Harper Macleod and LNS

A guest blog by Auldheid

In the previous blog (http://www.tsfm.scot/how-not-to-govern-scottish-football/), TSFM wrote to Harper Macleod raising questions on their advice supplied to the then SPL Board in February 2013 when the Lord Nimmo Smith Decision re use of EBTs and side letters was announced.

A reply was received from Mr McKenzie on 18th September the gist of which can be discerned in the following reply sent on 4th October.


Dear Mr McKenzie                                                                                                    4th Oct 2014

Thank you for your response of 18th September to my letter of 5th September regarding the consequences of information on the true nature of EBTs for Craig Moore, Ronald De Boer and Tor Andre Flo being withheld from your good selves when establishing in 2012 the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission into the use of EBTs and side letters by Rangers FC from 1999.

In recognition of the points you made about publishing your responses on line, your letter of 18th September will not be published although readers of TSFM will be able to gather from this reply which is being published what those points were.

Anonymity.
It is a matter of real regret that not only was anonymity required, but that Harper MacLeod were used as a conduit to try and elicit a reply from the SPFL or SFA. In terms of anonymity there were three factors at play:

  1. Security. The individuals asking the questions are aware that any raised concerning Rangers can attract threats from the worst of the Rangers support. We know that they are a minority but nevertheless, as we have recently witnessed, some are ready to turn threat into action. It is a condemnation of Scottish society that fear has played its part in preventing the truth being revealed about Rangers FC’s use of EBTs since 1999.
  2.  

  3. Collective. The Scottish Football Monitor is made up of supporters of many clubs in Scottish football and is in effect a collective. The letters reflect to a large extent the thinking and feelings of the majority of readers. If a name is required for any future correspondence from the SPFL or SFA, then it can be addressed to Mr John Macnab, and a Post Box address can be supplied if necessary in addition to this e mail address press@tsfm.scot.
  4.  

  5. Accountability. The final factor is the most important because it is why Harper Macleod were approached. It was not just because you were responsible for commissioning the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry, but because there is absolutely no form of direct accountability by either the SPFL or the SFA to the supporters of Scottish football clubs. Correspondence can be ignored or the content not fully addressed and the customer who pays the wages of both organisations has no means of redress at all. Had there been some oversight in say an Ombudsman type role, it would not have been necessary to involve Harper MacLeod and indeed your good self. We sincerely apologise for doing so along with our thanks for actually responding to our correspondence, but we would like the reasons for our approach being addressed by the clubs who make up both footballing authorities. We hope you pass this particular point on to both SFA and SPFL.

 

Provenance.
You ask what the provenance is of the information/evidencethat you were given. The answer is we do not know, it was taken from material uploaded mainly in June last year for purposes unknown. Whilst its provenance may be in doubt there is no question as to the veracity of the content of the material itself.

This, when put together, sets out the narrative that prompted our correspondence. This question of provenance simply looks like an excuse for football authority not investigating what the material suggests took place when Duff and Phelps were asked to supply all documents relating to EBTs (no distinction being made) from the inception of the SPL.

Even if the material itself could not be used directly, it should have prompted questions that would have either corrected the narrative or established that the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission was indeed misled either by accident or design, when those documents were not supplied.

The SPFL must surely have the powers to seek the original documents from BDO and the SFA cannot be totally impotent in that regard either.

Then there is the personal knowledge of current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie to draw on. A simple statement explaining why he saw no reason to make any distinction between the irregular DOS REBTs that he launched in 1999 and the later MGMRT EBTs of which he was a beneficiary would surely help clear the air?

Existence of Side Letters.
We note that the Commission were aware of the existence of side letters to Moore, De Boer and Flo at the time of its decision of 28th February 2013 and these were taken into account when determining the appropriate sanction. The existence of side letters is not the issue that was raised in our previous correspondence, it was the nature of the EBTs that was the issue raised. In fact it would seem that the Commission themselves were confused by the switching from the irregular REBT ebts in 2002/03 to the MGMRT EBTs that are subject to further appeal with regard to regularity by HMRC.

The side letters to De Boer and Flo of 30th August and 23 November 2000 related to the DOS REBTs that they were both paid under. It is not known if they had subsequent side letters relating to the MGMRT EBTs , which is possible, but as set out in previous correspondence there were two distinctive types of EBTs and the side letters supplied relate to the earlier irregular type.

The position regarding the Moore EBT is interesting in that whatever EBT side letter was known to the Commission in February 2012 it could only have related to payments made to him under an accompanying side letter from the MGMRT ebts after 2002/03.

That Mr Moore was paid under the REBT scheme in 1999 is a matter of supplied evidence. However there is no record of any side letter in relation to the payment under the 1999 arrangement, which may or may not have been reported in the contract lodged with the SPL and SFA. It was the absence of any side letter in respect of this payment that prevented HMRC pursuing the tax due on it as they did for De Boer and Flo in what has become known as “the wee tax case. “ The evidence of deliberate concealment by the Murray Group of the side letters to De Boer and Flo allowed HMRC to seek repayment outside the normal 6 year time limit.

However the absence of a side letter or tax demand for Mr Moore does not mean this particular payment is not deserving of further scrutiny since

  1. It was an irregular payment that other clubs could not avail themselves of (as applies to the other two EBTs to De Boer and Flo)
  2.  

  3. It is not known if it was reported to the SPL/SFA under the registration rules of that period.

Finally thank you for forwarding our letter of 5th September and previous correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer. Hopefully any further correspondence will be between him and ourselves, first to our email address, later to a PO Box if required.

It is the hope of all readers of The Scottish Football Monitor that the SFA will stop hiding behind the provenance excuse, which is destroying any semblance of integrity and proper governance of Scottish football and they will use their powers to properly acquire the information that will set the record straight and in doing so start to restore some of the lost trust which is essential for the wellbeing of Scottish football.

John Macnab

TSFM

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Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,442 thoughts on “Harper Macleod and LNS


  1. TSFM, cheers for the apology, although should I post again I will try to make my point much clearer.


  2. ecobhoy says:
    November 3, 2014 at 3:49 pm
    scapaflow says:
    November 3, 2014 at 12:44 pm
    jimlarkin says:
    November 3, 2014 at 11:43 am
    I wonder what this signals in terms of A: Ashley’s intentions & B: Whether a deal has been done with SFA/SPFL re the Ashley control issue?
    =========================================================

    75% …… needed to disapply the pre-emption rights for existing shareholders so a critical figure for the two opposed camps.
    —————————————————————-
    Rather than speculate on what we don’t know; what do we know.
    On A.
    1. Ashley has a football and business reputation to maintain.
    2. Ashley suffers from ODD (Obsessive Deal Disorder) which means he must get the best deal possible no matter what.
    3. Ashley likes to control, especially the companies he is involved with.
    4. The Easdale Bloc have more than 25%.
    5. Ashley and Laxey have more than 25% combined.
    6. Ashley, Easdale Bloc and Laxey have more than 51% combined.
    7. The Board consisting of an Easdale Bloc representative, a Laxey representative and a self interest representative accepted Ashley’s drawdown facility offer and resigned the other 2 Directors who threatened Ashley’s control.
    What conclusions can logically be drawn from the above.
    i. If the Easdale Bloc do not wish to disapply the pre-emption rights then it will not happen.
    ii. If Ashley and Laxey do not wish to disapply the pre-emption rights then it will not happen.
    iii. If Ashley, Easdale Bloc and Laxey do wish to disapply the pre-emption rights then they require approx half of the other shares. Too many to buy so will either need to garner support (or put the willies up) from some of the other institutional investors and fan shareholders.
    iv. If iii. above then expect KBA to be in overdrive soon, post Accounts and pre-EGM, telling all and sundry about not only is it a great deal but the only deal available.
    On B.
    1. KBA spins “Rangers no more unless SFA/SPFL allow cuddly Mike to save them.”
    2. If that fails then the SFA/SPFL Rules have more holes than Phil Taylor’s dartboard and Ashley employs the best legal brains to fight his battles. He does lose sometimes but probably not to those with the backbone of a jellyfish.
    3. If that fails then like a lot of Ashley’s deals it will likely be take it or leave it – WE know he doesn’t really mean it but would the SFA/SPFL chance it?


  3. Big Pink says:
    November 3, 2014 at 7:00 pm
    ===============================

    I listened earlier to Hugh Keevins and Roger Hannah and their assertion that St Johnstone v Motherwell last Friday ‘proved’ the top league is unsustainable. The only thing that has been proven to be unsustainable these past three years is clubs living outwith their means. It’s a scandal they chose to focus on two such well managed clubs in this way.


  4. Castofthousands says:
    November 3, 2014 at 5:57 pm
    the taxman cometh says:
    November 2, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    “On the subject of image rights, I walked past a William hill today and it had posters in the window of us and sevco, whilst quite clearly being sevco I noticed the badge had been blurred out? Yet ours wasn’t?”
    ——————
    I noticed this as I was passing a bookies today (not sure which company). There were three players shown in the window posters; Celtic, Rangers and Liverpool. The Rangers scroll crest and five stars badge had been blurred but was still distinguishable for what it was. The Celtic and Liverpool logos were crystal clear.
    ===============================================
    I would assume thar whatever bookie is using the images would require to pay for the use of the pics and that would include the trade marks. It would be poor business IMO for any of the clubs involved to allow another business to us their trademarks to earn profits without a percentage going to the clubs.


  5. Danish,

    Pardon my ignorance, but which glaringly obvious reason is it to which you refer? Or are you rolling up the various reasons why one would support the old firm from a distance into one?

    Genuinely puzzled!

    Madbhoy24941

    Seriously? Your only issue with that piece is purely that Celtic arent’t mentioned in equally breathless tones?


  6. upthehoops says:

    November 3, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    Big Pink says:
    November 3, 2014 at 7:00 pm
    ===============================

    I listened earlier to Hugh Keevins and Roger Hannah and their assertion that St Johnstone v Motherwell last Friday ‘proved’ the top league is unsustainable. The only thing that has been proven to be unsustainable these past three years is clubs living outwith their means. It’s a scandal they chose to focus on two such well managed clubs in this way.
    ______________________________________________________________

    Of course anything at all is infinitely sustainable if all you have to do is dump debt and start again with a wee helping hand from the authorities smoothing over the bumps in the road.

    But St Johnstone and Motherwell don’t have that luxury – ergo they are unsustainable.


  7. Smugas says:

    November 3, 2014 at 8:38 pm
    —————————-

    No, that was not my only problem Smugas but there was enough said on the other stuff over the last days so just wanted to take the opportunity to point out one of my pet hates.

    What I hate most is that they label me as paranoid when in actual fact, it was them that started that fire. Unfortuantely I take the bait too easily….


  8. BP

    Yes they do. That is precisely the loophole you open when you ignore a liquidation.

    But I m guessing you knew that but have a soupçon of doubt that the same flexibility may not exist for others :mrgreen:

    The serious point being of course that even if it doesn’t exist for others the door is left wide open for the chosen one just to do it again. In fact you positively encourage it, especially if (apparently) we are all crying out for them to do it, you know, to make us sustainable n’that like no.


  9. MB 90210

    No worries! 😆

    My pet hate list grows by the day!


  10. Smugas says:

    November 3, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    BP

    Yes they do. That is precisely the loophole you open when you ignore a liquidation.

    But I m guessing you knew that but have a soupçon of doubt that the same flexibility may not exist for others :mrgreen:

    The serious point being of course that even if it doesn’t exist for others the door is left wide open for the chosen one just to do it again. In fact you positively encourage it, especially if (apparently) we are all crying out for them to do it, you know, to make us sustainable n’that like no.

    _________________________________________________________

    I think that over the last twenty years, since McCann saved Celtic from bankruptcy (pre administration days) there has been an increasing dependence of the MSM, particularly the print media, on the Old Firm. Consequently, more and more, other clubs have been marginalised – news-wise – and relegated to the status of irrelevance.

    Had the liquidation shoe been on the green foot, I suspect that there would have been the same clamour for a regenesis. To what extent it would have been seized on by the Celtic support I don’t know, but I’d like to think that reality, and a soupçon (great word that!) of humility would have seen a different attitude.

    I am convinced however that only two clubs would be afforded the infinite sustainability option. The rest? Absolutely not.

    Livingston fell foul of the same financial doping which eventually overstretched them as it did Rangers. Where are they now?


  11. Smugas says:
    November 3, 2014 at 8:38 pm
    2 2 Rate This
    ———–

    Well, it seems a bit rich of Keevins & co to talk down the two teams from last Friday’s TV match while focusing almost exclusively on their two pet teams. If they really wanted to encourage more local support they could dispense with the likes of ‘Motherwell through and through’ Dalziel who rarely mentions Motherwell, just as the BBC could dispense with their fake St Mirren supporter.

    The big two are also a magnet for fair weather glory hunters and the media encourage them by their glaringly obvious bias, imo.


  12. Dp

    Yes absolutely. And I’ve said before a game’s authorities supporting legitimate glories for some to hunt (at the expense of others) is bad enough but to positively ‘support’ illegitimate glories and to hanker for and pander back to them ASAP is absolutely unforgivable!

    (Apologies, I wasn’t sure if you were making some guarded ‘fabric of society’ comment and I was too naive to spot it)


  13. Already, the MSM has, in the biggest display of unselfconsciousness ever, gone totally overboard on the League Cup Semi-Final. Just one of them, as if the other one didn’t matter. They’re not even talking about the prospects of either team in terms of passage to the final. It’s all about stirring the pot so they can sell papers to a public which is ever increasingly ambivalent towards their product.

    Already amongst the few soundbites I have heard;
    “Deila doesn’t know what’s about to hit him!”,
    “This is rivalry on steroids”, and even
    “You’ve not seen proper hatred ’till you’ve been at one of these games”

    I really hope that the social media outlets, who are independent of the MSM, and have an increasing influence and readership, get the message out clearly that the print media – and some in the broadcast media – are guilty of deliberately heightening sectarian tension for their own personal financial gain.

    Call them out for what they are; rabble rousers, NEDs with laptops. A proper monitoring service at the Glasgow PF’s office would be watching for out for conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace. In my view, that is exactly what they are doing already.


  14. Don’t know what made me think of this or why the memory came back to me. 100% true story.

    A few years ago, before the RFC excrement became airborne, I was involved in a former players thing with some ex-Celtic guys. Two of them, who feature prominently in the media, were going on at some length about the football writers attempting to force through a St. Mirren player as POY. To be honest, I didn’t think the player mentioned deserved it, but the coup was averted when some hacks at the meeting, including my two ex-Celtic guys, threatened a walkout.

    “It really is ridiculous”, said one of the guys (one of the best footballers and worst haircuts of his generation);
    “the media in Scotland are so anti-Old Firm, you wouldn’t believe it!”

    “Oh aye”, said the other, “They absolutely hate Rangers and Celtic”

    My eyes could only roll so far 🙂 …

    … and irony can be quite painful :irony:


  15. Jean 😛 been lurking 😕 but tbh dumbfoonered ( my granny’s fave word ) by events 😥


  16. Brenda says:
    November 3, 2014 at 10:07 pm
    __________________________________________
    Not as lost as me Brenda!!! Anyway like you, probably fitting this in between all the other things women do 😉


  17. Having been an RFC/TRFC-saga obsessed Internet Bampot on here and RTC for 3 years, I really should know better… 😳

    Walking into work today, I considered that, for a change, I was wearing my favourite shoes: brown brogues.
    Then I remembered I have a blue blazer.
    And then I realised, with some alarm, that – on occasion – I have worn said brown brogues with my blue blazer !!

    …does that make me a bad person…? 🙄

    Have I been subconsciously afflicted by some sort of ‘-itis’ from overexposure to this blog ?! And can I sue TSFM ? 😉


  18. jean7brodie says:
    November 3, 2014 at 10:20 pm
    ‘…Anyway like you, probably fitting this in between all the other things women do 😉 ‘
    ———-
    Aw, hey,Jean, steady on. I had to come off the blog to drive Mrs C to Boots the chemist. AND then I ironed my own shirt and hoovered while she ‘lunched’ with the girls and I made my own ‘lunch’- a lousy wee Scotch pie that wisnae the size o’ a hauf-croon!

    Unlike the RIFC plc Board, though, I cannot lie. I did not multi-task, but had to do all those things serially. 😀


  19. With regard to Mr Findlay and his musings re the newco, and apologies if this has already been mentioned by other more learned posters. As an officer of an SPFL club surely Donald must be expecting a call from the conflicted one?


  20. StevieBC says:
    November 3, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    And then I realised, with some alarm, that – on occasion – I have worn said brown brogues with my blue blazer !!

    …does that make me a bad person…? 🙄
    ——————————————-
    No….just misguided…and if you get a late night knock on the door it’ll be the fashion police…. 😀


  21. Is the League Cup semi-final draw and the associated media coverage the biggest squirrel yet in the Rangers franchise financial saga, or are we rapidly approaching the endgame that makes the financial situation an irrelevence?

    One would have thought that with the corporate entity currently operating the Rangers franchise having had to take out a loan of £2M just to keep trading (only two months before the filing deadline and the last possible date for the AGM), that there would be a wee bit more interest in the press in the financial and corporate situation.

    To date, I have seen nothing to indicate how the going concern issue will be resolved in the short time remaining. There are also the ongoing issues with the NOMAD, revolving door in the boardrooms of TRFC Ltd and RIFC PLC, two more months’ payroll due by 31 December, etc etc.

    Mike Ashley must be thinking that Christmas has come early. Any questions about his intention for the franchise have suddenly vanished in a puff of smoke as the “old firm” genie appeared. Not only that, he has the press acting as unpaid Sports Direct sales agents by whipping up a frenzy amongst those most likely to purchase his merchandise. Someone posted earlier about the additional circulation figures generated by the gutter press by using the cover of a football match to stir up sectarian hatred; how much additional mechandise will be sold off the back of that self-same immoral reportage?

    The legitimisation of franchsing in Scottish football is almost complete, with widepread repetition of the liquidation survival myth and constant use the term “old firm” since Saturday, in an all out assault by those in favour of the franchising concept, aided and abetted by the complicit silence of those who enabled franchising, the architects of the Five Way Agreement.


  22. John Clark 😉 what would us ladies do without you, keep doing what your doing 😛 you’re doing a grand job 😉


  23. Big Pink says:
    November 3, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    Call them out for what they are; rabble rousers,
    ,,,,,,,,,
    Nope
    They are bogots with a capital B
    Anyone who salivates at the sight of bogotry is as guilty as the bogots they are witnessing
    And
    Anyone who believes overt displays of bogotry and violence are a price worth paying to sell newspapers or promote radio shows is the lowest of the low
    In my lifetime countless assaults have occurred and several people were murdered in the aftermath of these games
    Frankly
    Zero tolerance is the only way to cut out this cancer
    Starting with the removal of those in the governing bodies who are also tacitly supporting bogotry

    And if you think this is OTT
    Ask Yourself
    If fans of two mostly Muslim and mostly Jewish Teams playing in glasgow had the same bogotry pedigree would the football authorities have taken action by now?

    You bet they would
    Cos if they didn`t
    The government would have stepped in


  24. neebs67 says:
    November 3, 2014 at 10:57 pm
    ‘…… As an officer of an SPFL club surely Donald must be expecting a call from the conflicted one?’
    ———-
    Our Donald , himself quite an internally conflicted and sad soul, has a degree of self-awareness and honest self-assessment that certain best administrators and all round thoroughly decent chaps, who might just enjoy, according to Chick, a decent night out on a five-figure EBT, would seem to lack.

    The SFA will have to be quite careful in how they deal with Donald, who is no mug, and whose credentials as a ‘real’ Rangers supporter are as solid as Bomber’s, or Walter’s, or John’s.

    It may be fanciful, but it is possible that the very good lawyer ( the Cicero that I think is an essential part of Donald’s make-up) has concluded that the shabby, secret wheeling and dealing to accommodate a spurious new club and rig the evidence presented to LNS to avoid properly punishing the old club, has to be questioned, openly, as a matter of judicial propriety.

    It may have taken Donald some time to reach that conclusion ( he is, like all of us,reluctant to face the consequences of Truth when it jars against our personal desires), but the vulture-like greed-fest in which con-men and shysters are tearing the flesh and bone from the carcase/ carcass(?) of what used to be the Rangers [that he would follow,follow yea, up to his knees in …] has probably been too much for him to bear.

    And he has seen the light, as it were.

    I would like to think so.

    And I would like to think that the general run of ‘Rangers’ supporters would, however reluctantly, accept that it is for them, not barra-boy shysters, to start anew, and that they must now condemn the dishonourable, wicked doings of the dishonourable SDM and his betrayal of their old, cherished club into the hands of jackals and hyenas.


  25. It’s late and I’m very tired; apologies in advance.

    I am absolutely sick of it already. This cacophoney (see what I did there) of absolute pish from the scottish media, BBC included, is utter gash. Utter, utter shite. Archie MacPherson made my blood run cold today on Radio Scotland – they are utterly devoid of any thought other than scottish football equates to two clubs, and that’s the way it must remain. Chick Young is an utter embarrassment.

    Since I decided that enough was enough, I’ve not set foot at a game in over a year. I am ready to completely throw in the towel. Scottish Football is corrupt and run by a self-serving oligarchy, the position of which is supported by a similarly self-serving media. The result? A never ending cycle of planted stories and media hype that is simply destroying the game. A pox on them all.

    I am sick and tired of hearing stories about Rangers ready to fail (again). Apart from the bigotry, the real problem here is that our club chairmen do not give a flying duck for any of us. They are quite content to perform in a pre-arranged circus, with occasional bites at a dangled cherry (mixed metaphor sleepiness here!). They had an opportunity to realign Scottish football for the better; they should have had more courage and foresight.

    Unless Scottish football fans put their foot down and stop bleating about having to support “the team” no matter what, nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change. I find it incredible that we would simply put up with this without taking any collective action. The death of Scottish football will take a generation, but die it will because you can’t have a competitive sport that is inherently uncompetitive before a ball is kicked.

    All animals are equal, but some are clearly more equal than others. Well, not for me. My family is out. I’ll watch my football elsewhere. I refuse to lend my support to such blatant skulduggery.

    Danish Pastry – sorry I didn’t get back to you’re kind message. Glad the Queens fans left such a good impression, it was just terrific.

    I know I’ll regret this post in the morning.


  26. Not to make assumptions, or to presume anything, may I inform anybody who might be remotely interested enough 🙁 to wonder at my absence, that Mrs C and I are going for a week to visit her brother and his wife who now live in a different part of the world ( aye, ok, southern Italy).
    I think it’s likely that I won’t know how to use my phone to access the blog, and, of course, I would not presume to use my host’s pc at any or all hours of the day, or disappear to an internet cafe or the local library.
    In short, I will in all likelihood not post again until I come back to have a pint in the ‘Blue Blazer’ ( sorry StevieBC) in Edinburgh, in about eight days time or so.
    In the meantime, orra best, orra time!


  27. Edit above

    The death of Scottish football will take a generation, but die it will because you can’t have a competitive sport that is inherently uncompetitive before a ball is kicked (and I’m not talking about the size of fan bases here, which obviously has an effect).

    Danish Pastry – sorry I didn’t get back to your kind message. Glad the Queens fans left such a good impression, it was just terrific to be there!


  28. I see that the minutes of the inaugural “Rangers Fans Board” meeting have tonight been released. It’s not quite clear why almost a month has elapsed since the meeting took place & the minutes being released, but having had a quick read of them it’s possible that they struggled to find anyone amongst them that had the ability to write anything coherently.
    It’s good that during this meeting they officially recorded their displeasure regarding the Livingston programme notes & and I’m sure they were smugly satisfied with Graham Wallace’s assurance that an apology had been received, and that “We’re dealing with it in the way I believe Rangers should be dealing with it”.
    It was agreed that their next meeting would convene on 26th November and I therefore look forward to reading of how they propose to address the Donald Findlay issue given their concerns regarding anyone mentioning “new club”. Surely they will at least demand an apology from him too.


  29. Yerevan says:
    November 4, 2014 at 1:30 am
    ——————————–

    I noticed a couple of comments posted on another forum from Rangers fans discussing Donald Findlay’s comments. While there is no apology being demanded they are clear in their view he has no idea what he was talking about. Rangers were bought out of administration from their holding company which is now being liquidated and that is the end of it. Why no-one ever asks them for evidence of a separate club and holding company is beyond me. Well, it’s not really!


  30. upthehoops says:
    November 4, 2014 at 7:07 am
    1 0 Rate This

    I noticed a couple of comments posted on another forum from Rangers fans discussing Donald Findlay’s comments. While there is no apology being demanded …
    ———

    No demand for a boycott either.

    Isn’t contesting that your club is, essentially, a non-legal entity walking on thin ice — registration wise? I think Gregory Ioannidis was tweeting about that recently.

    Perhaps Findlay is now aware of that?


  31. . . . “SFA president Campbell Ogilvie revealed the governing body are poised for a sit-down with Ashley — as they seek further ‘clarification’ over his growing power at Ibrox. . .

    Oh, Hello Mike, will you like a sit down.
    Yes, Campbell, I don’t like the Kerry-ootz up here.
    What’s yer craic Campbell?

    Well Mike, I have a question, I need to ask you, which is worrying me!
    Yes Campbell, go on.
    Well Mike, since you seem to be running the show round ibrokes way, now
    …can you tell me, how will it effect my EBT I got from Rangers, because, Ali McCoist has informed me that you are the same Rangers, but I thought that it was a different Rangers that payed me..sorry…Loaned me!?
    Cheers.


  32. The comment from CO in that Daily Mail piece:-

    Asked to provide a definition of ‘influence’, Ogilvie said: ‘I wouldn’t say it’s clear. A lot depends on the circumstances at any one time, the situation at the club.

    Translation = ‘I don’t know. We just make the rules up as we go along.’


  33. John Clark says:
    November 4, 2014 at 12:31 am

    Looks like you are doing a bit of research on corrupt European footballing nations JC, although arguably, Scotland is even worse than Italy these days!

    Enjoy your break. You might even look into setting up a TIFM. I’ve heard this Berlusconi lad is even shadier than our Campbell 🙄


  34. The Conflicted Ogilvie remarks quoted in the Daily Mail being to mind the old adage:

    For our enemies, we apply the rules;
    For our friends, we interpret them.


  35. Daily Re**rd -v- Daily Mail
    Donald Findlay -v- Ali McCoist

    As usual, the churnalists for these papers have got the story almost word for word (kidnap like a press release – maybe?)

    Not one of them asked Ali about the fact Donald Findlay QC is one of our top Legal minds and that would surely also have an influence on why Donald Findlay QC regards the Two Rangers as being completely different entities and that it is ridiculous to suggest that history can be bought.


  36. All those little share trades are fair pushing up the price. To the untrained eye (mine) what usually seems to happen is a few big trades tend to follow the punt up in price.

    But it’s perhaps of no significance whatsoever, unless, as someone mentioned, there’s a premium on the shares in circulation due to voting rights?

    http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp?shareprice=RFC&share=rangers_int

    PS @JimLarkin As far as I can see the headline writers do reveal quite different mindsets


  37. Wrt Donald Findlay:

    I think the problem in being sure what Findlay is actually saying is whether he is giving a legal opinion or one based on his personal emotions or possibly a mixture of the two.

    On a major Bears’ fan site he has come in for quite a rollicking and has definitely been identified as well past it and yesterday’s man.

    The site generally has supported the incumbent board of the time under the threadbare guise IMO of supporting the team by ploughing as much cash into Ibrox as possible. It also scorns the boycotters who deserve nothing less than extermination it would seem.

    It’s always hard these days to determine how much organised PR infiltration there is on fan boards but I think it would be a bit naieve to think it didn’t happen so therefore difficult to know if the site’s reaction is spontaneous or cynically manufactured and fuelled.

    It seems strange that an iconic Ibrox figure who truly is part of the fabric of Rangers – especially for his lack of tone – can be written-out so easily from the revered history of the club.

    I’m sure the various sub-plots will eventually become clear 🙄


  38. Martin says:
    November 4, 2014 at 9:23 am
    ——————-
    Just saw the author was Adrian Durham and all was explained.
    Listened to him once on Talksport. He makes Hugh Keevins and Gordon Dalziel sound almost intellectual….I know but he really is that bad.
    For whatever reason he has a real down on all things Scotland except, almost perversely, t’Rangers and comes across as a real Celtic hater. On the show I heard he was giving Neil Lennon pelters and this was in the season Celtic defeated Barcelona, explained away as one of the flukes that happen outside of the greatest league in the world.
    ( btw that’s the EPL. Suspect even Durham would not yet buy the Scottish Championship myth yet.)


  39. Torquemada says:
    November 4, 2014 at 8:33 am

    ‘For our enemies, we apply the rules;
    For our friends, we interpret them.’

    More of a mission statement than an adage for the SFA, I’d say!


  40. rougvielovesthejungle says:
    November 4, 2014 at 8:21 am

    I’d delete that if I were you.
    That Silvio chap might sue. What an insult.


  41. Message to Campbell Ogilvie if he is still unsure how to treat Mike Ashley’s influence at Ibrox.

    Why not just introduce a new rule or amend an existing one? You did that a few years ago so you could retrospectively punish Hearts for something their owner, but non-office holder, said! In fact, why not just visit that rule for a clue of how to proceed?

    But there is one simple way to decide whether or not Ashley holds influence, huge influence, over RIFC/TRFC, and that is – he’s already appointed a director, and can appoint another. If that isn’t ‘influence’ what is? If being a director, in any company boardroom, doesn’t signify influence in that boardroom, why have directors at all? If owning two directors isn’t influence in any company, what’s the point in having them, at all? If owning 40% of any company boardroom, while owning less than 10% of the shares doesn’t show undue influence…

    By the way, Campbell, you are president of the SFA because you are meant to know the answer to these problems, and to sort them before they become a major problem! In fact, you should be preventing these problems arising, by applying the rules without fear or favour. I wonder if you ever wake up at night and wish you’d done just that, instead of always interpreting, bending, ignoring the rules to suit just one club, old or new!

    The rules Campbell, just follow the rules! Before it’s too late, follow the rules… but maybe it’s already too late !


  42. Dear Campbell

    When it comes to boardroom influence, Bill Shankly’s dictum on the offside rule applies

    “If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be.”

    No doubt though, you are eagerly awaiting the usual more helpful ruling from the SFA’s Director of Sophistry

    Yours never

    A Disgruntled Fan


  43. Old Firm: arguably this term has come to represent everything that is wrong with how two Clubs interact. To me it is as sectarian as H*n or T*m and should be proscribed.

    As for the upcoming league cup semi, If there is ANY trouble in or around the ground from either teams’ supporters which is sectarian or violent in nature, both should be punished financially with fines and playing games behind closed doors regardless of the initiator.

    For too long have the authorities pussy footed around this. It is time for serious action if we are ever to rid our country of this sickness.


  44. Had Donald Findlay’s weekend statement read as follows, ” Celtic is a new club because the bunnet changed the name in 1994″, then I have no doubt that he would be hailed as the greatest legal mind on the planet,In fact ra peepul would probably demand a Nobel Prize(History) for dandy Donald. However, he said nothing of the sort because it is nonsense, instead he dared to tell an unpalatable truth ( although he could have told it better) and many down govan way are calling for his head. Should be a warm friendly atmosphere at Central Park tonight.


  45. Ogilvie Pushes Rangers into Admin

    “Campbell Ogilvie, SFA President, today condemned Rangers to administration by curtailing the influence of Mike Ashley at Ibrox and preventing his further investment or purchase of iP righrts”

    Wake up Bhoys – that’s never going to happen – that was just a wet dream – Campbell actually welcomed Mike’s contribution to maintaining the fabric of society over dessert at a nice un-minuted meeting of chums at a posh restaurant. Ogilvie then set out the SFA’s proposal for clarifying the definition of the often misunderstood term “ten percent” and appointed Lord Nimmo Smith to bless it with a pseudo-legal judgement after many weeks of deliberation.


  46. You had me going there @mcfc 🙂

    Maybe CO will take his cue from Charles Green: “Define 10 per cent, and ‘no more than.'”


  47. Next BDO report due on or about 15 November.
    Wonder if they`ll be able to report anything yet on the following points

    “The events leading up to the administration and the conduct of the former Joint Administrators”

    “The conduct of the Company’s directors prior to the administration”

    They`ll have to report something sooner or later
    IP/Goodwill for a £1 in the `sale` maybe of interest
    We`ll see 😉
    mtp


  48. Lots and lots of shares (relatively small amounts) traded today.

    Maybe MY CASHLEY should appoint directors in the banking sector?


  49. Hope you’re right @twopanda

    On media watch I see CFC’s Kris C is on SSB. Hope it’s a serious interview and not just more, ‘Only 87 days until the match of the century, Kris. Just how much have you missed Rangers? Will this fixture save Scottish fitba, which as we all know is dead on its feet?’

    Yawn.


  50. jimlarkin says:
    November 4, 2014 at 7:38 am

    . . . “SFA president Campbell Ogilvie revealed the governing body are poised for a sit-down with Ashley — as they seek further ‘clarification’ over his growing power at Ibrox.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    The mind boggles..
    How does a President “poise” for a sitdown?
    Is it different from the rest of us?
    Or is he just trying to avoid the Big Fan in the corner?


  51. Looks like WGS really is a SFA yes man. Lewis McLeod included in Scotland squad.
    How timely leading up to the January transfer window.


  52. Tbf, McLeod seems to have been playing well and not only against D1 sides – he seems to have done okay against St J, ICT etc. Could be argued he’s worth a look for the future and WGS has always said he intends to include a coupl of young or fringe players each squad to see how they work with them.


  53. normanbatesmumfc says:
    November 4, 2014 at 3:17 pm
    4 1 Rate This

    Looks like WGS really is a SFA yes man. Lewis McLeod included in Scotland squad.
    How timely leading up to the January transfer window.
    ———

    He may genuinely see something in the lad. WGS policy seems to be to get potential future players along as a kind of intro course — not necessarily to play.

    Is he deserving before others? No idea.

    Of course, it might give the Ibrox manager an excuse to postpone yet another match!


  54. Radio Scotland is another Sevco love in tonight with the quality of journalism epitomised by Kenny McIntyre breathlessly saying “Do you think Rangers(sic) will definitely win the league this season”….and the 3 wise monkey’s Messrs Young, Wilson & Ferguson sagely nodding their heads saying “no doubts Kenny”

    Thank God, I stopped my paying my license fee…..


  55. SSB I know, I know ……… Gordon Dalziel 😕 £4-5million for Lewis McLeod ??????


  56. Cygnus X-1 says:
    November 4, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    Thank God, I stopped my paying my license fee…

    ————————————————-

    Snap!!! Catchup will do me 😉


  57. “I get good reports from our coaches up here. I’m looking forward to seeing Lewis and working with him.”

    Personally I like GS, always have, but I find it strange that any full-time Scotland manager can pick a player that he has never seen for crucial games (in this instance, Euro 2016 ties against Republic of Ireland and England).

    Surely he should be picking 26 best, experienced professionals that our wee nation has available. There are plenty of friendly internationals for experimenting, surely?


  58. normanbatesmumfc says:
    November 4, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Looks like WGS really is a SFA yes man. Lewis McLeod included in Scotland squad.
    How timely leading up to the January transfer window.

    sixtaeseven says:
    November 4, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    “I get good reports from our coaches up here. I’m looking forward to seeing Lewis and working with him.”

    Personally I like GS, always have, but I find it strange that any full-time Scotland manager can pick a player that he has never seen for crucial games
    ————————————
    In fairness to WGS Ryan Gauld was in the squad for the last two competitive games despite not playing for Sporting Lisbon’s first team.

    I think the idea is to get a close look at the player in training and as a person.

    Going further back IIRC Andy Robertson was included in a couple of squads when still at DUFC for the same purpose.

    Nothing to see here IMO.


  59. Pastry says:
    November 4, 2014 at 7:02 am
    12 0 Rate This

    A follow up in The Mail to the Findlay comments. Ally agrees with LNS. Does that mean he manages a non-legal entity?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2819658/Rangers-manager-Ally-McCoist-keen-steer-clear-row-Donald-Findlay.html
    ———————————————————
    Having read the article I was struck by something that Ally McCoist said…..

    “There are lots of supporters who feel the same way, that they have lost a little bit of the identity, their own personal bond or relationship with the club.”

    I remember commenting a few days ago that the longer the current shambles at Ibrox continues the greater the chances are of a disconnect developing between fans and club.

    Looks like I’m not the only one that’s spotted it.


  60. Watching Real Madrid v Liverpool there once again leads me to ask what possible reason the SFA can have for not having the foam spray to mark free kicks and walls. Do they just go out of their way to be the most secretive, backward, obstinate, out of touch Football Association around? is there ANYTHING positive, or worthy of recognition in that organisation at all?


  61. Upthehoops at least they’re keeping a few people in work? I mean, who else is going to give the likes of Darryl Broadfoot a job?! Other than that I’m struggling…


  62. Prior to the draw for the next round of the Scottish Cup, 36 club’s remained in contention, before replays. Once these replays are concluded, that figure will be reduced to 32, and will include all 12 of the Premier division and the top 2 of the Championship.

    The draw for the next round has actually paired ALL FOURTEEN of the “top” clubs .

    Can any of our mathematician friends calculate the odds on such an outcome?

    No conspiracy theory intended, just wondering.


  63. RyanGosling says:
    November 4, 2014 at 8:44 pm
    =========================

    Good point. I do think Mr Broadfoot has shown himself to be tailor made for the SFA though. He appears aloof, arrogant, and completely at ease with a secretive organisation who make no effort at all to engage with their customers. It’s hard to believe in 2014 such a situation exists.


  64. I am fed up with fanny teams in the World Cup. Surely it could be rigged so that only the most populous and commercialy advantaged countries play in the tournament?

    To paraphrase the Scotland national team manger.


  65. Well Now
    As the evil empire of Wallace / Nash honest competence (reign of terror) is now ended

    & No doubt the reformed `Boards` of Laxeys / MA are all now sweetness and harmony
    We can look forward to a refreshed bout of Bears exploitation abetted with SMSM support
    Bears exploration needs new blood in a unified Board with fresh appetites to gorge themselves fat on proceeds
    Nothing else is good enough
    mtp

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