A guest blog by Auldheid
In the previous blog (http://www.tsfm.scot/how-not-to-govern-scottish-football/), TSFM wrote to Harper Macleod raising questions on their advice supplied to the then SPL Board in February 2013 when the Lord Nimmo Smith Decision re use of EBTs and side letters was announced.
A reply was received from Mr McKenzie on 18th September the gist of which can be discerned in the following reply sent on 4th October.
Dear Mr McKenzie 4th Oct 2014
Thank you for your response of 18th September to my letter of 5th September regarding the consequences of information on the true nature of EBTs for Craig Moore, Ronald De Boer and Tor Andre Flo being withheld from your good selves when establishing in 2012 the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission into the use of EBTs and side letters by Rangers FC from 1999.
In recognition of the points you made about publishing your responses on line, your letter of 18th September will not be published although readers of TSFM will be able to gather from this reply which is being published what those points were.
Anonymity.
It is a matter of real regret that not only was anonymity required, but that Harper MacLeod were used as a conduit to try and elicit a reply from the SPFL or SFA. In terms of anonymity there were three factors at play:
- Security. The individuals asking the questions are aware that any raised concerning Rangers can attract threats from the worst of the Rangers support. We know that they are a minority but nevertheless, as we have recently witnessed, some are ready to turn threat into action. It is a condemnation of Scottish society that fear has played its part in preventing the truth being revealed about Rangers FC’s use of EBTs since 1999.
- Collective. The Scottish Football Monitor is made up of supporters of many clubs in Scottish football and is in effect a collective. The letters reflect to a large extent the thinking and feelings of the majority of readers. If a name is required for any future correspondence from the SPFL or SFA, then it can be addressed to Mr John Macnab, and a Post Box address can be supplied if necessary in addition to this e mail address press@tsfm.scot.
- Accountability. The final factor is the most important because it is why Harper Macleod were approached. It was not just because you were responsible for commissioning the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry, but because there is absolutely no form of direct accountability by either the SPFL or the SFA to the supporters of Scottish football clubs. Correspondence can be ignored or the content not fully addressed and the customer who pays the wages of both organisations has no means of redress at all. Had there been some oversight in say an Ombudsman type role, it would not have been necessary to involve Harper MacLeod and indeed your good self. We sincerely apologise for doing so along with our thanks for actually responding to our correspondence, but we would like the reasons for our approach being addressed by the clubs who make up both footballing authorities. We hope you pass this particular point on to both SFA and SPFL.
Provenance.
You ask what the provenance is of the information/evidencethat you were given. The answer is we do not know, it was taken from material uploaded mainly in June last year for purposes unknown. Whilst its provenance may be in doubt there is no question as to the veracity of the content of the material itself.
This, when put together, sets out the narrative that prompted our correspondence. This question of provenance simply looks like an excuse for football authority not investigating what the material suggests took place when Duff and Phelps were asked to supply all documents relating to EBTs (no distinction being made) from the inception of the SPL.
Even if the material itself could not be used directly, it should have prompted questions that would have either corrected the narrative or established that the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission was indeed misled either by accident or design, when those documents were not supplied.
The SPFL must surely have the powers to seek the original documents from BDO and the SFA cannot be totally impotent in that regard either.
Then there is the personal knowledge of current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie to draw on. A simple statement explaining why he saw no reason to make any distinction between the irregular DOS REBTs that he launched in 1999 and the later MGMRT EBTs of which he was a beneficiary would surely help clear the air?
Existence of Side Letters.
We note that the Commission were aware of the existence of side letters to Moore, De Boer and Flo at the time of its decision of 28th February 2013 and these were taken into account when determining the appropriate sanction. The existence of side letters is not the issue that was raised in our previous correspondence, it was the nature of the EBTs that was the issue raised. In fact it would seem that the Commission themselves were confused by the switching from the irregular REBT ebts in 2002/03 to the MGMRT EBTs that are subject to further appeal with regard to regularity by HMRC.
The side letters to De Boer and Flo of 30th August and 23 November 2000 related to the DOS REBTs that they were both paid under. It is not known if they had subsequent side letters relating to the MGMRT EBTs , which is possible, but as set out in previous correspondence there were two distinctive types of EBTs and the side letters supplied relate to the earlier irregular type.
The position regarding the Moore EBT is interesting in that whatever EBT side letter was known to the Commission in February 2012 it could only have related to payments made to him under an accompanying side letter from the MGMRT ebts after 2002/03.
That Mr Moore was paid under the REBT scheme in 1999 is a matter of supplied evidence. However there is no record of any side letter in relation to the payment under the 1999 arrangement, which may or may not have been reported in the contract lodged with the SPL and SFA. It was the absence of any side letter in respect of this payment that prevented HMRC pursuing the tax due on it as they did for De Boer and Flo in what has become known as “the wee tax case. “ The evidence of deliberate concealment by the Murray Group of the side letters to De Boer and Flo allowed HMRC to seek repayment outside the normal 6 year time limit.
However the absence of a side letter or tax demand for Mr Moore does not mean this particular payment is not deserving of further scrutiny since
- It was an irregular payment that other clubs could not avail themselves of (as applies to the other two EBTs to De Boer and Flo)
- It is not known if it was reported to the SPL/SFA under the registration rules of that period.
Finally thank you for forwarding our letter of 5th September and previous correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer. Hopefully any further correspondence will be between him and ourselves, first to our email address, later to a PO Box if required.
It is the hope of all readers of The Scottish Football Monitor that the SFA will stop hiding behind the provenance excuse, which is destroying any semblance of integrity and proper governance of Scottish football and they will use their powers to properly acquire the information that will set the record straight and in doing so start to restore some of the lost trust which is essential for the wellbeing of Scottish football.
John Macnab
TSFM
TSFM – Any chance of getting RTC as a guest writer for a new blog?
Gerry Braiden @BraidenHT
Ally McCoist said: “Obviously I can’t or wouldn’t comment on a current police matter, but I would have to say I’m shocked.” #Rangers
Becoming more confused, guys. With the four who are the focus of police attention, doesn’t this have to be about the administration and subsequent sale of ‘some stuff’ to Charlie? I accept Grier was around at the time of the SDM to CW sale, but didn’t think any of the rest were, so don’t see how they would all be in focus if it were the 2011 ‘duped’ handover.
I realise it’s down to the sh*t reporting, as usual, from t*ssers who can’t put two thoughts together let alone two questions!
Good Afternoon
In my opinion TRFC are finished.
I would not be surprised if the loan for the salaries in November was suddenly recalled by MASH.
If there was a gratuitous alienation and subsequent three card trick by CG to deprive CW of the assets then the IPO must have been rolled out on a false premise.
I would not be surprised to see shares in TRIFC suspended forthwith. If you “own” something as a result of fraud or other criminality it must follow that all subsequent actings on the back of that can be reduced.
Given that those who were involved in the shenanigans were the same people who were involved in dealings with the SFA I would hope that all will be revealed in due course.
Any chance of any of the blazers jumping before they are pushed?
Has the share trading been suspended on AIM yet?
If today’s news can’t get the SFA to suspend their license ..what will?…sorry..silly question that last one !
Hoopy 7 says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:13 pm
You’re putting an HGV before the horse mate! I expect Ashley & his hatchet men will be re-visiting the operational risks associated with RIFC/TRFC, but, I wouldn’t expect precipitate action from Ashley or anyone else.
Looooong way to go yet
I hope they are investigating right from the start from Murray to Whyte and the ludicrous claim that he did not know Why yes past history.
The real victims are Rangers.Another tale of fraud in the murky world of finance.
re Arrests: the establishment firewall surrounding D Murray will extend to CW as he’s too much to reveal.
re Jake Cantona on league reconstruction:
“Far, far fewer meaningless games because even if a team can’t get to the playoffs or get relegated the chances are that the teams that they’re up against can.”
Which means the individual players favourite team will influence their performance against clubs competing for honours?
This is defo the time to look out some of the old CF material stretching back to 2011.
I don’t currently have access to some of it but have started reading bits and pieces which certainly are of interest.
But possibly others could look for references of importance in the period between CW’s takeover and the admin in 2012.
Anyone with info they don’t want to post publicly can PM me.
scapaflow says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:19 pm
3 0 Rate This
Hoopy 7 says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:13 pm
You’re putting an HGV before the horse mate! I expect Ashley & his hatchet men will be re-visiting the operational risks associated with RIFC/TRFC, but, I wouldn’t expect precipitate action from Ashley or anyone else.
Looooong way to go yet
,,,,,,,,,,,
Agree
Ashley will have a few priorities for his men on the ground
1 Revisit all paperwork re dealings his team had with D & P and RIFC plus any conversations with Whyte that may have been taped.Check for lawbreaking on both sides If his guys are clean then figure out a way of exploiting the situ to get his control of RIFC over 75%
2 Identify which TRFC players can be “sold” to NFC as security for the £1m loan
3 Decide which high earning TRFC personnel can have their pay stopped immediately to conserve cash even if this means they initiate legal proceedings for compensation.
4 Instruct somebody at SD to find a way of exploiting the situ to maximise sales of TRFC merchandise this Xmas
Withey was booted out of CB in March 2012 and afaik took no further part in the saga. This suggests that the current focus of the investigation is the 2011 sale to Whyte.
Useful search terms regarding that transaction would include:
– Ken Olverman and clip art invoices to Ticketus
– VAT monies on same
– Collyer Bristow client account
– Worthington group pension fund
Which is not to deny the possibility of a continuous golden thread through events up to the present day.
Lewis McLeod released to take on the mighty Alloa
OK guys and gals, bite size chunks.
Withey was the lawyer that released the Ticketus Monies from Rangers to Whyte to allow him to buy Rangers. (apologies for the shorthand version). No surprise he’s been collared.
Grier was Whyte’s advisor in the purchase with, as far as I am aware, no direct links with Murray. Grier then seemed to hang around like a bad smell as first Ally and Craigy did everything humanly possible to drive them into the admin wall. In fairness only the latter did it deliberately. Again no real surprise he’s been lifted (Grier that is).
It is worth stopping at this point and reminding ourselves that RFC had actual debt to HMRC at this point. No spurious claims or vicious bullying, actual debt, and, in fact, sufficient debt that publicly available HMRC policy specifically stated thou shalt not get one’s ass off on a CVA or some such.
Enter D & P Snatch squad with a late arrival of the King of sn… 😉 Mr Green. The interesting part of today is what links these two and Whithey (I suppose Grier is the answer!).
All that Whitehouse and his straightman could have done to have their collars felt is act within the administration process in the knowledge that something from the Ticketus transaction aka Whithey was not as it appeared. Interestingly the complete absence of anyone being lifted yet from the Green side of the equation (the purchasers) suggests the wrongdoing sits nicely with the sellers (and their own purchase under false pretences) only.
I guess where I’m going with this is that that rolls it right back to the Murray Whyte transaction.
andygraham.66 says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:54 pm
0 0 Rate This
Lewis McLeod released to take on the mighty Alloa
======================================
I have to say I think its a mistake for the lads career if TRFC/McCoist have requested this.
There are already several good players in the SPFL Premiership just as capable or better than McLeod. Showing such a poor attitude towards country on his VERY FIRST EVER call up to the squad is appalling and I’d expect Strachan to think again about calling up TRFC players unless they absolutely demand selection by their performances.
Very poor.
Sorry, further to my post of 2.58
If I’d to guess, I’d be looking closely at how D&P dealt with the Ticketus debt within the administration process. Of course if something has happened to the Ticketus debt OUTWITH the administration process that would just be beyond our collective imaginations. Or maybe not.
Grier was Whyte’s advisor in the purchase with, as far as I am aware, no direct links with Murray.
,,,,,,,,,,,
You could be wrong there if I remember correctly
IMO
Grier was the BOS man in Scotland responsible for throwing money at MIM in 1999-2000
He was also a D&P(under previous co name) advisor to Murray in attempts to sell RFC to various parties In late 2010 he was appointed by MIM to advise Whyte with the bill buried in the unpublished RFC accounts for 2010 2011
nawlite says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:12 pm
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Becoming more confused, guys. With the four who are the focus of police attention, doesn’t this have to be about the administration and subsequent sale of ‘some stuff’ to Charlie? I accept Grier was around at the time of the SDM to CW sale, but didn’t think any of the rest were, so don’t see how they would all be in focus if it were the 2011 ‘duped’ handover.
I realise it’s down to the sh*t reporting, as usual, from t*ssers who can’t put two thoughts together let alone two questions!
======================
One element of the CW takeover was of course the source of funding it, which was Ticketus.
Is it perhaps they who were defrauded by the named gentlemen?
The whole affair from CW takeover through to CG purchase carries a stench that will not go away.
Noo it’s Craigy Whyte’s turn … oh dear.
‘I was duped,’ declared Sir David.
[weejobbyicon]
Smugas says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:58 pm
=================
I’m not sure if its obfuscated by your shorthand but…….
Withey’s involvement was to allegedly use money from a client account (not Craigy’s) to prove to the due diligence committee, that Craigy had the funds to clear the Lloyd’s debt after picking up RFC for a shiny pound. They duped the committee into believing it was Craigy’s funds and not the immediate pawning of season tickets that would pay off the debt. They being Withey, Whyte and possibly SDM.
Grier as you say was an advisor at this time but presumably Clark and Whitehouse were only connected through being at the same company as Grier. Didn’t #CF material suggest it wasn’t until Nov 2011 that Whyte initiated conversations about a “quicky admin” with Grier which eventually led to C&W being appointed joint admins in Feb 2012
Craig Whyte facing arrest!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/craig-whyte-facing-arrest-crown-4628861
GoosyGoosy says:
November 14, 2014 at 3:07 pm
Spot on, Grier’s connection goes way back, its’s interesting how Grier’s career at BOS has been consistently airbrushed from this story.
Another wee blast from the past 😉
http://www.ianfraser.org/gavin-masterton-and-the-riddle-of-charlotte-18/
Tangled Web
Whether it is 2011 or 2012, any serious investigation will pull in everything from Ashley now to EBTs way back when – not to mention a cast of thousands including all your favourites.
Spivland must be buzzing because a team of criminal QCs will make short work of the spiv smoke screens, fan whataboutery and media fluff to expose lots of very stark, hi-definition facts that may require mass counselling across the blue side of Glasgow.
FTAoD – detained may be arrested, but arrested is not charged, charged is not tried, tried is not convicted and convicted is not always guilty.
The Stockbridge, Llambias & Leach meeting has me intrigued. If all the Ashley team were looking for were details of “secret” contracts existing within RIFC/TRFC then I’m sure this would have been done in private without anyone knowing. The fact they emerged from a meeting room, in the Hotel being used for the Scotland team, suggest to me it’s bravado. Furthermore the “coincidence” that someone had a video device pointing directly at the space the three men were due to walk into leaves the impression of a stage managed event.
Ashley is obviously the only game in town. He now has them over a barrel and he does not want anything to weaken his position. The club comes out with an offer of reduced part-season tickets which could have the result in bringing in some desperately needed cash. Any bears considering this deal, having seen the re-emergence of Stockbridge are likely to back off, leaving the club at the complete mercy of Ashley’s whims. I’m sure he was thinking of further loans with greater and greater security on the assets until he became the only secured creditor.
However today’s revelations might make him rethink his next move……?
Intriguing stuff, if torture for the bears.
I’m not really sure if it’s time standing still or history repeating itself.
But as Deloitte ponder the signing-off of Rangers accounts it might be worth them considering the position of Grant Thornton UK LLP back in February 2012 wrt the Audit for The Rangers Football Club Plc for the period to 30 June 2011.
A letter – dated 15 February 2012 – to the the Directors of Rangers from a TG partner referred to a meeting with the directors on 6 February and the joint agreement that David Grier would send him a note summarising the meeting.
The partner observed that this had been superseded by ‘subsequent events’ which had moved the focus from completing the audit but added: ‘So it is important that I summarise the key parts of our discussion’.
In the letter the GT partner points out that HMRC had informed the auditors that the ST money had been securitised and it had caused ‘concern’ to the auditors that Rangers had not provided this information.
The partner added: ‘We have only recently been able to start to try to understand the transaction’.
The partner further added that at a meeting with ‘David’ and a Rangers finance employee on 16 January 2012 the auditors had asked about ‘the securitisation’.
He commented: ‘We were concerned, on hearing the details, that this could constitute financial assistance by the company for the purchase of its own shares. As Rangers is a Plc, this would be unlawful.
‘We were informed that the company has obtained a QC Opinion that this is not the case but, despite our repeated requests, we have yet to receive a copy of that opinion’.
tbc
it would certainly seem like Whyte is the canary doing the singing. i agree with Southern Exile, given Withey’s involvement, it would seem that it is the 2011 sale which is being looked into. I’d always expected some sort of police investigation at the very least into the Jerome Group Pension Scheme fraud. Multi million pound pension scheme frauds are certainly rare enough to get the interest of the authorities when they occur.
Be interesting to see if Murray can keep his name out of the all the bad stuff swirling around now. i know he and Grier go way back but i guess the threat of prosecution could make anyone a bit more talkative.
GoosyGoosy says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:45 pm
4 Instruct somebody at SD to find a way of exploiting the situ to maximise sales of TRFC merchandise this Xmas
==============================================
What did you have in mind here, Goosy? Was it some kind of ‘convict chic’ style for the bears? Something in white and black with stars AND bars?
Scottish Football needs a strong judiciary in the coming weeks.
Tykebhoy,
Correct. I’m pleading the 5th Obfuscation!
What is it that Clark and Whitehouse could have been aware of? Grier knowing the Ticketus transction was iffy (although the end result was the same, lest we forget) and Grier happening to work in the same firm as Clark and Whitehouse does not constitute illegality does it?
Eventually, Clark and Whitehouse declared the Ticketus debt as stuffed in the CVA (contrary to Ticketus’ expectations), but again it wasn’t them that came up with that, they surely knew it would be challenged so would have to be confident of their grounding. Ticketus then invoke their fall back personal guarantee from Craigy, again all standard stuff. At what point did they cross the line?
[[[The cynic in me screams because there’s a tape of a meeting between Ticketus and Clark, Whitehouse and Grier PRE admin saying ach, ye’ll be fine or similar]]]
Re: the 4 detainees & Craigy’s arrest warrant.
If, as suspected, the SFA has been in discussions with TRFC/Ashley about assistance and/or concessions – shirley this latest development which throws up much confusion should/could be a reason to suspend any discussions immediately ?
andygraham.66 says:
November 14, 2014 at 1:34 pm
The T-shirt is no more 🙁
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30053689
See my previous post for Part 1
Part 2
The TG partner added: ‘In our discussions on Monday, we were unable to fully understand the flow of funds and in particular how Ticketus can have provided funds to Wavetower without having some direct security over the cash flows in the club (based on our prior knowledge of the EIS nature of the Ticketus funding and the nature of contracts with the previously) and also the connection between a term loan of £16m and the moneys used to repay the Lloyds Banking Group debts.
‘The whole issue of who gave security in relation to the deal and the resultant cash flows on the club (repayment of Wavetower debt, repayment of Ticketus debt and interest on Ticketus debt) remains unclear to us and we continue to be concerned that the directors have not provided us with all the relevant information, as they are required to do under Companies Act 2006.’
In his conclusion the TG partner again refers to the missing QC opinion and further returns to the subject in his ‘Going Forward’ section where he states: ‘Finally, I need to emphasise at this time that I remain uncomfortable about the lack of clarity on the financing of the acquisition and, in particular, the fact that we have asked several times for the QC opinion on the deal financing but we have not received it.
‘Please provide a copy of the opinion by return to allow us to consider the position.’
The letter was CC’d to Paul Clark and David Whitehouse Duff and Phelps.
ecobhoy says:
November 14, 2014 at 3:47 pm
Very nice catch
D&P statement
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30053692
Eco,
OK. So C&W now know that the purchase of the club was iffy. Grier, as advisor to it and chief summariser of it certainly knew. And Whithey was the poor schmuck who basically carried out the transactions. Still not illegal (C&W that is). Its what they subsequently did with the information that’s crucial, and whether that affected the administration process.
Part of me thinks but hang on, they wrote off the Ticketus debt, ergo the Ticketus debt didn’t affect the administration. It would appear to have been considered worse had they, in the full knowledge the Ticketus debt was iffy, still used that debt to scare potential purchasers away? Writing it off actually encouraged purchasers, Shirley?
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-takeover-administrators-react-to-defamatory-bbc-documentary-1-2313750
rhapsodyinblue says:
November 14, 2014 at 2:32 pm
23 11 Rate This
I hope they are investigating right from the start from Murray to Whyte and the ludicrous claim that he did not know Why yes past history.
The real victims are Rangers.Another tale of fraud in the murky world of finance.
————————–
I agree Rangers are a victim of various shades of ownership from Murray through to the current time.
However to claim Rangers are the real victims ignores the injustices done to other victims of decades of this type of ownership.
UK Taxpayers,
Individual creditors
Every single football club in Scotland who were cheated by Murray’s behaviour
European clubs who were cheated by Murray
1) Scotch recommendations?
2) The old “Duff and Duffer” ™ tag goes back to RTC days. But has anyone at Duff & Phelps ever been fired over the acquisition of MCR? The damage to their reputation has to vastly outweigh whatever business that generated, no? D&P wasn’t some fly-by-night no-name company.
Someone, not me(!), was quick on the wiki update: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duff_%26_Phelps#2014
Sorry highfibre, pressed send too quick.
C & W brought in as administrators. First job – tally up the creditors.
HMRC tick
Ticketus tick
Face painter tick.
Second job. Administrate. Open mail. Letter from GT saying timing of Ticketus deal looks iffy. In C & W’s eyes either Ticketus is a creditor or it isn’t. All GT’s letter does is give them an out to say that Ticketus deal, although quite clearly legitimately mortgaged against season tickets, appears to have been set up wrong and as a result is invalid. Which is exactly what they did. Where’s the illegal bit?
Eco – Here is a link to a Mark Daly article for the BBC referencing Grier’s early involvement.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18179264
@smugas
Whatever else he is, Gary Withey is no innocent schmuck:
http://www.thelawyer.com/full-extent-of-rangers-fc-claims-against-collyer-bristow-laid-bare/1012303.article
Sorry, I certainly didn’t want to give to give the impression that any of the 4 were innocent, far from it. Whithey and Grier are guilty as hell with their fingers in the till over the purchase deal. Clark and Whitehouse don’t come along until later, by which time the Ticketus loan, in whatever form or guise, is already established in situ and is just another creditor. I repeat. Where’s the illegal bit for Clark and Whitehouse. Just knowing Grier isn’t enough!
EDIT: just saw the post above so hope I can get in on time. C & W have just arrived 2 days previous. Ticketus are a legitimate ST lending vehicle. Whyte’s RFC appear to be paying regular instalments. If anything is jumping out at them at that point, it isn’t that!
Why don’t the Police and all other investigators just check this site for info? You guys are all brilliant. Thanks.
jean7brodie says:
November 14, 2014 at 4:41 pm
Someone will be along to take down your particulars presently 😉
Jean @ 4.41pm
They very probably have been for many months 😉
highfibre – i think you are on to something there. Failure to Report is the most likely crime for Clark and whitehouse. Good shout.
i never thought the money laundering and financial crime training i’m obliged to complete on an annual basis would have any impact or interest to me outside my work 😆
HF,
Oh absolutely agree with that 🙂 but GT would not have reported the crime to whoever (sorry, I’m glad to say I’ve no idea who SOCA is!) as money laundering in the first instance, its the financial impropriety of “Financial Assistance” that jumps up first, and with which GT would be principally concerned. (This assumes there is nothing dodgy about the original Ticketus consortium – the name octopus wrings a bell for some reason)
My point, obviously made badly, is that C&W are working backwards on this. They start with what appears a legitimate lender and regular repayments going to them. Yes GT are saying the loan is essentially set up wrong so maybe invalid, yes you think its strange that the Daily Record are screaming “We never mortgaged none tickets” but I don’t get the immediate jump to Money Laundering, nor that in writing the Ticketus debt off that Administration was in any way impeded (quite the opposite in fact).
I’m aware that there is of course a further complication with Wavetower in the middle of this as well, so on that note I’m going to “Do an Eco” and shut up and research some stuff!
Bawsman says:
November 14, 2014 at 7:55 am
=====================================
It might be possible to do so provides you had play-offs involving enough teams.
This has helped improve the current set-up but the other thing that was important was the spreading of money a bit. I think we need more of this. One thing that spoiled football for supporters of smaller teams was the knowledge that relegation meant a massive drop in finance – unless you went immediately back up and that often didn’t happen. It would mean a weaker team, often a less attractive team.
Duffers did claim after taking over admin that they had passed papers to the Police
So not sure it’s only the Accounts / QC Opinion thing
That looks too easy, they would have covered backsides on that in normal procedure
Methinks this is MUCH bigger
Maybe wrong for sure – but 😉
mtp
Good afternoon, Boys & Girls.
In Media Studies this term we have been exploring Scottish Mainstream Media journalists’ use of obfuscation and revisionism as diversionary tactics whenever facts clearly conflict with the author’s / employer’s agenda.
By referencing the copy of the article written today by Chris McLauchlin of the BBC, which you’ll find at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30053692 , we’re going to debate the subject:
“Chris Mclaughlin is to sports journalism, as Neil Patey is to accountancy”
You have 60 seconds to prepare.
Smugas says:
November 14, 2014 at 4:29 pm
Ticketus are a legitimate ST lending vehicle.
————————————————-
@smugas with respect I think you are missing the point.
On 15 February 2012 Rangers Auditors are stating to the Rangers Board wrt to the Ticketus deal: ‘We were concerned, on hearing the details, that this could constitute financial assistance by the company for the purchase of its own shares. As Rangers is a Plc, this would be unlawful.
‘We were informed that the company has obtained a QC Opinion that this is not the case but, despite our repeated requests, we have yet to receive a copy of that opinion’.
The Auditors if you read my two pieces couldn’t untangle or understand the Ticketus deal from the info dragged out of Rangers and were miffed they weren’t informed of the transaction by Rangers but HMRC.
Rangers’ Auditors from the info they extracted with difficulty from their client were clear that this deal didn’t appear to be the way that Ticketus normally did business but that doesn’t mean that Ticketus acted in an untoward way.
The Auditors were clearly exasperated by their client and the tone of the 4 page document – there’s a lot more detail that I haven’t included and other issues – makes me believe that the Auditors were getting their position on paper because they saw the clouds gathering.
Grant Thornton appeared extremely worried about the details of the financing deal and they also communicated that to C and W by copying them in on the letter.
The letter states that the Auditors raised the Ticketus deal on 16 January 2012 with ‘David’ and Ken Olverman – presumably because they had just learnt of it from HMRC.
A month later the Auditors still didn’t understand it and were struggling to get details from their client and still awaited the QC’s opinion.
OK, bite size chunks again! (I meant the research dig as a compliment btw. sheesh!)
So two days into admin the auditors GT are putting down on paper that they’re a/ miffed and mean business and b/ confused by the Ticketus deal. As you say they are putting it down on paper a month after a meeting with the board who promised David (Greir) would have followed up on. The reasons for this are obvious.
Their concern with the Ticketus deal is one of Financial Assistance NOT Money Laundering. In essence it is drawn down too early. Rather than Whyte completing the purchase, £1 to dave, 18m to Lloyds and then drawing down the Ticketus funds to repay wherever he got the £18m from, somewhere off the radar presumably 😆 he cuts out the middle man and draws down the Ticketus funds before he owns the season tickets that he’s mortgaged. Financial Assistance. Not Laundering.
Now, if we can assume Whitehouse and Clark are oblivious to all things RFC before the 14th of Feb, my point (which I stand by and don’t think I’m missing at all) is that they don’t walk in the door and immediately think oops, that’s Laundering that is.
Whyte claiming he didn’t mortgage the tickets to the Daily Record when Clark and Whitehouse can see that he;s clearly paying them for something would come under company privelage, until such time as they sought clarification from GT.
Roddy News
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11231964/Former-Rangers-owner-Craig-Whyte-set-to-face-arrest-warrant-as-four-others-are-detained-by-police.html
In a further development, the Telegraph understands that while Wallace and Nash were still in their posts, documents related to the 2012 share issue were passed to the Serious Fraud Office for investigation. The SFO had no comment to make last night.
Paul McConville wrote a very good piece on Project William which includes emails passing between Grier and CW in February 2012 wrt to the administration process.
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/revealed-craig-whytes-master-plan-he-came-up-with-the-incubator-company/
Well worth a look
highfibre says:
November 14, 2014 at 4:53 pm
‘…..Since C&W were investigated and cleared for the way they ran the administration, today’s arrests are more likely to be to do with the unlawful funding of the 2011 takeover and subsequent cover up (or failure to uncover what should have been obvious).’
———
That would be a pity. I would be disappointed if only a couple or three relatively minor figures were under question.
Bear in mind that the actual sale of RFC ,and how that sale may have been funded, is not where our principal interest lies.Certainly not my main personal interest. (Interesting, and instructive and endlessly entertaining though it may have been).
No. Of far greater significance STILL is that a club was permitted to lie and cheat its dishonourable way to some kinds of ‘football success’ and was essentially unpunished in any proportionate way for that cheating.
And the purchasers ,whether legal or illegal,of the assets of a defunct club have been and continue to be allowed to claim that a new club founded by them is the same cheating football club.
Whether the likes of bent lawyers and/or administrators or small-time financial crooks go to jail is of absolutely secondary interest.
The real baddies are those in positions of trust and honour ,with serious responsibilities to maintain the integrity and honour of a Sport, who in effect and for whatever complex of reasons, make liars and cheats of themselves.
And mugs of the rest of us.
By all means let the small fry fry.
But let’s also clear out those in office who allowed the fry to pollute the water in the first place.
( Nice to be back ( last night), by the way. I would not have believed how much I would miss my daily fix of TSFM.)
If anyone caught it I removed my own post of qrt an hour ago because on checking the link I could not see what I thought I had in first read.
Notice that Roddy time for filing article – 5.00pm GMT
mtp
And what is a must read is Paul’s magnus opus on the various CW dealings from 2011 to 2012 with all the main players and actions.
It’s long and detailed but most things are there and I’m sure Crown Office has a reference copy 😆
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/some-questions-for-david-grier-and-the-administrators-of-rangers/
John Clark says:
November 14, 2014 at 5:27 pm
highfibre says:
November 14, 2014 at 4:53 pm
‘…..Since C&W were investigated and cleared for the way they ran the administration, today’s arrests are more likely to be to do with the unlawful funding of the 2011 takeover and subsequent cover up (or failure to uncover what should have been obvious).’
=====================================================
That would be a pity. I would be disappointed if only a couple or three relatively minor figures were under question.
Of far greater significance STILL is that a club was permitted to lie and cheat its dishonourable way to some kinds of ‘football success’ and was essentially unpunished in any proportionate way for that cheating.
=====================================================
@JC I agree in principle with what you say but that is not the job of the police in pursuing criminal charges.
But who knows what useful info will be shaken-out in the criminal process which could be useful in tackling the moral bankrupty and corruption endemic at Hampden.
==========================
@highfibre – let’s not jump the gun as we haven’t a scoobie what evidence the cops have and might uncover and I don’t really think they’ll be too bothered about any professional having a clean bill of health from their professional body.
twopanda says:
November 14, 2014 at 5:24 pm
0 0 Rate This
Roddy News
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11231964/Former-Rangers-owner-Craig-Whyte-set-to-face-arrest-warrant-as-four-others-are-detained-by-police.html
In a further development, the Telegraph understands that while Wallace and Nash were still in their posts, documents related to the 2012 share issue were passed to the Serious Fraud Office for investigation. The SFO had no comment to make last night.
,,,,,,,,,,,,
I`ve had a hunch all along that TRFC were “loaned” the RFC IP by Green or a Green Co
If so
There would be an IPO accounting issue if the RFC IP is shown on the TRFC books as an asset despite the existence of another transaction somewhere showing it is owned by Green and “loaned” to TRFC.
If so
Then this would be material information that ought to have been shown in the IPO prospectus It should also have been disclosed to Ashley by Green when he acquired the Stadium naming rights
If, Wallace and Nash did pass on stuff on the IPO to the Serious Fraud Office then where could this go?
One thing I`m pretty sure is the SMSM have been sitting on a lot beholding to their PR Chums
SMSM seems intent on continuing 3 years non-reporting of the real stuff
mtp
ecobhoy says:
November 14, 2014 at 5:40 pm
Agreed, the IPA could well end up covered in well deserved ordure, with any luck
Re the Highfibre/Smugas debate.
A spokesman for Duff and Phelps(Marty Dauer) today said that D&P had cooperated with the police in this enquiry, and that the matters being investigated related to work done when the three (G,C and W) were employees of MCR. This business was acquired by D & P in October 2011. The work was on behalf of Rangers.
This would seem to remove the Grant Thornton situation from the debate… UNLESS all three were fully aware of the circumstances anyway,having been involved earlier.
Since no-one from GT has been detained, we could perhaps accept that they reported their misgivings to SOCA.
Interestingly, the administration period effectively ended on 13th June 2012. On 25th June 2012 the Crown Office instructed Strathclyde Police to investigate the purchase of Rangers.
Maybe the Crown were giving D&P some time to follow GT`s example?
Thanks odd job. Yes I noticed the 2011 mcr reference for “all three” too! I put it down to inaccurate reporting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20074388
You gotta love those tapes 😆
Mr Grier said: “I’ll tell you what we’re doing with that just so you…”
Mr Whyte: “Yeah.”
Mr Grier: “We, we went to see counsel yesterday and had a full sort of debrief of all the email correspondence.”
Mr Whyte: “Yep.”
Mr Grier: “Now, the fact is that we probably did know what was going on with Ticketus. There’s no email traffic whatsoever.”
Mr Whyte: “That says that you did?”
Mr Grier: “That says that we did.”
Mr Whyte: “But we all know that you did and f****** hell.”
Mr Grier: “Yeah, yeah. There’s no…we were not involved in dealing with Ticketus directly.”
Mr Whyte: “Yeah. So you knew the structures of the deal. You were dealing with Lloyds.”
Mr Grier: “Absolutely.”
Mr Whyte: “And the Ticketus part was Saffreys.”
Mr Grier “Yeah. So we’ve maintained that line quite rigorously.”
PS to Smugas, Ticketus is owned by Octopus Investments.
Well that`s four detained to be vanned up to Scotland over the weekend. They can`t be detained indefinitely so perhaps a Court appearance on Monday. If there is a Court appearance next week specific charges will be laid so maybe we`ll get a better idea of the detail of what`s involved.
mtp
Tonight’s news about four arrests and a warrant out for Whyte is what many of us have been waiting for since the Sevco Scandal got underway … it has now entered the legal system. This is the Beginning of the End.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/five-ways-to-hell/
Here is an uploaded copy of the full Grant Thornton letter to the RFC directors that ecobhoy has been referencing.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/246607970/2012-02-15-Grant-Thornton-Auditors-Letter
It’s always a Friday, isn’t it? With this development and a Scotland match tonight, who’s on league reconstruction announcement watch?
Also, BBC’s business reporter on Reporting Scotland managed to mention admin but not liquidation in his report. Awful stuff. How did he get a job reporting on business?
I just thought it might be handy to explain how these arrest things work and, might I say as a good Mungo boy, not from being on the receiving end of the process.
I should put the caveat out there that my experience is from south of the border but I would assume there might not be many differences from the Scots Law processes.
When officers kick off an investigation, they eventually amass enough material to come to the conclusion that there is enough prima facie evidence to come to the conclusion that an individual has a case to answer.
The officers may then confer with the CPS/Crown Office and be given the authority to bring the suspect in for questioning under caution after which consideration will be given to a charge etc.
Officers then have to decide do they tap the suspect on the should and say they’d like a word, albeit under caution in the presence of a lawyer, OR do they go in at an early hour to arrest a suspect as they fear either flight, non cooperation or destruction/obstruction of evidence.
It seems that the boys in Blue today decided on the latter but they will have gone in there with quite a lot of evidence already in their locker.
They then have 24 hours to do their interviews in the light of what they have and what they find when they execute their arrest and search warrants at the home address.
At the end of this they have 24 hours to either charge or release on bail pending further enquiries. They could release the suspect free of all allegations but this is unlikely here.
My view is that all four will be bailed later today/tomorrow.
However, one or two sphincters will be twitching tonight as a result of this Police action.
IMO the four people arrested may have worked in tandem in the action concerned BUT once they are in a custody suite they will be on their own and isolated from each other as they are interviewed. After all other people may have made more out of this than they did.
That’s when their little minds will start working and self preservation may well come into play.
Sensitive, professional souls like these will not fancy bumping into Big Bubba on D Wing.
Time to get the popcorn in as this is all about to get VERY interesting.
He is the copy of a (long) tweet by CF on 03/09/2013 that I retained for some reason.
James Forrest says:
November 14, 2014 at 6:50 pm
Tonight’s news about four arrests and a warrant out for Whyte is what many of us have been waiting for since the Sevco Scandal got underway … it has now entered the legal system. This is the Beginning of the End.
=============================================
With all due respect, JF, whilst I would also love it, just love it [ 😉 ] if this really is the beginning of the end…I have my doubts.
As we have observed over the last 3 years or so, nothing seems to go the way the Bampots expect.
I agree though, that if these 4 are actually charged in the next few days, then yes the wheels will start turning a bit quicker to a specific end point.
But who knows: maybe they have been brought in to see what – if anything – they can get out of them. To put ‘the frighteners’ on them ? I’m only guessing.
If no charges are made, then it could prove to be merely a temporary distraction.
But hope I’m wrong.
StevieBC says:
November 14, 2014 at 7:18 pm
“This is not the End, or even the Beginning of the End,
but, it is the End of the Beginning”
Puffs contentedly on cigar, while contemplating a large Scapa.
Couldn’t resist, I’ll get ma coat
Martin says:
November 14, 2014 at 6:31 pm
“Mr Grier: “Now, the fact is that we probably did know what was going on with Ticketus. There’s no email traffic whatsoever.””
——————————
I think that’s the crux right there. In order for Whyte to get a mortgage on Ranger’s season tickets he needed to own the clumpany. In order to fund the acquisition of the clumpany Whyte needed Ticketus funds. The only way to bridge this paradox was through fraud.
Given the characters mentioned we must be talking about the sale by (S)DM/Lloyd’s to Whyte in May 2011.
Betts had joined Whyte as a director of Wavetower, the acquisition vehicle used to buy Rangers, a couple of months previously.
Grier had been in play back in the days of early RTC which is before my time. However Charlotte did drop a note detailing a discussion involving Whyte, Betts, Grier, Withey, Lloyd’s and Ticketus concerning circa £24M funds back in January 2011.
Others have mentioned Withey’s ‘proof of funds’ role concerning the Collyer Bristow pension fund money.
What still bemuses me is that Whyte would appear to have had correspondence, despite what he tells Grier, that would have illustrated the prior knowledge of Ticketus that the mortgage was being made against assets Whyte did not own at that point. Why did Whyte take the £24M hit for the Ticketus debt when he could have argued that it was never a legally enforcable contract? The season tickets were the security for the deal effectively but at the time of the agreement Whyte didn’t own the season tickets.
I could agree to sell you the Empire State Building but if I didn’t own it at the time of forming the contract then I think you might have difficulty enforcing the terms.
The entrainment of Paul Clark and David Whitehouse of Duff & Phelps has likely been enabled in their dovetailing with David Grier. Even setting aside the Grier link, there has been enough audio to illustrate the cosy relationship between Whyte and D&P.
Whyte seems to have been left exposed at various junctures. Not clear if he was really controlling the big picture. Add to that the CF stuff and CW not only felt the need to tape conversations, these seemed to have reached the public domain. Add to that he seems unworried by writing a film script. Odd actions for someone who`s blamed for the lot.
So after detentions this morning once again the bogey man seems to have hit the headlines.
My guess is our oft SMSM headlined bogey man (SMSM have no problem plastering his name) has no intention of being the scapegoat to cover up the actions – of those who made real money – he didn`t.
Polis could have swooped on CW over the last two years, but instead chose today`s lot to action
But we`ll see
mtp
I’ll hold my hands up and recognise immediately that there are several finer legal minds than mine on this site.
My question is this. Assuming some sort of illegality is confirmed, what are the likely implications? The cynic in me believes that a big part of the overall strategy has been to create a massively complex narrative and sequence of dodgy deals that is simply impossible to unravel.
I love the irony of Ireland being one down to a Shaun Maloney goal.