Any organisation’s plan for a top-down review of development would ordinarily be welcome news. Self evaluation, or even better independent evaluation is an ongoing process amongst professionals, individually and collectively alike. In the case of the SFA however a healthy scepticism is required. We are after all dealing with people who are the poster boys for self-interest and short-termism.
The SFA had previously commissioned a thorough review of the game (decades ago) by Rinus Michels, the inventor of “Total Football” and his report was largely ignored, partly because it implied criticism of the then current regime, and partly because it would cost money. A “Total Shambles”.
Henry McLeish also famously recommended (again after being commissioned to do so by the SFA) a more balanced approach to governance between the SFA and SPFL. This would have required a blazer or two having less say in the running of the game – and was therefore ignored.
Mark Wotte, the prominent Dutch coach hired as performance director at Hampden also suggested during his tenure that, in order to improve technique, more ball time should be provided for players in games.
He recommended seven a side competitions as the norm for u-15s (less players – more participation).
To accommodate this, club infrastructures would have required expensive upgrading, and coaches in clubs, not responsive to new ideas lobbied hard for the status quo.
The upshot is that we carried on with the same eleven-a-side games where many players hardly got a kick.
And in this classic Einsteinean definition of insanity, no overall improvements were to be found in the national team’s fortunes.
No wonder Wotte fled the scene in 2014 after three years.
Of course the details are debatable and subjective, but experience tells us;
Anything that
a) costs money or
b) upsets old boys’ networks
has a tendency to be hidden out of sight.
The recent “announcement” is merely a reaction to a couple of poor results, caused in part by inaction in the wake of previous reports’ recommendations.
An increasing number of observers of our game refer to an inferior mindset amongst players in Scotland, that we accept losing as the norm.
Hardly surprising that such a mindset is prevalent amongst professionals.
They must despair at the chronic self-interest, ineptitude and fecklessness of the “leaders” of our sport – an organisation that appointed Gordon Smith as CE (think about that for a minute) based on who his pals were, where McGregor and Petrie can become senior officers – “because it’s his turn!” – despite being unqualified squares in a round ball game, and where fairy-tales take precedence over reality.
As long as the blazers have a seat on the SFA bus, nothing will change.
It is always foreboding when Spoutpish or one of his many alter-egos rears his ugly head and his uglier ideas and manners.
It is pleasing to note that his most recent foray, sub nomine Jas Boyd, has been accorded all of the weight it deserves, i.e. none.
It's a bit ambitious to try and talk down to Auldheid but we all know Spoutpish has never been troubled by self awareness or the Dunning-Kruger effect.
If John James is still hellbent on world domination in the online hits/donations market inviting Spoutpish on board to post and comment should be considered.
It might not achieve world domination but the thought of JJ and SP interacting would be a thing of beauty. Not enlightening but a thing of beauty for all the wrong reasons. In a bizzaro universe they are made for each other.
SP could also take over the Comments duties as whatever failings he has making up names is not one.
OSILUG
StevieBC@13.15
That translation has all the hallmarks of the AmericanSoccerGuy’s Italian cousin. The AmericanSoccerGuy can be found on Twitter for anyone unfamiliar with his work.
http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/CelticPLC_AGM_Notice_2019.pdf
Re: Resolution 12;
That's encouraging, but excuse my ignorance: why could this fall under the City of London Police jurisdiction?
Is it based on the Celtic 'plc' status in the City
or
is to have the allegations referred to the Serious Fraud Office, or whatever it is called today, [but is/was that within the Met?]
or based on something else?
[Whatever the rationale: a potential investigation from anywhere outside of Scotland would be preferable.]
easyJambo 25th October 2019 at 17:08
Ever the optimist the lesser of two evils for the board might be to involve the polis (presupposing all hands are clean at Celtic plc.).I hope not, but believe this will be voted down and a long winded explanation of time/expense/expectation will accompany the negative response from the major shareholding,they will gamble that enough time has passed that the support will no longer be motivated enough to decry such (in)action.
Ex Ludo @10.37
There is a strange little enclave/exclave close to where I live that has a unique method of determining the nation in which the residents live, they let them choose themselves. I have always wondered if it could be a solution in more troublesome spots than the Low Countries. I have always found it a most fascinating anomaly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Hertog
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau
On a quiet Friday night… another alternative resource to the MSM.
Rather than paste content here, I've just copied a link to an interesting blog site.
The blog writer is an ex-FCO Ambassador.
He's recently blogged on the the young lad killed by the American woman who claimed diplomatic immunity: his inside knowledge has blown the MSM coverage wide open on some points.
He has covered the Assange case as well, which is significantly different to the prevailing MSM coverage.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk
Timtim@10.40
On first glance at the links attached to your post an image of the Bahamas sprang to mind but on further inspection this proved false. Is that where Walloons live and speak Flemish? The border is certainly innovative.
Ex L-I believe the Belgians in Baarle are Flemish , it's certainly a Flemish region and a fair distance from Wallonia but I shall ask the next time I am in the area.
Timtim@20.44
Just make sure you use the right language when inquiring. You wouldn’t want to cause an international incident.
Timtim 25th October 2019 at 20:44
'…it's certainly a Flemish region and a fair distance from Wallonia but I shall ask the next time I am in the area.'
+++++++++++
Tres bien, mon ami.
But, a votre avis, to which et'nic group belongs ze famous Belgian , how do you say, defective? , M. Poirot?
@JC
you pose a most perplexing question as Poirot is of course a fictional character whose origins are notoriously vague ,even his birthplace is disputed , Agatha Christie mentions he was from a village near Spa while the town of Ellezelles claims he is a resident from there (possibly for touristic reasons). Ellezelles is on the border with Flanders and has a sizeable Dutch speaking contingent. We know he is fluent in English French and German which brings the possibility despite his French name that he may be of Germanic origin . It is not widely known that approx 7% of Belgians are German speakers and it is one of the 3 official languages of the country. Of course just because it isn't stated that he is fluent in Dutch doesn't mean that he isn't. In todays' politically correct world I'm not even sure if we are allowed to discuss ethnic origins lest we find ourselves under various charges of undermining peoples rights to be anything they want to be, to be on the safe side I would just label him European , at least for now. And yes , before you ask ,I am TinTins' Celtic cousin.
easyJambo25th October 2019========================
If a crime has been committed in 2011 why has it not been reported to the Police already?
Why does it need a Resolution to be passed by the Celtic Plc Board?
JJ has a new article up this morning entitled Freemasonry vs The Cold Shoulder however you can’t read it unless you have a secret password.
In the judgement in the Liverpool v New Balance shirt deal Justice Teare makes the following introduction.
Mr. Justice Teare :
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2019/2837.html
Now that a new Resolution has been added to this years Celtic AGM the public at large can see the Res in full and Celtic's response.
This widens the discussion to non shareholders and supporters of all clubs and The Celtic Star at
https://twitter.com/CelticStarMag/status/1187998275229622277?s=19
were quick off the mark to capture both the new Res and Celtic's reply and add comment.
Why it's not in the long term interest of Celtic or indeed any club to be assured that the SFA are able or free to apply club licensing rules or by extension football disciplinary rules in a trustworthy manner will be interesting to hear.
Auldheid
Since the SFA have filed to take urgent, or indeed any action to fulfil the commitment they made that a thorough; independent investigation would be undertaken,
If as you have shown that the Celtic board have recommended that Resolution 12 is voted against and that will carry due to their large shareholding, The question has to be asked at this point about fiduciary duties of the Celtic board.
“The fiduciary duties and responsibilities of a director are set out to ensure there is a relationship of trust and loyalty between the director and the company’s members and shareholders. These guidelines ensure that a director is acting within the best interest of the company at all times.”
Seems like its time to crowd fund litigation against the Celtic board for failure to act in the best interests of the shareholders, bring it on!
What is abundantly clear from Auldheid’s Res 12 post above is that Scottish football’s administrators were, and are, so pathetically inept that they have stymied themselves into abject impotency when dealing with any club playing out of Ibrox by signing the legally binding contract that we know as the five-way agreement.
Those who have read early drafts of the five-way agreement will recall that title-stripping was rightly on the agenda from the start, but that each subsequent draft was a watered-down version of the one before, such that the final draft made no mention of title-stripping whatsoever and absolved the new club of any sins of the old club, save for the payment of football debts.
It is patently obvious that those blundering Hampden blazers who should have dictated terms to Charles Green’s consortium in order to grant authorisation for the new club to play, instead quivered in abject cowardice at the prospect of losing the blue pound and TV contracts. They blinked first despite holding all the aces, to mix my metaphors.
As a result of the ineptitude of our football authorities, for the past seven years we have had the ludicrous situation where one club isn’t subject to the same disciplinary regime as every other club – it was ever thus you might say – and basically sticks its middle finger up in the air each time there are calls for reviews or inquiries into its conduct, because it knows full well that Rod McKenzie & co has given it watertight legal immunity via the five-way agreement.
That’s why no action can be taken over EBTs for example, despite the Supreme Court ruling they were illegal. Our enterprising officials have concocted a legally binding document whereby they must treat the new club as if it was the old club for the purposes of financial expediency, hence the conferring of titles and trophies, but they can’t hold the new club responsible for the sins of the old one. That’s why ‘there’s no appetite for raking over old coals’ following legal advice.
I wish Auldheid and the Res 12 team well in their endeavours and I’m mightily embarrassed to read that my club, along with the other 40, wants no part in obtaining justice in this matter.
Auldheid 26th October 2019 at 10:24
'…Why it's not in the long term interest of Celtic or indeed any club to be assured that the SFA are able or free to apply club licensing rules …….in a trustworthy manner will be interesting to hear.'
++++++++++++++++++++++
It will indeed.
And ,of course, if the Celtic plc Board in a misplaced, self-serving and shabby act of solidarity with those whose names and reputations might possibly be at risk,vote down the resolution, the road is clear for direct reference to Police Scotland/UK Fraud.
And the Board will go down in history as having abandoned principle for expediency every bit as contemptuously as did the SFA.
Auldheid, yes CFC owes it to the Res.12 guys, and to the fan base as a whole, to provide an explicitly clear explanation for their decision / inaction,
…and how this squares with Celtic values?
In the meantime, I'm patiently waiting for CFC to make public its own opinions on the Head of Referee Operations position, [after a respectful delay of course],
…and on the current plans to improve the standards and structure of the Scottish Referees Association, including VAR.
[I'm assuming that there are indeed TANGIBLE, current plans, following the "Referees Summit" last February – i.e. 8 months ago – and attended by senior clubs including CFC.]
Highlander 26th October 2019 at 12:30
'..where one club isn’t subject to the same disciplinary regime as every other club – it was ever thus you might say – and basically sticks its middle finger up in the air each time there are calls for reviews or inquiries into its conduct, because it knows full well that Rod McKenzie & co has given it watertight legal immunity via the five-way agreement.'
+++++++++++++
Given that the allegations of misconduct in the matter of UEFA licensing are made against
RFC of 1872 and the SFA Licensing Committee TRFC Ltd is not the accused, and legally has no locus in the matter; it is manifestly NOT RFC of 1872.
If any crime was committed, it was committed by the Board of RFC of 1872, if or when they lied about their tax situation, and by the Licensing Committee if they knowingly accepted that lie and colluded in the act of deception by granting a UEFA licence incorrectly to an unentitled club.
That is, the Board of TRFC Ltd had and has absolutely no right or title to block investigation of the alleged wrongdoings of a quite distinct legal entity, which is now in Liquidation.
Further, no purportedly legally binding agreement can be enforced if there is implied in it any agreement not to disclose or pass for investigation a crime allegedly committed by one of the signatories before the signing of the Agreement but which comes to light after that signing. All bets are off as far as sworn secrecy is concerned.
Quite simply, a serious allegation has been made against a club now in Liquidation. No agreement made with another quite legally different club takes away the right and duty of the SFA as a disciplinary body to have the business of that Liquidated club investigated, and to call for any and all papers of that liquidated club to be handed over by whoever holds them.
All the nonsense about 5-Agreement secrecy and the CAS was and is a big dirty red herring to try to prevent thorough investigation.
Permission from a seven year old club that was not in existence at the time of the alleged crime is not required.
And the SFA should know that, and act on that knowledge.
NOW.
There is this interesting 'Guidance from the Insolvency Service '
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reporting-misconduct-by-companies-directors-and-bankrupts-to-the-insolvency-service
"Reporting misconduct by companies, directors and bankrupts to the Insolvency Service
4.1 Companies in compulsory liquidationIf the company you want to complain about has gone into compulsory liquidation in England or Wales, contact the official receiver responsible for the case. They will review any information provided and decide whether to investigate further. If any evidence of misconduct is found they can apply for the disqualification of one or more of the company’s directors and/ or they may pass information obtained to another prosecuting or regulatory body that has more appropriate powers to deal with any concerns
If the company is in compulsory liquidation in Scotland contact the insolvency practitioner responsible for the case. "
I understand that Liquidation does not absolve the directors who were on the Board at the time of the 'Insolvency Event' from individually and severally being responsible for any illegal action or other shenanigans it may have been involved in prior to the Insolvency Event.
Anyone up for firing off a letter to BDO [ who, I would imagine, should have control of the papers of RFC (IL) and whose official attention may not have been drawn to the Res 12 matter?]
Auldheid 26th October 2019 at 10:24
21 1 Rate This
Now that a new Resolution has been added to this years Celtic AGM the public at large can see the Res in full and Celtic’s response.
This widens the discussion to non shareholders and supporters of all clubs and The Celtic Star at
https://twitter.com/CelticStarMag/status/1187998275229622277?s=19
were quick off the mark to capture both the new Res and Celtic’s reply and add comment.
Why it’s not in the long term interest of Celtic or indeed any club to be assured that the SFA are able or free to apply club licensing rules or by extension football disciplinary rules in a trustworthy manner will be interesting to hear.
………………..
A long time ago, i grew up in the shadow of Celtic park. I thought i was blessed, As a kid i remembered people came from far and wide to see Celtic play and i always thought how lucky i was to have this Great club on my doorstep, but many fans had a long journey ahead to see the Celtic play.And through the generations fans still travel that long journey. How many of these Great fans will now travel far and wide to see Celtic play? If the club does not do the right thing by the fans and the Res 12 guys,and Scottish football as a collective what hope for the future? Why make that long journey? Why make that journey at all. Why be part of that match day experience, when a shadow is there, not to be loved but to be avoided.
John Clark 26th October 2019 at 18:56
Anyone up for firing off a letter to BDO [ who, I would imagine, should have control of the papers of RFC (IL) and whose official attention may not have been drawn to the Res 12 matter?]
……………..
JC if i could write a letter half as good as you i would.
It is truly mystifying why Celtic do not want to progress Resolution 12 any further. It also hands the SFA an open door on closing out the disciplinary case with no further action. The whole thing smacks of several people in several organisations having something to hide. What else are we supposed to think in the absence of any other explanation?
Would Dermot Desmond be happy to see any of his other companies allegedly being cheated in this way? The very least the shareholders deserve is an expansion on why it is not in Celtic's best interests
Mibbees I'm just wilfully reading far too much into this, but this looks like a curious, 'off message' piece of reporting by the SMSM, IMO.
A typical sycophantic article today in the DR – talking up TRFC and how far they've come under Gerrard, how he's created a team for buttons, how they can now hold their own in Europe, etc.
But, in the week we expect to see the scary RIFC 2018/19 'Halloween Accounts', this article attributed to a Scott McDermott ends with;
"…
But make no mistake, Rangers are back on the map in Europe again.
And even after Gerrard’s time at the club is up – whenever that might be – they should be forever grateful to him for taking them there."
===================
Uth
Especially since they are saying,
“We don’t think it is in the best interests of the company to ensure that we don’t get cheated out of money and opportunity”.
Seems so counter intuitive to fiduciary responsibilities of directors and I’d be surprised if litigation isn’t being considered.
Big Pink 27th October 2019 at 18:15
It's been mentioned before BP , the the board might argue that having an entity playing in the top league based at Ibrox and playing in blue being spanked regularly would be commercially advantageous. They will argue that season ticket uplift and media rights/shirt sales etc have all significantly increased since the appearance of TRFC in the the top league. This of course ignores the fact that the signing of a top class manager had anything to do with subsequent success/sales. It also is awkward in that such profits have been generated by at least a tacit acknowledgement that TRFC is the same as it ever was. For me the real question is to the board..did any Celtic director or employee sign up to the 5 way agreement.If the answer is no then there is no impediment to the board pursuing res 12 to its end.
1 Did any Celtic plc employee/director agree to accept the 5 way agreement in full
2.If not ,when did Celtic plc become aware of the existence of said 5 way agreement
Big Pink 27th October 2019 at 18:15
Uth
Especially since they are saying,
“We don’t think it is in the best interests of the company to ensure that we don’t get cheated out of money and opportunity”.
Seems so counter intuitive to fiduciary responsibilities of directors and I’d be surprised if litigation isn’t being considered.
====================
It is truly baffling. What do they have to fear? However, given how long this has gone on, and with the SFA sitting on their hands for 18 months, you do have to wonder what murky depths have been reached over this matter, and what level of self protection is in place now?
UTH @ 19.23 and gunnerb @ 19.02
My only surprise is that you are surprised!! baffled UTH shirley no! Celtic could have sunk TRFC even more convincingly that they did us today but it was not in the corporate interest. How many £m a year did Lawwell say again?
Big Pink 27th October 2019 at 18:15
'..Seems so counter intuitive to fiduciary responsibilities of directors and I’d be surprised if litigation isn’t being considered.'
++++++++++++++++
That's a right googly to pitch, BP!
I've always assumed that Celtic had not themselves spotted the possibility that RFC of 1872 and the SFA licensing committee might allegedly have colluded in lying about the true state of RFC's tax position, and that it was the requisitioning of Res12 in 2013 that alerted them to the possibility.
Interesting scenarios open up to the imagination, at least one of which would demonstrate a masterly skill and readiness on the part of Celtic plc to get into the dirty stuff out of legal obligation as a PLC Board, rather than out of choice as a 'football club , a matter of law rather than of a mere 'sporting rivalry' attempt to do down a competitor at the bidding of the Requisitioners or Resolutioners.
We could have a lot of fun with that.
Personally, though, I think I would wish for the kind of direct , uncompromising approach that Fergus McCann of honoured memory might have adopted.
And I think it is important to stress that TRFC Ltd ,as a completely different football club from RFC of 1872 ,has nothing to lose or gain in the matter of the UEFA licence business. It does not affect them, what the Board of the Liquidated club may or may not have done.
The rotten SDM's/CW's rotten RFC is gone, and any monies it may wrongfully have obtained or been given have gone with them. It would not be for TRFC to make good any supposed loss that Celtic had suffered through any alleged cheating. ( Although of course if there were proved to have been any jiggery-pokery any of the then directors of RFC might find themselves in soapy bubble, whether on the board of TRFC now or not)
" The matter currently sits with the Scottish FA."-that sentence now , it may be, acquires overtones and subtle hints.
Or am I indulging in pure fancy?
On my recent visit to Pennsylvania, I came across the town of Wilkes-Barre.
When I asked my son about( as I pronounced it ) "wilks- bar" , he corrected me and said it was pronounced 'wilksbarry'.
I was intrigued, and looked up the origins of the name. Turns out it is the names of two English MP's who seem to have spoken up for the rights of the colonies prior to the revolutionary war.
5 minutes ago I looked up Barre , Isaac
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1754-1790/member/barreacute-isaac-1726-1802
and had a wee read.
I stopped reading when I came to this, from one of Barre's (there's an acute accent over the 'e', so it would be pronounced like Barray)
‘their appetites for dishonest lucre and foul gain were as insatiable as their consciences were easily satisfied’,
because it's in those kind of words that one would describe the whole sordid dirty crowd of folk in Scottish football and Scottish Football governance that we now have, from the cheating SDM through the MBMB to the miserable wretches who signed the 5-Way Agreement to the even more wretched SMSM propagandists for the Big Lie.
Barre told it like it was then, and we have to tell it like it is now.
Was there a post earlier today about the forgetfulness of people, including the military? Or was I dreaming?
I didn't know that Boris was a 'Rangers' hater.
And it was set up so nicely too.
Brexit was – absolutely, definitely, no joking or I'll die in a ditch – going to happen on October 31st, this Thursday.
So said Boris.
And who were we to doubt an MP's word…?
And Traynor had it all pre-arranged.
The scary, RIFC Halloween Accounts were to be released late on Thursday evening.
On Friday morning everybody and their dug would be totally engrossed with an EU-free UK.
The media wouldn't be interested in talking about mere footy financials.
…and now: the Brexit deadline is pushed back to January 31st!
Traynor will be red faced with anger, whilst simultaneously wetting himself!
The best strategy Level42 can come up with now is to use the tried and tested Friday late night statement release – with simply the worst ever RIFC accounts attached.
And then RIFC/TRFC will benefit from the full focus and financial analysis from the Internet Bampots,
…and even the wilfully ignorant SMSM will find the Ibrox financials difficult to ignore.
Popcorn at the ready.
[Caveat: unless the accounts are delayed.]
Am I alone in thinking that the lesser-spotted Compliance Officer may stagger into the daylight with a statement after the Celtic Board have dealt with/ dismissed Res 12 ?
paddy malarkey 28th October 2019 at 19:11
Am I alone in thinking that the lesser-spotted Compliance Officer may stagger into the daylight with a statement after the Celtic Board have dealt with/ dismissed Res 12 ?
=====================
Unless there is something going on that the Celtic Board are keeping to themselves, then in my view they have presented the SFA with an open door to close the case and say there is no point in going to CAS. They have also presented the media with an opportunity to ridicule those fans who have worked so hard on this case. Yet if the same media had the guts to actually do their job on this matter it is highly likely the case would have been dealt with a while back. However, history shows the media will label Celtic fans as paranoid rather than properly looking into whether they have a point.
John Clark 28th October 2019 at 16:10
Yes, there was.
No, you're not.
Don't know where/why it's gone.
upthehoops28th October 2019 at 19:58
Unless there is something going on that the Celtic Board are keeping to themselves, then in my view they have presented the SFA with an open door to close the case and say there is no point in going to CAS. They have also presented the media with an opportunity to ridicule those fans who have worked so hard on this case. Yet if the same media had the guts to actually do their job on this matter it is highly likely the case would have been dealt with a while back. However, history shows the media will label Celtic fans as paranoid rather than properly looking into whether they have a point.
=======================
If that is how the scenario plays out I wonder if the Res12 group will report their suspicions of a crime to the Police.
That would certainly open an even bigger can of worms than going to CAS.
StevieBC 28th October 2019 at 19:00
And Traynor had it all pre-arranged.
The scary, RIFC Halloween Accounts were to be released late on Thursday evening.
On Friday morning everybody and their dug would be totally engrossed with an EU-free UK.
The media wouldn’t be interested in talking about mere footy financials.
………………
Best keep it until Jan. That bill from Ashley and all that it will entail, who cares Boris has something to say;-)
https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/17998031.club-1872-seek-member-approval-500k-rangers-share-purchase/?ref=twtrec#comments-anchor
A question or two re the above, are these new shares or are they buying from an existing shareholder? Why now? If this goes through is that club 1872 tapped out? . Is this an act of desperation to meet the wage bill ? All I can make out is that 235k that was set aside for projects is being included .
Dundee United seems to be the latest club to have discovered a magic money tree.
Turnover £3.124m
Wages £4.159m
Wages to turnover ratio 133%
Loss for the year £3.7m
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50214653
From the Chris Jack copy/paste article in The ET tonight;
"…
An email to [Club 1872] members on Monday read:
“The Club 1872 board is pleased to inform members that we have the opportunity to purchase a further 2.5 million shares in RIFC, from the company, at a price of 20p per share – the same terms as the recent conversions of soft loans by other investors."
…
"This purchase will cost £500,000 with all funds going into Rangers.
Available funds from Club 1872 Shares CIC can be committed for this purpose by the Club 1872 board but in order to purchase the full share allocation, a poll of members is required for the use of funds from Club 1872 Projects CIC.
“Members are asked to vote below on whether they authorise £235,000 of funds from Club 1872 Projects CIC being used to purchase 1,175,000 shares in RIFC to be held by Club 1872 Projects CIC.
If the vote passes, this will mean that the combined Club 1872 shareholding will rise to 16,202,838 shares in RIFC representing 6.47% of the company. This will move Club 1872 from the 6th to the 4th largest shareholder in RIFC and increase our current percentage shareholding by 1%.
This poll will close on 2nd November 2019 at midnight.”
=======
This raises a few points, IMO.
1) The RIFC 2018/19 are unlikely to be released before 2nd November.
2) How the hell can any financially responsible person recommend buying ANY shares in RIFC?
3) How can any financially competent person recommend buying RIFC shares at 20p each?
4) Shirley, the prudent recommendation is to advise Club 1872 members to delay their voting until a date several days AFTER the 2018/19 accounts have actually been released – to allow members to make an informed, group investment decision?
@Stevie BC
Bernard Mathews is pleased to inform turkeys they have the opportunity to vote for Christmas , the sad thing is that they will . As you point out these shares are not worth anything close to 20p after the constant dilutions. Will be interesting to see if the accounts are delayed til after this goes through . It does however indicate that Directors loans may be a thing of the past if they are resorting to this to raise capital.
easyJambo 28th October 2019 at 21:57
1 0 Rate This
Dundee United seems to be the latest club to have discovered a magic money tree.
Turnover £3.124m
Wages £4.159m
Wages to turnover ratio 133%
Loss for the year £3.7m
……………….
Dundee United to put on free meals at Tannadice for those living alone at Christmas
…………..
Well done.
StevieBC28th October 2019 at 21:59
4) Shirley, the prudent recommendation is to advise Club 1872 members to delay their voting until a date several days AFTER the 2018/19 accounts have actually been released – to allow members to make an informed, group investment decision?
==========================
An excellent point .
But look on the bright side that's £735k they won't have to help set up Sevco 2.0 after Sevco Mark I goes bust.
Bogs Dollox 28th October 2019 at 21:24
'..If that is how the scenario plays out I wonder if the Res12 group will report their suspicions of a crime to the Police.'
+++++++++++++++
I cannot and do not speak for the Res 12 group, but I suspect they will.
Failing that, if they were to ensure that I was fully briefed and armed with something more than my own view of things, I would quite happily make an appointment for interview at ,and/or write to, the appropriate police office.
There is no question but that a reference to the police could not in the least be regarded by them as anything other than a serious reference, requiring to be taken seriously enough in the scale of things.
Indeed, I might expect to be chivvied for not having reported a possible crime as soon as I thought there were grounds for so doing.
Have no fear, Bogs Dollox: reference will be made to the police by me, if no one else will do so. The potential offence is so bloody utterly offensive that we need to know the truth.
And that requires a proper investigation by people who know how to investigate.
And, of course, the SFA can scarcely block a police investigation.
LUGOSI 28th October 2019 at 20:59
'John Clark 28th October 2019 at 16:10
Yes, there was.'
++++++++++++
Thank goodness for that confirmation! I had begun to think of drafting a comment in broad agreement, but when I went back in to the blog I couldn't find yours
But the point you made was, I think, made well, and humourously.
https://twitter.com/jackdmagi/status/1188929981554057216?s=21
A wee offering from US Soccer Guy. Apologies to any Dons fans looking in.
StevieBC 28th October 2019 at 21:59
………………..
This poll will close on 2nd November 2019 at midnight.”
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Why the short notice and time frame to get it done?
Seems to me that TRFC is desperate to raise half a million quid. So desperate they've had to make it public, at least to those sentient enough to realise that a sudden call to raise funds in the run up to the release of the annual accounts just can't be good news. So desperate they've not had time to make up an accompanying story to sweeten the appeal.
What could it be for?
Working capital? Settlement of some court case we've lost sight of? Transfer fee instalment? Legal fees from SDI case?
Whatever it is, it's better news for all us internet bampots, who always enjoy such speculation, than it is for the Club 1874 members, though it's questionable just how many of them might realise it.
Just a wee thought. Not only is there not a cunning little sugar coated story from TRFC, there's nothing in the email to justify the change of use of funds other than to take up an 'opportunity' to buy more shares at a clearly inflated price.
Another wee thought.
In the run up to our (Hearts) administration, the club made an appeal to supporters to buy shares to raise £1m to keep the club alive. The money was raised but the only difference I can see between this and TRFC's sudden appeal for cash is that Hearts made the purpose of the appeal clear.
And another wee thought. If TRFC are now at the stage where the begging bowl has to come out for half a million quid…
Of course, that half million may only be a part of the quantum required…to, say, allow the accountants to sign off the accounts! Which, on reflection, might be the 'least bad news' purpose of this amazing 'premium priced' share purchase opportunity.
Mibbees other Bampots who are clued up on current FSA / IFA regulations could clarify, but…
Does this RIFC cash grab not break some/several Code of Conduct rules around investment advice / behaviour?
etc.
As Club 1872 is a 'CIC', I guess [?] it is not an FSA regulated organisation?
[…and if it was, how could it do business with King?
]
On the face of it, the people running Club 1872 are sailing close to the wind with this investment advice / demand, IMO.
And if we ever needed any more evidence that the SMSM is unfit for purpose, and fully deserves its decline…
This Club 1872 story should be thoroughly questioned / reported – by any proper journalists.
Instead, all I've seen so far are very similar copy/paste articles – and written in a favourable, unquestioning manner.
An SMSM which is willing to be complicit in enabling its favoured football club to rip off its own supporters?
Someone on here mentioned having trouble getting info out of the FCA. Doubt anything will come of it, but worth sharing the response I just received:
Thank you for your complaint of 23 October 2019 regarding Rangers International Football Club plc (the Company). We have noted your concerns around the Company’s conduct in regard to the prospectus used for its admission to AIM in 2012.
This matter has been passed to the Market Integrity Unit in the Market Oversight Directorate (MO) of the FCA. MO is responsible, among other things, for monitoring issuers’ compliance with the FCA’s Prospectus Rules and Disclosure Guidance and Transparency Rules.
We are reviewing the issues that you have brought to our attention with a view to determining whether it is appropriate for us to exercise any of our statutory powers. As part of such reviews we may use the information gathering powers available to us to seek further information from the subjects of the enquiry and reach out to other agencies as appropriate.
Once we have completed our review, we will consider whether it is appropriate for the FCA to launch a formal investigation via its Enforcement Division, whether some other form of intervention is required or whether the case should be closed with no action. In particular, an important part of our consideration is the potential seriousness of the misconduct.
al62 29th October 2019 at 10:20
'..Someone on here mentioned having trouble getting info out of the FCA'
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Ha ha, al62! That someone was me!
You must have the magic touch to get such an early response! I've still not even received an acknowledgement of my two most recent emails!
Well done.
The Club 1872 Board could do with some lessons in basic arithmetic.
The proposal is to purchase 2.5m new shares, which will apparently increase their holding to 6.47% (from 5.48%). That's all very well if they were purchasing existing shares, but if they are new shares issued by the "company" (RIFC) then the total number of shares allotted will also increase by 2.5m which will dilute everybody's holdings by approximately 1%. Club 1872's holding will therefore be 6.41% should the purchase go ahead.
What we don't know is whether or not anyone else will be purchasing new shares at the same time. If there are other buyers/investors then again there will be further dilution of existing holdings.
John Clark 28th October 2019 at 22:56
Still doesn't explain where/why it's gone.
Does the site have a Comments Graveyard? If it does how do you visit it to pay your respects to the Fallen Comments? Is there a bugler playing the Last Post (which may or may not vanish shortly thereafter)?
On the other hand I like your "…the point you made was, I think, well made…". In the absence of the post and the point (whatever it was) nobody can disagree.
In the meantime if anyone finds a lost comment please return to sender.
Alternatively please doctor it; bravissimo, your most forensic yet, unsurpassed et cetera and claim it is Password Protected and comes in a limited edition. The edition is limited to as many as are willing to pay for it. Which, in effect, means it's unlimited.
Will be interesting to see if the accounts are released before the purchase of the 2.5m shares, which, if they're not, might indicate that the share issue/purchase is, indeed, necessary to give the auditors enough comfort to put their signature to the accounts. In the past it's been enough for the directors to promise to provide the necessary working capital, but maybe not now.
Just my wee thoughts, and complete speculation, of course, but it's hard not to link the timing of this rather rushed share sale to the potentially disastrous report and accounts. It's not as though there's a queue of potential buyers for these shares that might make it an act of kindness by the board of RIFC to offer CLUB1872 the shares quickly before someone else snaps them up. In fact, we can be pretty certain that those shares would still be available if Club 1872 waited until there was enough cash in the kitty to purchase them without using funds allocated for another purpose.
StevieBC 29th October 2019 at 09:38
On the face of it, the people running Club 1872 are sailing close to the wind with this investment advice / demand, IMO.
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Relax you worry too much.
I'm pretty sure the razor sharp legal mind of Jimbo Blair will have been all over every clause, sub clause, warranty, comma and full stop of the entire agreement and investment advice from top to bottom and back again!
Bogs Dollox 29th October 2019 at 12:28
'…I'm pretty sure the razor sharp legal mind of Jimbo Blair will have been all over every clause,
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If I were a Club 1872 donor I don't think I would take much comfort from that, and I would imagine that a certain English High Court judge would probably be with me.
I don't think an extra 500k will be enough to convince auditors to sign off accounts when in previous years it required King to guarantee to fund a shortfall of a few million, Club 1872 simply don't have the funding in place. I would also doubt that with his cold shoulder Kings' guarantees are now of any value so other Directors will need to come forward. This could simply be an exercise in emptying the biscuit tin while they still can in the hope they limp on until the January transfer window. This has all the hallmarks of panic and desperation about it , they are literally staring down the barrel of a gun , which is ironic really …………………
Timtim 29th October 2019 at 15:29
Agreed that the £500,000, of itself, would most unlikely be enough to satisfy the auditors, but it might just be the only shares issued that have had to be publicly announced, or is perhaps a necessary make-weight to the personal guarantees of future loans from the directors. Regardless, though, of the actual purpose, they need that money now, so desperately that they can't take half the quantum now and the rest once the Club 1872 coffers have enough in the required kitty to buy up the balance without the embarrassment (for the football club) of having to seek the members authority to abandon whatever project(s) the money was earmarked for.
It's the (apparent?) desperation that intrigues me most as it would suggest that all other avenues, that could have remained unannounced and so not indicative of desperation, have been tapped out.
Re. Above "holding statement" from (FCA?)
I'm sure this will be followed by;
Having checked into this issue, consulting with relevant authorities, (SFA, SPFL, RIFC, ASA, SMSM, ECA, UEFA, NOAL and the big guy who says "the big hoose must stay open"), we can assure you this is the same Gers as the auld Gers and the company was floated via an accurate prospectus. Nothing to see here….now move along
Or words to that effect!
Timtim29th October 2019 at 15:29
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There are three factors that will be troubling the Auditors:
Continued substantial losses
An established liability to SD believed to be around £8m
Future committments to pay transfer and loan fees
The Auditors would need to convince themselves that the company is a viable going concern for 12 months after the balance sheet date and will have to consider cashflow analysis.
If there are guarantees from Directors or others that they will provide funds to enable the company to continue trading none of the above issues would result in the accounts being qualified.
If given the guarantees will need to be verifiable by the Auditors and not accepted on a nod and a wink given the precarious state of the company and what might happen next.
That I believe is the difficulty. Hence the scramble for 1872 cash.
easyJambo 29th October 2019 at 10:44
Club 1872’s holding will therefore be 6.41% should the purchase go ahead.
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Not long now until they have that many shares they have to make a bid to buy the club. Err company. What! by that time they will be tapped out. Just how much do they have to spend to go backwards?
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What we don’t know is whether or not anyone else will be purchasing new shares at the same time. If there are other buyers/investors then again there will be further dilution of existing holdings.
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I think everyone else is tapped out and this is the only revenue stream they have, but how long before that dries up.
John Clark 29th October 2019 at 13:20
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Bogs Dollox 29th October 2019 at 12:28
‘…I’m pretty sure the razor sharp legal mind of Jimbo Blair will have been all over every clause,
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If I were a Club 1872 donor I don’t think I would take much comfort from that, and I would imagine that a certain English High Court judge would probably be with me.
……………………
Maybe he was just “untruthful” in the sports Direct row, and he is honest and truthful with club tropicana, but then again maybe not, maybe he strives to be a person”not to be trusted” or even a higher accolade of “A glib and shameless liar”
Off the top of my head, the RIFC accounts last year included a Going Concern Note stating that the funding shortfall expected for 2019/20, was estimated at £3M.
IMO, that could have been a 'best case' scenario – and it was certainly before factoring in;
– Big Mike's bill(s)
– an increased Close loan
– any increase to the cost base
– any net increase in player transfer fees.
Ball park: I would guess that the estimated £3M funding shortfall for the current financial year to June 2020 has now ballooned to a conservatively estimated c.£10M+.
Who in the Blue Room will be prepared to commit to funding this bottomless pit?
Perhaps more importantly: who will be able to provide proof of funds – and to the satisfaction of the Auditor?
@StevieBC 20.34
Would they accept the word of a BBC journalist that he has seen a verbal offer from a Chinese club that equals the shortfall in the accounts? The past few weeks has seen the MSM hype anything in blue to the moon and back , more evidence that the January window is a do or die matter now (if they last that long) .If only they had a Souness or a Walter to bail them out .
Surely they cannot expect people not do the decent thing for the good of the game, if a fraud/lies has/have been committed/made to gain an advantage to riches, then it's surely a no brainer.
https://twitter.com/TheClumpany/status/1188927799949713408
I was listening the other evening to 'Sportsound', and an interesting discussion between Jim Spence,Alan Preston and Kenny McIntyre developed, on the state of Dundee United's finances.
In a few minutes, Preston and McIntyre demonstrated that they are far from independent and objective in anything they have to say about RFC of 1872.
Spence mentioned 'the demise of Rangers'. Preston came back with an acknowledgment of the damage Craig Whyte had done, with nary a word about that disgusting tax cheat SDM.
And McIntyre swiftly moved the conversation on.
They simply will dare face up to the fact that it was SDM's hubristic reckless spending and tax-cheating that killed RFC of 1872. They are afraid for their jobs, or afraid of Murray and his apparently very long reach in Scottish society.
Difficult not to despise them.
Anent the Club 1872 plea to members, is it perhaps just simply that RIFC/TRFC are running out of cash? Funds from SA and other foreign parts take time to transfer and additional loans at the moment, if available, may not be on very good terms. Liquidity is almost always the problem for a company making losses.
John Clark 30th October 2019 at 09:12
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At times Sportsound might as well be recorded in a Rangers supporters club. I no longer listen.
upthehoops30th October 2019 at 10:06
John Clark 30th October 2019 at 09:12
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At times Sportsound might as well be recorded in a Rangers supporters club. I no longer listen.
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If you think that's bad spare a thought for the Superscoreboard listeners on Clyde 1. It's gone completely downhill ever since Big Deek Johnstone "retired".
@Giovanni 09.30
RIFC/TRFC are running out of cash, funds from foreign lands take no more time to transfer than funds from the UK , there may be costs involved especially Sth Africa but they are sent electronically not by pigeon. Additional loans will not be on good terms if as you point out are available at all. The fact club 1872 are buying shares isn't the issue after all that is part of their remit , the main red flag for me is why include the 235k that is set aside for other projects and why the unreasonably short time to make that decision and not wait til fans have seen the accounts. Why are the other Directors not stepping up with more loans? Is there now an issue with lending money to a company whose Chairman has a cold shoulder?
Assuming that RIFC will be releasing its 2018/19 Accounts to a similar timetable as last year…
and assuming that RIFC will not be DELAYING their release…
The accounts were first reported in the DR on October 31st last year.
The Chairman's Statement was dated as 17th October last year.
Ergo, the Accounts 'should' have been signed off a couple of weeks ago.
Which would suggest that this Club 1872 mugging is perhaps not related to the issuance of the Accounts.
But as others have mentioned: the rushed, desperate looking demand e-mailed to Club 1872 members should raise yet another huge, red flag…
Which is nice.