Harper Macleod and LNS

A guest blog by Auldheid

In the previous blog (http://www.tsfm.scot/how-not-to-govern-scottish-football/), TSFM wrote to Harper Macleod raising questions on their advice supplied to the then SPL Board in February 2013 when the Lord Nimmo Smith Decision re use of EBTs and side letters was announced.

A reply was received from Mr McKenzie on 18th September the gist of which can be discerned in the following reply sent on 4th October.


Dear Mr McKenzie                                                                                                    4th Oct 2014

Thank you for your response of 18th September to my letter of 5th September regarding the consequences of information on the true nature of EBTs for Craig Moore, Ronald De Boer and Tor Andre Flo being withheld from your good selves when establishing in 2012 the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission into the use of EBTs and side letters by Rangers FC from 1999.

In recognition of the points you made about publishing your responses on line, your letter of 18th September will not be published although readers of TSFM will be able to gather from this reply which is being published what those points were.

Anonymity.
It is a matter of real regret that not only was anonymity required, but that Harper MacLeod were used as a conduit to try and elicit a reply from the SPFL or SFA. In terms of anonymity there were three factors at play:

  1. Security. The individuals asking the questions are aware that any raised concerning Rangers can attract threats from the worst of the Rangers support. We know that they are a minority but nevertheless, as we have recently witnessed, some are ready to turn threat into action. It is a condemnation of Scottish society that fear has played its part in preventing the truth being revealed about Rangers FC’s use of EBTs since 1999.
  2.  

  3. Collective. The Scottish Football Monitor is made up of supporters of many clubs in Scottish football and is in effect a collective. The letters reflect to a large extent the thinking and feelings of the majority of readers. If a name is required for any future correspondence from the SPFL or SFA, then it can be addressed to Mr John Macnab, and a Post Box address can be supplied if necessary in addition to this e mail address press@tsfm.scot.
  4.  

  5. Accountability. The final factor is the most important because it is why Harper Macleod were approached. It was not just because you were responsible for commissioning the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry, but because there is absolutely no form of direct accountability by either the SPFL or the SFA to the supporters of Scottish football clubs. Correspondence can be ignored or the content not fully addressed and the customer who pays the wages of both organisations has no means of redress at all. Had there been some oversight in say an Ombudsman type role, it would not have been necessary to involve Harper MacLeod and indeed your good self. We sincerely apologise for doing so along with our thanks for actually responding to our correspondence, but we would like the reasons for our approach being addressed by the clubs who make up both footballing authorities. We hope you pass this particular point on to both SFA and SPFL.

 

Provenance.
You ask what the provenance is of the information/evidencethat you were given. The answer is we do not know, it was taken from material uploaded mainly in June last year for purposes unknown. Whilst its provenance may be in doubt there is no question as to the veracity of the content of the material itself.

This, when put together, sets out the narrative that prompted our correspondence. This question of provenance simply looks like an excuse for football authority not investigating what the material suggests took place when Duff and Phelps were asked to supply all documents relating to EBTs (no distinction being made) from the inception of the SPL.

Even if the material itself could not be used directly, it should have prompted questions that would have either corrected the narrative or established that the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission was indeed misled either by accident or design, when those documents were not supplied.

The SPFL must surely have the powers to seek the original documents from BDO and the SFA cannot be totally impotent in that regard either.

Then there is the personal knowledge of current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie to draw on. A simple statement explaining why he saw no reason to make any distinction between the irregular DOS REBTs that he launched in 1999 and the later MGMRT EBTs of which he was a beneficiary would surely help clear the air?

Existence of Side Letters.
We note that the Commission were aware of the existence of side letters to Moore, De Boer and Flo at the time of its decision of 28th February 2013 and these were taken into account when determining the appropriate sanction. The existence of side letters is not the issue that was raised in our previous correspondence, it was the nature of the EBTs that was the issue raised. In fact it would seem that the Commission themselves were confused by the switching from the irregular REBT ebts in 2002/03 to the MGMRT EBTs that are subject to further appeal with regard to regularity by HMRC.

The side letters to De Boer and Flo of 30th August and 23 November 2000 related to the DOS REBTs that they were both paid under. It is not known if they had subsequent side letters relating to the MGMRT EBTs , which is possible, but as set out in previous correspondence there were two distinctive types of EBTs and the side letters supplied relate to the earlier irregular type.

The position regarding the Moore EBT is interesting in that whatever EBT side letter was known to the Commission in February 2012 it could only have related to payments made to him under an accompanying side letter from the MGMRT ebts after 2002/03.

That Mr Moore was paid under the REBT scheme in 1999 is a matter of supplied evidence. However there is no record of any side letter in relation to the payment under the 1999 arrangement, which may or may not have been reported in the contract lodged with the SPL and SFA. It was the absence of any side letter in respect of this payment that prevented HMRC pursuing the tax due on it as they did for De Boer and Flo in what has become known as “the wee tax case. “ The evidence of deliberate concealment by the Murray Group of the side letters to De Boer and Flo allowed HMRC to seek repayment outside the normal 6 year time limit.

However the absence of a side letter or tax demand for Mr Moore does not mean this particular payment is not deserving of further scrutiny since

  1. It was an irregular payment that other clubs could not avail themselves of (as applies to the other two EBTs to De Boer and Flo)
  2.  

  3. It is not known if it was reported to the SPL/SFA under the registration rules of that period.

Finally thank you for forwarding our letter of 5th September and previous correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer. Hopefully any further correspondence will be between him and ourselves, first to our email address, later to a PO Box if required.

It is the hope of all readers of The Scottish Football Monitor that the SFA will stop hiding behind the provenance excuse, which is destroying any semblance of integrity and proper governance of Scottish football and they will use their powers to properly acquire the information that will set the record straight and in doing so start to restore some of the lost trust which is essential for the wellbeing of Scottish football.

John Macnab

TSFM

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Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,442 thoughts on “Harper Macleod and LNS


  1. easyJambo says:
    October 30, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    I thought that the boardroom changes may have affected Phil’s inside sources, but they still appear to be there
    ==================================================================

    IMO Phil’s info has more often been wrong than right recently.

    His constant has been that Rangers were a financial basket case…many posters on here worked that one out on the back of a fag packet.


  2. Doc says:
    October 30, 2014 at 6:30 pm
    easyJambo says:
    October 30, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    I thought that the boardroom changes may have affected Phil’s inside sources, but they still appear to be there
    ==================================================================
    IMO Phil’s info has more often been wrong than right recently. His constant has been that Rangers were a financial basket case…many posters on here worked that one out on the back of a fag packet
    ========================================
    The only fag packet that counts is Mike Ashley’s and he probably disnae even smoke.


  3. oh dear !!!!

    ”Mike Ashley has many business interests (including Sports Direct) and they have made him a very wealthy man. When he bought Newcastle United in June 2007 and said “Newcastle attracted me because everyone in England knows that it has the best fans in football… don’t get me wrong. I did not buy Newcastle to make money. I bought Newcastle because I love football.”….it must have sounded like manna from heaven to the Newcastle support as they may have thought more along the lines of ‘Champions League’ rather than ‘Championship’.
    Fast forward to September 2014 and the AGM of Sports Direct. The Daily Mirror journalist Simon Bird rises, “I’d like to address a question to Mr Ashley, please. I wonder if he could explain the benefits to Sports Direct in its relationship with Newcastle United and Rangers.”……..There followed a pause of 27 seconds before MA replied “Other than to say than it’s been beneficial to Sports Direct and therefore its shareholders, I don’t think it’s appropriate to comment.”
    Those twenty seven seconds must have been uncomfortable for Mike Ashley, without his spin-doctor to lend a hand. In fact Ashley hardly ever has any direct dealings with the media, he seems to prefer various conduits of ‘spin’. That said his actual answer seems to have been a manufactured and in effect an elaborate ‘no comment’, an answer that he repeated for the next question.
    There are over 7 years between the “…I love football…” and the AGM quotes provided and they have proved to be uncomfortable for the Newcastle United fans. They’ve went from Adidas to Puma, Northern Rock to Wonga, St.James Park to Sports Direct Arena to St.James, Keegan to Kinnear to Pardew (amongst others), 14th in the Deloittes football rich list to 25th, ‘for sale’ sign put-up, taken down, put-up, taken down, put-up etc and a season in the Championship to boot…..and that is only a fraction of the ‘soap opera’. But for now lets concentrate on what seems to be “beneficial to Sports Direct” and specifically the Commercial Revenue of Newcastle Utd.
    For the purpose of analysis, income/turnover for football clubs is broken down into three categories. 1. Matchday (MD): Simply the income that is generated by tickets, food kiosks, hospitality etc. 2. Broadcast (BD): TV and radio rights income 3. Commercial (CR): Pretty much everything else including merchandise. (%CR/T): The percentage of CR within Total Turnover.
    In the three years prior to Ashley taking over, have a look at how much of the ‘revenue pie’ that commercial revenue contributed to overall Newcastle Utd. turnover. An average of just over 30%.
    Figures are Pounds Sterling / Millions
    Pre Ashley
    ………………Turnover………MD……..BR…………CR……….%CR/T
    2004/05……..87.1…………35.3…….27.9……….23.9………(27%)
    2005/06……..85.9…………31.5…….26.5……….27.9………(32%)
    2006/07……..87.1…………33.6…….25.9……….27.6………(32%)
    Now have a look at some more recent figures with the Ashley/Sports Direct influence.
    ……………..Turnover……….MD……..BR…………CR……….%CR/T
    2011/12…….93.3………….23.9…….55.6……….13.8………(15%)
    The numbers from Deloittes don’t lie but what lies behind the lack of commercial revenue? In 2012/13, the Commercial revenue had increased to 17.1M and was still 15% of overall turnover but trends during the 7 years of the Ashley ownership are confusing for a merchandising guru who once said “Matchday and commercial revenue is a key driver because that is where the club can compete with – and outperform – its competitors to enhance its spending capabilities.”
    The reality of those 7 years is more famine than feast, at least for Newcastle United who are the only EPL club to have seen their commercial revenue go down in that time frame. The numbers are stark, an approximate 30% drop whilst similar sized clubs have enjoyed large gains, Villa 114%, Sunderland 81%, Everton 59%.
    Stranger still when you have Dan Jones, partner in the Sports Business Group at Deloitte and the main man behind their ‘Football Rich List’ saying on BBC Radio…. “For the first time ever we’ve got most of the clubs on our list making more money from commercial sources than anywhere else.
    “Historically, matchday was always the biggest earner for clubs, then it was TV, now for these biggest clubs around the world it is commercial – which includes sponsorship, shirt sales, partnerships, licensing deals; basically everything that isn’t TV and tickets.”
    So where has it vanished to?
    Perhaps the Ashley answer to the question (above) put to him regards Newcastle and Rangers at the Sports Direct AGM may give us a clue. “Other than to say than it’s been beneficial to Sports Direct and therefore its shareholders, I don’t think it’s appropriate to comment.”
    That from the man who at the beginning said he wasn’t getting into football to make money.


  4. Doc says:

    October 30, 2014 at 6:30 pm

    —————————–

    Now you are on your own….


  5. easyJambo says:
    October 30, 2014 at 6:23 pm
    0 0 Rate This

    In the interests of fairness I don’t see such speculation as a problem. Many on TSFM have speculated on others’ sources, whether it’s Keith Jackson, Al Lamont, Chris McLaughlin, Chick Young, Bill McMurdo or whoever.
    ————

    Fair enough. If you sense someone has a PR agenda then it could be of interest to know who’s feeding them with information, and why.

    I see Phil as attempting to get the truth into the publc domain. It would be a shame if his sources clammed up because they felt they were in danger of being outed.


  6. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    That, of course, doesn’t mean that Tonev didn’t utter racist comments. I feel if a third party had given evidence of hearing the words then Celtic wouldn’t have backed him and he would have been packed-off immediately.

    ——————

    Translated for those of us who don’t wear green-tinted specs:

    Celtic cynically play the rule-book to allow Tonev to continue playing for the remainder of his loan contract.


  7. The numbers from Deloittes don’t lie but what lies behind the lack of commercial revenue? In 2012/13, the Commercial revenue had increased to 17.1M and was still 15% of overall turnover but trends during the 7 years of the Ashley ownership are confusing for a merchandising guru who once said “Matchday and commercial revenue is a key driver because that is where the club can compete with – and outperform – its competitors to enhance its spending capabilities.”
    The reality of those 7 years is more famine than feast, at least for Newcastle United who are the only EPL club to have seen their commercial revenue go down in that time frame. The numbers are stark, an approximate 30% drop whilst similar sized clubs have enjoyed large gains, Villa 114%, Sunderland 81%, Everton 59%.
    ===========================================================
    However as Sports Directs sells ALL the increasing brands they still make dosh anyhow even without IP. With IP its 100% cream minus mfg and dely.


  8. sickofitall says:
    October 30, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    ”Mike Ashley has many business interests
    ======================================================
    He certainly has and looking through his directorships I thought I had cracked the secret of his business success when I discovered he was a director in Voodoo Dolls.

    I had visions of Ashley sending free-gratis voodoo dolls to potential takeover targets, stuffed in a fag packet, with a few calculations of what Mike thought their business was worth scrawled on the back.

    No wonder they threw in the towel and begged Ashley to pay them even less for their business than he thought it was worth but just please no more voodoo dolls.

    Sadly further checking revealed that Voodoo Dolls is the brand name of a clothing collection which apparently found favour with female surfers in Australia.

    Why didn’t he take a directorship in Zombie Dolls ❓

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255234/Zombie-dolls-creepy-new-craze-just-won-t-die-Artist-creates-undead-babies-vampire-like-teeth-piercing-red-eyes.html

    Well you can’t win them all 🙁


  9. Tonev

    Where do you start with this.

    Firstly , if he said what he is accused of saying, then 7 match ban is appropriate based on precedent.

    Absolute proof does not appear to have been required by the FA when dealing with Terry & Suarez. So there is no point in getting too wound up by the argument of its one mans word against the other.

    Judicial panels like juries are entitled to believe or disbelieve the evidence of witnesses. Sometimes it’s the only way to arrive at a verdict. Caveat that with the famous “not proven” verdict available exclusively in Scotland.

    Equally it is encouraging that the SFA took the case as one deserving serious consideration.

    Where the SFA though can be condemned is in their apparantly selective decisions on what is and is not worthy of charge or investigation.

    It’s not whataboutery to wonder why some cases of off field behaviour are investigated by the SFA and others not. A glance through social media will yield many comments made by players and some club officials which at best are inappropriate and at worst highly offensive.

    There are 2 Dicksons in official positions at Ibrox , one of whom never says anything wrong , as far as I can see, the other has made many many offensive or inflammatorycomments . Without any apparent intervention by the SFA. The current Rangers manager has caused huge problems for member clubs , through comments he has made , yet appears untouchable.

    We also have the problem of the SFA’s refusal to provide detailed explanation for decisions that are reached under its authority. Leigh Griffiths is reported to be subject to SFA investigation , awaiting Police investigation. On that basis I won’t say more. However what actions have the SFA taken against players who have been charged and found guilty in court of offensive behaviour. Is there a zero tolerance policy on this or is it dependent on the decision of the compliance officer.

    Which takes us back to SFA communication. The case of Charlie Adams brother is one such. Charged by Police , found guilty in court of sectarian behaviour, which is as disgusting as racist behaviour.

    It’s not easy to find out if the SFA took any action against him . Racist & Sectarian behaviour should never be tolerated, excused or ignored . Ever.

    Does the SFA adhere to that standard in action as well as in principal. Hopefully they do and do not take their lead from their current President who refused to criticise or condemn Lorenzo Amoruso even after he had been proven to have used the “N word ” towards an opponent when he was Rangers captain & Ogilvie was a Rangers director


  10. Pictish says:
    October 30, 2014 at 7:09 pm
    ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    That, of course, doesn’t mean that Tonev didn’t utter racist comments. I feel if a third party had given evidence of hearing the words then Celtic wouldn’t have backed him and he would have been packed-off immediately.
    ——————
    Translated for those of us who don’t wear green-tinted specs:

    Celtic cynically play the rule-book to allow Tonev to continue playing for the remainder of his loan contract.
    ============================================
    I’m not sure what tinted specs you are wearing but you are displaying severe tunnel vision on this one.

    Celtic may well be being cynical but I don’t think that has the slightest bearing on the point I am making.

    Let me remind you that I believe there was probably no independent witness as to what racist words if any were used. One player claims they were racist and the other claims he didn’t make racist comments.

    As I have no recourse to any of the evidence and am unlikely ever to do so I don’t know what the alleged words were and haven’t a clue about the level of language skills of either player.

    But that is a bit of a minor issue as my main point is whether it’s actually fair to ‘convict’ someone of a serious and very distasteful racist offence with no direct corroborative evidence.

    If you are happy to face a similar charge on what is basically one person’s word against your’s then that’s up to you. I wouldn’t, having had more than a little experience of the vagaries of human behaviour.

    This isn’t a Celtic thing IMO – it is a question as to whether a fundamental criminal legal right wrt corroboration is being undermined albeit in a football tribunal.

    There is also the whole issue of a very bad precedent being set which allows any player to claim he has been racially abused as long as he reports it to his manager. Is that really something you would be happy with?

    My original post made it clear that I was adopting a neutral and what I thought was a balanced and objective position on the incident within the evidential constraints imposed by the SFA.

    As a Celtic supporter I would hope that my club are backing the player because they believe what he is saying and that he isn’t a racist. I don’t know the guy and I’m sure Celtic will have had him informally sussed with other players and staff as to whether he is likely to be a racist or not and they obviously believe he isn’t or they wouldn’t have backed him.

    And you have to remember – it isn’t up to Celtic to appeal – that’s the player’s decision and they have decided to back it.

    And really if the SFA can’t get the appeals process in gear before the end of the season that’s an issue to take them to task on. I would hope that it was done asap as it helps no one for it to drag on.

    I doubt that in playing terms Tonev will be missed. However that is no reason to deny him justice.


  11. Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 14m14 minutes ago
    Rangers consultant Barry Leach removed as director of Rangers Retail Limited. Leaves only his Sports Direct colleague David Forsey on board.

    I guess Barry is busy, consulting. Then again perhaps he was feeling a little conflicted.


  12. Re Barry Leach

    Perhaps a dose of B.Leach would have been a cleansing influence


  13. Martin says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:06 pm

    Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 14m14 minutes ago
    Rangers consultant Barry Leach removed as director of Rangers Retail Limited. Leaves only his Sports Direct colleague David Forsey on board.

    I guess Barry is busy, consulting. Then again perhaps he was feeling a little conflicted.
    =====================================
    I think Grant is a bit busy as well as I ran that news earlier from the ET IIRC 😆

    However the fairly new company which Ashley is a director of: Rangers Retail Rights Ltd also has Forsey on the board along with C J Olsen – all from 11 September 2014.

    Obviously no conflcition there 😕


  14. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    Let me remind you that I believe there was probably no independent witness as to what racist words if any were used. One player claims they were racist and the other claims he didn’t make racist comments.

    =========================================================================

    I hope you are wrong.

    It is bad enough players diving and feigning injury but this would fade into insignificance if players could wrongly be branded racist on the word of a disgruntled/malicious opponent. (I am not suggesting that this is the case in this instance).

    Racism is a horrible crime which must not have the potential to be undermined by the possibility of false accusations.

    He said/she said accusations are not robust enough IMO.


  15. Barcabhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 7:28 pm

    Where the SFA though can be condemned is in their apparently selective decisions on what is and is not worthy of charge or investigation.
    ===========================

    By sheer chance recently I was able to have a chat with someone who has contributed to the SFA disciplinary process in the past, and who still does. What I was told neither shocked or surprised me, but it confirmed exactly what I thought. It is an arbitrary process open to the prejudices of those who complain. It is also wide open to what a TV Editor wants to include and what a pundit chooses to focus on.

    As for the Tonev case like most Celtic fans I don’t want him near Celtic Park if he is a genuine racist. We have no way of knowing whether he is though, despite what the SFA say. I thought it might be opening doors for all sorts, yet as you say it appears the SFA are selective in who they want to punish.

    They are a disgraceful organisation in my view.


  16. Looking back at the recent share trades again it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that Blue Pitch or Milton Group have disposed of their shares (assuming the Easdale holding is not on the market 😀 )

    That said tomorrow is another day and we may see further significant trades which would bring other holdings into play.

    Clearly I am speculating that we are not seeing multiple individual unconnected trades.

    The share price hasn’t changed much, looks to my admittedly inexperienced eye like a someone is quietly selling up piece by piece.

    Edit: If more than one group chose to sell at the same time a dramatic fall in share price would be expected.

    Thoughts?


  17. upthehoops says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:32 pm

    . . . despite what the SFA say. I thought it might be opening doors for all sorts, yet as you say it appears the SFA are selective in who they want to punish. They are a disgraceful organisation in my view.
    ————————————————————–
    This is the heart of the problem with the SFA. Scottish football fans neither trust nor respect the organisation and that bodes ill for football and its governance in our country IMO.


  18. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    ============================================
    I’m not sure what tinted specs you are wearing but you are displaying severe tunnel vision on this one.

    Celtic may well be being cynical but I don’t think that has the slightest bearing on the point I am making.

    Let me remind you that I believe there was probably no independent witness as to what racist words if any were used. One player claims they were racist and the other claims he didn’t make racist comments.

    As I have no recourse to any of the evidence and am unlikely ever to do so I don’t know what the alleged words were and haven’t a clue about the level of language skills of either player.

    …followed by the usual Celtic high-moral-ground guff backed up by numerous paragraphs of whataboutery from Barcabhoy and upthehoops.
    —————————

    The Aberdeen player is Shay Logan, he’s got excellent language skills.

    How do you know there wasn’t any corroborative evidence?

    Celtic are either:
    1) accusing a well-respected player and his manager of fabricating a story

    or

    2) cynically playing the rule-book to allow Tonev (not so sure if he is well-respected, Villa want shot of) to continue playing for the remainder of his loan contract


  19. Doc says:
    October 30, 2014 at 4:58 pm
    ‘…..Celtic have got a bigger budget, better players, better stadium, more income, better facilities than any other team….’
    ———-
    Yes, so they do.
    But,like all the other Scottish clubs,they also pay their social taxes and provide all the required information about payments made to players.

    They have not, nor has any other club, run a wholly rotten, more than a decade long campaign of secret cheating-possibly with the connivance of the Authorities.
    SDM ran a wholesale cheating campaign by deliberately not disclosing to the football authorities the secret payments being made to many of his RFC players.
    In the view of many, his club should have been expelled for such large scale cheating.
    In the view of many, the new club (changing its name several times)was and is in fact being illicitly recognised by the football authorities as if it were that original cheating club.
    I do not accept TRFC as being a legitimate club at all.
    But if they wish to claim the badge of shame that RFC wore before it died, I would feel soiled-and I would hope that CFC and its supporters would also feel soiled-at being required to play any kind of fixture against them.

    Let TRFC renounce any claim to the cheatingly-obtained trophies and titles of RFC(IL), and let them denounce in the strongest terms the chicanery of SDM, the then owner of RFC(IL).

    Then let the SFA apologise to all of Scottish Football for their complicit partisanship in ever having accommodated CG .

    And then I might, reluctantly and under duress, accept TRFC as a club in its second year, which is being shockingly badly run and again looking for rescue from the same complicit, rule-bending, partisan SFA.

    There is no ‘Old Firm’, there is no ‘Rangers Football Club’: and there can be no satisfaction in playing bogus substitutes.
    Being required to play a fixture against TRFC would be bad enough.
    But relishing the prospect and therefore lending it some kind of legitimacy is unthinkable!
    And is playing into the hands of the SFA and the other football authorities who need us to ‘move on, going forward’, like war criminals who desperately want to bury the past as easily as they buried the truth.
    That’s my opinion, Doc. I think you’re on the wrong track- and maybe should turn left at Albuquerque!


  20. Pictish says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:42 pm

    Celtic are either:
    1) accusing a well-respected player and his manager of fabricating a story

    or

    2) cynically playing the rule-book to allow Tonev (not so sure if he is well-respected, Villa want shot of) to continue playing for the remainder of his loan contract
    ===================

    I think it is Tonev’s appeal, which Celtic are supporting. If there is any corroborative evidence, then I would be surprised if the club would support the appeal, but we simply don’t know.

    There has to be an appeal process, that is a given these days for all such quasi legal tribunals. The big question for me is why it should take 6 months or whatever to simply convene an appeal panel. If the appeal could be dealt with next week, for example, then that would remove any suspicion that the system is being gamed.

    If Celtic are in fact gaming the system, rather than simply supporting an employee whom they think has a reasonable case, then that would be totally disgraceful, and I don’t believe that it would be supported by anyone on this forum- I hope so, anyway.

    I repeat, though- a rapid and efficient appeal process is really essential in cases like this.


  21. Pictish says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:42 pm

    Celtic have not accused anyone of anything, and I think you will find that it is Aleksandar Tonev who is appealing the decision given by the SFA.

    That is his right, and rightly so.

    Celtic have expressed disappointment at the outcome of the hearing having accepted the players explanation that he did not use the words alleged.

    No one is questioning Shay Logan’s language skills, we have no details of how the hearing played out, nor is anyone or implying that he and his manager fabricated a story.

    The case will continue through the appeals process.


  22. What an interesting company name: The Trademark Licencing Company Ltd. Wonder what it does – could it simply be what’s on the outside of the tin viz it simply licences trade marks. Who knows?

    At least we know the directors and have come across them before: Mike Ashley (wef 31.12.2013); David Forsey (wef 10/10/2005); John Cameron Olsen (wef 4/12/2013).


  23. John Clark says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    I do not accept TRFC as being a legitimate club at all.
    But if they wish to claim the badge of shame that RFC wore before it died, I would feel soiled-and I would hope that CFC and its supporters would also feel soiled-at being required to play any kind of fixture against them.

    =========================================================================

    John the Zombie, Sevco, etc comments will live for years to come esp. from the stands filled with their opponents for years to come.

    The Celtic support will continue with the “Not Rangers any More” chants but will still fill the ground whenever they meet and continue to take as much joy (if not more)in beating them.

    But the record books, football authorities and media will continue with the perception that Rangers survived. History will show that they never died.

    Whether we like it or not Rangers should have died but didn’t, and the number of fans holding onto the “truth” will become less and less and sound more like a stuck record…they will be an unheard minority.

    It will be business as usual when we play.

    I am not saying this is fair and just, I am saying this is how it is/will be.


  24. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    Your Mr Forsey seems to have been on the board of Rangers Retail LTD since mid 2012, with Mr Olsen turning up in December 2013.

    Charles Green and Brian Stockbridge arrived in August 2012 though both have long since departed.


  25. Where will the semis be held,as i have not seen it mentioned in any papers


  26. Pictish says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:42 pm

    ========================================
    I have made my points clear and if you want to misrepresent them then feel free. There is obviously no point in my making any further response to your comments.


  27. Re the Tonev debate; if a player is a racist, a bigot or a homophobe then in my opinion they should be given the boot from their workplace.

    If a player uses an unacceptable term in the heat of battle does that make them a racist/bigot/homophobe? Just asking?

    Before everyone answers just think about your behaviour during the last meaningful football match you watched…. including England 😉


  28. Doc says:
    October 30, 2014 at 9:38 pm
    ‘..and the number of fans holding onto the “truth” will become less and less and sound more like a stuck record…they will be an unheard minority.’
    ———
    Perhaps,Doc. Especially if those who,like you, know and acknowledge the truth openly, are nevertheless happy to let the deceivers get away with their deception, and provide aid and comfort to them in their deception, the way our SMSM have been doing!
    ( If I didn’t know better,there’s something about your posting style that ( silly me!) kind of reminds me of Jack,you seem so very eager to encourage us to forget the truth. As I say, silly me, and I forthwith banish the thought)


  29. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 9:09 pm

    As usual, I’m very impressed with your, and other’s, ability to unearth all these interesting facts that seem way beyond the ability of the SMSM. Whether or not it leads us anywhere, is, I’d suggest, immaterial, but, who knows, it might be a piece of the jigsaw puzzle? It also leads me on to the following as a possible scenario for Ashley.

    The Green era is over.

    Some of his players are still around, though. The Easedales being the most obvious. They appear to be in bed with Mike Ashley, who’s era we now appear (but maybe not) to be in.

    I think we can assume that Ashley goes into things fully aware that it can go wrong, as with Newcastle, and is pretty good at flying by the seat of his pants when things do go wrong, as with Newcastle. So his plans for RIFC/TRFC will be flexible.

    It seems almost confirmed that he now holds a fair bit of The Rangers’ IP, and is intent on gobbling up more. He also seems to like heritable assets. These are the things that most football clubs have that are worth owning if you want to make a profit. Let’s presume TRFC own all ‘their’ heritable assets.

    If the SFA do their job properly, Ashley can’t get hold of TRFC, nor be a part of their holding company. So how does he get hold of the assets as well as the IP?

    Well the SFA can’t stop him buying shares in RIFC, they can only make things difficult for Ashley to operate a football club in Scotland.

    So Ashley buys up a load of shares in RIFC, probably on the quiet, as much as he can get in a relatively short time, and, keeping the doubts flying around Ibrox, manages to push the price down a notch or two.

    His plan; to do what many predicted a couple of years ago (for Green and co) push TRFC into administration after using the £2m loan to clear outstanding creditors. The £2m is repaid by calling up the security. Then take the heritable assets as payment for the debt owed to RIFC. Break all links between RIFC and TRFC, Ashley now doesn’t fall foul of the SFA – as RIFC, now called MASH Properties, is only the club’s landlord.

    Payback to the Easedales is that they are now the major, or sole, owners of TRFC, and are painted as it’s rescuers, having paid a small, pre-arranged, purchase price. Mike Ashley makes it clear that the Easedales did all in their power to prevent administration and it is their hard work that has ‘saved’ the club. All the overpaid dead-weights are ditched and the club has a clear run at mediocrity (for a while, at least).

    Mike Ashley is now the major shareholder of MASH Properties (owning Ibrox and Murray Park). He owns all the IP of TRFC. He lends the club enough money to see out the season, repayable once STs are sold, or as the next season progresses from ticket sales and TV money (there is nothing else left for the club to make money from).

    To ease TRFC through the first couple of years the Ibrox and MP rents are discounted, but with very severe penalties if there is any defaulting. And so on, and so on…

    This, I reckon, if it is a workable scenario, is a pretty good way for Ashley to make a lot of money, over the next few years, without very much outlay.

    All supposition, perhaps fantasy, on my part, but I think it would work, if Ashley wanted it to.


  30. Twice in the last 5/6 years 2 members of the footballing community have come out and called scottish football corrupt.

    1. Craig Levine in the tunnel at Ibrox after the Rangers v Dundee Utd farce when the cloven hooved ones “won” 2-1. Check youtube. Although he didnt use the word “corrupt” he did everything but…

    2. Turnbull Hutton, of course, 2 years ago.

    Can anyone out there remember if either of them were asked to explain their comments? Were they punished?

    If not, I wonder why.

    Maybe if they had used the word “fanny” (copyright Neil Lennon) the powers at be would have be all over them.


  31. Martin says:
    October 30, 2014 at 9:43 pm
    ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    Your Mr Forsey seems to have been on the board of Rangers Retail LTD since mid 2012, with Mr Olsen turning up in December 2013.

    Charles Green and Brian Stockbridge arrived in August 2012 though both have long since departed.
    ===================================
    @Martin: You might be interested in an article I did on Rangers Retail being set-up on Scotslawthoughts back in August 2012.

    http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/rangers-fc-gets-its-jjb-kit-off-now-time-for-sports-direct-by-ecojon/

    The SD directors were on before Green and Stockbridge I think quite simply because SD incorporated the company in England with the registered office at SD HQ. Also SD was doing all the paperwork for Rangers Retail so I don’t think the time gap meant anything.


  32. Cluster One says:
    October 30, 2014 at 9:45 pm

    Where will the semis be held,as i have not seen it mentioned in any papers
    ——————————————————-
    It depends on whether Ibrox is still open or not I would think and that depends on what the ‘consultants’ find under the hood 🙄


  33. Join the dots
    Newco No1 Ltd first registered 13 July 2012
    Newco Numero 1 first registered 13 July 2012
    Newco No 1 changes its name to SDI Rangers Retail on 14 Aug 2012
    Newco No 1 appointment Charles Green as Director on 28 Aug 2012
    Newco No 1 appointment terminated Charles Green as Director on 22 Oct 2013
    Newco Numero 1 changes its name to Thorpe Rea Holdings on 10 Oct 2012
    Newco Numero 1 register 2 MRO1 Charges on 17 April 2013 and 13 June 2013 to fund executive pensions for one or more beneficiaries
    Newco Numero 1 register Statement of Capital £18 on 4 Feb 2014
    Newco Numero 1 register Purchase of own shares Capital £17 24 Feb 2014
    Newco Numero 1 register Purchase of own shares Capital £16 4 Feb 2014
    Newco Numero 1 register Purchase of own shares Capital £15 2 May 2014
    Newco Numero 1 register Purchase of own shares Capital £14 21 May 2014
    Newco Numero 1 register Purchase of own shares Capital £13 2 June 2014
    Newco Numero 1 register Purchase of own shares Capital £18 1 Aug 2014
    ………………………..
    Or put another way
    Two companies with similar names are created on the same day. They both have their names changed .
    One of them changes its name to SDI Rangers Retail (SDI presumably stands for Sports Direct International). The other co changes its name to Thorpe Rea Holdings.
    TRH register 2 securities in Spring 2013
    Green resigns from Rangers Retail in Oct 2014
    3 months later in Feb 2014, Thorpe Rea Holdings embark on purchasing its own shares at regular intervals. By 1 Aug 2014 Thorpe Rea Holdings have bought back 5 of the 18 shares in the company
    There may be no connection between these cos
    Or maybe one is a conduit for the other


  34. Re demand among Celtic support for an OF semi or final. Fair to say that the folks who make up this great blog are of a more intellectual nature than the majority of fans of their respective clubs. Thus it’s not surprising to see indifference here. Whilst not as brainy as some of the more esteemed posters here, I would class myself as being of above average intelligence. I for one cannot wait for an OF game and will be there should it happen.

    Putting new club and deid club to the side, they’re still our greatest rivals, always have been and always will be so long as there’s a team playing in blue at Ibrox. Demand for this game will be mega. Anyone thinking otherwise is either misguided or deluded.


  35. johnnymanc says:

    October 30, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    0

    1

    Rate This

    Re the Tonev debate; if a player is a racist, a bigot or a homophobe then in my opinion they should be given the boot from their workplace.

    If a player uses an unacceptable term in the heat of battle does that make them a racist/bigot/homophobe? Just asking?

    Before everyone answers just think about your behaviour during the last meaningful football match you watched…. including England 😉

    ==============================
    Unacceptable behaviour is just that. Most large corporate bodies have well defined policies on what is unacceptable “there is no heat of battle”. Employees have protection from racist, homophobic or religious intolerance regardless of where they are employed. Be that in an A and E department or on a football park. In a case where racist language is used, the disciplinary rules regardless of the organisation are quite clear with no room for ambiguity.


  36. crawford says:
    October 30, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    I think you can add Vladimir Romanov (hcht spit) to that list, though he, or rather Hearts, were punished with a £200,000 fine, after the rules were changed to accommodate this retrospective ‘justice’. He was, of course, mad, as the SMSM were happy to point out! They might have got that right, though not for the reasons stated at the time (the SMSM were monkeys! a bit weak I’d have thought).


  37. Allyjambo says:
    October 30, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    All supposition, perhaps fantasy, on my part, but I think it would work, if Ashley wanted it to.
    ——————————————
    That was a good bedtime tale and I’m not sure if it’ll spark a dream or a nightmare 😯

    The only thing that you have missed-out is the possible reaction of the Bears and I think that primarily hinges on whether they get promoted or not next season.

    There may well be a PR makeover for the Easdales but I have serious doubts whether it will work. I also wonder whether they actually have the necessary dosh to play such a pivotal role in the scenario you envisage.

    Still I think things will all be happening quickly from now on so we should soon start to see the way the cards are being played and who is left with the shitty hand. Hard to see it not being the fans and some of the institutional investors IMO.


  38. Marcybhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Re demand among Celtic support for an OF semi or final. Fair to say that the folks who make up this great blog are of a more intellectual nature than the majority of fans of their respective clubs. Thus it’s not surprising to see indifference here. Whilst not as brainy as some of the more esteemed posters here, I would class myself as being of above average intelligence. I for one cannot wait for an OF game and will be there should it happen.
    =====================================================
    Ah ❗ Intelligence linked with football – now that’s a novel concept 😆


  39. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 9:50 pm
    ========================================
    I have made my points clear and if you want to misrepresent them then feel free. There is obviously no point in my making any further response to your comments.
    ————–

    From the BBC:

    Celtic have five working days to submit their intention to fight the ban and, if it is lodged during office hours on Friday, Tonev will be free to face Inverness CT on Saturday. He would be free to play thereafter until the case is heard.

    That is all Celtic care about, getting their moneys worth from the loan. Don’t pretend it’s anything else.


  40. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 10:32 pm

    I should have said, eco, that these little matters won’t bother Ashley one jot! If it all goes pear-shaped for TRFC, he still has the assets and the IP of whatever takes it’s place! And fans, what fans? Newcastle have fans, and I, Mike Ashley, p***ed all over them!


  41. Methinks my earlier post of MA being gone by Friday looks ever more likely given Phil’s latest.
    Prediction.
    MA meets Chuckles, amiable cash changes hands for the missing brands, 100% IP achieved. Cheerio Rangers and there’s 500k left after Nash etc. paid off.
    Whomsoever then appears and has a fitba club, match day money STs and that’s it.
    Why oh why would he do anything other than let it NOT go bust – just survive drip by drip until the new owners arrive and take over the leaner machine.
    Hence the comments about Allys salary. Hes gone I believe.

    Once someone ELSE stabilises the ship the jobs done, just keep raking in the merchandise money.

    Which is sure as anything.
    In illustration: ( My mate was over from OZ a few months back and spent hundreds on gear from the shop for all his pals) This despite having bought the worthless shares (both issues) and despite knowing where the money was being split.


  42. ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 10:13 pm

    It’s interesting that Rangers Retail LTD was established prior to Charles Green and Brian Stockbridge sighing on as Directors.

    In business speak that’s called getting your ducks aligned. Forward planning if you will.

    Quite what Graham Wallace signed up for in January 2013 is beyond me.

    Perhaps those on the inside concluded that bringing the old blunderbuss into the camp was better than allowing him freedom criticise in the famous 120 day review.

    Is he still on board?


  43. Pictish says:

    October 30, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    2

    4

    Rate This

    ecobhoy says:
    October 30, 2014 at 9:50 pm
    ========================================
    I have made my points clear and if you want to misrepresent them then feel free. There is obviously no point in my making any further response to your comments.
    ————–

    From the BBC:

    Celtic have five working days to submit their intention to fight the ban and, if it is lodged during office hours on Friday, Tonev will be free to face Inverness CT on Saturday. He would be free to play thereafter until the case is heard.

    That is all Celtic care about, getting their moneys worth from the loan. Don’t pretend it’s anything else.
    =======================================================

    Every employee has the right of appeal regardless of who you work for. To argue anything else is flawed logic. let the due process run.


  44. Allyjambo says:
    October 30, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    I wonder if the rump of a rump board at Rangers Retail, is a sign that that vehicle’s days are numbered, about to scrapped, with the business transferred to a formal subsidiary of Sportsdirect?


  45. Doc says:
    October 30, 2014 at 9:38 pm

    Whether we like it or not Rangers should have died but didn’t,

    Unfortunately Doc, Rangers did die.
    The SFA and the Scottish media may try to convince us otherwise but they died.
    At one time almost everyone insisted that the Earth was flat, it still didn’t make it so.


  46. Doc says:
    October 30, 2014 at 10:35 pm
    ‘..John, I do not think about it that deeply.’
    ——————
    That’s up to you, of course, Doc..
    But I would have thought your sweetest and greatest victory would lie in seeing Sporting Integrity served by just punishment of those who cheat and the removal of any honours won by cheating, as happens in other sports.
    If you want to shut your eyes to the fact that for years Scottish Football was in effect ripped off by a master cheat……who am I to stop you?
    But I think it’s a pity you take that view.


  47. scapaflow says:
    October 30, 2014 at 11:08 pm
    ‘….with the business transferred to a formal subsidiary of Sportsdirect?’
    ——–
    Ashley has set up about 10 newcos since February 2014. None of them doing anything-yet. Company Numbers 08906705,09058220,09061354,09061357,09061362,09062747,09063619,09063671.
    I don’t know what that means! But presumably he has done this for some purpose, whether in any way connected with his plans for TRFC or not.
    As Martin suggested, duck alignment.


  48. Has Doc’s 10.35pm post been deleted? I would like to have read that one.


  49. Pictish, Your’re surely not relying on what the BBC puts out as being Gospel to back up your opinion? You should know better.


  50. John Clark says:
    October 30, 2014 at 11:54 pm

    There has been a revolution going on in IP over the last few years, and we, may, right before our eyes, be seeing the next stage.

    Football clubs are about branding, players come and go, but the colours, the badges, the history they represent are the outer shell, “skin”, if you will, that we identify with.

    What we may be seeing for the first time, is that “skin” being expertly flayed, and turned into a “suit”, that an entity will effectively rent.

    This is potentially, one of those turning points, where the initial change may not look like much, but the consequences are very far reaching.

    Though, I doubt if its the sort of history the Rangers fans will be happy to be a part of.


  51. scapaflow says:
    October 31, 2014 at 12:40 am
    7 0 Rate This

    There has been a revolution going on in IP over the last few years, and we, may, right before our eyes, be seeing the next stage…
    ———-

    Reading all this makes me wonder how on earth the liquidators allowed the use of this valuable property to go unchallenged. The Airdrieonians case has been mentioned many times, and how Jim Traynor himself attempted to secure the club crest & badge at the time — without success.

    Has there been a change in legislation, I wonder? Or is this a result of the club v company argument? Is the LNS’ non-legal ‘entity’ argument about a club, coming back to bite fans in their posterior entities?

    Putting Ibrox to one side, there surely needs to be legal protection for that which belongs, essentially, to fans. Supporters of any club would argue that everything the club has built up over its history has been done with their support, and that they must therefore have some sort of claim to the IP. Mind you, the same argument was made about rail, post office, utilities, the people’s properties — but they were sold off to private business.

    That MK Dons returned trophies of the former Wimbledon to AFC Wimbledon (in 2007?) was an act of common sense. They were returned to the community that continued the spirit of the former club.

    It surely can’t be right that the IP of football clubs, something communities hold sacred, can be snapped up by a wheeler dealer. Someone please make club and company one again!


  52. Danish Pastry says:
    October 31, 2014 at 7:51 am

    Reading all this makes me wonder how on earth the liquidators allowed the use of this valuable property to go unchallenged. The Airdrieonians case has been mentioned many times, and how Jim Traynor himself attempted to secure the club crest & badge at the time — without success.

    Has there been a change in legislation, I wonder? Or is this a result of the club v company argument? Is the LNS’ non-legal ‘entity’ argument about a club coming back to bite fans in their posterior entities?
    ==================================

    Whatever it is some Rangers fans must have been thinking if only we hadn’t just sat there and wished for a billionaire to arrive. They’ve got their wish now. Just goes to prove you should always be careful what you wish for!

    Of course, Celtic fans like me have known a billionaire to be in charge of our club for some time. He has invested £29M in shares and has never had to provide a £2M crisis loan, secured on club assets, to keep the club alive. He has an unwavering policy of the club being managed within its means, although his wealth comes from other interests, not from Celtic. Despite all this some Celtic fans still demand he throws money at the club. I’ve never understood this, and as I said, sometimes people should be careful what they wish for. Right now it is the same with every club in Scotland bar one. There is no other choice in Scotland but to spend only what you have. What is so difficult to understand about that?


  53. Who the hell is Barry Ferguson’s ghost writer at the DR?

    Whoever it is – they are an absolute disgrace even to ‘churnalism’!
    :slamb: :slamb: :slamb:

    “Barry Ferguson: Scottish football badly needs the return of an Old Firm clash…

    It’s the game that everyone wants to see and I’d argue it’s the one that Scottish football needs to reinvigorate the interest in our game…

    But do you know the best thing that an Old Firm reunion would bring? Some long-awaited focus at last on action on the pitch instead of matters off them…”

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/barry-ferguson-scottish-football-badly-4539405


  54. Here’s an interesting one:

    Latest RST Statement – Fleshers Haugh Limited Formed
    Official Statement – POSTED ON OCTOBER 30, 2014
    The Rangers Supporters Trust today announced that it has formed Fleshers Haugh Limited to produce a range of merchandise whose profits will be used to purchase shares in the club.

    Trust Chairman Gordon Dinnie said – “For a number of months now we have been selling red and black shirts but it’s obvious from the demand that fans also want other forms of merchandise. We set up Flesher Haugh to develop a range of quality merchandise which will be a credit to the club’s traditions and generate funds which will enable fans to buy more shares and make the club stable.”

    “I’m asking for fans with experience and skills in merchandising, design and manufacturing to come forward to help us build an enterprise which provides a real fans alternative.” More information to follow.

    http://fleshershaugh.com
    http://www.redandblackscarf.co.uk
    http://www.redandblackshirt.com
    http://www.therst.co.uk

    Why don’t they go the extra mile and establish a club? And put the money into their own project? Crest & colours already in place.


  55. Trust Chairman Gordon Dinnie said – “For a number of months now we have been selling red and black shirts

    I wonder if hmrc have seen any tax from the sales of these shirts?


  56. Joethebookie says:
    October 30, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    At one time almost everyone insisted that the Earth was flat, it still didn’t make it so.

    ========================================================================

    Yes, but which one of us is claiming the world to be flat?


  57. There seems to be a rush in the media to assume (maybe not so much on here) that Mike Ashley has just suddenly come onto the scene, or at least publicly, just recently became more hands-on involved.

    I am not so sure and believe that he has been there in the background since day 1, that day, being the handover of one GBP to SDM. Most things have gone to plan but now things are coming to a head, some late intervention of The Man Who Would Be King and Brian Kennedy.

    There has been far too much focus on CW, CG and The Chuckle Brothers and not enough on ‘Mr Ashley’, it is my belief that he holds the key to many of the shenanigans that have gone on over the last 3 years, that is why people are scared of him.

    As for having far too much power for someone who only owns 9% of the shares…..I am not sure that is all he has, at least not in his own name or a company directly linked to him.

    Food for thought….


  58. @ DP – 08:26

    I remember suggesting to some bluenose friends, at the time of the demise of the original Rangers and the creation of Sevcos 5088 and Scotland, that they form a new fan-owned “AFC Rangers” instead, using AFC Wimbledon as a template. I put it to them that they would earn the respect of other clubs and fans in doing so as they would assume control for themselves rather than expecting yet another white knight to come riding in and do it all for them.

    I was told in reply “it’s not the Rangers way”, “wealthy men will always want to associate with Rangers”, “what about the history?” and “why do you care anyway, Timmy?”. Well, these friends are still friends (because life is about far more than football, after all) but it’s all I can do now to bite my tongue when, in the light of all that has happened subsequently, they themselves raise and discuss the possibility of a new fan-owned entity.

    THC


  59. Joethebookie says:
    October 30, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    Unfortunately Doc, Rangers did die.
    The SFA and the Scottish media may try to convince us otherwise but they died.
    =========================================================================

    Totally agree with your comment Joe.

    The problem is who does every one outside blogs like this listen to?

    If the SFA had come out a said Rangers were dead there would have been no argument. But they didn’t so the records show that they continued. UEFA and FIFA seem happy to accept the SFA’s take on the matter.

    There are a lot of things that are not right in this world and IMO this issue is well down the list of the wrongs I should lose sleep over.

    The point I am trying to make is that the majority now believe Rangers continue and unlike your “the Earth is round” argument, as time goes by fewer and fewer people will argue that they died.

    Anyway I can hear you say “FFS Geeze Peece” so I will give it a rest and leave it at that.


  60. 1,200,000 RIFC shares traded two days ago, but only notified on 30th !!??


  61. Seen the new TRFC Supremo referred to as ‘My Cashley’Thought it was quite clever. Sorry if posted before.


  62. Doc says:
    October 31, 2014 at 9:52 am
    ‘..There are a lot of things that are not right in this world and IMO this issue is well down the list of the wrongs I should lose sleep over.’
    ——–
    Your thoroughly defeatist attitude, which allows guys like CG and SDM and the SFA to give multiple ‘two fingers’ to us all.
    I do not share it, and, frankly, would be embarrassed to share it.
    Go blithely on your uncritical way, as dignified as you can be,cannon fodder for utterly unscrupulous shysters and the perverted propaganda of less than honest hacks.


  63. Doc says:
    October 31, 2014 at 9:25 am

    2

    3

    Rate This
    Joethebookie says:
    October 30, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    At one time almost everyone insisted that the Earth was flat, it still didn’t make it so.
    ========================================================================
    Yes, but which one of us is claiming the world to be flat?
    ———————————————————–
    For most practical purposes – for the overwhelming majority of the population – the world is ‘flat’.


  64. Carfins Finest says:
    October 31, 2014 at 9:59 am

    4

    0

    Rate This

    Seen the new TRFC Supremo referred to as ‘My Cashley’ Thought it was quite clever. Sorry if posted before.
    ——————-

    Hadn’t seen it. Very droll 😆


  65. Can you not just all move along and mind the gap please. (About two and an half years to be exact).

    Pictish @ 8.42

    I think you’ll find one interpretation which happens to also be mine is that your “or” should be “and”


  66. Latest RST Statement – Fleshers Haugh Limited Formed
    Official Statement – POSTED ON OCTOBER 30, 2014
    The Rangers Supporters Trust today announced that it has formed Fleshers Haugh Limited to produce a range of merchandise whose profits will be used to purchase shares in the club.

    Trust Chairman Gordon Dinnie said – “For a number of months now we have been selling red and black shirts but it’s obvious from the demand that fans also want other forms of merchandise. We set up Flesher Haugh to develop a range of quality merchandise which will be a credit to the club’s traditions and generate funds which will enable fans to buy more shares and make the club stable.”

    “I’m asking for fans with experience and skills in merchandising, design and manufacturing to come forward to help us build an enterprise which provides a real fans alternative.” More information to follow.

    http://fleshershaugh.com
    http://www.redandblackscarf.co.uk
    http://www.redandblackshirt.com
    http://www.therst.co.uk

    ====================================================
    This really is a major step and could lead to moving the Bears away from a splintered protest movement to one which is capable of not only uniting fans but of giving them a clear ‘branded’ identity which proclaims their support for a different kind of club.

    Obviously the spiv hope has always been that the boycotts would fizzle out if Rangers was promoted next season and more money would flow into the sundry onerous contracts.

    Again I’m sure the spiv hope would have been that bitter fan infighting and recrimination between different groups would destroy any threat of united action.

    Now wearing red & black colours could become a real symbol not only of fan rejection of the money men and spivs and of lying down to their demands.

    It’s the first effective sign I have seen at Ibrox of a movement that could stop the spivs in their tracks and I wonder if the use of Flesher’s Haugh is also a subliminal ‘signal’ that Ranger’s history actually predates Ibrox?

    I wish them well but hope this new endeavour refrains from creating an orange tap. But as I have always said: It’s up to Rangers supporters to determine what road a new club goes down. I just hope for the sake of a new club and Scottish Football that they choose wisely.

    I would also say that as well as people to help create the merchandise they need to take serious financial advice about what ‘club’ any profits are invested in by way of share purchase and in this regard timing and dilution are critical.


  67. Martin says:
    October 31, 2014 at 10:45 am
    =====================================

    Who’s he?


  68. Bawsman says:
    October 31, 2014 at 10:53 am

    Morgan Stanley & Co LLC


  69. Quick observation on the Tonev situation.
    Firstly, racism is totally unacceptable in all forms. Tonev has been adjudged to be guilty – by what means we have no idea – yet.
    The appeal, it seems to me, has to be done very quickly in fairness to all parties as Tonev’s name is now badly tarnished – rightly or wrongly and reason for decision needs to be made public, IMO.
    I see some are casting doubts on Celtic’s supporting the appeal so the get value for money for the loan.

    I take exactly the opposite view. They were given a lifeline to offload a player who looks a dud and save money. That they have not done so suggests that they are behaving as a supportive and decent employer should and, of course, are conscious of the effect on their brand image.
    Whatever the outcome this decision, on available information, seems to have been one fully be meriting the now-famous and used once “not proven” verdict.
    The appeal will be interesting and, whatever the outcome, surely even the SFA would not have the brass neck to announce by way of a one line sentence. Surely????


  70. COURT 3
    Before MR J MALE QC
    (Sitting as a Deputy Judge of the Chancery Division)
    Friday, 31 October 2014
    At half past 10
    CASE MANAGEMENT CONFERENCE
    2003 of 2012 Cohen & Anr v. Collyer Bristow LLP & Ors (Rangers FC)

    I imagine the full case will be heard next year – one to look out for.


  71. John Clark says:
    October 31, 2014 at 10:12 am

    Go blithely on your uncritical way, as dignified as you can be,cannon fodder for utterly unscrupulous shysters and the perverted propaganda of less than honest hacks.

    =========================================================================

    Thanks for the advice John.

    I have indeed been going blithely on my uncritical (although sometimes critical) way.

    I have spent my time working on things that I can truly influence and not chasing lost causes.

    This has taking me on a journey from the bottom 1% in the population in terms of wealth/social status to the top 10%.

    From a family on benefits, free school dinners, witnessing/subjected to horrific violence/abuse, having suicidal parents (both successful), imprisoned parent (one for murder) and spouses (drugs and firearms), being written off by societies sanctimonious prophets.

    To someone who has never been out of work, never been in trouble with the law, is considered to be a successful business owner and has qualifications that put me in the top 1% of our population.

    So go blithely on my uncritical way I will and be proud to do so.

    🙂

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