £7 million loss, Green’s Rangers continue to do their best to remain true to the old club’s great traditions.”

Andrew Smith is always a good source of fun-poking at TRFC, usually couched in such a way that the average orc just won’t understand what he means. 🙂

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AuldheidPosted on1:04 pm - Mar 10, 2013


bobferris70 says:

Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 12:17

Pity they never asked Neil Warnock about sporting advantage as he was the one who helped bring about the 10 point deduction clause.

Leicester City – When Leicester restructured their debt after going into administration in 2002, they gained promotion to the Premiership, at the expense of Sheffield United, who had to make do with a play-off place. After United failed to gain promotion Warnock revealed his anger at the Leicester situation. Incensed that City could have got into such a state yet continued to compete at the top of the table, with no punishment, Warnock complained to the press, claiming United should have Leicester’s place in the Premiership and the club should have been relegated or booted out the League.

http://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Neil_Warnock.html

The ten points deduction came about in 2004/2005

The deductions of 10 points in the Football League and 9 points in the Premier League were ratified in 2004, with the rule in place from the start of the 2004–05 season.[12][13] The League also adopted rules that prevented any side from being in administration for either two successive seasons or eighteen consecutive months.[14] The reason for the deduction being a point less in the Premier League was due to the fact that the teams play eight fewer fixtures than Football League clubs.[13] The first club to incur this new penalty were League One side Wrexham F.C. who entered administration on 3 December 2004.[14]

In Scotland, following the adoption of a points sanction in the English Football League, a similar rule was mooted in December 2003.[15] It was announced in January 2004 that Scottish Premier League clubs going into administration in the 2004–05 season would be subject to a 10 point deduction and be prevented from signing new players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(British_football)

Thus it can be seen that the idea of a points deduction was based on deterring a club from getting into a bad financial state and still benefit from it giving them unfair sporting advantage.

The jury is still out on if ebts did this until UTT rules.

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AuldheidPosted on1:14 pm - Mar 10, 2013


ecobhoy says:

Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:46

This backs up what you said from an English perspective.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21713435

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AuldheidPosted on1:23 pm - Mar 10, 2013


ecobhoy says:

Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 10:47

Re my wmd reference. I did not mean it was your point, I meant it was the kind of thinking that allowed LNS to reach his decision. No one can prove that something that does not exist does not exist. It was a clever little bit of mind play used to justify a war.

Had a few rums before I posted that point last night and not sure if I made it as clear as I intended but at no time did I think the point came from you. Never entered my head.

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on3:05 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 13:23

No one can prove that something that does not exist does not exist.

“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
LNS and common sense?

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Sugar DaddyPosted on3:14 pm - Mar 10, 2013


The fix is on.

First Longmuir and now, laughably, that great commentator on sporting matters, Alex Smith.

There will be others. The message will be the same.

“Scottish football will die unless Sevco are in SPL.”

I think what they really mean is after posting a £7m loss in 7 months it is Sevco that will die if not in the SPL next season.

Scottish football is simply being fixed. In plain sight. With no shame.

Disgrace.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on3:18 pm - Mar 10, 2013


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Blindsummit63Posted on3:18 pm - Mar 10, 2013


More shocking officiating at the Edinburgh Derby today. Thank god we have the SFA looking after such standards for the good of the game.

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pau1mart1nPosted on3:41 pm - Mar 10, 2013


the standard of refereeing has obviously fallen due to the lack of sevco in the spl.
if only hugh was still in charge.
on an unrelated topic- has jim ever shut his gob for this long in the past ??
not actually complaining but maybe someone who cares could submit a missing person report.

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jonnyodPosted on3:43 pm - Mar 10, 2013


IMO there is no point in looking for sound reason in the LNS inquiry unless you remember which club was involved ,then it all makes perfect sense .
Everyone and their granny knew ragers were guilty ,what sevco fans did not want was to be found fielding ineligible players and therefore cheating on the field of play.
Hey presto the SFA put up the biggest and most ludicrous defence for ragers in the history of the game .We are of course to believe that this inquiry has been ongoing for a year with the SFA/SPL
just a floor apart and the SPL had no idea that the SFA held this opinion on the registration rules .

If the crowd was as low as some are saying ,has anyone picked up on this being the first home game after CGs declaration of banning the bigots and the friends ,maybe 4,000 just thought they could not trust themselves to keep quiet and did not fancy a weekend lie in at the local nick

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albabhoyPosted on3:54 pm - Mar 10, 2013


No doubt some succulent Lamb eater will say the reason for falling crowds in the English football league is because Sevco are no loonger in the SPL:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21713435

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jonnyodPosted on3:56 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Sorry was the crowd 34,000 that would probably be a drop of say 14,000 maybe the rest were the bigots pals who did not fancy a ban for keeping quiet

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TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)Posted on4:05 pm - Mar 10, 2013


tomtomaswell says:
Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 21:18
dentarthurdent42 says:
Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 19:27
Remember for a criminal conviction guilt must be proven beyond reasonable doubt, a tribunal however is on a balance of probabilities
===========================================
If that’s the case then it makes the findings in these cases even more absurd.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“Exaggerated epithets, unqualified assertion on doubtful points, sophisticated reasoning and foggy declamation”. 

This describes a schooling in deception and sophistry, nowadays called ‘spin’

Exaggerated epithet. Advocate and Sheriff Donald Booker-Milburn, rejecting a claim that a Statutory Instrument required to be published, i.e. printed and sold according to the Statutory Instruments Act 1946 definition of ‘published’, wrote in his Stated Case “the appellant reminded me of Humpty Dumpty, claiming that ‘words should mean what I say they mean, when I say them’.

Unqualified assertion. Courts are very fond of the phrase ‘We are in no doubt whatsoever that the appellant’s arguments are utterly without merit’. Alternatively substitute ‘worthless’, ‘groundless’, ‘illogical’, ‘fanciful’, ‘irrelevant’ and more of that ilk.

‘Sophisticated reasoning’ must also be called cynical arrogance of self-interest, or corruption of decency using false logic.

‘Foggy declamation’ is simply padding out a dirty deed with general dismissals of dubious relationship to the topic at hand. All the above are the stock in trade of the Faculty of Advocates, without special polishing in a school of persuasion. The power of persuasion is, after all, an occult power. Occult simply means concealed, kept secret, esoteric, mysterious, recondite or outwith the range of ordinary knowledge – arcane for the profane.

Page 52 of the History of the Speculative Society under indications of the debating techniques one can expect when faced with a Member of the Spec.

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whispererPosted on4:33 pm - Mar 10, 2013


For what it’s worth … most of my pals/fellow CFC fans are slowly but surely starting to change and to state that “IF” TRFC get shoehorned anywhere other than whatever league is immediately above them come next season they are “Chucking It ”

Strange BUT True

So ah reckon ALL of Scottish Fitba better BEWARE !!!

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troubledfanPosted on4:40 pm - Mar 10, 2013


go to the pub, your stadium, at work , listen to the football “fans” for christ sake !!
the reason they are deserting the game is the corruption.. why pay to watch a “fixed” product?

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bobferrisPosted on4:52 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Are people saying the con is on re Longmuir referring to his preference of 10-10 at the bottom? Because I actually agree with him that 10-10 is far better than an 18. A bigger bottom division would be fine with three play off places and two dropping out into non league but the pyramid will take years to set up, if it ever happens at all. The leagues of ten do work. I thought having play offs for a league of ten initially was farcical but it does sustain interest with hardly any meaningless matches. An 18 could see the really small sides have no realistic promotion hopes season after season and no incentive to avoid relegation. And can anyone deny that Rangers would be very unfortunate to still be in the bottom tier next season (although I’d get over it!)

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angus1983Posted on4:53 pm - Mar 10, 2013


jonnyod says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 15:43

If the crowd was as low as some are saying …
——

Reported as just under 34.5K in SoS today.

Strangely, the chaps over at RM were discussing who was going to the game before the weekend. On Friday, they were saying there were only 1600 tickets left, so people better hurry up and buy. Doesn’t seem to match the official attendance figure at all.

Estimates of between 39K and 45K from folk that were there (with 48K tickets/STs sold apparently).

Also:

“I keep hearing about the tickets with £0.00 on them are they photoshopped etc well I had two yesterday they were comps from the rangers soccer school for my wee boy so they are perfectly legit. But he couldn’t attend so I had two tickets I couldn’t even give away yesterday I asked numerous bears and all said no thanks.”

whisperer: and even then they should only get shoehorned into the next league up if reconstruction doesn’t properly leave them in the bottom league!

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Lord WobblyPosted on4:58 pm - Mar 10, 2013


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/revealed-bayern-munich-season-ticket-1752700

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justshateredPosted on5:00 pm - Mar 10, 2013


I see Jim Leishman is now talking about liquidation for Dunfermline.

The media are all over it like a rash saying ‘we told you so’ this is what happens when ‘The Rangers’ are not in the top division. However if we look at this a bit further then Dunfermline were relegated last season, rightly or wrongly, but the point is ‘The Rangers’ being in the SPL would have made no difference to Dunfermline’s current plight.

If you also notice it is not a ‘holding’ company that is under threat here but the club. Stranger and stranger!

Now while I do not wish Dunfermline ill this is to me the true ‘Armageddon’ scenario for our sport in this country. Due to the precedents set last summer there is a simple route for Dunfermline out of this and if that is not allowed by the powers that be then they should simply go to court to enforce it.

However the ‘Armageddon’ issue now runs far deeper.
Who will grant credit, or pay up terms for a player, to a Scottish club now?

Clubs will find credit severely restricted, or worse withdrawn altogether, which will send another shockwave through the various leagues. This in turn will drag other clubs into the mire.

We are now witnessing the true fall out from last summer’s illegal activity. I prophesised back then the dangers of the actions being taken at that time and the potential financial repercussion that could follow. While clubs must take responsibility for financially over reaching themselves the blame for this removal of credit can also be laid at the Hampden door as this domino effect gathers pace.

At this rate the ‘great administrator’ may have nothing left to administer. Thanks again Campbell.

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andyPosted on5:18 pm - Mar 10, 2013


smartbhoy says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:53
18 0 Rate This
willmacufree says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:50
0 0 Rate This
34k+ is a terrific crowd for a 4th tier game by any standards.
——————————————

It sure is…especially for a match at 3pm on a Saturday and not televised. Also having 38K season ticket holders and various levels of free tickets being sent out randomly

_____________
funny how first game after charlie showing off on talksport saying if we say 45k its 45k in the ground 11k go missing

,there was far less than the 45k stated in the attendance at last weeks early KO game
i think charleys granstanding has caught up with him as he will have to release actual attendance now not tickets issued

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bobferrisPosted on5:33 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Go to youtube, enter Rangers Annan Part Three and enjoy the second half. You can see hundreds of empty seats just in the bottom sections that are visible; 34,441 seems fair enough to me. Also quite funny to hear the commentator say “Annan are on the ropes” at 1-2, just after Hopkirk almost scored a stunning third!

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bobferrisPosted on5:42 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Should have said thousands not hundreds!

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whulliePosted on6:58 pm - Mar 10, 2013


smartbhoy says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 11:23

gus1983 says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 09:38

whullie says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 02:23

That is exactly my point. A ticket is also a receipt and as such should have a price on it. If it doesn’t, then it is free.

Shapeshifter FC fans are arguing that they are NOT freebies. I say they are and are counted in the attendance totals at Ibrox. The same attendance totals that these fans hold so dear. Which begs a couple of questions.

How many free tickets are issued for any given game?

When is the attendance cup final?

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BrendaPosted on7:23 pm - Mar 10, 2013


It’s anybody’s guess how many free tickets are issued for home games 😉 as said before my relative gets 100 yes 100 handed in to their place of work 🙂 don’t really care if you believe me,I’ve seen them with my own eyes, have even been offered some!!!! 🙂 I politely refused 🙂

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ecobhoyPosted on7:31 pm - Mar 10, 2013


whullie says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 02:23

That is exactly my point. A ticket is also a receipt and as such should have a price on it. If it doesn’t, then it is free.
—————————————————————————

A Darkside discussion about this issue is that the tickets – for whatever reason are free – and therefore by marking the price as £0.00 means they can’t be sold at a profit by anyone who gets one free. I find it hard to argue with that reasoning and also wonder how important the issue is because at some point, if there is a huge amount of freebees, then it will eventually be revealed in the accounts.

It is also clear, again from Rangers fan sites, that ST holders who can’t go to a game find it almost impossible to give their ‘ticket’ away for free.

There is no doubt IMO that for various reasons attendance is falling and a concerted effort to put bums on free seats appears to be failing because the product on display is sh*te and to reverse that will take more money that Green is prepared to spend.

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angus1983Posted on7:33 pm - Mar 10, 2013


whullie – a ticket isn’t a receipt if it’s part of someone hiring an executive box. The receipt will be for the whole package. The tickets are just so guests can come and go, and have a ticket on their person if someone asks for it.

If they’re not issued as either part of a hosp package, or as part of a sponsorship deal (which company is that, Brenda, and do they have anything to do with Ibrox that’s worth 100 tickets a game?) then yeah, freebies.

It’s undoubtedly an interesting thing, and I’m only trying to help get to the bottom of it. I think it’s a good idea to try and keep a balance rather than just accepting an unknown without question.

I am a bit surprised that even RM don’t seem to know much about it.

And there may be nothing sinister in it at all – CFC, remember, gave away 10K free tickets in December, and other clubs run similar wheezes every so often.

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ecobhoyPosted on7:37 pm - Mar 10, 2013


troubledfan says:
Sunday, March 10, 2013 at 16:40

go to the pub, your stadium, at work , listen to the football “fans” for christ sake !!
the reason they are deserting the game is the corruption.. why pay to watch a “fixed” product?
————————————————————————————-

Is that why Rangers fans are deserting the game in their thousands?

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Bill1903Posted on7:38 pm - Mar 10, 2013


Without really wishing to get involved in the freebie ticket debate.
Last year my son paid for me and him to go to hospitality at an EPL game.
My ticket did say £0.00 although it was £120 incl food

(Spent most of the time on my phone seeing who the Dons were not scoring against)

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