Harper Macleod and LNS

ByTrisidium

Harper Macleod and LNS

A guest blog by Auldheid

In the previous blog (http://www.tsfm.scot/how-not-to-govern-scottish-football/), TSFM wrote to Harper Macleod raising questions on their advice supplied to the then SPL Board in February 2013 when the Lord Nimmo Smith Decision re use of EBTs and side letters was announced.

A reply was received from Mr McKenzie on 18th September the gist of which can be discerned in the following reply sent on 4th October.


Dear Mr McKenzie                                                                                                    4th Oct 2014

Thank you for your response of 18th September to my letter of 5th September regarding the consequences of information on the true nature of EBTs for Craig Moore, Ronald De Boer and Tor Andre Flo being withheld from your good selves when establishing in 2012 the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission into the use of EBTs and side letters by Rangers FC from 1999.

In recognition of the points you made about publishing your responses on line, your letter of 18th September will not be published although readers of TSFM will be able to gather from this reply which is being published what those points were.

Anonymity.
It is a matter of real regret that not only was anonymity required, but that Harper MacLeod were used as a conduit to try and elicit a reply from the SPFL or SFA. In terms of anonymity there were three factors at play:

  1. Security. The individuals asking the questions are aware that any raised concerning Rangers can attract threats from the worst of the Rangers support. We know that they are a minority but nevertheless, as we have recently witnessed, some are ready to turn threat into action. It is a condemnation of Scottish society that fear has played its part in preventing the truth being revealed about Rangers FC’s use of EBTs since 1999.
  2.  

  3. Collective. The Scottish Football Monitor is made up of supporters of many clubs in Scottish football and is in effect a collective. The letters reflect to a large extent the thinking and feelings of the majority of readers. If a name is required for any future correspondence from the SPFL or SFA, then it can be addressed to Mr John Macnab, and a Post Box address can be supplied if necessary in addition to this e mail address press@tsfm.scot.
  4.  

  5. Accountability. The final factor is the most important because it is why Harper Macleod were approached. It was not just because you were responsible for commissioning the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry, but because there is absolutely no form of direct accountability by either the SPFL or the SFA to the supporters of Scottish football clubs. Correspondence can be ignored or the content not fully addressed and the customer who pays the wages of both organisations has no means of redress at all. Had there been some oversight in say an Ombudsman type role, it would not have been necessary to involve Harper MacLeod and indeed your good self. We sincerely apologise for doing so along with our thanks for actually responding to our correspondence, but we would like the reasons for our approach being addressed by the clubs who make up both footballing authorities. We hope you pass this particular point on to both SFA and SPFL.

 

Provenance.
You ask what the provenance is of the information/evidencethat you were given. The answer is we do not know, it was taken from material uploaded mainly in June last year for purposes unknown. Whilst its provenance may be in doubt there is no question as to the veracity of the content of the material itself.

This, when put together, sets out the narrative that prompted our correspondence. This question of provenance simply looks like an excuse for football authority not investigating what the material suggests took place when Duff and Phelps were asked to supply all documents relating to EBTs (no distinction being made) from the inception of the SPL.

Even if the material itself could not be used directly, it should have prompted questions that would have either corrected the narrative or established that the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission was indeed misled either by accident or design, when those documents were not supplied.

The SPFL must surely have the powers to seek the original documents from BDO and the SFA cannot be totally impotent in that regard either.

Then there is the personal knowledge of current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie to draw on. A simple statement explaining why he saw no reason to make any distinction between the irregular DOS REBTs that he launched in 1999 and the later MGMRT EBTs of which he was a beneficiary would surely help clear the air?

Existence of Side Letters.
We note that the Commission were aware of the existence of side letters to Moore, De Boer and Flo at the time of its decision of 28th February 2013 and these were taken into account when determining the appropriate sanction. The existence of side letters is not the issue that was raised in our previous correspondence, it was the nature of the EBTs that was the issue raised. In fact it would seem that the Commission themselves were confused by the switching from the irregular REBT ebts in 2002/03 to the MGMRT EBTs that are subject to further appeal with regard to regularity by HMRC.

The side letters to De Boer and Flo of 30th August and 23 November 2000 related to the DOS REBTs that they were both paid under. It is not known if they had subsequent side letters relating to the MGMRT EBTs , which is possible, but as set out in previous correspondence there were two distinctive types of EBTs and the side letters supplied relate to the earlier irregular type.

The position regarding the Moore EBT is interesting in that whatever EBT side letter was known to the Commission in February 2012 it could only have related to payments made to him under an accompanying side letter from the MGMRT ebts after 2002/03.

That Mr Moore was paid under the REBT scheme in 1999 is a matter of supplied evidence. However there is no record of any side letter in relation to the payment under the 1999 arrangement, which may or may not have been reported in the contract lodged with the SPL and SFA. It was the absence of any side letter in respect of this payment that prevented HMRC pursuing the tax due on it as they did for De Boer and Flo in what has become known as “the wee tax case. “ The evidence of deliberate concealment by the Murray Group of the side letters to De Boer and Flo allowed HMRC to seek repayment outside the normal 6 year time limit.

However the absence of a side letter or tax demand for Mr Moore does not mean this particular payment is not deserving of further scrutiny since

  1. It was an irregular payment that other clubs could not avail themselves of (as applies to the other two EBTs to De Boer and Flo)
  2.  

  3. It is not known if it was reported to the SPL/SFA under the registration rules of that period.

Finally thank you for forwarding our letter of 5th September and previous correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer. Hopefully any further correspondence will be between him and ourselves, first to our email address, later to a PO Box if required.

It is the hope of all readers of The Scottish Football Monitor that the SFA will stop hiding behind the provenance excuse, which is destroying any semblance of integrity and proper governance of Scottish football and they will use their powers to properly acquire the information that will set the record straight and in doing so start to restore some of the lost trust which is essential for the wellbeing of Scottish football.

John Macnab

TSFM

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,442 Comments so far

wottpiPosted on11:13 am - Oct 31, 2014


If true then I think one of the interesting points in the ‘Ashley coup’ is the possible request for Nash to stay on but not at Directorate level.

From the talk around the accounts Nash has managed to cut the running costs by circa £7m. No mean feat given as we know from the oldco’s accounts the running costs excluding footballing wages was always in the region of £14m per annum. Any reduction of £7m given the ongoing costs and possible onerous contracts is a bit of a miracle.

While Nash had one eye on getting financial matters under control he is a football club guy and clearly had another eye on the possibilities of how best to take the club forward on the park. Therefore King’s ‘soft loan’ proposals must have been tempting.

The fact that Ashley may have recognised Nash’s qualities in financial management and implementing austerity is, to me, an indication of the way forward as he tightens his grip on T’Rangers.

There will be no massive investment as hoped for by many. Simply a club run on a sustainable basis that tries to maximise its potential within the cash that it brings in through gate receipts and other sponsorship deals (which in relation to all other Scottish clubs, bar one, is considerable). However, like Newcastle, the full revenue potential will be hamstrung given Sports Direct will take more than its fair share through the deals brokered.

The key for Ashley is simply to keep things balanced enough to keep loyal fans coming though the turnstiles and buying kit.

My guess he is hoping the Newcastle model, of just doing enough to stay competitive but without overspending to achieve success, will apply at Ibrox.

Therefore T’Rangers will be financially supported enough to get back to the Premiership but there will be no major investment to make all or nothing charge on the title and Europe. Not unless a ‘marquee’ signing or signings will result in more shirt sales and Mike getting his cut/return.

Oh yes and there will be a plan B, C & D in case the Bears are not as compliant as the Geordies.

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MartinPosted on11:13 am - Oct 31, 2014


blu says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:09 am

I think you have that spot on.

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mcfcPosted on11:15 am - Oct 31, 2014


ecobhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 10:41 am

“I’m asking for fans with experience and skills in merchandising, design and manufacturing to come forward to help us build an enterprise which provides a real fans alternative.” More information to follow.

http://www.redandblackshirt.com
============================================================
Hang-on a minute – that looks a lot like the beloved City away shirt of old – the one we won most of our trophies in – and which Malcolm Alison and Joe Mercer borrowed from AC Milan to inspire our lads. At least if the bears buy them they’ll be slightly less conspicuous if they ever visit Manchester again on mass.

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AuldheidPosted on11:23 am - Oct 31, 2014


Doc

UEFA’S take on the matter is that RFCS membership of SFA was interrupted by insolvency.

Their view is that they cannot allow a club to shed debt and carry on as if they continue to be the same club/legal entity that was liquidated.

UEFA treat TRFC as a new club whom they are not prepared to allow into UEFA competition until they have accrued 3 years membership of their national association.

The reason for that is for the new legal entity that UEFA do recognise, the opportunity to build confidence at UEFA that they have produced a credible financial history over 3 years so that when accounts are presented as part of annual UEFA licensing, UEFA can have some confidence the club applying will not go belly up during UEFA competition.

It’s all in Article 12 of UEFA FFP.

As regards UEFA approving by saying nothing they a) need not as their rules say it. b) their policy is to allow national associations to govern their domestic game without direct UEFA interference. They way they do have influence is to reject clubs who fail FFP tests from UEFA games.

As regards SFA membership that was transferred under SFA discretion . There was no need to do so as the rules of the time allowed a club joining the SFL to apply for Associate membership of SFA within 14 days of joining SFL leading to full SFA membership in 5 years.

The commercial disadvantages of adopting this approach are obvious and I’ll bet the discretionary alternative was a condition of CG buying in.

Commercial imperative drove everything and drove over the sporting integrity element that makes sport sport.

The same imperative then reversed over the dead body of integrity in handling the LNS enquiry.

Restoring integrity is important to some of us probably because we appreciate it’s value.

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LurkPakPosted on11:25 am - Oct 31, 2014


Once in awhile we hear this drivel about Celtic fans wanting Rangers back and Scottish football really needs it blah blah….

We don’t hear enough about the fact that outwith Celtic, 4 other teams have accumulated 20+ points so far this season, twice as many as last year and 2 clubs on a point more (23) than last years best at this time (Inverness with 22). A more competitive league has started to take shape as the Old Firm no longer exists to squabble over the best young players to sit on the bench.

5 teams on 20 points or more, the highest number of clubs on that tally at this stage of the season than any season this millennium. I did not look further back than that but I would say that is progress and is most certainly not ‘Armageddon’.

With regards to Celtic fans wanting to play TRFC, media driven nonsense. Aside from the couple of individuals on this forum making outlandish claims, I do not know or have heard of any other Celtic fans who want anything to do with them. I personally have not held a season ticket since we occupied Hampden but of the 5 other close friends who hold one, none of them (or their associates in the surrounding areas at matches) are happy at the prospect of playing TRFC at all.

As Doc says, the game will happen (as long as TRFC still exist!), however I have to disagree with the opinion that history will show they never died. On the contrary, history will show they vanished from the top league and appeared in the bottom one. There was no relegation of any sort. No amount of lawyer chicanery will convince future generations they are the same club. If they were the same club, they would never have had to leave the top league. The did, because they aren’t and never will be.

The most telling aspect of this saga I feel is actually the fans opinions. No fans of other clubs believe they are the same club. Indeed, many of their own fans no longer believe the lie either and that is crucial. If your own support don’t swallow it, why do you think anyone else would?

Sigh. If only SpivCo had operated differently on it’s way up. I never agreed with the manner of their entry to the league at all but I could accept that if they progressed with some semblance of honesty and decency.

Instead, it’s been a wastefully expensive journey of intimidation and lies all the way through each league, pointing fingers whilst picking the fans pockets. If another administration occurs then I will be very interested to see the SFA’s handling (or not) of the fallout.

Even if it doesn’t come to administration, how any fan can claim glory from anything they have done is beyond me. It’s like America picking on Shetland for goodness sake. How very brave and strong. Even worse to act like winning is any sort of achievement on those terms.

On a slightly different note, during the TRFC game against Falkirk (I think), the commentator wet himself when TRFC scored stating “Oooooh Rangers, the lifeblood of Scottish football”. Even the TRFC fans in the room looked ashamed and one of them laughed. “We are the lifeblood of Scottish fitba? So it’s dead as well then?” 😀 I would suggest that the average TRFC fan in the street is not helped by ludicrous outbursts like that as all fans are the lifeblood of Scottish football, not the clubs and certainly no individual club.

Discuss 😉

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ecobhoyPosted on11:28 am - Oct 31, 2014


blu says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:09 am
Martin says:
October 31, 2014 at 10:45 am

So now we know who has been buying all the Rangers Int shares in the last few days.
=====================================================
Martin, I don’t think we do know who’s been buying the shares. Would Mr Taylor simply be signing off for Morgan Stanley acting on behalf of clients unnamed?
====================================
I would assume Mr Taylor is merely the contact person at Morgan Stanley who may technically be the shareholder but we don’t know who their anonymous client is who presumably provided the dosh for the shares.

I very much doubt that Morgan Stanley has decided to take a punt on the shares using its own money 😆

What we do know is that on 29 October the 3% notification threshold was passed when the shareholder reached 3.2% through holding 2,575,000 shares.

We don’t know whether the shareholder was an existing one who bought more shares and passed the 3% threshhold on 29 October or whether it is an entirely new shareholder entering the market.

Still with 3.2% I would be demanding a seat on at least one of the boards and 50% of a non-cancellable onerous contract 😆

Possibly a new directorship hopeful lining-up a bit of firepower when he gets on the Board?

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tykebhoyPosted on11:32 am - Oct 31, 2014


@mcfc there will be absolutely no possibility of blaming Chelsea fans again though.

On Tonev and HIS appeal backed by Celtic. I agree with Jimmci, Tonev has had 3 starts and 5 substitute appearances and is at present not even regularly getting a bench warming slot. That’s a worse appearance record than Kayal and Birton so hardly a player Celtic will be desperate to have available. I’d be surprised if he is in the ICT match day squad.

But to be clear if guilty 7 matches is the least he should get and he should be packed off back to Birmingham as soon as contractually possible.

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SmugasPosted on11:33 am - Oct 31, 2014


Wot Auldheid said!

Re the share trades, Mr Taylor of Morgan Stanley was presumably buying for a client in the same way Mr/Mrs (Smith) bought via BNP Paribas for Mike Ashley/MASH.

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wottpiPosted on11:34 am - Oct 31, 2014


So in terms of who controls T’Rangers it seems its a battle between

http://www.sportsdirect.com/football-shirts/scottish-league-football-shirts/rangers-football-shirts

(Note, there are 10 pages worth of tat)

&

http://www.redandblackshirt.com

All very laudable but I wonder who Ray Winstone would put his money on?

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mcfcPosted on11:38 am - Oct 31, 2014


tykebhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:32 am
@mcfc there will be absolutely no possibility of blaming Chelsea fans again though.
====================================
🙂 yeah – have those lost Chelsea fans found their way home yet – assume they put Staamford Bridge in their satnav and ended-up in East Yorkshire then got to Manchester by dead reckoning. They could be in Mongolia by now for all we know.

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tykebhoyPosted on11:41 am - Oct 31, 2014


ecobhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:28 am

What we do know is that a purchase of only 2000 shares crossed the threshold so strictly speaking it was an existing shareholder but over what period the other 2,753k shares were accumulated is unkownn

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scottcPosted on11:41 am - Oct 31, 2014


blu says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:09 am
4 0 Rate This

Martin says:
October 31, 2014 at 10:45 am

So now we know who has been buying all the Rangers Int shares in the last few days.

http://www.investegate.co.uk/rangers-int-f-c–plc–rfc-/rns/holding-s–in-company/201410311021378227V/
Martin, I don’t think we do know who’s been buying the shares. Would Mr Taylor simply be signing off for Morgan Stanley acting on behalf of clients unnamed?

I notice it is a Hong Kong phone number that is provided. This will be the man http://hk.linkedin.com/pub/george-taylor/98/300/772 MD at Morgan Stanley. Almost certainly holding for somebody else

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ecobhoyPosted on11:47 am - Oct 31, 2014


mcfc says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:15 am
ecobhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 10:41 am

“I’m asking for fans with experience and skills in merchandising, design and manufacturing to come forward to help us build an enterprise which provides a real fans alternative.” More information to follow.

http://www.redandblackshirt.com
============================================================
Hang-on a minute – that looks a lot like the beloved City away shirt of old – the one we won most of our trophies in – and which Malcolm Alison and Joe Mercer borrowed from AC Milan to inspire our lads. At least if the bears buy them they’ll be slightly less conspicuous if they ever visit Manchester again on mass.
============================================

Interesting that they haven’t surmounted the rampant lion crest with 5-stars.

I hope that was a conscious decision rather than an oversight and if intended is a hopeful sign for me in many ways.

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tykebhoyPosted on11:50 am - Oct 31, 2014


re above comment 200k was the threshold crosser and 2375k was the existing holding . I transposed two crucial numbers :sad:. My point on the bulk of the shares is still valid though

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DocPosted on11:52 am - Oct 31, 2014


LurkPak says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:25 am

With regards to Celtic fans wanting to play TRFC, media driven nonsense. Aside from the couple of individuals on this forum making outlandish claims, I do not know or have heard of any other Celtic fans who want anything to do with them. I personally have not held a season ticket since we occupied Hampden but of the 5 other close friends who hold one, none of them (or their associates in the surrounding areas at matches) are happy at the prospect of playing TRFC at all.

=========================================================================

So what do you think the uptake from Celtic fans will be if;

a)We draw them in the cup on Sat.
b)We meet them in the final.
c)The next time we play at Celtic park.

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MartinPosted on11:53 am - Oct 31, 2014


All the major players still in the game…George Taylor added to the list. (no idea who he is representing)

http://www.rangersinternationalfootballclub.com/share-information

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SmugasPosted on11:53 am - Oct 31, 2014


Lurkpak

Discuss!

Excellent point well made (although purely in the interests of fairness watch out for the anecdotal Falkirk (I think) story at the end 😈 )

I think there is a deeper reason for the competitive league this year than the simple ‘bench warmers’ example you give, absolutely valid though it is. Someone much more knowledgeable than I (not that that narrows it down much) once explained his theory to me that a dictatorship, whether in politics or football is far more easily removed than an oligarchy. His reasoning was simple. The second a dictator lets his game slip the peasants are there ready to pull his statue down with glee. With an oligarchy that is far less likely to happen. Firstly party 1 knows damn fine that a well resourced party 2 (rather than a simple peasant rabble) is ready and very willing to jump on his mistake, hence complacency is less likely. Secondly, if it happens, the peasants (who are presumably in the majority, we usually are!) are still no better off since you simply replace one oligarch for another.

He specifically stated that the worst of all worlds was two co-dependent but also co-habiting oligarchs.

Apologies for the for the political inference, that was not my intention. If this competitive league is given time to develop itself it could be a very tidy little league indeed. God forbid it might even be considered sponsorable one day :irony: :irony: :irony: . Will it ever be as popularly followed as the helicopter sunday series? Well in tv/spectator numbers possibly not, that basically requires a generational change.

My eventual point being at no point did I give my personal approval to ‘the powers’ to specifically avoid any such change from taking root.

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TartanwulverPosted on11:57 am - Oct 31, 2014


Totally off topic, and obviously in no way related to any footballing matters here in Scotland, but an amusing cartoon nevertheless

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=11183799&cc=11131977

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SmugasPosted on12:08 pm - Oct 31, 2014


I know I’m going to regret this Doc, but who’s we?

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bluPosted on12:12 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Lurpak
Auldheid
John Clark
==============
Re. the next Celtic/Rangers match.
The views offered by all three of you are obviously heartfelt and, in my view, you de-construct the nonsense that has been Rangers/Scottish football authorities conduct in recent years accurately – I agree with the facts and sentiments (proper application of the rules without fear or favour etc.) you lay out.

Sadly, however, I fear that the fact that it’s ‘right’ doesn’t mean that Doc’s assessment of the wider response from both Celtic and Rangers to the prospect of a return to the OF is wrong. Ecobhoy yesterday pointed me in the direction of Rangers forums to witness the trepidation in that quarter of meeting Celtic just now. On viewing both Celtic and Rangers forums, there are undoubtedly lots of Celtic fans saying they never want it again and many Rangers fans fearful of getting walloped and keen to delay a match against Celtic. There are though lots of people looking forward to that old buzz (mostly just football buzz would be my observation, not quasi-religious idiocy).

I think it would be daft to ignore that reality but it shouldn’t alter the desire of those on TSFM to pursue those running Scottish football and the SMSM to get things right.

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easyJamboPosted on12:13 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Looking at the bigger trades in the last few days, there has been an upsurge since Friday 24th Oct (the day that Ashley made his offer).

Between 24th and 29th (threshold crossed), there were 13 trades of 50,000 or more, totalling 4.1M. Some of these will by “buys” while others will be “sells”, but I think that it is reasonable to assume that the Morgan Stanley holding was built up over those few days, with only the one that crossed the threshold needing to be disclosed.

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oddjobPosted on12:16 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Ecobhoy says

October31 2014 @ 11.47am

Red and Black shirts

They may not have used the five stars, but they have included the Nike “tick”.
I presume Nike have agreed to this ???

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Danish PastryPosted on12:17 pm - Oct 31, 2014


ecobhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:47 am

…Interesting that they haven’t surmounted the rampant lion crest with 5-stars.

I hope that was a conscious decision rather than an oversight and if intended is a hopeful sign for me in many ways.
—————

The whole thing is crying out for a ‘real Rangers man’ to have the balls to point out that they are pumping money into ‘Sevco’ and that there is an alternative. Not one, so far, has dared explode the myth created by Charles Green. What a chance for King, Murray, and the rest of them to make a bold statement of intent that they will help form real Rangers and would like to extend a hand of friendship to the rest of Scottish football and humbly ask for their support.

It would take a very hard-hearted soul not applaud and support this group of ‘Fleshers Haugh’ fans if they wanted to break out of the current neo-feudalism they are living under. Ashley could end up with a defunct and quite worthless IP stock and Charles & Co lose an income stream. Given time, they’d have to offload the stadium.

If there are bold leaders among the fans with a bit of vision, now is their time.

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SmugasPosted on12:18 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Blu,

I agree 100%.

Could the powers that be do anything to create that buzz for any of the other clubs in Scotland outside the big 2?

Also, does the business case “Eh naw we can’t coz they’re big and therefore we need to return to big” change at all when one of the participants (I hesitate to say benefactors) implodes spectacularly, in circumstances entirely of their own making?

RFC in whatever guise, deid or no deid (that’s for you doc 😉 ) potentially attract 40k. Hamilton in league leading guise attract 2k.

Who’s right?

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ecobhoyPosted on12:19 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Now that Somers has been thrust into the limelight by circumstance he’s becoming scarily like Malcolm Murray IMO.

I’ve been reading some of his mince in today’s papers and the following particularly caught my eye:

e said: ‘And obviously we are having a look at everything with the consultants. It’s a good opportunity to dig into everything while we are appointing these people’.

Jeesuz – how deeply have the secrets been buried at Ibrox? The old executive Board team were there for almost 12 months and Somers was there a well as the non-exec chair.

They had a 127 Day review to find out what was going on under the bonnet.

But now Somers says they have to dig deeper with the new ‘consultants’. Makes me wonder if the Ibrox bank of serried shredding machines have made short work of all copies of the Review and any documentation it turned-up. They bury the bodies deep at Ibrox it would seem.

If they had put all that effort into digging-over the Renfrewshire Moors then I’m sure they would have found a helluva lot more bodies 😆

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MartinPosted on12:20 pm - Oct 31, 2014


easyJambo says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:13 pm

That’s exactly my thoughts.

What is interesting is that it seems that none of the >3% holdings has been reduced. (unless there are further notices).

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scottcPosted on12:21 pm - Oct 31, 2014


oddjob says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:16 pm

As far as I recall they are official Nike shirts. They had a choice of ‘standard’ styles to choose from.

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BawsmanPosted on12:39 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Is it really 2 years ago today?………..Doesn’t time fly?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20141946

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nawlitePosted on12:43 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Aaaah, MCFC, the red and black striped strip that (old) City won most of their trophies in (not that there were many). At the time, I fell in love with City from up around Glasgow mainly because of Colin Bell. At the time, it was the red and black strip I had, not the sky blue. Followed them from a distance through relegations, near misses etc while everyone else had United, Liverpool etc as their English team (I wasn’t a glory hunter).

At first, with Mansour’s money, I thought it was good to finally get a bite at the cherry, but nowadays the whole ‘rich clubs win things’ piece just annoys me and I’m no longer in such thrall. On Wednesday, while I’d have been happy enough if City won, I was actually quite pleased that Newcastle beat them. It no longer feels like my City and it was good for a poorer team (moneywise!) to show that the money could be beaten. Of course, it probably just means they’ll go out and spend another few hundred million to make sure they’re more equipped to win things, so just making things worse.

Great memories and sad current events all in the one post….and not even a mention of RFC*!

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JoethebookiePosted on12:47 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Doc, your exact words earlier were:

Yes technically they are a new club born from the ashes of the old…

Therefore in later posts you are the flat Earther.

Rangers died, no matter how much you or others claim differently.

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mcfcPosted on12:49 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Unlevel Playing Field – Ophishal

“Ronny [Deila] would be 100 per cent right in his beliefs if it was a normal playing field. But I don’t think anyone can argue that in recent years, Scottish football has been anything but a normal playing field.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/297854-ally-mccoist-defends-rangers-cup-chances-after-deila-comments/

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ecobhoyPosted on12:49 pm - Oct 31, 2014


oddjob says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:16 pm
Ecobhoy says
October31 2014 @ 11.47am

Red and Black shirts

They may not have used the five stars, but they have included the Nike “tick”. I presume Nike have agreed to this ???
=================================================
I actually haven’t a clue but why don’t you contact the Rangers Supporters Trust and ask them?

At a guess I would imagine Nike could be making the shirts because they’ve been on sale since April/May IIRC bearing the ‘Tick’ Mark. I have a sneaking suspicion that even if Nike hadn’t picked up on a brand infringement then some helpful person at Ibrox might have alerted them 😆

The fact the shirts still have the Nike ‘tick’ suggests to me the use might well be official.

Still I think it’s worth looking at why red & black according to the sellers:

Red and Black are the iconic colours of the traditional Rangers socks, but they are also the colours of the ancient Burgh of Govan where Rangers play – To this day the Govan High School colours are red and black.

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LurkPakPosted on12:54 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Smugas

I don’t mind the political inference at all, this site is an education every day as far as I’m concerned. It’s all food for thought. 🙂

Doc

I’m not 100% certain, but I think the uptake will be very good for any game between the 2 teams, though many have specifically stated they will not go to Ibrox as they do not want any of their money going into that place so perhaps fewer will attend a match there.

Even though I don’t believe many fans want to play them, I’ve no doubt they will turn up to support Celtic as that’s what fans do. Many will see not turning up at Celtic park as depriving the team of support against what has become in many ways an enemy of the sport itself, both the club and it’s appalling manager. Many will also go to the game for the simple joy of singing zombie songs, which is sad but true. I suspect some also of dreaming of drubbing McCoists team very badly, something many would enjoy regardless of what team he manages.

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scapaflowPosted on12:54 pm - Oct 31, 2014


ecobhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:49 pm

I wish them every success. What emerges out of this is up to them, but, the gumption is to be welcomed

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MartinPosted on12:58 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Scott Semple @HongKongRanger · 47m 47 minutes ago
For anyone interested in George Taylor. He is a member of the @HongKongRangers and is a true bluenose & one of the good guys.

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bluPosted on1:00 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Smugas says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:18 pm

Who’s right?

Smugas, for Whyte’s actions alone RFC should have been kicked out of football. The weak managerialists at SFL/SPL/SFA, aided, abetted and directed by club chairmen flunked it. If the club chairmen (outwith Celtic) were real businessmen they would have stood on the neck of a wounded competitor and fought to be the first in the queue to replace them in the new Scottish football duopoly.

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neepheidPosted on1:01 pm - Oct 31, 2014


mcfc says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:49 pm
0 0 Rate This

Unlevel Playing Field – Ophishal

“Ronny [Deila] would be 100 per cent right in his beliefs if it was a normal playing field. But I don’t think anyone can argue that in recent years, Scottish football has been anything but a normal playing field.

=========================
Surely that comment brings the game into disrepute? I confidently await expeditious action from the SFA, those stern and staunch guardians of a level playing field in Scottish football. But don’t be too concerned, folks, I am definitely not holding my breath.

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jimlarkinPosted on1:08 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Firstly, well done Martin

Secondly, is it a “swissssh” and not a “tick”

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oddjobPosted on1:20 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Jimlarkin
Actually, it’s a “swoosh” ! :mrgreen:
Thanks

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scapaflowPosted on1:23 pm - Oct 31, 2014


It would seem Scottish Football’s best kept secret is the highly competitive Premiership.An inconvenient truth that doesn’t fit the #Armageddon mythos, I’m afraid

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SmugasPosted on1:47 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Scapa,

A highly competitive premiership is still not mutually exclusive to the notion of reduced revenues hence my Rangers Hamilton example earlier. The answer lies not in enforcing either one solution (a return to the way it originally was) or the other (enjoying a newbie title win en route to administration because of low crowds) but somewhere in between.

It is the failure to even countenance that an inbetween could even exist that has annoyed me so.

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Matty RothPosted on1:52 pm - Oct 31, 2014


scapaflow says:
October 31, 2014 at 1:23 pm
4 0 Rate This

It would seem Scottish Football’s best kept secret is the highly competitive Premiership.An inconvenient truth that doesn’t fit the #Armageddon mythos, I’m afraid

=========================

This is one of the most frustrating aspects for me Scapa.

The constant media barrage to perpetuate their favourite myths. Its destroying our sport and the sports journalists and editors involved should be ashamed of themselves.

We need desperately need sports journalists who have a love and respect of our national sport – not narrow minded, agenda driven, fantasists.

As topics of discussion go, the potential attendance at a TRFC vs Celtic game, or RST selling Red and Black tops are IMO mere fluff alongside the filthy rotting sheepskin rug of our myopic sports media which is of course sitting proudly upon the disease infested shag pile of our collective governing bodies.

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scapaflowPosted on1:54 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Smugas says:
October 31, 2014 at 1:47 pm

The comfortable oligarchy that ruined Scottish Football is something I don’t miss. There does need to be a middle way as you put it. Football has been living the bubble for a long time, the inevitable correction will be painful. Maybe all this nonsense has actually done Scottish Football an inadvertent favour, maybe, just, maybe we will be better prepared than most.

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essexbeancounterPosted on2:09 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Madbhoy24941 says:

October 31, 2014 at 9:28 am

….As for having far too much power for someone who only owns 9% of the shares…..I am not sure that is all he has, at least not in his own name or a company directly linked to him…

Food for thought….
=====================================================
Madbhoy…I think you have served up a veritable banquet…!

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MartinPosted on2:16 pm - Oct 31, 2014


http://www.ntnews.com.au/sport/rangers-pride-comes-to-darwin/story-fnk0b28u-1226812386045

I assume this is the chap with his name on the 3.2% holding in Rangers int.

It remains to be seen if he is actually the beneficial owner of the shares or represents a wider group of investors.

“Taylor had a corporate box at Ibrox for seven years before he emigrated to Australia in 2009.”

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MarcybhoyPosted on2:21 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Re Lurpak’s scientific survey of 5 mates.

I did my own (in the pub admittedly) after the game on Weds. Out of 9 grown men 6 were Celtic fans (4 ST holders), two were non ST holding bears and one was an Aberdeen fan. 5 out of the 6 Celtic fans were dying for the game (not missing them per se) but just buzzing for a meaningful game with atmosphere. The AFC fan wanted them in the final and the bears weren’t bothered as they have both become disengaged.

I think the point is this.

Folk want this game not cos they miss rangers but because they’ve been starved of meaningful, atmosphere heavy games for a long-time now. Again, I expect plenty of TD’s but there’s a whole generation of guys who grew up in the Jungle in the 80’s and early 90’s who just want that feeling of going mental when you score against rangers.

It’s maybe not rational or logical but it’s a primal feeling that can’t be ignored. The last time I felt like that was against Barca a couple of years ago. Way too long.

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essexbeancounterPosted on2:34 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Marcybhoy says:

October 31, 2014 at 2:21 pm
Again, I expect plenty of TD’s but there’s a whole generation of guys who grew up in the Jungle in the 80’s and early 90’s who just want that feeling of going mental when you score against rangers.

=====================================================
Marty…what about the older ones who “grew up in the Jungle” (?) in the 60’s and 70’s….? I think that most of us grew up and with the wisdom of age, realised just how corrosive the atmosphere in these games was, and that before you consider the impact of such tribal animosity on Glasgow and West of Scotland society.

Your analogy of the Barca game and atmosphere is well wide of the mark.

Sorry, but I was the first to TD you on this one.

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mcfcPosted on2:36 pm - Oct 31, 2014


nawlite says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Aaaah, MCFC, the red and black striped strip that (old) City won most of their trophies in (not that there were many)
==============================================================
As a kid I had as many posters on my wall of City in red and black as blue and white. And to be honest I’ve always preferred the red and black – there – I’ve said it – you can still buy them. Supporting City has never been for glory hunters – even in late 60’s, early 70′ – when we actually won quite a lot if you don’t mind 🙂

No, following City has always been more a mix of Zen meditation and asceticism. The other night brought back memories of the weekly swings between hot and cold, and between brilliant and hopeless. Me and my mates used to joke that City only ever signed identical twins – and you never knew whether they’d field the professional footballer or the one who was like the clumsiest kid as school. The last few games (CSKA, West Ham (FGS), Newcastle) have been a reminder of those good old days. Top players playing like clumsy kids.

As for big money in football – well that’s just the way it is these days. We’ve been lucky enough to be winners in that lottery – and it’s taking a while to adjust to winning stuff again after so long a gap. I’ve got to say though, the pleasure of lording it over Utd fans is priceless – we’re the noisy neighbours Fergie – get used to it. Hopefully the footballers will be in the team this weekend.

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essexbeancounterPosted on2:38 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Marty….apologies Marcy but edit function appears to have taken the afternoon off!
I would also add that I used to be physically sick after attending these matches!

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MarcybhoyPosted on2:43 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Essexbeancounter. You’re spot on. At times there was a corrosive atmosphere. Other times there was humour and decency. I met a guy on a no 62 bus one Saturday going to a game. We queued to get in the jungle together. He’s my best mate to this day. Sure, we used to ahve too much to drink and would sing songs that we knew weren’t right but we were daft young boys.

But then you grow up, get married, have kids. You man up enough to know that these songs are wrong and that there’s nothing to be embarrassed about if you keep quiet why the guy next to you is shouting about killing British soldiers.

Doesn’t change the fact that the reason you started going to the games in the first place was cause you loved the noise and camaraderie. What pray tell is wrong with wanting a bit of that back?

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wildwoodPosted on2:50 pm - Oct 31, 2014


I haven’t posted in a while as I’ve become incredibly disillusioned with this slow zombie walk that the vast majority of people in and around football are on as we await the return of a club from Govan.
I’m pissed off at the clubs (as I’ve argued before) for taking zero radical steps to improve or change the game in the absence of a club from Govan. No sponsorship, not even a stopgap, no changes in voting structure, no ideas implemented on wealth distribution. The bulk have just floated on waiting for the return of four ‘old firm’ pay days for their club. The absolute height of slothdom. Quite happy to wait till the school bully comes back from detention to start taking the beatings again.
I’m on the verge of walking away from the game altogether. The atmosphere in and around Fir Park at the moment is grim. Too many people with no patience, memories or guts. We’re overdue a bad run – it’s just disappointing to see how quickly a fan base can turn. That’s all playing into it.

All I can see right now is every element of football or the establishment side stepping every difficult question the Sevco debacle throws up. I’m more convinced now, as pessimistic as it sounds, that they will be aided into the top flight by anyone who can, where there are outstanding issues to be addressed they’ll shimmy round ant the majority of Scottish Football and the football supporting public will welcome the back.
Happy Days / Ker-Ching etc.

Sorry ladies and gents. I think I’m about ready for the off.

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TaysiderPosted on2:53 pm - Oct 31, 2014


mcfc says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:49 pm

Re McCoist interview, I’ve just had a quick look at the Deila interview on STV. Following an opening question “Why are you reluctant to face Rangers” putting words into Deila’s mouth, about 50 seconds in:

“But you understand why everybody is looking forward to a Rangers Celtic semi final?”

Errr, no, not everybody is. I’m not, I suspect a lot of certainly Celtic fans are not (and maybe TRFC fans too) are not and I’m even more sure that many working for the police in Glasgow and A & E in the hospitals aren’t much either. Just my humble opinion of course.

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AllyjamboPosted on2:53 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Doc,

As many here could, I’m sure, attest to, I do not like TRFC, nor did I like RFC, but, if I could (I live too far away and work weekends anyway) attend the game next month between Hearts and TRFC, I would. You see, like many Celtic supporters, and Aberdeen supporters, and Dundee United supporters etc, I love to watch my club playing, and would watch them regardless of the opposition, even regardless of how much I detest the opposition. To be honest, I can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t go to support their team just because they don’t like, or even detest, the opposition, though I would defend their right not to go.

The thing is, there will be Celtic supporters at that first Celtic v TRFC match (if it takes place) who will go because it’s Rangers – supporters, that is, at the other end of the ground! They are the same supporters, the hated supporters, who lorded it while their club cheated their way to umpteen titles. That was what made the difference in the days of the Old Firm matches, – the opposition supporters and not the clubs, or the football. The hate-fest will remain the same, regardless of how old the club in blue is. The supporters and the hatred, on both sides, remains the same. The dread in the hospitals will remain the same, as it will for the battered wives, and, of course, the songs will remain the same. Scotland’s shame remains the same. It is not something for sane people to look forward to, but everyone has the right to go along and support their team, no matter what they think of the opposition, or who they consider them to be.

You are probably correct, there will be a near full house for the first Celtic v TRFC match, but you will be in a small minority if you are there under the belief your club is playing against Rangers.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on3:08 pm - Oct 31, 2014


tykebhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:41 am
ecobhoy says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:28 am

What we do know is that a purchase of only 2000 shares crossed the threshold so strictly speaking it was an existing shareholder but over what period the other 2,753k shares were accumulated is unknown
…….
We are dealing with Spivs
So nobody bought 2000 shares in order to mount a takeover
Nope
They were bought because exceeding 3% required a handy RNS to be released
In Spiv world
This is a signal to some other Spivs that Morgan Stanley are in play fronting a buying operation for one of the Spivs The pretence is that some other Spiv holder has just succumbed and sold around 3%
The pretend message?
The Seller of 3% to MS reckons 20p a share now is better than around 25p/share from a share of the assets in liquidation
However
Never take an AIM RNS at face value and certainly not one released by RIFC
These guys tell lies for a living
So do not be surprised if this turns out to be as shuffle of the same shares backwards and forwards between Spivs
But Surely MS aren’t Spivs or wouldn’t front for a Spiv?
Yep they are and Yep they would

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LurkPakPosted on3:13 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Blu (sorry i missed your post earlier)

I agree, it’s the buzz at matches fans miss, not the club or the team they are playing. A buzz we used to have for games against Aberdeen, Hearts, Dundee United.

Marcybhoy

Scientific is being generous! 😀

As with Blu, you point out that it’s the atmosphere that is wanted, not the club.

Everyone misses that kind of buzz and it’s part of why Champions League games are so loved, the atmosphere is unlike anything felt during any league match in a long long time.

Maybe it’s a kind of cognitive dissonance, nobody wants to play them, but that won’t stop many from enjoying it nonetheless.

Consider also the part the media will play in stoking tensions prior to any match between the two sides. Love them or Loathe them, they contribute to the atmosphere of these matches in no small measure and if even half of the column inches given over to this purpose were used to promote other teams and games then perhaps interest in our league would not have dwindled to current levels.

(I’m chatting to a bunch of folk via other online channels at the moment so apologies for taking so long to post this!)

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Bill1903Posted on3:15 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Allyjambo says
You are probably correct, there will be a near full house for the first Celtic v TRFC match, but you will be in a small minority if you are there under the belief your club is playing against Rangers.
————————————-
Trouble is only anonymous Internet bampots come out and say it. (Or like Phil safely out of the country!) Look what happened to Jim Spence when he hinted otherwise.

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MartinPosted on3:17 pm - Oct 31, 2014


The ‘old firm’ nonsense being pushed hard.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/7969-old-firm-dream-reignited?

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andygraham.66Posted on3:41 pm - Oct 31, 2014


You can’t really blame Rangers* for wanting to resurrect the idea of the Old firm derby.

Its whether Celtic do the same thing, that we have to take note of, as that is a game changer

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ParadisebhoyPosted on3:54 pm - Oct 31, 2014


andygraham.66 says:

October 31, 2014 at 3:41 pm
You’re right Andy . As a Celtic Supporter I would be devastated if my club ever uses the term “Old Firm” in relation to TRFC .

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StevieBCPosted on4:26 pm - Oct 31, 2014


wildwood says:
October 31, 2014 at 2:50 pm

Sorry ladies and gents. I think I’m about ready for the off.
==============================================================
I hear what you’re saying ww, but I prefer to hold on a wee bit longer and be optimistic [naive ?].

Like many other Bampots, I have supported Scottish football since childhood.
I am thoroughly sickened about RFC/TRFC and the SFA in particular.
However, before I walk away from an almost lifetime’s interest…

In terms of personnel: Ogilvie retires/goes to FIFA next year. Both Regan and Doncaster are probably overdue their next move to boost their cv’s. So those 3 could be gone ‘soon’.

In terms of the clubs’ input to the SFA and the whole SFA set-up?
I am hoping there will be a radical change there – but being realistic, it may only happen if/when the Tartan Army deserts Hampden for maybe different reasons, and the SFA desperately need the money.

As far as TRFC goes: there might be the initial novelty/curiosity about a Govan club playing in the top league and against CFC. But IMO, that will quickly dissipate when they can’t compete and dominate the trophies. TRFC could be a perennial runner-up or mid-table club. Then there is always the possibility of the club disappearing altogether – again !

But I do agree with you ww. If TRFC ‘returns’ as Rangers and nothing changes in the medium term wrt the SFA and the member clubs’ input, then a lot more people will walk away for good – myself included.

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DocPosted on4:29 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Smugas says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:08 pm

I know I’m going to regret this Doc, but who’s we?

==================================================

Sorry Smugas, but I am sure you know what I mean.

But to humour you… I am referring to Celtic.

Now please humour me and let me know your answers.

😀 😀

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erniePosted on4:43 pm - Oct 31, 2014


I love TSFM and I am impressed that it can present a feeling of deja vu whilst discussing the present and, at the same time, paint such a dismal picture of the future.
Deja vu: Celtic/Rangers fans out bidding each other to say how important their respective clubs are while the MSM cream themselves over (and I quote the BBC from Dec 2012 here) “the only game that matters”.
The present: Celtic/Rangers fans out bidding each other to say how important their respective clubs are while the MSM cream themselves over “the only game that matters”.
A dismal future: Celtic/Rangers fans out bidding each other to say how important their respective clubs are while the MSM cream themselves over “the only game that matters”.
Meanwhile the rest of us, in blissful ignorance, get on with armageddon.

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SmugasPosted on4:51 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Doc says:

October 31, 2014 at 4:29 pm

Smugas says:
October 31, 2014 at 12:08 pm

I know I’m going to regret this Doc, but who’s we?

==================================================

Sorry Smugas, but I am sure you know what I mean.

But to humour you… I am referring to Celtic.

Now please humour me and let me know your answers.

😀 😀

To remind everyone the questions were:

So what do you think the uptake from Celtic fans will be if;

a)We draw them in the cup on Sat.
b)We meet them in the final.
c)The next time we play at Celtic park.
__________________
OK will do. Firstly I spotted what I assume is a typo that “we” is the club currently pertaining to be “Rangers.” Apologies if I got that wrong.

Q1/ The uptake of cup semi final tickets will be fairly quick by the CFC support. They have a pretty good record in this trophy with an added nuance of some recent ‘wibbles’ to be avoided.

Q2/ I would also expect them to purchase final tickets fairly sharply assuming they navigate the semi. See above for reasons.

Q3/ Re Celtic park – ah I see what you did there 😉 I’m not aware that the club currently bearing the RFC standard has played at Celtic Park before? Notwithstanding the point Yes there will be many thousands of RFC* fans pleading otherwise and I would expect a large CFC support to reply in equally good natured banter that they are misleading themselves.

In fact, now you mention it I believe there’ll probably be a high demand for the tickets for fans wishing to avail themselves of this opportunity.

When I think about it more I think this is actually the answer you wanted but to a question that you didn’t actually ask and were possibly avoiding.

Glad to help.

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BawsmanPosted on4:53 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Stollen unashamedly from the Scotsman forum

“Gersatz”

ersatz
[er-zahts, -sahts, er-zahts, -sahts] IPA Syllables
Examples Word Origin
adjective
1.
serving as a substitute; synthetic; artificial:
an ersatz coffee made from grain.
noun
2.
an artificial substance or article used to replace something natural or genuine; a substitute.

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MartinPosted on4:53 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Another 100K shares traded at 20p/share this afternoon.

Lots of sizeable trades since the Mike Ashley loan agreement.

Have the ‘real Rangers men’ changed their tactics?

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scapaflowPosted on4:58 pm - Oct 31, 2014


StevieBC says:
October 31, 2014 at 4:26 pm

As you say, Father Time will take care of those currently in the top jobs.

It doesn’t actually matter which group of bums, stiffs and wasters have the top jobs, unless the culture of both the SFA and its illegitimate child, the SPFL change. Absent that cultural revolution, then the behaviours won’t change, even when the faces do.

In the meantime we can expect more of the same. I suspect a catalyst for change, might be the entry of TRFC into the Premiership, and all the confident expectations of increased revenues melting away, as the clubs finally realise, that TRFC is striding about pantless.

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upthehoopsPosted on5:10 pm - Oct 31, 2014


I do hope if Celtic get drawn against The Rangers tomorrow it doesn’t derail this blog.

In terms of importance to Scottish Football, I like to think if any lesson has been learned since 2012 it is that the wee club is equally important to the big club. Without the wee club fans, along with the big club fans, letting their Directors know the consequences of fast tracking newco we all know what would have happened.

If you ever read this blog First Minister (and who knows!), let me tell you every club is part of the fabric of Scottish society, whether they are watched by 300, 3,000, 30,000 or more. Maybe your pals in the Sunday Herald might even give you space to redress the balance!

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TorquemadaPosted on5:22 pm - Oct 31, 2014


😯 Dear God, that has to be in the running for the most self-unaware post in the history of the internet.

See me, ah’m great, so am ur!

Top 1%? Get you!

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scapaflowPosted on5:23 pm - Oct 31, 2014


upthehoops says:
October 31, 2014 at 5:10 pm

I don’t get the argument, sooner or later Celtic & TRFC will meet, some folk won’t go, some will go reluctantly, some will look forward to something they feel they have missed.

That it passes off peacefully, & doesn’t disgrace Scottish Football is really all I ask

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TorquemadaPosted on5:27 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Obviously I was referring to this post:

Doc says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:12 am

But none of you had to wonder, did you? 😀

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John ClarkPosted on5:28 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Doc says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:12 am
‘..Thanks for the advice John…..’
———–
Doc, there is probably not a one of us on this blog who does not grieve for the horrendous experiences that you describe yourself as having been exposed to as a youngster; and who does not rejoice at the success you have nevertheless made of your life.Good on you, and you are right to be quietly proud.
I just find it a little puzzling though, that as someone so variously wronged, you seem to be very ready to accept wrongdoing by persons in any kind of position of trust-such as Football Authorities or Majority-shareholders in football clubs.
I accept, of course, that their kind of wrongdoing is not directly ‘personal’.
But it HAS corroded, and continues to corrode any sense of real trust or belief that the Sport which many of us pay, and have paid over a lifetime, good money to see has not been fundamentally corrupted and rigged first by one now dead team, secondly, by the lack of proper governance that allowed that to happen, and thirdly, by the highly dubious, secret and unquestionably partisan arrangements made by the authorities to avoid taking the proper disciplinary action against the cheating club AND by their truly breathtaking brazenness in permitting a wholly new club to claim to be the dead, undisciplined (except by the market!) cheating club.
Those are wrongs that cannot just be lightly shrugged off. The wrongdoers deserve no peace and no rest from persistent and insistent reminders that they are sullied men, whose words are not to be heeded or trusted.
Change must be made, and those guilty of the wrongdoing ( and they know who they are) must be dismissed from office.Sooner rather than later.

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SmugasPosted on5:37 pm - Oct 31, 2014


There’s more than just you want it to slip back into the routine Scapa, it’s just the reasons and justification that differs widely!

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HaywirePosted on5:42 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Doc says:
October 31, 2014 at 11:12 am

I have indeed been going blithely on my uncritical (although sometimes critical) way.

I have spent my time working on things that I can truly influence and not chasing lost causes.

This has taking me on a journey from the bottom 1% in the population in terms of wealth/social status to the top 10%.

From a family on benefits, free school dinners, witnessing/subjected to horrific violence/abuse, having suicidal parents (both successful), imprisoned parent (one for murder) and spouses (drugs and firearms), being written off by societies sanctimonious prophets.

To someone who has never been out of work, never been in trouble with the law, is considered to be a successful business owner and has qualifications that put me in the top 1% of our population.

So go blithely on my uncritical way I will and be proud to do so.

——————————————————————

Doc,

You have my sympathy, but not just for the reasons stated above.

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HaywirePosted on5:44 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Doc,

AND I don’t agree with you!

John C.,

I think that you have it spot on.

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mcfcPosted on5:50 pm - Oct 31, 2014


Gypaetus Barbatus

It’s widely accepted that Mike Ashley is only at Ibrox to make money from the wreckage. But what can possibly be left for him after the spivs have done their best / worst. Why would they now stand back and let Mike provide emergency funding and “gain control” and profit when they could have done the same. The answer is of course that Mike is a rather different species evolved to exploit a rather different niche in the ecosystem. Or to put it another way, he can reach the money that other spivs (and onerous contractors) cannot reach. It’s notable that before he arrived most commentators had thoroughly exhausted analogies of carrion and carcasses. But I remember someone on Random Thoughts, apologies I can’t remember who, pointing out one scavenger that almost defies believe in its ability to make a good living from what carnivores, vultures, rats and insects have left as stripped, finished, worthless.

May I introduce to you Gypaetus Barbatus aka the Bearded Vulture aka the Lammergeier aka the bone eating vulture – which lives almost exclusively by crushing the bones that other scavengers have walked away from.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/58253/11-facts-about-bone-eating-bearded-vulture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearded_vulture

And if you are wondering, Lammergeier is German for “lamb-vulture” – no really – honest – wouild I lie to you!

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