History, Neighbours and Made Up News

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History, Neighbours and Made Up News

Or, a story of how and why Mr Lawwell consigned resolution 12 to the deepest grass;
by Finloch


“It’s about history and being neighbours”, young Elisabeth said to her mum.

And it has to be done for tomorrow, Elisabeth said.

“I’m supposed to ask in an in-person interview about what life was like where an older neighbour grew up and what was life like when the neighbour was my age.

It’s not my fault that we’re new here and haven’t spoken to our old, next door neighbour yet and don’t even know his name.

“I’ve an idea her mother said, why don’t you make it up.

Pretend you’re asking him questions and then write down the answers you think he’d give”.

“It’s supposed to be true”, Elisabeth said. “It’s for News”.

“They’ll never know”, her mother said. “Just make it up.

The real news is always made up anyway”.

 

publicLibraryI was lucky enough to catch Ali Smith at the Edinburgh Book Festival.

I was part of a very diverse audience and unusually for this kind of event nobody in the sold-out Charlotte Square tent had a Scooby about what she was going to share with us.

Most would have been expecting a reading or two from her recent short story collection, Public Library, about the cynical, thoughtless and almost silent and unpublicised demise of Libraries up and down our land.

Our libraries.

Our land.

Ali is always value for money though and was amazing, reading from her as yet unpublished “Autumn” book, the first she said of a four-book series.

As I listened to her, I was also thinking and juggling around at the back of my mind about what I was going to write for this blog, having been asked for my thoughts, as a non-involved, non-Celtic supporter, on how I see the Resolution 12 situation.

 

Well Ali’s words stung like a bee and proved quite inspirational. The wisdom and clarity in her new books is highly relevant to all of us who care about Scottish Football and Resolution 12 including Mr Lawwell, Mr Doncaster, Mr Regan, Mr Petrie and us too – the real stakeholders.

 

Ali also shared with us a Bernard Maclaverty insight from when he once visited a school as part of (I think) a Scottish creative writing initiative and in the course of his talk asked some youngsters,

“What is fiction” ?

Someone put their hand up and said “Please Sir, it’s made up truth”.

 

Near the end Ali also got to talking about post Brexit Britain and used the chaos to ask the bigger question.

“Why do we never seem to have real debates about anything and why in any “debate” we might see or read that there never seems to be room for to-ing and fro-ing on points because everyone seems to have already made their minds up and just wants to maintain their status quos, achieve their own personal agendas or to steamroller us all to their point of view”.

 

“People in power seem to be genuinely scared of honest debates”, she said.

She asked how without more real discussions and insightful and open minded debates can any of us (and the debaters themselves too) learn because without that we will just get more of what we’ve had.

And that’s not good enough.

 

So thanks Ali I’m going to combine these three things from your hour along with two personal career experiences and review Mr Lawwell and his company’s reaction to the bona fide Resolution 12 raised by some of his shareholders a few years ago.

(My career experiences were as the head of a small, and treated as unimportant, company that was part of a worldwide group of companies run (badly) out of the US; and my time as head of a trade association that had two very dominant and troublesome members).

 

My Five Insights to review Resolution 12 are.

  1. Some people think  “made up news is fine” and feed us all with it all the time.
  2. Don’t expect real discussions or debates about anything in your club. No two way dialogues, except from those about money once a year.
  3. “Made up Truths” become gospel not to be challenged.
  4. The people running the club know they are smarter and more important than any of their minority or remote stakeholders.
  5. All decisions that really matter in football or indeed in any business are pre-agreed and never discussed in the open.

So now to what I think of Resolution 12.

My starting point is to say this. It is wrong to see or to discuss Mr Lawwell and Resolution 12 as being about the awarding of a license – or the boardroom processes since The Requisitioners first raised it.

Sadly, I’d suggest Requisition 12 was history before it was even raised.

In the late Murray days at Ibrox and in the early Whyte ownership period there had been rumours, and I’m certain deep and meaningful business discussions between the heads of the SFA and SPL and their key committee members.

You can be sure that the SFA, SPL, Celtic and others were all watching the post Murray Rangers situation closely, and the new regime at Ibrox and related financial stuff would have been the talk of the exclusive football steamies.

Despite what some Celtic fans believe, the reality has always been that while Rangers may have dominated (just) all things SFA and SPL, nothing was ever done without the knowledge of and input from the green side of the Old Firm business model.

Sadly, I’d suggest Requisition 12 was history before it was even raised.

Scotland’s unique, idiosyncratic, religio-political old firm business model was not just about driving the individual Glasgow teams to their leviathan duopoly in Scottish football. We all knew (because we were told so) that it was also the commercial bedrock of the business that is Scottish Football.

And yes, for a while David Murray thought his club was bigger than the Old Firm, but he and his ego had moved on when all this stuff happened.

Put simply, Regan who was quite new, was convinced at the time – and still is absolutely certain – that the SFA and Scottish Football needed a dominant Celtic and Rangers, and he also personally needed and needs the support of their CEO’s.

Doncaster too was convinced that the SPL needed Celtic and Rangers arch rivalry with all it entails, delivering TV monies and maximizing his bonuses. He too also personally required and requires the support of the Old Firm CEO’s.

Lawwell the astute numbers man, under a constant watchful eye from Dublin, needed Rangers to ensure his business plan did not develop un-fillable black holes.

And yes, for a while David Murray thought his club was bigger than the Old Firm, but he and his ego had moved on when all this stuff happened.

Importantly, Peter was also one of a small influential football group who effectively controlled the actions of Regan and Doncaster. Nothing strategic would ever have been done by either of them without his involvement and input. That doesn’t mean he necessarily knew all the detail about  Craig’s UEFA license shenanigans but he’d have had his suspicions.

And you know something, – at a squeeze I think he and Desmond might have thought keeping a Rangers team alive (for its future dependable revenue streams) was maybe even worth one season’s lost Champions League status.

There is no doubt in my mind that in 2011 Peter and the Celtic Board were worried but supportive of and committed to keeping the Rangers company alive.

Looking back I don’t know when Lawwell and Desmond actually discovered de facto that Rangers should not have been awarded the license.

Was it before it was awarded?

Was it after by which time it was too late anyway?

Those would be two good questions to ask them.

I’d suggest that by the time they knew for sure it was too late, but I could be wrong.

Anyway history shows that pretty quickly after McCoist failed in Europe, Lawwell committed his club to the complex and complicated secret Five-Way Agreement and all it entailed.

Celtic were senior signed-up members of the attempt to help protect and leverage the future blue revenue streams into the SPL then the SPL 2 then the bottom level.

It was all about the blue pound.

It was all about the blue pound into the future.

It was all about the blue pound into the future being central in the business model at Celtic that needed (then and now) a blue pound generating Rangers.

We all know now that compromise was somehow reached ahead of the Brechin cup tie in the summer of 2012.

Many – in fact most of –  Scottish football fans were glad that football had once again broken out, having become fed up with all the politics, and were glad to return to talking about players and stuff.

Football gossip is after all more comfortable than finding out we’d all been cheated for years.

Not all fans were ready to “Move-on” however.

Some, like many of us on this site and others like it wanted to dig deeper and examine just what happened and who did what.

Some wanted Celtic as the most wronged club to do and say more about Sporting Integrity.

Some wanted to rub their old rivals into the dirt.

Some wanted a full and frank review because they believed that without Sporting Integrity we would make the same mistakes in the future.

I’d be one of these fans.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Celtic shareholders who pieced together the jigsaw that led to Resolution 12, correctly identified that their club were illegally denied a place in the Champions League and denied substantial revenues.

Fair play to them.

If  I was a Celtic shareholder I personally would have wanted to know why my board had not pursued these significant revenues that were due to my company.

It was and is a big deal.

No it was and is a huge deal.

It remains an open sore and everyone involved seems to have ducked any blame.

I applaud those Requisitioner Shareholders for how they have gone about the process, and I have a huge respect for everything they have done on behalf of Celtic and fans of all Scottish clubs.

However in my opinion it was always doomed to failure because of the simple fact that their own club, having been an integral part of the whole murky “Armageddon” process, had already moved on into the new world they had helped to forge, and did not and could not look back.

So Resolution 12 was treated politely but cleverly by the club in the finest traditions of Sir Humphrey.

They did not want to fight their shareholders corner then and I’d suggest still don’t – and wont.

 

So going back to my five points earlier.

 

  1. Mr Lawwell et al did not want to establish the real truth, which they already knew. Hey had already signed up to what had been reported, moved the club on and spent his personal bonuses along the way no doubt.
  2. Mr Lawwell et al did not want a real debate because he and his small team had already done what they believed at the time to be right for the club they were paid to manage.
    Nothing more to say.
    And yes he could mumble agreement that Sporting Integrity is important when cornered but between us chaps it wouldn’t ever have filled the yawning gaps in the stands at Celtic Park without a Rangers counterbalance.
  3. Rangers are now back and the Old Firm is once again dominating Scottish Football.
    The truth at Celtic Park is we need each other and season book sales and TV revenues are up proving my point all along.
  4. We tolerate the intellectual end of our support, just, but they are hard work and you’d think they own the club.
    We even quite enjoy some of their stuff sometimes as long as its not too political but  we have a business to run and quite frankly sometimes they just don’t get it. They should realise the SFA and the SPFL are there to do a job for us and we keep them on a short enough leash.
  5. We will always be grateful to Fergus for what he did. We benefited at the time from the fan’s money and now run a very successful shareholder liaison programme. Once a year we have an AGM and try to manage the reality of running a business while having to hear from people who would prefer us to regress to what we were in the 1880s. Shareholders are fine but this club is a business and must be run as such.

 

My Five Insights sum up the position and stance of the Celtic Board.

I don’t know what will happen to Resolution 12.

The club never wanted it because they are a business and see the world differently from the group of fans who see themselves as the Celtic soul.

I applaud these Celtic fans.

Celtic does not deserve you.

About the author

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Finloch author

Finloch has been a member of SFM since it's inception. A Hearts fan, he also penned the blog, Look Back to Look Forward

1,353 Comments so far

Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on6:24 pm - Sep 19, 2016


HIRSUTEPURSUITSEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 17:38
NEEPHEIDSEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 16:01________________________There is a document in the ether purporting to show a list of players – still registered with Rangers – where permission was given for them to play for Sevco. .It seems highly unlikely that proper registration procedures were followed at the time . 
    ——————————————————————————————————–
   From a vague memory HP, (happy to be corrected), there was also a rule change, permitting “trialists” to be fielded in the first round (and first round only) of the fish supper cup.

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tony

tonyPosted on6:42 pm - Sep 19, 2016


STEVIEBC
i honestly think he is working his ticket,could be wrong though he actually could be merde

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on7:28 pm - Sep 19, 2016


HIRSUTEPURSUIT

SEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 17:11        

JINGSO.JIMSIESEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 16:48
==========================================

It was much more black and white that was being portrayed. Clyde gave the game away. There was no “conditional” agreement in the SFL’s acceptance on Sevco as a new member..Sevco became a SFL member when Resolution 1 was passed on 13th July 2012. Under SFA Article 6.2 Sevco became a registered SFA member automatically at the same time..The wording of statements are misleading or (at best) ambiguous; but all subsequent references to membership transfer can only be in relation to the “full” SFA membership, still at that time, held by Rangers.
————————————————————————————————

I’m sorry to nitpick, but that would mean that Sevco Scotland had two SFA memberships at the same time.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=3&newsID=10204

From the above link:

‘Sevco Scotland Ltd bought Rangers Football Club PLC’s share in the SPL and membership of the Scottish FA as part of their acquisition of assets. Under Article 14.1, Sevco Scotland are requesting the transfer of the existing membership of Oldco. This is different to an application for a new membership, which generally requires four years of financial statements.’

That means that either the membership you indicate they obtained automatically by becoming a member of the SFL on 13.07.12 was later rescinded, the RFC (IA) membership wasn’t actually transferred, or they held two memberships until June 2013 & the amalgamation of the SPL & SFL (or perhaps still do?) .

The ‘conditional’ aspect of SFL membership was due to the process of the SFA being unable to action anything for Sevco Scotland until they had an actual league to play in & Sevco Scotland then agreeing to the requirements of the 5WA. Had they told the SFA to stick the 5WA where the sun don’t shine, I suspect they would have found the offer of a berth in the SFL withdrawn.

Let’s also not forget that the team that played in the Brechin match were all registered with the SFA to RFC (IA), who were under the control of Duff & Phelps, not Charles Green.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on7:45 pm - Sep 19, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIALSEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 16:14       7 Votes 
NEEPHEIDSEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 16:01      “Is it just my imagination, or were some of the players for Sevco against Brechin technically on loan from RFC?”    ———————————————————————————————————————————–    I think you may be referring to the letter from Duff & Phelps Neeps, which granted permission for Rangers(I.L.) registered players, to take to the field for Sevco Scotland.    I’m sure somebody could post a copy.
hope this is the one you are looking for

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on7:49 pm - Sep 19, 2016


And this is the bottom part i believe
one day i will get around to putting all this stuff in order;-)

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on7:58 pm - Sep 19, 2016


CLUSTER ONESEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 19:45

   That’s the one mate. Cheers. 04

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AuldheidPosted on9:01 pm - Sep 19, 2016


HirsutePursuitSeptember 19, 2016 at 13:13 
Thanks I remember now your point about the 14 days being the timeframe in which an application had to be made, not granted.
My interpretation/position (influenced from stuff in the 5 Way) is that Sevco from 13 July 2012 to 3 August 2012 moved from being a Registered Member of the SFA to being a Full Member, without having to go through the Associate SFA Membership class that applied as the norm for any other club entering the SFL wishing to become a Full SFA member in the fullness of time.
This is supported by
SFA Handbook Articles 2011/12
 4.2 Members shall be of three classes: full members: associate members: registered members.
 Article 6.2  A club or association shall be admitted as a registered member automatically by reason of its being admitted as a member of an Affiliated Association or an Affiliated National Association, or , in the case of a club in membership of or participation in an association. League or other combination of clubs formed in terms of Article 18 and in the case of an association by being formed in terms of Article 18 , provided it is not already an associate or full member . A registered member shall not be a member of more than one Affiliated Association or more than one Affiliated National Association.    A registered member may apply at any time to become an associate member.
 Article 6.3  A club or association desiring to qualify for full membership of the Scottish FA must first be admitted as an associate member . A club cannot be admitted as an associate member unless it meets and commits to continuing compliance with the Membership Criteria and amendments thereto as shall be promulgated by the Board from Time to time in connection with the membership of the Scottish FA.
Page 1
Definitions. SFA Membership Criteria means the criteria promulgated by the Board from time to time in connection with qualifying for associate membership of the Scottish FA in terms of article 6.3
SFL Rule 16 says.
REGISTRATION WITH SFA A CONDITION OF MEMBERSHIP
A Member or Associate Member (of SFL) who is not already a full or associate
member of the Scottish Football Association must make application to
become a full or associate member of the Scottish Football Association (as
the case may be) within fourteen (14) days of being admitted to membership
of the League failing which its membership of the League will lapse, and in
the event that the application is unsuccessful, its membership will lapse
upon that decision being intimated to the League.
That “as the case may be” suggests in conjunction art 6.3  that an application for a Full SFA Membership was not open to Sevco although an application for an Associate SFA Membership was and that for commercial reasons, Green (nor perhaps SFA/SPL) wanted to go that route and so the application that was made within 14 days of SFL membership was not to upgrade the Registered Membership to Full Membership, but to transfer a Full SFA Membership to an new applicant under the discretionary powers of the Article 14 that it titled Prohibition of Transfer, but still enables it.
I see your point(s) and I’m not going to argue my alternative (not sure it matters), but I don’t think Sevco were applying for an SFA membership as a Registered Member looking for an upgrade under the 5 way, because Art 6.3 suggests they had to be an Associate SFA Member first to apply, but instead were applying totally under the auspices of Art 14.
Thus they never made an application within 14 days for an Associate SFA Membership which they were entitled to do and so that path lapsed by 27th July, but it did not matter because a Full SFA Membership, that was conditional on Dundee obtaining RFC’s SPL Membership share, that did not happen until 3 August, was on its way anyway under Article 14.
 

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goosygoosyPosted on9:06 pm - Sep 19, 2016


Speculation
The ideas that a career criminal and serial tax offender would voluntarily invest £20m in a Scottish football club losing money hand over fist is frankly laughable
Nope
IMO
The so called £20m which DCK is alleged to have invested in the MIH co that owned RFC is almost certainly a contrived PR image of some elaborate and probably legal scam involving Minty and MIH
The real purpose?
To transfer money from SA to the UK
Method?
Possibly a contrived series of transactions which included “sale” of undelivered steel products valued at £20m which were “paid”  in SA currency , converted to sterling, returned to DCK in the UK but shown in the MIH books as a £20m stake in the MIH co that owned RFC
Proof?
Whereabouts in SA tax regulations does it say an SA Citizen is allowed to repatriate £20m to the UK for the purposes of investing in a UK Steel Co?
Yet he isn`t allowed to repatriate any sizeable amount of cash to the UK? 
Doesn`t add up
More likely
Minty and DCK had things to hide regarding MIH and RFC accounting practices. Could this explain why RFC accounts for 2010 2011 were
buried by the new owner?
Does it explain why DCK hung around after the sale for £1? Was he looking after the interests of Minty in exchange for hiding the mechanics of the so called £20m invested in the MIH co that owned RFC?
It could all be complete nonsense of course
But
Is there a grain of truth in there somewhere?
Or put another way
Does anybody believe these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt?

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SmugasPosted on9:34 pm - Sep 19, 2016


Interesting and so grateful to you lads and lasses with your accompanying ‘libraries.’

Thats an interesting twist, the Clyde part HP.  Thanks for that.  This was obviously pre, or at least during, the 5WA negotiation period as it’s interesting to see relegated Dunfermline’s name mentioned.  Now  Dundee had to be promoted having just won the championship and RFCIL were no more so couldn’t be there.  But why would last place Dunfermline be mentioned?  Bear in mind they’d finished behind the post admin points deducted RFCIL?  So how could they conceivably stay up?  Dundee saying nah yer alright we don’t want promoted?  Nope.  RFC finding 160m down the back of the sofa?  Unlikely (they’d looked).  Or some bampot somewhere suggesting that in all other examples of cheating, regardless of the self inflicted penalty for suffering (as if) an admin event, a statutory 3 point penalty per game would apply.  Could be, as Henry the mild mannered janitor was wont to say.

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SmugasPosted on10:15 pm - Sep 19, 2016


Just for some lighter relief from the studious efforts above I had the questionable fortune to catch a bit of radio shortbreads football show tonight as I taxied the kids.  On the basis the subject matter was, obviously, Joey Barton, I can now exclusively reveal from inside sources that Graham Spiers and in particular Kenny McIntyre (I didn’t catch who the other two solemn voices were but I think it was Barry Ferguson and Richard Wilson (anyone seeing a pattern emerging) have absolutely no idea what the word compensation actually means.  It would be entirely unusual for the employer to be the one deciding that nothing is payable but it will be in this case because a/. Barton is over rated b/. Barton is overpaid (none of them could bring themselves to admit it was money Rangers could ill afford) and finally, their breathless masterpiece as it were, that compensation would not be in any way payable because “He isnae very good.”

Cutting edge journalism at its finest.  And to think Radio4 used to have monopoly on radio comedy at 6.30!

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SmugasPosted on10:25 pm - Sep 19, 2016


Oops.  Apologies to my heilan pals at my post at 21.34.  Dundee had not won the championship, that honour going to Ross County.  But the point is the same regardless.  Why still mention Dunfermline?  Had they been wronged in some way?

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HirsutePursuitPosted on10:33 pm - Sep 19, 2016


Membership of the SFA in 2012 had three classes – but every club in membership of the SPL and SFL were “registered” members. 
.
In late July,  every club in those leagues – except Sevco – were also a “full” or an “associate”  SFA member. 
.
The SFL insisted that its members applied for “full” or “associate” SFA membership – but that didn’t remove the fact that those clubs were also “registered” SFA members. 
.
These days the definition of member in the SFA articles is a full and/or registered member. Every member of the SPFL holds both classes of membership. 

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John ClarkPosted on12:02 am - Sep 20, 2016


smugas @ 22.15 today.
Yes, I listened to the rfc (il) sportsound supporters club ,but I was much more interested in their new role as an employment agency, putting Barry right up there as the next manager of supposed BBC’s retiree Chick’s lifelong club St Mirren! 
As we all know, Barry is not too thick as not to to be able to read a rehearsed script of answers to questions put to him. 
“if st mirren come knocking at your door…”
” I’ve always wanted to go full-time…… …I’ve had two years (making mistakes that don’t matter) …. ready to get into full time, but my heart, my whole being ,is focussed on Clyde… ”
That kind of guff.
Let’s just see if our impartial BBC gives air time to other potential applicants for the job.
It really is the pits, when the BBC allows such flagrant misuse of the air waves by a partisan coterie.
( I am reduced tonight go using one of thae feckin wee very limited tablet thingies, which I am not able to use properly , so my apologies if this appears in microscopic print)

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Tincks

TincksPosted on12:19 am - Sep 20, 2016


A lengthy Joey Barton interview in the Guardian.  Seems to have taken place between last weeks bust up and this mornings meeting.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/19/joey-barton-interview-conflict-rangers

There is some major mince in there but also a few harrowing/interesting anecdotes, particularly with regard to his father when growing up, his brother’s murder conviction and when playing for Mike Ashley.

But there is one comment that stood out to me.

Rangers had decades of overspending.  What’s left afterwards?  Who picks up the pieces?

Hinting at some truths that could get him run out of town on a rail. 

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upthehoopsPosted on7:12 am - Sep 20, 2016


SMUGASSEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 22:15 
Just for some lighter relief from the studious efforts above I had the questionable fortune to catch a bit of radio shortbreads football show tonight as I taxied the kids.

==================================

I had to double check last night to make sure that show was not being broadcast from a Rangers fans social club. The host was a Rangers fan, as were the three guests, one of whom was also an ex Rangers Captain.  All the Barton debate surrounded how he had ‘disprespected’ Rangers, and how Rangers will now take their time to ensure they are on the correct legal ground. After all, they really don’t want to pay up his £25k a week contract do they, because that isn’t fair to Rangers who, eh, gave him the contract! There are not two sides to this story according to the BBC.

The show then became the BBC branch of the Mark Warburton Protection League. Of particular annoyance seemed to be Chris Sutton’s weekend comments about Warburton, so he was roundly trashed by the four wordly greats in the studio.  If Ronny Deila could have listened in he might have wondered why Sutton’s attacks on him last season did not draw the same anger.  Brendan Rodgers and Scott Brown must also wonder why Barton slagging them off was a subject of such mirth in the Sportsound studio. Warburton’s honourable status as Rangers Manager obviously offers him free support at the Licence payers expense. 

They then went on to express their ire towards St Mirren for sacking ex-Rangers man Alex Rae. Following that they shamelessly touted studio guest Barry Ferguson for the job. As it stands a court has ruled that Ferguson and Rae owe the taxman around £3m between them from their time at Rangers. I’ll leave it at that.

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The_SteedPosted on7:31 am - Sep 20, 2016


News this morning that Mr Barton is now being investigated for gambling on matches.

Normally, I would be delighted at this news as the fact that a Rangers player was being pulled up for something like this shows that the SFA are actually interested in enforcing the rules.

I guess it shows how absolutely messed up Scottish Football is then that I actually feel sorry for Joey – with everything that is going on at the moment, there’s a very strong aroma of fish in the air…

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shug

shugPosted on7:42 am - Sep 20, 2016


Joey joey joey when will you learn to keep it shut or maybe looking for a bit longer holiday 3 week suspension betting on Celtic to get beat by 3 goals or more now Celtic tried to hijack the deal to take him to the dead zone ha ha ha, or is it a laugh I could see that being the case but bet Celtic are glad they failed in that one. I think the barely animated people are pulling out all the stops to make sure that if they sack him they will not need to pay up his contract I for one hope they do not succeed go one joey stick it to them.

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on7:43 am - Sep 20, 2016


Radio Scotland was truly cringeworthy last night. It was like Ricky Gervais had decided to make an episode of The Office but for Rangers FC, or whatever they’re currently known as, and pilot it on the radio. Probably the first and last time I will listen to this pantomime this season.

My favourite line was from the ’embarrassingly neutral’ Graham Spiers who twice stated that ‘Joey Barton has severely disrespected Rangers’. Warburton would have been loving the amount of ‘disrespect’ discussed but the other publicly funded buffoon, Richard Wilson, had clearly received his orders – he declares that Barton is a Warburton signing and that it totally goes against the signing policy of the board of signing young, promising players with a sell on value. You couldn’t make it up.

Make no mistake, the level 5 knives are out for both Barton and Warburton.
The board had a plan so it had, and then Warburton went out and bought all these antiques.
Richard Wilson is fast becoming a permanent embarrassment and occasional disgrace!

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shug

shugPosted on7:52 am - Sep 20, 2016


A high street bookies eh has anyone here ever seen a betfair shop in their high street betfair as far as I know is not strictly a bookies more a betting site I know timeform has something to do with them but think paddy power is the one but still betfair is online not in the high street.

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Bryce CurdyPosted on7:56 am - Sep 20, 2016


Smugas 21:34 and 22:55.
I respectfully (see what I did there) disagree.
Promote two and promote one with no relegation were both options in my opinion.  I didn’t understand at the time why the first became a fait accompli without any kind of debate or discussion.  There was just so much going on at the time I suppose.  Perhaps the Dundee derby was deemed commercially attractive.  And did Aberdeen not escape relegation in the past because of league reconstruction when there would have been the option to promote three clubs?

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tayred

tayredPosted on8:40 am - Sep 20, 2016


Another nugget from Bartons interview 

“But, after Celtic, I’m having to sit here and take it on the chin – however unjust I feel that is. It’s difficult when I’m playing at a level which, clearly, I’ve not played at before. It’s a much lower level and I’m trying to help people get to a higher level. They think me helping is me trying to say: ‘You’re not good enough.’ It’s difficult.”

So I’m not very good because I’m just too good….. Thats the problem with the Bartons of this world. They come up assuming its going to be a walk in the park, realise its a more competitive league than they thought, then run away claiming everyone else is to blame for their failure and that way ensure those down south maintain their blinkered view of Scottish football. Well done TRFC, bringing the game into disrepute by hiring the most disreputable bloke in the British game (player that is, plenty more disreputable eejits in the boardrooms)- who would have guessed it would end this way!!

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SmugasPosted on8:49 am - Sep 20, 2016


Re the Dunfermline issue I think the 1 up 1 down principle was decided upon once it became clear who the 1 down wouldn’t be if that makes sense.  Bear in mind Dundee were given 10 days notice of promotion if that as the leagues 2 and 3 participants would have been (apologies I forget now who was involved – it wasn’t on the tele then! or now!).  Its the inclusion of the possibility still of Sevco entering the 1st division that made their entry potentially all the more ‘conditional’ to use HP’s terminology.  One condition might have been that results involving RFCIL were overturned thus the club being demoted would have been one and the same as the one entering liquidation which would have left Dunfermline up and Ross Co joining them. 

Put it this way.  Are you telling me Dunfermline were asked if they wanted to stay up and said no? There is of course also the delicious irony that it was post admin * 2 Dundee that came up.

On the Aberdeen  question you are technically correct. Its one of these stories that changes on the teller’s stance.  The facts as I recall them were that the SPL 10 announced in advance that they would extend to  SPL 12 so there was to be no relegation.

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SmugasPosted on8:52 am - Sep 20, 2016


The Steed,

Not sure where that story’s coming from but I hope Joey’s got Ian Black’s number. 

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tayred

tayredPosted on9:00 am - Sep 20, 2016


SMUGASSEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 08:52
The Steed,
Not sure where that story’s coming from but I hope Joey’s got Ian Black’s number. 
————————-

Oh I dunno. This time round the aim for the establishment will surely be to get rid of Barton, not get him off with a tickle under the chin. If true I’d expect him to be used to show players once and for all just how terrible a crime it is. Poor Joey, another reason for TRFC to rip up his contract. I wonder what the SMSM will dredge up about him next?

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SmugasPosted on9:11 am - Sep 20, 2016


Apologies all, the key part of the SFL resolution is brought forward below.  Clarification is more for my benefit than anything!

(iii) That the Scottish Football League Members in terms of Rule 12 approve the resignation of either Dundee F.C. or Dunfermline Athletic F.C., whichever shall be admitted to join the Scottish Premier League for Season 2012/13, such resignation to take effect as at the date of admission of such club to the Scottish Premier League, notwithstanding that the requisite notice under Rule 12 shall not have been given.  Details of the series of measures referred to at (ii) above shall be made available to the Members in advance of the meeting and an opportunity for full discussion of those measures will be given prior to the proposals being put to the meeting

So Dunfermline were accepted into division 1 by default having swapped their SPL share with Ross County and the members were being asked to approve whether they could be lifted back up/out again to pick up the share that had been vacated but not dissolved since at this point, thanks to Lord Hodge’s hollybags, RFCIL weren’t technically liquidated.  The decision as to which club is implied to have been in the hands of the SPL clubs which would back up your argument re the Dundee derby I assume.  The SFL clubs are only being asked to vote on the relevant club’s resignation. 

The conditions that HP refers to – essentially the 5WA (outwith the standard condition re applying for full SFA membership status within 14 days) are possibly “the measures” referred to above but I suspect were wider concerns to do with TV rights, prize money distribution etc.  Said measures were the subject of resolution 2 suggesting that on satisfaction of the Board on said measures (and notice the Board committed to put said measures to the clubs PRIOR to their vote) that Sevco could potentially be inserted at Division 1 which of course was voted down.  

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normanbatesmumfc

normanbatesmumfcPosted on9:59 am - Sep 20, 2016


Bartongate!

Did anyone expect any different?
As previous posters have said it appears the “establishment” wants rid of this overpaid dud. After all, he’s served his purpose (season book sales uplift) and is now no better a player than the others available in the position.

I just hope Joey boy has pulled a fast one. Maybe he never bet on the Barca v Celtic game, but put the word out he’d had a good win backing Barca minus 3 goals. It would be priceless if he was shown the door for placing a bet he never placed, ensuring full contract compensation rights.

Either way I look forward to hear his full and frank discussion on his brief spell at Scotland’s newest senior club. I’m sure he won’t hold back and we may hear of special briefings on how to handle the myth and other awkward questions.

Interesting times ahead…… 

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tony

tonyPosted on10:12 am - Sep 20, 2016


Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell has said that an agent approached him saying Joey Barton wanted to sign for the Scottish champions but that there was no interest from his side.
In an interview to promote his new autobiography, Rangers midfielder Barton has claimed that Celtic wanted to sign him after the Ibrox club’s interest became public. The player said he was approached by an agent acting on Lawwell’s behalf but had already given Rangers a commitment to sign.
However, the Celtic chief has issued a statement denying interest, saying instead that an agent had approached him and told him that Barton was keen to move to Rangers’ city rivals instead of penning a deal at Ibrox.
 “I think Joey’s been had by a bit of a matchmaker here,” Lawwell said.
 
“I remember it well, we had just announced Brendan as our new manager and I was with our company secretary in London at the time. 
“An agent called me saying that Joey was going to sign for Rangers but he would really prefer to come to Celtic and were we interested in signing him, but it wasn’t something we wanted to pursue.
“These things happen to players sometimes in football, but needless to say we wish Joey well at his new club.”
Barton signed for Rangers in May but has since been involved in several controversial incidents. The midfielder is currently suspended by his club after a training ground bust-up and is under investigation by the Scottish FA over an alleged breach of strict gambling rules.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on10:59 am - Sep 20, 2016


He has a way with words, that Mr Lawwell.
“These things happen to players sometimes in football, but needless to say we wish Joey well at his new club.”
That will have a few raging .
What was the precedent set in the Ian Black case ?

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goosygoosyPosted on11:03 am - Sep 20, 2016


SHUGSEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 07:52  A high street bookies eh has anyone here ever seen a betfair shop in their high street betfair as far as I know is not strictly a bookies more a betting site I know timeform has something to do with them but think paddy power is the one but still betfair is online not in the high street.
,,,,,,,,,,
Betfair is an online betting exchange where basically nameless punters willing to act as a bookie for one bet on one event post their odds online for other nameless punters to bet against
The system requires both parties to open an account with Betfair who take a small percentage of the stake as commission
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If Barton has a Betfair account he can bet on anything where the site is offering odds. 
Disclosure of betting activity is most unlikely as it would require the cooperation of Betfair for details of one of their accounts to be revealed to 3rd parties.
Most likely Barton has disclosed certain bets were made and this information got into the public domain

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on11:11 am - Sep 20, 2016


SMUGAS

SEPTEMBER 19, 2016 at 21:34        

Interesting and so grateful to you lads and lasses with your accompanying ‘libraries.’

Thats an interesting twist, the Clyde part HP.  Thanks for that.  This was obviously pre, or at least during, the 5WA negotiation period as it’s interesting to see relegated Dunfermline’s name mentioned.  Now  Dundee had to be promoted having just won the championship and RFCIL were no more so couldn’t be there.  But why would last place Dunfermline be mentioned?  Bear in mind they’d finished behind the post admin points deducted RFCIL?  So how could they conceivably stay up?  Dundee saying nah yer alright we don’t want promoted?
————————————————

I’ve just had a look at the DAFC website & archives for June & July 2012. There are several ‘Statements From The Board’ that are worth reading.

http://www.dafc.co.uk/news.php?y=2012&m=6

The SPL/SFL didn’t have a framework within their rules for what was happening, or what actions they were taking. DAFC’s position was that they didn’t want Sevco Scotland parachuted into SFL1.

They’d also prepared themselves for a season in SFL1, signing several young players. They’d had a torrid time in the SPL in season 2011-12. They didn’t want to be in the SPL, especially at such short notice, in season 2012-13. They wanted to rebuild. 

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Tincks

TincksPosted on11:50 am - Sep 20, 2016


The Clumpany is normally good for a giggle but this mornings effort is quite glorious nonsense.  Wonderful stuff. 

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2016/09/20/barton-the-bard/

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tayred

tayredPosted on12:37 pm - Sep 20, 2016


Ah! I wondered when the press would start, and there we have it from the trusty BBC (www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37414051). “Obviously it started with Durrant.. bleh bleh”. No Barry you cretin, it started long before that, long, long before that. But that fairy tale has been whipped up without fail every bloody game since by the BBC and the Daily record. The usual Goebbels style approach taken with most TRFC stories – say it often enough and folk will believe it.

If by chance any member of the SMSM is looking in, you really don’t need to do any whipping up for this first game against the new club. The hatred is already there in abundance, if you have an ounce of common sense you should be trying to calm things down. I guess common sense will never be allowed to get in the way of the chance of a juicy story though will it? 

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Gee69

Gee69Posted on12:42 pm - Sep 20, 2016


With regard to the chat about wee Barry being the next St. Mirren Manager…
As a Dumbarton supporter, please can I propose, second and vote with both hands in favour of this.

There can’t be a better appointment.21

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shug

shugPosted on1:07 pm - Sep 20, 2016


GOOSYGOOSYSEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 11:03

Betfair is an online betting exchange where basically nameless punters willing to act as a bookie for one bet on one event post their odds online for other nameless punters to bet againstThe system requires both parties to open an account with Betfair who take a small percentage of the stake as commission
This is correct I use it all the time.

Most likely Barton has disclosed certain bets were made and this information got into the public domain

Not 100% sure if he did or didn’t it was the term that was used as well,betfair was mentioned but then it was said a high street bookie and I would bet they are talking about paddy power as I’m sure they merged with betfair in the early part of this year February I think.

Just done a quick search and we get Paddy Power Betfair plc after merger.

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shug

shugPosted on1:15 pm - Sep 20, 2016


Anyway if he used betfair then it won’t matter a jot if he said anything to anyone it will be almost impossible to prove that it was him who actually made the bet he just has to say he let a mate use his account and that’s all she wrote.

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aclydefanPosted on1:32 pm - Sep 20, 2016


“With regard to the chat about wee Barry being the next St. Mirren Manager…As a Dumbarton supporter, please can I propose, second and vote with both hands in favour of this.”
As a Clyde fan, I am behind this proposal also.

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TheClumpanyPosted on2:21 pm - Sep 20, 2016


TINCKSSEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 11:50am
>>>>
Many thanks for the kind words. The Sevco/Barton shambles is truly glorious! And the media efforts to hound him out are truly jaw-dropping. Anyone would think that press pack are simply agents of the Ibrox PR operation…

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TaysiderPosted on2:41 pm - Sep 20, 2016


I’m usually in lurker mode these days but I’m puzzled by this Barton story. 
If I was working for any self respecting media organisation, especially one allegedly national and objective, then I would be wondering why has this story appeared in the newspapers now, who is responsible for it being leaked and what is their objective in doing so? 
I’d also observe that based on recent precedents (see examples in BBC article, link) Barton should surely be expecting, IF guilty, somewhere in the region of a six match ban, three or four of which would be suspended.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37416523
Instead Radio Shortbread, based on the postings here, is busy already deciding the fate of the guilty (allegedly) one. I write based on postings here as I stopped listening a while back. Maybe one or two others have done the same.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on3:06 pm - Sep 20, 2016


Fiasco after fiasco.  Court case after court case.  Inflammatory club statements after inflammatory statements.  Sectarian bile on a game by game basis (encouraged and defended by the directors).   Boycott after boycott.   Illegal betting after illegal betting.    Scandal after scandal.   Financial irregularity after financial irregularity.   Theft after theft.   Cheat after cheat.   Lie after lie.
Disrepute charges?…Hell No !…They are all fit and proper dontcha know !  
    It’s a fact that they wouldn’t be getting away with it, if there was a governing body prepared to put an end to it.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:24 pm - Sep 20, 2016


TAYRED
SEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 08:40 
Another nugget from Bartons interview 
“…I’m trying to help people get to a higher level. They think me helping is me trying to say: ‘You’re not good enough.’ It’s difficult.”…
==============================
I do apologise: I just didn’t appreciate Barton’s role as a ‘Missionary’ to Scottish football ?!  15 

As above, I can’t help feeling a wee bit of sympathy for Barton now.
It looks like the knives are definitely out:  stack everything up against him and have the bears foaming at the mouth – and that should help with TRFC’s negotiations to send Barton on his way for the lowest cost ?

But the SMSM must be delighted: scandal and controversy about someone TRFC doesn’t seem to like – and for an added bonus they even managed to drag Celtic into it with Lawwell’s comments.  

And another useful squirrel to distract anyone from asking when the TRFC ‘warchest’ will only contain worthless IOU’s…

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on3:38 pm - Sep 20, 2016


A wee thought on the Barton fun and games.

If TRFC successfully dump the tramp, without compensation, they will have to prepare for a loud-mouthed, media darling bad boy, with no confidentiality clause to enforce his silence, venting his spleen. He probably has no inside information to divulge of a financial nature, but he does have a large social media following, and the phone number of a number of hacks who would be happy to publish the thoughts of a high profile English footballer, who now has a personal grudge over TRFC, as opposed to the natural ‘dislike’ of most Celtic fans. Perhaps now the message that has not been presented down south (through lack of interest and favours to media mates in Scotland) will get an airing. His own take on events, possibly agreeing with many that TRFC want rid of him because they can’t afford him, will be interesting!

There might yet be a price to pay for the extra ST sales this ‘marquee’ signing brought!

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:03 pm - Sep 20, 2016


ALLYJAMBO
SEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 15:38 
A wee thought on the Barton fun and games.

There might yet be a price to pay for the extra ST sales this ‘marquee’ signing brought!
============================
Mibbees Lawwell actually slipped Barton a few quid, told him to sign for TRFC – and get the inside scoop and splash it all in the media ? And whilst he’s at it, have a pop at the SFA and SPFL over their incompetence/corruption wrt all things TRFC.  
The Barton betting inquiry and Black’s previous ‘slap on the wrist’ should be useful.

Wishful thinking, but it always seemed that some ‘outside’ character would finally blow the lid.
Recently, we thought/hoped that was Ashley and his assorted court cases.
Now, it could be the bold Joey Barton ?
But, his silence might be his leverage to get a decent payoff from TRFC ?

Got to say – football aside – it’s never boring at Ibrox !  14

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tony

tonyPosted on5:14 pm - Sep 20, 2016


PADDY MALARKEY
if memory serves me correct ian black got a 3 match ban,though he did bet against his own club,so going on that scale barton gets another week in the hoose on full pay.his lawyer must be laughing just now

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goosygoosyPosted on5:35 pm - Sep 20, 2016


History, Neighbours And Made Up News
DR 20 Sept 2016
 Joey Barton could face another suspension after it emerged he is under investigation for betting on a Celtic match.
The controversial Rangers star was barred from the club’s training ground for three weeks yesterday after an explosive row with manager Mark Warburton in the wake of last weekend’s defeat to their Old Firm rivals.
And he is now being probed by the Gambling Commission for betting on Celtic to suffer a heavy defeat to Barcelona in the Parkhead outfit’s following match.
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Being probed by the Gambling Commission???
I hope the DR can back up that statement
Otherwise Joey Barton has a cast iron case to sue them for libel

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tony

tonyPosted on6:03 pm - Sep 20, 2016


GOOSYGOOSY
why i said his lawyer must be laughing,they  are laying themselves wide open by blindness for a newly formed club

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upthehoopsPosted on6:19 pm - Sep 20, 2016


ALLYJAMBOSEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 15:38  
A wee thought on the Barton fun and games.
If TRFC successfully dump the tramp, without compensation, they will have to prepare for a loud-mouthed, media darling bad boy, with no confidentiality clause to enforce his silence, venting his spleen.

==============================

I have been thinking along the same lines.  Some kind of acceptable pay off will be a priority for them I’d imagine. 

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easyJamboPosted on7:05 pm - Sep 20, 2016


There are three trades in RIFC shares on the JP Jenkins share exchange site today.  It looks like two sales of 366K each and one purchase of 732K all at 27.5p a share amounting to a deal worth just over £200K.

I don’t know who the buyer is (or indeed the seller) e.g. Club1972 or maybe even Brian Kennedy!  Either way it is a relatively small deal involving 0.9% of the shares issued.

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Big PinkPosted on7:45 pm - Sep 20, 2016


Taysider,

Like you, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the betting story broke when it did. Strong whiff of Eau de Level5 in the air.

Actually, I would go even further. The latest postulation from Michael Stewart and other that perhaps Barton was not signed by Warburton puts the manager’s absence at the Barton signing –  and the subsequent five week long radio silence into some perspective.

Was the dressing room bust-up any different from those that go on routinely in football?

But did it by – happy synchronicity – give Warburton an excuse to jettison Joey – and persuade the board that a mistake had been made?

If so, was Jim Traynor mobilised to put his special ‘truth-telling’ skills into action, to sell a ‘Morally Bankrupt Dog Bites Innocent Man’ story to the crayon Jocks – now that the ST money is safely in the bank?

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goosygoosyPosted on7:45 pm - Sep 20, 2016


Gambling Commission WebsiteSports Betting Intelligence Unit (SBIU)Why do we need the SBIU? The SBIU is a unit within the Gambling Commission which deals with reports of betting-related corruption. It was set up as part of the recommendations in the 2010 Report of the Sports Betting Integrity Panel (commonly known as The Parry Report). The past few years has seen a global increase in reports of betting integrity issues, particularly in sport, which have been well documented in the media. While evidence of corrupt betting integrity in the UK has so far been limited to what appear to be isolated incidents, we cannot afford to be complacent. 
Consumers must have confidence and belief that when they place bets with UK licensed operators they are doing so on markets that are fair and free from betting related corruption.
Central to this is collaborative working across the industry to understand the potential threats and help protect the integrity of sport and betting. The SBIU contributes to this collaboration.
What does the SBIU do?The SBIU collects information and develops intelligence about potentially corrupt betting activity involving sport. Members of the SBIU receive information from a number sources which includes (but is not limited to) alerts from operators about suspicious activity on betting markets, concerns from sports governing bodies or tip offs through our confidential intelligence line.
The SBIU focus is on potentially criminal activity that has at least one of the following elements:
·         it relates to an event in Great Britain
·         it involves parties (athletes, officials, participants, and so on) based within Great Britain
·         betting has occurred with a Gambling Commission licensed operator.
The intelligence that the SBIU gathers informs our decision making process. The SBIU will share, where appropriate, specific intelligence or information with other partners (for example, betting operators, sports governing bodies, overseas regulators, and so on) both nationally and internationally.
In some cases this information may then be used by these bodies in their investigations  – for example a sports governing body investigating a breach of their sports rules or code.
Our intention is that the SBIU will help bring together the intelligence efforts of partners and play its part in protecting sport from corruption.
Occasionally offences of cheating (as defined under the Gambling Act 2005) will be investigated by the Commission’s Enforcement team.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
 
There`s nothing in the above which justifies the SFA requesting  the Gambling Commission to investigate an alleged bet by Joey Barton on Barcelona beating Celtic by more than 3 goals
Nor is there an SFA statement on the matter
The source is an unnamed person at the Press Association who “understands” that the SFA and the Gambling
Commission are conducting a joint investigation into Joey Barton
All the other MSM stories can be traced back to the PA
 
It stinks
 
The GC responsibility is investigating corruption in sport. They would never  act as a leg man for governing bodies investigating a player unless there was a strong whiff of corruption
So the inference is that the SFA are alleging that Barton may have been involved in corrupt  betting activity which includes the Barcelona bet
 
Either way
 
For the Gambling Commission to launch an investigation within a week of the bet being made and at the same time permit the SFA to brief the Press Association  that they were doing so  seems rather odd to say the least
 
More likely
 
1.     Level 5 briefed the Press Association
2.     The Gambling Commission have neither been approached nor been involved in any corruption investigation
 
3.     Barton will be fired in 3 weeks time and the investigation that never was will be dead
I

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on7:58 pm - Sep 20, 2016


Just an observation.

There has been recent chat again about ‘what team’ played Brechin in 2012.
I tried then to get sight of the teamsheet for this game from both Brechin and the SPL: no responses received of course.

The teamsheet for tonight’s TRFC v.QoS game is linked below.
It is headed: “The Rangers Football Club Founded 1872”, which is obviously, factually incorrect.
[Unsure whether this is the ‘official’ teamsheet though.]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKllCqOAlJA/

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on8:01 pm - Sep 20, 2016


goosygoosySeptember 20, 2016 at 19:45
I agree entirely. Barton could no more influence the outcome of the Barca game than I could. The Gambling Commission may well have received a Level5 inspired “complaint” regarding Barton, but it will be of no interest whatsoever to them.
Of course any football related betting by anyone involved in Scottish football is against SFA rules, that is a totally separate matter.
Barton is clearly being stitched up  here. He really needs access to Super Ally’s list of hundreds of rule breakers. That should keep the Compliance Officer busy for a while.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on8:07 pm - Sep 20, 2016


StevieBCSeptember 20, 2016 at 19:58
====================

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2180643/Brechin-1-Rangers-2.html
Here’s a link to a match report of the Brechin game. “The Rangers” team-
Rangers: Alexander, Goian, Bocanegra, Broadfoot, Wallace, McKay (Naismith 96), Black, Hutton, Macleod, Little (Crawford 111), McCulloch.
Subs Not Used: Gallacher,Cole.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on8:13 pm - Sep 20, 2016


NEEPHEID
SEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 20:07 
StevieBCSeptember 20, 2016 at 19:58
====================
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2180643/Brechin-1-Rangers-2.htmlHere’s a link to a match report of the Brechin game. “The Rangers” team-Rangers: Alexander, Goian, Bocanegra, Broadfoot, Wallace, McKay (Naismith 96), Black, Hutton, Macleod, Little (Crawford 111), McCulloch.Subs Not Used: Gallacher,Cole.
====================

Thanks for that NH, but I wanted sight of the actual ‘team name’ – as entered on the TRFC teamsheet.

We know that a club can get into serious trouble if it submits a false or incorrect teamsheet…normally. 

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on8:37 pm - Sep 20, 2016


STEVIEBCSEPTEMBER 20, 2016 at 20:13
Thanks for that NH, but I wanted sight of the actual ‘team name’ – as entered on the TRFC teamsheet.
We know that a club can get into serious trouble if it submits a false or incorrect teamsheet…normally. 
—————————–
Good question.
And who would have seen this team sheet?
And would it be filed somewhere? And who could access it, even for an archive perspective.

And would Brechin have a case if any, if the wrong team was falsely or incorrectly put on that team sheet

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Big PinkPosted on9:35 pm - Sep 20, 2016


Got to give a plug to PurpleTV’s Jimmy Johnstone bio, which is on BBC Alba next Friday (30th).

We were invited to a preview showing in Glasgow last night. It was a very moving experience, and although it was a special occasion for Celtic fans, the film itself will appeal to everyone; Celtic fan or not, football fan or not.

On one level it is a heart-rending tale of Johnstone’s flawed genius, but really it is the story of a family caught in the middle of the turmoil surrounding personality.

Jimmy’s wife Aggie, who steered her family through those stormy seas, is undoubtedly the chief – and most important – contributor to the film. Consequently it becomes more about celebrating the human aspect of the story than football triumph.

Agnes Johnstone in fact is the antithesis of Bill Shankly: for her, football is not really that important; family is.

Purple TV have previously produced some great football documentaries – on Fergie’s Aberdeen, Jim Baxter, Jock Stein, and Hibs’ Famous Five. Their celebration of the sociological impact the game has had in our country is very much in keeping with that of SFM. I would recommend all of them to football fans.

Really, I can’t imagine anyone here who will not be profoundly affected by this film. Please watch it.

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Bill1903

Bill1903Posted on10:16 pm - Sep 20, 2016


That’s the first semifinal of the Betfred cup sorted
Rangers will play Greenock Morton
Celtic or Alloa will play Aberdeen or St Johnstone in the other semi final

^
Probaby 

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wottpiPosted on10:47 pm - Sep 20, 2016


I note the game report says  true blue Andy Halliday was given the captain’s arm band tonight.
Given the rumours re what went on at the Barton bust up Warburton has made a clear statement and I”d go along with Big Pink that Joey’s signing may not have been his idea and he may be more than happy to get rid.

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Ex LudoPosted on12:42 am - Sep 21, 2016


 

 
Anyone care to wager (bet) how long it will be before Mr Halliday is touted for a Scotland cap? Anyone? … What about you Joseph, will you take it on?

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upthehoopsPosted on7:16 am - Sep 21, 2016


I just read a very interesting article online from the Herald, where an employment law expert outlined the minefield Rangers would be entering if they decide to simply sack Barton with no pay off.  I had to read part of it twice to make sure one of the suggested cases Barton might be able to bring against the club had actually been written. 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14754264.Rangers_need_to_cut_a_deal_with_Joey_Barton_to_avoid_messy_litigation__warns_employment_law_specialist__/?ref=twtrec

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on8:37 am - Sep 21, 2016


StevieBCSeptember 20, 2016 at 20:13       Thanks for that NH, but I wanted sight of the actual ‘team name’ – as entered on the TRFC teamsheet.
We know that a club can get into serious trouble if it submits a false or incorrect teamsheet…normally. 
===============
Sorry, I don’t know anything about the “teamsheet” process. However I would guess the process is the same for any game played under SFA jurisdiction, senior, junior, highland or even top amateur level. Somebody on here must know, surely?
I note that a player injured himself in the warm-up for the game at Ibrox last night, and replaced. Presumably the team sheet had to be rapidly amended before kick-off?

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on8:43 am - Sep 21, 2016


With regards to the trading in Rangers shares, if the buyer is Club 1872 then i’d have thought they would have to announce the purchase to members. Although given the cast of characters involved there, it wouldn’t be a surprise if they ignored the members rights.

i would have thought anyone outside of Club 1872 who might be considering signififcant involvement, would want to invest in new shares rather than buy out existing shareholders.

Despite what King hs drip fed into the media, it isn’t necessary to have a listing to issue new shares. However given King & Co have equity control just now , it would suit them better to have the added lever of owning the debt . 

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on11:20 am - Sep 21, 2016


NEEPHEID

SEPTEMBER 21, 2016 at 08:37     

StevieBCSeptember 20, 2016 at 20:13      

Thanks for that NH, but I wanted sight of the actual ‘team name’ – as entered on the TRFC teamsheet.

We know that a club can get into serious trouble if it submits a false or incorrect teamsheet…normally. 
===============

Sorry, I don’t know anything about the “teamsheet” process. However I would guess the process is the same for any game played under SFA jurisdiction, senior, junior, highland or even top amateur level. Somebody on here must know, surely?I note that a player injured himself in the warm-up for the game at Ibrox last night, and replaced. Presumably the team sheet had to be rapidly amended before kick-off?
—————————————————

The SPFL teamsheet process in on P.51 & P.52 of their rules: 

http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1375800603.pdf

List of Players
G16 An authorised representative of each Club participating in a League Match and in aPlay-Off Match, must provide a written list of the names of the Players taking partin such Match for that Club, including the name(s) of the Club’s nominatedsubstitute(s), to the Referee, not less than one hour before the scheduled kick-offtime. Clubs shall be entitled to list up to 18 such Players. The list shall in all casesindicate the full names of the listed Players, identify the one goalkeeper who shalltake part in the starting 11, identify at least one further Player as the designatedsubstitute goalkeeper and shall indicate the colour of the goalkeeper’s andsubstitute goalkeeper’s shirts together with the colour of shirts proposed to beworn by outfield Players for the Club in the relevant match..

G17 If any nominated player or substitute sustains an injury after the submission of the written lists to the Referee and before kick-off, he may be replaced provided thatthe Referee and opposing Club are informed immediately.

G18 Any Club failing to carry out the provisions of Rule G16 at a League Match or PlayOffMatch will be fined the sums of £250 for the first offence, £500 for the secondoffence, £1,000 for the third offence and for any subsequent offence shall be dealtwith in accordance with the provisions of Section J of these Rules. For theavoidance of doubt, the amount of any fine imposed in accordance with this RuleG18 for a first, second or third offence shall be capable of appeal to the JudicialPanel in terms of Section J of these Rules.

These rules seem to apply to the BetFred Cup as well, although the SPFL website doesn’t explicitly state that.

I can’t find an image of an SPFL team-line, but it seems that it’s a hand-written pro-forma. There’s a requirement for the referee to submit teamlines to the SFA post-match.

Here’s a link to what purports to be TRFC’s teamsheet for the 2016 SC Final (SFA auspices, of course!).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scottish-Cup-Final-2016-OFFICIAL-Rangers-HANDWRITTEN-Team-Sheet-/322265646395?hash=item4b0887853b%3Ag%3A9I4AAOSwJhNXUCz5

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DunderheidPosted on11:42 am - Sep 21, 2016


I wonder if Joey Barton is a member of PFA Scotland and might soon be turning to Fraser Wishart for some support or advice?

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AmFearLiathMòr

AmFearLiathMòrPosted on12:56 pm - Sep 21, 2016


aclydefanSeptember 20, 2016 at 13:32 
“With regard to the chat about wee Barry being the next St. Mirren Manager…As a Dumbarton supporter, please can I propose, second and vote with both hands in favour of this.”As a Clyde fan, I am behind this proposal also.

I’m in 2 minds. I don’t think Bazza is a good coach/manager.  I believe he was appointed by a starstruck chairman, and we could almost certainly have done better if we had gone for someone like Darren Young or Alan Moore.  However…..

 It reminds me of Terry Butcher and his time at Inverness.  He used to say that they couldn’t really match the money on offer at other clubs, but Inverness had it’s geographical location as a selling point.  He would take the players out into the mountains round about and offer them a lifestyle more than a monetary package.  Well, Ferguson is our Ben Wyvis and Glen Affric!
Having his name attracts a better standard of player than we would normally get otherwise.  I can’t imagine someone like Dylan Easton would have signed for us (however complimentary he was about the fans after last season’s play-off semi) if it wasn’t for the fact that he got to work with Bazza. I suppose it’s a question of whether having a half-way decent manager would compensate for the loss of standard of player?

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on1:09 pm - Sep 21, 2016


  In the noise surrounding the outcry over inappropriate behaviour at the Glasgow Derby, I posted that Celtic FC, AND Sevco, should be given time to see what action they would take, noting that CFC have previous good form on identifying perps of unacceptable behaviour.  

http://stv.tv/news/west-central/1367679-fan-arrested-over-hanging-blow-up-dolls-at-old-firm-match/

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tayred

tayredPosted on3:17 pm - Sep 21, 2016


Good to hear they making progress, but its criminal that Police Scotland even have to spend time and money hunting down these idiots. 

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:03 pm - Sep 21, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIALSEPTEMBER 21, 2016 at 13:09       12 Votes 
  In the noise surrounding the outcry over inappropriate behaviour at the Glasgow Derby, I posted that Celtic FC, AND Sevco, should be given time to see what action they would take, noting that CFC have previous good form on identifying perps of unacceptable behaviour.  
http://stv.tv/news/west-central/1367679-fan-arrested-over-hanging-blow-up-dolls-at-old-firm-match/
———————————-
Any news from ibrox or Easter road about the action they have taken over inappropriate behaviour at the scottish cup final?
Or are they waiting until their cases are heard on Oct 4th and 5th then they will take swift action themselves?
—————————————————–
Also ….CFC have previous good form on identifying perps of unacceptable behaviour.
have they identified anyone yet who smashed up the toilets?
Ps.. is joey Barton on paid leave or are the ibrox club saving up his un-paid wages to pay a possible £100,000 fine

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shug

shugPosted on7:03 pm - Sep 21, 2016


Please do not read the latest from the clumpany or if you do wear a nappy lol.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on7:30 pm - Sep 21, 2016


CLUSTER ONE
SEPTEMBER 21, 2016 at 18:03
…Ps.. is joey Barton on paid leave or are the ibrox club saving up his un-paid wages to pay a possible £100,000 fine
=======================
I asked the same yesterday.
Don’t know, but you would think that a contract offered to a 34 year old would be heavily weighted towards appearance money?
No games = not ‘much’ pay.

The other unknown factor is that Barton seems to be a ‘media darling’.

He could weigh up;
– taking a payoff with a gagging clause
or
– leave without a gagging clause, and sell his story to the highest bidder, do the radio shows, papers etc.
It would boost his media profile further, especially if that is the direction he wants to go after hanging up his boots ?

Either way, IMO, I think Barton will leave Ibrox shortly – but on his own terms.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on7:52 pm - Sep 21, 2016


Small rant if i may?
Alex Mcleish dosen’t  expect things to get any better for embattled  rangers boss Mark Warburton at Pittodrie on sunday.
Big eck knows as well as anyone what it’s like to walk in Warburtons Brown Brogues.
Did Robert Martin really write that in the sun today?
or am i in a parallel universe?

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on9:12 pm - Sep 21, 2016


CLUSTER ONESEPTEMBER 21, 2016 at 18:03
                  “Also ….CFC have previous good form on identifying perps of unacceptable behaviour.have they identified anyone yet who smashed up the toilets?Ps.. is joey Barton on paid leave or are the ibrox club saving up his un-paid wages to pay a possible £100,000 fine”
    ——————————————————————————————————————————-
 Cluster…
 The cup final?….I believe Sevco banned anybody lifted, kept their ST money, and also handed out a lifetime ban today following a conviction for an incident v Motherwell recently. ..So credit where it’s due   04
    As for CFC, I think CCTV is probably illegal in a public toilet, and an appeal has been made by plod for mobile footage.  
 I would put a portcullis on the toilets and drop it at the first sign of trouble. 15 
  The management reserve the right blah blah, …..and ban EVERYONE trapped inside.
    I also read,  but can’t confirm if it is the norm, or particular to Joey the Jumble-sale jigsaw’s contract, that the maximum permissible fine was two weeks. ?????. (Dunno if true) 

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easyJamboPosted on9:24 pm - Sep 21, 2016


StevieBC September 21, 2016 at 19:30
————————————-
Barton did a Q&A re his book with Times Sport this evening.

Times Sport ‏@TimesSport 1h1 hour ago
Barton: “Why Glasgow? I’m thinking that myself at this moment…” #BartonTimesPlus

Times SportVerified account ‏@TimesSport 55m55 minutes ago
Barton: “Will my [experience at Rangers] stand me in good stead for the rest of my life? Yes it will.” #BartonTimesPlus

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:00 pm - Sep 21, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIALSEPTEMBER 21, 2016 at 21:12
—————Thanks for reply

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on10:26 pm - Sep 21, 2016


EASYJAMBO
SEPTEMBER 21, 2016 at 21:24
…Barton: “Will my [experience at Rangers] stand me in good stead for the rest of my life? Yes it will.” #BartonTimesPlus
==========================
?
And separately, the Manager of Clyde is quoted on BBC as saying;
======
“…Rangers travel to face the Dons after a difficult start to the season, and Ferguson says it was not always an enjoyable experience at Pittodrie.

“It is a place you go to and you don’t feel very welcome,” said Ferguson.

“There is a nastiness about the fixture…”
======
At what point does the SPFL/SFA/Clyde Board tell Ferguson to refrain from commenting about another club’s fixtures ?

IMO, he is being irresponsible/disreputable [?] – for a few quid of course – re: stoking up ill feeling before this game

…and when it has got absolutely b*gger all to do with him !

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HighlanderPosted on8:07 am - Sep 22, 2016


Since SFM prides itself in asking the questions journalists won’t ask regarding all aspects of football governance, not just Rangers liquidation and the subsequent soap opera, I thought it was an opportune moment to mention the persistent problem of so-called diddy teams being on the receiving end of extremely dubious decisions when playing one of the supposed giants of our game.

It’s difficult to imagine that Alloa’s goalkeeper would have remained on the field last night if he’d performed precisely the same assault on a Celtic player as Craig Gordon did on an Alloa player, yet Gordon was only yellow carded.

I expect to receive a satisfactory explanation for this round about the same time as Scott Brown castigates Leigh Griffiths and Tom Rogic for ‘cheating’, as vociferously as he did recently with Hearts player Jamie Walker.

Just saying.

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