History, Neighbours and Made Up News


History, Neighbours and Made Up News

Or, a story of how and why Mr Lawwell consigned resolution 12 to the deepest grass;
by Finloch

“It’s about history and being neighbours”, young Elisabeth said to her mum.

And it has to be done for tomorrow, Elisabeth said.

“I’m supposed to ask in an in-person interview about what life was like where an older neighbour grew up and what was life like when the neighbour was my age.

It’s not my fault that we’re new here and haven’t spoken to our old, next door neighbour yet and don’t even know his name.

“I’ve an idea her mother said, why don’t you make it up.

Pretend you’re asking him questions and then write down the answers you think he’d give”.

“It’s supposed to be true”, Elisabeth said. “It’s for News”.

“They’ll never know”, her mother said. “Just make it up.

The real news is always made up anyway”.


publicLibraryI was lucky enough to catch Ali Smith at the Edinburgh Book Festival.

I was part of a very diverse audience and unusually for this kind of event nobody in the sold-out Charlotte Square tent had a Scooby about what she was going to share with us.

Most would have been expecting a reading or two from her recent short story collection, Public Library, about the cynical, thoughtless and almost silent and unpublicised demise of Libraries up and down our land.

Our libraries.

Our land.

Ali is always value for money though and was amazing, reading from her as yet unpublished “Autumn” book, the first she said of a four-book series.

As I listened to her, I was also thinking and juggling around at the back of my mind about what I was going to write for this blog, having been asked for my thoughts, as a non-involved, non-Celtic supporter, on how I see the Resolution 12 situation.


Well Ali’s words stung like a bee and proved quite inspirational. The wisdom and clarity in her new books is highly relevant to all of us who care about Scottish Football and Resolution 12 including Mr Lawwell, Mr Doncaster, Mr Regan, Mr Petrie and us too – the real stakeholders.


Ali also shared with us a Bernard Maclaverty insight from when he once visited a school as part of (I think) a Scottish creative writing initiative and in the course of his talk asked some youngsters,

“What is fiction” ?

Someone put their hand up and said “Please Sir, it’s made up truth”.


Near the end Ali also got to talking about post Brexit Britain and used the chaos to ask the bigger question.

“Why do we never seem to have real debates about anything and why in any “debate” we might see or read that there never seems to be room for to-ing and fro-ing on points because everyone seems to have already made their minds up and just wants to maintain their status quos, achieve their own personal agendas or to steamroller us all to their point of view”.


“People in power seem to be genuinely scared of honest debates”, she said.

She asked how without more real discussions and insightful and open minded debates can any of us (and the debaters themselves too) learn because without that we will just get more of what we’ve had.

And that’s not good enough.


So thanks Ali I’m going to combine these three things from your hour along with two personal career experiences and review Mr Lawwell and his company’s reaction to the bona fide Resolution 12 raised by some of his shareholders a few years ago.

(My career experiences were as the head of a small, and treated as unimportant, company that was part of a worldwide group of companies run (badly) out of the US; and my time as head of a trade association that had two very dominant and troublesome members).


My Five Insights to review Resolution 12 are.

  1. Some people think  “made up news is fine” and feed us all with it all the time.
  2. Don’t expect real discussions or debates about anything in your club. No two way dialogues, except from those about money once a year.
  3. “Made up Truths” become gospel not to be challenged.
  4. The people running the club know they are smarter and more important than any of their minority or remote stakeholders.
  5. All decisions that really matter in football or indeed in any business are pre-agreed and never discussed in the open.

So now to what I think of Resolution 12.

My starting point is to say this. It is wrong to see or to discuss Mr Lawwell and Resolution 12 as being about the awarding of a license – or the boardroom processes since The Requisitioners first raised it.

Sadly, I’d suggest Requisition 12 was history before it was even raised.

In the late Murray days at Ibrox and in the early Whyte ownership period there had been rumours, and I’m certain deep and meaningful business discussions between the heads of the SFA and SPL and their key committee members.

You can be sure that the SFA, SPL, Celtic and others were all watching the post Murray Rangers situation closely, and the new regime at Ibrox and related financial stuff would have been the talk of the exclusive football steamies.

Despite what some Celtic fans believe, the reality has always been that while Rangers may have dominated (just) all things SFA and SPL, nothing was ever done without the knowledge of and input from the green side of the Old Firm business model.

Sadly, I’d suggest Requisition 12 was history before it was even raised.

Scotland’s unique, idiosyncratic, religio-political old firm business model was not just about driving the individual Glasgow teams to their leviathan duopoly in Scottish football. We all knew (because we were told so) that it was also the commercial bedrock of the business that is Scottish Football.

And yes, for a while David Murray thought his club was bigger than the Old Firm, but he and his ego had moved on when all this stuff happened.

Put simply, Regan who was quite new, was convinced at the time – and still is absolutely certain – that the SFA and Scottish Football needed a dominant Celtic and Rangers, and he also personally needed and needs the support of their CEO’s.

Doncaster too was convinced that the SPL needed Celtic and Rangers arch rivalry with all it entails, delivering TV monies and maximizing his bonuses. He too also personally required and requires the support of the Old Firm CEO’s.

Lawwell the astute numbers man, under a constant watchful eye from Dublin, needed Rangers to ensure his business plan did not develop un-fillable black holes.

And yes, for a while David Murray thought his club was bigger than the Old Firm, but he and his ego had moved on when all this stuff happened.

Importantly, Peter was also one of a small influential football group who effectively controlled the actions of Regan and Doncaster. Nothing strategic would ever have been done by either of them without his involvement and input. That doesn’t mean he necessarily knew all the detail about  Craig’s UEFA license shenanigans but he’d have had his suspicions.

And you know something, – at a squeeze I think he and Desmond might have thought keeping a Rangers team alive (for its future dependable revenue streams) was maybe even worth one season’s lost Champions League status.

There is no doubt in my mind that in 2011 Peter and the Celtic Board were worried but supportive of and committed to keeping the Rangers company alive.

Looking back I don’t know when Lawwell and Desmond actually discovered de facto that Rangers should not have been awarded the license.

Was it before it was awarded?

Was it after by which time it was too late anyway?

Those would be two good questions to ask them.

I’d suggest that by the time they knew for sure it was too late, but I could be wrong.

Anyway history shows that pretty quickly after McCoist failed in Europe, Lawwell committed his club to the complex and complicated secret Five-Way Agreement and all it entailed.

Celtic were senior signed-up members of the attempt to help protect and leverage the future blue revenue streams into the SPL then the SPL 2 then the bottom level.

It was all about the blue pound.

It was all about the blue pound into the future.

It was all about the blue pound into the future being central in the business model at Celtic that needed (then and now) a blue pound generating Rangers.

We all know now that compromise was somehow reached ahead of the Brechin cup tie in the summer of 2012.

Many – in fact most of –  Scottish football fans were glad that football had once again broken out, having become fed up with all the politics, and were glad to return to talking about players and stuff.

Football gossip is after all more comfortable than finding out we’d all been cheated for years.

Not all fans were ready to “Move-on” however.

Some, like many of us on this site and others like it wanted to dig deeper and examine just what happened and who did what.

Some wanted Celtic as the most wronged club to do and say more about Sporting Integrity.

Some wanted to rub their old rivals into the dirt.

Some wanted a full and frank review because they believed that without Sporting Integrity we would make the same mistakes in the future.

I’d be one of these fans.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Celtic shareholders who pieced together the jigsaw that led to Resolution 12, correctly identified that their club were illegally denied a place in the Champions League and denied substantial revenues.

Fair play to them.

If  I was a Celtic shareholder I personally would have wanted to know why my board had not pursued these significant revenues that were due to my company.

It was and is a big deal.

No it was and is a huge deal.

It remains an open sore and everyone involved seems to have ducked any blame.

I applaud those Requisitioner Shareholders for how they have gone about the process, and I have a huge respect for everything they have done on behalf of Celtic and fans of all Scottish clubs.

However in my opinion it was always doomed to failure because of the simple fact that their own club, having been an integral part of the whole murky “Armageddon” process, had already moved on into the new world they had helped to forge, and did not and could not look back.

So Resolution 12 was treated politely but cleverly by the club in the finest traditions of Sir Humphrey.

They did not want to fight their shareholders corner then and I’d suggest still don’t – and wont.


So going back to my five points earlier.


  1. Mr Lawwell et al did not want to establish the real truth, which they already knew. Hey had already signed up to what had been reported, moved the club on and spent his personal bonuses along the way no doubt.
  2. Mr Lawwell et al did not want a real debate because he and his small team had already done what they believed at the time to be right for the club they were paid to manage.
    Nothing more to say.
    And yes he could mumble agreement that Sporting Integrity is important when cornered but between us chaps it wouldn’t ever have filled the yawning gaps in the stands at Celtic Park without a Rangers counterbalance.
  3. Rangers are now back and the Old Firm is once again dominating Scottish Football.
    The truth at Celtic Park is we need each other and season book sales and TV revenues are up proving my point all along.
  4. We tolerate the intellectual end of our support, just, but they are hard work and you’d think they own the club.
    We even quite enjoy some of their stuff sometimes as long as its not too political but  we have a business to run and quite frankly sometimes they just don’t get it. They should realise the SFA and the SPFL are there to do a job for us and we keep them on a short enough leash.
  5. We will always be grateful to Fergus for what he did. We benefited at the time from the fan’s money and now run a very successful shareholder liaison programme. Once a year we have an AGM and try to manage the reality of running a business while having to hear from people who would prefer us to regress to what we were in the 1880s. Shareholders are fine but this club is a business and must be run as such.


My Five Insights sum up the position and stance of the Celtic Board.

I don’t know what will happen to Resolution 12.

The club never wanted it because they are a business and see the world differently from the group of fans who see themselves as the Celtic soul.

I applaud these Celtic fans.

Celtic does not deserve you.

About the author

Finloch author

Finloch has been a member of SFM since it's inception. A Hearts fan, he also penned the blog, Look Back to Look Forward

1,353 Comments so far

SmugasPosted on2:41 pm - Sep 7, 2016

I’m sure I also recall at the time of that vote that there was a rumoured incursion by the smaller SPL (as was) clubs that they required the lower majority to see through.  It was never made entirely clear what that was (TV money maybe?) but I recall a vividly emotional Stewart Milne (in itself unusual) saying something to the cameras like “not agreeing to plan A (the restructure of voting rights) but not being particularly impressed by plan B either” or words to that effect.  Whilst it is patently wrong that effectively two remaining ‘big guns’ can block the wishes of the other 10 – just as it was before – equally the power of the majority shouldn’t be simply abused opportunistically for questionable end either.  Fine line I accept.  Put it this way if the Plan B was the all singing and dancing panacea to our games problems it obviously died a PR death soon afterwards.    

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Charlie_KellyPosted on3:02 pm - Sep 7, 2016

For what its worth I’ve never been a big fan of 1st in the league getting more TV money than 2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on…
I think Aberdeen were a bit daft and short-sighted to ensure the 10-2 voting spilt stayed in place just so they could get a bit more TV money for 2-3 years.
The clubs that feature more on TV should get a bit more as they are the ones having their KO times moved and fans inconvenienced etc.. But I really don’t agree with 1st place getting more money than 2nd and so on.
The common argument in favour of it always seems to be that you need to reward the team that wins the league But they already do get rewarded with a nice shinny trophy, a flag unfurling ceremony, bragging rights and a crack at the following years Champions league.
If the prize pool element of the TV money was split evenly 12 ways then it wouldn’t stop clubs trying to win the league or finish 2nd/3rd/4th to make Europe or finish 10th, 9th, 8th… to avoid relegation/play offs.
If it was up to me I’d split the TV money in half. The first half would be divvied up evenly amongst the 12 clubs regardless of where they finish in the table.
The other half would be paid out on a pro-rata basis based on how often clubs were on the TV.

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John ClarkPosted on3:56 pm - Sep 7, 2016

Charlie_KellySeptember 7, 2016 at 15:02
‘.For what its worth I’ve never been a big fan of 1st in the league getting more TV money than 2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on…’
My own perhaps naive and unsophisticated view is that there is need for greater emphasis on the fact that the ‘competition’ between football clubs is not genuine, market-place commercial competition,in which the absence of competitors is , broadly, desired by businesses in the same line of business!
I don’t think that the demise of say,Morrisons as a supermarket chain would too greatly upset the Sainsbury, Tesco, ASDA, Aldi, Lidl  chains.
But any one football ‘business’ NEEDS there to be other football businesses, otherwise there would be no business.
Now I am not suggesting that failing clubs should be subsidised ( or dead clubs ‘resurrected’!) or any such nonsense.
I simply advert to the fact that a bad mistake was made when the  principle that it takes two teams to make a football match was sort of abandoned, and was substituted by the ‘home team keeps its whole home gate receipts’ principle.
The ‘entertainment,’ the ‘spectacle’  is being provided, in however qualitatively different ways, by two teams, and, in my view, the away team should get a share of the gate money for providing the spectacle.
Not, perhaps, half the proceeds, but certainly some proportion, fairly agreed.
I’m not fiscally or market-trained to say what the proportion should be. But I do think there is a fairly basic point of principle involved, which needs revisiting.

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StevieBCPosted on3:58 pm - Sep 7, 2016

Extracted from DR / Darren Cooney article today;

“…So the Celtic v Rangers match receives £333,000 [of TV money] compared to Manchester United vManchester City ’s colossal £33m.
No one should be surprised by the huge disparity in revenue. But what makes it all the more galling is the fact the difference in audience isn’t nearly as great.
More than 500,000 people in the UK watched the Scottish Cup semi-final between the Glasgow giants last season while nearly two million tuned in for a Manchester derby in 2015…”
At first sight, this looks like a meaningful article about the poor SPFL TV deal.

…until you remember that ‘Stevensaph’ produced a detailed Euroleagues-wide TV money comparison – which clearly showed that the Scottish game was massively undersold to the TV companies.

And he produced that analysis about 3 years ago – if not longer ?

Not so much “made up news” as really, really old news – at least to the better informed Internet Bampots !  01

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wottpiPosted on5:38 pm - Sep 7, 2016

While not being bold enough to predict the outcome of any derby match,  I am wondering if T’Rangers receive a good howking at the weekend we might see the wheels coming of the journey and some repercussions with regard to the lack of openness and transparency displayed by those in the Blue Room?

Surely some major questions will be asked in such a circumstance.

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StevieBCPosted on5:50 pm - Sep 7, 2016

SEPTEMBER 7, 2016 at 17:38

I am wondering if T’Rangers receive a good howking at the weekend we might see the wheels coming of the journey and some repercussions with regard to the lack of openness and transparency displayed by those in the Blue Room?
Surely some major questions will be asked in such a circumstance.

Well if TRFC gets humped, or are even involved in controversy on or off the field…
we should know by now what is coming via the SMSM ?

It will not be transparency, honesty or self-reflection from either TRFC or the SPFL/SFA.

No, it will be fluffy squirrels let loose to distract the bears in particular.

I guess Level42 will already have their list of options prepared – and in no particular order;

– TRFC linked with a ‘big money signing’ planned for January
– a TRFC player linked with a ‘big money sale’ to an EPL club
– an eye-catching, ‘scandalous’ story directed at CFC
– mibbees some dodgy stories about goings on at Hampden
– Big Mike related distractions
– Dave King promising to deliver ‘the warchest’ for January 
– etc…

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Big PinkPosted on5:58 pm - Sep 7, 2016

SEPTEMBER 7, 2016 at 10:50 


“I think I have my answer. Up to you to decide for yourselves”

Oh come on!  I appreciate it was the wee small hours but you cannot leave it at that!!! 


I was referring to the conclusion I had already arrived at earlier in the comment 🙂

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sixtaesevenPosted on6:04 pm - Sep 7, 2016

My feeling is that if The Rangers suffer a big defeat on Saturday, no amount of media spin will paper over the cracks.
Rangers fans in general know their football.
They know that they are well short of expectations today.
A big defeat at the weekend will see a reaction (nearly said rebellion…) from the “real” fans of the club/company…Not Reagan’s “social unrest”, but genuine questions being asked of the board, the SFA, SPFL, …In short, things that should have been addressed 4 or 5 years ago.

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John ClarkPosted on6:41 pm - Sep 7, 2016

For the love of God, would you listen to the BBC Radio Scotland’s Rangers(IL) supporters’club!
Positively p.ssing themselves talking about the ‘OF’.
Given plenty of time at our expense to flog the Big Lie like seasoned liars.
May a bolt of lightning strike Pacific Quay and shoot up their jaxies! And now they’ve trotted out Elliot, although he’s talking about former times when there was an ‘OF’.

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SmugasPosted on7:14 pm - Sep 7, 2016


gobble gobble!

joking apart, I think your answer is hidden in the stockings comment and I’ve never been proud enough to hide my ignorance and say that I don’t understand it!  Apologies.  

I also don’t buy that the sectarian thing alone sells.  Not without the accompanying success.  An old firm Derby to decide 5th and 6th doesn’t have the same ring does it?  But is that what the diddy turkey farmers are scared of?

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on7:19 pm - Sep 7, 2016

Anybody else wish it was two o’clock on Saturday already  030911

It seems impossible to avoid the SMSM micturition-a-thon (and the cast of desperate former players employed to give their Lillian Gish some gravitas).

No wonder it’s called ‘Yellow Journalism’.

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SmugasPosted on7:22 pm - Sep 7, 2016

John Clark.

my understanding of the Plan B debate that I refer to at 14.41 is contained in your post of 15.56.  Regrettably I have no magical inside track to back that up of course.

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HighlanderPosted on7:59 pm - Sep 7, 2016

JOHN CLARK SEPTEMBER 7, 2016 at 18:41
For the love of God, would you listen to the BBC Radio Scotland’s Rangers(IL) supporters’club!

I wonder if they’ve read this BBC article


from earlier this evening which contains a rare commodity indeed – an element of truth – although as usual with such pieces, the anonymous author lets himself down by failing to ask any pertinent questions about “a club (not company) that entered administration and liquidation in 2012 before re-emerging in the bottom tier of Scottish football.”

These MSM admissions may only be baby steps in the grand scheme of things, but it’s welcome progress nonetheless.  

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StevieBCPosted on8:11 pm - Sep 7, 2016

SEPTEMBER 7, 2016 at 19:59
…I wonder if they’ve read this BBC article
‘Ally McCoist believes it will take Rangers another “two or three years” to become a dominant force in Scotland…
“As fanatical as [the bears] are in their support of the team, they are not the most patient and some of them perhaps are not the most realistic”…’

Well that’s interesting.
The ex-cheeky-chappie has popped up in the SMSM to try and manage down the TRFC fans’ expectations ?
Looks like Level42 have already started their damage limitation exercise?

Nice to see McCoist behaving in a responsible manner… 22

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oddjobPosted on8:49 pm - Sep 7, 2016

Jingsoe jimsie
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have already stopped reading other sites because of the sickening rubbish spouted by so many so called super stars.
Like Bill1903 earlier, I will not watch, nor listen or pay any attention to that game.
Neither will I acknowledge the other game .
Myself and my goodlady will instead , enjoy a few cold drinks on our patio.

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valentinesclownPosted on9:10 pm - Sep 7, 2016

Not buying it


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John ClarkPosted on9:46 pm - Sep 7, 2016

SmugasSeptember 7, 2016 at 19:22
‘John Clark.my understanding of the Plan B debate..’
For the last wee while,I have been trying to establish when it was decided that home clubs should keep the gate money.
I found myself in the Project Gutenberg page , and I was entertainingly diverted by what I was reading.

If anyone likes reading printed material about Scottish football of the late 19th/early 20th centuries, have a look at this link     http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28028/28028-h/28028-h.htm#VI_HOW_CLUBS_WERE_STARTED

The material contains an endorsement for ‘Herbuline’ by the (then) ‘trainer of the Rangers Football Club’, and some other little gems, not entirely  ‘Off Topic’.

And I’ve now forgotten what I was going to say to follow up on your post, smugas, except, maybe, that the plan B might well have been on the lines of a proposal to return to some agreement about sharing gate receipts for league matches on a more equitable basis.

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ChristyboyPosted on10:03 pm - Sep 7, 2016

Breaking News : Jim White spotted in Connemara with Sky Sports News Team. ???  Jackpot imminent ???

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jean7brodiePosted on10:45 pm - Sep 7, 2016

John ClarkSeptember 7, 2016 at 21:46
Thank God I’m not the only one who has ‘senior moments’05

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helpmaboabPosted on7:29 am - Sep 8, 2016

VALENTIESCLOWN Sept7th at 21:10

Not buying it
…………………….Me too. I’m a season ticket holder at Celtic Park but I won’t be there on Saturday. To acknowledge it is to give it legitimacy.

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FisianiPosted on8:32 am - Sep 8, 2016

When Sevco come to Celtic Park for the first time they should be welcomed. Their sectarian supporters should be shunned. Sadly the women’s refuges and the casualty departments are always filled to capacity when any version of a “rangers” lose to Celtic. They will be very busy Saturday night.

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BrianMPosted on9:01 am - Sep 8, 2016

I see the highest paid gardener in the land is making his long awaited media comeback with the pronouncement that his once over generous employer is back in business after “financial meltdown”.
Here’s me thinking the company/club were liquidated having cheated their fellow clubs and stiffing their trusting creditors along the way.
So they were never liquidated and have a new and trustworthy board at the helm.
Good on the MSM for reminding us that all those nasty headlines pictures of coffins, gravestones were not real.

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SmugasPosted on9:47 am - Sep 8, 2016

Fisiani @ 08.32

3rd and 4th sentences.  Really?  I’ll say no more.

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John ClarkPosted on9:48 am - Sep 8, 2016

BrianMSeptember 8, 2016 at 09:01
‘..I see the highest paid gardener in the land is making his long awaited media comeback with the pronouncement that his once over generous employer is back in business after “financial meltdown”.’

And the same gardener, speaking of the ‘saga’ generally, remarks:
“Would it make a good film?If it did, I think Jim Carrey would be the obvious choice to play my part. The Mask-I had a few of them on over the last four years”

Indeed you did, Ally, and we all saw one of them slip off in your wee dirty nasty little episode with Lennon!

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Pat ByrnePosted on10:09 am - Sep 8, 2016

Perfect Day

Just a perfect day
Problems all left alone
Weekenders on our own
It’s such fun
Just a perfect day
You made me forget myself
I thought I was someone else
Someone good

Oh, it’s such a perfect day
I’m glad I spent it with you
Oh, such a perfect day
You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on
You’re going to reap just what you sow
You’re going to reap just what you sow
You’re going to reap just what you sow
You’re going to reap just what you sow

The first time I heard this song was when I went to play the A side (Walk on the Wild Side) on an old Wurlitzer juke box in Co Donegal a few weeks after it was released.

I wondered if the B side was as good as the hit. Of course being about 15 or so, I had no idea what the true meaning of either song was about.Turned out the B side was every bit as good if not better and I often put my vinyl copy of Transformer on to marvel at the way Lou Reed used the words to describe how the seed of the poppy impacted his life.

The song remained a hidden gem until it was brought out many years later as a charity fund raiser and like me in my youth 99% of those that bought it remain blissfully ignorant to its deeper meaning.

I wish I could say the same about the SMSM, SPFL and the SFA. They are entirely aware of the drug induced fantasy world they paint for the gullible and like some addicted junkie that corrupt cabal crave every falsehood that emanates from their dealers at the atop the marble staircase.

They truly do live every day as a perfect one hanging on to the shirt tails begging for their daily hit, forgetting their true goal in life.

Alas, they ultimately will reap what they sow and the sooner that happens the sooner the game up here can then go about cleaning its system and see what the world looks like to those with a clear perspective. Then again it may be I’m just taking a Walk on the Wild Side.

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bfbpuzzledPosted on11:40 am - Sep 8, 2016

The old club died. Yet it is still the same club . All of the negative aspects have been concentrated to the point of self parody. 
The old firm is gone -we now have the same firm.
I do not say that it is the same club in the sense used by smsm but in the sense of there being a mutated hollow man ready to burst into flames at any time about the land. 
The hope is that when this combustion happens it burns only itself

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nawlitePosted on11:53 am - Sep 8, 2016

Excellent summary of the public attitudes to the fact of liquidation back in 2012. For anyone who likes to keep a list….


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John ClarkPosted on12:29 pm - Sep 8, 2016

The smaller UEFA clubs begin to fight back:

“UEFA under fire over changes to Champions League By Brian Homewood 7 minutes ago  By Brian Homewood
ZURICH (Reuters) – The recently-announced changes to the Champions League are detrimental to domestic football in Europe and will increase the gap between the wealthiest clubs and the rest, Europe’s domestic football leagues (EPFL) said on Thursday.
The EPFL, the umbrella grouping for 24 European domestic leagues, also called upon the next UEFA president to reconsider the changes which made fewer places available in the Champions League group stage to teams from smaller countries.
It was the first major criticism of the reforms of the lucrative competition, which were announced in Monaco in August after secretive negotiations between European football body UEFA and the clubs….”

See more at   https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/uefa-under-fire-over-changes-champions-league-095656550–sow.html

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goosygoosyPosted on12:33 pm - Sep 8, 2016

The Puzzle
I can understand why thousands of fans brought up on mostly quality football  would  try so hard to replicate the old atmosphere of sectarian singing when they attend a match
I cant figure out why they get enough satisfaction watching mince week in week out irrespective of how much offensive singing goes on
Which makes me wonder
Is this angry, sectarian culture more important than watching a quality team?
Because if it is
The lasting memoryof the recent Linfield match wasn`t the 7-0 result
It was the team being photographed with a local flute band
I wonder how many TRFC fans agree?

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John ClarkPosted on1:04 pm - Sep 8, 2016

nawliteSeptember 8, 2016 at 11:53
‘Excellent summary of the public attitudes to the fact of liquidation back in 2012. For anyone who likes to keep a list….’
Thanks for that link, nawlite.

And to think that ‘BBC’ men, paid for by us, and the ‘men’ of the SMSM, are bare-faced liars enough to trot out the Big Lie with monotonous stridency and insistence, and deny their own previous statements.

What utterly, utterly despicable people they are, to be sure, who make CW and CG look like honest men!
What corruption of mind there must be, what depth of malevolence, what disregard of any journalistic duty to inform and report accurately and truthfully!

Who in his right mind would put any faith or trust in such journalists? And who, other than like-minded people, would employ them?

God speed their redundancy packages, and the break-up of the BBC, if that’s what it takes to get rid of such a poisonous, unchecked  influence.

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Famous songPosted on1:07 pm - Sep 8, 2016

I dunno if this is in the other morning press, but McCoist is interviewed by the hapless Paul Forsyth in The Times today. Forsyth himself uses the words “near death experience” to describe what I, a mere subscriber paying his wages, thought was a “death experience”. And yet to challenge this thin tissue of lies is to be dismissed as an obsessive? McCoist’s actual quotes reveal him to be living in a fantasy world that would invite ridicule if he were a former Woolworth’s employee, but seem unexceptionable in the context of Scottish football in the 21st century. I’m binning my Times subscription, which is a shame, as I rather like the crossword.

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theredpillPosted on1:52 pm - Sep 8, 2016

May be of interest .

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Big PinkPosted on2:39 pm - Sep 8, 2016

John Clark

The EPFL website is very interesting – and apparently not wedded to the theme of topmost is not The Prime Directive;


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upthehoopsPosted on3:43 pm - Sep 8, 2016

The PuzzleI can understand why thousands of fans brought up on mostly quality football  would  try so hard to replicate the old atmosphere of sectarian singing when they attend a matchButI cant figure out why they get enough satisfaction watching mince week in week out irrespective of how much offensive singing goes onWhich makes me wonderIs this angry, sectarian culture more important than watching a quality team?Because if it isThe lasting memoryof the recent Linfield match wasn`t the 7-0 resultIt was the team being photographed with a local flute bandI wonder how many TRFC fans agree?


If it becomes apparent they are not going to be challenging for the league, and that the current board are unable to provide significant finance, I don’t believe hardline sectarianism will be enough to sustain the majority of the Ibrox support.  

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MercDocPosted on4:35 pm - Sep 8, 2016

I was reading the online Daily Record and came across the Walter Smith on Warbs.
Usual guff, don’t know why I read this merd but one comment stood out by Walter.
But this is the first time in the club’s history they are going back into the division having won promotion.”
Can somebody translate this please. A very odd thing to say. 

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on4:50 pm - Sep 8, 2016

Interesting article in the Guardian about Oliver Burke’s new team, RB Leipzig. Some good BTL comments, too.


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paddy malarkeyPosted on5:42 pm - Sep 8, 2016

I see the problem with SMSM as one where they have been invited/recruited to be part of the creation of the miracle/lie rather than report their observations – they are making the impossible possible in their eyes. They are part of the project.  The people they are selling the miracle/ lie to are grateful to them for lifting them from despair . The naysayers are curmudgeons .

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StevieBCPosted on5:58 pm - Sep 8, 2016

Extracted from ET article today / anonymous / my highlighting;

‘…Speaking at a media briefing in Glasgow, Chief Superintendent Brian McInulty said “…If anybody has any other intentions such as…engaging in any level of sectarianism…then they will be dealt with by the officers in attendance.
“We will have an absolutely robust policing approach but it doesn’t mean you’ll be arrested at the time necessarily.
“Don’t think that if you don’t get arrested at the time that you’re not going to be dealt with by the police. We will follow up and it may well mean that you are dealt with retrospectively…”

And yet, for non-Celtic v. TRFC games, the TRFC fans seem to be free to ‘engage in any level of sectarianism’ – without reproach from Police Scotland ?!

The TV companies apologise for offensive singing – but Police Scotland has selective hearing ?


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upthehoopsPosted on7:33 pm - Sep 8, 2016

Well, Neil Doncaster has a brass neck. 


Neil Doncaster says league echoes criticism of ensuring four spots to Europe’s top four leagues.
SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster has hit out at proposed changes to the Champions League, insisting UEFA risk turning the continent’s top club competition into “an NFL-style closed-shop”.
Last month, European football’s governing body announced a raft of alterations to the tournament from 2018 including automatic entry to the group stage to four sides from Europe’s top four leagues.
Celtic ensured their participation in this year’s group stage after victory over Hapoel Be’er Sheva. While UEFA have confirmed the champions path, where domestic champions avoid sides from the continent’s biggest leagues, has been preserved, Doncaster echoed concerns from the Association of European Professional Football Leagues (EPFL).
After a meeting in Amsterdam, which was attended by Doncaster, the group accused UEFA of breaching a memorandum of understanding over the proposed changes.
The SPFL supremo said: “Notwithstanding the welcome retention of a route to the Champions League for the SPFL’s Ladbrokes Premiership winners, we absolutely share the EPFL’s disappointment about the regressive and protectionist direction of travel for the world’s most prestigious club competition.
“There needs to be a far stronger balance between sporting merit and commercial pressures,  otherwise we risk an inexorable slide towards an NFL-style closed-shop system. We know that many of our counterparts in other countries share our concerns about the nature of the decision-making process and the lack of consultation with European leagues.
“UEFA has a duty to act on behalf of the entire game, not just a few, select clubs and leagues and it must take that duty far more seriously if it is not to risk presiding over a harmful fragmentation of the game.
“As we said recently, we will continue to be robust and forthright when required in fighting to protect the best interests of Scottish football on this issue, with today a strong demonstration that the majority of other European leagues share our view.”
The governing body’s changes to the competition rules are driven by discussions over the money brought in by the lucrative tournament and there are changes to how the cash will be distributed.
While the payouts are to be “increased significantly”, there will now be a larger emphasis on performance with a decrease in share in individual territories. Payouts to clubs will be based on a mixture of starting fee, performance in the competition, individual club co-efficient and market pool.

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StevieBCPosted on7:45 pm - Sep 8, 2016

SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 at 19:33 
Well, Neil Doncaster has a brass neck. 

There needs to be a far stronger balance between sporting merit and commercial pressures,

UEFA has a duty to act on behalf of the entire game, not just a few, select clubs…”

Yep, if further proof was needed: Doncaster is an absolute f4nny !!!!  
[Am I allowed to write that ?  16 ]

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upthehoopsPosted on7:50 pm - Sep 8, 2016

STEVIEBCSEPTEMBER 8, 2016 at 19:45  
Yep, if further proof was needed: Doncaster is an absolute f4nny !!!!  [Am I allowed to write that ?    ]


You just did 04

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jimboPosted on8:10 pm - Sep 8, 2016

In the run up to a Glasgow derby you couldn’t be blamed for thinking that these games are title deciders.  Every day for weeks now someone is sought out in the media to comment on “Will it be Celtic? will it be Rangers? (to win the title this season).?”

There are 456 fixtures in the league, all results affect the final standings come next May.  ALL, not three or four games.

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wee_alphaPosted on8:10 pm - Sep 8, 2016

STEVIEBCSEPTEMBER 8, 2016 at 19:45 
Yep, if further proof was needed: Doncaster is an absolute f4nny !!!!  [Am I allowed to write that ?    ]
Positively encouraged to, I’d say 14

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wee_alphaPosted on8:13 pm - Sep 8, 2016

JIMBOSEPTEMBER 8, 2016 at 20:10 
In the run up to a Glasgow derby you couldn’t be blamed for thinking that these games are title deciders.  Every day for weeks now someone is sought out in the media to comment on “Will it be Celtic? will it be Rangers? (to win the title this season).?”
There are 456 fixtures in the league, all results affect the final standings come next May.  ALL, not three or four games.
I didn’t realise that there were other teams in the league. Are you sure? I cant find any mention of them in the MSM 19

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PortbhoyPosted on9:01 pm - Sep 8, 2016

Re. the fact the TRFCL are a new club.
This should clear it up. … or is it just too simple?


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PortbhoyPosted on10:08 pm - Sep 8, 2016

Oops,  the the RFCL, …. just about right.  22

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ChristyboyPosted on10:51 pm - Sep 8, 2016

Immenent Breaking News is that Breaking News is Immenent from the Dynamic Duo on the Wild Atlantic Way. Only a 1000 sq miles to check and remain on course for mucho ???. Jim says roof fixed in no time ???

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John ClarkPosted on10:52 pm - Sep 8, 2016

StevieBCSeptember 8, 2016 at 17:58
‘……….“Don’t think that if you don’t get arrested at the time …”
As if! 
God be with the days of my boyhood, when it was great fun watching a terracing punch-up (between fans of the same club!) being broken up by a pincer movement by Glasgow’s finest.

Or a piss-in-the-beer-bottle ( pre-can days!) drunk, being none too gently wheeched away the second the bottle had left his hand on its way to the object of his displeasure on the far away pitch, by the not-less-than-five-feet-eleven boys in the diced-caps and quasi-tailored tunics of those days!
Instant arrest on the spot, arm up the back and hustled without ceremony around the track to the’ black Maria’ outside the ground.

Or is that a false memory?

Geez, jean7, am I beginning not only to forget reality, but create unreality? Am I an SMSM hack in disguise?19

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upthehoopsPosted on10:52 pm - Sep 8, 2016

Picked this up from another forum. A Celtic fan giving an excellent response to how the media are portraying this weekend’s game. 


Okay – I give up! I’ve been in denial.
I really have missed Rangers.
I’m really looking forward to the Old Firm game.
I really believe they are the same club.
I really believe it was the holding company that got liquidated.
I really believe they were relegated to the fourth division.
I really believe it was a punishment.
I really believe it was because of bigotry.
I really think it was a huge mistake to have them demoted.
I really think this was terrible for Scottish football and is the reason why the national team haven’t qualified for a tournament since 1998.
I really think Scottish football has been rubbish these past four years and not even worth watching.
I really think Celtic should hand back the titles won in the last four years as they are completely meaningless.
I really believe Rangers would have been neck and neck with us in 2014-15 when we finished 56 points ahead of Motherwell who beat them 6-1 after they finished third in the Championship.
I really believe that it was because we didn’t have Rangers in the league that we only beat Barcelona 2-1 in 2012-13.
I really believe that Rangers were given a three year ban from Europe for going into administration and that Hearts avoided that same ban because someone at UEFA slipped up.
I have no idea what Sevco is – other than maybe an anagram of coves.
I really don’t give a hoot about the Barcelona game or any of the other Champions League games.
I’d much rather have more games against Rangers instead.
Sorry – Old Firm games against Rangers.
I really believe that if we finish 20 points ahead of Rangers this season it will still have been a more competitive season than finishing 15 points ahead of Aberdeen last season – just because it’s Rangers.
I really think the two teams are evenly matched and they will be a close rival in the coming years.
I really don’t think Celtic has an identity of its own and only has any global recognition through being half of the Old Firm with Rangers.
I really think the whole £100m+ debt/EBT episode was nothing major and anyway it allowed Rangers to be competitive with Celtic which is the main thing.
So good to get that off my chest. Now I don’t need to be in denial anymore.

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wottpiPosted on11:22 pm - Sep 8, 2016

To be fair to Doncaster he is just doing his job in terms of trying to protect his members interests.

However the other view is that he would argue black was white if someone was paying him.
In the past I worked with people who argued a totally different stance from the one they took only weeks before when holding a different position within the organisation.
These people, to my mind, lacked any type of moral compass or professional integrity.
Oh and by the way, they were generally slimy bustards you wouldn’t share a pint with.

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Paulmac2Posted on12:00 am - Sep 9, 2016

I was listening to talksport this morning around 08.40am with Danny Kelly and Micky Quinn….when Danny introduced Jim White with his over the top very excited pretendy Kelvinside accent…which I was not expecting. I also didn’t realise Jim had been added to the daily radio station with his own 10am slot…

How and ever I digress…Danny was asking Jim what he had planned for his show at 10am…surprise surprise…his show was going to be discussing the 2 derby matches this weekend…(4 hours worth if you don’t mind) as he mentioned the up coming Celtic v Rangers game…Micky Quinn interrupted him to say…Celtic fans had been giving him stick….to which Danny Kelly jumped in and added… the club being liquidated and its not Rangers etc etc…well if it’s not Rangers then why are 70k going to watch it he puzzled…and that is just the ones who cannot get in he finished with…(queue laughter) at this point Jim White made quickly moved away from that dangerous discussion point and came out with this cracker…and I quote..

“Yes guys the fans can’t wait for this game…the Rangers fans are really looking forward to it to see how they fair against THE OLD FIRM”…..really….

Now I can understand the radio gig is a new one for him…as is the fixture this Saturday…and maybe he is so excited that in his best Kelvinside pretendy accent he completely forgot who was playing…what their name is…and in his panic just made a name up…but seriously…THE OLD FIRM v Rangers

So according to Jim White…this Saturday the game is THE OLD FIRM V Rangers….where do we start with this? Other than the fact he has achieved the perfect headline the SMSM have been chasing…to remove Celtic from the equation completely…its all about Rangers … 

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John ClarkPosted on12:03 am - Sep 9, 2016

PortbhoySeptember 8, 2016 at 21:01
‘Re. the fact the TRFCL are a new club.This should clear it up. … or is it just too simple?
https://i.imgflip.com/1a9i4q.jpg  ‘
In support of your view, I pray in evidence our dear Lord Hodge.
Here is the text of the liquidation order that consigned the Rangers of SDM as sold by that cheat to Craig Whyte :
(I don’t think I’ve broken any laws in bloody well typing this out, because I wasn’t able to copy and paste.But, apart from any obvious typos, this is a true copy. ‘P’ stands for ‘petition’)
“P 1134/12 Pet: RFC 2012 plc to wind upDWF Biggart Baillie
31 October 2012Act: S Wolffe,Q.C. et S.Ower
The Lord Ordinary,having heard counsel on the motion of the petitioners:1.dispenses with service and advertisement of this petition;2.orders, in terms of sections 122-124 of the Insolvency Act 1986 that RFC 2012 plc( formerly the Rangers Football Club limited) a company incorporated under the Companies Acts( with company number SC 004276) and with its registered office at Ibrox Stadium, Glasgow G51 2XD ( “the Company”) be wound up by the court;3.appoints James Bernard Stephen, Insolvency Practitioner, of BDO LLP,4 Atlantic Quay,70 York Street,Glasgow G2 8JX and Malcolm Cohen, Insolvency Practitioner,of BDO LLP, 8 Baker Street London W1M 1DA as the joint interim liquidators of the Company;4.declares in terms of Section 231(2) of the 1986 Act that any act required or authorised under any enactment to be done by the joint interim liquidators may be done by one or both of the persons for the time being holding the office of joint interim liquidator;5.appoints the joint interim liquidators to give notice of their appointment in terms of Rule 4.18 of the Insolvency(Scotland)Rules 1986;6.finds the expenses of this application to be expenses in th winding up of the Company;7.and decerns.
“ P Hodge”
Absolutely straightforward. Old 18 oatcake Rangers was liquidated.And old 18 oatcake was the Rangers feckin Football club, not some holding company.
And I wonder, now that I notice it, what item 1 means?  Could it mean that there was to be no publicity given to the fact that a petition to liquidate had been made? Surely not? Let’s assume it’s one of the arcane, legal expressions still in use, and not any kind of mechanism to keep things from the public.

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John ClarkPosted on12:36 am - Sep 9, 2016

Reference my post of a wee while ago, I tried to give a link to the Liquidation order. A link? looks like a whole anchor chain!
Sorry about that.
But you have my word: lord Hodge liquidated the Rangers of 18 seventy whatever ( 72, 73?)

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FinlochPosted on1:21 am - Sep 9, 2016

I don’t think Mr Doncaster said anything about what is happening  in Europe that didn’t get pre approved by Mr Lawwell
Puppet Neil is only a mouthpiece for his key members.

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tayredPosted on9:07 am - Sep 9, 2016

WOTTPISEPTEMBER 8, 2016 at 23:22
To be fair to Doncaster he is just doing his job in terms of trying to protect his members interests.

Jings – his member being TRFC I assume?

Thats the only member I’ve seen him protect. Naughty UEFA, imagine being so blind that you cannot see the pain being caused by repeatedly bending over to all those big members, imagine not being concerned about any of the needs of all those smaller members standing waving, desperately looking for some attention…..

Size shouldn’t matter, but we all know how important it is to narrow minded people like Doncaster and Regan and almost every football journalist today. Small members like Huntly, Montrose, Raith, Dunfermline, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc, etc, etc can yield every bit as much pleasure and excitement as those monsters the modern world has become unhealthily obsessed about.

Its somewhat ironic that we now have the biggest c@*k to have graced our game, releasing that kind of hypocritical guff, seemingly without any shame or understanding of how pitiful it makes him look.

Ok… I need a lie down…

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shugPosted on10:14 am - Sep 9, 2016

I see mr w is furious again boring has there ever been a time when he is not furious lol.
Have a wee keek at video celts .

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ChristyboyPosted on10:26 am - Sep 9, 2016

John. I’m getting an expired error on that link.

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John ClarkPosted on10:39 am - Sep 9, 2016

ChristyboySeptember 9, 2016 at 10:26
‘..John. I’m getting an expired error on that link’
Aye. I don’t know if that’s my incompetence or whether it’s a deliberate design feature to prevent copy and pasting!
You’d be better going in to the Companies House official site, look up the ‘filing history’ for rfc 2012, and you’ll get (on 05 N0vember 2012) an entry  ‘ Court Order notice of winding up’ with a link to a one page pdf file.
(If you’re not practised at using the CH site and get lost, let me know)

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valentinesclownPosted on11:34 am - Sep 9, 2016

Scotland’s shame
ffs this has got to stop.  What pressure is being put on the bbc and from who.
Can no one speak out and maintain the truth?

They were liquidated history tells us.

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valentinesclownPosted on2:25 pm - Sep 9, 2016

Latest from JJ possible Police wrong doings?  What ever next with this toxic club sorry company


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John ClarkPosted on3:40 pm - Sep 9, 2016

valentinesclownSeptember 9, 2016 at 11:34
‘..What pressure is being put on the bbc and from who.’
I, personally, have little doubt that the ‘pressure’ comes largely from sources internal to BBC Scotland, away above the level of  programme producers and presenters ( which latter, of course, roll over obediently rather than kick up a fuss when they are asked to propagate and insist on the Big Lie in spite of their own personal previous utterances in print acknowledging that RFC (IL) ceased to exist as a football club).
As your link to JJ shows, we have long suspected that there were/are many dubious connections between SDM’s RFC, the SFA, the Police- and  (can you imagine?) judicial tribunals and First Tier Tax tribunal folk, not to mention secret interventions by high level politicians!
The ‘saga’ of a hubristic club owner who resorted to monumental sports cheating ( and, possibly, tax cheating) has taught us , by their failure to investigate /readiness to misreport and/or their collusion in the cheating , whether before or after, to mistrust the SMSM even more than the Football Authorities.
Now, I would not wish to draw too close a parallel, but on reading an account of the Myall Massacre  [ http://myallcreekmassacre.org/index.php/massacre-story ]   and how a number of savage feckin murderers were acquitted of the most cold-blooded and heinous of crimes, I find myself thinking  very readily of the ‘saga’, when I reflect on  how easy it is for bad guys of influence (for example, bad guy newspaper proprietors, journalists, bent financial advisers, and polis and such like) to subvert truth and justice.

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StevieBCPosted on3:44 pm - Sep 9, 2016

FYI, article posted in the New York Times yesterday – with my highlighting.
In Glasgow, a Most Bitter Rivalry Takes Root Again

SEPT. 8, 2016

GLASGOW — The police and the courts were still dealing with the depressingly familiar aftermath of a meeting between Celtic and Rangers — identifying suspects, filing charges, hearing cases — as the finishing touches were being put on the 40-yard mural that now runs along one side of London Road.
The work of a collective of local graffiti artists, the mural covers a wall in the shadow of Celtic Park. Its iconography is beautifully rendered, if a little muddled: a lion and a buffalo, a fire-breathing dragon, two dinosaurs, Batman and the Joker.
The message it sends, by contrast, is perfectly clear. “Sectarianism divides,” it reads. “Fear, anger. They all fight, it’s not right; it’s your choice, it’s your voice. Respect each other’s view: the green and white, the white and blue.” In the middle sits a badge adorned with three words: “Rivals Not Enemies.”
When it was unveiled, two days after the two biggest teams in the city — and the country — had met in a bilious, spiteful Scottish Cup semifinal, it seemed like a slogan of forlorn hope. Of the 18 people arrested that day in April, half were charged with sectarian offenses or under Scotland’s Offensive Behavior at Football Act. Still, it seemed, Rangers and Celtic could not escape the poison of the past.
Many expect Saturday to be no different. The two teams have not met in the Scottish Premiership for four years, ever since years of financial mismanagement and misdeeds caught up with Rangers and led to their liquidation. The club was dissolved and forced to start again, in the country’s fourth tier.
Since then, Celtic and Rangers have encountered each other only twice: both in Scottish cup competitions, both on neutral territory. The city, then, is crackling with anticipation for the teams’ first league meeting at Celtic Park. As early as Tuesday, The Evening Times was devoting six pages to the game. A slew of former players, from both sides, have spent the week being wheeled out for sound bites.
With that excitement, though, comes trepidation. This is an enmity with roots that run far deeper than mere sport: Rangers and Celtic is not soccer, it is religion and politics and history. It is Protestant and Catholic, Unionist and Irish Nationalist, the Union Jack and the Tricolor: two sides of several unbridgeable divides.
There was a feeling, in 2012, that perhaps the two clubs might somehow come to realize they were locked, however unwillingly, in a mutually beneficial arrangement.
As Peter Lawwell, the Celtic chief executive, has admitted, Rangers’ demise has cost his club £40 million ($53 million) in lost revenue. Celtic, and Scottish football in general, were supposed to wither and die without one of the league’s twin titans. Stewart Regan, then in charge of the Scottish Football Association, even predicted “social unrest” if Rangers were not immediately readmitted to the top flight.
Such concerns do not seem to have permeated the fan base. “I didn’t miss them at all,” said Matt McGlone, editor of the Celtic fanzine Alternative View. “I understand there has to be competition, but it didn’t bother me.”
Across the world, Rangers and Celtic have always been known as the Old Firm. To many on the Celtic side, that label no longer applies. The Old Firm, they say, died when Rangers did, in 2012. “The game on Saturday,” as McGlone said, “is just the Glasgow derby.”
At the root of this debate is what happened to Rangers four years ago. When the old club was liquidated, overwhelmed by its debts and its then-owners accused of running an illegal tax avoidance scheme, its place in the Scottish league was taken by a new company, known then as Rangers Sevco.
On the blue side of the city, the old and the new are one and the same; they support a team, not a holding company. On the other side of the divide, the view is very different. McGlone simply said, “They are Sevco, no doubt about it.” Stephen Murray, a Celtic fan and author of “Ten Men Won the League,” said he believed that “you cannot cherry-pick what you get to keep.”
The Scottish Professional Football League’s line — voiced by Neil Doncaster, its chief executive last year — is that the matter was “put to bed” by a commission on Rangers’ fall. “The club continues, albeit owned by a new company,” he said.
Celtic fans contest that claim. UEFA and FIFA have, tangentially, been drawn into the fight, with their interventions cited by some on each side as victories. It has, in other words, become another unbridgeable divide.
It is this argument, over what precisely this team that looks like Rangers, plays in the same stadium as Rangers and calls itself Rangers actually is, that has been the “main source of heat” between the two clubs for the last four years, said Raymond Boyle, a professor of communications at Glasgow University.
“The league has been on hiatus,” he said. “Celtic has won the title virtually unchallenged. There has not been the normal stuff to get into around games, because they have not played each other, so the debate around what the club is has superseded everything else. For some, it is now the driver of the rivalry. If the idea of most arguments is to change someone’s mind, then this is a dialogue of the deaf. It’s sustained the rivalry, at the very least, if not made it worse.”
The Old Firm rivalry has always been a mixture of the poisonous and the petty, the menacing and the melodramatic.
The rivalry’s new, updated version is no different. If anything, because it is largely cast through social media, it has developed a particularly vindictive edge. Seventy-eight people, for example, complained to the Advertising Standards Authority last year about an advertisement for Rangers season tickets that described Ibrox Stadium as home to “Scotland’s most successful club.” Websites staffed by lawyers and accountants have pored over the various historic financial accusations against Rangers in minute, obsessive detail.
“Celtic supporters have had a lot of spare energy in the last four years,” said Chris Graham, a veteran of several Rangers fan groups. “The more active among them have directed that into things that are not really anything to do with Celtic, but are about hurting Rangers. That has become the outlet for the rivalry.”
If that sense of seeking what they perceive to be justice for Rangers’ offenses has provided a focus for Celtic supporters, Boyle suggested that their rivals had been “sustained” by the “deeply ironic” belief in their own victimhood.
“In a football sense, they had as big a punishment as they could have had,” he said. “But this idea they were wrongly or harshly punished, I do not see as being the case. That has become the narrative, though, a way of identifying themselves not by who they are but by who they are against.”
In both cases, supporters claim Scottish soccer’s establishment has been arrayed against them.
Fans of both sides have indulged in this endless game of claim and counterclaim for the last four years. If that is to be the root of the hostility in the New Firm, and the sectarian divide increasingly abandoned as a relic of the old, many would consider that progress.”

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tayredPosted on4:30 pm - Sep 9, 2016

That New York Times article is better than most that you would ever see printed in this country. But even then it falls into the same mistakes. Its all about Rangers and Celtic, apparently nobody else is involved. Its all about the great divide. Its not discussing the tax evasion and whatever that allowed one club to cheat its way to years of victories, its not about the rest of the teams in the Scottish league being fleeced out of millions of pounds, or the ambulance service, or the local newsagent and face painters, its not even about the shady goings on behind the scenes by the supposed authorities – those that should rule without fear or favour, its not about the complete subservience of the local media, but most importantly theres not even a mention of all those fans that paid their hard-earned cash into a so called sport that was in fact a complete and utter sham.

No its all about Celtic and Rangers, and its all about hate and religious bile. Yet this “biggest derby in the world” is something we are supposed be proud of. Makes me sick.

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StevieBCPosted on4:33 pm - Sep 9, 2016

“La Liga chief backs plans to launch breakaway competition from UEFA Champions League

China’s richest man is behind the company planning to launch a rival to Europe’s premier football competition and Spain are liking the idea.

The president of La Liga has backed plans to launch a rival to the Champions League.
Javier Tebas claims that there will be the opportunity for “greater revenue” for clubs under the plans for a breakaway competition.

Proposals have been mooted by the Dalian Wanda Group, who are owned by China’s richest man, Wang Jianlin, to create a tournament for Europe’s most prestigious clubs.

Wanda’s proposals include the scrapping of the Champions League and Europa League to create one larger tournament, but with fewer than 64 teams.

China have had an increased involvement in world football over the past couple of years, with numerous top division teams from Europe being taken over by Chinese consortiums.
There has also been a wealth of investment in the Chinese Super League , which has had a numerous of top world stars join their member clubs for mammoth fees.
It was sparked by President Xi Ping, who stated a desire to turn football-mad China into a “great sports nation” – and target World Cup victory in the future.”

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SmugasPosted on4:36 pm - Sep 9, 2016

Good article which only a fool would argue with.  So I will, obviously!
No, seriously, the only thing I would add to an otherwise refreshing piece is that I’m a little disappointed that it fails to highlight the debt failure.  Stephen Murray touches on it with his cherry picking comment but given that this is the first publication to bother to stipulate the difference between “revenue” and “profit” when referring to the impact of Rangers demise on Celtic’s finances, it is a little disappointing that they then don’t complete the circle and say “isn’t it a bit odd that a club would wish, in fact is absolutely desperate to say its the same but have absolutely no hesitation in distancing itself from the historic debt.” 
I’ve always felt that for the common man unaware of the facts and untroubled by any emotional attachment this was the key feature where the continuity myth fell down.  It had/has to fall down.  We know the commission laughably tried to say the debt and the historic success were unrelated.  They don’t know that.  They are left to make up their own minds.  So don’t hide the fact that there was a club, it had £50-160m of debt (appeal pending).  Now they claim there is still a club but miraculously it doesn’t have the debt.  Lets hear them explain that one away because “the commission said so”.  

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easyJamboPosted on5:44 pm - Sep 9, 2016

valentinesclown  September 9, 2016 at 14:25  
Latest from JJ possible Police wrong doings?  What ever next with this toxic club sorry company
I’m afraid that this story originates from 2013, so is not a new or current investigation. (JJ even admits this himself in a response to a comment).  I’m not sure what JJ is trying to achieve by highlighting it today.

Here is a link to the original article dated 8 September 2013

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helpmaboabPosted on5:51 pm - Sep 9, 2016

Just listened to BBC 5 Live. 10 minutes on the Manchester derby .”We’ll discuss the O F Derby in a minute”
Arguably the biggest game in Scotland this weekend. Discussion? 2 mins tops with Paddypower offering odds on whether Scott Brown or Joey Barton would get the red card. Then we get 5 or 6 mins on Burnley for Gods sake. Sheesh.

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Cluster OnePosted on6:39 pm - Sep 9, 2016

John ClarkSeptember 8, 2016 at 22:52 i 27 Votes
Instant arrest on the spot, arm up the back and hustled without ceremony around the track to the’ black Maria’ outside the ground.
Or is that a false memory?
That is not a false memory john.And the memory of the words ’ black Maria’ brought back so many memories of my childhood.
“Run!..it’s a ’ black Maria’06 as a dozen or so kids ran in every direction possible

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John ClarkPosted on6:46 pm - Sep 9, 2016

StevieBCSeptember 9, 2016 at 15:44
‘.. article posted in the New York Times yesterday .’
I read Rory Smith’s article, StevieBC, and thanks for the link.   I think he only moved over to the NYT in July to be their ‘Soccer’ man, so he has a fair enough background knowledge of the UK scene, and I’ve only got one or two quibbles about his piece.
I have more than a quibble about Professor Raymond Boyle’s utterances, and have told him so in the email I sent a little while ago.
This is what I wrote:
“Dear Professor Boyle,I refer to the statement attributed to you in the piece by Rory Smith in yesterday’s edition of the New York Times.
In the matter of the insistence of honest people on the truth of the fact that Rangers Football Club of 1873 ceased to exist as a football club with membership of a Scottish League and membership, on that account, of the Scottish Football Association, you are quoted as saying:”If the idea of most arguments is to change someone’s mind, then this is a dialogue of the deaf. It’s sustained the rivalry, at the very least, if not made it worse.”
Those of us who insist on the truth are not trying to change the minds of those who supported the now liquidated club. They can believe whatever nonsense they choose.
We merely wish the SFA and other football authorities to end the scandalous sporting lie that all that had happened was that ownership of Rangers Football Club (of 1873) had changed hands , from Craig Whyte to Charles Green.
As any kind of academic Professor, let alone a Professor of ‘Communications’ , you should be well able to rise above the low level of football hacks in the SMSM , and acknowledge the actual, documented, legal, commercial and sporting truth: RFC was liquidated, SevcoScotland was created as a new club, and as a new club was compelled to apply for membership of a league, and then of the SFA.These are incontrovertible facts about which there can be no two ‘opinions’.
Academics such as you are generally expected to relate to facts.
In my view, you chickened out of any kind of academic responsibility and weakened your personal academic standing by waffling on about there being a ‘debate’ about whether THE Rangers Football Club is a new club.
You had a duty , if you chose to speak at all, to speak the unvarnished truth.
By not so doing, you bring upon yourself and your Faculty something of the opprobrium heaped on the temporisers with the truth who write about football , as well as on those responsible for the ‘governance’ of the Sport of Football in Scotland.
Deep shame on you, and may your students be clever enough to ignore anything you have to ‘teach’ them relating to the primacy of honesty and integrity in communication.Yours sincerely,
JC   ”
So I now have communicated with two professors , one in Edinburgh, one in Glasgow, who are either appallingly misinformed, or , for all that they are eager to be involved in ‘sport’, have chosen to ignore the huge elephant in the room of Scottish Football and the SMSM.
I wouldn’t mind if there was the intellectual honesty to demonstrate why a club actually playing football is identical in every respect ( except, of course, liability for tax and other debt) with a club that legally exists, but only in the state of Liquidation! There are two clubs, not one. One 4 years old, the other dead, at the age of 140.
They simply cannot be the same.
And intellects which cannot see and acknowledge that are, in my opinion, being deliberately obtuse or otherwise badly motivated.

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goosygoosyPosted on6:52 pm - Sep 9, 2016

Has the BBC finalised its definition of what happened in 2012 ?
Radio Scotland 5.30 tonight
“Rangers financial collapse in 2012 lead to the club starting in the 3rd Division
No mention of Administration, Liquidation,Holding Company, Newco 
All airbrushed away

If this terminology is now BBC official policy we can look forward to this definition being used over and over again
Watch this space

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gunnerbPosted on9:01 pm - Sep 9, 2016

My daughter has asked if her man can come to watch ‘the game’ with me tomorrow. She is aware that I no longer subscribe to any premium sports channels and is also aware of my opinion in general regarding Scottish football. She is hoping that if her chap watches the game in my company it will somehow be less traumatising for him. He is of course a Rangers supporter. He has asked me in the past if I think he supports a new club and I have replied that what I think should have no currency or import with him and left it at that.
He has persisted to the point that I have eventually explained my position whilst reminding him that I am not trying to convert him to my way of thinking but equally he should not try and do so with me. In spite of the best efforts of news media and the shameful sports dept of the BBC in particular almost every football fan I speak to thinks the same as I. It is this desperate need by the media and supporters of rangers to have myself and other dissenters accept their version of the truth that is so galling.
It reminds me of joke by Dave Allen that went something along the lines of a Hindu appearing at the gates of heaven and being welcomed in by St Peter. Peter shows the Hindu around heaven ..”here is the protestant section and over there is the Moslem section ” .They walk past a high walled section and the Hindu asks what is behind the wall.

“Shush’’ says St Peter “that’s the Catholic section and they think they are the only ones in here”

Anyway for the sin above and countless others I will be watching and consoling my young friend tomorrow. I hope it passes off as peacefully as possible.

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bordersdonPosted on9:30 pm - Sep 9, 2016

Can somebody post Celtic’s programme welcoming SEVCO tomorrow? Thanks in anticipation.

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John ClarkPosted on1:47 am - Sep 10, 2016

StevieBCSeptember 9, 2016 at 16:33
‘…..”Proposals have been mooted by the Dalian Wanda Group, who are owned by China’s richest man, Wang Jianlin, to create a tournament for Europe’s most prestigious clubs.”..’
As is well known, the Chinese word   ‘Wang’ can be translated as ‘King’.

I suspect that reports that  Wang Jianlin is the richest man in China are likely to be more true than the reports about  our Wang Dave’s financial resources.

And I would imagine that if tongzhi* Wang says he will, he will  put his money where his mouth is.

Unlike tongzhi King!

China, it seems, is now in the mood and in the economic position to embark on the cultural colonisation of the Europe which so brutally ‘colonised’ and partitioned it.

It is now doing what the USA did: waging the equivalent of the ‘Americanisation’ offensive that the US has waged : successfully, to the point where every sodding nation now drinks cola and speaks English with that feckin stupid rising-to-a-question-mark-intonation when they make a statement, and all that ‘have a nice day’ crap.

They have learned the lesson that the Americans are only just learning: that football is the world sport, engaging the minds and hearts of Europe and South America and large chunks of Africa.

And they are getting in there, big time.

The US is beginning to realise that ‘Soccer’ is much more culturally important worldwide,  than  baseball, basketball,  American football and  ice-hockey.

Indeed, no less an organ than the New York Times has hired a Manchester-based soccer hack(Rory Smith) in order to keep its readership up to speed with the increasingly high-profile of ‘Soccer’.

Economic pre-eminence is one thing- and China is now second only to the US in that regard.

Cultural influence is much more subtle,less in-your-face, and, in the long term ( and China thinks long term) much more effective.

* tongzhi ( tong-jih) = comrade

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Corrupt officialPosted on2:24 am - Sep 10, 2016

  There are unashamedly loaded questions, and there is almost pathetic pleading, …..And what an expert retort. Quite masterful !
It’s a twitter link.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:44 am - Sep 10, 2016

Can somebody post Celtic’s programme welcoming SEVCO tomorrow? Thanks in anticipation.


I will be at the game BD, but I have not purchased a match programme in many a long year. The last time I bought one was at the UEFA Cup Final in Seville.  I have no doubt whatever ‘welcome’ is in today’s programme will find its way onto the web fairly quickly. Cameraphones and social media will see to that.  

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