A guest blog by Auldheid
In the previous blog (http://www.tsfm.scot/how-not-to-govern-scottish-football/), TSFM wrote to Harper Macleod raising questions on their advice supplied to the then SPL Board in February 2013 when the Lord Nimmo Smith Decision re use of EBTs and side letters was announced.
A reply was received from Mr McKenzie on 18th September the gist of which can be discerned in the following reply sent on 4th October.
Dear Mr McKenzie 4th Oct 2014
Thank you for your response of 18th September to my letter of 5th September regarding the consequences of information on the true nature of EBTs for Craig Moore, Ronald De Boer and Tor Andre Flo being withheld from your good selves when establishing in 2012 the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission into the use of EBTs and side letters by Rangers FC from 1999.
In recognition of the points you made about publishing your responses on line, your letter of 18th September will not be published although readers of TSFM will be able to gather from this reply which is being published what those points were.
Anonymity.
It is a matter of real regret that not only was anonymity required, but that Harper MacLeod were used as a conduit to try and elicit a reply from the SPFL or SFA. In terms of anonymity there were three factors at play:
- Security. The individuals asking the questions are aware that any raised concerning Rangers can attract threats from the worst of the Rangers support. We know that they are a minority but nevertheless, as we have recently witnessed, some are ready to turn threat into action. It is a condemnation of Scottish society that fear has played its part in preventing the truth being revealed about Rangers FC’s use of EBTs since 1999.
- Collective. The Scottish Football Monitor is made up of supporters of many clubs in Scottish football and is in effect a collective. The letters reflect to a large extent the thinking and feelings of the majority of readers. If a name is required for any future correspondence from the SPFL or SFA, then it can be addressed to Mr John Macnab, and a Post Box address can be supplied if necessary in addition to this e mail address press@tsfm.scot.
- Accountability. The final factor is the most important because it is why Harper Macleod were approached. It was not just because you were responsible for commissioning the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry, but because there is absolutely no form of direct accountability by either the SPFL or the SFA to the supporters of Scottish football clubs. Correspondence can be ignored or the content not fully addressed and the customer who pays the wages of both organisations has no means of redress at all. Had there been some oversight in say an Ombudsman type role, it would not have been necessary to involve Harper MacLeod and indeed your good self. We sincerely apologise for doing so along with our thanks for actually responding to our correspondence, but we would like the reasons for our approach being addressed by the clubs who make up both footballing authorities. We hope you pass this particular point on to both SFA and SPFL.
Provenance.
You ask what the provenance is of the information/evidencethat you were given. The answer is we do not know, it was taken from material uploaded mainly in June last year for purposes unknown. Whilst its provenance may be in doubt there is no question as to the veracity of the content of the material itself.
This, when put together, sets out the narrative that prompted our correspondence. This question of provenance simply looks like an excuse for football authority not investigating what the material suggests took place when Duff and Phelps were asked to supply all documents relating to EBTs (no distinction being made) from the inception of the SPL.
Even if the material itself could not be used directly, it should have prompted questions that would have either corrected the narrative or established that the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission was indeed misled either by accident or design, when those documents were not supplied.
The SPFL must surely have the powers to seek the original documents from BDO and the SFA cannot be totally impotent in that regard either.
Then there is the personal knowledge of current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie to draw on. A simple statement explaining why he saw no reason to make any distinction between the irregular DOS REBTs that he launched in 1999 and the later MGMRT EBTs of which he was a beneficiary would surely help clear the air?
Existence of Side Letters.
We note that the Commission were aware of the existence of side letters to Moore, De Boer and Flo at the time of its decision of 28th February 2013 and these were taken into account when determining the appropriate sanction. The existence of side letters is not the issue that was raised in our previous correspondence, it was the nature of the EBTs that was the issue raised. In fact it would seem that the Commission themselves were confused by the switching from the irregular REBT ebts in 2002/03 to the MGMRT EBTs that are subject to further appeal with regard to regularity by HMRC.
The side letters to De Boer and Flo of 30th August and 23 November 2000 related to the DOS REBTs that they were both paid under. It is not known if they had subsequent side letters relating to the MGMRT EBTs , which is possible, but as set out in previous correspondence there were two distinctive types of EBTs and the side letters supplied relate to the earlier irregular type.
The position regarding the Moore EBT is interesting in that whatever EBT side letter was known to the Commission in February 2012 it could only have related to payments made to him under an accompanying side letter from the MGMRT ebts after 2002/03.
That Mr Moore was paid under the REBT scheme in 1999 is a matter of supplied evidence. However there is no record of any side letter in relation to the payment under the 1999 arrangement, which may or may not have been reported in the contract lodged with the SPL and SFA. It was the absence of any side letter in respect of this payment that prevented HMRC pursuing the tax due on it as they did for De Boer and Flo in what has become known as “the wee tax case. “ The evidence of deliberate concealment by the Murray Group of the side letters to De Boer and Flo allowed HMRC to seek repayment outside the normal 6 year time limit.
However the absence of a side letter or tax demand for Mr Moore does not mean this particular payment is not deserving of further scrutiny since
- It was an irregular payment that other clubs could not avail themselves of (as applies to the other two EBTs to De Boer and Flo)
- It is not known if it was reported to the SPL/SFA under the registration rules of that period.
Finally thank you for forwarding our letter of 5th September and previous correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer. Hopefully any further correspondence will be between him and ourselves, first to our email address, later to a PO Box if required.
It is the hope of all readers of The Scottish Football Monitor that the SFA will stop hiding behind the provenance excuse, which is destroying any semblance of integrity and proper governance of Scottish football and they will use their powers to properly acquire the information that will set the record straight and in doing so start to restore some of the lost trust which is essential for the wellbeing of Scottish football.
John Macnab
TSFM
canamalar
Ok, I wasn’t attempting to avoid the question at all, I admit I have no answer . I don’t know what caused this process to start. Its not just football, it was throughout the Rugby internationals too for example.
I was, however, expressing an opinion as to why it might be thought of as a perfectly reasonable thing to expect in large public gatherings at this time of year.
Not sure how we ended up entering the Great Poppy debate. It has been done to death on every Celtic web-site on the planet.
I have a whole range of views on this – these are personal and I don’t believe that they have anything to do with the governance of Scottish football.
Dare I say, a flower shaped squirrel – perhaps!!
PW1874 says:
November 10, 2014 at 4:10 pm
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Here’s an excerpt of the match notes from Celtic’s visit to Tynecastle during March 1922.
Today’s visit of Celtic recalls that grand occasion of 1920 when the two teams met in a thrilling exhibition of football at Tynecastle in aid of the Scottish National War Memorial Fund – there was a good crowd that day whose commemoration of the fallen aided drawings of £760 for the Fund – a notable sum. Celtic won the match by two goals to nil through goals scored by McLean and McInally.
Just as an aside for those suggesting acts of remembrance have only recently inveigled their way into football and also noteworthy for the participation of Celtic.
==============
Thanks for that, PW1874, just the sort of stuff I eas hoping for. And wouldn’t a whip round in the crowd to collect funds for Erskine, for example, be a much better (and less contentious) way of marking Remembrance Day at sporting events? No peer pressure, no disruption, just give as much or as little as you choose (or nothing),plus a positive outcome at the end of it.
Iceman63.
It was me, and it wasn’t no squirrel.
But then it was nothing to do with bloomin poppies either!
And I can’t believe of all the posts I’ve read today that you modded my own and UTH’s suggesting the ref was “over awed” 😈 😈
Smugas says:
November 10, 2014 at 4:33 pm
…But then it was nothing to do with bloomin poppies either!
———
It wasn’t all poppycock.
Phil has a new blog up:
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/having-a-wee-look/
A few things stickout:
Firstly, the auditors are playing hardball and demanding an”actionable plan”, good luck with that one
Secondly, it seems more loans will be required, no surprise there, but Phil is hinting that Ashley may go for a controlled administration, as per the Laxley plan last January.
Thirdly, he is hinting that contingency planning may be under way for a league restructuring exercise in the event of an insolvency event.
So plenty happening under the surface, so its perhaps no surprise, that poppies are providing a useful distraction 🙄
Big Pink (and probably others interested in an alternative to the SMSM), these people might be interested in sports reporting:
http://youtu.be/QVjGW0vUKlA
Folks,
I have removed the posts from today’s troll – and I am a bit disappointed that so many of you bit. Sadly the trolling viewpoint was the only thing that spoiled an otherwise interesting and thoughtful discourse on a recurring issue.
I have also removed James Forrest’s comment and link. What he spoke about was in a narrow Celtic context, so I don’t think that is a flyer on here. No offence intended to James, but I think it is a good idea to ty to contain a debate like this and keep it in-house.
For the record, my own personal view is that, notwithstanding the hijacking of Remembrance Week by various opportunistic types, I think it is right and proper that we should remember the dead – of all nations and all conflicts.
I share the view of others here that to disrupt an act of Remembrance is nothing more than loutishness, and the politics of Ireland or the Middle-East are irrelevant in that regard.
Patriotism in its many guises doesn’t sit comfortably with me at all. I am Scottish by an accident of birth. That same accident dictated my family circumstances and religion, and I don’t believe any of that makes me different or special. Jock Tamson’s bairns indeed.
I am heartened to hear that there is a developing consensus on this matter on TSFM. Tolerance of others’ views is as important to us as intolerance of intolerance. Thanks for that.
On return from a Remembrance Parade yesterday I posted this:
I struggle with Remembrance Sunday. Not because I have served and lost friends, nor that relatives never known to me died in conflict.
I remember and pay due respect to them all and to the others who died or made some sacrifice, either themselves or in support of others and also to those who have done so not just in time of war but in peace.
What I struggle with is listening to politicians and religious figures tell us how and what to remember.
Memory, grief and respect come from deeper, more primal places that predate politics and religion and indeed, are not limited to humanity.
On this Remembrance Sunday, I remember all…
At the parade they sang hymns containing ideology I object to. Rather than voice my objection which I would and have done with men of the cloth on many occasions, I just chose just not to sing.
There is a time and a place to exercise your right to dissent.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/having-a-wee-look/
It’s been a decades long argument in wur hoose, family on both sides of the Irish Sea, family who served on the convoys & were vocal on the lives that would have been saved had the treaty ports been available.
But, the freedom to voice dissent, however uncomfortable for some, is one of the key freedoms, people put on uniforms to defend.
Mid-Season Report from Ibrox – Both on and off the Pitch
http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2014/11/mid-season-report-from-ibrox-both-on.html
A quick summary of the Ibrox Noise reality: “A bit of local difficulty in the board room, in Mike we trust (well, hope). Good progress on the field – nothing to worry about there”
I suppose if there’s a good chance you are going to hit a brick wall at 100mph, it probably is best you don’t know in advance – then the unpleasantness lasts only a few milliseconds. Sometimes ignorance is a good thing.
scapaflow says:
November 10, 2014 at 4:57 pm
18 0 Rate This
Phil has a new blog up:
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/having-a-wee-look/
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Very interesting. A number of stars will need to align to avoid a big A event — not least that business plan. Hard to see Mike Ashley coughing up cash to court unpopularity in Glasgow on top of the grief he gets at Newcastle. But stranger things have happened.
8+8+8 back on the table? Or straight to a 14-16-18 Premiership? Be fun to hear Neil D. argue for a bigger league after pinning his colours to the 10-team top tier :irony:
Danish Pastry says:
November 10, 2014 at 6:49 pm
The unprincipled perform such gymnastics without breaking sweat
neepheid says:
November 10, 2014 at 3:59 pm
ecobhoy says:
November 10, 2014 at 3:15 pm
@Neepheid – I haven’t a clue. Sometimes the reasons why certain things become the norm are less important than the consequences when they do. It seems to me that might well be the case here.
==================
Until I know the reasons (and the factual background) I’m in no position to comment. I would at least like yto know the factual background, and given the depth and breadth of knowledge regarding Scottish football on here, I’m astonished not to have been given chapter and verse several times over
=====================================================
@Neepheid – methinks this would be a very quiet site if no one posted unless they knew the reasons and factual background on a topic under discussion 😆
I’m sure detailed answers are out there if anyone is interested/keen enough to research and I think the answers might be found by checking match reports on the relevant Saturday from say 1919 onwards.
Frankly a `controlled` administration is foolishly optimistic to keep circus going
CW oldco had a few millions left when admin fell, this time there`ll be zilch cash left
This time assets are in hooch or goodness knows where
Where are the funds or assets for administrators to administrate?
Still take millions to be `invested` to get to end of season, and;
Where are the funds for contingency measures coming from?
Are they to be subbed from every other Club?
Plus small matter of Courts taking a dim view of very fat rats pleading insolvency
mtp
TSFM says:
November 10, 2014 at 5:25 pm
==============================
A good post TSFM. The more I’ve thought about this the more pointless it seems to me not only to disrupt a silence but to use the argument that it is a free nation to justify it. Living in a free nation brings responsibilities as well, and for me that means respecting the views of others, and making your own points in the proper context and setting.
Of course, it can be frustrating to listen to others completely ridden with prejudices claiming a moral high ground, and there is plenty of that. For me though, one minute a year should not be too much for anyone, and I’m sure there is something for everyone to devote a poignant memory to. I often think of my late Grandmother’s brother, who was killed in WW1. I think of those who lost their lives protecting the world from the evils it faced in WW2, and I try to think of every family who has been left without a loved one who left home and never returned. It’s really not so hard.
It’s not much to ask to stay silent for 60 seconds. There’s lots of things you can do in silence for 60 seconds.
The problem is that the disgraceful scenes in recent years of UK armed forces engaging in racist and sectarian singing at Ibrox , will be used to legitimise the disrespect shown by those who can’t keep quiet.
There are many who’s behaviour is wrong and hypocritical. Those who disrespect a minutes silence would be the first to be outraged if anyone interrupted any of their political pet projects. They are divisive and hypocritical.
Those who allow UK forces to continue to behave in a racist and sectarian manner at Ibrox are guilty of divisive and hypocritical behaviour .
Two wrongs don’t make a right and neither action is justified by the other.
Barcabhoy says:
November 10, 2014 at 7:52 pm
I wish they would STFU for a minute as well. But, there are far too many who seem to believe that the best way to defend our hard won civil liberties, is by curtailing them!
Everybody likes a good conspiracy theory
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So here’s one
Celtic need money from somewhere to balance the Delia effect……….tick
Celtic could do with a game against TRFC before they go bust ………….tick
Celtic could do with hosting two Cup finals this season…………..tick awaited
TRFC could do with hosting four Cup semi-finals this season…………..tick awaited
Championship minnows have all had at least one bite at the TRFC cherry……..tick
So
SFA and SPFL have CFC agreement to get TRFC, Hearts and Hibs back in the top tier next season by whatever means is possible
The Big Danger?
Fans of the smaller clubs might get uppity again and demand sporting integrity or similar nonsense
The Wee Danger?
The people in charge at the SFA and SPFL might lose their reputation for integrity
The Plan?
Possibly something like
Get it all done and dusted before next years STs have to be bought (end Feb 2015 latest)
Get some respected figures to soften up the fans for another bout of chicanery
WGS kicks it all off with a suggestion to somehow manipulate affairs so that TRFC Hearts and Hibs all return next season.
If there is no serious opposition in the SMSM
A string of other notables chip in to support WGS with more dire warnings of Armageddon
A new SPFL Sponsor gets lined up to back the preferred option
Some people think aloud about the need for Motherwell to stay up and Ross County to go down
TRFC get liquidated and the Newco applies for the place vacated by Ross County
The SPFL enlarges by two clubs in 2015 2016 on the premise that the bottom two next season get relegated with no promotion
All done and dusted before STs are due again
You’re correct Barcabhoy, two wrongs don’t make a right. But unless you are trying to say they do, or trying to make a subtle “one is as bad as the other” point, I don’t see why you bring up the armed forces day at Ibrox last year. Why not just condemn the disrupting of the silence and be done with it?
scapaflow says:
November 10, 2014 at 5:52 pm
—————————————————
I don’t understand the relevance this has to my latest piece on the Sevco saga?
#Link
Ecobhoy, a good suggestion,which I will follow up as soon as I can, as one of the very few interested in exactly how football got embroiled in a silence that never impinged on its schedule. I have only a very poor 2g connection here in the alps,so I need to get to the library in the nearest village for some precious broadband. I will report back eventually.
Ryan,
I think the point BB was making was the opposite from what you infer; that the disturbing spectacle of armed forces day at Ibrox is often used as an excuse by those who disrespect Remembrance day silences, and that it was no excuse at all.
I didn’t see or hear any whatabouttery – although YMMV
While the highlighting of a few Celtic fans poor behaviour may have been trolling it is still a topic for discussion. I was of a mind to bring it up myself when I saw the footage which is why I took the bait as I believe it is not something the site should have shying away from.
Having been present at Tynecastle on Saturday where the club, wholly supported by Turnbull Hutton’s Raith Rovers, put on the most dignified and respectful act of remembrance I fail to see what these small number of participants sought to achieve other than to shame themselves and draw unwanted attention to their club. That of course credits them with having enough functioning grey matter to even give it a second thought.
Whether it be holding a minutes silence, sectarian abuse, fans fighting, peeing up people’s closes or flashing your kilted arse to the passing public Scottish Football needs to be rid of these idiots regardless of what club they support.
Even after Liquidation the costs are still to high.
When the good times were rolling for RFC:
ENIC – £40M
Dave King – £20M
Share issue underwritten – £50M (really the public’s money via Bank Of Scotland)
Unpaid NI and Tax – £16M
Wee Tax case – £4M
Other creditors – estimated £30M
That is £160M hosed down the drain to pay for a party that the bill was never paid for.
Now, ‘The Rangers’ are losing roughly £8.5M a year if Mr Nash has managed to reduce costs as much as we are told. If he hasn’t then the loses are still over £11M a year.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, this is before a player is bought for serious money and the wages rocket once more.
There are repairs to be made within the stadium.
There is no scouting network (sorry Stevie from IT) and that’ll cost money to set up.
Mike Ashley did not get where he is today (no Reggie Perrin pun intended) by throwing his away cash. It is no wonder his general’s are looking under the bonnet to make an assessment.
I think their assessment will be pretty damning.
The costs above, while not prohibitive for some one like Mike Ashley, are high for a Scottish team however it is the history, and not the Charles Green kind, which point to where this will go: spiralling costs, higher wages, more demands for more spending. No, once more this will be a vehicle running down hill with the brakes off, the steering is already broke, it is losing oil, the body work needs serious repair, and it burns the most expensive high octane fuel for a very bumpy ride.
Good luck Mikey!!!
wottpi says:
November 10, 2014 at 8:49 pm (Edit)
While the highlighting of a few Celtic fans poor behaviour may have been trolling it is still a topic for discussion.
_______________________________________________________________________
wottpi
If you are referring to my remark about trolling then let me clarify.
The highlighting of poor behaviour by Celtic fans was not what I considered to be trolling – it was the new poster who sought to justify that behaviour to whom I referred.
A poster who, if the TSFM IP Police’s conclusions are correct, is definitely not a Celtic fan 😉
What about this. Season 2015 with a top tier of the 18 biggest clubs/companies in the land based on footfall from 2014.Second tier with the next 18 best supported clubs/companies. The rest go well….anywhere really as they are of no further value to the game. No relegation or promotion as we know it but the 2 clubs/companies in the top tier who have the worst attendance figures are invited to leave for the division below to be replaced by the 2 best supported clubs/companies from the lower division. This will MAKE people turn up and support their team and ensure the best supported teams will never be relegated. Sorted.
@Phil, now you’re here, I’ve read this a few times; you are saying that the smoke signals suggest an A or L event is unlikely — and that Ashley will fund an ongoing entity?
Still stinging from the defeat on sunday I have to say.
I have one observation to share on the noisy disruption of the minutes silence at the weekend : – these people simply take the opportunity to behave inappropriately for no reason other than to seek attention for themselves and/or their personal agendas. It has happened before and will again. Aberdeen fans have disrespected minutes silences for players, so have Rangers fans, so have I am sure many others.
So while I don’t excuse it, lets keep it in perspective and lets not allow misguided individuals from spoiling things for the rest of us or tainting the atmosphere between scottish football fans.
TSFM says:
November 10, 2014 at 8:57 pm
Understood.
Back to Ashley. A NUFC blog is suggesting Ashley is going down the “Udinese route”. That being, buy up distressed clubs and move players around them to suit hoping to unearth the odd sellable asset that makes it all worthwhile. Unknown to myself and probably many here, he is doing to Oldham Athletic what he is doing at Ibrox.
Piece here – http://www.nufcblog.org/2014/10/is-ashley-planning-pozzo-style-selling-club-network-at-newcastle-rangers-and-oldham/#.VGDFddJdWAU
RyanGosling says:
November 10, 2014 at 8:17 pm
8 12 Rate This
You’re correct Barcabhoy, two wrongs don’t make a right. But unless you are trying to say they do, or trying to make a subtle “one is as bad as the other” point, I don’t see why you bring up the armed forces day at Ibrox last year. Why not just condemn the disrupting of the silence and be done with it?
————————-
In your haste to attack my point , you have missed the obvious . As BP pointed out those disrespecting the silence use the behaviour at Ibrox as justification .
My point made it clear that’s it’s not justified .
PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
November 10, 2014 at 8:36 pm
Sorry Phil, meant to ref TSFM’s post. The link to your piece must have sitting in the clipboard 😳 I didn’t notice when I hit ctrl -v. Epic fail!
Barcabhoy, I didn’t think that meaning was obvious, which is why I challenged you on it (didn’t attack, just asked a question). I read your post several times and I don’t think it was clear what you were saying – but as you have now explained what you meant I accept that.
Just thinking aloud…
It appears that Charlie has pocketed IP rights, which was a clever move, and should provide him with a nice pension, [or pay-off].
But likewise, is the legendary Albion Car Park not a potential golden nugget for a spiv ?
You wouldn’t want the expense of owning and maintaining Ibrox, [leasing aside].
Murray Park would need significant upfront expenditure to get planning permission etc. if you wanted to try to develop the site e.g. for housing.
But the car park, IMO, has minimal maintenance and overhead costs, and great potential as a long-term hold.
Whilst the stadium is being used, the car park generates a decent revenue stream.
And of course the value of the land might be significantly higher in say 20/30 years time ?
So why didn’t Charlie or another spiv siphon off ownership of the car park ?
[Or have I missed this point altogether in the ongoing “show us the deeds” confusion ?]
Tsfm you say deficit, i say feck Up
Surely, surely the football authorities wouldn’t, couldn’t contemplate a contrived restructuring to assist a club that has ignored financial fair play by spending more than they could afford? Furthermore this so soon after the previous incarnation went bust?
There again, I’m struggling to understand why there is talk of the semi finals of the League Cup being played away from Hampden. Will the pitch there not be ready? Or is this yet another example of an organisation incapable of transparency encouraging all to think the worst?
andygraham.66 says:
November 10, 2014 at 9:10 pm
1 0 Rate This
Back to Ashley. A NUFC blog is suggesting Ashley is going down the “Udinese route”. That being, buy up distressed clubs and move players around them to suit hoping to unearth the odd sellable asset that makes it all worthwhile. Unknown to myself and probably many here, he is doing to Oldham Athletic what he is doing at Ibrox…
———-
I’d heard he was building Oldham a new stand and had some naming rights to something. But if it’s youth talent he’s after, why not put a bit of dosh into DU or Accies instead of throwing it doon the cash drain?
Mind you, a wee twitter rumour going around tonight that the lad McLeod is on his way for a fee of around £800,000. If he ends up at Newcastle that Italian scenario might just be the template for Ashley.
DP, if this were to happen would that not evidence that Ashley has definite influence over two clubs ?
scapaflow says:
November 10, 2014 at 9:23 pm
———————————————————-
No problems-it was just confusing.
😕
Thanks for clearing it up.
neepheid says:
November 10, 2014 at 8:40 pm
Ecobhoy, a good suggestion, which I will follow up as soon as I can, as one of the very few interested in exactly how football got embroiled in a silence that never impinged on its schedule. I have only a very poor 2g connection here in the alps, so I need to get to the library in the nearest village for some precious broadband. I will report back eventually
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You may find some of these helpful, I discovered that searching for “2 minute silence was more fruitful” (see http://www.thetwominutesilence.co.uk/history below)
There is also a contact on this site (might prove useful).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_silence
http://www.veterans-uk.info/remembrance/two_minutes.html
http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2011/01/public_remembrance
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This one may be of assistance:-
http://www.thetwominutesilence.co.uk/history
Sponsored by the University of Huddersfield
Sponsored by the Museum Libraries Archives partnership
Sponsored by the Big Lottery Fund
About the Project
The Two Minute Silence project has received a £10,000 grant from the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) to trace the evolution and continuing relevance of the Remembrance Day silence, which marks its 90th anniversary in November 2009.
Through the personal experience and testimony of people, young and old, and from a variety of backgrounds and cultures, we hope to explore the continuing significance of the silence as a way of reflecting on global conflict and the value of peace.
The project will hopefully result in a publicly-accessible archive of original recorded material, a series of personally crafted two-minute reflections for this website, as well as for the University of Huddersfield Archives website, and for MLA Yorkshire’s My Learning website.
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Guess what one of the search results found:-
http://www.tsfm.scot/harper-macleod-and-lns/
6 Oct 2014 – On Ally McC asking for McLeod to be released for part of his Scotland ….. Can anyone tell me when this one minute silence became a feature of football ….. fans feel the need to justify intolerant behaviour in football grounds. 😆 :irony:
neepheid You Have mail 😀
Because they didn’t own the car park until after the IPO.
Yes, the pitch will be ready. In fact Queens Park are scheduled to play there before the semi-finals are due
Christyboy says:
November 10, 2014 at 10:33 pm
6 0 Rate This
DP, if this were to happen would that not evidence that Ashley has definite influence over two clubs ?
———
Or three, as the case may be. Perhaps the SFA will ‘send him a letter’? But are they even bothered? The billionaire lamp may be flashing in the Bat Cave 😆
Anyway, the Lewis McLeod rumour was quite interesting, though probably wishful thinking. The figure quoted was actually £2m which makes me think it’s a spoof.
So time for a few wee rumours about Lewis McLeod being sold to make up the shortfall. Not surprising as we have had the same about Lee Wallace but nothing happened.
However the more interesting point is the inclusion of both Championship players, McLeod and Patterson, in the Scotland squad ahead of any other premiership players.
I understand WGS reasoning behind the call ups and believe both players are good prospects in our game. However given his recent comments of wanting the big clubs back at the top, along with the fact that Levein gave Ian Black a cap by putting him on for a few minutes of a game that was well won, we have yet another example of those ‘inside’ football wanting to see progress made without necessarily being achieved through sporting endeavour and taking steps to ‘big up’ the chosen teams.
Imagine if WGS was told to hand back his CWC medal because at the end of the day he was a member of a wee diddy team and we all know things should have been manipulated to let a big team like Real win the trophy. (Which of course is exactly what Uefa has done over the years)
The paying customer just wants to see things be on a sporting level field as much as possible. Why is this concept so difficult for the ‘professionals’who are running our game, both on the playing and administrative side, to understand?
I was wondering if anyone can explain (maybe someone already has and I missed it?) why there are no highlights being broadcast for any of the Scotland qualifiers on BBC/STV?
It’s very hard to connect to your national team when it’s impossible to watch any of it save for those with Sky. Not to mention the loss in earnings to the SFA from selling such a package. The only highlights I could find for the Poland game were from some Polish channel online. Mind you the commentary made more sense than normal…
Thanks for the reply DP. Yeah probably but i wouldn’t rule anything out with these guys. Building stadia for other teams, didn’t some bank guy do that with Dunfermline and sourced his steel from….eh….sorry can’t remember !! I think football now is not sustainable in its present form and invites the likes of parasitic individuals to feast on bad luck, hard luck and nae luck companies irrespective of how old or how valuable they were to the community. MA and Co will not give a damn about heritage or morals, and if they see a weakness or an oppertunity, and lets be honest here, The Rangers have been served up on a plate for him………” Waiter….Knife and fork please, and don’t go anywhere…….. I’m having seconds.” ” And tell the rest of the boys to tuck in, and send a thank you note to the SFA and the SMSM…… accommodating blokes those guys, couldn’t have done it without them. Pass the Chianti there Hannibal.”
I would put nothing, absoloutely nothing past these guys………….
All quiet on the Ashley front
All quiet on the SFA questions front
All quiet on the accounts front
All quiet on the AGM front
All quiet on the share issue front
Is the prolonged silence a sign of a more dignified and prosperous future or is it a harbinger of more unpleasantness.
Reminds me of the old joke – girlfriend to boyfreind “You’re wondering if you’re going to get lucky tonight, I already know.”
Perhaps it doesn’t work so well as a joke with Ashley, Llambias and Leach as the “girlfirend”. 🙂
When RFC went into Admin the timing was dictated from outside…by HMRC
A similar situ may be imminent
With the timing dictated by Deloittes
http://www.therst.co.uk/rst-letter-to-aim/
Martin says:
November 11, 2014 at 9:17 am
0 0 Rate This
http://www.therst.co.uk/rst-letter-to-aim/
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I am constantly ticked proverbially pink by this never ending reference to “our club”
This Govan team belongs as much to me…and I am not a shareholder, let alone the main secured creditor…will they ever learn that it is no longer “their club” but an old cast off, controlled by a bunch of spivs who stole it from under their noses, blue or otherwise.
…Oh suffer the little children…. :irony:
Christyboy says:
November 11, 2014 at 9:02 am
2 0 Rate This
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Vulture capitalism in action? It’s hardly the people’s game, unless you chose to look a bit further down the leagues where the birds of prey don’t swoop too often.
As mentioned by tayred, many supporters can’t even see the national team on telly and others are priced out of going to the game, but the junta fat cats running the regime get their pay rises / bonuses on time. Very North British indeed.
I hope folks don’t look back in years to come to view this period as the era of destruction of professional football in Scotland. A clear-out is needed at the SPFL and the SFA , but how? A fan ST strike seems to be the only thing that affects the chairmen to pressure the regime leaders.
Somethng akin to the fervour of the YES campaign among football fans is probably needed to reclaim the people’s game.
Martin says:
November 11, 2014 at 9:17 am
http://www.therst.co.uk/rst-letter-to-aim/
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Intesresting stuff, but RST really should employ a legal professional to write these things – stating chapter and verse of regulations to carry more weight. It is inaccurate in that Ashley, so far, has only appointed one non-executive director – to get at the books, Although Ashley has agreement for another director, Leach is still a consultants – probably paid more than a non-exec. Perhaps more importantly, Ashley did see off two opposing executive diretors.
The £1 Ibrox naming rights thing is often misunderstood. The £1 for the naming rights was in addition to the £2.5mil credit facilitiy (temporary) that got the accounts signed off last year without going concern caveats. So the value to RIFC was considerably more than £1. The RST might actually thank Ashley for keeping the lights on. He was the only one who wanted to buy one of the few things RIFC had left to sell.
andygraham.66 says:
November 10, 2014 at 9:10 pm
Back to Ashley. A NUFC blog is suggesting Ashley is going down the “Udinese route”. That being, buy up distressed clubs and move players around them to suit hoping to unearth the odd sellable asset that makes it all worthwhile. Unknown to myself and probably many here, he is doing to Oldham Athletic what he is doing at Ibrox.
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I can see the financial sense for some in going down this route but I would tend to think that before most clubs hit the buffers they will already have sold-on their best players. And if they go into admin then the players can walk away and do their own deals.
But there will be the odd club that might be ripe for ‘plucking’ at the right time. However would it really be worth it at Ibrox? I would doubt they have more than 3/4 players that would be worth selling.
And then there’s the angst that would create with fans who would definitely stop buying merchandise which over a couple of seasons would soon cancel-out any financial gain from any player sales.
Of course if there were no long-term involvement plans then I suppose it makes no difference and it would just be a matter of gathering in as much hard cash as possible.
Again though, these days players aren’t paid for up-front but usually by staged payments afaik so if there isn’t a long term future envisaged for the club then the later instalments would end-up with the club administrator.
It’s now close to two weeks since the SFA announced they were “seeking clarification” from MA on his plans going forward for RIFCL/TRFC and had written to him seeking exactly that.
I winder if Mike plans to answer them or give them the Dave King treatment, ie totally ignore them….
Surely someone in the SMSM is interested to know the answer? I would have thought questions would be flooding in this week, especially when all the office bearers are assembled to sit in the plush seats ahead of our Euro tie with Ireland.
Or is it only us bampots who are interested or is the question simply too difficult to ask for the lamb eaters?
MCFC,
Your comment about “all quiet . . . ” – Ashley is not one for the PR/media briefings type stuff. He seems very much a doer, not a talker (aka bullshi**er!)The first we’ll know of his intentions will be when he has acted.
Before My Time Here
Didn’t SDM de-list RFC plc when the burden of publishing accounts became too illuminating of the financial shambles of Rangers? I stand to be corrected or eductated about the details.
If no one can square the circle of the current accounts, a similar move may give Mike more time and more options to weave some profitable magic. Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that he’s having private chats in electronically swept rooms along the lines of “well five pence per share is better than zero pence per share in administration.”
But the SFA agreement I hear you cry. Mike: “Well bending over one more time is better than having to explain why you plunged the knife into The Rangers when there was a survival plan on the table – and possibly even in the press.”
From Evening Times
Rangers shareholders make complaint to Stock Exchange over Mike Ashley
AN INFLUENTIAL Rangers fans’ group have demanded an investigation into the Ibrox board.
Fans’ chiefs at the Rangers Supporters Trust have complained to financial regulators about Mike Ashley and asked them to launch a probe.
The complaint follows the board’s rejection of a £16million investment offer in favour of a £2m emergency loan from Sports Direct tycoon Mike Ashley.
In a letter to the London Stock Exchange, the supporters group expresses concerns about the board’s “failing to treat shareholders equally”.
The letter also asks authorities to investigate the lack of disclosure of commercial income by the board.
It reads: “We write as a shareholder to express our deep concern over the stewardship of Rangers International Football Club plc.
“And ask that you carry out an investigation into the current and previous board of directors to determine if their actions favour one particular related party, namely Mr Mike Ashley and his company, Sports Direct.
“Mr Ashley owns a controlling interest in another football club, Newcastle United FC, and ownership of more than one football club is not permitted by football authorities.
Under the terms agreed with the Scottish Football Association, Mr Ashley was initially permitted to be involved with Rangers if his shareholding did not exceed 10%, and that he did not exert any influence at board level.
“We believe in placing two of his representatives on the board of RIFC, Mr Ashley is clearly influencing operations which may violate his agreement with the SFA.
“This could put the football club at risk of sanctions.
“Indeed, we understand that the SFA has written to Rangers and Mr Ashley for clarification.
“Potential sanctions from the governing body could range from financial penalties to suspension of membership.
“We believe this is an unacceptable risk to the business, particularly when an alternative offer of short term funding was available.
“This risk appears to have been taken in order to further the interests of one related party.”
Rangers announced the appointment of Derek Llambias as a non-executive director earlier this month.
The 57-year-old former Newcastle United managing director arrived in Glasgow last week after the Ibrox board accepted Ashley’s £2m loan.
Llambias, who was Ashley’s right-hand man at Newcastle United, has since been acting as a consultant to the Rangers board.
The letter adds: “The Rangers Supporters’ Trust represents over 2000 members with a group shareholding in RIFC.
“And we believe our interests, as well as those of thousands of other shareholders, may be being overlooked in favour of one particular shareholder/related party.”
finchleyflyer says:
November 11, 2014 at 10:01 am
The first we’ll know of his [Ashley’s] intentions will be when he has acted.
========================
quite so, and the first we’ll hear of the SFA’s intentions is when they’ve accommodated Ashley and changed (re-interpreted) some rules.
“We write as a shareholder to express our deep concern over the stewardship of Rangers International Football Club plc. …
“ … Mr Ashley owns a controlling interest in another football club, Newcastle United FC, and ownership of more than one football club is not permitted by football authorities.”
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Has the RST forgotten the ontological distinction between a football club and a holding company? What is the world coming to?
Don’t know how it works but why would AIM be interested in a loan to TRFC Ltd.
A company not listed on their exchange?.
As an aside,I was talking to someone who works at Hampden and as far as she was concerned,the 1st game when the stadium reopens will be QP v Clyde on 3/4 January and their is no problem wrt Hampden holding the LC semis.
The Man Who Would Be King
Interesting article on Dave King and his attitude to buying The Rangers. Although feels a bit like the report I read this morning from an investment adviser saying that the Tesco warning signs were all there to see.
http://90minutecynic.com/dave-king/
I see some activity at Companies House with regard to The Rangers Football Club Limited :
5/11/2014 SC425159 THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED REGISTRATION OF A CHARGE / CHARGE CODE SC4251590004
1/10/2014 SC425159 THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED STATEMENT OF SATISFACTION OF A CHARGE / FULL / CHARGE CODE SC4251590003
1/10/2014 SC425159 THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED STATEMENT OF SATISFACTION OF A CHARGE / FULL / CHARGE CODE SC4251590002
Don’t want to waste £3.00 on a clumpany I could have bought for £1.00. Is this the repayment of the Letham/Easedales debt and the setting up of the MASH loan security?
Scottish Football needs a strong Scotland.
easyJambo says:
November 7, 2014 at 10:44 pm
“There are only 15 possibilities for that, with the results at the extremes being 16 red and 0 black at one end and 2 red and 14 black at the other.”
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My delayed response is probably a function of how easily I can become confused.
I see your analogy and was using similar metaphors myself to arrive at a meaningful conclusion but it just wasn’t computing. When I seen Big Gav’s response I recognised something I had been taught and something familiar came flooding back.
As has been observed with bookmakers, unusual statistical occurrences can be used to identify instances of match rigging. It is therefore good to know that such a skill is available to the blog. I’ll have a ponder over what you’ve provided and see if I can get up to speed.
On Waiting for Mike Ashley’s TU or TD.
“I’m waiitng for my man, twenty six dollars in my hand”
….
“Feel sick and dirty more dead than alive”
….
“First thing you learn is you always gotta wait”
….
“He’s got the works, gives you a sweet taste”
….
“I’m feeling good, I’m feeling oh so fine. Until tomorrow, but that’s just some other time”
Velvet Underground, I’m Waiting For My Man
Waiting on Mike is the new dignity
Chairman of the Bored
I’m bored waiting for some news on what’s happening at Ibrox and Hampden over The Rangers – and I don’t even care how it turns out – I’m just a nosey neighbour.
I know, why don’t we all just get together and pay someone to go and ask all the movers and shakers what’s going on. I’d pay a quid a day to get good information and maybe others would too. That’s brilliant, let’s pay people to ask the questions we want asked and we can sell it to thousands of other people who want to know every day. I’m a genius, where’s that crowd funding site – we could make millions. What do you mean, it’s all been done before and it already happens Where? How? Are You Sure?
https://www.nuj.org.uk/work/careers/careers-faq/#skills
Reading the AIM letter from the RST all I can think of is Fletch aka Barker
“Gentlemen, it pains me to tell you that someone in this knick is a thief”
Either that or a raging two year old being ignored in the aisles of Asda
I want it, I want it, I want it NOW or I’ll sqweem and sqweem and sqweem.
In fairness, at least they are finally trying something.
Allyjambo says:
November 10, 2014 at 1:20 pm
” I do wonder, though, where you get the idea that people are ‘browbeaten’ into conformity.”
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I’ve worn poppies and been part of silences concerning Armistice Day commemorations. I’ve also worked in military industry and know that in those particular environments failure to sport a poppy is viewed with suspicion. I agree with canalmar that it should be an individual’s choice to commemorate or not. I think the Celtic supporters are letting themselves down by booing the silence but as neepheid has pointed out, this proliferation of silences is a fairly new phenomenon in football.
I have become suspicious down through the years concerning the motives of the Earl Haig fund. If some of those booing supporters were actually in a contorted manner truly honouring the legacy of a fallen generation by exercising the freedom of speech embodied in that cause, then I might show disdain but will stop short of contempt.
Smugas says:
November 11, 2014 at 1:28 pm
I want it, I want it, I want it NOW or I’ll sqweem and sqweem and sqweem.
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Mrs mcfc once saw a bratty kid grab something at the checkout at a supermarket and put it on the belt. The mother’s response was “put it back, you won’t like it, it’s got fruit in it”. The kid put it back.
The RST should be careful what they demand when it comes to financial transparency.
Grant Russell @STVGrant 29m29 minutes ago
Changes at Rangers Retail Ltd. Rangers chairman David Somers & football chairman Sandy Easdale appointed as directors. Nash and Wallace out.
mcfc says:
November 11, 2014 at 1:35 pm
2 0 Rate This
Mrs mcfc once saw a bratty kid grab something at the checkout at a supermarket and put it on the belt. The mother’s response was “put it back, you won’t like it, it’s got fruit in it”. The kid put it back.
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Oh please, lets not swap from poppy fascism to 5-a-day fascism 😛
mcfc says:
November 11, 2014 at 1:35 pm
2 0 Rate This
Mrs mcfc once saw a bratty kid grab something at the checkout at a supermarket and put it on the belt. The mother’s response was “put it back, you won’t like it, it’s got fruit in it”. The kid put it back.
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Oh please, lets not swap from poppy fascism to 5-a-day fascism 😛
Lord no – I was shouted down by Mrs Red this morning for ranting at the TV as the BBC declared all fruit juice as the work of the devil.
Mrs Red – sounds somewhat exotic 😯
tayred says:
November 11, 2014 at 2:19 pm
Mrs Red – sounds somewhat exotic 😯
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If you’re shocked now – wait til you tell Mrs Red – notice my tasteful restaint about “five a day” jokes 🙂
Danish Pastry says:
November 10, 2014 at 10:10 pm
“But if it’s youth talent he’s after, why not put a bit of dosh into DU or Accies instead of throwing it doon the cash drain?”
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Where I think the piece posted by andygraham66 made sense was that having a variety of different sized clubs projects different sporting and business ethos.
Someone suggested one of Ashley’s marketing strategies was to have his stores look a wee bit disorganised at times whilst his warehouse is pristine. That slightly cheap look attracts a certain segment of the market that associates value with a bit of disorder. Posh shops are expensive; junk shops are cheap; or so the psychology might have us believe. It is market segmentation. Manufacturers might sell their goods at various prices in various outlets knowing that certain customers who pay the higher price wouldn’t be seen dead in the discount shop.
So maybe the model is market segmentation in talent scouting. It is obvious that when big clubs enquire after players availability, the price goes up. If you had the option of having a less prestigious but still respectable club to make the purchase then recycle them to the bigger club then perhaps this big club premium can be avoided.