A Guest Blog for TSFM by Auldheid
It has been some six months since we drew readers’ attention to documents that should have been provided by Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps in March 2012 to Harper MacLeod who acted on behalf of the then Scottish Premier League to investigate the use of side letters and employee benefit trust payments made by Rangers from the inception of the SPL in July 1998. You can read the previous blogs/correspondence for background at
- http://sfm.scot/scottish-football-an-honest-game-honestly-governed
- http://sfm.scot/an-honest-game-convince-us/
- http://sfm.scot/an-honest-game-convince-us/https://sfmarchive.privateland.net/it-takes-two-to-tangle/
In the latest letter below sent to Harper MacLeod and SPL Board members on 5th September 2014, you will find the story of what happened when the LNS Decision was delivered to the SPL Board and how the withholding of those same documents not only meant The Commission was misled from the outset in its terms of reference, but how the SPL Board were also incorrectly advised as a consequence of the same concealment.
It is a matter of some regret that secrecy, concealment and non-accountability continues to be the order of the day, not only in Scottish football but in the media coverage of this particular part of its history, but if this series of blogs does nothing else it will bring out the truth not only about the use of ebts but the deceitful attempts thereafter to try and minimise the damage caused. The Inaction will also stand as an indictment against all those responsible in the game and the media who cover it.
Letter to Harper MacLeod
Dear Mr McKenzie
We write further to our letters of 19th February, 29 March and reminder letter of 18th May 2014 to ask if the SPFL are now , after studiously ignoring for 6 months the correspondence and evidence provided, going to reconsider their position in respect of the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission and Decision of 28 February 2013?
In the detail of our letter of 29 March we suggested that It may be prudent to wait for the results of HMRC’s appeal to the UTT concerning the regularity or otherwise of ebt payments made under the MGMRT arrangement before embarking on any premature decision on the integrity of the LNS Commission Decision with regard to the true nature of the REBT payments being concealed from it.
The UTT have ruled and we know that payments under the MGMRT ebt arrangement are, for the time being and until the Court of Sessions re-examine the case at some future date , “lawful” or “not irregular” in tax terms.
However convenient as that may be to put off addressing the wider issue of the true nature of the MGRT ebts used by Rangers, it is no reason in terms of the LNS Commission, not to examine the effect of the concealment from yourselves as commissioners and the SPL of ebt payments made from 2000 to 2002/03 under the REBT arrangements to Tor Andre Flo and Ronald De Boer which were already ruled irregular by a separate FTT investigating the use of the same Discounted Option Scheme by Aberdeen Asset Management.
We remind you that in the earlier undated letter sent on 19th February we provided irrefutable evidence that
- Yourself, acting as the investigating agent for the SPL, was not provided with all the documentation you requested on 5th March 2012
- That documentation clearly demonstrated that in the case of two players named on the Commission list (Ronald De Boer and Tor Andre Flo) payments were made via an irregular ebt mechanism that subsequently rendered them subject to tax which HMRC has been trying unsuccessfully to collect since May 2011, a year before the commissioning process commenced.
- That in both cases side letters concealed from both football and tax authorities were a feature, whilst later relevant documentation revealing their true irregular nature was not provided as directed by yourselves to the Commission itself.
It is now our firm contention that
- The findings of Lord Nimmo Smith from paras 104 to 106 of his Decision that no sporting advantage accrued must be set aside where now known irregular payments have occurred. Using Lord Nimmo Smith’s argument sporting advantage had to accrue from season 1999/2000 to 2002/03 and the SPFL need to address that truth and consequences for our game to move on.
- Whilst it is unclear which SPL/SFA rules would have been breached by making irregular payments, it was not the rules the Commission was directed to examine as, according to the Lord Nimmo Smith Decision para 88 “ There may be extreme cases in which there is such a fundamental defect that the registration of a player must be treated as having been invalid from the outset “
- Payment by irregular means clearly constitute such a fundamental defect and so an extreme case. These payments should not have been conflated with other payments which are for the time being not irregular and to allow an investigation to stand that wrongly treated them under the same rules as the Commission did for regular payments would be a clear miscarriage of justice caused itself by apparent deception of the Commission by those whose very behaviour it was commissioned to investigate! (If we were using lay man terms we could say that the SP(F)L clubs and their supporters were and are being treated like mugs by those governing our game.)
On the matter of that apparent deception we can even go further on its impact. It is a fact that the SPL never made any public announcement as a Board of acceptance of the Lord Nimmo Smith decision. There was one individual statement but no official SPL Board announcement.
We understand that the matter of making an appeal was raised by the SPL Board on 28 Feb 2013 during a telephone conference meeting, not a face to face one, to discuss the most serious issue ever facing Scottish football and that a decision was delayed for 7 days by which time the date for lodging an appeal was about to end.
During the discussions by e mail some Board members expressed dissatisfaction at the token nature of the punishment for what Rangers had been found guilty of (basically misregistration of players) but also concerns about how no sporting advantage had been obtained through the use of ebts with side letters.
The Board were persuaded by your good self that Rangers had a sound argument that no sporting advantage had accrued. The Board were told that Rangers in effect had said that if the EBT details were required to be disclosed, the reason they did not disclose them was because of an error by Rangers in understanding what was required to be disclosed and that in any event they had secured no competitive advantage from not disclosing since the tax position would have been the same whether they disclosed to the SPL/SFA or not.
Given our opening points we suggest that during the investigation had you had in your possession the withheld evidence we supplied in our letter of 19 February 2014 (and notwithstanding the point re different terms of reference resulting) you would have been able to demonstrate the flaw in this argument to the SPL Board when they were asking your advice on the legal position in early March 2013.
It is difficult to accept that there was an error in understanding that side letters should not be disclosed as part of player registration when our supplied evidence shows that in 2005 Rangers deliberately concealed the existence of side letter for De Boer and Flo from HMRC.
Far from suggesting an error in understanding, this suggests that Rangers understood that to reveal the existence of such letters would remove the tax advantage that ebts gave them and that this advantage depended upon side letters being kept secret from authority and that includes football authority, lest informing them alerted HMRC to their existence. The QC advice contained in the withheld documents is that this deliberate concealment in 2005 demonstrated Rangers true intention of putting cash in the hands of player as part of their remuneration package.
It is also clear that revelation of these particular side letters and their circumstances would indeed have changed the tax position since HMRC have billed Rangers for the tax due on the payments to De Boer and Flo.
HMRC have not done so for Moore because the absence of a side letter puts the tax due on that transaction outside the extended time limit rules that allowed them to pursue payment for Flo and De Boer, but regardless of this and regardless of whether it was notified to the SFA, Moore was paid by an irregular means not available to other clubs..
The questions for yourself Mr McKenzie is had you been in possession then of the information supplied by TSFM would you at the time of investigation been in a better position to either refute the case Rangers made in their defence or to advise the SPL Board that the evidence of deliberate concealment from HMRC in 2005 of what transpired to be irregular payments, gave the SPL Board reason for entering an appeal?
Did the very absence of that material, which was not your fault, prevent you from briefing the SPL Board in a way that you might have done had you had all the evidence to hand?
We think the original evidence supplied and the questions raised now as a result of more fully appreciating what was hidden from the then SPL Board (and so SPL clubs) in March 2013 requires that the SPFL conduct a new cleansing investigation into :
- The apparent deception by Duff and Phelps of the SPL led Commission ,
- Why the SFA President, Campbell Ogilvie, did not advise or correct Lord Nimmo Smith or The SPL and
- The implications of the use of now revealed irregular payments by Rangers FC during seasons 1999/2000 to 2002/03.
This letter has been sent by e mail to the current SPL Board members and also by mail or e mail to the then Board Members who, whilst no longer in position might have their own views on what needs to be done on this issue to restore integrity to the very processes Scottish football relies on to ensure fair play.
Castofthousands says:
October 3, 2014 at 5:57 pm
‘.From what I’ve seen Whyte has not been the most disreputable steward ..’
————
No, indeed.
Judge Tyre observes in relation to Whyte ” Through his actings at the time of and after acquisition of Rangers, the respondent demonstrated a reckless disregard for the interests of the company to which he owed fiduciary duties.”
There are some who may fancy that that observation could have more tellingly and appropriately been made of the ‘actings’ of the man who sold RFC to a scoundrel: a scoundrel whose ‘previous’ is unlikely to have been unknown to him.
The ‘Fiduciary duties’ of the major shareholder of a plc must surely include a duty to check out by due diligence the bona fides of a prospective buyer of the club.
It appears to me SDM was extremely remiss and reckless in the performance of that duty. The ire and angry fire of the RFC support should more readily and justly concentrated on him, rather than on his stooge.
SDM is the more guilty destroyer of RFC, slinking out to save himself , utterly heedless of the advice of his fellow-directors and deeply uncaring of what he was doing to the support.
He has not been at all appropriately punished, being skilful and powerful enough to deflect,with his pathetic ‘I was duped’ bleating, most of the blame on to others.
Despicable.
Is TSFM Closed for the weekend?
Smugas says:
October 3, 2014 at 10:40 am
Where the plan trips though, is that they need RFC on the field to be winning (ie. gaining promotion).
====================
My worry, rightly or wrongly, is that they need RFC to be winning at the very top more often than not. Is that possible unless the club lives outwith its means? I guess it is, but the many years of pain that would be required for it to happen do not appear to be an option.
Setting aside the financial side of trfc for a now,I know,I know,if the manager decides not to walk after today’s game then the fan’s must be in for a change of tactics with a plan to introduce interesting football,there is no room for error now ally, every match could be your last,can you deliver.
Wrt the recent discussion over the reasons for the change in date and kick-off time for tomorrow’s Celtic v Hamilton game in which TV requirements were raised as well as other difficulties created by another Glasgow sporting event which, as far as I can see, affects part of the city centre stretching to Glasgow’s south-west .
As I pointed out the date change from Saturday was simply because of Celtic being on European duty on Thursday as per normal. It has since been pointed out to me that the match isn’t being televised and that the change in kick-off time was publicly explained by Celtic last week as follows:
Obviously TV requirements do affect the timing of some matches and there is a valid discussion to be held around that issue but it would appear that on this occasion it isn’t a factor.
Especially as Celtic, in consultation with its fans; the away team and the SPFL thought it was worth trialling and I commend them for that.
Eco,
I see your entirely understandable Sunday Celtic match and raise you Hamilton vs Aberdeen a week on Friday night at 7.45
All the more frustrating when the more doable Aberdeen Dundee and Aberdeen ICT were seen fit to be played at 3pm Saturday.
Next up, a Friday match at pittodrie – Utd, county even St J? Nope. Motherwell!
It’s almost as if they want the trial to fail from a spectator standpoint, albeit I understand the flip arguement that we get to see it in PPV tv.
Following up on Lord Tyre’s comments on Whyte, this is from the ‘Herald’ this morning:
“The Crown Office yesterday confirmed a report surrounding the Rangers’ investigation concerning five men in connection with alleged incidents between January 2010 and November 2012.It is understood the report was submitted in August. ‘The case remains under the consideration of the Procurator Fiscal’ said a Crown Office spokesman.”
How absolutely amazing that quite without any head-scratching, 5 names leapt immediately to mind.
Maybe some collars will indeed be phelt and some profesional duffers and horse-lovers and dodgy lawyers brought to book.
What a delightful prospect to anticipate-the forces of justice and law operating with impartiality and without fear or favour to protect the public and punish the guilty.
Also in the “Herald”, Mr Ware of Worthington Group affirming their claim over Sevco 5088’s legal action.
Folks
I think most of us appreciate the time and effort put in by the late Paul McConville in keeping all of us who were interested in the unfolding saga at RFC, informed of what each new development meant in legal and practical terms.
Paul’s brother Mark McConville will be running in the Glasgow half Marathon tomorrow to raise money for the British Heart Foundation in memory of his brother Paul and it is a cause some may wish to contribute to
Mark’s donation page is https://www.justgiving.com/mark-mcconville
JC
Just when you think thing’s are slowing down,along comes another cracker,there will be enough reading material to keep us going to Xmas, at least,even Ally might have time on his hands to join in the reading
John Clark says:
October 4, 2014 at 11:43 am
With this, and the Worthington case, that both have the possibility of leaving RIFC plc with no heritable assets, you have to wonder why anyone would want to invest/increase an investment in RIFC. With this in mind, can anyone see a reason behind Ashley’s increased shareholding as anything other than a move to protect his ‘onerous contracts’ by being in a position to block/hinder any attempts to get rid of them? On the other hand, surely if the assets end up reverting back to the liquidators of RFC, then any rights purchased by Green would revert back too!
Regardless of the merits of their case against Green/RIFC/TRFC, Worthington would surely lose out, too, in the event that the sale to Green/Sevco 5088 was found to be illegal/improper!
Seems there’s still a lot of hyenas sniffing around the corpse of RFC!
Listened to Ronnie McDonald (HAFC Chairman) being interviewed on Radio Scotland at lunchtime (Off the Ball). He said no one should be on the TRFC/RIFC Board unless “they had spent time on a supporters’s bus”. In other words, they should all be true ‘Rangers Men’. When it was pointed out to him that (as a boyhood RFC fan) he had never travelled on an Accies supporters’ bus, his response was along the lines that Rangers/Celtic fans expected those running their clubs to be mindful of their history and tradition. So, sorry Accies fans (and the other 39 SPFL clubs) but no one cares about your history and tradition. TRFC/Celtic are special cases apparently, but I guess that will come as no surprise to those of us who support the ‘lesser lights’ of Scottish football. C’est la vie!
Allyjambo
Oh what a tangled web we weave
I could only listen to the first half of tam and spiers so in fairness they may have moved onto this in the second half. My listening seems to tie in with that described above though and it didn’t bode well for the scone half.
As an aside spiersy was majoring on how his footballing horizons had widened since RFC’s downfall. Had to smile that tam mentioned that the highland derby had kicked off but went on to inform us that it was Caley thistle versus county, just to save graham asking.
No, seriously, spiersy’s main thrust and good on him for doing so, was asking everyone who would listen, where they felt football sat at present, referring predominantly to the SPFL. All seemed to agree that on the field in terms of nationwide competition it was good. Equally, it was disappointing that crowds were low (highlighting 3500 at 1st vs 3rd on Friday night).
To me what was screaming out to be said was ok, whether by accident or design (as if) we are where we are and on the field it’s good, it’s just we need the off the field numbers to match. I was waiting for Ronnie to ask ” and what has been done in the last two years to help that” but there was a very odd pause, almost as if he was trying not to say it, or to find a better way of saying it.
As I say he might have gone on to say it. (In fairness he did make a very good point that they had got Hamiltonian crowd from 3 figures to 4 so everything is relative) but I just felt there was a yawning chasm desperate to be filled. Show me the crowd initiatives. Show me the crowd friendly ( as opposed to tv friendly) scheduling.
Give him his due he didn’t do the handwringing “if only there were old firm games” either which I I suspect came as a disappointment to half of the presenters.
Top Cat 1874 says:
October 4, 2014 at 1:51 pm
Sounds like TRFC mean more to him than the club he’s chairman of. An insult to the HAFC supporters and an indication of why Scottish football is rotten to the core. Clearly TRFC mean more to the chairman of Hamilton Accies than they do to the current Ibrox chairman, emotionally at least!
Smugas says:
October 4, 2014 at 11:32 am
I have to admit that I have never ever studied the TV deal in detail and perhaps naively assumed that if the clubs didn’t regard it as financially viable then they wouldn’t commit to the package.
Of course that raises the issue of what the fans – who actually go to games – want. Personally Friday is usually my night with the boys so attending a match then is highly unlikely for me in any case. It would have to be some match 😆
I note the Celtic Sunday 1pm experiment will continue on Sunday 26 October with Kilmarnock the visitors. As with tomorrow’s game against Accies the Killy switch is because of the Thursday night UEFA duty involving FC Astra on 23 October.
John Clark says:
October 4, 2014 at 11:43 am
Also in the “Herald”, Mr Ware of Worthington Group affirming their claim over Sevco 5088’s legal action.
=======================================================
Auldheid posted a link to Mark McConville’s donation page at: https://www.justgiving.com/mark-mcconville to raise money for the British Heart Foundation in memory of his Big Brother Paul.
A timely moment to reflect on the class act that Paul was in terms of explaining complex legal matters in a way that us mere mortals could understand.
And here’s one of Paul’s posts that is still of interest: http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/worthington-plc-claim-to-have-reported-charles-green-and-imran-ahmad-to-the-serious-fraud-office/
RIP Big Man.
Since it’s the lull before the storm down Govan way…mibbees…
Billy Connolly will be assisting Campbell Ogilvie with the Scottish Cup draw on Monday.
The perfect partnership: a comedian and a joke!
…I’ll get the balls warmer (you know what I mean
)
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/billy-connolly-to-make-scottish-cup-draw-1-3562701
Eco,
I think that’s the void I was referring to earlier. The general consensus was/is that the game on the field (and I include in that, as you put it, the fans that actually go) was generally in a better, more even, more geographically widespread place. The disconnect seemed to be when they went onto discuss ‘the game’ in the wider context which, as Tam correctly stated, inevitably comes down to money. (Although credit where it’s due Ronnie highlighted their own success with Hamilton attendances and so forth there just seemed to be nothing on what is being done to harness this integrity fuelled competitiveness). Not a “here’s a list of things we’ve done” not a “here’s a list of what we could do” (although nice dig by Ronnie re the old SPL 10,000 seated rules) not even, as I expected, a rant to say why exactly is nothing being done. It surprised me, that’s all.
I love autocorrect
I hate smartphones.
Just fancy a scone now though, thanks for that!
Livingston’s programme writer won’t be the most popular person with the Rangers historians.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzG11u4IEAAp7yH.jpg:large
Oops. Just noticed the highland derby is tomorrow. In my defence the half of off the ball I did hear I was making lunch for two screaming weans. Thus I put it to you m’lud and learned friends that I used the word ‘hear’ in the loosest possible sense.
This could be true…
Another comedian will be assisting Campbell Ogilvie at the next Scottish Cup draw – Karen Dunbar of “Chewin’ the Fat” fame.
But she is under strict instructions not to turn round to Ogilvie at the commencement of the live televised draw to say…
“I smell shoite !!” 😉
(Lot’s of potential here: the SFA engaging a comedian to help them run their operations – you couldn’t make it up.)
Seems Mr Holmes has turned up.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/good-grief-holmes/#more-5148 …
http://bluewillem.wordpress.com/tag/james-holmes/
Anyone mind Merchant turnaround etc etc.
How very very interesting. And puzzling. Has he lost Craigie?
Have a trawl. Apart from Craigie I see Early crops up a bit. Any others light your fire?
http://companycheck.co.uk/director/900561366/JAMES-DOMINIC-RUPERT-HOLMES/directors-secretaries#people
jean7brodie says:
October 4, 2014 at 5:39 pm
‘..Seems Mr Holmes has turned up.’
ianagain says:
‘..How very very interesting. And puzzling. Has he lost Craigie’
October 4, 2014 at 6:35 pm
—————–
Councillor James Dominic Rupert Holmes(who was re-elected in May 2014 as Conservative Councillor [now there’s a surprise!] for Trinity Ward, in the London Borough of Merton,and who has only declared one ‘interest’- Holborn Capital Ltd, Co. no, 07705941) feels like such an old friend that I felt entitled to email him to ask him about his feelings about being an alleged ‘persona non grata’ at Ibrox.
I wonder will he reply? 🙂
John Clark says:
October 4, 2014 at 9:12 pm
I wonder will he reply? 🙂
————————————
Only if he can do joined up writing JC, given all his inadequacies!!!!!!!
Chaos
Think it’s fair to assume that the current and total breakdown
Can be attributed to be fast and loose playing with hard won rules
Exploited by spivs
All responsible parties should be held to account
As quickly as possible to avoid this getting any worse
But it will, as responsible parties are looking after their backsides and selfishly stupid
mtp
Ah Jean you attracted some TDrs wonder why? Curiosor and Curiosor
The sevco5088 claim crew I`d guess been angling for a pay-off since the IPO. They got nothing then and nothing since. My guess is there’s more `tapes` or such and W v confident.
Maybe they’ve made an offer to take back everything but not pursue further action letting the spivs escape with their looted cash. Or maybe they’ve offered to take everything back plus the looted cash then letting spivs escape. Perhaps even they’ll take everything back including the looted cash plus sue the current spivs to their last penny.
Or maybe they’ve launched a criminal action for fraud
So
Why the recent CW ban stuff timing?
&
Why PR/MSM gone black smoke (again)
Who cares anymore?
It’s all completely rotten
mtp
Trouble is, jean7brodie, that guys like him survive, and do well, like they wee pilot fish, or other, lower level parasites.
Their entire lives are spent living a lie.
They contribute nothing to the well-being of the rest of us.And they privately mock the suggestion that they should act in any way other than what enriches them personally.
We all know this, but somehow we have failed, in this capitalist system of ours, to weed these cancerous chancres out.
They still, like sh.te ,float along the surface, giving two fingers to the rest of us whom they relish ripping off.
And the most ripped off in recent times by these exploiters are, of course,what we used to be able to call the Rangers support.
And it being a quietish kind of day,and feeling in expansive, nay,skittish, mood [nice, bracing walk in the Pentlands, very nice Nigel Slater anchovy-based dinner, wife quite happy with the ‘Strictly’ voting, me quite happy with her being happy while I read about the First World War in between visits to the blog) let me say that I emailed David Whitehouse, soliciting his view on Worthington Group’s claims to be Sevco 5088’s ‘heirs’, entitled to the assets alleged to have been irregularly given to Sevco Scotland.
I assured him, of course, that I knew that Lord Hodge had cleared him and his fellow joint-administrator of any kind of jiggery-pokery,but made the point that the continuing interest in the matter was,well, of great interest to many people.
Do I expect a reply? In the words of John Wayne ( and all of a sudden I can’t remember the film [ early onset? 🙁 ].. ” Not hardly”.
John Big Jake – 1971 ish
I am still awaiting an answer from the SFA (apart from an auto-generated reply) to a perfectly reasonable question I asked some months ago. In my e-mail I stressed that as a season card holder for almost two decades I believe they should engage with me as a stakeholder in Scottish football. I previously wrote to the Scottish Government asking them to insist the SFA engages with its customer base given it receives taxpayers money, and their reply was along the simple lines of ‘we don’t care a toss whether they engage with you or not’. I really can’t get my head round why no-one in any governing position anywhere wants the SFA to be accountable. It is a scandal of epic proportions, and no other organisation receiving public funds would be allowed by the Government to behave in this way. I would love to go in much deeper and say what I think the root of the problem really is, but I don’t want TSFM administering six of the belt again!
I see the good chaps over in the Den are going mental about the potted history of TRFC as contained in the match programme at Livingstone yesterday.
I read the link posted by easyJambo above and found it quite an accurate account.
One of their number feels that the article is, in fact, slanderous and the Board should take legal action forthwith.
Leaving aside the fact that Slander doesn’t apply to the written word, I just wanted to wish them all good luck on this one.
I’ve been thinking about the press, the establishment and how those relationships shape the media and further impact society.
From a purely football perspective we have seen first hand the corrosive effect where David Murray and Rangers cowing of the press was in itself a Pyrrhic victory.
I was thinking of the after effects and the new norms that were created out of chasing lamb. New relationships are formed, new ways of ‘doing business’ are created over time which then become normal and habitual.
The oft cited easy ride given the big teams best summed up by my dons supporting friend who said ‘Rangers get all the decisions, Celtic want the decisions Rangers get and the rest get nothing’. The dynamic of officiating itself has been shaped by the power of the big clubs. Where contentious decisions will result in open season on officials in the media to the extent that norms become inverted and a governing body attempts to protect it’s own rather than address the underlying problems.
I was thinking about a very British way of doing things. Where norms become crystallised and eventually decay because of an inability to change and adapt to the new paradigms.
We have a history of this within vast areas of British heavy industry. We are witnessing it in the slow death of the print industry. Scottish football itself has been a case in point with the glacial pace of change or formation of coherent strategy to modernise and improve.
And yet the old established order remains. The relationships, the access, the way of doing things. Not rocking the boat. Knowing the side your bread is buttered. But the people are eating less bread, buying it elsewhere or making their own.
Top Cat 1874 says:
October 4, 2014 at 1:51 pm
97 2 Rate This
…TRFC/Celtic are special cases apparently, but I guess that will come as no surprise to those of us who support the ‘lesser lights’ of Scottish football. C’est la vie!
———
I thought Ronnie was, on the whole, a brilliant listen. His big-club blind spot was the only bit of his contribution that was disappointing. But he was entirely candid about his youthful affiliations, so no hidden agenda there.
I really liked his emphasis on Accies’ youth development and local community engagement. The genuine charitable work mentioned was inspiring. His take on what should have happened — and what should happen — over at Ibrox, reeked of seldom-broadcast common sense.
He seemed convinced, though, that the lack of a cash-rich sponsorship deal was directly related to the uncertain future about what I believe he called ‘the OF flagship of Scottish football’. Maybe he’s right? If so, a bit sad.
I’d loved to have heard Stuart Cosgrove’s comeback on RM’s big-team opinions. Next week, perhaps.
Graham Spiers comes across more and more as a tabloid wrapped in a broadsheet. Not sure he shares the Off the Ball ethos.
The print press was always going to decline,the new world of communications is what is,there will be a demand for the printing of a tabloid of kind but not what we have now,the hacks here unfortunately have accelerated the demise of the paper sales here due to their inability to report the news as fact, it is worse than that, they copy & paste or at worst print cr@p and expect the punters to pay for this.
I personally will take a lot of convincing that one return of the beast sponsorship deal will be better than three, and counting, little ones.
ianagain says:
October 4, 2014 at 11:58 pm
Ah Jean you attracted some TDrs wonder why? Curiosor and Curiosor
ianagain says:
October 4, 2014 at 11:58 pm
Ah Jean you attracted some TDrs wonder why? Curiosor and Curiosor
——————————————–
Am I bovvered? 😉
Hamilton 20
Dundee utd 19
Inverness 17
Kilmarnock 17
Aberdeen 16
————–
Hearts 22
Rangers 16
————-
SMSM were adamant that the reverse of this situation would take place
andygraham.66 says:
October 5, 2014 at 3:10 pm
Hamilton 20
Dundee utd 19
Inverness 17
Kilmarnock 17
Aberdeen 16
————–
Hearts 22
Rangers 16
————-
SMSM were adamant that the reverse of this situation would take place
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Wouldn’t it be funny if the much desired “old firm derby” took place next season after all but with both teams in the championship. 😯
… or this year in the playoffs? 😉
scottc says:
October 5, 2014 at 3:42 pm
5 0 Rate This
spanishcelt says:
October 5, 2014 at 3:36 pm
Wouldn’t it be funny if the much desired “old firm derby” took place next season after all but with both teams in the championship. 😯
… or this year in the playoffs? 😉
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is interesting to me is the attitudes from the MSM that Celtic/Deila and T’Rangers/McCoist will still come good.
Despite the doom and gloom the Celtic one is easier in that they have a good base to start with and I for one believe the Deila/Collins approach to altering the practices and attitudes to the game in this country is one that has been needed for a long time. They may not be setting the heather alight just now but they will come good at some point.
At Ibrox however we have a team that appears to have both attitude and injury issues. Boyd, who turned his back on his country, is hardly the player to suck it up when things aren’t going his way. Bell is out, oldies like Miller and Zaliukas are crocked, McCulloch and Daly don’t have the legs anymore. While Bell is there for the long term the other five named are all going to need replacing shortly – maybe even this season (don’t ask me how!!!). Are the others up to the job if the senior players go AWOL.
Meanwhile Hearts have taken a few injuries and suspensions in their stride. They seem to have back ups without resorting to playing people out of position.
Hibs can only improve.
Raith have shown they are still up for a fight.
Just can’t see how some are still thinking it will be a breeze for T’Rangers.
Something’s happened to Scottish football that the authorities will have to sort out, very soon, as we surely don’t want supporters saying this sort of thing about their rivals. This appeared on a Queen of the South fans’ forum; fortunately the norm was maintained at a ground in West Lothian!
“Over 5,000 at a league match at Palmerston for the first time in a few years, and after yesterday’s downpour, the visitors from Edinburgh packing the Terregles Street end must have been grateful for a return to pleasant October sunshine this afternoon. High flying Hearts brought nearly 3,000 fans down to the game, and I have to admit, at times, the atmosphere they were creating was so good, I almost felt like joining in!”
Something must have gone seriously wrong in Scottish football when football fans can join each other in pubs and clubs and sing their songs.* Just what is our country coming to? And, now, with the Premiership actually being much more interesting than the Championship, things really have been turned on their head. Surely the men who promised us the golden days of Armageddon must get this shameful situation sorted out, pretty damn quick!
*I particularly like this one, of a number of similar stories from yesterday. I bet Super Ally wishes he’d been there:
“I was in the pub called”The new bazaar”
some Qos fans had organised a pie eating contest & karaoke.even let us sing our hearts song.great atmophere
BTW Hearts won the pie eating comp but they won the singing haha.”
Wottpi
A breeze for trangers
Let’s hope their wind doesn’t die down
Allyjambo says:
October 5, 2014 at 4:14 pm
13 0 Rate This
Something’s happened to Scottish football that the authorities will have to sort out, very soon, as we surely don’t want supporters saying this sort of thing about their rivals. This appeared on a Queen of the South fans’ forum; fortunately the norm was maintained at a ground in West Lothian!
“Over 5,000 at a league match at Palmerston for the first time in a few years, and after yesterday’s downpour, the visitors from Edinburgh packing the Terregles Street end must have been grateful for a return to pleasant October sunshine this afternoon. High flying Hearts brought nearly 3,000 fans down to the game, and I have to admit, at times, the atmosphere they were creating was so good, I almost felt like joining in!”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AJ I share your concerns here. I was at the game yesterday and it was very disconcerting to be in such an atmosphere. Mingling with away fans in their own pub at the ground, good conversation , packed terraces and an absence of bigotry (at least it seemed like it from where I was sitting). I was constantly looking over my shoulder for over friendly Doonhamers, one of whom actually said to me ” we like it when you come here”- without a hint of malice.
Things must surely change when Sevco get back to their “rightful place” “for the good of Scottish football”. In the meantime , I will try my best to enjoy my football.
Wonder if the authorities will take an interest in the wee stramash and a bit more from Almondvale yesterday or will it as usual be brushed under the carpet. Not gonna post the link as I dare say most folks on here will have seen and read about what went on.
What a breath of fresh air to read the above reports from Palmerston of how football fans should interact. More of this please…..
I was at Celtic Park today. I will not dwell on what I think is currently wrong at my club, but will instead make the observation that Hamilton Accies showed today they are where they are in the league for a very good reason. Interestingly the top league currently looks more competitive than the much vaunted Championship. At this rate Celtic could be facing Rangers in the play offs 😥
I wholeheartedly agree. Professional athletes in other sports take care of their diet as a matter of course. Not sure they will be given the time needed though. Having said that, if they win their game in hand, they would only be three points off the top.
Had a flick through this today
http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=RFC&share=RANGERS_INT
Vast (98%) majority inconsequential nonsense
They should team up with SMSM
Managed planted co-ordinated crap got to be a symbiotic step up in intellect aspiration
mtp
Regarding current league positons and the performance of the new management team at Celtic.
I would prefer the negative results to change, and soon!
But….and it’s a big but, I am actually enjoying watching the football just now, knowing that just about any team we play could beat us.
So to all those Celtic fans who are flooding the call lines (apparently) to complain and call for the sacking of the management team, think about what you actually want from your sport.
I for one am very grateful for the competition we are currently experiencing, I know Celtic are downgrading to a certain extent but I would much rather see my players fighting for every ball and having to play well to win a game than treating it as a training game and winning a League without being pushed too hard.
Bring on more of this as I actually find the league very interesting just now, frustrating but interesting!
scottc says:
October 5, 2014 at 7:36 pm
wottpi says:
October 5, 2014 at 4:11 pm
I for one believe the Deila/Collins approach to altering the practices and attitudes to the game in this country is one that has been needed for a long time.
………………………………..
I wholeheartedly agree. Professional athletes in other sports take care of their diet as a matter of course.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I am sorry but I do not think for one minute that the diet and practices have been anything other than professional, I don’t believe Lennon or Strachan before him would have accepted anything but 100% from the players.
These players were all fit enough and looked after themselves well enough last season and in previous seasons when reaching last 16 c.l.
They have sold players for tens of millions of pounds every season and that doesn’t happen for players who are not training or eating properly.
I do believe Delia and Collins (and Celtic)have treated Scottish football and the rest of the league with contempt and a lot of these teams noW realise that they are there for the taking with a manager and assistant who are not up to the job.
There were plenty of young Scottish managers who celtic could have went for with every bit as much potential but they chose in my opinion the cheapest and most agreeable person they could get.
mtp
Madbhoy24941 says:
October 5, 2014 at 7:58 pm
I would prefer the negative results to change, and soon!
But….and it’s a big but, I am actually enjoying watching the football just now, knowing that just about any team we play could beat us.
So to all those Celtic fans who are flooding the call lines (apparently) to complain and call for the sacking of the management team, think about what you actually want from your sport.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
but surely no one wants their team to be really bad so they have competition?
I would love Aberdeen, Dundee utd, Motherwell, any spl team to win the league instead of Celtic BUT only if we maintained our level and they surpassed us.
That’s what will make the game, the national team, sponsorship, tv deals better.
Yes bring on more of it, I am 10 times more embarrassed at being done over twice by the Accies as a ‘Well fan but lets face it right now they are the best side. Good young scots 38 man squad (7 non scots).
Who says the tables the wrong way up. Its correctly the way it is.
upthehoops says:
October 5, 2014 at 7:25 pm
I think we can say, for the moment at least, Hamilton Accies are where they belong. In fact, they are in their rightful place, a hard won rightful place!
spanishcelt says:
October 5, 2014 at 8:15 pm
——————
but surely no one wants their team to be really bad so they have competition?
I would love Aberdeen, Dundee utd, Motherwell, any spl team to win the league instead of Celtic BUT only if we maintained our level and they surpassed us.
That’s what will make the game, the national team, sponsorship, tv deals better.
——————-
I don’t believe they are as bad as some would point out and I don’t care about TV deals. Investing in youth will make the game and the national team better, Sponsorship? You can keep it!
Re: McCoist
==============
So, after a flurry of seemingly co-ordinated, personal attacks on McCoist in the SMSM – he is still there. Is the ground just being ‘prepared’ before his next ‘really poor result’ ?
But as we have speculated – TRFC cannot afford to pay McCoist off – or replace him with a new manager who would also want a budget to develop his own team.
And another aspect of getting shot of McCoist: presumably the characters around RIFC/TRFC will be desperate to ensure that McCoist is also ‘gagged’ to keep all their dirty wee stories secret ? i.e McCoist would not got cheaply.
And although McCoist is one of the few [only ?] spivs who lives locally – he has displayed an incredibly thick skin over the last 2 years. If money is involved, I don’t see why he would start doing the Govan club any favours at this late stage – that would be inconsistent with his money-grabbing behaviour with TRFC to date.
So, I’m sticking with McCoist tending the garden until admin, and either Durrant or McDowall getting the manager’s position in the interim.
Allyjambo says:
October 5, 2014 at 8:23 pm
I think we can say, for the moment at least, Hamilton Accies are where they belong. In fact, they are in their rightful place, a hard won rightful place!
=====================================
Indeed. I was surprised at how decent a team they looked. Just about every Celtic fan I spoke to thought likewise. They also had a healthy support at the game.
A few tweets from Gregory Ioannidis that look interesting:
Gregory Ioannidis
@LawTop20
I inderstand that the European Parliament is showing an interest in the Rangers matter.
8:48pm – 5 Oct 1
Gregory Ioannidis
@LawTop20
It is not a question of whether it is a new club, but whether its registration and membership are valid. The answer detetmines the rest.
StevieBC says:
October 5, 2014 at 8:45 pm
So, after a flurry of seemingly co-ordinated, personal attacks on McCoist in the SMSM – he is still there.
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Personally I thought there was an undue haste among Radio pundits yesterday to try and say everything is okay again simply because of a narrow win against Livingston.
ianagain says:
October 5, 2014 at 8:17 pm
4 1 Rate This
Yes bring on more of it, I am 10 times more embarrassed at being done over twice by the Accies as a ‘Well fan but lets face it right now they are the best side. Good young scots 38 man squad (7 non scots).
Who says the tables the wrong way up. Its correctly the way it is.
————-
Listening to Ronnie Mac’s description of the Accies’ philosophy and template on Off the Ball yesterday, this success couldn’t have happened to a nicer club.
Dear European Parliament
PM me.
Yours sincerely
Auldheid
ianagain says:
October 4, 2014 at 6:35 pm
http://bluewillem.wordpress.com/tag/james-holmes/
ianagain says:
October 4, 2014 at 7:54 pm
http://companycheck.co.uk/director/900561366/JAMES-DOMINIC-RUPERT-HOLMES/directors-secretaries#people
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How extraordinary. The first link is a very tidy parcel of information that appears to have been left down for someone to find. The BlueWillem title has echoes of the early proposals to purchase RFC from (S)DM.How very kind of its author to have left this little timely present.
On the second list the following names to be added to your familiars:
Sherri Louise Ellison
Phillip Betts
Paul Hassall
I also wondered if Victor Ng and Sui Fai Ng were any relation to Bill?
readcelt says:
October 5, 2014 at 11:32 am
“I was thinking about a very British way of doing things. Where norms become crystallised and eventually decay because of an inability to change and adapt to the new paradigms.”
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That’s a really thoughtful piece readcelt. I’ve been musing over some of the wider lessons that can be learned from all we have seen and to some extent your thoughts resonate with me.
It’s as if feudalism never really went away. It’s as if the free market is just an illusion to dress up the reality of concession and privilege and vested interest. It is an outlook that is almost certainly shaped by history as from where else could attitudes arise. The empire to a large extent shielded the UK from competition so entitlement was inherent. When it came time to move on there was a reluctance to take the first step and embrace modernity.
I suppose that is what we are seeing writ large; people looking backwards at the way things were. The imagination has for so long fallen out of use that to rekindle it now would threaten to crack the vessel.
Consistently amazed at the learning derived by reading the posts and links in this site. Good grief, how could i have been working for nearly forty years without starting dozens of connected or otherwise companies that don’t file any accounts with companies house, and that could have been used to rip off my fellow citizens to enrich myself and my scurilous contacts.
I recall a saying that if i owed a bank £2000 but couldnt pay i’d have a problem, but if I owed a bank £200 million they’d have a problem. The credit bubble may have burst for most of us but hey ho, lots of debt to go round, eh?
I’ll risk going OT, and opine that if all goes well, Scotland will in the next few years find a way to extract itself from the corporate corruption that is UK PLC and return a modicum of social justice, fairness and good governance to our communities and institutions, including that collection of fearties in the SFA (miraculously back on topic).
Until then, the increasing anger and determination fomenting in more than 45% of the hearts of the population will no doubt be aware of many more of the injustices and shenanigans raining down on us all by those with more regard for wealth than commonwealth. Oh, and keep it up Ye Reds!
Danish Pastry says:
October 5, 2014 at 8:51 pm
‘.A few tweets from Gregory Ioannidis that look interesting:.’
——–
Interesting indeed, DP.
But I do wish the Gregory boy would give his source.
It’s hard enough to find out what is discussed in our own wee Parliament, or Westminster, never mind what occupies the sinecure holders in that monstrously bloated, useless rubber-stamp of a pretendy parliament.And I am NOT Nigel Farage (don’t care enough about him even to check the spelling of his name!)
What a surprise as Livvy have to apologise about their programme
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-programme-jibes-livingston-chairman-4386766
John Clark says:
October 5, 2014 at 9:53 pm
1 0 Rate This
Interesting indeed, DP.
But I do wish the Gregory boy would give his source.
It’s hard enough to find out what is discussed in our own wee Parliament, or Westminster, never mind what occupies the sinecure holders in that monstrously bloated, useless rubber-stamp of a pretendy parliament.And I am NOT Nigel Farage (don’t care enough about him even to check the spelling of his name!)
—————
Aye, those tweets are a bit of a tease.
The exact sequence of events that led to the Sevco registration was all very chaotic; and in reality, wasn’t there the Brechin anomaly? Perhaps someone’s leaked the 5-way to the boys in Brussels? Or maybe their legal eagles have spotted some very dodgy goings on? Heaven forbid it should all come back to haunt those fine chaps at the SFA & SPFL. That would be a real shame.
Bill1903 says:
October 5, 2014 at 10:19 pm
0
1
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“What a surprise as Livvy have to apologise about their programme”
I don’t think the Livingston Chairman has apologised . He simply said he was sorry if anyone was offended . He certainly didn’t say that any of the stated facts were inaccurate ,
Bill1903 says:
October 5, 2014 at 10:19 pm
‘….What a surprise as Livvy have to apologise about their programme.’
——–
Whoever actually wrote that ‘apology’ is worthy of a Nobel prize for his/her skill in wording it to give it the appearance of an apology, while subliminally re-inforcing the message of the original factual statement! The tongue must have been well and truly in the cheek, I would say…
Danish Pastry says:
October 5, 2014 at 10:21 pm
‘..Perhaps someone’s leaked the 5-way to the boys in Brussels? Or maybe their legal eagles have spotted some very dodgy goings on?’
———–
The puzzling thing to me is how the matter could be raised in the European political arena BEFORE it has been dealt with by UEFA, as being a matter for them to deal with under ‘football’ rules in the first instance. Or have UEFA taken a view, and it is that view which is being challenged? If so, by whom and on what basis?
I would be pleased, of course, if this blog’s belief that the SFA had seriously cheated is shared by MEPS, but I would like chapter and verse.
Bill1903 says:
October 5, 2014 at 10:19 pm
‘….What a surprise as Livvy have to apologise about their programme.
It looks to me like the crux of the complaints received, revolved around the charges of bigotry and sectarianism. I would say this was more of a denial than an apology, with a wee hint of, maybe there was a bit too much rubbing the truth in.